December 6, 2025 • 13 mins
After a tough few months for Te Pati Maori, its AGM is taking place today.
Co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said the country is "facing the most destructive government in our history," and the party is set on "making this a one term government."
Meanwhile, 3 of 4 of Mariameno Kapa-Kingi's requests in her ongoing legal proceedings were declined by the judge - but her request to remain a party member was accepted until February 2026.
Party President John Tamihere remains in office as the AGM goes forward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What's been an interesting few months for t Party Mari
there agms taking place today. Co leader Debbie Nari Wapaka said,
the country is facing the most destructive government in our history. Wow,
big call. And the party is set on making this
a one term government. Meanwhile, three of four of Maria
(00:30):
Meno Karpa Kingi's requests and ongoing legal proceedings were declined.
But this is by judge. But her request to remain
a party member was accepted until February twenty twenty six.
Party President John Tammerherry remains in office as the AGM
goes forward. And someone who's keeping on this is a
Mari studies academic, Rawiti Tonui, and he joins me now, Rawaiti,
(00:52):
good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Ah. I can't keep up, but.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
The only one.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What does it all mean with this reinstatement for a start.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, what the judges said is that there's some serious
questions around the process that was used to expel Meriamental
and that you know, he said a couple of other things.
For instance, one of the reasons for her expulsion were
the financials around her internal parliamentary budget, and the point
(01:28):
he made is that that wasn't to Party Maori funds.
Those funds were from parliamentary services and for all intents
and purposes, they were resolved properly, so that means she
gets to go back in. Well. The other reason was
on process. The ty Tokoto electorate committee weren't at the vote,
(01:50):
but he didn't make conclusions on those. They all have
to be revisited on February.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
The second just I mean, from what I understand about
administrative law and that sort of thing, it's really just
a case of the process wasn't followed. If they go
back dot the cross the t's and she's gone in February.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, both sides will get to put their case. I
think there will be more detail. Is there's still a
lot that we don't know, but I would think that
the final decision by the judge is going to be
rerun the vote and then there comes down to two numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No chance of everyone kissing and making up.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think yes, I mean all of us Wathington Party,
Maori and the really big win in twenty twenty three,
the mass of increased majority audity obtained in the Tamaki
Makodo by election. You know, people are in Maori communities
are really really admiring of that, particularly you know, the
(02:58):
turnout and the numbers of young Maori voters that are participating.
So it's quite sad. It's got a way to go,
and it's I don't think I personally, I think it
is beyond reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So what does it mean for Marie politics? Because to
Party Mario likes to think that that's it's you know,
it's it oversees all these things. But there are different views,
of course, And as we see Maria Meno, she might
be gone in February. Where does she go? What does
it mean for Marie politics?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yes, well, I think the value people will see into
Party mariy is that it's copropper, Mary Strong, you know,
unapologetically Mary and all those sorts of things, and that's
really resonated with younger voters. If I'm predicting what an
outcome might be in the next election cycle, I think
(03:47):
that to party Mary is still going to be there,
but I think that the numbers might be smaller.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So labor will be licking their lips, will they?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yes? And you know that the mission for to party
Mariy is not only to assist changing government, you know,
alongside the Greens in labor and so on, but is
to position themselves as a viable, possible partner. And you know,
the current combination is obviously not working, and so that
(04:20):
if they're a bit smaller, they need people that can
work together.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What do they need to do to make themselves look
viable because it doesn't look they don't look so flash
at the moment, do they.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well. I watched an interview the other day with Finlayson,
you know, he was the Treaty Settlement's minister. Yeah, Chris,
and he was saying, you know, one of the key
things in a governing party is discipline. And obviously what
we're seeing is a lot of very random stuff, a
(04:53):
lot of it's as highly personalized online, and that just
is not going to meet the measure. So if they
don't resolve it and they win a few seats, they'll
find themselves on the outer of being part of any arrangement,
I think, And you know, I also understand that they're
already preliminary discussions about maybe New Zealand first they're a
(05:15):
better option.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What what who's saying that New Zealand First is a
better option.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Of So I understand that some people within labor are saying, hey, listen,
if Party Mary is still a mess, then maybe if
we need a third option, maybe we need to be
talking with New Zealand First again. And we've seen from
Winston he's already positioning himself in that in that regard,
(05:42):
you know. I mean, he's the master of spotting the
opportunity showtime.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, So how the AGM, what's how's that? How that going?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well? I've got a couple of mates out of there,
and but their cell phones are also I have no idea.
I think one of the things the key thing for
the a GM is really just to keep things stable
and and there's a new process now and stick with that.
There is a bit of protection there because items to
be discussed at the AGEM have to be lodged or
(06:12):
a few weeks in advance. You know, who knows there
might be an attempt to put up a motion vote
of no confidence. You don't know. I think if that happened,
my gut feeling is that John TAMERHEADI and the leaders
would still have the numbers to defeat that but you
don't know, so.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What do you reckon they need that the party because
I mean I sort of look at it all the
maschinations going on as an outsider, and it's not something
I involve Salven heavily. But I don't actually think it's
as I mean, the media love this, political pundits love it.
I actually don't think it's as big a deal when
it comes to election time because it's a bit of theatrics,
(06:56):
and as we know with it, there's that's always around
in politics and some ard Agu and Mari politics. Ra
Yt is quite theatrical and he wants to be. I
don't know if it's if I was to say, none
of this really means much. They'll sort it out, They'll
have some candidates and eyone will vote away we go.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, I think the first half of next year could
continue to be messy, but I think they'll reach a
position where they whoever's still standing, would be working together
for the next election. You know, your point about media
reaction is really important. There's a lot of regurgitating of
the allegations from last year, and a lot of stuff
(07:35):
being re regurgerated about John Tammaheady. You know, is he
a bully or so on. You know. You know, one
of one of the things on that is is when
Maddy of men Or won to ty Talkato, she actually
lost the advanced and election day polling boosts north of Faraday,
(07:55):
so her her hometown and also her the area where
home tribes are based. She lost those booths and six
to forty eight. And where she did win was in
the Kuipitra, West Auckland and East Auckland coast, and she
won there principally, one thinks, because that was flooded with
(08:19):
people volunteers coming out of Auckland to support her, and
they were organized by John Tummyhad, which is not a
you know, that's a supportive sort of thing. So, you know,
we'll see the bottom line an election twenty twenty six
is what happens with the eighteen to twenty four year
(08:41):
old Maori vote in the Maori electorates. And then that
also hingures on whether Hannah might p Clark stays in
the party.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, yeah, hey, just I'm just trying to I just
want to make sure I understand what you said there
were you saying that the with Maria Meno or the
places that were most closely connected with her didn't support
her in the same way as places more distant that
Tama Harry whipped up.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, she lost. She lost the boots, the booths in
the north, so her home tribes and up or you know,
and her hometown's she lost those boots booths one hundred
and six to forty eight.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Now, now the booths south of there. So coming down
into the northern edge of Auckland, the Kuipra East Coast
Bays up to south of she won those booths one
hundred and seven to seventy one. Now that was because
of the volunteer effort out of Auckland, and the organizer
for that was John Tommy.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
She's history. Then.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well the other thing is laboring. The Greens together got
three thousand more votes than Muddy and Mental, but they
split their vote and that's how she came through the middle.
So I think if she's standing as a independent, then
I was by election next week she would probably lose.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, So when are we going to When do you
think we can expect to hear some interesting policy as
opposed to all the you know, that's.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
What's happened today. I think, you know, let's hope things
have gone well and people have been mature and want
to work through the next step of this process. But
on the other hand, there may have been random things happen,
and we'll probably learn about that later tonight and tomorrow morning,
and we'll be talking about it again on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When you say let's let's have people have been mature,
is that you implying that behavior so far has been
far from that?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yes? I think so, you know. Actually, to their credit,
I think John Tamaheri, Devs, Mardi W. Packer, and yt
T have avoided making personalized statements, and to her credit
the natural fact so is Mardi a mental But I
think the stuff that we've heard from her son Idu,
(11:01):
and also a lot of the stuff we're hearing out
of Taku to Ferris, has been highly personalized and not
really fact based, and I think that's been very, very
damaging and very disappointing.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Just one question, as someone who observes these things and
commentates on them, what's your general reaction as yourself? Is
it sort of do you find it in thralling or
do you go, oh god, this is painful, Because there
is we all love a bit of intrigue and a
bit of backstabbing, don't we.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, well, you know I'm a political fet to cercifices both,
and so I find it. On one hand, I find
it enthralling. But I find this very saddening. When they
won the Tarmaki by election, they basically paved the pathway
for a clean sweep of all the Maori electorates. And
just beneath that youth vote, there are now more Maori
(11:56):
aged eighteen to twenty four voting in the Maori electorates
than vote in all sixty four all the other sixty
four general electorates. And the other thing is is their
turnout is increase from fifty percent in twenty fourteen to
seventy percent today. And that's my young Maori people have
(12:19):
never voted at that level at any time in the
history of our countrytuly I.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Did say it was my last question, but I've got
one more based on what you just said, because when
people get annoyed with the with the goings on, they
turn off from voting. Is that a real risk with
what we've seen go on? Or do you think they
managed to get it together by you and get the
turnout of here.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I'm hoping that they'll get it together. But let's just
say if you know, because Hannah might be. Clark came
out publicly and said there's been faults on both sides
and she was thinking of leaving politics. If she leaves
to party, Mary, I think that's going to have a
serious impact on their youth.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
What to be a symbollotu blot tragedy, wouldn't it?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, it would be. She's highly talented, really gifted and
obviously a futurely for the party and there would be
a said loss not only for Mari but for air country.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, Hi, Rari, I really appreciate your time, this affenoing.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. Mate, Really I.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Can mate, take it easy. Bye bye, oh God.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What's been an interesting few months for t Party Mari
there agms taking place today. Co leader Debbie Nari Wapaka said,
the country is facing the most destructive government in our history. Wow,
big call. And the party is set on making this
a one term government. Meanwhile, three of four of Maria
(00:30):
Meno Karpa Kingi's requests and ongoing legal proceedings were declined.
But this is by judge. But her request to remain
a party member was accepted until February twenty twenty six.
Party President John Tammerherry remains in office as the AGM
goes forward. And someone who's keeping on this is a
Mari studies academic, Rawiti Tonui, and he joins me now, Rawaiti,
(00:52):
good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Ah. I can't keep up, but.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
The only one.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What does it all mean with this reinstatement for a start.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, what the judges said is that there's some serious
questions around the process that was used to expel Meriamental
and that you know, he said a couple of other things.
For instance, one of the reasons for her expulsion were
the financials around her internal parliamentary budget, and the point
(01:28):
he made is that that wasn't to Party Maori funds.
Those funds were from parliamentary services and for all intents
and purposes, they were resolved properly, so that means she
gets to go back in. Well. The other reason was
on process. The ty Tokoto electorate committee weren't at the vote,
(01:50):
but he didn't make conclusions on those. They all have
to be revisited on February.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
The second just I mean, from what I understand about
administrative law and that sort of thing, it's really just
a case of the process wasn't followed. If they go
back dot the cross the t's and she's gone in February.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, both sides will get to put their case. I
think there will be more detail. Is there's still a
lot that we don't know, but I would think that
the final decision by the judge is going to be
rerun the vote and then there comes down to two numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No chance of everyone kissing and making up.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think yes, I mean all of us Wathington Party,
Maori and the really big win in twenty twenty three,
the mass of increased majority audity obtained in the Tamaki
Makodo by election. You know, people are in Maori communities
are really really admiring of that, particularly you know, the
(02:58):
turnout and the numbers of young Maori voters that are participating.
So it's quite sad. It's got a way to go,
and it's I don't think I personally, I think it
is beyond reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So what does it mean for Marie politics? Because to
Party Mario likes to think that that's it's you know,
it's it oversees all these things. But there are different views,
of course, And as we see Maria Meno, she might
be gone in February. Where does she go? What does
it mean for Marie politics?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yes, well, I think the value people will see into
Party mariy is that it's copropper, Mary Strong, you know,
unapologetically Mary and all those sorts of things, and that's
really resonated with younger voters. If I'm predicting what an
outcome might be in the next election cycle, I think
(03:47):
that to party Mary is still going to be there,
but I think that the numbers might be smaller.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So labor will be licking their lips, will they?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yes? And you know that the mission for to party
Mariy is not only to assist changing government, you know,
alongside the Greens in labor and so on, but is
to position themselves as a viable, possible partner. And you know,
the current combination is obviously not working, and so that
(04:20):
if they're a bit smaller, they need people that can
work together.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What do they need to do to make themselves look
viable because it doesn't look they don't look so flash
at the moment, do they.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well. I watched an interview the other day with Finlayson,
you know, he was the Treaty Settlement's minister. Yeah, Chris,
and he was saying, you know, one of the key
things in a governing party is discipline. And obviously what
we're seeing is a lot of very random stuff, a
(04:53):
lot of it's as highly personalized online, and that just
is not going to meet the measure. So if they
don't resolve it and they win a few seats, they'll
find themselves on the outer of being part of any arrangement,
I think, And you know, I also understand that they're
already preliminary discussions about maybe New Zealand first they're a
(05:15):
better option.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What what who's saying that New Zealand First is a
better option.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Of So I understand that some people within labor are saying, hey, listen,
if Party Mary is still a mess, then maybe if
we need a third option, maybe we need to be
talking with New Zealand First again. And we've seen from
Winston he's already positioning himself in that in that regard,
(05:42):
you know. I mean, he's the master of spotting the
opportunity showtime.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, So how the AGM, what's how's that? How that going?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well? I've got a couple of mates out of there,
and but their cell phones are also I have no idea.
I think one of the things the key thing for
the a GM is really just to keep things stable
and and there's a new process now and stick with that.
There is a bit of protection there because items to
be discussed at the AGEM have to be lodged or
(06:12):
a few weeks in advance. You know, who knows there
might be an attempt to put up a motion vote
of no confidence. You don't know. I think if that happened,
my gut feeling is that John TAMERHEADI and the leaders
would still have the numbers to defeat that but you
don't know, so.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What do you reckon they need that the party because
I mean I sort of look at it all the
maschinations going on as an outsider, and it's not something
I involve Salven heavily. But I don't actually think it's
as I mean, the media love this, political pundits love it.
I actually don't think it's as big a deal when
it comes to election time because it's a bit of theatrics,
(06:56):
and as we know with it, there's that's always around
in politics and some ard Agu and Mari politics. Ra
Yt is quite theatrical and he wants to be. I
don't know if it's if I was to say, none
of this really means much. They'll sort it out, They'll
have some candidates and eyone will vote away we go.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, I think the first half of next year could
continue to be messy, but I think they'll reach a
position where they whoever's still standing, would be working together
for the next election. You know, your point about media
reaction is really important. There's a lot of regurgitating of
the allegations from last year, and a lot of stuff
(07:35):
being re regurgerated about John Tammaheady. You know, is he
a bully or so on. You know. You know, one
of one of the things on that is is when
Maddy of men Or won to ty Talkato, she actually
lost the advanced and election day polling boosts north of Faraday,
(07:55):
so her her hometown and also her the area where
home tribes are based. She lost those booths and six
to forty eight. And where she did win was in
the Kuipitra, West Auckland and East Auckland coast, and she
won there principally, one thinks, because that was flooded with
(08:19):
people volunteers coming out of Auckland to support her, and
they were organized by John Tummyhad, which is not a
you know, that's a supportive sort of thing. So, you know,
we'll see the bottom line an election twenty twenty six
is what happens with the eighteen to twenty four year
(08:41):
old Maori vote in the Maori electorates. And then that
also hingures on whether Hannah might p Clark stays in
the party.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, yeah, hey, just I'm just trying to I just
want to make sure I understand what you said there
were you saying that the with Maria Meno or the
places that were most closely connected with her didn't support
her in the same way as places more distant that
Tama Harry whipped up.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, she lost. She lost the boots, the booths in
the north, so her home tribes and up or you know,
and her hometown's she lost those boots booths one hundred
and six to forty eight.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Now, now the booths south of there. So coming down
into the northern edge of Auckland, the Kuipra East Coast
Bays up to south of she won those booths one
hundred and seven to seventy one. Now that was because
of the volunteer effort out of Auckland, and the organizer
for that was John Tommy.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
She's history. Then.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well the other thing is laboring. The Greens together got
three thousand more votes than Muddy and Mental, but they
split their vote and that's how she came through the middle.
So I think if she's standing as a independent, then
I was by election next week she would probably lose.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, So when are we going to When do you
think we can expect to hear some interesting policy as
opposed to all the you know, that's.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
What's happened today. I think, you know, let's hope things
have gone well and people have been mature and want
to work through the next step of this process. But
on the other hand, there may have been random things happen,
and we'll probably learn about that later tonight and tomorrow morning,
and we'll be talking about it again on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When you say let's let's have people have been mature,
is that you implying that behavior so far has been
far from that?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yes? I think so, you know. Actually, to their credit,
I think John Tamaheri, Devs, Mardi W. Packer, and yt
T have avoided making personalized statements, and to her credit
the natural fact so is Mardi a mental But I
think the stuff that we've heard from her son Idu,
(11:01):
and also a lot of the stuff we're hearing out
of Taku to Ferris, has been highly personalized and not
really fact based, and I think that's been very, very
damaging and very disappointing.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Just one question, as someone who observes these things and
commentates on them, what's your general reaction as yourself? Is
it sort of do you find it in thralling or
do you go, oh god, this is painful, Because there
is we all love a bit of intrigue and a
bit of backstabbing, don't we.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, well, you know I'm a political fet to cercifices both,
and so I find it. On one hand, I find
it enthralling. But I find this very saddening. When they
won the Tarmaki by election, they basically paved the pathway
for a clean sweep of all the Maori electorates. And
just beneath that youth vote, there are now more Maori
(11:56):
aged eighteen to twenty four voting in the Maori electorates
than vote in all sixty four all the other sixty
four general electorates. And the other thing is is their
turnout is increase from fifty percent in twenty fourteen to
seventy percent today. And that's my young Maori people have
(12:19):
never voted at that level at any time in the
history of our countrytuly I.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Did say it was my last question, but I've got
one more based on what you just said, because when
people get annoyed with the with the goings on, they
turn off from voting. Is that a real risk with
what we've seen go on? Or do you think they
managed to get it together by you and get the
turnout of here.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I'm hoping that they'll get it together. But let's just
say if you know, because Hannah might be. Clark came
out publicly and said there's been faults on both sides
and she was thinking of leaving politics. If she leaves
to party, Mary, I think that's going to have a
serious impact on their youth.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
What to be a symbollotu blot tragedy, wouldn't it?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, it would be. She's highly talented, really gifted and
obviously a futurely for the party and there would be
a said loss not only for Mari but for air country.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, Hi, Rari, I really appreciate your time, this affenoing.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. Mate, Really I.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Can mate, take it easy. Bye bye, oh God.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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