March 30, 2026 • 59 mins
Sam Davenport writes the AK IRL newsletter. It dissects Alaska reality television as entertainment and as a cultural lens that shapes how Alaska is perceived from the Outside — an idea often signaled right from the start in show titles filled with buzzwords like wild, survival, and frontier. As if there’s a checklist for how Alaska gets branded and sold. She writes about the manufactured drama, the narrative structure, the way reality TV can feel like a funhouse mirror — recognizable, but distorted. And yet, within that distortion, there are moments of truth. Shows like Deadliest Catch have introduced millions of viewers to the commercial fishing industry, offering glimpses into lives they might otherwise never encounter. There’s a reason people keep watching these reality shows about Alaska: there’s a fascination with remoteness, solitude, escapism, and the idea of living outside the noise.
But Sam also looks at what gets left out of these shows. The recurring image of Alaska as an empty, unpeopled wilderness erases the Alaska Native communities who have lived on and stewarded this land for thousands of years. She points to how exaggeration, assumption, and spectacle can flatten the complexity of a place into something consumable, and how that flattening has consequences. Some shows approach that responsibility with more care than others, but the broader pattern of Alaska as novelty, extremity, and myth persists. From fishing boats to gold mines to even dating shows, the state has become a stage where outsiders project their fantasies. And what Sam’s newsletter does is turn that image back onto itself, reflecting both Alaska and the assumptions and expectations of the people watching it.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think that it's really easy to kind of, you know, just watch these people and be like,
(00:18):
oh, they're so silly.
I would never do that.
Or, you know, it's really easy to watch something from the comfort of your home.
And to be fair, I, you know, people who apply for reality TV are a lot braver than me.
I've never applied.
So I, the, the concept of strangers perceiving me on that kind of scale is like enough that
I'm like, actually, no, but I think, you know, there is a reason why there are hundreds of
(00:43):
shows in Alaska that are set in Alaska that, you know, have a theme of Alaska.
It's obviously like a captivating subject for audiences, you know, like they're not
just revisiting the same thing over and over because it's not working.
Like there's, there's obviously a, you know, a method to the madness going on there, but
I definitely think so.
(01:06):
I think it's something that is really easy to kind of dismiss as being, you know, background
noise, but there's lots of substance to these things.
It's just kind of wading through all of the fodder to get to the substance, I guess.
That was Sam Davenport and she writes the AKIRL newsletter.
(01:28):
It dissects Alaska reality television as entertainment and as a cultural lens that shapes how Alaska
is perceived from the outside.
An idea often signaled right from the start in show titles filled with buzzwords like
wild survival and frontier.
(01:49):
As if there's a checklist for how Alaska gets branded and sold.
She writes about the manufactured drama, the narrative structure, the way reality TV can
feel like a funhouse mirror, recognizable, but distorted.
And yet within that distortion, there are moments of truth.
(02:13):
Shows like Deadliest Catch have introduced millions of viewers to the commercial fishing
industry, offering glimpses into lives they might otherwise never encounter.
There's a reason people keep watching these reality shows about Alaska.
There's a fascination with remoteness, solitude, escapism, and the idea of living outside the
(02:38):
noise.
But Sam also looks at what gets left out of these shows.
The recurring image of Alaska as an empty, unpeopled wilderness erases the Alaska Native
communities who have lived on and stewarded this land for thousands of years.
(03:00):
She points to how exaggeration, assumption, and spectacle can flatten the complexity of
a place into something consumable, and how that flattening has consequences.
Some shows approach that responsibility with more care than others, but the broader pattern
(03:21):
of Alaska as novelty, extremity, and myth persists.
From fishing boats, to gold mines, to even dating shows, the state has become a stage
where outsiders project their fantasies.
And what Sam's newsletter does is turn that image back onto itself, reflecting both Alaska
(03:45):
and the assumptions and expectations of the people watching it.
So here she is, Sam Davenport.
Welcome to Chatter Marks.
A podcast of the Anchorage Museum, dedicated to exploring Alaska and the circumpolar North
(04:08):
through the creative and critical thinking of ideas, past, present, and future.
My name is Cody Liske, and I'll be your host.
After watching and dissecting so many of these shows, what do you think is the biggest
(04:32):
misconception about Alaska that reality TV keeps reinforcing?
I think it just is, it's very much this like white colonizer mindset of like, it's rugged.
It's the last frontier.
No one lives here.
Like it's very like, yeah, we are the first people ever to be on this land.
(04:55):
And it's like, okay, we know that's not true.
Like, let's, you know, take a step back and like actually look at that.
I think just the, yes, obviously Alaska is remote and there are some really cool parts
of Alaska and its remoteness that do make for interesting TV.
But also I think when you get to a place so small, you know, you're kind of like people,
(05:21):
when you go into a town of like 60 people or whatever, and you have a camera crew, like
it's obviously gonna, you know, kind of alter everyone's perception or kind of how they're
acting and things.
But I think Alaska for a lot of people is like a lifetime destination.
They've never been, you know, like we were chatting about before.
Alaska reality TV is really big on Reddit.
(05:43):
And it's a really big common theme of people to be like, you know, I've never been to Alaska,
but I watch all these reality shows.
And I'm really into the Alaska, like the theme of Alaska reality TV.
So like I'll find these posts of people talking about how they go through, you know, all these
shows and they compare kind of in show to show of like what feels more authentic, what
(06:06):
is more authentic, what is like fodder and production, you know, drama made up.
So like, I think one of the things that's really interesting about all these different
shows is for the most part, they come from like a few networks, you know, like there's
Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, you know, Nat Geo.
(06:28):
You've got all of the kind of like staples.
And obviously some of them generally skew a lot more sensational than others.
I would say Discovery Channel is way more sensational.
Like the other things that Discovery has on their channel includes like 90 Day Fiancé
and stuff like that.
Okay.
So like just to kind of give you like an idea of like what their, what other audience they're
(06:52):
bringing in, which I love 90 Day Fiancé, there's no, you know, I get it.
But then like...
Yeah, not throwing shade.
No shade.
No.
Yeah.
But then there's like Nat Geo, which is like Port Protection Alaska.
And like, yes, there is like added drama, but it's like, it's not to the extent of it
being like scripted or fake or like criticized for that.
(07:14):
It's like, it's like, oh no, there's a bear.
What are we going to do about the bear?
It's like they're taking, like they have situations that are happening in the town of Port Protection.
That's the, the show is about a place called Port Protection Alaska.
I kind of assumed it was about protecting ports of Alaska.
Okay.
Okay.
(07:35):
But...
It sounds like that.
Yes, it does.
So it's like all these shows too, they have like, it's like a checklist of like what you
need in the name.
Like you have to have the name Alaska or Wilderness or Wild or Survival or, you know, like it's
all of these shows are really like kind of, they all follow this like theme of like interest
(08:00):
of people grabbing people who have never been here before maybe, or that have this, you
know, really idolized view of Alaska through reality TV or through stories that their family
has told them from visiting Alaska or, you know.
And a lot of times not, you know, not everyone, but a lot of people who come up here that
(08:22):
are tourists are coming up on, you know, cruise ships.
So they're kind of getting like a really distinct, specific view of the state.
It's not necessarily what, you know, it's like, it's very...
Curated.
Very curated.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Like it's very, it's very like with a magnifying glass in certain places, but it's like, you
kind of like really gloss over a lot of other spots in the state, but yeah.
(08:46):
And I don't know, I think that also just kind of like feeds, like all of these shows really
just are the content machine that keep feeding also the, like the travel industry.
Like I don't know, it's really interesting seeing all of these shows too.
One that I was watching the other day, the great Alaska food race, food truck race.
(09:09):
Yeah.
So they had these seven teams of people in the first year of COVID.
It's like, they start filming in like October, 2020 and they're like driving food trucks
around.
They take them to Talkeetna.
Like, they're like, there's no one here.
It's a dead town.
It's like, whose idea of a show is this?
But interspersed in between this like cooking show that like is kind of like, like, okay,
(09:33):
I guess like you were trying to make a season work.
I get that.
It's like also parading around to be this weird, like Alaska destination show.
So like they have challenges in each episode, but all of the challenges were very like over
the top Alaska themed that like from other seasons, I don't think they're like that.
(09:55):
So to go get their seed money, which is like the money that they used to go to the grocery
store to get their supplies to go cook.
They're like, oh, we have to go and go get chaga out of the woods.
But they're not actually getting chaga.
They're just snowshoeing two buckets of chaga that have already been harvested.
(10:16):
And the seed money is like in the bucket.
So I'm like, okay, so they're not harvesting chaga.
And then like, they like, okay, that's fine.
But like, what are we doing?
Literally one of the women like got frostbite.
I was like, what is happening?
The other one, they're in Seward.
They have to go gold panning for gold.
And they bring out this dude named Prospector Joe or whatever the hell his name is.
(10:38):
Like Prospector Dave, like he didn't even have a last name.
His first name was Prospector.
And I was like, literally they were like, we got to pan for gold and you got to go get
your gold and then you can get your seed money.
It's like, what?
I thought we were, what is this?
We're a food truck show.
It was just so like, I had to like go back.
Because I was like, did I put something else on?
(11:00):
Like did Hulu just automatically start on a different show?
It sounds like Yukon Cornelius from the Red Nose Reindeer cartoon way back.
Exactly.
And even that, like, it's like, okay, what if we go to Alaska and we see Prospector Dave
or whatever?
(11:21):
Like that is a fictional, yeah, sorry.
It's just so stupid.
Like that kind of thing.
And this was filmed in 2020.
You know what I mean?
Like this is just like very much like feeding that like, yeah, the Prospector, the like
sourdough, like it's very much like, yeah, it was trying to like merge multiple shows
(11:45):
in one kind of thing.
It's like this meets this also with this, like.
Yeah.
So Deadliest Catch has been on the air for nearly two decades now.
Why do you think it's lasted so long?
Deadliest Catch is such an interesting one because, you know, the fishing industry, commercial
(12:10):
fishing, it is really dangerous.
And it's something that not a lot of people outside of Alaska, unless you come up here
and fish in the summers, you know, before that show you really knew about.
And with those kinds of shows, you are, you know, showing a view into what that life is
like.
And it is super intense and crazy.
(12:34):
And those gravitate towards people because they are knocking those things where it's
like Alaska is wild, but it's also like you have the human element of people that you
care about.
You have, you know, the drama, the life on the line, like the stakes are real.
(12:56):
Your actual lives are on the line.
You know, it's not like we're driving our food trucks and, oh no, the food truck broke
down.
Like it's, these are two different things, you know, on the scale.
So like it's one thing to like break down on the side of the road.
It's another thing to like have a vessel like submerged and, you know, like capsized or
(13:16):
whatever.
So it kind of goes back a little bit to what we were talking about with like the travel
industry and all these things.
Like I always wonder about how connected like the seafood industry is to like Deadliest
Catch, you know, like how that has impacted like Alaska seafood sales.
Like was that, like, I don't know, that's something that I really want to get into and
(13:38):
kind of look into when I start writing about that show because I think a lot of people
look at reality TV and they might scoff or like be like, I don't watch reality TV.
And I think it's a really big lens that people don't really assume that they're watching.
But it might be considered reality TV.
Like I wrote about Antiques Roadshow and like some might not think that that's reality TV,
(14:03):
but it is like there is a human element.
Those humans are not like rehearsed.
Like those are, you know, those are authentic conversations and things that are happening.
The stakes are a lot lower, you know.
It's like, does my grandma's heirloom, you know, cost $500 or $5,000?
It's not like, you know, again, capsizing a boat, but like there are stakes.
(14:24):
There's the pressure, like the human element of the story that kind of, you know, gravitates
to people.
But yeah, I think one thing too that I've really, watching reality TV is like, obviously
there's all these things that are very sensationalized.
Like yes, the sensationalist can still exist, but there can also be truth to what they're
(14:52):
saying.
And I'm not in terms of truth and like, we should be like, yes, Alaska is so wild, so
interior.
But like the substance, I guess.
So for the food truck race was just like listening to it yesterday, I watched, it was like a
six episode show or season.
So I just kind of like blew through it.
(15:14):
And I remember I was like, we have like a little kitchen living room that's like all
in the same space.
So like I was doing dishes, but I couldn't see the TV, but I was still listening.
And they were on the Palmer episode and they were talking about all these extremes and
how they have all this large produce.
And they were like, we, Palmer grows everything.
They grow cabbage, they grow broccoli, they go grow cantaloupe.
(15:36):
And I go, they don't grow cantaloupe.
No, they don't.
And I like scoffed.
Yes, they do.
So like, I don't know, like things like that, that kind of like surprised me where it's
like, I've lived here my whole life.
I'm wrong often.
But like even being like, I was like, no, there's no way that we grow cantaloupe here.
Yes, we do.
And we have like pretty sizable records for like 60 something pound cantaloupes.
(16:02):
But like things like that, that kind of just like lead you down a little rabbit hole or
kind of getting into like, I was reading for probably 30 minutes last night about like
how to grow melons in Alaska and what to do with the soil and things.
And it's like, yeah, I don't know.
I think the fun thing that I like about reality TV is that it just leads you down these weird
wormholes that you wouldn't think about otherwise, you know?
(16:25):
And were you doing that before you started this newsletter?
Were you watching these shows and also kind of fact-checking them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I feel like, you know, I've always loved reality TV.
I feel like I've also just been that person that, you know, being a writer slash former
(16:47):
journalist slash someone who's just nosy, like, you know, you just like, like, it's
like by curiosity will be the best of me, you know?
So it's like, I'm going to go figure that out.
Like I will be the questioner on that or if, you know, someone else has probably asked
that question.
So let's go find if there's an answer.
And I don't know, I've always definitely done that and I've always loved reality TV.
(17:09):
I definitely feel like the fact-checking and kind of like, I don't know about that has
always been part of it, but having a newsletter to write about certain things is really fun
because I can just get really in the weeds on things.
But yeah, I like, I remember this was like 10 years ago now.
So Catfish, the TV show that MTV did for 10 plus years, they came to Alaska to film and
(17:37):
they went to Kodiak specifically.
And at the time I had a friend that worked for Raven Alaska, which is no longer a thing.
Rip Raven.
And my friend texted me because she knew I watched Catfish and said, hey, I'm not supposed
to tell you this, but Niamh Shulman and Max and the whole cast and like crew of Catfish
(17:58):
are coming through tomorrow through Anchorage to go to Kodiak.
And they're coming back two days later because she worked there and could see their flights.
And I was like, oh my gosh, I should like, you know, go meet him.
Like that never happens or whatever.
Because like, what is a 19 year old?
Also this is like one of those things that I tell and I'm like, you dumb, dumb, dumb.
(18:21):
Like, why did you?
Like my brain was not fully formed.
Like, oh my, like, I like, I like tell this story.
I'm like, I'm also rolling my eyes.
So like, for what it's worth, like, girl, goodbye.
So social anxiety feared me.
So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to the airport and just run into him because
(18:45):
this is duh.
Um, cause that's what you do in Anchorage when it's like April and there's nothing to
do.
So I'm like in the airport and I like see him and I just like walked over and said hi,
can I get a photo?
And he like smiled and was, he was nice enough.
Like it was, it was fine.
It wasn't like a bad interaction.
Like it was, it was funny if anything.
(19:06):
Um, and I got a photo with him and that was really it.
And then I remember being like, oh, I wonder when the episode will come out.
And it wasn't that the episode was like wrong.
Like it didn't have any factual inaccuracies, but it was again, very like flalala drama.
Like it was like, oh, we're going to Kodiak.
So remote.
(19:27):
We've never been to Kodiak before.
And we're going to an island off the coast of Alaska.
Like it was like, we've never gone to these extremes before.
Like it was like, even on a show that like the purpose is not focused anything in Alaska,
you know, even that element of like, we're going to, I think in one of, in that episode,
(19:50):
Max, the other host of the time says something like, it's hard to believe that this is America,
you know, like even like, it's like, oh my God.
Okay.
Like, it's like, really?
It's hard to believe that Kodiak is America.
There's trucks and American flags everywhere, but okay.
I don't know about Kodiak being so different from all of America, but like, it's just like
that kind of thing, you know, it's very like hyperbolic.
(20:13):
It's so hyperbolic.
Thank you.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's very, it has to be all, all the eggs in the basket kind of thing.
Like it's so extreme, so savage.
When you turn on an Alaska reality television show, what hooks you?
You know, what makes you think like, oh, this is interesting.
(20:36):
Like this might be a good one.
I think what draws me to certain Alaska reality shows, I, not that I don't appreciate the
sensationalism, but I do think that that kind of like pushes me away a little bit because
it's like, okay, how real are we going to make this?
(20:59):
Or is it the whole thing going to be?
We're so wild.
We're so remote.
Everything is so hard, you know?
Whereas like, there's other things that are real interest, human interest stories that
I think are interesting, like port protection.
They are talking about getting a new water heater.
(21:19):
So it's like the process of getting a water heater onto this island and like things that
are like, yes, real world, but like do grab your attention in that way because it's like
whether, whether the camera crew's there or not, they're going to get that water heater,
you know, figured out and going and all that stuff.
But like, I think even with Alaskan Bush people, a big gripe about that one is that
(21:45):
like, it feels very like they set up the cameras and they're like, okay, go, you know, like,
it's not like people are living their lives and the cameras are just there.
I think the, you can really see when stuff is performative.
And one thing that I noticed a lot too is, and I think it's happening more in newer shows,
(22:08):
like it definitely happens in older shows, but I feel like I've noticed it's like an
editing technique in newer shows is it's called a Franken dub.
I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically like when you have like someone's
like audio.
So it's like you're showing a scene and you hear someone talking and it just sounds kind
of funky.
It's because they've gotten like two or three different audio clips and like cut them together
(22:30):
to make them say something that they're not really saying.
Yeah.
And that's just always a weird one because like, once you hear it, it's like, I feel
like when you read AI, like, it's like, it's kind of hard to like unsee it.
Like, it's like, it's one of those where it's like you hear it and you're like, Oh, that
was that, you know?
But I feel like that's more common in documentaries as well.
(22:53):
Now where I work in audio every single day, I'm listening to an editing
audio weekly.
And so my ear is attuned to that.
And so when I'm watching a documentary, I can tell when they cut someone off mid sentence
(23:18):
on like an S and that S has a hard stop.
And then what they do is they turn up the music to try to conceal it.
But I'm like, I know what you guys just did.
Like, yeah.
And, and then I always wonder, I mean, I don't use it because I don't have to, but what's
so weird is like, I also know how to make that softer.
(23:43):
So it's like, okay, two questions there.
It's like, what's the rest of that sentence is probably the most important, like journalistically,
like what's the, what, where was that going?
Was it part of the same question that was asked by the interviewer or part of the same
thought process?
Also, don't you guys have enough money for a better editor?
(24:08):
No, exactly.
Like, it's so frustrating when you're like watching something and they're like, I think
the worst part about talking to Cody, like, it's like such an, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, it's like, oh, okay.
That was obviously someone in post that was like, oh shit, we need you to say these three
lines or whatever.
Right.
Like, we need you to get this like phrase so we can like cut together how this scene
(24:31):
is or how, and those are obviously more, you know, reality heavy shows, but.
And how do you, how do you feel about that?
I mean, you, I met you as a journalist and I feel like that, that integrity just doesn't
go away.
I don't, I don't believe it does to anybody who was a journalist, you know, you, you are
(24:51):
attracted to truth telling.
And when you hear that type of stuff, I mean, it goes so much against the grain of journalism.
Yeah.
Like it must, you know, must make you feel a certain way.
Yes.
No, I do not like it.
(25:12):
No, it's as the three-year-old, I mean, he says, I do not like it.
It's, I, I, so, you know, you've interviewed plenty of people before.
One common thing is you're not necessarily cleaning up a quote, but you're shortening
a quote.
Like me, I'm using a lot of ums, wells, things like that.
(25:34):
So you can use, what is it?
Your three dots in basic.
Oh my God.
I just had a baby.
Okay.
Basically you can like shorten a quote by adding three dots and like taking part of
the quote out.
Ellipses.
Yeah.
Ellipses.
(25:54):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you.
So, and those are, those are things that as a reader you do see in the text, you know?
Yeah.
You can see the three dots and you can kind of insinuate that like, okay, maybe they were
saying something in between here that just, we're trying to get to the point faster, you
know?
And sometimes I think it's like that with reality TV where it's like, did they have
(26:15):
someone just rambling in the studio and they're trying to get their minute cut down to, you
know, 30 seconds or whatever.
And they're just kind of like trimming those bits.
But it's still, you know, as a viewer, as a listener, you don't know that they're doing
that or that is what they're doing because it's not shown to you, right?
There's not that visual of like, there's an ellipses here or whatever.
(26:37):
So I don't know.
I've always thought it's weird.
It's definitely a thing in, you know, I think in more recent shows where contestants on
these shows will be like, I didn't say that.
Like, which I think kind of is more, I would be, I don't know, like I'm sure the packet
that you sign or the forms that you go on these shows is, you know, multiple inches
(27:00):
thick.
Like I'm sure it's insane, but I'm sure there's some weird autonomy feeling of, you know,
like watching a show that you like have a vested interest in and you're like, whoa,
that's not what I said.
Like, I don't know.
I'm sure that's super, like I'd love to like, yeah, I'm really interested in like talking
to more people who have been on these reality TV shows too.
(27:23):
Cause I don't know.
I think like, yeah.
What was your, like, what were, what was their perception of going on the show versus what
was the reality?
And like, yeah, I think that, yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I think that would be really interesting.
I think about it the same way I would, I'm looking forward to that newsletter.
You know, when you are able to chat with somebody about their experience and then their experience
(27:48):
on the show, I should say.
And then the separate experience of watching themselves on the show.
Totally.
I bet it feels for me, it would feel, I would never do it.
So it would feel, it'd feel kind of weird and gross and eerie.
But I think that if, if I wanted to do it, I would also think it's eerie because it's
(28:12):
like watching you, but not you.
Yes.
And even if you totally, and I feel like even if you're not trying to, everyone is putting
on some facade to an extent, like you are aware that there are cameras in the room.
You know what I mean?
You're being filmed.
You probably are not being your 100% unfiltered.
(28:33):
Like you do have this like, yup, I should maybe, you know, watch what it, not every,
oh, that's not always true.
There's some insane people on reality TV, but you know, for the, I do think for the
most part, people have that stop where they're like, oh, actually there are four cameras
on me right now, you know?
But yeah, I always am curious.
(28:55):
Like people are like, what show would you go on?
You know?
Or like, I always ask people that, you know, like what's there?
Cause there's just everything.
And what show would you go on?
I, so for a while I was like, I could do Survivor.
And then I was like, you're insane.
That was when I was, I was literally like nine months pregnant and I was like, I should
(29:18):
apply for Survivor.
And my husband was looking at me like, hey, can you have this baby first?
Like, hey, you're like freaking me out a little bit.
Like, to be fair, when I was pregnant, I had like really, really horrible nausea.
So I was on the couch a lot.
So I literally binged all 49 seasons of Survivor in like, in like nine months.
(29:38):
Yeah.
So I was like, it's like a concern.
Thank you.
And everyone was like, hey, Cleen, you good?
I'm like, I'm great.
And we're watching 50 now and it's awesome.
And, but for the longest time I was like, I could do this.
Which, no, I do not think I could.
(30:01):
I think my answer has since changed.
I don't think that I could be like on the beach, just eating, drinking coconut water
for like 26 days.
I think that sounds horrible.
I think my social game would be pretty good.
And that's about it.
I don't think I would be good in challenges.
I think I would be pretty good on something like Big Brother or The Traitors where you're
(30:23):
in a house and you do not have to worry about like survival.
Like you can just play the social game, you know?
Yeah.
I think I would be good at a social strategy kind of game.
Like The Traitors is one that has been pretty popular lately that is like, it's basically
like the game of Mafia in TV version is kind of how I describe it to people.
(30:43):
So it's like, you have the Mafia and you have to figure out who they are.
Like, it's like you have The Traitors and you have to figure out who they are.
So some people are like lying and you have to figure out who the liars are.
So those are always kind of like fun and intriguing to me.
But, you know, I've never actually applied to be on a show.
Like I've gone and looked at the like, what are they looking for submissions and stuff,
(31:03):
but never applied.
(32:13):
What do you think Alaska reality TV reveals about what audiences in the lower 48 want
to believe about wilderness and independence?
I think that this constant need of being remote, being rural, being alone, you know, it's
(32:42):
enticing and interesting as a viewer in any aspect, right?
Like you can, it can be the show alone, but it could even be, you know, the subjects in
Alaska specifically that are captivating to people.
I think, I didn't mention it earlier, but like talking about like this reality TV boom
(33:04):
and stuff with like Deadliest Catch.
And I think, I don't think they were the sole reason, but I do think the Palins had a lot
to do with that of just kind of like Sarah Palin having her own show and then Bristol
Palin being on Dancing with the Stars multiple times.
Todd, I think also was on a show.
And then Levi was like pitched for a show.
(33:24):
Like, I think even just, I don't know, like the, I think, you know, pop culture there
in, you know, culturally, we as audiences find a family or people that are interesting.
And Sarah was a great example of that in the 2010s because she had just done this campaign,
(33:50):
you know, nationally, no one really knew her before.
And then it was like, who's this mama bulldog lipstick wearing, whatever her hockey phrase
thing is that, you know, she always would say.
And it was like, well, let's get to know her.
And I don't know, that was just like, even just the Palin pipeline of like all of these
(34:12):
shows and all of this interest in even Wasilla, you know, I was reading an article that Susanna
Caldwell had written for ADN like 13 years ago or something.
And it was talking about kind of like the Alaskafication of reality TV.
And like what people are looking for, you know, when they're watching these shows.
(34:33):
And it's like something, you know, a little bit of escapism, I think, like this, like
wanting to, like, what would that be like?
And I do see on Reddit quite a bit, like people talking about, like, I wish I could move to
Alaska.
Like, I, you know, dreamed my whole life about living in Alaska and all these things, which
is always just, you know, someone from here is just such a, grass is always greener.
(34:56):
Like, I love it here, obviously.
But like, it's, yeah, it's like, come on up, like, I don't know, like, yeah, but I think
even just like the painted portrait that people have of what Alaska is, is like, you know,
you get a little bit closer and it's like, you know, you see a little scuffs in there
or whatever.
But I think you can really tell when someone is intentional about the shows and the work
(35:21):
that they're doing.
It goes a long way when someone from the cast or someone from the crew is from Alaska, you
know, like you can, you can tell when there is that Alaskan element in that Alaskan, like,
we ran this by someone that lives there, kind of, you know.
And I think that separates some of the better shows from some of the worst shows, you know,
(35:46):
like you can, for the most part, like if you're looking for it, you, you can find it.
Like if you're looking for it, you, you can see the shows that are like, oh, we need to
add in X, Y, and Z to kind of like fill out this plot point versus they're doing their
lives with or without a camera.
Whereas like this scene may not happen if there wasn't a camera up to actually like
(36:11):
record it, you know.
You know, these shows often frame Alaska as a place people escape to rather than a place
people are from.
How does that framing erase the stories of people who have lived there for generations?
(36:34):
Oh, I mean, I feel like so much of reality TV is this, you know, I think I said it at
the beginning of this, colonizer white mindset of the harsh beauty, the extreme of nobody
being here.
And it's like, that alone is, you know, erasure of indigenous people that have stewarded this
land for thousands of years, you know, in whether or not it's intentional, it doesn't
(36:58):
really matter.
It's still, you know, fact that that is not truth, you know, like it's these wide assumptions
and, you know, hyperbolic statements are, they are damaging.
And it's one of those things that you can tell the shows that try to do it with more
care versus the ones that, you know, have the crazy narrator that's going to have his
(37:24):
checklist of Alaska and all of these, you know, crazy buzzwords to make it seem so crazy
and so cool.
But I don't know.
I think that I'm really looking forward to Life Blows Zero, First Alaskans for that,
because I feel like the TV that I've watched so far, you know, isn't representing Alaska
(37:45):
native life at all.
It's very, I mean, even Antiques Roadshow, like that was a really interesting one because
like there were a few people that they had on there that were indigenous folks that had
like heirlooms from their family or, you know, things that had been passed down.
But there were also, there was a woman that was like, had this gorgeous Chilkat blanket
(38:10):
that she was like, this hung in our living room for 40 years.
And it was like a children's blanket.
They had no idea what it was, you know, like, and that's fine.
But like, it's also just kind of like, like that, those episodes weren't weird to watch,
but were kind of like weird to write about because it was like, I don't know, I remember
going to Antiques Roadshow when they filmed and it was at the Alaska Native Heritage Center.
(38:36):
And, you know, they're sorting you by the items that you have.
So you'll go up in line to a certain appraiser who specializes in that thing.
And we had like a chair, so we were in furniture and then art, so somewhere else.
But I remember the Alaska Native section was literally like, that line was miles long.
And it was predominantly that line was filled with white people, you know what I mean?
(39:01):
And a lot of those people had ivory, you know, those people had items that they could not
legally even sell.
Like, I remember seeing a dude with baleen and, you know, to be fair, maybe he wasn't,
like, I don't know, like, I don't want to like pass judgment.
He appeared to be a white man holding this piece of baleen.
And I don't know, even just that, you know, it's like,
(39:25):
the idea of, like, Antiques Roadshow coming to Alaska.
So it's like, well, let's get out all of my, you know, native wares and see how much they
are.
Like, I understand wanting to see the value in something.
But also it's like this weird, it was this almost gamification of it, right?
It's not, it's really not as authentic coming from this white woman who, like, had this
(39:51):
blanket rolled up in her basement for 30 years, because, you know, she didn't know
what it was, and she didn't want to, you know, damage it, which I totally, I guess that's,
I don't know, it's hard, right?
Exactly.
It kind of is like, it's this question that I don't totally know the answer to yet, I
guess, in terms of, like, it is quite damaging.
And how do you change that?
(40:12):
Just obviously getting more people in front of and behind the lens that are not white
and that have, you know, different perspectives and values of, like, how we could do these
things.
But, yeah, I think there's a lot of education in that situation where, you know, that could
(40:33):
hopefully fix that understanding of these traditional garments, traditional pieces that
are meant to continue to be experienced, rather than, you know, stuffed away in a garage
or an attic.
(40:53):
Yes, exactly.
And that was the thing, too.
It's like, there's, there were obviously items that certain people came on and they, you
know, I, there were plenty of things that were handled with the utmost care, you know?
But I do think there was this, you know, even just being there and with my friend who also
commented on, like, wow, look at that line.
(41:14):
Like, that's a lot of people going to get, like, their, you know, items appraised.
And I don't know, it was, yeah, it's just the, you know, a much bigger question and
pondering point of, you know, like, how do we consume media and how do we also, you know,
(41:35):
like, can you consume this kind of thing?
I don't know, ethically, but like, you know, like, you just have to watch it from a perspective
of knowing that some things are flawed, right?
Like, I, I've watched Real Housewives with people and they're like, how can you watch
this?
These women are horrible.
I'm like, exactly.
I do not watch this because I like them.
(41:55):
You know what I mean?
Like, I watch these women because they make good TV.
Like, those are not the same thing.
Do you, in your everyday life, like, if you were to encounter somebody who is, you know,
like a reality television type personality at, say, Cars, you know, you walk in and they're
(42:20):
just, you know, being a prima donna, they're, you know, loud, they are self-important.
Do you watch that?
Do you watch that?
Oh, yeah.
I would probably, I mean, I really have a hard time, like, shutting up.
So I would, I don't know, it depends.
This is a fun, like, what would you do, John?
(42:41):
John can see, like, situation.
Like, it's, depends on, like, if she's, like, if she verbally harassing the person, then
I'd probably, like, say something like, is she, she being unnecessarily, we had this
happen when we flew back from California recently.
There was a guy that was, like, being so unnecessarily, like, went up and basically
(43:02):
just started, like, harassing one of the attendants at the gate and, like, was like, I didn't
know you could just come here and, you know, scroll on your phone for 15 minutes.
Is that, where can I get a job where I can just come and scroll on my private phone for
15 minutes?
That's so cool.
It was like, what is wrong with this guy?
But anyway, long story short, he started, like, actually verbally yelling at her and
(43:24):
I was like, you're an idiot.
Like, I, I actually didn't say you're an idiot.
What did I say?
I said, what kind of man are you?
Who yells at a woman like that?
That's what I said.
But anyway, that doesn't need to, that's not here or there.
But I think for the most part, I don't know, I think, yes, it's fun to watch these things
and yes, it's entertaining.
(43:44):
But, like, if, yeah, if you were in a situation in real life and you saw something happening,
like, yeah, it's probably a lot, you know, it's different when it crosses over from the
screen to your real life.
Yeah.
Do you remember a scene or a storyline in an episode or a season of an Alaska reality
(44:07):
TV show that really hooked you?
Um, I wouldn't say it, it definitely, like, hooked me.
And I'm, it's like, it kind of started my interest into something else is, um, so I
started watching all this Survivor.
And then I was like, has there ever been anyone from Alaska who's ever played, you know, and
just kind of like going down these rabbit holes.
(44:28):
And, um, there has been someone from Alaska that has played, but she did not play in the
American version of Survivor.
She played in the Philippines version of Survivor and she actually won.
Her name is Amanda Cooley Van Cool.
That is her real name.
She lives in Fairbanks and, um, she won in like 2009 or something.
(44:49):
So it's like been a while, but, um, the, I feel like just the Survivor, um, like, um,
what's the word?
Trail that I've gone on from like watching the show to being like, oh, what are there
any people that have played from Alaska?
Um, and recently, so Survivor 50, the like 50th season is out, um, currently airing.
(45:17):
So to like kind of get people hyped up, they did a Survivor 50 idol challenge, um, which
was basically like each state on varying dates going up to the premiere, um, hid an immunity
idol in each state.
And there was a clue given out and you could go like hunt for the idol, which was kind
(45:38):
of fun.
Um, so it was fun to like watch Survivor and then have this like real world element of
like gameplay come in.
Um, we did not actually end up going idol hunting because we were in California at the
time and it was also at Chena Hot Springs.
And I was like, I don't really want to drive up to Chena, you know, with a baby, like to
(45:59):
go idol hunting.
Like I actually, it's okay.
Um, but the whole purpose is you can go get a photo with this idol and you will be entered
into like a sweepstakes and in your state.
So you're, you're against everyone else in your state.
One person will be picked and they'll be like flown to California for this, um, season
(46:19):
finale of Survivor, um, and get to like meet the cast and all this stuff, um, which is
kind of fun.
But I had done a story, um, about it a couple of weeks ago and was talking to some people
who went idol hunting and it was just, I don't know, it's, it's fun talking to people who
just like have such a strong tie to shows and, you know, things like this.
(46:42):
Like I talked to a gal who's from Fairbanks, she went idol hunting with her son in Chena
and she's, her daughter was, lives in Michigan.
Her, she had her daughter go look for the idol there and they like both submitted or
whatever.
She's like, I've watched the show since it came out in the 2000s.
Like I've applied to be on the show.
Like I, you know, like I've had like my kids apply.
(47:02):
Like it's like, this woman is like invested, you know, like it's, um, and it's fun to talk
to people that get so excited about stuff like that.
Right.
Like it's like, um, like I think she said something like this was like the show that
we watched as family growing up.
Like, you know, this was the, you know, our go-to and I don't know, like even when I was
(47:24):
doing my, my very long binge last year, um, my husband, um, would like come in during
some episodes and be like, Oh my God, that's Rupert.
Like I watched this season when I was like 12 years old or whatever, when it was on TV,
like, um, cause it's been on since 2000, you know what I mean?
So it's like, um, I dunno, there's few shows that have kind of like stood that time to
(47:48):
where it's like, have actually stayed on TV that long too, you know?
Um, and Survivor is just kind of like the, the blueprint of all of these other shows
of Alone and Outlast and Alaska Survival Challenge and stuff, you know?
So, um, it's, it's interesting kind of seeing the blueprint show and like, um,
(48:12):
thinking about like producers and people watching this and being like, okay, well, what if we got
the elements of this show and put them with the elements of this show, you know?
Like, I dunno, I just, I would love to be a fly on the wall in those kinds of conversations.
Like that stuff is always so interesting to me.
But.
If you could design a reality show that actually captured real life in Alaska,
(48:38):
what would that look like?
That's a great question. Um, hmm.
I like the ones that are like, still educational, but like,
not necessarily low stakes, but like not life or death, right? Like, I want a, like a show that is
(49:02):
the guy's job that adds how many salmon are counted, like every day in like the canine,
like who's like, I want to like see that guy's like job or something or like, I dunno, like
the odd jobs of Alaska or like the jobs that like one person has, you know? Um, I don't know.
I think the human element stories are really interesting. Hmm.
(49:25):
That's a good question. I also feel like, um, Alaska has a really, um,
vibrant drag scene, especially compared to like a lot of other cities. Um, and we've had,
I think several Queens have auditioned for RuPaul. I don't know if they ever,
we have never had a Queen from Anchorage on RuPaul, but there was, um, someone recently who was on
(49:48):
Boulay Brothers, Titans. Okay. Show. Um, so, so that's one that I'll cover in a little bit.
Something that isn't the current landscape of shows, right? Like, it's like, what are we not
highlighting right now? You know, like, probably some, it would be cool to actually show
(50:10):
some indigenous life, um, from people that is, um, that is, um, that is, um,
it would be cool to actually show some indigenous life, um, from people that is not,
you know, white people behind the camera being like, this is indigenous life. Um,
(50:34):
yeah. And then maybe, yeah, something. Yeah. That sounds good. Yeah. That would be my show.
Do you think that there is room or interest in an Alaska reality TV show that doesn't have to do
(50:56):
with the outdoors and, you know, takes place within a city like Anchorage or Fairbanks or Juneau?
Totally. Yeah. No, I think that there's a lot of room for that. I we've, there's definitely
already shows that, you know, the, the nature of the outside, isn't the main element. Um,
(51:19):
there was a TLC dating show that I watched called Alaska women looking for love. Um,
they got all these women from Kodiak, which they were not all women from Kodiak. Um, but like the
pitch was like multiple of them were like from the Valley, but they were like, we're going to
take these six women to Miami and they're going to find their love, which yeah, we're going to
(51:43):
Miami and find it. Yeah. Okay. We're going to find her husband in Miami, but, um, cause that's
where we always go. Um, like what, who pitched this? Um, but like the whole, yeah, the whole
thing, it's like, it's just about like how the guys in Alaska are so this, and so this, and it's
very hyperbolic in that sense too, but it's like no Alaskan guys ever planned dates. It's like,
(52:07):
okay. Like I know most of them are bad, but damn, like, um, so it's, it's always interesting when
they have something that, you know, that isn't the main focus. Um, but still the focus,
while that show isn't it's nature, it's outside. It is every other sentences. Cause we're from
(52:29):
Alaska. Like these women went to Miami and the producers made them bring their extra tufts.
They have extra tufts on the beach. Cody, what is going on? Like in Miami,
they made them go to the club and extra tufts. That's what do you call it? When you get like
shamed, when you get into a sorority or a frat, like that's what I'm hazing. Like they literally
(52:52):
got hazed. Like I was like, Oh my gosh. I don't know. It's just, I, I, I think that those are
always so interesting too, but like there is still this element of like, because Alaska,
you know, like it's like, and, and you can tell, I feel like really when the
producers are pushing it so hard that like, like the conversations are just
(53:18):
like, it's like, we get it. Oh my gosh. Like it was enough to where I should have like had a
counter for how many times they mentioned they were from Alaska in the show. But
yeah, like there's definitely, you know, that the,
it does, it comes up in different ways. Yeah. It's like the, because Alaska, like I think the other,
(53:40):
the other show that I watched that was very much like that was Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives.
Because Guy has been up here a few times before and it was like in Juneau, because you can only
get here by cruise ship or plane or, you know, like just the, like even that kind of thing is
just, yeah. So your show would not do any of that stuff? No, I hope not. Watch it. Do all that stuff.
(54:06):
No, I second season, the first season I'll get paid.
Second season, the first season I'll get paid.
No, exactly. So Alaska has always been a place outsiders project their fantasies onto,
you know, from Jack London to now reality television. How did these shows fit into that
(54:32):
longer tradition? I feel like, you know, the most accurate thing about all of these shows
is the scenery. Like it's, you know, for the most part, it's like, you can't really, I mean,
they can, but like drone footage is drone footage. Like it's like, okay, that's a shot of Alaska.
That's also another shot of Alaska. But I think the, it just overall, it is, you know,
(55:03):
kind of just puts a stain on like what life actually is like up here or just, you know,
it's not, it's that fun mirror again, right? Like it's, you're looking at it, but you're not
actually seeing what you're looking at. You're looking at like a distorted view of it.
And I think some of them, you know, like Animal Planet is not nearly as good as Nat Geo or,
(55:28):
you know, Discovery is not nearly as good as that kind of thing. But I think for the most part,
it's maybe one of those things that we'll look back on and it's like, what's with this fascination
for, you know, for remoteness, for being alone, for having no one around? Like what is the,
(55:49):
what, where does that desire or the interest of that come from? Right? Like, it's like just
people being in cities and they're like, I just need to go back to my, like, I don't know. Like,
it's like that photo of like the werewolf, like ripping his shirt off. They're just like,
I just need to like go live in the woods. Like, it's like, I just need to be alone. Like,
(56:10):
what's the, yeah. I think it's, you know, you can take it, it's very much take it with a grain
of salt. It's, you can look and see that there are instances of truth, but like overall it's
factually, you know, a fail. It's not, you know, it's not like you would
(56:35):
yeah. Put that same exact thing on for, you know, educational purposes. Cause again,
reality TV is not meant to be educational, but there are elements in which it can be.
I think reality television is often treated as disposable entertainment.
Do you think it deserves more serious analysis?
(56:58):
Absolutely. I think that it's really easy to kind of, you know, just watch these people and be like,
oh, they're so silly. I would never do that. Or, you know, it's really easy to
watch something from the comfort of your home. And to be fair, I, you know, people who apply
for reality TV are a lot braver than me. I've never applied. So I, the, the concept of strangers
(57:22):
perceiving me on that kind of scale is like enough that I'm like, actually no, but I think, you know,
there is a reason why there are hundreds of shows in Alaska that are set in Alaska that,
you know, have a theme of Alaska. It's obviously like a captivating subject for audiences,
you know, like they're not just revisiting the same thing over and over because it's not working.
(57:45):
Like there's, there's obviously a, you know, a method to the madness going on there, but I,
I definitely think so. I, I think it's something that is really easy to kind of dismiss as being,
you know, background noise, but there's lots of substance to these things. It's just kind
of wading through all of the, the, the, the fodder to get to the substance, I guess.
(58:09):
Well, Sam, those are all the questions I have for you. I want to thank you for your time and
for talking with me about Alaska reality TV. Thank you. That was so fun. I could do that all day.
(58:38):
For more information about the Anchorage Museum, visit anchoragemuseum.org.
This podcast was produced by me, Cody Liska, for the Anchorage Museum,
with additional help from Julie Decker.
(58:59):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
(59:38):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
I think that it's really easy to kind of, you know, just watch these people and be like,
(00:18):
oh, they're so silly.
I would never do that.
Or, you know, it's really easy to watch something from the comfort of your home.
And to be fair, I, you know, people who apply for reality TV are a lot braver than me.
I've never applied.
So I, the, the concept of strangers perceiving me on that kind of scale is like enough that
I'm like, actually, no, but I think, you know, there is a reason why there are hundreds of
(00:43):
shows in Alaska that are set in Alaska that, you know, have a theme of Alaska.
It's obviously like a captivating subject for audiences, you know, like they're not
just revisiting the same thing over and over because it's not working.
Like there's, there's obviously a, you know, a method to the madness going on there, but
I definitely think so.
(01:06):
I think it's something that is really easy to kind of dismiss as being, you know, background
noise, but there's lots of substance to these things.
It's just kind of wading through all of the fodder to get to the substance, I guess.
That was Sam Davenport and she writes the AKIRL newsletter.
(01:28):
It dissects Alaska reality television as entertainment and as a cultural lens that shapes how Alaska
is perceived from the outside.
An idea often signaled right from the start in show titles filled with buzzwords like
wild survival and frontier.
(01:49):
As if there's a checklist for how Alaska gets branded and sold.
She writes about the manufactured drama, the narrative structure, the way reality TV can
feel like a funhouse mirror, recognizable, but distorted.
And yet within that distortion, there are moments of truth.
(02:13):
Shows like Deadliest Catch have introduced millions of viewers to the commercial fishing
industry, offering glimpses into lives they might otherwise never encounter.
There's a reason people keep watching these reality shows about Alaska.
There's a fascination with remoteness, solitude, escapism, and the idea of living outside the
(02:38):
noise.
But Sam also looks at what gets left out of these shows.
The recurring image of Alaska as an empty, unpeopled wilderness erases the Alaska Native
communities who have lived on and stewarded this land for thousands of years.
(03:00):
She points to how exaggeration, assumption, and spectacle can flatten the complexity of
a place into something consumable, and how that flattening has consequences.
Some shows approach that responsibility with more care than others, but the broader pattern
(03:21):
of Alaska as novelty, extremity, and myth persists.
From fishing boats, to gold mines, to even dating shows, the state has become a stage
where outsiders project their fantasies.
And what Sam's newsletter does is turn that image back onto itself, reflecting both Alaska
(03:45):
and the assumptions and expectations of the people watching it.
So here she is, Sam Davenport.
Welcome to Chatter Marks.
A podcast of the Anchorage Museum, dedicated to exploring Alaska and the circumpolar North
(04:08):
through the creative and critical thinking of ideas, past, present, and future.
My name is Cody Liske, and I'll be your host.
After watching and dissecting so many of these shows, what do you think is the biggest
(04:32):
misconception about Alaska that reality TV keeps reinforcing?
I think it just is, it's very much this like white colonizer mindset of like, it's rugged.
It's the last frontier.
No one lives here.
Like it's very like, yeah, we are the first people ever to be on this land.
(04:55):
And it's like, okay, we know that's not true.
Like, let's, you know, take a step back and like actually look at that.
I think just the, yes, obviously Alaska is remote and there are some really cool parts
of Alaska and its remoteness that do make for interesting TV.
But also I think when you get to a place so small, you know, you're kind of like people,
(05:21):
when you go into a town of like 60 people or whatever, and you have a camera crew, like
it's obviously gonna, you know, kind of alter everyone's perception or kind of how they're
acting and things.
But I think Alaska for a lot of people is like a lifetime destination.
They've never been, you know, like we were chatting about before.
Alaska reality TV is really big on Reddit.
(05:43):
And it's a really big common theme of people to be like, you know, I've never been to Alaska,
but I watch all these reality shows.
And I'm really into the Alaska, like the theme of Alaska reality TV.
So like I'll find these posts of people talking about how they go through, you know, all these
shows and they compare kind of in show to show of like what feels more authentic, what
(06:06):
is more authentic, what is like fodder and production, you know, drama made up.
So like, I think one of the things that's really interesting about all these different
shows is for the most part, they come from like a few networks, you know, like there's
Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, you know, Nat Geo.
(06:28):
You've got all of the kind of like staples.
And obviously some of them generally skew a lot more sensational than others.
I would say Discovery Channel is way more sensational.
Like the other things that Discovery has on their channel includes like 90 Day Fiancé
and stuff like that.
Okay.
So like just to kind of give you like an idea of like what their, what other audience they're
(06:52):
bringing in, which I love 90 Day Fiancé, there's no, you know, I get it.
But then like...
Yeah, not throwing shade.
No shade.
No.
Yeah.
But then there's like Nat Geo, which is like Port Protection Alaska.
And like, yes, there is like added drama, but it's like, it's not to the extent of it
being like scripted or fake or like criticized for that.
(07:14):
It's like, it's like, oh no, there's a bear.
What are we going to do about the bear?
It's like they're taking, like they have situations that are happening in the town of Port Protection.
That's the, the show is about a place called Port Protection Alaska.
I kind of assumed it was about protecting ports of Alaska.
Okay.
Okay.
(07:35):
But...
It sounds like that.
Yes, it does.
So it's like all these shows too, they have like, it's like a checklist of like what you
need in the name.
Like you have to have the name Alaska or Wilderness or Wild or Survival or, you know, like it's
all of these shows are really like kind of, they all follow this like theme of like interest
(08:00):
of people grabbing people who have never been here before maybe, or that have this, you
know, really idolized view of Alaska through reality TV or through stories that their family
has told them from visiting Alaska or, you know.
And a lot of times not, you know, not everyone, but a lot of people who come up here that
(08:22):
are tourists are coming up on, you know, cruise ships.
So they're kind of getting like a really distinct, specific view of the state.
It's not necessarily what, you know, it's like, it's very...
Curated.
Very curated.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Like it's very, it's very like with a magnifying glass in certain places, but it's like, you
kind of like really gloss over a lot of other spots in the state, but yeah.
(08:46):
And I don't know, I think that also just kind of like feeds, like all of these shows really
just are the content machine that keep feeding also the, like the travel industry.
Like I don't know, it's really interesting seeing all of these shows too.
One that I was watching the other day, the great Alaska food race, food truck race.
(09:09):
Yeah.
So they had these seven teams of people in the first year of COVID.
It's like, they start filming in like October, 2020 and they're like driving food trucks
around.
They take them to Talkeetna.
Like, they're like, there's no one here.
It's a dead town.
It's like, whose idea of a show is this?
But interspersed in between this like cooking show that like is kind of like, like, okay,
(09:33):
I guess like you were trying to make a season work.
I get that.
It's like also parading around to be this weird, like Alaska destination show.
So like they have challenges in each episode, but all of the challenges were very like over
the top Alaska themed that like from other seasons, I don't think they're like that.
(09:55):
So to go get their seed money, which is like the money that they used to go to the grocery
store to get their supplies to go cook.
They're like, oh, we have to go and go get chaga out of the woods.
But they're not actually getting chaga.
They're just snowshoeing two buckets of chaga that have already been harvested.
(10:16):
And the seed money is like in the bucket.
So I'm like, okay, so they're not harvesting chaga.
And then like, they like, okay, that's fine.
But like, what are we doing?
Literally one of the women like got frostbite.
I was like, what is happening?
The other one, they're in Seward.
They have to go gold panning for gold.
And they bring out this dude named Prospector Joe or whatever the hell his name is.
(10:38):
Like Prospector Dave, like he didn't even have a last name.
His first name was Prospector.
And I was like, literally they were like, we got to pan for gold and you got to go get
your gold and then you can get your seed money.
It's like, what?
I thought we were, what is this?
We're a food truck show.
It was just so like, I had to like go back.
Because I was like, did I put something else on?
(11:00):
Like did Hulu just automatically start on a different show?
It sounds like Yukon Cornelius from the Red Nose Reindeer cartoon way back.
Exactly.
And even that, like, it's like, okay, what if we go to Alaska and we see Prospector Dave
or whatever?
(11:21):
Like that is a fictional, yeah, sorry.
It's just so stupid.
Like that kind of thing.
And this was filmed in 2020.
You know what I mean?
Like this is just like very much like feeding that like, yeah, the Prospector, the like
sourdough, like it's very much like, yeah, it was trying to like merge multiple shows
(11:45):
in one kind of thing.
It's like this meets this also with this, like.
Yeah.
So Deadliest Catch has been on the air for nearly two decades now.
Why do you think it's lasted so long?
Deadliest Catch is such an interesting one because, you know, the fishing industry, commercial
(12:10):
fishing, it is really dangerous.
And it's something that not a lot of people outside of Alaska, unless you come up here
and fish in the summers, you know, before that show you really knew about.
And with those kinds of shows, you are, you know, showing a view into what that life is
like.
And it is super intense and crazy.
(12:34):
And those gravitate towards people because they are knocking those things where it's
like Alaska is wild, but it's also like you have the human element of people that you
care about.
You have, you know, the drama, the life on the line, like the stakes are real.
(12:56):
Your actual lives are on the line.
You know, it's not like we're driving our food trucks and, oh no, the food truck broke
down.
Like it's, these are two different things, you know, on the scale.
So like it's one thing to like break down on the side of the road.
It's another thing to like have a vessel like submerged and, you know, like capsized or
(13:16):
whatever.
So it kind of goes back a little bit to what we were talking about with like the travel
industry and all these things.
Like I always wonder about how connected like the seafood industry is to like Deadliest
Catch, you know, like how that has impacted like Alaska seafood sales.
Like was that, like, I don't know, that's something that I really want to get into and
(13:38):
kind of look into when I start writing about that show because I think a lot of people
look at reality TV and they might scoff or like be like, I don't watch reality TV.
And I think it's a really big lens that people don't really assume that they're watching.
But it might be considered reality TV.
Like I wrote about Antiques Roadshow and like some might not think that that's reality TV,
(14:03):
but it is like there is a human element.
Those humans are not like rehearsed.
Like those are, you know, those are authentic conversations and things that are happening.
The stakes are a lot lower, you know.
It's like, does my grandma's heirloom, you know, cost $500 or $5,000?
It's not like, you know, again, capsizing a boat, but like there are stakes.
(14:24):
There's the pressure, like the human element of the story that kind of, you know, gravitates
to people.
But yeah, I think one thing too that I've really, watching reality TV is like, obviously
there's all these things that are very sensationalized.
Like yes, the sensationalist can still exist, but there can also be truth to what they're
(14:52):
saying.
And I'm not in terms of truth and like, we should be like, yes, Alaska is so wild, so
interior.
But like the substance, I guess.
So for the food truck race was just like listening to it yesterday, I watched, it was like a
six episode show or season.
So I just kind of like blew through it.
(15:14):
And I remember I was like, we have like a little kitchen living room that's like all
in the same space.
So like I was doing dishes, but I couldn't see the TV, but I was still listening.
And they were on the Palmer episode and they were talking about all these extremes and
how they have all this large produce.
And they were like, we, Palmer grows everything.
They grow cabbage, they grow broccoli, they go grow cantaloupe.
(15:36):
And I go, they don't grow cantaloupe.
No, they don't.
And I like scoffed.
Yes, they do.
So like, I don't know, like things like that, that kind of like surprised me where it's
like, I've lived here my whole life.
I'm wrong often.
But like even being like, I was like, no, there's no way that we grow cantaloupe here.
Yes, we do.
And we have like pretty sizable records for like 60 something pound cantaloupes.
(16:02):
But like things like that, that kind of just like lead you down a little rabbit hole or
kind of getting into like, I was reading for probably 30 minutes last night about like
how to grow melons in Alaska and what to do with the soil and things.
And it's like, yeah, I don't know.
I think the fun thing that I like about reality TV is that it just leads you down these weird
wormholes that you wouldn't think about otherwise, you know?
(16:25):
And were you doing that before you started this newsletter?
Were you watching these shows and also kind of fact-checking them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I feel like, you know, I've always loved reality TV.
I feel like I've also just been that person that, you know, being a writer slash former
(16:47):
journalist slash someone who's just nosy, like, you know, you just like, like, it's
like by curiosity will be the best of me, you know?
So it's like, I'm going to go figure that out.
Like I will be the questioner on that or if, you know, someone else has probably asked
that question.
So let's go find if there's an answer.
And I don't know, I've always definitely done that and I've always loved reality TV.
(17:09):
I definitely feel like the fact-checking and kind of like, I don't know about that has
always been part of it, but having a newsletter to write about certain things is really fun
because I can just get really in the weeds on things.
But yeah, I like, I remember this was like 10 years ago now.
So Catfish, the TV show that MTV did for 10 plus years, they came to Alaska to film and
(17:37):
they went to Kodiak specifically.
And at the time I had a friend that worked for Raven Alaska, which is no longer a thing.
Rip Raven.
And my friend texted me because she knew I watched Catfish and said, hey, I'm not supposed
to tell you this, but Niamh Shulman and Max and the whole cast and like crew of Catfish
(17:58):
are coming through tomorrow through Anchorage to go to Kodiak.
And they're coming back two days later because she worked there and could see their flights.
And I was like, oh my gosh, I should like, you know, go meet him.
Like that never happens or whatever.
Because like, what is a 19 year old?
Also this is like one of those things that I tell and I'm like, you dumb, dumb, dumb.
(18:21):
Like, why did you?
Like my brain was not fully formed.
Like, oh my, like, I like, I like tell this story.
I'm like, I'm also rolling my eyes.
So like, for what it's worth, like, girl, goodbye.
So social anxiety feared me.
So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to the airport and just run into him because
(18:45):
this is duh.
Um, cause that's what you do in Anchorage when it's like April and there's nothing to
do.
So I'm like in the airport and I like see him and I just like walked over and said hi,
can I get a photo?
And he like smiled and was, he was nice enough.
Like it was, it was fine.
It wasn't like a bad interaction.
Like it was, it was funny if anything.
(19:06):
Um, and I got a photo with him and that was really it.
And then I remember being like, oh, I wonder when the episode will come out.
And it wasn't that the episode was like wrong.
Like it didn't have any factual inaccuracies, but it was again, very like flalala drama.
Like it was like, oh, we're going to Kodiak.
So remote.
(19:27):
We've never been to Kodiak before.
And we're going to an island off the coast of Alaska.
Like it was like, we've never gone to these extremes before.
Like it was like, even on a show that like the purpose is not focused anything in Alaska,
you know, even that element of like, we're going to, I think in one of, in that episode,
(19:50):
Max, the other host of the time says something like, it's hard to believe that this is America,
you know, like even like, it's like, oh my God.
Okay.
Like, it's like, really?
It's hard to believe that Kodiak is America.
There's trucks and American flags everywhere, but okay.
I don't know about Kodiak being so different from all of America, but like, it's just like
that kind of thing, you know, it's very like hyperbolic.
(20:13):
It's so hyperbolic.
Thank you.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's very, it has to be all, all the eggs in the basket kind of thing.
Like it's so extreme, so savage.
When you turn on an Alaska reality television show, what hooks you?
You know, what makes you think like, oh, this is interesting.
(20:36):
Like this might be a good one.
I think what draws me to certain Alaska reality shows, I, not that I don't appreciate the
sensationalism, but I do think that that kind of like pushes me away a little bit because
it's like, okay, how real are we going to make this?
(20:59):
Or is it the whole thing going to be?
We're so wild.
We're so remote.
Everything is so hard, you know?
Whereas like, there's other things that are real interest, human interest stories that
I think are interesting, like port protection.
They are talking about getting a new water heater.
(21:19):
So it's like the process of getting a water heater onto this island and like things that
are like, yes, real world, but like do grab your attention in that way because it's like
whether, whether the camera crew's there or not, they're going to get that water heater,
you know, figured out and going and all that stuff.
But like, I think even with Alaskan Bush people, a big gripe about that one is that
(21:45):
like, it feels very like they set up the cameras and they're like, okay, go, you know, like,
it's not like people are living their lives and the cameras are just there.
I think the, you can really see when stuff is performative.
And one thing that I noticed a lot too is, and I think it's happening more in newer shows,
(22:08):
like it definitely happens in older shows, but I feel like I've noticed it's like an
editing technique in newer shows is it's called a Franken dub.
I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically like when you have like someone's
like audio.
So it's like you're showing a scene and you hear someone talking and it just sounds kind
of funky.
It's because they've gotten like two or three different audio clips and like cut them together
(22:30):
to make them say something that they're not really saying.
Yeah.
And that's just always a weird one because like, once you hear it, it's like, I feel
like when you read AI, like, it's like, it's kind of hard to like unsee it.
Like, it's like, it's one of those where it's like you hear it and you're like, Oh, that
was that, you know?
But I feel like that's more common in documentaries as well.
(22:53):
Now where I work in audio every single day, I'm listening to an editing
audio weekly.
And so my ear is attuned to that.
And so when I'm watching a documentary, I can tell when they cut someone off mid sentence
(23:18):
on like an S and that S has a hard stop.
And then what they do is they turn up the music to try to conceal it.
But I'm like, I know what you guys just did.
Like, yeah.
And, and then I always wonder, I mean, I don't use it because I don't have to, but what's
so weird is like, I also know how to make that softer.
(23:43):
So it's like, okay, two questions there.
It's like, what's the rest of that sentence is probably the most important, like journalistically,
like what's the, what, where was that going?
Was it part of the same question that was asked by the interviewer or part of the same
thought process?
Also, don't you guys have enough money for a better editor?
(24:08):
No, exactly.
Like, it's so frustrating when you're like watching something and they're like, I think
the worst part about talking to Cody, like, it's like such an, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, it's like, oh, okay.
That was obviously someone in post that was like, oh shit, we need you to say these three
lines or whatever.
Right.
Like, we need you to get this like phrase so we can like cut together how this scene
(24:31):
is or how, and those are obviously more, you know, reality heavy shows, but.
And how do you, how do you feel about that?
I mean, you, I met you as a journalist and I feel like that, that integrity just doesn't
go away.
I don't, I don't believe it does to anybody who was a journalist, you know, you, you are
(24:51):
attracted to truth telling.
And when you hear that type of stuff, I mean, it goes so much against the grain of journalism.
Yeah.
Like it must, you know, must make you feel a certain way.
Yes.
No, I do not like it.
(25:12):
No, it's as the three-year-old, I mean, he says, I do not like it.
It's, I, I, so, you know, you've interviewed plenty of people before.
One common thing is you're not necessarily cleaning up a quote, but you're shortening
a quote.
Like me, I'm using a lot of ums, wells, things like that.
(25:34):
So you can use, what is it?
Your three dots in basic.
Oh my God.
I just had a baby.
Okay.
Basically you can like shorten a quote by adding three dots and like taking part of
the quote out.
Ellipses.
Yeah.
Ellipses.
(25:54):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you.
So, and those are, those are things that as a reader you do see in the text, you know?
Yeah.
You can see the three dots and you can kind of insinuate that like, okay, maybe they were
saying something in between here that just, we're trying to get to the point faster, you
know?
And sometimes I think it's like that with reality TV where it's like, did they have
(26:15):
someone just rambling in the studio and they're trying to get their minute cut down to, you
know, 30 seconds or whatever.
And they're just kind of like trimming those bits.
But it's still, you know, as a viewer, as a listener, you don't know that they're doing
that or that is what they're doing because it's not shown to you, right?
There's not that visual of like, there's an ellipses here or whatever.
(26:37):
So I don't know.
I've always thought it's weird.
It's definitely a thing in, you know, I think in more recent shows where contestants on
these shows will be like, I didn't say that.
Like, which I think kind of is more, I would be, I don't know, like I'm sure the packet
that you sign or the forms that you go on these shows is, you know, multiple inches
(27:00):
thick.
Like I'm sure it's insane, but I'm sure there's some weird autonomy feeling of, you know,
like watching a show that you like have a vested interest in and you're like, whoa,
that's not what I said.
Like, I don't know.
I'm sure that's super, like I'd love to like, yeah, I'm really interested in like talking
to more people who have been on these reality TV shows too.
(27:23):
Cause I don't know.
I think like, yeah.
What was your, like, what were, what was their perception of going on the show versus what
was the reality?
And like, yeah, I think that, yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I think that would be really interesting.
I think about it the same way I would, I'm looking forward to that newsletter.
You know, when you are able to chat with somebody about their experience and then their experience
(27:48):
on the show, I should say.
And then the separate experience of watching themselves on the show.
Totally.
I bet it feels for me, it would feel, I would never do it.
So it would feel, it'd feel kind of weird and gross and eerie.
But I think that if, if I wanted to do it, I would also think it's eerie because it's
(28:12):
like watching you, but not you.
Yes.
And even if you totally, and I feel like even if you're not trying to, everyone is putting
on some facade to an extent, like you are aware that there are cameras in the room.
You know what I mean?
You're being filmed.
You probably are not being your 100% unfiltered.
(28:33):
Like you do have this like, yup, I should maybe, you know, watch what it, not every,
oh, that's not always true.
There's some insane people on reality TV, but you know, for the, I do think for the
most part, people have that stop where they're like, oh, actually there are four cameras
on me right now, you know?
But yeah, I always am curious.
(28:55):
Like people are like, what show would you go on?
You know?
Or like, I always ask people that, you know, like what's there?
Cause there's just everything.
And what show would you go on?
I, so for a while I was like, I could do Survivor.
And then I was like, you're insane.
That was when I was, I was literally like nine months pregnant and I was like, I should
(29:18):
apply for Survivor.
And my husband was looking at me like, hey, can you have this baby first?
Like, hey, you're like freaking me out a little bit.
Like, to be fair, when I was pregnant, I had like really, really horrible nausea.
So I was on the couch a lot.
So I literally binged all 49 seasons of Survivor in like, in like nine months.
(29:38):
Yeah.
So I was like, it's like a concern.
Thank you.
And everyone was like, hey, Cleen, you good?
I'm like, I'm great.
And we're watching 50 now and it's awesome.
And, but for the longest time I was like, I could do this.
Which, no, I do not think I could.
(30:01):
I think my answer has since changed.
I don't think that I could be like on the beach, just eating, drinking coconut water
for like 26 days.
I think that sounds horrible.
I think my social game would be pretty good.
And that's about it.
I don't think I would be good in challenges.
I think I would be pretty good on something like Big Brother or The Traitors where you're
(30:23):
in a house and you do not have to worry about like survival.
Like you can just play the social game, you know?
Yeah.
I think I would be good at a social strategy kind of game.
Like The Traitors is one that has been pretty popular lately that is like, it's basically
like the game of Mafia in TV version is kind of how I describe it to people.
(30:43):
So it's like, you have the Mafia and you have to figure out who they are.
Like, it's like you have The Traitors and you have to figure out who they are.
So some people are like lying and you have to figure out who the liars are.
So those are always kind of like fun and intriguing to me.
But, you know, I've never actually applied to be on a show.
Like I've gone and looked at the like, what are they looking for submissions and stuff,
(31:03):
but never applied.
(32:13):
What do you think Alaska reality TV reveals about what audiences in the lower 48 want
to believe about wilderness and independence?
I think that this constant need of being remote, being rural, being alone, you know, it's
(32:42):
enticing and interesting as a viewer in any aspect, right?
Like you can, it can be the show alone, but it could even be, you know, the subjects in
Alaska specifically that are captivating to people.
I think, I didn't mention it earlier, but like talking about like this reality TV boom
(33:04):
and stuff with like Deadliest Catch.
And I think, I don't think they were the sole reason, but I do think the Palins had a lot
to do with that of just kind of like Sarah Palin having her own show and then Bristol
Palin being on Dancing with the Stars multiple times.
Todd, I think also was on a show.
And then Levi was like pitched for a show.
(33:24):
Like, I think even just, I don't know, like the, I think, you know, pop culture there
in, you know, culturally, we as audiences find a family or people that are interesting.
And Sarah was a great example of that in the 2010s because she had just done this campaign,
(33:50):
you know, nationally, no one really knew her before.
And then it was like, who's this mama bulldog lipstick wearing, whatever her hockey phrase
thing is that, you know, she always would say.
And it was like, well, let's get to know her.
And I don't know, that was just like, even just the Palin pipeline of like all of these
(34:12):
shows and all of this interest in even Wasilla, you know, I was reading an article that Susanna
Caldwell had written for ADN like 13 years ago or something.
And it was talking about kind of like the Alaskafication of reality TV.
And like what people are looking for, you know, when they're watching these shows.
(34:33):
And it's like something, you know, a little bit of escapism, I think, like this, like
wanting to, like, what would that be like?
And I do see on Reddit quite a bit, like people talking about, like, I wish I could move to
Alaska.
Like, I, you know, dreamed my whole life about living in Alaska and all these things, which
is always just, you know, someone from here is just such a, grass is always greener.
(34:56):
Like, I love it here, obviously.
But like, it's, yeah, it's like, come on up, like, I don't know, like, yeah, but I think
even just like the painted portrait that people have of what Alaska is, is like, you know,
you get a little bit closer and it's like, you know, you see a little scuffs in there
or whatever.
But I think you can really tell when someone is intentional about the shows and the work
(35:21):
that they're doing.
It goes a long way when someone from the cast or someone from the crew is from Alaska, you
know, like you can, you can tell when there is that Alaskan element in that Alaskan, like,
we ran this by someone that lives there, kind of, you know.
And I think that separates some of the better shows from some of the worst shows, you know,
(35:46):
like you can, for the most part, like if you're looking for it, you, you can find it.
Like if you're looking for it, you, you can see the shows that are like, oh, we need to
add in X, Y, and Z to kind of like fill out this plot point versus they're doing their
lives with or without a camera.
Whereas like this scene may not happen if there wasn't a camera up to actually like
(36:11):
record it, you know.
You know, these shows often frame Alaska as a place people escape to rather than a place
people are from.
How does that framing erase the stories of people who have lived there for generations?
(36:34):
Oh, I mean, I feel like so much of reality TV is this, you know, I think I said it at
the beginning of this, colonizer white mindset of the harsh beauty, the extreme of nobody
being here.
And it's like, that alone is, you know, erasure of indigenous people that have stewarded this
land for thousands of years, you know, in whether or not it's intentional, it doesn't
(36:58):
really matter.
It's still, you know, fact that that is not truth, you know, like it's these wide assumptions
and, you know, hyperbolic statements are, they are damaging.
And it's one of those things that you can tell the shows that try to do it with more
care versus the ones that, you know, have the crazy narrator that's going to have his
(37:24):
checklist of Alaska and all of these, you know, crazy buzzwords to make it seem so crazy
and so cool.
But I don't know.
I think that I'm really looking forward to Life Blows Zero, First Alaskans for that,
because I feel like the TV that I've watched so far, you know, isn't representing Alaska
(37:45):
native life at all.
It's very, I mean, even Antiques Roadshow, like that was a really interesting one because
like there were a few people that they had on there that were indigenous folks that had
like heirlooms from their family or, you know, things that had been passed down.
But there were also, there was a woman that was like, had this gorgeous Chilkat blanket
(38:10):
that she was like, this hung in our living room for 40 years.
And it was like a children's blanket.
They had no idea what it was, you know, like, and that's fine.
But like, it's also just kind of like, like that, those episodes weren't weird to watch,
but were kind of like weird to write about because it was like, I don't know, I remember
going to Antiques Roadshow when they filmed and it was at the Alaska Native Heritage Center.
(38:36):
And, you know, they're sorting you by the items that you have.
So you'll go up in line to a certain appraiser who specializes in that thing.
And we had like a chair, so we were in furniture and then art, so somewhere else.
But I remember the Alaska Native section was literally like, that line was miles long.
And it was predominantly that line was filled with white people, you know what I mean?
(39:01):
And a lot of those people had ivory, you know, those people had items that they could not
legally even sell.
Like, I remember seeing a dude with baleen and, you know, to be fair, maybe he wasn't,
like, I don't know, like, I don't want to like pass judgment.
He appeared to be a white man holding this piece of baleen.
And I don't know, even just that, you know, it's like,
(39:25):
the idea of, like, Antiques Roadshow coming to Alaska.
So it's like, well, let's get out all of my, you know, native wares and see how much they
are.
Like, I understand wanting to see the value in something.
But also it's like this weird, it was this almost gamification of it, right?
It's not, it's really not as authentic coming from this white woman who, like, had this
(39:51):
blanket rolled up in her basement for 30 years, because, you know, she didn't know
what it was, and she didn't want to, you know, damage it, which I totally, I guess that's,
I don't know, it's hard, right?
Exactly.
It kind of is like, it's this question that I don't totally know the answer to yet, I
guess, in terms of, like, it is quite damaging.
And how do you change that?
(40:12):
Just obviously getting more people in front of and behind the lens that are not white
and that have, you know, different perspectives and values of, like, how we could do these
things.
But, yeah, I think there's a lot of education in that situation where, you know, that could
(40:33):
hopefully fix that understanding of these traditional garments, traditional pieces that
are meant to continue to be experienced, rather than, you know, stuffed away in a garage
or an attic.
(40:53):
Yes, exactly.
And that was the thing, too.
It's like, there's, there were obviously items that certain people came on and they, you
know, I, there were plenty of things that were handled with the utmost care, you know?
But I do think there was this, you know, even just being there and with my friend who also
commented on, like, wow, look at that line.
(41:14):
Like, that's a lot of people going to get, like, their, you know, items appraised.
And I don't know, it was, yeah, it's just the, you know, a much bigger question and
pondering point of, you know, like, how do we consume media and how do we also, you know,
(41:35):
like, can you consume this kind of thing?
I don't know, ethically, but like, you know, like, you just have to watch it from a perspective
of knowing that some things are flawed, right?
Like, I, I've watched Real Housewives with people and they're like, how can you watch
this?
These women are horrible.
I'm like, exactly.
I do not watch this because I like them.
(41:55):
You know what I mean?
Like, I watch these women because they make good TV.
Like, those are not the same thing.
Do you, in your everyday life, like, if you were to encounter somebody who is, you know,
like a reality television type personality at, say, Cars, you know, you walk in and they're
(42:20):
just, you know, being a prima donna, they're, you know, loud, they are self-important.
Do you watch that?
Do you watch that?
Oh, yeah.
I would probably, I mean, I really have a hard time, like, shutting up.
So I would, I don't know, it depends.
This is a fun, like, what would you do, John?
(42:41):
John can see, like, situation.
Like, it's, depends on, like, if she's, like, if she verbally harassing the person, then
I'd probably, like, say something like, is she, she being unnecessarily, we had this
happen when we flew back from California recently.
There was a guy that was, like, being so unnecessarily, like, went up and basically
(43:02):
just started, like, harassing one of the attendants at the gate and, like, was like, I didn't
know you could just come here and, you know, scroll on your phone for 15 minutes.
Is that, where can I get a job where I can just come and scroll on my private phone for
15 minutes?
That's so cool.
It was like, what is wrong with this guy?
But anyway, long story short, he started, like, actually verbally yelling at her and
(43:24):
I was like, you're an idiot.
Like, I, I actually didn't say you're an idiot.
What did I say?
I said, what kind of man are you?
Who yells at a woman like that?
That's what I said.
But anyway, that doesn't need to, that's not here or there.
But I think for the most part, I don't know, I think, yes, it's fun to watch these things
and yes, it's entertaining.
(43:44):
But, like, if, yeah, if you were in a situation in real life and you saw something happening,
like, yeah, it's probably a lot, you know, it's different when it crosses over from the
screen to your real life.
Yeah.
Do you remember a scene or a storyline in an episode or a season of an Alaska reality
(44:07):
TV show that really hooked you?
Um, I wouldn't say it, it definitely, like, hooked me.
And I'm, it's like, it kind of started my interest into something else is, um, so I
started watching all this Survivor.
And then I was like, has there ever been anyone from Alaska who's ever played, you know, and
just kind of like going down these rabbit holes.
(44:28):
And, um, there has been someone from Alaska that has played, but she did not play in the
American version of Survivor.
She played in the Philippines version of Survivor and she actually won.
Her name is Amanda Cooley Van Cool.
That is her real name.
She lives in Fairbanks and, um, she won in like 2009 or something.
(44:49):
So it's like been a while, but, um, the, I feel like just the Survivor, um, like, um,
what's the word?
Trail that I've gone on from like watching the show to being like, oh, what are there
any people that have played from Alaska?
Um, and recently, so Survivor 50, the like 50th season is out, um, currently airing.
(45:17):
So to like kind of get people hyped up, they did a Survivor 50 idol challenge, um, which
was basically like each state on varying dates going up to the premiere, um, hid an immunity
idol in each state.
And there was a clue given out and you could go like hunt for the idol, which was kind
(45:38):
of fun.
Um, so it was fun to like watch Survivor and then have this like real world element of
like gameplay come in.
Um, we did not actually end up going idol hunting because we were in California at the
time and it was also at Chena Hot Springs.
And I was like, I don't really want to drive up to Chena, you know, with a baby, like to
(45:59):
go idol hunting.
Like I actually, it's okay.
Um, but the whole purpose is you can go get a photo with this idol and you will be entered
into like a sweepstakes and in your state.
So you're, you're against everyone else in your state.
One person will be picked and they'll be like flown to California for this, um, season
(46:19):
finale of Survivor, um, and get to like meet the cast and all this stuff, um, which is
kind of fun.
But I had done a story, um, about it a couple of weeks ago and was talking to some people
who went idol hunting and it was just, I don't know, it's, it's fun talking to people who
just like have such a strong tie to shows and, you know, things like this.
(46:42):
Like I talked to a gal who's from Fairbanks, she went idol hunting with her son in Chena
and she's, her daughter was, lives in Michigan.
Her, she had her daughter go look for the idol there and they like both submitted or
whatever.
She's like, I've watched the show since it came out in the 2000s.
Like I've applied to be on the show.
Like I, you know, like I've had like my kids apply.
(47:02):
Like it's like, this woman is like invested, you know, like it's, um, and it's fun to talk
to people that get so excited about stuff like that.
Right.
Like it's like, um, like I think she said something like this was like the show that
we watched as family growing up.
Like, you know, this was the, you know, our go-to and I don't know, like even when I was
(47:24):
doing my, my very long binge last year, um, my husband, um, would like come in during
some episodes and be like, Oh my God, that's Rupert.
Like I watched this season when I was like 12 years old or whatever, when it was on TV,
like, um, cause it's been on since 2000, you know what I mean?
So it's like, um, I dunno, there's few shows that have kind of like stood that time to
(47:48):
where it's like, have actually stayed on TV that long too, you know?
Um, and Survivor is just kind of like the, the blueprint of all of these other shows
of Alone and Outlast and Alaska Survival Challenge and stuff, you know?
So, um, it's, it's interesting kind of seeing the blueprint show and like, um,
(48:12):
thinking about like producers and people watching this and being like, okay, well, what if we got
the elements of this show and put them with the elements of this show, you know?
Like, I dunno, I just, I would love to be a fly on the wall in those kinds of conversations.
Like that stuff is always so interesting to me.
But.
If you could design a reality show that actually captured real life in Alaska,
(48:38):
what would that look like?
That's a great question. Um, hmm.
I like the ones that are like, still educational, but like,
not necessarily low stakes, but like not life or death, right? Like, I want a, like a show that is
(49:02):
the guy's job that adds how many salmon are counted, like every day in like the canine,
like who's like, I want to like see that guy's like job or something or like, I dunno, like
the odd jobs of Alaska or like the jobs that like one person has, you know? Um, I don't know.
I think the human element stories are really interesting. Hmm.
(49:25):
That's a good question. I also feel like, um, Alaska has a really, um,
vibrant drag scene, especially compared to like a lot of other cities. Um, and we've had,
I think several Queens have auditioned for RuPaul. I don't know if they ever,
we have never had a Queen from Anchorage on RuPaul, but there was, um, someone recently who was on
(49:48):
Boulay Brothers, Titans. Okay. Show. Um, so, so that's one that I'll cover in a little bit.
Something that isn't the current landscape of shows, right? Like, it's like, what are we not
highlighting right now? You know, like, probably some, it would be cool to actually show
(50:10):
some indigenous life, um, from people that is, um, that is, um, that is, um,
it would be cool to actually show some indigenous life, um, from people that is not,
you know, white people behind the camera being like, this is indigenous life. Um,
(50:34):
yeah. And then maybe, yeah, something. Yeah. That sounds good. Yeah. That would be my show.
Do you think that there is room or interest in an Alaska reality TV show that doesn't have to do
(50:56):
with the outdoors and, you know, takes place within a city like Anchorage or Fairbanks or Juneau?
Totally. Yeah. No, I think that there's a lot of room for that. I we've, there's definitely
already shows that, you know, the, the nature of the outside, isn't the main element. Um,
(51:19):
there was a TLC dating show that I watched called Alaska women looking for love. Um,
they got all these women from Kodiak, which they were not all women from Kodiak. Um, but like the
pitch was like multiple of them were like from the Valley, but they were like, we're going to
take these six women to Miami and they're going to find their love, which yeah, we're going to
(51:43):
Miami and find it. Yeah. Okay. We're going to find her husband in Miami, but, um, cause that's
where we always go. Um, like what, who pitched this? Um, but like the whole, yeah, the whole
thing, it's like, it's just about like how the guys in Alaska are so this, and so this, and it's
very hyperbolic in that sense too, but it's like no Alaskan guys ever planned dates. It's like,
(52:07):
okay. Like I know most of them are bad, but damn, like, um, so it's, it's always interesting when
they have something that, you know, that isn't the main focus. Um, but still the focus,
while that show isn't it's nature, it's outside. It is every other sentences. Cause we're from
(52:29):
Alaska. Like these women went to Miami and the producers made them bring their extra tufts.
They have extra tufts on the beach. Cody, what is going on? Like in Miami,
they made them go to the club and extra tufts. That's what do you call it? When you get like
shamed, when you get into a sorority or a frat, like that's what I'm hazing. Like they literally
(52:52):
got hazed. Like I was like, Oh my gosh. I don't know. It's just, I, I, I think that those are
always so interesting too, but like there is still this element of like, because Alaska,
you know, like it's like, and, and you can tell, I feel like really when the
producers are pushing it so hard that like, like the conversations are just
(53:18):
like, it's like, we get it. Oh my gosh. Like it was enough to where I should have like had a
counter for how many times they mentioned they were from Alaska in the show. But
yeah, like there's definitely, you know, that the,
it does, it comes up in different ways. Yeah. It's like the, because Alaska, like I think the other,
(53:40):
the other show that I watched that was very much like that was Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives.
Because Guy has been up here a few times before and it was like in Juneau, because you can only
get here by cruise ship or plane or, you know, like just the, like even that kind of thing is
just, yeah. So your show would not do any of that stuff? No, I hope not. Watch it. Do all that stuff.
(54:06):
No, I second season, the first season I'll get paid.
Second season, the first season I'll get paid.
No, exactly. So Alaska has always been a place outsiders project their fantasies onto,
you know, from Jack London to now reality television. How did these shows fit into that
(54:32):
longer tradition? I feel like, you know, the most accurate thing about all of these shows
is the scenery. Like it's, you know, for the most part, it's like, you can't really, I mean,
they can, but like drone footage is drone footage. Like it's like, okay, that's a shot of Alaska.
That's also another shot of Alaska. But I think the, it just overall, it is, you know,
(55:03):
kind of just puts a stain on like what life actually is like up here or just, you know,
it's not, it's that fun mirror again, right? Like it's, you're looking at it, but you're not
actually seeing what you're looking at. You're looking at like a distorted view of it.
And I think some of them, you know, like Animal Planet is not nearly as good as Nat Geo or,
(55:28):
you know, Discovery is not nearly as good as that kind of thing. But I think for the most part,
it's maybe one of those things that we'll look back on and it's like, what's with this fascination
for, you know, for remoteness, for being alone, for having no one around? Like what is the,
(55:49):
what, where does that desire or the interest of that come from? Right? Like, it's like just
people being in cities and they're like, I just need to go back to my, like, I don't know. Like,
it's like that photo of like the werewolf, like ripping his shirt off. They're just like,
I just need to like go live in the woods. Like, it's like, I just need to be alone. Like,
(56:10):
what's the, yeah. I think it's, you know, you can take it, it's very much take it with a grain
of salt. It's, you can look and see that there are instances of truth, but like overall it's
factually, you know, a fail. It's not, you know, it's not like you would
(56:35):
yeah. Put that same exact thing on for, you know, educational purposes. Cause again,
reality TV is not meant to be educational, but there are elements in which it can be.
I think reality television is often treated as disposable entertainment.
Do you think it deserves more serious analysis?
(56:58):
Absolutely. I think that it's really easy to kind of, you know, just watch these people and be like,
oh, they're so silly. I would never do that. Or, you know, it's really easy to
watch something from the comfort of your home. And to be fair, I, you know, people who apply
for reality TV are a lot braver than me. I've never applied. So I, the, the concept of strangers
(57:22):
perceiving me on that kind of scale is like enough that I'm like, actually no, but I think, you know,
there is a reason why there are hundreds of shows in Alaska that are set in Alaska that,
you know, have a theme of Alaska. It's obviously like a captivating subject for audiences,
you know, like they're not just revisiting the same thing over and over because it's not working.
(57:45):
Like there's, there's obviously a, you know, a method to the madness going on there, but I,
I definitely think so. I, I think it's something that is really easy to kind of dismiss as being,
you know, background noise, but there's lots of substance to these things. It's just kind
of wading through all of the, the, the, the fodder to get to the substance, I guess.
(58:09):
Well, Sam, those are all the questions I have for you. I want to thank you for your time and
for talking with me about Alaska reality TV. Thank you. That was so fun. I could do that all day.
(58:38):
For more information about the Anchorage Museum, visit anchoragemuseum.org.
This podcast was produced by me, Cody Liska, for the Anchorage Museum,
with additional help from Julie Decker.
(58:59):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
(59:38):
Chatter Mark's music is produced by Keys Open Doors.
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.