December 13, 2019 • 37 mins
Doug talks about Lamar Jackson dominating performance against the Jets, locking up the MVP and why Jackson is becoming LeBron James of the NFL. He also tells you why Aaron Rodgers is officially entering the “Dad mode” part of his career. Plus, a lively debate with Doug Farrar of USA Today about Lamar Jackson if the Ravens offense is sustainable.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:44):
As predicted. The Ravens stopped all over the Jets as predicted.
There was some discussion of come to Jets and draft
in you know, hoping we didn't draft themore Jackson, and
then in Jean Um we have reached a point where
(01:05):
I believe Lamar Jackson is in the lebron zone, Like what, godly,
what are you talking about? He's the no, No, he's
Lamar James, not Lamar Jackson. By the way, Dan Buyer
(01:25):
with a great tweet. Did you see the video of
like six jets surrounding him want to switch jerseys with him? Right?
Did you see that? What the hell is Lamar Jackson
gonna do with six Jets jerseys from like unnamed jets here?
Like these are absolutely worthless, But let me sign the
(01:47):
most valuable piece of sports merchandise on earth right now? Right?
Oh my goodness, more on that to come. There are
zones in sports. Tip of the captor Bill Simmons. He
came up with the Tyson zone. You don't know Bill
(02:10):
Simmons work. The Tyson zone is where the stories about
Mike Tyson are so bizarre, so outlandish, so so wild,
the one there's so many that are true that there's
nothing someone could tell you about Mike Tyson there you
(02:32):
would go, Now, I don't buy it, right, Like I
had a tiger. He's told stories, he's had his one
man show, He's told other stories like wow, really true? Yeah,
So now, if Mike Tyson's came up to you and said,
one time my hair was on fire, I was riding
a goat, I had a spear in my hand, and
(02:57):
I answered the door and had the pizza man, put
the pizza on the spear. You would go like, yeah,
buy that, Like Tyson, that's the Tyson zone, right, Tyson zone.
In coaching, there's the Spurrier zone. Steve Spurrier at the
end of his career, he's out South Carolina. Well, you
(03:18):
should like to play George the first game of the the year.
They always had a couple of guys suspended. Like wait, okay,
that might be true, but can he say that? And
the answer is yes. You know why Spurrier zone. Steve
Spurry was so well respected. One of Haisman Trophy, won
a national championship University of Florida, trop Florida one duke,
(03:39):
and then hell got South Carolina to Atlanta. All right,
the HBC, that's headball coach. By the way, can we
please not make them classic mistake. We make mistakes in
sports broadcasting all the time. It's Navitsky, not Nowitzki, right,
(03:59):
Navitski not new wits Key. That's the proper pronunciation. Um,
it's Adrian Peterson's nickname is all Day. His initials are
a P. If you call him a D. That's actually
correct initials of his nickname all Day since he's a kid.
Because he had energy, they'd say he play all day.
(04:24):
And Steve Spurrier is not the old ball coach. On
all of his gear it says HBC's the headball coach.
So you have the Tyson zone where the stories are
so outlanded, so bizarre that are true. There's no story
about Tyson that you wouldn't believe. You have the Spurrier
zone where guy has been doing it so long and
(04:46):
so well they ain't get away. Well say whatever hell
he wants. And now you have the lebron zone. What's
lebron zone? Lamar Jackson um at, I've touchdown passes. Yesterday
the Jets put up somewhat of a fight. It's important
(05:09):
to mention that four of their best defensive players were
out and they're already not a good team. I know
they're good against the run. Technically they're good against the run.
You're like, well, Jets, but this is it's a it's
a different style than anyone else plays or has played
in the National Football League, with the type of weapon
(05:30):
that comes around very very rarely. But Lamar Jackson was
thrown the dudes that were wide open yesterday wide as open.
Because the Jets are a bad team, bad football team.
But that doesn't take away from how well the Ravens
are playing, how they continue to get a lead play
from a head which plays perfectly into their style. They're
(05:50):
going to get the number one seed in the f C,
which means they're going to get a week off, and
it's going to give whoever they play in their first
week less time to prepare for their unique style, which
gives them a stronger likelihood of getting to an n
f C championship game, which seems to be increasingly likely
to be played in Baltimore, our place to play. You
(06:11):
don't luck your way in the thirty nine touchdown passes.
By the way, Vegas is over under was fifteen this year.
To the people who say Gottlieb is a Lamar hater,
all I can tell you is we have taped in
August of me saying the best bet you're gonna make
in the NFL this year is Lamar Jackson is going
to throw for more than fifteen touchdown passes. Period stopped.
(06:38):
But we have gotten to the place of the lebron
zone where if you don't say that Lamar Jackson is
the m v P and he's revolutionizing the sport. Well,
then you're a hater and a racist. Who whoa man?
(07:04):
Oh what if I think Pat Mahomes is gonna have
a longer stay a top. Now you're a rightist, But
he's he's black. What if I like Russell Wilson or
Deshaun Watson. No, because Lamar Jackson got drafted late in
the draft because he's black and they wanted to make
(07:27):
him a wide receiver because he's black. No. Actually, the
truth is he was so bad in the bowl game
that he played for Louisville. Go back and watch the
tape that you're like, yikes, yikes. His mom was his agent,
which now seems endearing, But back then it was really troublesome,
(07:52):
right because normally the way it works is you have
a conversation with the guy to combine, then you set
up a workout. You call the agent, they set it up,
and they're there the next day. With Lamar Jackson, sometimes
you get ahold his mom, sometimes you couldn't. Sometimes you
call you back, sometimes you couldn't. Sometimes you get him
on a plane, sometimes you couldn't. It was a mess,
(08:14):
and he's not a take over the room, super verbal
type of guy who like he's growing and he's clearly
a leader of this team, but in a different way
then other players in the NFL, the other quarterbacks in
the NFL. Look, I'm telling you he's gonna win the
m v P. I'm not arguing with it, and I
think a very strong case can be made. I would
(08:36):
also point out that I don't know Aaron Rodgers having
a pretty damn good year. His team's lost three games,
Lamar's lost two. They may end up losing the same
number of games. And Green Bay played roughly similar, if
not more similar schedule, right, Like we can kind of
go back and forth through it. Now you can go
(08:57):
volume of touchdowns with runs and passes him whatever, Like okay,
and I'm not telling you didn't have an impact, but
like Aaron Rodgers is the most respected best guy in
the sport. Pat Mahomes got hurt somehow, that takes him
out of the running, but they keep winning. He keeps
throwing touchdown passes. Like I could gotta go through things
(09:18):
and try and make you think twice about the reality
of no one actually thinks he's the best quarterback in
the sport, but they're having the best season in the sport.
Which would make me think, Okay, I'm okay with him.
I'm not. I'm not gonna sit here and fight you
on the m v P because he's got thirty three
touchdowns and only six interceptions. But like, if you actually
(09:38):
take a deep dive, you know, he didn't play well
last week against Buffalo, Like we are aware, right, Like
they gotta lead and just hung on and he struggled
against Buffalo's defense because Buffalo's defense is really good. Is
that a fair Anhoun? So it's like he hasn't been
perfect every week. He feels like he's been close to perfect,
(10:01):
especially recently because he's gone up. They've gone on this
incredible windstreak which started against Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, and then
you know they beat Seattle on the road. Reminder, Seattle
on the road, he's nine of twenty. He ran and
scrambled his way to a win and the defense had
a big pick six. Keep in mind that throughout this
(10:22):
season there are wins over the Jets, the Dolphins, the Cardinals,
two over the Bengals. Those are among the worst teams
in football. And while it was raining, he did throw
for just a hundred and five yards and they needed
a missfield goal late to beat the Niners and in
perfect So I think he's I don't think I know
(10:46):
he's gonna win the m v P. I think Russell
Wilson is more valuable to his team because I think
the Ravens are a really good football team. The Ravens
have a very good defense, and yes, last night aside,
they're usually very good on special teams, last night were not.
But they've got a great kicker. I would tell you
that in terms of true value, this is the old
Lebron James about Steph Curry true value. Russell Wilson probably
(11:09):
does more for his team. I would say the same
for Aaron Rodgers. Like no one thinks the Packers are
all that good, but yet here they are top their division.
Why because they have Aaron freaking Rogers. But if you
want to tell me that Lamar Jackson's the m v P,
I'm okay. I'm totally cool with it. They're the best
team in the league. They're playing great football, and he
has cut down in his turnovers to where there they
(11:31):
seem to have disappeared. He's throwing the football better than
he has, They're setting the offense to him, they're getting
ahead early and they're dominating the league. But it's not
always an open and shut case that my friends in
the media are making, that social media is making. And
if you want to have an honest discussion about it,
(11:51):
you can. It's up for discussion. Do I think he's
revolutionizing the sport? Not really. I think Deshaun Watson did
this two year years ago before he heard his knee.
I think r G three did this back when he
was a rookie with the Washington Redskins, before he heard
his knee. But if you want to tell me that
this is order, that con Kaepernick did this with Greg
(12:14):
Roman's offense with a similarly talented defense, special teams, offensive
line when he was in San Francisco and they went
to the Super Bowl and lost by one plate to
the Ravens. By the way, we actually have seen this before.
It is not all that revolutionary. But if you want
to tell me that he's different, that he's special, that
he's more athletic, Okay, again, we can have this discussion.
(12:36):
But the idea that it is an open and shutcase,
he's the absolute unanimous m v P. I actually saw
Pro football talk. Okay, Pro football talk has got himed
Mike Florio. Okay, Mike, if you're listening out there, I
actually think you do a really good job. You know
this league really well. But I believe his tweet last
night was if you vote for anyone else in the
(12:58):
m v P race, you should to have your vote
taken away. Well, let me tell you that's a democracy
if I've ever heard it. That is the most American
statement I've ever heard. That, by the way, is part
and parcel to what's happened to left wing politics as
they've gone right. Used to be the party of everybody.
Now it's the party of everybody who agrees with us.
(13:21):
That's where sports has now started a mirror politics, and
it it becomes nauseating to me. I've said this about
Lebron James. He's a great player and all time great
and there are many people who believe he's the greatest
player to ever play, and you're allowed to have that opinion.
I disagree with the opinion. I think Michael Jordan's the
(13:43):
greatest player to ever play. I would tell you that
in a big game, I'd still rather have Larry Bird
then Lebron James, even though he's clearly had a better
career than Larry Bird. And then there's the question would
you take Magic ahead of him? Like where did you
do with Kareem and all these other guys, Like, look,
(14:04):
it's a really good fun discussion to have. That's what
sports is about. Debate and I like this guy. I
like that guy. You're wrong, here's why. That's okay. But
the idea that if you say Lebron James isn't the
best player on Earth, which I said for the last
three years, I was like, hey, you know, Kevin Durant
seven feet tall, he's got an unblockable jump shot, He's
(14:24):
won two NBA finals, m vps playing against Lebron James,
guarding Lebron James. Lebron James is guarding him. But if
I said that, I'm a Lebron James hater. That's the
that's the Lebron effect, the Lebron zone. We can't be
we somehow, if you're at all critical of Lebron James,
(14:47):
you're a hater. You're okay, Boomer all right? Or maybe
why is that disrespectful to Kevin Durant? Why is it?
Why is saying, hey, Lamar Jackson's having a great year,
(15:08):
mag Aaron Rodgers better, Drew Brees better. I don't think
he could do or has done, what some of these
other quarterbacks have done. Russell Wilson is amazing, an absolute magician.
How Jimmy Garoppolo was ridiculous last week. If I start
(15:28):
going through other guys that may have I believe we'll
have more longevity because of the history of the NFL.
Somehow hater and maybe even a racist because that's why
he wasn't drafted higher. Okay it If you think I'm lying,
I invite you to go to my Twitter handles at
Gottlieb Show. And because I said, hey, I think Lamar
(15:52):
is awesome, It's gonna win. The m v P. Would
take Sam Donald if I was drafting today because of
how he plays, who he is, and the likelihood of
a long successful career because mobile pocket quarterbacks last longer,
have more sustained success. I am not only idiot should
(16:12):
never talked about football because I played basketball, which is
always dub right because other radio hosts didn't play anything.
But because I played collegiate and professional basketball, I don't
know anything about football. But regardless, I'm an idiot, I'm
a hater, and I'm a racist. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
(16:35):
three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app. Doug far Our covers
the NFL for USA Today's Touchdown Wire. Check out his book,
The Genius of Desperation. He's got a piece about last night.
Last night, the Ravens go in and do what they've
done to so many teams to get ahead early and
uh and and the question was more not just would
(16:55):
he break Mike Vick's single season rushing record, but how
long would they leave the game right? Just as little
as as humanly possibly still racks up five touchdown passes
and no interceptions. Anyway, his piece last night, Lamar Jackson
makes more history as his doubters look even more ridiculous.
He joined us on the Doug Gotlip Show on Fox
Sports Radio. Who are the doubters? Oh gosh, well they
(17:21):
go back. There was Bill Polian who wanted him to
be a wide receiver. There was Rich Gannon on the
CBS broadcast. You said he through primarily from outside the pocket,
which isn't true. Um, you know, there there have been
a kind of a litany of people. A lot of
people are saying he's going to get hurt. He's going
to get hurt. Um when the stats for quarterback mobile
quarterbacks and Greg Roman's offenses I believe starts three missed games.
(17:47):
I just the reason I wrote to piece was not
to single any particular person out. But but you have
to when doing a piece like that, you can't just say, oh,
people are Lamar Jackson haters and blah blah blah. You
have to point to specific evidence. So I pointed to
four different things, including Tim Ryan, the forty Niners color
(18:08):
guy who got suspended for a game for talking about
Lamar Jackson's skin color looking like the football. Then Lamar
was out the next week with white sleeves in the
first half. And you know, Rush's for eleven times for
forty yards and throws three touchdown passes against one of
the five best defenses in the NFL. UM And from
my own perspective, I've been doing a lot of research
(18:28):
on the history of black quarterbacks over the last year
for something different, and I'm not you know, I I
bring up the black quarterback thing as an object in
the discussion because it is one. I'm not calling him
when a racist. I'm not bringing that to bear. Whether
it looks like it or not, it's not my intention.
But when you go back to the days of Willie
(18:50):
Thrower and Marlon Briscoe and James Harris and guys like that,
there are these sort of repeated things that happened to
black quarterbacks. They're they're marginalized. When you know, when Buffalo
was playing Baltimore and people are wondering, oh, what's Lamar
Jackson to do? Well, Josh Allen is being played like
Cam Newton was being played. I don't hear anyone questioning
(19:10):
whether he's going to get hurt and he was vomiting
footballs all over the place. Listen, I, Doug, I respectfully disagree.
And this has nothing to do with him being black.
It has nothing to do with him mean black. I
honestly think you're this You're you're bringing up a problem
that the NFL had thirty years ago. But people aren't
questioning whether or not Pat Mahomes will get hurt or
(19:31):
they did with Russell Wilson when he used to run
a bunch like we've most of the world has evolved
in and football has evolved into can you throw? Can
you not throw. He was terribly inaccurate during his time
at Louisville, even though remarkably successful. Okay, he was inaccurate
at times last year booed off his own home field
last year in the playoffs by his fans, and the
(19:55):
idea that he that you wouldn't get hurt, like I don't,
I don't r G three not hurt. Colin Kaepernick got hurt, right, Like,
one of the things that no one mentions is Colin
Kaepernick has sustained a litany of injuries within this exact
same offense. That's one of the things, as well as inaccuracy.
Um that that kind of brought him down even before
he started kneeling before the flag and he became a
(20:17):
symbol of something completely different. So I mean even Cam Newton, Okay, No,
it's not about Cam Newton being black or being white.
It's about the fact that Cam Newton ran the football
a bunch, was the NFL's m v P we And
if it's about accuracy, like Josh Allen's been inaccurate, he
got crushed before the NFL Draft because of it. Tim
Tebow lost his job because he couldn't throw a football,
(20:38):
not because he got hurt, you know, because you can't throw.
I I do agree there used to be a problem.
I honestly think people want to make this about him
being a black quarterback and want to make a social
statement about it, and I you're you're I would say,
you're denying the fact that there are other African American
quarterbacks Deshaun Watson who are don't receive an sort of
(21:00):
the same criticism because they don't play this sort of
way and are more accurate throwers traditionally traditionally. Yes, he's
become he's made design and offense, and he's improved, and
he's evolved, and and he's I would say he has
proved many of the doubters. Vegas had him in fifteen
touchdown passes before the year began. They didn't believe in him, right, So,
(21:20):
I but I don't think it comes down to race,
does it. I don't think it comes down to race.
I think that there is And whether this is subliminal
or not, I think there tends to be a higher
bar for black quarterbacks in general when it comes to you.
I couldn't disagree more. I just now, listen, listen, are
(21:42):
we are we critical of Baker? Mayfield for everything he
says and everything he does. Okay, why because he was
the number one pick? Right? Because he has nothing to
do with the white or black or whatever. He's a
former walk on who became the number one pick in
a Heisman Tromph winner. We're critical of him because he
runs him because he runs his mouth and as he
hasn't played that well, has nothing to do with all black.
(22:03):
The question about him in college was was he a
product of Lincoln Rally's offense and similar to you know,
his tween season was similar to this one for Lamar Jackson.
That I don't think anyone saw that coming. Um. You know,
I'm talking in ward with general sense, and we clearly
agree to disagree on that, and that's perfectly fine. That's
where I'm coming from. That it's not the primary thing.
(22:24):
It is a part of the discussion. I think it
is a is a huge part of While a lot
of people think that he was uh, they think somehow
he was done wrong by the draft. It should be
pointed out the Baltimore Ravens drafted a tight end in
the first round before they traded up to draft Lamar
(22:46):
Jackson in the first round. So this whole idea that
the holy that everybody else is wrong and only the
Ravens got it right, even the Ravens passed on him
the first chance they had at a franchise quarterback. Okay,
so here's the big question. Here's the big question. Is
it sustainable that it is? It's a fascinating question. Um.
From an injury perspective, I mean, his his closest camp
(23:08):
is obviously Michael Vick. And the only thing that stopped
Michael Vick's mid season career curve was five ft eight
days in jail. Um, he didn't miss a lot of
games due to injury. If you I mean and and
Greg Roman, I mean, this is the guy who took
Tyrod Taylor to the Pro Bowl. Oppressive enough. Um. In
Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman's last season in San Francisco,
(23:31):
halfway through the season, what they wanted to do was
change what Colin Kaepernick was. They wanted to make him
more of a pocket passer. It didn't work out as
well for Kaepernick because he wasn't He hadn't elevated his
ability to read defenses and do things that primarily pocket
passers due Um, and when you go back to Lamar Jackson.
(23:53):
I mean, yeah, he wasn't accurate in college, and there
was one primary functional mechanical reason for that is he
played aid from two narrow a bases. Feet were too
close together, and when that happens consistently, it's very hard
to repeatably be accurate on short you know, on intermediate
to deep throws. The Ravens have been very patient with
(24:15):
Jackson in Okay, these are the things you do well,
these are the things we need to work on. We're
gonna sort of merge those together, um as the Seahawks
were with Russell Wilson, as the Panthers were with Cam Newton. UM.
So they've worked out a lot of those things. And
yes there's some read option, Yes there's some art. There's
actually a ton of r p o UM. But a
(24:35):
lot of what Lamar is doing is from empty formations
with no running back in the backfield, and he's reading
his first to his second too at times his third
receiver UM, and he's making these decisions a lot of
times in the red zone where the defense is more compressed.
So my long winded answer to is it sustainable? Is
(24:56):
is this sustainable? Probably not, because you have the Mike Tyson.
Every one is a plan util they get punched in
the mouth and Robert Griffin, the throp is doing fine
and tell helloi not a landed on him like a zeppelin.
Um and and things change. So you don't know, he
could be Michael Vick and do this for a long time.
And when Michael Vick went to Philadelphia, Andy Redd Marty
(25:17):
Morton went talked aboutels like quarterback and then it was
a different thing. So the question is is this sustainable?
You know, he's at a Lamar Jackson isn't player right
now where a lot of his his injury risk is
minimized severely because when he runs to the edge, nobody
can catch him before he runs at a bounce. Now,
on the play that in which he broke Michael Vick's
(25:40):
single season rushing mark, he got I mean the linebacker
uh landed on his shoulder. And you know, the Ravens
do have some concern about that. And certainly as the
Ravens go more towards their first UH overall see first
number one overall seed in franchise history, you know, are
they going to arrest him more? Yeah, I mean there
(26:01):
becomes a balance to this. Um. So, is this kind
of game sustainable in the NFL. A guy starts to
lose a step and then all of a sudden those
free out of bounds runs are contested, and then you
have to think of something else. I think the Ravens
already getting ahead of that, and I think Lamar Jackson
under Great Roman's offense is more equipped to do that
(26:23):
over time than Colin Kaepernick was half a decade ago. Interesting.
I think the other question becomes, you know, if you
watch the reason traditionally uh in addition to questions about
accuracy and complexity, the reason tradition that option the option
game hasn't been run in the NFL is because the
way they defended in college. Everyone it's a simon football.
(26:46):
Everybody's got a guy. You hit the quarterback every time,
and at this to this point, no one, no one
hits him in the backfield. They don't. They They have
tried to take away mark Ingram, you know, they've tried
to corral him and keep him in the pocket when
he throws, but they haven't hit him at the mesh point.
And I guess I wonder if and when that happens,
(27:06):
well that cause him because I do remember Russell Wilson
early in his career running a lot of uh, a
lot of r p O s, And they were hitting
him at the mesh point. And sure enough they stopped
running a lot of it. And it was almost like
a gentleman's agreement, we won't hit him, you won't run
some of that option stuff. And I just wonder if
that's if that's the next step in defending Baltimore in
the playoffs, is all right, we're gonna start hitting him
(27:29):
every time he hands it off for fakes handling it
off possible. And traditionally, with quarterbacks who operated a lot
outside of the the pocket, and this includes Cam and this
includes Russell and included r G three, for a while,
officials are less inclined to blow unnecessary roughness, they're they're
less likely to throw unnecessary of the flags on quarterbacks
(27:50):
like that. And I and and that's not a black
or white thing. I would have include anyone from Josh
Allen to Sam Donald. By the way, Sam Donald has
more passes outside the pocket this you than Lamar Jackson does.
It's it's it's I mean, he's got a terrible offensive line. Yeah,
he runs around back there. I mean, like the the
the the passes. It's not the pass outside of the the
pocket on the issue, it's the volume of runs right,
(28:11):
And look there, I don't think teams are designed for
eleven on eleven football, and I think that the Braven's
and the point you're making, which is is something which
is really really smart, is the mistake the Niners made. Frankly,
the mistake the Redskins made is you try to put
a square peg into around a hole. You didn't just
ride it out. And the Ravens appear to be fully
(28:31):
committed to this style, even with r G three is
as the backup right where the getting the putt in
the three tight ends. You know, drafting to this style,
Hollywood Brown is not a volume guy, but as a rookie,
he can't complain about the number of catches and he
can just take the top off the defense. The whole
thing is brilliant and they seem fully committed to it.
Whereas in the past you'd start out with a quarterback,
(28:52):
you'd run some of the college stuff, but hope that
solely he evolves into a pro style quarterback. But this
is allowing Lamar to do what Lamar is always done,
and that's why he's so successful at a young age.
Fair well, yes, and you talked about the mesh point.
And this goes back to Romans days in San Francisco
where I remember talking to Brian Billick about this. The
(29:12):
week before UM A Blue Super Bowl forty seven was
Baltimore San Francisco Super Bowl. I was talking to Billick
about it and he was like, you know, there are
elements of everything from you know, power counter trap, old
school smash mouth to inside and outside zone too, you know,
log poles to everything. And they had a very diverse
run game, not like this where it's you know, Baltimore
(29:35):
and San Francisco have the two most schematically and formational
diverse run games in the NFL. UM so that's part
of it. Part of it is and they and Buffalo
did an interesting thing because there even a ton of
empty um just Lamar in the backfield, and that's it.
And one of the reasons they want to do that
is it creates a different kind of conflict for the
defense because usually when you run empty, oh we're gonna
(29:58):
run nickel or dime will go, quarters will go, cover
three will go, you know whatever. But with Lamar you
have to factor him as as then both the quarterback
and the running back, so you're kind of betwixt in between.
So they're doing a lot of different things to maximize
his particular physical and mental skills that you really couldn't
(30:21):
do with any other quarterback in the league. I mean,
you'd have to go back to Mike Vick and his
prime r G three was not this fast. Russell Wilson
was never this fast. Cam Newton is built more like
a linebacker. I mean he went looking for contact, which
is one of the reasons you're kind of in the
states in now. This is you know, what they've done
is incredibly intelligent because they understood that there were you know,
(30:46):
there were precedents to this, and certainly the rise of
the R P O game everywhere from high school to
the NFL in the last three or four years has
helped Lamar as it's helped very few other quote unquote
mobile or quote unquote option quarter backs. But it's it's
the different kinds of ways the Ravens attack you. It's
everything from fall house back fields, two empty back fields,
(31:09):
to you know, twins to you know, your three tight
ends in a in a bunch formation. There really isn't
any one thing they do. There isn't like a staple,
it's all it's all kinds of stuff. So you're not
just thinking, you're overthinking. And when you're overthinking, you can't
just react to the fastest player on the field. I mean,
(31:32):
I know, uh, leading up to the Jets game, somebody
asked Greg Williams, well, you're gonna spy Lamar, And I've
heard other defense recording to stay this and it's always
a laugh, like, yeah, we don't have anyone that fast. Yeah,
you can't buy them. That's out, that's out the window.
You don't have Eric Brooks by Michael Vick. That's not
going to happen anymore. So they've taken what Lamar does
(31:54):
and they've just blown it out through formation, diversity, and
the run game. And by the way, they also have
Marshal Yonda their guard as a future Hall of Famer.
In Ronnie Stanley and Orlando Around the other two probably
the best combination of pass blocking tackles in the NFL.
So it's just one of those circumstances where everything lines
(32:15):
up and as Lamar grows as a quarterback, it just
becomes that much more. It's it's really amazing watch Doug Ferrar.
Check out his new piece, Lamar Jackson makes History. Is
his doubters look even more ridiculous? As part as the
US Day part of USA Today's Touchdown Wire follow up
on Twitter's work in USA Today. Thanks so much for
joining us, Doug, I appreciate the dialog. Thank you all right.
Check out his book, The Genius of Desperation. Be sure
(32:37):
to catch the live edition of The Doug gott Leap
Show weekdays at three pm Easter Noon Pacific. Is Aaron
Rodgers having a good year? Is he having a great year?
Here's the raw data. He's eighth and touchdown passes farreon Rogers.
That's okay, little low. He's throwing the fewest number of
interceptions only two, fourteenth in passing yards per game, ninth
(32:59):
in passer rating, five teenth in QBR. His team is
in first place in the NFC North got a chance
that don't feel advantaged throughout. That's still a possibility. Is
he having a good year? Yeah? Is he having a
great year? Honestly? Yeah, if you take you this into account,
(33:20):
teams winning, he's healthy and he doesn't have to win
it by himself every game, and he doesn't have to
over extend himself early in the season. I m v
p s are cool, but he's got too regular season
records are awesome, but that doesn't establish your legacy, right,
(33:46):
what would cement him as one of the all time greats?
And I can make the case to Aaron Rodgers the
best quarterback to ever play the position. But until you
get that second super Bowl. First, you gotta get to one,
then you gotta win one, then you gotta win too.
After that, there's no fluke to it, no fluke to it.
He's one two m v ps. He's won a super Bowl,
(34:07):
he's got to win another one. So what he's doing
is dad mode? All right, dad mode? What do dads
do all of that? Do dads have nice clothes? Yeah?
Do they wear them all the time? No? Why Marty Mary,
my dad? I don't have to now. Look, Dad goes
out with his wife. Dad goes out to a Christmas party.
(34:30):
Dad goes out in Vegas with the boys, throwing a
nice suit. Look good. He has it in him. He
just doesn't have to impress anybody during the week. He
doesn't have to wear the Italian loafers on the day
of the basis, you can wear sneakers. Hell, you can
wear those those uh nurse looking Steph Curry shoes that
they had a couple of years ago, because you can
(34:51):
just go They're comfortable. Now, Look, dad mode doesn't mean
giving up. It's not like you go dad bod, you
stopped taking care of yourself and you show up to
formal events wearing sweatpants. No, no, no, no no, I'm
not saying you go that far. But dad mode is
evolved and smarter and understanding. You don't have to put
(35:12):
forth all of that effort every day of the week,
just what it matters. So he's letting his team learn evolved,
letting guys figure out the offense. He's using less energy,
not more, as he gets ready for the playoffs. Then
we get the playoffs. Now he's going all out. Right now,
(35:33):
he's going all out. Aaron Rodgers had to go all
out for much of his career because his team wasn't
any good. He thinks his team is pretty good. It's
got a chance to continue get better and all of
that will come to be and come to appear as
such when you get to the playoffs. You know, we
(35:54):
look at it now, like what's wrong with Aaron Rodgers.
Why is he throwing for seven touchdown passes and eight
touchdown pass like because he doesn't have to. They have
not and I have never seen a Super Bowl awarded
to a team that wins a game in November and December.
Right it's the It's like the adage in sports is
(36:14):
you can't win a game in the first half, and
you can lose the game in the first half. The
same is true in football. You can't win a Super
Bowl during the regular season, but you can sure as
hell lose one. And he's playing and not lose one
before he plays to win one. He's not turned over,
he's not putting himself in harm's way, and he's not
trying to force it and do everything and totally over
(36:36):
extend himself so he doesn't have anything left when the
games get really rough in January and maybe into February,
Aaron Rodgers is in what we will call dad mode.
You still got it, You still got the fastball, you
still got the cool, you still got the cologne. You
just don't wear cologne every day. You got the tight
fitting jeans. You just don't wear him to work. You
(37:00):
don't have to shave daily. You're not to bathe daily,
but on day night you look good, you feel good,
and you know you've still got it.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug got Leave Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Boom Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio coming
to you loud and clear. Loud and clear from beautiful
sunny southern California. The Doug Gottlieb Show is brought to
you by Discover Card. We treat you like you'd treat you.
(00:44):
As predicted. The Ravens stopped all over the Jets as predicted.
There was some discussion of come to Jets and draft
in you know, hoping we didn't draft themore Jackson, and
then in Jean Um we have reached a point where
(01:05):
I believe Lamar Jackson is in the lebron zone, Like what, godly,
what are you talking about? He's the no, No, he's
Lamar James, not Lamar Jackson. By the way, Dan Buyer
(01:25):
with a great tweet. Did you see the video of
like six jets surrounding him want to switch jerseys with him? Right?
Did you see that? What the hell is Lamar Jackson
gonna do with six Jets jerseys from like unnamed jets here?
Like these are absolutely worthless, But let me sign the
(01:47):
most valuable piece of sports merchandise on earth right now? Right?
Oh my goodness, more on that to come. There are
zones in sports. Tip of the captor Bill Simmons. He
came up with the Tyson zone. You don't know Bill
(02:10):
Simmons work. The Tyson zone is where the stories about
Mike Tyson are so bizarre, so outlandish, so so wild,
the one there's so many that are true that there's
nothing someone could tell you about Mike Tyson there you
(02:32):
would go, Now, I don't buy it, right, Like I
had a tiger. He's told stories, he's had his one
man show, He's told other stories like wow, really true? Yeah,
So now, if Mike Tyson's came up to you and said,
one time my hair was on fire, I was riding
a goat, I had a spear in my hand, and
(02:57):
I answered the door and had the pizza man, put
the pizza on the spear. You would go like, yeah,
buy that, Like Tyson, that's the Tyson zone, right, Tyson zone.
In coaching, there's the Spurrier zone. Steve Spurrier at the
end of his career, he's out South Carolina. Well, you
(03:18):
should like to play George the first game of the the year.
They always had a couple of guys suspended. Like wait, okay,
that might be true, but can he say that? And
the answer is yes. You know why Spurrier zone. Steve
Spurry was so well respected. One of Haisman Trophy, won
a national championship University of Florida, trop Florida one duke,
(03:39):
and then hell got South Carolina to Atlanta. All right,
the HBC, that's headball coach. By the way, can we
please not make them classic mistake. We make mistakes in
sports broadcasting all the time. It's Navitsky, not Nowitzki, right,
(03:59):
Navitski not new wits Key. That's the proper pronunciation. Um,
it's Adrian Peterson's nickname is all Day. His initials are
a P. If you call him a D. That's actually
correct initials of his nickname all Day since he's a kid.
Because he had energy, they'd say he play all day.
(04:24):
And Steve Spurrier is not the old ball coach. On
all of his gear it says HBC's the headball coach.
So you have the Tyson zone where the stories are
so outlanded, so bizarre that are true. There's no story
about Tyson that you wouldn't believe. You have the Spurrier
zone where guy has been doing it so long and
(04:46):
so well they ain't get away. Well say whatever hell
he wants. And now you have the lebron zone. What's
lebron zone? Lamar Jackson um at, I've touchdown passes. Yesterday
the Jets put up somewhat of a fight. It's important
(05:09):
to mention that four of their best defensive players were
out and they're already not a good team. I know
they're good against the run. Technically they're good against the run.
You're like, well, Jets, but this is it's a it's
a different style than anyone else plays or has played
in the National Football League, with the type of weapon
(05:30):
that comes around very very rarely. But Lamar Jackson was
thrown the dudes that were wide open yesterday wide as open.
Because the Jets are a bad team, bad football team.
But that doesn't take away from how well the Ravens
are playing, how they continue to get a lead play
from a head which plays perfectly into their style. They're
(05:50):
going to get the number one seed in the f C,
which means they're going to get a week off, and
it's going to give whoever they play in their first
week less time to prepare for their unique style, which
gives them a stronger likelihood of getting to an n
f C championship game, which seems to be increasingly likely
to be played in Baltimore, our place to play. You
(06:11):
don't luck your way in the thirty nine touchdown passes.
By the way, Vegas is over under was fifteen this year.
To the people who say Gottlieb is a Lamar hater,
all I can tell you is we have taped in
August of me saying the best bet you're gonna make
in the NFL this year is Lamar Jackson is going
to throw for more than fifteen touchdown passes. Period stopped.
(06:38):
But we have gotten to the place of the lebron
zone where if you don't say that Lamar Jackson is
the m v P and he's revolutionizing the sport. Well,
then you're a hater and a racist. Who whoa man?
(07:04):
Oh what if I think Pat Mahomes is gonna have
a longer stay a top. Now you're a rightist, But
he's he's black. What if I like Russell Wilson or
Deshaun Watson. No, because Lamar Jackson got drafted late in
the draft because he's black and they wanted to make
(07:27):
him a wide receiver because he's black. No. Actually, the
truth is he was so bad in the bowl game
that he played for Louisville. Go back and watch the
tape that you're like, yikes, yikes. His mom was his agent,
which now seems endearing, But back then it was really troublesome,
(07:52):
right because normally the way it works is you have
a conversation with the guy to combine, then you set
up a workout. You call the agent, they set it up,
and they're there the next day. With Lamar Jackson, sometimes
you get ahold his mom, sometimes you couldn't. Sometimes you
call you back, sometimes you couldn't. Sometimes you get him
on a plane, sometimes you couldn't. It was a mess,
(08:14):
and he's not a take over the room, super verbal
type of guy who like he's growing and he's clearly
a leader of this team, but in a different way
then other players in the NFL, the other quarterbacks in
the NFL. Look, I'm telling you he's gonna win the
m v P. I'm not arguing with it, and I
think a very strong case can be made. I would
(08:36):
also point out that I don't know Aaron Rodgers having
a pretty damn good year. His team's lost three games,
Lamar's lost two. They may end up losing the same
number of games. And Green Bay played roughly similar, if
not more similar schedule, right, Like we can kind of
go back and forth through it. Now you can go
(08:57):
volume of touchdowns with runs and passes him whatever, Like okay,
and I'm not telling you didn't have an impact, but
like Aaron Rodgers is the most respected best guy in
the sport. Pat Mahomes got hurt somehow, that takes him
out of the running, but they keep winning. He keeps
throwing touchdown passes. Like I could gotta go through things
(09:18):
and try and make you think twice about the reality
of no one actually thinks he's the best quarterback in
the sport, but they're having the best season in the sport.
Which would make me think, Okay, I'm okay with him.
I'm not. I'm not gonna sit here and fight you
on the m v P because he's got thirty three
touchdowns and only six interceptions. But like, if you actually
(09:38):
take a deep dive, you know, he didn't play well
last week against Buffalo, Like we are aware, right, Like
they gotta lead and just hung on and he struggled
against Buffalo's defense because Buffalo's defense is really good. Is
that a fair Anhoun? So it's like he hasn't been
perfect every week. He feels like he's been close to perfect,
(10:01):
especially recently because he's gone up. They've gone on this
incredible windstreak which started against Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, and then
you know they beat Seattle on the road. Reminder, Seattle
on the road, he's nine of twenty. He ran and
scrambled his way to a win and the defense had
a big pick six. Keep in mind that throughout this
(10:22):
season there are wins over the Jets, the Dolphins, the Cardinals,
two over the Bengals. Those are among the worst teams
in football. And while it was raining, he did throw
for just a hundred and five yards and they needed
a missfield goal late to beat the Niners and in
perfect So I think he's I don't think I know
(10:46):
he's gonna win the m v P. I think Russell
Wilson is more valuable to his team because I think
the Ravens are a really good football team. The Ravens
have a very good defense, and yes, last night aside,
they're usually very good on special teams, last night were not.
But they've got a great kicker. I would tell you
that in terms of true value, this is the old
Lebron James about Steph Curry true value. Russell Wilson probably
(11:09):
does more for his team. I would say the same
for Aaron Rodgers. Like no one thinks the Packers are
all that good, but yet here they are top their division.
Why because they have Aaron freaking Rogers. But if you
want to tell me that Lamar Jackson's the m v P,
I'm okay. I'm totally cool with it. They're the best
team in the league. They're playing great football, and he
has cut down in his turnovers to where there they
(11:31):
seem to have disappeared. He's throwing the football better than
he has, They're setting the offense to him, they're getting
ahead early and they're dominating the league. But it's not
always an open and shut case that my friends in
the media are making, that social media is making. And
if you want to have an honest discussion about it,
(11:51):
you can. It's up for discussion. Do I think he's
revolutionizing the sport? Not really. I think Deshaun Watson did
this two year years ago before he heard his knee.
I think r G three did this back when he
was a rookie with the Washington Redskins, before he heard
his knee. But if you want to tell me that
this is order, that con Kaepernick did this with Greg
(12:14):
Roman's offense with a similarly talented defense, special teams, offensive
line when he was in San Francisco and they went
to the Super Bowl and lost by one plate to
the Ravens. By the way, we actually have seen this before.
It is not all that revolutionary. But if you want
to tell me that he's different, that he's special, that
he's more athletic, Okay, again, we can have this discussion.
(12:36):
But the idea that it is an open and shutcase,
he's the absolute unanimous m v P. I actually saw
Pro football talk. Okay, Pro football talk has got himed
Mike Florio. Okay, Mike, if you're listening out there, I
actually think you do a really good job. You know
this league really well. But I believe his tweet last
night was if you vote for anyone else in the
(12:58):
m v P race, you should to have your vote
taken away. Well, let me tell you that's a democracy
if I've ever heard it. That is the most American
statement I've ever heard. That, by the way, is part
and parcel to what's happened to left wing politics as
they've gone right. Used to be the party of everybody.
Now it's the party of everybody who agrees with us.
(13:21):
That's where sports has now started a mirror politics, and
it it becomes nauseating to me. I've said this about
Lebron James. He's a great player and all time great
and there are many people who believe he's the greatest
player to ever play, and you're allowed to have that opinion.
I disagree with the opinion. I think Michael Jordan's the
(13:43):
greatest player to ever play. I would tell you that
in a big game, I'd still rather have Larry Bird
then Lebron James, even though he's clearly had a better
career than Larry Bird. And then there's the question would
you take Magic ahead of him? Like where did you
do with Kareem and all these other guys, Like, look,
(14:04):
it's a really good fun discussion to have. That's what
sports is about. Debate and I like this guy. I
like that guy. You're wrong, here's why. That's okay. But
the idea that if you say Lebron James isn't the
best player on Earth, which I said for the last
three years, I was like, hey, you know, Kevin Durant
seven feet tall, he's got an unblockable jump shot, He's
(14:24):
won two NBA finals, m vps playing against Lebron James,
guarding Lebron James. Lebron James is guarding him. But if
I said that, I'm a Lebron James hater. That's the
that's the Lebron effect, the Lebron zone. We can't be
we somehow, if you're at all critical of Lebron James,
(14:47):
you're a hater. You're okay, Boomer all right? Or maybe
why is that disrespectful to Kevin Durant? Why is it?
Why is saying, hey, Lamar Jackson's having a great year,
(15:08):
mag Aaron Rodgers better, Drew Brees better. I don't think
he could do or has done, what some of these
other quarterbacks have done. Russell Wilson is amazing, an absolute magician.
How Jimmy Garoppolo was ridiculous last week. If I start
(15:28):
going through other guys that may have I believe we'll
have more longevity because of the history of the NFL.
Somehow hater and maybe even a racist because that's why
he wasn't drafted higher. Okay it If you think I'm lying,
I invite you to go to my Twitter handles at
Gottlieb Show. And because I said, hey, I think Lamar
(15:52):
is awesome, It's gonna win. The m v P. Would
take Sam Donald if I was drafting today because of
how he plays, who he is, and the likelihood of
a long successful career because mobile pocket quarterbacks last longer,
have more sustained success. I am not only idiot should
(16:12):
never talked about football because I played basketball, which is
always dub right because other radio hosts didn't play anything.
But because I played collegiate and professional basketball, I don't
know anything about football. But regardless, I'm an idiot, I'm
a hater, and I'm a racist. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
(16:35):
three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app. Doug far Our covers
the NFL for USA Today's Touchdown Wire. Check out his book,
The Genius of Desperation. He's got a piece about last night.
Last night, the Ravens go in and do what they've
done to so many teams to get ahead early and
uh and and the question was more not just would
(16:55):
he break Mike Vick's single season rushing record, but how
long would they leave the game right? Just as little
as as humanly possibly still racks up five touchdown passes
and no interceptions. Anyway, his piece last night, Lamar Jackson
makes more history as his doubters look even more ridiculous.
He joined us on the Doug Gotlip Show on Fox
Sports Radio. Who are the doubters? Oh gosh, well they
(17:21):
go back. There was Bill Polian who wanted him to
be a wide receiver. There was Rich Gannon on the
CBS broadcast. You said he through primarily from outside the pocket,
which isn't true. Um, you know, there there have been
a kind of a litany of people. A lot of
people are saying he's going to get hurt. He's going
to get hurt. Um when the stats for quarterback mobile
quarterbacks and Greg Roman's offenses I believe starts three missed games.
(17:47):
I just the reason I wrote to piece was not
to single any particular person out. But but you have
to when doing a piece like that, you can't just say, oh,
people are Lamar Jackson haters and blah blah blah. You
have to point to specific evidence. So I pointed to
four different things, including Tim Ryan, the forty Niners color
(18:08):
guy who got suspended for a game for talking about
Lamar Jackson's skin color looking like the football. Then Lamar
was out the next week with white sleeves in the
first half. And you know, Rush's for eleven times for
forty yards and throws three touchdown passes against one of
the five best defenses in the NFL. UM And from
my own perspective, I've been doing a lot of research
(18:28):
on the history of black quarterbacks over the last year
for something different, and I'm not you know, I I
bring up the black quarterback thing as an object in
the discussion because it is one. I'm not calling him
when a racist. I'm not bringing that to bear. Whether
it looks like it or not, it's not my intention.
But when you go back to the days of Willie
(18:50):
Thrower and Marlon Briscoe and James Harris and guys like that,
there are these sort of repeated things that happened to
black quarterbacks. They're they're marginalized. When you know, when Buffalo
was playing Baltimore and people are wondering, oh, what's Lamar
Jackson to do? Well, Josh Allen is being played like
Cam Newton was being played. I don't hear anyone questioning
(19:10):
whether he's going to get hurt and he was vomiting
footballs all over the place. Listen, I, Doug, I respectfully disagree.
And this has nothing to do with him being black.
It has nothing to do with him mean black. I
honestly think you're this You're you're bringing up a problem
that the NFL had thirty years ago. But people aren't
questioning whether or not Pat Mahomes will get hurt or
(19:31):
they did with Russell Wilson when he used to run
a bunch like we've most of the world has evolved
in and football has evolved into can you throw? Can
you not throw. He was terribly inaccurate during his time
at Louisville, even though remarkably successful. Okay, he was inaccurate
at times last year booed off his own home field
last year in the playoffs by his fans, and the
(19:55):
idea that he that you wouldn't get hurt, like I don't,
I don't r G three not hurt. Colin Kaepernick got hurt, right, Like,
one of the things that no one mentions is Colin
Kaepernick has sustained a litany of injuries within this exact
same offense. That's one of the things, as well as inaccuracy.
Um that that kind of brought him down even before
he started kneeling before the flag and he became a
(20:17):
symbol of something completely different. So I mean even Cam Newton, Okay, No,
it's not about Cam Newton being black or being white.
It's about the fact that Cam Newton ran the football
a bunch, was the NFL's m v P we And
if it's about accuracy, like Josh Allen's been inaccurate, he
got crushed before the NFL Draft because of it. Tim
Tebow lost his job because he couldn't throw a football,
(20:38):
not because he got hurt, you know, because you can't throw.
I I do agree there used to be a problem.
I honestly think people want to make this about him
being a black quarterback and want to make a social
statement about it, and I you're you're I would say,
you're denying the fact that there are other African American
quarterbacks Deshaun Watson who are don't receive an sort of
(21:00):
the same criticism because they don't play this sort of
way and are more accurate throwers traditionally traditionally. Yes, he's
become he's made design and offense, and he's improved, and
he's evolved, and and he's I would say he has
proved many of the doubters. Vegas had him in fifteen
touchdown passes before the year began. They didn't believe in him, right, So,
(21:20):
I but I don't think it comes down to race,
does it. I don't think it comes down to race.
I think that there is And whether this is subliminal
or not, I think there tends to be a higher
bar for black quarterbacks in general when it comes to you.
I couldn't disagree more. I just now, listen, listen, are
(21:42):
we are we critical of Baker? Mayfield for everything he
says and everything he does. Okay, why because he was
the number one pick? Right? Because he has nothing to
do with the white or black or whatever. He's a
former walk on who became the number one pick in
a Heisman Tromph winner. We're critical of him because he
runs him because he runs his mouth and as he
hasn't played that well, has nothing to do with all black.
(22:03):
The question about him in college was was he a
product of Lincoln Rally's offense and similar to you know,
his tween season was similar to this one for Lamar Jackson.
That I don't think anyone saw that coming. Um. You know,
I'm talking in ward with general sense, and we clearly
agree to disagree on that, and that's perfectly fine. That's
where I'm coming from. That it's not the primary thing.
(22:24):
It is a part of the discussion. I think it
is a is a huge part of While a lot
of people think that he was uh, they think somehow
he was done wrong by the draft. It should be
pointed out the Baltimore Ravens drafted a tight end in
the first round before they traded up to draft Lamar
(22:46):
Jackson in the first round. So this whole idea that
the holy that everybody else is wrong and only the
Ravens got it right, even the Ravens passed on him
the first chance they had at a franchise quarterback. Okay,
so here's the big question. Here's the big question. Is
it sustainable that it is? It's a fascinating question. Um.
From an injury perspective, I mean, his his closest camp
(23:08):
is obviously Michael Vick. And the only thing that stopped
Michael Vick's mid season career curve was five ft eight
days in jail. Um, he didn't miss a lot of
games due to injury. If you I mean and and
Greg Roman, I mean, this is the guy who took
Tyrod Taylor to the Pro Bowl. Oppressive enough. Um. In
Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman's last season in San Francisco,
(23:31):
halfway through the season, what they wanted to do was
change what Colin Kaepernick was. They wanted to make him
more of a pocket passer. It didn't work out as
well for Kaepernick because he wasn't He hadn't elevated his
ability to read defenses and do things that primarily pocket
passers due Um, and when you go back to Lamar Jackson.
(23:53):
I mean, yeah, he wasn't accurate in college, and there
was one primary functional mechanical reason for that is he
played aid from two narrow a bases. Feet were too
close together, and when that happens consistently, it's very hard
to repeatably be accurate on short you know, on intermediate
to deep throws. The Ravens have been very patient with
(24:15):
Jackson in Okay, these are the things you do well,
these are the things we need to work on. We're
gonna sort of merge those together, um as the Seahawks
were with Russell Wilson, as the Panthers were with Cam Newton. UM.
So they've worked out a lot of those things. And
yes there's some read option, Yes there's some art. There's
actually a ton of r p o UM. But a
(24:35):
lot of what Lamar is doing is from empty formations
with no running back in the backfield, and he's reading
his first to his second too at times his third
receiver UM, and he's making these decisions a lot of
times in the red zone where the defense is more compressed.
So my long winded answer to is it sustainable? Is
(24:56):
is this sustainable? Probably not, because you have the Mike Tyson.
Every one is a plan util they get punched in
the mouth and Robert Griffin, the throp is doing fine
and tell helloi not a landed on him like a zeppelin.
Um and and things change. So you don't know, he
could be Michael Vick and do this for a long time.
And when Michael Vick went to Philadelphia, Andy Redd Marty
(25:17):
Morton went talked aboutels like quarterback and then it was
a different thing. So the question is is this sustainable?
You know, he's at a Lamar Jackson isn't player right
now where a lot of his his injury risk is
minimized severely because when he runs to the edge, nobody
can catch him before he runs at a bounce. Now,
on the play that in which he broke Michael Vick's
(25:40):
single season rushing mark, he got I mean the linebacker
uh landed on his shoulder. And you know, the Ravens
do have some concern about that. And certainly as the
Ravens go more towards their first UH overall see first
number one overall seed in franchise history, you know, are
they going to arrest him more? Yeah, I mean there
(26:01):
becomes a balance to this. Um. So, is this kind
of game sustainable in the NFL. A guy starts to
lose a step and then all of a sudden those
free out of bounds runs are contested, and then you
have to think of something else. I think the Ravens
already getting ahead of that, and I think Lamar Jackson
under Great Roman's offense is more equipped to do that
(26:23):
over time than Colin Kaepernick was half a decade ago. Interesting.
I think the other question becomes, you know, if you
watch the reason traditionally uh in addition to questions about
accuracy and complexity, the reason tradition that option the option
game hasn't been run in the NFL is because the
way they defended in college. Everyone it's a simon football.
(26:46):
Everybody's got a guy. You hit the quarterback every time,
and at this to this point, no one, no one
hits him in the backfield. They don't. They They have
tried to take away mark Ingram, you know, they've tried
to corral him and keep him in the pocket when
he throws, but they haven't hit him at the mesh point.
And I guess I wonder if and when that happens,
(27:06):
well that cause him because I do remember Russell Wilson
early in his career running a lot of uh, a
lot of r p O s, And they were hitting
him at the mesh point. And sure enough they stopped
running a lot of it. And it was almost like
a gentleman's agreement, we won't hit him, you won't run
some of that option stuff. And I just wonder if
that's if that's the next step in defending Baltimore in
the playoffs, is all right, we're gonna start hitting him
(27:29):
every time he hands it off for fakes handling it
off possible. And traditionally, with quarterbacks who operated a lot
outside of the the pocket, and this includes Cam and this
includes Russell and included r G three, for a while,
officials are less inclined to blow unnecessary roughness, they're they're
less likely to throw unnecessary of the flags on quarterbacks
(27:50):
like that. And I and and that's not a black
or white thing. I would have include anyone from Josh
Allen to Sam Donald. By the way, Sam Donald has
more passes outside the pocket this you than Lamar Jackson does.
It's it's it's I mean, he's got a terrible offensive line. Yeah,
he runs around back there. I mean, like the the
the the passes. It's not the pass outside of the the
pocket on the issue, it's the volume of runs right,
(28:11):
And look there, I don't think teams are designed for
eleven on eleven football, and I think that the Braven's
and the point you're making, which is is something which
is really really smart, is the mistake the Niners made. Frankly,
the mistake the Redskins made is you try to put
a square peg into around a hole. You didn't just
ride it out. And the Ravens appear to be fully
(28:31):
committed to this style, even with r G three is
as the backup right where the getting the putt in
the three tight ends. You know, drafting to this style,
Hollywood Brown is not a volume guy, but as a rookie,
he can't complain about the number of catches and he
can just take the top off the defense. The whole
thing is brilliant and they seem fully committed to it.
Whereas in the past you'd start out with a quarterback,
(28:52):
you'd run some of the college stuff, but hope that
solely he evolves into a pro style quarterback. But this
is allowing Lamar to do what Lamar is always done,
and that's why he's so successful at a young age.
Fair well, yes, and you talked about the mesh point.
And this goes back to Romans days in San Francisco
where I remember talking to Brian Billick about this. The
(29:12):
week before UM A Blue Super Bowl forty seven was
Baltimore San Francisco Super Bowl. I was talking to Billick
about it and he was like, you know, there are
elements of everything from you know, power counter trap, old
school smash mouth to inside and outside zone too, you know,
log poles to everything. And they had a very diverse
run game, not like this where it's you know, Baltimore
(29:35):
and San Francisco have the two most schematically and formational
diverse run games in the NFL. UM so that's part
of it. Part of it is and they and Buffalo
did an interesting thing because there even a ton of
empty um just Lamar in the backfield, and that's it.
And one of the reasons they want to do that
is it creates a different kind of conflict for the
defense because usually when you run empty, oh we're gonna
(29:58):
run nickel or dime will go, quarters will go, cover
three will go, you know whatever. But with Lamar you
have to factor him as as then both the quarterback
and the running back, so you're kind of betwixt in between.
So they're doing a lot of different things to maximize
his particular physical and mental skills that you really couldn't
(30:21):
do with any other quarterback in the league. I mean,
you'd have to go back to Mike Vick and his
prime r G three was not this fast. Russell Wilson
was never this fast. Cam Newton is built more like
a linebacker. I mean he went looking for contact, which
is one of the reasons you're kind of in the
states in now. This is you know, what they've done
is incredibly intelligent because they understood that there were you know,
(30:46):
there were precedents to this, and certainly the rise of
the R P O game everywhere from high school to
the NFL in the last three or four years has
helped Lamar as it's helped very few other quote unquote
mobile or quote unquote option quarter backs. But it's it's
the different kinds of ways the Ravens attack you. It's
everything from fall house back fields, two empty back fields,
(31:09):
to you know, twins to you know, your three tight
ends in a in a bunch formation. There really isn't
any one thing they do. There isn't like a staple,
it's all it's all kinds of stuff. So you're not
just thinking, you're overthinking. And when you're overthinking, you can't
just react to the fastest player on the field. I mean,
(31:32):
I know, uh, leading up to the Jets game, somebody
asked Greg Williams, well, you're gonna spy Lamar, And I've
heard other defense recording to stay this and it's always
a laugh, like, yeah, we don't have anyone that fast. Yeah,
you can't buy them. That's out, that's out the window.
You don't have Eric Brooks by Michael Vick. That's not
going to happen anymore. So they've taken what Lamar does
(31:54):
and they've just blown it out through formation, diversity, and
the run game. And by the way, they also have
Marshal Yonda their guard as a future Hall of Famer.
In Ronnie Stanley and Orlando Around the other two probably
the best combination of pass blocking tackles in the NFL.
So it's just one of those circumstances where everything lines
(32:15):
up and as Lamar grows as a quarterback, it just
becomes that much more. It's it's really amazing watch Doug Ferrar.
Check out his new piece, Lamar Jackson makes History. Is
his doubters look even more ridiculous? As part as the
US Day part of USA Today's Touchdown Wire follow up
on Twitter's work in USA Today. Thanks so much for
joining us, Doug, I appreciate the dialog. Thank you all right.
Check out his book, The Genius of Desperation. Be sure
(32:37):
to catch the live edition of The Doug gott Leap
Show weekdays at three pm Easter Noon Pacific. Is Aaron
Rodgers having a good year? Is he having a great year?
Here's the raw data. He's eighth and touchdown passes farreon Rogers.
That's okay, little low. He's throwing the fewest number of
interceptions only two, fourteenth in passing yards per game, ninth
(32:59):
in passer rating, five teenth in QBR. His team is
in first place in the NFC North got a chance
that don't feel advantaged throughout. That's still a possibility. Is
he having a good year? Yeah? Is he having a
great year? Honestly? Yeah, if you take you this into account,
(33:20):
teams winning, he's healthy and he doesn't have to win
it by himself every game, and he doesn't have to
over extend himself early in the season. I m v
p s are cool, but he's got too regular season
records are awesome, but that doesn't establish your legacy, right,
(33:46):
what would cement him as one of the all time greats?
And I can make the case to Aaron Rodgers the
best quarterback to ever play the position. But until you
get that second super Bowl. First, you gotta get to one,
then you gotta win one, then you gotta win too.
After that, there's no fluke to it, no fluke to it.
He's one two m v ps. He's won a super Bowl,
(34:07):
he's got to win another one. So what he's doing
is dad mode? All right, dad mode? What do dads
do all of that? Do dads have nice clothes? Yeah?
Do they wear them all the time? No? Why Marty Mary,
my dad? I don't have to now. Look, Dad goes
out with his wife. Dad goes out to a Christmas party.
(34:30):
Dad goes out in Vegas with the boys, throwing a
nice suit. Look good. He has it in him. He
just doesn't have to impress anybody during the week. He
doesn't have to wear the Italian loafers on the day
of the basis, you can wear sneakers. Hell, you can
wear those those uh nurse looking Steph Curry shoes that
they had a couple of years ago, because you can
(34:51):
just go They're comfortable. Now, Look, dad mode doesn't mean
giving up. It's not like you go dad bod, you
stopped taking care of yourself and you show up to
formal events wearing sweatpants. No, no, no, no no, I'm
not saying you go that far. But dad mode is
evolved and smarter and understanding. You don't have to put
(35:12):
forth all of that effort every day of the week,
just what it matters. So he's letting his team learn evolved,
letting guys figure out the offense. He's using less energy,
not more, as he gets ready for the playoffs. Then
we get the playoffs. Now he's going all out. Right now,
(35:33):
he's going all out. Aaron Rodgers had to go all
out for much of his career because his team wasn't
any good. He thinks his team is pretty good. It's
got a chance to continue get better and all of
that will come to be and come to appear as
such when you get to the playoffs. You know, we
(35:54):
look at it now, like what's wrong with Aaron Rodgers.
Why is he throwing for seven touchdown passes and eight
touchdown pass like because he doesn't have to. They have
not and I have never seen a Super Bowl awarded
to a team that wins a game in November and December.
Right it's the It's like the adage in sports is
(36:14):
you can't win a game in the first half, and
you can lose the game in the first half. The
same is true in football. You can't win a Super
Bowl during the regular season, but you can sure as
hell lose one. And he's playing and not lose one
before he plays to win one. He's not turned over,
he's not putting himself in harm's way, and he's not
trying to force it and do everything and totally over
(36:36):
extend himself so he doesn't have anything left when the
games get really rough in January and maybe into February,
Aaron Rodgers is in what we will call dad mode.
You still got it, You still got the fastball, you
still got the cool, you still got the cologne. You
just don't wear cologne every day. You got the tight
fitting jeans. You just don't wear him to work. You
(37:00):
don't have to shave daily. You're not to bathe daily,
but on day night you look good, you feel good,
and you know you've still got it.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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