Ethan Griffiths: What Andrew Coster alleged in his first interview after Jevon McSkimming revelations

Andrew Coster has given his first interview on TVNZ's Q&A with Jack Tame since resigning from the public service. 

The former Police Commission resigned as head of the Social Investment Agency this week.

He claimed in the pre-recorded interview two senior politicians knew more than they have publicly admitted about the handling of complaints against disgraced deputy commissioner Jevon McSkimming

Newstalk ZB's Political Reporter unpacked the interview with Francesca Rudkin and what the former top cop claimed, as well as Mariameno Kapa-Kingi being reinstated as a Te Pati Maori member.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks 'B.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
As I mentioned earlier in the show, former top cop
Andrew Costa is talking to Jack Tame. Jack has asked
him if there were any red flags in regards to
miss skimming, and this is what he had to say.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I was assured that there was no work connection police.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Right.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yes, place is a very big organization.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Sure, but the mere fact, the mere fact that he's
had an affair shows that he is capable of deceit.
Then you find out that she is an employee of police.
She might not have been a direct report, but at
the very least that for most people would be a
point of huge concern.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, and look I did. I did quism on it,
but I didn't look into it in the way that
I should have. And had I looked into it's what
I could have discovered potentially was that he had had
a role in helping to secure that employment.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
News Talks dB political reporter Ethan Griffiths has been watching
the and he joins me, Now.

Speaker 5 (01:07):
Good morning, good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Right, what are some of your main takeaways from this interview?

Speaker 5 (01:13):
Well, this is pretty extraordinary. Bear with me here. The
nub of this is that Mitchell says he was never
briefed by Andrew Costa on missus allegations against Jevn mcskimming
before November last year. Now, Mitchell has always maintained that
since the IPCA report came out, but Costa, in this

(01:33):
Q and A interview with Jack Tame, says he did
tell Mitchell earlier than that. He just couldn't say when.
Have A listened to this clip?

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Mark Mitchell told us on Q and A that he
only heard about the Devin mcskimming misconduct delegations on November
sixth of last year.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
No, that is not correct. There is no way that
I was only just telling him about all of this
in my last couple of weeks in the job. That
was my last week in the job. We had discussed
this informally at some stage through the course of twenty
twenty four. I can't tell you exactly when that occurred. Again,
it was a you know, it was an informal conversation.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
So that's the headline out of this. Coster has essentially
accused Police Minister Mark Mitchell of not telling the truth
and it goes further than that he didn't aim his
sights justin Mitchell, but also Chris Hipkins, who was Police
Minister in twenty twenty two. Now Costa says he told
Hipkins about Mick Skimmings's affair, how it had soured and
that the woman at the center of it was making

(02:36):
allegations via emails. Chris Hipkins, when the report came out,
said he was never told of any concern. Of course,
mc skimming became a statutory Deputy commissioner under Hipkins's reign
that went through cabinet when Hipkins was Police Minister. Hipkins
has given a statement to Q and A again saying
that he has no recollection of that conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, so have we had a response from Police Minister
Mark Mitchell. Is these accusations that cost is making.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
We have this is come to hand from his office quote.
It is disappointing that, following his resignation that came with
an apology to police less than a week ago, mister
Costa is trying to deflect and re litigate matters. I
firmly stand by all my statements and facts presented in
relation to the IPCA report. Mister Costa's recollections are wrong.

(03:26):
Now Mitchell also says he wants to make clear Costa
never briefed him before November twenty twenty four. He also
says that the IPCA found Costa's own recollections to be
inconsistent and unreliable, and he goes even further than that quote.
If mister Costa's focus is on relitigating matters, there are
legal recourses available to him, and if he truly believes

(03:48):
what he's saying, nothing prevents him from pursuing those. That
is the Minister of Police saying to his former commissioner,
put up or shut up?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Do you think he can put up ethan Well?

Speaker 5 (04:02):
Andrew Costa has said in this interview with Jack Tame
that he has no evidence of these conversations, both with
Chris Hipkins and with Mark Mitchell. Now it is interesting.
Costa does make the point that there's no way, as
you heard in that clip, he would tell Mark Mitchell
about that in the final week of his job, But
he also says that the conversations were informal. He says

(04:23):
that the one that he had with Chris Hipkins about
this was in the back of a car as they
were driving through kak Quarta, So I mean, for serious
allegations like this, you wouldn't necessarily think that's the place
that you'd have that conversation. Of Course, as I said before,
and as Mark Mitchell's statement, the IPCA did have questions
and concerns about the validity of Andrew Costa's statements in

(04:45):
reply to these allegations and the findings that have been found.
So it is hard to say the reality here is though,
as he says, he has no evidence and an absence
of that, I think it's going to be a very
difficult thing to prove.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, there's also the talk about who was controlling the
emails coming into Mitchell's office from the police. Was there
anything else on that.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
Yeah, these are the thirty six emails that Missi sent
to Mitchell's off attempting to raise the allegations with him. Now,
Mitchell says that Costa had directed seconde's from police who
are in Mark Mitchell's ministerial office, to immediately forward the
emails back to police so Mitchell couldn't see them. Now,
Costa says in the interview today that that is untrue.

(05:24):
There's some discussion there of a retrospective file note that
details from notes at the time what happened there that
Costa says he's seen. I obviously haven't seen that file
note this morning, so it is hard to say. But
Costa of course denying that he made that direction to
Secondi's in Mark Mitchell's office.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Another interesting aspect of the interview too is Andrew Costa
saying that he was very unimpressed with the way the
government minister's handled the release of the report, like basically
laying it out there that there was police corruption and
saying so much when that actually wasn't stated. Obviously serious
failings by police, but that police corruption wasn't something that
was being you know, kind of named within the report.

(06:02):
Do you think he's got a point there?

Speaker 5 (06:05):
He absolutely does have point. I mean, these are findings
that are very formal and official in nature. You can't
have a minister going out and saying, you know, if
it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck,
it's a duck. As a public service minister Judith Collins said,
and Mark Mitchell himself even used the C word corruption
and later walked that back. These are serious failings. I

(06:26):
don't think anyone would lose sight of that. But of
course the IPCA did not say corruption. You can't really
say that it is.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Ethan Griffith, thank you so much for being across this
for us this morning, very much appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News TALKSZ'B from nine am Sunday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio