December 20, 2024 • 12 mins
Liam Lawson will be a Red Bull Racing diver for the 2025 Formula One season.
The team officially confirmed late Thursday night New Zealand time that he will partner four-time defending world champion Max Verstappen.
Why did Red Bull choose Liam Lawson over Yuki Sonoda?
And what does success look like for Liam next year?
Motorsport Analysist Eric Thompson joins the show to discuss the young kiwi's new position.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ki we.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Liam Lawson will be a Red Bull Racing driver for
the twenty twenty five Formula One season. The team officially
confirmed late on Thursday night New Zealand Time that he
will partner full time defending world champion Max for Stappen
next year. That news came less than twenty four hours
after Red Ball announced they were parting ways with Mexican
(00:34):
driver Sergio Perez. Motorsport analyst Eric Thompson is with us
to run an eye over this and give us some
deeper analysis. It's either seemed more and more likely over
the last few weeks or so why would red Ball
have eventually chosen Liam Lawson over the other candidate, Yuki Sonoda.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Liam is just a better fit. And also he's spent
a lot of time in development with the Formula one
current and loads and loads of those times on the simulator.
So and he has a great rapport with his engineers.
In fact, in a recent interview of one of his
chief engineers, they said they really like Liam because he
(01:18):
has a really good understanding of how things work. I
mean a lot of people understand how the things work,
but to be able to communicate that to your engineer
to get the best out of a car is incredibly important.
At that level. Yuki Sonoda can as a one lap maestro.
He is extraordinarily fast, but consistent, not really you know,
(01:41):
he's crashed and warm up laps. He's sort of bent
the car when there's been no need to. And he
can get a bit lippy on the radio. And well
Liam actually apologized for flipping the bird, but I think
he'll be okay after that. Pointy, But he Yuki's a
little bit doesn't really get on that well with you know,
other people in the team, not badly, but and also
(02:02):
he doesn't have that ability. Liam has always had been
able to have discussion with engineers to improve the car,
and that's what Red Bull need especially so and where
I think a few people are missing a trick or
two is that there's only one more year in that
car in twenty twenty six. It's a brand new car.
They have a brand new engine, brand new everything, and
they reckon Liam has the ability to adapt to the
(02:23):
brand new car, maybe potentially even quicker than Max the Stappen.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Wow, Well that that is a high piece of praise. Well,
let's talk about twenty twenty five. First of all, this
is a very general question. Et what does success look
like for Liam next year? If we're talking before Christmas
in twenty twenty five, which I'm sure we will, what
will have had to have happened for Liam to call
twenty twenty five a success.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm regularly getting points for the Manufacturer's Championship. Red Bull
aren't at the moment looking for him to win a title.
You know, They've already got a full time title winner.
They're looking for somebody who can actually get points. You know,
the points gap between the Stappen and Perez I think
was two hundred and eighty odd. That was more than
(03:08):
the total of every other points differentiating every other team. Wow. Now,
and you know that Red Bull dropped from leading the
championship at the summer break the Manufacturer's Championship I'm talking
about to third. That's tens upon tens of millions of
US dollars in prize money out the door. So they'll
(03:28):
be looking for Liam to be within four or five
places of the Stappen and to constantly be picking up points.
You know, if you can get on the podium, huge
bonus if he wins a race, Hell I lulia and
praise the good Lord. But if he finishes the regularly
in the points, they'll be as happy as so.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Just on that, then he'll still be able to aim
for podiums. Team instructions won't prevent him from garde as
fast as he can and trying to finish as high
up as he can.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, no, not at all. I mean, as long as
you know the golden rule. Well, there's two golden rules
actually is one, you do not crash into your teammates.
That the cardinal sin. And number two, the thing that
you really want to do. What every teammate wants to
do is beat his other teammate. And so if Liam
(04:16):
gets the opportunity, you know, Max might be struggling in
the car or the car set up, or he's overcooked
his tires, yet they'll be just going like, go for it.
That's great, crash into him.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
No, I think that's probably fair. I think that's probably
a good golden rule inside that team. Though, et there's
no doubting the picking order Max for Stappen. Four time
defending world champion Liam Lawson, the new kid on the block,
how much Red Bull resource will be throwing Max for
Stappan's way and what would that mean for Liam Lawson.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What they'll do is they'll build a car for Max.
But what's becoming more and more evident is Max and
Liam ax you get on, which is a really good sign.
And even some people laugh a bit, but you know
Max's dad, Josta Stafford, can throw his toys out of
the cot on a semi regular basis and he can
cause a bit of grief internally. Well, he's come out
and said Justice Staffer has come out and said he
(05:08):
lights the cut of Liam's jib. You know, he lights
the way he'll be a good fit for the team.
So you know, all those really important political dynamics are
all aligned. So at least Christian Horner and Marco and
the Red Bull board, you know, aren't going to be
worried about a massive clash. But also they say that
Liam has put his hand up and said he wants
to learn from Max, learn craft, learn racing, learn how
(05:31):
to go super quick. But he's also he likes a
similar sort of car, so in a way that two
of them will be developed. Being able to develop that
car in twenty twenty five, which is a huge bonus
for the whole team.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Talk to him about twenty twenty six. You mentioned before
a new car, a new engine, So will Liam be
a part of that or will he have to show
in twenty twenty five that he is worthy of being
a part of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Oh, you'll have to do his bit in twenty twenty five, definitely,
you know, like he can't if he does a Perez
and doesn't help the team get manufacturer's points. Yes, he
will be at risk. And we've all seen what Red
Bull have been like. You know, they've thrown young guys
in there before. I think there was debris, Alex Albern,
Pierre Gasley, to name just a couple. Even Berendon Hartley
(06:16):
had to go in the team. So you know they're ruthless.
But Liam has a lot of what I would call
soft skills that makes the team happy and confident they
can develop him, you know, and that he can grow
within the team and be a really big support. And
it's also the other thing is they'll be looking at
(06:36):
is Max has sometimes said, you know, if I get
fined for swearing anymore, I have to do any of this,
you know, I don't need this. Here's the fourth time
world championship. So if he decides to walk away, they've
already got somebody in the team who they're developing. And
in twenty twenty six the cars will have a lot
less downforce. And Liam and a couple of the other
(06:57):
younger drivers in the category have driven cars with a
lot less downforce than Formula One, so they're quite used
to cars with very low downforce. So when the new
car comes into twenty six days, you think that, you know,
Liam will be positioned quite well, whereas Max may potentially
struggle a little bit if they remove a whole lot
of downfalls.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
How much, yeah, how much will Liam Lawson's life change now? Et?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think it probably changed palpably when he got the
sixth race gig this year. I think that's when he knew, right,
I am, I'm not hanging on by my fingertips in
this category. I've got a firm grip on that bar
with two hands, and as long as I don't wreck
the car on fine. So now he's stepping up onto
(07:44):
that platform. But now he's really got, you know, a
bit of a mountain to climb. Yet some people are
saying and I agree that he's made it to base
camp at Mount Everest, and you know a lot of
people can't get to base camp at Mount Everest. That's
a long way out. Now he's got to keep going,
(08:05):
so there's still another the mountain. That's but he's got
all the right mental you know, at the attitude's got
the right mental attitude and aptitudes for it. You know,
he can develop. He wants to learn, and that's the
thing he's always said. I was just here to win,
but I'm also here to learn, and that, you know,
as a team principle, that's all you really want to hear.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's so interesting because you and I have chatted, and
I remember thinking at the time that this was something
that Liam would never be able to bring to the table.
You talked about Sergio Perez and a huge Mexican backing
and all those cans of Red Bull that can be
sold in Mexico, Yuki Sonoda with the Japanese commercial backing
and all of that. So clearly Red Bull have decided
(08:44):
that what Liam brings, the soft skills, the ability to learn,
the ability to develop, is more important than those things.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, and I think what made the decision a lot
easier was Perez probably losing Red Bull more money by
not collecting points than his sponsorship would have bought next
year right to the table. And they're just going and
in limb. And it's also they want to get back
to investing in youth. You know, they tried to bring
(09:12):
Daniel Ricciardo in but that didn't work, you know, and
they're just saying, look, we've got a junior development team.
Let's get back to promoting junior development drivers. You know,
they did it with Sebastian Vettel, They've done it with
Max the staff, and they've tried it with a couple
of others that hasn't worked. They do work on the
principle of you know how you and I probably probably
not you piny, but me, I'm but older than youth
(09:34):
who learned to swim with my mum and dad. I
was literally, not figuratively, chucked into the pool and get
to the get to the side, and you'll be okay.
That's a red Ball philosophy, is you chuck them in
and I he's just got just that's one thing Liam's got.
He may not be the fastest guy on the track,
(09:54):
you know, you know, he's no Oscar Pastri who won
every every category. You know, he raced them. But he's
a the veriusstute young man, and that's what you need
at that sport, you know, the he's the killability to
drive a car very very fast. Most of us can
do that if we spent most of our life doing
it from the age of seven. But there's that last
two to three percent. Like I know you've talked about
(10:16):
other since you shaped four point him and you said,
at that elite level of sport, it's all in the
top two percent of your head. And Liam's got that
in space.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, it seems like it. And just to finish on that, like,
I've never met Liam Lawson, but I've seen a lot
of him in media situations and you know, in racing situations,
and he just seems so unaffected by it all, so composed,
so down to earth, so key. We really, is that
actually the case? He is that authentic?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, mate, I've been lucky enough to have been interviewing
him since about two thousand and six steam maybe and
also when he went up to China and the F
three championship are there very articulate. He's a thinker, but
he's not a deep thinker. You know, he gets lost
and he goes down his own rabbit holes. He knows
what he wants and he's you know, and he's quite
single minded, but in a really good way. Unless somebody's
(11:07):
got a better option, or a better idea or a
better alternative. He has the confidence to go with what
he thinks. But he's also got the ability to listen
and go okay, that one makes more sense. He handles
the media very very well. But mind he's been doing
it for a long time. We tend to forget although
only at twenty two, he's been in the sport for
(11:27):
over ten years, you know, at quite an elite level.
And he's got some good people around him, Grant McDonald,
Dennis Martin that will help them through. He's got a
very supportive family, you know, all these again I talking
about soft skills, and it's all this great support network
around him. He doesn't have a dad that thinks he
knows better than his son. You know, his dad hasn't
(11:48):
tried to coach him. His family's made sure they put
the right people around him to mentor him and to
get him ready for everything. So now it's really here's
your chance. You've got there, paul A Pennon, go for it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
What an exciting time for him, for his family and
for motors ball fans and sports fans here in New Zealand. Et.
Twenty twenty five is going to be quite the watch
of Formula one for us all. Thanks so much for
lending us your insight, you're analysis, your expertise. Have a
great Christmas mote. We'll catch up in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, it's same to you and your family and all
your listens too, Mat. I hope they have a glorious
Christmas New Year.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, I hope so too. Et. Eric Thompson there with
some great insight until Liam Lawson and what success will
look like for him next year, what he's up against.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ki we.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Liam Lawson will be a Red Bull Racing driver for
the twenty twenty five Formula One season. The team officially
confirmed late on Thursday night New Zealand Time that he
will partner full time defending world champion Max for Stappen
next year. That news came less than twenty four hours
after Red Ball announced they were parting ways with Mexican
(00:34):
driver Sergio Perez. Motorsport analyst Eric Thompson is with us
to run an eye over this and give us some
deeper analysis. It's either seemed more and more likely over
the last few weeks or so why would red Ball
have eventually chosen Liam Lawson over the other candidate, Yuki Sonoda.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Liam is just a better fit. And also he's spent
a lot of time in development with the Formula one
current and loads and loads of those times on the simulator.
So and he has a great rapport with his engineers.
In fact, in a recent interview of one of his
chief engineers, they said they really like Liam because he
(01:18):
has a really good understanding of how things work. I
mean a lot of people understand how the things work,
but to be able to communicate that to your engineer
to get the best out of a car is incredibly important.
At that level. Yuki Sonoda can as a one lap maestro.
He is extraordinarily fast, but consistent, not really you know,
(01:41):
he's crashed and warm up laps. He's sort of bent
the car when there's been no need to. And he
can get a bit lippy on the radio. And well
Liam actually apologized for flipping the bird, but I think
he'll be okay after that. Pointy, But he Yuki's a
little bit doesn't really get on that well with you know,
other people in the team, not badly, but and also
(02:02):
he doesn't have that ability. Liam has always had been
able to have discussion with engineers to improve the car,
and that's what Red Bull need especially so and where
I think a few people are missing a trick or
two is that there's only one more year in that
car in twenty twenty six. It's a brand new car.
They have a brand new engine, brand new everything, and
they reckon Liam has the ability to adapt to the
(02:23):
brand new car, maybe potentially even quicker than Max the Stappen.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Wow, Well that that is a high piece of praise. Well,
let's talk about twenty twenty five. First of all, this
is a very general question. Et what does success look
like for Liam next year? If we're talking before Christmas
in twenty twenty five, which I'm sure we will, what
will have had to have happened for Liam to call
twenty twenty five a success.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm regularly getting points for the Manufacturer's Championship. Red Bull
aren't at the moment looking for him to win a title.
You know, They've already got a full time title winner.
They're looking for somebody who can actually get points. You know,
the points gap between the Stappen and Perez I think
was two hundred and eighty odd. That was more than
(03:08):
the total of every other points differentiating every other team. Wow. Now,
and you know that Red Bull dropped from leading the
championship at the summer break the Manufacturer's Championship I'm talking
about to third. That's tens upon tens of millions of
US dollars in prize money out the door. So they'll
(03:28):
be looking for Liam to be within four or five
places of the Stappen and to constantly be picking up points.
You know, if you can get on the podium, huge
bonus if he wins a race, Hell I lulia and
praise the good Lord. But if he finishes the regularly
in the points, they'll be as happy as so.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Just on that, then he'll still be able to aim
for podiums. Team instructions won't prevent him from garde as
fast as he can and trying to finish as high
up as he can.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, no, not at all. I mean, as long as
you know the golden rule. Well, there's two golden rules
actually is one, you do not crash into your teammates.
That the cardinal sin. And number two, the thing that
you really want to do. What every teammate wants to
do is beat his other teammate. And so if Liam
(04:16):
gets the opportunity, you know, Max might be struggling in
the car or the car set up, or he's overcooked
his tires, yet they'll be just going like, go for it.
That's great, crash into him.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
No, I think that's probably fair. I think that's probably
a good golden rule inside that team. Though, et there's
no doubting the picking order Max for Stappen. Four time
defending world champion Liam Lawson, the new kid on the block,
how much Red Bull resource will be throwing Max for
Stappan's way and what would that mean for Liam Lawson.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What they'll do is they'll build a car for Max.
But what's becoming more and more evident is Max and
Liam ax you get on, which is a really good sign.
And even some people laugh a bit, but you know
Max's dad, Josta Stafford, can throw his toys out of
the cot on a semi regular basis and he can
cause a bit of grief internally. Well, he's come out
and said Justice Staffer has come out and said he
(05:08):
lights the cut of Liam's jib. You know, he lights
the way he'll be a good fit for the team.
So you know, all those really important political dynamics are
all aligned. So at least Christian Horner and Marco and
the Red Bull board, you know, aren't going to be
worried about a massive clash. But also they say that
Liam has put his hand up and said he wants
to learn from Max, learn craft, learn racing, learn how
(05:31):
to go super quick. But he's also he likes a
similar sort of car, so in a way that two
of them will be developed. Being able to develop that
car in twenty twenty five, which is a huge bonus
for the whole team.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Talk to him about twenty twenty six. You mentioned before
a new car, a new engine, So will Liam be
a part of that or will he have to show
in twenty twenty five that he is worthy of being
a part of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Oh, you'll have to do his bit in twenty twenty five, definitely,
you know, like he can't if he does a Perez
and doesn't help the team get manufacturer's points. Yes, he
will be at risk. And we've all seen what Red
Bull have been like. You know, they've thrown young guys
in there before. I think there was debris, Alex Albern,
Pierre Gasley, to name just a couple. Even Berendon Hartley
(06:16):
had to go in the team. So you know they're ruthless.
But Liam has a lot of what I would call
soft skills that makes the team happy and confident they
can develop him, you know, and that he can grow
within the team and be a really big support. And
it's also the other thing is they'll be looking at
(06:36):
is Max has sometimes said, you know, if I get
fined for swearing anymore, I have to do any of this,
you know, I don't need this. Here's the fourth time
world championship. So if he decides to walk away, they've
already got somebody in the team who they're developing. And
in twenty twenty six the cars will have a lot
less downforce. And Liam and a couple of the other
(06:57):
younger drivers in the category have driven cars with a
lot less downforce than Formula One, so they're quite used
to cars with very low downforce. So when the new
car comes into twenty six days, you think that, you know,
Liam will be positioned quite well, whereas Max may potentially
struggle a little bit if they remove a whole lot
of downfalls.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
How much, yeah, how much will Liam Lawson's life change now? Et?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think it probably changed palpably when he got the
sixth race gig this year. I think that's when he knew, right,
I am, I'm not hanging on by my fingertips in
this category. I've got a firm grip on that bar
with two hands, and as long as I don't wreck
the car on fine. So now he's stepping up onto
(07:44):
that platform. But now he's really got, you know, a
bit of a mountain to climb. Yet some people are
saying and I agree that he's made it to base
camp at Mount Everest, and you know a lot of
people can't get to base camp at Mount Everest. That's
a long way out. Now he's got to keep going,
(08:05):
so there's still another the mountain. That's but he's got
all the right mental you know, at the attitude's got
the right mental attitude and aptitudes for it. You know,
he can develop. He wants to learn, and that's the
thing he's always said. I was just here to win,
but I'm also here to learn, and that, you know,
as a team principle, that's all you really want to hear.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's so interesting because you and I have chatted, and
I remember thinking at the time that this was something
that Liam would never be able to bring to the table.
You talked about Sergio Perez and a huge Mexican backing
and all those cans of Red Bull that can be
sold in Mexico, Yuki Sonoda with the Japanese commercial backing
and all of that. So clearly Red Bull have decided
(08:44):
that what Liam brings, the soft skills, the ability to learn,
the ability to develop, is more important than those things.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, and I think what made the decision a lot
easier was Perez probably losing Red Bull more money by
not collecting points than his sponsorship would have bought next
year right to the table. And they're just going and
in limb. And it's also they want to get back
to investing in youth. You know, they tried to bring
(09:12):
Daniel Ricciardo in but that didn't work, you know, and
they're just saying, look, we've got a junior development team.
Let's get back to promoting junior development drivers. You know,
they did it with Sebastian Vettel, They've done it with
Max the staff, and they've tried it with a couple
of others that hasn't worked. They do work on the
principle of you know how you and I probably probably
not you piny, but me, I'm but older than youth
(09:34):
who learned to swim with my mum and dad. I
was literally, not figuratively, chucked into the pool and get
to the get to the side, and you'll be okay.
That's a red Ball philosophy, is you chuck them in
and I he's just got just that's one thing Liam's got.
He may not be the fastest guy on the track,
(09:54):
you know, you know, he's no Oscar Pastri who won
every every category. You know, he raced them. But he's
a the veriusstute young man, and that's what you need
at that sport, you know, the he's the killability to
drive a car very very fast. Most of us can
do that if we spent most of our life doing
it from the age of seven. But there's that last
two to three percent. Like I know you've talked about
(10:16):
other since you shaped four point him and you said,
at that elite level of sport, it's all in the
top two percent of your head. And Liam's got that
in space.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, it seems like it. And just to finish on that, like,
I've never met Liam Lawson, but I've seen a lot
of him in media situations and you know, in racing situations,
and he just seems so unaffected by it all, so composed,
so down to earth, so key. We really, is that
actually the case? He is that authentic?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, mate, I've been lucky enough to have been interviewing
him since about two thousand and six steam maybe and
also when he went up to China and the F
three championship are there very articulate. He's a thinker, but
he's not a deep thinker. You know, he gets lost
and he goes down his own rabbit holes. He knows
what he wants and he's you know, and he's quite
single minded, but in a really good way. Unless somebody's
(11:07):
got a better option, or a better idea or a
better alternative. He has the confidence to go with what
he thinks. But he's also got the ability to listen
and go okay, that one makes more sense. He handles
the media very very well. But mind he's been doing
it for a long time. We tend to forget although
only at twenty two, he's been in the sport for
(11:27):
over ten years, you know, at quite an elite level.
And he's got some good people around him, Grant McDonald,
Dennis Martin that will help them through. He's got a
very supportive family, you know, all these again I talking
about soft skills, and it's all this great support network
around him. He doesn't have a dad that thinks he
knows better than his son. You know, his dad hasn't
(11:48):
tried to coach him. His family's made sure they put
the right people around him to mentor him and to
get him ready for everything. So now it's really here's
your chance. You've got there, paul A Pennon, go for it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
What an exciting time for him, for his family and
for motors ball fans and sports fans here in New Zealand. Et.
Twenty twenty five is going to be quite the watch
of Formula one for us all. Thanks so much for
lending us your insight, you're analysis, your expertise. Have a
great Christmas mote. We'll catch up in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, it's same to you and your family and all
your listens too, Mat. I hope they have a glorious
Christmas New Year.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, I hope so too. Et. Eric Thompson there with
some great insight until Liam Lawson and what success will
look like for him next year, what he's up against.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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