Gaza’s Warning for Humanity: Genocide Survivors Speak Out

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's happening on the ground in Gaza now is the future of a
humanity and like the use of AI,the drones.
So the drone got in my room and I everyone was leaving and I in
this moment, I I bought the blanket and myself like this.
It just couldn't shut you and like I was saying like I can't
imagine how the drone come in myroom.

(00:21):
Besides using the drones, the use of AI is very dangerous and
now we see it that it's not justabout Gaza.
Now in the UK as well, it's being used with Palantir.
AI if you have a message for theBritish people, knowing that the
same technology that killed us in Razan, the genocide that even
before is now working and managing the NHS.

(00:42):
Baby, stop talking about the weather and go stop.
This is people before they before they come to the UK and
you're not going to be able to talk about the weather.
I'm hello, Hanina, and welcome to Palestine Deep Dive.
Today I'm joined by two extraordinary guests.
Hi, I'm Hamad and Dan Abseso, 2 genocide survivors from Gaza,

(01:06):
now living in London. Tomorrow, May 15th, marks Nakba
Day, commemorating the mass expulsion of more than 750,000
Palestinians in 1948 at the hands of Zahn settler
colonialism. But for Palestinians, the Nakba
never ended. From the ongoing genocide in
Gaza to the continued colonization of the West Bank,

(01:28):
we're witnessing that catastrophe continuing to unfold
in real time today that. Obsesso is a Palestinian law
student specializing in public international law, a writer with
We Are Not Numbers and part of leading Universities Picturing
Scholasticide project documenting the educational
genocide in Gaza. Hai Muhammad is a Palestinian

(01:48):
poet and artist whose work explores memory, survival and
displacement. Her first collection, The Age of
Olive Trees, traces years of longing, witness and resistance
through poetry and art. We send our regards to Ahmed.
Today. He's on special trip to
Slovenia, advocating on behalf of his people who will be back
with us next week, inshallah. So thank you so much, Dana and

(02:11):
Taya, for joining us today. Thank you for having us.
Yeah, for sure. It's our pleasure.
So you know, today is the 78th anniversary of the Israeli
catastrophe in Nakba and displacement of the Palestinians
in 1948 that even started way before.
So as Palestinians, all of us had like multi generational

(02:33):
trauma and multi generational experiences of of Nakba and each
of us has their own stories. So could you share with us
what's your story of Nakba? I think the Nakba kind of
informed who we are because it started in 1948, but as you
said, it started way before thatand throughout living throughout

(02:55):
our entire life. Like, for example, I was born
after the the second Intifada, but that kind of shaped who I
was. And if it wasn't for the Nakba,
we wouldn't have been who we aretoday and our stories wouldn't
have fold unfolded in the way that we they are unfolding now
and the neck, but is still ongoing.
The occupation is still ongoing even now more so than before.

(03:18):
And it's just part of who we are.
And I think it is like definitive of our identity at a
certain point. Yeah, So what about you hire?
Neck but for me is US and where we are now because like we all
come here in a scholarship to study Why?

(03:40):
Because our university is bombed, our city bombed so we
don't have a choice. We forced to be here today.
So it's a start from my grandfather when he displaced
and then my dad and then me now here in London because I don't

(04:01):
have university, I don't have city more.
And it's the neckpa when it start from my grandfather and I
am the third generation now and it's I still affected where I am
now because the neckpa start andI don't know the genocide in
Gaza. How many generation will go

(04:21):
through it starting from now to the next generations?
And MacBook also for me is you know, you, it's like you'll
never have the feeling and the place of home again because I'm
here in London, my brother in Germany, my family in Gaza.

(04:42):
I don't know when I'm going to like it's not allowed to me to
go back to Gaza. And I'm don't know when I me and
my sisters and my brothers goingto sit in one table and having
one dinner if this is going to happen in our life or not.
It's all mysterious. This is the Nakba you, you don't
have the feeling of home more inyour life.

(05:04):
And it's going not in just one generation, it's going through
all the generations and that's it.
Yeah, it's very difficult. I remember when I was speaking
with my, with my family when I was young and, you know, we're
Palestinians, but being born a Palestinian does not immediately

(05:24):
make you understand the context,the politics, the, the reality
of the situation. So the first time I got to know
Nakba was it through the storiesof my parents, grandparents.
And they were always telling me like, and when I grow up, like,
I thought it again, but they were always telling me the
stories of what they left in 1948.

(05:45):
And I remember my grandmother, like my mother's sides, she was
very young at that, at that time.
And they were living in Iraq, Sweden, somewhere like New York.
And at that time, because the Israeli soldiers were not
soldiers at that time, they werelike that.
That is really zealous. Gangs were like around Iraq,

(06:07):
Sweden, and they were already massacred multiple villages and
cities around. So they had to go around and
then go back to. So they went a little bit of
north, a little bit of east and then down to to Wazza.
And her mother was pregnant in the nine months and and she had
to walk towards like the winter.It was very cold and they they

(06:27):
had to walk the whole the old way while she was like pregnant
and very tired. And through the way she she
delivered, she couldn't like shecouldn't hold it.
And they had to like spend a fewdays for her to be able to walk
with with a baby. And they built like makeshift
and something just to stay and spend the night.
And after a few nights from staying there, they woke up on

(06:50):
one day with a tent collapsed and also the baby had frozen to
death. And they always like I, I heard
the story from her like multipletimes.
It was her younger brother who was supposed to be born at that
time, Abdul Rahman. And and he was like killed as a
baby and as a child. I was always thinking how, how

(07:13):
would a baby be killed of, of cold it, it did not make any
sense to my imagination when I was young and even when I grow
up older. So what the circumstances that
caused this and then the Nakba, the things that we once I wasn't
able to imagine, once I wasn't able to, to, to live in my
memory or in my imagination. I've seen now happening and

(07:37):
growing upon people in Gaza. So what is the moment in your
life that you felt that you're exposed to the reality of us as
Palestinians, the political reality, the Nakba, all of that?
I think like continuation of what you were saying, like, yes,
we grew up hearing, for example,about the Yasin massacre, Sabra

(08:00):
and Shatila, the Tantoria. You heard all of these stories,
but you never would have like imagined that you would
experience thing experience themlike this generation and this
time. So I think my first memory of
like the thing of like what is going on, what is happening?
I was six years old during the first Israeli aggression on Gaza
in 2000 and eight, 2009. And I like at the at the

(08:23):
beginning, I like I was like, what is happening?
What do you mean? Like the schools just stopped.
Bombings were happening everywhere.
We were being displaced from ourhouse.
We had to go to my aunt's house.What is happening?
Like, I was so young, but, and Iremember during that time, of
course, there was no electricityduring the Israeli aggression.
And I was going to like a room with my cousin.

(08:47):
And then like a very close by bombing happened and like a
glass was shattered and it was like it entered into the house.
And because of like the shock, I, like my cousin and I were
just like completely silent. We couldn't talk, we couldn't
say anything. And you were six.
I was six years old. And I remember this very vividly
because I think this defines of who we are.

(09:09):
And then like my mom was like screaming like, where is that
and where is that? And I just, I couldn't talk
until like, I don't know, like after a couple of minutes, like
my cousin was like, we're here. She was like 10 years older than
I was. So like they were like so scared
and they thought like we were killed or like we got killed by
the bombing and everything that happened.
And I think after that it just kind of like your mind

(09:31):
immediately starts to wake up toeverything that is going on
around you. Yes, I was 6, but like I saw
like how everything changed. My, our school was bombed.
Places that we used to go to thestreets were like not in the
same condition as they used to be.
Like, of course, we were young and like some memories you could
not really remember, but you remember the places that you go

(09:53):
to. And then exactly.
And each each year that you grewup, you see how things are still
unfolding in like a way way in avery bad way.
And then like I remember in the 2021 ingression when like there
were massacres happening, the alcoholic massacre and then
entire family was removed from the civil registry.

(10:13):
And like you start to wake up that it wasn't just in the 1948.
This is still happening, it's continued and no one's stopping
it. What the hell is going on in
this world? What about you?
What was that? The moment, the revelation.
And when you realize that it's, it's Nakba, it's Israelis like
colonialism, we're living this. I'm like you.

(10:35):
I felt like I was. I'm hearing the first time like
there's some people like me in Gaza because all the time I was
hearing the stories from my grandfather, from my dad, from
my uncle, but I never like I believed in 100, but I like
something inside me. I can't process it.

(10:56):
Like I believe you guys, but I can't process what you're
saying. Like it's like more like fancy,
like fantasy. Fantasy.
Yeah, more like fantasy because I can't imagine this is kind of
having this world. But then when I when the
genocide come to Gaza and like we displace we live in tents, we

(11:18):
cooking in the fire, we wishing in our hands like like we I'm
not like I inherited the Akbar II'm not just here about it and
now I live it with all my body and a whole city live it now.
So we I feel like we inherit it and but it's the most crazy

(11:41):
thing Napa was before 100 years ago and it's now in the 26 and
this is still going where all the world is modern.
It's like it's the whole like how, how in where, when the
world is like this is how this is disgusting thing can happen

(12:03):
and and it's OK. I am now in London and Gaza now
they they it's pond. It's they are still strong.
Is they still starving? They they going like more than
before the beginning of the genocide.

(12:24):
Now the situation is more worst and it's OK, Everyone here, it's
OK. Yeah, like I like, it's more
silent and and I meet some people and I like, I talk to
them. And then like the most choke
moment when when I come here andI I was buying something and

(12:46):
then she told me the seller toldme where are you from?
I said I'm from Palestine. She said, where's the Palestine?
And I I felt literally someone slabbing punish me in my face.
Like like if if I lived through all this is and you have no
information about not what I lived about my country.

(13:10):
Like how how you can't be uneducated for this is the key
for this is point and I was likeI I needed 5 minutes to hold
myself because I felt she she finished me like.
Shocking how some people are living in their own world like I

(13:32):
feel they're like. Their own bubble.
Yeah, it's so, so weird because it was live streamed on TV and
like if you just scroll on any social media, you'll find it.
It requires someone intentional decision to ignore it, to not
see it. Yeah.
Otherwise there is no way to notbe able to see it.
True. I feel also it's, it's what

(13:54):
happened. It's not just about Palestine
and the land. It's like about the humanity.
Are you not human? I was in the British book award.
It's 2 days ago and I was it's the same conversation but in
another style. So I was like, she's one of the

(14:15):
writers and I she asking me, didyou get a ticket to come here?
I said I was talking to you all the time.
I'm getting schoolish here. We got we went and campaigned to
come here biometrics, Jordan, Gaza and you then you are you
hearing me? And then and then she said to
me, did you get a ticket to comehere direct?

(14:35):
And then I, I just, I stopped talking.
And then, and then Anthony was with me, my publisher, he said
to her. We can see the the photo now of
you at the ceremony here. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, he he told her like he was angry.
He told her yeah, she never leftGaza.
It's it's the first time in her in a plan.

(14:57):
It's not allowed to her to leave.
Yeah, she came here and. Combined, it was like his face
like. Yeah.
Like someone punished her. I was more angry than me.
But I stay silent because I couldn't like explain to these
people like where's Palestine did you take to get a ticket?
Some woman in the train, she told me, are you spending the

(15:18):
summer with you in the homeland?This is summer or you're not
able to go back? Like what kind of this question?
She she know about Palestine, the woman in the train because
she was talking. But but they I think they just I
don't know how they're seeing us.
Honestly, I can't but like, are you going this homeland to the

(15:40):
homeland this summer? Is this something I can't do
yet? I wish I can.
But honestly, I like, I think, yeah, some people might be still
living in their own bubble not knowing anything about
Palestine. But if you compare the situation
now with like 10 years ago. Exactly.
If you like 10 years ago you said to anyone you're from
Palestine, all that they will ask you was like Pakistan.

(16:01):
But like today when you say Palestine, some do.
But like like on the general, no, a lot of people now know
about Palestine. Like especially if you say like
from Gaza, like I always get that reaction.
Like where are you from Palestine?
Oh, where? Where in Palestine?
Gaza. Oh, so like it's like a another
case unfolding when once you sayit's Gaza and like the
solidarity that's been going on since the genocide.

(16:25):
Exactly. Maybe now it's a bit more silent
because of after the ceasefire. The spotlight is not.
Ceasefire. So-called ceasefire as you're
saying, maybe like it's a bit more silent.
We're now more on the silent killing.
We're getting killed, named, displaced, but no one really
knows the details because the attention many, like
journalists, were murdered during the genocide.

(16:48):
So the focus is not as much as it used to be, but the
solidarity is growing. And I think that's something
that's really amazing and reallypowerful in the world.
And one of the amazing stuff is that London and the UK are still
having the national marches and the marches around the UK for
now three years. So this Saturday there is the
national March in in London commemorating the the Nakba.

(17:11):
And this is important like not to have it.
To have it is good. It's not enough, but it's good.
And the continuation of it is, is very important.
But going back to speak like you've both left the genocide
and you've both have been there,and you also were displaced
inside the genocide. So could you share with us more
about your experience living in there?

(17:32):
I know it's very difficult, it'sa lot, it's very traumatic, and
I'm so sorry about that. But whatever you feel like
sharing. OK, it's very traumatic, but if
I'm smiling or laughing, that's a defense mechanism, so don't
mind. The laugh, the smile, all of
that is our defense mechanism. It's the way how we how we deal

(17:55):
with the trauma. It's the way how we hold our
tears back and how as you said it, yeah.
Resilience. Yeah.
And the resilience and smooth and to make sure that we're not
making our family exactly in a more stressful position by
seeing how difficult we are. Honestly, with the genocide, I I

(18:16):
was displaced on like the third day, like since October 10th and
until today, I've never, I didn't go back home.
Oh my God. We were displaced first from my
house because phosphorus bombs were dropped in the, in the area
and it was very dangerous to stay in there.
And there were like no Internet connections, no cellular Wi-Fi

(18:38):
or cellular data or anything. So we're completely cut off.
And the, the situation in the area that I was living in was
really, really dangerous. So we left, we went to another
area in Gaza City and it was my aunt's house.
And on the second day there, it was like around sunset and we

(18:59):
were like sitting in the in in the salon and then a bombing
happened right outside the door of the building of my aunts and
uncles house. And it was very dangerous
because my cousins were downstairs.
We were in the house so we didn't know what happened.
My aunt starts screaming like where are my children?

(19:21):
It was very horrific. And we opened the door, everyone
was running down the stairs. And then then another bombing
happened in the same spot. And it was just like complete
terror. And everyone was running down
the stairs. And I was, I think I, I had like
a panic attack at that moment. Like I was running down the
stairs like barely able to breathe, not knowing what is

(19:42):
happening. Just like praying to God that
like we, we, we survived this. And I remember going down the
stairs, I think one of the people that got like he like he
was injured with a shrapnel fromthe bombing.
He, I think he didn't realize and would like the adrenaline of
that moment. He would try to like rush up, up

(20:04):
the stairs. And he died on, on that stairs.
Oh my God. And I think they took him down
because like, when like the ambulance, it was really close
to the hospital. So like the ambulance really
came fast. And so like we walking down the,
the, the, the stairs and there was blood.
No, he passed away. He was killed and there was like

(20:27):
blood all over the place. And then two of my cousins were
injured and they were immediately transported to Shifa
Hospital. And then my other cousin came to
take us and he was like, we haveto leave like now because we
don't know what's happening. We have to go take shelter in a
hospital. And The thing is, hospital
itself was not safe. Yeah, nowhere in Gaza.

(20:47):
Was safe. Was everyone?
Exactly. Was evacuating my family?
Yes. Also live in Talihawa.
And that night there were so many bombings around the
building before our own home wasbombed.
Yeah. And then.
And then they had also to evacuate in the hospital.
It wasn't safe. Exactly.
It wasn't. Safe.
It was full of people. Yes, and injured it was, it was

(21:11):
the things, the things that you saw in the hospital.
It was that I saw in the hospital were like really,
really hard. And we had to stay like all
night there. And it was like fully packed.
Everyone was there and it was like nearly sunset.
So like you have to sunset. So I had to wait until like the
next day until sunrise. And then we were like able to go
back to my aunt's house. And on that day, at night, the

(21:35):
evacuation orders to go to the South of Gaza were issued.
And like we barely woke up and then immediately left to the
South and we were displaced in refugee camp.
Yeah, the on the so-called safe.Zone exactly.
We have killed multiple people on the way and also in the safe.
So it wasn't, it wasn't the the best experience, obviously, but

(21:59):
yeah. And I remember like on our way
to the South, it was really dangerous because like they
issued the evacuation orders. They wanted people to leave.
But at the same time they were bombing people while they were
leaving on the corridors and on the way.
So it was really dangerous. And I remember I was driving, I
was holding the steering wheel in my hand.
I was driving. I was driving and my hands were

(22:21):
like, we're like completely shaking and I was like holding
it like you. Have the car with you.
That's a huge responsibility. I know it was like my mom, my
sister and my aunt because my father passed away years ago.
So it was really hard and like Iwas like, I was just like
praying to God the entire world just like please make us like
get wherever we're supposed to go safe.

(22:42):
And we didn't know where we weregoing.
And after we got there, we stayed with our in laws and we
were displaced to different places we did.
UK should give free lessons. Because he survived the
genocide. Driving, yeah.
And yeah, it wasn't the best. And I like until we left, I left

(23:03):
to Egypt. It was, it was very horrific.
Like I left. I was, I was considered like one
of the few privileged and lucky people who left in like almost
the beginnings. I like, I lived four or five
months of the genocide, which isa lot.
It is a lot. But I think that's the point
that sometimes we forget that 4-5 months is a lot because
people have been living that fortwo and a plus years.

(23:26):
Exactly. So it's it, it is really
horrific. And I remember even on our way
to the crossing border, we were like, I was praying to God not
to travel. I was displaced, I was starved,
I was sick. I had severe pneumonia at that
time. And I was like in a really bad
shape. And the famine had already

(23:48):
started from the beginning of the genocide.
So we were already like starved.And I had lost a lot of of my
weight and everything. But I still didn't want to leave
because somehow being in Sairat was also being close to home.
And if there's a possibility of going back to Gaza City, I
wanted that. And actually, I wrote a story
about that. And we are not numbers called a

(24:10):
trip of grief. Yeah.
So it like, it captures the grief of how like it moved from
14 kilometers in Sairat to 373 kilometers when I was in Cairo
from my house. Oh my God.
And yeah, I was in Egypt for thelast year.
We'll go back to this. I'm talking about the survival
guilt and feelings coming with that.

(24:33):
But with you, Haya Haya, you actually left it throughout the
genocide. You only left less than 14 days
from the so-called against ceasefire on Ghaza.
So we've been through a lot. I don't know how much of that
you could speak about. Yeah, I think there is a moment
like it's stuck me in my mind. I can't forget it like like the

(24:56):
shouting of the women's in the morning when I was displaced in
my brother home. I woke up they said the first
thing they bombed and he placed just near next to my brother
home and I can't I can't forget the women they were shouting
about the children that called and her husband and her voice is

(25:21):
still in my in my head. It's like it's feel like it's a
movie. Even if I when I think now when
I'm in London, I think about thethings that I lived in Gaza.
I said to myself how, how, how did I live there?

(25:41):
Did I really live there? Like I can't imagine myself that
I live, I live it like I, I justsay 6-7 months and I'm saying
no, I did like I can't imagine my life in Gaza, but the life in
Gaza I lived is like 2020 years there and six months here.
It's nothing converting, but I feel like sometimes I feel this

(26:04):
is life is not existing and the the things that I lived is not
existing. Like I think no, I didn't live
that. Yeah, this is like this is
voices. If this is women, I can't get
them out of my head and the the other things that.
Take us to the beginning. So when was your first
displacement? Yeah, I it's like 3 or 4 days

(26:29):
when after 7th of October, Yeah and my brother come to to he's
married so he have another home.Yeah, so he come and you live in
Hanunes. Yep, yeah, South of yeah.
So he come to to my home where Ilived with my mum and my sister
and he said you have this displaced to my home because

(26:53):
this is not safe. And we said no, if we're going
to die, we're going to die here.We don't want to move from our
home. And then my mom said let's go,
let's go. And we said no.
And then the next morning when we when we woke up, my mother
was picking everything our clothes and important like the

(27:16):
humans. And she said to us, she's more
stubborn than us. She said to us, if you if you
didn't move now with me to your brother home, I'm not going to
talk to you all my life. So in this moment no one said
no. So we have just to leave with
her. So we left to my brother home

(27:39):
just four days after 7th October.
And then the next day they not just from being one building,
but they the whole building around my building, my family
home place is bombed. The mother's gut, she felt it.
And and I was the most one should be like I was I supposed

(28:02):
to be died because if I was in my it's because where I am
sleeping the bed, there was a column of cement.
It's just in my bed. Oh my God.
And my my whole room is outside in the street.
My office is outside in the street.

(28:22):
So and my I wrote that about that in my book.
I said that my family start calling me the alive matrix
murder, murder. So my family later they call me
the alive mate murder. Oh my God, and.
That's a very difficult way to to describe it and live with it.

(28:45):
Go on. Sorry.
It's OK, but then the other homewas also like this destruction,
but my roommate was the most one.
It's like completely damaged so and then we displaced from this
to my brother inside Hanyunis. So we the first stage in the

(29:05):
genocide, you displaced inside, but from you my home to my
brother to my auntie and then wegot went outside.
Whereas in Morassi now and my family now is displaced nearly
two years in Al Mawasi. You know, in Mawasi it's not
area that people lived in beforethe genocide.

(29:28):
So now they're living there for nearly two years.
Yeah, I was talking about the people from Hanyu and I send the
people from Rafah because all ofRafah now is evacuated.
Yeah, I remember like so. There's a roof there in the in,
in Mawasi. I remember like I'm me and my
sister loving to look to this sea from the roof and sing the

(29:50):
sunset and part. It was tragic all the time
because when you are on the roof, you sing the people.
Because my home is near the street.
They displace the way some people walk, some people with
cars, some children's holding things.
And it was all the time because in manasing it's like this and

(30:11):
people from Kanyunis, from Rafa come to Al Mawasi and people
from Kanyunis come El Mawasi, people from Gaza to El Mawasi.
And it's like this. And it's like and pull of the
people. And it's tragic because you see
all these things and, and at thesame moment I was saying the

(30:32):
people outside and I was in my social media living, it's OK,
like was saying like how like there's people here literally
dying from displacement, from Hungary, from, from the
situation. From the cold.
From the cold and people outsideliving OK, I said how people can

(30:55):
you do that? Like how can they process it and
live it? It's OK, but time is going.
And then I'm like, like I openedmy social media and I said to my
friend, this is telling my Instagram that I am not managing
this space. My friend do that because at

(31:16):
this time I said to her, I'm notgoing to go more with this.
I can't, I can't see the people outside living life, people out
inside dying and I can't like acting normal with them.
So I'm I'm not going to be in social media more.
And then she managed this space well.
Now when I am here, like it's, it's different.

(31:37):
Like I am here now and my familyis there and I have to live with
this people. I can't turn my phone off.
And I say to my friend, please. To connect with them.
Please manage my page. It's not page, it's not it's my
life now and I I struggle to to live a normal life When, when my

(31:59):
family like one week ago I was doing my essay, my mum called me
like you know, the situation in Gaza about everyone have this is
sport things and this is what iscalled.
Eczema, some of it scabies, but some of yeah, scabies and this

(32:20):
pictures and skin diseases that.Yeah, all the skin diseases,
it's like my nieces was having it in hold her body and I and my
sister and they're showing me these things and I just I just
like the deadline is tomorrow and and I just saw that and I

(32:41):
can't do something for them. I can't send them medicine now.
There's no medicine and it's she's baby, she was crying and
she can't do anything and her body's just scratching and I
just like. Now the treatment to get into.
And then I have to hold myself like I have, I said to my mum,

(33:03):
OK, my mum, I, I need to go now.I'll call you later.
But I didn't have to go because I, I just, I have to cry.
But I didn't want to show her that I'm crying.
So I said I'm OK, I'm going to call you later.
Bye bye. But then I, I get down And then
I told myself, I said I'm here for, for, for Mishi Shin.
I can't say it's Mishi Shin and I'm going to do it.

(33:27):
I'm going to study, I'm going tosuccess, I'm going to do it.
Whatever is the reason. So I hold myself completing my
essay and then I I get raised. I owe in my Instagram.
I saw another video for child killing girls and I said like
stop it like how can I stop it? And then I get down and then but

(33:47):
I have to commit this EC today. It's like then I said to myself,
like how people can convert, like people from Gaza that are
having a normal life even in London.
Then I said I thought I have a normal life when I come here,
but I think I'm I'll never have a normal life in this situation.
It's not about it's nice you areunsafe here, but when you're

(34:12):
seeing this thing in Gaza, I waswith them and this was I live
what they living. But I'm here now and I have to
see them struggling and I have to process it and complete my
essay and I have to be normal with other people.
If someone call me if someone needs some have to be normal
between. Tools, one of them.
Everything is normal and you have to act and abide by the

(34:34):
selected lines and normal stuff.But at the same time most of
your emotions, body and heart and mentality are back home with
your family, with the struggles,with the genocide.
It's insane. Like it's too much for and I was
thinking about other students because I'm not alone and I was
sure they processing what I'm processing now.

(34:56):
And it's like it's I think we will never have a normal life
because our body in Gaza for ourheart.
Like I said to my friend, like Ilove London.
I love it. Like I felt like when I come
here, it's safe and I felt it's really, really nice.

(35:18):
And I felt like, OK, my body pawned in Gaza, but my heart
pawned in London because it's the first time I'm seeing the
safety. I'm living the life, the normal
life, like having the rights. Because in Gaza, when I was
there, it's like 1 sky. I was in under the one sky from

(35:39):
this place to this place. But there's not safe.
There is not. You are not treated as a human.
You don't get there is not they not they take the food from your
table, the drink and everything.You don't have the right to
live, to eat, to do anything. But when I come here, they give
me food, they give me water, they give me education and I am

(36:00):
under the same sky. This is horrible.
Yeah, but like, but the safety make you feel like, why my
people can't have it and I can'thave it here.
Yeah, exactly. And it's as how you described
it, it's the same sky, but each of you are living a different, a

(36:23):
totally different life. Yeah.
And you, you lived through it around 2 years.
So it's insane. But there's something that you
mentioned on the the roof that you were looking at the sky,
sunset or sunrise. Yeah, Sunset.
Yeah. When you mentioned that I
remembered in 2021, Israeli aggression over Gaza, that in

(36:45):
each aggression, I don't sleep at night and most people don't
sleep because you like the bombardments and everything is
more cruel and violent. So I stay all the night to sink
to, to news, but smiling. So my family will not know that
I'm listening to the to the radio and that I'm worried or
afraid or sad or anything. So and I remember at each day.

(37:08):
So I was living in in Barcelona.So Barcelona Park is just
opposite to where I live. So each time with the sun dries,
I'll be looking from the window.Just add the sky and the sun and
imagine that this gonna be a piece and this will end.
And that like the moment that like few moments of if every day

(37:31):
helped me to go through the the rest of the day in in a way.
So I I wonder if when you spoke about the, the sea, the the sky
and the sun, if you had such moments within the genocide and
the cruelty of it. Honestly, the sunset, especially
the sunset in my life, it's mademy whole life because since I am

(37:51):
kid like I having I start how I start writing is just one hour
before the sunset. It's just for me and my book,
the sunset and writing about my day, journaling anything I want.
So like every day in my hour, inmy day, I have one hour to the
sunset and just relaxing, hot tea, some drink and then the

(38:16):
genocide come. And then I have this place.
And when I have this roof in Morassi, I was looking at the
face in the sky. But it was scary because all the
time, the drones, the bombing, it's strayed.
So it's like make me, I don't have this connection more with

(38:37):
the sky and with the sunset because it's make me, it's
changed my whole life. It's make me like, I don't like
to the to look into the sky more, even when I all my whole
life connected with the sky. So when I was going up to the
roof, I'm going with my sister. I'm not going alone because I
scared to do it alone. And when I come here to London,

(39:01):
it's safe. There's no drones here, there's
no bombing, there's no red sky. But I notice that all the time I
was saying I'm not, I don't havetime with the sky.
And when I sit with myself, I saying why?
I'm telling myself that I'm busyso I don't have to to time to
sit and look to the sky. But I notice when I'm with my

(39:22):
friends, like to be well, I feelreally safe with them.
I look to the sky and I say to them, look, the sky is nice
today. It's really nice.
But when I'm with myself, it's impossible to do that, said my I
noticed that my connection with my sky is no more like before.
Because I'm scared. I still scared about it.
It's even when I see plan here things, I have to look like this

(39:45):
for one moment and I thought it's just me.
But when I was in Newcastle withother friends from Gaza and
research, there's a plan coming and then they all look like
this, all of them. Yeah, we have that.
And, and in this movie, I, I knew that it's not just me, it's
all of us. Even the slam of a door.

(40:08):
So it does make me safe. Like, yeah.
It's made me feel comforted because I'm not alone doing it.
All of them have the same. And the same with the sky.
Like I love the skies, I love the stars, I love, I love starry
night. I love all of those things, but
in the genocide in each aggression, I also like feel I

(40:28):
lost the connection. Even with the beach.
I each aggression, I hate the beach and I hate like the I hate
like the the the sea, because I know that ships like military
ships comes from it. You know that evil and death
comes from there. The same for the sky.
I the moment I felt I hate the sky the most was in the genocide

(40:50):
because it was the first time I was out of faza in such occasion
while my husband and my family were there so it was like the
same sky. They are living hell apolloptic
while I can't join them and I amhere in the UK living safety
under the same exact sky. So I hate it because I couldn't

(41:13):
switch to places. I couldn't be there around them.
So what about you, Dana? So you've been through long
months of the genocide. What helps you to to keep going
on? I don't know, I think what kept
me like going on like during thegenocide or you mean after

(41:33):
leaving? During get at the beginning.
During, to be honest, I don't know, it was just like in the
beginning, I was really hopeful and I really thought that no,
this is going to end very soon. And, and I remember like, I
really believe that ceasefire iscoming.
Things are going to end. Exactly.
And, and then in November 2024, when it was like supposed to be

(41:57):
the day of the ceasefire. And then it turned out that it
was just like a four day truce. I remember I received the news
of martyrdom of my friend Mohammad Hamu, and I was like,
what is like, Oh my God, this islike we were supposed to be like
celebrating A ceasefire or something.

(42:18):
But at the same time, I didn't cry that day.
Mohammad Hammo. He's also a contributor to
Palestine. Yes, and he was.
We are not numbers right there and he was a friend of every
person. He was an amazing person and
Muhammad stayed in Gaza City. He didn't leave and he died in a
he like he was killed in a massacre with 100 members of his

(42:40):
family in Hasina massacre. Yes.
And it was really hard and receiving news was really hard.
But I kept pushing because I still like to remember until
like until like today, I keep reading his messages and he like
how he used to joke and he was like, Oh, you left Gaza.
We stayed, we're like the original Gazans.

(43:01):
And he was always like very light hearted and even like, I
know the situation was really difficult.
And he lived where your family'shouse was near Barcelona.
So it was really like difficult and it was really intense there.
And he they stayed there. And when we, when I lost him, I
was like, I, I couldn't believe it.
But then I was like, he wouldn'thave wanted us to stop writing

(43:24):
or stop doing whatever we were doing because he knew like this
was coming. He knew that we would have lost,
that we would lose a lot of people.
Maybe he didn't know that we would lose him, but he needs to
continue to live within us. And I think losing Mohammed was
one of the things that really drives me to keep on fighting.
And by the end of December and early January before I left, I

(43:48):
had like really bad pneumonia and there were like no, no
medicine in the exactly nothing in the, in the in the Gaza
Strip. So I was just living off of
painkillers and I was like pushing each day by day.
I was writing whenever I had time, but I was like, I'm not
publishing anything because I'm not writing for anyone to know.
And at certain points I was like, because we didn't have, of

(44:09):
course, Wi-Fi or anything for a long time before we got access
to E Sims, which weren't like really efficient at many points.
And I was like, really wonderinglike if the world knows.
And I was like, like, we just have to keep on going.
And then I got to Egypt. And I remember like after I got
to Egypt, it's when like the flood of emotions came and I

(44:32):
weeped over Muhammad. I weeped over my house, over
everything that I've lost. And like, I just, I couldn't
believe it, like what we were going through.
But after I got to Egypt and there was like the ICJ, like ICJ
South Africa versus Israel aboutthe case of the genocide.
And I was like, oh, my God, likethe international community is

(44:55):
actually doing something. So I was like glued to the
television. I was know this is happening.
Something as good as coming along the way.
And I was just like, so hung up on any news of a potential
ceasefire coming along. And that was like since 2024.
And you keep living on that hope.
But at the same time it's it's very difficult because like you

(45:16):
have to check up every single day on everyone in Gaza because
as hard as it is to say, you have no idea if you might lose
anyone at any moment. So you have to keep on like
asking about them. And sometimes it was mentally
draining, but it felt like I have to do it.
It wasn't like an option going. To lose the chance.
Exactly, exactly. And yeah, And I think I that's

(45:41):
when I started like publishing things that I wrote, started
writing more, started believing again that the international
community would do something. But then it kept on going and it
was very prolonged. And yeah, it was, it was very
hard to live through. And I called the 1 1/2 year of
in Egypt as the 1 1/2 years of guilt because I, as I said, you

(46:06):
like your body was in, in somewhere, but your, your heart
and your mind are in a differentplace.
So it was I was always, my mind was always in Gaza, even if I
was physically safe in Egypt. Oh God this must have been very
difficult. Like for me I wasn't in the
genocide the last few days before and it's among the things
I still regret the most. I left because of my visa

(46:28):
conditions, so I can actually make the visa and come here to
complete my PhD. But then it was the thing that I
regretted the most. I contacted UNICEF, Oxfam and
everyone that I worked with before and I asked them, I need
to go back to, I must go back toUS.
And they were like, hello, you're Palestinian, you're from
West, then you have the ID. So certainly if we can't get

(46:49):
anyone inside, it's gonna, it's not gonna be you.
So I do understand the feeling of I remember when I'm
surrounded with people when I'm in trains going to event or
demonstration from place to place in in in the UK and people
are living and laughing and talking about diets.

(47:09):
Why our people? Are still all about the weather
here? Yeah, All the composition is
cold and hot, yes. I'm so honest, but this is the
truth. Yes, and it's it's very
annoying. Like I feel like I'm I'm losing
my mind. I'm there, but I'm also here.
Sometimes I'll say, man, there'speople dying and you're talking

(47:31):
about the weather. Yeah.
Do you don't like the weather? Get a jacket.
But also the weather plays a very important factor here.
You experience Four Seasons in aday.
Yeah, this is a normal things like it's a normal conversation
for the normal people. Yeah, but where we learned,
where we went through, we we supposed to talk about the

(47:52):
weather, but the things that bigger than us bombing and
things that not normal make us not normal.
I'm not talking about who's dying today, who's bombed.
You can't today. Is it your home bombed?
OK until now. Did you displace?
Are you OK? Are you alive?
This is our conversation. But this is not normal.

(48:12):
They are the normal. The weather is now talking about
the the weather is normal. I'm not like they are the
normal. We are not the normals.
For sure would love to live in aworld where Israelis it like
colonialism does not exist, no occupation, no genocide.
And what we think about is the weather, is our diets, is how to

(48:36):
make the place look much beautiful, how to play with the
landscape and all of those things.
I'd love to reach that. But we can't do that for one
reason, Israel. So yeah, we'd love to, we'd love
to. But the feeling of, of being in
two places at the same time is shuttering is, is very

(48:56):
difficult. And it must have been like the
most difficult to actually leave.
So I did not leave. I, I, I was already outside.
But to leave is very, very difficult.
I think about there's one time here I get like, like collapsed.
There's one time that I collapsed.

(49:19):
I like a victory literally collapsed because I like I was
shouting to my friend asking whylike why I should live all this
is life like why I should struggle like this, Why my
family in Gaza and I am here, why they can't eat what I eat,
why they can't drink what I drink, why they didn't have
medicine, why they can't go out.Why, like, why, why, why, why?

(49:42):
And like and like at this momenthe's like, he couldn't do
anything because he never lived something like this.
And he like, he collapse with mebecause he like, because he
didn't find any answer, any, anyanswer to me for in this, in

(50:06):
this, in this moment. I felt like it's like so much
pressure as a Palestinian to live as a Palestinian in this
life is you need not to be hero.You need to be a sober hero to
live it. But I don't want to be hero.
I just want to have a normal life cause you like you.

(50:27):
I want to have Sunday dinner with my family.
I want to go to the beach, I want to go to the university
around my friends. I don't want to talk English
more in my life like. Yeah.
That's it. I want to I want this normal
life. I don't want to be sober hero
and trying to do with my essay while my my family's struggle

(50:48):
with somewhere while they bomb the house.
I don't want to dislike. Resilient at the end or heroes?
Which in a way of another dehumanizes us because we were
like a lot of people do say thatmaybe resilient.
We're resilient, yes, but we didn't have much choice in being
resilient. We were forced to be resilient.

(51:10):
But with that, being resilient mean that you dehumanize us
because we're superheroes, so we're no longer human, so you
shouldn't care about our feelings and our emotions.
No, we still deserve to live like a normal life.
We as I said, we deserve to talkabout the weather, what we
cooked for lunch or dinner. To worry about exams, to worry
about normal things. Exactly.

(51:30):
To worry about like having to separate the white from the rest
of the clothes when doing laundry.
Not just like that. We don't even have a means to do
laundry anymore. Exactly.
I remember like when I come hereevery like because this is the
normal thing. I'm not like complaining the
other about the other people's here, but this was talking to me
all the time. How was the culture shock and

(51:55):
like you're? Asking someone being in genocide
for two years and then after twoyears he's safe and having
safety in the normal. Life.
How is the culture shock? I don't care about the culture,
man. I'm safe.
That's like I care about. That's a shock.
I'm saying this. Is not a shock.
This is impressed. To me, Oh my God, yeah.

(52:16):
So on that, on the genocide and the experience, we'll go now to
a video from our correspondence correspondent Alice Cake talking
about Nakba, talking about the genocide.
And I feel right now. It's important.
Hello, everyone. I am Alice Cake, a Palestinian

(52:38):
writer from Gaza. So for us as Palestinians, our
grandparents used to tell us stories about the tents of 1948,
but we always thought those stories are the stories of the
past, something we should remember not to relive again.
But looking outside my window today, in 2026, those stories

(53:04):
become our view. The tents are back, covering the
heart of Gaza City. And this is the this is the
catastrophe. It is not a history, but it is a
process that never stopped. Here in the West of Gaza there
are mini camps of worn out tents.
One of those camps stand where the where the historical Jundi

(53:28):
al Majrul park used to be. It was one of the most beautiful
and one of the oldest parks in Gaza.
Before the genocide. It was full of green trees.
It was full of people talking and laughing with each other.
It was full of the children playing with their peers all the
time. But when the Israeli occupation

(53:49):
forces invaded the area, they didn't just destroy the houses,
but they also uprooted all thesegreen trees with their tanks and
pull dozers as they uprooted ourpeople decades ago.
And most of those people who areliving in distance are basically
disciplaced to from the lands that are located behind the

(54:10):
airline in the north and east ofGaza.
The Gaza Strip is 365 kilometers.
It's a space and the airline occupies around 60% of it.
So more than 2 million people are forcedly living in around
170 kilometer only. And it is, it is not a big space

(54:35):
for that, that number of people.This is this is what the NEPA
means. This is a systematic effort to
erase us and to erase our identity.
And also these days the world speaks of a ceasefire, but the
killing continues. According to the Iromid
Minotaur, at least 4 Palestinians were killed every

(54:55):
day since the beginning of this so-called ceasefire.
And something we have to to realize is that those people are
not are not numbers. They are humans.
They are teachers, They are mothers, they are husbands, they
are students. And many of them, they were
killed while they were eating the lunch with their family.

(55:17):
This is our land and we will notforget as our grandparents
didn't forget. Thank you so much for having me,
guys. Bye bye.
So much, Ali, it's our pleasure to have you speaking about this
from Gaza in a very eloquent way.

(55:39):
So higher. You said something very painful
while we were watching this. If you can't defeat it.
I said I can't imagine that I lived there.
Yeah. Even when I I lived my whole
life there and I just lived heresix months, but I can't imagine
I lived my whole life there. I can't imagine that all this

(56:02):
distractions and things like turn in one day, everything
every bombed, every home bombed and everyone displaced to
attend. I just inside me, you know, the
same way I told you that how my father, my grandfather telling
me about the Nakba and I believed him.

(56:22):
But I can't process it inside me.
It's the same way out. Since I am here, I can't imagine
that I lived there. I can't believe the stories that
I lived there is real because itjust can't.
Yeah, it's it's very shocking although so he was also speaking
about the the yellow line and you know, the different areas of

(56:47):
from Gaza that have been taken by Israel.
We're talking about around 2/3 of Gaza now is not, we're not
talking about occupation becauseit's really occupies all
Palestine and all Gaza Strip. But we're talking about actual
annexation of land that have been done it through the for
wording of the yellow boxes through our land and literally
massacring anyone who's going around or walking through those

(57:12):
lines. And it doesn't get a lot of
media attention. So for instance, my family
house, like we live in differentplaces also in Gaza because of
everything but our main family. So when we were like in Nakba,
so people came as internal displaced to Gaza.
They left Indra for most of my family, both sides, mum and dad

(57:34):
and my family built the house after working for more than 30
years of their lives, a four story building.
And this house has been attackedlike multiple times.
And each time I call my, my parents after attack of the
house, I tell them, it's fine. Now it's spend a little bit.
We can, we can like paint it, it's fine.
We still have the concrete pillars in the building so we

(57:59):
can rework it. We still have the
infrastructure. And then when we saw that there
is like some information that might be wiped off the whole
block, I called them and I was like, no, where is we still have
the land, it's fine. We can rebuild it.
We've done it before and then because it's in Rafa and it's
actually in Philadelphia area. So it's in the place where

(58:19):
Israel have controlled long timeago and in Rafa that they have
already taken over and the next for them.
So and from Rafa, yes. So both of my family, yeah,
yeah. So I called my family and I was
like, what happened? And my father is is laughing.
Yeah. Hello.
What's your excuse now? How you're gonna make us feel

(58:41):
fine about it. And I was like, OK, I'm done.
There's no way to make you feel fine about it.
It's gone the land and the home.So it's very difficult and
people don't imagine like the immense of of being around it.
So all of my family now, the multi generations of both sides
rights who actually lived in Rafa, all of them now are in
Mosi and none of them have home to go back to and have land and

(59:06):
all of them are actually refugees.
So this is happening for the second time and you've told me
about where you live also and and I.
Live in. Can you imagine?
Like they reached to the center of the city?
Like they now taking all of cars. 60%.
Yeah, yes. With the last 11% orange line,

(59:28):
yeah, more than 60%. If they reach to the to the
central once they left. It's insane.
They got the north, the South and all of the east.
Yeah. So 2 million people are now
living in. In where?
We were saying all the time we will rebuild it.
We will rebuild our home. Like, yeah, we will rebuild it
like you bond it and we will rebuild it.

(59:50):
It's not OK, but we will. But now like one week ago I was
having calling with my mum and then she told me that our home
in the yellow line. So now the the bombed home and
the land inside with the the theinside the the yellow light

(01:00:11):
wishing to the they control it now.
So now we don't have home and wedon't have land.
So we lost everything, literally.
Oh my God, that's very, very scary.
In the video we watched, it's erimal what we call them of Gaza

(01:00:32):
because it's the the place with a beautiful place, the green
size, the the, the good shops, the fancy cafes and restaurants.
Or how it was and before the thegenocide.
And I I live like in the video, like I can see where I live with
my family for two years and in the like in the back of a bank

(01:00:54):
like Palestine Bank. I also can see where I live with
my husband and the area now is something that looks very
different, like a Goss city. Yeah, it's so scary.
Like I can't see anything that looks exactly as I imagine it.
So the memory itself is is attacked, is destroyed with

(01:01:15):
those with those images with a distraction.
So it's, it's very weird, but it's also very important to
remember while people watching other stuff as like beautiful
stuff also. And we're here to talk about
beautiful stuff because it's important to show also the
beauty of Gaza and the beauty ofthe people in Gaza.

(01:01:37):
And we'll share now a video of Marathon that has been done in
Gaza after 10 years of not doingit at the same time with
Marathon and Bethlehem. And we'll talk more about it
later. OK, so going back from that

(01:02:27):
beautiful video showing more than 2000 of our children,
elderly men and women running through the unfortunately ruins
of our homeland, but running after three years of Israeli
genocide, of continuation of it,of the salvation of the famine.

(01:02:49):
So looking at them and seeing them running give us some type
of of hope that they will continue living, they will
continue trying, they will continue striving for life,
although everything but. It's also like happiness coated
with with sadness coated with misery because we didn't see it

(01:03:10):
on the video, but a lot of people who were running were
actually amputees. Yeah.
And that was really, really sad because like, when you think
about like the percentage of amputees in Gaza, it's like the
highest percentage in the world.It's so heartbreaking, but I
love how our people still continue to be like so resilient
as we say, like we, we still like hang on to hope.

(01:03:31):
We want to live, we want to havea life.
We as like refuse the other thing we teach life, Sir, I
always say we don't want just tobe teaching life.
We want to live it. We want to enjoy it.
So I think it's really beautifulhow even despite all of the
ruins, we're, we're still trying.
We hang on to the hope. Yeah, which is the most perfect
thing that anyone could do. And it's very ironic that the

(01:03:54):
people who live the most amount of pain and cruelty are the most
seeking for life. Yes.
So even when I remember my friends have been killed in the
genocide, my cousins and all of that, they've been the most
people attached to life that I Iknew in my life.
And it's shocking. Allah.
So yeah. Maybe all rest?

(01:04:14):
How do you see the marathon? You left it through the genocide
more than any of us. I think there's so many point in
that there's people who seeing that they say, Oh, this, they
are so how they starving and they're running and this is
disgusting, Mabel and there are the positively when they saying,
oh, they love the life they're doing marathon and this is the

(01:04:37):
truth. We not we starving yes, but we
love the life more than anything.
That's why we're running. We're scathing from our fears,
from our from the bombing, from what all we have to run.
So the the running and edge of the running let us everything
inside us and telling the world that we love the life as you

(01:04:59):
liked, as there's was a marathonhere in London, as the people in
London like the marathon and running and enjoying the sun.
We were in Gaza the same or theyare in another condition and
they choose to run. The irony about the marathon is
that it's supposed to connect the land of Palestine.
So for years, almost a decade, we didn't have any marathon in

(01:05:22):
Gaza because the hope was that people would run from Bethlehem
to to Gaza and go around and allof that.
But it didn't happen and becauseof the ruins in Gaza that Israel
have taken more than 65% of the land.
Now there is not enough area to run like a full marathon at 10
kilometers. Yes, so people have to run only
55 kilometers. It's nothing.

(01:05:43):
It's some someone's walk or run every single day here in London.
It's not a big distance to for people to think that starving
people will not be able to do it.
No, and also only 2000 have doneit.
It's not the 2 million. People who you are to say is
allow is not allow exactly are they starve and running who you
are you you stay they silent allthe time and now when they see

(01:06:05):
them running, oh, they're running, they're not starving.
What the hell you are. Exactly to the person who
actually said that Julie on the screen speaking.
So Julia Harley Brewer has commented on this marathon,
saying so impressive that they can do this, what with all the

(01:06:30):
genocide and famine going on around them.
The struggle is real. So she's making.
Fun. So yeah.
We should be a victim. So you are you are agree about
us, so we're going to sit in thestreet and waiting you to made
make another comment. Yeah, but the beautiful thing is
Loki is saying, yes, we teach lifestyle the same thing that

(01:06:52):
you already have commented on, but on on Julia and other
journalists who have been silentthrough the genocide.
They have seen the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.
They have been the massacre sidethere, the massacre side, the
flowers massacres. And they've seen people running
for their lives and running for the aid for the flower and being
killed for that. And they haven't said anything,

(01:07:14):
a single word. And I remember, like I remember
in the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, my cousin Hamad Li
Mukhari, a 29 year old young man, beautiful man, brilliant
man, who's a Baker himself or used to be before the genocide.
He has nine siblings, orphans and some are married and they
have children, all of that and he went to bring flour for them

(01:07:37):
to feed them at the famine time and when he went around the dawn
so they can, you know, come on time for the Israelis that allow
them a short period of time and shooting around them.
He was shot by or like targeted by quadricopter and sharpened in
his head and abdomen everywhere and he unfortunately was killed

(01:07:59):
and he was returned to his family in a bag of flower like a
white bag. And I decided not to be angry
from these people, so I'm not going to get angry because.
It's just reflects like the double standards of this.
World exactly. She did not cover that exactly
and she now has the gut and so many other journalists to make

(01:08:21):
fun of 2000 Palestinians who lived literally every single
second of the genocide, not onlythe genocide, as we all know.
Exactly. And now they're trying to live
something out of that. I don't know how people can not
having a single amount of the humanity inside them.
Like I remember, I remember thisis like the most hard time in

(01:08:43):
Gaza when when I was like we wasliterally dying, not from
bombing, but from starving. Like my family, we have one room
and one tent and they are just next to each other.
And when I was just walking likewalking like are you like you
are inside the home working from1:00 room to one room.

(01:09:06):
I was like like this exactly because there's nothing in my
body like I'm a 23 and I'm. Like even walking is starved.
Yeah, and the beach is like 4 minutes from me, but I can't
walk to the beach. And this I am 23 and we have I
have 3 nieces with us. I don't know at this feeling,

(01:09:28):
the feeling of like you are starving, but the baby with you
starving at least like OK, I'm like I can't breathe, but I
can't hold myself. I still like trying trying to
hold myself. But what the guilty of this is
baby to starving and at this moment my brother, he couldn't

(01:09:50):
he couldn't like he couldn't seeus like this and sit down.
So he went to to this is a pointwithout our knowing and he went
to it like this is, you know what's meaning going to this aid
like 99% you're going to be killed, 1% you're going to back

(01:10:13):
with a flower. And then this moment, then my
brother friend, he come and he was telling my mum like the
doctor Lavak. And then she said to him,
where's he is? And he like she was joked, he
said to her, he went to the aid and my mum like shut down.

(01:10:35):
She couldn't hold herself because we know it's who went.
He who was going never went back.
Yeah. Because drop points.
They were not for humanitarian. There were two massacre people
and me. Exactly.
All of us like was scared about him, but my mum was the most

(01:10:56):
person who was like she couldn'thold herself and then if in the
evening he. Back with A50 but kilo the
flower Oh God and like like it'slike you know when someone
married and have celebration andeveryone like he was like hero

(01:11:17):
but like but my mom said never go back again.
And then my we have in the same land my aunties and then
everyone having some flower and like it was in that night.
But everyone can't go to Pixar making some bakers and things,
and I'd like so. It's sad, yeah, because he's 20

(01:11:39):
and he have to to do that for usbecause he see his sisters and
nieces can't please from being starving.
He he shouldn't live in this hispoint.
I shouldn't live in this point. My mum shouldn't live it for
this point. And then after all of that
stupid calm and saying about this is this is comment and this

(01:12:03):
thing is like. A very racist and supremacist
way. To I feel like if you stay
silent all the time. Just stay silent.
Stay silent till the end. This is this is bitter.
We know that you are. Yeah, on that point, you told me
yesterday about your grandfatherwho lived through the Nakban,
also through the genocide. What did he say about both of

(01:12:26):
them? There was 1 moment also in the
starvation on my mountain, the Salvation, but there was 1
moment in the starvation, he said.
I was crying because there was nothing, literally nothing to
put in your mouth, nothing. You can say anything but there
was nothing. And I like I couldn't hold

(01:12:50):
myself in front of him. And then he, he, he said I lived
all my life. He's 90.
So he said I live all my life but I never lived like this is 2
years. He said he's like, this is 2
years about all the the years I lived before.
Oh my God, if you convert. It and this is Nakba before

(01:13:11):
Nakba. Who's older than Israel?
Next, Yeah, he's older than Israel and he lived to the
creation of this really calling in our land.
And he lived the Israeli aggressions decision.
Yeah. And for him, oh God.
But the genocide was nothing waslike this genocide.
And I was asking myself when I said met with myself, like why

(01:13:35):
the Nakba haven't and this And then now the genocide happened
again, which is the second Nakba.
It's more than the first Nakba even.
Why Like why this is happening again in 2026 since 23, Why this
is happening? Because I think because the
people at this moment, they staysilent.

(01:13:56):
So it's it's now define the Israel found everyone silent so
they can do more and now they take why they take over more?
They take at first from Gaza like this and now they making
the yellow line more because people stay silent.
If they sit, if they someone took, if there's people move,

(01:14:18):
they're not going to be allowed to do that.
But because of the silence of the ward, they're doing more and
more. And it's not about Gaza now that
Gaza's finished now there's no building there is people is like
literally dying from Hungary andfrom the life is finished.
But it's going more than Gaza. And I say the saying that from

(01:14:39):
the beginning of the genocide, Iwas posting and saying it's more
this is Gab, it's going to be bigger and bigger.
If you didn't stop it in Gaza, it's going to be bigger.
And we see that now in Lebanon. We say, they say it's see it in
Sudan, we see it in Iran, in Congo.
They Trump is woke up one day. He he wants Canada, another day

(01:15:03):
he want another pieces. He's like, like, what the hell
is that? Yeah.
And at that point, our colleaguehere, Amir Aziz, always tell us
that what's happening on the ground in Gaza now is the future
of a humanity. Yes.
And like they was of AI, the drones that drones that speaks
with people, the drones that hover around us all the time

(01:15:27):
like. I don't want to remember.
Yeah, coming into house is getting inside.
My room when I was in Gaza and it's just, and I, I, it's come
in my in my room because the window was open and in this
moment everyone was sleeping. And I most of the time I don't
sleep. And most of the time was I'm
like having high temperature in my body.

(01:15:51):
Yeah, most of the time. Like, because I know when I'm
slim, they're going to bomb and I'm going like this.
And I don't want this to happen to me even now in in like in my
daily life here, I try not to make a big mission to me in the
morning. So I'm not thinking about it
because if I think about it, I have to woke up like this and

(01:16:11):
it's remind me what I lived before.
So I try to not do anything in the morning, especially in the
early morning because if I shakebecause I miss something I have,
it's make me in the same situation.
I can't get from my bed because my body didn't understand why
I'm shaking. And it's I'm saying to myself
it's shaking because of it's like, it's like I have deadline

(01:16:34):
or something or have to go to the place.
It's not shaking about bombing or something.
But my body didn't understand that.
It can differentiate as we. Yeah, so I if I shake, I noticed
that if I shake I can't get frommy debate.
I have I have to like saying to myself for one hour like just
get 1 cup of of water just like slowly to get myself out of the

(01:16:59):
bed if I so I'm not doing anything just like.
Going back to the drone, the drone got into your room.
Yeah, so the drone got in my room and I everyone was leaving
and I in this moment, I I boughtthe blanket and myself like this
and I could like because she can't shout you if if it's see
you woke up, you're gonna go. Shoot you directly.

(01:17:22):
Yeah, it's couldn't shut you andlike I was shaking in like I
can't imagine how the drone comein my room and it's killing so
many people. So I know the story.
It's going to kill me or can I kill one of my family?
It also feeds your teeth and. Yeah, but they was sending it at
the night to shake the the people and to get information

(01:17:42):
and think. But it was scary because I was
alone and I am the only one and I just the blanking can't can't
protect me. It's like it's so.
Scary and also like people were talking that it gets into their
tents, it gets into their their their open windows or cracked
windows because we invest that we can't close windows even in

(01:18:04):
the most the coldest weathers because if you close the window,
it will. Yeah, as well she.
Chattered with what, exactly? The explosions.
So you can't close them. It's safer to open them.
But also many houses have lost their windows so Israeli drones
were literally going wherever they want.
Plus. How they were always like
imitating the sounds of crying children and dogs or something

(01:18:27):
to trap people into going to where these sounds are and then
like shoot them. So it is really scary and I
think besides using the drones, the use of AI is very dangerous.
And now we see it that it's not just about Gaza now in the UK as
well, it's being used with Palantir AI being part of the
NHS and everything. So it's really dangerous and I

(01:18:50):
think it should be like a limit should be put on that or a
complete like. Prohibition will be on Palantir,
specifically that there were news that they was a vet will be
unrestricted, yes, on the information of people who are
registered to that. And it's just if we can pull the
yeah. So NHS England has granted

(01:19:15):
external stuff not just from Palantir but consultancy firms
working with them, unlimited access to identifiable patient
data as part of Federated data platform.
So is it true whatever have beentested in the Palestinians and
Gaza is now the. Other boss in the in the world.
And it's not like unidentified information.

(01:19:37):
No, it's identified information.They'll go, they'll get to know
everything. Yes, this was very.
Dangerous Gaza was only the beginning and if a stop is not
being put now, then this is going to affect everyone all
around the world. Yeah, the continuation of that
is very, very scary for everyone.
How the people in the UK can be silent about that?

(01:19:59):
They shouldn't. It's very scary and it's not
just volunteer but also consultancy firms.
I don't know specifically the NHS they have.
Scared about yourself? You must.
Scared about your children at least, and their future.
They're going to be another Gaza, another genocide in
another places. So if you have a message for the

(01:20:19):
British people, knowing that thesame technology that killed us
in Gaza and the genocide that even before is now working and
managing the NHS that has a dutyof care, what would you tell
them? It is now the time to act up.
It is now the time to take a stand and to say something, talk

(01:20:40):
to your MPs, do something that is effective because it's not
just about the Gazans or Gaza, This is about you, your own
safety. So if it doesn't stop now, it's
not just going to affect you today, it's going to affect your
children, the next generations, and it's going to affect the
entire world. True, very true.
Honestly, I'm going to say Habibi, stop talking about the

(01:21:01):
weather and go stop. This is people before they
before they come to the UK and you're not going to be able to
talk about the weather. So just stop a little bit about
the weather and move to this andstop it.
Yeah. And specifically from Gaza, we
know, yes, and we've seen it andwe've experienced it
specifically both of you. And I think this also matches

(01:21:22):
how Meta now decided to stop theend to end encryption on
Instagram messages, which is also very dangerous because now
when your messages are not encrypted and they can be read
and they can be used, this will be used against you.
And if not today, tomorrow. And it's not just the like to
the Gazans, it wasn't that and then an encryption was removed.

(01:21:42):
It's the to the entire world. And everyone would be affected.
Exactly. No one's going to be safe.
No, there will be no right to privacy anymore.
And the only way to prevent all of that is not just to stop
what's happening in the UK rightnow, but actually to stop the
root causes. So to stop it from happening in
Gaza and Lebanon and Iran and Yemen and any other place where
those weapons are being manufactured and tested in our

(01:22:05):
lands. So hopefully the British people
and the global community. They are good people.
They are going to store it. Control we hope so that they'll
they'll realize it and start acting accordingly.
I keep, I keep remembering that Amir and the name of Amir, it

(01:22:27):
keeps coming back to my to my mind and remembering that maybe
the first time I met you, the story was about Amir.
So if you can tell us, who's Amir and what's his story?
Honestly do I promised him to tell the stories to to this
world if I survived. How old is he?

(01:22:50):
Four yeah See Amir is he's four years old and his family
displaced in my father land where I am displaced in Malasi
and a kind of relationship, a friendship having like I have it
with him because he loved the Nescafe something worried but

(01:23:14):
like because he was his family didn't his mum they didn't allow
him to drink the Nescafe. But I'm bad guy.
I was making it for him. I think he like it because I was
thinking why that child four years old like Nescafe?
But when I think about it at this time, there was no tea,

(01:23:34):
There's no melt, there's no hot chocolate.
So it was the only thing that's in the markets there.
That's why. Yeah, it has a taste that that's
why could child like it. And and this is one of the day
he come to me and he was running, holding a bucket of
Nescafe. He took it without his mum.

(01:23:56):
No. And I'm sure about that.
And they come to me and he said hi, can you make me Nescafe?
And I said OK, just just One Cupbecause his mind he want more
than One Cup. So just one.
He said it's OK. And then I take him.
We we got out the firewood and Ilit the fire and boiled the

(01:24:18):
water for him. And then we sit beneath the
olive trees. It was sunny there at this time.
And he drinking this is Nescavy as as he having the whole world
honestly he enjoy it and his family.
I was hearing his family tint. It's just nice to us.

(01:24:40):
They was watching TV. We could hear the voices of the
TV and in one moment like in onesecond, honestly like hot push
me backwards me and him like with that.
We didn't know at this time whathappened, honestly.
Because when you are like when you, when when you are inside

(01:25:05):
that place, when it's bombed, your air is closed so you don't
hear the voice. Yeah.
So all we always, we feel like the earth us push us backwards.
And this is moment. So in this moment, it was just
he the only survivor of his family, four years old

(01:25:26):
Deniskovae. It saved his life.
Oh my God. Hey, his so his family was in
the tent they was watching TV like this and they sitting in
circle and his he have so his dad is already called at the
beginning of the genocide and his mum is displaced where her

(01:25:46):
with her family and I told you they were sitting in circle and
the television like this and at the middle his sister bed.
She is 6 months. Oh my God, and this trick is in
in the rocket is exactly it justnext to this bed to the baby

(01:26:08):
bed. Can you imagine charging a baby
and she's was she was full with blood and the whole family his
mum killed now and his sister. I told you his dad from the
beginning and his grandfather grandma was there, his uncle, he

(01:26:30):
was calling his uncle dad because he he lost his father at
the beginning and he child, he don't understand too much.
So he find his uncle around him.So he start calling him dad.
And then like, Can you imagine four years old, processed
genocide, starvation, displacement, and losing his dad

(01:26:55):
once and again and his whole family?
I can't imagine that. Oh my God.
He's only a four year old full. So would you show us the photo
of Amir? Yeah, this is this is the
picture where it's the same day when his family bombed.

(01:27:16):
Yeah. And he was choked like like you
can't see like he didn't have noreaction.
And he kept asking me all the day I want to go to my mom, I
want to go to the tent and I didn't allow him.
Like how can I allow him to go there?
And then all the day he kept saying like he OK coming to me

(01:27:38):
having his Nescafe but then he back to his mom.
And then at the end of the day Icouldn't like he's his baby.
I couldn't stop him like he was four years, but I couldn't stop
him. He said I he said I want to go
like and then I hold his hand and we went and then when the
first moment he saw he was holding my finger like this and

(01:28:01):
the first moment he saw the tinthe make like this and he said he
said tint broke him. He even though understand what's
been bombed and and at this moment, he like he kept walking
it through the the tent until they get out of the land to the

(01:28:24):
street where his uncle used to sit.
And he asked me, where's my uncle?
I didn't know what should I say?I hold him like this in my and
I, I was crying in the other side.
I don't want him to see me but he hold me.
He literally a four years old told me hold 23 girls crying in

(01:28:47):
his lap. It just and I don't know what I
told you the Palestinians will never have a normal life and why
we a child can go on. This is life and why I can't go
on. This is things.
And then someone in London say to me, where's Palestine?

(01:29:08):
Yeah. Like if I died there, they
killed me. It's better than someone asked
me where's Palestine? Not knowing about all of this
exactly like. You don't know about all of
this. That's you mean you don't know
about who I am and you don't know what I go went through and
you don't know about all of thisis make me feel I am nothing and

(01:29:31):
my homeland is nothing and my people is nothing for this world
and it's finished me. It's so scary, but when I think
about Emir, A4 year old child going through all of this, I
can't stop myself from thinking of the first question I asked
here in the podcast, the first exposure of the reality of being

(01:29:55):
a Palestinian. So if I imagined this moment is
the first moment for Emir, if I mentioned the genocide is the
first moment for a 1,000,000 child in Gaza, half of the
population in Gaza for the reality of being a Palestinian
because under settler colonialism and genocide, what

(01:30:16):
type of what type of life they will have?
Like I'm my life, my identity, my my whole character is shaped
by stories at the beginning thatI heard from my parents and
grandparents and some the reality stuff I left and then I
continued to grow through the different Israeli aggressions
and siege over has and all thosethings.

(01:30:36):
But they left the unimaginable, the most cruel experience and
the most sensitive time of theirlives.
So how would that would shape their lives?
And above all of that, they still living it exactly.
And above all of that all, there's no UK now in Gaza.

(01:30:58):
Yeah, can Yanni now three years of the genocide.
There's some volunteers opening like a voluntary schools, but
there is no. Like sitting on the ground
without papers, there is no likeproper, proper education.
And that's very crucial because I remember after each Israeli

(01:31:20):
aggression, and I used to be angry with that when I was
young, we would go back to school and the next exact day,
the university, the next exact day, if we had an exam, we'll
have it. So they don't.
We had one of the highest literacy rate in the world.
Exactly. And one of the reasons why we
were able to deal with everything that's we've been

(01:31:40):
through is the education is the going back to schools, is the
going back to our colleagues, crying with them, spending time
going to the break like the the breakfast time together crying
or playing or running. And yes, This Is Us, you know,
for the are not having this a chance.
They have another chance. Beta.

(01:32:01):
This is what the world need. Maybe they call it beta.
They now all the children know that just the way to get in line
for the food, water to get in line for the food to get
aligned. This is their life now.
They'd have no education, no places to play, no safety and
displacement. And maybe they lose, lose their

(01:32:23):
bears and family like Amir and Idon't know.
Actually, this is, it's funny that you mentioned education
because this is actually what I'm working on with picturing
Scholasticide because like how the systematic destruction of
like schools, universities, killing of like scholars and,

(01:32:45):
and professors and teachers in Gaza, how that would affect the
next generations. Maybe now it's not very
apparent, but if these children don't go to school or like they
don't learn the which exactly and they're not going to.
So like if they don't do that, the, the illiteracy rates will
be very high in the upcoming years.

(01:33:05):
And I think this is what Israel does want.
They don't want us to be an educated population.
They want, they don't want us toknow what are our rights Are
they want us to be running aftera loaf of bread or, or water
exactly to focus only on surviving, not on being out
there and to speak on our rightson on our fundamental human
rights being violated and brokenevery day.

(01:33:28):
And it is very, very, very scaryhow like kids now they don't see
schools as the place they go to learn to.
It's the place where they have to go take shelter and get
bombed and and lose their families and.
Yeah, they can't imagine school is a place of education, that's
true. And also the types of games that
the children are playing now, those are not the games we

(01:33:48):
played when we were young. I was watching a video of little
children, maybe four or five year olds.
They're only playing a game of funeral.
Yes, carrying the you know, whenwe carry the murders and and a
wooden, a wooden like thing and we carry them together and we we
start marching and on. The morning.

(01:34:09):
Can I ask you? Why?
Because this is what they have seen.
Seen through. This is the years the only thing
they seeing in front of them. It's just the only thing like
this so it's coming in their games.
Can you imagine how it's horrible to child to play with
this? It's a lost childhood.

(01:34:30):
The death is game now or child children.
Yeah, exactly. And the most cruel thing is that
everything that Israel is creating and doing and violating
our lives with is getting into the most intimate aspects of our
life. Even children lives, their
games. Their games are things created

(01:34:51):
by their imagination. And their imagination now is
only death and cues and those sort of fearful and disgusting
reality and stuff. I remember when we were young,
children would would play like weddings.
That was funny. But this is something they used
to see and so they were like doing the same, mimicking it.

(01:35:14):
But now they're mimicking funerals, marches.
Israel is the reason. All of this is the reason and no
one can stop it. No one in this world but people
here, they give up when they seelike be they see things in Gaza
and they can't do something. They give up and this is not

(01:35:36):
right. Like now people they got give
up. They can't say do something and
then they they do things more horrible that they stay silent
and things go more worse than Gaza.
But I think we would can help like people here all the time
that they think when they say this is things for the children
and things they got emotion and they feel it.

(01:35:59):
But then they said I can't do something for like you can.
I think people can two more thatI can imagine the same way the
outspoken press helped me to to blame up for my scholarship to
publish my book to get here. It's like everyone can do

(01:36:20):
something. Some people can tutoring the
student in Gaza. Some people can help them to get
here because you saving education of whole generation.
Now, if you're doing these things, it's like you made the
like they made my entire life. Yeah.
So by continuing supporting the operations of education.

(01:36:43):
And there's like 1000 things to do and to help.
Exactly. Don't let this is yeah, it's
disappoint, disappointed but anddisgusting.
But don't let these things let you down.
Make it distinct, push you to domore.

(01:37:05):
Yeah, exactly. On that note, on the note of
everything that's happening and genocide and all of that, it's
important to remember that the genocide itself, the murder of
our people, our journalists, ourmedics, and all of that is not
something in you. It's something that Israel have
been doing all over the the years and today commemorates the

(01:37:27):
4th anniversary of the murders, direct murders.
Shrina Barkley, the journalist from from the West Bank and I
believe all of us like she was killed on the 11th of May and an
investigation was opened in 2022and in November and until now,

(01:37:50):
no results at all. But to know like it's a story,
it's, it's a very disgusting thing that investigations are
only open then there is no actual prosecution and
accountability for Israel on a side that is this is like very
disgusting. But at the same time, Shirin
Abakhla for us, like she, she highlighted our childhood for

(01:38:13):
me. She like started by Intifada
being a Jordan, not being a journalist, but being seen for
us. And I always remember like when
I was young, watching the TV with my family, so.
Cozy. Yes.
And repeating after her, Sheena Baklay, Al Jazeera, Ramallah,
Palestine. So this is something that we all
grew up with and we all memorizethe the sentence by sentence

(01:38:37):
that she used to say to have herkilled in front of cameras and
nothing happening after that is mental, yes.
Honestly about that, I was just reading Perfect Victims for
Muhammad Al Qurd and he has an entire chapter dedicated to
Shereen's passport. Shereen served the Palestinian

(01:38:59):
cause because she's Palestinian and like no one ever knew
anything about her nationality or anything.
But it was so ironic how after she was assassinated, she was
murdered. The only focus was that she's an
Palestinian American journalist,but she wasn't American.
It was just a passport that she has.
But she was Palestinian first and foremost.

(01:39:20):
And the question is that why is it that when it is she's a
Palestinian American, then her, then she matters as a human and
as a journalist. But if she's only a Palestinian
journalist, then I think that would have been brushed off
without being taking care and like, taken into consideration
without actually like opening aninvestigation, even if it came

(01:39:41):
with no results until now. Can I say something?
Yeah, yeah, still racism. Racism.
Yeah, yeah. And racial discrimination and
everything. Because.
Whose life is count, whose life is is meaningful, whose death is
accountable for and whose death is aggrievable.

(01:40:02):
And that could be seen exactly and the matter of Chenna
Barkley. The The interesting thing about
Chenna Barkley as a journalist is.
Is the eruption of the people journalists in in Gaza on the
ground within the genocide? So we know that more than 270
pristine journalists have been targeted by Israeli occupation

(01:40:23):
for only showing the truth. And she was killed while
covering on genie and camp invasion by Israel.
So she was killed because she was exposing the truth.
And for that reason so many people like me, for instance,
I'm a dentist first of all. And then I've done the PhD in
sociology and politics, and I have now to claim a position of
a journalist only to, in a way, commemorate, in a way to

(01:40:46):
continue the path that our brilliant journalists have
already paved for us. So it's a very difficult
situation that we all live in, but we have to continue.
Yeah. We have to continue.
The message Dentist or journalist?
Sorry, what's better dentist? Or journalist.

(01:41:07):
I don't know. It's a difficult question when
the journalist like because of my life in Gaza and how every
opportunity that I was able to secure was literally blocked
because of the Israeli occupation, siege or aggression.
So I thought I have to be in politics so I'll be able not
just to help myself. It's fine.

(01:41:28):
I'm not anymore going to be ableto continue my speciality and
thing related to Medical Sciences, but for others to be
able to help others. And this is how I thought and
built my life through the years until the genocide started.
But then when the genocide started, I really thought that
because what I wanted to do is to practice reconstruction

(01:41:52):
surgery to complete specialization in that, and it
was mostly needed within the genocide.
So I I don't thinking what if I managed to secure the
opportunities that I had and wasblocked by Israel, If I was now
a surgeon, would I have been helping him out so much than a

(01:42:13):
person who just speaks and God knows who listens to us to stop
the genocide. So it's a difficult question.
I don't have an immediate answer, but it's something I
always grapple with and think. Since I come here, I see all the
people here, all the Palestinian, they come, they
went. To the political.

(01:42:34):
Side, Yeah. In a way or another, it's in
with them. There they are.
Their background is different, but then they are in the
politicals. Yeah.
So I was thinking is this is my future?
We don't skirt. It's difficult because you try
to help and there is so little venues where we as Palestinians

(01:42:55):
can actually help in so. We'll see.
We'll. See, looking forward, the future
is just in front of us. So on the dehumanization point
that you were talking about, there was an image on a coffee
in Gaza, luxurious coffee that we need to to to see together.

(01:43:16):
Yeah, to see how they have described it.
So they described luxurious Gazacafes, Pocket white, the hole in
the genocide narrative, like if it doesn't exist.
And this is the luxurious coffeethat they are describing.
A makeshift. Yeah, you are.
And of wooden sticks people are coming here for to study

(01:43:39):
workspace. Yeah, yeah.
To study, to work to this luxury.
Yeah. They are describing it as
luxurious. And this is really.
Yeah. I think they are not white, so
this is too much less. For them exactly spot on.
You're right. They think this is luxurious
because it's Palestinians from who left.

(01:44:01):
The genocide that they claim andthey're do is that they're not
not a real genocide. They yeah, they have so many
extras, say some, some I think some this.
Yeah, this is too much for them,man.
This is no longer than the Juliacomment, that of about the
marathon. Coming from the same.

(01:44:21):
This is the Western media that doesn't want to see Gazans as a
human. That called Dendrajab a young
woman, which when she was like 3years old, four years old.
So yeah, it's I don't know what to say.
I believe it's no comment. I think they're not used to see
this because New York, they was saying all the time just blood.

(01:44:43):
So this is people alive and having computers and sitting
down. This is too much.
Yeah. The.
Stereotype of Gaza just doesn't match this pictures.
Yeah, just report them to Israelto finish them so they can.
So this is maybe they gonna be satisfied for them.
It's a very disgusting world to see, the whole the whole thing,

(01:45:04):
the comment of it, rather than commenting on the reality that
it's a makeshift place, it doesn't have any, that it's
people. Trying to make a living, to
survive. What is going on?
Yes. But it's again a complicity of
the Western media. It's not that they don't see,
they're choosing not to see and to block the reality of the

(01:45:24):
situation. So on that and speaking on that
topic, exactly the dehumanization, the blocking of
narrative. We've seen Palestinians in Gaza,
West Bank, through the genocide and even before speaking about
Israeli settler colonial sexual violence against them at
detention camps, at invaded, like ground invaded areas in

(01:45:48):
Gaza and even in like invading of homes in the West Bank.
And Palestinians have been speaking about that.
And in the genocide, we've seen people going out in testimony
saying that they were raped by Israeli soldiers, female or
male. They were raped by metal sticks,
by dogs, trained dogs to rape them.
And people were like disbelieving, yeah, no, no way.

(01:46:12):
And everyone's silencing that and everything.
And a New York article was published about the rape of dogs
and and it's yeah, the title is the silence that means the rape
of Palestinians. So finally such media outlet is
talking about it. And we're hoping out of this

(01:46:33):
more people will be talking about it.
So what do you think about this the the coverage of the pre
Israeli rape for the Palestinians?
I think that it it's Yeni betterlate than never because like
we've been the reports about therape had and like the sexual
violence have been reported for two years.
EU to medical human rights monitor have published so many

(01:46:56):
researches about this and when Ifirst saw this yesterday I was
like finally well the world now believe and this is like like
the first idea that came to mindbecause people are getting raped
stories are coming out of Gaza every single day for two years.
Where was the Malia their? Faces the journalist.
I give it this to money like by himself standing that I was

(01:47:19):
raped by Israelis and no one believed.
But hope it's not about not believing.
But it's. I don't want to believe you.
Exactly. I hear you.
I see that. I don't want to believe you
because this is not my mother's.Yeah, They made me to me more
than to talk to you about that. So I have the money and I have a

(01:47:41):
vacation in New York or another place, like in the beach with my
wife and my kids is OK. And then the other wall is
burned. It's OK.
Such a shame. Well, such a shame.
But from that point, so you saidhuman rights organisations,
human rights officers, we're talking about the UN bodies,

(01:48:05):
we're talking about so many Palestinian, pro Palestinian,
but also some Israeli articles and journalists.
We're talking about and documenting all of those crimes
and literally nothing is happening because we see the
continuation of the genocide on a silent mood now.
So do you actually still believein international law as a lawyer

(01:48:27):
yourself? This is a very funny question.
Say be silent. Actually, yes.
And I know it's very surprising to say that, but yes,
questioning the legitimacy of international law and like, why
does it exist is as good as it'sa tale, as good as all this
time. And like we have seen that and

(01:48:48):
like during the Cold War, duringWorld War 2, during Iraq war and
everything. And every time it is being
questioned is every time that itproves why it is even more
necessary than before. And I think that by saying that
we don't believe in international law, then we are
giving a legitimate cause for the violations to continue to

(01:49:10):
happen without being addressed. Because if we we didn't have the
international law, OK, we wouldn't have been able to call
it a genocide. International law, International
Criminal law, the Rome Statute of the ICC is the reason why we
can call it a genocide, right ornot.
It has the elements of the genocide, the ICJ and the South

(01:49:30):
Africa versus Israel, the ICC indictments for Netanyahu and
Gallant. That's all international law.
I. Agree with you.
Can I? Just finish my but I think.
That back to you. But I think that like being
saying that international law isnot important.
It's just like how like for example, for domestic law, if we
didn't have the domestic law, people would go around killing

(01:49:52):
each other. Murder would be legitimate
there. It's not a violation, therefore
it's not punishable. Enforcement is the problem.
It's not the international law itself.
And enforcement of the law is a bit difficult because in the end
it depends on states, it dependson contributions.
But going forward, I think we will be able to see that it

(01:50:12):
started with the ICJ, South Africa versus Israel.
It started with Netanyahu's indictment.
Netanyahu is like the first Western country ally to ever be
indicted in the ICC. And that itself is a very big
improvement and that we should like take into consideration.
So I do believe in internationallaw, OK.
So there is something to have hope on and celebrate about

(01:50:33):
until we hear from my aunt. What do you think I?
Am I'm so nice, but you're saying so nice and I, I want to
believe it from all my heart. The international law, the yeah,
they call it genocide. But if they call it, if they not
call it, what did they do to us?They do.
Did nothing. So again, the implementation,

(01:50:54):
the power to actually, but. You know how difficult it is to
be called a genocide? It's until today all many of
like the Western countries stillfight the word genocide.
It's a very powerful thing to have like a state, like being
labeled as a genocidal state committing genocide against
people. So for us as Palestinians and

(01:51:16):
anyone who's under oppression, what we expected from the world
is not just to recognize it, butto stop it.
But the issues that international law is in a state
where they are very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But only calling it a genocide is progression, and that itself
is painful for us and for everyone else.

(01:51:38):
So before we end, if you can hire, tell us a little bit about
your book. It was shortlisted for the
British award. Congratulations.
Thank you so much, the only things make me comfort in this
is. Room make me speak comfortably

(01:51:59):
this is olive tree all the time I was looking for it it's hold
me up honestly because. It's remind me where I'm
displaced. Everything is start with me with
olive trees. Just remind me with when I was
woke up every morning in Mosseryand the first thing with the
window when I open it is Olivet tree.

(01:52:21):
And this is Olivet trees is my fatherland is full with Olivet
trees that he planted it and I was like kids 10 years and my
youngest brother and sister, we were playing around him while he
had planted these trees. And then we grow.
Up and this place in this years and my dad passed away and and

(01:52:44):
it's like the olive tree is now like.
Huge, massive. And I'm like, it's when I was a
kid it was the same tool but nowit's like more than me.
And this remind me with my dad and this remind me with my
grandfather and connected me with the land.

(01:53:05):
And also remind me with the treeevery.
Day when I woke up, I say to theolive tree.
It's crazy. I say good morning olive tree.
I'm trying to hold myself in thegenocide so I'm talking to
anything to give me help. And it's like like when I was
getting bad and like the situation is so bad.

(01:53:26):
I'm going like. Going around the olive trees and
remembering my dad and so in thegenocide, it's hold me to my too
many times. And that's why I called my book
the age of olive trees because Ifeel it's my age, my father age
and it's like it's our land. The The oldest tree in Gaza is.

(01:53:48):
More older than the occupation age, so the olive tree speak
always. Nice.
Very powerful. Yeah.
Thank you so much. Hiya.
Thank you so much, Dana, for joining us today.
Thank you for having us. Hello.
For sure, it was a very painful,inspiring, traumatic, I wouldn't

(01:54:10):
say to me, but for sure for bothof you.
And I'm so sorry for that. But yeah, very necessary for us
and also for everyone who's listening to us.
On that note, thank you so much for everyone who's been watching
until now. And see you on CHANNEL next
week, Wednesday 7. PM have a goodbye bye.

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