November 28, 2025 • 14 mins
With the conclusion of the 2025 All Blacks season, it’s time for some scrutiny.
The year was filled with a mixed bag of performances, all of which will be analysed in the end of year reviews.
Coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith told Piney the question is whether what we're seeing is a team building towards greatness in two years, or a team that’s lost the plot.
Once that’s been nailed down, he says, that’s when you figure out what needs to be changed, when, and how you’ll know if that works.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb Lee reached the midway point of the Rugby World
Cup cycle and the.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Curtain comes down on season twenty twenty five for the
All Blacks, No brand Slam, three losses, Ken wins, final
score fifty two to twenty six and Cardiff.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So we're done, All done for twenty twenty five. The
end of season review for the All Blacks will now commence.
In fact, it may already have. So what is the
best approach to something like this? Do you rebuild or
do you continue to build? Do you change nothing? Do
you change everything? Do you change some things? And if
it's the last one, what do you change? And how
(00:55):
do you know were you going to get your biggest
bang for buck. Let's get some expert insight into this
from coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith, a regular contributor to Weekend
Sports and a real font of knowledge when it comes
to this sort of thing, Wayne, can we look at
those three options? Change everything, change nothing, or change some things.
(01:17):
If you change nothing, is that even an option these
days to do nothing, to just keep on doing the
same things you know? Or is it actually an option.
I'm not saying that the all Blacks case, but if
something isn't broke, do you really not need to fix it?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's twenty It's such a fascinating concept to consider, isn't so?
For example, if someone said to me, Wayne, we've recruited
you in twenty twenty eight to win some Olympic gold
medals in twenty thirty two, medially, my brain is saying, look,
I'm going to build progressively over the first year two years.
(01:56):
Then we're going to refine some elements because I want
to be at my peak on that day in that
place in.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Twenty thirty two.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Whether I show what we're doing or give away too
much in the lead up, that's an issue for debate.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
And I think, just looking at Spring Tour at.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The moment, that's the question I've got is how many
of the teams say all black spring box wallabies to
a certain extent, how many of them are on a
path that they've put in place two years ago or
even earlier with the aim of peaking, and they believe
that they're on track. How many of them have got
(02:34):
to sit back and go, well, I know we said
we're going to do that and I know we're going
to focus on a defensive game or an attacking game
or a counter attacking game. How many of them go,
I know, we said that, but it's just not working.
Two years is enough time for us to change.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
And some of it is. You know, I look at
it and think, is what we're seeing? What we're seeing?
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So are we seeing a true reflection of teams building
towards greatness in two years? Are we seeing teams that
have just lost the plot and don't know? And what
then as a result? What needs to be changed? How
does it need to be changed? When does it need
to be changed?
Speaker 5 (03:11):
And how will I know even if that works? Is
the Spring tour, for.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Example, the benchmark and the guide to see whether or
not our plan for two years is on place? Is
that the Southern Hemisphere competitions. These are huge questions that
everyone's battling with at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The big picture is such an interesting topic for me
because you know, in rugby circles, international rugby circles, big
picture is the Rugby World Cup. But in these days
of instant gratification, particularly as you know Wayne over here,
whether all Blacks are expected to win every single test match,
they play. How challenging is it to keep your eyes
on the big picture.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, it's part of I think also being confident and
and comfortable in the vision and the plans that you
put in place when you took over the job. So
when you came in and said, look, I'm very confident
we've got this staff, the leadership, the funding, the players
to be really successful in Rugby World Cup. But it's
(04:13):
going to take a bit of time because the Irish
have really picked up. We've got two time defending World championships.
In the South Africans, we're seeing some growth in Argentina
and the competition's got tougher and even as we've seen
a little bit with France. So we're confident we can
be right in four years, but we may not be
absolutely sharpen out our best until that last eighteen months.
(04:37):
And you've got to be able to sell that to
the board. You've got to be able to sell that
to the fans, to the media, and to the players
and to the provincial union. You to be able to
sell it to everybody to say, yeah, sure we'd like
to be winning, but we are faith in you.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
We know that you're heading in the right direction. We've
seen your bigger.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Vision, and it's okay that you're not winning everything right
now because we want that Rugby World Club desperately in
two years, and they'll give you a little bit of slack.
I think if you haven't sold your vision, well, people
start chipping away.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
And you know, of course it's interesting, isn't it. You know,
it don't matter what's going wrong. What's the solution? Sack
the head coach. It could be it doesn't matter what's
going wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That's always the first solution that people will turn to.
And if the head coach has got a great vision
for peaking at the right time and dominating the next
Rugby World Cup, when second next the head coach would
be the dumbest thing you could do. And that's the trick,
isn't it? Is what do I need to keep doing?
What do I need to stop doing? And then what
(05:38):
do I need to introduce? Is there anything new that
I can bring in that's going to make a big difference.
The problem we're changing too many things, Pinteer is the
players start the panic. If you go, hey, guys, I
know I sold you the vision, and I know we
talked about this master plan and peaking in the next.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Rugby World Cup. And I know I told you that,
but I'm going to change one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Sixties because you've got to be really careful, because if
you've got that high sense of ball leave from the
team that what you're doing.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Is right and it's going to everything's going to come
good and the rosy in the Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And you start to change things too dramatically, now will
they start to think, Hang on a minute, what are
we following this guy for? He told us and we
believed in it, and now he's changing everything about the team.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
So even if you come up with the right.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Solution, you've got to be very clever and very strategic
about how you introduce the change.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
All right, I want to come to that in a minute.
The option of changing some things. But over here we'
and you alluded to it there, you know, complete change,
the nuclear option, as it's called. Over here, we change
the coaching staff completely. We sacked the head coach and
in the next two years we put faith in somebody else.
(06:56):
When and how do you know if that is actually
an option?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Well, that's dearly. That's the purpose of reviews.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I know when I do reviews now, whether it's NRL
or professional teams, Olympic sports, it takes me a week
or so, and most of the time I'm just talking
to people and you start to get a feel for
what do people feel?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
So what are they Because you know, it's sport pointing,
We're rarely.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Dealing with logic. We can throw stats and data at people,
but so much of this industry is what are people
for you? What do people think? We can throw all
the data you're like, you can say, look, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Defense is slowly improving ball retentions, improving breakdowns and getting but.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
He's the data to prove it.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
But if the players and the staff and the people
around the team don't believe it and they're not feeling it,
then that all the data in the world's not going
to make any difference.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
That's that's a critical thing.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So I like to go and get a feel and
an understanding what what people think, believe and feel before
I look at the data.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And that's really important. So I would be I would
be imagining that they're.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Going through that process now and when to get real
understanding for exactly you know that great line no good
coming up with a great solution to the wrong problem,
and I think doing the nuclear option. You know, I
would do the nuclear option if I could show that
everything was falling apart. So if the coaches had lost
(08:24):
the faith of the change room, if our data was
going terribly, if staff and players were saying, look, this
is just the wrong way to go, we don't believe
in them, if there was real obvious of internal politics,
if there was a disconnect with the player group, if
there were a lot of things wrong, then of course
you've got to look at big solutions when there's big problems.
(08:45):
But I rarely see that rarely, So usually it's it's
it's just little things that need tweaking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
All right, Well let's go to that then, because I
get the feeling that's what they'll do. They won't, you know,
the decision makers say, right, keep on doing what you're doing,
because clearly there are still you know, some some gaps
and performance. They're not going to I don't think it
to the coaching staff. So let's go to option three.
You change some things. So how do you know, how
do you decide what to change what not to change.
(09:14):
Do you look at what the opposition are doing? Do
you stick true to your own path. How do you know, Wane,
where you're going to get your biggest bang for buck
in changing some things?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, I think with you guys made you And I've
had a few laughs about this over the years, is
that my view of New Zealander is generally in sport,
is you just don't have enough faith in yourself. When
I was in Canada recently and then Ireland and England,
the all Blacks.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
The respect and the esteem.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And the way they're looked at not just as a team,
but their culture and their history of excellence. And if
you read an Ocus new book, I mean it's just
whether you're winning on this spring too. You have been
the benchmark for one hundred and twenty years and never
forget that. I think that the biggest danger Pone is
you go, you know what, the Irish really came at
(10:10):
us here, here and here We've got to change because
that's what the Irish are doing. Or you go to
the South Africans, they will like steam rollers. We've got
to change because that's what the South Africans are doing.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
That's dumb, dumb, dumb.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
The reason that you guys are respected so much around
the world and have been and will always be in
my view, is because you play like your places. It's
a relentless, remorseless, fast, highly technical. The way you play
is what everyone else spends their time trying to figure
out how to beat you. And the big mistake you
(10:46):
would make if I was again tied up with your
Black Seas. Don't shift from always from being what I
call the hunted, the thinking you're now you're just hunters.
You are still considered the benchmark, the one that everyone
wants to beat around the world. So the changes need
to be New Zealand changes. They need to be, well,
(11:08):
what do we do well when we're playing and dominating?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
What is it about us?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Relentless counter attack, incredibly powerful defense, acceleration and speed to
break down, brilliant attacking play, incredible accuracy with our kicking game.
They're the things that have made the All Blacks exceptional
for so long. If you're going to make changes, make
New Zealand changes. Don't get sucked in to thinking, well,
(11:36):
we'll steal that from South Africa, and we'll pinch that
from the Poems, and will steal that from Ireland?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Does it no?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But that would be the single biggest mistake you can
may have faith in yourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Just to finish. Then if you and I are chatting
a year from now, and I'm sure we will be,
and it's a year out from the World Cup and
the All Blacks are still off crack a little bit,
there are still work ons. Is November twenty twenty six
too late to be ready for November twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Look, I think what I know of the coaching staff,
and I would think you would have and I call it.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I call it the success flow chart.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I would go, right, what do we need to do
right here, right now to have a great December? General
obviously plays I'll have a break before they go back
to super ruggy.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
But but I would.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Go, all right, Plan A is we stay on track,
we switch a few little things, and then we are
reassessed this time next year. Plan A is, if we're
going better, we do this, Plan B. If we're going
the same, we do this Plan C. If we're going
really down on the train, we do this. I would
(12:49):
think you need three plans ready and lined up to
go so that this time next year, no matter what
discussion you're on I are having, that they're not starting
from scratching, going oh, my god, what the hell do.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
We Sorry, that's swear when, but what do we do?
You know, what do we do?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
If you get to this time next year and you
don't have alternative paths, then that's when the organization will
force it on you. That's when you see those catastrophive
decisions like boards saying, right, you guys are all out.
We're bringing everybody in no matter what happens, highly successful
same as we are now, or catastrophic failures. I would
(13:29):
suggest very strongly the coaching staff and the leadership, you've
got to have three plans up your sleeve so that
you can come back from spring tour and go right.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
It didn't work.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Quite the way we thought, we're still in treck bank
and Plan B is already in place. I would probably
even have some shadow staff kicking in Plan B and
see a little bit behind the scenes, so that if
you've got to make a last minute change, they were
already doing it. They're already We've already had that as
a contingency plan if this happens. And I know it's
counterintuitive because people say no, a high performance, totally committed,
(14:02):
uncompromising dedication to one plan.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
That's not the real world.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
You've got to be adaptable, flexible and ready to switch
regardless of what happens to you. And I mean the
Kuweez are still made to my mind, they're just a benchmark,
and they're smart enough to know that that they'll have
three planes up this sleep and they'll have one in play,
and I'll have two ready to go no matter what happens,
(14:27):
so that they're firing in Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Well, all Blacks fans listening across our country, we'll certainly
hope that you're right.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Terrific insight is always from you on a fascinating topic.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Let's stay in touch, look forward to catching up again soon.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Always a pleasure, my friend.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Thank you mate. That is Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot
com incidentally is his website, just a plethora of amazing
insight and information on there. Wayne always brings good insight.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZB weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb Lee reached the midway point of the Rugby World
Cup cycle and the.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Curtain comes down on season twenty twenty five for the
All Blacks, No brand Slam, three losses, Ken wins, final
score fifty two to twenty six and Cardiff.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So we're done, All done for twenty twenty five. The
end of season review for the All Blacks will now commence.
In fact, it may already have. So what is the
best approach to something like this? Do you rebuild or
do you continue to build? Do you change nothing? Do
you change everything? Do you change some things? And if
it's the last one, what do you change? And how
(00:55):
do you know were you going to get your biggest
bang for buck. Let's get some expert insight into this
from coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith, a regular contributor to Weekend
Sports and a real font of knowledge when it comes
to this sort of thing, Wayne, can we look at
those three options? Change everything, change nothing, or change some things.
(01:17):
If you change nothing, is that even an option these
days to do nothing, to just keep on doing the
same things you know? Or is it actually an option.
I'm not saying that the all Blacks case, but if
something isn't broke, do you really not need to fix it?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's twenty It's such a fascinating concept to consider, isn't so?
For example, if someone said to me, Wayne, we've recruited
you in twenty twenty eight to win some Olympic gold
medals in twenty thirty two, medially, my brain is saying, look,
I'm going to build progressively over the first year two years.
(01:56):
Then we're going to refine some elements because I want
to be at my peak on that day in that
place in.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Twenty thirty two.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Whether I show what we're doing or give away too
much in the lead up, that's an issue for debate.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
And I think, just looking at Spring Tour at.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The moment, that's the question I've got is how many
of the teams say all black spring box wallabies to
a certain extent, how many of them are on a
path that they've put in place two years ago or
even earlier with the aim of peaking, and they believe
that they're on track. How many of them have got
(02:34):
to sit back and go, well, I know we said
we're going to do that and I know we're going
to focus on a defensive game or an attacking game
or a counter attacking game. How many of them go,
I know, we said that, but it's just not working.
Two years is enough time for us to change.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
And some of it is. You know, I look at
it and think, is what we're seeing? What we're seeing?
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So are we seeing a true reflection of teams building
towards greatness in two years? Are we seeing teams that
have just lost the plot and don't know? And what
then as a result? What needs to be changed? How
does it need to be changed? When does it need
to be changed?
Speaker 5 (03:11):
And how will I know even if that works? Is
the Spring tour, for.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Example, the benchmark and the guide to see whether or
not our plan for two years is on place? Is
that the Southern Hemisphere competitions. These are huge questions that
everyone's battling with at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The big picture is such an interesting topic for me
because you know, in rugby circles, international rugby circles, big
picture is the Rugby World Cup. But in these days
of instant gratification, particularly as you know Wayne over here,
whether all Blacks are expected to win every single test match,
they play. How challenging is it to keep your eyes
on the big picture.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, it's part of I think also being confident and
and comfortable in the vision and the plans that you
put in place when you took over the job. So
when you came in and said, look, I'm very confident
we've got this staff, the leadership, the funding, the players
to be really successful in Rugby World Cup. But it's
(04:13):
going to take a bit of time because the Irish
have really picked up. We've got two time defending World championships.
In the South Africans, we're seeing some growth in Argentina
and the competition's got tougher and even as we've seen
a little bit with France. So we're confident we can
be right in four years, but we may not be
absolutely sharpen out our best until that last eighteen months.
(04:37):
And you've got to be able to sell that to
the board. You've got to be able to sell that
to the fans, to the media, and to the players
and to the provincial union. You to be able to
sell it to everybody to say, yeah, sure we'd like
to be winning, but we are faith in you.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
We know that you're heading in the right direction. We've
seen your bigger.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Vision, and it's okay that you're not winning everything right
now because we want that Rugby World Club desperately in
two years, and they'll give you a little bit of slack.
I think if you haven't sold your vision, well, people
start chipping away.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
And you know, of course it's interesting, isn't it. You know,
it don't matter what's going wrong. What's the solution? Sack
the head coach. It could be it doesn't matter what's
going wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That's always the first solution that people will turn to.
And if the head coach has got a great vision
for peaking at the right time and dominating the next
Rugby World Cup, when second next the head coach would
be the dumbest thing you could do. And that's the trick,
isn't it? Is what do I need to keep doing?
What do I need to stop doing? And then what
(05:38):
do I need to introduce? Is there anything new that
I can bring in that's going to make a big difference.
The problem we're changing too many things, Pinteer is the
players start the panic. If you go, hey, guys, I
know I sold you the vision, and I know we
talked about this master plan and peaking in the next.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Rugby World Cup. And I know I told you that,
but I'm going to change one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Sixties because you've got to be really careful, because if
you've got that high sense of ball leave from the
team that what you're doing.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Is right and it's going to everything's going to come
good and the rosy in the Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And you start to change things too dramatically, now will
they start to think, Hang on a minute, what are
we following this guy for? He told us and we
believed in it, and now he's changing everything about the team.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
So even if you come up with the right.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Solution, you've got to be very clever and very strategic
about how you introduce the change.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
All right, I want to come to that in a minute.
The option of changing some things. But over here we'
and you alluded to it there, you know, complete change,
the nuclear option, as it's called. Over here, we change
the coaching staff completely. We sacked the head coach and
in the next two years we put faith in somebody else.
(06:56):
When and how do you know if that is actually
an option?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Well, that's dearly. That's the purpose of reviews.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I know when I do reviews now, whether it's NRL
or professional teams, Olympic sports, it takes me a week
or so, and most of the time I'm just talking
to people and you start to get a feel for
what do people feel?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
So what are they Because you know, it's sport pointing,
We're rarely.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Dealing with logic. We can throw stats and data at people,
but so much of this industry is what are people
for you? What do people think? We can throw all
the data you're like, you can say, look, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Defense is slowly improving ball retentions, improving breakdowns and getting but.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
He's the data to prove it.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
But if the players and the staff and the people
around the team don't believe it and they're not feeling it,
then that all the data in the world's not going
to make any difference.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
That's that's a critical thing.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So I like to go and get a feel and
an understanding what what people think, believe and feel before
I look at the data.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And that's really important. So I would be I would
be imagining that they're.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Going through that process now and when to get real
understanding for exactly you know that great line no good
coming up with a great solution to the wrong problem,
and I think doing the nuclear option. You know, I
would do the nuclear option if I could show that
everything was falling apart. So if the coaches had lost
(08:24):
the faith of the change room, if our data was
going terribly, if staff and players were saying, look, this
is just the wrong way to go, we don't believe
in them, if there was real obvious of internal politics,
if there was a disconnect with the player group, if
there were a lot of things wrong, then of course
you've got to look at big solutions when there's big problems.
(08:45):
But I rarely see that rarely, So usually it's it's
it's just little things that need tweaking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
All right, Well let's go to that then, because I
get the feeling that's what they'll do. They won't, you know,
the decision makers say, right, keep on doing what you're doing,
because clearly there are still you know, some some gaps
and performance. They're not going to I don't think it
to the coaching staff. So let's go to option three.
You change some things. So how do you know, how
do you decide what to change what not to change.
(09:14):
Do you look at what the opposition are doing? Do
you stick true to your own path. How do you know, Wane,
where you're going to get your biggest bang for buck
in changing some things?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, I think with you guys made you And I've
had a few laughs about this over the years, is
that my view of New Zealander is generally in sport,
is you just don't have enough faith in yourself. When
I was in Canada recently and then Ireland and England,
the all Blacks.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
The respect and the esteem.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And the way they're looked at not just as a team,
but their culture and their history of excellence. And if
you read an Ocus new book, I mean it's just
whether you're winning on this spring too. You have been
the benchmark for one hundred and twenty years and never
forget that. I think that the biggest danger Pone is
you go, you know what, the Irish really came at
(10:10):
us here, here and here We've got to change because
that's what the Irish are doing. Or you go to
the South Africans, they will like steam rollers. We've got
to change because that's what the South Africans are doing.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
That's dumb, dumb, dumb.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
The reason that you guys are respected so much around
the world and have been and will always be in
my view, is because you play like your places. It's
a relentless, remorseless, fast, highly technical. The way you play
is what everyone else spends their time trying to figure
out how to beat you. And the big mistake you
(10:46):
would make if I was again tied up with your
Black Seas. Don't shift from always from being what I
call the hunted, the thinking you're now you're just hunters.
You are still considered the benchmark, the one that everyone
wants to beat around the world. So the changes need
to be New Zealand changes. They need to be, well,
(11:08):
what do we do well when we're playing and dominating?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
What is it about us?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Relentless counter attack, incredibly powerful defense, acceleration and speed to
break down, brilliant attacking play, incredible accuracy with our kicking game.
They're the things that have made the All Blacks exceptional
for so long. If you're going to make changes, make
New Zealand changes. Don't get sucked in to thinking, well,
(11:36):
we'll steal that from South Africa, and we'll pinch that
from the Poems, and will steal that from Ireland?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Does it no?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But that would be the single biggest mistake you can
may have faith in yourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Just to finish. Then if you and I are chatting
a year from now, and I'm sure we will be,
and it's a year out from the World Cup and
the All Blacks are still off crack a little bit,
there are still work ons. Is November twenty twenty six
too late to be ready for November twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Look, I think what I know of the coaching staff,
and I would think you would have and I call it.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I call it the success flow chart.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I would go, right, what do we need to do
right here, right now to have a great December? General
obviously plays I'll have a break before they go back
to super ruggy.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
But but I would.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Go, all right, Plan A is we stay on track,
we switch a few little things, and then we are
reassessed this time next year. Plan A is, if we're
going better, we do this, Plan B. If we're going
the same, we do this Plan C. If we're going
really down on the train, we do this. I would
(12:49):
think you need three plans ready and lined up to
go so that this time next year, no matter what
discussion you're on I are having, that they're not starting
from scratching, going oh, my god, what the hell do.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
We Sorry, that's swear when, but what do we do?
You know, what do we do?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
If you get to this time next year and you
don't have alternative paths, then that's when the organization will
force it on you. That's when you see those catastrophive
decisions like boards saying, right, you guys are all out.
We're bringing everybody in no matter what happens, highly successful
same as we are now, or catastrophic failures. I would
(13:29):
suggest very strongly the coaching staff and the leadership, you've
got to have three plans up your sleeve so that
you can come back from spring tour and go right.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
It didn't work.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Quite the way we thought, we're still in treck bank
and Plan B is already in place. I would probably
even have some shadow staff kicking in Plan B and
see a little bit behind the scenes, so that if
you've got to make a last minute change, they were
already doing it. They're already We've already had that as
a contingency plan if this happens. And I know it's
counterintuitive because people say no, a high performance, totally committed,
(14:02):
uncompromising dedication to one plan.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
That's not the real world.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
You've got to be adaptable, flexible and ready to switch
regardless of what happens to you. And I mean the
Kuweez are still made to my mind, they're just a benchmark,
and they're smart enough to know that that they'll have
three planes up this sleep and they'll have one in play,
and I'll have two ready to go no matter what happens,
(14:27):
so that they're firing in Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Well, all Blacks fans listening across our country, we'll certainly
hope that you're right.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Terrific insight is always from you on a fascinating topic.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Let's stay in touch, look forward to catching up again soon.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Always a pleasure, my friend.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Thank you mate. That is Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot
com incidentally is his website, just a plethora of amazing
insight and information on there. Wayne always brings good insight.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZB weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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