A historic defeat to Afghanistan for the Black Caps.
They've lost to the Asian nation for the first time in a Twenty20 international, dropping their World Cup opener by 84 runs in Guyana.
Cricket commentator Dylan Cleaver joined Piney to unpack the loss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb humiliation for the Black Camps yesterday beaten by eighty
four runs by Afghanistan and their T twenty Cricket World
Cup opener in Guyana.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That is higher in the air the keepers after there's
a fielder underneath. The catcher's taken and fittingly comes on
for Aki gets the final wickets to end with seventeen
history in governor as Afghanistan beats New Zealand for the
first time in teen twenty international cricket.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
So so well deserved as well, curriem j underneath the catch.
They deserve every bit of it. They have simply been
outstanding tonight. They have outplayed New Zealand. They will be
over the moon with that performance. Tournament not done yet,
it's not one here and now, but boy, they have
sent a message.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And you getting nowhere near Afghanistan's total of one p
fifty nine for six, which seemed very gettable between innings
bowled out for seventy five inside sixteen overs. To pick
over the bones of that, let's bring in multi award
winning sports writer editor of the excellent subscription Sports newsletter
The Bounce and familiar voice to cricket fans via the
(01:28):
BYC podcast Dylan Cleaver. Dylan, in your as always raise
a sharp analysis of this game. You called it a remarkable,
prolonged act of self sabotage. So perhaps we can start
with a bit of a deeper examination of that particular assessment.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Yeah, well, look, I think they sabotaged this campaign before
it even started. Really just the fact they didn't change
in a warm up game. I mean I would compare
it to say, well, let's take a step back and
say I think New Zealand are probably the only country
cricket plane country at the moment that still has this view.
(02:07):
Oh well, it's only T twenty. Would we ever go
into a one day fifty have a World Cup as
poorly prepared as we did for this World Championships. I
think the answer to that is a resounding no. And
you've got to ask why given that T twenty is
whether we like it or not, no matter what ourse,
snobber or purest views of cricket are, is the financial
(02:28):
driver of the modern game.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Have you been able to find out why New Zealand
turned up without any warm up matches?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I think it was largely logistics and I don't think
they were impossible to overcome, but they were bringing people
in from different places. It is awfully difficult to get
to the Caribbean from New Zealand, and I think they
have arrived in three separate tracks. The IPL players probably
wanted a bit of home time before they came to
(02:57):
the World T twenty. I would again, I think you
co would make a case that you know, if they
want at home time, it should have been scheduled for
that another stage rather than right before World Championships. And yeah,
it's just seemed honest, honestly and listened to the coming
to people like Mitchell Santner and that really chaotic starts
(03:20):
this tournament for them.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Just again, I don't want to dwell on the build
up to this too much, but again, to to to
not give the team the best chance of success, This
is a massive failure of organization, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Yeah, I don't know really what was going through their heads. Honestly,
this is a massive failure of the Lincoln operations. It's
possibly a massive failure of the playing leadership as well
that they didn't recognize the potential pitfalls here. I'm wondering
if they all thought they were going to have those
eight ipl as, whether they thought they were going to
(03:56):
have far more game time during that tournament, the far
more involvement in that tournament, because it's just it makes
no sense on the service of things, that makes no
sense if there's something deeper behind it than I think
New Zealand Cricket not now, because I mean, there's obviously
still a chance they can turn this around as unlikely
(04:17):
as I looked on the evidence of yesterday, but they
could still turn it around. But if they don't, then
I think there really needs to be honest explanation of
why they put the team in this position.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Let's look at yesterday, which of the three parts of
New Zealand's performance batting, bowling, fielding was most alarming for you?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I thought they bowled right. Fielding was just woeful and
unfortunately it's a continuation of what we saw last summer.
And when that three kneel series defeat T twenty defeat
to Australia was they were polls apart in their fielding.
New Zealand poorly, Australia fielded well and in Game one
(04:58):
that was probably the difference in Game two US Games
two and three, Australia were just much better. But yeah,
the fielding has been poor for a while now, and
I think that goes across format's. Actually I think a
chance of a Test series draw with Australia was essentially
lost on the final day, had the faball when they
(05:18):
fill a very easy chance. I don't know. Is that
a confidence thing. I mean, feeling is a fine skills
thing and New Zealands just aren't very good at it
at the moment. But they seem to have pummeted from
a great height because everyone regarded them as such an efficient,
well drilled fielding unit and suddenly a long way away
(05:39):
from that. So that was really disappointing. And you could
drill down even further than that and strategically, have they
got it right by not playing a keeper. I'm sure
they've got lots of data to back up the fact
that you don't really need a high fast keeper in
T twenty. I would argue, actually on tricky pitchers and
when you've got a bowling attack that you suspect might
(06:01):
be the equal of the betting lineup you're against, I
think it's fall hardy player keeper and that was born
out yesterday and that's not that's not wisdom and hindsight.
I sort of thought that for a while, but I'm
just it all paled in comparison to just a really
dreadful belly of it. I mean, pick your poisoned piney.
(06:24):
Well they're bold, okay, they fielded dreadfully and they batter
it embarrassingly.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That is a very succinct and and am I anyway
accurate summation of the whole thing on the batting though?
Can we just say, okay, and maybe this is me
down playing T twenty, but can we just say, you
know what, it's T twenty. Sometimes these things happen. Sometimes
you get bold out for seventy five and sixteen overs
or is that? Is that not fair?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
No? I think you are right. And T twenty is
slightly difficult. Well, it's easy and the most speakle of
the formats. You can get upsets more easy in T
twenty cricket than you can get in in the other format.
And you can have horrible days at the office. And
you know, new Zelling now going to a winn to
take all essentially with West Indies, so there is still
(07:10):
a chance for them to pull this out of the fire.
It was just a really awkward chase from earlier once
they lost ban Allen, who they have so much riding
on finale and stroke gradibility at the top, and his
inconsistency means you can't really rely on it, and yet
(07:30):
they do with Conway and Williamson in that top three
and Mitchell as well, who at four, who is a
very powerful striker of the ball, but he's not a
guy that can go from ball one. So when Banellen
gets his polls rattled first ball of the innings, you
know that they're going to have to go about it,
and they kind of very measured way, and I just
(07:54):
don't think the situation called for that. I think they
were handstring by the way they've constructed their batting lineup,
and I mean there are pixures they can make there,
but I think they're also going to be a lot
more flexible in New Zealand that they're just so rigid.
You know exactly how they're going to go about the
betting every time, and you know it might have been
(08:15):
a case. I think the commentators even mentioned there, and
they perfectly good sense that you know, there was probably
a case for bringing a left hander up to number
five in place of Glen Phillips to kind of get
those their right partnerships going. But they never even consider
things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Fanellan, just on herm it strikes me in T twenty
cricket is very much a high risk, high reward proposition.
Is New Zealand getting enough reward to persist with Finellum.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Not at the moment. But he's twenty five, he's played
forty four twenties. Now, I think I did, and my
new said, I read uf some stats about them, which
I fortifusly haven't got to hand right at the moment.
But he's been dismissed in less than six balls or
fewer than six balls. You know, I'm almost a third
of the innings or a quarter of the innings he's
(09:07):
played so far. Is as failure eight is really high
you The worrying thing for me is that he doesn't
appear to be getting better. Uh. And I think you can.
I think you definitely need high risk, higher more propositions
and teach twenty quickie. You can't go into games without them.
(09:28):
You need your Travis Head's, your Fan Alans and Syria Kumass.
But they've just got to they've got to come off
more than an al and that's coming off. But I
wouldn't I wouldn't ditch yet. I still think there's talent there.
It's just going to be expressed more often.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So now against the West Inndays on Thursday, this is
effectively a knockout match in many ways. What can New
Zealand do selection wise? Do you do you think they
could make changes?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah? I think they shure it's not really the Gary
Star King Williams and wayo is it that reasonably stubborn
when it comes to selection. I was surprised to see
Rochard Ravindra not in there for the simple fact you
play quite a few games at the IPL. He was
one of the few guys that was coming in and
she asked on cricket and although he didn't have a
great tournament, he didn't have an uptick at the end,
(10:22):
which suggested he was in reasonable form. The problem is
the natural place for room to go and is at
the top and place of Conway. But then that puts
even more pressure on your wikie keeping situations. You then
hand the gloves to Fanellen, who probably should be concentrating
only on batting at the moment, or perhaps you revived
Gwen Phillips's wook at keeping career, in which case you
(10:43):
lose that option as a bowler of ospin filter an
over or two if you need it. So it's not
a simple job to crowbarron him in there, but I
probably would. Nisian's the other one who I thought was unlucky,
and just that he's one of those guys that pulls
(11:04):
things out of the fire under pressure. He actually enjoys
betting and pressure moments. He enjoys bowling and pressure moments,
although sometimes you wish you wouldn't enjoy bowling and pressure
moments quite so often because he's quite expensive. But I
think there's probably a place for him and there maybe
in place of Graceful and then Yeah, I mean it's
(11:30):
a reasonable squad, right, there's not too many players picked
for who you thought, oh, Jeepes, I can't believe he
got in and said of such and such. I mean,
it's not like where I've got buckets full of depth
to choose from here. So I don't think really selection
is the critical factory against the Western is They've just
got a field so much better they've got to beat
(11:51):
so much better. And without being a doom sayer, you know,
even being in the Western Thes might not be enough
of the wind. He's then turn around and beat Afghanistan,
and that comes down to a run rate battle for
that second spot because by virtue of destroying Uganda and
New Zealand, Afghanistan and miles ahead in that regard anyway.
(12:11):
So it's very tricky from here on in piny And.
I know that sounds like doom and glue, but having
sat through there yesterday, it's probably most people who who
witness that field.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Absolutely, I do want to finish on a glimmer of
hope as you have and your piece. You're right. The
one thing New Zealand fans can fall back on is
this is a team who's senior players tend to figure
things out. So do you think they will?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah, well, I don't think they could possibly pay that poorly. Yeah,
twenty is probably the most difficult format to figure things
out on the flywood because it all happened so fast
and it's so reactive, it's so instinctive. But yeah, I look,
they have to in their own minds treat that Afghanistan
(13:00):
game in rich respectcause if there was the warm up
game now and the tournament starts for them, and you know,
the fingers crashed. Much better performance in Trinidad's or just
outside Trinidad at the Brian Lawer Academy and New Zealand continue.
There's quite amazing run. They've had a nice in some
of tournaments which we shouldn't forget either. You know, this
(13:21):
is a generation of players that have time and again,
to use that horrible cliche, probably punched above their weight.
We do not want them to regress to the meme
just yet.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Dylan. Thanks for taking one for the team and being
the one we've chosen to unpeck this for us. Let's
hope things are a lot brighter from here on. I
appreciate your time this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Cheers, Bunny.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Thanks Dylan. Dylan Cleaver. Subscribe to us newsletter. It is
just terrific, The Bounce. It's called Just google it or
look on your socials and it's it's a terrific, terrific
sports newsletter with great opinion, really incisive analysis and well,
as you heard from Dylan, he's a well he's a
(14:05):
cricket tragic, I guess you'd probably say, but he can
drill down into things and unpack them very very well.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
For more from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks it B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb humiliation for the Black Camps yesterday beaten by eighty
four runs by Afghanistan and their T twenty Cricket World
Cup opener in Guyana.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That is higher in the air the keepers after there's
a fielder underneath. The catcher's taken and fittingly comes on
for Aki gets the final wickets to end with seventeen
history in governor as Afghanistan beats New Zealand for the
first time in teen twenty international cricket.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
So so well deserved as well, curriem j underneath the catch.
They deserve every bit of it. They have simply been
outstanding tonight. They have outplayed New Zealand. They will be
over the moon with that performance. Tournament not done yet,
it's not one here and now, but boy, they have
sent a message.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And you getting nowhere near Afghanistan's total of one p
fifty nine for six, which seemed very gettable between innings
bowled out for seventy five inside sixteen overs. To pick
over the bones of that, let's bring in multi award
winning sports writer editor of the excellent subscription Sports newsletter
The Bounce and familiar voice to cricket fans via the
(01:28):
BYC podcast Dylan Cleaver. Dylan, in your as always raise
a sharp analysis of this game. You called it a remarkable,
prolonged act of self sabotage. So perhaps we can start
with a bit of a deeper examination of that particular assessment.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Yeah, well, look, I think they sabotaged this campaign before
it even started. Really just the fact they didn't change
in a warm up game. I mean I would compare
it to say, well, let's take a step back and
say I think New Zealand are probably the only country
cricket plane country at the moment that still has this view.
(02:07):
Oh well, it's only T twenty. Would we ever go
into a one day fifty have a World Cup as
poorly prepared as we did for this World Championships. I
think the answer to that is a resounding no. And
you've got to ask why given that T twenty is
whether we like it or not, no matter what ourse,
snobber or purest views of cricket are, is the financial
(02:28):
driver of the modern game.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Have you been able to find out why New Zealand
turned up without any warm up matches?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I think it was largely logistics and I don't think
they were impossible to overcome, but they were bringing people
in from different places. It is awfully difficult to get
to the Caribbean from New Zealand, and I think they
have arrived in three separate tracks. The IPL players probably
wanted a bit of home time before they came to
(02:57):
the World T twenty. I would again, I think you
co would make a case that you know, if they
want at home time, it should have been scheduled for
that another stage rather than right before World Championships. And yeah,
it's just seemed honest, honestly and listened to the coming
to people like Mitchell Santner and that really chaotic starts
(03:20):
this tournament for them.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Just again, I don't want to dwell on the build
up to this too much, but again, to to to
not give the team the best chance of success, This
is a massive failure of organization, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Yeah, I don't know really what was going through their heads. Honestly,
this is a massive failure of the Lincoln operations. It's
possibly a massive failure of the playing leadership as well
that they didn't recognize the potential pitfalls here. I'm wondering
if they all thought they were going to have those
eight ipl as, whether they thought they were going to
(03:56):
have far more game time during that tournament, the far
more involvement in that tournament, because it's just it makes
no sense on the service of things, that makes no
sense if there's something deeper behind it than I think
New Zealand Cricket not now, because I mean, there's obviously
still a chance they can turn this around as unlikely
(04:17):
as I looked on the evidence of yesterday, but they
could still turn it around. But if they don't, then
I think there really needs to be honest explanation of
why they put the team in this position.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Let's look at yesterday, which of the three parts of
New Zealand's performance batting, bowling, fielding was most alarming for you?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I thought they bowled right. Fielding was just woeful and
unfortunately it's a continuation of what we saw last summer.
And when that three kneel series defeat T twenty defeat
to Australia was they were polls apart in their fielding.
New Zealand poorly, Australia fielded well and in Game one
(04:58):
that was probably the difference in Game two US Games
two and three, Australia were just much better. But yeah,
the fielding has been poor for a while now, and
I think that goes across format's. Actually I think a
chance of a Test series draw with Australia was essentially
lost on the final day, had the faball when they
(05:18):
fill a very easy chance. I don't know. Is that
a confidence thing. I mean, feeling is a fine skills
thing and New Zealands just aren't very good at it
at the moment. But they seem to have pummeted from
a great height because everyone regarded them as such an efficient,
well drilled fielding unit and suddenly a long way away
(05:39):
from that. So that was really disappointing. And you could
drill down even further than that and strategically, have they
got it right by not playing a keeper. I'm sure
they've got lots of data to back up the fact
that you don't really need a high fast keeper in
T twenty. I would argue, actually on tricky pitchers and
when you've got a bowling attack that you suspect might
(06:01):
be the equal of the betting lineup you're against, I
think it's fall hardy player keeper and that was born
out yesterday and that's not that's not wisdom and hindsight.
I sort of thought that for a while, but I'm
just it all paled in comparison to just a really
dreadful belly of it. I mean, pick your poisoned piney.
(06:24):
Well they're bold, okay, they fielded dreadfully and they batter
it embarrassingly.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That is a very succinct and and am I anyway
accurate summation of the whole thing on the batting though?
Can we just say, okay, and maybe this is me
down playing T twenty, but can we just say, you
know what, it's T twenty. Sometimes these things happen. Sometimes
you get bold out for seventy five and sixteen overs
or is that? Is that not fair?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
No? I think you are right. And T twenty is
slightly difficult. Well, it's easy and the most speakle of
the formats. You can get upsets more easy in T
twenty cricket than you can get in in the other format.
And you can have horrible days at the office. And
you know, new Zelling now going to a winn to
take all essentially with West Indies, so there is still
(07:10):
a chance for them to pull this out of the fire.
It was just a really awkward chase from earlier once
they lost ban Allen, who they have so much riding
on finale and stroke gradibility at the top, and his
inconsistency means you can't really rely on it, and yet
(07:30):
they do with Conway and Williamson in that top three
and Mitchell as well, who at four, who is a
very powerful striker of the ball, but he's not a
guy that can go from ball one. So when Banellen
gets his polls rattled first ball of the innings, you
know that they're going to have to go about it,
and they kind of very measured way, and I just
(07:54):
don't think the situation called for that. I think they
were handstring by the way they've constructed their batting lineup,
and I mean there are pixures they can make there,
but I think they're also going to be a lot
more flexible in New Zealand that they're just so rigid.
You know exactly how they're going to go about the
betting every time, and you know it might have been
(08:15):
a case. I think the commentators even mentioned there, and
they perfectly good sense that you know, there was probably
a case for bringing a left hander up to number
five in place of Glen Phillips to kind of get
those their right partnerships going. But they never even consider
things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Fanellan, just on herm it strikes me in T twenty
cricket is very much a high risk, high reward proposition.
Is New Zealand getting enough reward to persist with Finellum.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Not at the moment. But he's twenty five, he's played
forty four twenties. Now, I think I did, and my
new said, I read uf some stats about them, which
I fortifusly haven't got to hand right at the moment.
But he's been dismissed in less than six balls or
fewer than six balls. You know, I'm almost a third
of the innings or a quarter of the innings he's
(09:07):
played so far. Is as failure eight is really high
you The worrying thing for me is that he doesn't
appear to be getting better. Uh. And I think you can.
I think you definitely need high risk, higher more propositions
and teach twenty quickie. You can't go into games without them.
(09:28):
You need your Travis Head's, your Fan Alans and Syria Kumass.
But they've just got to they've got to come off
more than an al and that's coming off. But I
wouldn't I wouldn't ditch yet. I still think there's talent there.
It's just going to be expressed more often.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So now against the West Inndays on Thursday, this is
effectively a knockout match in many ways. What can New
Zealand do selection wise? Do you do you think they
could make changes?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah? I think they shure it's not really the Gary
Star King Williams and wayo is it that reasonably stubborn
when it comes to selection. I was surprised to see
Rochard Ravindra not in there for the simple fact you
play quite a few games at the IPL. He was
one of the few guys that was coming in and
she asked on cricket and although he didn't have a
great tournament, he didn't have an uptick at the end,
(10:22):
which suggested he was in reasonable form. The problem is
the natural place for room to go and is at
the top and place of Conway. But then that puts
even more pressure on your wikie keeping situations. You then
hand the gloves to Fanellen, who probably should be concentrating
only on batting at the moment, or perhaps you revived
Gwen Phillips's wook at keeping career, in which case you
(10:43):
lose that option as a bowler of ospin filter an
over or two if you need it. So it's not
a simple job to crowbarron him in there, but I
probably would. Nisian's the other one who I thought was unlucky,
and just that he's one of those guys that pulls
(11:04):
things out of the fire under pressure. He actually enjoys
betting and pressure moments. He enjoys bowling and pressure moments,
although sometimes you wish you wouldn't enjoy bowling and pressure
moments quite so often because he's quite expensive. But I
think there's probably a place for him and there maybe
in place of Graceful and then Yeah, I mean it's
(11:30):
a reasonable squad, right, there's not too many players picked
for who you thought, oh, Jeepes, I can't believe he
got in and said of such and such. I mean,
it's not like where I've got buckets full of depth
to choose from here. So I don't think really selection
is the critical factory against the Western is They've just
got a field so much better they've got to beat
(11:51):
so much better. And without being a doom sayer, you know,
even being in the Western Thes might not be enough
of the wind. He's then turn around and beat Afghanistan,
and that comes down to a run rate battle for
that second spot because by virtue of destroying Uganda and
New Zealand, Afghanistan and miles ahead in that regard anyway.
(12:11):
So it's very tricky from here on in piny And.
I know that sounds like doom and glue, but having
sat through there yesterday, it's probably most people who who
witness that field.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Absolutely, I do want to finish on a glimmer of
hope as you have and your piece. You're right. The
one thing New Zealand fans can fall back on is
this is a team who's senior players tend to figure
things out. So do you think they will?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah, well, I don't think they could possibly pay that poorly. Yeah,
twenty is probably the most difficult format to figure things
out on the flywood because it all happened so fast
and it's so reactive, it's so instinctive. But yeah, I look,
they have to in their own minds treat that Afghanistan
(13:00):
game in rich respectcause if there was the warm up
game now and the tournament starts for them, and you know,
the fingers crashed. Much better performance in Trinidad's or just
outside Trinidad at the Brian Lawer Academy and New Zealand continue.
There's quite amazing run. They've had a nice in some
of tournaments which we shouldn't forget either. You know, this
(13:21):
is a generation of players that have time and again,
to use that horrible cliche, probably punched above their weight.
We do not want them to regress to the meme
just yet.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Dylan. Thanks for taking one for the team and being
the one we've chosen to unpeck this for us. Let's
hope things are a lot brighter from here on. I
appreciate your time this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Cheers, Bunny.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Thanks Dylan. Dylan Cleaver. Subscribe to us newsletter. It is
just terrific, The Bounce. It's called Just google it or
look on your socials and it's it's a terrific, terrific
sports newsletter with great opinion, really incisive analysis and well,
as you heard from Dylan, he's a well he's a
(14:05):
cricket tragic, I guess you'd probably say, but he can
drill down into things and unpack them very very well.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
For more from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks it B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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