March 28, 2025 • 19 mins
Nick Rocco check in on what to expect in Karen Read's new trial
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dashly and the jam In Morning Show with DJ fourn
It's such a good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Bustin's number one for hip hop jamm In ninety four
or five. Hi, everybody, Good morning Sashley and the jam
In Morning Show.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I think that I have always made it very very
clear whenever we talk Karen Reid that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
There are two sides to this.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And if you're somebody who watched the recent documentary Body
in the Snow on Max, I think you that documentary
does a very very good job of painting the picture
that there are two very very stark different sides to this,
and there will continue to be as we gear up
for trial number two. We are consistently joined by Nick Rocco,
(00:47):
and I know Nick can attest to this, but anytime
we have Nick on, I say in the beginning of
the call six one seven nine three one one nine
four five, if you are somebody that thinks differently than Nick,
you are more than welcome to call.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Nick is more than welcome to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Uh. We were joined about a week or so ago
with Jackie Dougal. She came on the show and she,
you know, kind of talked about her side of things.
We listened, and again that is why this, to me
is always going to be such a salacious hot case
that people want to hear all the new, latest updates too,
(01:22):
because there are such massively different opinions on.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It, and let's just say, people are enthusiastic on both sides,
both sides.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Really.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, all right, Nick is joining us, Nick, good morning,
welcome back.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
How's everyone doing?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It's funny chatting with you and then seeing you on
my screen in my bedroom not to be a croup.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh you were.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You were in the dock there at the very end,
the dock that everybody is talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yeah, that was that was interesting. We had a lot
of we had a lot of people who were supposed
to be in it, and I think due to the
outcome being a mistrial, the producer had to take a
different direction and include the other side because initially it
was more of a you know, a pro Karen readocumentary.
(02:11):
It was supposed to be all about her, her supporters
and so on. And then once the mistrial happened, I
believe they wanted to show more of a neutral side
because they didn't really have an answer from the court.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Wow, that's actually a really interesting information, because here's the thing.
There's a lot of people and I said this earlier,
that feel like that that documentary didn't do much for Karen.
And I thought that to be interesting because it certainly
seems like the cameras were with her a lot more
than anybody else. So I thought to myself, this must
be something that her and her team thought would be
a good thing for her. But most of the people
(02:46):
that I chat with are like, I don't know, she
didn't come across very likable in that documentary. I'm sure
you've had somebody say that to you. When they do,
how do you answer that?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I mean, personally, I don't think it affected one way
or another. I don't think anything at this point is
going to change the non guilty or guilty minds of people.
And if anything, this this documentary that was aired is
you know, viewed by Massachusetts residents, but it's obviously across
the whole United States. But from what I know with
(03:19):
this documentary, I mean, for example, they came to my
hand salon. I spent about six hours filming with them
throughout the whole process, and I think, you know, maybe
two seconds of myself was in that documentary. They really
portrayed this as a pro carent read documentary where everyone
from her side was in it. They had they had
(03:41):
hours and hours of footage from the defense team. As
we know, Hank Brennan is now requesting all of this
footage to try to use against her. But you know
there was a falling out between the producer and in
the reads where it wasn't It wasn't what they were
almost promised of a pro carent read documentary. So again,
(04:03):
I don't think it's going to really change the minds
of people who are already dug into this, but it
is what it is. It's out there, and I'm sure
there are going to be more out there too.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think people would be shocked to know this about you,
because you've always been somebody that's very pro Karen Reid.
You haven't missed anything. You've always come on the show,
given us updates. You're in the courtroom, You're kind of
in the trenches with Karen. But when I don't really
want to go into it, I think Jackie had heard time.
We're talking to you now. But I will say, just
(04:32):
so everybody knows, the day that I had Jackie on
Nick text me and he said, Listen, you're going to
get some hate for this, just like I do when
I come on, but kind of insinuating to me that
no matter what, it's not fair how both sides kind
of treat each other. And I think people probably wouldn't
(04:53):
believe that you would say something like that, especially being
so pro Karen read. But you do understand that there
are people that have another opinion, and you're like, Okay,
that's your opinion.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I don't think you're right, but you all think we
can kind of live in the same space.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yeah, I think it's become the Karen Reid guilty versus
not guilty has kind of become Democrat versus Republicans. I mean,
it's it's it's kind of insane to be honest at
the end of the day, right, we all have our
own opinions on this case. Do I feel like, you know,
people should hate each other over this? Absolutely not. You
(05:30):
can see differently, But at the end of the day,
I'm willing to have a conversation with anybody. Doesn't mean
I'm going to hate you for what you think. I
would just like you to hear my side and hopefully
you know, change of mind. But like I said, there's
no changing anyone's mind at this point. But I would
say that, I mean, this is just an estimate, but
(05:51):
I'd say at least ninety five percent of Massachusetts believe
she's not guilty. It's a very select few that think
she is guilty. That's why, you know, not too many
people call into the station and want to say she's guilty.
It's just a very select skeew and it is what
it is.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well playing Devil's Advocate on that, I would. I would
I put on Jackie. We did an interview and.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I was.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I was getting messages that I couldn't even believe what
they said. I think people are afraid, Nick, if I'm
being really honest with you, I think people are afraid
to say.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Hey, I don't know, this doesn't really add up to me.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I you know, I saw the text message exchange between
John O'Keefe and Karen the Knight that.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He died, and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I something didn't seem right to me about the whatever
the case you'd be. I'm using that as an example,
but I do think people are I think it's more
acceptable right now to say I am on the free
Karen read side.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I don't know if you guys agree with me on that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I do now, especially when you compare it to like
the political stuff too, like if you say you're oppose
or whatever. The last couple of years has been really tough.
I feel like with this it's going down the same
exact path people are. They don't want to go against
it because they hate that they hit online.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
And to the point of when Nick is saying a
lot of people don't call in, I think they you know,
if you're not listening with open ends, you might think
we're very biased and lean to the Karen Reid side, right,
So they're like, why am I going to call the
station that's already pro Karen exactly. They're not going to
give me a fair shot. So I think that's why
a lot of people don't call.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It, when in reality, I think, you know, we've been
open to hearing all of it. It's just you know,
I and I this is a compliment to Nick.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Nick, you know your stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And you're in the courtroom, you're you're seeing the evidence,
you're you know, repeating what you're hearing in court, and
I think it intimidates people too, all right, So documentary
comes out, we're learning a lot more. I think one
thing Nick that stood out to me big time in
the documentary is how far John's body was from the
(07:49):
front door of the house. So I want to ask
you this because I'm looking at the maps and I'm
seeing where his body was, and I'm thinking, Okay, if
this was this elaborate set up inside the house, that's
a long way to drag a body all the way
out to the street. Did they ever bring that up
to you, because I feel like I hadn't really seen
the map of it as much as I did in
(08:10):
that dock, and I'm watching it, I'm like, dang, that
would be a long drag of a body all the
way out to the street.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
No, the front yard is really not as big as
if you go in person the front The front yard
really isn't as big as it seems in like a pitcher.
But I don't think the defence's theory is that they
dragged him out the front door. I believe it is that,
you know, this incident happened in the basement. He has
a bulkhead door, and they got he got taken out
(08:38):
the backyard and where the fence is the fence has
a gate which is basically directly right in front of
the flagpole. But also I wouldn't necessarily necessarily say dragged.
He could have been carried by two big men. So
I mean, put it this way, people move bodies from
from their vehicle into the middle of the ocean. So
(09:01):
it's not it's not really about the distance, it's about
how it happened. Yeah, because don't forget right, there was
a vehicle parked at at around three in the morning
exactly where John's body was found. The next morning, Lucky
Law and the plow driver testified that there was a
vehicle parked exactly at the flagpole early in the morning
(09:21):
where John's body was. So how did the person whoever
was driving that vehicle not see John there on the lawn.
We don't know how he got there, whether he was
you know, put put in the back of a car
and driven over there, or if he was if he
was brought outside from the garage. I mean, yeah, no
one really knows exactly what happened. It just the facts
(09:45):
and the evidence of how a tail light breaks does
not break into forty five pieces off someone's arm, So
how did that how did it break I mean, how
did John end up there with the injuries he has
when you look at John's injuries. Which another thing is
Garrett Wing is going to be one of the experts
for the defense team. If you don't know who he is,
(10:05):
you can YouTube him, you can look him up online.
He is one of the top canine police dog trainers
there is out there. This guy is going to explain
how a dog attacks, where they attack, and basically confirm
that those are dog bites on the arm. So it
just if John had different injuries, maybe it would make
more sense than Karen Reid hit him with the car.
(10:27):
But his injuries just don't match up to being struck
by a vehicle.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And that was brought up many times in the documentary.
From the neck down? Where are the injuries? Another thing
that stood out to me big time is, and I've
said this a million times, maybe Karen did do this,
but if she did, it was botched so bad by
so many different people that there's enough reasonable doubt there.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Nick this stood out to me so much.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
We got multiple people on the stand saying I heard
Karen say I hit him, I hit him, hit him,
I hit him. Not one of those people wrote it
in a report. How And I think at one point
Alan Jackson's like, somebody says that right there, it's done,
Like we're arresting her. She's telling us hit him, I
hit him. But yet nobody not ems not a firefighter, nobody,
nobody writes that down in the report. We found the victim,
(11:18):
the body was there, the woman that says she's the girlfriend,
says I hit him, I hit.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Him, but nobody writes it down. That's tough.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I mean, everyone wants to say it's an emission of guilt, right,
and she admitted to it. Yet she she apparently said
this right in front of a cop, and he didn't
arrest her, He didn't bring her down to the police station.
A question her on the spot, which makes me believe
it actually was a question and not an admission of
guilt of did I hit him? Could I have done this?
How did he end up here? Like this doesn't make sense?
(11:49):
And yeah, you're right, it wasn't in any report. That
that's a pretty big piece of evidence to get in
a report.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Stands out.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, I think I think one inch same thing too,
is Scorty Bellow, which was the state's medical examiner on
the stand, said that this is not consistent with what
they've seen to be as a vehicle pedestrian strike. So
you know what the state's not doing. They don't plan
on calling the state's medical examiner because they don't want
(12:19):
her to say that on the stand, and they also
don't want her to say that the manner of death
was undetermined because it doesn't help their case. The only
thing that they really have going for them is that
Karen Reid's tail light is broken. But this so much
reasonable doubt around the tail light that you really can't
even say that it was from hitting John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean there, Yeah, I will the reasonable debt.
I will stand with you on another thing that I
just hits. Really, I'm in the jury and I'm hearing
this and I'm like it, make it make sense to me.
The famous butt dials, the famous butt dials at all
hours of the night. We got one button. I'm like, cool,
(13:01):
I get it. But guys, we're talking three four five
butt dials. We're talking a one second butt dialed in
a twenty two second butt a just it it. It
plants reasonable doubt, and reasonable doubt is what's going to
be the most important thing going into this next trial
because there is so much of it. Regardless of where
you stand on this, I know we're running out of time,
(13:24):
but we have Stacy want to ask you a question,
and then I want to talk about the war room.
But let's go to Stacy real quick. Stace, you're on
with Nick Rocco. You have a question about the the
doc and you know what, this part was interesting to
me too.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
In the documentary, we.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Found out that Karen immediately tried to administer CPR to
John's lifeless body and then what else?
Speaker 6 (13:48):
So before she tried to put CPR on him, First
of all, good morning everyone, Good morning, Nick, Good morning.
Second of she mentioned in the video in the program
that she pulled a piece of glass out of his
(14:08):
nose and he started bleeding. So my thing is, if
he got beat up by those guys, why did she
admit out of her own mouth that she pulled glass
out of his nose and blood ran down his nose.
That's what she said out of her mouth. So that
leads me to believe that, yeah, he got hit with
(14:32):
the car and basically she hit him in the head
and knocked him out.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Oh oh, Stacy, all right, Wow, that's a whole news theory.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I assuming she me, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Go ahead, and let me just say this. If John
o'keief got struck by a vehicle at twelve thirty in
the morning and laid outside in the cold for six
and a half hours until Karen Reid found him, when
she took that piece of glass out of his nose,
he would not have been bleeding out of that cut
because he would have already been passed away at that
point and he wouldn't have been actively bleeding. So when
(15:03):
he when they pulled that glass out of the nose
and blood came out, only can mean that he wasn't
laying there very long.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
And also, they don't make glass tail lights, just so
everybody knows. That's a plastic They're made out of plastic.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, And you know what put this man on
the stand. He's a car guy neck if you guys
knew him all right again, you know, I could do
this all day. Let's talk about the war room because
that was mentioned so many times in the documentary. The
war room is the room that Karen, Alan Jackson, you, Nettie,
all the guys, they all hang out. They go over
things for hours and days. Essentially the war room becomes
(15:37):
your life, Like that is where have you ever stepped
foot in the war Roomnick?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Have you ever been in there?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I know I haven't been there. That's kind of where
they do their thing, all their business.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, I'm asking because we have to get to the
bottom of what Alan Jackson's workout routine is, Like are
they working out in there while while they're plotting and
planning on how they're going to get Karen read off
of murder?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Like, what is that man doing to stay in shape?
I need answers?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure wherever this staying
has a has a pretty good gym.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Like I just picture Jackson just doing bicep curls and
he's like, Karen, tell me at twelve thirty six, who
did you call?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Because I mean, damn, I mean, have you ever seen
how big those binders?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Though?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
You're like, you know what, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Okay, the boxes, the binders, He's just curling them in there,
all right? Nick?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I know.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Also big in the news was that you you guys
as you're part of the team. But Karen's legal team
added a alternate jurr from trial one to the team
I saw a lot of back and forth about that.
I thought it was incredibly smart because now you have
somebody who got to watch the entire thing from that
viewpoint and can kind of lend.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
A little bit of insight. What what, what if anything?
Can you tell us about that edition?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, so she was on the jury, you could you
could definitely tell you know, I'm not speaking for her.
I think it's pretty clear now that she was a
not guilty vote. But it just happened to be that
her and and the two other random alternates were very
disgusted with what was going on in this case. You
could tell by their face reactions throughout the whole throughout
(17:22):
the whole trial, and it was those three that specifically
got taken off to be alternates. Now I'm not saying
it was rigged, but it was just a very big coincidence,
just like everything else in this case, that those three
got taken off. But but I think this is just
my opinion. I think she's going to be a great
help with jerry selection. I don't see her really arguing
(17:42):
much in court, but I think she's gonna have a
lot of insight as to how the Jerry's thinking and
what they're feeling and you know, maybe who to go
with on the jury. But I just can't see her
arguing anything much in court because don't forget, you know,
live little still there as well, and we saw from
the last trial she didn't really argue much. So I
(18:04):
think we're gonna see, you know, Alessi, Yanetti and Jackson
rarely hammering this stuff home this time, and I think,
you know it's gonna be it's gonna be a battle.
I don't see her being found guilty. I unfortunately think
it's it's probably gonna be another mistrial, well hopefully in acquittal.
But if it's another mistrial, then you know, who knows
(18:25):
what the state is going to do if they try
to go for round three. Hopefully not because this is
just becoming this is just becoming absurd crazy again. You
just never know what to predict in the Karen Reid case.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I'm sorry, I don't get mad at me on time.
Can we find a jury that doesn't know a Karen Reid?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Can we find a jury that has not ever heard
a single thing about this?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I don't know if we can.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You don't you don't need to find a jury that
that has never heard anything. You just need to find
a jury that can be unbiased and listen to the facts.
But you know you're gonna have You're gonna have someone
from both sides who are trying to get on the jury.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So yep, all right. The question I always ask you
before I let you go. How are her spirits?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
She's doing good. I think she's, you know, gearing up
for a trial too. They're in full game mode now
and only time will tell to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
All right, Nick, appreciate you, as always did Karen Reid
hit John O'Keefe with her car at thirty four Fair
of View.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Never happened.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Thank you, Appreciate you. I know we're running out time.
Hurry up quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I can't go through a third one.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I can't do it. I'm stressed out. I'm stressed out.
If you missed any of that
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It'll be up on the pod down the free iHeartRadio
appstarch a shlwleague more than
Dashly and the jam In Morning Show with DJ fourn
It's such a good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Bustin's number one for hip hop jamm In ninety four
or five. Hi, everybody, Good morning Sashley and the jam
In Morning Show.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I think that I have always made it very very
clear whenever we talk Karen Reid that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
There are two sides to this.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And if you're somebody who watched the recent documentary Body
in the Snow on Max, I think you that documentary
does a very very good job of painting the picture
that there are two very very stark different sides to this,
and there will continue to be as we gear up
for trial number two. We are consistently joined by Nick Rocco,
(00:47):
and I know Nick can attest to this, but anytime
we have Nick on, I say in the beginning of
the call six one seven nine three one one nine
four five, if you are somebody that thinks differently than Nick,
you are more than welcome to call.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Nick is more than welcome to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Uh. We were joined about a week or so ago
with Jackie Dougal. She came on the show and she,
you know, kind of talked about her side of things.
We listened, and again that is why this, to me
is always going to be such a salacious hot case
that people want to hear all the new, latest updates too,
(01:22):
because there are such massively different opinions on.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It, and let's just say, people are enthusiastic on both sides,
both sides.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Really.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, all right, Nick is joining us, Nick, good morning,
welcome back.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
How's everyone doing?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It's funny chatting with you and then seeing you on
my screen in my bedroom not to be a croup.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh you were.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You were in the dock there at the very end,
the dock that everybody is talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yeah, that was that was interesting. We had a lot
of we had a lot of people who were supposed
to be in it, and I think due to the
outcome being a mistrial, the producer had to take a
different direction and include the other side because initially it
was more of a you know, a pro Karen readocumentary.
(02:11):
It was supposed to be all about her, her supporters
and so on. And then once the mistrial happened, I
believe they wanted to show more of a neutral side
because they didn't really have an answer from the court.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Wow, that's actually a really interesting information, because here's the thing.
There's a lot of people and I said this earlier,
that feel like that that documentary didn't do much for Karen.
And I thought that to be interesting because it certainly
seems like the cameras were with her a lot more
than anybody else. So I thought to myself, this must
be something that her and her team thought would be
a good thing for her. But most of the people
(02:46):
that I chat with are like, I don't know, she
didn't come across very likable in that documentary. I'm sure
you've had somebody say that to you. When they do,
how do you answer that?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I mean, personally, I don't think it affected one way
or another. I don't think anything at this point is
going to change the non guilty or guilty minds of people.
And if anything, this this documentary that was aired is
you know, viewed by Massachusetts residents, but it's obviously across
the whole United States. But from what I know with
(03:19):
this documentary, I mean, for example, they came to my
hand salon. I spent about six hours filming with them
throughout the whole process, and I think, you know, maybe
two seconds of myself was in that documentary. They really
portrayed this as a pro carent read documentary where everyone
from her side was in it. They had they had
(03:41):
hours and hours of footage from the defense team. As
we know, Hank Brennan is now requesting all of this
footage to try to use against her. But you know
there was a falling out between the producer and in
the reads where it wasn't It wasn't what they were
almost promised of a pro carent read documentary. So again,
(04:03):
I don't think it's going to really change the minds
of people who are already dug into this, but it
is what it is. It's out there, and I'm sure
there are going to be more out there too.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think people would be shocked to know this about you,
because you've always been somebody that's very pro Karen Reid.
You haven't missed anything. You've always come on the show,
given us updates. You're in the courtroom, You're kind of
in the trenches with Karen. But when I don't really
want to go into it, I think Jackie had heard time.
We're talking to you now. But I will say, just
(04:32):
so everybody knows, the day that I had Jackie on
Nick text me and he said, Listen, you're going to
get some hate for this, just like I do when
I come on, but kind of insinuating to me that
no matter what, it's not fair how both sides kind
of treat each other. And I think people probably wouldn't
(04:53):
believe that you would say something like that, especially being
so pro Karen read. But you do understand that there
are people that have another opinion, and you're like, Okay,
that's your opinion.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I don't think you're right, but you all think we
can kind of live in the same space.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yeah, I think it's become the Karen Reid guilty versus
not guilty has kind of become Democrat versus Republicans. I mean,
it's it's it's kind of insane to be honest at
the end of the day, right, we all have our
own opinions on this case. Do I feel like, you know,
people should hate each other over this? Absolutely not. You
(05:30):
can see differently, But at the end of the day,
I'm willing to have a conversation with anybody. Doesn't mean
I'm going to hate you for what you think. I
would just like you to hear my side and hopefully
you know, change of mind. But like I said, there's
no changing anyone's mind at this point. But I would
say that, I mean, this is just an estimate, but
(05:51):
I'd say at least ninety five percent of Massachusetts believe
she's not guilty. It's a very select few that think
she is guilty. That's why, you know, not too many
people call into the station and want to say she's guilty.
It's just a very select skeew and it is what
it is.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well playing Devil's Advocate on that, I would. I would
I put on Jackie. We did an interview and.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I was.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I was getting messages that I couldn't even believe what
they said. I think people are afraid, Nick, if I'm
being really honest with you, I think people are afraid
to say.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Hey, I don't know, this doesn't really add up to me.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I you know, I saw the text message exchange between
John O'Keefe and Karen the Knight that.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He died, and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I something didn't seem right to me about the whatever
the case you'd be. I'm using that as an example,
but I do think people are I think it's more
acceptable right now to say I am on the free
Karen read side.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I don't know if you guys agree with me on that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I do now, especially when you compare it to like
the political stuff too, like if you say you're oppose
or whatever. The last couple of years has been really tough.
I feel like with this it's going down the same
exact path people are. They don't want to go against
it because they hate that they hit online.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
And to the point of when Nick is saying a
lot of people don't call in, I think they you know,
if you're not listening with open ends, you might think
we're very biased and lean to the Karen Reid side, right,
So they're like, why am I going to call the
station that's already pro Karen exactly. They're not going to
give me a fair shot. So I think that's why
a lot of people don't call.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It, when in reality, I think, you know, we've been
open to hearing all of it. It's just you know,
I and I this is a compliment to Nick.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Nick, you know your stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And you're in the courtroom, you're you're seeing the evidence,
you're you know, repeating what you're hearing in court, and
I think it intimidates people too, all right, So documentary
comes out, we're learning a lot more. I think one
thing Nick that stood out to me big time in
the documentary is how far John's body was from the
(07:49):
front door of the house. So I want to ask
you this because I'm looking at the maps and I'm
seeing where his body was, and I'm thinking, Okay, if
this was this elaborate set up inside the house, that's
a long way to drag a body all the way
out to the street. Did they ever bring that up
to you, because I feel like I hadn't really seen
the map of it as much as I did in
(08:10):
that dock, and I'm watching it, I'm like, dang, that
would be a long drag of a body all the
way out to the street.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
No, the front yard is really not as big as
if you go in person the front The front yard
really isn't as big as it seems in like a pitcher.
But I don't think the defence's theory is that they
dragged him out the front door. I believe it is that,
you know, this incident happened in the basement. He has
a bulkhead door, and they got he got taken out
(08:38):
the backyard and where the fence is the fence has
a gate which is basically directly right in front of
the flagpole. But also I wouldn't necessarily necessarily say dragged.
He could have been carried by two big men. So
I mean, put it this way, people move bodies from
from their vehicle into the middle of the ocean. So
(09:01):
it's not it's not really about the distance, it's about
how it happened. Yeah, because don't forget right, there was
a vehicle parked at at around three in the morning
exactly where John's body was found. The next morning, Lucky
Law and the plow driver testified that there was a
vehicle parked exactly at the flagpole early in the morning
(09:21):
where John's body was. So how did the person whoever
was driving that vehicle not see John there on the lawn.
We don't know how he got there, whether he was
you know, put put in the back of a car
and driven over there, or if he was if he
was brought outside from the garage. I mean, yeah, no
one really knows exactly what happened. It just the facts
(09:45):
and the evidence of how a tail light breaks does
not break into forty five pieces off someone's arm, So
how did that how did it break I mean, how
did John end up there with the injuries he has
when you look at John's injuries. Which another thing is
Garrett Wing is going to be one of the experts
for the defense team. If you don't know who he is,
(10:05):
you can YouTube him, you can look him up online.
He is one of the top canine police dog trainers
there is out there. This guy is going to explain
how a dog attacks, where they attack, and basically confirm
that those are dog bites on the arm. So it
just if John had different injuries, maybe it would make
more sense than Karen Reid hit him with the car.
(10:27):
But his injuries just don't match up to being struck
by a vehicle.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And that was brought up many times in the documentary.
From the neck down? Where are the injuries? Another thing
that stood out to me big time is, and I've
said this a million times, maybe Karen did do this,
but if she did, it was botched so bad by
so many different people that there's enough reasonable doubt there.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Nick this stood out to me so much.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
We got multiple people on the stand saying I heard
Karen say I hit him, I hit him, hit him,
I hit him. Not one of those people wrote it
in a report. How And I think at one point
Alan Jackson's like, somebody says that right there, it's done,
Like we're arresting her. She's telling us hit him, I
hit him. But yet nobody not ems not a firefighter, nobody,
nobody writes that down in the report. We found the victim,
(11:18):
the body was there, the woman that says she's the girlfriend,
says I hit him, I hit.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Him, but nobody writes it down. That's tough.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I mean, everyone wants to say it's an emission of guilt, right,
and she admitted to it. Yet she she apparently said
this right in front of a cop, and he didn't
arrest her, He didn't bring her down to the police station.
A question her on the spot, which makes me believe
it actually was a question and not an admission of
guilt of did I hit him? Could I have done this?
How did he end up here? Like this doesn't make sense?
(11:49):
And yeah, you're right, it wasn't in any report. That
that's a pretty big piece of evidence to get in
a report.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Stands out.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, I think I think one inch same thing too,
is Scorty Bellow, which was the state's medical examiner on
the stand, said that this is not consistent with what
they've seen to be as a vehicle pedestrian strike. So
you know what the state's not doing. They don't plan
on calling the state's medical examiner because they don't want
(12:19):
her to say that on the stand, and they also
don't want her to say that the manner of death
was undetermined because it doesn't help their case. The only
thing that they really have going for them is that
Karen Reid's tail light is broken. But this so much
reasonable doubt around the tail light that you really can't
even say that it was from hitting John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean there, Yeah, I will the reasonable debt.
I will stand with you on another thing that I
just hits. Really, I'm in the jury and I'm hearing
this and I'm like it, make it make sense to me.
The famous butt dials, the famous butt dials at all
hours of the night. We got one button. I'm like, cool,
(13:01):
I get it. But guys, we're talking three four five
butt dials. We're talking a one second butt dialed in
a twenty two second butt a just it it. It
plants reasonable doubt, and reasonable doubt is what's going to
be the most important thing going into this next trial
because there is so much of it. Regardless of where
you stand on this, I know we're running out of time,
(13:24):
but we have Stacy want to ask you a question,
and then I want to talk about the war room.
But let's go to Stacy real quick. Stace, you're on
with Nick Rocco. You have a question about the the
doc and you know what, this part was interesting to
me too.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
In the documentary, we.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Found out that Karen immediately tried to administer CPR to
John's lifeless body and then what else?
Speaker 6 (13:48):
So before she tried to put CPR on him, First
of all, good morning everyone, Good morning, Nick, Good morning.
Second of she mentioned in the video in the program
that she pulled a piece of glass out of his
(14:08):
nose and he started bleeding. So my thing is, if
he got beat up by those guys, why did she
admit out of her own mouth that she pulled glass
out of his nose and blood ran down his nose.
That's what she said out of her mouth. So that
leads me to believe that, yeah, he got hit with
(14:32):
the car and basically she hit him in the head
and knocked him out.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Oh oh, Stacy, all right, Wow, that's a whole news theory.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I assuming she me, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Go ahead, and let me just say this. If John
o'keief got struck by a vehicle at twelve thirty in
the morning and laid outside in the cold for six
and a half hours until Karen Reid found him, when
she took that piece of glass out of his nose,
he would not have been bleeding out of that cut
because he would have already been passed away at that
point and he wouldn't have been actively bleeding. So when
(15:03):
he when they pulled that glass out of the nose
and blood came out, only can mean that he wasn't
laying there very long.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
And also, they don't make glass tail lights, just so
everybody knows. That's a plastic They're made out of plastic.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, And you know what put this man on
the stand. He's a car guy neck if you guys
knew him all right again, you know, I could do
this all day. Let's talk about the war room because
that was mentioned so many times in the documentary. The
war room is the room that Karen, Alan Jackson, you, Nettie,
all the guys, they all hang out. They go over
things for hours and days. Essentially the war room becomes
(15:37):
your life, Like that is where have you ever stepped
foot in the war Roomnick?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Have you ever been in there?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I know I haven't been there. That's kind of where
they do their thing, all their business.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, I'm asking because we have to get to the
bottom of what Alan Jackson's workout routine is, Like are
they working out in there while while they're plotting and
planning on how they're going to get Karen read off
of murder?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Like, what is that man doing to stay in shape?
I need answers?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure wherever this staying
has a has a pretty good gym.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Like I just picture Jackson just doing bicep curls and
he's like, Karen, tell me at twelve thirty six, who
did you call?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Because I mean, damn, I mean, have you ever seen
how big those binders?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Though?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
You're like, you know what, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Okay, the boxes, the binders, He's just curling them in there,
all right? Nick?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I know.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Also big in the news was that you you guys
as you're part of the team. But Karen's legal team
added a alternate jurr from trial one to the team
I saw a lot of back and forth about that.
I thought it was incredibly smart because now you have
somebody who got to watch the entire thing from that
viewpoint and can kind of lend.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
A little bit of insight. What what, what if anything?
Can you tell us about that edition?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, so she was on the jury, you could you
could definitely tell you know, I'm not speaking for her.
I think it's pretty clear now that she was a
not guilty vote. But it just happened to be that
her and and the two other random alternates were very
disgusted with what was going on in this case. You
could tell by their face reactions throughout the whole throughout
(17:22):
the whole trial, and it was those three that specifically
got taken off to be alternates. Now I'm not saying
it was rigged, but it was just a very big coincidence,
just like everything else in this case, that those three
got taken off. But but I think this is just
my opinion. I think she's going to be a great
help with jerry selection. I don't see her really arguing
(17:42):
much in court, but I think she's gonna have a
lot of insight as to how the Jerry's thinking and
what they're feeling and you know, maybe who to go
with on the jury. But I just can't see her
arguing anything much in court because don't forget, you know,
live little still there as well, and we saw from
the last trial she didn't really argue much. So I
(18:04):
think we're gonna see, you know, Alessi, Yanetti and Jackson
rarely hammering this stuff home this time, and I think,
you know it's gonna be it's gonna be a battle.
I don't see her being found guilty. I unfortunately think
it's it's probably gonna be another mistrial, well hopefully in acquittal.
But if it's another mistrial, then you know, who knows
(18:25):
what the state is going to do if they try
to go for round three. Hopefully not because this is
just becoming this is just becoming absurd crazy again. You
just never know what to predict in the Karen Reid case.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I'm sorry, I don't get mad at me on time.
Can we find a jury that doesn't know a Karen Reid?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Can we find a jury that has not ever heard
a single thing about this?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I don't know if we can.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You don't you don't need to find a jury that
that has never heard anything. You just need to find
a jury that can be unbiased and listen to the facts.
But you know you're gonna have You're gonna have someone
from both sides who are trying to get on the jury.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So yep, all right. The question I always ask you
before I let you go. How are her spirits?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
She's doing good. I think she's, you know, gearing up
for a trial too. They're in full game mode now
and only time will tell to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
All right, Nick, appreciate you, as always did Karen Reid
hit John O'Keefe with her car at thirty four Fair
of View.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Never happened.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Thank you, Appreciate you. I know we're running out time.
Hurry up quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I can't go through a third one.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I can't do it. I'm stressed out. I'm stressed out.
If you missed any of that
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It'll be up on the pod down the free iHeartRadio
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