071: Breaking Barriers: How Rani and Uduak Redefine African Food Photography

Breaking Barriers in Food Photography What if the opportunity you’re waiting for doesn’t exist yet?

Have you ever wondered what would happen if you stopped waiting and started building anyway?

In this episode, we meet Rani and Uduak, the creative duo behind 117 Collective, a food and lifestyle photography team based in Lagos, Nigeria. They have worked with global brands like Coca-Cola, Baileys, and Krispy Kreme while carving out a space for African food to be seen, valued, and celebrated.

From unseen to undeniable

Rani and Uduak share how they built a business in a market that did not fully understand the value of food photography. They walked into restaurants, created demand, and trusted their vision even when confidence felt shaky. As their work grew, they faced imposter syndrome, pricing challenges, and the pressure of commercial expectations.

Over time, they discovered something deeper. African cuisine was not being visually honored. That realization shifted everything. They moved from chasing perfection to creating images that feel real, cultural, and alive. Now, they are expanding into storytelling through documentary work, highlighting voices and stories that deserve to be seen.

What you can take with you

This conversation invites you to trust your instincts, honor your creativity, and step forward even when the path feels unclear.

Keep going

If this episode speaks to you, share it with someone building something meaningful.

Your work matters. Keep showing up.

 

💬 Join the Conversation

Savory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/

Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast

Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook

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📣 Follow Rani & Uduak

Website: www.1117collective.com

Instagram: @1117collective @uduakbassey

Facebook: @1117collective

linkedin: @1117collective

 

Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to the 71stepisode of the Savory Shot.
A podcast about the art and soulof working in food photography.
I'm your host with the most Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographerbased out of Austin, Texas.

(00:21):
And before we start this show, Igotta take a breath and, and just
say thanks to y'all, the listeners.
Y'all are amazing.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for listeningand for being awesome.
You guys are amazing and I can'tthank you enough for being here.

(00:46):
And if this is your first time tuning in,welcome, welcome to the Hot Mess Express.
Today's episode is special.
For two reasons.
The first reason is that for the firsttime in Savory Shot history, we have

(01:09):
not one but two guests on the show.
The second reason why thisepisode is special is because we
have two international guests.
We haven't had an internationalguest in a hot minute.
I believe Jeff was our last internationalguest that we had on the show.

(01:32):
So that's exciting.
So first guest of the year, firstinternational guest of the year,
two people at the same time.
Man, this episode is gonna beso, so amazing for that reason
and a bazillion other reasons.

(01:55):
So without further ado.
Allow me to introduce our guests.
Meet Rani and Uduak from 1117 Collective.
They are a food and lifestyle photographydynamic duo based out in Lagos, Nigeria.

(02:16):
Rani and Uduak believe in creatingphotography that evokes an emotional
response and draws the viewers in.
They've worked with brandslike Coca-Cola, Baileys, Krispy
Kreme Donuts, and so much more.
In this episode, we talk abouttheir transition from restaurant

(02:39):
photography to commercial studios.
We talk about the challenges theyfaced convincing restaurants to invest
in quality photography, and we talkedabout the underrepresentation and lack
of visual celebration of Nigerian andAfrican cuisine in the culinary world.

(03:02):
It was a great episode, y'all.
I'm so excited for you to hear it.
But before we get into allthat, grab a drink, grab a
pen, and let's start the show.
Welcome to the Savory Shot, abiweekly show about the art and
soul of working in food photography.
I'm your host, Mica McCook.

(03:24):
Every other Wednesday I sit down tochat with professionals in the industry
so that you feast on only the besttips and strategies in the business.
Alright?
All right, y'all, let's get started.

(03:44):
Just wanna say thank you guysfor coming on the show, for
spending your evening with me.
Welcome, Uduak and Rani.
You guys are so cool.
I've enjoyed talking to y'all for, ohmy gosh, we've been talking for like
an hour and I could talk forever withyou guys, but I just wanna say thank
you so much for being on the show.

(04:07):
Thank you for having us.
Happy to be here.
Yes, y'all, guests.
We've been trying to make thishappen for the last few months.
You know, I had to cancel at the lastminute and then, you know, they're busy
and working and so trying to find a dateand time that we were both available was
like a challenge, but I'm so glad thatwe found the time and we made it work.

(04:30):
I wanna start this interview off byasking how did the two of you first
decide to like build something together?
How did 1 1 7 Collective come together?
Yeah, so.
It's uh, well, 1117 Collective right?
That's the name of our business.
So essentially it's namedafter the day that we met.

(04:55):
So that was 1st of January, 2017, becausejust backstory before that, I was doing
photography for a few years before we met.
Then I had this friend who openedthe restaurants or was about to
open restaurants, and he kept ontelling me, "Oh dude, when I open

(05:16):
the restaurants, you're gonna takethe pictures, you're gonna take the
pictures." And it's like, "Okay, sureman, call me whenever." Finally call me.
And I just don't really feelcomfortable taking food pictures.
But I didn't want to let himdown and I also needed the money.
So from like going out with her all thetime, she'd always be so interested in

(05:38):
taking pictures of food on her phone.
She had the camera.
So I was like, "Hey, why don't youjust go to this place with me and help
me take pictures of the food, right."
And I'll pay you.
So she was like, okay.
I mean at first she was reluctantlike, would I mess it up?
And I'm like, "No.
Like you already knowhow to take pictures.

(05:59):
I'll set up up all thelights and everything.
You just come with your camera and takewhatever you think looks nice." So she
came and she took pictures and theywere nice and I was taking as well.
So like we were both taking picturesand we had the footage and it was a few
weeks later, I think they called us foranother restaurant that also had rights.

(06:20):
A family owned restaurants.
I think it was Japanese foodand they also had classic
American type of stuff as well.
Pizza, burgers, all those kind of things.
So they called us again to takepictures for that restaurant.
So it's like, "Oh, who amI gonna call to call me me?
Why don't I call her again?" So we didthat gig and I think she was having

(06:42):
too much fun with it and she was like,"Oh let's maybe make a portfolio or
make a business outta this thing."
Because surely there are likeother restaurants that need
food pictures done, right.
Like new restaurants.
So lemme come in, actually.
At that time it wasn't evennecessarily new restaurants because.
At that time, restaurants in likeLagos or Nigeria, not like were not

(07:05):
taking their Instagram seriously.
Right.
Or their online presence,like in any form.
And so even if they would havean Instagram page, you'll see
like a pixelated menu on it.
And I used to go out like toeat a lot 'cause we like food,
obviously that's why we're here.
But I wouldn't be able to get like a feelof the restaurants or their offerings
or what their food is like before I go.

(07:25):
And so after I did that gig with him,I was like, hmm, there are so many
restaurants that need good food pictures.
And obviously like between thefirst time and the second time he,
when he was calling me the secondtime, so the first time I was like,
I had no idea what I was in for.
Mm-hmm.
But between that, I was now obviously likechecking resources online and trying to

(07:46):
find out more about like food photographyand like feeling like, okay, I think
I kind of just like need learn it..
And so I was like, oh, why don'twe make a business out of this?
We could get a portfolio together,we could practice more, learn more
about food photography and createportfolio and just literally physically
go to these different restaurantsday in, day out and pitch to them.

(08:09):
We could even print out the portfolionicely so they could see the pictures or
we could take on an iPad and we just puttogether like a little price menu that,
okay, do you wanna take pictures of yourentire menu that has this many dishes?
This is how much, if you have picturesalready, but just wondering, we have new
additions to your menu and so we couldjust make money from this clearly, because
there are not alot of people doing this.

(08:30):
So this was before like thecontent creation era, or I think
it's before it was like a bigthing and reels and all that.
Maybe at that point in timein Lagos, there was only
one other food photographer.
I mean, other people would take one or.
Maybe like two or three others.
Yeah, or like some thatwould take pictures of food.
They were not necessarilylike food photographers, they
were just photographers whowould take pictures of food.

(08:50):
So I was like, there's not like alot of competition here, I think.
And so we could just.
Just
Do it.
Yeah.
We could like make it professional.
We could package it nicely.
We could make ourselves a PDF.
Let's set up a website.
I like projects, so when it's time tolike set up something, I'm always eager.
Let's do this, let's do this section.
Our business cards, let's do this.
Gonna continue.

(09:11):
Yeah, I think that's it.
I think that was it.
Pretty much.
So like we ended up doingrestaurant photography for
like a good number of years.
Then after that, because likefor me, I liked having a good
website that was easily searchable.
'Cause like I had a portrait businessand like I would get a lot of customers

(09:33):
just from people typing on Google.
'Cause I can't compete withlike the person that has 10 or
20,000 followers on Instagram.
Forget about that.
I'm not trying to build 10 or 20,000followership on Instagram overnight.
Like it's gonna take forever, right?
But the way I can beat thoseguys is like if I have a website
that's well put together, it'seasily findable on Google, right?

(09:56):
'Cause I feel like if you're typing onGoogle "family photographer near me", you
are actually serious about looking fora family photographer near you, right?
Whereas on Instagram, I might findyou and I might like your portfolio
and I might save this for later whenI think about doing like birthday
pictures or whatever, right?

(10:17):
So I said, okay, let'shave a good website.
And funny enough, like off just havinga good website that was well maintained.
One of the brand managers fromlike Baileys in Nigeria reached
out to us and they were like,oh, we really like the work.
Yeah.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Can we give you a job to do?

(10:41):
Go ahead.
Yeah, so like even before that you werealready saying that at that point we
had been doing restaurant for a whileand we had been doing our portfolio
work and like doing a lot of learnings.
So there was a point that youhad said that we should try to
go into that commercial work andlike approach brands and stuff.
But I thought that we were not ready yet.

(11:01):
Right.
I was like, no, that'slike the big league.
I don't think we're there yet.
Why didn't you think you were ready?
No, I think for her it was like impostersyndrome and that's like something
that you deal with as a creative.
I think even me at points in time,I think a point in time that was
like something that I had initially.

(11:22):
I think like every photographer that Iknow has had imposter syndrome in some
way or another at some points in time.
Because most people whostart out photography.
Yeah.
Start out as a hobby.
Cause like you start outas a hobby and it's like.
So the idea that peopleare like trying to pay you.
Like people are actually trying to, to

(11:42):
Do this is like.
Then like maybe, have you ever hadthat dream in middle of the night where
it's like somebody wakes you up andit's like, what do you do for a living?
And it's like, oh, I'm aprofessional photographer.
And that just sounds so weird to say thatlike I'm a professional photographer.

(12:02):
Like, how the fuck did I get here, man?
Yeah.
That's scary.
Yeah,
And like Uduak said.
It's scary when there's moneyinvolved because there's that risk.
Because the thing about likecommercial is that you are guaranteeing
that you can deliver this exactphoto that they're looking for.
Yes.
And when it's a hobby, it'sjust like there's no pressure,

(12:25):
there's no expectations.
Yeah.
You're just growing, you're learning.
And so there's the freedom to like makemistakes, but when they're coming to you
and wanting to pay you money, it changes.
Yeah.
It's like you're the professional now.
It's like, ah.
I mean, was that it for you?
Because that's what the scare was for me.
So like most of the restaurants hereare like small businesses, right?

(12:47):
Not like a lot of like big chains.
So when they're now going to thecommercial and like some of these
commercial clients were like, like thisone was like a multinational, right?
Yeah.
That was Guinness.
Yeah.
Nigeria.
And so obviously like it has to meet likeguidelines and so many things like that.
So like before then I waslike, we're not ready.
But then we interview, seekout the commercial clients.
Initially they came to us.

(13:08):
So I was like, okay, Ithink we're ready now.
If they say we're ready, then we're ready.
Then like you end up going to theoffice and Yeah, I know, right?
I mean, like, even then itwas an interesting experience.
'cause like you go to the office andyou're so corporate and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, and you know, ohyeah, you have to fill in these forms,

(13:30):
but don't worry about the paperwork.
You'll just do the job through ouragency guys so they can pay you and you
don't have to fill in all these forms.
Uh, how much do you charge again?
Then we're like, oh crap.
We didn't even tell themhow much we charge, dude.
Then it's like, just send you an email.
You know, no one say somethingand like, you'll forget about it.

(13:51):
Like, we'll just sendit to you in an email.
They're like, oh, okay,cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
No problem.
This is what we need for nowanyway, for the shoots, and we
need like this set of images.
This is the branch, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
And like even then, like wedidn't even freaking know that.
For bottles and beverages.
Right.
To get like the chills effects, just usefricking glycerin on the bottle barrel.

(14:14):
So like we were trying to frick makesure that it's like a fridge and the
fridge is really cold so that whenyou bring it out it's like content.
Like there's condensation, no, like crap.
No, that's when we werepreparing for the shoot.
You see?
Yeah, no, even on the shoot wedidn't use glycerin, man or like,
you know, we didn't use glycerin.
We we're bringing them out from thefridge man and it's just like, wow.

(14:37):
So amateur.
But like the, the stuff turned out great.
It's just like, because you'reusing like real condensation.
The stickers needed a lot ofediting and Photoshop and that
was my headache to deal with then.
But like client was happy.
We were then like, I think from therethe next year we had like a second

(15:02):
commercial gig.
I mean like we were still mainlyfocused on restaurants, but then I
think we're like a bit more proactive.
'cause it was like, okay, let's also gofor like fast food restaurants as well.
I think what the problem at thatpoint in time was everybody was like
realizing and like valuing social media.

(15:23):
But I think like when it comes to payingfor a service in this part of the world,
people tend to be a bit cheap with it.
I'll tell the truth.
So it's like, yeah, like nobodywants to spend money man.
And it's like marketing, you haveto spend money or it would just
be like, oh, you have the meeting,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

(15:45):
And like, you know, the way weworked with restaurants at least is.
Everything was price listed and likeyou find there are a lot of people
that don't necessarily have like thebudget for what it is that you're doing.
And even then, like if you looked, wewere looking at our price lists from then,
like we weren't even charging that much.
Like if you really think about it, youknow, um, but it's, it's is what's this?

(16:10):
So we're like, okay, if we wantto get paid more, maybe go for
like fast food restaurants, right?
And so we started like going onLinkedIn and reaching out to them.
I mean she kind of bullied me tobe the guy to do the reach out to
'Cause, he said he is extroverted.
So I'm like extrovertedskills to get some kind.

(16:31):
So like, essentially what I would just dois like go on LinkedIn and be like, hey,
with like the long copy paste message andjust change the name and the company name
inside and just hope to get a response.
Then like from there, sometimes you would.
Identify because like there're notthat many fast food restaurants that

(16:54):
have capacity and have the needs.
So like you, it was likea small list to pick from.
Right.
And it would be like, okay, theseguys probably don't need us because
they have their shit together.
Okay, these guys needus because they don't.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So they definitely need us.
So like reach out, so liketry and find the marketing
manager or whatever on LinkedIn.

(17:15):
And if you can't find that, at leastlook for the human resource guy and hope
they respond and they're cooperative.
Because I think there's this thing whereit's like they people can be weird.
It's like, dude, I want to giveyou a proposal that's gonna
help your business move forward.
You literally lose nothing bytelling me the name of this person.

(17:35):
Right.
Just tell me their name.
So I can make the letter to them a bitmore personal than just saying to the
marketing manager and it looks spammy.
Right?
Hey, like to Henry, you know, likeHenry would like to, he would be
more inclined to like read it becauselike I went through that effort to
know, okay, his name is Henry, right?
So like I just need his name, don't gimmehis email address or not just his name.

(18:00):
And I'll send a physical letterto the office, goddammit.
Okay.
So they withhold the information.
So I mean, eventually we got likea fast food clients and bro, it was
like the most soul-sucking work.
Now we are done.
Because I think they made us havelike four or five, maybe even six

(18:24):
meetings before they were like,okay, you can, let's do a shoot now.
Because like meeting one was usintroducing ourselves to them, telling
them about what we do and they'relike, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool.
That we actually need you.
Because like if you looked at theirpictures before us, what I think somebody

(18:47):
did is like maybe a product photographeror somebody wrote a proposal to them and
literally had a white backdrop and redand white napkin and told them, put like
everything white plates and just like inthe most boring way like you can possibly
think of like taking pictures of food.

(19:08):
Oh, just put the rice there.
Chicken.
And like literally the damn red napkin.
And like the most basic choppingboard was like always in those shots.
And I'm like, gee, like how can you guysconfidently use this kind of imagery like.
What the hell man?
So, you know, we had like six meetings,

(19:30):
So you know, you coulddo other things, right?
The last meeting, theproblem was the price.
They're like, oh, we needto bring the price down.
And like they're trying to dothe good cop, bad cop thing and
they know that it's like her.
That's the reason why like, we'renot agreeing on doing the job.

(19:51):
In fact, I think there was likea meeting before that where were
like, oh no, we can't work with you.
Like we're not bluffing.
We can't work with you.
And they were like, no, come back again.
Like, we can work, you know,we'll give you work every month.
Like just take this price.
And you know, at a point in time I waslike, I think we should just do it.
But just do it.

(20:12):
And like over time, like graduallyincrease the price on them.
So like they don'trealize what's happening.
It never works.
I think I just kept on sayingit, oh, let's just do it.
We need it in the portfolio.
Let's just do it.
Let's just do it.
And she was like, oh, just every timewe'll be taking all our prices so we
can have something in the portfolio.
And what's the point in like doing this Ifyou have a portfolio, ideal client doesn't

(20:37):
even want pay you what you deserve.
And I'm like, dude, just do it andlet's have it in the portfolio, man.
Like,
She is right.
She is right.
I agree.
I agree a hundred percent.
In fact, I, I think like with that,that gig, like we did it, then we
did another gig for like that sameclient and they wanted video this time

(21:00):
around and it was like, Ooh, video.
Nice.
So I. Oh my God.
It's, it's so hard to that that line.
It's like, I really dowanna work with you.
Yeah.
But not for that amount.
And it's like you don't wanna lose them,but you also know that if you take it
for the rate that they're saying to takeit for, that you're gonna enter into

(21:24):
this job with some form of resentment.
'Cause it's like, you know thatyou're not getting paid what
you should be getting paid.
And so like the hardest andrisk risky thing you can do is
to stand on business and say,
I'm confident enough in my skills that.
I'm not gonna do it for this much.
You can go find the other photographerand hire them for the rate that

(21:44):
you want and you'll be coming backto me because you're not gonna be
happy with what you're getting.
I agree.
Like I wish I had the guts to do that atthe very beginning because I was like,
you, Rani, I was just taking whateverand just adding it to the portfolio
thinking that I can increase my rates.
Yeah.
And it took a long time before I learnedthat the ones that you got for the

(22:07):
cheap rate, they're gonna stay cheap.
So when you were starting withrestaurants, I remember you said that
there were like two or three otherfood photographers and most of the
restaurants in that area didn't prioritizetheir marketing and their photos.
What convincing did it take forthem to look at what you guys were
doing and go, okay, yeah, maybe weshould hire a food photographer.

(22:31):
Was it difficult to convince them ordid they see that other restaurant
and go, oh, I like what they're doing.
Do that for me.
So I think like the reason be the waythe restaurant scene works around here
is like you have casual dining, right?
I would probably say youhave it in different tiers.

(22:52):
So maybe in like Lagos, wherewe live, which is the most
cosmopolitan city in Nigeria, right?
And probably like the edgiest city.
Yeah.
It is the edgiest city.
You have like parts of town that's avery like upscale, highbrow areas, right?
So you have like these nicecasual dining restaurants that
do like mostly continental food.

(23:13):
You have Nigerian food restaurants,but those are more like quick
service restaurants, you know?
So like people usually order it as liketakeaway food or maybe they might come and
eat-in something quickly Nigerian, right?
Those were not really ourtarget audience at first.
We were going after the more like.
Casual dining restaurants.

(23:35):
Right.
And maybe like high-endrestaurants as well.
And maybe even hotel restaurants as well.
I think because you have likemultinational hotels that are also here.
So go ahead.
And I think something else wasthat we would also sort of gauge
the efforts that the restauranthas put into their aesthetics.

(23:55):
Yes.
Overall, right?
By the time they have put efforts intohow their building looks, how their logo
looks, what the staff wear, this is likean a continuation of that because clearly
you care about like visual appeal, right?
So we try to focus on, those restaurantsare already showing a bit of like effort
in like visual appeal and figure, okay,this would be a good add-on for them.

(24:18):
Right.
And so obviously those onesare more within, and obviously
like Instagram booming helped.
Right?
Because obviously they don't wantto be left out of the conversation.
Yeah.
And more and more peopleare going out and like.
So in Nigeria, right, eating out ishonestly like a relatively new thing.
You saying our culture?

(24:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's in our culture most, it's still likemost people, you eat your meals at home.
Right.
And it is still even in, Iwould say Lagos and maybe Abuja
that in our culture as even.
It depends.
I probably would say that likeis it relatively a new thing?
I mean like going tocasual dining restaurants.

(24:59):
Okay.
For some people it's a luxury.
For some people it's like aregular type of thing to go
to this kind of restaurants.
But I mean like even making yourdecision, if it's something that like
you treat yourself to once a week oronce a month or maybe like a special
dates with like a girlfriend orboyfriend or even for yourself, right?

(25:21):
Or like girls high, whateverthe location might be, right?
You want to go somewhere that likeyou feel like you'd enjoy And how
do you like carry out your research?
It's either like somebody has been thereor like you've been there, or maybe you
want to try this new place out, right.
Yeah, and I think like what taps into whatshe was saying, nstagram-friendliness was
like a thing, that's … it was like a trend

(25:44):
And I think people, they were noticingthat people would go to restaurants
and they would open Instagram andthey would be like, I want this.
Yeah.
Sometimes they don't even know thename, they just point the picture.
So obviously like they wererealizing how important it is.
Right.
And they would see theircompetitors who have.
Yeah.
Good content and they're gettingtraction and followers and whatever.

(26:05):
Yeah.
So I think again, it all comesdown to like price, right?
Yeah.
So people are like,Hmm, it's too expensive.
Yeah.
Some people, I mean, it is what it is.
It is what it is.
I think like maybe it doesn't always help.
It depends where youlive in the world, right?
'Cause you know, some cities are probablybetter suited for like this type of

(26:26):
occupation because clearly there'slike an abundance of supply, right?
In terms of the number ofrestaurants or what have you, that
would need people like us, right?
But unfortunately, that'snot always the case, right?
So I think over here, I think maybe forlike restaurant photography, we don't
even do restaurant photography anymore.

(26:47):
Not that, not so much.
Not so much.
I, I've maybe like the last time was like.
A while ago, I don't even rememberwhen, but now I think that this
scene has kind of changed again.
So maybe there are more peoplethat focus on food photography,
but at the same time, you've hadlike this rise of content creators.

(27:09):
So like restaurants would ratherwork with content creators who
can come and create reels, right?
It's TikTok that started this.
Yeah, no, no point.
Because like people want like TikTokvideos and, and like COVID as well
maybe started that whole thing of likeTikTok being the more favorite social
media app opposed to Instagram and.

(27:30):
The Instagram added on.
Then Instagram added reels.
So like the algorithm now paper.
When you guys started moving moreinto the commercial side of things
and these brands came to you andit's like, ready or not, we want you.
How long did it take before or isthat imposter syndrome still there?

(27:50):
Like do you still feel those momentsof, I don't think we're ready for this.
So I think like in terms ofwhen we started doing like
commercial photography, right?
Yeah.
I think that was a bit ofan imposter syndrome thing.
Again, I think maybe anotherpart of like our story is that

(28:11):
it's quite funny how it happens.
'Cause like keep in mind upto a certain point we've been
doing work for like mostly.
Casual dining restaurants that weredoing like continental cuisine or
just like general cuisine, right.
Non Nigerian.
So our portfolio was mostly stufflike burgers and salads and pastas

(28:35):
and all these kind of things, right?
But like there wasn'tmuch Nigerian food there.
And maybe it was because like even whenwe were doing our own portfolio work,
we had all these exotic, beautifulthings and like we're trying to do like
experimentation with different things.
Like we would have the rustic vibeand we get all these props and, but
like we just ignored Nigerian foods.

(28:58):
Like keep it to the side man.
Ain't nobody trying to photograph this.
There's no money here.
Which is silly.
And like I remember a friend who hadlike this online agency was telling
me, oh, how come you don't haveNigerian food in your portfolio?
That like, that would stand out.
Mm. Would it really?
So yeah.
Well we're thinking of restaurants that.
Well, yeah, we're thinking aboutrestaurants mostly at the time.

(29:20):
And I think for like, in termsof commercial, because keep in
mind the first commercial jobwe did was for Baileys, right.
Alcohol Brands.
Then the second one we did was forlike, uh, cereal brand as well.
So like we're thinking, oh, maybesoft drinks next or something.
Like, we're thinking it'sgonna be like food related.

(29:42):
And I think Uduak had kind of reachedout to a client, well the company
that ended up being a client's, right?
There was a corporate client thathad reached out to, because she had
somebody that knew somebody there.
And they were like, eh, we don'treally spend money on food photography,

(30:04):
blah, blah, blah, but can you justdo stock if you have stock images?
We tend to buy those sometimes, butour ad agency buys the stock images.
But the thing is, it's like wewere just ahead of the time, right.
Because I think it's like a thing withAfrican foods in general, and I'll touch
on this, not just Nigeria, like Africanfoods generally from my observation, is

(30:29):
not celebrated enough and it's a shame.
But like with this particular companywe're talking about, like they ended
up being one of our favorite clientsto work with many years in the future.
Because essentially there was likea key staff member there who was
on like a more junior level thanwhoever she had spoken to at the time.

(30:52):
And that person.
Started climbing the ranks becauseshe's creative and she thinks out
the box and all these kind of things.
Right.
And it's like crazy because sheused to work in an ad agency as
her first job out of college.
She worked there for like a year.
They wanted that to continue.
And she was like, ohno, I'm a superstar man.
You can't home me.

(31:12):
Bye.
You know?
But they loved us so much.
Uh, so like, I think her managerthere like had called and said,
oh, I've been seeing your stuff.
You do pho photography rights.
I have a brief for you if you can take it.
I need like pictures for abranch that I'm working with.
So like we went to the officeand you know, we're like,

(31:33):
oh, okay, nice, nice, nice.
We can do this.
And like that was probably the biggest.
Thing that we had been givento do at that point in time.
'cause it was like four day shoots and weneeded like, I think at a certain point in
time she started taking like a more foodstylist role slash project manager role.

(31:56):
And I was more of the creative guy andI would take the pictures and I would
edit and stuff and like think aboutthe lighting and all those things.
She would be better in like theorganizational and styling role because
that's where she shines more, right?
So, I mean sometimes we still, she wouldstill take pictures 'cause she'd be like,
yeah, I'm still better than you anyway.

(32:16):
Like, I just don't choose notreally carrying camera on set date,
but like I can, so like we havea friendly competition sometimes.
Like, oh yeah, I, I mean, even till now,like if it's overhead pictures, she's
better overhead pictures than I am.
So it's just a thing I, I'm morebetter with like the 45 degree
angle, like the very low one.

(32:37):
She is better with the overheads.
So where was I?
Anyway, I think like with that brief,they wanted like Nigerian foods dishes or
they like maybe healthy dishes, but like.
Yeah, so it was like, um, it's a globalbrand, so they had like a global campaign

(32:57):
going on and so they wanted to localizeit for Nigeria, so it still had to
have some of those global dishes, butlike with a Nigerian twists, right.
So I think that was like one ofour first No be there actually,
you know, we did one for the other
Competi.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Man.
But major like foray into like, because,so another thing, Issa, one of the

(33:19):
reasons that we were not thinking of.
Having a lot of Nigerian dishesin our portfolio because remember
I had tried to reach out to thisclient that was supposedly like one
of the biggest food brands and theysaid, we'll just use stock images.
So obviously I felt like ifthis big brand is saying they
will just use stock images, then
What's the.

(33:40):
Clearly there's no value in like,
Yeah.
Trying to create Nigerian dishes, right?
Because they're just seen as
Whatever.
Like, yeah.
Not so valuable.
So like even that points inside.
Were they just wanting to pick stockimages because they just didn't know
where to go to, to seek a photographer orbecause they really didn't see the value?

(34:01):
'cause I feel like they justdidn't know and now they have you.
Yeah, so I think like he mentioned, Ithink it was like the people who were in
charge of the brand at that point in timeand just not seeing the possibilities.
Again, Nigerian food, I mean now wehave like a lot of recipes and so
many things and like it's still good.

(34:23):
But for a long while it was like largely,and it's still in some ways undocumented,
like I mentioned, that we have 250 tribes,so it is, it's still pretty undocumented.
So I don't think creatively they couldsee how this would work with Nigerian
food or how it would be valuable.

(34:45):
Mm. Right.
And I also think that, um, maybe theyalso didn't, like you mentioned the
sec, the second thing, maybe theyalso didn't think it was achievable
in Nigeria or within Nigeria, becauseinterestingly, we were the first.
Nigerian food photographersthat ever shop for them.
And this is like a brand that hasbeen in existence since I was born.

(35:08):
Oh, before.
So yeah, sorry.
Since way before.
Yeah.
Way, way, way before.
Even.
Before your mother.
Exactly.
It's like, it's like one of thebiggest, most national brands obviously.
And their presence in Nigeria alonehas been like since a very long time.
Ages.
Yeah.
Ages.
Wow.
So it's like we were like the first,and like even before they could use

(35:28):
us, we had to be like approved by likethe original office in South Africa.
Do you understand?
Because at that point in time, theydidn't trust Nigerian creative.
Oh yeah.
They still don't trust.
Us.
Yeah.
They didn't trust Nigeriancreators to create content that
was like on a global level.
Actually, I think the problemat that point in time, right?
Because even with um, video TV ads inthat were shown to a Nigerian audience,

(35:53):
what brands would do even like Nigerian.
Big brands like banks or whatever,or telecommunications companies,
they would literally just go toSouth Africa, come back to Nigeria.
Yeah.
And um, they would publish it here.
They would.
Yeah.
Broadcast it here.
They would never shoot anything here.
Yeah.

(36:13):
So like, even when you noticethat, like, okay, some brands, the
multinational at least started like.
Yeah.
And, and like even in termsof like the food, right?
So they would have a dishthat is a Nigerian meal.
But it wasn't shot in Nigeria.
It was shot in another African country.
Mm-hmm.
But it kind of looks weird because thisis not really how the meal looks or this

(36:37):
is not really how the meal is styled.
And Nigerian wouldn't pair this,or Nigerian wouldn't put these two
meals together in the same plate.
So they would have those things.
And so obviously like there wouldbe a disconnect with the viewers.
'cause it just looks flat.
Yeah.
It doesn't look related.
All, it doesn't lookinteresting and stuff like that.

(36:58):
So Nigerian mills werenot visually shown love.
I think it has like the best way it,so when you would see photography like
open and jam, it didn't look so great.
I think like you could even say that,um, there was a point in time where,
why are you looking at me like that?

(37:18):
I, I think there was a point in timethat we even had a discussion about like.
Making Nigerian food look niceis like a challenge, right?
Yeah.
And like, I think over time and likedoing Nigerian food for like big
brands, in fact, there was even onetime where like the brief was more

(37:41):
like, oh, make things look authentic.
And like literally, I think a challengethat we kind of had was, oh dude, how do
you style Nigerian food and elevate it?
But like, it doesn't need to be elevated,like literally just fricking do it.
Like you would do it in your house, man.

(38:02):
Like, you just put, you, you don't arrangeit, you just put rice on your plate and
you put chicken and you put your salad inand like, it, it's nice you're hungry, you
that that's what you want to eat, right?
And like I, I think the brand managerthat we were working with at that
point in time was like say, oh man.
This looks okay, but I think what youneed to do is just like scatter it around

(38:28):
and like being, because we can see howprim and proper she is as a person.
You know, she probably like tooklike a good 20 minutes to get
ready before this interview.
She looks amazing,
Super organized andall this type of stuff.
And like we're doing that shoot andshe was saying, yeah, like just make

(38:52):
it disorganized and like this goesagainst everything she stands for
because like she had planned everything.
We did the mood board, we pinned iton the notice board in the shoots.
It's gonna be like this.
She spits all the plates andlike all the deal shoots.
You're telling me Ishould scatter the food.

(39:13):
Like what do I look like?
And you know, like I'm taking the pictureswith the, I'm like, okay, just scatter it.
You know when, when she goes, wedo how we want, but just scatter it
while she's here and like you scatterit and it's like, wait, hold on.
You know, like you're takingpictures and it's like, oh my God.
Like this is like whatwas missing all along.

(39:35):
Like don't try to force this foodto be what is not like fine, do
all your nice lighting and likeyou do your normal styling tricks.
You know, you don'tfully, should I mention.
Well you, you, you style it.
Like you style it, like you.
Line with the culture.
Culture line with the culture.
You understand not like youthink it's supposed to look this

(39:55):
way to Ghana, like Western or.
Yeah.
Whatever.
So I think like that wouldsay is that it was another.
That was the turning.
Yeah.
And that was before that.
That was like a struggle for usbecause again, like, I mean I mentioned
before that there were barely anyfood photographers in Nigeria.
And so you think about the factthat we're trying to create stuff

(40:17):
that we don't have reference.
So we have to like, we have tocreate the template of how Nigerian
food is to be photographed.
So we have to figure that out'cause we don't have anything to.
Go against.
To reference.
Yeah, yeah.
Hearing you mention about knowing,okay, this dish wouldn't be served
with, with that side dish and itwouldn't be served at this time of day.

(40:40):
I mean, that reminds me so much of theTV show, the last of us and the first
season or the first episode, they featureda scene in Austin and Aaron and I, we
rolled our eyes because the way that theymade Austin look in the show, they made
it look like this country, western townand like everyone's wearing cowboy boots

(41:03):
and, and they were like featuring thisin like 2014 and 15 and I was just like,
okay, first of all, Austin's a city.
There's not.
Any country bump in anything in Austin.
And this looks more like a smallrural town in Texas, but this
isn't, it's like the misconceptionof what Austin looks like.

(41:24):
It just, it made me laugh so hard andI was like, obviously the people that
are making decisions, the creativedecisions, they've never been to Austin.
What's something that people outsideof Lagos outside of Nigeria, outside of
Africa, often miss or misunderstand about?
Like the food and the creativescene with where you were?

(41:45):
Mm. I think, actually, let me eventouch on what you were saying.
So it's kind of like that thingwhere Hollywood makes Mexico in a
certain, um, shade wise balance.
Yeah.
I think it's like that wholething of like looking at things
through stereotypical lenses, man.

(42:05):
Like if you, every,there's so much uniqueness.
Right around like food inAfrica and like cultures.
I mean, one thing that wedidn't even talk about, right?
I think like from transitioning,from being commercial photographers,
I think the next thing thatwe really talk about it.

(42:25):
Yeah, screw it.
It's in production anyway.
So like last year we startedworking on a documentary series.
Um, I mean, we haven't published anythingyet and like that's even a challenge in
its own way because trying to get funding,
I'll just say it is what it is, man.
Mm-hmm.
Like maybe this is like one of thosethings where I feel like every step of

(42:50):
our journey is like maybe we've been,think we've been ahead of our time, we've
been ahead of our time and it's fine.
Right?
It's 'cause like, oh, you starteddoing the retro photography when.
It wasn't really a thing.
And now the common thing, like commercialphotography kind of like entered that
space and it's like I still think likebrands over here don't rate us enough

(43:10):
or like don't give us enough chance.
Because like even theNigerian, non multinational
companies that do exist, right?
Great dude, like there's such a pain inthe ass because it's like why are you guys
still using stock images, bro, we're here.
We can do stuff for you.
We can elevate your brand, we canelevate your packaging or whatever.

(43:32):
Like screw the cost, man.
Like come on, like let's just work.
Maybe sometimes like I'm trying to givea proposal and the security guard is
like trying to literally gate keep youfrom entering the company and it's just
like blood was like, oh my goodness.
But whatever, like, anyway, I digresswith the documentary filmmaking.

(43:55):
So I think like we wanted totell the Nigerian food story
in an authentic type of way.
I mean, obviously you can't telleverything, but essentially I think we
wanted to start with like street foodbecause it's like, oh, that's one thing
that like everybody here can relate to.

(44:15):
Like everybody eats street food.
Even the upper class still like thetaste of suya from the suya place.
There might be like a localrestaurants where it's literally
just like, oh, you walk in like kindof unstructured in that it's not a
posh environment and it's literallylike, oh, give me two scoops of rice.

(44:36):
Give me like three pieces of beef.
Gimme this as well, gimme some plantain.
You know, everybody can relateto that over here, right?
So like, but once it'scapture street food.
But I think like the problem when westarted shooting street food is um, we
had willing participants, but when youstarted like pre-interviewing them and

(44:58):
like actually interviewing them, and Ithink we even went the extra mile dude.
Like we got a trans leaders to speakto them so they would be comfortable
speaking their local language or whatever.
So like they can tell you the realstory instead of like trying to get
them to speak in Queens English.
Right.
So whatever.
I think like a common point thatwe found was like most of these

(45:20):
guys were literally just doing foodbusiness as a means to survive.
Not because they actually necessarilyenjoyed doing this, and I never wanted
to be the one to sell that narrative.
Yeah.
Even if 10 people watch it, Idon't want to give that narrative.
Right.
Because you'll be tryingto talk about the food and.

(45:40):
Highlight the food and stuff andthey would be like, oh, oh, if I
get a, if I have another thing todo, I'll just leave this business.
But like, so.
I'm like, oh.
Oh my God.
But, but like the thing is,right, I'll use an example.
Like I think we shot a suya guywhere I used to live, right?
And.
Like, I had been eating at this CI guy'splace since, since I was a teenager.

(46:05):
I know I don't look that old, butthis was maybe like 15 years ago.
If I shave this off, Ilook like I'm 18 again.
I'm telling you.
So like I would go to this guy andfor those who dunno what suya is, it
is basically like barbecue, right.
Our local barbecue.
So I would go to this guy's place, right?

(46:26):
And like, I'm very particular aboutlike where I buy my suya from because
it has to be creme de la creme man.
Um, so like, I've been to so manysuya places and I can literally tell
you like there's one place I'm sohappy that they're close to our house
'cause it's the best, it's the best.
Man.
But like this guy's particular place,he would do some very creative things.

(46:48):
So like he, I have never seen this before.
He had this thing called container.
Right.
And he would take the intestineof like a cow and remove whatever
is inside the intestine, clean it,of course, sanitary procedures.
And he would stuff it with like, um, thehump from the cow, which is like a cut.

(47:10):
First.
Peppers.
Meats that.
With the soya spice.
So we make like a sausage.
You'll make a sausage out of it.
With like the onions and the pepper.
Yes.
And meat inside it.
We'll roast it.
That sounds so good.
To me.
That thing that.
Little thing, right?
For me it's like, what the fuck?
Like this is a labor of love.

(47:32):
Like how do you not make thisplace from a place of passion?
So in my mind, let's go interviewthis guy because like surely this
guy actually loves what he does.
Come to find out after interviewinghim and everything, like I
didn't even know what the hellhe was telling our translator.
It was just like, oh yeah, he'svery passionate about that.

(47:53):
Ask him again, whatever.
Like when we got somebody to actuallytranslate everything properly, it was
just like, damn like hard life, man.
Like he does not want tobe doing this for a living.
But unfortunately, it'slike, what else can I do?
This is the only thing I know how to do,so I'm just gonna continue doing this.
Yeah.
Right.

(48:13):
Yeah, and it's not like thosestories are not important, but.
We didn't wanna start out withlike pushing that narrative of
you don't care about your food,you don't care about your culture.
This is not something you're proud of.
This is not like, there's just so much.
Yeah.
Like that kind of narrativecoming out of Africa.
Like this is.
And like I.
Yeah, this is a struggle.
We from thoughts like.

(48:34):
Yeah.
So we wanted to, because the ideaof it is that we wanted to celebrate
African and Nigeria, or we wantto not want it, want to celebrate
and just like highlight right.
Platform, African and Nigerian food.
Right.
And so we want to createstories that celebrate it,
not stories that put it down.

(48:55):
And it sounds like there's.
Like an emotional connectionto food for y'all.
Yeah.
Food is the center of what you do,and you're proud of it, and you
wanna show it off, and you wanna showthe people who are making the food.
And so it's like a hard conversationto hear them say, eh, there's not
a lot of passion in it for me.
It's just something that I happen tobe good at and it's something that

(49:17):
allows me to take care of my family.
This is just Tuesday for me.
And you're like, what?
What?
What do you mean you'renot passionate about this?
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Because like there was even one, uh,okay, so like where she's from is in
like another parts of Nigeria that'slike one off flights from here and.

(49:40):
So there's this thing called bush meats,which is literally just like meats
that you buy from the bush, right?
Like in the, you.
Buy from the.
Bush?
No, sorry.
It's like whatever theycatch in the forest.
Well they call the bush the forest, right?
The.
Forest.
The bush.
Wild meats.
They, they catch it and theykill it and like whatever they

(50:04):
catch is like bush meats, right?
So it could be like antelope or itcould be, should I say grass cutter?
Grass cutter?
Yes.
Grass cutter.
Yeah.
Go, go Google.
Or grass cutter is Guys.
Wait, what are grass cutters?
Hold on, I'm gonna Googlewhat a grass cutter is.
Uh, am I gonna be terrified?
I'm gonna be scared, aren't I?

(50:26):
Oh, no.
See, this is, oh my God.
They look like Guinea pigs.
Yeah.
What?
Like, they eat, they eat them, man.
So like.
Those are huge.
Holy shit.
Oh my God.
I would die.

(50:47):
I would die if I ran into the.
The thing is, I've always wonderedhow they actually catch them because
like, I feel like next time I go toher side, to her part of the country,
I need to actually pay somebodythat goes to hunt these things.
Take me with you.
Like, uh, I don't care what timehe goes, just take me with you.
I wanna see how you actually.
Catch this thing.
Take me with you.

(51:09):
'cause like, because I feel like these animals are quite crafty, so like you have
to have like a certain level of expertisein catching them on a frequent basis.
Like he.
They look huge.
You're not going into the forest for fun.
Like you're coming back with somethingor you're not making money that day.
Right.
So like for you to catch these thingsconsistently, like I, I'm curious, I need

(51:33):
to actually see, but um, like when theymake the bush meats where she's from, like
I've never had anything like it beforeand I've had bush meat to the past, but
like from where she's from, oh my God.
Like is it.
Okay, so something you should know.
So.
Your
Experience.
What they should know is that where I'mfrom are known for really good food.

(51:55):
If you ask anyone in Nigeria, they wouldsay, Calabar people have the best food.
And true.
So we care a lot about food.
I'm trusting everything thatyou're saying food wise because.
I've never had a grass cutterfrom the pictures that I saw.
I'm like, this lookspretty damn good actually.
Oh, you'll love it.
You'll love it.

(52:15):
How do you go about finding thatconnection, that common ground
with them so that you feel likeyou do walk away with something?
So I think like what it was for us waswe hadn't been like thinking about,
maybe it's the subject matter, right?
But like we decided to look at a newage of like Nigerian chefs that aren't

(52:44):
afraid to experiment with either liketraditional ingredients or meals.
Techniques or.
Techniques, right?
But they just want to try somethingdifferent with those concepts.
And because like you'relooking at people that.
Are doing this as like a full-time thingand like they're willing to experiment

(53:08):
and push boundaries beyond like whatpeople know as like traditional food.
Right.
We felt like that would be the perfecttype of shift to focus on because like
they're actually doing it from a placeof passion and like they actually care
about the Nigerian or African foodstory and like they care about merging.

(53:31):
Yeah.
Because I think like that's the only wayyou get food to really be celebrated.
Like fusion cuisine islike one of those things.
Or probably.
Not necessarily fusion becausefusion means that you are
combining it with another culture.
So it is not necessarily that, butit's the idea of platforming people

(53:52):
who care about like the African orNigerian food just as much and they
are doing that in their everyday life.
That's what they're doing us.
And so we just obviously like talkabout them and showcase their stories
and what they're already doing.
Right.
People who are already doingthe work and it's like, well,
just amplifying their voices.

(54:12):
Right?
So it's not necessarilyfusion because actually.
No.
She doesn't do fusion.
You don't even say it's a fusion thing.
I would probably just say like,even if it's not fusion, right?
One of the people that we interviewedhad a take, whereas if maybe like
bush meats might be something youwould be scared to try, right?

(54:33):
But like yeah, familiar with theconcept of like a bruschetta, right?
So I could maybe make like abush meat bruschetta and you'd be
interested in trying that, right?
Because like a bruschetta is somethingthat you're already familiar but you.
Love with.
And like he gets to taste that bushmeat in like a nice tiny little amount.

(54:56):
Like you're more open to actuallytrying like the proper traditional Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, so like maybe you are familiarwith eating mashed potatoes, right?
And so if we typically eat yam in Nigeriaboiled and we try to serve it to you
boiled, it might be a bit hesitant, butif we mash the yam and it like it's more,

(55:18):
it's a bit more familiar to you, right?
So they're trying, they have interestingways in which they're trying to push
like Nigerian food out there whilst notlike losing the essence of it, right?
But just trying to, a lot of timeswe imagine it in other forms and
not think that Nigerian food has tobe boxed in a certain way, right?
And so obviously we thought thatthis was like a better angle to

(55:41):
go and more in line with likewhat we think about Nigerian food.
And so obviously those would be moreappropriate subjects to start with.
That's brilliant.
And.
I love that idea.
The last year I found myself justkind of going through the motions,
like, oh yeah, I'm a photographer.
This is the way I make my living.

(56:01):
There was no passion behind what I wasdoing, and so I need to like take a
look around and seek out other avenuesof creativity so that way when I come
back to photography and I come back tofood, I have something new to offer.
I have something new to contribute.
When we did the cookbook club and Iwas trying to find a Nigerian book to

(56:27):
highlight, I struggled to find one.
And the ones that I did find,there weren't any pictures.
And the ones that did have pictures,the pictures were from the nineties and
I was just like, okay, so I know thatthis is not what this looks like now.
Why?
Why isn't there more of this?

(56:49):
And.
I found myself frustratedas a photographer.
I was like, this sounds delicious.
This food sounds delicious.
I could totally seethis being photographed.
Why aren't there more books outthere, more restaurants out there
that are highlighting Nigerian food?
'cause it should be.
Yeah.
So I just that I would findthat really frustrating.

(57:10):
What do you think it would take to bringthat more, I mean, your documentary series
de, I wanna know when that's coming out.
It would definitely be agood push in that direction.
What can you do as food photographersto continue pushing that?
What would.
That be?
That's a good question.
I'm full of 'em.
Probably just say like my owntake on things is, um, I dunno.

(57:33):
I think you might see that imageof Nigerian food being pushed
out or like African food beingpushed out more by like content
creator nowadays more so than like.
Professional food photographersper, you know what I'm saying?

(57:53):
Because I think what it, it's like thiskind of situation where everybody around
the side of the world right now, atleast in these times of global inflation,
nobody is really trying to, I feellike, I don't know if it's like this
where you are as well, but my take onit is, um, I feel like creatively right

(58:17):
now, not too many people are trying tocreate for just creative sake, right?
Is if this thing is not making memoney, well am I gonna spend so much
time and effort just doing portfoliowork and putting it out there and
okay, people are gonna see it.
So what.
Yeah, well, like people are tryingto create, so like you hardly find.

(58:38):
And maybe I, I feel like maybethis trend is gonna switch around
one day when people are tired oflooking at the viral reels and stuff,
man, make photography great again.
Please.
Like, I just wanna go on socialmedia and just look at nice pictures.
Again, not always videos, likekind of just press a button
and be like picture slowly.

(58:59):
How has your creative eye changed over theyears from when you started videography
or photography and now as you're doingthis documentary series, how has your
creative eye changed over the years?
I think like, I don't know if this islike a thing that every photographer
goes through, because even withmy pictures of people, right?

(59:23):
Like in the beginning when you probablystarted doing photography and like
editing in Photoshop, I'm sure youwould throw on like a thousand presets
and over-edited the hell out of that.
Make sure the blues are really blueand the orange you do the orange and
blue effect and all that nonsense.
You started having like this skinretouching thing going on and like

(59:46):
you'd over touch everybody's skin.
I think looking at my portraitsand stuff that I do now, right.
I barely even do anything in termsof editing because I'll make sure the
lighting is good right then and thereand like poses everything is top-notch.
Right.

(01:00:07):
And the only thing I'm really doingwith the editing when I'm on my computer
is literally just removing blemishes.
Right.
That's it.
And I think like with food, I thinkwe've started shooting things in
like a more authentic type of manner.
So even when it comes, that's likewhere you even do all the work, man.
Like actual shooting of things andarranging things and all the rest.

(01:00:31):
Right?
Because like when it comes to theactual editing, we're just removing
blemishes at the end of the day.
That's like how the style has changed.
It's just become like a more authenticexperience at the end of the day.
Maybe now we're just doing is, oh, thebackground has a stain on it's remove
that, or the plate has that little steam.
We forgot to clean itself.

(01:00:52):
Yeah, we need to remove that.
I mean, that's literally it.
Or.
Maybe like maybe this lightglare is a bit too much here.
Just take care of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think like the, what I say, the,the kind of vibe that the clients
want, at least right now in thisera is seemingly like converging
with the kind of style we want.
So remember that they were coming from,they just wanted the stock images, the

(01:01:15):
white plates and the white background.
And so obviously they were moving awayfrom those stock images because they
wanted stuff that looked more authentic.
And then remember that you also talkedabout backlash from the audience
about like things looking like fakeand them not trusting it and stuff.
So obviously the brand wanted tomove in a way that was more relatable
to people and more authentic.

(01:01:36):
And that seemed to like alsofit with like the kind of like
the vibe we wanted, right?
So whilst we now say, okay, we'redoing work for commercial work,
it doesn't look so so commercial.
It still looks, they bringmore like editorial, right?
As opposed to commercial.
And so I think that's like.
Something that has again changed.

(01:01:57):
Right now we're like more comfortablein like our style and don't feel like
we have to change a lot to, I meanobviously like there are the briefs
that are not really that, right?
Like we just did a bridge recently oflike a biscuit brand that's like launching
in Nigeria and like it's like more likea lot of it is like product shot of the
biscuit together and stuff like that.
Obviously just have to likebe clean and everything.

(01:02:20):
But apart from that, generally, soI think our creative eye right now
and this regards to photographyis more like decisive, more like
sure of what we're going for.
Less confused our creative eye regardinglike this documentary work we're doing.
I'll say like we're back tolike square one of how we were
when we started photography.

(01:02:41):
Kind of, yeah.
But yeah, we're figuring that part out.
This question is for you Uduak.
What's a dish that you think the worldhasn't visually appreciated enough yet.
To be honest, like I don't knowthat the world has visually
appreciated any Nigerian.

(01:03:01):
Yeah.
Any Nigerian dish.
That's true.
I feel like maybe like taste wise dishesthat is jollof rice and pork puff and
know those kind of, do you know puff puff?
Did you see anything about puff puff?
Yes, yes, yes.
Are they like the donut balls?
Like they're kind of like.
They're like beignets donuts.
They're fried.

(01:03:22):
Ooh, yes, yes.
So I was gonna make that forour cookbook and then I thought,
well that's a lot of work.
So I'm not doing that and I don'tknow how to deep fry anything.
Oh, well you should.
You should try that.
Oh, they look so good.
Anyways, so I feel like those kindof dishes are known and like suya and
stuff, both like for how they taste,I don't know, like our dishes are

(01:03:44):
really appreciated for how they look.
I don't really think so, but interms of which I think would really
work well, like visually and couldbe more appreciated visually, I'll
say like our soups, well we have alot of soups in Nigeria, like a lot.
So our soups are not like, first ofall, like they're not light soups.

(01:04:04):
Right.
And typically you eat them with aside dish, which is like, of like
a carb side dish and dip it in thesoup so they're like rich and heavy.
Right.
But yeah, we have a lot of soups.
Yeah.
Mostly very nutritious.
So diverse.
So vibrant.
We use like all kinds like.
There's almost no vegetable in Nigeria.
There is no use for a soup.

(01:04:26):
So we have a lot of soups and the textureslike, so we, so like, you know the
chickens, you made a chicken sesame dish.
Right?
So you know, like there, there'sso-called benne seed soup and it's
essentially like a sesame seed soup.
Yes.
So we have like a whole lot of soups.
Oh.
And like different colors.

(01:04:47):
We have soups that are orange.
We have soups that are made of blades.
We have soups that are made of palm fruit.
We have soups that are madeof like so many things.
So soups look really good.
And I think the word that, that.
I'm looking at, the black sesameseed soup and Ooh, that's beautiful.
Yeah.
Like Manny mentioned is not ascomplicated as like we initially

(01:05:10):
thought, but like, I like the factthat you mentioned like the dishes,
like the plate you put it in, right?
Like that's somethinglike really important.
Like you need plates thatreally contrast with the dishes.
So my very handy tool for stylingNigerian dishes is a color wheel.
What's it called?
Oh ha.

(01:05:30):
Have the color wheel.
And I literally like tryto map it out, right?
Yes.
The color wheel and color theory.
Yeah, the color wheel really helps me.
But then another thing that I wouldsay, particularly for Nigerian dishes
with like the styling, and it has tobe like, and I know this is a pre-K
for any kind of food photography.

(01:05:51):
We worked, especially for Nigerianfood because we use a lot of
vegetables and we use like fresh andwe hardly use, um, processed food.
So it, the food has to be fresh andit seems so like mundane, but like
that's like a make or break, right?
So I had this client and theyhad like a consultant, right?

(01:06:13):
I'm not really sure what theconsultant was consulting on, but like.
Yeah, he was that consultant.
And he came for the shoot, buthe was like a big star celebrity
or a personality, right.
Or important person.
And he came for the shoots and he wasgetting upset that the shoot started that.
I can't remember what the courtwas ignite that he came here and

(01:06:36):
why are all, where are the dishes?
What they not all made, like he expectedthat when he comes at nine, if we have 10
dishes to shoot, we should have startedcooking them at like 5:00 AM What?
And when he comes, when it's time for,shoot, we have, we have it all made.
I'm like, I thought he wassupposed to be a consultants.
Like have you never done food photography?

(01:06:58):
You can't make the food down and tipthe food in like the pots, right?
By the time it's time forthat dish, it's like crap.
And then obviously like most,especially for like, again,
like Nigerian dishes, right?
Let me ask this question.
What do you.
Each bring to the tablecreatively that the other doesn't.

(01:07:20):
So what do you think your strengthsare and how do the two of you balance
your strengths and your weaknesses tostay this dynamic team that you are?
Okay, so I'll say like first thingsfirst, Rani is like very technical, right?
Like generally Rani islike a technical handy guy.

(01:07:41):
Rani likes anything'scomputer electronics.
Like even if your car is, if you're likea friend of his like stranded on the
road, like they car, he's the person thatthey would call, he would know what to
do or he will know the right mechanics.
So he's a very like handy,he likes technical details
and all those kind of things.
So obviously like with ourwork, anything that is the

(01:08:02):
technical detail, the lighting.
Yeah, Rani knows it.
He knows it, or he's a nerd like that.
So that's definitelysomething Rani brings.
And I like that you mentioned likenot just like the hard skills,
right, but like also like guessin terms of like soft skills.
Rani is a very happy go luckyguy, optimistic, vivrant,

(01:08:22):
energy warm and all that.
So like that's very good energy thathe brings because even in terms of
like our client dynamics, we also havelike different client dynamics, right?
So like Rani is one that.
The clients would likely warm up to?
Well, it also depends onthe client personality.
Rani,
will we chat with them, have some randomdiscussions about their cat or their dog,

(01:08:47):
but they really kinda has to hand theclient around to me because when it's
time to deliver the work, I'm the onethat would make sure the client's happy
with the deliverables in that sense.
Right.
Like obviously like the projectis on timeline, the deliverables
are met and stuff like that.
So I'm very like produce producer ish.

(01:09:08):
Right.
So I, I'm big picture oriented, so Imake sure like the different pieces I
enter, I'm very good at like interpretingthe brief deliverables, making sure
like the different pieces when weneed talent, they are pulled in really
like just planning everything out.
Right.
Executing it.
And then, but also like in terms oflike the creativity, I have like a very
good eye for detail and like aestheticsand styling and stuff like that.

(01:09:32):
So like.
I wouldn't have the vision ofhow I needed to, how we want it
to look like necessity, right?
How I want it to be composedand stuff like that.
And the different elements Iknow I to bring to the place
that would give us that.
But like Rani would be like crossinglike, oh, okay, if we move the light
this way, it would help the texturea bit better and stuff like that.

(01:09:54):
So in terms of like the creativitywe book, like bring like those
two, those two different things.
Rani is the one that when the clientwants to like, remember the story
he was saying earlier that, ah,let's just do for our portfolio.
I'll be the one that would be like,no, you cannot pay this amount.
We would not do this job,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

(01:10:15):
Rani is one that like time spend?
Oh, maybe.
Oh no.
I think now he's getting a bit tougher.
Right.
I'll just, I'll still, I'llgive my you, but I'll still give
you what I wrote in the invite.
Yes.
Week.
I agree, Don.
I edited pictures.
That's all I'm giving you man.
Ain't nobody got time for that.

(01:10:37):
If you want more feet.
Although I think it was like, I think likeonce we had a photo shoot and there was
this, one of the meals was pizza, right?
And like you needed plaincardboard pizza boxes.
And the person we had ordered fromFailed to deliver on time and they made

(01:11:02):
the pizza thing, like one of the firstthings we had to shoot in the morning.
Oh my God.
And it's like, fuck sake man.
So literally I call everybodyinto the kitchen and I'm like,
guys, go on Google and on Google,you're going to type pizza near me.

(01:11:23):
Right.
Find restaurants that are selling pizzaand have plain cardboard pizza boxes.
That's what you need to look for.
So like everybody issearching their phones.
Then somebody now turns his phone to me,oh, this person has pizza boxes for sale.
I'm like, no,

(01:11:44):
pizza me, me.
We're gonna order a pizza or likefive fucking pizzas or whatever.
We're gonna go there for the pizza.
But tell them like, look, justput in an nylon bag or whatever.
We just came for the boxes.
Whatever you stick behind.
I'll go back, I'll come backwith boxes and they're looking
at me like I'm mad right.

(01:12:05):
And like they're pressing theirphones like unsure, like, dude, like
what are you saying we should do?
And I'm like, oh, I found one.
And I called them.
How much for three Margheritapizzas large, they're like this
amount, when will they be ready?
By 10 minutes I'll be there in five.
Then I'm like, I'm literally going right?

(01:12:25):
And like I go with one ofthe production assistants.
I'm like, let's go, let's go.
Then like I get to the restaurant andI'm like, you cannot think of much.
And I am nylon bag.
You can put the pizza in there.
Me.
Just give me the boxes.
I just, it's three pizzas.
I ordered the three boxes.
Thank you.
Giving the pizza in nylon.

(01:12:46):
I'll meet you back at the shoots.
And I had the taxiwaiting to take me back.
I like to make matters work.
Like the road that we weredoing the shoot on was blocked
off because of construction.
So I had to like jump over aconstruction barrier to get back
to the shoots with the pizza boxes.

(01:13:07):
Oh my gosh.
Well, yeah, that's thekind of person that I am.
Like if it just goes beyond like thelighting and stuff, it's like, oh, if
there's that kind of problem, I'll find a.
When you're married and you own a businesstogether, there will be disagreements,
there will be different viewpoints.
And so how do you keep thework work and the personal?

(01:13:30):
The personal?
Well, I think it's like because ofa lot of our work is like project
based, so you're only really justworking in waves essentially when
you have like a lot of work to do.
So it's like, it's either the photoshoots or like the pre-production

(01:13:52):
before the photo shoots.
So it's like, oh, wehave to do this and that.
Um, uh, yeah, just going througha checklist really, to be honest.
Then like shoots.
Whatever.
Like you don't even think aboutto marriage life or anything.
You're just like tryingto get this outta the way.
Then I think like probablythe post-production.

(01:14:16):
So like we just have our way of doingthings where it's like nobody has
to stand on anybody's head, right?
'cause I think with like post-production,I'm like the one that takes the lead
in that regard and it's like, oh,I'll just call and be like, oh yeah,
just come and check everything andcrop it before we send it to clients.

(01:14:38):
Um, or is this good?
Or, I feel like maybe post-productionworks in such a way us like, oh,
she's better at making selections.
But like I'll do a narrow downand she'll do a narrow down.
She'll send it to them toapprove and I'll edit that.
You know?
So if we just have this unspokenprocess of how things go.

(01:14:58):
And it's cool.
I think the friction points wastrying to force her to like edit
pictures and it's just like no need.
Like she doesn't Was.
That a friction point?
Yeah.
Because you were frustrated like, oh,you don't know how to edit this like
this or like, it was just inefficient.
Like, I didn't mind being theperson editing, 'cause like I

(01:15:21):
have this whole nice PC over here.
Like she probably won'tlet me show the messy desk.
It's all good.
But you know, like I actuallyenjoy editing good stuff, so I
don't mind being the editing guy.
Like it's whatever.
It just works like that.
If I'm editing, she's probably just gonnabe in another room doing whatever, like

(01:15:41):
in outside that I'm editing pictures.
I mean we just, it's whatever,like we just do our thing now.
Like everybody's on their own.
She is.
I don't think that there's any.
I think maybe the only time sir, guiltyshots that there would be a problem is if
it's like seven or eight at night and I'mfeeling like, oh, come and check this.

(01:16:01):
And it's like, tomorrow please.
I'm done for the day.
I'm trying to relax.
And it's like, oh, just come and see.
Just, just be like, tomorrow,tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.
And she's setting that boundary.
She's like, I am done tomorrow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like Rani and I workat different timelines.
Like I wake up at 5:00 AMRani wakes up much later.

(01:16:24):
Hey, I wake up at five.
Yeah, I wake up at five and I sleep.
So Rani, I'm not going to be working at3:00 AM except like there's a deadline.
But most times if there's a deadline,I already kind of factor that in.
But I mean, obviously sometimes thereare like circumstances, but like.
On a random day at 3:00 AM ifthere's no deadline or pressure.

(01:16:47):
No 3:00 AM man, come on.
It's pm.
Like, no.
So the thing is right, I am the kindof person that is like on my computer.
So like two in the morning, man.
Okay, 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM 2:00 AM 3:00 AM.
Man, what's the difference?
I almost chuck on my water.

(01:17:08):
2:00 AM now I'm in bed.
I'm in bed.
What?
So I'm just saying that because wework at different timelines, sometimes
it's hard to, but I mean, it bringsme to what I wanted to say before

(01:17:28):
is that I don't think we have any.
Find like lines between like our workand personal because like our work
is so like woven into who we are.
I think the problem maybe if wehad like another kind of work
to get oversight different.
So I think that as we're understandingeach other personal wise while

(01:17:50):
also kind of understanding eachother, like workwise as well.
Also like leaning into each other'sstrengths, workwise while also leaning
each other's strengths like personal wise.
And so like regarding work, heknows that, oh, I'm good at this.
I know he's good at this.
I would like, okay, if we havelike a lighting issue, right?
And I think the lighting should bethis way and many things, the lighting

(01:18:11):
should be this way, I'm gonna likelikely defer to what Rani is saying
because I know, and we both knowthat Rani is good at like lighting.
If there is a styling challengeand we have different opinions,
he's more likely going to defer towhat I say because he knows that,
okay, that is like my strong suit.
So I think that over time we've justlike learned each other in that way.

(01:18:32):
And so also that, that's thesame thing that like express
like personal wise, right?
So we kind of like allow each other,like have our wins here and there,
like, because we like respect, likeyeah, we respect like what each
person, um, brings to the table.
And if someone cares aboutsomething a lot, you just let
them have what they care about.
If you don't care if when you have whatyou really care about, they letting

(01:18:55):
you have what you really care about.
So I think it's just, I don't thinkthere's any like fine line, right?
Like obviously, like now for instance,he talked about the fact that we're
working on like a documentary, right?
And that's kind of like our baby.
And so it is like we can'tbe talking about our baby at.
9:00 PM I mean it's technically worth,but like we really care about it.
So like our work and businesslives are like sort of like woven.

(01:19:19):
So.
Yeah.
That makes total sense.
That makes total sense.
You kind of already answered it a littlebit, but what's the dream destination
if perfect project, perfect client thatyou could have, what destination or
market would you love to break into next?

(01:19:41):
Good question.
I think, um, yeah, like you said,we already kind of touched about it.
Like I think it would really bephotographing more African dishes.
Yeah.
Like across Africa.
I mean like is even the same thingfor like our documentary, right?
Documenting dishes across Africa.
So I can't say one specificcountry, but just like expanding.

(01:20:01):
Right.
Actually, I have one in mind.
Okay.
I
feel like for me.
I probably wanna focus on maybe like Kenyaor Madagascar, because like, I think, I
mean, I haven't eaten much Kenyan cuisinein my life, but from what I know about
it, there's, I like Indian food as well.
So I think from what I've researched,Kenya has a bit of Indian influence

(01:20:25):
in their food because like immigrantsfrom India came to Kenya, so like
influence their own Kenyan cuisine.
So I really like, like.
Chapatis and stuff like.
That.
Yeah, it's like Shawarma inNigeria is ludicrous as far
I'm concerned because they putFrankfurters in its man in Shawarma.

(01:20:46):
Like why are you puttingFrankfurters in Shawarma, man?
It's just one of those things youjust gotta accept, like food changes
when it travels around the world.
So it's okay.
It's okay.
I mean, I'm guilty.
It's okay.
Okay, so last question.
Um, where can the listeners followyou, find you, when are you planning

(01:21:10):
to release the docuseries so thatway we can all be ready for that?
Amazing.
So you can follow us on 1 11 7 collective on Instagram.
Our website is also 11 1 7 collective.com.
As far as the documentary goes, heyman, no dates set yet, but uh, we'll be

(01:21:36):
sure to let you know and it will be big.
I can promise you that.
I can promise you that.
Well, thank you so much for beingon the show, for coming on here
and talking with me and so I justcan't express how much I enjoy.
I mean, I enjoyed thisconversation so much.

(01:21:59):
This episode is written and producedby me your host, Mica McCook.
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(01:22:20):
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