The Skill Gap Problem

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
For thirty five years, Cindy Stumpohas been a female home builder with a
passion for design, a mastery ofdetail, and a commitment to her crack.
With daughter Samantha Stumpo by her side, I don't need my whole family
on a date with me. That'sa good note. It's goddemn weird.
See. Stumpo Development is the onlysecond generation female construction company in the country.
You're crazy, You're a wacko,You're insane. I mean, it

(00:23):
just doesn't end together. Cindy andSamantha welcome guests to explore the world of
construction, real estate, development,design and more. Unpredictable. Every time
I think I know what you want, you'd switch it out. But that's
what makes your houses all your day. Discuss anything that happens between the roof
and the foundation. Nothing is offlimits. You truly do care about everybody.
She can yell at chi can scream, but when you get her alone,

(00:44):
she's the best person on the planet. Cindy Stumpo is tough as nails
and welcome to Cindy Stumpo Tell theNails on WBZ News Radio ten thirty and
I'm here tonight with Sammy and whoelse here? What's turname? Dan?
Demadia? Dan? What do youdo so work in real estate? Really

(01:04):
give us a whole bio on you. Okay, I'll give you the whole
bios. So thank you both forhaving me toy today. Thank you for
coming my pleasure. So I grewup in Dennis. We won't hold that
against you. Father was a lawenforce and retired as police chief, and
Dennis mom was in the restaurants.Grew up real blue collar. It's actually
funny. I remember when I wastwelve years old. I said to my
dad, I wanted a PlayStation.He said sure. Two days later,

(01:26):
I found myself on a plumbing truckdoing commercial and residential plumbing all the way
up to Boston Beacon Hill Chester.Oh. So I didn't buy you the
PlayStation. No, I went andbought myself after I got some money.
Okay, I like that. Ilike you, Dad, go ahead.
So long story short, eighth gradecomes around. All my buddies were going
to the regional high school. Imade the really unpopular decision at the time,
which was actually the best decision Iever made my life, was to

(01:47):
go to Cape Cod Tech, whichwas the vocational High School to continue learning
plumbing. And it was really coolbecause we got to go there on we
had two weeks of shop, twoweeks of academics, which was amazing.
But the two weeks once you getyour drivers. But how old do you
My mask is thirty years old.Okay, so that there's a different generational
gap then now, so go ahead. That's great, absolutely, and that's
definitely what we're seeing. But itwas really cool going to the vocational high

(02:10):
school. And it was funny whenyou know, when I decided to go
there, everyone's like, oh,you'll never go to college, you'll never
be successful, it's very un sexy, so on and so forth. I
heard that at fifty nine and whenI was in school too. So for
my generation, if you went tothe vocational pile of the school, you
were a grease monkey, they calledyou because you're a mechanic, or you're
the dumb kid going to learn workshopor whatever. Right, Like I turned

(02:30):
out really dumb, didn't I Yeah, really dumb? Okay, dumb move.
But I didn't go to the vocationalend of my school, right.
I wish I did now, Butyou know, it was a label.
It's that that that stupid label thatstill exists on electricians, plumbers, h
vacy guys like, we're just thedumb dumbs that option in front of you,
that all note for you to makethat choice. Well, when I

(02:50):
started plumbing at twelve, I realizedthat I was going to fix water heaters.
I was going to do service callsand you know, drinking water and
some of these things that we havein our home are really important. And
going to the regional high school Iknow that, but that was an option
to learn some of these trades.And when I learned about Cape Cod Tech
was the two weeks that you're inshop as soon as you get your driver's
license you get to instead of goingto school, you go out and you
work and you get so you're buildingyour aprenticeship. So they're letting you do

(03:13):
an internship at this point in highschool paid internship, paid internship, which
also goes to our apprenticeship hours.So then you get out of trade school,
you have well over your two thousandhours and you can begin taking your
classes to get your journeyman's license,really, which is fantastic. I didn't
know that, so I wonder ifit's like that with mid and Man two.
I don't think so. I'd haveto check on that. Yeah.
So it was a great experience.And you know, everyone says you can't

(03:36):
go to college. You know,I ended up playing in three national championships
when I was in high school allover the country. We won state championships
at Cape con Tech. I wasthe captain of all my sports teams and
I just was really had it.Was on some great teams, which was
fantastic. Eighteen years old, Ifound myself playing in the Cuban National Baseball
League Series, which was an unbelievableexperience. I ended up did going to
college at Westfield State. Was thecaptain of my baseball team there. Oh,

(04:00):
so you did go to college.You did go to college. Oh
okay, And everyone said that there'sno way to go to college. It's
kind of a sim You glad youdidn't fall to that peer pressure of your
stupid friends. And now they're allworking for the plumbers and the electricians and
the HVACY love to hear it.Yeah. So after that, went to
college. Found out real quick aftergoing to spring training with the Phillies that

(04:23):
I was not going to be makingit to the big league. So I
became an EMT and worked in emergencymedicine, got my master's degree at Westfield.
So it's then't terrible that we reallyforgot, you know. Like my
fiance Ray, he went to SaintLeo's for baseball and realized once he got
down to Florida, I was goodfor Reveal, but I'm not good for
Florida. Right then it's a rudeawakening like okay, like I'm a good
baseball player, but not that good. But I'll take the you know,

(04:43):
the college and get my degree andyou know, and so on. So
okay, you realize that day likeyou weren't going to be a professional player.
I realized very quickly that was thecase, and then I needed to
do something out So I became anEMT. By the way, that's holding
youself accountable. That's a good thingat your at that age, by the
way. Absolutely, And then camean EMT, worked a nine one and
one in Springfield, got my master'sdegree, and one of my buddies that

(05:04):
I played in the Cape with livedon Nantucket. So I went and did
emergency medicine out on Nantucket for abouttwo and a half years. Unbelievable experience,
you know, any shift could havebeen working a code, helping to
deliver a baby, it could havebeen getting I lived on tom Nevers,
which is at the end of theisland, so there were times when I
get a call from the State Policeand say you need to be at the
hospital in five minutes to hop ona chopper to bring a trauma patient to

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MGH. They would close down MilestoneRoad. I'd be going one hundred and
twenty down Milestone Road hopping on achopper. And we would only fly if
Boston MedFlight and Main MedFlight weren't flying, So we would fly during a tropical
storm if it was really dangerous out. So you could imagine when you're working
on patients, you know, withthe coast Guard and working in those conditions
is very difficult. Yes, byit was very long. I just want
you know, you've done a lot, and and you have thirty years.

(05:48):
And for the first like eighteen,you were a kid, so you've hall
only been in the real worl forlike maybe ten because then you went to
college till twenty one. Yeah,exactly, you've had nine years in the
real world. Yeah, it soundslike he's been the real world since twelfth
though. Yeah, I again,different upbringing, different philosophy, but I
got out of that. The fathersaid, you want to what was the

(06:12):
PlayStation? PlayStation? Go to workand get a job, and you will
get you a PlayStation. Best lessonyou could have learned. And I thank
him to this day. And Ithink my pack call them every day,
both my mom and my dad,and I thank them every day for them
helping me make these decisions. Andit's so funny. A lot of my
buddies that I look back that wentto the regional school I didn't even go
to college, look back and say, man, I really wish I went
to Cape Contec, which is soeven at thirty years old, that stigma

(06:33):
was still there for you. Yes, do you think now in twenty twenty
four that stigma's finally dying? Now? Okay, hold on, I have
my opinion too. I'm going togo with her on this one. But
you answered because you're in that field, You're you're I really don't. I
would have to agree with both ofyou. It's a very unsexy thing for
people to talk about. Oh soit still is unsexy from an icee.

(06:56):
Yeah, well, let me giveyou my opinion. I think it's sexy.
You're pretty sexy over there, missbrunette over there. Now my blondie
is brunette over there. And I'venever found construction to be not sexy.
By the way, okay, andby the way, I'm the type of
person that if you told me goleft, I went right anyway. So
I didn't listen to either right.So I didn't care what you had to
say, and I didn't here myparents are very proud to say my daughter

(07:18):
was a general contractor, and theygot to a point where, oh,
you mean your son in law.No, that's my daughter's company, not
my son law's company. It's thirtysix years later and people still say to
my parents, your sun laws killingit out there like you that dumb does
it say? J period snumbo,We'll see period snumpo. I don't think
we try to make a difference.I was on HGTV and we all got

(07:40):
together and we tried to make arun on trying to tell people being like
Christians, plumbers, HVAC guys andwomen are is a sexy trade. You'll
make a lot of money stigma,but a lot of them schools are weightlessed.
Now that is the time I know, but because they're weightlessed Sammy.
First of all, we had agood opportunity to help build a minute Man
built on off our radio show,for sure, and we brought them to

(08:03):
the Ellen Degenerate Show, not Ellencarry Connick, so Harry Connick. It's
just just said Harry Connick. Andthen we end up on the Harry Connick
Show with them and that was abig deal. So we help man build
there and then they were fully loaded. But again it's still there because I've

(08:24):
talked to enough parents in the lastten years where they say to me,
well, Cindy, I want myson to be a doctor, my daughter
be a lawyer. And I alwayssaid, that's great, that's wonderful.
Is your kid a an AB studentor a CD student CD? So why
do you want to put them throughfour more years of stress? Is your
kid at doudler you know what Imean, like doodles around? It's good

(08:45):
at their hands. Yes, theregoes to show you. But it's again
I blame parents because parents always wantto vicariously live with their children. You've
already had your time. Your timeis up. Whatever you decide to do,
you're doing. Let your kids dosomething constructive. Let them feel good
what they do. But the bigone is, and I will debate this,
the guys that work at C StumbleDevelopment, whether subcontractors or not,

(09:07):
make more money than the average doctor, average lawyer, average accountant with no
student debt period and a story.Hold my thought, we're going to break.
I'm Sitty Stumbling and listening Toughest Nailson w BZ News Radio Tempts sponsored
by Floor and Decor, National Lumberand Village Back and welcome back to Toughest

(09:39):
Nails on WBZ News Radio ten thirdand I'm City Stumpo and I'm here with
Sammy and Dan Mario. Okay,damn pick it up for what I just
said. What I just said wasthat I feel parents stop their children because
they want them to be an accountant, doctor, lawyer. And I said
to you, my guys make morethan the average doctor, average lawyer,

(10:01):
average accountant. I domean the brainsurgeon that's going into your brain and removing
a tumor. And I'm not talkingabout the cardiologists that's actually in their plane
with your heart, talking about theinterness whatever, the average real estate lawyer,
the ambulance chaser. I'm not talkingabout the big criminal attorney. I'm
not talking about the accountant that youknow works as partners at Price water House,

(10:26):
the average accountant. Okay, canyou debate me on that? Yeah,
no, I couldn't agree more.And those brain surgeons, as you
very well know, they're not gettingout and starting to make that money until
they're probably in their forty their fortiesexactly. Oh you know where where folks
in the trades have already made millionsof dollars by that point, you know,
when they get out of school,which good point. So no,
I couldn't couldn't agree more with that, And I couldn't be prouder to say,

(10:48):
I look at look back from guysthat went to Cape Contech, didn't
go to college, and now they'remaking you know, a quarter million more
than that a year owning their companieson the Cape and the Islands and expanding
to the South Shore and into Boston. And again you know a lot of
the that went to the regional schoolnow working for these folks in the back
office that are the admint work becausethey just never had the opportunity, they
never took the initiative to go learna trade. And as we all know,

(11:09):
the trades and the backbone and thebedrock of our community here in Massachusetts
and across the country. Well hereit is. Kids are not coming into
the trades, okay. They wantto be YouTube famous, TikTok famous,
whatever they want to be, okay, And again one percent will turn out
to be and make a lot ofmoney. Who's the guy the Beast boys
would have Beastie Man whatever his nameis. Huh, I don't know the

(11:31):
Beast guy, mister beast whatever heis. He's making millions and millions of
moons alls. I don't ever youtalking them out. You don't even follow
no, oh you need to.But that's the one percent that will make
it on you know, TikTok YouTube. The real world is getting out there
and making a living and getting ourkids out there to get out there and

(11:52):
make a living and stand on theirown two feet. But again, I
would have to say, you gotto love your job. If you don't
love your job, then it's ajob. I've never looked at my work
as it's a job I have fundoing, or I would have retired by
now. I'm fifty nine, right, thirty six years. I think that's
a long enough time in construction anddevelopment. I think, I like have

(12:13):
ran my course, but that's whatgets me up every morning. What can
people do? What can you doto make a difference in these parents' brains?
I know your generation calls in themindset. I don't. I don't
even like that word. What's theother word? I don't like sammy manifest.
Yeah, I want to manifest thatI'm six two and I'm twenty three
years old again and I'm a supermodel. I don't believe in any of that.

(12:35):
I believe in knowledge in action.You learn the knowledge you take the
action. The more action, themore knowledge you learn. It goes to
Ferris Wheel, knowledge and action.Got there, learn a little bit,
take action. Action brings you knowledge. More knowledge brings you more action.
Before you know it, your daughter, your son that's a plumber, owns
a plumbing house that's employing fifty atone hundred people out there being plumbers right

(13:00):
the hardest trade right now to findthe good plumbers right now? For me,
some people say electricians say right now, it's plumbers because they extended the
school time. So for me,plumbers are seemed to be the harder trade
to find right now, but inless than five years. You're gonna call
a plumber and you're gonna say mywater heat I think blue, and they're
gonna say, okay, give mea credit card. Then we'll come out.

(13:24):
Then we'll diagnose the problem. Andthis is what's gonna cost you.
I'll take that all day long.Absolutely, I think you're crazy, like
not to get into the trades.Absolutely, No, it's and I couldn't
agree more into the sentiment you justmentioned. You learn something, you do
something, then you teach something.That's how you really master action, knowledge,
action and knowledge. What's the sense, Dan? I have this question.
There are people your age, especiallyyour age, your generation Sammy's thirty

(13:46):
six years. You all read read, read, read, read, Okay,
you get all the knowledge, andthen you read another book on how
to be successful. Then you listall these idiots on these social devices that
go you can do it. Butyou've never done nothing with your life.
So stop talking to talk and sayyou've walked the walk. And then you're
telling people this this, like dothis, do that. So I have

(14:11):
all these people that read books howto be successful. Dan, I've never
read a book on how to besuccessful. I've never read one book on
how to be successful. I don'twant to read a book on how to
be successful. I don't need towrite read a book. It's common sense.
It's going out doing the right thing, building your business, being a

(14:31):
good human being, and everything elsewill follow. Do what you say,
say what you're going to do.I need to read somebody else's life to
know how to be successful. Butthe point is, I know people have
read ten twelve books and have takenno action on it. So what do
you do? You get all thisknowledge, but then you do nothing with
the knowledge. So that's why Isay knowledge and action go together. As

(14:52):
one read all the books, Ithink that they're trying to find a reason
to be inspired, but they haveto be inspired by themselves to actually do
it. Agreed that percent Again,like I'm going to say, you can
read, read, read, butif you don't take the action, then
what's the sense of the knowledge?I hate reading. I hate reading too,
Okay, all three of us hatein school. Who are we getting?
Okay? I always got slow readingcomprehension It still exists at thirty six.

(15:16):
Okay, I think we all gotsome comprehension problem. But when we
found all three of us what we'dlove to do. Yep, who's better
than us at what we do?Nobody. It's just finding what your passion
is. And once you find thatpassion is no stopping whether you're a good
student or a bad student. I'llput I always say at fifty nine,
I will put ninety nine percent ofguys in construction in my back pocket,

(15:41):
and very proud to say that.Could I say that at twenty three and
at thirty three, absolutely not.By thirty five thirty six, absolutely could
start to say that I felt good, by the way, because they rag
on me all the time. They'restill ragging on me. It's thirty six
years later, and I don't care. So if I could take the beatdowns
out here, you take the beatdownsout here. Good. No, couldn't
agree more. It's funny. Alot of the folks that are reading these

(16:03):
ten twelve books, you know,they'll what they'll do is they'll find the
quote they'll post on Instagram. Oneof the things that I found people in
our generations, your generations before us, not my generation, definitely not your
generation, your generation, our generation, the ones and the ones younger than
us. And but you know,there's a real big difference between motivation and
discipline people and get all motivated rawrah for a couple of days, and
they find something doesn't work for aweek and then they just move on to

(16:25):
something else. I would call theattention span of a fleet. But go
ahead. Yeah, And unfortunately thatis our generation with the social media and
being addicted to their screens instead ofyou know, I'm even getting like that
maybe longer than fifty nine seconds onbored Yes, understood. And I mean
if you put ten people that workin accounting or surgeons or people in all
these different issues, not in thetrades, in a room and said there's

(16:47):
a leaky faucet over there, andask them to try to fix that faucet.
They're not going to open the faucetand look for the little O ring
that's probably messed up. Right,They're going to call and say we need
a new foster. We're going toneed new this, We're going to need
to do that. So, justto your point, they're being able to
work with your hands. I'm beingin college. I would do playing baseball
on the weekends. I would doa couple of service calls, and I'd
have a thousand bucks in my pocketwhen none of my buddies had any money.
So I was always buying at dinners. I was buying this, I
was buying whatever. Are you avirgo of cancer? Cancer? I always

(17:11):
pick them done. I see amypics. Who am I caking? I'm
a piscey. That's even worse.Yeah, okay, you're a piscey.
So you just had a birthday,hadday. So pisces are very generous people.
Cancers are very generous people. Butwe're also very empathetic people. Yes,
we care about people. That's ourbiggest prom. Yeah, as Ray
says, when Cinny says she's donewith you, she's just getting started you

(17:32):
too. By the way, whenSamantha says she's done, she's done,
got it, she's an ares.She's done. She had not few.
We we just come back from more, more and more. We just like
that. So again, you comeout of plumbing, electrical, any of
the trades with no debt. Let'stalk about that. You're spending four years
going to college. You don't evenknow what you want when you come out.
So you do four more years ofhigh school, which is called liberal

(17:55):
lots, and you have all thisdebt and you're making eighteen dollars an hour.
Where's the philosophy? It's absolutely crazy. Again, kids belong in school.
I never will ever put down school. It's just going to be for
the right kid. And you gotto know who your kids are as parents.
That's it. Absolutely And then mostof these colleges, and obviously you

(18:17):
had good parents because they sat downtalk to you, and you talk to
them and they were in line withwhat you want to do. I thank
god, I'm very lucky to havethe best parents in the world. Hey,
parents said listening right now, hehad good parents. You might want
to take a page out of theirbook. Thank you, mom and dad.
You raised a good kid here.Good. No, I couldn't agree
more. And it's just cool likegoing to school and actually getting the hands
on like going to work and you'renot just sitting behind the desk all day

(18:38):
reading a book. To your point, going out there learning things, putting
your hands into places and actually touchingthings, doing things. I mean,
it's just such an important important skillto have. And the text schools in
the high school, and I knowthe ones post high school. I mean,
you're making money when you're going outwith these apprenticeship programs, which is
just absolutely fantastic. Can you getinto that so people understand People don't always
understand a printce programs our business.What becomes a journey man? Can you

(19:02):
break that down? Take it throughhow a plumber starts to where he becomes.
Yeah, so summer starts off asapprentice. Okay, explain to people
what an apprentice means. So anapprentices That's what I did in high school.
So apprentice means that you're working undera master plumber for around two thousand
hours. After you do your twothousand hours under a master plumber, you

(19:22):
can apply to go to Journeyman School, which they have in the Cape that's
in Highness. Once you go tothe journey Well that break. I'm sorry
they're sticking the liddle in my face. Yeah, I'm sidy stumping you.
Listen Toughes Nails on w DZ NewsRegular ten Thirty'll be right back sponsored by
Pillow Windows of Boston, Next DayMolding and Kennedy Carpet And welcome back to

(19:59):
Toughest Nail WBZ. Who's ready atten thirty And I'm here with who hear
me stumping? Thank you and DanDemadio and my boot and I'm city stump.
But we have one thing in common. All three of us know what
that is tenacity. No, weall have always at the end of our
name. God, what's wrong withyou people? You all really have a
comprehension problem. You didn't even noticethat one. Okay, go ahead,

(20:19):
No, I couldn't agree more soafter the apprenticeship program, but the two
thousand I was in two thousand apprenticeshiphours. Then you go to Journeyman's school,
which I think is you can spreadit out, I mean sixteen months,
two years, depending on how fastdo you want to do it.
Explain what Journeyman's school is so peoplereally understand it's actually working out in the
field and in the classroom. Yeah, so it's a ton of classroom hours.

(20:41):
I think it's around fifteen hundred classhours. It could have changed a
little bit. Now you can doit online. You can do it online.
There are options to do it online, which is great, which you
can do it at your convenience.You work during the day and if you
want to do some stuff at nightor early morning. It allows you to
kind of accelerate the program. Sothe difference in pay in Massachusetts, I'm
a journeyman. We don't know,let's not even talk union to apprentice is

(21:03):
how much money? Pretty significant?Well, as you start as an apprentice,
you're making about how much an hour? So that was thirty five okay,
I pay that to labors an houran hour. See how the world's
changing. Yes, okay, Sothe plumber apprentice is making thirty five dollars
an hour, and once he makesthat journeyman position, he makes how much
he's probably billing out the company atyou know, eighty bucks an hour?

(21:26):
Okay? And then one day thejourneyman owns his own plumbing company correct becomes
the master plumber, and he hasa massive boat out there that says sink
the subs like that's the running joke. When she sees have boats like that,
it's like, dude, that's thewrong name on a boat. Absolutely,
but do you see where I'm goingthat eighty dollars an hour? And

(21:48):
then if your union the union ratesare that's residential, by the way,
so union rates are even more thanthat, right, And then I I
and I think for me, andI was union for many years and open
shop clothes shop unions are great forkids. I think that need the discipline,
that need to be at work atfive or seven, start up at

(22:10):
seven, have your coffee at ten, have your lunch, check out a
three, go golf the rest ofthe day. Right, you have the
whole day after three o'clock. SoI sometimes think and I see the money
the unions are spending to get kidsinto the workforce, which is great.
They are spending millions, but thenthey get the first pick at all the
good kids, right that are comingout. The girls are getting in the

(22:30):
unions. You know. It's Isee a positive the era, but the
residential division, I don't see itas much. And the sad part about
my career is I've got to workwith the best of the best. When
men actually showed up at six thirtyin the morning, our job sites were
going at seven oh one, equipmentwas up and running. No one's walking

(22:52):
in with their Stabucks coffee. Sowe have two types of crew guys.
Right, we get the donkeys whileI'm holding and then we got the what's
the stop wars? Starbucks? Thankyou Starbucks. So my pretty boys with
the Starbucks and my real men creakdonkeys. Right. I always say that,
But the old days they came withtheir thermosis. They came with their
lunch, their wife packed them lunch, and I got to work with the

(23:14):
best of the best. So whenI go back in my brain at thirty
six years ago to now, somewherein the last ten to twelve years,
I used to say I on adevelopment and a construction company. Now I
just say I own an adult daycare center because all I do every morning
for three four hours is chase menaround. Guys, not the older guys,
the younger guys. Where are I'mon one twenty a dude? Was
there a snow star in July thatI don't know about? Because you've been

(23:37):
on one twenty eight for two dayslate? Stop just stop right now,
Okay. So I must be theonly woman that's been chasing men around most
of my career, right. AndI don't even want to have sex with
you, Budy, Okay. Ijust want you to come to work.
Okay. Is that really a lotto ask? So that's what I've seen,
and that's you, my daughter.You guys have never seen that generation
of men's when men were men andthey came to work and they were actually

(24:03):
proud of their work, and theywere skilled labor, and they got on
their backs, and they plastered ceilingson on scaffolding, doing designs on my
ceiling, not applied molding. Thisis what I saw. Now, you're
lucky if a guy knows the differencebetween two by four and two by six.
And that's really the truth. Soit's only going to get worse.
So what can we do because parentsare listening right now, right, what

(24:30):
can you teach these parents to say, listen, stop being so stubborn in
the way you think, and stopbeing with your girlfriends having to say,
oh, my kid's going north East, then my kid's going to be you.
My kids going to University of Miami. Be proud of what choices your
kid makes. Be proud because thatkid's not coming back to your basement to

(24:51):
live right or wrong? Right?Yeah, okay, No, couldn't agree
more. And I mean, I'mdefinitely proud of being in the trades.
And I I think, as againmentioned, as folks get older, they
realize how important they are again goingback to they are the better rock of
the communities here and across the country. So without the trades, without people
building, without development, you know, there could be no more businesses,
there could be no innovation, therecould be no of these beautiful things that

(25:14):
are happening here in Massachusetts that youfolks are working on all the time.
So well, let's look at thisway. We're seven million houses short right
now in the country. We're ina housing crisis, right you know that?
Yes, Okay, how are yougoing to make up that housing crisis?
Hear me out? First of all, products are way up, and
they've been up since COVID and they'renot leveling. The only thing that's come

(25:37):
down in my business lumber, andit's still double than what was in twenty
nineteen. Okay, concretes up.Pello just went up on windows. And
by the way, we don't getlike three months notice, we get like
a week notice. So if youstart taking the numbers we're spending on product,
you stop paying that skill gap rightfor skilled labor. We pay skilled
labor out there, We pay laborerswhat we're paying laborers to just keep job

(26:02):
sites clean. And then the interestrate, if you need to borrow money
from the bank, that's a problemright there, So you cannot catch up
on the housing supply. You're lookingat thirty years, twenty five years.
Interest rates need to come down.Place needs to come down. We get
to get to a new norm.But right now the subs are naming their

(26:22):
prices and they're getting it and we'repaying it as builders because we're paying for
responsible, reliable, and dependable.Do you hear what I'm saying? You're
responsible, you're reliable, and you'redependable. You're worth twenty percent more to
me because you're going to show up, you're going to come to work,
and you're gonna be there on time, and you like what you do.

(26:42):
I'm going to add twenty percent ontothat for coming and then knowing what you
know. Do you see the differencewhat we as builders the new builders.
I don't know what they're thinking.The days are sitting with a subcontractor and
try to negotiate their contract down.That ain't happening. H. Just don't
hire the guy that's got five thingson the truck that says we do windows,

(27:04):
gutns, insulation, finish work,flooring, stayway flows. Dudes,
Okay, they're master of everything andmayment of nothing. Is that the same?
M H. Find the guys.If you're going to hire guys in
your home to do work that specializein that, don't go for the cheapest
bid. Go for the moderate bid. Do your references, get good references

(27:26):
on these guys, Let them comein your home, hire them for your
businesses. Do you agree? Couldn'tagree more. And it's it's just absolutely
insane to me that you have topay somebody a premium just to show up
on time. I mean, thatis just Yeah, that's called being responsible,
liable, and dependable. Yes,I pay you for that. It's
just unbelievable that that's even a thing. I mean, I feel like back
in the day of showing up,that was just you were there early.
If you're no, that was youwere supposed to do that. Yeah,

(27:48):
because you want to hold your jobwith that company. You want to prove
yourself with that company. You wantto show that person that you come with
value. In our world today,all you need to show somebody like me
is you care and I'll love youfor the rest of the time I have
out here. Right. So,but Sammy, we're kind of very unusual.

(28:11):
Our subs have been with us fromten years to thirty six years.
Yeah, and the only way we'velost ever suba SI stampo is retirement of
death. It's called loyalty. Igive you loyalty. You get. If
you're mister plumber, you get firstshot everything. Second plumber that comes on,
he gets second shot, third,third, keep going. I'm loyal

(28:34):
to you. I expect loyalty back. Some of these kids come in,
they don't know what loyalty is.But let me tell you. When they
do an internship with me. Everysummer we take on ten twelve kids,
they know what loyalty is real fast, and I teach them loyalty because that's
a word most people don't know unlessyou're born a Pisces Virgo cancer. Well,

(28:55):
the signs, what the water signs? Yeah, we're all loyal.
Out of the way Scorpio Pisces cancerour water signs, I don't know,
just a certain signs that will oilVirgo's crazy. But they'll be very loyal
too. But okay, what areyou guys doing to make kids come in
and understand? Yeah, So thebiggest thing for us is we're trying to

(29:15):
educate and get the community to andget involved too. So meeting with you
know, elected or appointed officials,talking about you know, how do we
in these middle schools talk to youknow, the importance of Hey, guys,
when you're going to the cafeteria andyou're you're getting a drink out of
the water fountain. You're getting drinkout of here. You know, it's
fixing that. You know who's youknow? You know why you have these
things. It's because of the folksworking in the trades that maintain the buildings
and to do all these things.So I think just educating at a younger

(29:37):
age. I mean I knew veryyoung that if the water heater wasn't working,
we weren't having taking a shower.Correct, no hot water? Yeah,
so no water, no water,no water at all because the tank
dried out. So it's just emptiedout on all of your floor, of
your basement or wherever you And that'show that thought, we're coming, We're
going to break. We'll be rightback. I'm city stumbling. You listen
to Tough as Nails all well,Sammy WBZ News Radio ten their sponsored by

(29:59):
new Brook Real Group, Boston WoodSmaller Insurance, World Auto Body and Tosca
Drive Auto Body. I'm waiting andI'm sty stump on. You listen to

(30:21):
Toughest Nails on WBZ News Radio tenthirty. And I'm here with a bunch
of o's. What's your name,Sammy Stumpo and Dan Demadio. Okay,
damn, before I hit the micover to you for the fourth segment,
I'm just gonna remind people, mistermissus Jones out there, better listen.
Listen. Good your water heater breaksin the next I don't know, maybe
three years, four years, fiveyears. Good luck finding Sammy to replace

(30:41):
it. Good luck finding a guyto come out and not charge you an
almond leg to change your water heater. And by the way, you'll be
living in a hotel for five daysbecause what happens Dan, when a water
heater blows you have no water?Was that that be just hot? Or
in cold? Hot and cold?Thank you? And you can't but pressia
te do how do you live ina house with no water? You have

(31:02):
no water? Okay, take homethere. I want my listeners to know
everything that you do. Yeah,no, thank you very much. Yeah.
I couldn't agree more about the trades. So, by the way,
can you supply me with subcontractors?I can absolutely supply you with subcontractors.
So I'm down three guys, andI need three guys. I just call
your company and say send me over. Blah blah blah, you can call
my company cook and Sons and yeah. But by the way, my new

(31:25):
word is blah blah blah. That'scalled meta what pause, bray, thank
you, go ahead, No,absolutely, So what we're doing at Cape
Tech and with Cooking Sons my consultingfirm is we're putting together a repository of
plumbers that journeyman, master plumbers,electricians, HVAC, volts, really automotive.
There's sixteen different trades and sixteen differenttypes of industries that we work with.

(31:48):
And essentially, if we have somebodycall us in a certain demographic area
where we have an alumni graduate,we call, make the introduction and they
kind of work things out, sendthe quote, go take a look at
the job, so on and soforth. So it's really good. So,
as I mentioned that, I'm thechairman of the Cape cod Tech Alumni
Association, where essentially the board ismade up of folks. Let me let
me hold you the how do peoplereach you there? So they can reach

(32:09):
me at my email which is dDemadio at Capetech dot us. I'll ask
you that again at the end ofthe show, but go ahead. Just
want people know perfect thank you,and what we're really looking to do is
promote because Cindy mentioned I had somebody, had somebody call last week and say,
hey, something's up with my waterheater. I live in Brewster and
you know, they said they can'tcome up for two weeks. And it's

(32:30):
just you know, that's we're startingto see a lot of that different stuff.
And you know, to Cindy's point, if if you do go out
in a quicker fashion, I mean, the premium is going up thirty percent,
which as we know, with inflation, a lot of folks can't pay
these bills. Is are very expensiveand plumbers do not come cheap and I
do not ever see them coming anycheaper than they are currently are right now.
No, so the new norm isgoing up, not down. Absolutely

(32:53):
So I saw statistic recently too.You know, the average master plumber in
the countries in their forties exact,and ask you that, did you know
that the average plumbers in their fortiesand the average electrician is the same.
So what's going to happen if newpeople don't come in the business. We
can't build, We can'ts twenty years. You got no more plumbers. They're
gonna go out, They're gonna goout absolutely, and you know, you

(33:15):
look at these other jobs around thecountry where AI is starting to become a
component to those companies, and kindof AI can't build houses. AI cannot
come out and plumb your house.AI cannot do electrical AI is great,
it's wonderful for architects, civil engineers. I'm using it for emails now.
It's a great tool until it canbuild and come in and fix your house

(33:37):
or fix your leky roof you gethere with a snowstorm. I don't even
want to hear about it until wehave robarts. Is that the word?
Yes, I pronounce my ass you'rai. Okay, we don't have it
in our industry yet, so it'slike a dumb conversation right for us to
even have because we don't have anyof that. It doesn't serve us a
purpose in our world. Absolutely,And to that point to kind of run

(34:00):
in alignment there, it's you know, do you want to talk about job
security? I mean, the tradesis probably the most secure job to get
into in the world because of thatspecific reason. So for a younger generation,
I mean, I would be flockingto get into the trades because these
folks that are in their forties aregoing to retire in the next ten fifteen
years, and it's just going tobe all the taking for the folks that
are the experts and are hyper focusedin their craft. Okay, do you

(34:22):
understand that we started taping Tough asNails on HGTV what yes say? In
two thousand and nine to ten,nine to ten we talked about this.
It's twoenty and twenty four. Idiscussed this on Bloomberg Radio more than what
was that twenty eleven they came intoBoston. I was talking so over those

(34:43):
reporters heads. They're like, whatare you talking about? What skill gap?
But nobody was listening. I couldfeel it, and I said,
after the Oway crisis, guys aregoing in and getting full time jobs or
they're tiring out right, So we'regoing to have a problem here. If
you, if you any common sense, you saw this coming. Nobody sawt
coming. Mike Homes did, Mikero did. They spent a lot of

(35:07):
time. You know, both greatguys, love them. But I thought
we weren't making a difference. SoI'm out, I'm stepping out right.
So I push it on radio allthe time, but me running to schools
talking to students. No way,I'm done done doing that because the parents
are just they're blind. They wereblinders on, so go ahead finishing.

(35:28):
No, they absolutely do put blinderson. And again I feel so fortunate
that growing up very young, ata young age, I understand the importance
of trades. But I really thinkit's up to our communities. It's up
to our state and local government tokind of, you know, educate folks,
maybe provide some type of subsidies,because if we don't get people in
the trades again, we cannot continueto innovate. Massachusetts known as one of
the most innovative places in the country, arguably the world. So if you

(35:50):
know, we're definitely going to seea shortage in the labor and if we
don't do something about it, whetherit is a shortage, sorry the idea,
yep, only to get worse,to get worse, but go ahead,
No, only to get worse.And we're in time, We're in
a huge housing crisis, that oneof the bigger housing crisis I think that
we'll probably see in our time.And so in order to do that,
we really do need to get folksin the trades. And that's what you're

(36:12):
doing, and that's exactly what we'redoing. So again, I need a
plumbing company or is it that Ijust need one plumber to join in on
my crew. I can call you, you can call me, So you
supply one or two guys and theycan jump on my plumbing crew, one
or two electricians, they can jumpon my life. Explain. Yeah,
So we can kind of assess situation, learn a little bit more about the

(36:32):
project. Where the resources that you'rekind of looking forward are the skill sets
you're looking for. You're looking foran apprentice, you looking for a journeyan,
and you're looking for somebody that cancome do the rough finish, so
on and so forth. So we'llreally kind of assess the situation, teriologist
situation, then identify the resources thatwe appropriate for the job. And these
kids are aging from what to what? So it spans, I mean,
you know, from twenty five toforty really, so Cape Contech's been so

(36:54):
the high school was nineteen seventy five, so we're actually coming up on our
fifty year anniversary and sense nineteen seventyfive, we've averaged putting forty students from
Cape con Tech into the Cape andIslands and the south Shore and Boston workforce,
which is significant. That's a bigone because we get more calls to
go to the Islands, and I'mnot coming to the Islands anymore. Those
days are long gone for me,long gone, right, Sammy, I

(37:15):
can't. I can't do the islandstransport everything over the boat. Oh my
god. That's like a disaster.And the truth is, the island they
don't really want us. They don'tthe Islanders don't want Mainland guys coming over
there and working. Right, eventhough you guys got a big alcohol problem
over there. Okay, we bighuge over there, but huge. And
my clients call me, they havehomes there and there's nothing can do,

(37:37):
can't help you. They're waiting monthsfor a tracy. They're waiting months for
everything over there. Yeah. Ilived on Nantucka for a couple of years,
and they're exactly right. They definitelykeep trying to keep everything in house.
Yeah, try to keep everything forthemselves out there and take care of
the people out there, because Imean, it is very, very difficult
to live out there and the offseason folks that live over there full time.

(37:58):
But I will say it is definitelya community. I mean, working
in the hospital. I mean,someone would come into the er, for
example, and if they didn't,the taxis weren't running in the middle of
the winter. I mean, Iwould just drive them home. And that's
just kind of how people just drovethe drove home. Yeah, it's just
kind of people. Everyone takes careof each other over there. And to
your point about kind of promoting doingthe right things, I mean, I've
told anyone that I work with it'sworked for me in the past, so
on and so forth. You know, if you always, always, always

(38:21):
try to do the right thing inevery single situation, there's two things that
are going to happen. Number One, you're gonna sleep pretty damn good at
night. And number two, ifyou made a mistake, you can always
explain the route as to why youmade that decision. Are you sure that's
not my kid? You wish?But I wish. Where's Chad when you
need him to hear the conversation?And he's Chad's age. So you see
how you have philosophy is you're alot like me. I was like you

(38:45):
at thirty. I don't change thisis who I am. So just listening
to you talk is just like abreath of fresh. Yeah, well it's
an honor for you to compare yourselfto me. That means a lot.
So thank you for You're very welcome. But that's the truth. So what
I when I always meet people thatyour age that speak the way you do.
I look at you guys as phenoms. Now you're not living in Disney

(39:06):
World going yeah, I'm gonna beTikTok famous. Yeah, I would be
Instagram famous. You can do that, and maybe you will be. But
get a job during the day andthen do that as your side hustle,
right, absolutely, and maybe aside hustle will become your main hustle.
Absolutely, So I keep talking.Tell me what else? No, No,
I could couldn't agree more. Yeah, just get to work. I
mean at the end of the day, Like if you people that wake up

(39:28):
and don't get tough, I justdon't get it. You got to just
get to work. Do something,Go learn something, go do something,
make a mistake, do it again, jump on the horse, and just
keep grinding. So if there's anybuilders listening to you right now and they
need guys to jump on their cruise, they can get in touch with you.
They can absolutely get in touch withme. So you need people like
me to hire your people coming outof school. Am I correct? Absolutely,

(39:49):
and place them absolutely with HVAC companies, plumbing companies, electrical companies,
good companies that are going to paythem, absolutely right, because those guys
like the worst because they great guys, but collecting money, and builders are
always trying to hurt them, youknow, they're always trying to sink the
subs and then they can't. Theydon't have the money to pay the guys.
So you got to learn how tobe a little bit of a businessman

(40:12):
too, That's what. And I'vetaught all my guys that, like,
don't tolerate anybody not paying you.All that thought, I'm stay stumbling.
You listen to Top of Nails onWBZ News Radio ten thirty and welcome back
to Toughest Nails on WBZ News Radioten thirty. Go ahead, buddy,
take us out. Yeah, sothank thank you all very much for having

(40:35):
me here today. So to kindof little give but my company Cooking Sons
with the old group by the way, Cooking Sons. So essentially what we
do is we develop public private partnerships, so we go into different communities across
the Commonwealth. We identify real estatedevelopment programs that can positively benefit all societal
layers of the community, from youthall the way up to senior citizens.
So for example, we're looking tobuild sports complex with after school programs for

(40:58):
kids to come to and then duringthe week when the kids are in school,
where haven't senior citizens you know,use it for bingo and for dancing
and for different programs like that tomake sure the community remains engaged. Best
contact for me would be danat Cookansunsdot com. Dan at Cookansuns dot com.
Dan, I'm Cindy Stumpo. Itwas a pleasure meeting you. I
want to shake your hand. You'rea phenom at thirty years old. Everybody,

(41:20):
have a great, safe weekend andwe'll see you next weekend. I'm
Cindy Stumpo. Toughest Nails on WBZNews Radio ten thirty