Mel Hawley | Ep 133

Mel is the mother of 8 children, a journalist, and the founder of Sovereign Souls Media. She hosts the Justice in Jeopardy podcast. We are going to continue to feature the story of J6 and those who have been investing time in it - we will discuss Proud Boy sentencing, prisoner treatment, and the recent sentence handed down to Info War's Owen Schroyer. https://substack.com/@melhawley_____________________________________________Today's podcast supported by https://CatholicVote.OrgIf you are interested in supporting the going litigation against the FBI over religious liberties, you can visit https://CatholicVote.Org. Visit http://PatriotCoolers.com/discount/KYLE and use Promo code "KYLE" for 10% off and free shipping over $50. 🇺🇸 Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KyleSeraphin🚨 Follow on TruthSocial: https://truthsocial.com/@kyleseraphin⭐️ 5-star Reviews (scroll to the bottom to leave one): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-kyle-seraphin-show/id1654162813

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower, an
American patriot. Prepare to embrace the
uncomfortable truth, because this program has no time for
comforting lies. Here is civil liberties
enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI
agent Kyle Seraf. Hello, my friends.
Welcome to the Kyle Seraphin Show.

(00:23):
It looks like I got a little something in my throat right
now. It is Wednesday, September the
13th. Want to welcome you to a midweek
show? I think we're going to have a
good time here. Got an excellent guest that we
are going to ask some questions about coverage of January 6.
I think there's a story in both the what's going on and what's
happened with the defendants, but also in the process of
covering it. I think people that have been
involved in this have learned things along the way and they

(00:44):
are starting to piece together more and more of it.
But it is a an onion that has many, many layers.
So stick around. We're going to be talking to Mel
Halle in just a moment here. I want to say thanks to our
sponsor so we don't get interrupted with any of that.
Let's say first thanks to our buddy Gerdo Boyle.
This is our merch store. This is the dash
suspendables.com. You guys can go there.
Check out the tshirts, check out.
He's getting some hats and we'vegot some lapel pins.
I'll be wearing those soon whenever I do interviews on the

(01:06):
the bigger stations, so check them out.
Thedashsuspendables.com And always a big thank you to our
friends over at Catholic Vote. America's top Catholic
organization in the fight for faith, freedom and family.
Put your e-mail in there. Get the loop.
It is a fantastic e-mail. You guys will learn something
every day. I assure you of that one.
And then lastly, I want to say abig thanks to Patriot Coolers,

(01:28):
our OG sponsors. You just saw a tweet about them
today. If you're following our Twitter
channel, go to patriotcoolers.com.
Use promo code. Kyle, Kyle.
That gets you 10% off showing right There is the the Veterans
and 1st responders collection. They've got stuff for everybody.
Who's a cop, who's a firefighter, who's an EMS worker
in your life. They've got some really nice
branded gear, American flags with like firefighter axes and

(01:48):
so on. The EMS symbol.
Good, good quality stuff. It's all it's all laser etched
in there and they're really goodpeople.
There's one. There's Ryan's right there.
That's his patriotic Tumblr. Again, promo code.
Kyle, when you go to patriotcoolers.com.
Big thanks to them. All right, let's let's launch
right into this. Mel and I have been holding up,
holding you guys up. We're doing some tech
difficulties, Ryan and I troubleshooting, so we don't

(02:10):
have any other problems from before.
So, Mel, welcome to the Kyle Seraphen Show.
First of all, tell me who you are, where you came from, and
then we'll get into why you started covering January 6th
stuff. Okay, okay.
Great. Well, you know, I have I I'm a
mom of eight, Catholic. That's why I'm a mom of eight.
And I was, you know, I was just a mom playing on Twitter like

(02:33):
three years ago and but I've always been, you know, always
been patriots. I I did have a little bit of a
following on Facebook and I I ended up working for a
podcaster. And that we had a media team
that was going to go to the Capitol on January 6th.

(02:54):
And we were just going to, you know, send back her live stream
videos that we took and picturesto this podcaster who was going
to be live streaming it. And you know, I'll tell you, it
was when I left the Capitol thatday and I was riding home and I
left about 3:00. So I wasn't there, you know?

(03:16):
Into the evening or anything butit and it turned on the radio
and and heard what they were saying and and I looked at my
friend that I wrote in with and I said this isn't what I just
experienced you know this is this is not okay and I had I had
only posted 11 personal picture to Facebook from my day and I

(03:38):
went on Facebook and I said I'm going to go take that picture
down because something's just not right here and.
You know, so I so I had a big interest in it.
I was following any stories I heard about people being
arrested. I was hearing about I I live in
Virginia and I was hearing aboutpeople being arrested here in
Virginia and being raided. You know, their children being

(04:01):
taken out 5:00 in the morning inpajamas and freezing cold
weather. And you know I just started
following this and and and started found my way into the
community through other January 6th defendants.
And then come September of 2021,I I had a couple of agents show

(04:23):
up at my house and they they questioned me for about 30
minutes and something just didn't seem right about it
either. I wasn't even sure that they
were actually federal agents. They they showed me badges.
What do? The badges look like well, they
were, they were. You know, if I remember

(04:44):
correctly, they were, they were just metal badges inside of some
kind of you know, leather or plastic or whatever.
I I don't remember that well. I wasn't really thinking about
it at the time. Were they very small badges?
No, they were not really small and anyway so they they, you

(05:07):
know, they were attractive 30 something couple.
But she had a pierced nose and and he had a a beard.
And I thought, I didn't think federal agents were allowed to
to look like that. I thought they, you know, had
some pretty strict rules about what they had to look like.
And so when when they were getting ready to leave I said
you know, do you have a card? And they said no, no, we we

(05:29):
don't carry cards. It's not safe.
They said you can see our badgesagain and and actually when they
first got there. I I said the first thing I said
was I was there as media do you want to see my media badge?
And they said yes. I went and got it.
They took pictures but they theypulled out their badge again or
he did and and said you you can see our badges.
I said can I take a picture? And I said no and put it away.

(05:51):
And then they said you can call the Washington field office to
verify and our names are are Jason and Olivia.
And I'm thinking, wait, your first name is supposed to be
special agent? But why are you giving me first
names? This is insane.
So you know they they said is itokay you know if we contact you
again I said a guess. And so I, you know I immediately

(06:15):
got a got an attorney involved and both the attorney and I
called this field office and andwere laughed at for for
suggesting that they could verify that agents were at my
house by giving first names. And that's when we kind of
started putting together, you know, they're they're pulling

(06:37):
agents off of everything. It's it's very possible that
these were undercover agents andthat's why they're used to just
giving their first name and that's why she had a pierced
nose and and he had a beard. And you know, I mean, does that
sound feasible to you, Kyle, that that's what that was?
Not really. It sounds like they were just

(06:58):
FBI agents. They don't know how to talk to
people, which we keep seeing. I actually just shared something
on Twitter this morning. You know, people that are out of
shape, people that are slovenly dressed, people that are don't
know how to deal with the public, don't know how to
identify themselves, think that it's scary or that they are
secret agents or something like that.
I used to joke. I used to work at the Washington
field office. I was there five years.
I probably can find out who Jason, Olivia are.
That's probably like 3 phone calls for me.

(07:19):
So I'll. I'll I do have their.
I do have their full names now because they came back two
months later, and when they cameback, I don't want to cut you
off. I just want you to understand
that that FBI agents, the assumption is that you're going
to see somebody in a suit and a tie.
They're going to come knock on your door.
They're going to present credentials the way Fox Mulder
and and Dana Scully used to on The X-Files.

(07:39):
And they're going to have a conversation with you that is
going to be intelligent people asking intelligent questions and
what we have now. And I hate to use the term, but
they're, they're kind of like social retards.
I had so many new agents come out of the field that had never
knocked on a door before and talk to a stranger.
And so you're much better off having a background in sales and
and corporate sales then you arehaving a background and whatever
it is that they're hiring peopleinto.

(08:00):
And there's a lot of these people that just they're act,
they act weird. They literally have a rule at
the Academy. Don't, don't be weird.
That's what they try to tell people when they teach them how
to talk. And you obviously experience the
opposite, that the idea that a female would have a nose
piercing is not crazy. I obviously have a beard just
for your awareness and I'm goingto let you just run wild for a
second here. But my my first sort of mentor
within my squad told me that I need to grow a beard because

(08:21):
it's the it's the last FU to management that they can't make
a stop. So that's why that's why I grew
a beard and I've grown a beard ever since.
And anyway, it's it's not the FBI that you think it is, though
and I think that's really, I think it's that's really
important part of your story because it's not what you expect
and it's very weird. Yeah, it was just, it was
bizarre. It really was, and I can only
imagine being on the other end of it too.

(08:43):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was crazy.
So when they came back, I said you can talk to my attorney and
they said what? What?
What? You said we could come back.
And I said things have changed. And so after that, I I did only
converse with them through my attorney and they they wanted to
know if they could interview me.I said sure, why not?

(09:05):
And so I sat down with them at the the FBI office in in
Manassas, VA, and, you know, hada little conversation there.
It was, it was interesting you had to go through a little
security office there. I don't know if you've been to
that office, Kyle, but did you okay?
So there's a little outside. Security building that you have
to go through to to get in and at the time they were you know

(09:29):
they were requiring masking so Ihad a I had a a mask that was
the American flag and and so I you know I asked on upside down
and and the this the Screener out there he he looked at me as
we went through security and he said your mask is on upside
down. I said, yeah, I know, you said
our country is in duress right now.
It's under duress. That's that's intentional.

(09:50):
Was the Screener an Indian man? They have a like a bunch of
contractors. Those aren't FBI employees from
what I remember. No, it was a it was a black man.
Yeah. They had a couple of people that
were working that that didn't speak English as the first
language. I always thought that was really
fun. I was like, I'm glad.
They're keeping. They're keeping us safe.
Yes, contract company Wackanhut or something Okay.

(10:13):
So you went into the the field office or this is that's called
the resident agency out in Manassas that's part of the
Washington field, you probably know that.
And so you sat down you went through the the visitor entrance
is what we call that side as youdrive in on the and then drive
into the right and pull in through that little out there
and walk in through the visitor and they screen you and do the
the metal detector and all that kind of thing.
So then somebody came and met you there and walked you into
the building. Yeah they they these these two

(10:36):
agents did and they they met my attorney and myself and and we
walked in and went to some little.
You know interview room there onthe 1st floor and and you know
this was after 4:00 in the afternoon so this was kind of
you know after hours people had gone home, you know so it's
pretty quiet in there and you know they made it pretty clear

(10:58):
that they that they were not going to charge me that just the
way they they acted you know they they were very they said
you know you can leave at any time.
You know they were just different things that they that
they said and and so they interviewed me.
They asked me about my my, my day there and and their their

(11:19):
focus was where who was planningthis, who was coordinating this.
You know they they went on and on about that and I was just
going what we're just a bunch ofpatriots going to you know use
our free speech you know. And so, you know, at the end of
it, they they did ask me. If they could have my my video

(11:42):
coverage from that day and you know I said sure, you know they
they've got it all anyway. I mean you know I'm not it's all
been published. It's all out there.
And they they they said is thereanything incriminating?
And my attorney said, well I've watched it twice and unless
you're going to try to arrest the you know 200 people who who

(12:04):
breached the the. The bike racks at the bottom of
the scaffolding there and a little did we know that yes
indeed they would like to arrestthe 200 people that breached
that. Was that shocking when you
started finding that out? When I found what out that they
were gonna go after the people on the bike racks.

(12:25):
Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, cuz they
keep telling us we're still going after 1500 more.
And and I said you know I I there is some incriminating
stuff in there. I said I've got video of the the
police officers opening the scaffolding door talking to us
and letting us all in. You know that's that's
incriminating you want that. So you know they they've never

(12:47):
they've never gone into charge me thankfully but you know I I
feel their presence I I you knowI know they're listening to me
and and in fact my my interviewsI've I've interviewed.
Since then you know I've gone onto cover as a as a podcaster my
my whole focus has been January 6th completely for the past year

(13:11):
and before that I was, you know it was mostly January 6th.
So you know I've I, I've gotten to know a lot of these people.
A lot of these families. And and it it's pretty much been
my whole life, to be honest because you know I want to dig
into that and I want to understand a little bit more

(13:31):
about that. So I put my toe in the water
because somebody asked me if I would interview the the five
Proud Boys who were just sentenced.
And if the answers of course, yes.
I'm happy to take that phone call and do that interview and
we did. And the amount of online hate
and vitriol that's happened particularly on Twitter, that's
the biggest place for it. But also even on true social,
which is the 2 platforms I use the most.
It's it's pretty astounding actually.
And it's it's kind of, it's kindof disgusting that the America

(13:54):
has got to the point where people are so mad about
something that didn't affect them.
What do you think the the emotional trigger is for people
that are mad about, mad at and about the J6 defendants?
Donald Trump, it's it's it's connection to Donald Trump.
It's just that irrationality. Yeah, yeah, I really think it
is. It's it's the the Trump

(14:16):
Derangement Syndrome and it and it carries over into anything
that the media tells them is connected to Donald Trump.
How how do people get so crazy about Donald Trump?
You've been you've been watchingthis the same way I did.
Did you have any sense that, like when he even when he was
running, could you have ever imagined how mad people would be
about this guy? No no I couldn't and and it's

(14:39):
just it's it's fed by the media I mean you know they they're
they don't like their feelers getting hurt and and he says
mean things and. And they're told that he's a
really, really bad guy. And they eat it up, They believe
it. They wanna have some anger
somewhere, so that's where they direct it.
And then we're the maggots and they gotta go after us as well.

(15:01):
And it's just it's so hard to watch, Yeah.
How do you deal with that? I tried it.
I tried to just ignore it once in a while, I get sucked in and
I actually. Start conversing with these
people online. Then I'm like, what am I doing?
There's no reason for this. This is just it's pointless and

(15:24):
it does nothing. It does nothing to move anything
forward in the right direction. It's certainly not productive
conversation. It is monetized engagement in my
case. So I just sort of mute them and
let them tire themselves out, I guess.
But it's really wild how just vile people will be.
There's a guy out there right now.
This is kind of unrelated, but it's fun for conversation.

(15:45):
That is accusing me. And I put accusing in air
quotes. He's accusing me of being a
trucker. I don't.
I don't know what the allegationmeans.
Like, I don't know why that's anallegation for anybody but he
accused me of being a trucker and being sad.
And I was like, yeah, it'd be cool if you could do it like a
podcast from a truck. I would do that.
That would be really fun. But I do a podcast from a
hardwired location with a studioevery day.

(16:06):
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
It's it's it's so strange. But they just get out there in
the world. They they've created these
fantasy, you know, threats and you're one of them and I'm one
of them. And then they they get really
mad about it's so strange it's it's just a weird time to be
alive. Let's talk about as you've
started digging into this this animal of January 6 as you and
and our our mutual friend Sean. I think we're, I think you're,

(16:28):
you know, Sean, he, he said. You've interviewed more J Sixers
than anybody except the FBI. Does that sound true?
That that is true, I believe so.And maybe more than the FBI,
because the FBI doesn't interview some people.
They just knocked down their door at 6:00 AM.
Yes I I I agree I you know it's funny and and and continuing

(16:50):
actually in the in the line of of the trolls I I have these
people tell me that that I don'tknow what I'm talking about and
that they know. What January 6 really was about
and and even when I say you knowhave you have you looked at my
profile do you do you realize that you know this is this is my
my line of expertise you know and not only from you know first

(17:12):
from being there myself but but from you know interviewing all
of these people and watching allof this video and you know just
being connected to all the different people who are on the
front lines fighting for this and.
And then and then they still think that that I don't know
what I'm talking about. So then I just move along.
But it's it's kind of crazy. It really is.
There's a so do you remember theconcept of the Gnostics?

(17:34):
You know, they were like a Christian sort of heretical sect
early on in in the the church. They they had secret knowledge
that was sort of the the hallmark of it.
There's a lot of Gnostics out there about January 6th.
They know more than you do, and they can't tell you why.
No, no, they they can't. But but they know, but they know
that you're wrong. The the media told them and and

(17:57):
they've got the secret, the secret CNN.
Pass. Yes, yes.
And and there's a, there is a video montage that the the
government introduces this evidence into every single one
of these cases. And it's just all of the
violence on the West side of theCapitol.

(18:18):
So even if people were on the east side.
They were at the Columbus doors the whole time.
They never even went on the Westside.
The government still enters thisvideo montage of all the
violence on the West side of theCapitol and every single one of
these trials and you know it's it's just despicable.
But I think that that video is probably what they what they

(18:39):
took and and gave to all the mainstream media on on January
6th and that they continued to to show on on loop, you know on.
On all of these, on all of thesechannels for weeks and and still
if they need to go to it, they'll go to it.
But yeah, it it's crazy. It really is.

(19:01):
For me, what's been really shocking is seeing the
difference between what happenedin DC and Portland and
Minneapolis and many of the other cities.
Dallas had some, I know Los Angeles had riots over George
Floyd, and some of them I was in, and some of them I just saw
on TV. But they were hundreds of angles
and, you know, thousands of random different people in it.
And then they the fixation was never that.
It was always the 2-3 hours thatwas rowdy outside the Capitol

(19:24):
where things, you know, it sounded like they got pretty
hairy. But it wasn't for half the year.
I don't know. It just yeah.
And and I mean you know I might go to is is just the the media
coverage of of the what went down in DC with the White House
and all the burning that was going on.
I mean that that was wild. So we don't hear anything about

(19:48):
that. So you're in the Virginia area
that that would have been local news for you, right?
Pretty much. What do you, what do you
remember hearing about that going through in the summer of
2000, of 2020? You know I'm not I'm an hour
from from DC so it's not extremely local but I was living

(20:09):
in Manassas at the time and there was there was some riots
going on that they came to Manassas and and they were not
far from from where I lived and and that was that was pretty
scary actually that they broughtit there and and they have you
know and that's it's very political they have really tried
hard to to turn Prince William County and Manassas blue and and

(20:33):
it happened quickly They there were literally billboards.
151015 years ago down in Mexico there were literally billboards
that said come to Manassas and they were.
They were trying to bring as many into Manassas as they could
it. It got so bad that they had to
try to change the zoning. They had houses that were being

(20:57):
rented out room by room to to families.
I I knew people who had their own children.
I mean they were not they were not friends, but they you know,
they lived in the neighborhood and and my kids knew their kids
who these kids didn't even have a bedroom of their own because
their families were renting these rooms out to make money to
all of these Hispanic families that had come in across the

(21:20):
border. So you know they they ended up
being successful and pretty muchturning Manassas blue which is
pretty crazy because Manassas isa it's a got a huge Catholic
conservative Catholic populationthat lives there.
Very devout Catholics and and and to be able to to bring in

(21:41):
all of this. I don't know just a a wave of
Democrats basically to to changethe politics there.
It's it's it's really unbelievable that this can
happen so quickly, but it but itdid so.
I did a lot of surveillance cases in Woodbridge, I did a lot

(22:01):
of them in Manassas. We were all in and around that
area. There's a lot of PW County that
we are we are dealing with. So pretty, pretty pretty
familiar stomping grounds for meand and they definitely did
that. There was a lot of MS-13,
there's a lot of fentanyl and all these kind of things that
were going on from the time thatI started doing that.
Very bizarre and and once again contrasted with what happened on

(22:23):
January 6th, as you know. The threat to our democracy,
which I cannot handle, the the, the democracy over and over
again, it's just it's so hard. It is, it's hard.
It's really hard to hear. Okay, so as you've been covering
January 6th, are there differentbaskets of types of people that
are that are involved in this? Are there different kinds of

(22:44):
human beings that were wrapped up in the the FBI arrests and
and and the sort of the Google treatment?
Absolutely, absolutely. And I'll tell you, you know, I,
I went in this just with the with the whole feeling of, oh,
you know, all of these people are are innocent victims.
And then this is so terrible. I can't believe this is

(23:06):
happening. And you know it's it's actually
a really good thing that we havethis, this January 6th community
where we've got all of these different peoples and all all
of, I mean all these different organizations, all of these
different family members, just people that are advocating and
and working on the front lines to really get a better feel for

(23:29):
for what's going on. And so you you brought up the,
the article I did about Ryan Samsa and you know that that was
a really hard, that was a reallytough one because I've been
advocating for this guy for a year and a half.
And you know, he, he had a pretty big story.
He started off in the the DC gulag, the DC jail and you know

(23:57):
suffered some pretty severe injuries apparently at the hands
of the guards there. And they moved him out and then
he ended up in in well, I can't remember if he went directly to
Northern Neck Regional Jail which is in Warsaw, VA or if he

(24:18):
went anywhere else before he gotthere.
But he supposedly was strapped into a chair there and and
viciously beaten a couple of times there as well and and then
they they moved him to Philly and it's when she was in Philly

(24:38):
is where I ended up hearing about him through a letter that
a woman who is a, she's a widow farmer in Kansas.
How did she connect to that? She was writing to all of these
people. Is this the Patriot Mail Project

(25:00):
or something to that effect? That was, yeah.
So Patriot Mail Project connectspeople so that they can write
letters to all of the defendants.
And he received a letter from Ryan and she got in touch with
us and and I eventually ended upgetting in touch with Ryan and

(25:20):
and I've been advocating for himfor for about the past year and
a half putting out his his Gibson go getting people as he
requested to write to his judge and and request this medical
attention that that he says he needs desperately that he's not
getting. And so we've learned a lot about

(25:42):
prisons through this too. So if these guys when they're
when they're not in the DC jail when they're in you know Bureau
of Prisons jails other and and other locations.
You know they they're just part of the general population there.
And one of the things that is a is a little a racket.
You know, I mean, we're all aware of, you know, the drugs

(26:04):
being sold and all that sort of thing, but but cell phones are a
thing too. So I started getting phone calls
and texts from from different phone numbers claiming to be
Ryan and and actually coming to be a couple of the other inmates
too. And and I was like, what in the
world is going on? What in the world is going on?

(26:27):
Yeah so they they can get these cell phones and and and having
talked to some of the other guysyou know that I've been told
that they sometimes they are brought in by drones and drops
into the yard. Apparently there's big money in
that. You know you can get like 15

(26:49):
grand for for flying in you knowa bunch of phones and drugs
whatever to these prisons and itcosts about two grands to get
yourself a phone. But then of course, if your your
cell gets turned over by the guards, they're they're going to
take that $2000 phone, so that'snever good for them.

(27:11):
Operational risk, but that's right, operational risk.
But you can also just rent thesephones by the hour.
So that's what a lot of these guys do.
And they would. I'd have them telling me, well,
I get the phone every day at 2:00, so I can call you at 2:00
and. They're calling from their

(27:31):
cells, they're calling from their cells and their cell
phones. And yeah, it's just, it's a
racket inside. This is this is what they do.
What do you, what do you, what do you think about that?
Like, it obviously gives you access to prisoners, which we
wouldn't have otherwise. There's something interesting
about that. How do you, how do you square

(27:53):
all this kind of stuff? Because it's against policy for
sure. It might be against, it might be
against the federal law. Now that I think about it, I
haven't looked at the law, but Iknow there's certain things that
are listed as contraband. I know the drugs part are and
there's some other things that are contraband.
Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's it's it's been
great to be able to get these interviews and to to get more

(28:14):
information and you know, and then these.
But then these guys, they have access to, to the Internet,
which they normally don't, whichis, which can be pretty scary
because they could be doing a lot of nefarious things.
I mean, yes, I don't know. I mean there's there's so much

(28:35):
that they could do. I don't even know because I, I
don't live that kind of that kind of lifestyle.
But you know, they could be, youknow, creating roles.
They could be becoming people online.
They, you know, I don't know, they could do a lot of things.

(28:55):
They could generate social mediawe're talking about.
They could be creating campaigns.
They could be running disinformation or positive
information about their case or something like that.
So there's, I mean it's they could harassing people that
they're not allowed to be in touch with.
I mean, there's just so many things.

(29:16):
Yeah those are I I mean we'd have to spend probably a whole
day sitting there and and scheming out on the on the pros
and cons list like you say that the Pro is you get to hear some
some direct first hand sourcing which is not always the case and
you don't have to go to the prison to do it.
So that's great. But hey I I wonder what you're
involved in with that okay. So the basket, some of these
people are obviously less reputable in in the the J6
defending group. We're starting to see some of

(29:36):
that. When did you serve first?
Become aware of that Okay. So.
So you know, I started. There were some things along the
way that I thought, you know, I'm not so sure this is 100%,
but you know, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt
because I mean look what they'regoing through, look what they're
going through. But I mean, I mean the torture,
the abuse, just being locked up for so long, everything that's

(30:01):
going on. And so then I was, I was put in
touch with. So Ryan put me in touch with
with another inmate and he explained that that there was
this story that you know this guy saved him because he he
wasn't being taken care of and and this young black man because

(30:21):
there's mostly a mostly black population and there Ryan's not
black. And so to be accepted into this,
you know, population and and everything to be cool and you
know, he had to he had to have this guy on his side And the
guy, you know, says he's you know, helps out Ryan and and

(30:43):
make sure he's safe in there. And then Ryan helps him out
because of some kind of issue hehad.
And so you know he wants to put out this story.
He wants me to help get him and get the story out that you know
this this young black man insidehe's pro trump too and and he
saved Ryan and what a great story this is.

(31:08):
And so he gets the kid on the phone with me and and and I say
kid this guy's I think he's like20 years old and he's in there
kind of involvement in the George Floyd protest riots and.
And so, you know, I I talked to this guy for a minute, but then
he hangs up and then he calls back a little while later away

(31:30):
from Ryan. And he's like, this is Ryan's
trying to get me to tell this story in a way that the story
didn't really happen. And I don't want to lie.
And so I'm. I'm not going to put the story
out there that way. Ryan's putting this twist on it
to try to make money. So all of this is about a grift.
So I mean, look at the look at the fact that a phone in there

(31:51):
is 2 grand and these people are raising money saying, you know,
help me, help me. I need it for my legal defense.
I need it for my family at home.I need it for you know medical
expense and and at one point he he tells the the audience, my
audience that you know the judgehas finally said that I can get

(32:14):
these these surgeries these medical appointments I need, but
I'm going to have to pay for them myself.
Well, that's that's not a. That's not a thing.
No, that is not a thing. Once the Bureau of Prison owns
you, they're responsible as well.
That's I mean, and so did you know that was BS?
Right away I thought that was a little strange.
I I I I. What do you what do you do when

(32:35):
you've got somebody that is lying to you and you're
interviewing them on your podcast?
How does that work for you? You know I I'll tell you my my
show, I've always said it's a it's a platform for their voices
and and the way I look at it, regardless of of of how how
large my audience is now, I I feel like what I'm doing is is a

(32:58):
is an historical record of theirtruth because you know we know
there's there's your truth there's my truth and there's the
truth. And so, you know, there is,
there's a lot looking back that I now know is not true that
people have said in these interviews.

(33:20):
And I've actually had people come back to me and say, you
know, I I want to retract that. And I'm like, you know, I can't,
I can't retract it. It's the internet's out.
You know, it's forever. It's out there.
That's right. You want to come back?
Whether you're running for a Virginia State house and you put
a pornography or you say something on a podcast, they
stay out there forever. Exactly, exactly.

(33:40):
So you know, I'm like, you can come back on and we can do
another interview, but you can't.
I can't get rid of that. It's there.
But but yeah, so, you know, I'vecome to learn along the way.
That's and you know, I just say this is my platform is for your
voices. So, So there are a lot of
stories out there that probably aren't 100% true, but there are

(34:02):
a lot of these defendants that I100% trust.
And I and I know they're good honest people, but there's
there's some sketchy ones too. And you know, a lot of these
people have pretty serious criminal backgrounds.
You talk. About that a little bit.

(34:23):
Or does that does that burn yourcredibility with the with their
ability to come and talk to you?Well yeah.
You know I'll just I'll just saythat you know there's there's
men in the in the in the DCJ on the DC gulag who have who have
felonies who who did 10 years inprison for for killing someone
for for having a meth lab. I I mean you know this is this

(34:49):
is what we're dealing with here and and some of these people you
know I I seriously doubt that they are the Christians that
they pretend to be because that thing they they've created these
these these characters these roles of I am Uber patriot, Uber

(35:11):
Christian guy and you know they've they may be very
charismatic and that is why people listen to them and so
they just continue to play theseroles because it brings in money
and it it makes them popular. I guess is it a lot of money?

(35:35):
For some of these people, it is.For some of these people it is.
And I and I'll tell you I, you know, it was, it was a hard
decision for me to put this story out.
And and I did get some recoil from it because, you know, we're
not supposed to talk bad about any J Sixers.

(35:55):
But when we've got these these stories coming out that are so
obviously BS, it makes us look really stupid to the left when
they're sitting there laughing at the picture of the guy in the
janitor's closet, like I did theminute I saw it.
And we sit there and we say, oh,I can't believe this is America

(36:18):
with a K, you know? Yeah.
Will you, Will you show the picture real quick, Ryan, Again,
we've got to call this out. We've got to call this out
because if we're not, if we're not being honest on our own
side, who's going to believe us?So we've got a picture of a man.
I've got the picture up of Ryan that he released.
He's laying on a mat of some kind in a very, very small room

(36:41):
that's got a bucket and a drain,which is a janitor closet as you
described later on in your piece.
He's pretty clean. He doesn't seem to have any
surgical scars on his face from where he supposedly left and
lost an eye, right. And then, well, the story
changed with the eye because it started out he's blind, you

(37:03):
know, his eye, his eye was popped out of socket.
I mean it. This story's right.
And and at one point in interviewing Ryan I actually had
him say, well, I just, I really it's really something kind of
detached like in my brain with my eye.
I I really just need this littlesurgery.
I I just can't see very well. They can just put the optic
nerve back together. That's fine.

(37:23):
There's no big deal there, yeah.So when you start getting these
stories that that picture right away for me triggered a bunch of
questions. It's like #1 if you've ever seen
anybody who sits in the same room for a period of time, their
their pants are not clean. The story was that he was thrown
in naked, but he's wearing nude colored shorts, which looks like
he could have been in dive school with me.
We used to wear little, you know, khaki shorts like that.

(37:44):
And then he he's just sitting there and so you who took the
picture and who left the picture?
And I thought that was real. I legit thought that was real.
I just, I told Ryan this. I told Ryan, Mad of this, our
producer, I said. I said when I saw that photo, I
had all these questions because I'm naturally curious and I'm
actually, I'm naturally just a skeptic.

(38:04):
That's that's what makes you an investigator.
And you had the same thing. So you start digging into this,
obviously found out the guys getting put up to a story.
What's the real story with what's going on in that photo,
if you understand it okay well. So you know, I I, I do believe
that that maybe something went on in Philly when they had him
locked up there. And I think it's important to
say that this is the guy who wasat the initial breach at the

(38:31):
bottom of the stairs of the Capitol who was wearing a red
mag of hats. And Ray Epps comes over and
whispers to him and Ryan turns his red cap around, Which to a
lot of people, you know, becausewe were, we were told, you know,
antifa's going to be wearing magof hats backwards.
So immediately people think, youknow, oh, that must mean he's

(38:52):
Antifa. Could be, but I don't think
that's why he turned the hat around.
But it could have also just beenlike a like a over the top fan
of Sly Stallone. And he just knew that was like
flipping the switch, right. Well, I'll tell you, this is the
this is the guy who grew up in the streets of Philly.
He's he's big into street fighting and you know he's

(39:12):
anyway that that's kind of the kind of guy he is.
So if you watch the, you can seehe's getting all wired up.
He's ready to go kick some butt and and so that was just one of
those moves where he's like, I got to turn the hat around so I
can see better because I'm aboutto go.
I'm going to have to go beat theshit out of these police

(39:33):
officers. Okay, There goes the jacket.
That's step one. Hats on.
Now we're in business mode. Ray Epps is going to tell him
something and he says he says okay.
Now we all have to get inside the Capitol building, otherwise
I'm not going to get paid by DHSor whatever, he says.
Right. Right.
Whatever. Whatever they've agreed on so.

(39:54):
So he's not, he's not the guys that we're looking at that
didn't ever touch the fence or out with a bullhorn saying don't
go in there to trap or some of these other things.
He's a different kind of guy. How many buckets of people I I I
try to sort these people out in my head and kind of general
camps. If he's the guy that showed up
there to do to get wild and maybe that's it.
And then now he's doing a prisongrift.

(40:14):
What are the other? What are the other camps look
like? You mean just just other?
Yeah, just broadly speaking across the spectrum of people
who are in, in, in the January 6th debacle in jail, I mean from
one end of the spectrum, what's it look like and what's the far
end of the spectrum look like from left to right boundaries,
if you would. Yeah.
So, So yeah, I don't want to mischaracterize January 6th

(40:36):
defendants at all because you know, in any group of people
you're going to have the bad actors for sure, 100% incredible
people. I mean, we've got Ronald Colt
Mcabee, who was a law enforcement officer, deputy
sheriff, who was there in the tunnel where Roseanne Boylan was
murdered and he was trying to save her life.

(41:01):
He was, you know, I believe he told the other officers there,
I'm police officer. He was trying to help her.
He wanted to give her CPR and then let him and and I think,
you know, they even used some ofthat footage in the January 6th
committee. But they take the audio out so
you can't hear what he is saying.
And this guy has been locked up since, you know since the

(41:23):
beginning pretty much. And his wife's been out here.
Sarah has been out here just fighting for him.
It's it's crazy. It it really is because I, you
know, I really think that he is one of the really good ones.
That's my sense as well, just the things that I've read and
the fact that we've dealt with Sarah a little bit.
It it would be really, really hard to imagine of of another

(41:45):
police officer of any kind somebody in actual in law
enforcement go out and then say I'm going to condone violence
against law enforcement officersbecause of a political thing
that happened. I mean it that the line is not
that flexible for any cop I've ever been.
I've never thought of a cop thatway and there probably are some
out there that are garbage but it's just it's hard to imagine.
So I, you know that's if that's one end of the spectrum what's

(42:06):
the other end of the spectrum look like Well I mean that that
that's that's the the good end of the spectrum and then the bad
spectrum is is is Ryan Stanslow and the and the like you know so
we we've got you know we've got a lot of family family men who
are locked up their their families have lost everything.

(42:27):
In a lot of these situations thewives end up leaving which is
which is very sad because and and I think in a lot of these
cases it's because that they're they're not part of the
community and I think that's where we've seen the suicides
and and these other kind of situations are where the family
is, is not part of the January 6community because no one can

(42:49):
understand what it's like to go through this except other
January 6 families. So why I I think that's why it's
so important for people to come in and and and become a part of
the community. That makes a lot of sense.
I mean that's the same thing with the military families, if
you think about it, if you're not connected to other Military
Wives, if you're not connected to people that are on base and

(43:10):
know what's going on and understand the needs and and
then then you're screwed. You're going to be divorced and
go find somebody else to live with.
But if you can have the support structure of community, then
then you know that that's how itworks and people get along and
they they handle all kinds of difficulties.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so many of these are vets,
it seems like too. It seems like the vets have kind
of know what the what the game is.

(43:31):
Some of them do yeah absolutely we've we've we've definitely
have a lot of veterans and some and some law enforcement
officers. I mean it's it's heavy on that
end for the arrests. It really is.
What do you think the overall game is that is being played?
But you dealt with the FBIA little bit, you've dealt with

(43:52):
the justice system, you've covered a lot of these trials.
Like what? What's the end goal here?
What's the angle? I think the government's angle
is, is to promote as much fear as possible and and this runs
not only on you know on the prosecution side but but I'm I'm

(44:15):
you know you see it in the courtroom from the judges as
well Judge Kelly went on and on in these proud boy sentencings
about about protecting the government which you know I I
couldn't even believe I was hearing that in the courtroom
protect. What does that even mean

(44:37):
exactly? I mean what about we the people,
it's just insane and and that's you know that we had to to set
an example, had to set an example so that people wouldn't
do this again. So I think that's what it's all
about and if you just if you look back at history I mean this

(44:57):
is what they do. I mean it's the the political
weaponization they start puttingtheir their their enemies in
jail and then scaring everybody and you know they they don't
want us to to protest so they'vethey've been quite effective in
that it's I'll tell you it's hard to get people to to show up

(45:18):
for a rally or protest anymore. People are scared to death they
they definitely don't want to doit in DC but you know it's it's
crazy So they as I I kind of gotoff the track at one point but I
but I was starting to tell you the story of you know I've done

(45:40):
all these interviews and so my my my podcast is in everybody's
discovery. Oh yeah that's fun.
Yeah. Yeah it's great.
So I was I was in a trial about 3 weeks ago and he was at lunch
break on the first day and I was.
I was at the Bank of elevators in the in the courtroom going
down for lunch and and the prosecution team walks up behind

(46:00):
me and the prosecutor, I suddenly hear his voice.
He says it's great to see you inperson for the first time, Ms.
Holly. That's weird.
Are you kidding me? That's bizarre.
Yeah. How many hours have they been
pouring over your podcast looking for incriminating
evidence? Exactly and.

(46:22):
That one sound bite that they'regoing to play out of context or
whatever it is they do, Yeah, yeah.
And they were messing with me inthat trial too, because they
didn't actually end up using anyof my my stuff.
But on one of the slides they kept showing up in the top
corner is a little tab open. That's that's the name of my
podcast. Right now, tell people what the

(46:44):
name of your podcast is, becausethey're going to be curious.
They're going to want to go see that.
And I looked at it last night a little bit.
Justice in Jeopardy is my January 6th podcast.
My I'm Sovereign Souls Media. And so my my website is Saab
Souls dot us. And that's where you can find

(47:05):
all my work. But.
I've got your sub stack in the in the show notes so people can
click on that and on the top tabof the sub stack, the main home
page, there's all the links. It looks like if you hit the
website and so on, it should pull those things up I think.
Great. I I I went and played with it
yesterday so soft souls there that's got your Twitter it's got
the the website the YouTube thing and then there's also a
list of of of recent interviews and whatnot.

(47:27):
So folks if you want to see thatthat's at least one central
thing. I always find that if we try to
do you know 10 or 12 different links because I know a lot of us
are are out there in different places it's it's just one link
will drive to all the other links So if you're if you're
curious it's not going to be very hard for you people know
how to use the Internet. I think I trust my audience with
laugh. Go to my website you can pretty
much find links to find me everywhere and and now and and

(47:48):
since since 1776 returns was started that's that's also where
where I write articles. So definitely def back out 1776
returns.com. Yeah, some pretty wild stuff on
there. And is that, is that Sean?
Is that Sean Witsman's thing? He's doing it full time.
That's what he's launched up on,Yes, Yes.

(48:11):
So. So he launched that and Ashton
Ritchie and I are are his main 2writers.
But yeah, Sean Sean's an incredible journalist.
He's he's got a great sense of humor.
He really does. He's really, he's the kind of
guy that would have made it in my friend group.
I always have like a couple different types of friends.
You know, some friends are like drinking a beer and some friends
are like taking a shot and and he's like he's like drinking a

(48:34):
mixed drink. He's strong, but he's got a lot
to say at the same time. And that's always really fun.
His humor is really dark, which matches my sort of look at the
world. And he's very sarcastic and he's
got all this kind of kind of just just wry wit maybe, I don't
know, like folks, I deal with Sean, we we text back and forth
and everything we do it. It it's like texting where

(48:56):
someone has deleted every every three lines.
You know what I mean? Like he assumes that you know a
couple of things and then he says something that didn't get
said. You know, you move.
He jumps forward in the conversation and makes you put
the other stuff in your head. Sometimes it's it's it's clever.
It's exactly, exactly, yeah. He's brilliant.
He's a he's a great friend and and he does, I mean you, you've

(49:16):
got it. You've got to understand that
sense of humor to be friends with him, for sure.
There's a movie called Ronan that I watched.
I don't remember if you ever sawthis.
This is a Ronan was with Robert De Niro and.
Sean Bean was in a couple other really good actors.
European film it is. But I always told people it was
like a regular action movie where they had really smart
writers and then they deleted every other line to make it

(49:38):
really, really weird and interesting.
And so somebody would be like, they were like, he's like, you
ever kill anybody, you know? And then he's like, I heard
someone's feelings once, you know?
It's just like, it's really coolguy talk.
It's smart and it's it's interesting.
And somebody would be like, he would be like we're in the
military and he's like, no, I got this job to the New York
Times and you're like, what? It's just it's clever.

(49:58):
And it's like every time I read Shawn's text back and forth,
that's what it looks like to me.It's just it's like I missed a
line in there that he didn't, no, he didn't write it.
He's just assuming that I know what was the next step.
And then he went two steps further beyond that.
And some of his writing is that way too.
And actually I saw some of that take.
I actually thought that Sean wrote that that article that you
did. And I was actually happy to see
that that's what we were talkingabout here, cuz I thought he was

(50:19):
setting somebody up. When we when we first did the
interview, he said I should talkto you.
And I was like, Oh no, we're going to.
I don't really want to bring people on and hurt their
feelings or expose them and you're the one who's really
exposing things there. And so that's fantastic.
I'm just, I'm psyched to talk toyou and I think it's good.
Can we? Yeah.
Well, I I, I like to say that yet you know it like I said it
was it was a very hard decision to to go ahead and put that

(50:41):
story out because I knew I was going to get you know, it was
not going to go over well with everybody.
But I thought it, I thought it was important to do and and I,
you know, I to be honest, I meanfor people who are suggesting
that that I somehow was doing itfor my own benefit, it makes no
sense because I had to eat crow to to put this out and say you

(51:05):
know, I know you guys know I've been advocating hardcore for
this guy for a year and a half. But but I was.
I was deceived, you know, So youknow, it doesn't benefit me in
any way. But that is the mark of doing
the right thing, right? I mean, that's the, that's the
thing we're not seeing the government do.
It turns out just no ability to take new facts and and and
realize, oh, you know what? I thought it was this thing, but

(51:26):
there's more to it. Yeah, they're willing to just
cover up for each other. I see that too.
I mean, it troubles me to no end.
As someone who worked in there, I feel like they're tarnishing
credibility of people who actually did good work and now
everything is suspect because it's really bad work.
Exactly. Exactly.
It should. This should actually.

(51:47):
Stories like what you just did should actually make you more
legitimate, even if it hurts feelings inside the camp.
And it's one of the reasons why I like Sean when we talk,
because he said I have a very nuanced view of things.
There is no black and white in this.
There's some good guys, there's some bad guys, there's some sort
of good guys, there's some sort of bad guys that did some good
things. You know, like life is.
It's just not, it's not headlines.

(52:08):
We don't live in headline world.Yeah.
And I think so many people thinkthat there's gonna be we're
gonna figure it out I I've got I've figured it out.
You know this this is what it was that day or this is what it
was. No, no.
This was just a a huge pot of ofcraziness.

(52:29):
I mean we had so many different things going on, you know, so
many different people coming from so many different angles.
You know, we we had undercovers from from every single alphabet
soup that you can imagine and and and we had government, you
know, we had Pelosi doing stuff and Pence doing stuff.
I mean I mean they were all involved and I see the same

(52:53):
thing from from the defendants II actually I work I I work for
John Pierce law as well and and so I so I get to see a lot of
this from from the inside from the from the legal side too and
and all these defendants they they think they've found the
magic bullet that's going to wintheir case you know and that
there is going to be the one andit's not like that it it doesn't

(53:18):
work that way at all. Everybody.
I I call it like an idolatry almost.
It's it's like one person is going to save US1.
Narrative is going to be that's the the the threat of truth that
weaves everything together. There's a movie.
This is another movie I used to watch a lot of detective movies
and one of them is called Daryl Zero or it's called 0 effect.
It's about a guy named 00. Nobody knows it but it's it was
the precursor to the show House House MD which is based on

(53:41):
Sherlock Holmes okay and and BenStiller is kind of the the
Watson character. He's the assistant and he's
yelling at Bill Pullman, who plays the main character.
And he goes it's not a world of good guys and bad guys it's just
a bunch of guys and and I alwayshear that bouncing around in my
head when people tell me it's like I figured it out.
I've I've cracked the case. The case is not crackable

(54:03):
because it's not because you're because it's so many there's a
million cases and and and everybody had a different story
going in there And and I think that's what's really important
about what you've been revealingand and more importantly it's
what's important about the way that you're willing to to say
look this was a con and we can all be conned.
I think that's really important for journalists too.
Yeah. Yeah.

(54:24):
And you know, I think it is important to to remember that
when it comes down to it, we're talking about people whose
constitutional rights have been infringed and and if we let this
go on, you know, they they're coming for us all.
I I've been saying that for the past two years and people don't

(54:44):
understand even if you're, even if you're you know you've got
terrible TDs and and and you just think it was an
insurrection, whatever. If you don't see that that this
is, that there's political weaponization going on and that
these people really are political hostages and that and
that Merrick Garland just, you know, it's crazy that he's still

(55:05):
going on with this almost three years later.
He's still doing this. You know, you're in for a world
of hurt going forward because you know, they they are.
They're coming for us all. There's an energy in this
country on both sides right now that is it's it's barely
bridled. So do you mind prognosticating a

(55:28):
little bit? I'm going to throw the scenario
out and you tell me how it how it ends because I think there's
only a couple of ways as this thing goes in the next little
bit. One of them is that Trump runs
the primary and he doesn't win the the general.
How does that look in America? Well, I I'm afraid he's going
to. He's going to win from inside
prison. Certainly a possibility, but

(55:52):
real, Yeah, we're kind of going,but if he wins the primary and
doesn't win the general, then you know, I I don't know what
we're going to do. Can anybody on the on the
political right or the people that are in the the J6 camp can
they accept that that's a legitimate loss you think I

(56:14):
don't think most of America who plans to vote for Trump can will
consider that that that's even apossibility.
I I think at that point that youknow I think we're going to have
some people who just who just give up and give in and they're
like okay. You know we completely lost our
country. There's nothing we can do And
then you know I'm not sure if we're going to have people who

(56:35):
go as far as taking to arms. I mean you know what what's this
going to look like? I I really don't know.
So then the next possibility is that he doesn't win the primary
and of course isn't in the general.
And then what? And.
That may because he's in a jail cell too.
I think that's the possibility that that happens.
Yeah. So I, you know, I I really think

(56:55):
if if we can't win in 2024 then then then I think we have lost
our country. I really do.
Okay. And then here's the thing that I
think is also troubling because I I look at all this stuff, I'm
not. A Trump guy, although he got my
vote and the second time around for sure and you know he would
get my vote out of anybody, is better than what we got going
right now. He's just not somebody that I

(57:16):
see is the solution to all thesethings.
Mostly I just don't like really old people in office at this
point, but we're in kind of thisunusual circumstance.
So imagine Trump wins the primary, wins the general.
And what happens to this energy that has been steamrolling
people from the other side and also the mechanisms of
government that are part of it? Yeah, I'm not sure what's going

(57:38):
to happen with the other side ifwe go that direction because
they are, they are already so, so upset.
They're so triggered. They're so to have him back in
the office, which is, you know, you know, I think I think we do,
we do have selections, not elections.
And and I kind of feel like the powers that be are going to are

(58:02):
going to put in a Republican somehow.
I think that I think that's their plan and I think they're
kind of sticking different people in a little bit that I
think they see that that this chances is not going to be the
one. So they they just keep trying
different people. You know, you'll have pins come

(58:23):
out and talk. I mean that's that's got to be
the biggest joke in the world. But Oh my gosh.
And you know, so I I think that they are going to try to make it
go in that direction, but they're going to do everything
they can to make sure it's not Trump.
And and that's, you know, that'swhy they're, that's why they've

(58:45):
indicted them. That's why they're going after
him, because they're going to doeverything they can to keep him
out of office. So I I just don't know.
It's just such a bizarre, volatile time.
And then, of course, my my buddies tell me that there's a
real possibility that we have noelection at all.
That it just that they shut it down for some reason.

(59:07):
Yeah. Yeah.
Are people in the the JSIP JSIX camp talking about these
potential forks in the road in front of them and what that
might mean for them? No, I, you know, I don't know
that that we've we've had a lot of talk about that.
But I think it's it's something that we do need to talk about
for sure. Because all those outcomes are

(59:30):
going to have, they're going to have big implications for all
their cases. I think, yeah, that that's
really I I think most people have have accepted the the
reality that that's really the only way that that we're going
to get these people out. You know, we, we know we can't
win in the courtroom. And I I implore people to come
sit in on these trials because these courtrooms are empty.

(59:52):
I mean, even even for the Proud Boys, the the courtroom is not
full. It's it's crazy.
I mean these these are historical events.
And play a huge role in in what our future looks like and and
people are not. You know, all you have to do is
come to the courthouse, come on in there and listen because it
it's crazy. I mean the the jury selection,

(01:00:15):
wow, that's that's crazy. I'll tell you one story.
I was sitting through a jury selection for that that went on
for a couple of days and you know it was it was 11 candidate
after another coming up to the stand and and the the judge
going through the the barge or the questioning you know they

(01:00:39):
would she would say you know didyou live or work near the
capitol on on January 6th. And and most of them yes.
And these people all they all work for the government because
that's who lives in DC so we've got Homeland Security we we've
had a AJ6 federal prosecutor that they tried to sneak on but

(01:01:02):
anyway they they were coming up to the same one after another
and and they'll openly admit I I'm I'm far left-leaning
politically and and the judges get get so frustrated that they
can't find anybody that that might be suitable to sit on this
jury so they start trying to talk him into it.
You you can you can overlook that can't you.
You can you can look beyond yourpolitical feelings and and can't

(01:01:24):
you. You can.
I know you can So so this was going on one after and and then
and then A and they're and they're mostly like, you know
you've got the the young white liberals and you've got the
older white liberals. And then and then we had a a
woman come to the stand. She was a black woman I would

(01:01:44):
guess she was probably in her early 60s and and the judge says
you know did you live or or or work near the Capitol on January
6th. And and she says, she says,
well, yes, I I was there and thejudge said what what were you
doing there? And she said, well, I was there
to use my free speech to protestagainst a stolen election.

(01:02:12):
The judge was just in shock, youknow, so because they, she had
let so many other, you know, politically far leaning left
people on, she had to allow thiswoman to, to be on the jury.
But of course, the the government struck her down.
You know, I think that was theirfirst strike.
Yeah. No, she's not.

(01:02:32):
But if she she exited the courtroom and she walked by us
in the gallery and we all said God bless you and and the
prosecutor, I mean if you use the word God in these
courtrooms, they flip out and and we said it quietly just as
she walked by us. But the the prosecutor is you
know, oh your Honor, you know they're talking to the jury and

(01:02:53):
so the the judge had to you knowclear the rules that that we
couldn't tamper with the with the jury.
Yeah, stop tampering with the jury.
With a basic blessing. That happens for everybody who
sneezes in America. Even people that don't believe
in God say that. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah, we are.

(01:03:14):
So yeah, it's in these, in thesetrials.
And you know, I think everyone should do it.
Well, if you're in the area, definitely make a take a day.
It's a vacation that you will probably be able to see
something that you can tell yourgrandkids about, how strange it
is, I'm sure speaking about being in the courtroom, you were
in the courtroom yesterday with with Owen.

(01:03:35):
Is that is that true? I I was not in the courtroom.
I I arrived when he was done andhe was outside giving a presser
right when I right when I walkedup.
So I I'm going to put something out today that that's that I did
yesterday on that that was that was fantastic.
I mean he stood out there and talked to us for like an hour.

(01:03:56):
But you know, he said what I've been saying this whole time is
these are first amendments cases, every single one of them.
And his absolutely is because they have been listening to
everything he said for the past five years, every word that he
has said. And they, you know, he didn't

(01:04:16):
even go inside and they're giving him 60 days.
I mean, you know, he stood out there with Alex Jones, who was
doing the most, most of the talking, who was telling people
not to go inside. And they're, they're going after
him. They're going after him hard.
Did you hear what Alex was saying for all of it, or was
that anywhere near where you guys were at?

(01:04:39):
No, no, I was not near Alex Jones on that day, so I didn't
hear what he was saying. But from what I've heard, that's
what he was saying from other people who have listened to him.
He was telling people not to go inside.
Yeah, it's crazy. I I called Owen yesterday and
gave him my, you know, if there's anything we can do to

(01:05:00):
help him, I want to. I don't know what it'll be, but
it it is amazing to think that we are going to jail
journalists. And he would not be the first
one. I mean, obviously Sean went to,
you know, had to had to plead guilty and a lot of these guys
have have gone through, you know, people who were there for
professional purposes who did ordidn't, you know, people who
didn't even into the building were getting hit with it.
And it seemed like Steve Baker'sstory to me.

(01:05:22):
I don't know. I'm sure you know of Steve
Baker. His story is it just depends on
how you covered it. If you were if you put it out
there and said the the terrible awful no good very bad Trump
Republicans were there, then your story is okay and your
coverage is fine and if you didn't then they come after you.
To me that's shocking that I I keep telling people this and
it's the it's a sound bite but it it's it rings really true.

(01:05:43):
The America that I grew up in would invade the America I live
in. Like when?
When did we flip over and becomea tyrannical lunatic?
Fringe government that is actinglike a Banana Republic when you
think that turnover was you knowI I think COVID moved it along

(01:06:04):
pretty quickly to be honest. But but just even Trump coming
into office I I I think when when Hillary didn't win they
they started panicking and they're like let's let's turn
this up let's put the the pedal to the floor.
We got to, we got to move this forward.

(01:06:25):
It's that may be the case. I think people that tell me
about the FBI say 20/15/2016 wasa breaking point and of course I
came in at 2016. So what do I know?
All all I knew was what was going on and they'd already
they'd already decided to to surveil a presidential campaign
and lie on a FISA application. So it's it's such a crazy
thought coming up, you know respecting an organization,

(01:06:46):
going to work for it, then getting inside of it and seeing
it being the opposite. I want to ask one more question,
so maybe kind of a tough one to to dig into.
Jake Lang has reached out to me in the same way that you were
talking about multiple differentphone numbers, text messages
from not the same phone, and apparently does a podcast from
inside the DC jail. You have a read on what Jake
Lang's about that you're willingto talk to.

(01:07:09):
No comment. That makes as much sense as
anything else. I'll comment on it on my
thoughts later then that'll be fine.
That's not, that's not my my concern, but I did, yeah, it
says what it is. All right, folks, I don't want
to dig any deeper and I definitely don't want to put you
in the hole with the people thatyou're reporting on.
If you have interest in people who are defending themselves
against J6 from the spectrum that goes from bad and nefarious

(01:07:31):
actors grifting a lot of money to people who are probably some
of the worst political prisonersin the United States at this
point, you can definitely check out Mel stuff.
And her things are are down. Her social and her website are
down in our show notes. I'm pointing down where you
can't see Mel, but that's what I'm doing.
To where the show notes are, anything that you'd like to
leave as a parting message for people as A and do you have any

(01:07:53):
hope that you've seen coming outof any of this?
I think one of the biggest struggles we have is being able
to fund this. The left just seems to have as
much money as they need. You know, as we saw when they
were, when they were bailing people out who were who were

(01:08:13):
just getting, you know a slap onthe wrist and a $50 ticket.
But these these these cases are not they're not easy to to fight
and and they take a lot of time and and we've got quite a few
not as many as we need attorneyswho are really fighting hard and

(01:08:34):
who are doing this for you know pretty much nothing I mean
barely barely getting by you know taking on so many cases and
we really do need help on that end to to fight these in the
courtroom because because even if even if we're not going to
win these you know cases that we've got right now we I think

(01:08:55):
we have a really good chance of of winning them in appeals and
some of these are going to have to go all the way to the Supreme
Court. So you know please do donate to
help these these these attorneysthese these law firms and and
you can either go to directly totheir Gibson goes and you can

(01:09:18):
you can find links to those. There should be a link on my
website I think to to where you can find some of those but just
go to Gibson go and and search for it for January 6th or if you
you know if you watch my episodes I always link their
gives and goes and these are to to help their their legal funds
and and as well I mean these people they're they're losing

(01:09:41):
everything they they're having ahard time just keeping you know
a roof over their heads for their families back home and and
food in the pantry and you can also go to nclu.org and you can
you can give their directly to to the John Pierce law fund to
to help us keep this going. So make sure I gave that right.

(01:10:05):
I think it's done NCLU. You said nclu.org, nclu.org.
So, kind of like ACLU, but not, yeah, NCLU.
But not, not interested in left wing fascism.
Exactly, exactly or whatever it is.
They are the national the law union, national constitutional

(01:10:27):
law union. Okay, Yeah, Just get involved,
get involved. I mean, because like I like I
said, they're, they're coming for us all.
So if if we're not fighting for these people, you know, it's
it's going to be hard in the long run.
It is going to be hard I think either way, but I appreciate
that you're out there reporting on it.
I appreciate that you joined us this morning to speak with us

(01:10:48):
and sorry we had some tech difficulties but I'm glad we
worked out. I like this phone option too as
a backup. This is the audio is great and I
think people can can walk away and hear exactly what you had to
say and. You know, I could do it that way
too. In fact, I I'm not always sure
why I have to have a video podcast, but it is a thing out
there and it definitely gives usaccess to RUBBLE.
So thanks for joining us people.You can support Mel.

(01:11:09):
And yeah, thanks for all you do and and and thanks for doing the
right thing. And I I really appreciate you
having me on. It's it's quite an honor, Kyle.
Well, it's my pleasure. Thanks for thanks for making the
time. We will have more guests like
this. Folks, if you liked what you
heard, by all means share this stuff.
Make sure you are liking it on Rumble.
That is my new job. I say things like that instead

(01:11:29):
of telling people that I come from the FBI.
It's kind of a weird world that I live in here, but we do stream
the show live from Liberty Hill,TX at 9:30 Eastern Time, 8:30
Central. It is a live show, so sometimes
it has all the fun of a live show, which is to say connection
issues. Thanks for sticking around for
all of that folks. You can follow me on on Twitter
at Kyle Serafin or. You can go to the link in our

(01:11:51):
description and leave us a 5 star review on Apple, and we
really appreciate when you guys do.
This one's review comes in from Kay Mage saying Awesome patriot
Five star. Kyle, thank you for all you're
doing to point out the false idols of this world and help
redirect us to the truth. We all need to educate our
friends who are lost in the world and to see the bigger

(01:12:12):
meanings of life. And community based in God.
Well, I 100% agree with that andI am very grateful that you
liked our idolatry episode. It's it's something we should
all be real cautious of. And people like Gerritel Boyle
have been out there keeping me honest and aware and paying
attention to the biblical significance of the spiritual
battle that I think we're all in.
And people like Mel Halle, my guest today, are in that

(01:12:33):
spiritual battle. They're out there trying to give
you the truth. You got to figure it out for
yourself. You got to go out there and read
and listen to what what is beingsaid and make some good
discerning things and pray abouthim for sure.
Folks, you can follow this show on the the video channel which
is rumble.com/kyle Serafin or you can share it on Apple,
Spotify, iHeartRadio and so on and by all means leave us a 5
star review. We will read yours.
I want to say thanks to the hardwork of Ryan Matta who was out

(01:12:56):
there working in the background making sure this thing was
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If you want to get information, go to Catholic Vote.
If you want to get a Tumblr or ahard cooler or something like
that, check out Patriot coolers.If you want that merch, Kyle.
I'm sorry, it's the space. It's the Dash suspendables.com.
You can tell that I'm starting to glitch too.
I might have some Mitch McConnell in me today.

(01:13:17):
Thedashsuspendables.com for Gerda Boyle stuff and it
supports the suspendables Folks,we will see you again tomorrow.
Tomorrow is Thursday, so that means I'm going to be talking to
Mike Benz about the CIA getting involved in the messaging
campaigns and CIA cutouts. Don't miss that.
Definitely stick around for MikeBenz tomorrow.
And until then, I hope you have a wonderful day and y'all be

(01:13:37):
safe. Thanks for listening to The Kyle
Seraphin Show streamed live Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays
on rumble.com/kyle Seraphin. Follow Kyle on Twitter and True
Social at Kyle Seraphin.