Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The book is based on your commencement speech from the
University of Michigan. So after I read the book, I
went back and watched the speech again. Dude, that speech
was so good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, when the speech was done, all these people,
you know, it's from us seventy thousand people, which is
just to put it in perspective, is what you two
played at Wembley Stadium for Live A. So basically, I'm like,
you too, very similar. I see it very similar. Our
lives are so similar. But the truth was I didn't
care about seventy thousand people because I cared about one
(00:35):
My son was in the audience. He was graduating that day.
So it was nonsense. It was it was I cared
about one person, and I never planned it to be
a book. When the book was done, when the speech
was done, all these people started contacting me and saying, hey,
we would love the text of that speech. We'd love
the text. And they were tracking my sister down in
New York to like, hey, we saw your brother in
(00:56):
the stadium today, can you give us a text? Elliott,
I've been doing this for twenty five years. No one's
ever asked me for the text of anything. I've ever said,
but this was the one thing, and so publishers came
when we were like, you know what, maybe we should
turn this into a book. And I think the world
is just starving for some inspiration right now.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So ex went, can I ask you this, Has anybody
ever said and I understand what you mean that it
was you delivered the speech to seventy thousand people, but
it was for one person, and that you wrote the
speech for one person because your.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Son was graduating. He was his graduating class.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Has anybody ever kicked back and said, well, hey, thanks Brad,
I wish you would have actually written it for.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Everybody that was going to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, yeah, no. All these people were like, what about
my kid? You know? But the funny part is is
at the end of the day, I know one thing
all have. My whole career is based on I'm not
that special, right if I love. All I showed up
that day with was love for my kid. And these
are the kids who, like didn't have a high school
graduation because of COVID. We were just wanted to get
(02:00):
through one graduation without protesters and everything else that was
going on. And you know what, there were fifty thousand
people parents in a stadium that were just like me.
So that's the thing is every time it's like our
kids books, like, I don't know if anyone else is
gonna like them. I writing for my kids, and I
just know I'm not that special and hopefully there'll be
other people who kind of see it the same way
I do. And well, I was going to say one
(02:20):
where people just did.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
It hear hearing you say that, or you just convinced
me is maybe that's what made it so special is
that it was so personalized. And it's not like you
were up there saying your kid's name or any of that,
but you were so focused on him that if you're
a parent trying to imagine being able to give a
commencement speech to your own kid, it felt like it
(02:44):
was personal for everybody that was graduating.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Maybe that's what made it so special.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And I think what happened was, you know, here's what
there were protesters marching down the field eight minutes before
I went on. You can't see this in the video,
and it's all going bad. Right. I'm on like the
twenty yard line, they're on the fifty yard line. We're like,
they're about to overtake us and I at the time
it's the clouds are coming. I think it's going to rain.
My sister, the protesters get eight minutes before I go
(03:12):
and get pushed back to the end zone. Now they're
eighty yards away. The clouds part the sun comes through.
My sister texts me from the stands on stage a
picture of the clouds party and says, MOhm and Dad
are looking out for you today. And I knew in
that moment I prepped this speech, I knew I was
going to kind of cry at all these different parts
when I mentioned my son, so I was all ready
(03:34):
for that. But I got to this line in the
speech where I said every I said, I wish my
parents were alive today to see that we're okay. I
wish they could see, you know that where my kids are.
And I said in every person in this stadium has
someone who they wish could be here today. Right there
are three students who didn't graduate because they're getting posthumous degrees.
(03:54):
And what I wasn't prepared for, Elliott is I could
feel the empathy come off all those families. I had
never experienced anything like it before. It's seventy thousand people,
but it hits you like a wave. And that's the
moment you can see in the video where my voice
truly cracks and I'm like, do not lose it here
in front of everyone, because I wasn't ready for that.
(04:14):
And in that moment, like what Corey, my wife said,
is you tapped a vain you didn't know was there.
You were just experiencing the world and everyone was experiencing
it with.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
You, right, And you talk about I was reading one
part in the book that so there's kind of like
a lead up to the to the speech right where
you where you kind of set up what the book
is about, and it's all and it's make magic. What
are the what are the four? What are the fourth?
Different types of magic? Again, Brad, it's makes something.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, go yeah. So And basically, if you talk to magicians,
put aside illusions and escapes, there's only four types of
magic tricks. You make something appear. The second one is
you make something disappear, the third is you make two
things switch places. And the fourth and final trick is
you take one thing and you turn it into something else,
which is the hardest trick of all transformation. And you
(05:05):
know obviously, the speech goes through all the different ones
and what you have to make appear and what you
have to make disappear. And when I got to to
make you know the third trick, which is you take
one thing and you turn into something else, I started
talking about empathy, right, And I told this story, and
this is all true. When I was thirteen years old,
my dad lost his job and we had nothing, and
(05:27):
we had to move in with my grandparents because we
couldn't even have money for We didn't even have money
for a security deposit for an apartment. So it's six people,
my mom, my dad, my sister, myself, all in a
one bedroom apartment. And all the people in the condos
in Florida were complaining, trying to get us evicted. They're like,
there's too many people, six of you can't live in
such a small space. And this one woman, my grandmother's neighbors,
(05:48):
saw what was happening to us and said, take my
apartment for your family. She's like, I'm going to move out,
you take my apartment. And when I was younger, I
always heard I knew her name was Mercy, but I
always heard it as Mercy right, and make the mistake.
Mercy and empathy is what this woman showed us. And
I said, you know, cruel right now, cruelty and venom
(06:09):
and harshly judging those we disagree with has become sport
in our culture. But cruelty and venom on signs of strength.
There's signs of weakness and petty and security, and what
takes strength is showing kindness and empathy. And I could
feel that thing again. The audience just hit me. They started,
it exploded, and I was like, what just happened there?
(06:29):
And it made me realize, right now, we're starving for
empathy and that's what make magic as a book is
about it. You know, the tagline on the book is
a little book of inspiration you didn't know you needed,
and my god, we're all starving for it now.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
But what I was going to say is like, so
there's a little lead up to where you get to
the speech, right, and you talk about how you know
it's you've got three kids, but you say, as they
transition from youth to adulthood, you've learned more from them
than they have for you. And and maybe this is
only the product of having kids who are going through
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
But the kids my age. That is so true, It
really is.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, you and I when we're texting, right, I
mean we text back and forth about our kids. They
are obviously about the same age, experience and the same stuff.
But we have the same experiences. Our kids are having
wherever they are, whether they're Michigan or other schools, right, Like,
And that's how it is for all of us and
any good parent. Like, if you think you're just giving
wisdom to your kids every day and they're going, thank
(07:30):
you father, you are indeed the greatest father of all time,
right like, you are just not parenting correctly, right, you
are delusional and I and it's true, man, you know
that speech. I was struggling with, like what do I
make each of the magic tricks? And my wife finally
said to me, just give Jonas the best advice you got.
And I was like, that's the answer. The answer is
(07:51):
like look deep and say what did you actually learn
in these twenty three years? And that's what you know.
The whole speech is filled with, hey, the but.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Why did you just out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And I mean it's not getting anything away because I
feel like, well you even say in the book if
you want to watch the speech, go go do it.
But why did you Why did you feel like would
it have just not translated to put in the parts
about like Desmond Howard and JJ McCarthy, Like was.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There a real yeah, let's talk about it, Yeah, let's
talk about it. So, when I was prepping this speech
and trying to figure out what to say, I asked
every single friend of mine, what did you remember from graduation?
What did the speaker say? And one hundred percent of
the people said, I don't remember a word, So I
knew whatever I said it wasn't gonna matter. The only
thing I remember for my own graduation is it was
(08:38):
thear Desmond Howard, the famous football player, won the Heisman Trophy,
and the graduation speaker that Desmond Howard, are you in
the stands and in full cap and gown. Desman Howard
stood up and did the Heisman post. He was keen
of rows in front of me, and I remember thinking,
at twenty two years old, I'm like, oh my gosh,
there he is. That's like excellence right here next to me.
And so I realized the only thing you know that
(09:00):
you can ever do when it comes to magic is
magic is not for yourself. It's a gift you give
other people. And so when the speech, I said, ladies
and gentlemen, a good magician always has another magic trick
up there. Sleep, please welcome my friend Desmond Howard. And
Desmond Howard thirty years later comes out and does the
Heisman post in front of these seventy thousand people a
place that course goes bananas, right. And then we bring
(09:21):
out JJ McCarthy and Blake korm who won the national
championship for US. And I realized, that's how I'm gonna
give people. I'm gonna give them a memory. That's all
we ever remember. That's the best gift you can give
someone as a memory. And when we thought about doing
the book, I was like, I can try and get
you know, Desmond Howard to appear every time you open
the book. But that budget was really high, and you know,
(09:41):
and the publisher was like, you know, we can do
a pop up book, but then it becomes just a
Michigan book, right, and we wanted the book. We wanted
the book to be you can give this to any
graduate of any age, whether they're in kindergarten, junior, high,
high school, college, and more important you can buy it
for yourself for your own inspiration. And so we pulled
out the miss as you saw, we pulled out the
Michigan parts of the book. I rewrote a new ending,
(10:04):
rewrote a new beginning for it, and made it universal
because the messages inside were universal. And that's what we
wanted to make Magic to be is something that everyone
could experience.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Hey, could we pop around a little bit before I
have to let you go?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, wherever.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So the last time.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You were in here, we were talking about the JFK conspiracy, right,
and one of the things that I learned in the book.
And listen you you're you were admittedly a JFK nerd.
And so when you did the story the JFK Conspiracy
nonfiction like, you're very very well done. One of the
people in the book is Jackie Jackie O's or Jackie
(10:43):
Kennedy's secret service agent Clint Hill, who I'm And listen,
I told you when you were in here, I knew
nothing about him. That guy's a bad ass. How bizarre
is it he just came back up? Well, I mean
because he passed away. But I sent you a text
thank you for teaching me about him. I didn't even
know who he was, and then I just learned about
(11:03):
him from you, and then he popped up in the news.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, you basically killed him. Your love for him killed him. No,
I mean, listen, you texted me privately about him before.
You were like, this is the guy. I love this guy,
and how could you not write this guy. When Jackie
Kennedy goes into labor, JFK is nowhere to be found.
She's hemorrhaging and on our way to the hospital. He's
(11:27):
on a plane headed to Florida. The person who gets
there first is her secret Service agent, Clint Hill, and
he treats Jackie Kennedy like one of his own family.
And you know, when he gets a signed to her,
he's like, you know, he thinks he's getting assigned to
the president. He's like, this is awesome. I made it
Protective Detail PPD. This is it. And they're like, no,
you're you're assigned to the first lady. He's like, oh no.
(11:47):
He thinks it's a disaster, like he's going to be
going to you know, to tea parties and right, and
he thinks it's going to be terribly And he gets
Jackie Kennedy and it's of course the assignment of a
lifetime and their relationship in the book, as you know,
is just one of the best things in there. And
he was so kind to it. I never got to
meet him because we knew. We tried to, but they
said he's really old. I didn't realize how sick he was.
(12:10):
Sure right before the book came out he had to
okay all the stuff we were using. He was so
kind to us. But I highly recommend him his book
with Lisa mccubb and they were so kind to We
wouldn't be able to do the JFK Conspiracy without them.
And man that he died right as the book was
coming out, was was I mean, I'm glad we got
to share a story.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Hey, did we did we talk to you?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Had you announced Simone Biles the last time we talked
or has that been since we talked?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think it's since we talked, right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, it was after Yeah, we didn't announce it then
the well, I mean, that would have been nice that
morning to be able to say what it was. Yeah,
I know it would have been. That would have been
a really good thing of me.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, but I like that in the in the list
of the I AM books because we know about we
know obviously the Beatles are coming and that we talked about.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
But I like the I like the Simon bar.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, so obviously we you know, we did say I
Am Sally Ryde just came out a week ago, right.
The best part of that one was two female astronauts
like tweeted and put it on their Instagram, like real astronauts.
My wife was like, finally impressed. I'm like, that's what
impressed you, the two astronauts. She's like, yeah, that's it.
And then yeah, and the Beatles obviously impressed. Is every
you know, that's just awesome that the Beatles are great.
(13:22):
But what happened was is they asked me to do
someone Biles. It's probably you know, a couple of years
ago when everything happened and she stepped down and we
said her story's not done yet, and if she wins
the Gold, it's obviously you want the ending and the
finale to the story. But when I got into the book,
which obviously I've written now and Chris is drawn and
it's coming out soon, is it's actually and I didn't
(13:46):
know this when I was going in. It's our first
I AM book. That's all about mental health, right, and
and the books kind of you know, the books kind
of take on there's some mo like some books are
about inspirations, some are about creativity, some are about like
perspiration and basically you know how hard you can push
to get what you want. But we've never done a
book about mental health. It is fully about our struggle
(14:08):
with mental health and how open she's been about it,
and I honestly think for some people, especially for kids
who are going through it, it's going to be the
most important book we do. It blew me away. Her
story is so incredible, and I.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Know if you go to like, if you go to
Brad's side, you could pre order it now for when
it comes out.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Hey, last thing, Brad, last thing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Real quickly, I was dicking around on Instagram. I like
that you posted your Michigan College ID picture.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
God damn that does not look like you.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Can I tell you how. So I go to the
Michigan game last time. I'm here in ann Arbor and
the president of the university one of the regions comes
up to me and goes, look what the president university
texted me, And it's my ID. And it literally is
like and I'm like, the president university is passing around
my old idea. And I can't tell you how many
people said to me you were so handsome. But the
(15:03):
key thing in that sentence is the word so you
were so handsome? The past tense is a physical javelin
in my soul. And I don't know if you know,
but if you stay at the Graduate Hotel in ann Arbor,
the whole thing with the Graduate is they give you
like a room key from someone who attended the university,
and they picked my old ida and I'm now one
(15:24):
of the keys there. You know, it has taking me
this long to put my room key in that many
women pans like my whole life, But I love the
fact that every person like you were hot, And I'm like,
what were what? What the worst?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
By the way, And I don't know, maybe maybe I'm right,
maybe I'm wrong, but like you've posted pictures over the
years of like you in your in your family, and
sometimes it'll be old pictures of like when it was
you and your your sister and your mom and your dad,
and you look like you, like you're you look like
you now, Like I didn't know you when you were hot.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
The I just know you as now.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But you know what, when I look at the old
picture of you when you were hot photo, if I
slap a good mustache on that you do look like
your dad.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Uh, that kills me. You may be right. Everyone says
that look like my son now. But I think you
could be right about that, and that thanks for ruining
my day. I appreciate that. Can I tell you the best?
Can I just tell you the best story that I got?
Since the book came out as I got and this
happened yesterday, so I haven't been able to tell anyone,
but I got a last night. Is so one of
(16:37):
the stories that I tell in the book is, and
I love this story is when I used to work.
I spent four years working at the Hogendaws and the
Avon Tear Mall. And if you live in Florida, the
Avantear of Mall was chaos. And I remember one day
this woman comes up and she starts snapping her fingers
at me and she's like, you got to serve me.
And I'm like, ma'am, I'll be right with you. And
she says, no, no, no, you got to serve me now.
(16:59):
And I said, ma'am, you know what you're being rude.
I'm not serving you. And she says to me, screams
in my face, You're going to be working at this
miserable ice cream store for the rest of your miserable life.
And I said, ma'am, if I am working here for
the rest of my miserable life, you're still never getting
any ice cream. And she and basically I used to
tell that story, and that story's in Make Magic. It's
(17:20):
one of the stories and I talk about in the
book that like, I used to laugh at that story
and be like it didn't bother me, but it always
bothered me. It made me feel like you just said,
like I would be just like my dad who struggled
and just had a rough time at life, and you know,
was worried I was going to have this kind of
you know, rough existence. And obviously the whole part in
the book is you gotta make what you got to
make disappear as your fear, and that's the second magic trick.
(17:43):
But the best part of the story is yesterday last night,
as I get into ann Arbor, the guy who I
used to work with at Hagendas sends me a picture
of Make Magic and he's like, screw that woman, baby
the daughter back and I'm like, I've waited twce he five,
Like I was like, I know in the speech. I
was like, yes, put your fear away, and I would
(18:05):
thank that woman today. Like, but I love the fact
that my friend who scooped ice cream with me for
and this kid was so he was so poor, like
he had no money. He used to I gotta tell
you this, I've never told the story. I don't think
he used to wear a gold whale tail around his neck.
I used to wear a gold Superman charmer around my neck.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Wait of us time out.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
What is like a whale tail to me is like
a song that a woman wears where it's sticking up
out of her pants.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No, no, no, no, like a true actual like a
killer whale. Like he loved animals and he always wanted
so just to tell you how little women we were getting,
Like I had a gold Superman charm thinking that was cool,
and he had a gold killer whale tail on his neck.
No one was less successful dating than the two of us.
(18:53):
And he always wanted to train the dolphins at Sea World.
That was his dream. And so I hadn't seen him
for a year. This is such a good story. Had
I never tell you this? And so I lose touch
with him. My my very first book ever, The Tenth Justice,
comes out. I'm doing an event in Vero Beach, Florida.
There's no one there, nobody. It's like, there's ten people
(19:14):
in the whole place if I'm lucky. And he walks
in with a pint of Hoggin'd House ice cream, and
I'm like and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I said,
where do you live now? And he says, I live
in Orlando. I go, what do you do? And he goes,
I live in Orlando. I go, you train the dolphins
at SeaWorld, don't you? And he says I do. And
I go to He says, come to SeaWorld. And I
(19:34):
go to SeaWorld and it takes a while for me
to get there, but I go to Sea war with
my family, puts us in a special section, and I
figure he's the guy who like throws fish to the
dolphins when they do a trick and the show starts
and the dolphin shoots out of the water. He's standing
on the nose of the dolphin. I'm like, you're not
in the show. He's the star of the show. Now
I start balling, crying because this kid had nothing. He
(19:59):
was a single mom, he had we both worked at
fourteen years old. I thought we had nothing. He had
less than I did, and he was living his dream training.
He still trains the well as he was. You go
to the seat the Dolphin Show. Nick Wicket is the
man and he's who's last night brought the bitterness twenty
five years later and I was like, oh, Nick, thank you,
(20:19):
my friend, thank you for our revenge on that woman
who snapped in our faces. So yes, make magic and
be as bitter as you can be as Nick is
at hagin'ha.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Wait, hold on, Tyler, what picture is this? Tyler just
pulled up a picture that's Nick. There's Nick. Tyler just
pulled up a picture of Nick at Sea World.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I'm telling you you can. You can verify. So let
me tell you something. I'm gonna do another one. Tell
this is better. My best friend from elementary school is
John SHERMANI and I wrote a short story about him
and it was all about that. Brad Meltzer writes books today.
John Stremane is the main DJ oft Flash Dancers the
Strip Club in New York. And my son is, and
my son is like, no way is that true. Go
(21:00):
on LinkedIn. It is right there in his LinkedIn profile.
You can find it. And like you can verify all
my stories because now there's like this proof of it,
so you can find nick. You can find it at
the world.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And by the way, John is always like Jo always says,
come to you, got to come to the strip club.
I will hook you up. I'm like, dude, I'm not coming.
He's like, bring the book. He's like, bring the book
toward us a strip club. I'm like, I'm not coming
to this. So good. You can't make it up.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
All right, make magic.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
The Book of Inspiration you didn't know you needed is
out and available now.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Brad Meltzer, I appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Love you.
The book is based on your commencement speech from the
University of Michigan. So after I read the book, I
went back and watched the speech again. Dude, that speech
was so good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, when the speech was done, all these people,
you know, it's from us seventy thousand people, which is
just to put it in perspective, is what you two
played at Wembley Stadium for Live A. So basically, I'm like,
you too, very similar. I see it very similar. Our
lives are so similar. But the truth was I didn't
care about seventy thousand people because I cared about one
(00:35):
My son was in the audience. He was graduating that day.
So it was nonsense. It was it was I cared
about one person, and I never planned it to be
a book. When the book was done, when the speech
was done, all these people started contacting me and saying, hey,
we would love the text of that speech. We'd love
the text. And they were tracking my sister down in
New York to like, hey, we saw your brother in
(00:56):
the stadium today, can you give us a text? Elliott,
I've been doing this for twenty five years. No one's
ever asked me for the text of anything. I've ever said,
but this was the one thing, and so publishers came
when we were like, you know what, maybe we should
turn this into a book. And I think the world
is just starving for some inspiration right now.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So ex went, can I ask you this, Has anybody
ever said and I understand what you mean that it
was you delivered the speech to seventy thousand people, but
it was for one person, and that you wrote the
speech for one person because your.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Son was graduating. He was his graduating class.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Has anybody ever kicked back and said, well, hey, thanks Brad,
I wish you would have actually written it for.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Everybody that was going to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, yeah, no. All these people were like, what about
my kid? You know? But the funny part is is
at the end of the day, I know one thing
all have. My whole career is based on I'm not
that special, right if I love. All I showed up
that day with was love for my kid. And these
are the kids who, like didn't have a high school
graduation because of COVID. We were just wanted to get
(02:00):
through one graduation without protesters and everything else that was
going on. And you know what, there were fifty thousand
people parents in a stadium that were just like me.
So that's the thing is every time it's like our
kids books, like, I don't know if anyone else is
gonna like them. I writing for my kids, and I
just know I'm not that special and hopefully there'll be
other people who kind of see it the same way
I do. And well, I was going to say one
(02:20):
where people just did.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
It hear hearing you say that, or you just convinced
me is maybe that's what made it so special is
that it was so personalized. And it's not like you
were up there saying your kid's name or any of that,
but you were so focused on him that if you're
a parent trying to imagine being able to give a
commencement speech to your own kid, it felt like it
(02:44):
was personal for everybody that was graduating.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Maybe that's what made it so special.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And I think what happened was, you know, here's what
there were protesters marching down the field eight minutes before
I went on. You can't see this in the video,
and it's all going bad. Right. I'm on like the
twenty yard line, they're on the fifty yard line. We're like,
they're about to overtake us and I at the time
it's the clouds are coming. I think it's going to rain.
My sister, the protesters get eight minutes before I go
(03:12):
and get pushed back to the end zone. Now they're
eighty yards away. The clouds part the sun comes through.
My sister texts me from the stands on stage a
picture of the clouds party and says, MOhm and Dad
are looking out for you today. And I knew in
that moment I prepped this speech, I knew I was
going to kind of cry at all these different parts
when I mentioned my son, so I was all ready
(03:34):
for that. But I got to this line in the
speech where I said every I said, I wish my
parents were alive today to see that we're okay. I
wish they could see, you know that where my kids are.
And I said in every person in this stadium has
someone who they wish could be here today. Right there
are three students who didn't graduate because they're getting posthumous degrees.
(03:54):
And what I wasn't prepared for, Elliott is I could
feel the empathy come off all those families. I had
never experienced anything like it before. It's seventy thousand people,
but it hits you like a wave. And that's the
moment you can see in the video where my voice
truly cracks and I'm like, do not lose it here
in front of everyone, because I wasn't ready for that.
(04:14):
And in that moment, like what Corey, my wife said,
is you tapped a vain you didn't know was there.
You were just experiencing the world and everyone was experiencing
it with.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
You, right, And you talk about I was reading one
part in the book that so there's kind of like
a lead up to the to the speech right where
you where you kind of set up what the book
is about, and it's all and it's make magic. What
are the what are the four? What are the fourth?
Different types of magic? Again, Brad, it's makes something.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, go yeah. So And basically, if you talk to magicians,
put aside illusions and escapes, there's only four types of
magic tricks. You make something appear. The second one is
you make something disappear, the third is you make two
things switch places. And the fourth and final trick is
you take one thing and you turn it into something else,
which is the hardest trick of all transformation. And you
(05:05):
know obviously, the speech goes through all the different ones
and what you have to make appear and what you
have to make disappear. And when I got to to
make you know the third trick, which is you take
one thing and you turn into something else, I started
talking about empathy, right, And I told this story, and
this is all true. When I was thirteen years old,
my dad lost his job and we had nothing, and
(05:27):
we had to move in with my grandparents because we
couldn't even have money for We didn't even have money
for a security deposit for an apartment. So it's six people,
my mom, my dad, my sister, myself, all in a
one bedroom apartment. And all the people in the condos
in Florida were complaining, trying to get us evicted. They're like,
there's too many people, six of you can't live in
such a small space. And this one woman, my grandmother's neighbors,
(05:48):
saw what was happening to us and said, take my
apartment for your family. She's like, I'm going to move out,
you take my apartment. And when I was younger, I
always heard I knew her name was Mercy, but I
always heard it as Mercy right, and make the mistake.
Mercy and empathy is what this woman showed us. And
I said, you know, cruel right now, cruelty and venom
(06:09):
and harshly judging those we disagree with has become sport
in our culture. But cruelty and venom on signs of strength.
There's signs of weakness and petty and security, and what
takes strength is showing kindness and empathy. And I could
feel that thing again. The audience just hit me. They started,
it exploded, and I was like, what just happened there?
(06:29):
And it made me realize, right now, we're starving for
empathy and that's what make magic as a book is
about it. You know, the tagline on the book is
a little book of inspiration you didn't know you needed,
and my god, we're all starving for it now.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
But what I was going to say is like, so
there's a little lead up to where you get to
the speech, right, and you talk about how you know
it's you've got three kids, but you say, as they
transition from youth to adulthood, you've learned more from them
than they have for you. And and maybe this is
only the product of having kids who are going through
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
But the kids my age. That is so true, It
really is.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, you and I when we're texting, right, I
mean we text back and forth about our kids. They
are obviously about the same age, experience and the same stuff.
But we have the same experiences. Our kids are having
wherever they are, whether they're Michigan or other schools, right, Like,
And that's how it is for all of us and
any good parent. Like, if you think you're just giving
wisdom to your kids every day and they're going, thank
(07:30):
you father, you are indeed the greatest father of all time,
right like, you are just not parenting correctly, right, you
are delusional and I and it's true, man, you know
that speech. I was struggling with, like what do I
make each of the magic tricks? And my wife finally
said to me, just give Jonas the best advice you got.
And I was like, that's the answer. The answer is
(07:51):
like look deep and say what did you actually learn
in these twenty three years? And that's what you know.
The whole speech is filled with, hey, the but.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Why did you just out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And I mean it's not getting anything away because I
feel like, well you even say in the book if
you want to watch the speech, go go do it.
But why did you Why did you feel like would
it have just not translated to put in the parts
about like Desmond Howard and JJ McCarthy, Like was.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There a real yeah, let's talk about it, Yeah, let's
talk about it. So, when I was prepping this speech
and trying to figure out what to say, I asked
every single friend of mine, what did you remember from graduation?
What did the speaker say? And one hundred percent of
the people said, I don't remember a word, So I
knew whatever I said it wasn't gonna matter. The only
thing I remember for my own graduation is it was
(08:38):
thear Desmond Howard, the famous football player, won the Heisman Trophy,
and the graduation speaker that Desmond Howard, are you in
the stands and in full cap and gown. Desman Howard
stood up and did the Heisman post. He was keen
of rows in front of me, and I remember thinking,
at twenty two years old, I'm like, oh my gosh,
there he is. That's like excellence right here next to me.
And so I realized the only thing you know that
(09:00):
you can ever do when it comes to magic is
magic is not for yourself. It's a gift you give
other people. And so when the speech, I said, ladies
and gentlemen, a good magician always has another magic trick
up there. Sleep, please welcome my friend Desmond Howard. And
Desmond Howard thirty years later comes out and does the
Heisman post in front of these seventy thousand people a
place that course goes bananas, right. And then we bring
(09:21):
out JJ McCarthy and Blake korm who won the national
championship for US. And I realized, that's how I'm gonna
give people. I'm gonna give them a memory. That's all
we ever remember. That's the best gift you can give
someone as a memory. And when we thought about doing
the book, I was like, I can try and get
you know, Desmond Howard to appear every time you open
the book. But that budget was really high, and you know,
(09:41):
and the publisher was like, you know, we can do
a pop up book, but then it becomes just a
Michigan book, right, and we wanted the book. We wanted
the book to be you can give this to any
graduate of any age, whether they're in kindergarten, junior, high,
high school, college, and more important you can buy it
for yourself for your own inspiration. And so we pulled
out the miss as you saw, we pulled out the
Michigan parts of the book. I rewrote a new ending,
(10:04):
rewrote a new beginning for it, and made it universal
because the messages inside were universal. And that's what we
wanted to make Magic to be is something that everyone
could experience.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Hey, could we pop around a little bit before I
have to let you go?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, wherever.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So the last time.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You were in here, we were talking about the JFK conspiracy, right,
and one of the things that I learned in the book.
And listen you you're you were admittedly a JFK nerd.
And so when you did the story the JFK Conspiracy
nonfiction like, you're very very well done. One of the
people in the book is Jackie Jackie O's or Jackie
(10:43):
Kennedy's secret service agent Clint Hill, who I'm And listen,
I told you when you were in here, I knew
nothing about him. That guy's a bad ass. How bizarre
is it he just came back up? Well, I mean
because he passed away. But I sent you a text
thank you for teaching me about him. I didn't even
know who he was, and then I just learned about
(11:03):
him from you, and then he popped up in the news.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, you basically killed him. Your love for him killed him. No,
I mean, listen, you texted me privately about him before.
You were like, this is the guy. I love this guy,
and how could you not write this guy. When Jackie
Kennedy goes into labor, JFK is nowhere to be found.
She's hemorrhaging and on our way to the hospital. He's
(11:27):
on a plane headed to Florida. The person who gets
there first is her secret Service agent, Clint Hill, and
he treats Jackie Kennedy like one of his own family.
And you know, when he gets a signed to her,
he's like, you know, he thinks he's getting assigned to
the president. He's like, this is awesome. I made it
Protective Detail PPD. This is it. And they're like, no,
you're you're assigned to the first lady. He's like, oh no.
(11:47):
He thinks it's a disaster, like he's going to be
going to you know, to tea parties and right, and
he thinks it's going to be terribly And he gets
Jackie Kennedy and it's of course the assignment of a
lifetime and their relationship in the book, as you know,
is just one of the best things in there. And
he was so kind to it. I never got to
meet him because we knew. We tried to, but they
said he's really old. I didn't realize how sick he was.
(12:10):
Sure right before the book came out he had to
okay all the stuff we were using. He was so
kind to us. But I highly recommend him his book
with Lisa mccubb and they were so kind to We
wouldn't be able to do the JFK Conspiracy without them.
And man that he died right as the book was
coming out, was was I mean, I'm glad we got
to share a story.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Hey, did we did we talk to you?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Had you announced Simone Biles the last time we talked
or has that been since we talked?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think it's since we talked, right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, it was after Yeah, we didn't announce it then
the well, I mean, that would have been nice that
morning to be able to say what it was. Yeah,
I know it would have been. That would have been
a really good thing of me.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, but I like that in the in the list
of the I AM books because we know about we
know obviously the Beatles are coming and that we talked about.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
But I like the I like the Simon bar.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, so obviously we you know, we did say I
Am Sally Ryde just came out a week ago, right.
The best part of that one was two female astronauts
like tweeted and put it on their Instagram, like real astronauts.
My wife was like, finally impressed. I'm like, that's what
impressed you, the two astronauts. She's like, yeah, that's it.
And then yeah, and the Beatles obviously impressed. Is every
you know, that's just awesome that the Beatles are great.
(13:22):
But what happened was is they asked me to do
someone Biles. It's probably you know, a couple of years
ago when everything happened and she stepped down and we
said her story's not done yet, and if she wins
the Gold, it's obviously you want the ending and the
finale to the story. But when I got into the book,
which obviously I've written now and Chris is drawn and
it's coming out soon, is it's actually and I didn't
(13:46):
know this when I was going in. It's our first
I AM book. That's all about mental health, right, and
and the books kind of you know, the books kind
of take on there's some mo like some books are
about inspirations, some are about creativity, some are about like
perspiration and basically you know how hard you can push
to get what you want. But we've never done a
book about mental health. It is fully about our struggle
(14:08):
with mental health and how open she's been about it,
and I honestly think for some people, especially for kids
who are going through it, it's going to be the
most important book we do. It blew me away. Her
story is so incredible, and I.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Know if you go to like, if you go to
Brad's side, you could pre order it now for when
it comes out.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Hey, last thing, Brad, last thing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Real quickly, I was dicking around on Instagram. I like
that you posted your Michigan College ID picture.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
God damn that does not look like you.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Can I tell you how. So I go to the
Michigan game last time. I'm here in ann Arbor and
the president of the university one of the regions comes
up to me and goes, look what the president university
texted me, And it's my ID. And it literally is
like and I'm like, the president university is passing around
my old idea. And I can't tell you how many
people said to me you were so handsome. But the
(15:03):
key thing in that sentence is the word so you
were so handsome? The past tense is a physical javelin
in my soul. And I don't know if you know,
but if you stay at the Graduate Hotel in ann Arbor,
the whole thing with the Graduate is they give you
like a room key from someone who attended the university,
and they picked my old ida and I'm now one
(15:24):
of the keys there. You know, it has taking me
this long to put my room key in that many
women pans like my whole life, But I love the
fact that every person like you were hot, And I'm like,
what were what? What the worst?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
By the way, And I don't know, maybe maybe I'm right,
maybe I'm wrong, but like you've posted pictures over the
years of like you in your in your family, and
sometimes it'll be old pictures of like when it was
you and your your sister and your mom and your dad,
and you look like you, like you're you look like
you now, Like I didn't know you when you were hot.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
The I just know you as now.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But you know what, when I look at the old
picture of you when you were hot photo, if I
slap a good mustache on that you do look like
your dad.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Uh, that kills me. You may be right. Everyone says
that look like my son now. But I think you
could be right about that, and that thanks for ruining
my day. I appreciate that. Can I tell you the best?
Can I just tell you the best story that I got?
Since the book came out as I got and this
happened yesterday, so I haven't been able to tell anyone,
but I got a last night. Is so one of
(16:37):
the stories that I tell in the book is, and
I love this story is when I used to work.
I spent four years working at the Hogendaws and the
Avon Tear Mall. And if you live in Florida, the
Avantear of Mall was chaos. And I remember one day
this woman comes up and she starts snapping her fingers
at me and she's like, you got to serve me.
And I'm like, ma'am, I'll be right with you. And
she says, no, no, no, you got to serve me now.
(16:59):
And I said, ma'am, you know what you're being rude.
I'm not serving you. And she says to me, screams
in my face, You're going to be working at this
miserable ice cream store for the rest of your miserable life.
And I said, ma'am, if I am working here for
the rest of my miserable life, you're still never getting
any ice cream. And she and basically I used to
tell that story, and that story's in Make Magic. It's
(17:20):
one of the stories and I talk about in the
book that like, I used to laugh at that story
and be like it didn't bother me, but it always
bothered me. It made me feel like you just said,
like I would be just like my dad who struggled
and just had a rough time at life, and you know,
was worried I was going to have this kind of
you know, rough existence. And obviously the whole part in
the book is you gotta make what you got to
make disappear as your fear, and that's the second magic trick.
(17:43):
But the best part of the story is yesterday last night,
as I get into ann Arbor, the guy who I
used to work with at Hagendas sends me a picture
of Make Magic and he's like, screw that woman, baby
the daughter back and I'm like, I've waited twce he five,
Like I was like, I know in the speech. I
was like, yes, put your fear away, and I would
(18:05):
thank that woman today. Like, but I love the fact
that my friend who scooped ice cream with me for
and this kid was so he was so poor, like
he had no money. He used to I gotta tell
you this, I've never told the story. I don't think
he used to wear a gold whale tail around his neck.
I used to wear a gold Superman charmer around my neck.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Wait of us time out.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
What is like a whale tail to me is like
a song that a woman wears where it's sticking up
out of her pants.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No, no, no, no, like a true actual like a
killer whale. Like he loved animals and he always wanted
so just to tell you how little women we were getting,
Like I had a gold Superman charm thinking that was cool,
and he had a gold killer whale tail on his neck.
No one was less successful dating than the two of us.
(18:53):
And he always wanted to train the dolphins at Sea World.
That was his dream. And so I hadn't seen him
for a year. This is such a good story. Had
I never tell you this? And so I lose touch
with him. My my very first book ever, The Tenth Justice,
comes out. I'm doing an event in Vero Beach, Florida.
There's no one there, nobody. It's like, there's ten people
(19:14):
in the whole place if I'm lucky. And he walks
in with a pint of Hoggin'd House ice cream, and
I'm like and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I said,
where do you live now? And he says, I live
in Orlando. I go, what do you do? And he goes,
I live in Orlando. I go, you train the dolphins
at SeaWorld, don't you? And he says I do. And
I go to He says, come to SeaWorld. And I
(19:34):
go to SeaWorld and it takes a while for me
to get there, but I go to Sea war with
my family, puts us in a special section, and I
figure he's the guy who like throws fish to the
dolphins when they do a trick and the show starts
and the dolphin shoots out of the water. He's standing
on the nose of the dolphin. I'm like, you're not
in the show. He's the star of the show. Now
I start balling, crying because this kid had nothing. He
(19:59):
was a single mom, he had we both worked at
fourteen years old. I thought we had nothing. He had
less than I did, and he was living his dream training.
He still trains the well as he was. You go
to the seat the Dolphin Show. Nick Wicket is the
man and he's who's last night brought the bitterness twenty
five years later and I was like, oh, Nick, thank you,
(20:19):
my friend, thank you for our revenge on that woman
who snapped in our faces. So yes, make magic and
be as bitter as you can be as Nick is
at hagin'ha.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Wait, hold on, Tyler, what picture is this? Tyler just
pulled up a picture that's Nick. There's Nick. Tyler just
pulled up a picture of Nick at Sea World.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I'm telling you you can. You can verify. So let
me tell you something. I'm gonna do another one. Tell
this is better. My best friend from elementary school is
John SHERMANI and I wrote a short story about him
and it was all about that. Brad Meltzer writes books today.
John Stremane is the main DJ oft Flash Dancers the
Strip Club in New York. And my son is, and
my son is like, no way is that true. Go
(21:00):
on LinkedIn. It is right there in his LinkedIn profile.
You can find it. And like you can verify all
my stories because now there's like this proof of it,
so you can find nick. You can find it at
the world.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And by the way, John is always like Jo always says,
come to you, got to come to the strip club.
I will hook you up. I'm like, dude, I'm not coming.
He's like, bring the book. He's like, bring the book
toward us a strip club. I'm like, I'm not coming
to this. So good. You can't make it up.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
All right, make magic.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
The Book of Inspiration you didn't know you needed is
out and available now.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Brad Meltzer, I appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Love you.
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