October 31, 2025 • 12 mins
The All Blacks are preparing to face Ireland in Chicago on Sunday morning.
Ireland's squad has been difficult to asses, given that their full strength side hasn't played together since the end of the Six Nations in March.
However, Rugby Analyst Brent Pope told Piney that the Irish team has historically perform well as the underdogs.
'New Zealand are in better shape...but that's not to say this game's not going to be tight. It always is, traditionally.'
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb Kinsey Tech.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That into the stands a statement wand with your blacks
they knock over the world number one and the all
Blacks in Irish hits again. Twenty three thirteen Sports they
ended Ireland. That's a fat runs in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
In nineteen here that was a year ago. A candidate
probably for best performance of the Scott Robertson Era. For
tomorrow morning, Ireland's usual captain Kaylin Doris is going to
come off the bench. He returns from a shoulder injury
that's kept him out since May, forcing him to miss
the British and Irish Lines tour of Australia. Dan Sheehan
will captain the side from hooker. When I want to
(00:54):
get a read on Irish rugby, there's one guy I
normally get in touch with. New Zealand born former rugby
player with Otago, top level coach in Ireland, best selling
author in one of Ireland's best known and most respected
rugby voices, Brent Pope. Pope be great to have the
chance to tet to you. How accurately can we assess
where Ireland are at given that their full strength side
(01:15):
hasn't played together since the end of the Six Nations
at the back end of March.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yeah, I think there's two ways of looking at that, Jason.
I know everybody's saying here, as they're probably saying in
New Zaland, that this Irish team is probably coming in
a bit undercooked, and yes, on paper they probably are.
But I sometimes think that the Irish like to have
it that way. They like to come into matches as
underdogs because when they've been favorites over the last few years,
(01:43):
they've consequently gone on to lose mo stage games. Favorites
in twenty nineteen, number one in the world, same as
going into the World Cup. You could have argued that
there were maybe favorites for that game against the All
Blacks and they come unstuck. So it's where you think
you take one game that Leinster played against mons L
where they lost heavily, that seems to be overriding everybody's
(02:04):
decision in my opinion. I've still got a pretty good pack.
I think they might be a bit weakened in the
back line, and I think yes, you'd have to say
that New Zealand are in better shape at this time
of the year. But that's not to say this game
is not going to be tight. It always is traditionally,
and I think that Andy Farrell has a good ability
to get the players up for match. He's a master
(02:27):
coach in his regards of team spurt and team camarader
and all that. He focuses on that a lot, So
he'll have the players up for this match. Don't worry
about that.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Let's drill a bit deeper into the side. Then what
do you make of the team that Andy Farrell has
name for this teast well a.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Bit of a surprise. I think he's picked that the
on form team as far as the championship over here
has concerned the ERC. Stuart McCluskey would have been one
that people may have question, but he's a big guy.
He's probably six four, one hundred and ten cage's so
I think he's been selected to do the Bundy archy role.
I think Bundy has come into the kind of last
(03:05):
year's thirty six there has come to the last years
of this kind of so he's picked like for like
in the sense because Gary Ringrose is the sort of
Conrad Smith type of player. He's a kind of thoroughbred
in the back line what they needed inside center or
second five as a bludgeon. And I think that Stuart
mcclusky's form has been good for Ulster Championship so far
and I think he probably deserves a spot he can.
(03:29):
He hasn't got as many caps as as aids suggest,
so he's probably coming into the primers careers. He's not
as overdone as probably overworked as Bundy is. But you know,
the pretty good, exciting back line. Tom O'Brien a real
speech to good in the air in particular, and that'll
be important against New Zealand because that's probably where they've
been a bit weak in their own championship. So he's
(03:51):
good in their James low course brings his rugby knowledge
from New Zealand and his big boot and then you know,
so it's a pretty good back line if they get
enough ball. But that would be the worry because I
think that Island set piece game hasn't functioned as well
for the last year in particular, so they've got to
get that right. They've got a number of world class
(04:13):
forwards in their pack, so I think they'll hold kind
of sway the whold equality in that area. I just
think that the All Blecks may be better conditioned out
wide for Ireland this time.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do you think there would have been any temptation to
bring Kaylen Doris straight back into the starting site.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Absolutely, I mean I think Kaylen Dorris is probably the
apex of world number eight and he's a fantastic player.
I watched Kaylen since he was a schoolboy. He's a
kind of a Kieran Reed type player Jason. He's very intelligent,
runs great lines, and he belies is kind of a
he's a more kind of about six' four and he's
kind of more lightweight than the kind Of Buck shelford
(04:54):
molded player of. Something but he's a very intelligent player
and he runs great. LINES i just think that it
was probably a bit of a risk to staff and
because he's obviously his conditioning despite him coming back from
injury well and training for the last two, weeks he's
not at that level yet to blame international, rugby especially
against The All. Blacks SO i think he will come
onto the pitch at some stage and he's a good
(05:15):
option to come on in the second half and the
game that comes a bit. Looser BUT i think that
they don't lose anything in their back. Row in, fact
if you looked at the back row, selections they've probably
got more experience and more dynams and in some ways
than The All blacks back, row BECAUSE i think that's
been an area of concern for me for the last
couple of. Years but The All blacks haven't settled on
(05:37):
a on a back row that they know. About Ardie
savi has gone back to. Seven Peter laki gets as
fans at eight of, course and then the number six
AND i think they've still been looking for a big
kind of number six that can take them to The World.
Cup AND i don't know whether they've quite got there,
yet but that would be something That New zealand rugby
you're looking.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
At this game's In, chicago of, course does that favor
The irish, Popy.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Well it favors of as as the. CROWD i was
there at the last, match what tea years ago or
something like, that and it was a fantastic. Occasion every
plane that's coming out Of manchester And liverpool And ireland
is going straight to that. Match So New zealand fans
will be well. Outnumbered you can expect. That so that'll
give this sort of sixteenth man In ireland's. FAVOR i
(06:22):
just think the timing of this game for The irish
team you've got it depends on whether the, players of
which there are eight of, them and the starting team
depends on whether the players come back from the lines
tore a bit, shaded or when they come back and
they've had a bit of a rest and they more
energize that that will be key because what we saw
in The Leinster monster game when we saw a lot
(06:44):
of players struggling at that that was the first game
that had come TOGETHER U so the combinations won't be
there For. Ireland and also there may be a lack
of game title top game time for some of the.
Players but that you, Know island had this ability sometimes
to just pull these games out of the hat when
they're going to going and as, underdogs people already saying over,
(07:05):
here you know they'll get. That that's just What Andy
farrell wants to. Hear he wants to hear that news
because they'll go back to the players and, say come, on,
guys you, know let's get. Up there's just one game.
Something give me all you've, Got because if you look
at their, team especially out front of the world class Front.
BURWY i, Mean Dan shean is probably up there as
the best hook in the. World Tyger burn is probably
going to be the world player this. Year is to.
(07:27):
Jest beard is a six foot six and a wonderful.
Athlete and then you've got you, Know josh vanderfle World
player of The year a couple of years. Ago so
they've a good pack and they've given some part and
get the ball in front of, them they can do some.
Damage is whether or not they can last eighty minutes
against the all black side that hopefully is going to
want to look to A Grand slam this year BECAUSE
(07:49):
i think that you, Know New zealand rugby this year
watching it over here hasn't been hugely, impressive even though
the wind record is quite. Good BUT i don't think
they've clicked just. Yet so is this the hard time
for them to? Click probably because they've picked a pretty strong.
Side stronger SIDE i think that they could have. Selected
you could argue about So tit being at number eight
(08:10):
and another couple of, positions BUT i Think quintupi deserves
his opportunity was great and that a couple of games
THAT i saw of them for The All, blacks but so,
yeah it'll BE i think it'll be tighter than people.
THINK i think that you, know there'll be one score in.
It traditionally these games have always been, tight and despite people, saying,
oh you, know The All blacks are ranked, FAVORITES i
(08:31):
don't quite see it that.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Way just to Finish popey from a wider, viewpoint where
do you evaluate Where ireland are sort of midway through
The Rugby World cup cycle as we look towards twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Seven, yeah good, question because that's what everybody's asking over.
HERE i think that that's sort of they're not as
far there's not as far in the development phase as
Say france And. England you, know those both sides would
scare me for the Next World, cup Especially england BECAUSE
i think they've got a number of young players that
(09:04):
have come through last, season the same As france did
a couple of years. Ago they've promoted a lot of
guys from their under twenty under twenty one, System SO
i think this rent great rugby is in a place
at the. Moment, IRELAND i think they're going to struggle
a bit with the age profile because you, know they
have a number of players into their early thirties that
will be a couple of years on and the Next World.
(09:26):
Cup so you're suddenly looking at guys Like Gibson park
and that being thirty four or thirty, five do they
make it to the Next World? Cup you Know, Henshaw
these guys that have been around the block a long,
time you, Know Bundy, arky these sort of players that
have been crucial at the Last World. Cup so we
don't see too many players coming through just at the.
Moment plenty Of fords and plenty of big, guys which is,
(09:48):
promising you, know plenty of athletic young guys coming through
the lens to convey a belt or coming Through. Monster
SO i think they're well the way on top of it.
THERE i just worry about certain. Positions scrum half would
be a bit of a.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Worry you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Know It's casey at that level of gets some part
Because Gibson, park as you, know it's probably been you,
know one of the top scrum halfs of the last
five years or six years playing in the world. Game
SO i don't know Whether casey fills that. Spot just.
Shit they still sort of did an argument going over.
Here who starts at out. Half is It prendergas Or? Crowley,
Yes crowley gets there this time because of his performance
(10:24):
for months or Against, leinster but there's a school of
thought that Prender gas brings a better passing game into.
It then you've got to look to the, midfield where
they don't seem to have too many kind of players
that are coming through the. Ranks and we're only two years.
Out So Andy farrell has got to probably look at
this year as being the kind of experimental year and
give some of these players games and The Six nations
(10:47):
and the next year's tour, whatever and just to see
if they're. Ready because you don't want to go into
A World cup with players only having played maybe half dozen.
Internationals do you want them going in and playing twenty
or thirty internationals between there and. Now SO i would
say sort of a six or seven out of. TEN
i would See New zealand be a bit the same
(11:07):
to be honest and say they're about the same as
six or seven out of. Ten they've still got a
few positions to nail. Down they've, scored you, know their
midfield is a bit of a bit of a worry for.
Me has been for the last couple of. Years the
composition of their back, row Which New zealand has always been,
strong and Every World cup they've won they've had a
really strong back. ROW i don't think they've quite discovered
that combination, yet But i've got two years to do
(11:30):
it soose Like, ireland BUT i put them onto the
level plagains where they.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Are it makes this test really really. Intriguing always appreciate
your terrific analysis and, Insight. Pope thanks for joining, us, Mate, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Thanks very, much and just to say it's The tiger boys.
HERE i watched got up last week and really proud
of the season they had and you, know congratulations a.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Canopy BUT i.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Think it was a cracking season all around THE. NPC
i really enjoyed it this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Year yeah us, Too Thanks. Pope Bring pope there out
Of ireland with his analysis of The irish side ahead
of This test match. Tomorrow interesting thoughts. THERE i think
you know he's, right isn't. He midway through The World cup.
CYCLE i think Both ireland and The All, blacks and
probably most of the teams in the, world with the
exception Of South, africa are just kind of finding their
(12:17):
way aren't. They and that's what you. Know if we
hang international rugby On World, cups that's what these years are. For,
yes you want to win rugby championships and Six nations
and Bleed Uslow, cups. Etc but, really you, know if
you think, back can you name the last ten winners
of The Rugby championship in? Order can you name the
(12:39):
last Ten Six nations winners in? ORDER i think most
of us can probably name every winner of The Rugby
World cup going back to nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Seven for more From Weekend sport With Jason, fine listen
live to news talks be weekends from, midday or follow
the podcast On iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb Kinsey Tech.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That into the stands a statement wand with your blacks
they knock over the world number one and the all
Blacks in Irish hits again. Twenty three thirteen Sports they
ended Ireland. That's a fat runs in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
In nineteen here that was a year ago. A candidate
probably for best performance of the Scott Robertson Era. For
tomorrow morning, Ireland's usual captain Kaylin Doris is going to
come off the bench. He returns from a shoulder injury
that's kept him out since May, forcing him to miss
the British and Irish Lines tour of Australia. Dan Sheehan
will captain the side from hooker. When I want to
(00:54):
get a read on Irish rugby, there's one guy I
normally get in touch with. New Zealand born former rugby
player with Otago, top level coach in Ireland, best selling
author in one of Ireland's best known and most respected
rugby voices, Brent Pope. Pope be great to have the
chance to tet to you. How accurately can we assess
where Ireland are at given that their full strength side
(01:15):
hasn't played together since the end of the Six Nations
at the back end of March.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yeah, I think there's two ways of looking at that, Jason.
I know everybody's saying here, as they're probably saying in
New Zaland, that this Irish team is probably coming in
a bit undercooked, and yes, on paper they probably are.
But I sometimes think that the Irish like to have
it that way. They like to come into matches as
underdogs because when they've been favorites over the last few years,
(01:43):
they've consequently gone on to lose mo stage games. Favorites
in twenty nineteen, number one in the world, same as
going into the World Cup. You could have argued that
there were maybe favorites for that game against the All
Blacks and they come unstuck. So it's where you think
you take one game that Leinster played against mons L
where they lost heavily, that seems to be overriding everybody's
(02:04):
decision in my opinion. I've still got a pretty good pack.
I think they might be a bit weakened in the
back line, and I think yes, you'd have to say
that New Zealand are in better shape at this time
of the year. But that's not to say this game
is not going to be tight. It always is traditionally,
and I think that Andy Farrell has a good ability
to get the players up for match. He's a master
(02:27):
coach in his regards of team spurt and team camarader
and all that. He focuses on that a lot, So
he'll have the players up for this match. Don't worry
about that.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Let's drill a bit deeper into the side. Then what
do you make of the team that Andy Farrell has
name for this teast well a.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Bit of a surprise. I think he's picked that the
on form team as far as the championship over here
has concerned the ERC. Stuart McCluskey would have been one
that people may have question, but he's a big guy.
He's probably six four, one hundred and ten cage's so
I think he's been selected to do the Bundy archy role.
I think Bundy has come into the kind of last
(03:05):
year's thirty six there has come to the last years
of this kind of so he's picked like for like
in the sense because Gary Ringrose is the sort of
Conrad Smith type of player. He's a kind of thoroughbred
in the back line what they needed inside center or
second five as a bludgeon. And I think that Stuart
mcclusky's form has been good for Ulster Championship so far
and I think he probably deserves a spot he can.
(03:29):
He hasn't got as many caps as as aids suggest,
so he's probably coming into the primers careers. He's not
as overdone as probably overworked as Bundy is. But you know,
the pretty good, exciting back line. Tom O'Brien a real
speech to good in the air in particular, and that'll
be important against New Zealand because that's probably where they've
been a bit weak in their own championship. So he's
(03:51):
good in their James low course brings his rugby knowledge
from New Zealand and his big boot and then you know,
so it's a pretty good back line if they get
enough ball. But that would be the worry because I
think that Island set piece game hasn't functioned as well
for the last year in particular, so they've got to
get that right. They've got a number of world class
(04:13):
forwards in their pack, so I think they'll hold kind
of sway the whold equality in that area. I just
think that the All Blecks may be better conditioned out
wide for Ireland this time.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do you think there would have been any temptation to
bring Kaylen Doris straight back into the starting site.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Absolutely, I mean I think Kaylen Dorris is probably the
apex of world number eight and he's a fantastic player.
I watched Kaylen since he was a schoolboy. He's a
kind of a Kieran Reed type player Jason. He's very intelligent,
runs great lines, and he belies is kind of a
he's a more kind of about six' four and he's
kind of more lightweight than the kind Of Buck shelford
(04:54):
molded player of. Something but he's a very intelligent player
and he runs great. LINES i just think that it
was probably a bit of a risk to staff and
because he's obviously his conditioning despite him coming back from
injury well and training for the last two, weeks he's
not at that level yet to blame international, rugby especially
against The All. Blacks SO i think he will come
onto the pitch at some stage and he's a good
(05:15):
option to come on in the second half and the
game that comes a bit. Looser BUT i think that
they don't lose anything in their back. Row in, fact
if you looked at the back row, selections they've probably
got more experience and more dynams and in some ways
than The All blacks back, row BECAUSE i think that's
been an area of concern for me for the last
couple of. Years but The All blacks haven't settled on
(05:37):
a on a back row that they know. About Ardie
savi has gone back to. Seven Peter laki gets as
fans at eight of, course and then the number six
AND i think they've still been looking for a big
kind of number six that can take them to The World.
Cup AND i don't know whether they've quite got there,
yet but that would be something That New zealand rugby
you're looking.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
At this game's In, chicago of, course does that favor
The irish, Popy.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Well it favors of as as the. CROWD i was
there at the last, match what tea years ago or
something like, that and it was a fantastic. Occasion every
plane that's coming out Of manchester And liverpool And ireland
is going straight to that. Match So New zealand fans
will be well. Outnumbered you can expect. That so that'll
give this sort of sixteenth man In ireland's. FAVOR i
(06:22):
just think the timing of this game for The irish
team you've got it depends on whether the, players of
which there are eight of, them and the starting team
depends on whether the players come back from the lines
tore a bit, shaded or when they come back and
they've had a bit of a rest and they more
energize that that will be key because what we saw
in The Leinster monster game when we saw a lot
(06:44):
of players struggling at that that was the first game
that had come TOGETHER U so the combinations won't be
there For. Ireland and also there may be a lack
of game title top game time for some of the.
Players but that you, Know island had this ability sometimes
to just pull these games out of the hat when
they're going to going and as, underdogs people already saying over,
(07:05):
here you know they'll get. That that's just What Andy
farrell wants to. Hear he wants to hear that news
because they'll go back to the players and, say come, on,
guys you, know let's get. Up there's just one game.
Something give me all you've, Got because if you look
at their, team especially out front of the world class Front.
BURWY i, Mean Dan shean is probably up there as
the best hook in the. World Tyger burn is probably
going to be the world player this. Year is to.
(07:27):
Jest beard is a six foot six and a wonderful.
Athlete and then you've got you, Know josh vanderfle World
player of The year a couple of years. Ago so
they've a good pack and they've given some part and
get the ball in front of, them they can do some.
Damage is whether or not they can last eighty minutes
against the all black side that hopefully is going to
want to look to A Grand slam this year BECAUSE
(07:49):
i think that you, Know New zealand rugby this year
watching it over here hasn't been hugely, impressive even though
the wind record is quite. Good BUT i don't think
they've clicked just. Yet so is this the hard time
for them to? Click probably because they've picked a pretty strong.
Side stronger SIDE i think that they could have. Selected
you could argue about So tit being at number eight
(08:10):
and another couple of, positions BUT i Think quintupi deserves
his opportunity was great and that a couple of games
THAT i saw of them for The All, blacks but so,
yeah it'll BE i think it'll be tighter than people.
THINK i think that you, know there'll be one score in.
It traditionally these games have always been, tight and despite people, saying,
oh you, know The All blacks are ranked, FAVORITES i
(08:31):
don't quite see it that.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Way just to Finish popey from a wider, viewpoint where
do you evaluate Where ireland are sort of midway through
The Rugby World cup cycle as we look towards twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Seven, yeah good, question because that's what everybody's asking over.
HERE i think that that's sort of they're not as
far there's not as far in the development phase as
Say france And. England you, know those both sides would
scare me for the Next World, cup Especially england BECAUSE
i think they've got a number of young players that
(09:04):
have come through last, season the same As france did
a couple of years. Ago they've promoted a lot of
guys from their under twenty under twenty one, System SO
i think this rent great rugby is in a place
at the. Moment, IRELAND i think they're going to struggle
a bit with the age profile because you, know they
have a number of players into their early thirties that
will be a couple of years on and the Next World.
(09:26):
Cup so you're suddenly looking at guys Like Gibson park
and that being thirty four or thirty, five do they
make it to the Next World? Cup you Know, Henshaw
these guys that have been around the block a long,
time you, Know Bundy, arky these sort of players that
have been crucial at the Last World. Cup so we
don't see too many players coming through just at the.
Moment plenty Of fords and plenty of big, guys which is,
(09:48):
promising you, know plenty of athletic young guys coming through
the lens to convey a belt or coming Through. Monster
SO i think they're well the way on top of it.
THERE i just worry about certain. Positions scrum half would
be a bit of a.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Worry you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Know It's casey at that level of gets some part
Because Gibson, park as you, know it's probably been you,
know one of the top scrum halfs of the last
five years or six years playing in the world. Game
SO i don't know Whether casey fills that. Spot just.
Shit they still sort of did an argument going over.
Here who starts at out. Half is It prendergas Or? Crowley,
Yes crowley gets there this time because of his performance
(10:24):
for months or Against, leinster but there's a school of
thought that Prender gas brings a better passing game into.
It then you've got to look to the, midfield where
they don't seem to have too many kind of players
that are coming through the. Ranks and we're only two years.
Out So Andy farrell has got to probably look at
this year as being the kind of experimental year and
give some of these players games and The Six nations
(10:47):
and the next year's tour, whatever and just to see
if they're. Ready because you don't want to go into
A World cup with players only having played maybe half dozen.
Internationals do you want them going in and playing twenty
or thirty internationals between there and. Now SO i would
say sort of a six or seven out of. TEN
i would See New zealand be a bit the same
(11:07):
to be honest and say they're about the same as
six or seven out of. Ten they've still got a
few positions to nail. Down they've, scored you, know their
midfield is a bit of a bit of a worry for.
Me has been for the last couple of. Years the
composition of their back, row Which New zealand has always been,
strong and Every World cup they've won they've had a
really strong back. ROW i don't think they've quite discovered
that combination, yet But i've got two years to do
(11:30):
it soose Like, ireland BUT i put them onto the
level plagains where they.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Are it makes this test really really. Intriguing always appreciate
your terrific analysis and, Insight. Pope thanks for joining, us, Mate, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Thanks very, much and just to say it's The tiger boys.
HERE i watched got up last week and really proud
of the season they had and you, know congratulations a.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Canopy BUT i.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Think it was a cracking season all around THE. NPC
i really enjoyed it this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Year yeah us, Too Thanks. Pope Bring pope there out
Of ireland with his analysis of The irish side ahead
of This test match. Tomorrow interesting thoughts. THERE i think
you know he's, right isn't. He midway through The World cup.
CYCLE i think Both ireland and The All, blacks and
probably most of the teams in the, world with the
exception Of South, africa are just kind of finding their
(12:17):
way aren't. They and that's what you. Know if we
hang international rugby On World, cups that's what these years are. For,
yes you want to win rugby championships and Six nations
and Bleed Uslow, cups. Etc but, really you, know if
you think, back can you name the last ten winners
of The Rugby championship in? Order can you name the
(12:39):
last Ten Six nations winners in? ORDER i think most
of us can probably name every winner of The Rugby
World cup going back to nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Seven for more From Weekend sport With Jason, fine listen
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