September 30, 2024 • 37 mins
In an effort to avoid a 30% property tax increase for Boston homeowners, Mayor Michelle Wu has proposed a three-year tax increase for commercial properties. Commercial property values have dropped, some stating, because of the increased work-at-home model. Greg Maynard, Executive Director of the Boston Policy Institute, says the city needs to find new sources of growth and joined Dan for discussion.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, you know, every once in a while you hear
about a story and you don't pay a lot of
attention to at least there's a lot of stuff that
goes across my desk to whatever you want to call it.
And this is one that has caught my eye in
the last few days and seems to be heating up
a little bit. And if you're a commercial property owner
(00:29):
in Boston, or if you're a residential property owner in Boston,
Mayor Woo is involved in a bit of a struggle
with the state legislature because she wants to increase the
commercial property tax rate here in Boston on a temporary basis,
but wants to increase it over the next few years
(00:51):
and for the next three years, as I understand it,
And she says, if she's not allowed to do that,
she needs permission of the state. To do that, she's
going to have to substantially raise the property taxes of
residents of Boston. So to try to kind of sort
all of this out, I'm delighted to welcome a guest
(01:16):
from the Boston Policy Institute. His name is Greg Maynard.
Greg Maynard. Welcome to Night's Side. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I'm great, Thank you so much for having me on, Dan,
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Greg is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute,
which is a relatively new policy institute. You've been around
about a year. Tell us how it came to be,
the Boston Policy Institute.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So we came together because we're trying to kind of
put numbers on some of these big questions that people have.
So one of the big things, the reason that we're
involved in this issue is we put out a report
back in February that actually quantified how much the loss
of value and offices was going to affect boston'udget. You know,
(02:00):
here in Massachusetts, cities and towns are really dependent on
property property values and on property tax to fund their
local budget, and so we knew that since remote work
has started and offices had started selling for significantly less
than they did before COVID, it was something that we
needed to look at, and so we actually put a
number on that and found that Boston faced a one
(02:21):
point four billion dollar shortfall in commercial property tax revenue
over the next five years.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, so let's put some context around that, Okay, before
the pandemic two thousand and nineteen, Boston's budget approximately how
much money does it take to run the city of Boston.
Just give me around for let's figure out how it
(02:49):
breaks out between commercial and residential.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, so like so, for instance, this year, Boston's budget
is four point six billion dollars, and out of that,
seventy five percent of it is funded from property taxes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And then how does the property tax split in terms
of if again, if you you said Boston the budget
is five point six is that the number four point
six billion dollars? And that, by the way, compares when
you think about the state budget is about fifty eight
(03:22):
billion dollars. So Boston is a little less than ten
percent of the state budget. But Boston also, you know,
during the day it's it's it's population explodes. I think
it probably doubles. But let's just deal We'll deal with
the four point six billion. Okay, So seventy five percent
(03:44):
of that has to come from some form of real
estate taxes, and seventy five percent of that I'm just
trying to do something in my head here is going
to be about three point one billion. If I'm if
I'm doing the math correctly, How does that seventy five
percent breakdown currently between so how did it commercial and residential?
(04:09):
So right now it's but like percentages percentages, right, so.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
It's about sixty forty between commercial properties pay sixty percent
of the taxes and residents pay forty percent.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, So now is that currently is that what it
traditionally had been?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That is what it is right now, but it is
likely to start to change because of the falls and
office values.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay, So so prior budgets have not really reflected the
decrease in office values.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, because it's you know, property property values are something
that take a really long long time to like go
up and go go down. Right, We have propped you, and.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think they they re evaluate them on like a
three year cycle or something like that. Yeah, it's longer, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, and and people are able to challenge them. But
a lot of it is based, especially for commercial properties,
it's based on occupancy rates and sales price and different
kinds of things, and all of that takes a long
time to kind of like catch up to. Like, so
you know, a building might not be worth that much
money right now, but if it hasn't sold yet, then
we don't really know how much money it's worth, and
(05:19):
it's going to keep on paying its previous taxes.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, So essentially, what I'm hearing you say is that
reality is about to strike here in Boston. So, yes,
what do you think? What do you think if nothing
is done? What will the commercial tax rate instead of
(05:44):
being sixty percent if the value of commercial property has decreased.
How big a decreased will that be? In terms of
what percentage of the of the budget will will commercial
property fund? If it doesn't fund sixty percent of you know,
the three point one billion, how low could.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
That it's gonna So the big, the big problem Boston
has is that Boston taxes commercial real estate at one
hundred and seventy five percent the rate of residential real estate.
And so that's that's a lot to understate law. But
what that means is that residential property in Boston makes
up about two thirds of the value of all of
(06:25):
the property in Boston, but they only pay forty percent
of the taxes. Commercial property makes up only about a
third of the value, but they pay sixty percent of
the taxes. And so from all the.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Crimes, commercial properties are carrying a heavier lift a heavier
low than residential, which which is fine, you know, as
long as it's it's not overly onerous, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And the problem that Boston faces here is, you know,
property taxes are an extremely durable like way to raise money,
like they almost never never change. But because of this
really unique thing of work from home and the collapse
and office values that it has brought on, it means
that Boston's budget is kind of uniquely vulnerable to this
(07:10):
kind of problem.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and the other and you've explained it very well, Greg,
and I appreciate the clarity of your explanation. The other
thing which is under underlying cause over which no one
has any control. We have a lot of schools, universities, churches, hospitals, museums,
baseball parks, all of which probably don't pay they get
(07:38):
they get a break. A lot of the schools simply
make a donation or a contribution in lieu of taxes,
and those contributions never are even close to what they
would pay if they were taxed at the regular tax rate.
Am I correct on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Now, the pilots don't add up to one hundred percent
of the sluice value.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, and the fact that the matter is that Boston
is a is a relatively small city geographically have great neighborhoods.
But now the mayor wants to, if I'm wrong here,
tell me take this burden, this tax burden, and even
(08:23):
increase it on commercial properties at a time when the
value of those commercial properties is depressed.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, that's that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And of course the commercial properties are very concerned about this.
The mayor is saying, Hey, if I don't increase how
much the commercial properties have to pay, they're already paying
you know, quote unquote more than their fair share. I
hate that term because it's such an amorphous term, the
(08:58):
mayor says, and she may have to send out tax
bills to residential homeowners which will show a dramatic increase
in their real estate taxes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, so that's true. But I think the thing that's
going unsaid here, and what the mayor's talking about with
these tax increases, is that residents in Boston are going
to see these their taxes go up substantially, whether or
not the mayor's bill that's before the State House right
now passes. Right. So, when she originally proposed it was
for five years. She's now negotiated it down to three.
(09:34):
No matter how long it is. At the end of it,
residential taxes are going to be at the same like
price per thousand that they were going to be. And
so what she's proposing is like a very very short
term solution to what looks like it's going to be
a very long term problem here in Boston.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So, okay, when we get back, I want to ask
you if if you want to venture into these choppy waters,
you can. But it seems to me that the timing
of all of this could not be worse for the
mayor because she's up for reelection next year, and I
wonder if this is just a dilemma that she finds
(10:18):
herself in over which she has really no control, or
if she's trying to make sure that the damage that
would be done is minimal to her politically. And we'll
get into some of that with you when we come back.
If you want to ask a question of someone who
knows probably more about this than I do, Greg Maynard.
(10:43):
He is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute.
I really appreciate the clarity of your explanations, and I'm
hoping that some of our Boston residents or others. Commercial
folks may join the conversation six seven ten thirty six
one seven nine three one ten thirty. My name is
(11:03):
Dan Ray. This is Nightside. We try to pick different topics.
This is one that does have an impact on the
city in which all of us, if we don't physically
live in Boston, we are obviously affected by what happens
in Boston because it is the capital city not only
of Massachusetts, but also it's the hub well it's the
capital city of New England, and we like to think
(11:25):
of it as the hub of the world. Back on
Nightside with my guest, Greg Maynard of the Boston Polosy Institute,
right after a couple of messages.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So many mayors in Boston over the years have fell
have faced these dilemmas, how do you raise taxes fairly?
And I'm hoping that that is what Mayor Wu is
planning on doing or trying trying to do right now.
But again, Greg, without getting you into some controversy here,
(12:07):
this is a tough time for Mayor Wu. I mean,
she is going to face reelection next year. How much
of a factor do you think that is in her
thoughts or do you think she would just put that
aside and just deal with what's going on.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So the problem that the Mary is facing is pretty unique,
and so like, I don't I don't envy, I don't
envy the position that she's that she's in the city
has not faced all of these problems happening at the
same time, with falling commercial values and rising home values
and the prospect that commercial values are just going to
(12:47):
keep on following. So you know, it's something that is
going to require like a lot of creative thinking and
not something where we can kind of rummage around in
the past and find solutions that have worked for you know,
Mayor Menino or Mayor White or mayor Collins.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, this is a dilemma because not only do you
have these sort of economic forces at work, but as
I understand it, today is the day that a lot
of the COVID relief money ended. As a matter of fact,
teachers in Boston and Lynn today were out on the
(13:26):
picket line. I believe the teachers union needs a new
contract in Boston, and they were They're concerned in Lynn
about an expansion of a charter school program. And one
of the reasons that there was a lot of money
that came slashing up to Massachusetts and to other states
in the wake of COVID, but that money now is
(13:47):
dried up. So's it's not as if the federal government,
which is thirty five to thirty six trillion dollars in debt,
can start writing checks to every major city. This is really,
I hate to put it like this, Greg, but a
perfect storm for the city of Boston and probably some
other cities around the country as well.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It really is a perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's really.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
The thing that is is uniquely bad for Boston is
because it's so property tax dependent. It's really badly impacted
by this, and programs that work in other cities to
promote growth and to promote things that will generate more
revenue for the city just won't work here the same way.
Like in New York City, for instance, the city collects
(14:34):
its own sales tax, so the city can afford to
give out tax breaks to building build new apartments because
everyone who lives in those apartments, they pay city income tax,
they pay city sales tax, and so they contribute to
the city's budget, even if they're building is not paying
full boat property tax. But in Boston, the city doesn't
have access to any of that revenue, and so the
(14:55):
only way for the city to grow its budget is
to have property be worth more right either through regular
valuation rises or by building new buildings.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah. I think that the last thing that any Boston mayor,
particularly one who is about to embark on a re
election year, would want to do would be tried to
get a city income tax employment tax through and I
assume that Mayor will would have to get permission from
that and Beacon Hill as well. Am I Am I
(15:26):
right or wrong on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Exactly in Massachusetts doesn't have you know, we don't have
a history of letting towns and cities vote to their
own taxes, right like we have the Proposition two and
a half rules for a reason.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah. So the mayor apparently has some support in the
state House of Representatives, or at least has lent her
a sympathetic year, but she's not at this point, I think,
convinced the state Senate to provide that that flexibility. And
(16:01):
apparently she had a meeting last week with the Senate
President Karen Spilka, And I'm not sure how well it went,
but certainly it didn't look like they had reached some
grand deal.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, it's not clear how it's how it's going to work.
And I think you know the other thing here, right,
is the mayor's compromise with the House reduced the program
from being five years long to three years long. It
reduced the amount of taxes they're going to be able
to raise in the percentages, and it did some carve
outs for some small small businesses. So it's also like
(16:37):
the temporary fix that she's proposing was made much more
temporary by the compromise she struck with the state House.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Is there enough money in the universities, the hospitals, the churches,
the museums that the mayor could aggressively go to all
of those institutions and saying, hey, I know that you're
paying an amount in lieu of taxes, but the amount
that you're paying is not nearly enough and we all
(17:09):
need to step it up. Is that possible or is
that in your opinion and effort that other mayors have
made without have tried to make without success.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, other you're like you said it right, like other
other mayors haven't haven't had a lot of success with that.
And the administration has made really clear over the spring
when they were debating about the budget with the Chamber
of Commerce and with the Boston Municipal Research Bureau, the
administration made it really clear that they intended to raise taxes,
property taxes to the to the levee, so as much
(17:42):
as they're allowed to under the under the law, every
single every single year. Right like other cities and towns
across Massachusetts don't always raise their taxes to the levee.
In Boston, they they do. And so, you know, kind
of regardless of what happens with Pilot these taxes, the
administration has said, these taxes are going to go up.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What ware does this story end? In your opinion, Gregular
or is it just too early to speculate.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, I think that the story of this tax
proposal is up to you know, our state, our state legislators.
I think in terms of the you know, what's going
on with commercial real estate, I think it's still it's
probably still too early to tell. I think the big
thing that we haven't seen really be discussed yet, which
I've been disappointed by is that the city needs to
(18:33):
find a new source of growth.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We've built an awful lot of office towers over the
last twenty years, we built the whole Seaport district, and
our city has a housing crisis, right, Boston needs a
lot more homes than we have right right now. So
it seems like building a lot of houses could fill
fill some of that some of that gap. But we
haven't seen any really big, ambitious plans to build the
(18:56):
number of homes that you need to plug that kind
of a gap in the budget.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, they built a lot of condos down in the Seaport,
and they also built a lot of great restaurants. So
I don't know if the city benefits from that or not.
I guess not, but they certainly should benefit from the
development of condominiums, high end condominiums down down in the
Seaport district then and in other parts of the city. Look,
I really appreciate it, Greg, This you you simplified in
(19:24):
a good way complicated issue. Greg Mayor, the executive director
of the Boston Policy Institute. I'd like to keep in
touch with you and have you back periodically if that's
okay with you.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Oh, I would love to come on. Dan, thank you
so much for having me on. And I hope people
learn learned a little bit about this, this big crisis.
It's going to be going to be with us for
the next several years.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Ago. So yeah, and this is the first time we
touched it, and you did explain it, I thought very well.
Appreciate the time tonight, Greg, and we'll talk again when
we get back after the news. At the bottom of
the hour, I'd like to open it up and get
your impressions as to what the city of Boston can do. Now. Look,
if you're a resident of Boston, this is going to
(20:07):
affect you personally. It's going to affect your residential real
estate taxes. If you rent in Boston, the owner of
the building, whether it's a corporation or an individual, will
certainly pass through the increases that they're asked to pay.
If you are in commercial development. If it seems to
(20:28):
me that there's no good solution here, uh, And I
don't know that any mayor of Boston is going to
cut any program. I do know that in the schools
we have an ever decreasing school population and an ever
increasing school budget. I don't know how you reconcile those
so love to get your ideas and your thoughts. Six one, seven, two, five,
(20:51):
four ten thirty, triple eight nine two nine ten thirty
or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I
will say this, the one thing we have a lot
of in Boston bicycle lanes. Bicycle lanes have not generated
a lot of revenue, but we have a lot of
bicycle lanes. And look, the mayor's face is going to
be facing a tough re election campaign, and the weaker
(21:13):
that she might seem, the more likely that some challengers
will decide to take a shot. Join the conversation. You
can take a shot. Give us a call here on
Nightside back right after this.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It's Night Side with Dany, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Now, all of us pay a lot of taxes. I
think all of us realize that you pay federal taxes,
if you're working, you pay Social Security taxes, you pay
state taxes. In some cities. In New York City there's
a city tax. So if you live in New York City,
you pay a city tax, and it can run into
a lot of money. In Boston, it's a relatively small
geographic area. It is somewhat limited Boston cannot expand, Okay,
(21:58):
but it can. He needs to take more and more
costs to incur more and more costs, and no one
looks at cuts because that's going to cause political problems.
But I think Mayor Wolf's gonna have some political problems
with the with their election year in terms of the taxes.
Let's go too. Going to start it off with Brian
(22:21):
in Hyde Park. Brian, great, do we have a first
caller tonight from hype from Boston?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Go ahead, Brian, Hey, Dan Hawaii A long time?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Oh yeah, Well I gotta do is call any night.
I'm always here for you.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Go ahead, I pick and choose, but nice to hear you.
But well, I think in my conversations before you know
my background and my thoughts on this. And I called
in when the Sulim was on a few weeks back.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No, don't don't hesit, Brian, I have good memory, but
maybe some of our listeners if you want to preface
your remarks with a perspective, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Well it's uh, it's just been a long time coming.
I think Mayowel has absolutely mismanaged the city financially. Uh,
during COVID, coming out of COVID. They knew the uh,
the occupation rate in the in the in the city
was absolutely down. And you know, now everybody's coming back
(23:20):
to work. But in the meantime, that's tax money revenue
lost to all the local businesses and whatnot in the
property taxes. And I think it goes back to what
many walls to explained for this. Also because he just
brother stamps every project in the city. There isn't a
green space left in the city and it's a shame.
(23:41):
But I think her management of the city, between the homelessness,
the drug problem, math and casts and uh, the infrastructure,
that there isn't a city there.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Are there no there are green spaces left in the city.
When you think about it, you have the Boston Common,
you have the Public Garden, you have the Rose Kennedy
green Way, you have you know what they call the end.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, when you add forty fifty thousand residents to the
to South Boston alone, Dan, it's just it's incredible. Yes,
there are attacks is coming off the condominiums and whatnot,
but it's just uh, oyah, the.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Let's let's let's be honest. In terms of the seaport
development that was I think really Mayor Menino more so.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Than it was it was. And that's part of my
opinion is I think Menino was the last one that
took the the actual citizens of the city seriously and
listened to them, and he drove around the city. He
rode on the streets, he walked the sidewalks, and I
mean what he did for the infrastructure that every baseball
(24:51):
diamond in the city had Georgia clay. You know, it
was just beautiful. It was well, well, rob when you
take eight thousand, eight million dollars out of cold relief funds,
which she is absolutely destroyed and just wasted, and spend
it on three bus routes for four years from one
section in the city while the guy out in Adam's
(25:14):
Mass can't even get a bus and just throws that away.
And now the financial crisis comes to the city is
going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
My opinion, Well, I don't disagree with the thought that
man Wu is going to be facing a crisis. She
obviously realizes that she wouldn't be trotting up to the
state House looking for some help from the state legislature.
But what do you if I could ask you, are
you a homeowner in High Park Brian, No, I am
(25:48):
Are you a renter? Yes? Okay, So whatever increase your
landlord receives, you know that he's going to pass that
on to you. You you want to the other tenants. Okay, unfair,
but that's the way, that's the way of the world works.
How much are you paying now for your for your
(26:11):
your your apartment in Hype.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Park twenty that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Is that a one bedroom or two bedrooms?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
One bedroom, one bedroom?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So it's never going to be lower and eventually it's
going to get higher. And you blame the mayor, I guess,
or a succession.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I think she's just throwing the money away that could
have spent on so many other things that could have
been spent on Long Island transportation to Long Island without
the bridge. But throwing eight million dollars on three bus
roads that go maybe four miles for three years. It
blows me away. Well, we have so many other things
(26:55):
done in the city, and I think, I honestly believe
she she may not even run some dayre again, I
really know she's having a child soon. I think she
just she's in over ahead me presently.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, No, I just I understand that point of view.
I don't see any signs that she's not that she's
not running for reelection. If she wasn't running for reelection,
she wouldn't be drotting after the State House, in my opinion.
But we'll see, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know, a year ago it looked like probably would
be an easy re election. Who who knows. We'll have
to We'll have to see. We got to get through
the presidential election first, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I'll throw that's Flynn. I hope that Flynn jumps in.
I hope he's listening. And I think he's got the
air of the city right now.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, well, he does listen a lot, that's for sure.
I'm sure he'll be happy to hear what you have
to say. Brian and hyprocts. Brian appreciate, Jim good nuck,
good nuck. Okay, I got Tom and Lean coming up
on the other side of good room for you. Uh,
particularly if your Boston resident, are you happy at this point?
You might get unhappy very soon. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(27:58):
Not looking to oil your evening, but this is I
think a financial fiscal reality that Boston is going to
have to face, and it's just not the political leaders
who face that, it's the people who face it. And
if you're a Boston homeowner, feel free. I hope you've
been listening and you understand what I try to do
(28:18):
here on Nightside is layout problems so that we try
to stay a little ahead of the curve. And I
know the focus right now is on the presidential election,
which we will talk about later on tonight. I understand that,
but I also think that it's important to again, when
you're talking about problems, the closest to home that the
(28:39):
problem is, the more severely people will feel it. And
you may really feel it in your real estate taxes
in Boston next year, unless the mayor is somehow able
to pull a miraculous rabbit out of the hat. Six
Mon's seven two, five, four, ten thirty six months seven nine,
three one, ten thirty. If you're not interested in this topic,
that's fine. We're going to change topics at ten o'clock anyway,
(29:03):
but I'd love to get a couple more of you
in between now and ten. Coming back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Now, back to Dan ray Line from the Window World,
Light Side Studios on wb Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You know, I have often said that your most important
votes are in local elections. And the reason's pretty simple.
When you vote in a presidential election to one of
about one hundred and seventy million people who will vote,
So do the math, you're one over one hundred and
seventy million. In terms of impact, that's infinitesimal. It's important,
but it's infinitesimal. You're voting in a state wide election, man,
(29:36):
there's probably three million people going to vote in a
big state wide election, or something two million people, whatever
the number is. But when you talk about your local
whether it's a city mayor's election or a town a
selectman's election, select person's election, those are votes where you
have a greater impact. That's what we're talking about tonight.
Let me go to Tom in Lynn. Hey, Tom, welcome
(29:57):
back to Nightside. How are you?
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I can't how's it going? Yeah? Yeah, A tough topic,
you know, Uh, I guess I guess you get on
was pretty good. You know, I'm not a numbers guy,
but I was. I was kind of following them, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, Well, numbers can Numbers can be overwhelming, particularly in
the radio. But the fact of the matter is that
every major city in New England and certainly in Massachusetts,
is going to be in trouble. You live in Lynn.
I saw today that the teachers are out, not on strike,
but they were picketing and demonstrating against the expansion of
a charter school. Yeah, I mean later on tonight there's
(30:36):
supposed to be a long maybe a longshoreman strike. That
is no effect everybody. Every Yeah, it's going to affect
the cost of goods and services. And you know, it
just seems that that we can't we can't catch a break.
What's your thought on this again, You're in lind in Boston.
What's going on up there?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Well, it's Lynn, Boston State, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
You know.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
You're talking about the budget for the state fifty eight billion,
and then the butt of City of Boston just shi
a five billion. And I'm like, you know, if I
have some kind of financial distress in my household, I
can do two things. I can work more, which I
don't want to do, or I can spend less. Now
that the risk of sound and counterintuitive. We haven't heard
(31:20):
anybody talking about spending less. It's just get how do
we get more money out of people? More money, more money, Dan,
listen to this. We talked a lot of last month
or so about you know, the lower in the federal
rate fifty basis points, and we're talking about inflation. Gallon
of gas is a big part of a lot of
people's budget, right, So what's the federal tax on a
(31:43):
gallon of gas?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, the federal tax on a gallon of gas, I
believe is eighteen cents across the board.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Very good, Very good. No, what about the state? How
much of state get on a gallant gas?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That depends, of course from state to state, So in
massive sets, I believe it's somewhere around twenty six twenty
seven cents a gallon.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, you're good.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
I was incredulous, so I had to look it up
three times. It's like twenty four cents.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You know. It's like they don't get enough the states.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
In Pennsylvania, it's worse. In California.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
It's worse California.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I mean they get your come you know the
old saying, they get you coming and going. Uh, if
you work and you make money, you you never take
home all your money. The feds take some of it.
The state takes some of it, so screwty takes a
lot of it. At least what's so security, You're getting
some theoretically money back.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
At some point you hope you hope this I'm repeating myself,
But when don't we gonna start talking about spending less.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Unfortunately, most politicians don't want to talk about that because
their constituents or people. You have you have half You're
not half the country, but you have a You got
what is it, you know, eighty billion people or whatever
who are the workforce or whatever the number is who
are actually employed. Then you have people who are not
(33:07):
in the workforce. You have people older people and social security,
they've earned their never earned their retirement. But then you
have a lot of people who have always been relying
on government, relying on government, and they never seem very
really do you hear of a success story of someone
getting off the public dole?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And actually every once in a while there you have
those exceptions. But what happens is it becomes easy. You know,
I don't have to work, I get lost covered. And
the Democrats believe that the more that they give to people,
the more loyal those people will be to the Democratic party,
which hence keeps them in power.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And that's exactly and then made you throw the whole
illegal immigrants ninth sense into the mix and su an
other wild card. You know, they can't even keep track
of that.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah. Those there were some numbers that came out last
week which is shocking the number of people who they
believe are murderers and rapists who have been allowed to
charge to this country. It's you, whether you're a Democrat
or a Republican. You deserve the right to be able
to sleep in your bed at night and feel a
modicum of safety. But there's a lot of people now
(34:25):
who live in urban areas who gunshots in their neighborhood
are gunshots in their street corner. It's not an uncommon sound.
And I don't know. I don't know how you fix it.
I think it may be out of you know, the
Democrats have one set of solutions, the Republicans have another
set of solutions. There's not much mixture. The Democrats want
(34:48):
will get rid of the guns. I don't know if
you can get rid of the guns. The government said
let's have more police. You know that that sounds attractive,
and I'm not sure that's the answer either, it's they're
all the politicians are all functioning for one thing, to
get reelected.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
What I say about me is, Dann, I know, I
know all the problems, but I don't. I just can't
figure out any answers.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
You know, well, you know all the problems because all
the problems probably exist in your neighborhood. And I suspect
that if some politicians took the time to talk to
people like you, that they could probably get some advice
from you. I mean, most of these politicians they live
in a very rarefied atmosphere there. They're they're flying down
(35:37):
from Washington, or they're traveling around the country, and it's
almost as if they think we work for them, when
the truth is they're supposed to work for us.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Oh my god, don't even Dan, don't even don't even
go there. My neighborhood, we are a substantial, serious drug problem.
I called the war councilor and uh he he.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Swapped me off.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He says, we'll call the police. And I'm like, yeah,
thanks a lot, you know, right, yeah, sure, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
As if you, first of all, if you were if
you were a normal person, you obviously know you'll call
the police. But at the same time, how about him
as a ward counselor making sure there's more police in
your neighborhood to get the drug dealers out of your neighborhood.
That's his job, not your job.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
But my.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Best friend for thirty years was a war counselor and
Lynn and they have a lot more Uh what's.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
The word juice influence?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Influence?
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Yeah, that to be an influence than if I call
the police or if I call my wak countsel. He calls,
he says, yeah, yeah, okay, we'll get right on now,
you know, and I'm talking too much. I'm gonna go
a little.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thanks, I'll let you run. Thomas always who appreciate your call.
I love your passion. Thank you, my friend, Thank you
very much. We get back. We're going to talk about
another development which I noticed today. And again we try
to stay ahead of stuff here, but that's what Okay,
in California they have just legalized cannabis cafes. How long
before we have cannabis cafes in Massachusetts. I'm willing to
(37:10):
ment it's going to be a lot sooner than you expect.
We'll be back right after the ten o'clock news on nightside,
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, you know, every once in a while you hear
about a story and you don't pay a lot of
attention to at least there's a lot of stuff that
goes across my desk to whatever you want to call it.
And this is one that has caught my eye in
the last few days and seems to be heating up
a little bit. And if you're a commercial property owner
(00:29):
in Boston, or if you're a residential property owner in Boston,
Mayor Woo is involved in a bit of a struggle
with the state legislature because she wants to increase the
commercial property tax rate here in Boston on a temporary basis,
but wants to increase it over the next few years
(00:51):
and for the next three years, as I understand it,
And she says, if she's not allowed to do that,
she needs permission of the state. To do that, she's
going to have to substantially raise the property taxes of
residents of Boston. So to try to kind of sort
all of this out, I'm delighted to welcome a guest
(01:16):
from the Boston Policy Institute. His name is Greg Maynard.
Greg Maynard. Welcome to Night's Side. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I'm great, Thank you so much for having me on, Dan,
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Greg is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute,
which is a relatively new policy institute. You've been around
about a year. Tell us how it came to be,
the Boston Policy Institute.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So we came together because we're trying to kind of
put numbers on some of these big questions that people have.
So one of the big things, the reason that we're
involved in this issue is we put out a report
back in February that actually quantified how much the loss
of value and offices was going to affect boston'udget. You know,
(02:00):
here in Massachusetts, cities and towns are really dependent on
property property values and on property tax to fund their
local budget, and so we knew that since remote work
has started and offices had started selling for significantly less
than they did before COVID, it was something that we
needed to look at, and so we actually put a
number on that and found that Boston faced a one
(02:21):
point four billion dollar shortfall in commercial property tax revenue
over the next five years.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, so let's put some context around that, Okay, before
the pandemic two thousand and nineteen, Boston's budget approximately how
much money does it take to run the city of Boston.
Just give me around for let's figure out how it
(02:49):
breaks out between commercial and residential.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, so like so, for instance, this year, Boston's budget
is four point six billion dollars, and out of that,
seventy five percent of it is funded from property taxes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And then how does the property tax split in terms
of if again, if you you said Boston the budget
is five point six is that the number four point
six billion dollars? And that, by the way, compares when
you think about the state budget is about fifty eight
(03:22):
billion dollars. So Boston is a little less than ten
percent of the state budget. But Boston also, you know,
during the day it's it's it's population explodes. I think
it probably doubles. But let's just deal We'll deal with
the four point six billion. Okay, So seventy five percent
(03:44):
of that has to come from some form of real
estate taxes, and seventy five percent of that I'm just
trying to do something in my head here is going
to be about three point one billion. If I'm if
I'm doing the math correctly, How does that seventy five
percent breakdown currently between so how did it commercial and residential?
(04:09):
So right now it's but like percentages percentages, right, so.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
It's about sixty forty between commercial properties pay sixty percent
of the taxes and residents pay forty percent.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, So now is that currently is that what it
traditionally had been?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That is what it is right now, but it is
likely to start to change because of the falls and
office values.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay, So so prior budgets have not really reflected the
decrease in office values.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, because it's you know, property property values are something
that take a really long long time to like go
up and go go down. Right, We have propped you, and.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think they they re evaluate them on like a
three year cycle or something like that. Yeah, it's longer, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, and and people are able to challenge them. But
a lot of it is based, especially for commercial properties,
it's based on occupancy rates and sales price and different
kinds of things, and all of that takes a long
time to kind of like catch up to. Like, so
you know, a building might not be worth that much
money right now, but if it hasn't sold yet, then
we don't really know how much money it's worth, and
(05:19):
it's going to keep on paying its previous taxes.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, So essentially, what I'm hearing you say is that
reality is about to strike here in Boston. So, yes,
what do you think? What do you think if nothing
is done? What will the commercial tax rate instead of
(05:44):
being sixty percent if the value of commercial property has decreased.
How big a decreased will that be? In terms of
what percentage of the of the budget will will commercial
property fund? If it doesn't fund sixty percent of you know,
the three point one billion, how low could.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
That it's gonna So the big, the big problem Boston
has is that Boston taxes commercial real estate at one
hundred and seventy five percent the rate of residential real estate.
And so that's that's a lot to understate law. But
what that means is that residential property in Boston makes
up about two thirds of the value of all of
(06:25):
the property in Boston, but they only pay forty percent
of the taxes. Commercial property makes up only about a
third of the value, but they pay sixty percent of
the taxes. And so from all the.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Crimes, commercial properties are carrying a heavier lift a heavier
low than residential, which which is fine, you know, as
long as it's it's not overly onerous, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And the problem that Boston faces here is, you know,
property taxes are an extremely durable like way to raise money,
like they almost never never change. But because of this
really unique thing of work from home and the collapse
and office values that it has brought on, it means
that Boston's budget is kind of uniquely vulnerable to this
(07:10):
kind of problem.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and the other and you've explained it very well, Greg,
and I appreciate the clarity of your explanation. The other
thing which is under underlying cause over which no one
has any control. We have a lot of schools, universities, churches, hospitals, museums,
baseball parks, all of which probably don't pay they get
(07:38):
they get a break. A lot of the schools simply
make a donation or a contribution in lieu of taxes,
and those contributions never are even close to what they
would pay if they were taxed at the regular tax rate.
Am I correct on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Now, the pilots don't add up to one hundred percent
of the sluice value.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, and the fact that the matter is that Boston
is a is a relatively small city geographically have great neighborhoods.
But now the mayor wants to, if I'm wrong here,
tell me take this burden, this tax burden, and even
(08:23):
increase it on commercial properties at a time when the
value of those commercial properties is depressed.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, that's that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And of course the commercial properties are very concerned about this.
The mayor is saying, Hey, if I don't increase how
much the commercial properties have to pay, they're already paying
you know, quote unquote more than their fair share. I
hate that term because it's such an amorphous term, the
(08:58):
mayor says, and she may have to send out tax
bills to residential homeowners which will show a dramatic increase
in their real estate taxes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, so that's true. But I think the thing that's
going unsaid here, and what the mayor's talking about with
these tax increases, is that residents in Boston are going
to see these their taxes go up substantially, whether or
not the mayor's bill that's before the State House right
now passes. Right. So, when she originally proposed it was
for five years. She's now negotiated it down to three.
(09:34):
No matter how long it is. At the end of it,
residential taxes are going to be at the same like
price per thousand that they were going to be. And
so what she's proposing is like a very very short
term solution to what looks like it's going to be
a very long term problem here in Boston.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So, okay, when we get back, I want to ask
you if if you want to venture into these choppy waters,
you can. But it seems to me that the timing
of all of this could not be worse for the
mayor because she's up for reelection next year, and I
wonder if this is just a dilemma that she finds
(10:18):
herself in over which she has really no control, or
if she's trying to make sure that the damage that
would be done is minimal to her politically. And we'll
get into some of that with you when we come back.
If you want to ask a question of someone who
knows probably more about this than I do, Greg Maynard.
(10:43):
He is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute.
I really appreciate the clarity of your explanations, and I'm
hoping that some of our Boston residents or others. Commercial
folks may join the conversation six seven ten thirty six
one seven nine three one ten thirty. My name is
(11:03):
Dan Ray. This is Nightside. We try to pick different topics.
This is one that does have an impact on the
city in which all of us, if we don't physically
live in Boston, we are obviously affected by what happens
in Boston because it is the capital city not only
of Massachusetts, but also it's the hub well it's the
capital city of New England, and we like to think
(11:25):
of it as the hub of the world. Back on
Nightside with my guest, Greg Maynard of the Boston Polosy Institute,
right after a couple of messages.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So many mayors in Boston over the years have fell
have faced these dilemmas, how do you raise taxes fairly?
And I'm hoping that that is what Mayor Wu is
planning on doing or trying trying to do right now.
But again, Greg, without getting you into some controversy here,
(12:07):
this is a tough time for Mayor Wu. I mean,
she is going to face reelection next year. How much
of a factor do you think that is in her
thoughts or do you think she would just put that
aside and just deal with what's going on.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So the problem that the Mary is facing is pretty unique,
and so like, I don't I don't envy, I don't
envy the position that she's that she's in the city
has not faced all of these problems happening at the
same time, with falling commercial values and rising home values
and the prospect that commercial values are just going to
(12:47):
keep on following. So you know, it's something that is
going to require like a lot of creative thinking and
not something where we can kind of rummage around in
the past and find solutions that have worked for you know,
Mayor Menino or Mayor White or mayor Collins.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, this is a dilemma because not only do you
have these sort of economic forces at work, but as
I understand it, today is the day that a lot
of the COVID relief money ended. As a matter of fact,
teachers in Boston and Lynn today were out on the
(13:26):
picket line. I believe the teachers union needs a new
contract in Boston, and they were They're concerned in Lynn
about an expansion of a charter school program. And one
of the reasons that there was a lot of money
that came slashing up to Massachusetts and to other states
in the wake of COVID, but that money now is
(13:47):
dried up. So's it's not as if the federal government,
which is thirty five to thirty six trillion dollars in debt,
can start writing checks to every major city. This is really,
I hate to put it like this, Greg, but a
perfect storm for the city of Boston and probably some
other cities around the country as well.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It really is a perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's really.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
The thing that is is uniquely bad for Boston is
because it's so property tax dependent. It's really badly impacted
by this, and programs that work in other cities to
promote growth and to promote things that will generate more
revenue for the city just won't work here the same way.
Like in New York City, for instance, the city collects
(14:34):
its own sales tax, so the city can afford to
give out tax breaks to building build new apartments because
everyone who lives in those apartments, they pay city income tax,
they pay city sales tax, and so they contribute to
the city's budget, even if they're building is not paying
full boat property tax. But in Boston, the city doesn't
have access to any of that revenue, and so the
(14:55):
only way for the city to grow its budget is
to have property be worth more right either through regular
valuation rises or by building new buildings.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah. I think that the last thing that any Boston mayor,
particularly one who is about to embark on a re
election year, would want to do would be tried to
get a city income tax employment tax through and I
assume that Mayor will would have to get permission from
that and Beacon Hill as well. Am I Am I
(15:26):
right or wrong on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Exactly in Massachusetts doesn't have you know, we don't have
a history of letting towns and cities vote to their
own taxes, right like we have the Proposition two and
a half rules for a reason.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah. So the mayor apparently has some support in the
state House of Representatives, or at least has lent her
a sympathetic year, but she's not at this point, I think,
convinced the state Senate to provide that that flexibility. And
(16:01):
apparently she had a meeting last week with the Senate
President Karen Spilka, And I'm not sure how well it went,
but certainly it didn't look like they had reached some
grand deal.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, it's not clear how it's how it's going to work.
And I think you know the other thing here, right,
is the mayor's compromise with the House reduced the program
from being five years long to three years long. It
reduced the amount of taxes they're going to be able
to raise in the percentages, and it did some carve
outs for some small small businesses. So it's also like
(16:37):
the temporary fix that she's proposing was made much more
temporary by the compromise she struck with the state House.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Is there enough money in the universities, the hospitals, the churches,
the museums that the mayor could aggressively go to all
of those institutions and saying, hey, I know that you're
paying an amount in lieu of taxes, but the amount
that you're paying is not nearly enough and we all
(17:09):
need to step it up. Is that possible or is
that in your opinion and effort that other mayors have
made without have tried to make without success.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, other you're like you said it right, like other
other mayors haven't haven't had a lot of success with that.
And the administration has made really clear over the spring
when they were debating about the budget with the Chamber
of Commerce and with the Boston Municipal Research Bureau, the
administration made it really clear that they intended to raise taxes,
property taxes to the to the levee, so as much
(17:42):
as they're allowed to under the under the law, every
single every single year. Right like other cities and towns
across Massachusetts don't always raise their taxes to the levee.
In Boston, they they do. And so, you know, kind
of regardless of what happens with Pilot these taxes, the
administration has said, these taxes are going to go up.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What ware does this story end? In your opinion, Gregular
or is it just too early to speculate.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, I think that the story of this tax
proposal is up to you know, our state, our state legislators.
I think in terms of the you know, what's going
on with commercial real estate, I think it's still it's
probably still too early to tell. I think the big
thing that we haven't seen really be discussed yet, which
I've been disappointed by is that the city needs to
(18:33):
find a new source of growth.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We've built an awful lot of office towers over the
last twenty years, we built the whole Seaport district, and
our city has a housing crisis, right, Boston needs a
lot more homes than we have right right now. So
it seems like building a lot of houses could fill
fill some of that some of that gap. But we
haven't seen any really big, ambitious plans to build the
(18:56):
number of homes that you need to plug that kind
of a gap in the budget.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, they built a lot of condos down in the Seaport,
and they also built a lot of great restaurants. So
I don't know if the city benefits from that or not.
I guess not, but they certainly should benefit from the
development of condominiums, high end condominiums down down in the
Seaport district then and in other parts of the city. Look,
I really appreciate it, Greg, This you you simplified in
(19:24):
a good way complicated issue. Greg Mayor, the executive director
of the Boston Policy Institute. I'd like to keep in
touch with you and have you back periodically if that's
okay with you.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Oh, I would love to come on. Dan, thank you
so much for having me on. And I hope people
learn learned a little bit about this, this big crisis.
It's going to be going to be with us for
the next several years.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Ago. So yeah, and this is the first time we
touched it, and you did explain it, I thought very well.
Appreciate the time tonight, Greg, and we'll talk again when
we get back after the news. At the bottom of
the hour, I'd like to open it up and get
your impressions as to what the city of Boston can do. Now. Look,
if you're a resident of Boston, this is going to
(20:07):
affect you personally. It's going to affect your residential real
estate taxes. If you rent in Boston, the owner of
the building, whether it's a corporation or an individual, will
certainly pass through the increases that they're asked to pay.
If you are in commercial development. If it seems to
(20:28):
me that there's no good solution here, uh, And I
don't know that any mayor of Boston is going to
cut any program. I do know that in the schools
we have an ever decreasing school population and an ever
increasing school budget. I don't know how you reconcile those
so love to get your ideas and your thoughts. Six one, seven, two, five,
(20:51):
four ten thirty, triple eight nine two nine ten thirty
or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I
will say this, the one thing we have a lot
of in Boston bicycle lanes. Bicycle lanes have not generated
a lot of revenue, but we have a lot of
bicycle lanes. And look, the mayor's face is going to
be facing a tough re election campaign, and the weaker
(21:13):
that she might seem, the more likely that some challengers
will decide to take a shot. Join the conversation. You
can take a shot. Give us a call here on
Nightside back right after this.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It's Night Side with Dany, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Now, all of us pay a lot of taxes. I
think all of us realize that you pay federal taxes,
if you're working, you pay Social Security taxes, you pay
state taxes. In some cities. In New York City there's
a city tax. So if you live in New York City,
you pay a city tax, and it can run into
a lot of money. In Boston, it's a relatively small
geographic area. It is somewhat limited Boston cannot expand, Okay,
(21:58):
but it can. He needs to take more and more
costs to incur more and more costs, and no one
looks at cuts because that's going to cause political problems.
But I think Mayor Wolf's gonna have some political problems
with the with their election year in terms of the taxes.
Let's go too. Going to start it off with Brian
(22:21):
in Hyde Park. Brian, great, do we have a first
caller tonight from hype from Boston?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Go ahead, Brian, Hey, Dan Hawaii A long time?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Oh yeah, Well I gotta do is call any night.
I'm always here for you.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Go ahead, I pick and choose, but nice to hear you.
But well, I think in my conversations before you know
my background and my thoughts on this. And I called
in when the Sulim was on a few weeks back.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No, don't don't hesit, Brian, I have good memory, but
maybe some of our listeners if you want to preface
your remarks with a perspective, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Well it's uh, it's just been a long time coming.
I think Mayowel has absolutely mismanaged the city financially. Uh,
during COVID, coming out of COVID. They knew the uh,
the occupation rate in the in the in the city
was absolutely down. And you know, now everybody's coming back
(23:20):
to work. But in the meantime, that's tax money revenue
lost to all the local businesses and whatnot in the
property taxes. And I think it goes back to what
many walls to explained for this. Also because he just
brother stamps every project in the city. There isn't a
green space left in the city and it's a shame.
(23:41):
But I think her management of the city, between the homelessness,
the drug problem, math and casts and uh, the infrastructure,
that there isn't a city there.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Are there no there are green spaces left in the city.
When you think about it, you have the Boston Common,
you have the Public Garden, you have the Rose Kennedy
green Way, you have you know what they call the end.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, when you add forty fifty thousand residents to the
to South Boston alone, Dan, it's just it's incredible. Yes,
there are attacks is coming off the condominiums and whatnot,
but it's just uh, oyah, the.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Let's let's let's be honest. In terms of the seaport
development that was I think really Mayor Menino more so.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Than it was it was. And that's part of my
opinion is I think Menino was the last one that
took the the actual citizens of the city seriously and
listened to them, and he drove around the city. He
rode on the streets, he walked the sidewalks, and I
mean what he did for the infrastructure that every baseball
(24:51):
diamond in the city had Georgia clay. You know, it
was just beautiful. It was well, well, rob when you
take eight thousand, eight million dollars out of cold relief funds,
which she is absolutely destroyed and just wasted, and spend
it on three bus routes for four years from one
section in the city while the guy out in Adam's
(25:14):
Mass can't even get a bus and just throws that away.
And now the financial crisis comes to the city is
going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
My opinion, Well, I don't disagree with the thought that
man Wu is going to be facing a crisis. She
obviously realizes that she wouldn't be trotting up to the
state House looking for some help from the state legislature.
But what do you if I could ask you, are
you a homeowner in High Park Brian, No, I am
(25:48):
Are you a renter? Yes? Okay, So whatever increase your
landlord receives, you know that he's going to pass that
on to you. You you want to the other tenants. Okay, unfair,
but that's the way, that's the way of the world works.
How much are you paying now for your for your
(26:11):
your your apartment in Hype.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Park twenty that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Is that a one bedroom or two bedrooms?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
One bedroom, one bedroom?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So it's never going to be lower and eventually it's
going to get higher. And you blame the mayor, I guess,
or a succession.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I think she's just throwing the money away that could
have spent on so many other things that could have
been spent on Long Island transportation to Long Island without
the bridge. But throwing eight million dollars on three bus
roads that go maybe four miles for three years. It
blows me away. Well, we have so many other things
(26:55):
done in the city, and I think, I honestly believe
she she may not even run some dayre again, I
really know she's having a child soon. I think she
just she's in over ahead me presently.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, No, I just I understand that point of view.
I don't see any signs that she's not that she's
not running for reelection. If she wasn't running for reelection,
she wouldn't be drotting after the State House, in my opinion.
But we'll see, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know, a year ago it looked like probably would
be an easy re election. Who who knows. We'll have
to We'll have to see. We got to get through
the presidential election first, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I'll throw that's Flynn. I hope that Flynn jumps in.
I hope he's listening. And I think he's got the
air of the city right now.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, well, he does listen a lot, that's for sure.
I'm sure he'll be happy to hear what you have
to say. Brian and hyprocts. Brian appreciate, Jim good nuck,
good nuck. Okay, I got Tom and Lean coming up
on the other side of good room for you. Uh,
particularly if your Boston resident, are you happy at this point?
You might get unhappy very soon. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(27:58):
Not looking to oil your evening, but this is I
think a financial fiscal reality that Boston is going to
have to face, and it's just not the political leaders
who face that, it's the people who face it. And
if you're a Boston homeowner, feel free. I hope you've
been listening and you understand what I try to do
(28:18):
here on Nightside is layout problems so that we try
to stay a little ahead of the curve. And I
know the focus right now is on the presidential election,
which we will talk about later on tonight. I understand that,
but I also think that it's important to again, when
you're talking about problems, the closest to home that the
(28:39):
problem is, the more severely people will feel it. And
you may really feel it in your real estate taxes
in Boston next year, unless the mayor is somehow able
to pull a miraculous rabbit out of the hat. Six
Mon's seven two, five, four, ten thirty six months seven nine,
three one, ten thirty. If you're not interested in this topic,
that's fine. We're going to change topics at ten o'clock anyway,
(29:03):
but I'd love to get a couple more of you
in between now and ten. Coming back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Now, back to Dan ray Line from the Window World,
Light Side Studios on wb Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You know, I have often said that your most important
votes are in local elections. And the reason's pretty simple.
When you vote in a presidential election to one of
about one hundred and seventy million people who will vote,
So do the math, you're one over one hundred and
seventy million. In terms of impact, that's infinitesimal. It's important,
but it's infinitesimal. You're voting in a state wide election, man,
(29:36):
there's probably three million people going to vote in a
big state wide election, or something two million people, whatever
the number is. But when you talk about your local
whether it's a city mayor's election or a town a
selectman's election, select person's election, those are votes where you
have a greater impact. That's what we're talking about tonight.
Let me go to Tom in Lynn. Hey, Tom, welcome
(29:57):
back to Nightside. How are you?
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I can't how's it going? Yeah? Yeah, A tough topic,
you know, Uh, I guess I guess you get on
was pretty good. You know, I'm not a numbers guy,
but I was. I was kind of following them, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, Well, numbers can Numbers can be overwhelming, particularly in
the radio. But the fact of the matter is that
every major city in New England and certainly in Massachusetts,
is going to be in trouble. You live in Lynn.
I saw today that the teachers are out, not on strike,
but they were picketing and demonstrating against the expansion of
a charter school. Yeah, I mean later on tonight there's
(30:36):
supposed to be a long maybe a longshoreman strike. That
is no effect everybody. Every Yeah, it's going to affect
the cost of goods and services. And you know, it
just seems that that we can't we can't catch a break.
What's your thought on this again, You're in lind in Boston.
What's going on up there?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Well, it's Lynn, Boston State, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
You know.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
You're talking about the budget for the state fifty eight billion,
and then the butt of City of Boston just shi
a five billion. And I'm like, you know, if I
have some kind of financial distress in my household, I
can do two things. I can work more, which I
don't want to do, or I can spend less. Now
that the risk of sound and counterintuitive. We haven't heard
(31:20):
anybody talking about spending less. It's just get how do
we get more money out of people? More money, more money, Dan,
listen to this. We talked a lot of last month
or so about you know, the lower in the federal
rate fifty basis points, and we're talking about inflation. Gallon
of gas is a big part of a lot of
people's budget, right, So what's the federal tax on a
(31:43):
gallon of gas?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, the federal tax on a gallon of gas, I
believe is eighteen cents across the board.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Very good, Very good. No, what about the state? How
much of state get on a gallant gas?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That depends, of course from state to state, So in
massive sets, I believe it's somewhere around twenty six twenty
seven cents a gallon.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, you're good.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
I was incredulous, so I had to look it up
three times. It's like twenty four cents.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You know. It's like they don't get enough the states.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
In Pennsylvania, it's worse. In California.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
It's worse California.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I mean they get your come you know the
old saying, they get you coming and going. Uh, if
you work and you make money, you you never take
home all your money. The feds take some of it.
The state takes some of it, so screwty takes a
lot of it. At least what's so security, You're getting
some theoretically money back.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
At some point you hope you hope this I'm repeating myself,
But when don't we gonna start talking about spending less.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Unfortunately, most politicians don't want to talk about that because
their constituents or people. You have you have half You're
not half the country, but you have a You got
what is it, you know, eighty billion people or whatever
who are the workforce or whatever the number is who
are actually employed. Then you have people who are not
(33:07):
in the workforce. You have people older people and social security,
they've earned their never earned their retirement. But then you
have a lot of people who have always been relying
on government, relying on government, and they never seem very
really do you hear of a success story of someone
getting off the public dole?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And actually every once in a while there you have
those exceptions. But what happens is it becomes easy. You know,
I don't have to work, I get lost covered. And
the Democrats believe that the more that they give to people,
the more loyal those people will be to the Democratic party,
which hence keeps them in power.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And that's exactly and then made you throw the whole
illegal immigrants ninth sense into the mix and su an
other wild card. You know, they can't even keep track
of that.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah. Those there were some numbers that came out last
week which is shocking the number of people who they
believe are murderers and rapists who have been allowed to
charge to this country. It's you, whether you're a Democrat
or a Republican. You deserve the right to be able
to sleep in your bed at night and feel a
modicum of safety. But there's a lot of people now
(34:25):
who live in urban areas who gunshots in their neighborhood
are gunshots in their street corner. It's not an uncommon sound.
And I don't know. I don't know how you fix it.
I think it may be out of you know, the
Democrats have one set of solutions, the Republicans have another
set of solutions. There's not much mixture. The Democrats want
(34:48):
will get rid of the guns. I don't know if
you can get rid of the guns. The government said
let's have more police. You know that that sounds attractive,
and I'm not sure that's the answer either, it's they're
all the politicians are all functioning for one thing, to
get reelected.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
What I say about me is, Dann, I know, I
know all the problems, but I don't. I just can't
figure out any answers.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
You know, well, you know all the problems because all
the problems probably exist in your neighborhood. And I suspect
that if some politicians took the time to talk to
people like you, that they could probably get some advice
from you. I mean, most of these politicians they live
in a very rarefied atmosphere there. They're they're flying down
(35:37):
from Washington, or they're traveling around the country, and it's
almost as if they think we work for them, when
the truth is they're supposed to work for us.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Oh my god, don't even Dan, don't even don't even
go there. My neighborhood, we are a substantial, serious drug problem.
I called the war councilor and uh he he.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Swapped me off.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He says, we'll call the police. And I'm like, yeah,
thanks a lot, you know, right, yeah, sure, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
As if you, first of all, if you were if
you were a normal person, you obviously know you'll call
the police. But at the same time, how about him
as a ward counselor making sure there's more police in
your neighborhood to get the drug dealers out of your neighborhood.
That's his job, not your job.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
But my.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Best friend for thirty years was a war counselor and
Lynn and they have a lot more Uh what's.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
The word juice influence?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Influence?
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Yeah, that to be an influence than if I call
the police or if I call my wak countsel. He calls,
he says, yeah, yeah, okay, we'll get right on now,
you know, and I'm talking too much. I'm gonna go
a little.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thanks, I'll let you run. Thomas always who appreciate your call.
I love your passion. Thank you, my friend, Thank you
very much. We get back. We're going to talk about
another development which I noticed today. And again we try
to stay ahead of stuff here, but that's what Okay,
in California they have just legalized cannabis cafes. How long
before we have cannabis cafes in Massachusetts. I'm willing to
(37:10):
ment it's going to be a lot sooner than you expect.
We'll be back right after the ten o'clock news on nightside,
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