November 29, 2025 • 28 mins
On tonights show, Roman spoke to many people who have memories and experiences with the Mt Erebus disaster. We couldn't pick just one.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News TALKSB follow this
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi James, Well, Hi ramand thanks for the opportunity to
talk to you. Now. I go back a little bit
and on nineteen seventy seven, I was leading a small
team from a university research program around the Ross Island
and then across into the Dry Valley areas. Wow. And
(00:38):
we were heading up from Scott Base with a two
motor Boggs each once towing a sledge with all our
gear as myself and in my three people, and we're
sitting across the sea ice and we came into the
bay where there's Mount Air of Us and just in
that same bay as where Scott's hut at Cape Evans's,
(01:02):
and a little further on were we're heading was Cape
Royd where Shacklan's huts. So I've been through both of
those huts. But it was an abs it is stunning
day and we heard this sound of a plane. I
looked up there and here was the in New Zealand
DC ten flying right over us or just a bit
to the left of us. And what's called the Dirty configuration,
which was partial flaps down, undercarriage down and really slow,
(01:26):
and we all waved out, so I might well be
on people with cameras, And it was an absolute stunning day.
We could see Mount Erebus straight across the sea ice,
beautiful blue sky standing out in white and water, the
Puma white smoke coming out of the out of the
volcano summit, and I guess the aircraft it's a bit
(01:47):
hard to tell, maybe five hundred one thousand feet above
above a sea ice, very very flat and of course
well well lower than the slopes of Erebus. And we
all waved to and then it just later on put
us undercarriage up and on and then climbed away. But
what was what I'm really coming to as well? The
previous listeners tonight talked about the change in white out,
(02:11):
So within about or half an hour, the weather changed
and we were in total whiteout conditions and we couldn't
see any more than a few meters in front of us,
and didn't matter which way you look at, We're just white.
And that's just what happens so quickly, from an absolutely
stunning day to a complete white out. So I just
(02:32):
make those two comments, and I thought people might be interested.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, very much so, even though and I'm not a pilot,
I wouldn't. I can't think of anything worse In conditions
like that, you're very much relying on the instruments when
it gets to that whiteout condition. But you've got something
telling you, right, you've got something yelling at you, telling
you what altitude you're at. But they had the wrong well,
you know, a different flight path.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
No, yes, so what happens actually on the pilot myself,
but only private pilot, so I mean flying for forty
odd years. No, what actually happens there is they were
descending under visual conditions, which is fine. You can go
down to the minimum save the altitude. I'm not sure
what that is in the DC ten, but they were
clearly flying quite low and probably close to that altitude,
(03:20):
which is fine. That's perfectly okay, and you can see
because you're in visual, but if you're on instruments, and
of course you have to fly of our instruments, and
the problem down there, there's limited navigation age and this
was long before there are days of GPS, and the
problem was if you look at Mount Erebus from where
we were standing, you have the peak and then on
the north side you have that slow slope, and when
(03:43):
they were descending, they were flying the designated flight descent plan,
which is kind of like a race course type process.
But they were descending down they thought they were over
the sea ice, where in fact you could descend down
further hoping to actually break visual to give the people
(04:04):
the passengers of you because you don't know how low
the white out is because there's nobody down on the
ground to ten. But clearly they weren't. They were They
were several miles further east and they just descended straight
down on the slopes of parabus. Was as simple as that.
So it was just there was just a tragic there
were just the wrong coordinates were put in the nav
system and the fact that the fact that that was
(04:27):
that the pilot was just doing he was just descending
down as you normally do, thinking he was over the
sea ice, and that was it. So that's what I
wanted to say. But the other thing too, which has
also affected this, his student who did his masters with
me on on a study in Antarctica, and he was
(04:48):
a keen mountain knee and he was one of the
guys who was actually asked to go as a mountaineer
up to with the safety people on the with the
rescue squads. So he was one of the first on
the scene as well. So I had a few chats
with him. It's pretty pretty horrendous.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well that he wouldn't have been trained with the recovery
of bodies, would he say that would have been.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, yeah, no, no. He was there a very experienced
mountaineer looking for crevasses and marking out the crevasses and
making it safe because you know, the slopes there would
be littered with cravases and so you certainly didn't want
to lose anybody down to cravass. Yeah, so that was
a safety thing. So yeah, so that and then interestingly
(05:27):
that that was the year before, it was about December
in seventy seven, and then when we were home it
obviously I was back home and in December seventy eight
when the November seventy eighth, sorry, when the accident actually happened,
and we were sitting in the watching the news and
they said to my wife, I said, I don't like
(05:47):
the sound of this at all. When the news came over,
and then the thing dread on and on, and I
just said, look, I don't think there anybody will come
out of this, and unfortunately, you know we were right.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yes, and Clelly, you were old enough at the time
to recall the orchestrated listening of lies. Did that make
you angry that ongoing process?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah? It was Actually I didn't. Yeah, I mean it's
all history now. But having been down there and you know,
being a pilot myself and just know how these things
actually happen, and actually since experienced the aircraft flying over
the top of us on absolute stunning day, you can
just see how it all came together, and effectively it
(06:29):
came together because of the wrong coordinates given to the
into the NEV system. Yeah, it's just well, well that
that's my thoughts anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
No, that's fine. And Jane's what were you what were
you studying?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm actually a chemist, du chemist. When we were looking
at the geochemistry, it's a very interesting geochemistry, and this
was the days of early Antarctic expiration, the science side
of things, and the the dry Valleys area where the
solar heated saline lakes, and then around Cape Royds where
this very interesting mineral deposits. We were looking at those
(07:06):
and just mapping them and trying to understand what was
going on.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Well, it's a very special, a very special place for
you to be and what a great, great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yes, I've had Yeah, I've had two summer seasons there
so and I look back, I've got lots and lots
of slides, and I looked back with break fond. So
that's why I really wanted to ring up and just say, hey,
you know this is my experience. Yeah, and I've seen
the aircraft flying over and I've experienced white House.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, I'm really glad that you did call James. It's
a I could I could almost see what you were
talking about, very very well. Told your story, good times,
great memories in my day with Romans us talk z
b HY Andrew.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yes, good evening, Andrew, Yes, thank you for having us on.
And first of all, like to say thank you for
just the bringing this to the service and giving people
a voice. I think that's brought into the station and
much appreciated.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Oh, you're very welcome.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
And also just very quickly to say thank you to
James the pilot. A number of the once he made
especially for people that have no recollection or weren't alive
there that are your listeners. He made some very poignant
marks that were right on the money. And I speak
as a family member of one of the crew and
(08:24):
a friend to a number of the crew, and also
lost two friends as passengers, so it's a big one
for our family. And I have to say if I
get a bit jaded talking to you, it's been a
long three days with the memorials and the things that
were announced last week. But yeah, the friend Rangon said
(08:46):
you should bring zeed V and talk to thank you
for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Look, I'm hesitant to ask you too many questions about
your connections to those people, but feel free to talk
about them if you want to.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Andrew, No, you can fire away, mate, I have to say,
and I'm straight up about it, man, I've shed a
lot of tears in the last couple of days. I've
been in contact with a number of the other families,
including Captain Collin's family, have posted a number of things
within the Erabas family site and also sent today a
(09:25):
big message of thanks through to the New Zealand Police Force,
pretty much naming all their main staff that were down there.
They are also so forgotten. They were probably more forgotten
than the passengers and crew in a lot of ways,
and I think it's important that people remember them. They
(09:47):
were heroes as well.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
How many how many police were sent down initially and
then over the next.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Few days there was a team of eleven and there
were three command Unfortunately, the whole listing is on my phone,
which is stuff I put up today. I could actually
even tell you all the names. So there was an
original team of eleven, but prior to that they had
(10:15):
the team of the Mountain Face Rescue, which the James
spoke to previously. They were sent on to the ice
to ready the whole site, so they were they were
initial Johnny on the spots. They had to get the
ropes in. You know, you're dealing with crevasses, extremely dangerous terrain,
(10:37):
so they got in, prepped everything and they were basically
the safety guide who got the police officers that that
team of the eleven that went in to the site.
And I think it's important that people remember the police team,
the dv I and the the police rescue squad out
(10:59):
of Wellington. Today's the memorial of their leaving to the
ice and their job ahead. They're two weeks of all
I can describe the help and I have actually had
the privilege, through members of the New Zealand Police Force,
to actually meet, sit and talk to two of that
initial team, which I have to say was probably one
(11:21):
of the most emotional conversations I ever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Andrew, do you get a sense at that team of
eleven and others that went down, do you get a
sense from your conversations with them that they were offered
ongoing help post that trap?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And I'll be straight up about that, and a number
of them have written about it over the years. As
I said, they were forgotten twenty seven years before they
were formally recognized everything outside of even the accident, even
that in itself to me personally, and I know to
a lot of family members, are no responses for things
(12:00):
I posted today that have been sent to the New
Zealand Force again to the New Zealand Police Force and
the rescue squads. And also I have to say, you
had US Navy personnel for there, and also the staff
and McMurdo and Scott bases. We're hugely involved and have
forgotten about that. No, there was from what I can gather,
(12:23):
there's been no support a lot of those As I said,
I'll use the word constantly heroes that put their lives
at risk, and some of them are stated they went
down knowing that there was potential they could never come
home as well, and that that was their reality, the
dangers that they faced, and they had no support, no counseling, nothing,
(12:46):
and of all of those guys suffered from PTSD. And
as it was put to me, the site would be
the equivalent of say, Passiondale of the height of the
First World War. That's what they faced. And I also
say in response to that, I have read every single
report on it. I've seen all the photo. I know
(13:09):
every single glory detail, the reconstructions of the accident, the injuries,
the devastation on site, who was where, what was left
which I won't talk about, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, no, I think to say that people could probably
use their own imaginations would only go so far, because
you can't prepare yourself in any way. And a lot
of the police that were going there, some of them
had just completed a course on body recovery that week
and they jokingly said, we're never going to have to
use this.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
And there they were, and yeah, I know that they
were actually in the middle of the refresher course when
they got the call, they were doing their refresher course
in Wellington. So I mean, in a way there's a
real irony to that that they were already prepared to
go in that an incident they thought would never happen happened,
which is just an amazing credit to really the preparedness
(14:05):
of the New Zealand Police Force, their rescue squad, to
the staff, all of them. They you know, it's quite
incredible really, and I suppose a stroke of of lacking
mat as well. It just allowed them as a team
to just go, as I said, they were in the
year the next day and gone, Yeah, they are real quick.
(14:29):
I cannot, as I said, they have forgotten and I
think it's important. Yes, And as I said, I speak
as a family member. I can recount You've asked about
the day it happened, which I'll quickly recount, and some
of recounted the family well Andrew just.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Because of running out of time, and I know this
is really rude to me, but we are running out
of time. And look, is there somewhere what's the name
of the Facebook group that people can quickly go to
or can't take.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Cart No, it's a private it's a private group.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It's a private group. I thought that would be the
case and probably just as well too. Andrew, thank you
so much for your time.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Good times, great memories in my day with Roman used dogs.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Hi, there's Simon.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Oh Hi, it's Simon.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Oh sorry, Simon, I'm very say that's okay.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Hi. I'm David Bennett's daughter who was an assistant professor
on the flight. I was the one that spoke this
Radio New Zealand just basically speaking for a lot of
families that have just been devastated about the decision to
have been memorial in christ Church when they did a
(15:44):
survey and the majority of us asked for it to
be in Auckland. And that's because there are eighty and
ninety year old people that you know, I have lost
their husbands or their sons or daughters or other members
of their family and they can't possibly get down to
(16:06):
christ Church and it's really devastating. But yeah, my when
my father was killed, I had just turned eleven. My
brother was turning six the very next day, So today
in nineteen seventy nine, and my mother was twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
My father was thirty eight, and that day I felt.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Like I lost my mother as well as my father.
Our whole life, we lost our childhood, you know, our
lives were turned upside down. And our dad was an
amazing dad. I'm not just saying that because he died,
but he was, you know, really hands on and always
taking us on the benches and very loving. So it
(16:52):
was a huge gap when he died. And then there's
the cover up and what's that in itself as horrendo
us But weirdly and our fide became a flight stand
at very in New Zealand and I flew with aside
a lot of my father's dear friends that were still
(17:12):
flying and introduced myself and that was just an amazing
thing in it south to help with my healing. Yeah,
so I just wanted to share my story. I've I've
had a horrendous time within New Zealand. I didn't get
men stated after COVID there were hundreds of us and
then they've ended up apologizing. But you know, I remember
(17:38):
my dad with a lot of love. But it's it's very,
very sad that all these other people can't have a
memorial in Auckland and that I'd like to have it,
And you know, I've received backlash and been called entitled,
and you know there are other people other than yourself,
But as I say, I'm advocating for many people that
(18:01):
are really disappointed.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, I bet someone that's over fifty or fifty sites
that were relatively appropriate, some more than others turned down
in Ubland. What's your what's your understanding of why they
were inappropriate?
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I honestly do not know. I wasn't really involved in
because a lot of there are other family members that
were very involved and you know that attend the who
is that they had for us I think every month,
but I just couldn't cope with that. I really don't know.
(18:39):
I did get told yesterday. I just wanted to mention
too that we have a lovely crew memorial and we
had had a pre memorial yesterday out near the airport.
And there's something about the Ministry can't actually purchase land.
So that's one thing that I was told by. He
(19:06):
was like the head. I don't I can't remember his
title completely, but he was like head of the Pilot's
Association for I think for in New Zealand. But he
was such a lovely approachable man. But that's what he
said to me, and yeah, I don't know why. I mean,
(19:28):
we had all the awful protesters and the people that
and really that harassed some family members, just awful about
having the memorial at the Rose Gardens. I'm sorry it's
actually called something else, was it not, Sir Maya Robinson
(19:51):
Park or anyway? Yeah, and I think I think, you know,
we actually have been trying to come up with solutions
and we thought maybe we should try and we don't
know because it as a crew memorial, but whether we
could you know, just put everybody's name on a wall
(20:13):
somewhere where people can bun sit. And that's where I said,
we don't need to have this, you know, millions of
dollars spent. I'm just picking for myself when I say this,
But you know, it could just be a beautiful guard
and just somewhere where you can just sit and contemplate,
not somewhere that you have to plan to fly down
to take days off work. You know, Oh, I feel
(20:35):
like grieving or going to see my father's memorial or
my cousin and my grandmother. Oh, sorry, no you can't
because you have to fly.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
And the fact that christ Church in terms of the
specific flight in terms of that it was a refueling
and a recrew or change of crew and then on
to Auckland. So logically this is which is why Auckland
was being considered. There was a bit of talkback, well,
there was a lot of talkback about this topic, and
some people were saying, oh, you couldn't have it at
an airport, that would scare people, which seemed very strange
(21:07):
to me. Did you have any opposition to that?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
No?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Not, no, not at all. I mean I used to
I have terrible humor. I used to joke that statistically
when I was a class stendent, because you know, sometimes
things there'll be noises or something. We've had diversions, and
I'd say, oh, you know, statistically, it's never going to
happen when I'm on board. But you know, I don't
(21:33):
have a fear of flying or airports or anything like that.
You know, and it was a preventable accident. You know,
it was a huge cover up, so yeah, you know
that's that. There are so many as you know, you know,
there were so many books for film in facts and justice,
(21:53):
marn you know what a hero and or the recovery
team too. When I think of heroes I think of them.
They were just remarkable men and so young. And I'd
like to mention inspected Greg Gilpin, who was no longer
with us, who was the most incredible man that took
(22:13):
the time on the thirtieth anniversary to speak to us
and say, I've actually mapped out where people's bodies were,
because which may seem quite macarb to some people, but
for thirty years I did wonder. I wonder what you
know we dad was where he was done because we
were very, very lucky. He was one of the first
(22:37):
ten bodies to be brought back. And Greg took the
time thirty years afterwards, spoke to me on the phone,
told me exactly where my dad was about, and remembers
finding him. And I'm sobbing down the phone and he
was so kind and rang me, you know a week later,
(22:57):
I just want to check that you're okay, just you know, incredible.
He was the one that found the ring binder, actually.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Greg Gilfin, inspected Greg Gilfin, Soon, can you just remind
me of your father's name again. I went to write
it down and then I got distracted.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
David Bennett, so he was an assistant person on the flight.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Okay, David Bennett. Yeah, And so you were eleven, your
brother turned six the following day, your mum was twenty eight,
your father thirty eight. It just seems you were all
very young, weren't you.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Yes, And that's the thing. And it was my mum's
birthdot like, it's my mum's birthday next Friday. So it's
a really awful time of year for us, you know,
and I mean for many people, and you know, I
really really feel for all the families that and I think,
you know, some people have been really scathing and oh
(23:56):
it's forty six years. Just get on with it, you know,
get over it.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
It's so like.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Blah blah blah. But you know, there's no timeline for grief.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, that's right. And there's a two technical term for
people like that some on their idiots. Yeah, it's quite technical.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't imagine anyone saying that. And when I get
texts like that saying exactly what you said, I just
sometimes I read them that. But I often say to
people like that, is that what you would say to
the family members? Have you got that level of stupidity
that you would actually repeat that to people? Because I
think texting allows you to hide and become all keyboard
worrirish and brave.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Well that's what happened to me when I, you know,
and I stupidly begged things that people were writing and
they were so cruel, and you know, and I was thinking,
and I got like, how can you say that? Like
how can you be so nasty? And and you know
(24:58):
it's like, get over, it will be entitled or blah
blah blah. You know, we everyone, all the passengers, all
the family. We've just been through such a horrendous time
with the cover up with you know, because it would
have bankrupted New Zealand at the time. And you know,
there was a man that was called the Shredder that
(25:20):
shredded all the documents in New Zealand because they were
hiding the fact that they changed the wood. And it's
blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
And then you know, I have the most utmost to
respect for a dangers under adourn. A lot of people
would you know, a lot of people don't like her
because they blame her for you know, what's happened in
the country. But for me, the fact that she took
the time to apologize to us and She had tears
(25:54):
in her eyes when she was speaking to us, addressing
it as a government house, and I actually went and
thanked her, and she took my hands in hers and said,
I'm so sorry. It took the slum fro an apology
and yeah, and for all of us that just meant
(26:18):
so much.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, do you know what someone I know that who
knows what you'll be doing in a year's time. But
I really hope that you'll call back again, because I
think it's worth repeating or adding to the stories rather
than those people who would just like it to conveniently
go away. And regardless of where that memorial is, you
(26:39):
know what's most important, and it's keeping those stories alive.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Right, that's right?
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Herring me home smocking sing out song about soft I'm
so spreading up my suns young saying about her hurt.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Only down.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
You young will remember.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
I'm a Noma.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
What else?
Speaker 6 (28:00):
Gott's sweet?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
For more from us Talk st B, listen live on
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You're listening to a podcast from News TALKSB follow this
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi James, Well, Hi ramand thanks for the opportunity to
talk to you. Now. I go back a little bit
and on nineteen seventy seven, I was leading a small
team from a university research program around the Ross Island
and then across into the Dry Valley areas. Wow. And
(00:38):
we were heading up from Scott Base with a two
motor Boggs each once towing a sledge with all our
gear as myself and in my three people, and we're
sitting across the sea ice and we came into the
bay where there's Mount Air of Us and just in
that same bay as where Scott's hut at Cape Evans's,
(01:02):
and a little further on were we're heading was Cape
Royd where Shacklan's huts. So I've been through both of
those huts. But it was an abs it is stunning
day and we heard this sound of a plane. I
looked up there and here was the in New Zealand
DC ten flying right over us or just a bit
to the left of us. And what's called the Dirty configuration,
which was partial flaps down, undercarriage down and really slow,
(01:26):
and we all waved out, so I might well be
on people with cameras, And it was an absolute stunning day.
We could see Mount Erebus straight across the sea ice,
beautiful blue sky standing out in white and water, the
Puma white smoke coming out of the out of the
volcano summit, and I guess the aircraft it's a bit
(01:47):
hard to tell, maybe five hundred one thousand feet above
above a sea ice, very very flat and of course
well well lower than the slopes of Erebus. And we
all waved to and then it just later on put
us undercarriage up and on and then climbed away. But
what was what I'm really coming to as well? The
previous listeners tonight talked about the change in white out,
(02:11):
So within about or half an hour, the weather changed
and we were in total whiteout conditions and we couldn't
see any more than a few meters in front of us,
and didn't matter which way you look at, We're just white.
And that's just what happens so quickly, from an absolutely
stunning day to a complete white out. So I just
(02:32):
make those two comments, and I thought people might be interested.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, very much so, even though and I'm not a pilot,
I wouldn't. I can't think of anything worse In conditions
like that, you're very much relying on the instruments when
it gets to that whiteout condition. But you've got something
telling you, right, you've got something yelling at you, telling
you what altitude you're at. But they had the wrong well,
you know, a different flight path.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
No, yes, so what happens actually on the pilot myself,
but only private pilot, so I mean flying for forty
odd years. No, what actually happens there is they were
descending under visual conditions, which is fine. You can go
down to the minimum save the altitude. I'm not sure
what that is in the DC ten, but they were
clearly flying quite low and probably close to that altitude,
(03:20):
which is fine. That's perfectly okay, and you can see
because you're in visual, but if you're on instruments, and
of course you have to fly of our instruments, and
the problem down there, there's limited navigation age and this
was long before there are days of GPS, and the
problem was if you look at Mount Erebus from where
we were standing, you have the peak and then on
the north side you have that slow slope, and when
(03:43):
they were descending, they were flying the designated flight descent plan,
which is kind of like a race course type process.
But they were descending down they thought they were over
the sea ice, where in fact you could descend down
further hoping to actually break visual to give the people
(04:04):
the passengers of you because you don't know how low
the white out is because there's nobody down on the
ground to ten. But clearly they weren't. They were They
were several miles further east and they just descended straight
down on the slopes of parabus. Was as simple as that.
So it was just there was just a tragic there
were just the wrong coordinates were put in the nav
system and the fact that the fact that that was
(04:27):
that the pilot was just doing he was just descending
down as you normally do, thinking he was over the
sea ice, and that was it. So that's what I
wanted to say. But the other thing too, which has
also affected this, his student who did his masters with
me on on a study in Antarctica, and he was
(04:48):
a keen mountain knee and he was one of the
guys who was actually asked to go as a mountaineer
up to with the safety people on the with the
rescue squads. So he was one of the first on
the scene as well. So I had a few chats
with him. It's pretty pretty horrendous.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well that he wouldn't have been trained with the recovery
of bodies, would he say that would have been.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, yeah, no, no. He was there a very experienced
mountaineer looking for crevasses and marking out the crevasses and
making it safe because you know, the slopes there would
be littered with cravases and so you certainly didn't want
to lose anybody down to cravass. Yeah, so that was
a safety thing. So yeah, so that and then interestingly
(05:27):
that that was the year before, it was about December
in seventy seven, and then when we were home it
obviously I was back home and in December seventy eight
when the November seventy eighth, sorry, when the accident actually happened,
and we were sitting in the watching the news and
they said to my wife, I said, I don't like
(05:47):
the sound of this at all. When the news came over,
and then the thing dread on and on, and I
just said, look, I don't think there anybody will come
out of this, and unfortunately, you know we were right.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yes, and Clelly, you were old enough at the time
to recall the orchestrated listening of lies. Did that make
you angry that ongoing process?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah? It was Actually I didn't. Yeah, I mean it's
all history now. But having been down there and you know,
being a pilot myself and just know how these things
actually happen, and actually since experienced the aircraft flying over
the top of us on absolute stunning day, you can
just see how it all came together, and effectively it
(06:29):
came together because of the wrong coordinates given to the
into the NEV system. Yeah, it's just well, well that
that's my thoughts anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
No, that's fine. And Jane's what were you what were
you studying?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm actually a chemist, du chemist. When we were looking
at the geochemistry, it's a very interesting geochemistry, and this
was the days of early Antarctic expiration, the science side
of things, and the the dry Valleys area where the
solar heated saline lakes, and then around Cape Royds where
this very interesting mineral deposits. We were looking at those
(07:06):
and just mapping them and trying to understand what was
going on.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Well, it's a very special, a very special place for
you to be and what a great, great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yes, I've had Yeah, I've had two summer seasons there
so and I look back, I've got lots and lots
of slides, and I looked back with break fond. So
that's why I really wanted to ring up and just say, hey,
you know this is my experience. Yeah, and I've seen
the aircraft flying over and I've experienced white House.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, I'm really glad that you did call James. It's
a I could I could almost see what you were
talking about, very very well. Told your story, good times,
great memories in my day with Romans us talk z
b HY Andrew.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yes, good evening, Andrew, Yes, thank you for having us on.
And first of all, like to say thank you for
just the bringing this to the service and giving people
a voice. I think that's brought into the station and
much appreciated.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Oh, you're very welcome.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
And also just very quickly to say thank you to
James the pilot. A number of the once he made
especially for people that have no recollection or weren't alive
there that are your listeners. He made some very poignant
marks that were right on the money. And I speak
as a family member of one of the crew and
(08:24):
a friend to a number of the crew, and also
lost two friends as passengers, so it's a big one
for our family. And I have to say if I
get a bit jaded talking to you, it's been a
long three days with the memorials and the things that
were announced last week. But yeah, the friend Rangon said
(08:46):
you should bring zeed V and talk to thank you
for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Look, I'm hesitant to ask you too many questions about
your connections to those people, but feel free to talk
about them if you want to.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Andrew, No, you can fire away, mate, I have to say,
and I'm straight up about it, man, I've shed a
lot of tears in the last couple of days. I've
been in contact with a number of the other families,
including Captain Collin's family, have posted a number of things
within the Erabas family site and also sent today a
(09:25):
big message of thanks through to the New Zealand Police Force,
pretty much naming all their main staff that were down there.
They are also so forgotten. They were probably more forgotten
than the passengers and crew in a lot of ways,
and I think it's important that people remember them. They
(09:47):
were heroes as well.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
How many how many police were sent down initially and
then over the next.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Few days there was a team of eleven and there
were three command Unfortunately, the whole listing is on my phone,
which is stuff I put up today. I could actually
even tell you all the names. So there was an
original team of eleven, but prior to that they had
(10:15):
the team of the Mountain Face Rescue, which the James
spoke to previously. They were sent on to the ice
to ready the whole site, so they were they were
initial Johnny on the spots. They had to get the
ropes in. You know, you're dealing with crevasses, extremely dangerous terrain,
(10:37):
so they got in, prepped everything and they were basically
the safety guide who got the police officers that that
team of the eleven that went in to the site.
And I think it's important that people remember the police team,
the dv I and the the police rescue squad out
(10:59):
of Wellington. Today's the memorial of their leaving to the
ice and their job ahead. They're two weeks of all
I can describe the help and I have actually had
the privilege, through members of the New Zealand Police Force,
to actually meet, sit and talk to two of that
initial team, which I have to say was probably one
(11:21):
of the most emotional conversations I ever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Andrew, do you get a sense at that team of
eleven and others that went down, do you get a
sense from your conversations with them that they were offered
ongoing help post that trap?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And I'll be straight up about that, and a number
of them have written about it over the years. As
I said, they were forgotten twenty seven years before they
were formally recognized everything outside of even the accident, even
that in itself to me personally, and I know to
a lot of family members, are no responses for things
(12:00):
I posted today that have been sent to the New
Zealand Force again to the New Zealand Police Force and
the rescue squads. And also I have to say, you
had US Navy personnel for there, and also the staff
and McMurdo and Scott bases. We're hugely involved and have
forgotten about that. No, there was from what I can gather,
(12:23):
there's been no support a lot of those As I said,
I'll use the word constantly heroes that put their lives
at risk, and some of them are stated they went
down knowing that there was potential they could never come
home as well, and that that was their reality, the
dangers that they faced, and they had no support, no counseling, nothing,
(12:46):
and of all of those guys suffered from PTSD. And
as it was put to me, the site would be
the equivalent of say, Passiondale of the height of the
First World War. That's what they faced. And I also
say in response to that, I have read every single
report on it. I've seen all the photo. I know
(13:09):
every single glory detail, the reconstructions of the accident, the injuries,
the devastation on site, who was where, what was left
which I won't talk about, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, no, I think to say that people could probably
use their own imaginations would only go so far, because
you can't prepare yourself in any way. And a lot
of the police that were going there, some of them
had just completed a course on body recovery that week
and they jokingly said, we're never going to have to
use this.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
And there they were, and yeah, I know that they
were actually in the middle of the refresher course when
they got the call, they were doing their refresher course
in Wellington. So I mean, in a way there's a
real irony to that that they were already prepared to
go in that an incident they thought would never happen happened,
which is just an amazing credit to really the preparedness
(14:05):
of the New Zealand Police Force, their rescue squad, to
the staff, all of them. They you know, it's quite
incredible really, and I suppose a stroke of of lacking
mat as well. It just allowed them as a team
to just go, as I said, they were in the
year the next day and gone, Yeah, they are real quick.
(14:29):
I cannot, as I said, they have forgotten and I
think it's important. Yes, And as I said, I speak
as a family member. I can recount You've asked about
the day it happened, which I'll quickly recount, and some
of recounted the family well Andrew just.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Because of running out of time, and I know this
is really rude to me, but we are running out
of time. And look, is there somewhere what's the name
of the Facebook group that people can quickly go to
or can't take.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Cart No, it's a private it's a private group.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It's a private group. I thought that would be the
case and probably just as well too. Andrew, thank you
so much for your time.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Good times, great memories in my day with Roman used dogs.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Hi, there's Simon.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Oh Hi, it's Simon.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Oh sorry, Simon, I'm very say that's okay.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Hi. I'm David Bennett's daughter who was an assistant professor
on the flight. I was the one that spoke this
Radio New Zealand just basically speaking for a lot of
families that have just been devastated about the decision to
have been memorial in christ Church when they did a
(15:44):
survey and the majority of us asked for it to
be in Auckland. And that's because there are eighty and
ninety year old people that you know, I have lost
their husbands or their sons or daughters or other members
of their family and they can't possibly get down to
(16:06):
christ Church and it's really devastating. But yeah, my when
my father was killed, I had just turned eleven. My
brother was turning six the very next day, So today
in nineteen seventy nine, and my mother was twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
My father was thirty eight, and that day I felt.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Like I lost my mother as well as my father.
Our whole life, we lost our childhood, you know, our
lives were turned upside down. And our dad was an
amazing dad. I'm not just saying that because he died,
but he was, you know, really hands on and always
taking us on the benches and very loving. So it
(16:52):
was a huge gap when he died. And then there's
the cover up and what's that in itself as horrendo
us But weirdly and our fide became a flight stand
at very in New Zealand and I flew with aside
a lot of my father's dear friends that were still
(17:12):
flying and introduced myself and that was just an amazing
thing in it south to help with my healing. Yeah,
so I just wanted to share my story. I've I've
had a horrendous time within New Zealand. I didn't get
men stated after COVID there were hundreds of us and
then they've ended up apologizing. But you know, I remember
(17:38):
my dad with a lot of love. But it's it's very,
very sad that all these other people can't have a
memorial in Auckland and that I'd like to have it,
And you know, I've received backlash and been called entitled,
and you know there are other people other than yourself,
But as I say, I'm advocating for many people that
(18:01):
are really disappointed.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, I bet someone that's over fifty or fifty sites
that were relatively appropriate, some more than others turned down
in Ubland. What's your what's your understanding of why they
were inappropriate?
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I honestly do not know. I wasn't really involved in
because a lot of there are other family members that
were very involved and you know that attend the who
is that they had for us I think every month,
but I just couldn't cope with that. I really don't know.
(18:39):
I did get told yesterday. I just wanted to mention
too that we have a lovely crew memorial and we
had had a pre memorial yesterday out near the airport.
And there's something about the Ministry can't actually purchase land.
So that's one thing that I was told by. He
(19:06):
was like the head. I don't I can't remember his
title completely, but he was like head of the Pilot's
Association for I think for in New Zealand. But he
was such a lovely approachable man. But that's what he
said to me, and yeah, I don't know why. I mean,
(19:28):
we had all the awful protesters and the people that
and really that harassed some family members, just awful about
having the memorial at the Rose Gardens. I'm sorry it's
actually called something else, was it not, Sir Maya Robinson
(19:51):
Park or anyway? Yeah, and I think I think, you know,
we actually have been trying to come up with solutions
and we thought maybe we should try and we don't
know because it as a crew memorial, but whether we
could you know, just put everybody's name on a wall
(20:13):
somewhere where people can bun sit. And that's where I said,
we don't need to have this, you know, millions of
dollars spent. I'm just picking for myself when I say this,
But you know, it could just be a beautiful guard
and just somewhere where you can just sit and contemplate,
not somewhere that you have to plan to fly down
to take days off work. You know, Oh, I feel
(20:35):
like grieving or going to see my father's memorial or
my cousin and my grandmother. Oh, sorry, no you can't
because you have to fly.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
And the fact that christ Church in terms of the
specific flight in terms of that it was a refueling
and a recrew or change of crew and then on
to Auckland. So logically this is which is why Auckland
was being considered. There was a bit of talkback, well,
there was a lot of talkback about this topic, and
some people were saying, oh, you couldn't have it at
an airport, that would scare people, which seemed very strange
(21:07):
to me. Did you have any opposition to that?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
No?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Not, no, not at all. I mean I used to
I have terrible humor. I used to joke that statistically
when I was a class stendent, because you know, sometimes
things there'll be noises or something. We've had diversions, and
I'd say, oh, you know, statistically, it's never going to
happen when I'm on board. But you know, I don't
(21:33):
have a fear of flying or airports or anything like that.
You know, and it was a preventable accident. You know,
it was a huge cover up, so yeah, you know
that's that. There are so many as you know, you know,
there were so many books for film in facts and justice,
(21:53):
marn you know what a hero and or the recovery
team too. When I think of heroes I think of them.
They were just remarkable men and so young. And I'd
like to mention inspected Greg Gilpin, who was no longer
with us, who was the most incredible man that took
(22:13):
the time on the thirtieth anniversary to speak to us
and say, I've actually mapped out where people's bodies were,
because which may seem quite macarb to some people, but
for thirty years I did wonder. I wonder what you
know we dad was where he was done because we
were very, very lucky. He was one of the first
(22:37):
ten bodies to be brought back. And Greg took the
time thirty years afterwards, spoke to me on the phone,
told me exactly where my dad was about, and remembers
finding him. And I'm sobbing down the phone and he
was so kind and rang me, you know a week later,
(22:57):
I just want to check that you're okay, just you know, incredible.
He was the one that found the ring binder, actually.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Greg Gilfin, inspected Greg Gilfin, Soon, can you just remind
me of your father's name again. I went to write
it down and then I got distracted.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
David Bennett, so he was an assistant person on the flight.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Okay, David Bennett. Yeah, And so you were eleven, your
brother turned six the following day, your mum was twenty eight,
your father thirty eight. It just seems you were all
very young, weren't you.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Yes, And that's the thing. And it was my mum's
birthdot like, it's my mum's birthday next Friday. So it's
a really awful time of year for us, you know,
and I mean for many people, and you know, I
really really feel for all the families that and I think,
you know, some people have been really scathing and oh
(23:56):
it's forty six years. Just get on with it, you know,
get over it.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
It's so like.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Blah blah blah. But you know, there's no timeline for grief.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, that's right. And there's a two technical term for
people like that some on their idiots. Yeah, it's quite technical.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't imagine anyone saying that. And when I get
texts like that saying exactly what you said, I just
sometimes I read them that. But I often say to
people like that, is that what you would say to
the family members? Have you got that level of stupidity
that you would actually repeat that to people? Because I
think texting allows you to hide and become all keyboard
worrirish and brave.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Well that's what happened to me when I, you know,
and I stupidly begged things that people were writing and
they were so cruel, and you know, and I was thinking,
and I got like, how can you say that? Like
how can you be so nasty? And and you know
(24:58):
it's like, get over, it will be entitled or blah
blah blah. You know, we everyone, all the passengers, all
the family. We've just been through such a horrendous time
with the cover up with you know, because it would
have bankrupted New Zealand at the time. And you know,
there was a man that was called the Shredder that
(25:20):
shredded all the documents in New Zealand because they were
hiding the fact that they changed the wood. And it's
blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
And then you know, I have the most utmost to
respect for a dangers under adourn. A lot of people
would you know, a lot of people don't like her
because they blame her for you know, what's happened in
the country. But for me, the fact that she took
the time to apologize to us and She had tears
(25:54):
in her eyes when she was speaking to us, addressing
it as a government house, and I actually went and
thanked her, and she took my hands in hers and said,
I'm so sorry. It took the slum fro an apology
and yeah, and for all of us that just meant
(26:18):
so much.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, do you know what someone I know that who
knows what you'll be doing in a year's time. But
I really hope that you'll call back again, because I
think it's worth repeating or adding to the stories rather
than those people who would just like it to conveniently
go away. And regardless of where that memorial is, you
(26:39):
know what's most important, and it's keeping those stories alive.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Right, that's right?
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Herring me home smocking sing out song about soft I'm
so spreading up my suns young saying about her hurt.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Only down.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
You young will remember.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
I'm a Noma.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
What else?
Speaker 6 (28:00):
Gott's sweet?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
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