Episode Transcript
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Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan and I'm speakingtoday with Kyle Robish, a partner
at Latitude Legal, a provider offlexible legal talent, and he is
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also the founder of its Tampa office.
Hi Kyle, how are you?
Great, Ari.
Good to see you.
And thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
So tell us about your backgroundand your role at Latitude Legal.
I took the classic path, I think outta lawschool that k JD went to the University
of Florida, Vandy Law, federal clerkship.
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And then I practiced at a bigfirm, Venable in DC for four years,
lateral to Bradley and Tampa,another big firm rose to partner.
And then one day, and I sayone day, it was really a
formative, year or two process.
I decided I wanted to.
Get outta litigation anddo something different.
And that led me to Latitude and thisflexible legal talent model and the
opportunity for me to be a businessowner and business operator as opposed to
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somebody who fought and argued all day.
But what I did before is a big partof what I do now, and I love my
time litigating, but I love my timebeing a business owner even more.
How did working with a largelaw firm and that experience
shape your mission at Latitude?
So there's a couple different ways.
The most obvious way, the easy answeris a good chunk of our clients here at
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Latitude are law firms and they're firmsof the size and shape that I worked
at big law firms, ML 100 law firms.
Then there's solo practitionersand everything in between.
So all of my 10 years of practicego in every single day into
thinking about the kinds of lawyers.
All my clients would want to engagetheir skillset, their culture fit,
their background, their experience.
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And then obviously I workedwith a lot of legal departments
representing them in litigation.
And that's the other bigchunk of our clients.
It's legal departments, bigFortune 10, down to single GC
solo shops, early stage companies.
So all of that experience Ispent practicing goes into what
we do now, and that's one of thethings I liked about Latitude.
Everyone at this company practiced ata high level as either a partner at a
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big law firm or a boutique law firm,or a senior in-house legal leader
at a big company or a small company.
And so we all sat in our client'sseats and we now serve those same
clients just in a different capacity.
How do you define flex legal talentand how do law firms and legal
departments most often use that service?
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It means a lot of different things.
When I was, early in my practice daysand even before I took this job, if
I'm being candid, when I thought ofa contract lawyer or an engagement
lawyer, I thought of a doc reviewer.
And that was I do my own duediligence on Latitude and the whole
industry before I even came here.
I learned, really over the last fiveor 10 years, the idea of flex legal
talent is you practice in a littlebit of a different way, but a lot of
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the times you've worked at a big lawfirm, you've worked in house at a major
company, even maybe as the GC or as apartner at that law firm, and you've
either gotten to a point in your life.
Where you want or need, or there'ssome mix of those elements to
work flexibly to work differently.
You don't wanna do docreview, that's fine.
But you wanna work at a highlevel doing sophisticated work.
You just need something about it tobe a little different, or you want
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something about it to be different.
So we have lawyers who work sixmonths on a leave coverage for a
client, and they'll work 60 to 80hours a week during that leave.
And then they'll take sixmonths off or three months off.
And then we've got lawyers who.
Practice 20 to 30 hours a week.
And this is a part of what they do.
And they've got other things in theirlives that they care about and balance
and need or want to give time to.
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And so flex legal talent means alot of things and it means a lot of
things to a lot of different people.
But the beauty of it is thatmeans almost everyone can have
a role in, in that ecosystem.
Whether it's getting help from a flexlawyer or being a flex lawyer and
having that fit into your life orpractice at some point in some way.
What's the distinction in therole at a law firm versus in
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a corporate legal department?
When a law firm comes to us, we'reobviously thinking about putting
our law firm hats on, thinking aboutthat background and skillset, making
sure giving them the kind of lawyerthey want to hire permanently.
Just for our fractionalor engagement piece.
If you're a litigator or a litigationdepartment at a big law firm.
They might have a an MDL or A classaction or a mass actions, or they
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need somebody to come in and helpdraft briefs or run depositions.
We're finding someone who's done thatsame work at other law firms of similar
caliber and plugging them in-house.
It's a similar setup in terms of matchingthe need to the background, but we're
looking for folks who've done that workin house before, so they know what it's
like to move at the speed of the businessto make decisions in that gray area
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that in-house lawyers have to live in.
And to get to Yes.
Again we're matching the specificbackground experience and skillset
of folks to the needs of the clients.
The way they set that up might bedifferent, but the end of the day,
the result is the same, which iswe're tailoring the specific lawyer
to the specific need that client has.
Is flex legal talent designedto be tactical or strategic?
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Both is the answer when I thoughtof it tactically when I started,
bring someone in for a specific need.
Believe coverage, backfill support.
Step it out.
Maybe I'll call you backin six months or six years.
Over time, as I've worked with more legaldepartments and law firms, I've learned
it's actually deployed more effectively.
Strategically, thetactical elements fit in.
Yes, you have people stepping outfor big things and you need to
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get that filled, leave coverage,backfill, whatever it might be.
But then you also have thisday to day legal work that.
A lot of times you can get busy,you need some overflow help.
Sometimes the law firm's not a greatfit for that because of the nature of
the business, the in and out side ofit, the niche, commercial contracts.
Not a lot of law firms focuson commercial contracts.
That's all the upshot of all of thatare a, is the legal departments and
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law firms that use, I think us mosteffectively are using us strategically.
They're plugging tactical goals,and along that while they go,
but they're also making it apart of their broader structure.
So they can not only get, thebig items done, but they can
get the day-to-day work done.
They have someone on tap thatthey can use throughout a year or
throughout multiple years to provideoverflow, prevent burnout, have their
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teams get the support they need.
And it's been fun to see thatevolution because I think
that's also been pretty recent.
I think most of our clients thought ofus tactically for the past five or 10
years, and it's really only been in thelast, I'd say, three to five, where a lot
more folks are coming to us and saying.
Hey, I might have a leave coverage,but actually really interested
in thinking about a three yearplan and all the different ways
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we can plug a flex lawyer in.
What does that look like?
How does it sound?
What are the budgets?
And those are fun conversations to have
Is your team comprised oflawyers with particular skills in
particular practice areas or atparticular levels of experience?
Yes.
We have a bench of folks, I canput 'em in the general buckets.
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At the end of the day, they alwaysfind a way to elude those buckets.
Most of our lawyers have 10plus years of experience.
A good chunk of them have practicedin-house and at law firms.
There's also plenty of lawyersthough, who have worked three to
five years who come to us or haveworked 35 or 40 years and come to us.
Some that have only lived at law firms,others who've only lived in house.
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The skill sets and experiencebreakdown pretty similarly too.
We've got plenty of in-housegeneralists and plenty of litigation
generalists, commercial litigators,but we also have tax lawyers with
LLMs from NYU and Georgetown.
We've got ERISA attorneys.
We've got healthcare regulatory attorneys.
We've got mass tort andenvironmental litigators.
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We've got folks who can operate at a highlevel if that's what you need generally.
But then we also have a niche bench.
Obviously the niche bench is a littlesmaller because when we wanna hold
someone out as an expert in tax orERISA or the Stark Act, we wanna make
sure they actually do those things.
But just like our clients who, varietyof needs, we've got a variety of folks
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who we can plug into each situation.
Why do your lawyers choose acareer in flexible legal talent?
For some, it's a season of their life.
For maybe six months or two years,or five years, whatever it might be,
wanna step out, reset, and figureout things a little differently.
And that can be a varietyof reasons for that.
Then for others, it's just the logicalnext step of what they're doing.
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We have folks who've workedwith us for 10 plus years.
The common factors in all thosebuckets are that people come to us
either, either out of want or need.
Most commonly means something likesomething has happened in their life and
they were practicing at a big law firmor a fancy legal department and somebody
got sick in their family, and they'rethe primary caregiver, or some life event
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occurred where they needed flexibility.
They couldn't get out of their currentsetup, but they're a really great lawyer
and they wanna keep doing high level work.
So they come to us to help getthat, give them those opportunities
to do that level work while also.
Taking care of their family ortheir life or their personal
aspects need to take care of.
We've got folks who alsocome to us out of want.
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They've gotten to that point intheir career, or they've simply
made the decision earlier in theircareer, Hey, I've, cut my teeth.
I've learned some things that I'm ready tobet on myself, and I wanna make latitude
part of that, what does that mean?
Maybe they have their own practice andthey use us to supplement that practice.
Maybe they just want to do engagements.
Maybe they love the idea,like I mentioned earlier, of.
Going really hard for six ornine months in a year and then
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going to borrow for three months.
Maybe they own a travel businessand they operate that at
some level, 10 hours a week.
For most of the year, and then threemonths outta the year, they either take
their clients abroad or go try out some ofthe resorts they put their clients into.
So they'll take three months offwith us and lean heavily into the
business and then pop back in andlet us know, Hey I'm ready for the
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next lead coverage or backfill, orwhatever it might be, fill me up.
So the.
Common thread of all of that.
It's all about what people'slives are delivering to them.
And now they've got an opportunitythrough latitudes and companies like
us to build their own adventure andbuild a way of practicing in their life
at a high level that works for themand then also works for our clients.
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How is AI creating headwinds andtailwinds for flex legal talent?
I feel like I have this in this question.
A lot in the last three months.
Thank you.
Open AI and anthropic.
I think the answer's a little bitof both, but I are would argue, and
obviously I'm biased, I think we'regetting more tailwinds than headwinds.
On the headwind side, I thinkit's undeniable that a lot of.
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The legal work is being commoditizedand even more will be commoditized.
And some of it can be done by ai andsome of it can be supercharged by ai and
that can lead to less work for lawyers.
And that can mean lesswork for flex lawyers.
That's undeniable at some level, butI think the tailwinds are still bigger
for our industry and our company.
And the reason is I think AI iscreating more work and more demand.
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How is that, why is that?
Time and time again?
I spend most of my days talking togeneral counsels and law firm partners.
They tell us AI is creating more workfor them, not less, at least right now.
It's implementation, it'soutputs that need to be reviewed.
It's mistakes that it's generatedthat they now have to fix.
Almost every in-house lawyer has astory of the sales person who plugged
a contract into AI, said, I've gotit, and now it's worse than before.
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And now they have to go undo thatwork, rewind it, and fix it again.
That's more work, not less.
It's just as a litigator.
When you look back to ESI ande-Discovery, when that dawn, we
were talking about wiping outfirst year associates for a decade.
Instead, there's more work than ever.
Why?
Because more data created moredocuments, created more work, and
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now we have whole discovery teamsand practice groups that, law firms
that practice just in that space.
I think this is going to besimilar, so I think AI is gonna
create more work and I think it'sgonna create more tailwinds, but.
At the same time, we're also gonna bedealing with some headwinds over here, so
we can figure out how to navigate that.
How can lawyers best position themselvesto succeed in 2026 and beyond?
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Being open to career pivots andsaying yes to opportunities.
2026 is the best time to practice law.
I bet if you ask me in 2027,Ari, I'm gonna say 2027 is
the best time to practice law.
I firmly believe that, but I alsofeel like that's the opposite of what
I read in the media and allah.com.
I hate seeing that because I, havinglived both the traditional model, if
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you will, being a big law attorney,rising a partner, and then now where
the law is going and where it is thatWayne Gretzky get to where the puck
is going, quote, I feel like peoplehave more options than ever and I
think leaning into those options andthat optionality is really important.
Some of the most successful partnersat law firms and general counsels.
Have done work adjacent to the lawand have done work outside the law and
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come all the way back into the law.
And they'll tell you that made them abetter lawyer because they sat in the
sales seat for a little while, madethem a better GC because they've worked
in finance or accounting and they'velived what the budget crunches mean.
So when they're advising on thosesame things and those issues.
There's a camaraderie andexperience you can't get unless
you've literally earned it.
People should be unafraid of leaninginto pivots and opportunities that might
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seem a little bit off the beaten path.
You can always go back onto the path.
It's a great path.
It's where I came from and I mightgo back to one day but in 2026 you
can practice law however you wanton whatever terms that work for you.
And I think that's pretty awesome andI think we should be leaning into that.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with KyleRobish, a partner at Latitude Legal,
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a provider of flexible legal talent.
Kyle is also the founder ofLatitude Legal's Tampa office.
Kyle, thanks so very much.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Ari.
I.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.