#6: Too Much Softball aka Sleepaway Camp

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
-Attention passengers, today on Strangers on a Podcast, we go back to camp with this 1983 summer camp slasher.

(00:08):
It contains short shorts, crop tops, and too much softball.
Join us, won't you?
[Music]

(00:32):
-Hello! Welcome to the movie car here at Strangers on a Podcast. I'm the conductor and with me is...
-I'm Grim Weed.
-Hello Grim Weed!
-Hello.
-We're called strangers on a podcast because we're two guys who don't know each other and we're talking about movies to see how they bring people together.
Are we gonna drive each other nuts? Are we gonna curse and scream one another out? Are we gonna stay on topic?

(00:53):
-That's not happened yet.
-Hopefully though it will.
-One of these days.
But I don't see it being anytime soon.
-Maybe.
And tonight we are talking about the one and the only, except for its five sequels and counting, Sleepaway Camp.
-Well there is still only one Sleepaway Camp.
-Well, yes, but they made five sequels.
-Yeah, but those aren't just sleepaway camp, but sleepaway camp something else.

(01:14):
-I don't know. I feel weird saying the one and the only and then saying the name of a movie that has that many sequels.
-The one and only first installment.
-The one and only first installment of sleepaway camp.
Yes, there you go.
-Solved that problem.
-That's one way to solve it. Yes, I suppose.
Now for those out there who aren't familiar with sleepaway camp, shame on you.

(01:37):
-What have you been doing with your life?
-If you haven't seen Sleepaway Camp, that's okay.
That means you have yet, you just haven't watched it yet, and you have a treat in store for you.
For a little background on the movie, it was released in 1983,
and it was written and directed by the same guy, a guy named Robert Hiltzik.
The makeup department really stood out.
It was Ed French, Diane Lawrence, and Suzanne Pozhek.

(01:59):
Special effects also by William Billowitt and Ed Fountain.
And they all did a pretty good, fine job for Sleepaway Camp.
What's great about Sleepaway Camp, I thought, well first of all, it's just...
-It enjoys playing softball.
-It enjoys playing softball.
It's the happy, bittersweet coming-of-age tale of a young, shy girl coming out of her shell while she attends a few weeks of fun in the sun at a happy upstate New York summer camp.

(02:20):
Actually, no. It's a brutal slasher film about someone killing the bullies at a summer camp that, as far as I could tell, feeds and houses the kids who go there for like a whole month or more during the summer.
I mean, how long do you think that that summer was going on for them there?
-Well, sleepaway camps generally go for a while, if I remember right.
Filming this they had to wait for the camp to actually close so they didn't start filming until like late September and October because the camp was open July August September.

(02:50):
-So like is that how these sleep away camps work like the kids would show up in August or something and they wouldn't leave till September when schools about to start or something?
-I know a lot of them would be a few weeks at least.
-A few weeks is a few weeks. My gosh.
-Yeah, it's not like a day camp where you just take your kid for the day and pick them up at the end of the day. This is like they're in cabins in the woods. And there's a reason why the cabin in the woods campground or not campground, but the summer camp like Friday the 13th and all those it's that's what all that was.

(03:21):
-Yes, it's as the genre, the summer camp slasher.
-Well, yeah, but I mean, that's where if those kind of camps didn't exist,
we wouldn't have the genre. -Exactly.
-But still, I was just always like watching it.
I felt kind of sorry for the kids because they must have some pretty uninvolved parents.
I mean, the kids are in school nine months out of the year.
And during the summer, mom and dad shipped them off to a sleepaway campsite

(03:42):
so they can get a break.
-Well, don't you remember ever seeing in movies or TV shows or anything
where it's the beginning, beginning the school year
and the friends are just getting back together because somebody's been away at camp all summer?
-Yeah, I've seen that.
-That's...
-But I just... but still, I mean...
-That's what it is. You're away at camp all summer.
-Shocked me for the sheer number of... yeah, like the amount of time they spend at this camp.

(04:05):
It's just like, what the hell?
I mean, it looked like a pretty expensive place... expensive place too, with like a ton of counselors,
a staffed kitchen, and maybe a hundred or more kids getting off the buses.
I was a kid in the 80s and I never got to go to summer camp because my parents said it was too expensive.
While I'm watching this movie, I have to conclude that the whole summer camp phenomenon is based on rich parents' desire to pawn off their kids on anyone but themselves as much as the year is possible.

(04:26):
-Often, yeah. I mean, look at Judy. What do you think her story is?
-Probably that her parents give her anything and-
-Or even Meg. You know there's some daddy issues there.
-Yeah, Meg had problems.
-But we're getting way ahead of ourselves.
-Meg was just a complete bitch. I'm sorry, but I mean, I don't- hey, you shouldn't judge people, but when it's a movie character who never shows any redeeming qualities, you can- I feel-
-Yeah, even Judy at one point showed some kind of redeeming quality.

(04:48):
-Yeah, but I mean Meg was just, I mean Angela is clearly a troubled kid.
-Yeah.
-Who needs some sort of extra special attention from a camp counselor role model.
And Meg is just proves completely incapable of engaging or understanding this child at every turn.
And in fact proves to be a hostile force in her life.

(05:09):
And yes, as you said, we're getting that for ourselves.
-Yeah, we're jumping way ahead.
-The kids might have rich parents, but they all talk like truckers and sailors though.
A lot of the comedy in the movie comes from the ridiculous amount of swearing that goes on in the camp as kids trash talk each other with counselors joining in most of the time.
-Or just completely ignoring it.
-Yeah.

(05:29):
-A lot of times it's hard to tell which ones are the counselors, which ones are the campers.
-I couldn't tell through most of the movie. I'll get to that later. I mean, I don't know what the age range for the campers is supposed to be, but it's...
-Well, the age range for the counselors look like they're about like 40s to 60s.
-Yeah. Also, Sleepaway Camp stars Felissa Rose as the very quiet Angela.

(05:50):
As far as other cast members go, it stars Jonathan Cheerston as her cousin Ricky.
Karen Fields as uber bitch Judy.
Christopher Collette as Ricky's friend Paul.
Mike Kellen as Mel Kostick, the camp owner.
Catherine Cambiez, the sadistic camp counselor Meg, who we've already talked about as being a complete bitch,
the late great Desiree Gould as Aunt Martha, Frank Trent Saladino as Bunk 19 head counselor Jean,

(06:17):
Paul D'Angelo as Ronnie the head counselor, Robert Earl Jones, James Earl Jones' father,
as Ben the cook, and Owen Hughes as Artie, who is way too open about being a pedophile.
- Oh yeah. - And Ben is way too tolerant of Artie's predilections -Oh yeah.
-It's seriously creepy. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna name for everyone in the cast because the movie is really crowded and full of throwaway

(06:39):
One-line characters with names. That's the main cast in if you want to see the names of everyone in it
-Yeah, those are really the only ones that matter. -Yeah, just you can go to IMDb and read -the way this is done
it feels like they actually just did a summer camp and
Randomly decided we're gonna film over here today while all these other events and everything else are going on

(07:00):
-There are a ton of kid extras in this movie. Oh, yeah, and it looked like they were all upstate New York kids
So I mean, yeah
-A lot of them were brought in which actually caused the production to completely come to a halt at one point
-Why -well because there was a nice little relationship between Ricky and Angela behind the scenes
And they brought in a bunch of extras from New York and at the time he was 17

(07:25):
she was 13 and they brought in some extras and she says "how can I compete with a buxom 19 year old?"
-Oh.
-And because of the heartbreak and all that things got a little tense and
stopped production to the point to where the director had to take the two of them out somewhere
and she she says they took them bowling he says they locked her he locked them in a room together
and said figure it out.

(07:46):
-Well that's um I remember Felicia Rose saying she was boy crazy at the time of the filming so
-Oh yeah.
-13 year old girl full of hormones having crazy puberty in a movie of all things
It's gonna it's gonna get weird especially in this movie because this movie gets weird as it is it goes some strange places
-How about we just go with from how it starts? -As this

(08:07):
well as for the story itself
it starts with a flashback as we see a dad with his two young kids on a little sailboat on a lake as the dad is
Working on something with his back to the kids as they watch a speedboat draging a skier
The kids are a pair of life vests wearing mischief makers though and they push their dad in the water.
He pulls the boat over as he falls and they all end up in the water.

(08:28):
Then the idiot speedboat driver lets his rich girl passenger take a turn driving and she isn't watching where she's going and runs over the capsize sailboat and the dad and both kids.
To the horror of the skier who's screaming for them to turn.
-While everybody else just kind of stands there or sits and looks on.
The skier is freaking out.
out. -Yeah, -the guy on the beach just standing there. The two in

(08:50):
the boat are just turned around looking back. Nobody's doing
anything while the skier is just had the panic level turned
up to 15. -Yeah, like I think what would have been smarter
for the dad and the two kids in the water to do is if he would
have just like -gone under and got under the boat? -Yeah, grab them by the
ankles and just blown out every amount of air every molecule of

(09:11):
air in his lungs to yank his kids under the water as hard as
as he could as soon as that speedboat went over them.
-Well, they would have had to get under the sailboat because to get them that low to avoid
the prop on that speedboat, they would have had an issue and they both had life jackets
on so to pull them under far enough to avoid that prop would have been really difficult.
-Possibly, but maybe he could have pulled them over to get them under the sailboat.

(09:34):
-Or you know, turn the boat. They had a lot of time.
-They should have turned the boat, but by the time the driver and the girl who he let drive
the boat realize what's about to happen. They don't have much time to react.
-Oh no, they still had plenty of time once they realized.
-He tells the girl, "turn the boat, turn it now!" And he leans over and she's not turning it very fast
because she's probably freezing up. He tries to grab the wheel and accidentally hits the throttle

(09:59):
that speeds the boat up immensely. It's a horrifying accident. At the end of it we see
I think we see the boy paddling in a life vest, then we see the girl's life vest float bloody to the surface
And we see the dad floating like a dead body.
So it's not a happy beginning.
-Yeah, one kid, body floating, and a mangled life vest.

(10:20):
-Yeah. Now I paid close attention to all the dialogue as best I could though.
The dad on the sailboat's name is John.
The boy's name is Peter.
Wikipedia says the guy on the shore is Lenny.
Where that name is said in the movie, I do not know.
It was probably right there in the opening scene.
I forgot or may have missed it somehow because curse my idiot brain.
-I don't remember hearing it at all.
-I don't remember hearing it.

(10:40):
-And everything I've seen about this always refers to him as the guy on the beach.
-The guy on the beach.
The movie is a bit of a mystery as it plays out and it's famous for its twist ending,
which I don't know if we're going to spoil.
-I don't think we should.
-I don't think we should either.
We could put in a spoiler alert and tell the people, tell our listeners.

(11:00):
-If you haven't watched it, stop at this point.
-Stop at this point and pick it up in 39 seconds or something.
-We're just gonna stop at this point and then pick it back up after you watch the movie because everything else is just gonna spoil it.
-Yeah, we could do that. We'll have to see.
The movie though is a bit of a mystery.
Like every mystery, it rewards the audience that pays attention and reads the clues as the movie plays out.

(11:23):
Now eight years after the boats accident, we meet Dr. Martha Thomas, who we just know is Aunt Martha.
-Yeah, it's Aunt Martha.
-Martha.
-Well, unless you listen to the kids in the beginning, then it's Aunt Martha.
-Well, Mon Mothma was the only other girl in Star Wars, so...
-No, not Mon Mothma.
Aunt Motha.
-Okay, the kids have a bit of an up New York accent.

(11:43):
-Yeah, they're...
Um, I heard somebody say it was, um, Brooklyn Jewish.
That's how they describe the accent.
-Nothing wrong with that.
-No, but it's very distinctive.
-We meet Dr. Martha Thomas, aka Aunt Martha,
as she's getting her two children ready to go off to camp.
She is one quirky cat.
-Oh yeah.
-The performance by Desiree Gould is as campy as one will ever find -outside of Twin Peaks.

(12:07):
-Aunt Martha comes off as one of the oddest ducks to ever quack across the screen.
She speaks to herself in this ridiculous sing-song voice just bursting with happiness,
and then she'll stop, put her finger on her chin, and speak like in asides about alternate scenarios,
shaking her head, going like, "Oh, that wouldn't do. That wouldn't do one bit."
-It's like she's putting her finger to her chin and pressing the button that switches her inner dialogue to outer dialogue.

(12:31):
-And she does it often. I think she does it like three or four times in the one scene she's in.
-Yeah, I think so.
-And then she shrugs and just goes back to being her smiling ridiculous self.
Even her outfit is insane.
She looks like a 50s housewife buttoned up in a bright white blouse, an off-white cardigan, and a red cravat
with a matching red and blue beret that looks almost pinned in place.
A shocking opening of the movie, The Sight and Sound of Aunt Martha, really throws the audience for a loop.

(12:55):
We go from gritty melodrama to campy kitsch.
But we also meet Ricky and his cousin Angela. Ricky is an average kid who seemed a little like a jock but mostly just a kid with a big personality and attitude.
His cousin Angela is quiet as a mouse and seems scared to talk to anyone most of the time.
Aunt Martha has to give them their physical exam slips to turn into the camp because for whatever reason the kids couldn't get them from anyone but her.

(13:17):
But it's okay because Aunt Martha is a doctor. A doctor of what? We never learn.
We see she might have had a screw or two loose but at least she comes off as caring.
She tells Ricky to take care of his cousin while they're at camp and he promises he will.
-Yeah and then there's "I'll never tell".
-Yes, I think she says "Don't tell them where you got your physical exams"
and Ricky says "No matter what they do I'll never tell".

(13:38):
-Yeah so it starts out with okay, there's something not right with her but there's something not right with the situation.
-Yeah, something is going on in that house.
But the kids get to leave the house for a summer so apparently there's some level of normalcy.
But we say goodbye to Aunt Martha and the kids are off to camp.
Buses pull into camp, Arrowak and unloads as kids with their travel bags run off the buses to invade the camp.

(13:59):
-And a lot of them were family.
-A lot of them were family?
-Yeah, apparently, Felissa had a lot of family that came to visit her on set.
And they're like, "Oh yeah, throw them in."
So a lot of those kids that were running off the bus, there was like some cousins and her brother.
You know, there was a bunch of family that ended up as extras.
-Based on that scene, I can imagine they needed all the extras they could get.

(14:21):
-Yeah, and that went from, okay, these are obviously kids that like maybe five or six years old. And then there's are they kids? I mean, there was a range of one extreme to the other.
-That's one of the things I found oddest about the camp itself was is was the age range of I think we've been talking about earlier who was how old are these? How old are the kids and how old are the counselors and how young into the campers get because there were some very young kids I seem to recall running from the buses and

(14:49):
-And I know camps will do like age ranges, but I didn't think they would have just all of them at one camp.
I could have sworn it would have been, okay, we'll do like this group or this age to this age, and then a different camp would be like an older group of kids or whatever.
-That would make sense. I mean, that's how schools do it.
-But yeah, to have that big a range of ages, that would have to have been a huge camp just to kind of keep everybody in appropriate places.

(15:17):
-In some kind of order.
-Yeah, -but as the kids are invading the camp the owner of Mel and the head counselor Ronnie with probably the most amazing set of pecs that have ever been put on screen.
And I'm gonna steal a line from Mystery Science Theater here and he's got his batch out.
-Who said that crow or Joel or Mike Servo?

(15:38):
-I want to say it was Tom and it was I can't remember it was like the one of the pod creature ones or a swamp thing. It was one that were like I thought he was like a coach at a college or something. Then he goes to investigate. I don't remember anyway, but he's wearing some super tight pants and they kept talking about his batch.

(15:59):
-I remember a Wayne's World episode that talked about a guy's unit in much the same way it sounds like the batch, but
-Well, he so Ronnie wears some very tight short shorts where you don't even have to use your imagination
To try and see what he's got in there
-Well, I was staring at his chest call me a weirdo if you will

(16:19):
But I just noticed I couldn't help but notice man that guy must do a lot of deadlifts with -oh, yeah
-He had an amazing physique with his arms and everything else
But I mean this guy's wearing outfits like that and then there's scenes where he's standing right next to some of the young
teenage
Female campers with like his his crotch at their eye level. -It was a different time

(16:42):
If you were physically fit you could get away with a lot of stuff in the 80s and that included walking around half-naked
There is a lot of that. -Yes -a lot of short shorts short tight shorts and crop tops
Yeah, there's a lot of male skin on display. -Yes, -which is kind of at odds with the prurient

(17:03):
Expectation of a movie about a co-ed summer camp where you would expect something like a female shower scene or what have you
-There is a shower scene. -There is a shower scene. -It's not what you would think. -No
There are women in bathing suits, but there's not really even other than the very beginning of the movie
There's not really like a lot of girls in bikinis

(17:25):
It's like one piece or it's little kids. I mean it this is more male skin than female
So it is a definite switch from the norm
-But as the kids are invading the camp the kitchen staff looks on and we get this horrifying exchange between two characters named
Artie and Ben. Artie, he's sitting there looking at all the campers invade

(17:46):
He says look at all that young fresh chicken where I come from. We call them baldies makes your mouth water
don't it? His
Companion in the kitchen Ben who's played by James Earl Jones's father. He's an artie
They're too young to even understand what's on your mind Artie replies Ben good, buddy
There ain't no such thing as being too young

(18:06):
You're just too old -and then he laughs and walks away -Ben laughs at this -and it's not even like an uncomfortable laugh
It's like he's really genuinely finding this humorous
-Yeah, no, I think anyone seen this scene can tell right away that this guy working at a summer camp for kids is a wildly shameless
Pedophile this is like Herbert from Family Guy levels of openness. Now you get this very disturbing exchange

(18:30):
It's like grim said he laughs like it's a familiar friendly jovial laugh like Oh Artie
You're crazy with the stuff that comes out of Artie's mouth. But this no this is these are red flags
This guy's waving with every word. He's like look at all that fresh chicken. It's disgusting. It's shameful
It's horrible. -It's very disturbing. -It's very disturbing
-So we started the very first not even five minutes into the movie

(18:55):
we have the death of a child and a parent leaving an orphan and then
What ten minutes in we're now at a pedophile looking at a ton of young children
Run off a bus i-nto his grasp that -this movie really sets the tone
Quick, -but Ricky and Angela come into the camp a bit slower than the rest of the screaming running kids

(19:19):
And they run into Ricky's friend Paul on the way Paul's a taller skinny blonde kid Ricky and Angela are both tan with dark hair
Ricky and Paul catch up a bit and Paul tells him that he's got to see Judy because apparently she had developed in the chestal
area in the previous year since their last time together at Camp Arawak
We learned that Ricky and Judy used to go steady last summer
Which which makes me wonder what the hell these kids are allowed to get up to in this camp

(19:41):
Anyway, we meet Judy and she doesn't give Ricky the time of day since she's developed and matured now
She only talks to older boys that gets me back to the age range because Judy looks like she's talking to 16 17 year olds
Who might as well be counselors and maybe they were counselors or there's a mix of ages from preteen teen and older team with counselors
In the young 20, you know, it's a bit jaring -but either way
I mean this camp some of them look like they're at least in their mid-20s

(20:06):
-Me and grim could run a summer camp better than this one's run
Alright, we're we just watched this movie. We just watched this movie and we can look at this campus here. Well, that's not right
That's for gosh sakes. They have a pedophile run in the kitchen. This is awful
I mean, it's that it looks so this place is a powder keg waiting to happen. Look at this. -It looked nice. -It looked nice
Yeah, sure, but -it was not run

(20:28):
well
but it looked nice -the kids all sleep in bunk cabins and Angela's bunking in the same cabinet as Judy and
Judy singles Angela out for abuse pretty much right away and since she's most developed is like the queen bee of her bunk the other
Girls follow suit the bunks counselor Meg even follow suit and treats Angela like crap from day one
-She did just kind of go and then sit on the bed and stare at her and not say anything didn't respond to sat and

(20:54):
Stared. -Yes, -so that is a bit awkward
-That is a bit awkward
But like I said, -the response was overblown
But -response was -it wasn't just like she had no reason to say something to her
It's like she just sat down and was just staring -a nicer person would have tried to make friends
But no instead it was like Angela staring at Judy and Judy just responds with Judy and Meg both respond with hmm

(21:19):
She must have got ourselves a real character
I think was one of the lines and things are not looking pleasant for Angela as far as you know
She's not gonna form any lasting deep friendships with anyone in this bunk that she's stuck in for the whole summer
Yeah, it is not looking promising
No, but the story picks up three days into camp as we skip ahead three days and Angela hasn't eaten anything since she got

(21:44):
To camp apparently and her bitch counselor Meg instantly goes to being a fed-up brat
And I'm finally Ronnie the head counselor with the tight shorts and the giant pecs takes Angela back to the kitchen where maybe they'll find
something that she'll eat. But the unfortunately Ronnie with the tight pants and the giant
packs leaves angela in the care of Artie the pedophile who proceeds to take her to the
walk-in freezer and starts to unbuckle his pants. Ricky shows up and catches the perv

(22:09):
so Artie shoves ricky against the shelf and says "you didn't see nothing! you didn't
see nothing! See!" Well as luck would have it Ricky shows up and they escape unmolested
at this point by Artie the shameless pedo. but the story isn't over and Artie's come
up and survive swiftly and brutally. He's standing on a chair. -and comically -Yes, he's standing over
a chair leaning over a gigantic pot of boiling water that he's preparing to fix corn on the

(22:31):
cabin. -Yeah, so this pot, -this was like a four, five foot tall pot. -This, this pot easily
is taller than most of the campers. -Yes, -it would take like five hours, you would have
to start that pot of water to boil first thing in the morning, just you'd have it boiled
by dinner time. -It was a gigantic tall cylinder of steel. -And to make corn in it, the corn at the

(22:53):
bottom is going to be way overcooked. -Well, I think Artie was more concerned with being a pedophile at
the camp than he was with cooking corn evenly, sir. I don't think he was a very good cook. -Have you
ever tried to lift a full five gallon bucket of water? -Yes. -Yeah, that pot, how in the fuck did

(23:14):
did that even get up on the stove? It did not have big
handles. It had just looked like the same size handle as a
regular stockpot. So to try and lift something that big with
that much water in it. That had to have been at least a two
person job. -Yes, probably. And the kids at a camp are eating
what the camp fixes. And -well, that's why Rick ended up getting

(23:35):
sick one night. -Yeah, well, maybe Ben's not that great a
coach either. -Well, after this, would you want to go back in
that kitchen? -No. Either way, Artie is bent over this pot.
The music gets tense and we get some POV shots of someone approaching him silently.
Someone who pushes him so he loses his balance on the chair.
He has to hold on for dear life to a shelf on the wall as this pot is under him steaming up into his face.

(23:59):
Artie tries to reason with the kid but it's to no avail.
They tug the chair out from under him and he falls to the floor bringing the giant pot of boiling water down on top of himself.
He screams and we get a money shot of some pretty solid makeup effects on his face and as his face and hands blister terribly.
And based on the makeup...
-you'd see the blisters rise and fall and just the whole face kind of pulse.

(24:22):
-Mmm.
Based on the makeup effects though, it looks like they held back.
He has extensive second-degree burns, but not an ultra-gory third-degree.
And his eyes don't look damaged.
So, Pedo got off light.
-I don't know.
If that's light, damn.
-Yeah.
Well, based on, um, you know what happens to pedophiles in prison?
-ugh, still.
-Yes, but who is the killer with a pedo like Artie it could be a lot of people

(24:42):
We know it's a kid though based on the low point of view and already saying he was a kid
We don't know who though it happened right after he tried to molest Angela though
So reason is pointing to Ricky since he's sworn to protect his cousin to his mother Aunt Martha still
Maybe already attached a lot of kids in the camp. So who knows at this point could have been a lot of people
-Yeah, it could have been somebody from the day before -we cut. Well, there weren't any well, yeah

(25:04):
-Yeah, because this isn't the first day of camp
-Nope. We cut to a doctor there with some paramedics and the doc talks about how he doesn't have a strong enough
Sedative to mask the pain that the man must be in. Yeah some world-class acting by this doctor too. -Yeah
-Wow. -He really sells it. Mel the camp owner is really quick to start making the whole incident disappear as fast as possible
He doesn't want any campers learning about it

(25:25):
And he tells Ben the cook that he can have Artie's job and an extra 50 bucks a week
But he has to keep his mouth shut about Artie and Ben agrees
but that's no surprise because Ben was clearly turning a blind eye to a lot of things already.
-Yeah, an extra $50 a week for him and an extra $15 a week each for the three other kitchen workers.
-But assumingly Angela eats because she doesn't seem to experience any graphic

(25:48):
weight loss throughout the movie which seems to portray several weeks of camp life.
We move on to Ricky playing a gross trick on the nerdy Mozart involving making him
do a sit-up while wearing a blindfold so that Mozart sits up face first into another boy's ass.
-Mind over matter.
-Mind Over Matter is the name of the trick.
-That's one of the things with this movie. Some of the scenes really kind of hold a little long.
-Yeah, I could have done with a little less softball to be honest.

(26:11):
-Yeah
-But we then get to watch, speaking of softball, we then get to watch a montage of scenes from a softball game played between Ricky's Buck 19 crew and a rival bunk led by older counselor Bill.
At this point it stops being a horror movie and becomes a camp movie with these kids trash talking each other and the trash talk is pretty far out.
When Bill comes out to bat Ricky's playing shortstop and he says to the pitcher Gene aka Geno

(26:33):
No problem Geno this guy blows dead dogs. Just lay it in there Bill replies eat shit and die
Ricky -eat shit and live bill -eat shit and live bill names -a great comeback
-Yeah, and they apparently have the cash to bet five bucks a man on these games ending too
So the kids are pretty flushed at this camp, but it's it's a pretty decent game. -Yeah, there's some nice plays

(26:55):
It's just we see okay. Here's the game going a little bit and then you'd fade out and the next part fades in you're thinking
Okay, that's in the softball scene. Oh, no, that's just the end of an inning
-Yeah, -and then we see another bunch of plays and it's like really are we gonna just watch this whole game?
-I think it was just like I think they skipped like the first five or six innings and then it was like

(27:16):
-Yeah when they came in it was talking about like what's the score now?
-And it's a pretty decent game where they have the bullied Mozart kid who got the mind over matter trick played on him
He's center field
He pulls himself away from a handheld calculator
Boxing game to catch a fly ball, which seems to impress his bunk mates. -It was a struggle of a catch
-Yeah, he pulled it off though. So good. You Mozart good for you. -He came in clutch

(27:39):
-Yeah, he was good in the clutch the night the night after the game
We get to see a few goons named Kenny and Mike giving Angela a hard time in the rec hall
She sets there quietly. -Why are you so fucked up?
-She sits they're quietly and takes it while they say all manner of bullying bullshit
And then Ricky arrives and he just fights both of them he just uh...
He doesn't care says get away from my cousin his buddy Paul jumps in and a little rumble goes on

(28:03):
-Yeah
The camp counselors and the the owner guy are all just standing there watching not doing anything about this
-No one jumps in to break it up immediately or anything the kids fight until Gene the head of buck 19 steps in and says
stop it but even he lets it go for a few rounds uh Paul Ricky's friend he stays around to talk
to Angela though and he just talks to her uh he's telling her stories about him and Ricky in previous

(28:27):
years of the camp when it's time for him to go he says bye and Angela surprises everyone by
speaking her first line of dialogue in the whole movie saying good night -and if you look at her
the whole time up to this point she always just has this blank stare -but when she's talking to
Paul, like when Paul's talking to her, she actually, she's paying attention and nodding.

(28:48):
-Yeah. Her look changes, her facial expressions changes. She starts to smile. It's the first
time you see something other than that blank stare and Judy is not happy.
-No, Judy is flirting with some older guys and she comes over. I don't think she comes
over. She just stares and just sneers and Angela.
-Yeah. And I don't know if she was flirting so much as she was just laying there between

(29:10):
them because they didn't seem to care that she was there. They were just talking to each
each other and she didn't say anything she just stared evilly at Angela
apparently Judy was slutting it up trying to get attention when Angela got some
attention from a boy and that really pissed her off -well yeah she actually
talked to somebody and like she hasn't said anything to anybody else up to this

(29:32):
point and that was one of the things that Judy and Meg always yelled about
it's like she doesn't answer 'em -mm-hmm the Paul's ecstatic and says good night
back at her again enthusiastically and the music swells when she speaks and it's
sweet kind of moment. -And she even smiles after he walks away because cuts back to her
and she's sitting there with a smile on her face. -But the sweet no moment sweet moment
is not to last those a lot of the older campers are trying to get some of the older girls

(29:55):
to skinny dip with them but none of them are going for it. And others are smoking weed
behind some bleachers and getting giggly as fuck. Ronnie from the fight with Ricky, he
manages to get a girl in a canoe before acting really, really mature and he just tips it
over. -Yeah, and the girl is she kind of was kind of she was put in a weird spot because the guys
went skinny dipping. He tried to get somebody to go on the canoe. They wouldn't go in the canoe.

(30:20):
And they said that, yeah, she's coming down. She'll go out there with you. So she was kind of just
volunteered to go in on this canoe ride by people that weren't even around her at the time.
-Yeah, she must be very loved by those friends of hers. Ronnie, he gives you some line about
water snakes and snapping turtles beforehand to get her scared but then he just tipped them over
both over into the walk and she swims off and he screws around under the overturned canoe to hear

(30:44):
his own echo he's a goofball at this point and he's under the canoe and someone pops up under
and we get the bet we get a glimpse of the back of their head we see longish dark hair and uh
-yeah longish dark hair that does look like it is no much no longer than maybe shoulder length -yeah
But this person just grabs Ronnie by his head and drowns him right then and there under the canoe.

(31:08):
-And it's not like a long drawn out drowning scene.
It's that he gets pushed under it holds air for a second and then cuts to the next scene.
So so far the worst we've seen is the burns.
-Yeah. Now he's found under the canoe after it washes to shore the next morning by a counselor
who's pissed off at what a messy area is. We find out that there were water snakes in the river

(31:28):
because we see one slithering out of Ronnie's corpse's face.
-Yeah, and we see the damage that the turtles did to his face as well.
Yeah, so he was not really lying that much about the stuff that was in that lake.
The counselor freaks out and blows his whistle for help and the cops arrive and Mel is there to smooth it over again.
This had to be an accident, nothing anyone could do, he was in the water after hours, it's awful, but he has to go and call the kids' parents.

(31:54):
Ron, the head counselor with the tight pants and the giant pecs is talking to the cop and says it's weird because he remembers Ronnie as being a pretty good swimmer.
So who is the killer? So far it's two people who've fucked with Angela.
So it's got to be Ricky who's the victims. The victims are two people who fucked with Angela.
Already tried to molest her and Ronnie was screwing with her in the in the rec hall.

(32:15):
-Well, I mean it's still possible that it's someone else but it's starting to really point to him.
-Yeah, we get a glimpse of the back of the killer's head and they have dark hair. Ricky seems like the best bet.
Maybe he's a little psycho, his mom is Aunt Martha, the doctor who gives him his physicals.
It also, it's looking like Ricky protecting his cousin and taking it way too far.
-He does have a bit of a temper issue.

(32:35):
-He does. He gets mad and starts fights, which I'll say one thing for the kid, he's brave.
He doesn't care how many of them there are.
-Well, it also indicates that he's had to do this for a while.
Probably we got to the girls of Angeles bunk playing volleyball and Angela's setting the game out when Paul from last night comes over and chats her up. He asked her to go to the movie with him and she jokes. Don't we all have to go? And he says, Yeah, but I meant like we go together and she laughs. It's a cute moment.

(33:02):
She's sitting watching them play volleyball. -Yeah, -and still has that same just blank stare. But when he shows up, as soon as he shows up, she's all smiles. And the look is she's definitely happy. -Yeah.
So again, Felissa Rose portraying amazing range, even as a very young actress,
-she's all happy and everything about him asking her to the movie and everything.

(33:24):
And she has somebody that likes her and is nice to her instead of being mean.
And Judy sees this and it's like, well, why did, why does she have,
why does she get to talk to the boys and we have to play volleyball? -Yeah.
-So Meg's like, well, I'll take care of it. -Yeah. -Goes to,
goes over there and it's like, well, don't you have somewhere to be?
He gets up and leaves and as soon as he gets up and leaves,

(33:46):
her face goes right back to that blank stare looking at Meg.
-Right. Yes.
Because Meg is not an engaging or positive influence in her life.
I think we both said Angela was a special needs kid
who was clearly not getting her special needs addressed by the staff
or the other kids in the camp.
-Yeah, she clearly had some kind of an issue.
-Yeah.
-But at the same time,

(34:08):
She also was severely traumatized as a young child.
So yeah, okay, there's gonna be some issues.
And then you're stuck with an aunt like that.
It's a miracle she can talk at all.
- After Judy the bitch whines
and breaks up the Paul and Angela talk,
as Grim said, they just,
Angela just goes right back to being the blank face

(34:29):
little person that she is and completely turns off again.
The movie cuts to the movie getting out
and it shows them coming out of the rec hall,
uh, hand in hand.
And Paul offers to walk Angela back to her cabin,
and, uh, she lets him, Paul and Angela, go back to her bunk,
and she, uh, allows Paul to kiss her.

(34:50):
She starts rather surprised and pushes him away,
but then he has to kiss her again.
- Well, they get to the bunk,
and he continues, like, to take her further
than just the door.
it's like, "Well, where are we going?"
And he's like, "I wanna show you something."
- Yeah.
- So they go around to the side of the cabin,
And they're just standing there like they're going to chat or whatever and he quickly just leans in and gives her just this weird awkward peck on the lips.

(35:14):
-Which she does not respond particularly well to. -No she kind of backs away and it's like she's going to leave and he asks for another.
-And she allows him to have another.
-Yeah.
And then says she's got to go and heads back inside.
It's a cute little scene where Angela seems to be opening up.
Paul seems to be doing the job to get her to come out of her shell a little bit.

(35:35):
And he seems relatively pleased.
- And he seems like a nice kid.
Paul just seems like maybe he could be a good match
for Angela because he's patient
and he takes his time talking to her
and she seems to like his company.
It's just kind of a nice thing between them at that point.
- And then Judy shows up.
- Well, Judy is one of those total pieces of crap
who can pretty much ruin any happy moment

(35:57):
just by being there.
At least that's the guesstimation I get of her. -Yeah
-But then we cut to Bunk19 playing another trick
on their little...
-Mozart.
-Mozart, yes.
And this time it's the old shaving cream in the hand
and feather on the nose thing.
Only instead of a feather they use a dirty sock.
But we get a little extra physical comedy out of this one

(36:17):
when Mozart gets up and says "You bastards!"
And he pulls a knife from somewhere near his bunk
and proceeds to chase Ricky around the room with it.
And it's a sharp looking little hunting knife.
-Yeah, it's a legit hunting knife.
-Yeah.
And he's chasing Ricky across the different bunks with it
with shaving cream all over his face but it doesn't look like he I didn't get the

(36:37):
impression that Mozart was actually gonna cut the kid you know I don't know
I didn't get any idea that Mozart was the was the killer or anything but Gino
the camp counselor for bunk 19 comes in and he sees the knife and he confiscates
it he says you're getting this back at the end of the summer if you're lucky
they peacefully let the knife be taken but it picks up the next day and it is
swim day for their respective bunks we first see Angela sitting on a bench as

(37:03):
the other kids swim and Paul comes over with a towel and he's sitting next to her and she lights up and talks to him again.
And it's nice.
-Was this the time when he came up behind her and covered her eyes and said "guess who"?
-I believe it was.
-And she guessed the wrong name the first time and then went way off and picked Burt Reynolds.

(37:23):
-Right. I believe that was the time unless you're just screwing with me to test my memory.
-Well, there's two different times when she's sitting on that bench, and I tend to get them confused quite often.
So this is the Meg freakout.
-Yes.
-Okay.
Meg comes over and freaks the fuck out all over Angela.
And just...
-All because she won't answer.

(37:44):
Yeah, because Angela won't answer and Meg is headed up to here with it.
Because at this point Meg is kind of understandably frustrated that, you know, like,
maybe she would be nicer if Angela would just talk to her a little bit.
At least that's kind of like what the...
There's an exasperated note there. - But maybe she'd talk to her a little bit if she was nicer.
Yeah. Meg is a complete incompetent as far as a camp counselor goes.

(38:06):
And she just starts screaming at Angela and says, "Just answer! Just say something!"
Or something like that. - Yeah, she starts screaming in her face and grabs her and starts shaking her.
-Yeah. Finally, Ron, with the tight pants and the big chest comes over.
-Mr. Batch comes. - yes, he comes and calms it down.
Uh, but, uh, then we cut back to Angela in her bunk with Judy and Judy turns up the heat on Angela because Angela got Meg in trouble.

(38:31):
Even though Angela didn't do anything of the sort to get Meg in trouble, Meg got herself in trouble.
-Is this the time when Angela's just sitting there on her bed and Judy comes out of the shower?
-I believe it is. Well, no, Judy, well, I remember Judy, I don't think she'd come out of the shower. She was there.
-She had, she had just come out of the shower and had her robe on, was drying her hair.

(38:52):
-Yeah, but we get some of Judy's prime insults in the movie.
She talks about how, oh yeah, it must have been that time because she mentions that Angela never showers when the rest of them do.
And she talks about how she's a carpenter's dream, flat as a board and in need of a screw is the final.

(39:13):
-Carpenter's dream, flat as a board and need a screw.
-There's the funny side of the kids is trash talk and then there's the disturbing side of the kids is trash talk
Which is a personified by Judy and her psychological torment of Angela
Judy is actually stopped by the co-counselor of their bunk a girl named Suzy who slaps Judy in the face at that point

(39:33):
-Yeah, she's really other than mr. Batch. She's really the only counselor that's nice to her
-Yes, she Suzy is kind of like the flip side of like Meg is a hot-headed bitch
Whereas Susie is kind of a caring actually gives a shit person
-Yeah -as far as dealing with the kids in her in her bunk
Angela is a at least a little bit affected by Judy's trash talk because she gets up and says I'm going for a walk

(39:59):
Or she just leaves. I don't think she said I'm going for a walk. Did she say I'm going for a walk
-Oh, maybe she did say to Susie. She was gonna go see Ricky
-So she's on her way to see Ricky bill and his cohorts are up on their roof with water balloons
And they throw one right at Angela and smack her in the chest yeah
-And as Angela's walking that direction you see Mel in the background -you do

(40:22):
-He's right there, and he even says he saw the whole thing -yes
He does -so he's standing there watching as a bunch of teenage
Campers at a camp he's in charge of are running around throwing water balloons on the roof
-From the roof. -And he says nothing he does not
-Oh no. They were throwing them at each other on the roof for a while and the roofs all wet and slippery.

(40:44):
And he says nothing as they're doing that.
And then finally comes over after they throw one at Angela and Ricky comes over and starts swearing up a storm at him.
- I think Mel was just doing what power figures do when they see bullying occur.
They, he just steps back and waits for somebody to fight back and then he can go in and blame the person who fought back for escalating it.

(41:06):
And that's what Ricky does when he sees them throw a water balloon at Angela.
He immediately runs over the roof and challenges everyone on the roof to come down and fight him.
But Angela is there startled and wet and Mel comes over and breaks it up with Ricky and the rival bunk.
-Yeah, he says something about "Yeah, I saw the whole thing. You could have put her eye out."

(41:27):
-Yes, Mel says "You know how those water balloons are dangerous. You could have put her eye out with one of those things."
-I guess maybe if you hit her just right and then the rubber snapped in just the right way that it hit her eye.
But that seems a bit extreme for a water balloon reaction.
-Yeah, and he could have said something before Ricky had to intervene.
But Billy, one of the bullies on the roof who threw the balloon, he winds up being the next victim in our little slasher film.

(41:54):
Because he is going to the bathroom before a game that they're playing against the counselors.
So that says to me, Ricky is not a count or I'm sorry, Bill, his name is Bill, it says
to me Billy is not a counselor, even though he looks like he's old enough to be one.
He goes into the bathroom stall to do a number two.
-Yeah, I think he says he has to take a wicked dump.

(42:15):
-Bill is taking a dump in one of the stalls when we get the killer POV again, and somebody
slides a broom handle between the handles of the handle of his stall door in this and
the stall door of the next of the next
-yes through the handles of the two
stalls -they lock him inside the stall
silently so he doesn't know he's locked
in and he's reading a magazine in there

(42:36):
with his shorts down around his ankles
but this time the killer takes it up a
notch this time this does not look like
an accident this time there's not going
to be any way Mel can talk his way out
of this because the hunting knife that
Mozart was brandishing appears over
Billy's head in the screen window of the
the stall, cuts open the screen and we hear Billy saying on the toilet, "Can't you guys

(43:00):
just leave me alone? Who's back there? What's going on?" There is no answer. The only answer
comes in the form of a beehive on a stick being shoved through a hole in the screen
up over his head.
-With absolutely no bees in it.
-With absolutely no bees in it. So I assume they found a dead beehive and used it in the
movie?
-Or they made one. But there was no bees in that thing.
-No. But there was the sound effect of bees.

(43:22):
-Yeah, yeah, there was buzzing but there was no bees.
-There were no visible bees on screen.
But I think we're meant to assume there are bees because the hive shakes and the buzzing increases and Billy just freaks out more.
-Wouldn't you?
He begged for the hive to be taken away. He tries to get out of the stall.
The hive sort of shakes on its stick as if it's being waved around and then just unceremoniously dropped into the stall with him.

(43:46):
We hear him scream and the next thing we see is his body covered in bees
or flies as it were.
Looked more like flies than bees.
-Question one.
Why didn't he crawl under the door?
-Well, I think the reason he wouldn't have crawled under the door
is because after the bee hive was dropped
into the stall it would have landed on the floor

(44:08):
and he would have tried to get away from the bee hive
and getting on the floor
-He could have done that before it was dropped though.
-He could have done that before it was dropped, but he was not a very smart person.
-Once he realized that he couldn't get out, he could have crawled under.
Like once he realized the door was blocked or locked or something, he could have crawled under.
-My question would be, why didn't he crawl out the window at whoever was waving the beehive at him?

(44:32):
-Well, because then he probably would have had to try and climb up onto the toilet and
jump up to the window to get out.
-Well, he looked like a pretty physically fit person.
-I would say going underneath the door would be a lot easier and I don't know maybe
Slam against the door maybe try and kick it open or something rather than just shaking it because once he fell

(44:55):
Against it dead that broom handle snapped like a twig
-It was not a very well thought-out kill scene -no and then the makeup they used raspberries for his welts that just for some reason
were
huge in a matter of minutes.
-I thought the dead body looked pretty great though.
-Oh yeah, it looked good, but once you realize that it's a bunch of raspberries stuck to the

(45:18):
plastic arm and see how messed up the body is in that quick a time, it's like,
it looks good, but it looks like it's been there for way longer.
=They went for the gore, Grim, and I will always applaud that, going for the gore.
They made it look as awful as they could.
-Oh yeah, I get that.
-But this time the killer didn't leave any notion that this was an accident.

(45:41):
The drowning of Ronnie could have been an accident.
Artie falling into his pot of boiling corn cob water could have been an accident.
This time there's a dead body in a locked bathroom stall
with a hole in the window and a beehive on the floor.
-Well yeah, but the stall's not locked anymore.
And who's to say that after dropping the hive in and he stung to death,

(46:02):
the killer couldn't have come in and got the pieces of the broom handle.
-We didn't see that on screen.
-No, we didn't.
-We did not.
-Yeah, it could have easily just been a prank gone wrong.
-Could have been a prank gone wrong, but anyway,
the killer has announced their presence,
and the kids start to leave.
-Yeah, so far you have one guy that very easily could have been,

(46:24):
he just had an accident on the job and dumped a gigantic pot of water on himself.
-That's murder one, Artie.
-Well, and then it's not even a murder.
He's still alive.
So, so far all we all we have is that the one that is oh, it's just an accident out on the canoe
-Ronnie -and
This -billy via beehive -and now oh everybody's leaving and it's like what you're you've been keeping it silent from everybody

(46:52):
Nobody really knows anything's going on yet. And yet a ton of people are leaving? -This time
We don't get a mel post-mortem scene. We get mel just falling to pieces saying that's it. I'm done. I'm done
This camp is toast. I'm never gonna get any kids. No, they're never gonna send any kids here again
And he's talking to Ron and Ron is like we should at least finish out this season
Mel we need to at least finish out the season for the kids that are left now

(47:15):
-Is it at this point that they're talking about consolidating the cabins or is that later? -They do?
-So if they're talking about consolidating the cabins at this point
That means a bunch of kids have already left and that was after one accident
in the kitchen that a cook had an accident in the kitchen wouldn't necessarily be a reason to pick
your kids up from camp. But then when the canoe drowning, that might be a yeah, I can see some

(47:39):
parents be like, look, if they're not responsible enough to keep a kid from going out on a canoe in
the middle of the night and having an accident, then I might want to get my kids home. But it's
like, there's really only been the one thing so far. And they've already had enough kids where
I think he says something like there's only like 25 kids left. -The camp is now consolidating.
-Luckily for some people.

(48:00):
-Luckily.
-Well, or I guess unluckily for some people.
-Unfortunately, it would have been nice if Angela should have been moved to a different bunk.
Well, yeah, but her cabin was already full, so I don't know why they would have consolidated by taking people out of a full one.
-Well, it would have been nice for Angela in any case.
-Well, yeah.
-Just like, you know, okay, well, you haven't really been a good fit over there in that bunk, so let's move you over here with these ones and

(48:25):
Maybe it'll give you a fresh start.
- Yeah, to where, because all the kids picked on her.
- Pretty much.
But the camp is going through some changes
and Angela and Paul meet at night
and they play on the beach and they kiss.
While all these murders are going on,
Angela is still just a kid,
just opening up to this boy she likes.
They have a nice little time there on the beach.
- Yeah, and it's a nice, sweet little scene

(48:46):
with the music is kind of a from here to eternity type.
- Yeah.
- And they're chasing each other around the beach
and she goes to give him a kiss and puts her leg behind his and pushes him back to trip him.
-Yeah, and then she runs -and then runs off and he chases her and tackles her and they're on the they're laying on the sand kissing.

(49:07):
-And Angela flashes back to memory from her childhood.
-Well, it's not until he starts to try and unbutton her shirt that she gets that flash.
And then at the same time, she's like telling him no, I'm not ready or I don't want to or something like that.
And he said, well, I'm not doing anything, but he continues to do everything except for he's not actively trying to unbutton her shirt now.

(49:29):
-Yeah.
-But she immediately goes back to that just blank, I'm in another world stare.
She went from enjoying herself to now this has happened. She's turned off again.
She's in another world.
-Paul is a little fast for Angela's taste.
And she flashes back to this memory she has apparently, well, we find out who that guy on the beach was.

(49:50):
-Well, we don't necessarily find out who he was.
Well, we don't find out his name, but we find out he had a relationship.
We see Angela and her little brother Peter from the opening of the boat crash scene.
And they are standing in the doorway giggling while they look at two men sleeping in the same bed together.
-Yeah, and it's not just two men sleeping in the same bed together.

(50:11):
It's two men in the same bed together making out.
-Okay, yes, I forgot that part.
Angela and Peter were giggling, but it gets stranger from there.
-Yeah, really strange.
-It gets strange because we cut to Angela remembering something that doesn't look real.
It looks like her sitting on the bed with her brother Peter and he's pointing at her.

(50:34):
-Well, the camera also spins around the bed and as it spins, his finger gets closer and closer,
but we never get any explanation.
He never actually touches her.
It's just he's pointing.
-And they never say anything.
-Yeah, it's a really weird scene.
-It's a weird scene and it culminates in Angela just getting up out from under Paul and saying, "Stop."

(50:56):
I believe.
She gets up and runs away.
Well, the next day we see the counselors are talking to all the kids that are left.
They decide to play capture the flag.
And they explain the game like capture the flag to all these kids.
-Yeah, they don't just explain it.
They go through the whole, "This is what we're going to do.
Some are having white flags, some will have blue flags.
We do this, we do..."
It's like, do we really need this much time dedicated to how we're playing capture the flag?

(51:21):
-Yes, we do.
Because that way we'll understand when Ricky comes up with a plan to get the flag.
-Yeah.
But when you're watching them play, it's like the flags are on either end of a very small field and it's just a bunch of people really just running in a circle in between the flags.
-Pretty much.
-And then him saying "I've got a plan" to Angela and it's like "We'll sneak through the woods and go around."

(51:46):
Why the fuck is nobody else trying to do anything like this?
Your only thought is let's run in a circle in the middle?
-Hey, no skipping ahead.
-I didn't realize I had skipped ahead.
-Yes, you did. Because prior to playing the game Capture the Flag, Paul approaches Angela and tries to tell her like
Angela I'm sorry. I didn't mean to you know Angela

(52:07):
Can we just talk and he tries to get back in her good graces?
But she is quiet with him again, and she walks away to go and sit down or join the game
I don't recall and Paul looks forelorn. Angela won't talk to him, but Judy sure will Judy walks right up and starts
Sorry, oh yeah. I'm sorry Paul. That's just too bad all these all this crap

(52:28):
She's spewing in Paul's ear so suddenly she she gets the attention
she wants and she's going after the guy that Angela liked of all things then and there.
-Yeah and it's clear that she's only doing it to get to Angela.
-To get to stick it to Angela.
-Yeah to get to get um to piss her off.
-Yeah Paul doesn't see that though.
-No.
-As Ricky convinces Angela to come with him and help him do this capture the flag coup

(52:53):
plan they're walking through the woods and Ricky stumbles upon Paul kissing Judy.
-And so does Angela.
-Angela sees it as well and Angela runs off and Paul runs off after her.
Ricky goes up to Judy and says, you know, you're a real scumbag arch and she goes,
you know, fuck you.
-Yeah. And then it holds on her and she starts crying. -Judy starts crying? -Yes.

(53:14):
When you earlier,
when you were talking about like Meg having no redeeming qualities and I said,
Judy, there is one point,
this is the one point when she cracks and they're just like,
there's something still there.
-Oh, well, unfortunately,
We don't get to see much of that.
-Yeah, that doesn't last long.
-Now, uh, then we cut back to a swimming scene where, uh, Angela is sitting by

(53:38):
herself again, and, uh, -this is the two I get mixed up. -Yeah, this is the second of the two. -Yeah, this is the second of them.
-Now, uh, she's sitting by herself and, uh, I think she blows off Paul because Paul
comes up to her and talks and he just leaves, right?
I think he's sitting there with her trying to talk to her when Judy walks up again.
-Yeah.
He's trying to make up with Angela and apologizing.

(54:00):
-And then Judy walks up and says,
"I can't believe you're still talking to her.
You said she was a prude," or something like that.
We know this is true based on the dirty look
that Paul gives Judy.
She just blabbed something
that he definitely did not want Angela to hear.
-Yeah, he gets pissed, leaves.
And then Judy starts in on Angela about not swimming.
-About not swimming.

(54:21):
And she strongly suggests that Angela should go swimming.
But meanwhile, Ricky is approaching the swimming area when he's accosted by Mel because Mel has started to put the pieces together in his head.
And he is pretty much convinced that Ricky is behind all the bad goings on that have plagued the camp in the recent weeks.

(54:43):
Yeah, he's pretty set on that.
-He set on it.
Things escalate in two fronts at this point, or on two fronts, because Judy picks on Angela to get in the water,
and then she even enlists Meg to pick Angela up and throw her in the water.
-Yeah.
At which point?
-When they were arguing, she ended up walking away and going down to the shoreline and talking to Meg, and they come back.

(55:07):
Meg yells at Angela a bit, and then picks her up and throws her over her shoulder, and is carrying her down the beach and onto the dock.
-Yeah.
Ricky sees this and is trying to get away but then Mel grabs him and things escalate there where Mel
is holding on to Ricky and demanding that he admit something. -Yeah and Ricky's trying to get away
because he sees what's going on. All the other campers see what's going on. The other counselors

(55:32):
see what's going on. The lifeguard has to see what's going on. Nobody says a word. -Exactly.
Mel is going at Ricky and Angela sinks like a stone until she doggy paddles to the surface
flailing. -well, I don't know if it necessarily, I don't know if it shows her sink
-She goes right under the water. -As she's being carried she's yelling about not being able to swim -yes

(55:53):
-And then she's thrown in and obviously when you're thrown in you're going to go down a bit anyway
but she comes back up fairly quick and
struggles towards the dock as Ricky's managed to break free from Mel now and
Someone does find the I think one of the lifeguards or somebody does finally come over to help get her out of the water
-Yeah, and then Ricky walks her to the bench where she was sitting peacefully before now

(56:18):
-But on the way there some kids throw kids are throwing sand and shit at her
So like I said, none of the kids are nice to her. -No one except Ricky and Paul
Yeah, -and the lifeguard who ran to assist like walks by Megan says, you know, you're a real piece of work Meg. -Well and
Mr. Batch and what Suzy -Ron his name is Ron -they're, but again, they're not, they're not kids

(56:41):
Oh, they get their nice to her. Yes. -Yeah, -we get a scene where Ron is assigning duties to the counselors with the kids
Who are left and everybody a lot of people get the night off including Meg even though she was a complete bitch that day
She should have a lot more days off like the rest of the summer
-But Ron is assigning duties and the person who draws the short straw is a guy named Eddie who is told he has to take

(57:04):
Bunch of the younger kids out camping. It sounds like quite the chore
He's gonna have to spend his entire night in the woods with a bunch of very young kids who are going to need
Tending to in the dark so it's not going to be a pleasant night for him
-No, I wonder whether it had where they went because they had to take a car to get there
-They did and not only that they didn't bring any tents or sleeping bags

(57:26):
They just brought blankets and -they had sleeping bags. -It looked like blankets to me
-Well, they had they showed the kids in sleeping bags. -I think they showed them in blankets. Maybe I'm wrong. -Yeah, I think you're wrong
Yeah, the kids were in sleeping bags, -but there were no tents -no, but when they show them later
It's like they're trying to sleep and the kids are in sleeping bags

(57:47):
-Maybe two of the kids wake up and say they want to go back. Yeah in Eddie
Yeah, one wants to go back and the others like well, yeah, so do I but yeah
the one was too cold -Eddie like says go back to sleep and they're like, oh we want to go
-I'm cold I want to go back
So he gets up and takes them away -and leaves the rest of the kid there sleeping -and
unfortunately, we get the killer POV shot as it as the killer walks towards this camp sleeping children and the camera falls on the

(58:15):
Hatchet -and then cuts away to the camp. -It cuts away to the camp where Paul and Angela are talking outside the rec hall
-Well, I think -oh wait
No
-This is all after we've also had Meg go up to Mel and ask him about that dinner
that she or what about that or do you remember that dinner you promised me or something like that?

(58:37):
-Yeah, -and he's like, yeah
-How's 9:00or 9:30 sound -and she's like, okay sure and she's like she walks away smiling and all giddy
Mel and at least in his 50s, we actually still don't know how old she is
I don't either -and it's at this point that it's like, okay

(58:57):
There is something going on here and as she walks away. He even has a look like damn
I might have a chance of getting some of that -mm-hmm unfortunately
He does not have a chance of getting some of that because Meg goes to shower before her
Perspective date with Mel and we get that shower scene that we were talking about earlier
-She's she goes to shower, but she has to go to a different cabin luckily

(59:20):
They've consolidated cabins meaning that there's an empty cabin next door -mm-hmm, -but she has to go over there because
there's a long line for the shower in her cabin and she has to get ready
because she has a date -date with -but she won't tell anybody who her date is with
but as she's showering she's leaning up against the wall of the shower -well we

(59:40):
also get in a nice little homage to psycho here too with the shadow and the
knife -yes it's the shadow the knife in the -and he says that he he wanted to do
a nice little homage to Psycho,
but at the same time, he wanted to make it different.
And you see the shadow and the knife
and you're automatically thinking,

(01:00:01):
oh yeah, it's gonna go for the shower curtain.
But instead, she just happens to lean against
the back wall of this metal shower stall
at just the right time to have the knife
plunge through the metal and into her spine.
- And then cut a pretty good way down.
- Yeah, and it cuts back and forth
between the knife cutting down the metal

(01:00:24):
and blood coming through the cut
to her making some very interesting faces.
- Well, when your spine's being destroyed,
you'll probably make some odd faces.
- Yeah, these didn't look like she was getting
her spine sliced.
This looked more like somebody kept
stomping on her foot. - Sex?
Oh, it didn't look like sex, though.

(01:00:44):
- I don't know how you do it, but--
- Well, I don't stop at people's feet.
I can tell you that. - Yeah.
-Well, I suppose she probably should have had more gasping and and maybe choking involved rather than the ow
ow ow face, I don't know. -Yeah, it just would cut to her and she's just got this kind of half-pained
Look as she turns her head to one side and then turns it to the other side and it's that's all it is

(01:01:09):
It's like oh as she turns to the right and then oh as she turns to the left
Really at least try the acting in this movie is not the greatest
--It's hit or miss but Felicia Rose does a great job Ricky does a great job
I think Ron the counselor does fine Gino does great Mel pulls up puts in a solid job Meg
Despite her poor death scene was a did fine as the Wicked Witch of the West. -Oh, yeah

(01:01:32):
She she was a good bitch not a good die-er, but a good bitch. -Yeah
We're in the tightly paced climax of the film and we're gonna try to keep it straight forward
-Yeah, we forward you know how it is it it goes eight years then three days and then you start getting into hours
And that's when you know you're getting close to the end when you start getting smaller timeframes
-The killer cleans off the knife in the shower -very poorly -before they reach in and turn the turn the shower off and we see

(01:01:59):
Again, it's that honey knife that Mozart brought to camp
But that's the end of Meg and then we cut to Paul and Angela talking outside the rec hall and they make up a little
Judy walks by and calls them kids and that's when we get to the Eddie Eddie taking all those kids camping and
He shows up at the camp with the kids and says all right you kids set up set up your sleeping bags if they were

(01:02:21):
Sleeping bags. I'm gonna go cut some firewood one of the kids says can I come clearly an
Enthusiastic camper and he's what are you my shadow anyway?
-So what I think I'll do is I will find the scene where it shows
The kids when they're talking about wanting to go back because that's really the only spot that you have a good

(01:02:41):
view of what the kids are sleeping in. I'll take a screenshot of that and I'll throw it on Twitter and you can decide for
yourself. -I'll try. -Is it sleeping bags or is it blankets? -Paul and Angela make up a little and I think she tells him to
meet her at the beach. Judy calls them both kids.
We see Eddie taking the kids out, taking the actual kids out camping and then that's when we get the killer POV on the

(01:03:03):
hatchet. And then we get, we cut to the rec hall where Mel is looking for Meg. We cut back to
Meg's cabin where Judy is in there with a guy named Mike and they're making out on Judy's bed.
And she says, "Why do you have to kiss so wet?" He says sorry. -And then she just goes right back to it.
Yeah, but that's when Mel knocks on the door and she hides Mike under the bed and Mel asks her if Meg has been by.

(01:03:29):
Judy says, "Oh, she came by. She went to take a shower." Mel says, "How long ago was that?"
She goes, "Oh, I don't know, a couple hours." Mel leaves and then Mike gets out from under the bed and says,
I'm out of here." And she's like, "What are you doing? What do you mean? What do you mean you're out of here?"
He goes, "I'm not gonna get caught doing this." She goes, "Oh, you chicken shit."
He leaves. The tension is ratcheting up at this point because we follow Mel to the shower area

(01:03:53):
and he finds Meg's dead body and at that point he loses it and he says, "I had him but I let him go."
He's talking about Ricky clearly.
The main thing I noticed about the corpse was the fact that when the dead Meg falls out of the shower stall,
We see that that cut went all the way down her spine in a fairly straight line.
-Mm-hmm.
-But Mel is now hell-bent on stopping the killer, and the killer in his mind is Ricky.

(01:04:17):
But then we cut back to Judy who was curling her hair by herself in her bed.
And somebody opens the door and we get a glimpse of the killer.
I thought it looked clearly a boy, but I didn't I couldn't make out the face very well.
-You know how some movies are not made for HD?
-Yeah.
-It's like once you start getting higher definition, all of a sudden you start seeing things you were never meant to see.

(01:04:43):
Because this scene was, it was obviously meant to be a backlit scene to where you're not going to be able to see the face or anything because of the way the lighting is.
So is it now because watching this on a Blu-ray or a streaming service now you're going to have a higher resolution.
So now you're seeing what you shouldn't have?
Because I don't know back like VHS or just the initial theater projections.

(01:05:09):
I don't know how well you could see that.
But watch again now, it is clearly Ricky and Wig.
-So you say.
I know that VHS's will get darker the more generations they were removed from the original negative.
-Well yeah, but not only that, but just the quality to begin with from VHS,
you're not going to have as crisp a picture and you're not going to see as much of the detail.

(01:05:30):
Right. But still, many VHS enthusiasts will say that adds to the picture.
And they'll say there's nothing like watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre on the
on the ideal VHS generation that it came in from the 80s.
-Oh yeah, and I'm not saying that it's always, I'm not saying it's better to go up.
I'm saying there's some things that it's better to not go up.
The original Halloween, the famous scene of Michael just coming out of the shadow,

(01:05:55):
you see him a lot sooner now.
Because originally, it's not until he really starts to come forward that you see the mask.
Now, before he even moves, you can kind of make the mask out.
-Well, when it's something like that, you think the director would be like,
"Yeah, we need to add a little digital here," or something.
-Or just not improve it. Just, "Okay, this is where it is."

(01:06:16):
If we go further, then that means that it's not going to be...
You're not going to be able to view it how it was initially intended.
-Very much.
-And it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was multiple movies that were made specifically
specifically because they knew there's you're not going to be able to see it once we put it out there
because the technology just is not there.

(01:06:37):
They weren't thinking, well, maybe one day they'll improve it and be able to see things in the shadows that we can't now.
So a lot of things were were made because -they were made for existing technology.
-Yeah, and it allowed them to do things and hide things in ways that you can't do now because just cameras pick up too much
-The cinematographer lit the room a certain way to get a certain effect

(01:06:59):
-Yeah
-And if you put it in ultra HD suddenly the cinematographers work is nullified because now the room is much brighter than he meant it
To be -yeah, -but anyway back to the movie
Ricky in a wig is standing there outside the door when Judy asks who's there?
Whoever it is don't turn the light on to though make us go to that stupid social
-Yeah, and she had already said that she didn't go because she was tired and was gonna get some sleep

(01:07:23):
But now she's curling her hair and getting ready for bed
Apparently -Ricky and a wig walks in and she looks at and Judy looks at them and says it's you
What are you doing here or something?
Something along those lines when a hand lashes out and slaps her unconscious
-And I don't know if it's unconscious or just to the point to where she's not getting
Like getting up because she does lay there and kind of move around a bit and make some noises indeed

(01:07:47):
She does but I think those were unconscious noises based on what happened to her in a moment. -Oh, yeah
She I don't not saying that she wasn't incapacitated, but I don't know if you would necessarily say
Unconscious -fair enough. I'm getting to the best part of the movie almost -well then get there. -I'm trying
-why do you keep stopping? -'cause you keep saying something. -oh, i thought that was what i was supposed to do was -well

(01:08:10):
I know that well yes, we'll say something is one thing, but we're
nitpicking, I think it was Ricky in a wig.
I think she wasn't knocked out.
- Oh no, I'm not saying I think it was Ricky in a wig.
It is clearly Ricky in a wig.
- So you say, I was trying to leave it ambiguous.
- Well, that's why I was saying,
I don't know if the technology has made it now
to where it can't be as ambiguous or what,

(01:08:32):
but yeah, it was clearly Ricky in a wig, but anyway.
- Judy is knocked out with a slap.
The killer picks up the curling iron
that's so hot it's burned the covers of the bed.
They put a pillow over Judy's moaning face,
And all we see is the curling iron shadow in the killer's hand coming down.
We hear a sizzle and that Judy's hand springs up in the agony as it takes a long time for

(01:08:53):
her to die or pass out.
And still we hear this sizzle, this gross noise like meat burning.
But the killer pulls the bunk out of from the wall and dumps her body behind it.
-Eddie comes back to his little campsite and finds three kids butchered.
He pukes.
And who are these three kids you ask?
Why they were the three kids who were throwing sand at Angela at the beach.
-Well that's what I was going to ask if that's who they were.

(01:09:14):
They were indeed.
-Because there was never really anything with any other kids other than those.
So it would seem odd for those three to get killed.
When it goes back and it shows them, you also see their sleeping bags torn open and all
the batting from ins... the insulation from the bags all scattered all over too.
Blankets don't do that.
-He finds the campsite and it's a very gory scene as he comes upon these I think three...

(01:09:38):
Is it three or four dead kids?
-there was three and then the other pile was like stuff that was left there.
Right.
But I think I saw, -I remember there being four, four shapes and at least three of
them were dead kids.
-Children hacked to bits in their blankets or sleeping bags.
I think there were blankets.
-Well, like I said, I'll post the picture and you guys can decide for yourselves.

(01:10:00):
Is it blankets or sleeping bags?
-Then we cut to Ricky as he leaves his bunk to go and get something to eat from the
rec hall.
-He was sick that night and he is hungry now.
Well, with the number of fly strips all over the place and in the kitchen, over where you
make the food, in the mess hall, right there around where you're eating.

(01:10:20):
So it's not a surprise he got sick.
-Ricky gets his candy bar.
Then we cut to Ron and he's picking up the phone and he hears from Eddie.
Eddie describes apparently the butcher children.
Then we cut back to Ricky.
Mel is there and he grabs Ricky and he starts slapping him.
He says, and he's all like, "I got you now, you little bastard.
Now it's my turn."
he beats Ricky despite his protests. -Oh, he beats a living shit out of him. -He beats

(01:10:42):
Ricky until he's unconscious. -Yeah. And he does like that pissed off gorilla punch wails
on him. -Mel wanders away from the, from the beating and he wanders where of all places
onto the archery range of the, of camp Arawak. And he gets an arrow in the throat from the
killer. -And this was an interesting shot the way they did it because they don't cut away.

(01:11:03):
It's a shot of him standing there seeing somebody and it's like, oh, it can't be you.
And then a shot from behind the killer just holding an arrow.
You don't see a bow or anything.
And then it cuts back to him and holds on him while an arrow goes into his neck and
through.
So it's not like they, they cut away and then cut back with the arrow already there.

(01:11:27):
-So who's all died at this point.
We've had Artie the chef, we've had Ronnie the bunny.
- well, Artie the chef didn't die.
- Artie the chef didn't die, but he was burned badly.
- Yeah, he probably was wishing he died.
- Then we had Ronnie the bully, who was drowned in the canoe.
Then we had Billy the jerk, who was stung to death
in the bathroom stall.
Then we've had Meg, who was killed in the shower.

(01:11:48):
Now we've had Mel, who was shot through the neck
with an arrow.
- And Judy.
- And Judy, who was violated with a curling iron.
- And the three kids.
- And three kids who were hacked to pieces,
hacked to pieces with a hatchet.
-Really only one of them is a not dead
while the others are dead.
One of them is just I wish I was dead.
But that's still quite a few victims.
- Indeed.

(01:12:08):
- 'Cause just because he didn't die
does not mean he's not a victim.
- But the cops show up at the camp at that point
and they tell the counselors to get everyone
into their bunks.
The counselors scramble to do so.
They find out that quickly that Angela and Judy
are missing from their bunk
and that Paul and Ricky are missing from theirs.
- So this cop is the same cop that was there before.
- Yes.

(01:12:29):
- When they were dealing with the body under the canoe.
And now he's back.
- Looks like he had a fake mustache.
- And he has a fake mustache.
They went Groucho Marx on him.
But what happened was, between when he did the first shots
and when he did those, he had gotten another part
and ended up having to shave his mustache.
So when they had to bring him back for that,

(01:12:50):
they put the fake mustache on and it was an obvious fake.
- Yeah, even I saw it.
-And not even like it was the same color.
I mean, it was just, it was very badly done.
Why couldn't you just either have a different cop
or just have him shave?
It's not like this is the same day or the next day.
This is over a period of time.
So he could have easily just shaved.

(01:13:11):
- I think they wanted continuity
from having the same character appear and they wanted him,
I think he probably looked too young without the mustache.
- But he would have looked better without it
than with that Groucho mustache.
- This might be the high def thing again.
- Oh no, this was one of the things
that even VHS, it was clear that is a poorly done fake mustache.

(01:13:32):
-The camp is now in uproar and they are scrambling to account for everyone there
because they know there is a killer loose somewhere in the camp.
-And we know why Judy's missing.
-We know why Judy's missing. We know where Ricky is.
And we cut to Paul, who is waiting on the beach for Angela.
-She had said to meet her there.
-She shows up. Her hair has been disheveled, to say the least.

(01:13:54):
She suggests that they go swimming. Paul says, "What about our clothes?"
She says, -"Take them off."
-And he eagerly agrees.
-Oh yeah, he's all excited now.
-Reaching the climax of the film and it's quick cuts from scene to scene.
A cop and a counselor find Ricky bloodied and beaten.
And they look at him for signs of life and as luck would have it they get some.
Because he coughs and comes and he wakes up.

(01:14:15):
So Mel tried to kill Ricky but he failed.
-Now did he try and kill him and fail or did he try to kill him and stopped himself?
-We'll never know.
Yeah, it's not like you can ask him. He's got a arrow through his throat.
Indeed. We hear a counselor scream as it's Susie who was the nice counselor.
She has just found Meg in the shower.

(01:14:36):
The cops run in and that's when we notice the cops mustache is fake.
Then we have Ron and the lady counselor.
They find Angela humming, sitting naked on the ground stroking Paul's hair.
-Okay. Now at this point, I'll say if we're going to go any further,
this is where we should say, if you haven't seen this, stop listening now.
-Well, should we go on? -Um, this movie is not new. -No, it's not.

(01:15:00):
So, but it's new to a lot of people.
Cause I think it's getting a resurgence of late. -Oh yeah.
And there's a lot of people that have just started watching it just because
they're just at the age to where they're starting to watch those kinds of movies
or have gotten to where it's like, you know, I've always not watched these movies because they were old.
Let me see how good they actually were. There's new generations.

(01:15:24):
-Yes, it's one of the things that's wonderful about these. Some of the movies from the 80s is they have this intergenerational appeal where where they get rediscovered.
-Yeah, and especially with 80s horror movies, because so much of it was practical and the practical effects are so much better than the CG.
-Yeah. And uh...

(01:15:44):
-But yeah, I would say definitely...
Yeah, let's keep going.
They've had plenty of time to watch it.
And if they want it to be spoiled for them, then they can keep listening.
If they don't want it to be spoiled, they can stop it at this point and come back later.
That's an advantage of a podcast.
They can pause and come back.
-Ron and the lady counselor find Angela humming, sitting naked on the ground, stroking Paul's hair.

(01:16:06):
He appears to be asleep and smiling.
Then we have a flashback.
Aunt Martha welcoming a new child to her home, presenting them with a dress to wear.
-With a bandaged head.
-A bandaged head.
Aunt Martha always wanted a girl, but then her husband left and she says to the bandaged head
child, she suggests the name Angela. And then she says, I know you're going to like that name.

(01:16:28):
Won't you, Peter?
-Yeah. And she couldn't have, she couldn't keep it as Peter because she already has a boy.
-She already has a boy named Ricky.
We can't just have two boys in the house. That just wouldn't do it all.
-Exactly.
-Peter had his head wrapped in a bandage. Martha raised a brain damaged boy as a girl because having another boy in the house just wouldn't do.

(01:16:50):
-Yeah.
-President Angela gets up. She drops Paul's severed head and she just stands there naked covered in blood holding the knife and the camera pulls back.
-Well, it flashes to the two counselors that found them in shock and saying,
"Oh my God, she's a boy."
-And we get a full body shot of Angela with a clearly masculine naked body with a penis.

(01:17:14):
-Full frontal male nudity with an Angela face.
-With an Angela face and holding a knife.
-And uh, with Paul's severed head laying on the ground.
-And Angela naked is just standing there like the bride of Frankenstein,
and staring at the counselors with their mouth open
and a kind of freaky grimace,
kind of just hissing at them like an animal.
- At one point, they had talked about

(01:17:36):
putting a fake penis on Angela
and her mom was like, uh-uh, that ain't gonna fly.
We ain't doing that.
- Yeah, can't blame her.
- So they found a college kid, shaved him down,
and then made this mask of Felicia's face in that position.
So it's some guy wearing a very thin Angela mask.

(01:17:58):
- That in high def doesn't really match his skin that well.
- No, it doesn't match as well as it would
with more shadows, but it's still more convincing
than a lot of other effects of the time.
- So what did you think of the movie, Grim?
- I don't watch it as often as I think I should,

(01:18:19):
but at the same time, when I do watch it,
I wonder why I think I should watch it
as often as I think I should.
-Okay, what? -Yeah, I figured that would make you question my sanity there. -Yeah
Speak plainly man. You don't like it that well to like when you're watching it
You're not enjoying it enough to be like, I wish I watched this more often
-Well, no, it's one of those movies that when I'm not watching like when I'm when I think about the movie

(01:18:43):
It's like oh, yeah, I really should watch it. I should watch it more often and and just I think oh, yeah
This is great movie. I should watch it and then I watch it and it's like why do I keep
thinking this is a great movie that I should keep watching?
The acting is kind of shit.
There's so much that is just really sketchy about it.
It's like, okay, I'm really feeling uncomfortable.
And there's so many times when it's like,
okay, sometimes a horror movie,

(01:19:03):
the feeling uncomfortable is appropriate
and this isn't one of them.
But there's so many times when it's like,
this really is not a good movie.
But then at the same time, it's one of those
where it's not a good movie to the point
to where it starts to become a good movie.
It's not like it's so bad it's good,
but it's getting there and I think it's one that's better to watch with somebody that hasn't seen it or a group of people that have

(01:19:28):
-You think it's a funner movie for a social experience than a solo experience?
-Yeah, it definitely is a movie that's better with people and I hate to say it but if it wasn't for the ending
I don't know if this movie would really be what it is today
I think really the ending is what set it apart to where it's even remembered

(01:19:49):
-Well, it is quite the hell of an ending.
-Yeah, but everything leading up to it is kinda like, "Okay..."
-Well, I don't... I have a slightly better opinion of it than that.
-I mean, it's not like it was bad, it just wasn't good.
-Fair enough.
I for one liked it.
For a long time, I thought that Sleepaway Camp was just a cheaper Friday the 13th, and I never gave it a chance.

(01:20:11):
-Oh, yeah, I'm right there with you. I like it.
It's like a Friday the 13th knockoff with lower budget.
-No, I don't think it is a Friday the 13th. That's the thing. I thought it was because I hadn't seen it and I never gave it a chance because I always just heard it was called Sleepaway Camp.
And I thought, okay, Sleepaway Camp is going to be a lot of tits and a lot of campers getting killed by some mass killer.

(01:20:32):
But, you know,
-Yeah, it's definitely not that.
-No, it is not that at all. So a few years when I got into streaming, I gave Sleepaway Camp the chance it deserves. And I kind of liked it. It's no way-
-So you didn't see it until streaming started?
-No.
-Okay. Yeah. I remember renting this on VHS. -No, not me. -I think at one point I even had this on VHS.

(01:20:54):
-I think, uh, yeah, the only thing it has in common with Friday the 13th is that both the camp setting
and the kill scenes include a POV angle of the killer. But I mean, let's face it. That just
makes them both hardcore post Halloween slashers. I like the fucked up subtext of the movie. And I
thought it worked as like a camp movie gone wrong, like meatballs or like something like that.
-Yeah, this does kind of feel like meatballs meets Friday the 13th. -Yeah, I mean -with too much softball.

(01:21:19):
-I was an idiot. It's
Like sleepaway camp is its own movie. It's a tightly plotted thriller mystery with some good red herrings in the great
-I don't know about tightly plotted
-I think it's tightly plotted enough so that when they start to turn the screws in on you towards the climax
You're worried you're feeling the tension which to me makes all the difference. I mean it definitely builds toward that climax

(01:21:41):
Well, it's also one where let's say Angela is the only killer. Okay. It's one that once Ricky gets
grabbed and
Starts getting hit, you know, okay
Well, they're not gonna let Ricky be the killer even though we just saw him in a wig with a knife
or not with a knife
We just saw him in a wig standing in a doorway and then somebody got killed by the person in the wig

(01:22:04):
But you know because there's so much time left if he is the killer then somehow he's gonna manage to get up from
from this kind of a beating.
- I didn't think it looked like Ricky in a wig.
I thought it looked like Angela
standing there in Ricky's clothes.
- No, it was clearly Ricky in a wig.
The only way it could have been not him in a wig
that killed Judy would have been

(01:22:26):
if he would have been standing at the door
and she would have been right behind him
and they went in together.
Or were at least there together.
- Fair enough.
- I mean, even the actors like,
"Yeah, and then you see me clearly standing there in a wig."
- Oh.
It is clearly him in a wig. -What would you change about the movie?
-Him in a wig. I would have made that so much harder to see that it was him. I would have

(01:22:49):
paid a lot more attention to that lighting. -I would have made Artie's kill more brutal.
Like for one, I would have had made it like a, I would have made like a giant steam cloud
come up off the floor when the water pours on him. But I also would have, I would have
had more aunt Martha. -I don't know. -I don't know. She's just so fun to watch. Actually.
it that's more of a joke you can't get the all Martha was in the movie just as

(01:23:12):
much as you could as -yeah I don't know if you could have really taken much more
of her -no -and not that she was a bad character but too much of that character
would have changed this movie just the tone of some movie too much -I I could
have watched an entire movie seat from our Martha on why why can't I pronounce
the word Martha all of a sudden -because you heard me saying Aunt Martha

(01:23:33):
-apparently -because now you keep wanting to say Aunt Martha -I could watch an
an entire movie from Aunt Martha's weird point of view.
And I could just, I don't know, I could watch that movie.
- Yeah, she seemed, like I said before,
she seemed more like something out of Twin Peaks.
- Very much.
I think it was pretty good for what it was.
It was a low-budget slasher,

(01:23:54):
but it pulled some twists and turns out of its ass
to make itself unique,
and I think it's just remembered fondly
for the, just for what it is.
I think it was a surprise hit when it came out.
It did well in theaters,
and it's had a nice life on VHS.
- I know it's definitely a cult classic.
- Mm-hmm, but now it's over.

(01:24:14):
And the train is coming to a stop
and it's time to say goodbye here in the movie car.
We hope everyone out there in podcast land
was able to get a little bit of new appreciation
for the movie we talked about just now.
- Sleepaway camp.
- Thanks to everyone who listened and downloaded.
We love all of you.
Thanks to our mutual friend.
Please like, subscribe, comment, share, heart, fav
on whatever, however you're listening to us.

(01:24:35):
Tell your friends about us or criticize us.
Tell us what we're doing wrong.
- Yeah, you know, I've been saying,
and I've realized this editing last week,
so for some reason it just hit me,
I keep saying, "Tell us what your favorite scene is."
We don't talk about what our favorite scenes are.
We talk about what we would change.
So tell us what you would change.
- There you go.

(01:24:55):
- To hell with this, what was your favorite scene?
Tell us, what would you change about this movie?
- But be good to each other out there, everybody,
and we're all stuck together in this crazy train,
and we're all we have in here.
So bye for now, folks.
(upbeat music)
[music]

(01:25:21):
(air whooshing)

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