September 21, 2018 • 44 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottli. This is All Ball,
the All Basketball, all year long podcast, and man if
we had some good ones and I really appreciate you
downloading and subscribing and rating our pod. Make sure you
tell a friend, tweeted out, put it on social whatever
you want. That's good stuff. This week from Scott Brooks,
which is upcoming part two of our conversation. Part one
(00:30):
gave us his early upbringing, one of seven kids. Dad
walks out when he's really young and they kind of
had to fend for themselves. His mere curial path and
making it to UC Irvine after TCU as a freshman,
and then uh not making an NBA team in summer League,
but sticking around at loyala Merry Mountain, eventually getting invited
(00:50):
to seventy Sixers camp, going to the Albany Patroons, back
to the Sixers camp the next year, making the team,
getting a chance to start six games as a pro,
but winning an NBA title with Houston traded at halftime
to the Dallas Mavericks. And then this week we'll get
into his coaching journey, which is really an interesting one.
He coached in the A B A I played in
(01:10):
the A B A. We know each other very well.
We know a lot of the same people. But um,
his path becoming a head coach, What's it like to
take over a team that was uh that was a
disaster there one and twelve. I believe at the time
p J Carliston would lost the team. He had a
young Kevin Durant. They adda Russell Westbrook and at James
Harden and they go to the NBA Finals. I'm gonna
(01:34):
ask him about trading James Harden and um, his thoughts
at the time, his thoughts as of now. We'll get
what it was like to coach in those NBA Finals,
and what he's learned during his during his time away
after losing his job at the Thunder, and his thoughts
on this year's team with the Washington Wizards. Plus, I'm
(01:54):
gonna ask him about that John Wall photo when he
was practicing with Team USA and he looked puffy. Let's
just say puffy to say the least. Let me quick
quickly give you some thoughts on the story of the
day or the story of the week. Jimmy Butler wants
out of the Minnesota Timberwolves. You watched the Timberwls last year,
and I talked to some NBA people like, well, those
guys do not like each other. I don't think there's
(02:15):
ever just one factor and a guy wanting out. I
think it's one a lack of chemistry to um. I
think sometimes guys egos aren't in check. Maybe that's the
chemistry issue to it. Three, there's also the Jimmy Butler
is supposed to be the defender of all things TIBs
in that locker room, and it's not like everybody doesn't
(02:38):
know that. And I'm not sure he loves all things TIBs,
but TIBs does depend on him and believe in him.
That's why he brought him and all the rest of
the seemingly the two thousand eleven Bulls over to Minnesota.
And now he now he wants out. But I also
think the contract, the upcoming contract, the number of touches,
the points, I think all that affects him. Andrew Wiggins
is a better score, Arl Anthony town is a better
(03:01):
overall player, and Jimmy Butler's story is one of legend,
you know, homeless, becoming an incredible player at Marquette and
then lightly regarding the NBA Draft to being an NBA
All Star and a guy playing for Team USA. But
some of that, some of that that hunger, some of
(03:21):
that Maybe anger doesn't present itself well in the locker
room over eighty two games, and maybe there's a loss
of self, you know, the fact that he wants to
be with the Nets and with the Clippers and with
the Nick shows he he wants to be the man.
I remember his friends with Kyrie Irving, and I get
the idea, Hey, I want my own, my own team.
(03:42):
But Jimmy Butther is not good enough to have his
own team. He's just not. So if he's your third
best player, you can win a title. Your second best player,
you cannot. Your best player. You might or might probably
aren't a playoff team case in Point Chicago. So um,
I'm gonna be fascinating to see where he goes he does,
But there's a little buyer beware because Jimmy Butler thinks
(04:04):
of himself as a top ten player in the NBA,
and maybe toughness and versatility wise, he has some of that,
but at some point it's about talent, and I think
he falls a little bit short in that variety. And
so the idea of making him your go to guy
is an ill fated, ill fated path for some of
these teams. All right, let's get to our discussion with
(04:25):
Wizards head coach Scott Brooks. This is part two. If
you missed part one, downloaded as well as download the
J Billis conversation. There's something I heard you talk about
which I've tried to I've tried to share as a
broadcaster and I probably and I learned it as a player,
but I probably learned it maybe a bit too late.
(04:48):
There's a difference in the role of being a starting
point guard and a backup point guard. And you know
the Matthew Dellavedova's the Scott Brooks, the Darren Collison when
he was a backup with the Clippers, like and tell
me if I'm wrong, like you you Patrick Beverley, for example,
Like guys like man Patrick is like borderline dirty, Like
you have to be you gotta pick up, you have
(05:10):
to change the tempo of the game. Um, you've gotta
be able to get out of the way and make
an open shot, but also let the other guys play. Uh.
It's it's a very it's a it's a it's the
same position point guard, but a completely different role. You're
not trying to do the same thing the starter is
gonna do, only for a shorter period of time. And
I think it especially for a guy like you. And
this is where I think there's a disconnect for fans.
(05:31):
People that know you played in the MBA don't realize, Like, dude,
you're twenty four a game in in college, like at
a legit college. Drop in twenty four game and to hey,
I'm gonna score six a game, but I gotta make
every open shot. I gotta guard the other team's point
guard who's probably a combo guard and that he averaged
game in college and do it, you know, be better
(05:52):
against better competition and a much shorter period of time.
Like that's a really hard adjustment for players to make.
It's one of the reasons that some guys might have
more kind of upside and talent, but they can never
be the backup point guard in the NBA because they
can't change rules even though it's the same position. See
I mean you, you nailed it. It's such an important
(06:13):
position on a team because you really have to understand
everybody's role and you have to be a connector you've
got to be able to play with the starter. You
gotta be able to some nights. You've got to be
understand that you're not going to play a lot of
minutes and you're not gonna get a lot of opportunities
like to starting point guard. But you have to have
(06:34):
the mental toughness to be able to compete and do
whatever it takes for the coach um that asks them
you and be able to make shots. And you're not
gonna get a lot of them. And it's funny, I
even like change the routine. I knew, you know, most
of the most warm ups you always you know, you
start with like you know, four footers and go out
to six and they maybe free tools and then and
(06:54):
then initially get out to the three point line. But
what I did, every time I walked into the gym,
I started taking shots that I would take this first
shot of the game, and usually wasn't It always seems
you get the ball, you're wide open and from the
basket it's a wide open three. So what I even
did my pre practice worked up. I just started like
(07:15):
I worked on the court and I just started shooting
threes right away, and not a lot because you're not
gonna get a lot, and I was stopped and then
just work on my ball handling and then I would,
you know, do some push ups or sytups, and then
I would come back and just shoot a three like
and put pressure on me. I gotta make this shot.
And so I think it helped me mentally to not
(07:35):
be able to, you know, get a lot of shots,
would be able to make that first shot. You're an
assistant coach with the Thunder. It's your first season in
Oklahoma City, and I think it was twelve or thirteen
games in PJ gets fired. Um, did you know you
were going to be the guy when PJ got fired? No?
(07:58):
You know, I was with p the year before in
Seattle as an assistant. He was the head coach. And
that's the thing that people don't really put two and
two together even though they knew it, but they don't
really bring it up enough that the team was really bad.
Then well, I think we only won twenty two games
in Seattle. I love PJ. Great family, just a great
person to be around, fun guy, tough coach, I mean tough,
(08:21):
tough on his assistance, challenging, made you do a lot
of things and you. You wanted it at a high
level and very particular and everything you did. But so
we've moved to Oklahoma with with the move from Seattle,
and we didn't have the start that we would like
to have one in twelve. So they ended up firing
PJ and coach west Head and they hired me. I
(08:45):
didn't know that I would get the job. I knew,
you know, I knew maybe I would be the next
guy for a game or two, maybe until they bring
somebody in. And before the game, we just get we
just got our butts kicked by h New Orleans. They
had a great team that year at home. I mean
they I think we lost my thirty, but it could
(09:07):
have easily been sixty. So going to the air but
we play them back to back. Now we're going to
New Orleans. From traveling to the airport and I get
a phone call from Sam says, do not go on
the plane. I'm like, okay, this is a strange call.
And he says, I'm gonna call you back in two minutes.
So I'm at the airport in my car. I still
(09:29):
don't know what's going on. Back and says, hey, we're
just we just fired PJ. And then we're gonna put
you as an internem coach. Um. So I don't know how,
he said, basically said, I don't know how long it's
going to be, but just you know, lead the team.
You're going to New Orleans tonight. Lead the team. So
(09:50):
I get we get to New Orleans, I don't think
we land like it. By the time we get to
the hotels, like two thirty, we have a team meeting
in this little ballroom. What happened. Obviously, it's emotionally. I
have a lot of love for PG. It's not it's
not a great sailing, but it's also you gotta you
gotta do your job. You you gotta step up and
do your job. And it was not easy game to coach.
(10:14):
But you know, we end up losing that game. I
don't know how the close game. Middle of the fourth word.
I think to be this by ten or twelve. But
I started off with that team. We were one in twelve.
I think our first win I put. I decided, and
I was kicking myself because I wanted to do it
from the first night, is to put Russell Westbrook as
our starting point guards. I thought he was the best
(10:35):
point guard on the team, and so I waited like
I don't know how many games, six seven games in
and then I finally put him at the starting point
guard at Memphis and we ended up winning the first game.
Tells you about you know, his greatness that it was.
I saw it early on, we all saw it early on.
And I'm glad he's having such a good success because
he he went through a lot to get there. Who
(10:59):
are you we're starting before that? Earrol Watson? Or were
startings Watson? Good player? No good player? He was not
better than Russell Westbrook and but he was a really
good player, good starting player. Uh and had a great
career and a really you know, tough but he was.
I thought he was better our backup, right he's he's
(11:20):
actually again another guy who was just he was tougher
than a two dollar steak, right he was. He was
a perfect backup absolutely, um show players in the league
and had a great by being that type of player,
and you know what, he would get back into coach
and he deserves another chance. He had a tough, tough
running in sage. But you know it's always the second
time year round a lot of times your best time. So, um,
(11:43):
what was the cut. When did you know that you
were getting to keep that job? Um did not know
until late late in the season, I want to say,
the last couple of games, and I knew we were struggling.
We were three and twenty nine, so I you know
the I mean, I'm crazy at times, but I don't
think I was that crazy enough to think, oh, yeah,
(12:03):
you gotta keep this called keeps three and nine. Uh,
but yeah, I knew that. You know, it's gonna be tough.
It's gonna be tough for you know, Sam Presley to
to keep me. But I give you, I give our
players credit. Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Jeff Green led
us as first and second year players that I've never
(12:27):
seen it ever in my playing career or my coaching
career prior or after them, that they were able to
lead a group of players that had a horrible start,
and they were our leaders of our team, and they
inspired me every day. I would see them let m'clock
(12:48):
practice on the court at I'm like, oh my god,
don't these guys realize we're three and twenty nine. This
is this is not fun. But they made it fun.
They were so competitive you would have thought we were
twenty nine and three. The way we practiced it was
so competitive, so much, so much intensity and passion that
I said, you know what you can, Let's just keep
(13:11):
making these games fourth quarter games. And we did. Unfortunately,
had I had the worst luck. I thought it was
all me. I swore we lost six games on the
last second shots. I'm like, man, maybe this coaching thing
is not for me. I'm like the jinks of this
team and they're we're they're working their butts off and
they deserve to win. But these guys are making miraculous shots,
last second shots against us. But we made every game
a fourth quarter game. I said we were going to
(13:31):
turn it around, and we did. I think we were
like ended up being the last fifty games, like I
don't know, twenty and thirty. So at that point, I thought,
you know what, we turn it around, I might have
a camp, And ended up they gave me a chance
to coach the team and I had a great run there. Yeah,
and I remember when you we won fifty games. Next year,
I was at that Lakers series of Game six from Kobe.
(13:53):
I had, you know, I think you missed a turnround.
Palpata had to put back to beach you, but it
was it was pretty obvious. You guys are gonna be around,
uh for a while. Obviously, you know lebron Is and
and they had an incredible roster that beats you in
the finals. But if you could go yeah, go ahead, no, no,
if you could go back and change something about your team,
(14:16):
your approach in those finals, what would it be. You know,
we had we were one of the youngest teams ever
to get to the finals, and I thought, you know,
we win like twenty three games, twenty two games the
first year, and then we jump up to fifty play
(14:36):
the Lakers in the should have been a game seven,
and then we get you know, every year we get
a step further along, get to the conference finals, and
then next year we get to the NBA Finals. The
natural progression was, you know what, we're there, we stayed together,
(14:57):
we get to the finals game. So going back on
that finals, you know, the game one, we win, a
Game two, we just had a horrible start, just horrible.
I think we're down eighteen or something twenty points, but
we end up coming back, have a chance to tie
the game. Uh. Derek Fisher in bounds the ball. Durant
(15:17):
Kevin miss is a shop but he gets foul. They
don't call the foul. We have a chance to put
it back, we get foul, they don't call the foul.
The next day the NBA comes out said it was
a foul, should have been called, but neither there, neither here.
We would we would hopefully would have took it to
overtime and maybe win that game game too. So I
trying to change the dynamics. So now the format was
three to two three, and now we have three games Miami.
(15:41):
A lot of I get a lot of questions like
why do why did I play per so many minutes? Well,
I really didn't play him a lot of minutes. I
started him. Uh a matter of fact, I think the
most if I can remember correctly, I'm not totally sure.
So that checked me on this that he played the
most minutes on the game that we want game one.
I think he played like twenty six pints or so.
(16:02):
But the thing that I thought that he brought to
the team, he was a comfort, like almost like a
blanket for a lot of our players. They love perk.
Kevin Durant and Perkal love having Perk on the floor.
They played better with him, they felt more confident Perk
had their back. The guy was he was bad. I mean,
(16:24):
he was bad to the bone. He didn't Nobody mess
with Perk or our team. So but that would have
to make some adjustments, and we did. He We lowered
his minutes and decreased his mess as the series went on.
The bottom line is we played against a better team
in their prime. Those same players that you know, our
players were basically their three best players were in their
(16:47):
prime prime nine. It's like saying James, Russell and Katie
on the same team right now, it would not be
close and you probably wouldn't be talking about it is
the way we are if they were on the same
team now for the last you know, seven or eight,
ten years or so. But I have nothing but a
(17:07):
lot of pride for the for the run that we had.
My staff did an incredible job. Unfortunately we didn't have
the team coming back the next year, but we still
battled back. We ended up being having the best record
in the league. Russell Westbrook need the first playoff game
right before halftime and everything went down from there on out. Yeah, Um,
I mean I got it. We We've talked about this
(17:28):
in the radio show before and I um the James
Harden trade. I know some of it was about money
and about the luxury tax. Some of it, I do think,
and I'm not trying to defend a trade that I
think anybody would point to is not a great trade.
But in the context of that time, is it fair
to say people did not know what the cap would
(17:48):
look like after the new C B A. And I
think here's another part that I've often often wondered back then.
To get to the finals, you had to go through
the Lakers and the Spurs, and they both had two
big guys. And so even though Harden was a burgeoning
star and was really your fourth quarter point guard, right
you played him and Russ together, and and James hamidleball
a lot in the fourth quarter. They're all. They're all.
(18:10):
Was also a feeling like you had to have Ibaka,
maybe even more so than had had James Harden, if
you if you had to pick one or the other
because you had to have two bigs to beat the
Spurs and the Lakers. Is that is that at least
part of you. The thing is with James, you know what,
he made everything go, He made everything he we were
a very good team, a high level team. You know,
(18:33):
when we did not have him, but with James, we
were special. We were that was a that was a
for sure mar injuries, a championship team because he made
everything go. He was selfless, and he didn't he didn't
want to start. He wanted to play as a backup role.
But I was smart enough to realize that, you know what,
(18:53):
he's not gonna play back up minutes. He probably I
think he was like six or six in the league
and minutes for a two guard. So he was playing
started minutes. It just didn't start, and he made everything go.
He have. He should have been an All Star that year.
I think somebody got hurt. I think they Commissioner Stern
replaced him with I don't remember. I think it was
Jason Kidd, but at that year he was At that time,
(19:14):
he was averaging like eighteen points a game, and really
we were winning every game and he was a big
factor in fourth quarters. But he made everything work, and
I think that season he averaged seventeen and like five
assists and five rebounds. Nothing taken away from service was
a great player, shot blocker became became a really good
three points a shooter and eventually was going to be
(19:35):
a three point shooter. But at that point he was
averaging nine points and seven rebounds. So James was really good.
You know, he was six Man of the year, borderline
All Star. If not an All Start in the next year,
probably would have been for sure an All Star. Could
you could you could you have gone in and stood
on the desk. Could you've gone in and stood on
the desk and said, like, you know, don't do this. No,
(19:57):
I mean, that wasn't I mean, we we all had,
we all set our teams. That wasn't my job. My
job was the coach the players that I had, and
and and and Sam ran the team as he saw
fit and I respected that. And my job was the
coach to the the players he gave me, you know, fifteen
players the coach and developed and get getting to play
(20:18):
together as a team. And that I took pride in that.
We got a lot of We had a lot of
young guys, a lot of young guys, and they played hard,
which is not easy to do. And they played together.
And it's really not easy to do when you've got
young guys to play hard and play and well together.
But we're able to do that, and I'm I'm proud
of that. I'm proud of my staffs performance and getting
(20:39):
those those guys to play extremely hard, play together and
also represent our team in our city with a lot
of class and a lot of pride and and you
know what, we didn't win a championship, but they were
They were champions in my eyes. Um, you fast forward
to your last year there you talk about bad luck.
Not only does k D miss I think fifty one games, right,
(21:00):
everybody seemingly everybody gets hurt on your roster. But then
you end up, Um, New Orleans gets in the playoffs,
and the only reason they got in the playoffs was
they hit Anthony Davis hits a crazy three point shot
to beat you, and that was his only three of
the entire season, right, Like, how how crazy is it? Yeah?
(21:21):
How crazy is it that? Yes, only three of the
whole go back and look, only three of the entire
regular season. Was that three that beats you? I think
in Oklahoma City, like right around Christmas time or something,
And that ends up being the tiebreaker that that allowed
them to go to the playoffs. And if you go
to the playoffs, even as an EID seed, you guys.
(21:42):
I think kd was healthy at the end of the year,
and Russell is healthy at the end of the year, Like,
who know, you may still be coaching in Oklahoma City. Um,
you know we had we had a lot of tough luck.
The year before Russell, we end up in number one seed.
The team Russell gets hurt time out right before and
(22:05):
right before half. Patrick Beverley, Yes. And then the next
year everybody got hurt. Let's start the season. Kevin and
Russell were out the first you know, tw over fourteen games.
Surge missed a month, Steven Adams missed a month, Nick
Collinson missed a month. Everybody, everybody missed time. And I
remember one time we're having some fun with it because
(22:28):
everybody was hurt. It was almost become comical. I read,
I read, I read a pick and roll with Nick
Collinson handley the ball with Kendrick Perkins setting to pick
for him, and this is how this is how crazy
it got for us. But I give our guys credit
and they played, they played well, and we competed. That
was one of the I think that was like probably
one of the most fun years I've ever had coaching.
(22:50):
Coaching Oklahoma is that year. I mean, we had everybody hurt,
but we thought we were all going to come together
and become healthy and bart and I'll tell you what,
at that time, we had the Warrior's numbers and they
were kicking everybody's butt and they were worried. They thought
we were just resting guys to get them all healthy
at the same time to play them in the in
the first round. It would have been an epic series
(23:13):
US at the eighth seed and then at the number
one seed. But it did not work out that way,
and I got fired and my staff was fired, and
you know, we moved on and no, no hard feelings
really every least I mean everything, okay, because because I
mean okay, So there's two parts to this. The first
(23:36):
part is, yeah, the story you told before by getting
cut in in layup lines and you know, a halftime
of Houston, right, like, there's the you had the At
least now you have the perspective of, hey, I was
a non guaranteed, undrafted guy from the c B A
you know, from outside of Sacramento, and I made it.
I won a championship, right, But when you get when
(23:58):
you get fired for team that's all banged up and injured,
and you're this close and you take them to the
NBA finals from one in one in twelve or whatever
to being a dominant team in the West with two
superstars after a third superstar was traded away at that moment,
did you have the same perspective or or were you angry? No, No, Doug,
I was I was upset. I was disappointed. I was upset.
(24:20):
I thought we built up with enough equity and I
still had the locker room, I still had the respect
we were improving. Um, even as that tough season we
had were right there and making the playoffs in a
very very challenging weft and looking back, and I have
great relationships with our those players still today and we've
(24:42):
had some really candid conversations and and I'm more proud
of the fact that I handled my fire with respect,
but talking to them, and I know that I probably
deserved that. Maybe coach one more year and I would
have been and fine. Um, I would have actually told
(25:03):
the team, you know, after one more year, if we
didn't win a championship, that you know what, my time
as has been served and it was a great run.
It's time to move on. But no, we have all
of our injuries. And the thing that I I to
this day, you know, it bothers me a little bit
is that when you win a championship, or or in
(25:24):
order to win a championship, a lot of times, you've
got to go through a lot of tough times and
a lot of you have to have basically some scar
tissue on you. I felt that that team was ready.
It had enough heart heartache, UH to be able to
fight through what you need to go through to win
a championship. It's tough. You gotta not only go through
a grilling eighty two game season, ups and downs, the injuries,
(25:47):
the mental tear of the physical, charity body, but you've
got to go through four rounds and that's hard to
win one playoff game, let a little four out of
seven in twelve days, and you have to do it
two rounds, and then you got to do it the
third round, and then to win it all, you gotta
win the fourth round. But I felt that that team
(26:07):
was ready and it was hard for me not able
to coach that team. UM. When when when Kevin left,
what was your reaction? UM, you know, as a former player,
look at the game a lot of times through a
player's eyes, because I know it's it's very short. I've
(26:29):
been through a lot of I've seen a lot of players,
really good players get hurt and have a short career.
I've seen the players that really get hurt and get traded,
uh mostly hurt. And because they got traded, they give
them so much their organization. So as I look bad,
as I look through a player's eyes, I said, you
know what, they've earned that right to go wherever they
(26:51):
want to go. Um because of all the great players
that gave him that right, all the great players in
the plastic pass. It gave these players to be free agent. Son. No,
Kevin wanted to leave, and that was his choice. You
know how he did it, maybe he could have you know,
maybe he could have did it differently. I don't really
know how he did it and who we talked to
(27:12):
or who he did not talk to, But you know,
he he had a great run there. He gave that
city a lot of great memories. And you know, unfortunately
we weren't able to and I put myself in that
we were we failed to win a championship for that
for that organization, and Mr Bennett all gave us all
a lot of great opportunities and resources to do that.
(27:34):
So you go to Washington and you have these these
two young stars, and the perception is beling Wall don't
like playing with each other. That's that's a perception, right,
what's the reality of coaching those two Well, going into that,
I heard it, I read about it, and I was
well aware of it, and I wanted to make sure
that I was, you know, had my ears open or
(27:55):
and my eyes open and just understand that. I want
to be able to fill it. I wanted to say, want,
I want to cigure you want to figure out why.
But my first year I did not. I did not
see it, did not hear it, did not feel it.
So I never really had to worry about that. Now,
are they competitive sometimes against against each other and practice? Absolutely?
But I want that I I manufacture that. I put
(28:17):
them on different teams. I want the two best players
to compete against each other. That's how you game respect
for one another. To tell you game respect for your team.
And I want to see the other guys step up.
And you know what, they've been great teammates and you
know they've been through a lot of um playoff losses together.
And I feel like, you know, we're we're close, and
(28:38):
you know we've been close for a while. But going
into this season, it's not about it's not about talking,
it's about just doing it and and continue to two
young players too, young guards. That's a good start to have,
and we have that. And John wall is healthy, he's
been healthy all summer. And Brad great job in his training.
(28:59):
I saw them both last week and I'm looking forward
to starting the season. Okay, um, there's the picture of
John at the USA basketball workouts, and I mean it, look,
it was great internet fodder. It's the middle of the summer,
and he looked heavy. You saw him, you saw him
last week? Is he in fact heavy? You know what?
(29:20):
I saw him before. I saw him before he took
that picture about ten days before, and I saw him
about ten days after before. I thought he was in
great shape. While I SAT's like, I don't know, five
or six percent, he was like two to eighteen to twenty.
It was a bad picture. It was definitely a bad picture.
And and I tell him, John, you got just look.
It's like I call it the Hollywood kept look. He
(29:42):
has this wild hairstyle now and it's just like you
just woke up and it looks bad. But that's just
look he's like, lookie, he's less. But I'll tell you what.
He competes and that's what I love about. And he competes.
And I saw him last week. He's down to like
to eight to sixteen to eighteen, and he's in great
sh His knees are good. We're looking forward to having
(30:02):
another productive year from from him. You know, we we
wanted to make the playoffs last year. He misses forty
one games and I I'm not so sure I would
have I would have predicted that before the season. But
hopefully he can stay healthy and we can all stay
healthy and have a great year. How much different is
it without Lebron in the East? Big Difference talked to
(30:24):
a lot of the coaches that configure his that puzzle out.
A lot of great coaches lost, a lot of great teams.
Boston couldn't get by him a couple of years. Toronal
couldn't get by him a couple of years. Uh, everybody
couldn't get by him. He's I think Kevin Love said
it best. He's playing checkers and a lot of a
lot of the other guys are playing playing checkers. He
(30:49):
has this i Q that you don't see often. He
knows every team's plays. He knows Sometimes I will throw
out a play called just a random play call because
I know he can hear. And one time I don't know,
I yelled out like, uh, four horns, and he looked
at me, like four horns. You don't got four horns.
You don't got four horns. So it's true. The guy
(31:12):
knows everything and to be so great. And like I said,
only two players in the NBA history can be an
All Star on all five position, him and Magic Johnson.
If they want, they could have both been an All Star,
want to be a two guard. They both can be
an all start going down the line. And he's that
talented and a lot of coaches are happy that he's
no longer around in the um. Should we as a
(31:34):
guy who played in the Magic and Bird era, should
people put Magic and Bird in the conversation of Jordan
and Lebron or should they not? Absolutely, when they changed
the game, they changed the dynamics of the league. They
took it to another level. It wouldn't be where it
is if it wasn't from there. They both had team
winning spirits and competitive spirits that we all want our
(31:58):
teams and players to have. And I love both of
them as a kid growing up, and I was so
fortunate to be on the same court to compete against them.
But they know it's interesting some of the older players
don't get their respect because, uh, you know that sometimes
the my generation or even the younger millennials think that
(32:22):
basketball can start to you know, mid nineties, late nineties.
But and there's a lot of great players. For Jabar
not being mentioned as the greatest player ever is to
be criminal as well. The guy played twenty years, made
the nineteen All Stars I think six times, the m
v P, six times, championships, and all the time leading score.
(32:43):
For him not to be mentioned, uh is crazy. In
my opinion. He had a shot that nobody could ever
stop or ever tried to ever duplicate. And but there's
so many great players. It's so unfair to say who's
better than who's the best player who's asked you kicked
in an NBA game? Say that again, who's the best
(33:06):
player who's asked you kicked in an NBA game? That
I did? Yeah? Like I got that that I got Huh.
I mean it's not you're gonna play against him now,
so you can now you can now you can tell
it's like, man, I got him. Oh my god, there's
you mean the other way around, that kicked mine. No,
I'm saying that you I was going to do the
(33:27):
opposite in the second, but at first, I first, I
wanted the first. I one of the guys who has
asked you kicked Well, I'll tell you what. There's one
game it was so we in the boot of the game. Uh,
we threw the ball out of bounce and we had
a chance to win the game. We're at Detroit and
I were playing. It was one of the few TMT
games at the time, and I happened to be having
(33:50):
my best game. I think I had like twenty against Isaiah.
I'm not saying I kicked his butt, but I had
a good game against him. Uh. But yeah, that was
That was one of my better games. But unfortunately we
didn't win the game. But and then you're gonna ask
me the next question. Yeah, I went to the he
kicked my butt all the time. That guy, that guy
(34:10):
is so good and he was and he did it
with a smile, and he would he would, I mean,
he was borderline dirty. And you knew he was, but
he did it with a smile. And he I mean,
that guy, I can't even imagine what he would do
in today's game, the way the game is played. That
you don't it's not you don't get chucked walking across
(34:32):
the court anymore. And everybody's going in three point line,
the middle's wide open. The guy with average a game, Yeah, no,
I mean, he he just he was. He was a killer.
He was he was a killer, only he did it
with basketballs instead of with knives or you know, with
with guns. That's that's that's uh exactly all right, let's
let's let's finish with this. So here's here's my version
(34:53):
of the story. Um is Los Cabreros. And you used
to have your crew, right. I think Bob Thornton was
on that crew, right, Um, I think I think Scotty
was on that crew. Um. I think Todd Murphy was
on that crew. I'm trying to think. I'm not sure
if Wayne Englestad would show up and play as well,
(35:14):
but it was all okay, Johnny Rodgers of course. Um,
and so you guys would play and we would kind
of fill out the younger, you know, and then there
was the Cherokee Parks of the world and kind of
the younger college age players in Orange County and then
or and then there was like high school kids and
so you know, kind of like you used to hang
around l m U. We would hang around Lose Cab.
(35:36):
There's two gyms and sometimes we play in the JV court.
Sometimes we get to play in your varsity court. So
all I remember was you lit me up and said
get the funk off of my court or something like that.
And I was like I was And all I remember
was I don't know what what did I do to
piss off Scotty Brooks? And then they were like, dude,
(35:56):
Scotty hates you, he hates you. I was like, I
don't know what. I don't even know what I did.
Just tell me what I did, Okay, So what was it?
My dad was. My dad came in and put me
in the game. I remember, I remember the story, and
I remember the games, and I remember. All I remember
is this, I said, this guy was basically seventh high
(36:17):
school players O sho. And this guy is strong. I mean,
this guy is strong and athletic and jump out of
the gym and could dim it as well. As anybody.
I'm like, I'm making sure that he didn't know that
I have any respect for him, And that's the truth.
I had a long respect that you played hard. No,
(36:40):
I thought it was that my dad got me. Young
guys compete like that. But you played hard and you're
you're a freak athlete, and nobody ever talks about that because, hey, guys,
you know, five eleven white guy can't jump. But no,
you were. You were pretty athletic, and you didn't get
a lot of credit for that. But I do remember
those times, and I didn't want to give you an
(37:01):
edge at all. I think you're being nice. I think
I think the story was though that early on my
dad would say like, hey, he's got to get in
a game. Like he would like he would sit there
and like make me get in the game and would
just piss You're like, this is my game, that we're
NBA players, Get off my court, get out and get
out of my rewind rewind And I know, I definitely
know part of the reason I remember your dad, God
(37:23):
bless him. The guy loves his kids and love basketball
like like I do, and like I wanna like I
want to do the same. But he would put you
into the games. And this was you were you just
graduated from high school. Where'd you go, like Tustin? Yeah, yeah,
so you just graduated from high school. And he would
(37:45):
put you on the court against like and at that
time we had any given day, we had nine NBA
players in and I'm like, no, no, no, no, man,
we can't play play play him on the court. It's no,
it's no fun. You know, at that time, you weren't
good enough to court. But not only will your dad
put you on the court, he would take me out
in the game and put you in my place. I said, no,
(38:08):
that's not happening. But that's how that's how, that's how
you got better, think about it. That's how you got
better by playing against really really good players. Um, alright, alright,
last thing. Um. Obviously your mom was an amazing lady,
amazing lady. And we started we started we started by
by is um, is that what what drives you? I mean,
(38:29):
because like, look, you do get to a point and
you're not old. You do get to a point to
which you're like, look you can keep doing this, Washington,
there can be another team, Like what is that the
internal motivation for you? To keep pushing, pressing forward. You've
talked about how it's your upbringing, But what what dry
once you've made it? Once you've you made in the NBA,
you made it as a head coach, you made it
to the NBA Finals, you made it to get a
(38:51):
job in d C with great players. What drives you
to keep achieving? Uh? Well, obviously, my mom and Snail
that into me, just as your your family, and now
that I have a wife and two kids, they drive me.
They drive me. I love what I do. I'm passionate
what I do. I care about what I do. I
(39:11):
get nervous still to this day before practice, before games
because I want to win every practice. I want to
win every game, and I care about it. It's good
to have those butterflies in your stomach. But I tell you,
people always asking how do you handle all the you know,
all the criticism and the social media and just the
the internet just bowls up. I said, I don't really,
I don't care about any of that. I can get
(39:32):
criticized all all I want. That's just part of the territory.
You win a game, you're a great coach. You lose
the game, Um, you're a bad coach. Actually, when you
win a game you've got great players, you lose the game,
the coach think. So I get that mentality. But really
what drives me as my kids and my wife. If
I disappoint them and they criticize me, that's when I said,
(39:53):
you know what, I gotta step back and you know,
check myself and make sure that I'm doing things right.
But they don't assize me. I'm in good shape, and
I don't. I don't care about the other thing. That's
just part of the part of the business. But that's
what drives me. I love what I do God, and
I care about what I do. And I think I
have a great opportunity and a great team to coach.
And I'm really excited about this coming year. All right,
(40:15):
I I I lied, I have one more. Um, how
do you and this this is a question I really want.
So I grew up you know my dad that he
got fired longby State in eighty four, and I you know,
we didn't grow up with with much. But we didn't
grow up you know, I didn't grow up with one parents,
seven you know, seven kids in at a house picking
walnuts and and and onions. How do you how do
(40:36):
you get your kids to be as hungry. I asked
NBA guys this all the time. How do you get
your kids to be as hungry as you were? Even
though you know yours have grown up in for the
most part, in another Oklahoma city when you're an NBA
coach or in southern California, Like, how do you instill
the same hunger and yet you give them all of
the different support that we didn't have them we were kids.
(40:58):
You know, that's the that's the question that we all
ask ourselves. And a lot of players have kids, and
that's funny. You said that Brad Bradley Bille just had
a little baby boy, and I told him the same thing, Brad,
how are you gonna do it? How are you gonna
be on a conduct? Uh? Your son's upbringing it's gonna
be probably different than yours. And we've talked about that.
(41:18):
You know what, I what I did. I knew I
wanted my kids to be good people and the tree
everybody with respect like everybody does. But I needed them
to be the having burden, desire to compete, and I
felt that, you know what, the chance of them to
be athletic uh, and then is probably not very high.
(41:39):
I'm not I'm not gonna say they can't do it
at a young age, but I'm saying, you know what,
if they do great, I'm gonna encourage it. I'm gonna
empower them and making sure that they had the best
um chances to succeed. But I definitely wanted them to
have the burden desire to be educated. That's something I
grew up and we didn't know about all the things
(41:59):
that you can do with your brain, with your mind,
all the education, all the great things that that UM
gives you. And but I that's what my wife and
I decided to do. And you know, my son goes
the USC, My daughters a senior in high school and
then she has a great opportunity. She's probably the smartest
part of all of us. But I'm proud of that. Uh,
(42:21):
And I think that's what I'm challenging them to be.
Do great things off of athletics field, and you guys,
when they are and they're doing it, I'm proud of. Yeah. Well,
I'd like to point out that you obviously sold out
your wife's athletic jeans because you were a great athlete,
and saying your kids would not be athletes only proves
that you're like listen, yes, yes, that that's that's that's
(42:45):
a great way to wrap. Hey man, listen, you've been
awesome with your time. I can't wait to catch up
with you during the season. Thanks so much. I'll see
it yoga not must stay and thanks for joining us.
All right, man, all right, douck so you man, all right,
that's it for All ball. Um. Look, basketball season clearly
heating up. Glad you enjoyed Scott Brooks and his fascinating
(43:08):
life in our discussion this week on the Thunder and
the Washington Wizards. We'll start to dig in next week
on this year's NBA is Jimmy Butler will be traded.
By the time the next All Ball drops, We'll have
to pay attention to that how that reshapes the league.
I will have some previews for you and more outstanding guests.
(43:30):
Make sure you tell a friend, make sure you subscribe,
you download, and you rate the show. And oh yeah,
by the way, if you give us a listen to
Doug Gotlip shows daily on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports
Radio dot com, the I Heart Radio app three to
six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific. We also have daily
podcasts for that as well. Thanks for listening. I'm Doug
(43:50):
Gottlieb in This Is All Ball
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottli. This is All Ball,
the All Basketball, all year long podcast, and man if
we had some good ones and I really appreciate you
downloading and subscribing and rating our pod. Make sure you
tell a friend, tweeted out, put it on social whatever
you want. That's good stuff. This week from Scott Brooks,
which is upcoming part two of our conversation. Part one
(00:30):
gave us his early upbringing, one of seven kids. Dad
walks out when he's really young and they kind of
had to fend for themselves. His mere curial path and
making it to UC Irvine after TCU as a freshman,
and then uh not making an NBA team in summer League,
but sticking around at loyala Merry Mountain, eventually getting invited
(00:50):
to seventy Sixers camp, going to the Albany Patroons, back
to the Sixers camp the next year, making the team,
getting a chance to start six games as a pro,
but winning an NBA title with Houston traded at halftime
to the Dallas Mavericks. And then this week we'll get
into his coaching journey, which is really an interesting one.
He coached in the A B A I played in
(01:10):
the A B A. We know each other very well.
We know a lot of the same people. But um,
his path becoming a head coach, What's it like to
take over a team that was uh that was a
disaster there one and twelve. I believe at the time
p J Carliston would lost the team. He had a
young Kevin Durant. They adda Russell Westbrook and at James
Harden and they go to the NBA Finals. I'm gonna
(01:34):
ask him about trading James Harden and um, his thoughts
at the time, his thoughts as of now. We'll get
what it was like to coach in those NBA Finals,
and what he's learned during his during his time away
after losing his job at the Thunder, and his thoughts
on this year's team with the Washington Wizards. Plus, I'm
(01:54):
gonna ask him about that John Wall photo when he
was practicing with Team USA and he looked puffy. Let's
just say puffy to say the least. Let me quick
quickly give you some thoughts on the story of the
day or the story of the week. Jimmy Butler wants
out of the Minnesota Timberwolves. You watched the Timberwls last year,
and I talked to some NBA people like, well, those
guys do not like each other. I don't think there's
(02:15):
ever just one factor and a guy wanting out. I
think it's one a lack of chemistry to um. I
think sometimes guys egos aren't in check. Maybe that's the
chemistry issue to it. Three, there's also the Jimmy Butler
is supposed to be the defender of all things TIBs
in that locker room, and it's not like everybody doesn't
(02:38):
know that. And I'm not sure he loves all things TIBs,
but TIBs does depend on him and believe in him.
That's why he brought him and all the rest of
the seemingly the two thousand eleven Bulls over to Minnesota.
And now he now he wants out. But I also
think the contract, the upcoming contract, the number of touches,
the points, I think all that affects him. Andrew Wiggins
is a better score, Arl Anthony town is a better
(03:01):
overall player, and Jimmy Butler's story is one of legend,
you know, homeless, becoming an incredible player at Marquette and
then lightly regarding the NBA Draft to being an NBA
All Star and a guy playing for Team USA. But
some of that, some of that that hunger, some of
(03:21):
that Maybe anger doesn't present itself well in the locker
room over eighty two games, and maybe there's a loss
of self, you know, the fact that he wants to
be with the Nets and with the Clippers and with
the Nick shows he he wants to be the man.
I remember his friends with Kyrie Irving, and I get
the idea, Hey, I want my own, my own team.
(03:42):
But Jimmy Butther is not good enough to have his
own team. He's just not. So if he's your third
best player, you can win a title. Your second best player,
you cannot. Your best player. You might or might probably
aren't a playoff team case in Point Chicago. So um,
I'm gonna be fascinating to see where he goes he does,
But there's a little buyer beware because Jimmy Butler thinks
(04:04):
of himself as a top ten player in the NBA,
and maybe toughness and versatility wise, he has some of that,
but at some point it's about talent, and I think
he falls a little bit short in that variety. And
so the idea of making him your go to guy
is an ill fated, ill fated path for some of
these teams. All right, let's get to our discussion with
(04:25):
Wizards head coach Scott Brooks. This is part two. If
you missed part one, downloaded as well as download the
J Billis conversation. There's something I heard you talk about
which I've tried to I've tried to share as a
broadcaster and I probably and I learned it as a player,
but I probably learned it maybe a bit too late.
(04:48):
There's a difference in the role of being a starting
point guard and a backup point guard. And you know
the Matthew Dellavedova's the Scott Brooks, the Darren Collison when
he was a backup with the Clippers, like and tell
me if I'm wrong, like you you Patrick Beverley, for example,
Like guys like man Patrick is like borderline dirty, Like
you have to be you gotta pick up, you have
(05:10):
to change the tempo of the game. Um, you've gotta
be able to get out of the way and make
an open shot, but also let the other guys play. Uh.
It's it's a very it's a it's a it's the
same position point guard, but a completely different role. You're
not trying to do the same thing the starter is
gonna do, only for a shorter period of time. And
I think it especially for a guy like you. And
this is where I think there's a disconnect for fans.
(05:31):
People that know you played in the MBA don't realize, Like, dude,
you're twenty four a game in in college, like at
a legit college. Drop in twenty four game and to hey,
I'm gonna score six a game, but I gotta make
every open shot. I gotta guard the other team's point
guard who's probably a combo guard and that he averaged
game in college and do it, you know, be better
(05:52):
against better competition and a much shorter period of time.
Like that's a really hard adjustment for players to make.
It's one of the reasons that some guys might have
more kind of upside and talent, but they can never
be the backup point guard in the NBA because they
can't change rules even though it's the same position. See
I mean you, you nailed it. It's such an important
(06:13):
position on a team because you really have to understand
everybody's role and you have to be a connector you've
got to be able to play with the starter. You
gotta be able to some nights. You've got to be
understand that you're not going to play a lot of
minutes and you're not gonna get a lot of opportunities
like to starting point guard. But you have to have
(06:34):
the mental toughness to be able to compete and do
whatever it takes for the coach um that asks them
you and be able to make shots. And you're not
gonna get a lot of them. And it's funny, I
even like change the routine. I knew, you know, most
of the most warm ups you always you know, you
start with like you know, four footers and go out
to six and they maybe free tools and then and
(06:54):
then initially get out to the three point line. But
what I did, every time I walked into the gym,
I started taking shots that I would take this first
shot of the game, and usually wasn't It always seems
you get the ball, you're wide open and from the
basket it's a wide open three. So what I even
did my pre practice worked up. I just started like
(07:15):
I worked on the court and I just started shooting
threes right away, and not a lot because you're not
gonna get a lot, and I was stopped and then
just work on my ball handling and then I would,
you know, do some push ups or sytups, and then
I would come back and just shoot a three like
and put pressure on me. I gotta make this shot.
And so I think it helped me mentally to not
(07:35):
be able to, you know, get a lot of shots,
would be able to make that first shot. You're an
assistant coach with the Thunder. It's your first season in
Oklahoma City, and I think it was twelve or thirteen
games in PJ gets fired. Um, did you know you
were going to be the guy when PJ got fired? No?
(07:58):
You know, I was with p the year before in
Seattle as an assistant. He was the head coach. And
that's the thing that people don't really put two and
two together even though they knew it, but they don't
really bring it up enough that the team was really bad.
Then well, I think we only won twenty two games
in Seattle. I love PJ. Great family, just a great
person to be around, fun guy, tough coach, I mean tough,
(08:21):
tough on his assistance, challenging, made you do a lot
of things and you. You wanted it at a high
level and very particular and everything you did. But so
we've moved to Oklahoma with with the move from Seattle,
and we didn't have the start that we would like
to have one in twelve. So they ended up firing
PJ and coach west Head and they hired me. I
(08:45):
didn't know that I would get the job. I knew,
you know, I knew maybe I would be the next
guy for a game or two, maybe until they bring
somebody in. And before the game, we just get we
just got our butts kicked by h New Orleans. They
had a great team that year at home. I mean
they I think we lost my thirty, but it could
(09:07):
have easily been sixty. So going to the air but
we play them back to back. Now we're going to
New Orleans. From traveling to the airport and I get
a phone call from Sam says, do not go on
the plane. I'm like, okay, this is a strange call.
And he says, I'm gonna call you back in two minutes.
So I'm at the airport in my car. I still
(09:29):
don't know what's going on. Back and says, hey, we're
just we just fired PJ. And then we're gonna put
you as an internem coach. Um. So I don't know how,
he said, basically said, I don't know how long it's
going to be, but just you know, lead the team.
You're going to New Orleans tonight. Lead the team. So
(09:50):
I get we get to New Orleans, I don't think
we land like it. By the time we get to
the hotels, like two thirty, we have a team meeting
in this little ballroom. What happened. Obviously, it's emotionally. I
have a lot of love for PG. It's not it's
not a great sailing, but it's also you gotta you
gotta do your job. You you gotta step up and
do your job. And it was not easy game to coach.
(10:14):
But you know, we end up losing that game. I
don't know how the close game. Middle of the fourth word.
I think to be this by ten or twelve. But
I started off with that team. We were one in twelve.
I think our first win I put. I decided, and
I was kicking myself because I wanted to do it
from the first night, is to put Russell Westbrook as
our starting point guards. I thought he was the best
(10:35):
point guard on the team, and so I waited like
I don't know how many games, six seven games in
and then I finally put him at the starting point
guard at Memphis and we ended up winning the first game.
Tells you about you know, his greatness that it was.
I saw it early on, we all saw it early on.
And I'm glad he's having such a good success because
he he went through a lot to get there. Who
(10:59):
are you we're starting before that? Earrol Watson? Or were
startings Watson? Good player? No good player? He was not
better than Russell Westbrook and but he was a really
good player, good starting player. Uh and had a great
career and a really you know, tough but he was.
I thought he was better our backup, right he's he's
(11:20):
actually again another guy who was just he was tougher
than a two dollar steak, right he was. He was
a perfect backup absolutely, um show players in the league
and had a great by being that type of player,
and you know what, he would get back into coach
and he deserves another chance. He had a tough, tough
running in sage. But you know it's always the second
time year round a lot of times your best time. So, um,
(11:43):
what was the cut. When did you know that you
were getting to keep that job? Um did not know
until late late in the season, I want to say,
the last couple of games, and I knew we were struggling.
We were three and twenty nine, so I you know
the I mean, I'm crazy at times, but I don't
think I was that crazy enough to think, oh, yeah,
(12:03):
you gotta keep this called keeps three and nine. Uh,
but yeah, I knew that. You know, it's gonna be tough.
It's gonna be tough for you know, Sam Presley to
to keep me. But I give you, I give our
players credit. Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Jeff Green led
us as first and second year players that I've never
(12:27):
seen it ever in my playing career or my coaching
career prior or after them, that they were able to
lead a group of players that had a horrible start,
and they were our leaders of our team, and they
inspired me every day. I would see them let m'clock
(12:48):
practice on the court at I'm like, oh my god,
don't these guys realize we're three and twenty nine. This
is this is not fun. But they made it fun.
They were so competitive you would have thought we were
twenty nine and three. The way we practiced it was
so competitive, so much, so much intensity and passion that
I said, you know what you can, Let's just keep
(13:11):
making these games fourth quarter games. And we did. Unfortunately,
had I had the worst luck. I thought it was
all me. I swore we lost six games on the
last second shots. I'm like, man, maybe this coaching thing
is not for me. I'm like the jinks of this
team and they're we're they're working their butts off and
they deserve to win. But these guys are making miraculous shots,
last second shots against us. But we made every game
a fourth quarter game. I said we were going to
(13:31):
turn it around, and we did. I think we were
like ended up being the last fifty games, like I
don't know, twenty and thirty. So at that point, I thought,
you know what, we turn it around, I might have
a camp, And ended up they gave me a chance
to coach the team and I had a great run there. Yeah,
and I remember when you we won fifty games. Next year,
I was at that Lakers series of Game six from Kobe.
(13:53):
I had, you know, I think you missed a turnround.
Palpata had to put back to beach you, but it
was it was pretty obvious. You guys are gonna be around,
uh for a while. Obviously, you know lebron Is and
and they had an incredible roster that beats you in
the finals. But if you could go yeah, go ahead, no, no,
if you could go back and change something about your team,
(14:16):
your approach in those finals, what would it be. You know,
we had we were one of the youngest teams ever
to get to the finals, and I thought, you know,
we win like twenty three games, twenty two games the
first year, and then we jump up to fifty play
(14:36):
the Lakers in the should have been a game seven,
and then we get you know, every year we get
a step further along, get to the conference finals, and
then next year we get to the NBA Finals. The
natural progression was, you know what, we're there, we stayed together,
(14:57):
we get to the finals game. So going back on
that finals, you know, the game one, we win, a
Game two, we just had a horrible start, just horrible.
I think we're down eighteen or something twenty points, but
we end up coming back, have a chance to tie
the game. Uh. Derek Fisher in bounds the ball. Durant
(15:17):
Kevin miss is a shop but he gets foul. They
don't call the foul. We have a chance to put
it back, we get foul, they don't call the foul.
The next day the NBA comes out said it was
a foul, should have been called, but neither there, neither here.
We would we would hopefully would have took it to
overtime and maybe win that game game too. So I
trying to change the dynamics. So now the format was
three to two three, and now we have three games Miami.
(15:41):
A lot of I get a lot of questions like
why do why did I play per so many minutes? Well,
I really didn't play him a lot of minutes. I
started him. Uh a matter of fact, I think the
most if I can remember correctly, I'm not totally sure.
So that checked me on this that he played the
most minutes on the game that we want game one.
I think he played like twenty six pints or so.
(16:02):
But the thing that I thought that he brought to
the team, he was a comfort, like almost like a
blanket for a lot of our players. They love perk.
Kevin Durant and Perkal love having Perk on the floor.
They played better with him, they felt more confident Perk
had their back. The guy was he was bad. I mean,
(16:24):
he was bad to the bone. He didn't Nobody mess
with Perk or our team. So but that would have
to make some adjustments, and we did. He We lowered
his minutes and decreased his mess as the series went on.
The bottom line is we played against a better team
in their prime. Those same players that you know, our
players were basically their three best players were in their
(16:47):
prime prime nine. It's like saying James, Russell and Katie
on the same team right now, it would not be
close and you probably wouldn't be talking about it is
the way we are if they were on the same
team now for the last you know, seven or eight,
ten years or so. But I have nothing but a
(17:07):
lot of pride for the for the run that we had.
My staff did an incredible job. Unfortunately we didn't have
the team coming back the next year, but we still
battled back. We ended up being having the best record
in the league. Russell Westbrook need the first playoff game
right before halftime and everything went down from there on out. Yeah, Um,
I mean I got it. We We've talked about this
(17:28):
in the radio show before and I um the James
Harden trade. I know some of it was about money
and about the luxury tax. Some of it, I do think,
and I'm not trying to defend a trade that I
think anybody would point to is not a great trade.
But in the context of that time, is it fair
to say people did not know what the cap would
(17:48):
look like after the new C B A. And I
think here's another part that I've often often wondered back then.
To get to the finals, you had to go through
the Lakers and the Spurs, and they both had two
big guys. And so even though Harden was a burgeoning
star and was really your fourth quarter point guard, right
you played him and Russ together, and and James hamidleball
a lot in the fourth quarter. They're all. They're all.
(18:10):
Was also a feeling like you had to have Ibaka,
maybe even more so than had had James Harden, if
you if you had to pick one or the other
because you had to have two bigs to beat the
Spurs and the Lakers. Is that is that at least
part of you. The thing is with James, you know what,
he made everything go, He made everything he we were
a very good team, a high level team. You know,
(18:33):
when we did not have him, but with James, we
were special. We were that was a that was a
for sure mar injuries, a championship team because he made
everything go. He was selfless, and he didn't he didn't
want to start. He wanted to play as a backup role.
But I was smart enough to realize that, you know what,
(18:53):
he's not gonna play back up minutes. He probably I
think he was like six or six in the league
and minutes for a two guard. So he was playing
started minutes. It just didn't start, and he made everything go.
He have. He should have been an All Star that year.
I think somebody got hurt. I think they Commissioner Stern
replaced him with I don't remember. I think it was
Jason Kidd, but at that year he was At that time,
(19:14):
he was averaging like eighteen points a game, and really
we were winning every game and he was a big
factor in fourth quarters. But he made everything work, and
I think that season he averaged seventeen and like five
assists and five rebounds. Nothing taken away from service was
a great player, shot blocker became became a really good
three points a shooter and eventually was going to be
(19:35):
a three point shooter. But at that point he was
averaging nine points and seven rebounds. So James was really good.
You know, he was six Man of the year, borderline
All Star. If not an All Start in the next year,
probably would have been for sure an All Star. Could
you could you could you have gone in and stood
on the desk. Could you've gone in and stood on
the desk and said, like, you know, don't do this. No,
(19:57):
I mean, that wasn't I mean, we we all had,
we all set our teams. That wasn't my job. My
job was the coach the players that I had, and
and and and Sam ran the team as he saw
fit and I respected that. And my job was the
coach to the the players he gave me, you know, fifteen
players the coach and developed and get getting to play
(20:18):
together as a team. And that I took pride in that.
We got a lot of We had a lot of
young guys, a lot of young guys, and they played hard,
which is not easy to do. And they played together.
And it's really not easy to do when you've got
young guys to play hard and play and well together.
But we're able to do that, and I'm I'm proud
of that. I'm proud of my staffs performance and getting
(20:39):
those those guys to play extremely hard, play together and
also represent our team in our city with a lot
of class and a lot of pride and and you
know what, we didn't win a championship, but they were
They were champions in my eyes. Um, you fast forward
to your last year there you talk about bad luck.
Not only does k D miss I think fifty one games, right,
(21:00):
everybody seemingly everybody gets hurt on your roster. But then
you end up, Um, New Orleans gets in the playoffs,
and the only reason they got in the playoffs was
they hit Anthony Davis hits a crazy three point shot
to beat you, and that was his only three of
the entire season, right, Like, how how crazy is it? Yeah?
(21:21):
How crazy is it that? Yes, only three of the
whole go back and look, only three of the entire
regular season. Was that three that beats you? I think
in Oklahoma City, like right around Christmas time or something,
And that ends up being the tiebreaker that that allowed
them to go to the playoffs. And if you go
to the playoffs, even as an EID seed, you guys.
(21:42):
I think kd was healthy at the end of the year,
and Russell is healthy at the end of the year, Like,
who know, you may still be coaching in Oklahoma City. Um,
you know we had we had a lot of tough luck.
The year before Russell, we end up in number one seed.
The team Russell gets hurt time out right before and
(22:05):
right before half. Patrick Beverley, Yes. And then the next
year everybody got hurt. Let's start the season. Kevin and
Russell were out the first you know, tw over fourteen games.
Surge missed a month, Steven Adams missed a month, Nick
Collinson missed a month. Everybody, everybody missed time. And I
remember one time we're having some fun with it because
(22:28):
everybody was hurt. It was almost become comical. I read,
I read, I read a pick and roll with Nick
Collinson handley the ball with Kendrick Perkins setting to pick
for him, and this is how this is how crazy
it got for us. But I give our guys credit
and they played, they played well, and we competed. That
was one of the I think that was like probably
one of the most fun years I've ever had coaching.
(22:50):
Coaching Oklahoma is that year. I mean, we had everybody hurt,
but we thought we were all going to come together
and become healthy and bart and I'll tell you what,
at that time, we had the Warrior's numbers and they
were kicking everybody's butt and they were worried. They thought
we were just resting guys to get them all healthy
at the same time to play them in the in
the first round. It would have been an epic series
(23:13):
US at the eighth seed and then at the number
one seed. But it did not work out that way,
and I got fired and my staff was fired, and
you know, we moved on and no, no hard feelings
really every least I mean everything, okay, because because I
mean okay, So there's two parts to this. The first
(23:36):
part is, yeah, the story you told before by getting
cut in in layup lines and you know, a halftime
of Houston, right, like, there's the you had the At
least now you have the perspective of, hey, I was
a non guaranteed, undrafted guy from the c B A
you know, from outside of Sacramento, and I made it.
I won a championship, right, But when you get when
(23:58):
you get fired for team that's all banged up and injured,
and you're this close and you take them to the
NBA finals from one in one in twelve or whatever
to being a dominant team in the West with two
superstars after a third superstar was traded away at that moment,
did you have the same perspective or or were you angry? No, No, Doug,
I was I was upset. I was disappointed. I was upset.
(24:20):
I thought we built up with enough equity and I
still had the locker room, I still had the respect
we were improving. Um, even as that tough season we
had were right there and making the playoffs in a
very very challenging weft and looking back, and I have
great relationships with our those players still today and we've
(24:42):
had some really candid conversations and and I'm more proud
of the fact that I handled my fire with respect,
but talking to them, and I know that I probably
deserved that. Maybe coach one more year and I would
have been and fine. Um, I would have actually told
(25:03):
the team, you know, after one more year, if we
didn't win a championship, that you know what, my time
as has been served and it was a great run.
It's time to move on. But no, we have all
of our injuries. And the thing that I I to
this day, you know, it bothers me a little bit
is that when you win a championship, or or in
(25:24):
order to win a championship, a lot of times, you've
got to go through a lot of tough times and
a lot of you have to have basically some scar
tissue on you. I felt that that team was ready.
It had enough heart heartache, UH to be able to
fight through what you need to go through to win
a championship. It's tough. You gotta not only go through
a grilling eighty two game season, ups and downs, the injuries,
(25:47):
the mental tear of the physical, charity body, but you've
got to go through four rounds and that's hard to
win one playoff game, let a little four out of
seven in twelve days, and you have to do it
two rounds, and then you got to do it the
third round, and then to win it all, you gotta
win the fourth round. But I felt that that team
(26:07):
was ready and it was hard for me not able
to coach that team. UM. When when when Kevin left,
what was your reaction? UM, you know, as a former player,
look at the game a lot of times through a
player's eyes, because I know it's it's very short. I've
(26:29):
been through a lot of I've seen a lot of players,
really good players get hurt and have a short career.
I've seen the players that really get hurt and get traded,
uh mostly hurt. And because they got traded, they give
them so much their organization. So as I look bad,
as I look through a player's eyes, I said, you
know what, they've earned that right to go wherever they
(26:51):
want to go. Um because of all the great players
that gave him that right, all the great players in
the plastic pass. It gave these players to be free agent. Son. No,
Kevin wanted to leave, and that was his choice. You
know how he did it, maybe he could have you know,
maybe he could have did it differently. I don't really
know how he did it and who we talked to
(27:12):
or who he did not talk to, But you know,
he he had a great run there. He gave that
city a lot of great memories. And you know, unfortunately
we weren't able to and I put myself in that
we were we failed to win a championship for that
for that organization, and Mr Bennett all gave us all
a lot of great opportunities and resources to do that.
(27:34):
So you go to Washington and you have these these
two young stars, and the perception is beling Wall don't
like playing with each other. That's that's a perception, right,
what's the reality of coaching those two Well, going into that,
I heard it, I read about it, and I was
well aware of it, and I wanted to make sure
that I was, you know, had my ears open or
(27:55):
and my eyes open and just understand that. I want
to be able to fill it. I wanted to say, want,
I want to cigure you want to figure out why.
But my first year I did not. I did not
see it, did not hear it, did not feel it.
So I never really had to worry about that. Now,
are they competitive sometimes against against each other and practice? Absolutely?
But I want that I I manufacture that. I put
(28:17):
them on different teams. I want the two best players
to compete against each other. That's how you game respect
for one another. To tell you game respect for your team.
And I want to see the other guys step up.
And you know what, they've been great teammates and you
know they've been through a lot of um playoff losses together.
And I feel like, you know, we're we're close, and
(28:38):
you know we've been close for a while. But going
into this season, it's not about it's not about talking,
it's about just doing it and and continue to two
young players too, young guards. That's a good start to have,
and we have that. And John wall is healthy, he's
been healthy all summer. And Brad great job in his training.
(28:59):
I saw them both last week and I'm looking forward
to starting the season. Okay, um, there's the picture of
John at the USA basketball workouts, and I mean it, look,
it was great internet fodder. It's the middle of the summer,
and he looked heavy. You saw him, you saw him
last week? Is he in fact heavy? You know what?
(29:20):
I saw him before. I saw him before he took
that picture about ten days before, and I saw him
about ten days after before. I thought he was in
great shape. While I SAT's like, I don't know, five
or six percent, he was like two to eighteen to twenty.
It was a bad picture. It was definitely a bad picture.
And and I tell him, John, you got just look.
It's like I call it the Hollywood kept look. He
(29:42):
has this wild hairstyle now and it's just like you
just woke up and it looks bad. But that's just
look he's like, lookie, he's less. But I'll tell you what.
He competes and that's what I love about. And he competes.
And I saw him last week. He's down to like
to eight to sixteen to eighteen, and he's in great
sh His knees are good. We're looking forward to having
(30:02):
another productive year from from him. You know, we we
wanted to make the playoffs last year. He misses forty
one games and I I'm not so sure I would
have I would have predicted that before the season. But
hopefully he can stay healthy and we can all stay
healthy and have a great year. How much different is
it without Lebron in the East? Big Difference talked to
(30:24):
a lot of the coaches that configure his that puzzle out.
A lot of great coaches lost, a lot of great teams.
Boston couldn't get by him a couple of years. Toronal
couldn't get by him a couple of years. Uh, everybody
couldn't get by him. He's I think Kevin Love said
it best. He's playing checkers and a lot of a
lot of the other guys are playing playing checkers. He
(30:49):
has this i Q that you don't see often. He
knows every team's plays. He knows Sometimes I will throw
out a play called just a random play call because
I know he can hear. And one time I don't know,
I yelled out like, uh, four horns, and he looked
at me, like four horns. You don't got four horns.
You don't got four horns. So it's true. The guy
(31:12):
knows everything and to be so great. And like I said,
only two players in the NBA history can be an
All Star on all five position, him and Magic Johnson.
If they want, they could have both been an All Star,
want to be a two guard. They both can be
an all start going down the line. And he's that
talented and a lot of coaches are happy that he's
no longer around in the um. Should we as a
(31:34):
guy who played in the Magic and Bird era, should
people put Magic and Bird in the conversation of Jordan
and Lebron or should they not? Absolutely, when they changed
the game, they changed the dynamics of the league. They
took it to another level. It wouldn't be where it
is if it wasn't from there. They both had team
winning spirits and competitive spirits that we all want our
(31:58):
teams and players to have. And I love both of
them as a kid growing up, and I was so
fortunate to be on the same court to compete against them.
But they know it's interesting some of the older players
don't get their respect because, uh, you know that sometimes
the my generation or even the younger millennials think that
(32:22):
basketball can start to you know, mid nineties, late nineties.
But and there's a lot of great players. For Jabar
not being mentioned as the greatest player ever is to
be criminal as well. The guy played twenty years, made
the nineteen All Stars I think six times, the m
v P, six times, championships, and all the time leading score.
(32:43):
For him not to be mentioned, uh is crazy. In
my opinion. He had a shot that nobody could ever
stop or ever tried to ever duplicate. And but there's
so many great players. It's so unfair to say who's
better than who's the best player who's asked you kicked
in an NBA game? Say that again, who's the best
(33:06):
player who's asked you kicked in an NBA game? That
I did? Yeah? Like I got that that I got Huh.
I mean it's not you're gonna play against him now,
so you can now you can now you can tell
it's like, man, I got him. Oh my god, there's
you mean the other way around, that kicked mine. No,
I'm saying that you I was going to do the
(33:27):
opposite in the second, but at first, I first, I
wanted the first. I one of the guys who has
asked you kicked Well, I'll tell you what. There's one
game it was so we in the boot of the game. Uh,
we threw the ball out of bounce and we had
a chance to win the game. We're at Detroit and
I were playing. It was one of the few TMT
games at the time, and I happened to be having
(33:50):
my best game. I think I had like twenty against Isaiah.
I'm not saying I kicked his butt, but I had
a good game against him. Uh. But yeah, that was
That was one of my better games. But unfortunately we
didn't win the game. But and then you're gonna ask
me the next question. Yeah, I went to the he
kicked my butt all the time. That guy, that guy
(34:10):
is so good and he was and he did it
with a smile, and he would he would, I mean,
he was borderline dirty. And you knew he was, but
he did it with a smile. And he I mean,
that guy, I can't even imagine what he would do
in today's game, the way the game is played. That
you don't it's not you don't get chucked walking across
(34:32):
the court anymore. And everybody's going in three point line,
the middle's wide open. The guy with average a game, Yeah, no,
I mean, he he just he was. He was a killer.
He was he was a killer, only he did it
with basketballs instead of with knives or you know, with
with guns. That's that's that's uh exactly all right, let's
let's let's finish with this. So here's here's my version
(34:53):
of the story. Um is Los Cabreros. And you used
to have your crew, right. I think Bob Thornton was
on that crew, right, Um, I think I think Scotty
was on that crew. Um. I think Todd Murphy was
on that crew. I'm trying to think. I'm not sure
if Wayne Englestad would show up and play as well,
(35:14):
but it was all okay, Johnny Rodgers of course. Um,
and so you guys would play and we would kind
of fill out the younger, you know, and then there
was the Cherokee Parks of the world and kind of
the younger college age players in Orange County and then
or and then there was like high school kids and
so you know, kind of like you used to hang
around l m U. We would hang around Lose Cab.
(35:36):
There's two gyms and sometimes we play in the JV court.
Sometimes we get to play in your varsity court. So
all I remember was you lit me up and said
get the funk off of my court or something like that.
And I was like I was And all I remember
was I don't know what what did I do to
piss off Scotty Brooks? And then they were like, dude,
(35:56):
Scotty hates you, he hates you. I was like, I
don't know what. I don't even know what I did.
Just tell me what I did, Okay, So what was it?
My dad was. My dad came in and put me
in the game. I remember, I remember the story, and
I remember the games, and I remember. All I remember
is this, I said, this guy was basically seventh high
(36:17):
school players O sho. And this guy is strong. I mean,
this guy is strong and athletic and jump out of
the gym and could dim it as well. As anybody.
I'm like, I'm making sure that he didn't know that
I have any respect for him, And that's the truth.
I had a long respect that you played hard. No,
(36:40):
I thought it was that my dad got me. Young
guys compete like that. But you played hard and you're
you're a freak athlete, and nobody ever talks about that because, hey, guys,
you know, five eleven white guy can't jump. But no,
you were. You were pretty athletic, and you didn't get
a lot of credit for that. But I do remember
those times, and I didn't want to give you an
(37:01):
edge at all. I think you're being nice. I think
I think the story was though that early on my
dad would say like, hey, he's got to get in
a game. Like he would like he would sit there
and like make me get in the game and would
just piss You're like, this is my game, that we're
NBA players, Get off my court, get out and get
out of my rewind rewind And I know, I definitely
know part of the reason I remember your dad, God
(37:23):
bless him. The guy loves his kids and love basketball
like like I do, and like I wanna like I
want to do the same. But he would put you
into the games. And this was you were you just
graduated from high school. Where'd you go, like Tustin? Yeah, yeah,
so you just graduated from high school. And he would
(37:45):
put you on the court against like and at that
time we had any given day, we had nine NBA
players in and I'm like, no, no, no, no, man,
we can't play play play him on the court. It's no,
it's no fun. You know, at that time, you weren't
good enough to court. But not only will your dad
put you on the court, he would take me out
in the game and put you in my place. I said, no,
(38:08):
that's not happening. But that's how that's how, that's how
you got better, think about it. That's how you got
better by playing against really really good players. Um, alright, alright,
last thing. Um. Obviously your mom was an amazing lady,
amazing lady. And we started we started we started by
by is um, is that what what drives you? I mean,
(38:29):
because like, look, you do get to a point and
you're not old. You do get to a point to
which you're like, look you can keep doing this, Washington,
there can be another team, Like what is that the
internal motivation for you? To keep pushing, pressing forward. You've
talked about how it's your upbringing, But what what dry
once you've made it? Once you've you made in the NBA,
you made it as a head coach, you made it
to the NBA Finals, you made it to get a
(38:51):
job in d C with great players. What drives you
to keep achieving? Uh? Well, obviously, my mom and Snail
that into me, just as your your family, and now
that I have a wife and two kids, they drive me.
They drive me. I love what I do. I'm passionate
what I do. I care about what I do. I
(39:11):
get nervous still to this day before practice, before games
because I want to win every practice. I want to
win every game, and I care about it. It's good
to have those butterflies in your stomach. But I tell you,
people always asking how do you handle all the you know,
all the criticism and the social media and just the
the internet just bowls up. I said, I don't really,
I don't care about any of that. I can get
(39:32):
criticized all all I want. That's just part of the territory.
You win a game, you're a great coach. You lose
the game, Um, you're a bad coach. Actually, when you
win a game you've got great players, you lose the game,
the coach think. So I get that mentality. But really
what drives me as my kids and my wife. If
I disappoint them and they criticize me, that's when I said,
(39:53):
you know what, I gotta step back and you know,
check myself and make sure that I'm doing things right.
But they don't assize me. I'm in good shape, and
I don't. I don't care about the other thing. That's
just part of the part of the business. But that's
what drives me. I love what I do God, and
I care about what I do. And I think I
have a great opportunity and a great team to coach.
And I'm really excited about this coming year. All right,
(40:15):
I I I lied, I have one more. Um, how
do you and this this is a question I really want.
So I grew up you know my dad that he
got fired longby State in eighty four, and I you know,
we didn't grow up with with much. But we didn't
grow up you know, I didn't grow up with one parents,
seven you know, seven kids in at a house picking
walnuts and and and onions. How do you how do
(40:36):
you get your kids to be as hungry. I asked
NBA guys this all the time. How do you get
your kids to be as hungry as you were? Even
though you know yours have grown up in for the
most part, in another Oklahoma city when you're an NBA
coach or in southern California, Like, how do you instill
the same hunger and yet you give them all of
the different support that we didn't have them we were kids.
(40:58):
You know, that's the that's the question that we all
ask ourselves. And a lot of players have kids, and
that's funny. You said that Brad Bradley Bille just had
a little baby boy, and I told him the same thing, Brad,
how are you gonna do it? How are you gonna
be on a conduct? Uh? Your son's upbringing it's gonna
be probably different than yours. And we've talked about that.
(41:18):
You know what, I what I did. I knew I
wanted my kids to be good people and the tree
everybody with respect like everybody does. But I needed them
to be the having burden, desire to compete, and I
felt that, you know what, the chance of them to
be athletic uh, and then is probably not very high.
(41:39):
I'm not I'm not gonna say they can't do it
at a young age, but I'm saying, you know what,
if they do great, I'm gonna encourage it. I'm gonna
empower them and making sure that they had the best
um chances to succeed. But I definitely wanted them to
have the burden desire to be educated. That's something I
grew up and we didn't know about all the things
(41:59):
that you can do with your brain, with your mind,
all the education, all the great things that that UM
gives you. And but I that's what my wife and
I decided to do. And you know, my son goes
the USC, My daughters a senior in high school and
then she has a great opportunity. She's probably the smartest
part of all of us. But I'm proud of that. Uh,
(42:21):
And I think that's what I'm challenging them to be.
Do great things off of athletics field, and you guys,
when they are and they're doing it, I'm proud of. Yeah. Well,
I'd like to point out that you obviously sold out
your wife's athletic jeans because you were a great athlete,
and saying your kids would not be athletes only proves
that you're like listen, yes, yes, that that's that's that's
(42:45):
a great way to wrap. Hey man, listen, you've been
awesome with your time. I can't wait to catch up
with you during the season. Thanks so much. I'll see
it yoga not must stay and thanks for joining us.
All right, man, all right, douck so you man, all right,
that's it for All ball. Um. Look, basketball season clearly
heating up. Glad you enjoyed Scott Brooks and his fascinating
(43:08):
life in our discussion this week on the Thunder and
the Washington Wizards. We'll start to dig in next week
on this year's NBA is Jimmy Butler will be traded.
By the time the next All Ball drops, We'll have
to pay attention to that how that reshapes the league.
I will have some previews for you and more outstanding guests.
(43:30):
Make sure you tell a friend, make sure you subscribe,
you download, and you rate the show. And oh yeah,
by the way, if you give us a listen to
Doug Gotlip shows daily on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports
Radio dot com, the I Heart Radio app three to
six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific. We also have daily
podcasts for that as well. Thanks for listening. I'm Doug
(43:50):
Gottlieb in This Is All Ball
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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