Chatter Marks EP 127 Shaped by land with Emily Sullivan

Emily Sullivan is a writer, a photographer, and a director whose work is grounded in questions of land, community, and responsibility. Throughout her work, she focuses on uplifting Indigenous perspectives — not by speaking for communities, but by listening to what people are already saying and doing. Her first film, Shaped by Land, is currently screening at festivals. It’s a documentary about Greenlandic skiers and their connection to place, set against the backdrop of the new Greenland Tourism Act — legislation designed to protect land, center local ownership, and resist extractive tourism. Emily’s interest in Greenland is shaped by her experience in Alaska, where many of the same tensions play out under different economic structures. In both places, people arrive seeking experience, adventure, and meaning, often without reckoning with what those desires take from the communities they move through.

Emily’s path to this work started when she was just a kid. She’s always been an observant person, someone who noticed small shifts in light and weather — that’s where her photographic eye comes from — and that sense of awe never really left. It grew out of curiosity, and later, into a belief that anything capable of stopping you in your tracks is probably worth paying attention to. And then, through her work and time spent in Alaska, climate change became personal and immediate — visible in rivers that don’t freeze when they should, unstable ice, unfamiliar weather patterns, and disrupted fish runs. 

Much of her education in climate change came from Alaska Native peoples, specifically women who have been leading this work for generations. That learning shaped Emily’s commitment to bringing Indigenous knowledge, solutions, and sovereignty to the forefront of her storytelling — using careful observation and conversation to explore the forces shaping our collective future.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You mentioned the asking permission of the land, and that's definitely like a newer concept

(00:16):
for me within the last five years of even just like being in a space.
Just like that was something that was introduced to me by indigenous people that I was going
on the land with to like give a gift to the land, whether it's like a little bit of tobacco
or maybe like I tend to gather Labrador tea and dry it and then I'll bring some with me

(00:39):
when I'm going other places and I'll lay some down.
And it's just an offering to say like I'm here with respect and like asking permission
to be here, asking permission to do what I'm doing here.
And yeah, that, I take no, like that was taught to me and I really think it's a great way
to be and I think it's like really helped me to like stay grounded when I'm out doing

(01:04):
things.
And so yeah, I really have made a practice of doing that and you know, when I have traveled
to places like Greenland or Iceland or other like Arctic places, Norway, I take some Labrador
tea with me from the Arctic refuge here and then it's like this nice little connection
of these Arctic landscapes as well.

(01:26):
That was Emily Sullivan.
She's a photographer, a writer, and a director whose work is grounded in questions of land,
community and responsibility.
Throughout her work, she focuses on uplifting indigenous perspectives, not by speaking for
communities, but by listening to what people are already saying and doing.

(01:52):
Her first film, Shaped by Land, is currently screening at festivals.
It's a documentary about Greenlandic skiers and their connection to place set against
the backdrop of the new Greenland Tourism Act, legislation designed to protect land,
counter local ownership, and resist extractive tourism.

(02:17):
Emily's interest in Greenland is shaped by her experience in Alaska, where many of the
same tensions play out under different economic structures.
In both places, people arrive seeking experience, adventure, and meaning, often without reckoning
with what those desires take from the communities they move through.

(02:40):
Emily's path to this work started when she was just a kid.
She's always been an observant person, someone who noticed small shifts in light and weather.
That's where her photographic eye comes from.
And that sense of awe never really left.
It grew out of curiosity and later into a belief that anything capable of stopping you

(03:04):
in your tracks is probably worth paying attention to.
And then, through her work and time spent in Alaska, climate change became personal
and immediate, visible in rivers that don't freeze when they should, unstable ice, unfamiliar
weather patterns, and disrupted fish runs.

(03:28):
Much of her education in climate change came from Alaska Native peoples, specifically women
who have been leading this work for generations.
That learning shaped Emily's commitment to bringing Indigenous knowledge, solutions,
and sovereignty to the forefront of her storytelling, using careful observation and conversation

(03:53):
to explore the forces shaping our collective future.
So here she is, Emily Sullivan.
Welcome to Chatter Marks, a podcast of the Anchorage Museum, dedicated to exploring Alaska
and the circumpolar North through the creative and critical thinking of ideas, past, present,

(04:19):
and future.
My name is Cody Liska, and I'll be your host.
Are there any ideas or beliefs that you changed your mind about through the process of writing?

(04:43):
I don't know if I've changed my mind about any ideas or beliefs while writing.
But I certainly have started with a certain story in mind and shifted the entire thing
in a completely different direction, or seen that maybe the story is elsewhere.

(05:04):
I think with writing, maybe on a personal level to some degree, using writing as processing
to help process beliefs and ideas, but I don't know that I've had that particular experience
while writing a story.
I asked that question because I write a lot as well.

(05:25):
And before the podcast, I wrote for magazines, wrote for newspapers, and maybe I didn't go
into a specific topic or subject with a preconceived idea of where this is going.
But through the process of writing and reporting, there's also a process of discovery, I've

(05:51):
realized.
How often do you have that?
Well, first I should ask, do you have that?
Do you have that process of discovery along with your writing process?
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that's kind of what I meant by, maybe I think the story is going to go in
one direction, it goes somewhere completely different.
Or you just uncover some really interesting facet of a person or a story that you had

(06:16):
no idea about.
So yeah, certainly I can relate to that.
Yeah, totally.
I always love encountering those quirks that turn into the opening line of your article
or the opening scene of your article.
Are you similar?
Yeah, I think it's something I kind of look for, maybe not look for, but I'll notice it

(06:43):
when I'm in the field, maybe like reporting or interviewing someone and realize that like,
oh, there's this particular moment that kind of stands out in my mind and kind of try to
remember all the sensory details of it.
So it's something that I can use to like bring the reader into the moment or into that person's
world.
Yeah, I really enjoy those moments.
Do you think that, because I think writing and writing about people is also kind of a

(07:11):
byproduct of that is getting in tune with human psychology.
And I wonder if you are or feel like you're more in tune with human behavior than maybe
you were before you started to, you know, writing turn into a profession.

(07:33):
Yeah, it could be.
I think I've always been a very observant person.
I mean, I have kind of a funny memory of my dad calling me observant when I was really
young and being like, what does that mean?
And I think that that maybe it's a two way street that influences my desire to share
stories and adds to my skill with telling stories.

(07:58):
And then I'm sure that telling stories has added to my skills as an observer as well.
So yeah, I think there's probably a degree to which like being observant of other people
and how they interact with, you know, a space or a group of people or even just hold themselves
is probably something that I subconsciously do.
I can't say I've thought too much about it until you asked, though.

(08:23):
You know, I don't have this question written down.
I don't have a lot of these first questions written down, actually.
We've just kind of gone down this path.
But you mentioned how your dad would call you observant.
Do you know what kinds of things he was talking about that you were observant about?
I have a particular memory of being very, like, attuned to different lighting and different

(08:52):
things that were happening in nature when I was a kid and trying to get my parents to
come out and look at this time that the rain was falling out of the sky and it was like
backlit.
It was like a sunshower and it was blowing my mind.
I mean, I was a kid and I guess I hadn't seen that before.
And I remember being like, come out and look at this.
And my parents were kind of like, no, you know, they weren't that interested.

(09:14):
It really bummed me out because I was like, this is crazy.
Come look.
Yeah.
I think things like that.
And then also, I don't know, the particular memory of my dad telling me I was observant
was there was a water tower and the words were in an opposite order than I would have
expected.
I was like, what is, why does it say county of Henrico instead of Henrico County?

(09:38):
I was like a little kid and my dad was like, that's a very interesting observation.
Like what, what is, why are you noticing that?
And I couldn't tell you why.
I just noticed things.
And I think like, I didn't, I didn't grow up in a super, you know, I didn't grow up

(09:58):
in Alaska.
I didn't grow up really, really connected to the outdoors.
I mean, the woods were at our backyard and I would go play in them, but I wasn't like
I was like growing up in the mountains or doing a ton of camping or outdoor recreation.
And so I think I also, you know, being in that setting had like, and I was attuned to

(10:18):
like little, yeah, the small, beautiful things that other people might not notice.
And I think that's something I've definitely carried through life is, is noticing like
those small moments or the little shift of light or something that might stand out to
me that other people might just not see and trying to capture that.
With your photography, what tells you that a moment is worth being photographed?

(10:45):
I think for me there, I mean, there's a, there's, there's probably a lot of answers to this,
but one thing is when I'm out in the outdoors, in the mountains, in the woods, there are
moments that like stop me in my tracks or like, I'll say out loud, like even if I'm
by myself, I might like gasp or like, like, Oh wow.

(11:06):
You know?
And, and, and something that stops you in your tracks, I almost always think is worth,
worth photographing.
And there's smaller things too.
Like just, I think more when I'm photographing people, I'm looking for the little in between
moments where maybe someone's interacting with someone else or someone's, you know,
it's the facial expression or it's like where you can read something on that person that

(11:31):
communicates something through the photograph.
So there's, yeah, definitely different things depending on the genre.
How often do you decide not to take a photo for whatever reason?
Oh, fairly often.

(11:53):
I think especially when I'm, you know, working in communities that I am not a part of, but
maybe I've been invited to work with, or I've been invited to be in that community.
I'm always going to be pretty slow to start taking photos because I want to connect with
people first and get to know them and have them feel comfortable with me.

(12:14):
There are times when like assignments don't quite allow for that.
And those are not my favorite kinds of assignments.
But yeah, I would say I spend a lot of time with the camera away just when I'm like getting
to know a group of people.
And there are times too when just, you know, in the outdoor recreation space or when I'm
out in the mountains where, you know, maybe there's like a beautiful photograph that I'd

(12:39):
love to take, but I'll just enjoy the moment for myself.
And I think you'll probably hear that from a lot of photographers or I don't know, maybe
not, but it's probably like half and half.
I think there's like some people who are like, you've got to take it.
And then some people who are like, don't photograph everything because I have, you know, I have
certain memories of seeing like, I remember seeing this one time coming south from Fairbanks

(13:01):
to Denali where I used to live and seeing the mountain out.
And like in my memory, Denali, the mountain, like took up the entire sky, like from like,
you know, as far as the eye could see.
And of course, that's not the reality of what it was.
And if I had taken a photograph, the reality in that case would have been like disappointing.

(13:23):
Like my memory of that is better than a photograph could be.
And so I think there are moments like that as well.
Yeah.
That's an interesting concept or maybe an interesting reality really is that a photograph
can oftentimes diminish the reality of what's actually there.
Yeah.
I think it depends on the, you know, the tools you have.

(13:45):
I mean, on the other hand, a photograph can make something look way more amazing than
it really was.
So I think, you know, in that particular moment, it's like the way the sun was hitting.
It's like the perspective of like where my car was on the highway.
And you bring a lens into that equation and you lose some of it and it's just not going

(14:08):
to be the same.
But then there's other times when like you bring a lens into the equation and you cut
out everything except like zooming way in on something and you've got like this incredibly
epic looking like compressed scene that looks way different than it did to the eye.
So yeah, it's a really interesting medium.
I think also, you know, photographers, a lot of us, you know, especially in the photojournalism

(14:34):
space, like they're truth tellers, like they're trying to capture things that are telling
the truth, but there's always, you know, the perspective of the photographer is always
impacting the truth.
So it's interesting if you really get into thinking about all those details of it.
What was the last time something stopped you in your tracks?
You know, earlier you mentioned that you could be out in nature and something just like floors

(15:00):
you.
Oh, it honestly happens a lot.
I might be easily impressed, I think.
Okay, recently I was fat biking in Campbell track and it was actually like it's been kind
of sad here in Anchorage this winter.
I mean, now we have a great amount of snow, but previously we didn't.
And so it was a little sad looking like the trees should have been super snowy and they

(15:24):
weren't.
They had some frost on them and it was just like coming around a corner and just the way
the light was coming through the trees, like I had to stop there and just like look for
a while.
And, you know, I was out for a bike ride, it was really cold.
I think, you know, it is kind of a funny thing being like someone in the outdoor recreation
space because I do, I stop a lot to look at things.

(15:46):
That's not always, I mean, you know, there are days for it and there are days that are
not for it when you're trying to get somewhere fast.
But yeah, I think like coming around that corner, seeing the light shining through the
trees and just being like, oh, this is epic.
Like same as when I was a little kid, you know.

(16:06):
When you think about intention, what is the intention of your photos?
Are they documents?
Are they invitations to talk about larger issues?
Do they present questions?
Yeah, I think that's evolved over the years.
I mean, you know, I've been taking photographs since I was really young.

(16:27):
My dad taught me to shoot film when I was like probably eight years old on an old Canon
A1 and I shot with it.
I mean, I still shoot with it, but I, you know, from being a little kid up until going
to art school and then up until like turning photography into a profession, I think that

(16:48):
has really evolved.
And so like for most of my life, I would have told you it's to like share these like tiny
little moments that other people aren't seeing that I really appreciate and hope that other
people will appreciate.
And then I think it's evolved into being, like you said, kind of an invitation to conversations
and to thinking about issues that are larger than us.

(17:10):
And that's something that's been within kind of the last like five to eight years that
my photography has been kind of trending in that direction because I became involved in
like community organizing and land protections and working on a lot of environmental issues
and realized I had this other skill that I was like often using just for, I mean, not

(17:33):
that art is very important.
I was doing it kind of for the sake of art previously and then I kind of realized there
was like art could be for the sake of like bigger issues.
And I would say I'm trending, I'm definitely trending more in that direction.
And also, you know, at times doing like true photojournalism where I'm just like documenting

(17:54):
something that's happening and sending it off to an outlet.
Or there are times when I'm doing like a photo essay where I get to help shape the way that
story is told and bring a story to the spotlight that other people might not see.
Or then there's times when I'm writing the story and shooting it and then it's like very,

(18:15):
very much from my lens.
So yeah.
What's it like using that original camera that your dad taught you with?
It's really special because my dad passed away when I was 10.
So that's why I know like I had to have been like eight when he taught me how to use it.

(18:36):
And then my mom gifted me the camera after he passed away.
So it's a very sentimental thing to me when I bring that camera out.
It's like it's not the most practical piece of equipment, but it's very, very special
to me.
It's amazing images and it has like a different quality to it and a different feel to it,

(18:59):
you know, because it is an old film camera.
And it really slows you down to use those kind of cameras where you have to like split
level manual focus and then like do the little light meter and then spend the time setting
up the shot.
Whereas, you know, you can take a digital camera and do the same thing in a quarter
of a second.

(19:19):
But it might take, you know, 10 to 20 seconds to set up the shot with the AE-1.
And I think that makes you a better photographer.
I actually really, really miss spending more time shooting film, slowing down and moving
yourself, moving your body around to like get the right shot or, you know, taking the
time to do the focus and then realize, oh, maybe this isn't where I want to do it.

(19:42):
So you redo the focus and it's just a lot more intention into the image.
Mm hmm.
You know, I think the things that we collect over the years as storytellers, whether they're
tangible or intangible, I feel like they add to our toolbox and they help us become better

(20:11):
storytellers.
I have a few things myself that, you know, I think of often, whether it's my grandparents,
you know, telling stories or equipment that my dad got me or my mom got me.
And you know, when I set up and these things are around me, it becomes a little bit of

(20:32):
a ritual.
But it's also like they're there with me, you know, in those moments.
Even though I may be sitting, you know, there editing by myself or doing a remote interview,
you know, it gives you, it gives you like a sense of purpose and power, you know, having

(20:53):
these things.
And that's, that's kind of what I'm thinking of, you know, when you're talking about this
camera that your dad taught you with.
Yeah.
I mean, and my dad, you know, he was a physical therapist, but he was a really great photographer
and artist and creative person.
And he traveled the world with that camera.

(21:13):
And now it's kind of traveled the world with me, which is cool.
And I remember taking it to the Arctic Refuge a couple of summers ago and making some pretty
special images with it.
And it's nice to kind of think that that's like an extension of, you know, a lot.
I think sometimes if I really think about it, I think my dad teaching me to like shoot

(21:34):
these photos as a little kid, like really impacted the trajectory of my life.
So yeah, it's a, it's an important thing that I've carried with me ever since.
Is there a photo you've taken that you still go back to either mentally or emotionally?

(21:57):
Yeah, a photograph that I come back to often is one that I took on the Hula Hula River
with my friend Carlin Itchok, who he founded the Imago Initiative, which is a trip for
indigenous people protecting the, working to protect the Arctic Refuge.

(22:18):
And it was 2am and the sun was like red on the horizon with like wildfire smoke.
That summer sun up there between the mountains on the Hula Hula, it moves from behind one
mountain across the horizon to behind another mountain.

(22:39):
So you get like two hours in the middle of the night where the sun's shining directly
on you.
And he asked me to take a photograph of him in his perky that had been made for him and
his, his mukluks.
And he danced on the river and I took these photos and it was really hard light because

(23:00):
it was super, super low light, super late at night.
And I was trying to do my best to get to get the images.
And he was just so joyful, like dancing in that moment.
Like it was the, like I said, middle of the night, everyone's sleeping and he's just like
stomping his feet on the ground, like doing an Inupiaq dance.

(23:20):
And I don't know that the photos are like the most amazing photos I've ever taken, but
the moment was really, really special.
And then I felt honored to be asked to make those, those images.
And then the next morning we had a black wolf come into our camp, not into our camp, but
just come really close to our camp and kind of like check us out and then kind of saunter

(23:42):
up the hill. And I had this feeling and I don't know if it's true, but I had this feeling
that Carlin's Dance had invited the wolf to come visit with us.
And so it was just a really neat moment.
And those images like carry a lot of meaning for me and a lot of memory and a lot of like
sensory experience at that place.

(24:04):
So those are something that I return to.
Mm hmm. Does writing, you know, when you're out in these places and you're writing and
you're photographing for an assignment, does writing change the way you photograph or
vice versa?

(24:24):
Um, that's a great question.
I bet that it does, because if I have in my mind, you know, I'm usually taking the
photographs before I sit down to write the story.
But while I'm out with the folks or doing the trip or doing the thing, I'm thinking

(24:48):
about the story as I'm there and I've maybe already done an interview or I've maybe
already kind of like got a bit of an outline in my head.
And so then I'm thinking, well, what images do I need to support that?
Like what portrait do I want of this person or what like how do I need to show them
moving through the landscape?
And so there's definitely it definitely impacts.

(25:10):
I think in a way of just like making me probably take more images, and in that case,
it's like I'm taking images to support the story, not just to capture these beautiful
moments. And so there's more layers of like what what I need to make sure I'm
getting.
Yeah, that's interesting that that difference in thinking about photography versus
writing and then on assignments when you have to do both and you're kind of multitasking.

(25:37):
I wonder if you have a process going into those individual assignments, whether it's
just for writing, just for photography or for both.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
If it's just for photography, I'm probably going to spend some time, more time doing

(25:59):
visual research.
And that's, you know, looking into like the, you know, where am I going?
What does it look like?
What has been captured there before?
What can I capture that's different?
And so if it's just photography, there's I mean, there's almost just more mental space
to like spend time thinking about those things.
But then also I need to make sure, you know, if I'm taking photographs to support a

(26:24):
story that someone else is writing, that's pretty collaborative.
And so I want to make sure, you know, I know who's a character in the story and etc.,
etc. And also in in all cases, I'm going to be writing down like details of people's
names and like where I took something and make sure I have all that, you know, kind of
information. If I'm writing a story, I mean, there's a lot more non-visual research that

(26:53):
goes into it, right? Like, who am I writing about?
What do I know about them?
What questions do I need to make sure I ask to like make sure I'm getting a full
picture? And a lot of times, I mean, as you know, interviewing people, like things come
up in the interview and then you have to add more questions.
And I think that, yeah, that process of like interview, I'm usually going to interview

(27:17):
someone before I'm going to make images with them.
And that's, I mean, I would say knowing something about the person is going to impact
the images we make.
But also if it's somebody who I don't know, which is less common, I'm usually if I'm at
least if I pitched a story, it's probably about somebody who I already know a little

(27:37):
bit. But getting to know someone through an interview is a great way to get comfortable
as well. And the images you make with someone when they're comfortable with you are
always going to be better and stronger.
You do these community profiles for the Alaska Current called Trailblazers.
Has that work changed the way you see your own voice in the outdoor world?

(28:02):
I was doing a lot of similar work previously in terms of like working to uplift people
whose stories might not be told in the outdoors otherwise or in the outdoor industry.
And so I've done quite a few profiles on, I would call them change makers in the

(28:25):
industry, like people of color who are doing a lot of work to get other people of color
out on the ski slopes or who are kind of breaking barriers in the industry.
And so that's been something I've been working on for kind of a long time.
And the Alaska Current had approached me about wanting some sort of outdoor culture

(28:46):
piece that I could maybe contribute to the Alaska Current.
And that felt like a natural fit to me was to find the Alaskans who are doing that,
because a lot of times I'm looking like on a more national and international scale.
But Alaskans always are doing like the coolest things and so under the radar.

(29:07):
And so I was really excited about that idea, which so they asked me, you know, if I had
any like outdoor culture kind of things I could contribute kind of as a skier, actually.
And I kind of came back with, well, what about these profiles on different people from
different backgrounds who are doing really cool work in the outdoors?

(29:27):
And so I this kind of a long answer to your question, but I don't think it changed too
much for me besides like looking really hard for people at home, people in Alaska.
And again, because people are so I feel like people are so humble here and so under the
radar here, you don't always know what people are doing.
And so, yeah, it's definitely a really fun project where I get to kind of like ask

(29:52):
different members of my community who who maybe I don't know about.
It's been a really rewarding project.
Do any of those profiles or people stick out to you?
Yeah, a couple.
I mean, Wongi Kim was a really cool one because Wongi is, you know, he's dealing with

(30:21):
chronic illness and that is and he's just getting after it in the outdoors in such a
cool way. And I think chronic illness is something that's not talked about a lot in the
mainstream. And it's also something that like people don't realize other people are
dealing with. And so sharing his story, I think, was really brave and vulnerable of of

(30:43):
him. And like we had just such an awesome conversation.
And so I was really excited to share his his story.
And then the other one that sticks out to me is the first one I did, which is Dustin
Newman. And he's a new Nongan paddle guide, kayak guide.
And he's also building traditional kayaks and helping bring that practice back to his

(31:05):
community with the help of a mentor.
And there's a reason he was the first person I wrote about because I was really excited
to share what he was up to.
His story is incredible.
How often do you find yourself feeling really lucky and appreciative when you do talk to

(31:26):
these people? And this is coming from, you know, a personal perspective.
You know, I spent a lot of time on my questions.
I do a lot of research on on people like yourself.
And in every single conversation, I find myself being so honored and thankful for how

(31:51):
honest people are talking to a stranger.
You know, do you ever get that?
Oh, yeah, 100 percent.
And I think, yeah, I think all the time it's the easy answer.
I constantly feel lucky to be learning from other people in such an intimate way.

(32:16):
And like you said, people like people lend a lot of trust when they're sharing their
story. And I work really hard to honor that trust.
And I don't I really don't take it for granted.
I also think like it's just kind of an interesting profession for me because I've
always kind of had a fair amount of social anxiety.

(32:39):
And this is like a lot of forced interaction with people that I might not know.
And I think the thing for me, though, is that it feels easy because we go deep and like
I'm not the best at, you know, like surface level conversations or small talk.

(33:00):
That's not really like my jam.
And so when I'm able to like get into a real conversation with someone pretty fast,
it's a great way to to connect and feel comfortable, I think.
Yeah. Yeah, I fully agree.
I also have social anxiety and it's always funny to me when I think about what I've

(33:21):
chosen to do with my life, you know, where I where I talk to all of these like amazing
people. But, you know, ultimately they're just strangers.
And, you know, I don't know where that comes from.
You know, I wonder if if if you know where yours comes from, you know, this reaching
out to other people for that connection, for that education, when in reality, you know,

(33:46):
you you're more of an introvert.
Yeah, I think it's just like a deep sense of curiosity and and I kind of like stumbled
into doing this kind of work.
Like I, you know, always was I always loved writing.
I always knew I could write.

(34:08):
And then at some point I kind of realized I could talk to other people and write about
them like it was kind of something that I didn't get formally trained in.
And so I think once I started doing that, it was so rewarding.
It made me want to do more.
And someone who I wrote one of my earlier profiles on, her name is Judy Kasyama.

(34:32):
She runs an organization called Color the Trails in Vancouver.
She's a Congolese refugee living in Vancouver who created this opportunity to get other
people of color outside, trying new activities, trying new sports.
And I wrote a profile on her in 2019.

(34:53):
And in 2021, I went and biked with her.
And I've seen her twice a year, every year since.
And we're really, really good friends now.
That's great.
So, I mean, it opens doors and opportunities and everybody gets to learn.
And in some cases you make lifelong friends.
So it's it's really great.

(35:13):
Mm hmm.
You know, in a Public Lands piece, you wrote that what we do to the earth, we do to ourselves.
Was there a point when that idea stopped feeling abstract and started feeling more personal?

(35:33):
I think in the last, you know, 10 years in Alaska, like observing the climate change has become like a really personal thing, I think, for a lot of us and maybe all of us.
And yeah, I can think of this one time in particular when I was out doing a backpacking trip in Denali National Park out to Scott Peak.

(35:59):
And you have to walk kind of a long way on a glacier.
And we were out there in the summer.
I mean, it's kind of like a place you can mountaineer in the summer.
But it was this really hot summer.
It was 2000, what was it?
It must have been 2019, that really, really hot summer where we were shattering all these records.
And there were tons of fires and everything just felt so hot and doomy.

(36:22):
And there was like smoke.
And literally the ground we were walking on was melting.
I mean, there was permafrost melting out of the sides of the mountains that we were traversing and just like watching like chunks of ice and rock come down and make, you know, places we wanted to walk impassable and things we wanted to do.

(36:46):
You know, we ended up turning around.
We had an amazing trip, but there was definitely like a high level of climate anxiety and just kind of like reckoning with the moment, I think.
And I think it happens a lot in Alaska.
You know, we see like rivers not freezing up when they should and snow machines going through the ice and communities.

(37:06):
And we see, you know, like these weird weather patterns we're having with the polar air coming down to Anchorage and no snow in Anchorage.
And that's due to changes in the sea ice.
And so I think in Alaska, it's a really easy place for that to feel super personal.
What, you know, what happens to the earth happens to all of us.

(37:32):
How has that reporting on the reality of climate change shaped the way you think and write and photograph climate storytelling?
Well, I've been lucky to have, you know, I would say so much of my education in the realities of climate organizing have come from indigenous people in Alaska and particularly indigenous women who have been organizing and doing this work for such a long time.

(38:10):
And that has definitely, like, impacted my commitment to wanting to make sure that those indigenous solutions are at the forefront of stories that are being told about climate, because, you know, the indigenous people are at the forefront of all of these issues with frontline communities, with eroding shorelines, with, like I said, the rivers not freezing and snow machines going through the ice and their fish not coming back up the Yukon River.

(38:39):
And so I think there are a lot of lenses to tell climate stories through, but the ones that feel the most important to me and the most that I'm like really ready and able and easy to commit to are ones that uplift like indigenous solutions or indigenous sovereignty in the in the fight to, you know, combat climate change.

(40:10):
Climate change, you know, in your storytelling through an indigenous women's perspective, you know, how did you land on that?
Well, I certainly wouldn't say that. It's a, it's, you know, one of those super nuanced things like I can't tell it through an indigenous woman's perspective, right? But can I, can I uplift, you know, a group of indigenous people and their perspective, you know, by sharing like what they're saying or what they're doing?

(40:37):
Yeah. Sorry. That's, that's what I meant by that question is, you know, the subjects of your, of your articles, your photography are indigenous women.
Yeah. And, and indigenous communities. And I think I was working in conservation through a more traditional like nonprofit public lands conservation career path and became connected with people who were working with Defend the Sacred, Native Movement.

(41:07):
Some of these groups that have indigenous leadership like the Wilderness Society had Alaska State Director who was Inupiaq and working with these people in partnership through that conservation work, I just really became friends with a lot of them and became invited to spaces like the Imago Initiative, which is a trip that goes up to the Arctic Refuge every year to get

(41:35):
people, you know, indigenous Inupiaq and Gwich'in people back on their, back on the land and looking at solutions to protect the Arctic Refuge through that lens.
Or being, you know, becoming like really close friends with Jodi Joseph Potts, who lives in Eagle, Alaska, and I spend time up there every winter and every summer for a couple weeks at a time.

(41:58):
And just like, I think, just being friends with people and, you know, being invited into their, both their homes or their community spaces. Yeah.
You know, I'm remembering this, you know, the same public lands piece that I mentioned earlier, you wrote about asking permission from the land and indigenous partners. What does permission look like when you're documenting landscapes or people?

(42:28):
Yeah, I mean, for me, consent is really, really important. And so, even when I'm sent on, like, you know, into a community space to take images, like, recently, the Gwich'in Steering Committee asked me to come take photos of the Gwich'in Gathering in Arctic Village.

(42:52):
And then, to me, it's like letting people know, if you don't want me to take your photo, I'm not going to take it. And so, just like, tell me up front. And if it's a large group of people, it's kind of easiest to do it that way. Like, if you don't want it, just let me know. No hard feelings.
I don't want to say, like, every time I take a photo, I ask, because that's probably not true. Like, if I'm working on a profile about someone and we're out shooting, we've had that consent conversation early on, and the consent is there. But, I think with smaller groups of people, it's like, you know, there's an even more, you can just ask.

(43:30):
I don't know if I answered your question.

(43:52):
No, I think you did. I think it's just about permission. You know, what does permission look like when you're documenting landscapes or people? And I think that that gets to your process when you're on the ground.
Yeah. And I think, you know, like I said earlier, like, the images you're going to make of people are always going to be better if they're comfortable. And it's important. It's also important to me just for people to know that, like, just because I'm here with a camera doesn't mean you have to be in front of it. Like, this is, and the images that I make of people, to me, like, those are just their much, just as much their photograph as they are mine because they're in it.

(44:32):
And so, I've had people say, can I use this photo for XYZ? And, like, I'm like, don't even ask me. The answer is always yes. Like, if I hold the copyright to the photo, which could vary depending on assignments, but if I hold a copyright to a photo of someone, that person can do literally anything they want with that photograph, and I'm not going to be upset about it because it's their image as much as it is mine.
But I think, too, you, like, you mentioned the asking permission of the land, and that's definitely, like, a newer concept for me within the last five years of even just, like, being in a space. Just, like, that was something that was introduced to me by Indigenous people that I was going on the land with to, like, give a gift to the land, whether it's, like, a little bit of tobacco or maybe, like, I tend to gather Labrador tea and dry it and then, like, give it to people.

(45:21):
And then I'll bring some with me when I'm going other places, and I'll lay some down. And it's just an offering to say, like, I'm here with respect and, like, asking permission to be here, asking permission to do what I'm doing here.
And, yeah, that, I take no, like, that was taught to me, and I really think it's a great way to be, and I think it's, like, really helped me to, like, stay grounded when I'm out doing things.

(45:48):
And so, yeah, I really have made a practice of doing that. And, you know, when I have traveled to places like Greenland or Iceland or other, like, Arctic places, Norway, I take some Labrador tea with me from the Arctic Refuge here, and then it's, like, this nice little connection of these Arctic landscapes as well.
Yeah, you mentioned Greenland just now, and you directed a short documentary about Greenlandic skiers and their connection to place. It's called Shaped by Land. How did you decide, and you might need to help me with this name. I've been practicing it, so let me know if it sounds okay.

(46:32):
But how did you decide to make Adam Mickey Kelson the focus of the documentary?
Yeah, I mean, you said Adam's name better than I do.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So his Greenlandic name is a little bit different, but he goes by Adam, and actually in Greenland they say Adam, so you said it just right.

(46:55):
Okay, okay.
And yeah, Adam Mickey Kelson, and he is a, he's a Greenlandic ski guide, he's a hunting guide, and a local Tanook. He grew up in Asiat, north of the Arctic Circle.
I got connected with him a couple years ago through my local friend here, Charlie Renfro, and he knew Adam from the Arctic Winter Games.

(47:20):
I had been interested in the Greenlandic ski community because I actually got asked if I would want to work on a different documentary in Greenland and I didn't end up getting that job, but afterwards I kind of was thinking about it and I was, that other documentary wasn't a story that I probably would have been super in tune with being a part of.

(47:45):
So I started thinking, well, like, what story, what other stories are there in Greenland? Because I know it's indigenous land and I know it's indigenous population, but I'm seeing a lot of, like, US skiers and European skiers go there and ski and make a film and tell their own story.
So yeah, I started kind of looking into the Greenlandic ski community and I honestly couldn't find that much, but I got connected with Adam and we started chatting and he was like, oh, it's amazing. Like, you should come see it. Like, did you want to come to Greenland? And I was like, well, yeah.

(48:16):
And I kind of went over there without really much of an idea of what I was doing or what, you know, what the story I would tell was. I'd had an interview with Adam and long distance and I'd had a couple of interviews with a couple other folks and I just kind of knew, like, you don't see places in the US really where there's like a whole indigenous community who's out skiing together.

(48:43):
That's kind of unique. And so I just kind of wanted to go see what it was about. And I spent a month in West Greenland in 2023 and just kind of, like, following threads. Like, I would get connected with people on Facebook and they'd be like, come to our village and I'd go. And then they'd be like, go to this other village and I'd go. And everyone was so amazing.

(49:11):
And the ski community was so unique and the way that they were, like, connecting their communities through sport was really incredible. So I wrote a feature story for the ski journal about the Greenlandic ski community and Adam was in it.
I spent a couple of weeks staying with him, actually, in Nuuk. But what I knew I kind of wanted to see if he wanted to make a film was when I was staying with him because I was seeing the way he interacted with his son.

(49:42):
And he's just such a tender person and he's so genuine in the way he interacts with his family. It's really moving, I think, to me. I mean, I think maybe it's nothing to him, but I just thought, like, this is a person that I think people can connect with and that people might want to listen to.

(50:08):
And so I said to him, like, hey, would you want to make a ski film? And at first, we just didn't really know what the ski film would necessarily be about. But he was like, yeah, let's do that. And then, yeah, a couple of years later, we made it and it's on the festival circuit now.
Yeah. Yeah, I think for this to work as well as it did, it's, I loved it, by the way. But you needed, of course, yeah, I think it, yeah, I hope it does well on the circuit. But I think for it to work as well as it did, you needed to find someone who works on the land.

(50:48):
And that person can also talk knowledgeably about it through recreation, culture, and also how it affects the people of Greenland. So, I mean, finding Adam was just kind of, I mean, I don't know the population of Greenland, so I can't say this definitively.

(51:11):
But I have encountered enough people and interviewed enough people to realize or to recognize when a story is very individual to a person and very unique to their experience.
Yeah, totally. And so I did go out skiing with Adam in that first trip to Greenland. I went out while he was taking clients, like while he was guiding and he just let me come along.

(51:35):
And seeing him and his business partner at the time, they were like pulling fresh mussels like out of the fjords next to our campsite and they were cooking them on the fire for the clients and they were pulling sea urchins out of the water.
They were cooking caribou that they had just hunted together and showing the video of here's us carrying this caribou off the mountain. And the way that they connected the clients to their culture through food and story was just, that was, I think, the most unique thing to me.

(52:04):
And I realized there's a lot of U.S. guides in Greenland. There's a lot of European guides in Greenland. They don't live there. They go there to guide for a few weeks every spring.
And this isn't about like what's better necessarily, but I realized that people who are going on those trips are just missing so much of the experience of being in Greenland because they're not eating the muktuk.

(52:28):
They're not eating the reindeer. They're not like hearing the stories of how these people grew up on the land. So that was something I wanted to make sure we shared about.
You talk about in the documentary, especially at the very end, when you have a few text slides, the Greenland Tourism Act, which is new.

(52:52):
And it places requirements on who can operate guided tours and commercial trips with an emphasis on local ownership and licensing. What does that shift signal to you about responsibility, access, and relationship to place?
Yeah, I think the Greenlandic people are doing an amazing job of thinking ahead as tourism is really picking up there on how they can protect their land.

(53:25):
And also how they can find ways to benefit from that tourism because if the tourism companies aren't locally owned, then their local communities are not benefiting from the tourism.
A lot of these guiding companies that come from outside don't even pay any taxes in Greenland.

(53:50):
And so there's nothing really, you know, Adam says it in the film, nothing lands there. The money doesn't land there. The benefit doesn't land there. It's all taken away.
So, yeah, I think extractive tourism is a real thing and it happens around the world, not just in Greenland, but the Greenlandic people are seeing like we have these new airports.

(54:13):
International travel here is about to really increase and that's true.
How can we protect what we love? And I think that Greenland Tourism Act, which requires two-thirds Greenlandic ownership for any new tourism company, is a really smart move.
Have you thought about what this would look like if Alaska did something similar, you know, maybe an Alaska Tourism Act?

(54:42):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of why I was in tune with the extractive tourism and the extractive, you know, adventures happening in Greenland because the same thing happens here in Alaska.
And, you know, it's a little bit different probably with some of the economic, you know, structures, but ultimately like people come here quick to do whatever it is, like a guiding trip or fishing season or whatever it is.

(55:15):
It's the extraction economy is real. And so I have thought, you know, one thing I've heard from some communities in the Arctic is about when these like guided hunting groups come through and they see waste and it's really hard for them because they, you know, like they are relying on these animals that are being hunted.
And so like, what if there was some sort of a requirement to have like a local involved with those hunting trips and have any byproduct or any waste like goes, anything that would be wasted because it shouldn't be waste, but it would go to the community.

(55:49):
Like what could some of these things look like? I do think it's a model that would be very interesting.
Do you think that it will stick with you, you know, now that you know about the Greenland Tourism Act, you have a personal perspective on it on the ground from Adam.

(56:13):
And then so now when you travel for assignments or even for pleasure, you know, around Alaska, or even, you know, in your daily life in Anchorage, do you think that you will look at certain extraction, you know, situations with that lens?

(56:37):
Yeah, I mean, I already do. I already see it. And I think, I mean, yes, like also largely influenced by this, these trips to Greenland.
And I think it's something I do struggle with a little bit, because I don't always know what, you know, what I can do. And I don't want to be, I don't want to be mad at people for, you know, doing tourism in a certain way or for, you know, going with maybe a French company when that, like, they've skied with that guy before, you know, it's, I think the kind of the point of our film was to not focus.

(57:18):
On the negative and rather focus on like, what could be a better solution. And so, you know, we present that and it seems like people are audiences are connecting with it.
And so I hope that it gets people's minds kind of like switching into this, the same way as I am like thinking about other solutions for, you know, their community back home, or their, the next place they're going to travel, like what, what's the local community and what resources do they provide that I could, you know, pay for or what trips do they guide or.

(57:57):
And I think Alaska is such a difficult place sometimes because it is so big and spread out and we have so many issues facing us like government wise, budget wise, like, and a lot of differing perspectives.
But I would love to see more benefit on, you know, communities in the Arctic who like there's so much tourism to the Arctic and people will like, you know, step foot in Coctovic to fly back out.

(58:26):
And I'm not saying like, I have no perspective on like what, you know, that community might want but like how do we make sure that people who are doing trips on these like Arctic rivers and spending a ton of money to fly out there on a bush plane like how do we make sure some of that benefit also goes to the communities whose lands are right there and who are like have been there for millennia.

(58:56):
There's this part in the documentary where Adam encounters another boat on the water. It's a French guy and they both talk in English.
I felt like there was so much packed into that little scene, you know, there's the, on the surface, you know, it's just two people encountering each other. Adam, you know, was great, you know, helped the guy out.

(59:26):
But I think maybe a more nuanced interpretation of that is, you know, tourism and encountering a tourist in this, I mean, from the shots, how you shot it, it looks remote, you know, there are, I mean, it's on the ocean.

(59:50):
That has its own remote feeling. You have the white landscape, kind of in the background of some shots. And it's like what I would imagine it would be like if you were a hunter in some of these Alaska native communities, and you're out, you know, you're following kind of a familiar trail.

(01:00:17):
And you bump into like a tourist. You're like, you know, I think it would kind of, at least for me personally, it would kind of make my brain explode. Like, what are you doing out here? You know?
Yeah. I mean, that is exactly what happened. We were doing a scouting trip. And we were hunting for birds while we were out. And we were going to look at where we might ski later in the week. And where we went to is a place where Adam skis a lot and guides a lot. And I have skied with him there before on my previous trip.

(01:00:49):
And it's a place where until recently, only locals were going. And that, I mean, your assessment is exactly right. And that other ship was actually, they were guiding other ski tourists. And so it was a very, in some ways, I mean, how do I say this?

(01:01:17):
Like, that scene, I think, kind of makes our film because you can really see that this, you know, this is happening. And in some ways, it's like, well, we got pretty lucky that that boat was there. But at the same time, it's like, so frustrating. I mean, it was frustrating for me, I will say, to see like, oh, like, how did you find out about this place? Yeah.

(01:01:41):
I think that that scene, to me, at least through, you know, reading your articles, through watching this documentary, from looking at your photography, is a perfect example of the work you do.
You know, here's this scene. And there's no like, intermission within it, or text card or text on the screen that says exactly what we're talking about here. It's for the viewer to interpret. And to me, I feel like that's stronger, rather than, you know, giving you the answer, which would inevitably be from your perspective.

(01:02:27):
Meaning that the viewer would be like, oh, I disagree with that.
Yeah.
Or I agree with it.
No, and I think like, that's such an interesting thing about filmmaking. Because, you know, if I write an article, the way I write it is going to certainly carry a lot of my perspective and opinions. And I do try to, you know, not like, tell people what they should think or anything. It's all open to people's interpretation and their own reaction and opinion.

(01:02:58):
But I think with a film, you're totally just presenting what's there. And then it's been cool to hear different people's interpretations of different parts of the film. Like, you know, I really appreciate what you said about that sailboat scene, because I do think it's a pivotal part of the film.

(01:03:19):
And I'm really happy with the way like, the music and everything kind of like, ended up building emotion in that moment. For the audience.
One of the interesting interpretations I heard from my friend, Princess Johnson, after we screened here in Anchorage, was about a later part of the film when Elik, Adam's son, is like, kind of struggling with putting his skins away, taking them off his ski and folding them.

(01:03:50):
You know, we thought when we were editing the film, like, oh, this is a cool moment, you kind of can see that like, he's newer at this and you see Adam do it super swift and deftly and put them away and you see his skill.
And I thought that contrast was kind of nice. But Princess had this whole other read that I hadn't even really thought of. But she was just like, it shows, you know, seeing the young person like struggle shows how much the mentorship from these like, knowledge bearers, how important it is and how much of an impact it has.

(01:04:28):
And how much that carries like that knowledge from our, you know, whatever it's whether it's a culture bearer or someone with a skill set in the backcountry like Adam, sharing that knowledge with young people is like the path forward.
And so she had this like, amazing read on this like little moment where he's taking his skins off his skis. And I was like, yes. Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad that like, people are, you know, seeing these things. So it's great.

(01:04:55):
How often do you encounter that where you put something out there, like this documentary, and you know, you have interpreted something completely different than what somebody else will interpret, you know, viewing the same exact thing?

(01:05:19):
I think it definitely happens. And this is the first film I've made. So I mean, I've, I've worked on other films and in various capacities. So this is the first time I've directed and had a hand in everything from start to finish. And it's definitely happening with the film more than it's happened.
I mean, I think it happens with photographs, too, for sure. Like, people will have, you know, notice a different detail or like, get a different read on something. But it's, maybe it's just that with film, there's like so much more to unpack, you know, after watching a 16 minute film, but yeah, it's been happening quite a bit in a very positive way.

(01:06:00):
Like people hearing different people's different, like favorite part of the film is always fun, especially when it's like, oh, we almost cut that, you know, like, glad we left it in. Yeah, it's, it's, it's super interesting, especially because I think with a film, you're so close to it.
I mean, I spent six months thinking about almost nothing else in post, post production, getting this thing done. And so now that I've given it some space to breathe, and it's like being seen by some audiences, it's really fun to hear those different reads or like different takeaways, or also just like, you know, hearing from people being like, I didn't even know, you know, I didn't even know people skied in Greenland and things like that.

(01:06:46):
It's just like opening, you know, opening some different perspectives.
Yeah.
What does environmental responsibility look like after awareness? You know, once people already know the stakes?
That's a good question. Yeah, I think, man, this is, this could be a rabbit hole. But there's so many different things we can do, right, to like, to engage in environmental, you know, protection or advocacy, like whatever pathway it is.

(01:07:25):
And I think that maybe the answer to your question is, I mean, it looks different for every person, the environmental responsibility, because I think, you know, there's some people who like make amazing art that like gets other people thinking about issues in the world.
And there's people who go out and, you know, they organize and they are activists, and they are like, getting people to change their behaviors. And then there's people who are like, at home making like, you know, small everyday decisions, like, I'm not going to go on this trip that uses, you know, that I would have to fly, or I'm not going to like use XYZ products in my home.

(01:08:07):
And I think there's so many different ways that we can commit. And I think like, in, for me, it's like, you know, apply as many of those as possible. But I think ultimately, like you asked about responsibility after awareness, and I think ultimately, that's just like committing and paying attention and thinking beyond ourselves, because it's really easy.

(01:08:32):
And I think our society is designed for us to just do what we want and have fun and go on our trips and do our sports and buy our things. And that's rewarding. It has dopamine hits. Like, it's like, we're just enjoying ourselves.
But I think when you become really like aware of your responsibility, there's a degree at which to which everybody should just be thinking about like humanity as a whole. And if you're like thinking about the future Earth that we're leaving behind, or if you're thinking about the communities that like don't currently have clean drinking water, or who are like overheating in the summers when it's 100 and plus whatever degrees.

(01:09:17):
All of those small decisions that make life a little bit inconvenient or make it a little bit less fun are just easier to make.
So yeah, I think ultimately, it's like an awareness of how our actions impact others and a commitment to try to make some changes to that.
How about storytelling, like the kind of storytelling you do? Do you think it can redistribute power, not just representation?

(01:09:52):
I mean, I think that's part of the goal. Like, yeah, I mean, representation alone is not it's not really a tool.
But represent meaningful representation that changes minds and brings perspectives forward that invite people to think differently, and invite people to be more aware of their like impacts on communities or be more engaged with supporting communities like that. That is a power shift.

(01:10:23):
And I think within the last five years, we have seen a lot of shifting mindsets towards putting front lines communities much more at the front of decision making.
And that's like where the real, real power lies. And I think the more we platform these stories, even if they're subtle, like even if it's just, you know, not a huge environmental story, but it's putting like a community, you're getting to know a community, you're getting to know like what they value, who they are, how they live, and you're getting to know more about what's important to them and why their way of life should be valued.

(01:11:08):
I mean, that does shift power because it shifts the, you know, the level of people calling their representatives or the level of people saying, well, we care about this because we value like the glitch in being able to, you know, connect with the porcupine caribou herd in the Arctic or whatever it is.
Is there a story that you're not ready to tell yet, but know you eventually will?

(01:11:38):
Yes, but I don't know that I would want to say much about it. Yeah, definitely. I think there's some stories that require a lot of patience.
Can you give me a hint at maybe the subject or, you know, maybe a small detail of what it's about?

(01:12:07):
Yeah, I would say like on an abstract level, it's really about like reconnecting. And I think reconnecting in a way that can help other people even like begin to connect.

(01:12:37):
Yeah, that's very vague.
That's okay. Yeah, I think that that's good. I think that, I mean, if we were to just talk about recently, you know, with COVID, I think that reconnecting is still something that everybody is trying to do.

(01:12:59):
I think that they're still trying to re-acclimate themselves to being around other people, you know, as simple as that. So I think reconnection is very topical, even just based on something that recent.
Totally. I can very much relate to that.

(01:13:21):
What does accountability look like for creatives working in landscapes that they're a guest in?
This is something I think about a lot. And I think it's personal. And for me, if I'm spending a lot of time in a landscape, or even in an ecosystem, like talking very large scale, I am certainly working to give back to the communities that have stewarded those ecosystems in whatever way I can.

(01:13:56):
And that could be like monetary, that could be advocacy, it could be a combination. And I would hope that other people are doing the same. I do think it's a very like personal choice.
And I sometimes wonder how much, you know, inviting other people to do the same thing would be like welcomed by other photographers and storytellers who maybe aren't like doing things with the same mindset.

(01:14:30):
But I would hope that people are starting to think in that direction. And also like the permission piece, the consent piece is, I think, really important, both from the land and from the people who live on the land.
Yeah, earlier, we talked about asking permission from the people in the land, just like you just mentioned. I wonder if the land has the ability to remember us, what we've done to it individually and collectively. What do you hope the land remembers about you?

(01:15:07):
I hope it remembers. I think I feel like, I mean, this is going to sound really, I can't think of a way to phrase it without sounding sort of cliche. But I do feel like when I'm out there, I try to like really commune with the land and to spend some quiet time connecting and listening to whatever the land's telling me.

(01:15:33):
Or I'll like put my hands down on it and like feel like an energy exchange. And I hope that's a sign of respect that is, you know, remembered and appreciated. But also just like my personal sense of like reverence and awe for the lands that have posted me for, I mean, not only making images and telling stories, but also just personal trips, you know, like going out and doing big traverses or, you know,

(01:16:03):
backcountry kind of summer trips or whatever. I think in those, like I do it because I love and respect the land. And I love the feeling that I get out there and the way that I'm able to like shed everything else. And so I hope that that's, I hope that that's reciprocal.

(01:16:28):
Well, Emily, those are all the questions I have for you. I want to thank you for your time and for the care and thoughtfulness you bring to your work. And congratulations on Shaped by Land.
Thank you so much. And thanks for having me. It was great to talk with you today.

(01:16:57):
For more information about the Anchorage Museum, visit anchoragemuseum.org.
This podcast was produced by me, Cody Liska, for the Anchorage Museum. With additional help from Julie Decker.

(01:17:21):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.

(01:17:57):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.