May 20, 2026 • 48 mins
Ahmed Alnaouq and Hala Hanina are joined by hip hop artist, activist and journalist Lowkey and author and investigative journalist from the Electronic Intifada, Asa Winstanley.
They discuss the rise of the far right in the UK and its connections to Israel, the unprecedented legal proceedings facing direct action activists and the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Support us by becoming a paid subscriber from as little as £1 a month. Your support helps us build independent Palestinian-led media in a world which has never needed it more urgently:
https://donorbox.org/support-palestine-deepdive
Follow us:
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think inevitably the next Prime Minister of the country
will be Nigel Farage. I think as horrific as Labour is
and has been under reform, particularly on the Palestinian
issue, you will likely see the British embassy moved to occupy
Jerusalem. Tommy Robinson decided to make
(00:20):
his second big protest on the same day of the Nekba.
Was that a coincidence? We've seen successive
politicians in both parties, butmostly the Conservatives and now
reform calling solidarity marches with Palestinian hate
marches, whereas that was the real hate March, was the the the
far right. For Tommy Robinson to have his
(00:41):
March, want to have his March onthat same day, seems to me like
a deliberate provocation. In terms of the Palestine, the
Palestinian 'cause we have to beaware of the intricacies that
exist within the Reform UK movement.
So they have an internal Zionistlobby group called Reform UK
(01:03):
Friends of Israel, which is headed by Jason Pearlman.
Now Jason Pearlman was formerly the media adviser to Isaac
Herzog, Israeli President, and also he was the advisor to
President Rivlin before him. So if you wanted.
Actually, to prevent people fromhaving to be forced to immigrate
(01:24):
to other countries. That's the heart of the empire
and colonialism. You have to be fighting.
The Zionism you have to be fighting colonialism and
occupation. Hello and welcome back to
Palestine Deep Dive. Today we are joined in the
studio by two special guests, the legendary hip hop artist,
activist and journalist Loki. Alongside one of Britain's
(01:47):
bravest investigative journalists and authors, the
brilliant Isawan Stanley from the award-winning Electronic
Intifada. In this episode of the world's
first Palestinian Chacho, we will be diving into some of the
biggest. Political stories.
Shaping in Britain and Palestinetoday from Tommy Robinson to the
rise of the far right across theUK.
(02:07):
To the trail of Palestine actionactivists and the political
record and legacy of Keir Starmer.
We will also be hearing directlyfrom our contributors in Gaza
who will be highlighting the life saving work of Gaza's civil
defence teams as they continue rescuing Palestinians from
beneath the rubble and as amid Israel's ongoing bombardment and
(02:29):
genocide of the. Strip.
Stay tuned as we cover all of this and more.
And if if you value our independent journalism on
Palestine, don't forget to like this video, subscribe to the
channel and share the episodes. Thank.
You so much for joining us here in the studio.
It's it's a pleasure. We had both of you before.
We had you many times, OK. And people love you, I have to
(02:52):
say. I love you.
We had also ASAP before, but we're very lucky to have you.
Here together, yeah. There is a lot we want to talk
about today. I wish we have good time to talk
about everything, but there has been a lot going on during the
past two weeks. During the past week in
particular, one of them was the Tommy Robinson rally in London
(03:15):
and also the Pro Palestine Nakbaprotest in London.
So we want to watch this video and then see.
Let's so share the first video, guys.
What would happen if you become a Prime Minister tomorrow?
What would you change? I would stop Islam.
I'd end foreign funding in this country.
(03:36):
All the migrants will be taken out of the hotels and sent back
tomorrow by the military. I would reverse.
I would have remigration. It's time for many Muslims to
leave this country. If they're not going to be very
similar, it's time to go on. You've got your homes to go to.
This is our home. We've got nowhere to go to.
We're not allowing it to change any longer.
You've seen today people are fedup.
Then people are fed up, fed. Up national sovereignty, safety
(03:57):
and security. A.
National identity. Every word here is a stupid.
Every word needs unpacking. There is a lot to talk about and
unpack, but can I ask both of you about your first reaction to
this future? Well, the irony of Tommy
(04:18):
Robinson saying that he would stop foreign funding is really
interesting here because when you look at when his first
organization, the English Defence League, was registered
on Company's house, it was registered by a former Israeli
soldier by the name of Roberta Moore.
Now not long after that, she changed the name from the
English Defence League to the Jewish Defence League.
(04:40):
The second time it was registered on Company's house
was by Sheila Helen Gawa and sheoriginally registered it as the
English Defence League and then changed the name to the English
and Jewish Defence League. Now the Jewish Defence League
was founded by Meer Kahan in theUnited States originally.
He then moved to occupied Palestine and founded what they
(05:02):
called JDL Israel. Now, JDL Israel became the Kah
Party, which was the party of Itamar Bengavir.
And so you see this clear trajectory, which it seems to
me, Tommy Robinson, in his earlyrallies outside the Israeli
embassy, he was accompanied by an individual by the name of
(05:23):
Rabbi Nachim Shifrin. Now, Nachim Shifrin was the
driver for Meerkahan. And so you see the clear link
between what was the JDL and Tommy Robinson's organization
we're talking about all the way back 15 years ago, 15 plus years
ago. So what's happened since then?
Is he someone who has been funded handsomely by Robert
(05:46):
Shulman, who is on the board of was on the board for the Friends
of the IDF directly funding the Israeli military?
Of course, he's been funded by the Middle East Forum, which is
headed by Greg Roman, who is a former employee of the Israeli
Ministry of Defence and the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
So when he's talking about foreign funding, it's almost as
(06:08):
if what he represents is a purely organic expression of
something that already was present in the society.
Now, it's to some extent true that his ideas do exist
independently, but what has happened with him is he, as he
(06:30):
put it, has been created by EzraLevant.
And he directly references the funding from Robert Shillman in
the speech where he talks about that.
And so they accentuate and ultimately seek to exaggerate
some of these elements. And another interesting thing
about the United Kingdom rally is that it was attended by
(06:53):
Jonathan Cornicus, who was exactly.
I think this is part of this whole kind of attempt to
manufacture a clash of civilizations and especially
having these two demonstrations manufacturing it so that this is
2 demonstrations in London on the same say.
It's really interesting, Loki, how you bring this, this history
of battle, Roberta more back because I think it's kind of a,
(07:15):
it's kind of a forgotten part ofthe history of Tommy Robinson
and the ADL, The, the, the, the JDL and the EDL.
Because she, as you said, she named her organization after my
Kahana's terrorist organization in, in the United States, the
JDL. And Kahane was somebody who was
(07:35):
recognised for the longest time by the FBI as being, it was
listed as a terrorist group for,for a while.
You know, they carried, people forget it carried out this
bombing campaign in the United States in, in the 70s and the
80s. You know, it was targeted at the
Soviets and at Arab targets. At one point they attacked
Edward Saeed's office and she that's what she was kind of
(07:58):
seeking the, the lineage of and she was one of the kind of in a
way a forgotten Co founder of, of, of the EDL.
Later on she made it into this so-called Jewish division of the
EDL. Later she fell out with Tommy
Robinson, but I remember covering her activities around
about a decade ago, I think it was 2014 or 2015.
I wrote a couple of articles about it where she, she went
(08:19):
along to, there was a very smalllocal Palestinian literature
festival in North London and she, she attacked it and has
basically assaulted someone. She almost got sent down for it.
But the, the CPS, the prosecutors, actually they, they
fumble the whole thing and she got away with it.
Her and her accomplice got away with it.
So, yeah, this is someone who's very dangerous, someone who's
(08:41):
very violent and has been involved in, in the occupation
in the West Bank in different ways.
So I think it, Loki's absolutelyright.
Like it's not just, yes, there is of course there is these
racist tendencies within Englishsociety, but this whole
phenomenon of this far right, it's not a grassroots thing at
all. It's something that's
(09:01):
manufactured and out with a lot of money.
You know, a lot of money has to go into this often foreign
funding, as you said, like that's, that's the irony of, of
Tommy Robinson. 'S comments.
About foreign funding. Yeah, and that takes us to the
many question, who's Romy? Who's Tommy Robinson and who's?
He funded by and what's his agenda?
(09:21):
Why is he doing all? Of that.
So ultimately his agenda is, as ASA alluded to, to import this
clash of civilizations mentalityand a sort of determinism about
a society which developed off the back of British colonial
(09:42):
endeavour and imperialism. Britain didn't have an empire.
Britain was an empire occupied 14,000,000 square miles of the
world after World War One. World War One itself was
dependent on the use of porters from the outer colonial reaches
to transport the weapons back and forth from the front lines.
(10:03):
Huge amount of Indians for for Britain in World War One.
And then of course you have in the aftermath of World War Two,
people coming from the outer reaches of the British Empire to
help build the NHS and to establish really the welfare
state that protected many peoplebefore.
And it was the British Nationality Act that stated that
(10:26):
anyone who was from any part of the British Empire was in
essence a British citizen. It wasn't until the Commonwealth
Act in 1962 that that changed. Now what he represents I would
say is a grappling among the population here to come to terms
with a new shape of the world. Britain being the world's number
(10:47):
one economy was based on the deindustrialisation and de
development of other societies. If you look at the share of the
global economy that India and China had prior to the 1600s and
and the establishment of the East India Company, it was a
massive section of the global economy.
(11:07):
Britain went into both of those societies, attempted to use them
as captive markets mainly, but also resources extraction and
also free labour in a lot of those cases.
And so with that, this place which geographically is limited
in terms of land mass, in terms of resources, was able to impose
(11:30):
itself as the world's number oneeconomy.
Now we're in a situation where Britain is really seeing a world
with the 20 fastest growing economies.
Are all of them non European? Many of them are former British
colonies. And English as a lingua franca
of business is not even a guarantee going forward.
(11:53):
China is definitely going to overtake the United States as
the world's number one economic power within the years to come.
And so people are grappling withthat.
At the same time their own country has been hollowed out in
terms of state assets. So the things that they took for
granted, like the National Health Service, the rail, mail,
(12:15):
water, these things have gone from being key parts of daily
life here that were publicly owned to being siphoned off and
compartmentalised into private entities, in some cases run by
state companies of other countries.
During the EU period, you have the trains run by German state
(12:37):
companies. The EDF is a French state
company, for example. But what you also have is
companies run and owned essentially from tax havens now.
So key elements of the public assets in this country are now
owned from abroad. There's not really been an
increase in real wages since 2008.
(12:59):
You also have a situation where 14 million people in the country
are in poverty. A million of them are children.
7 out of 10 of the children who are grown up in poverty are in
families where one parent is working.
You've had an attack on the trade unions, which has directly
led to a further disparity between the richest and the
poorest within the society. A small disparity between
(13:23):
richest and poorest in any society is directly correlated
to collective happiness. And that's.
Oxford University lecturer DannyDorling has found that.
You look at Finland, you look atNorway, you look at Sweden,
where there's a smaller disparity between the top 1% of
the population and the and the percentage they take of the
(13:43):
national income and the rest of the population.
You have greater levels of collective happiness.
So people are disgruntled, more angry than they've ever been,
and they are looking for explanations for why they're in
the situation they're in. And so Tommy Robinson, rather
than focusing on, for example, the US companies who are
(14:06):
wreaking havoc in the National Health Service and are actually
the reason that you can't see a doctor when you need to, he is
pushing a form of, I would say, horizontal hatred and vertical
solidarity. Now the horizontal hatred goes
against the person on the same level as you that you can see on
the street, and the vertical solidarity essentially goes
(14:28):
upwards with the elites that he's really a creature of.
And behind all of that steps in the Israeli aspect where they
look at this society which has established very strong
communities. You look at a community like
Ladbroke Grove, you look at community like Southall, you
(14:50):
look at community like Brixton. These are culturally confident
communities because there was political struggle within them
to assert their rights. And so in order to push back the
support for Palestine in this society, which is partly a by
product of the cultural confidence that you do have here
partly, and also to drive a wedge between what they call the
(15:15):
Red and Green Alliance. Now if you look at the
mobilisation against the Iraq war in 2003, by some estimations
you have 3 million people on thestreets at that time.
Now at that time that would haverepresented around 5% of the
population. You have those 5% of the
population which are considered to be the leftist and Muslim
(15:37):
organisations working together. If they were to have some sort
of block in which they vote in the same way, then they play a
greater influence in the political system.
So they have to be demobilised, Muslims have to be disempowered
and scared from getting involvedin politics.
(15:59):
They have to be smeared in the media.
They have to be spied on by Prevent Leftist, have to be
infiltrated by the spy cops and the special demonstration Squad
and things like that. They also have to be smeared in
the media. They also have to be blacklisted
from jobs. And that's how you create a
system of a hierarchy of political subjectivity whereby
(16:24):
if you fall within those spaces,particularly support for
Palestine, which is a red line in all of that.
So I would say that Tommy Robinson has sort of acted as a
a key element of that suppression.
Thank you. I want to go back to something
that you mentioned earlier, ASA,is that I don't know, I don't
(16:46):
find it a coincidence that the the United Kingdom rally
happened on the same day of the pro Palestine Nakba protests in
London. Because we all know every year
on that day we commemorate the Nakba in the biggest numbers of
the Palestinians, of the pro Palestinians marching through
the streets. Tommy Robinson decided to make a
(17:07):
second big protest on the same day of the Nakba.
Was that a coincidence or something else?
And also the other question I want to ask you also, ASA, is
that I, I was speaking at that protest in the Nakba.
I met you there. And then when I on my way back
to the Juba station, I passed bythe other protest by Tommy
(17:28):
Robinson and I found 10s of thousands of people protesting.
The police said 50,000 people who protested.
Tommy Robertson said like 100 to100.
I don't know how many people he he claimed attended.
But for me, even 50,000 people is too much.
It's too many people who protesting for a hate March like
that. So these people, I, I don't say
that these people are racist or bad, but can these people be won
(17:52):
back into our progressive movement or not?
Or they're lost cause that's a that's.
A good question. Well on the first point, I think
that I, I was talking to one of the head stewards of the the
demonstration on Saturday and hewas telling me that they had
(18:12):
informed the police as long ago as December that that protest
was, was to go ahead on that day.
So, and the NACA demonstration is quite a common demonstration
for it to happen pretty much every year in London.
So the police were well aware that it was going ahead on that
day. And for Tommy Robinson to have
(18:34):
his March, want to have his March on that same day seems to
me like a deliberate provocation, because this
movement is obviously very Pro is well, you know, we've we've
talked about the lucky talked about some of the financial
links there. And it, it is part of this anti
Muslim narrative that they have because they view Palestine as a
(18:55):
Muslim issue of where as we knowthat it's, it's not exclusively
a Muslim issue is for anyone whocares about humanity.
And the fact that of, of what Israel is doing to the
Palestinians. And so, yeah, for them to, to
want to, to combat that is seemsto me a very deliberate
provocation. But that's to be expected, of
(19:17):
course, from these races forces.But more concerning is the fact
that the police agreed for it tohappen and kind of arrange for
it to happen on the same day, whereas they could have, they
could have at a minimum said, well, you can have it on a
Sunday, the following Sunday or something like that.
And they've done things like that in the past.
And so this is kind of an escalation of the police's
(19:38):
actions against these demonstrations.
I would say that they're they'removing to kind of clamp down on
them. And there's been a lot of
political pressure for the police to do that.
And we've seen as well, especially we've seen an
increasing atmosphere within thepublic sector of is kind of
chilling of any kind of pro Palestinian speech.
(19:59):
And so, and to really delegitimize these marches and
any kind of Palestine solidarity, you know, we've seen
successive politicians in both parties, but mostly the
conservatives and now reform calling solidarity marches with
Palestinian hate marches, whereas that was the real hate
March was the the, the far right.
(20:22):
And so there's been this political pressure from first
the Tories and now the Labour government to, to stop protests
happening. And not only this, this protest
or not even mainly this protest of the the Palestine Solidarity
Campaign LED protest, but any kind, especially smaller
protests, which are easier to isolate and attack.
(20:44):
And especially, of course, Palestine action, which is has
been effectively outlawed, although it this, you know, is
being contended to the courts and so forth.
That is where the real kind of legal pressure is.
But we've seen the police kind of bow to that pressure where
they it whereas in the past theywould have maybe pushed back a
little bit, whereas now they haven't.
(21:05):
And I think part of the reason for that is the the infiltration
of of the British state by the Zionist movement really and pro
Israel lobby groups. And we saw for example, in
Birmingham, especially with the police in Birmingham, where the
police decided just non politically, operationally that
they weren't going to allow the Maccabee Tel Aviv football
(21:28):
hooligans from from Israel to come to Birmingham.
They weren't going to allow themto attend the football match
there between the local team andMaccabee Tel Aviv because of
their, their recorders of, of violence and racism.
And as we saw in Amsterdam in 2014, you know, where they
(21:53):
attacked people that they perceived to be Muslims in
Amsterdam and they went on a, a really racist rampage there.
And then it was portrayed in themedia as the opposite, you know,
with, with literal camera footage of Maccabee Tel Aviv
fans attacking people in Amsterdam.
And they were portraying it on Sky News as the opposite, as
(22:14):
Maccabee Tel Aviv fans being attacked because they're Jewish.
It was completely the opposite of the truth.
And so the police in Birmingham made an operational decision.
Well, the match will go ahead, but we won't allow the, the, the
Israeli away fans to, to attend the match.
And that was a sort of, that wasa sensible decision.
And then ultimately the local police chief was was pushed out
(22:34):
because of that was was there was a real kind of witch hunt
against him in the media. And so that has to have
political repercussions and has to has have repercussions on
policing decisions. And I think we can kind of see
some of the indirect results of that.
And in Mark Rowley, the Metropolitan Police
Commissioner's decision to have these two demonstrations happen
(22:56):
at the same time. True, if you are enjoying the
show, please don't forget to hitthe like button and subscribe on
YouTube. And if you want to support our
work, we warmly welcome you to become a paid subscriber.
Your support, it helps us build.Independent Palestinian LED
media in the world which has never needed.
It more find the link. At the description.
(23:17):
Below, and it's shocking. To me, like going back to the
video when they were talking about that told me talking about
the return to to homes, like thethe people to return to their
homes. It's very.
Ironic that they're calling for people to return to their homes
while also being supportive of Israel.
Israel that's creating the like problem for so many people
around the world. We're talking about attacks on
(23:38):
Palestine, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen,Syria, and like the list goes
on. So if you wanted.
Actually, to prevent people fromhaving to be forced to immigrate
to other countries. That's the heart of the empire
and colonialism. You have to be fighting.
The Zionism, you have to be fighting colonialism and
occupation. So it's it's it's very ironic to
(24:01):
see that claim while they don't support, for instance, the right
of return for the Palestinians, but that takes.
Yeah. Well, they might tell you to go
home and your answer might be, well, yeah, I would like to
actually. Take me back to Razzle.
Be the happiest. But we can't because.
You are enabling A genocide backhome.
Unfortunately so. That takes us to another.
(24:23):
Question Like unfortunately the UK government position has been
very complicit and responsible of the genocide.
And even before Keir Starmer have been positioned as the
Prime Minister to this country, he has been like stopping the
calls for ceasefire in November,for instance, just months to one
(24:43):
month after the beginning of thegenocide.
So do you think? That like in the future or is
Keir Starmer's time is coming toan end?
Do you see that coming? I think inevitably the next
Prime Minister of the country will be Nigel Farage.
I think in terms of the Palestine, the Palestinian
'cause we have to be aware of the intricacies that exist
(25:08):
within the Reform UK movement. So they have an internal Zionist
lobby group called Reform UK Friends of Israel, which is
headed by Jason Pearlman. Jason Pearlman was formerly the
media adviser to Isaac Herzog, the Israeli president, and also
he was the adviser to President Rivlin before him.
(25:32):
But then in addition to that, the Reform Friends of Israel was
founded by Roy Zabudovich, who is the son of Peugeot
Zabudovich, who established BICOM, the largest Israel lobby
group in this country. They gained their wealth through
(25:54):
Sultan Systems, which was an Israeli arms company, which was
then absorbed into Albert Systems.
And the other aspect of this is the Jewish Reform Alliance,
which is another internal Zionist lobby group within
Reform, which is headed by Gary Mond.
So Gary Mond of the JNFUK, the JNF, the largest settlement
(26:16):
building body in Palestine, and who has gone on record as
stating that the involvement of his organization and the Reform
UK Friends of Israel is a quote UN quote, real coup within the
organization. I also think that more attention
needs to be given to Robert Jenrick.
Now, he formerly was a key minister in the Conservative
(26:39):
government, and while he was in power, he was quoted as
referring to Aidan Offam as a family friend.
Now, Aidan Offam is the son of Sami Offer.
Sami Offer is one of the richestIsraelis that existed.
And when he died, it came out that the Offer shipping
(26:59):
companies were transporting elite Israeli agents throughout
the region to carry out assassinations within Iran.
Yeah. And those shipping companies
were taken over by Aidan Offer and his brother.
They were divided amongst them. So if Robert Jenrick is a close
family friend of Iron Offer who is part of companies that have
(27:21):
been linked to Israeli intelligence operations in the
region, then we have to look at the formation around reform.
Look at Suella Braverman, for example.
Her husband, Rail Braverman, whois an Israeli, has previously
owned an Israeli falafel companycalled Falafelicious.
And it's a company that was based in the UK, but it clearly
(27:44):
sells falafel or sold falafel assupposedly Israeli cuisine.
And we know that's part of the cultural colonialism.
But in addition to that, Sueta Braverman has gone on record and
stated that she has family members serving in the Israeli
military at the time of the genocide.
So Reform UK, aside from being funded by individuals with
(28:09):
businesses based all across tax havens and individuals that
funded the Conservative Party, there's also the question of
Nick Candy, who's the treasurer at Reform UK, that his name was
included in the Epstein files. I brought that up in a debate
with a reform reforms candidate for London mayor, Layla
(28:30):
Cunningham. And I mentioned that on the
Piers Morgan show. I said, you know, the treasurer
of your party was in the Epsteinfiles.
What was his relationship with the Lady Maxwell?
Not only did she leave the interview, she actually said he
met Epstein for a business deal.Now whether that is true or not,
(28:51):
my understanding is it has sincebeen denied as far as I
understand. But if Reforms candidate for
London mayor said that the treasurer of Reform, who's
responsible for their budget andthe money coming into the party,
actually met Jeffrey Epstein andwas close to him, who as we know
(29:12):
now as fact was an Israeli intelligence asset, then there's
serious question marks about where things are going to go.
I think as horrific as Labour isand has been under Reform,
particularly on the Palestinian issue, you will likely see the
British embassy moved to occupy Jerusalem.
(29:32):
And this is very concerning and should.
Be very concerning to the rich public, like I don't know, like
many public UK officials are becoming Atlanticist and serving
other interests not not interestof the UK people.
Themselves, but on that remark. Itself.
Many of you have seen the video of Zoe Rogers and the I don't
(29:54):
know now there is like somethingin the British justice system
that everyone should be concerned about and thinking of.
So let's. Watch this video together before
talking more about it. So the jury effectively found us
guilty of criminal damage, but the four people who are in
prison right now will be sentenced as terrorists, most
(30:16):
likely. I mean, we weren't allowed to
say the words genocide and ethnic cleansing.
We weren't allowed to justify oreven explain our actions, and
the jury had no idea that there were defences that had been
ruled out. They had no idea that we would
be sentenced as terrorists. Right.
So you faced a trial where you were not allowed to explain why
(30:38):
you had done this. You were not allowed to explain
the background of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
The judge reserved for himself the right to sentence you as
terrorists after the conviction without the jury knowing that.
And your barristers were forbidden from mentioning to the
jury that they were allowed to apply their own conscience,
(30:59):
their own convictions. They didn't have to be guided by
the judge. And throughout all of this, we
as the media were not allowed toreport any of this.
It's shocking to watch this. Like, I don't know the British
people, what do they think aboutthe?
The. Legal system right now it's it's
(31:22):
weird that they're not allowed to say or use or show the
evidence and to justify that they're not allowed to like the
lawyers are not allowed to speakwith the jury.
The jury are not the the the. Public, like the press,
ourselves like we ourselves are not able.
To express or talk about what's.Happening freely or even discuss
it on a. Press level or like media?
(31:44):
Level what is? Illegal.
Yeah. What can we say?
What can't we say? All those things.
So, yeah, the judicial system has really fixed up the the
Palestine action cases. And there there are things I
know about as a reporter that have been happening that I'm
actually not allowed to talk about now today.
But there are some things that we can talk about that.
(32:05):
So, yeah, I mean, what she was Zoe Rogers, one of the the
Filton prisoners who was acquitted.
She, you know, they were involved in the action against
the Filton factory just outside Bristol where they smashed up
drones inside the Elbit's weapons factory.
(32:25):
And you know, she, she very proudly talked about it in her
own words. Her and Jordan, who was the
other former prisoner on screen there.
And the, but there was four others of, of the comrades who,
who were, who were convicted of criminal damage, although they
were acquitted of more serious charges.
(32:47):
And we, we wait and see next month what the sentence is going
to be. And it seems like the sentence
is going to be quite high. And the reason for that is
because the judge in that case, Jeremy Johnson, has ruled that
there is a so-called terrorist connection.
They weren't charged with any, anything under the Terrorism
Act. But nonetheless, he's ruled that
(33:08):
there's been a terrorist connection.
And what we, the jury was not allowed to know because until
recently it was banned from reporting it is, is the fact
that there was that so-called terrorist connection, which
means that there is going to be lifelong implications for these,
these 4 prisoners. You know, even there is kind of
(33:30):
a negative mark on their name for life if, if there is this
so-called terrorist connection, because it means they will serve
more of their sentences in prison than would other be
otherwise normal, be normal for a criminal damage conviction.
Like if this if there was no terrorist connection, they
would, they would all, they would be let out because they
already served 18 months in prison, right?
(33:53):
So it would be time served then and they would be out.
But with this so-called terror connection, it means that
there's actually going to be lifelong implications for them
because they they kind of markedas quote UN quote, terrorists
for the rest of their lives, even after they're let out and
they're supposed to kind of revoke their so-called political
ideology, right? So that means, yeah, so.
(34:14):
And they bought everything to the police connect their.
Devices for years. Exactly, exactly.
Very, very, very restrictive anddraconian circumstances.
So, you know, and, and it is shocking, as you said that the,
the, the jury was not allowed toknow this.
They weren't even allowed to know that that's what these
prisoners were facing and that it with the British public was
(34:38):
not allowed to know that. So, you know, we, we've that's
just one of many ways that the the whole case against the
Palestine action prisoners is being really censored.
So one of these prisoners, his name is Omar Khalid, you know if
you know about him or not, Kareem, but he is one of these
(34:59):
protesters who wasn't present and now he's suffering real
health issues. So as this Novara media reported
about it saying that person action activist forced to crawl
to toilet like a wounded dog that was in prison.
Prison staff accused Omar Khalidof making up his muscle wasting
(35:23):
condition. Now now, Omar Khalid suffers
from serious, serious health implications.
He He suffers from something called muscular dystrophy, a
rare genetic condition that is incurable but requires regular
exercise and high protein meals.And he doesn't do any of that in
(35:44):
a prison. Will some of his family and
friends say that his his situation, his medical condition
now is beyond repair? And that's really, really
alarming. And I think people should know
about it. I mean people who are.
As a hunger strikers as well, sohe really sacrificed a lot.
Yes, and. He wasn't allowed a medical.
Bail under circumstances. Yeah, I mean, people who are
(36:08):
investigated, people who are in prison, at least they should be
treated with respect, with the humanity, not be left to crawl
like, like dogs. It's a horrible thing to say.
So what is happening in our judicial system here?
What is going on? OK, so first we have to look at
(36:28):
two different understandings of this society.
On one side there are those thatsay there are 10 Israeli arms
factories in this country. There's nothing we can do.
On the other side, there are those that say there are 10
Israeli arms factories in this country.
(36:48):
This is a target rich environment.
Under the Arms Trade Treaty, Britain is obligated not to make
sales or exports if they believethey may be used in the
violations, in violation of international humanitarian law.
(37:10):
So therefore exports to Israel are not legal.
Now, when that's brought into a court of law and juries are
given access to that informationalmost consistently, they side
with those that have attempted to stop that process.
So what you have here is an unprecedented situation that has
(37:35):
not happened in any other Western country, Nowhere else
have you seen four arm sites forIsrael's largest arms company
shut down and permanently vacated.
Now, how do you quell? And this was a process that will
have involved thousands of people, OK, thousands of people
in different ways. Now you have a situation where
(37:58):
those that have been caught in certain iconic cases are
essentially behind enemy lines and are being punished and
subject to what some say falls in the description of torture,
according to the United Nations.Now what is being sought is to
(38:22):
make an example of several individuals ruin their lives in
order to then show that example to larger groups of people
outside who may think that getting involved in something
like this would be a wise decision.
(38:43):
Jeremy Johnson, it's important that we are absolutely clear,
has a history of serving the security state.
He is someone that was a lawyer for MI 6, someone that has the
highest level of vetting possible as a special advocate
the the ability to see secret evidence held in cases.
(39:05):
In addition to that he has a position working on the warrants
for the activities of the intelligence services.
Also. He is ultimately someone who in
this position in this case, and it's my honestly held view that
he was carrying out that servicefor the same forces that have
(39:28):
been mobilizing against the movement over the previous
decades. But never before have you seen
so much achieved in such a shortspace of time.
And so, you know, you also have to remember that on this
question of sovereignty, Britishpolice hack the phones of people
(39:50):
in this country using Celebrite.It's an Israeli intelligence
firm. According to the contracts for
Celebrite that Australian Lebanese lawyer Nick Hannah has
had access to, they stipulate that Celebrite has access to all
the information gathered throughits devices.
In addition to that, you have Nice Systems, which has an
(40:13):
element of its operations which is a subsidiary of Elbit
Systems. Which manages the interface
between the Crown Prosecution Service and Police services,
right? So this is a company which was
founded by 5 alumni of Israeli Unit 8200 who seems to have
direct access to information being exchanged by the police
(40:36):
and the CPS. And also NICE Systems has a role
in investigations in this country.
So we are talking about the integration of the security
forces of Israel and Britain in a very clear and tangible way.
We have here now over the last six years is established a force
(41:01):
of resistance to that in a direct, material, systematised
and organised way. There have been massive prices
paid by a few, but it's important to remember that you
have also seen very unprecedented things happen in
the other direction. I also think of someone like
(41:22):
William Plaster, who was one of the film in 24, which is now the
film in 25, who while he was held on remand, his mother
passed away. And there are 1,000,000 stories
of those who have, out of a great need to show love to
others, made sacrifices. Thank you.
(41:43):
Thank. You very much, Loki.
It's because we're running out of time.
We'll have to end with this eclipse that came to us from
Gaza, from our contributors in Gaza, Ali and Hoda.
Let's watch this video together to understand the situation in
Gaza. Hello everyone I am Alice Cake.
And I am Hondus Cake and we are both Reuters from Gaza.
How does someone whose entire. Job is to save lives.
(42:07):
End up unable to to save their own.
Lives civil. Defense workers are not.
Superheroes. They are ordinary people.
Who run into the? Fire to give.
Someone else, a chance to breathe behind.
These yellow jackets there is. A human being.
These men have families who waitfor them.
These men carry a heavy guilt and this.
(42:29):
Guilt is the guilt of helplessness.
It eats other souls. Each time they hear the screams
of children and women from underthe Rebel and they can't do
anything because they know that they have no access to any heavy
machinery or to any proper equipment to lift.
The Rebel. Since the genocide began, around
135 civil defense workers have been killed.
(42:53):
Some were killed while being displaced with their families,
others while they were trying torescue people from under the
rebel. Others were also killed while
trying to get food for their children after spending the
whole day rescuing people. One of these civil defense
workers was Ali Omar, who was killed while rescuing a little
(43:18):
girl from a bombed building in Al Sabra neighborhood.
He was holding the hands of of his colleague Mohammad Azam.
Then an Israeli airstrike hit all of the people that were
there. Mohammad Azam, when he regained
his consciousness, he realized he was just still holding Ali's
(43:39):
hands. Only his hands.
Since the beginning of. This so-called ceasefire since.
Last October more than 10,000. People have been deported, are
killed. Or missing under the Rebel, the
civil defencemen couldn't get them out.
Because. The Israeli occupation forces
haven't allowed necessary heavy machinery.
To enter. Gaza and many international
(44:00):
debuts, including The Intercept,documented.
How? These men have been working with
their bare hands and. With the very basic.
And simple equipments, they havemanaged to recover around 2000
bodies. Families would They threw the
rubble. For one month when they reached
the bottom. They would call the civil.
(44:20):
Defence men to come. And to pull out what?
Remains and most of the time. They were.
They were just. Finding skeleton.
Days ago I met Abdullah Najdalawi, a civil defense
worker. He told me most brutal massacre
he has ever witnessed was Al Tabiain school massacre where
around 100 people were killed while they were performing at
(44:44):
Fajita. There was a blood that is
reaching above his ankles. Whenever he wanted to lean
against any wall, his hands weretouching the flesh of people.
Until this day, he told me that he is still hearing the screams
of children and women beneath the rubble.
(45:07):
These men are risking everythingto save what remains of our
humanity. So there is thing you can do.
Is to refuse to look away. So thank you so much for adding
Hoda for this very insightful and powerful video.
It's like for us for seeing specifically from Gaza civil
(45:27):
defense workers means a lot. I remember when our friend
myself was killed and that Noah had some of his colleagues that
we've seen in the video have gone immediately to help
retrieve their remove, like hopefully removing the rebel to
to rescue them. After the bombardment, along
with the brothers of Mysera, Mohammad Al Muayed and they were
(45:47):
bombed by Israeli air strike, killing one of the paramedics
and also the two brothers of Mysera.
So we know how difficult. The situation those very
respectful paramedics are going through.
To to try to save. The lives of our beloved ones
and how the world is letting them like without.
So Israel is not allowing TV machinery to help them as well
(46:10):
as not allowing that resume of the removing the rebel and
removing the the the debris or the body parts from underneath
the rebel but another. Thing that's very important to.
Mention is that Hoda and Ali yesterday were hoping to video
us a beautiful. Video about the.
Beach and was about the the fisherman life but also the
(46:32):
struggles that they are going through within the June side
time and the the so-called ceasefire now.
But they couldn't because the. Situation is becoming more and
more difficult and intense. Yeah, it's things are getting
escalated. Israel's ground invading more
and more of the. East of Gaza.
They're taking more of the land,they've taken already more than
(46:53):
5065% of the land and they're going inside more and more,
while at the same time the escalations, the bombardments is
more than 15 in the last week. Only among them, some people we
we also know. So things are getting.
More and more difficult on the ground in Gaza and and we need
(47:15):
to remember that the civil defence workers are doing a
great job. But they need to be seen.
They need to be. Saved.
They need to be spoken, spoken about.
So we're very happy to have bothof you here today.
It was a very insightful, powerful discussion and
conversation and hopefully we'llhave more of such discussions
(47:37):
with both of you inshallah, alsoin the future.
So thank you so much for. Coming with us this week and.
For everyone who have been watching.
Us to the end of this episode thank you so much for staying
and. Hopefully we'll see you next.
Week Wednesday, 7:00 PM Have a good day night, take care.
I think inevitably the next Prime Minister of the country
will be Nigel Farage. I think as horrific as Labour is
and has been under reform, particularly on the Palestinian
issue, you will likely see the British embassy moved to occupy
Jerusalem. Tommy Robinson decided to make
(00:20):
his second big protest on the same day of the Nekba.
Was that a coincidence? We've seen successive
politicians in both parties, butmostly the Conservatives and now
reform calling solidarity marches with Palestinian hate
marches, whereas that was the real hate March, was the the the
far right. For Tommy Robinson to have his
(00:41):
March, want to have his March onthat same day, seems to me like
a deliberate provocation. In terms of the Palestine, the
Palestinian 'cause we have to beaware of the intricacies that
exist within the Reform UK movement.
So they have an internal Zionistlobby group called Reform UK
(01:03):
Friends of Israel, which is headed by Jason Pearlman.
Now Jason Pearlman was formerly the media adviser to Isaac
Herzog, Israeli President, and also he was the advisor to
President Rivlin before him. So if you wanted.
Actually, to prevent people fromhaving to be forced to immigrate
(01:24):
to other countries. That's the heart of the empire
and colonialism. You have to be fighting.
The Zionism you have to be fighting colonialism and
occupation. Hello and welcome back to
Palestine Deep Dive. Today we are joined in the
studio by two special guests, the legendary hip hop artist,
activist and journalist Loki. Alongside one of Britain's
(01:47):
bravest investigative journalists and authors, the
brilliant Isawan Stanley from the award-winning Electronic
Intifada. In this episode of the world's
first Palestinian Chacho, we will be diving into some of the
biggest. Political stories.
Shaping in Britain and Palestinetoday from Tommy Robinson to the
rise of the far right across theUK.
(02:07):
To the trail of Palestine actionactivists and the political
record and legacy of Keir Starmer.
We will also be hearing directlyfrom our contributors in Gaza
who will be highlighting the life saving work of Gaza's civil
defence teams as they continue rescuing Palestinians from
beneath the rubble and as amid Israel's ongoing bombardment and
(02:29):
genocide of the. Strip.
Stay tuned as we cover all of this and more.
And if if you value our independent journalism on
Palestine, don't forget to like this video, subscribe to the
channel and share the episodes. Thank.
You so much for joining us here in the studio.
It's it's a pleasure. We had both of you before.
We had you many times, OK. And people love you, I have to
(02:52):
say. I love you.
We had also ASAP before, but we're very lucky to have you.
Here together, yeah. There is a lot we want to talk
about today. I wish we have good time to talk
about everything, but there has been a lot going on during the
past two weeks. During the past week in
particular, one of them was the Tommy Robinson rally in London
(03:15):
and also the Pro Palestine Nakbaprotest in London.
So we want to watch this video and then see.
Let's so share the first video, guys.
What would happen if you become a Prime Minister tomorrow?
What would you change? I would stop Islam.
I'd end foreign funding in this country.
(03:36):
All the migrants will be taken out of the hotels and sent back
tomorrow by the military. I would reverse.
I would have remigration. It's time for many Muslims to
leave this country. If they're not going to be very
similar, it's time to go on. You've got your homes to go to.
This is our home. We've got nowhere to go to.
We're not allowing it to change any longer.
You've seen today people are fedup.
Then people are fed up, fed. Up national sovereignty, safety
(03:57):
and security. A.
National identity. Every word here is a stupid.
Every word needs unpacking. There is a lot to talk about and
unpack, but can I ask both of you about your first reaction to
this future? Well, the irony of Tommy
(04:18):
Robinson saying that he would stop foreign funding is really
interesting here because when you look at when his first
organization, the English Defence League, was registered
on Company's house, it was registered by a former Israeli
soldier by the name of Roberta Moore.
Now not long after that, she changed the name from the
English Defence League to the Jewish Defence League.
(04:40):
The second time it was registered on Company's house
was by Sheila Helen Gawa and sheoriginally registered it as the
English Defence League and then changed the name to the English
and Jewish Defence League. Now the Jewish Defence League
was founded by Meer Kahan in theUnited States originally.
He then moved to occupied Palestine and founded what they
(05:02):
called JDL Israel. Now, JDL Israel became the Kah
Party, which was the party of Itamar Bengavir.
And so you see this clear trajectory, which it seems to
me, Tommy Robinson, in his earlyrallies outside the Israeli
embassy, he was accompanied by an individual by the name of
(05:23):
Rabbi Nachim Shifrin. Now, Nachim Shifrin was the
driver for Meerkahan. And so you see the clear link
between what was the JDL and Tommy Robinson's organization
we're talking about all the way back 15 years ago, 15 plus years
ago. So what's happened since then?
Is he someone who has been funded handsomely by Robert
(05:46):
Shulman, who is on the board of was on the board for the Friends
of the IDF directly funding the Israeli military?
Of course, he's been funded by the Middle East Forum, which is
headed by Greg Roman, who is a former employee of the Israeli
Ministry of Defence and the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
So when he's talking about foreign funding, it's almost as
(06:08):
if what he represents is a purely organic expression of
something that already was present in the society.
Now, it's to some extent true that his ideas do exist
independently, but what has happened with him is he, as he
(06:30):
put it, has been created by EzraLevant.
And he directly references the funding from Robert Shillman in
the speech where he talks about that.
And so they accentuate and ultimately seek to exaggerate
some of these elements. And another interesting thing
about the United Kingdom rally is that it was attended by
(06:53):
Jonathan Cornicus, who was exactly.
I think this is part of this whole kind of attempt to
manufacture a clash of civilizations and especially
having these two demonstrations manufacturing it so that this is
2 demonstrations in London on the same say.
It's really interesting, Loki, how you bring this, this history
of battle, Roberta more back because I think it's kind of a,
(07:15):
it's kind of a forgotten part ofthe history of Tommy Robinson
and the ADL, The, the, the, the JDL and the EDL.
Because she, as you said, she named her organization after my
Kahana's terrorist organization in, in the United States, the
JDL. And Kahane was somebody who was
(07:35):
recognised for the longest time by the FBI as being, it was
listed as a terrorist group for,for a while.
You know, they carried, people forget it carried out this
bombing campaign in the United States in, in the 70s and the
80s. You know, it was targeted at the
Soviets and at Arab targets. At one point they attacked
Edward Saeed's office and she that's what she was kind of
(07:58):
seeking the, the lineage of and she was one of the kind of in a
way a forgotten Co founder of, of, of the EDL.
Later on she made it into this so-called Jewish division of the
EDL. Later she fell out with Tommy
Robinson, but I remember covering her activities around
about a decade ago, I think it was 2014 or 2015.
I wrote a couple of articles about it where she, she went
(08:19):
along to, there was a very smalllocal Palestinian literature
festival in North London and she, she attacked it and has
basically assaulted someone. She almost got sent down for it.
But the, the CPS, the prosecutors, actually they, they
fumble the whole thing and she got away with it.
Her and her accomplice got away with it.
So, yeah, this is someone who's very dangerous, someone who's
(08:41):
very violent and has been involved in, in the occupation
in the West Bank in different ways.
So I think it, Loki's absolutelyright.
Like it's not just, yes, there is of course there is these
racist tendencies within Englishsociety, but this whole
phenomenon of this far right, it's not a grassroots thing at
all. It's something that's
(09:01):
manufactured and out with a lot of money.
You know, a lot of money has to go into this often foreign
funding, as you said, like that's, that's the irony of, of
Tommy Robinson. 'S comments.
About foreign funding. Yeah, and that takes us to the
many question, who's Romy? Who's Tommy Robinson and who's?
He funded by and what's his agenda?
(09:21):
Why is he doing all? Of that.
So ultimately his agenda is, as ASA alluded to, to import this
clash of civilizations mentalityand a sort of determinism about
a society which developed off the back of British colonial
(09:42):
endeavour and imperialism. Britain didn't have an empire.
Britain was an empire occupied 14,000,000 square miles of the
world after World War One. World War One itself was
dependent on the use of porters from the outer colonial reaches
to transport the weapons back and forth from the front lines.
(10:03):
Huge amount of Indians for for Britain in World War One.
And then of course you have in the aftermath of World War Two,
people coming from the outer reaches of the British Empire to
help build the NHS and to establish really the welfare
state that protected many peoplebefore.
And it was the British Nationality Act that stated that
(10:26):
anyone who was from any part of the British Empire was in
essence a British citizen. It wasn't until the Commonwealth
Act in 1962 that that changed. Now what he represents I would
say is a grappling among the population here to come to terms
with a new shape of the world. Britain being the world's number
(10:47):
one economy was based on the deindustrialisation and de
development of other societies. If you look at the share of the
global economy that India and China had prior to the 1600s and
and the establishment of the East India Company, it was a
massive section of the global economy.
(11:07):
Britain went into both of those societies, attempted to use them
as captive markets mainly, but also resources extraction and
also free labour in a lot of those cases.
And so with that, this place which geographically is limited
in terms of land mass, in terms of resources, was able to impose
(11:30):
itself as the world's number oneeconomy.
Now we're in a situation where Britain is really seeing a world
with the 20 fastest growing economies.
Are all of them non European? Many of them are former British
colonies. And English as a lingua franca
of business is not even a guarantee going forward.
(11:53):
China is definitely going to overtake the United States as
the world's number one economic power within the years to come.
And so people are grappling withthat.
At the same time their own country has been hollowed out in
terms of state assets. So the things that they took for
granted, like the National Health Service, the rail, mail,
(12:15):
water, these things have gone from being key parts of daily
life here that were publicly owned to being siphoned off and
compartmentalised into private entities, in some cases run by
state companies of other countries.
During the EU period, you have the trains run by German state
(12:37):
companies. The EDF is a French state
company, for example. But what you also have is
companies run and owned essentially from tax havens now.
So key elements of the public assets in this country are now
owned from abroad. There's not really been an
increase in real wages since 2008.
(12:59):
You also have a situation where 14 million people in the country
are in poverty. A million of them are children.
7 out of 10 of the children who are grown up in poverty are in
families where one parent is working.
You've had an attack on the trade unions, which has directly
led to a further disparity between the richest and the
poorest within the society. A small disparity between
(13:23):
richest and poorest in any society is directly correlated
to collective happiness. And that's.
Oxford University lecturer DannyDorling has found that.
You look at Finland, you look atNorway, you look at Sweden,
where there's a smaller disparity between the top 1% of
the population and the and the percentage they take of the
(13:43):
national income and the rest of the population.
You have greater levels of collective happiness.
So people are disgruntled, more angry than they've ever been,
and they are looking for explanations for why they're in
the situation they're in. And so Tommy Robinson, rather
than focusing on, for example, the US companies who are
(14:06):
wreaking havoc in the National Health Service and are actually
the reason that you can't see a doctor when you need to, he is
pushing a form of, I would say, horizontal hatred and vertical
solidarity. Now the horizontal hatred goes
against the person on the same level as you that you can see on
the street, and the vertical solidarity essentially goes
(14:28):
upwards with the elites that he's really a creature of.
And behind all of that steps in the Israeli aspect where they
look at this society which has established very strong
communities. You look at a community like
Ladbroke Grove, you look at community like Southall, you
(14:50):
look at community like Brixton. These are culturally confident
communities because there was political struggle within them
to assert their rights. And so in order to push back the
support for Palestine in this society, which is partly a by
product of the cultural confidence that you do have here
partly, and also to drive a wedge between what they call the
(15:15):
Red and Green Alliance. Now if you look at the
mobilisation against the Iraq war in 2003, by some estimations
you have 3 million people on thestreets at that time.
Now at that time that would haverepresented around 5% of the
population. You have those 5% of the
population which are considered to be the leftist and Muslim
(15:37):
organisations working together. If they were to have some sort
of block in which they vote in the same way, then they play a
greater influence in the political system.
So they have to be demobilised, Muslims have to be disempowered
and scared from getting involvedin politics.
(15:59):
They have to be smeared in the media.
They have to be spied on by Prevent Leftist, have to be
infiltrated by the spy cops and the special demonstration Squad
and things like that. They also have to be smeared in
the media. They also have to be blacklisted
from jobs. And that's how you create a
system of a hierarchy of political subjectivity whereby
(16:24):
if you fall within those spaces,particularly support for
Palestine, which is a red line in all of that.
So I would say that Tommy Robinson has sort of acted as a
a key element of that suppression.
Thank you. I want to go back to something
that you mentioned earlier, ASA,is that I don't know, I don't
(16:46):
find it a coincidence that the the United Kingdom rally
happened on the same day of the pro Palestine Nakba protests in
London. Because we all know every year
on that day we commemorate the Nakba in the biggest numbers of
the Palestinians, of the pro Palestinians marching through
the streets. Tommy Robinson decided to make a
(17:07):
second big protest on the same day of the Nakba.
Was that a coincidence or something else?
And also the other question I want to ask you also, ASA, is
that I, I was speaking at that protest in the Nakba.
I met you there. And then when I on my way back
to the Juba station, I passed bythe other protest by Tommy
(17:28):
Robinson and I found 10s of thousands of people protesting.
The police said 50,000 people who protested.
Tommy Robertson said like 100 to100.
I don't know how many people he he claimed attended.
But for me, even 50,000 people is too much.
It's too many people who protesting for a hate March like
that. So these people, I, I don't say
that these people are racist or bad, but can these people be won
(17:52):
back into our progressive movement or not?
Or they're lost cause that's a that's.
A good question. Well on the first point, I think
that I, I was talking to one of the head stewards of the the
demonstration on Saturday and hewas telling me that they had
(18:12):
informed the police as long ago as December that that protest
was, was to go ahead on that day.
So, and the NACA demonstration is quite a common demonstration
for it to happen pretty much every year in London.
So the police were well aware that it was going ahead on that
day. And for Tommy Robinson to have
(18:34):
his March, want to have his March on that same day seems to
me like a deliberate provocation, because this
movement is obviously very Pro is well, you know, we've we've
talked about the lucky talked about some of the financial
links there. And it, it is part of this anti
Muslim narrative that they have because they view Palestine as a
(18:55):
Muslim issue of where as we knowthat it's, it's not exclusively
a Muslim issue is for anyone whocares about humanity.
And the fact that of, of what Israel is doing to the
Palestinians. And so, yeah, for them to, to
want to, to combat that is seemsto me a very deliberate
provocation. But that's to be expected, of
(19:17):
course, from these races forces.But more concerning is the fact
that the police agreed for it tohappen and kind of arrange for
it to happen on the same day, whereas they could have, they
could have at a minimum said, well, you can have it on a
Sunday, the following Sunday or something like that.
And they've done things like that in the past.
And so this is kind of an escalation of the police's
(19:38):
actions against these demonstrations.
I would say that they're they'removing to kind of clamp down on
them. And there's been a lot of
political pressure for the police to do that.
And we've seen as well, especially we've seen an
increasing atmosphere within thepublic sector of is kind of
chilling of any kind of pro Palestinian speech.
(19:59):
And so, and to really delegitimize these marches and
any kind of Palestine solidarity, you know, we've seen
successive politicians in both parties, but mostly the
conservatives and now reform calling solidarity marches with
Palestinian hate marches, whereas that was the real hate
March was the the, the far right.
(20:22):
And so there's been this political pressure from first
the Tories and now the Labour government to, to stop protests
happening. And not only this, this protest
or not even mainly this protest of the the Palestine Solidarity
Campaign LED protest, but any kind, especially smaller
protests, which are easier to isolate and attack.
(20:44):
And especially, of course, Palestine action, which is has
been effectively outlawed, although it this, you know, is
being contended to the courts and so forth.
That is where the real kind of legal pressure is.
But we've seen the police kind of bow to that pressure where
they it whereas in the past theywould have maybe pushed back a
little bit, whereas now they haven't.
(21:05):
And I think part of the reason for that is the the infiltration
of of the British state by the Zionist movement really and pro
Israel lobby groups. And we saw for example, in
Birmingham, especially with the police in Birmingham, where the
police decided just non politically, operationally that
they weren't going to allow the Maccabee Tel Aviv football
(21:28):
hooligans from from Israel to come to Birmingham.
They weren't going to allow themto attend the football match
there between the local team andMaccabee Tel Aviv because of
their, their recorders of, of violence and racism.
And as we saw in Amsterdam in 2014, you know, where they
(21:53):
attacked people that they perceived to be Muslims in
Amsterdam and they went on a, a really racist rampage there.
And then it was portrayed in themedia as the opposite, you know,
with, with literal camera footage of Maccabee Tel Aviv
fans attacking people in Amsterdam.
And they were portraying it on Sky News as the opposite, as
(22:14):
Maccabee Tel Aviv fans being attacked because they're Jewish.
It was completely the opposite of the truth.
And so the police in Birmingham made an operational decision.
Well, the match will go ahead, but we won't allow the, the, the
Israeli away fans to, to attend the match.
And that was a sort of, that wasa sensible decision.
And then ultimately the local police chief was was pushed out
(22:34):
because of that was was there was a real kind of witch hunt
against him in the media. And so that has to have
political repercussions and has to has have repercussions on
policing decisions. And I think we can kind of see
some of the indirect results of that.
And in Mark Rowley, the Metropolitan Police
Commissioner's decision to have these two demonstrations happen
(22:56):
at the same time. True, if you are enjoying the
show, please don't forget to hitthe like button and subscribe on
YouTube. And if you want to support our
work, we warmly welcome you to become a paid subscriber.
Your support, it helps us build.Independent Palestinian LED
media in the world which has never needed.
It more find the link. At the description.
(23:17):
Below, and it's shocking. To me, like going back to the
video when they were talking about that told me talking about
the return to to homes, like thethe people to return to their
homes. It's very.
Ironic that they're calling for people to return to their homes
while also being supportive of Israel.
Israel that's creating the like problem for so many people
around the world. We're talking about attacks on
(23:38):
Palestine, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen,Syria, and like the list goes
on. So if you wanted.
Actually, to prevent people fromhaving to be forced to immigrate
to other countries. That's the heart of the empire
and colonialism. You have to be fighting.
The Zionism, you have to be fighting colonialism and
occupation. So it's it's it's very ironic to
(24:01):
see that claim while they don't support, for instance, the right
of return for the Palestinians, but that takes.
Yeah. Well, they might tell you to go
home and your answer might be, well, yeah, I would like to
actually. Take me back to Razzle.
Be the happiest. But we can't because.
You are enabling A genocide backhome.
Unfortunately so. That takes us to another.
(24:23):
Question Like unfortunately the UK government position has been
very complicit and responsible of the genocide.
And even before Keir Starmer have been positioned as the
Prime Minister to this country, he has been like stopping the
calls for ceasefire in November,for instance, just months to one
(24:43):
month after the beginning of thegenocide.
So do you think? That like in the future or is
Keir Starmer's time is coming toan end?
Do you see that coming? I think inevitably the next
Prime Minister of the country will be Nigel Farage.
I think in terms of the Palestine, the Palestinian
'cause we have to be aware of the intricacies that exist
(25:08):
within the Reform UK movement. So they have an internal Zionist
lobby group called Reform UK Friends of Israel, which is
headed by Jason Pearlman. Jason Pearlman was formerly the
media adviser to Isaac Herzog, the Israeli president, and also
he was the adviser to President Rivlin before him.
(25:32):
But then in addition to that, the Reform Friends of Israel was
founded by Roy Zabudovich, who is the son of Peugeot
Zabudovich, who established BICOM, the largest Israel lobby
group in this country. They gained their wealth through
(25:54):
Sultan Systems, which was an Israeli arms company, which was
then absorbed into Albert Systems.
And the other aspect of this is the Jewish Reform Alliance,
which is another internal Zionist lobby group within
Reform, which is headed by Gary Mond.
So Gary Mond of the JNFUK, the JNF, the largest settlement
(26:16):
building body in Palestine, and who has gone on record as
stating that the involvement of his organization and the Reform
UK Friends of Israel is a quote UN quote, real coup within the
organization. I also think that more attention
needs to be given to Robert Jenrick.
Now, he formerly was a key minister in the Conservative
(26:39):
government, and while he was in power, he was quoted as
referring to Aidan Offam as a family friend.
Now, Aidan Offam is the son of Sami Offer.
Sami Offer is one of the richestIsraelis that existed.
And when he died, it came out that the Offer shipping
(26:59):
companies were transporting elite Israeli agents throughout
the region to carry out assassinations within Iran.
Yeah. And those shipping companies
were taken over by Aidan Offer and his brother.
They were divided amongst them. So if Robert Jenrick is a close
family friend of Iron Offer who is part of companies that have
(27:21):
been linked to Israeli intelligence operations in the
region, then we have to look at the formation around reform.
Look at Suella Braverman, for example.
Her husband, Rail Braverman, whois an Israeli, has previously
owned an Israeli falafel companycalled Falafelicious.
And it's a company that was based in the UK, but it clearly
(27:44):
sells falafel or sold falafel assupposedly Israeli cuisine.
And we know that's part of the cultural colonialism.
But in addition to that, Sueta Braverman has gone on record and
stated that she has family members serving in the Israeli
military at the time of the genocide.
So Reform UK, aside from being funded by individuals with
(28:09):
businesses based all across tax havens and individuals that
funded the Conservative Party, there's also the question of
Nick Candy, who's the treasurer at Reform UK, that his name was
included in the Epstein files. I brought that up in a debate
with a reform reforms candidate for London mayor, Layla
(28:30):
Cunningham. And I mentioned that on the
Piers Morgan show. I said, you know, the treasurer
of your party was in the Epsteinfiles.
What was his relationship with the Lady Maxwell?
Not only did she leave the interview, she actually said he
met Epstein for a business deal.Now whether that is true or not,
(28:51):
my understanding is it has sincebeen denied as far as I
understand. But if Reforms candidate for
London mayor said that the treasurer of Reform, who's
responsible for their budget andthe money coming into the party,
actually met Jeffrey Epstein andwas close to him, who as we know
(29:12):
now as fact was an Israeli intelligence asset, then there's
serious question marks about where things are going to go.
I think as horrific as Labour isand has been under Reform,
particularly on the Palestinian issue, you will likely see the
British embassy moved to occupy Jerusalem.
(29:32):
And this is very concerning and should.
Be very concerning to the rich public, like I don't know, like
many public UK officials are becoming Atlanticist and serving
other interests not not interestof the UK people.
Themselves, but on that remark. Itself.
Many of you have seen the video of Zoe Rogers and the I don't
(29:54):
know now there is like somethingin the British justice system
that everyone should be concerned about and thinking of.
So let's. Watch this video together before
talking more about it. So the jury effectively found us
guilty of criminal damage, but the four people who are in
prison right now will be sentenced as terrorists, most
(30:16):
likely. I mean, we weren't allowed to
say the words genocide and ethnic cleansing.
We weren't allowed to justify oreven explain our actions, and
the jury had no idea that there were defences that had been
ruled out. They had no idea that we would
be sentenced as terrorists. Right.
So you faced a trial where you were not allowed to explain why
(30:38):
you had done this. You were not allowed to explain
the background of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
The judge reserved for himself the right to sentence you as
terrorists after the conviction without the jury knowing that.
And your barristers were forbidden from mentioning to the
jury that they were allowed to apply their own conscience,
(30:59):
their own convictions. They didn't have to be guided by
the judge. And throughout all of this, we
as the media were not allowed toreport any of this.
It's shocking to watch this. Like, I don't know the British
people, what do they think aboutthe?
The. Legal system right now it's it's
(31:22):
weird that they're not allowed to say or use or show the
evidence and to justify that they're not allowed to like the
lawyers are not allowed to speakwith the jury.
The jury are not the the the. Public, like the press,
ourselves like we ourselves are not able.
To express or talk about what's.Happening freely or even discuss
it on a. Press level or like media?
(31:44):
Level what is? Illegal.
Yeah. What can we say?
What can't we say? All those things.
So, yeah, the judicial system has really fixed up the the
Palestine action cases. And there there are things I
know about as a reporter that have been happening that I'm
actually not allowed to talk about now today.
But there are some things that we can talk about that.
(32:05):
So, yeah, I mean, what she was Zoe Rogers, one of the the
Filton prisoners who was acquitted.
She, you know, they were involved in the action against
the Filton factory just outside Bristol where they smashed up
drones inside the Elbit's weapons factory.
(32:25):
And you know, she, she very proudly talked about it in her
own words. Her and Jordan, who was the
other former prisoner on screen there.
And the, but there was four others of, of the comrades who,
who were, who were convicted of criminal damage, although they
were acquitted of more serious charges.
(32:47):
And we, we wait and see next month what the sentence is going
to be. And it seems like the sentence
is going to be quite high. And the reason for that is
because the judge in that case, Jeremy Johnson, has ruled that
there is a so-called terrorist connection.
They weren't charged with any, anything under the Terrorism
Act. But nonetheless, he's ruled that
(33:08):
there's been a terrorist connection.
And what we, the jury was not allowed to know because until
recently it was banned from reporting it is, is the fact
that there was that so-called terrorist connection, which
means that there is going to be lifelong implications for these,
these 4 prisoners. You know, even there is kind of
(33:30):
a negative mark on their name for life if, if there is this
so-called terrorist connection, because it means they will serve
more of their sentences in prison than would other be
otherwise normal, be normal for a criminal damage conviction.
Like if this if there was no terrorist connection, they
would, they would all, they would be let out because they
already served 18 months in prison, right?
(33:53):
So it would be time served then and they would be out.
But with this so-called terror connection, it means that
there's actually going to be lifelong implications for them
because they they kind of markedas quote UN quote, terrorists
for the rest of their lives, even after they're let out and
they're supposed to kind of revoke their so-called political
ideology, right? So that means, yeah, so.
(34:14):
And they bought everything to the police connect their.
Devices for years. Exactly, exactly.
Very, very, very restrictive anddraconian circumstances.
So, you know, and, and it is shocking, as you said that the,
the, the jury was not allowed toknow this.
They weren't even allowed to know that that's what these
prisoners were facing and that it with the British public was
(34:38):
not allowed to know that. So, you know, we, we've that's
just one of many ways that the the whole case against the
Palestine action prisoners is being really censored.
So one of these prisoners, his name is Omar Khalid, you know if
you know about him or not, Kareem, but he is one of these
(34:59):
protesters who wasn't present and now he's suffering real
health issues. So as this Novara media reported
about it saying that person action activist forced to crawl
to toilet like a wounded dog that was in prison.
Prison staff accused Omar Khalidof making up his muscle wasting
(35:23):
condition. Now now, Omar Khalid suffers
from serious, serious health implications.
He He suffers from something called muscular dystrophy, a
rare genetic condition that is incurable but requires regular
exercise and high protein meals.And he doesn't do any of that in
(35:44):
a prison. Will some of his family and
friends say that his his situation, his medical condition
now is beyond repair? And that's really, really
alarming. And I think people should know
about it. I mean people who are.
As a hunger strikers as well, sohe really sacrificed a lot.
Yes, and. He wasn't allowed a medical.
Bail under circumstances. Yeah, I mean, people who are
(36:08):
investigated, people who are in prison, at least they should be
treated with respect, with the humanity, not be left to crawl
like, like dogs. It's a horrible thing to say.
So what is happening in our judicial system here?
What is going on? OK, so first we have to look at
(36:28):
two different understandings of this society.
On one side there are those thatsay there are 10 Israeli arms
factories in this country. There's nothing we can do.
On the other side, there are those that say there are 10
Israeli arms factories in this country.
(36:48):
This is a target rich environment.
Under the Arms Trade Treaty, Britain is obligated not to make
sales or exports if they believethey may be used in the
violations, in violation of international humanitarian law.
(37:10):
So therefore exports to Israel are not legal.
Now, when that's brought into a court of law and juries are
given access to that informationalmost consistently, they side
with those that have attempted to stop that process.
So what you have here is an unprecedented situation that has
(37:35):
not happened in any other Western country, Nowhere else
have you seen four arm sites forIsrael's largest arms company
shut down and permanently vacated.
Now, how do you quell? And this was a process that will
have involved thousands of people, OK, thousands of people
in different ways. Now you have a situation where
(37:58):
those that have been caught in certain iconic cases are
essentially behind enemy lines and are being punished and
subject to what some say falls in the description of torture,
according to the United Nations.Now what is being sought is to
(38:22):
make an example of several individuals ruin their lives in
order to then show that example to larger groups of people
outside who may think that getting involved in something
like this would be a wise decision.
(38:43):
Jeremy Johnson, it's important that we are absolutely clear,
has a history of serving the security state.
He is someone that was a lawyer for MI 6, someone that has the
highest level of vetting possible as a special advocate
the the ability to see secret evidence held in cases.
(39:05):
In addition to that he has a position working on the warrants
for the activities of the intelligence services.
Also. He is ultimately someone who in
this position in this case, and it's my honestly held view that
he was carrying out that servicefor the same forces that have
(39:28):
been mobilizing against the movement over the previous
decades. But never before have you seen
so much achieved in such a shortspace of time.
And so, you know, you also have to remember that on this
question of sovereignty, Britishpolice hack the phones of people
(39:50):
in this country using Celebrite.It's an Israeli intelligence
firm. According to the contracts for
Celebrite that Australian Lebanese lawyer Nick Hannah has
had access to, they stipulate that Celebrite has access to all
the information gathered throughits devices.
In addition to that, you have Nice Systems, which has an
(40:13):
element of its operations which is a subsidiary of Elbit
Systems. Which manages the interface
between the Crown Prosecution Service and Police services,
right? So this is a company which was
founded by 5 alumni of Israeli Unit 8200 who seems to have
direct access to information being exchanged by the police
(40:36):
and the CPS. And also NICE Systems has a role
in investigations in this country.
So we are talking about the integration of the security
forces of Israel and Britain in a very clear and tangible way.
We have here now over the last six years is established a force
(41:01):
of resistance to that in a direct, material, systematised
and organised way. There have been massive prices
paid by a few, but it's important to remember that you
have also seen very unprecedented things happen in
the other direction. I also think of someone like
(41:22):
William Plaster, who was one of the film in 24, which is now the
film in 25, who while he was held on remand, his mother
passed away. And there are 1,000,000 stories
of those who have, out of a great need to show love to
others, made sacrifices. Thank you.
(41:43):
Thank. You very much, Loki.
It's because we're running out of time.
We'll have to end with this eclipse that came to us from
Gaza, from our contributors in Gaza, Ali and Hoda.
Let's watch this video together to understand the situation in
Gaza. Hello everyone I am Alice Cake.
And I am Hondus Cake and we are both Reuters from Gaza.
How does someone whose entire. Job is to save lives.
(42:07):
End up unable to to save their own.
Lives civil. Defense workers are not.
Superheroes. They are ordinary people.
Who run into the? Fire to give.
Someone else, a chance to breathe behind.
These yellow jackets there is. A human being.
These men have families who waitfor them.
These men carry a heavy guilt and this.
(42:29):
Guilt is the guilt of helplessness.
It eats other souls. Each time they hear the screams
of children and women from underthe Rebel and they can't do
anything because they know that they have no access to any heavy
machinery or to any proper equipment to lift.
The Rebel. Since the genocide began, around
135 civil defense workers have been killed.
(42:53):
Some were killed while being displaced with their families,
others while they were trying torescue people from under the
rebel. Others were also killed while
trying to get food for their children after spending the
whole day rescuing people. One of these civil defense
workers was Ali Omar, who was killed while rescuing a little
(43:18):
girl from a bombed building in Al Sabra neighborhood.
He was holding the hands of of his colleague Mohammad Azam.
Then an Israeli airstrike hit all of the people that were
there. Mohammad Azam, when he regained
his consciousness, he realized he was just still holding Ali's
(43:39):
hands. Only his hands.
Since the beginning of. This so-called ceasefire since.
Last October more than 10,000. People have been deported, are
killed. Or missing under the Rebel, the
civil defencemen couldn't get them out.
Because. The Israeli occupation forces
haven't allowed necessary heavy machinery.
To enter. Gaza and many international
(44:00):
debuts, including The Intercept,documented.
How? These men have been working with
their bare hands and. With the very basic.
And simple equipments, they havemanaged to recover around 2000
bodies. Families would They threw the
rubble. For one month when they reached
the bottom. They would call the civil.
(44:20):
Defence men to come. And to pull out what?
Remains and most of the time. They were.
They were just. Finding skeleton.
Days ago I met Abdullah Najdalawi, a civil defense
worker. He told me most brutal massacre
he has ever witnessed was Al Tabiain school massacre where
around 100 people were killed while they were performing at
(44:44):
Fajita. There was a blood that is
reaching above his ankles. Whenever he wanted to lean
against any wall, his hands weretouching the flesh of people.
Until this day, he told me that he is still hearing the screams
of children and women beneath the rubble.
(45:07):
These men are risking everythingto save what remains of our
humanity. So there is thing you can do.
Is to refuse to look away. So thank you so much for adding
Hoda for this very insightful and powerful video.
It's like for us for seeing specifically from Gaza civil
(45:27):
defense workers means a lot. I remember when our friend
myself was killed and that Noah had some of his colleagues that
we've seen in the video have gone immediately to help
retrieve their remove, like hopefully removing the rebel to
to rescue them. After the bombardment, along
with the brothers of Mysera, Mohammad Al Muayed and they were
(45:47):
bombed by Israeli air strike, killing one of the paramedics
and also the two brothers of Mysera.
So we know how difficult. The situation those very
respectful paramedics are going through.
To to try to save. The lives of our beloved ones
and how the world is letting them like without.
So Israel is not allowing TV machinery to help them as well
(46:10):
as not allowing that resume of the removing the rebel and
removing the the the debris or the body parts from underneath
the rebel but another. Thing that's very important to.
Mention is that Hoda and Ali yesterday were hoping to video
us a beautiful. Video about the.
Beach and was about the the fisherman life but also the
(46:32):
struggles that they are going through within the June side
time and the the so-called ceasefire now.
But they couldn't because the. Situation is becoming more and
more difficult and intense. Yeah, it's things are getting
escalated. Israel's ground invading more
and more of the. East of Gaza.
They're taking more of the land,they've taken already more than
(46:53):
5065% of the land and they're going inside more and more,
while at the same time the escalations, the bombardments is
more than 15 in the last week. Only among them, some people we
we also know. So things are getting.
More and more difficult on the ground in Gaza and and we need
(47:15):
to remember that the civil defence workers are doing a
great job. But they need to be seen.
They need to be. Saved.
They need to be spoken, spoken about.
So we're very happy to have bothof you here today.
It was a very insightful, powerful discussion and
conversation and hopefully we'llhave more of such discussions
(47:37):
with both of you inshallah, alsoin the future.
So thank you so much for. Coming with us this week and.
For everyone who have been watching.
Us to the end of this episode thank you so much for staying
and. Hopefully we'll see you next.
Week Wednesday, 7:00 PM Have a good day night, take care.
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com