May 16, 2024 • 36 mins
Values-Based Recruitment and Adult Social Care (Part three)
By the Centre for Care and IMPACT
Host: Laura Griffith, Deputy Head of National Embedding, IMPACT
Guests:
- Paul Rooney- Professional Adviser, Northern Ireland Social Care Council
- Alison Upton- Learning and Development Manager at Scottish Social Services Council
- Andrew Bell- Programme Manager, WeCare Wales, Social Care Wales
- Jon Kerr- Head of Workforce Capacity, Skills for Care
This episode continues on the topic of ‘values-based recruitment’ in adult social care.
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Learn more about our research on the Centre for Care website here: https://centreforcare.ac.uk/
The CARE MATTERS Podcast is produced by Dan Williamson at the Centre for Care.
---Intro/outro music: Music: https://www.purple-planet.com is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to part
three of Care Matters podcastcollaboration with IMPACT the ESRC
and Health Foundation funded AdultSocial Care and the Mentation Centre.
We now continue our discussion on valuesbased recruitment with guests.
Paul Rooney, Professional Advisor at theNorthern Ireland Social Care Council.
Good afternoon. Alli Upton,
(00:23):
Learning and Development Managerat Scottish Social Services Council.
Hi, Laura.
Andrew Bell, Program Manager.
We CARE Wales and Social CareWales, Ireland
and Job Care, Head of WorkforceCapacity and Skills for Care.
But they are one of the biggest
workforces in the system,so we need to start calling them out.
(00:46):
We need to start calling thema social care workforce
because we know what a nurse workforce
looks like or a doctor or workforceor a social worker, police.
So the identity of this workforceneeds to be worked upon
and promoted across the system.
So you mentioned there,I mean, the really big challenge
(01:08):
that the size and complexityof the workforce
and the huge societal valuethat they bring,
but also that that the diversity of that.
And I wonder if there is a particulartension there between efforts
that they have been made to standardizeor centralize by virtue of various meeting
and qualifications, registrationsand so on, but also
(01:31):
and while still having flexibilityof the workforce.
Right.
From, you know, people who want to employRPA and less people who are part
of a much larger organization and a morewell recognized career pathway, perhaps.
And I thinkdoes anybody want to come in here?
But those particular sort of polarizingtensions, Ali,
(01:52):
I supposejust because it builds on what you shared?
Paul, Certainly our experience in Scotland
having a registered workforceacross social care.
Absolutely.
In a positive way raises profile.
It raises status,it gives us a statement of value
(02:13):
and a statement of of of professionalism
that is held by the individualthat is understood across organizations.
And and that to explainthat we are going through
and embarking on a future proofing
of the register in Scotland.
(02:33):
And it says particularlythis is why I wanted to come in to address
that that tension of holding status
and yet recognizing the needboth for the individual worker
but also for the people of Scotland,the need to have a flexible workforce.
So we are moving towardsa much more flexible register
(02:58):
and the qualityCommission's basis to that register.
So there is going to be an easieropportunity
for movement across working with Chilternsand working with adults
and also looking to
a more responsive
model of CPI that underpins that
(03:21):
registration and that CPO
will have a responsiveness to the needs.
The message about a learning opportunityand and signposted
learning, responding to the rolein which somebody
currently is,but also responding nationally.
If there is a change in policyor legislation
(03:43):
and and through
all of these developmentswithin the future proofing program
that the concern is to be responses,
to be flexiblewithout diminishing the status,
the responsibilityaround safeguarding and protection.
(04:07):
Also the responsibilityto support individual workers
learners in their career pathwaysand create
a bettersignposting of those opportunities.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Thank you.
And John, did youdo you want to come in here?
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, in terms of intensiveregistration in England, we don't have
(04:31):
a registered social care workforceexcept for nurses, social workers and all.
T So, you know, thereis, there isn't registration in place.
So but I think the pointI wanted to to a couple of things
I want to pick up in terms of, you know,there are a couple of bits of work
that the government are quite interestedin, such as the care workforce pathway.
We're currently developing the workforcestrategy for adult social care
(04:53):
in England as well.
So to, to, to, to go alongside the NHS.
One was published recentlyand so those kind of things at that
strategic level are all happening.
But I think I wanted to pick upon the point that Paul made about
the churn in the statsin terms of massive, massive issue.
But what we see from a workforcestatistics
we collect is actually a lot of actionsbetween providers within the sector.
(05:16):
So it's not necessarily losing peopleto other sectors that does happen,
but there's a lot of movementwithin and providers within the system.
And I think if we recruit peoplewith the right values
in the first place to those organizationsor the by connections that can help with.
The other thing I think is really, reallyimportant is the idea that we've got
(05:37):
an increase, an increasing demandfor social care workers going forward.
We projectedwe're going to need another 440,000
people working in social carein England by 2035.
So how do we find those people?
So you've got real people
that are moving aroundbetween existing providers
and the existing kind of pool of talentthat we've got.
But actually, how do we try to encourageand welcome new people
(05:59):
that haven't previously thoughtabout careers and social care into
the sets are actually,I think values based recruitment provides
us with an opportunity to thinkmore broadly about, well, you know,
you might not experience in sets,but you have transferable skills.
You have the core valuesthat would really fit within this set
so we can startlooking at other demographics,
looking at try to encourage more mento work in social care,
(06:19):
looking at trying to capitalizeon the kind of demographic bulge
of young people that are coming into theinto the workforce
over the next couple of years.
And how do we have to encourage
more of the more young peopleto think about careers and care
and focusing on values and transferable
sort of experienceand having a way of recruiting
(06:39):
that takes that into account,unaware of articulate and jobs
that that makes that clear
can be a way that we can maybetry and meet some of those challenges
and increase the pool of talentrather than just of the merry
go round of people that are moving forwardprovide That's
another bit of actually increasingthe capacity overall.
It's a really interesting pointyou make there about Jane.
(07:01):
And I didn't knowand the data particularly on that
we find that people move around
between providersand also thinking about untapped
workforces as well, recruitingdifferent types of people who might
he might not have consideredcare work before.
Do you feel, Andrew, that that that'sperhaps a way of meeting
some of these challenges in
(07:24):
looking at the workforces as a whole?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know,I think that's the key thing with it
with this when we're thinking about
building up our capacity, building upour workforce is how
how are we connecting with people,how we reaching people
and how do we get to these hardto reach groups or whatever the groups
that we're trying to kind of get to?
(07:45):
And I think what we've seen,and it's probably true across
all our nations, is the way peoplesearch for jobs has changed dramatically.
People's expectation has shiftedsignificantly.
People won't wait a week for a replyfrom an application
or for attendees or notificationif they don't get it now.
Instead, it's
that kind of society that we're in nowwhere everything is much faster paced.
(08:07):
And I think it's really importantwhen when we think about the recruitment
and obviously in putting forwardthe values based route as being the model
is then how you how you set thatwithin the context of our environment
that we're in now.
And we re doing some studies around,working around
with different generation, GenerationZ, their demands and needs the different
because it does change.
And I think it's important to,to not only make the advert
(08:31):
look very clear and present both settledand all of those things, but actually then
how do you get the rightpairs of eyes on it?
How do you get to the people?What tools do you use?
What matters do you incorporate?
How do you do it? You know,and what is a very digital age.
But there's still a lot of peoplewho don't necessarily connect
with those formats as well.
So and
that in itself creates a lot of challenge,but that's the supplementary elements.
(08:53):
I think that needs to build into valuesbased recruitment
to really give it an opportunityto really flourish as it needs to.
And have you had
any successes in changing that?
M That processto make sure the right eyes are on it?
The I think the way that we tryand work it through, I mean,
I work within social care Waleswhich is part of we with has we have is
(09:15):
so the program campaign around here
and the way that we try and supportemployers to think through is
who you're trying to target,
who you're trying to reachand then going to where they are.
So I'm no expert in social media,but you know, things like Snapchat, things
like TechEd, all of thoseand those elements
that younger audiences will connect with,whether that's
who you're trying to reachand that's the place to go.
(09:36):
If you're trying to reachcertain demographics, then there's certain
models or approaches are more effective.
If you're going to areas thathave poor Internet, well busses, train
station platforms, billboards, you know,there's other ways to kind of connect.
Look at the messages out there.
And so it's it's about understandingwho you're trying to get to.
And that's what we're finding isthe learning is about understanding that
(09:58):
and then seeing what is the best fitfor that particular audience group.
Thank you.
And pull thinking about, say,in that audience,
how do you know you're reachingwho you need to reach
and thinking about thatthe workforce as a whole, thinking about
and unleashing this untapped potential,perhaps?
(10:20):
Well, I mean, from from experience,
we know within our Register ofof Social Care staff,
we have a recommitment of working well.
They are very hungryfor learning and development.
So there is a commitment.
People who come in to social care,as I said earlier, often have an ongoing
altruism around why they're thereand why they choose a career.
(10:43):
We we we have a very challenging time
because I suppose, as John outlined,we have an increased need
for for social care
services and individual supports.
We are competing with all of the industry
for a diminishing workforce within the UK.
(11:05):
And I suppose there's a real responsibility on organizations understanding
how they become an employer of choice.
So what does that look likefor an organization?
So really it is about looking at obviouslytrying to recruit
the right people in a value based way.
(11:26):
It's seeing it as a journeyis as opposed to a recruitment campaign.
It's about investing in the workforcein those individuals careers,
offering good induction supervision,all those clear career pathways,
articulating what you can receivewhen you go into a social care
organization and really trying to offergood working conditions.
(11:49):
And that's,
I think there's been a bit of a changearound, I suppose, in some areas from
from some of the organizationsthat I've worked alongside around
being a bit more flexibleand agile around the type of people.
You know, a few years ago you had thesethese are the shifts you have to do.
There was no agility or flexibilitiesor organizations have had to learn
(12:09):
to be more flexiblein terms of and, you know, the type of
vacanciesor opportunities that may be around.
And I think understandingyour workforce is really, really critical
because if you only start to engage
with your workforce at exit interviews,you really have a problem.
So you really should be developingthat relationship with your workforce
(12:32):
the whole way through their journeyin your organization.
Because we know, as John said, some peoplemay before four for 50 extra an R
and there's there's there's a rationalebehind that because people's tenancies
are often you know, they're having tomaybe do 60, 70 hours a week
to earn a reasonable living wage,then that's not right.
And we have to find ways ofof improving that
(12:55):
because how do you expect peopleto continue to learn and develop
and train and complete
qualificationswhen they're working 60, 70 hours a week?
It's not possible.
This workforce needs careand it needs to be respected.
And all those things are really importantas an organization.
And we need, I think, to do a lot more
(13:17):
unpacking with what keeps people in jobs.
And it's not rocket science.
It's about feeling valued,feeling part of an organization, feeling
that they're workingin a meaningful environment
where there are really good outcomesand that that that
the policies within organizationsare are supportive of that
acknowledgment and recognition
(13:39):
are really,really important for this workforce.
So there's a lots of simple thingsthat some organizations do really well
and therefore keepand retain their staff better.
So there is, you know, people don't movearound the system for no reason.
So we need to do a lot more workabout understanding why
and how you can start to helporganizations put in place things that
(14:02):
that are very, very much supportive of, of
of maintaining morale and good support.
Lots of people leavesocial care rules because of
of their perception of management orleadership, poor management or leadership
or or not being treated well or or notbeing supported and trained properly.
(14:22):
And we know that retention is a big issue.
So people leave social carevery fast within six months in the year
because they're
working in really complex areasand they haven't got the right supports
to develop themselves and to builda capability and capacity and resilience.
So there's reasonswhy people move around and leave.
So if I were
(14:43):
a large providerand I was convinced by what you said,
how would I in basic termsbegin to get to know my workforce better?
So have the,you know, before the exit interview,
what are the opportunities to get to know
what work is value and what's going on?
What's going on with my workforcecommunication?
(15:03):
I think Laura, you know,being being able to connect with your
with your staffand really good example for me over COVID
whenever, you know, it was a very scarytime for particularly community
staff and domiciliary care staff.
And they reported back during that timethat they had more contact
with their managers and their supervisorsover COVID than they had prior to COVID.
(15:28):
And that made the differencein terms of holding people,
being able to go out in really challengingenvironments.
Lots of people didn't want careor didn't want people in their homes.
So I think communication, communication,communication and taking the information
that is given and looking at how you cancollectively make things better.
(15:49):
And it's not all about money
either, you know, Sosome of these things are not about money.
And with that, be mirroredby your experience, Ellie, That.
Yes. And I just want to give an examplein in
Scotland,the place you were supporting the
support already,the Fair Work and Social care
agenda and program on one of the
(16:12):
workstreams within that is aroundEffective
Voices is building on what you'resharing around around communication.
Paul But bringing in a set of standardsaround effective voice and currently we're
we're testing those with a
as a spectrum of organizationsacross social care.
So it's looking at the opportunitiesthat are there for staff
(16:36):
to have that voice.
Yes, be it through supervision,but also through team discussions.
What are their opportunity
to support innovation and improvementwithin their service up to a
more collective voice across
organizations?
And and I suppose I wanted to share that.
(16:59):
But also picking up on the
the focus that the right concern
we have all sharedabout existing workforce.
And I supposeI wanted to draw particular attention
to what's been one of the
implications of of, of the, the,
(17:21):
the straitened rates of attritionfrom from the sector is that
we've had evidence in Scotland
of accelerated progressioninto senior roles within social care.
And so a particular concern and attentionneeding
to be given to thosewithin those those senior roles
(17:42):
who who then you turn around,who then become involved and responsible
for recruitment, for supporting
new staff, for induction, etc., etc..
So looking at the leadershipand wellbeing needs of seniors,
senior staffhas become a particular focus in our work.
(18:02):
And and then theI suppose the other area of
specific area of recruitment
and focus groups we've not touched onas yet is around international recruitment
and it's another aspect of our workhas been working
in collaborationwith the Refugee Council in Scotland
(18:22):
to support recruitmentand wellbeing of refugees
and asylum seekers engaged in social care.
So but that that the issue of effect
of voice support to seniors
building that capacity and wellbeing
(18:42):
in the the point in the workforcethat at the moment seems to be
almost the buttress holding that pressure
from what's been a contracted.
I mean the an extended recruitment crisis.
So see looking and in a really long termway about the issue of retention.
(19:04):
So looking at how you really getpromotion, where the pressure points are,
you know, slowly and as the last pointsabout and the diversity of the workforce
and the internationalnature of it as well.
John.
Well, yeah, I mean, just
picking up a couple of those points,I think can we
(19:24):
we did a piece of worka few years ago called Secrets of Success,
which was a bit of analysisof organizations with low turnover rates
and what characteristicsthey had in comparison to those sets.
And I think it wasn't a surprisenecessarily that the positive workplace
culture and values came very came throughvery strongly in that piece of work,
(19:45):
you know, So, you know, there wasa correlation between the the, the,
you know, the positivity of the Robinsonorganization and keeping staff.
I mean, you know, there are thosethere's there's other analysis
we've done with linkswhich links it to more
kind of things you might expectwas this five factors that we can see
(20:06):
the influence
and retention through our workforcedataset that we collect.
So those things like pay is a significantone and you know, the ability to work
full time hours, availability,full time hours,
0 hours contracts,whether or not they're whether or not
they're offered and whether peoplehave preexisting qualification.
(20:27):
And do people have accessto a land development pathway
when they when there was this?
And they seem to be the fundamental things
and they're the big picture things,but actually underneath, I think it's
what we've always as an organization,do you have a post of workplace culture
and that that influences all those,all those other things?
Often
I think international recruitmentand interest in what
(20:48):
and obviously that's been
there's been a massive influxof international recruits
in certain partsof the workforce in England.
And I'm sure the
the other nations as wellover the last years and recent changes to
visa regulationswill have an impact on that.
And I think it'll be interestingto see what happens in terms of that.
But underneath that,
we support those individuals in a valuebased way as well to ensure that they're,
(21:11):
you know, safeguardedand are not open to abuse
and have the right support structuresin place to to
to be able to
work in this, you know, come into the setto be supported and set to and
and be able to be the bestto compete with that once it's
I don't know flipping aboutbut but you know
(21:32):
there's
I think culture is at the rootof everything.
Organizations with a good workplaceculture will do all these things
as a result of that and that positiveworkplace culture and work.
And those exist to try
and find that kind of
intangible thing, if you like, isis quite, quite interesting. But
(21:56):
it's lost my thread a little bit.
But I think it's
it's really important to understandthe impact of those factors on,
you know, the, you know, the, the,the workforce and the way the workforce,
you know, stays or leaves. You.
(22:17):
And I think it's a really important point.
The the event is that there arethere's these various means
by which we can improvepolice based recruitment and retention.
But that underpinning it is this moresupportive culture in the workplace.
So I guess and thinkingabout really practical details
now, thinking of the range of resources,toolkits,
(22:40):
ideas, case studies, exemplarsthat they might be out there
and you know, if an organization or
even an individual and recruiting a peer
wants to adopt a different approach,where might be some of the places
you might direct them,what sort of resources and ideas?
Andrew
(23:02):
Yeah, we've
we've developed a lot of kind of casestudies and stories
which have values at the heart of it.
So we openly activelyshare them to for all to utilize.
And we,we link with employers here in Wales
where they can use those videosas part of their recruitment journey
to help kind of articulatewhat the different roles are about
(23:23):
a particular resourcethat we've we've seen some real positive
kind of outcomes from thisand a good question of care,
which is the is a it's a
it's a joint ventureacross all the nations, actually,
because it's development,but it's a really good tool
to help people reflect on your valuesbecause actually when you when you want,
you need the right peopleto come to your door.
(23:44):
So you need to present the right offer,which is the opposite.
But actually helping people themselves see
their valuesbase is part of that as well as next.
That'skind of the part of the fix or the joint.
And I think tools like a question of careI think are really good at doing that
because they tease out and kind of helppeople think, well,
what would I do in the situation?
And then it really cleverly helpsyou understand your choices and supports
(24:06):
you and your thinking in regardsto where that journey goes.
So I think there's those thatthey've been really, really well received.
And we've know that
when linking with schools and colleges,because I think we also try to think
of the next generation of a workforceas well, not just firefighting the issues
we have right now,we need to think actually
we've got another cohort, peoplecoming out into the into the arena
(24:26):
or into the working marketand how connecting with them and tools
like that have been really effectiveto help them sort of see what it's like,
I guess almost, and reflecton their choices and different scenarios.
It sounds like it really fantasticrange of resources.
Ali Yes, I just want to echo Andrew
equally at the value question,a question of care.
(24:49):
It continues to grow.
It's it's
it's it's usage,which we we report on every month.
It's it never it never dips.
And we host it within our careers
websites, a career in care.
And on that website for individuals,
(25:11):
it's I suppose, a levelbeyond a question of care.
We've we've created as a set of pre
employment resources introductionsinto different aspects
of working and care very muchbased on on visual, on 360 video etc.
just toto give as much of that impression.
(25:33):
This can happen.
It is three steps removed,but those equally are resources
and we know employers themselves use them.
I think also
that for that pre-employment stage,we've created a ten steps guide.
We've worked with with employability providers, work coaches, training providers to
(25:55):
create, I suppose, a
signposting to resources for thatvery early conversation that it might be
it might be a happeningwithin the school or careers advisor,
it might be through a jobcentreor a work coach
and that that an individual might haveso that those people
(26:15):
who are in those places of conversationwith individuals,
they have to hand the materialthat that's relevant for them.
And, and then for for employers,
we have
we have co-produced a range of guideworking with refugees and asylum seekers,
etc., and continue to do that in response
(26:36):
to any particular hard to reach group
and what will be of value for employersin terms of of just
Henson tips as it as it works.
Alongsidethat we have safer recruitment right
values right people guideso there's a set of resources
(26:57):
the careers website is is where you finda route into all of those other resources.
And it'sinteresting that you've both mentioned
and looking at schools and collegesand building awareness
very much inin their younger generation as well. John
Yeah, I was just going to alsolook question care
(27:18):
is, is something that we findit's been very popular resource
and can be applied was you know, peoplewho are close to the labor market
but also can be applied with,
you know, young people in schoolsand college as well.
And then it's gotthat kind of flexibility.
We're also working
with a similar situation or judgment
to a curious about care,
(27:40):
which is kind of been developedat the moment, which we've we're
kind of involved in developing that,which is really interesting.
It's a bit more detailed.
And we also have,I think, our careers website,
which is the kind of the place where whatthat stuff sits on a lot of our resources
about what careers in care areand what they like
for for for potential recruits,particularly young people.
(28:03):
But also this there's resource on theirfor careers advisors, teachers,
those kinds of things.
So that that's one resource we've got.
We also have we launched the
values based
recruitment toolkit this year,which is a range of resources
across the different aspectsof recruitment, retention,
work linked to those based recruitment.
We run more detailed
(28:26):
programs about valuesbased recruitment, retention,
including kind of interviewing techniquesand that kind of stuff, which, which,
which, which we deliver.
We also deliver some of about value
conversations, which looks at valuesbased conversations that we have
and in terms of supervisionand and that kind of thing as well.
And we also have a programwhich we run with integrated care systems
(28:50):
in England called and Valuable People,which includes values based recruitment.
Within that as well as thingslike workforce planning, using data
and and various other aspectsaround recruitment, retention,
which can of systems of use tosort of work with providers within there
and various other bits and bobs as well.
They're the onesthat kind of springs to mind.
(29:12):
But you know, we have a lot of toolsand resources that employers can use to,
you know, embed that kind of stuffwhich, which sits on the other skills
care website or that we can,we can deliver for providers as well.
I mean a fantastic range of resources
that you will mentionswhich should cover many aspects from that.
(29:32):
So the sort of technicaland regulatory pitches as well that
values based recruitment,but also explaining much more
about the diverse rolesthat there are in care across the boards.
And I think that that's beena really interesting insight
through the whole of the podcastand from the nitty gritty of the how to
(29:54):
and right upto how this care and get valued in society
as a whole and the parity of esteemthat care works should be held in.
And so I wanted to thank you allfor your contributions today.
And honestly,I ask if there's one thing that
you wanted to really articulateabout values based recruitment
(30:17):
or a values based approach more generally,and what would that be?
What would it be important for
for people to know about their approachthat you might not heard
anything about it beforeor he might be nervous in its application?
Actually.
Yeah.
I think it's useful forI mean, we were kind of a promotion
(30:39):
and have done our ownworking in social care
and what that looks likeand I think, you know, promoting
this workforce in termsof what it actually brings to society
and what it providesis, is, is an ongoing piece of work.
And and wewe know that many people will not be able
to live in the local communitywith this workforce.
(31:01):
So I think I think I would encourageothers to to to get on our websites.
All of us here are around the table todayhave really
extensive resources and informationand promotional materials of
of giving peoplea real feel of what social care is.
If you're interestedin a career in social care.
(31:23):
And it is an amazing careerand it is so diverse,
you can work acrossso many different sectors.
So I think
we we need to encourage people to explore
what social care is and what it doesand and
and make sure our resources are availablefor people are accessible.
(31:43):
I mean, we have really accessibleresources for person assistance out there,
although we don't regulate them,but we know that they need support
and they need good informationaround their own talent development.
So it's about having free resourcesthat people can access
to improve their their working day
and on their skills.
(32:06):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Angie.
I think,
simply put,I guess it really can make a difference.
I think, you know,
I think that's really the key valueswhich really can make a difference.
But and what it can do as us
almost as a self are,but actually makes you reflective.
So the whole purpose of how it worksis how it fits
(32:28):
for the wider organizations understanding.
And I think it can beginit can be actually quite a nice lever
to help begin exploring all of those otherkey parts of the wider whole
to sort of really kind
of look at it in a in a true holistic way.
But absolutely, it's aboutand it will, you know, it can be support
finding the right people that we needin our sector.
(32:49):
Fantastic. John
Yeah,I think if I was to have a key message,
I think it's the values based recruitment,retention, you have to look at it
as a as a holistic exercise. And
in order to do it and all the facts is wayand in order to find,
you know, the right people with the rightvalues for that for your organization,
(33:12):
it's important that you look upall of your processes, start
fresh and think about, you know,all these consistent with our values
as an organization.
If we can do thatand if we can, you know, live in a
live our values through the way
that we deliver care,then that's only going to be helpful.
Positive impacts on not only our workforceand our organization,
(33:32):
but I feel that the care that we deliverto the people we support.
And I think, you know,this is a key to indeed
able to do that more effectively.
Absolutely.
So getting it right, right from the verybeginning to the very finish.
Fantastic. And Ali.
Yes. And I would,
of course, echoall that that the three of you just said.
(33:54):
How did you come in last on this?
It's a bit hard, but there's somethingand even if you just take the keywords,
value people, relationship, conversation,
the point of recruitment is is one point
in a whole life story of of our
as human beings engaging in care
(34:17):
and in relationshipwith people who provide support and care.
So if
if we can think of
how we improve that conversation
about care and about valuing people
and yes, if we're thinking about it
for recruitment, let's let's expandthat thinking in that experience
(34:44):
to other placesof more societal conversation
about the value of careand the value of people,
and repositioning that slightlyfrom where it sits at the moment.
And what a fantastic point.
And and I very much encourageeverybody listening to
to take up the opportunity to lookat some of the resources, case studies
(35:07):
and approaches that have been mentionedthroughout the podcast.
And in addition to this and on the impactswebsite and we've just released
and a whole slew of resourcesabout values based recruitment.
So the findings from from the networkthat was run
and some video explainers about whatthere is values based recruitment
(35:28):
and then looking at and understandinghow that works in practice,
right from understanding the organization.
See some tips on advertising the roleshortlisting and interview
and after the interview,
very much picking up on the rest of itwhere the relationship starts.
You know,this is just the beginning of things here.
And so I want to thank you all very muchfor your contributions today.
(35:50):
And and and it's been a pleasure listeningto all your experiences and insights.
Thank you very much.
Welcome to part
three of Care Matters podcastcollaboration with IMPACT the ESRC
and Health Foundation funded AdultSocial Care and the Mentation Centre.
We now continue our discussion on valuesbased recruitment with guests.
Paul Rooney, Professional Advisor at theNorthern Ireland Social Care Council.
Good afternoon. Alli Upton,
(00:23):
Learning and Development Managerat Scottish Social Services Council.
Hi, Laura.
Andrew Bell, Program Manager.
We CARE Wales and Social CareWales, Ireland
and Job Care, Head of WorkforceCapacity and Skills for Care.
But they are one of the biggest
workforces in the system,so we need to start calling them out.
(00:46):
We need to start calling thema social care workforce
because we know what a nurse workforce
looks like or a doctor or workforceor a social worker, police.
So the identity of this workforceneeds to be worked upon
and promoted across the system.
So you mentioned there,I mean, the really big challenge
(01:08):
that the size and complexityof the workforce
and the huge societal valuethat they bring,
but also that that the diversity of that.
And I wonder if there is a particulartension there between efforts
that they have been made to standardizeor centralize by virtue of various meeting
and qualifications, registrationsand so on, but also
(01:31):
and while still having flexibilityof the workforce.
Right.
From, you know, people who want to employRPA and less people who are part
of a much larger organization and a morewell recognized career pathway, perhaps.
And I thinkdoes anybody want to come in here?
But those particular sort of polarizingtensions, Ali,
(01:52):
I supposejust because it builds on what you shared?
Paul, Certainly our experience in Scotland
having a registered workforceacross social care.
Absolutely.
In a positive way raises profile.
It raises status,it gives us a statement of value
(02:13):
and a statement of of of professionalism
that is held by the individualthat is understood across organizations.
And and that to explainthat we are going through
and embarking on a future proofing
of the register in Scotland.
(02:33):
And it says particularlythis is why I wanted to come in to address
that that tension of holding status
and yet recognizing the needboth for the individual worker
but also for the people of Scotland,the need to have a flexible workforce.
So we are moving towardsa much more flexible register
(02:58):
and the qualityCommission's basis to that register.
So there is going to be an easieropportunity
for movement across working with Chilternsand working with adults
and also looking to
a more responsive
model of CPI that underpins that
(03:21):
registration and that CPO
will have a responsiveness to the needs.
The message about a learning opportunityand and signposted
learning, responding to the rolein which somebody
currently is,but also responding nationally.
If there is a change in policyor legislation
(03:43):
and and through
all of these developmentswithin the future proofing program
that the concern is to be responses,
to be flexiblewithout diminishing the status,
the responsibilityaround safeguarding and protection.
(04:07):
Also the responsibilityto support individual workers
learners in their career pathwaysand create
a bettersignposting of those opportunities.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Thank you.
And John, did youdo you want to come in here?
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, in terms of intensiveregistration in England, we don't have
(04:31):
a registered social care workforceexcept for nurses, social workers and all.
T So, you know, thereis, there isn't registration in place.
So but I think the pointI wanted to to a couple of things
I want to pick up in terms of, you know,there are a couple of bits of work
that the government are quite interestedin, such as the care workforce pathway.
We're currently developing the workforcestrategy for adult social care
(04:53):
in England as well.
So to, to, to, to go alongside the NHS.
One was published recentlyand so those kind of things at that
strategic level are all happening.
But I think I wanted to pick upon the point that Paul made about
the churn in the statsin terms of massive, massive issue.
But what we see from a workforcestatistics
we collect is actually a lot of actionsbetween providers within the sector.
(05:16):
So it's not necessarily losing peopleto other sectors that does happen,
but there's a lot of movementwithin and providers within the system.
And I think if we recruit peoplewith the right values
in the first place to those organizationsor the by connections that can help with.
The other thing I think is really, reallyimportant is the idea that we've got
(05:37):
an increase, an increasing demandfor social care workers going forward.
We projectedwe're going to need another 440,000
people working in social carein England by 2035.
So how do we find those people?
So you've got real people
that are moving aroundbetween existing providers
and the existing kind of pool of talentthat we've got.
But actually, how do we try to encourageand welcome new people
(05:59):
that haven't previously thoughtabout careers and social care into
the sets are actually,I think values based recruitment provides
us with an opportunity to thinkmore broadly about, well, you know,
you might not experience in sets,but you have transferable skills.
You have the core valuesthat would really fit within this set
so we can startlooking at other demographics,
looking at try to encourage more mento work in social care,
(06:19):
looking at trying to capitalizeon the kind of demographic bulge
of young people that are coming into theinto the workforce
over the next couple of years.
And how do we have to encourage
more of the more young peopleto think about careers and care
and focusing on values and transferable
sort of experienceand having a way of recruiting
(06:39):
that takes that into account,unaware of articulate and jobs
that that makes that clear
can be a way that we can maybetry and meet some of those challenges
and increase the pool of talentrather than just of the merry
go round of people that are moving forwardprovide That's
another bit of actually increasingthe capacity overall.
It's a really interesting pointyou make there about Jane.
(07:01):
And I didn't knowand the data particularly on that
we find that people move around
between providersand also thinking about untapped
workforces as well, recruitingdifferent types of people who might
he might not have consideredcare work before.
Do you feel, Andrew, that that that'sperhaps a way of meeting
some of these challenges in
(07:24):
looking at the workforces as a whole?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know,I think that's the key thing with it
with this when we're thinking about
building up our capacity, building upour workforce is how
how are we connecting with people,how we reaching people
and how do we get to these hardto reach groups or whatever the groups
that we're trying to kind of get to?
(07:45):
And I think what we've seen,and it's probably true across
all our nations, is the way peoplesearch for jobs has changed dramatically.
People's expectation has shiftedsignificantly.
People won't wait a week for a replyfrom an application
or for attendees or notificationif they don't get it now.
Instead, it's
that kind of society that we're in nowwhere everything is much faster paced.
(08:07):
And I think it's really importantwhen when we think about the recruitment
and obviously in putting forwardthe values based route as being the model
is then how you how you set thatwithin the context of our environment
that we're in now.
And we re doing some studies around,working around
with different generation, GenerationZ, their demands and needs the different
because it does change.
And I think it's important to,to not only make the advert
(08:31):
look very clear and present both settledand all of those things, but actually then
how do you get the rightpairs of eyes on it?
How do you get to the people?What tools do you use?
What matters do you incorporate?
How do you do it? You know,and what is a very digital age.
But there's still a lot of peoplewho don't necessarily connect
with those formats as well.
So and
that in itself creates a lot of challenge,but that's the supplementary elements.
(08:53):
I think that needs to build into valuesbased recruitment
to really give it an opportunityto really flourish as it needs to.
And have you had
any successes in changing that?
M That processto make sure the right eyes are on it?
The I think the way that we tryand work it through, I mean,
I work within social care Waleswhich is part of we with has we have is
(09:15):
so the program campaign around here
and the way that we try and supportemployers to think through is
who you're trying to target,
who you're trying to reachand then going to where they are.
So I'm no expert in social media,but you know, things like Snapchat, things
like TechEd, all of thoseand those elements
that younger audiences will connect with,whether that's
who you're trying to reachand that's the place to go.
(09:36):
If you're trying to reachcertain demographics, then there's certain
models or approaches are more effective.
If you're going to areas thathave poor Internet, well busses, train
station platforms, billboards, you know,there's other ways to kind of connect.
Look at the messages out there.
And so it's it's about understandingwho you're trying to get to.
And that's what we're finding isthe learning is about understanding that
(09:58):
and then seeing what is the best fitfor that particular audience group.
Thank you.
And pull thinking about, say,in that audience,
how do you know you're reachingwho you need to reach
and thinking about thatthe workforce as a whole, thinking about
and unleashing this untapped potential,perhaps?
(10:20):
Well, I mean, from from experience,
we know within our Register ofof Social Care staff,
we have a recommitment of working well.
They are very hungryfor learning and development.
So there is a commitment.
People who come in to social care,as I said earlier, often have an ongoing
altruism around why they're thereand why they choose a career.
(10:43):
We we we have a very challenging time
because I suppose, as John outlined,we have an increased need
for for social care
services and individual supports.
We are competing with all of the industry
for a diminishing workforce within the UK.
(11:05):
And I suppose there's a real responsibility on organizations understanding
how they become an employer of choice.
So what does that look likefor an organization?
So really it is about looking at obviouslytrying to recruit
the right people in a value based way.
(11:26):
It's seeing it as a journeyis as opposed to a recruitment campaign.
It's about investing in the workforcein those individuals careers,
offering good induction supervision,all those clear career pathways,
articulating what you can receivewhen you go into a social care
organization and really trying to offergood working conditions.
(11:49):
And that's,
I think there's been a bit of a changearound, I suppose, in some areas from
from some of the organizationsthat I've worked alongside around
being a bit more flexibleand agile around the type of people.
You know, a few years ago you had thesethese are the shifts you have to do.
There was no agility or flexibilitiesor organizations have had to learn
(12:09):
to be more flexiblein terms of and, you know, the type of
vacanciesor opportunities that may be around.
And I think understandingyour workforce is really, really critical
because if you only start to engage
with your workforce at exit interviews,you really have a problem.
So you really should be developingthat relationship with your workforce
(12:32):
the whole way through their journeyin your organization.
Because we know, as John said, some peoplemay before four for 50 extra an R
and there's there's there's a rationalebehind that because people's tenancies
are often you know, they're having tomaybe do 60, 70 hours a week
to earn a reasonable living wage,then that's not right.
And we have to find ways ofof improving that
(12:55):
because how do you expect peopleto continue to learn and develop
and train and complete
qualificationswhen they're working 60, 70 hours a week?
It's not possible.
This workforce needs careand it needs to be respected.
And all those things are really importantas an organization.
And we need, I think, to do a lot more
(13:17):
unpacking with what keeps people in jobs.
And it's not rocket science.
It's about feeling valued,feeling part of an organization, feeling
that they're workingin a meaningful environment
where there are really good outcomesand that that that
the policies within organizationsare are supportive of that
acknowledgment and recognition
(13:39):
are really,really important for this workforce.
So there's a lots of simple thingsthat some organizations do really well
and therefore keepand retain their staff better.
So there is, you know, people don't movearound the system for no reason.
So we need to do a lot more workabout understanding why
and how you can start to helporganizations put in place things that
(14:02):
that are very, very much supportive of, of
of maintaining morale and good support.
Lots of people leavesocial care rules because of
of their perception of management orleadership, poor management or leadership
or or not being treated well or or notbeing supported and trained properly.
(14:22):
And we know that retention is a big issue.
So people leave social carevery fast within six months in the year
because they're
working in really complex areasand they haven't got the right supports
to develop themselves and to builda capability and capacity and resilience.
So there's reasonswhy people move around and leave.
So if I were
(14:43):
a large providerand I was convinced by what you said,
how would I in basic termsbegin to get to know my workforce better?
So have the,you know, before the exit interview,
what are the opportunities to get to know
what work is value and what's going on?
What's going on with my workforcecommunication?
(15:03):
I think Laura, you know,being being able to connect with your
with your staffand really good example for me over COVID
whenever, you know, it was a very scarytime for particularly community
staff and domiciliary care staff.
And they reported back during that timethat they had more contact
with their managers and their supervisorsover COVID than they had prior to COVID.
(15:28):
And that made the differencein terms of holding people,
being able to go out in really challengingenvironments.
Lots of people didn't want careor didn't want people in their homes.
So I think communication, communication,communication and taking the information
that is given and looking at how you cancollectively make things better.
(15:49):
And it's not all about money
either, you know, Sosome of these things are not about money.
And with that, be mirroredby your experience, Ellie, That.
Yes. And I just want to give an examplein in
Scotland,the place you were supporting the
support already,the Fair Work and Social care
agenda and program on one of the
(16:12):
workstreams within that is aroundEffective
Voices is building on what you'resharing around around communication.
Paul But bringing in a set of standardsaround effective voice and currently we're
we're testing those with a
as a spectrum of organizationsacross social care.
So it's looking at the opportunitiesthat are there for staff
(16:36):
to have that voice.
Yes, be it through supervision,but also through team discussions.
What are their opportunity
to support innovation and improvementwithin their service up to a
more collective voice across
organizations?
And and I suppose I wanted to share that.
(16:59):
But also picking up on the
the focus that the right concern
we have all sharedabout existing workforce.
And I supposeI wanted to draw particular attention
to what's been one of the
implications of of, of the, the,
(17:21):
the straitened rates of attritionfrom from the sector is that
we've had evidence in Scotland
of accelerated progressioninto senior roles within social care.
And so a particular concern and attentionneeding
to be given to thosewithin those those senior roles
(17:42):
who who then you turn around,who then become involved and responsible
for recruitment, for supporting
new staff, for induction, etc., etc..
So looking at the leadershipand wellbeing needs of seniors,
senior staffhas become a particular focus in our work.
(18:02):
And and then theI suppose the other area of
specific area of recruitment
and focus groups we've not touched onas yet is around international recruitment
and it's another aspect of our workhas been working
in collaborationwith the Refugee Council in Scotland
(18:22):
to support recruitmentand wellbeing of refugees
and asylum seekers engaged in social care.
So but that that the issue of effect
of voice support to seniors
building that capacity and wellbeing
(18:42):
in the the point in the workforcethat at the moment seems to be
almost the buttress holding that pressure
from what's been a contracted.
I mean the an extended recruitment crisis.
So see looking and in a really long termway about the issue of retention.
(19:04):
So looking at how you really getpromotion, where the pressure points are,
you know, slowly and as the last pointsabout and the diversity of the workforce
and the internationalnature of it as well.
John.
Well, yeah, I mean, just
picking up a couple of those points,I think can we
(19:24):
we did a piece of worka few years ago called Secrets of Success,
which was a bit of analysisof organizations with low turnover rates
and what characteristicsthey had in comparison to those sets.
And I think it wasn't a surprisenecessarily that the positive workplace
culture and values came very came throughvery strongly in that piece of work,
(19:45):
you know, So, you know, there wasa correlation between the the, the,
you know, the positivity of the Robinsonorganization and keeping staff.
I mean, you know, there are thosethere's there's other analysis
we've done with linkswhich links it to more
kind of things you might expectwas this five factors that we can see
(20:06):
the influence
and retention through our workforcedataset that we collect.
So those things like pay is a significantone and you know, the ability to work
full time hours, availability,full time hours,
0 hours contracts,whether or not they're whether or not
they're offered and whether peoplehave preexisting qualification.
(20:27):
And do people have accessto a land development pathway
when they when there was this?
And they seem to be the fundamental things
and they're the big picture things,but actually underneath, I think it's
what we've always as an organization,do you have a post of workplace culture
and that that influences all those,all those other things?
Often
I think international recruitmentand interest in what
(20:48):
and obviously that's been
there's been a massive influxof international recruits
in certain partsof the workforce in England.
And I'm sure the
the other nations as wellover the last years and recent changes to
visa regulationswill have an impact on that.
And I think it'll be interestingto see what happens in terms of that.
But underneath that,
we support those individuals in a valuebased way as well to ensure that they're,
(21:11):
you know, safeguardedand are not open to abuse
and have the right support structuresin place to to
to be able to
work in this, you know, come into the setto be supported and set to and
and be able to be the bestto compete with that once it's
I don't know flipping aboutbut but you know
(21:32):
there's
I think culture is at the rootof everything.
Organizations with a good workplaceculture will do all these things
as a result of that and that positiveworkplace culture and work.
And those exist to try
and find that kind of
intangible thing, if you like, isis quite, quite interesting. But
(21:56):
it's lost my thread a little bit.
But I think it's
it's really important to understandthe impact of those factors on,
you know, the, you know, the, the,the workforce and the way the workforce,
you know, stays or leaves. You.
(22:17):
And I think it's a really important point.
The the event is that there arethere's these various means
by which we can improvepolice based recruitment and retention.
But that underpinning it is this moresupportive culture in the workplace.
So I guess and thinkingabout really practical details
now, thinking of the range of resources,toolkits,
(22:40):
ideas, case studies, exemplarsthat they might be out there
and you know, if an organization or
even an individual and recruiting a peer
wants to adopt a different approach,where might be some of the places
you might direct them,what sort of resources and ideas?
Andrew
(23:02):
Yeah, we've
we've developed a lot of kind of casestudies and stories
which have values at the heart of it.
So we openly activelyshare them to for all to utilize.
And we,we link with employers here in Wales
where they can use those videosas part of their recruitment journey
to help kind of articulatewhat the different roles are about
(23:23):
a particular resourcethat we've we've seen some real positive
kind of outcomes from thisand a good question of care,
which is the is a it's a
it's a joint ventureacross all the nations, actually,
because it's development,but it's a really good tool
to help people reflect on your valuesbecause actually when you when you want,
you need the right peopleto come to your door.
(23:44):
So you need to present the right offer,which is the opposite.
But actually helping people themselves see
their valuesbase is part of that as well as next.
That'skind of the part of the fix or the joint.
And I think tools like a question of careI think are really good at doing that
because they tease out and kind of helppeople think, well,
what would I do in the situation?
And then it really cleverly helpsyou understand your choices and supports
(24:06):
you and your thinking in regardsto where that journey goes.
So I think there's those thatthey've been really, really well received.
And we've know that
when linking with schools and colleges,because I think we also try to think
of the next generation of a workforceas well, not just firefighting the issues
we have right now,we need to think actually
we've got another cohort, peoplecoming out into the into the arena
(24:26):
or into the working marketand how connecting with them and tools
like that have been really effectiveto help them sort of see what it's like,
I guess almost, and reflecton their choices and different scenarios.
It sounds like it really fantasticrange of resources.
Ali Yes, I just want to echo Andrew
equally at the value question,a question of care.
(24:49):
It continues to grow.
It's it's
it's it's usage,which we we report on every month.
It's it never it never dips.
And we host it within our careers
websites, a career in care.
And on that website for individuals,
(25:11):
it's I suppose, a levelbeyond a question of care.
We've we've created as a set of pre
employment resources introductionsinto different aspects
of working and care very muchbased on on visual, on 360 video etc.
just toto give as much of that impression.
(25:33):
This can happen.
It is three steps removed,but those equally are resources
and we know employers themselves use them.
I think also
that for that pre-employment stage,we've created a ten steps guide.
We've worked with with employability providers, work coaches, training providers to
(25:55):
create, I suppose, a
signposting to resources for thatvery early conversation that it might be
it might be a happeningwithin the school or careers advisor,
it might be through a jobcentreor a work coach
and that that an individual might haveso that those people
(26:15):
who are in those places of conversationwith individuals,
they have to hand the materialthat that's relevant for them.
And, and then for for employers,
we have
we have co-produced a range of guideworking with refugees and asylum seekers,
etc., and continue to do that in response
(26:36):
to any particular hard to reach group
and what will be of value for employersin terms of of just
Henson tips as it as it works.
Alongsidethat we have safer recruitment right
values right people guideso there's a set of resources
(26:57):
the careers website is is where you finda route into all of those other resources.
And it'sinteresting that you've both mentioned
and looking at schools and collegesand building awareness
very much inin their younger generation as well. John
Yeah, I was just going to alsolook question care
(27:18):
is, is something that we findit's been very popular resource
and can be applied was you know, peoplewho are close to the labor market
but also can be applied with,
you know, young people in schoolsand college as well.
And then it's gotthat kind of flexibility.
We're also working
with a similar situation or judgment
to a curious about care,
(27:40):
which is kind of been developedat the moment, which we've we're
kind of involved in developing that,which is really interesting.
It's a bit more detailed.
And we also have,I think, our careers website,
which is the kind of the place where whatthat stuff sits on a lot of our resources
about what careers in care areand what they like
for for for potential recruits,particularly young people.
(28:03):
But also this there's resource on theirfor careers advisors, teachers,
those kinds of things.
So that that's one resource we've got.
We also have we launched the
values based
recruitment toolkit this year,which is a range of resources
across the different aspectsof recruitment, retention,
work linked to those based recruitment.
We run more detailed
(28:26):
programs about valuesbased recruitment, retention,
including kind of interviewing techniquesand that kind of stuff, which, which,
which, which we deliver.
We also deliver some of about value
conversations, which looks at valuesbased conversations that we have
and in terms of supervisionand and that kind of thing as well.
And we also have a programwhich we run with integrated care systems
(28:50):
in England called and Valuable People,which includes values based recruitment.
Within that as well as thingslike workforce planning, using data
and and various other aspectsaround recruitment, retention,
which can of systems of use tosort of work with providers within there
and various other bits and bobs as well.
They're the onesthat kind of springs to mind.
(29:12):
But you know, we have a lot of toolsand resources that employers can use to,
you know, embed that kind of stuffwhich, which sits on the other skills
care website or that we can,we can deliver for providers as well.
I mean a fantastic range of resources
that you will mentionswhich should cover many aspects from that.
(29:32):
So the sort of technicaland regulatory pitches as well that
values based recruitment,but also explaining much more
about the diverse rolesthat there are in care across the boards.
And I think that that's beena really interesting insight
through the whole of the podcastand from the nitty gritty of the how to
(29:54):
and right upto how this care and get valued in society
as a whole and the parity of esteemthat care works should be held in.
And so I wanted to thank you allfor your contributions today.
And honestly,I ask if there's one thing that
you wanted to really articulateabout values based recruitment
(30:17):
or a values based approach more generally,and what would that be?
What would it be important for
for people to know about their approachthat you might not heard
anything about it beforeor he might be nervous in its application?
Actually.
Yeah.
I think it's useful forI mean, we were kind of a promotion
(30:39):
and have done our ownworking in social care
and what that looks likeand I think, you know, promoting
this workforce in termsof what it actually brings to society
and what it providesis, is, is an ongoing piece of work.
And and wewe know that many people will not be able
to live in the local communitywith this workforce.
(31:01):
So I think I think I would encourageothers to to to get on our websites.
All of us here are around the table todayhave really
extensive resources and informationand promotional materials of
of giving peoplea real feel of what social care is.
If you're interestedin a career in social care.
(31:23):
And it is an amazing careerand it is so diverse,
you can work acrossso many different sectors.
So I think
we we need to encourage people to explore
what social care is and what it doesand and
and make sure our resources are availablefor people are accessible.
(31:43):
I mean, we have really accessibleresources for person assistance out there,
although we don't regulate them,but we know that they need support
and they need good informationaround their own talent development.
So it's about having free resourcesthat people can access
to improve their their working day
and on their skills.
(32:06):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Angie.
I think,
simply put,I guess it really can make a difference.
I think, you know,
I think that's really the key valueswhich really can make a difference.
But and what it can do as us
almost as a self are,but actually makes you reflective.
So the whole purpose of how it worksis how it fits
(32:28):
for the wider organizations understanding.
And I think it can beginit can be actually quite a nice lever
to help begin exploring all of those otherkey parts of the wider whole
to sort of really kind
of look at it in a in a true holistic way.
But absolutely, it's aboutand it will, you know, it can be support
finding the right people that we needin our sector.
(32:49):
Fantastic. John
Yeah,I think if I was to have a key message,
I think it's the values based recruitment,retention, you have to look at it
as a as a holistic exercise. And
in order to do it and all the facts is wayand in order to find,
you know, the right people with the rightvalues for that for your organization,
(33:12):
it's important that you look upall of your processes, start
fresh and think about, you know,all these consistent with our values
as an organization.
If we can do thatand if we can, you know, live in a
live our values through the way
that we deliver care,then that's only going to be helpful.
Positive impacts on not only our workforceand our organization,
(33:32):
but I feel that the care that we deliverto the people we support.
And I think, you know,this is a key to indeed
able to do that more effectively.
Absolutely.
So getting it right, right from the verybeginning to the very finish.
Fantastic. And Ali.
Yes. And I would,
of course, echoall that that the three of you just said.
(33:54):
How did you come in last on this?
It's a bit hard, but there's somethingand even if you just take the keywords,
value people, relationship, conversation,
the point of recruitment is is one point
in a whole life story of of our
as human beings engaging in care
(34:17):
and in relationshipwith people who provide support and care.
So if
if we can think of
how we improve that conversation
about care and about valuing people
and yes, if we're thinking about it
for recruitment, let's let's expandthat thinking in that experience
(34:44):
to other placesof more societal conversation
about the value of careand the value of people,
and repositioning that slightlyfrom where it sits at the moment.
And what a fantastic point.
And and I very much encourageeverybody listening to
to take up the opportunity to lookat some of the resources, case studies
(35:07):
and approaches that have been mentionedthroughout the podcast.
And in addition to this and on the impactswebsite and we've just released
and a whole slew of resourcesabout values based recruitment.
So the findings from from the networkthat was run
and some video explainers about whatthere is values based recruitment
(35:28):
and then looking at and understandinghow that works in practice,
right from understanding the organization.
See some tips on advertising the roleshortlisting and interview
and after the interview,
very much picking up on the rest of itwhere the relationship starts.
You know,this is just the beginning of things here.
And so I want to thank you all very muchfor your contributions today.
(35:50):
And and and it's been a pleasure listeningto all your experiences and insights.
Thank you very much.
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