October 24, 2024 • 49 mins
Andy Goram sits down with Kristina Vaneva, author of Beyond Employee Engagement, to explore how businesses can go beyond traditional employee engagement strategies to build lifelong employee advocates. Kristina shares actionable insights on how to create an effective employee advocate programme that seamlessly integrates into every stage of the employee journey—from onboarding to career development and beyond.
Discover the benefits of empowering your team to become authentic employee advocates and how a well-structured employee advocacy program can boost brand loyalty and trust. Learn the steps to build a program that works, the challenges you'll face, and the long-term impact advocacy can have on both your company and your employees. If you're looking to strengthen your employee engagement efforts and foster genuine loyalty, this episode is packed with valuable tips that can transform your approach.
Tune in to learn how to create a culture where your people don’t just work for you—they work with you, promoting your brand long after they’ve moved on.
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Key Takeaways- True employee advocacy is rooted in genuine employee engagement
- Successful employee advocacy requires more than just goodwill
- For an employee advocate programme to thrive, leaders must actively buy in and commit to it
- Employee advocacy doesn’t have to end when employees leave the company
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Key MomentsThe key moments in this episode are:
00:01:10 - What is Employee Advocacy? Why Does It Matter? 00:08:23 - The Benefits of Employee Advocate Programmes for Businesses 00:09:04 - How to Build an Effective Employee Advocate Programme 00:25:11 - Employee Engagement and Its Role in Advocacy 00:35:41 - Challenges in Building an Employee Advocate Programme 00:28:26 - Long-Term Benefits of Employee Advocates After They Leave 00:44:41 - Sticky Notes & Close
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Join The Conversation Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here Follow the Podcast on Instagram here Follow the Podcast on Twitter here Follow the Podcast on Facebook here Check out the Bizjuicer website here Get a free consultation with Andy here Check out the Bizjuicer blog here Download the podcast here ----more---- Useful Links Follow Kristina Vaneva on LinkedIn here Find Kristina's website here Get Beyond Engagement here Visit Kristina's YouTube Channel here ----more---- Full Episode TranscriptGet the full transcript of the episode here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Hello and welcome to Sticky from the Inside, the employee engagement podcast that looks at how to build stickier, competition smashing, consistently successful organisations from the inside out.
I'm your host Andy Goram and I'm on a mission to help more businesses turn the lights on behind the eyes of their employees, light the fires within them and create tonnes more success for everyone.
(00:39):
This podcast is for all those who believe that's something worth going after and would like a little help and guidance in achieving that.
Each episode we dive into the topics that can help create what I call stickier businesses, the sort of businesses where people thrive and love to work and where more customers stay with you and recommend you to others because they love what you do and why you do it.
(01:03):
So if you want to take the tricky out of being sticky, listen on.
Okay then, imagine a workplace where your employees aren't just there to do a job, they believe in the mission of the business so deeply that they give their best effort and ideas day in and day out with passion and purpose.
(01:26):
They're not just working for you, they're working with you as true partners in success.
And here's the best part, even when they move on to pursue new opportunities, they continue to advocate for your company, sharing their positive experiences, promoting your brand and championing your values wherever they go.
(01:47):
Now, what does it take to create that kind of culture, to foster a sense of loyalty so deep that your people become lifelong advocates, not just because they have to, but because they want to.
So today, we're exploring how to turn that vision into reality.
Specifically, we're diving into the process of building an employee advocacy program that doesn't just drive brand awareness, but one that weaves its way into every aspect of the employee experience.
(02:18):
I'm delighted today to be joined by Kristina Vaneva, a true expert in the world of employee experience and author of the book, Beyond Employee Engagement.
Kristina will, I hope, walk us through the nuts and bolts of creating a program that transforms employees into those lifelong advocates.
We'll explore how advocacy programs integrate into the entire employee journey from onboarding to development, to when they leave, and how it benefits not just the company's brand, but the personal brands of the employees associated with the system too.
(02:55):
In a world where we trust people more than we trust advertising, your employees are your most valuable ambassadors.
And if you can harness that energy, the benefits can be extraordinary, not only for your employer brand, but for the personal and professional growth and reputation of your people too.
So, whether you're looking to strengthen your brand's voice, build deeper loyalty, or empower your employees to become true ambassadors, I hope this episode will be packed with insights that can change the way you think about employee experience.
(03:30):
Welcome to the show, Kristina.
Thank you so much.
I love the sound of your voice.
I love, if I ever need to do a voiceover, I'm definitely not going to get it from AI.
I'm going to reach out to you.
It's just, it's got this really nice undertone to it.
And I love the way you pronounce your words.
(03:54):
It's just, ah, it's perfect.
Great for a podcast, by the way.
Wow.
Oh, yeah.
Well, let's just do the podcast.
Let's just sit here and get flattering comments all day.
Lovely to have you here.
I am really curious about this, this chat today around advocacy, or advocate programs, because we've used the word advocacy loads in employee engagement, and all related to net promoter scores and all that kind of good stuff.
(04:21):
But we're talking about something a bit different today, which I'm really looking forward to.
But before we get stuck into all of that, Kristina, do me a little favor, give us a bit of a background into you, what you do, what you're up to now, all that kind of good stuff.
Very exciting.
Thank you, first of all, for having me on your lovely show.
(04:42):
I'm very excited to be able to share the opportunity or to take this opportunity to share a little bit about what I'm passionate about.
So for the last, I would say six, almost 17 years, I have spent and really
dedicated my career, my professional experience, my studies to this topic, which is the topic of
(05:04):
employee engagement, employee experience, and how do we create a journey for employees, such a
journey that would be conducive to, of course, their personal happiness, but also conducive to
them going above and beyond and delivering an amazing experience for guests, which of course
(05:25):
turns into an incredible experience for investors as well.
And it builds loyalty, it builds brand loyalty.
But more importantly, and I talk about it in my book, shameless promotion.
More importantly, how this experience that companies build together with their employees, how does this experience affect the employees, families, their loved ones, their neighbors, their communities, and then society in general.
(06:05):
So I have spent a long time in the UAE, in Dubai, particularly, I've been here, where I am in Dubai right now for 16 and a half years.
But my work with communication and with HR started a little bit before that.
I lived in Malta before that, I grew up in Greece, so I've kind of lived in several countries and continents.
(06:29):
I spent my childhood in Libya.
I'm Bulgarian, by the way, by origin and by passport, but I only lived there for five years.
So I grew up in Libya, went to boarding school and school in Greece and Malta.
And I spent about 13 years at Atlantis, Atlantis Resorts, where I would say a big part of my employee engagement, where my passion for employee engagement was born and developed.
(06:59):
And really, the company had given me the opportunity to flourish and to soar and to use my creativity and create a culture, a strategy and a culture in a company that were during a period where employee engagement really wasn't a thing.
(07:22):
You know, especially in this region, there were very few vacancies around that topic, let alone, you know, managers and leaders really being coached and taught about the importance of employee engagement.
So I would consider myself probably a maverick that I can call myself a maverick, right?
(07:49):
And I think because I'm so passionate about it, it really helps to really create and consult because I currently consult companies on how to create an extraordinary employee experience.
Because my passion comes through quite authentically.
(08:10):
I think that that gives me an extra edge over people that maybe have just studied it in the last few years, because since the pandemic, it's really become a popular profession.
Sure.
And we're going to tap into that passion, I'm sure today, as we sort of get stuck in.
I mean, what a wonderfully exotic and varied background you have, Kristina, right?
(08:35):
So I think that's going to shine through today.
Now we're going to talk about employee advocacy, or employee advocate programs.
I mean, that's maybe a split definition itself.
But let's go back to brass tacks here.
When we think of a genuine employee advocate, what does that person look like to you?
(08:59):
And how does being an advocate go beyond just promoting the company?
Love that question.
So a genuine advocate is obviously someone who's authentic, you know, someone who's not feeling pressured or paid to talk about the company.
There's, there's a model that Concentric uses for employee engagement.
(09:22):
And they do their employee engagement survey with, you know, several questions, like 40 plus questions.
But the really six important questions in their formula to measure engagement is say, stay and strive questions.
And those are say questions, do employees say good things about your company?
Do they strive?
(09:42):
And do they, so do they go above and beyond?
And then do they stay in your company?
Are they loyal?
Do they stick around or they want to leave after a year or two?
So the say questions are really important, because you measure to what degree the
employees really want to authentically come out and talk about the company, whether it's on social
(10:04):
media, whether it's at a conference, whether it's, you know, at a dinner party, employees are
advocates, positive or negative ones, of course, at any occasion, it doesn't need to be, you know, when
we talk about employee advocacy programs, a lot of people think about, you know, platforms and
technology and creating, or pre creating content that people can post on their social media, of
(10:41):
instance, for instance, or when if you're presenting something on stage, or you're talking about your
company during a, like, if you're up for an award, and you're presenting about your company, these
are all ways to advocate positively, of course, hopefully, about the organization.
(11:03):
If you're running a recruitment fair, for example, if you're looking for fresh graduates, or interns, management trainees, the way you talk about your company there, as a representative of that company is also part of employee advocacy.
So I want to kind of make that clear that, you know, oftentimes, we want to refer back to technology.
(11:25):
And we want to say, Oh, yeah, we would all we don't have a budget for this program, or it requires a lot of training, people don't have time to post.
It's not just posting the way you talk, what you say and what you don't say.
I think this is what's going to be interesting about this conversation today.
Because often, employee advocacy is limited to would you recommend this place to friends and family.
(11:52):
And what we're trying to go here with this today's conversation is a bit deeper into how can we maybe corral or orchestrate a program that captures the very essence of this advocacy, but comes from having an employee experience where this promotion of the business and the people that work there just comes naturally, right, it comes authentically, it comes willingly.
(12:16):
But maybe not everybody is is on the same page when we think about this corralling, right, or this this forming of a program.
So in your mind, what is an employee advocate program?
Kristina, what's that?
So of course, let's start off with the presumption that the employee has now been hired into the company, and he or she or they have now begun their first day.
(12:47):
How does that actually, let's take it a step back.
They've been contacted by the recruitment team or the talent acquisition team.
And their journey has now become a little bit more real, and a little bit more tangible.
So how, how are the questions asked?
(13:08):
What questions are asked?
How does the recruiter or the hiring manager help you feel?
You can already start planning the employee experience and the employee advocates advocacy from that moment onwards.
So by training your HR team, by training the team that is in charge of potentially reaching out, it could be even the recruiters, the way a recruitment company, if you're using head hunters, the way a recruitment company talks about your company, right?
(13:43):
Because oftentimes they say, Oh, this is a great company with with a interesting open culture, you have, you know, flexibility in the workplace, you know, so they, they have a little bit of a spiel about how, how to promote your company.
So you can already start from there by preparing those little tiny but crucial steps in the way that an employee feels as they're joining.
(14:07):
So even in the very start of your employee experience journey that you're mapping out, right?
You're already seeding the fact that you would encourage employees to talk openly about the company, what it does, what it stands for all this stuff right from the get go.
Absolutely.
And, you know, a lot of the times people are unsure about whether they can post on social media, what they can post, when they can post, what are the brand guidelines.
(14:39):
So an employee advocacy program needs to make this super easy for new joiners.
So I have a few steps that I've put together and that I really like to follow.
And I think they're quite sequential.
And the steps are crucial when it comes to creating such a program.
And first and foremost, of course, you you want you need to want to do it.
(15:00):
And to have as a company I'm talking about in general, you need to either have a person doing it or a department or if you're working on a global or regional scale, perhaps volunteers in different countries, and to help to build that team of brand ambassadors together that will take take the employee advocacy journey on a real journey.
(15:24):
So once you have someone responsible for that, there is someone that's accountable, someone that's really motivated, and ideally, they must know what they're doing as well.
But I've been in situations where people didn't really know what they were doing, they were winging it, but because of their, their passion and their love for the company, they created some outstanding employee advocacy programs.
(15:48):
So the person themselves or the department themselves that are taking care of this important part of the employee experience must be engaged, let's put it that way.
You start, so that's the first step.
And then the second step, of course, is to put together policies to put together guidelines training on, first of all, what is the what does it mean?
(16:13):
You know, what is this employee advocacy?
Who can participate in it?
How often can they?
Why should they participate?
You know, you answer all the who, what, when, where, why questions.
And then you have to create obviously, policies around all the questions that people ask, you know, sometimes they're concerned with, you know, what they've posted, sometimes marketing reaches out to them and says, this is completely against their brand guidelines.
(16:39):
So many times people have been kind of burned and they just prefer not to post anything.
So ideally, I'm talking about if you're working in a company where, where things are not confidential.
You know, when we're talking about a company or an organization that's open and has customers that that really want to hear about what the what the organization is doing, that's when when an employee advocacy program really works well.
(17:08):
So create that culture where people feel safe and they feel well-trained to communicate and to promote the company.
The third one is get the culture right.
And this is something that I always talk about.
If you create a company or an organizational culture where people feel, first of all, proud of their company, and second of all, proud of the work they do, authentic, recognized, rewarded, the company's taking care of their well being.
(17:40):
And I'm not talking about necessarily it has to be something super expensive and, and super big and, and, oh, it's gonna take us a year to build it.
I'm talking about small steps.
If you're starting off, you know.
So create that culture where people will want to share, they'll want to talk about the company, they'll want to tell people where they work and what they do.
(18:04):
And, and, by the way, that's, that's a huge part of a sustainable and ongoing.
100%.
We've got 104 other episodes of this podcast, you might want to listen to, to hit item three, which is get the culture right, because that's huge, right?
(18:25):
It's crucial.
And, you know, culture is evolving.
And it's like a living organism.
The minute you stop paying attention to it, it starts getting sick or, you know, something infected.
Because we're people, right?
And people change, leadership changes.
(18:45):
So the company has to always be on, on the top of your list.
It has to be done intentionally.
Fourth one is get leadership buy-in, but really true buy-in.
So help them understand what is in it for them, first of all.
So how can they become thought leaders?
How can their personal brands flourish?
(19:08):
And second of all, how does this help the company?
Once you've got the leaders buy-in, I think this is a no brainer.
Once you have them also using the advocacy program, whether it's a platform or whether they're just simply sharing, you know, information on social media, I think people in general start to feel a little bit more comfortable.
(19:31):
Because if your DM is doing it, then, you know, why can't I do it?
And you keep saying, using the advocacy program.
And you've mentioned platforms and bits and pieces before.
What does this look like?
When you're going to a prospective client, and you utter the words, oh, yeah, let's build an employee advocacy program, and they look at you with a blank face and go, well, what is that, Kristina?
(19:58):
So it's very core.
What are we talking about here?
So if you're looking at it from it's a little bit of a marketing, I would say, tactic in a positive way, of course.
So if you're looking at it from a marketing perspective, you're looking at what are the pillars?
What are what is the information that you want to communicate out there?
(20:19):
So do you want do you have pillars that are talking about, you know, employment, so join the company because ABC?
Or do you have another pillar that talks about why your company is the best or amongst the best.
So you create your different pillars you create with topics, you create your personas, you know, who are those messages going out to you know, who are you trying to target?
(20:45):
And then you start with either doing it through a platform, you create the content, of course, I would strongly advise at least a month ahead, before you have even launched the program to have content in this platform, or in a common folder that people can often refer to.
(21:08):
And if you don't, let's say worst case scenario, you don't have a platform because there's no budget for it.
You don't have time to really create so much content specifically for people.
If you have employee engagement activities, or a social calendar, or if you have, if your company is up for an award, or they have just launched a new product, or they've opened a new, if we're talking about, for example, hospitality, they've opened a new restaurant, there's always some information that is, you know, worth sharing.
(21:45):
And if you have that
kind of culture, where the internal communications team is always making this information readily available, with images or videos, you can even
start off your employee advocacy program by saying, Guys, we're going to share this newsletter or stuff on the intranet on a daily basis, weekly
(22:05):
basis, help us to promote it, or we're going to share it on our Facebook or Instagram page, or on our LinkedIn page, help us by resharing it, or
help us by taking bits and pieces, repurposing it, making it your own, we will provide you the pictures, just help us spread the news.
So it's just a resource platform where employees who feel inclined to promote the company, its values, what it's up to, to its own network, can get resources that I don't know, fit the brand match up, but is easy for them to get hold of, I guess, on the other side, they can create their own stuff, though, right?
(22:44):
I mean, as programs evolve, that's what you want organic stuff.
This is actually even better than people relying on your content.
Because once you have people or once you have employees creating their own stuff, you know that they're, they're engaged, they're motivated, they're going to be there promoting your company, promoting yourselves at the same time building their own brand name, their image, their reputation.
(23:11):
Of course, this is, this is the biggest reason why employees should be encouraged to participate in a program.
It's not, it's not a cheap and, and free way of promoting your company.
But it's a way to make sure that the people within your company look like subject matter experts, no matter what level they're on.
(23:31):
Right?
Absolutely.
Otherwise, it feels disingenuous and can will be seen straight through.
And I interrupted you taking us through the steps.
I think you've got step four.
So I think it was a good interruption because it added value to what I was saying and what I'll continue talking about.
Okay, cool.
(23:51):
So once you have the buy in the leadership, the communication, the policies established, you've reached out to, you know, people that you think might be begin to be your first cheerleaders.
So you build your brand ambassador team, you might start off with, I'm just saying, you know, random numbers here, but you might, depending on how large your company is, medium sized enterprise, you might want to start off with, you know, first five people, 10, make sure that you grow it to a number consistently, and sustainably, and have a number that you want to reach.
(24:28):
But let's say you want to reach 100 people over one year.
But do not limit it.
Because what you think is possible with 100 people, you know, maybe the rest of the entire organization, you'll never have 100% participation.
But let's say another 200 within the same year want to, you know, jump on the bandwagon, and they really feel proud and engaged with what they're doing and what their company is doing.
(24:57):
And they want to support this employee advocacy program and strategy.
So what I'm saying is have a number in mind, but always be open to this number can and should grow beyond your expectations.
And how do you go around encouraging participation without it feeling forced when you're thinking about those sort of numbers?
(25:20):
Kristina, tell me about that.
I know, I love this question.
So there's a company that I mentioned in my book, it's called the company is called Innovisor.
And they have created this 3% rule.
And this 3% rule refers to 3% of your company are the informal communicators or influencers within the company.
(25:41):
So if you have your internal comms team, if you have your leadership team, your managers, all those are expected to be communicators, right?
Officially, but unofficially, there are 3%.
And so this company has devised a way to identify who these 3% are, because ideally, they should be on your side.
(26:04):
Because some of these 3% people could be negative influencers, right?
So not everything, not everyone will be positive.
And you want to turn those negatives or those people that are a little bit disgruntled, or they don't believe in what you're doing, or what the company is doing.
You want to turn them into supporters.
(26:25):
Of course, that's not always possible with everyone.
But there's a way to identify these informal influencers that have so much power over the way that the company is evolving from a culture perspective.
And what is happening when no one's looking and when no one's purposely listening?
(26:46):
And, you know, what's happening from the back end of the company?
So I would say, of course, reach out, first of all, initially to people who you believe are engaged, who will be interested, who will be good at that.
And those that already do it, you know, promote, go out there on social media, go to networking events, you already, if you're within the HR team, and you have a good, I would say pulse on the organization, you would already know some of these people.
(27:22):
And then if you don't, then start to know them.
Because that's, that's a crucial aspect of HR, right?
Get to know who your potential cheerleaders can be.
And then, of course, communicate the importance of the program, or the strategy, or that this is going to become part of the culture from now on, to the whole organization, have some mini workshops, have some focus groups, help people feel
(27:49):
involved, and included in this program, whether it's from the beginning, or let's say from, let's, let's say the third or fourth step into the program, but but really help people feel engaged from from the get go, of course, you will have those that don't want to post anything that are introverts that don't really go to networking events or career fairs, or anything out there in the open, except, of course, their
(28:18):
families and their communities, which, again, is crucial.
So you won't have everyone on the bandwagon of the Employee Advocacy Program.
But something I love doing is gamifying, reward and recognize, rewarding and recognizing and celebrating wins.
So talking about what's in it for them.
(28:41):
That's, I think that's the first and foremost, crucial aspect of getting people to participate in the program.
Talk about show them, of course, people that have been brand advocates in other companies, what it's done for their career, how it looks internally.
(29:02):
Really, what's in it for me?
Why should I do it?
And then give me the tools, empower me with the tools that I need to make you successful.
Sure.
I'm keen to see if we can finish your steps to building this program.
How far have we got?
And we've got four more steps.
(29:23):
Four more steps.
So the reward, recognize, gamify and celebrate, that's crucial when it comes to, you know, keeping the program alive.
Then start.
Well, this is this is not really a sequential step, but I mentioned it earlier, which is start the program as soon as people have onboarded.
(29:46):
Yeah.
So if you have your employee induction or your orientation, go and speak to the new joiners and tell them about this program.
These are your, you know, your, your people that are in their honeymoon phase.
Yeah.
They've just joined the company.
They want to shout out about it.
They're proud.
You know, they want to talk about, oh, look at this wonderful experience that I've had.
(30:09):
Look, these gifts, they've given me this.
Oh, my, my department, they welcomed me so warmly.
So these are, don't miss that opportunity.
That's what I want to say.
They're most excited, aren't they?
They're most excited.
Capture all that energy.
Of course.
Yeah.
And obviously to talk to them about how the program is and what is, what it entails.
(30:33):
Create.
I have two more steps for easy ones.
Create content that is constantly fresh and exciting, of course, in the different pillars.
And, um, don't overcomplicate.
You never start and you never finish.
(30:53):
This sounds like there's, there's, there could be so much in this.
I think that's such a key step because I think starting small with these things, um, keeping it authentic and genuine sounds like exactly the way to go.
But let's come back to the heart of, I think, well, in my opinion, the heart of it, you'll tell me whether that's true or not, is trying to understand how both parties benefit from an employee advocate program in your experience.
(31:27):
So there are clear advantages for a business that has its people singing and praising what it does and sharing that with however, whatever the network shape looks like.
But then I'm really interested to hear from your perspective, the employee side.
(31:47):
So how, how out front, how part of the program, how, how well do we communicate the benefits that can be sought after by an employee?
And what do you see those as Kristina?
I would say first and foremost, and I've, I've mentioned this a couple of times already.
How does communicating, um, let's keep it to social media for now.
(32:09):
How does communicating about what you do at work help you look like, or in an authentic way, help you come across or, or be represented as a subject matter experts.
Now, whether you're talking about the work you do personally, the work that your team does, or the work that your company does, this automatically increases and improves your brand, your personal brand presence on social media.
(32:37):
And people start noticing, right?
They start noticing what you're posting about.
They start, especially if you're sticking to a particular topic.
So for example, the topic of employee engagement, non-biased here.
No, of course not.
If you're talking about that, I mean, let's not go into the, the whole, um, mechanics of how to become, um, a subject matter expert on LinkedIn.
(33:07):
But I think to get noticed, so first of all, subject matter expert, then to get noticed, you could get noticed by recruiters.
You can get noticed by, um, a specific managers or leaders from a different organization.
And of course we don't want to promote, Oh, please be a brand advocate because you might get recruited in another company.
I know that's a weird one to sell to businesses.
(33:29):
Right?
Weird.
Right.
But at the same time, we want to be able to have our employees as a company look their best on social media.
So whether they're promoting their work, whether they're promoting what the company does, this makes them look good.
And this makes the company look good.
It makes them attractive, I guess, for future, uh, employers who look at someone and say, well, they really got behind that company.
(33:54):
They could do that.
They'd be a good person to have on board, not from a marketing perspective, but just from the ethics, uh, perspective and from the work ethic perhaps.
And the connection, uh, between the business and the person's values and how that could really play a part in their business.
Yeah, I agree.
And I've worked in, in a company before where as part of the employee advocacy program, I arranged professional photography for all, I think it was about 700 employees.
(34:23):
Um, yeah, professional photography and, um, a mini tutorial, a few hour tutorial on how to create your own LinkedIn and how to look professional on LinkedIn.
How do you represent yourself and, and the company?
So if you're working at a company, if you're looking at the company and you're saying, Oh, these guys, they're really well trained.
(34:46):
Oh, they look sharp.
Oh, look at the, the stuff they're promoting and posting.
It raises, you know, the rating of your company, just a little bit more.
Sure.
So we know what employee advocacy program is.
We know what the benefits are for a company.
We know what the benefits are for an employee.
(35:09):
And without me interrupting, we've managed to kind of outline the steps of how you would build such a program.
Now you're doing this all the time for, for clients, Kristina, right?
I'm always interested to understand what hurdles do you see companies facing when they're trying to build these programs on a personal level, on a technical level?
(35:32):
How we maintain authenticity, all these sorts of things.
What sort of problems or hurdles do you see them having to deal with?
You know, I don't want to scare people off.
You won't, you'll be positive, but I'm just interested.
And so I'll just keep it to like three or maximum five.
(35:55):
Getting buy-in.
Really getting authentic buy-in from the leaders.
With the risk of sounding a little bit, maybe biased towards a certain generation.
Not everyone is tech savvy.
Not everyone is, you know, willing to go out on social media and promote themselves or their company.
(36:17):
Not everyone has time to do it.
Not everyone knows how to do it.
Some people prefer to be, you know, silent lurkers instead of being out there in the open.
And I think this is a personality thing.
I think it's a preference.
So you will always have a percentage of the population within an organization that just, they won't participate.
(36:44):
And the biggest hurdle, and I think the most important one, is really understanding who, I keep calling them cheerleaders.
Who are your cheerleaders?
And engaging them and keeping them constantly motivated.
Because if you don't, it's very easy to, you know, kind of forget about the employee advocacy program.
(37:07):
To a point where it becomes part of their own personal culture.
You know, they post every Monday and Thursday at 12 p.m. because it's lunchtime.
And whether they're on holiday or whether Kristina tells them to, they're still going to do it.
Because it's part of now their daily routine.
And that's how it becomes authentic, right?
(37:27):
Another one is really having a company that is very precious about their brand.
They're so precious that people are scared of what to communicate.
They're scared of how and when and what not to say.
So it becomes a very big wall.
And that's very hard to overcome unless you live that culture of, hey, you know, this is what you can do.
(37:56):
Let's do it.
I'll show you that it's okay to do it.
And, you know, people can start to really live an open culture of employee advocacy.
Nice.
Yeah, so leadership buy-in or top people buy-in.
Having a marketing team, that's really difficult.
(38:20):
And then, I mean, if you're looking at people use this as an excuse a lot, and it can be real.
I'm talking about budgets.
So budgets, and it could be budget for a person or a department to take care of this.
It could be budgets for if you want a platform, for example.
If you're talking about budgets for an internal communications team, not everyone has an internal communications team or an employee advocacy or an employee engagement team.
(38:49):
So having that budget, having that understanding that this is crucial to the success of the company is, I think, another big one that we need to focus on and work on improving.
I think you try and come from life from a positive perspective anyway, Kristina, right?
(39:09):
So you're looking at this from a positive, because it could be people listen to this episode going, well, it all sounds lovely about getting people to talk about the business that they work in and their own network.
And that's great when they say nice things.
What if I've had a bad day and they say bad things?
How do policies and rules and procedures kind of help or get in the way of that authenticity?
(39:31):
I mean, it's an interesting question, right?
It's a it's a very challenging question, of course, because you don't want people you don't want to tell your your team members to not post anything negative because you'll get fired.
But at the same time, you don't want them to feel inauthentic about it as well.
(39:52):
I think it's all about communication and it's all about that training on how does it make how does this make you look better and how does this make the company look better?
I think this is the thing about I mean, this is where cultures for me always comes together.
You know, when we understand how the benefit hits the company and the employee on whatever topic we're talking about, that's when things really work, right?
(40:19):
That's when things really start to take shape.
Have you got any examples that spring to mind of people who've put in great programs where employees well after leaving still still maintain, you know, talking about these companies positively after they've left?
Talking, yes.
(40:39):
Posting, not necessarily because they move on.
But I consult for a company now and I do a lot of their employee events and they have some really cool people working with them.
Younger generation in their 20s that are just they just love to brag about their company and they do so on a regular basis.
(41:00):
It's authentic and it helps them grow their network and it makes them look smart.
So without naming any names, I have I have quite a few in my bag of tricks that are doing an awesome job and I've even told them, I want to steal you one day because you're you're amazing at this, you know.
(41:22):
I think this is the thing for me at the heart of this whole idea about having an employee advocacy program is that it is sowing the seeds from day one that we want you to have a great time here.
We're very proud of what we do.
We want you to be proud of what you do and we want to encourage you to tell people about what happens here and why things happen here.
(41:44):
And it's giving them the resources to be able to do that like professionally.
But at the same time, it is sowing the seed that actually putting yourself out there in this kind of manner actually really helps and can fan your own professional persona, your own professional growth, your career of the future.
(42:05):
You can put yourself forward as an employee that other people would love to have inside their organization.
Yeah.
And there is also let's not forget the you mentioned it earlier.
Briefly, people leaving the organization and still talking about the organization.
If you look at certain companies have alumni programs.
(42:27):
So this is very often found in education.
So people who have left the institute or the college or the university, they become part of the alumni.
And it could be an insurance company, even it doesn't matter what the industry is.
But alumni, if you have a special way of engaging with the alumni, whether it's through a platform that allows them to still be somehow connected to the company, allows them to still use the benefits.
(42:57):
For example, Emirates, Emirates Airlines, if you've worked there for 15 years, I believe is the number 14 or I think it's 15 years.
They give you free company tickets for life.
I mean, you're going to be talking about this company all your life.
In a positive way, hopefully, but not just that you leave the company and you have a certain it's called a face card.
(43:22):
So this card gives you access to a lot of discounts in.
In shops and bars and restaurants and in different organizations that because it's such a wide workforce, right, so they still they still benefit from these discounts after they've left.
And I'm not talking about, yes, let's buy them and let's pay them out and let's have them talk nicely about us because we're still giving them these discounts.
(43:48):
I'm talking about, yes, of course, that that also works.
But I'm also talking about companies that reach out to people that have grown.
What is the name of the company?
Kareem.
So Kareem is like an Uber company in the UAE and well, it's Middle East.
But I saw something a few months ago where people that have left Kareem and have become extremely successful in their own right, like they've opened their own companies, startups, and those have flourished tremendously.
(44:21):
So they they did a video with about five or six of them.
And I absolutely loved it because they talk about how Kareem gave them that platform, that that open culture of learning and experimenting and trust and how because of that they have become this.
And it's just what a great example, what a great example of the benefit of this sort of program, Kristina, because that's really what we're talking about.
(44:46):
Yes, we can talk about rewards and recognition and the cost of those things.
And we could talk about top tier ideas like at Emirates where they're, you know, free flights for life after 15 years.
But then you'd come back to what you just talked about with Kareem.
And we're really talking about a strong connection and support of an employee who wants nothing more than to share their experiences there because they've been so beneficial on both sides.
(45:11):
That's what we're looking at.
Now, we have got to the part in the show, Kristina, called Sticky Notes, right, where it's time to summarize, my lovely.
So if someone is listening to this episode today and they are thinking about putting together their first employee advocacy program, what three pieces of advice that you could stick on little sticky notes would you give them?
(45:36):
OK, I've made a note of this, you know, because I don't want to go off topic.
So first and foremost, and I'm going to repeat a little bit of what I've said prior, create a culture that is conducive to employee engagement, a culture that is conducive to trust, honesty and transparency, and this culture that promotes pride, pride in what you do, pride in what your company does so that people will want to say and share good things about your company.
(46:05):
So without, with the risk of being repetitive, get your culture right.
That's the first sticky note.
That's my first one.
Second one.
Yes, the second one is communication.
I'm a big believer, this is no brainer again, strong communication, open, honest, get your communication right, get your policies out there, train people on how to become advocates, on how to use a platform if you have a platform, talk to them about it.
(46:34):
Create focus groups, visit them in departments, teach them, sit next to them and teach them how to do it.
And then, of course, reward, recognize and celebrate them for doing it.
So that's the second sticky note.
And the third sticky note is tell people what's in it for them and get leadership buy-in through that and through everyone else, of course, but get the leaders by telling them what's in it for them.
(47:04):
And again, the training, the communicating, the rewarding, recognizing, gamification, get leaderboards.
All this stuff, you make it sound so easy that it fits on three sticky notes, Kristina.
I'm sure it's a lot harder.
Culture.
Yes, it is.
Culture, communicate.
That's why they've got me.
(47:25):
Culture, communication and buy-in.
Brilliant.
What's in it for us, me, them, you.
Thank you so much, Kristina.
It's been lovely to have you on the show today.
You have, you're such a warm, fun, expressive individual.
So sat here, connected on screens, having a chat over the mics today has been absolutely fantastic.
(47:48):
If people would like to find out a little bit more about you and what you do in the book and all that kind of good stuff, where can they go?
So my book, Beyond Employee Engagement, can be found on all the social, on all the platforms, first of all, where books are bought.
So Amazon, orders, etc.
In the UAE, you can find them in Kinokuniya.
(48:11):
You can find them on my website as well.
You can order from there, especially if you're ordering in bulk and really wanting to perhaps engage with me for workshops or for consultancy.
So that all that good stuff is on my website, beyondemployeeengagement.com.
LinkedIn, of course, that's, you know, one of my favorite places to be nowadays.
(48:34):
It's just, yeah, it's fun.
I like it.
It's been lovely having you on the show.
I know we'll talk again.
My pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me for these thought-provoking questions.
And thank you for our listeners for listening.
Okay, mate, you take care.
Take it easy.
Bye-bye.
(48:54):
Okay, everyone.
That was Kristina Vaneva.
And if you'd like to find out anything more about what we've talked about today, or Kristina herself, please check out the show notes.
So that concludes today's episode.
I hope you've enjoyed it, found it interesting, and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier, more successful business from the inside going forward.
(49:21):
If you have, please like, comment and subscribe.
It really helps.
I'm Andy Goram, and you've been listening to the Sticky from the Inside podcast.
Until next time, thanks for listening.
Hello and welcome to Sticky from the Inside, the employee engagement podcast that looks at how to build stickier, competition smashing, consistently successful organisations from the inside out.
I'm your host Andy Goram and I'm on a mission to help more businesses turn the lights on behind the eyes of their employees, light the fires within them and create tonnes more success for everyone.
(00:39):
This podcast is for all those who believe that's something worth going after and would like a little help and guidance in achieving that.
Each episode we dive into the topics that can help create what I call stickier businesses, the sort of businesses where people thrive and love to work and where more customers stay with you and recommend you to others because they love what you do and why you do it.
(01:03):
So if you want to take the tricky out of being sticky, listen on.
Okay then, imagine a workplace where your employees aren't just there to do a job, they believe in the mission of the business so deeply that they give their best effort and ideas day in and day out with passion and purpose.
(01:26):
They're not just working for you, they're working with you as true partners in success.
And here's the best part, even when they move on to pursue new opportunities, they continue to advocate for your company, sharing their positive experiences, promoting your brand and championing your values wherever they go.
(01:47):
Now, what does it take to create that kind of culture, to foster a sense of loyalty so deep that your people become lifelong advocates, not just because they have to, but because they want to.
So today, we're exploring how to turn that vision into reality.
Specifically, we're diving into the process of building an employee advocacy program that doesn't just drive brand awareness, but one that weaves its way into every aspect of the employee experience.
(02:18):
I'm delighted today to be joined by Kristina Vaneva, a true expert in the world of employee experience and author of the book, Beyond Employee Engagement.
Kristina will, I hope, walk us through the nuts and bolts of creating a program that transforms employees into those lifelong advocates.
We'll explore how advocacy programs integrate into the entire employee journey from onboarding to development, to when they leave, and how it benefits not just the company's brand, but the personal brands of the employees associated with the system too.
(02:55):
In a world where we trust people more than we trust advertising, your employees are your most valuable ambassadors.
And if you can harness that energy, the benefits can be extraordinary, not only for your employer brand, but for the personal and professional growth and reputation of your people too.
So, whether you're looking to strengthen your brand's voice, build deeper loyalty, or empower your employees to become true ambassadors, I hope this episode will be packed with insights that can change the way you think about employee experience.
(03:30):
Welcome to the show, Kristina.
Thank you so much.
I love the sound of your voice.
I love, if I ever need to do a voiceover, I'm definitely not going to get it from AI.
I'm going to reach out to you.
It's just, it's got this really nice undertone to it.
And I love the way you pronounce your words.
(03:54):
It's just, ah, it's perfect.
Great for a podcast, by the way.
Wow.
Oh, yeah.
Well, let's just do the podcast.
Let's just sit here and get flattering comments all day.
Lovely to have you here.
I am really curious about this, this chat today around advocacy, or advocate programs, because we've used the word advocacy loads in employee engagement, and all related to net promoter scores and all that kind of good stuff.
(04:21):
But we're talking about something a bit different today, which I'm really looking forward to.
But before we get stuck into all of that, Kristina, do me a little favor, give us a bit of a background into you, what you do, what you're up to now, all that kind of good stuff.
Very exciting.
Thank you, first of all, for having me on your lovely show.
(04:42):
I'm very excited to be able to share the opportunity or to take this opportunity to share a little bit about what I'm passionate about.
So for the last, I would say six, almost 17 years, I have spent and really
dedicated my career, my professional experience, my studies to this topic, which is the topic of
(05:04):
employee engagement, employee experience, and how do we create a journey for employees, such a
journey that would be conducive to, of course, their personal happiness, but also conducive to
them going above and beyond and delivering an amazing experience for guests, which of course
(05:25):
turns into an incredible experience for investors as well.
And it builds loyalty, it builds brand loyalty.
But more importantly, and I talk about it in my book, shameless promotion.
More importantly, how this experience that companies build together with their employees, how does this experience affect the employees, families, their loved ones, their neighbors, their communities, and then society in general.
(06:05):
So I have spent a long time in the UAE, in Dubai, particularly, I've been here, where I am in Dubai right now for 16 and a half years.
But my work with communication and with HR started a little bit before that.
I lived in Malta before that, I grew up in Greece, so I've kind of lived in several countries and continents.
(06:29):
I spent my childhood in Libya.
I'm Bulgarian, by the way, by origin and by passport, but I only lived there for five years.
So I grew up in Libya, went to boarding school and school in Greece and Malta.
And I spent about 13 years at Atlantis, Atlantis Resorts, where I would say a big part of my employee engagement, where my passion for employee engagement was born and developed.
(06:59):
And really, the company had given me the opportunity to flourish and to soar and to use my creativity and create a culture, a strategy and a culture in a company that were during a period where employee engagement really wasn't a thing.
(07:22):
You know, especially in this region, there were very few vacancies around that topic, let alone, you know, managers and leaders really being coached and taught about the importance of employee engagement.
So I would consider myself probably a maverick that I can call myself a maverick, right?
(07:49):
And I think because I'm so passionate about it, it really helps to really create and consult because I currently consult companies on how to create an extraordinary employee experience.
Because my passion comes through quite authentically.
(08:10):
I think that that gives me an extra edge over people that maybe have just studied it in the last few years, because since the pandemic, it's really become a popular profession.
Sure.
And we're going to tap into that passion, I'm sure today, as we sort of get stuck in.
I mean, what a wonderfully exotic and varied background you have, Kristina, right?
(08:35):
So I think that's going to shine through today.
Now we're going to talk about employee advocacy, or employee advocate programs.
I mean, that's maybe a split definition itself.
But let's go back to brass tacks here.
When we think of a genuine employee advocate, what does that person look like to you?
(08:59):
And how does being an advocate go beyond just promoting the company?
Love that question.
So a genuine advocate is obviously someone who's authentic, you know, someone who's not feeling pressured or paid to talk about the company.
There's, there's a model that Concentric uses for employee engagement.
(09:22):
And they do their employee engagement survey with, you know, several questions, like 40 plus questions.
But the really six important questions in their formula to measure engagement is say, stay and strive questions.
And those are say questions, do employees say good things about your company?
Do they strive?
(09:42):
And do they, so do they go above and beyond?
And then do they stay in your company?
Are they loyal?
Do they stick around or they want to leave after a year or two?
So the say questions are really important, because you measure to what degree the
employees really want to authentically come out and talk about the company, whether it's on social
(10:04):
media, whether it's at a conference, whether it's, you know, at a dinner party, employees are
advocates, positive or negative ones, of course, at any occasion, it doesn't need to be, you know, when
we talk about employee advocacy programs, a lot of people think about, you know, platforms and
technology and creating, or pre creating content that people can post on their social media, of
(10:41):
instance, for instance, or when if you're presenting something on stage, or you're talking about your
company during a, like, if you're up for an award, and you're presenting about your company, these
are all ways to advocate positively, of course, hopefully, about the organization.
(11:03):
If you're running a recruitment fair, for example, if you're looking for fresh graduates, or interns, management trainees, the way you talk about your company there, as a representative of that company is also part of employee advocacy.
So I want to kind of make that clear that, you know, oftentimes, we want to refer back to technology.
(11:25):
And we want to say, Oh, yeah, we would all we don't have a budget for this program, or it requires a lot of training, people don't have time to post.
It's not just posting the way you talk, what you say and what you don't say.
I think this is what's going to be interesting about this conversation today.
Because often, employee advocacy is limited to would you recommend this place to friends and family.
(11:52):
And what we're trying to go here with this today's conversation is a bit deeper into how can we maybe corral or orchestrate a program that captures the very essence of this advocacy, but comes from having an employee experience where this promotion of the business and the people that work there just comes naturally, right, it comes authentically, it comes willingly.
(12:16):
But maybe not everybody is is on the same page when we think about this corralling, right, or this this forming of a program.
So in your mind, what is an employee advocate program?
Kristina, what's that?
So of course, let's start off with the presumption that the employee has now been hired into the company, and he or she or they have now begun their first day.
(12:47):
How does that actually, let's take it a step back.
They've been contacted by the recruitment team or the talent acquisition team.
And their journey has now become a little bit more real, and a little bit more tangible.
So how, how are the questions asked?
(13:08):
What questions are asked?
How does the recruiter or the hiring manager help you feel?
You can already start planning the employee experience and the employee advocates advocacy from that moment onwards.
So by training your HR team, by training the team that is in charge of potentially reaching out, it could be even the recruiters, the way a recruitment company, if you're using head hunters, the way a recruitment company talks about your company, right?
(13:43):
Because oftentimes they say, Oh, this is a great company with with a interesting open culture, you have, you know, flexibility in the workplace, you know, so they, they have a little bit of a spiel about how, how to promote your company.
So you can already start from there by preparing those little tiny but crucial steps in the way that an employee feels as they're joining.
(14:07):
So even in the very start of your employee experience journey that you're mapping out, right?
You're already seeding the fact that you would encourage employees to talk openly about the company, what it does, what it stands for all this stuff right from the get go.
Absolutely.
And, you know, a lot of the times people are unsure about whether they can post on social media, what they can post, when they can post, what are the brand guidelines.
(14:39):
So an employee advocacy program needs to make this super easy for new joiners.
So I have a few steps that I've put together and that I really like to follow.
And I think they're quite sequential.
And the steps are crucial when it comes to creating such a program.
And first and foremost, of course, you you want you need to want to do it.
(15:00):
And to have as a company I'm talking about in general, you need to either have a person doing it or a department or if you're working on a global or regional scale, perhaps volunteers in different countries, and to help to build that team of brand ambassadors together that will take take the employee advocacy journey on a real journey.
(15:24):
So once you have someone responsible for that, there is someone that's accountable, someone that's really motivated, and ideally, they must know what they're doing as well.
But I've been in situations where people didn't really know what they were doing, they were winging it, but because of their, their passion and their love for the company, they created some outstanding employee advocacy programs.
(15:48):
So the person themselves or the department themselves that are taking care of this important part of the employee experience must be engaged, let's put it that way.
You start, so that's the first step.
And then the second step, of course, is to put together policies to put together guidelines training on, first of all, what is the what does it mean?
(16:13):
You know, what is this employee advocacy?
Who can participate in it?
How often can they?
Why should they participate?
You know, you answer all the who, what, when, where, why questions.
And then you have to create obviously, policies around all the questions that people ask, you know, sometimes they're concerned with, you know, what they've posted, sometimes marketing reaches out to them and says, this is completely against their brand guidelines.
(16:39):
So many times people have been kind of burned and they just prefer not to post anything.
So ideally, I'm talking about if you're working in a company where, where things are not confidential.
You know, when we're talking about a company or an organization that's open and has customers that that really want to hear about what the what the organization is doing, that's when when an employee advocacy program really works well.
(17:08):
So create that culture where people feel safe and they feel well-trained to communicate and to promote the company.
The third one is get the culture right.
And this is something that I always talk about.
If you create a company or an organizational culture where people feel, first of all, proud of their company, and second of all, proud of the work they do, authentic, recognized, rewarded, the company's taking care of their well being.
(17:40):
And I'm not talking about necessarily it has to be something super expensive and, and super big and, and, oh, it's gonna take us a year to build it.
I'm talking about small steps.
If you're starting off, you know.
So create that culture where people will want to share, they'll want to talk about the company, they'll want to tell people where they work and what they do.
(18:04):
And, and, by the way, that's, that's a huge part of a sustainable and ongoing.
100%.
We've got 104 other episodes of this podcast, you might want to listen to, to hit item three, which is get the culture right, because that's huge, right?
(18:25):
It's crucial.
And, you know, culture is evolving.
And it's like a living organism.
The minute you stop paying attention to it, it starts getting sick or, you know, something infected.
Because we're people, right?
And people change, leadership changes.
(18:45):
So the company has to always be on, on the top of your list.
It has to be done intentionally.
Fourth one is get leadership buy-in, but really true buy-in.
So help them understand what is in it for them, first of all.
So how can they become thought leaders?
How can their personal brands flourish?
(19:08):
And second of all, how does this help the company?
Once you've got the leaders buy-in, I think this is a no brainer.
Once you have them also using the advocacy program, whether it's a platform or whether they're just simply sharing, you know, information on social media, I think people in general start to feel a little bit more comfortable.
(19:31):
Because if your DM is doing it, then, you know, why can't I do it?
And you keep saying, using the advocacy program.
And you've mentioned platforms and bits and pieces before.
What does this look like?
When you're going to a prospective client, and you utter the words, oh, yeah, let's build an employee advocacy program, and they look at you with a blank face and go, well, what is that, Kristina?
(19:58):
So it's very core.
What are we talking about here?
So if you're looking at it from it's a little bit of a marketing, I would say, tactic in a positive way, of course.
So if you're looking at it from a marketing perspective, you're looking at what are the pillars?
What are what is the information that you want to communicate out there?
(20:19):
So do you want do you have pillars that are talking about, you know, employment, so join the company because ABC?
Or do you have another pillar that talks about why your company is the best or amongst the best.
So you create your different pillars you create with topics, you create your personas, you know, who are those messages going out to you know, who are you trying to target?
(20:45):
And then you start with either doing it through a platform, you create the content, of course, I would strongly advise at least a month ahead, before you have even launched the program to have content in this platform, or in a common folder that people can often refer to.
(21:08):
And if you don't, let's say worst case scenario, you don't have a platform because there's no budget for it.
You don't have time to really create so much content specifically for people.
If you have employee engagement activities, or a social calendar, or if you have, if your company is up for an award, or they have just launched a new product, or they've opened a new, if we're talking about, for example, hospitality, they've opened a new restaurant, there's always some information that is, you know, worth sharing.
(21:45):
And if you have that
kind of culture, where the internal communications team is always making this information readily available, with images or videos, you can even
start off your employee advocacy program by saying, Guys, we're going to share this newsletter or stuff on the intranet on a daily basis, weekly
(22:05):
basis, help us to promote it, or we're going to share it on our Facebook or Instagram page, or on our LinkedIn page, help us by resharing it, or
help us by taking bits and pieces, repurposing it, making it your own, we will provide you the pictures, just help us spread the news.
So it's just a resource platform where employees who feel inclined to promote the company, its values, what it's up to, to its own network, can get resources that I don't know, fit the brand match up, but is easy for them to get hold of, I guess, on the other side, they can create their own stuff, though, right?
(22:44):
I mean, as programs evolve, that's what you want organic stuff.
This is actually even better than people relying on your content.
Because once you have people or once you have employees creating their own stuff, you know that they're, they're engaged, they're motivated, they're going to be there promoting your company, promoting yourselves at the same time building their own brand name, their image, their reputation.
(23:11):
Of course, this is, this is the biggest reason why employees should be encouraged to participate in a program.
It's not, it's not a cheap and, and free way of promoting your company.
But it's a way to make sure that the people within your company look like subject matter experts, no matter what level they're on.
(23:31):
Right?
Absolutely.
Otherwise, it feels disingenuous and can will be seen straight through.
And I interrupted you taking us through the steps.
I think you've got step four.
So I think it was a good interruption because it added value to what I was saying and what I'll continue talking about.
Okay, cool.
(23:51):
So once you have the buy in the leadership, the communication, the policies established, you've reached out to, you know, people that you think might be begin to be your first cheerleaders.
So you build your brand ambassador team, you might start off with, I'm just saying, you know, random numbers here, but you might, depending on how large your company is, medium sized enterprise, you might want to start off with, you know, first five people, 10, make sure that you grow it to a number consistently, and sustainably, and have a number that you want to reach.
(24:28):
But let's say you want to reach 100 people over one year.
But do not limit it.
Because what you think is possible with 100 people, you know, maybe the rest of the entire organization, you'll never have 100% participation.
But let's say another 200 within the same year want to, you know, jump on the bandwagon, and they really feel proud and engaged with what they're doing and what their company is doing.
(24:57):
And they want to support this employee advocacy program and strategy.
So what I'm saying is have a number in mind, but always be open to this number can and should grow beyond your expectations.
And how do you go around encouraging participation without it feeling forced when you're thinking about those sort of numbers?
(25:20):
Kristina, tell me about that.
I know, I love this question.
So there's a company that I mentioned in my book, it's called the company is called Innovisor.
And they have created this 3% rule.
And this 3% rule refers to 3% of your company are the informal communicators or influencers within the company.
(25:41):
So if you have your internal comms team, if you have your leadership team, your managers, all those are expected to be communicators, right?
Officially, but unofficially, there are 3%.
And so this company has devised a way to identify who these 3% are, because ideally, they should be on your side.
(26:04):
Because some of these 3% people could be negative influencers, right?
So not everything, not everyone will be positive.
And you want to turn those negatives or those people that are a little bit disgruntled, or they don't believe in what you're doing, or what the company is doing.
You want to turn them into supporters.
(26:25):
Of course, that's not always possible with everyone.
But there's a way to identify these informal influencers that have so much power over the way that the company is evolving from a culture perspective.
And what is happening when no one's looking and when no one's purposely listening?
(26:46):
And, you know, what's happening from the back end of the company?
So I would say, of course, reach out, first of all, initially to people who you believe are engaged, who will be interested, who will be good at that.
And those that already do it, you know, promote, go out there on social media, go to networking events, you already, if you're within the HR team, and you have a good, I would say pulse on the organization, you would already know some of these people.
(27:22):
And then if you don't, then start to know them.
Because that's, that's a crucial aspect of HR, right?
Get to know who your potential cheerleaders can be.
And then, of course, communicate the importance of the program, or the strategy, or that this is going to become part of the culture from now on, to the whole organization, have some mini workshops, have some focus groups, help people feel
(27:49):
involved, and included in this program, whether it's from the beginning, or let's say from, let's, let's say the third or fourth step into the program, but but really help people feel engaged from from the get go, of course, you will have those that don't want to post anything that are introverts that don't really go to networking events or career fairs, or anything out there in the open, except, of course, their
(28:18):
families and their communities, which, again, is crucial.
So you won't have everyone on the bandwagon of the Employee Advocacy Program.
But something I love doing is gamifying, reward and recognize, rewarding and recognizing and celebrating wins.
So talking about what's in it for them.
(28:41):
That's, I think that's the first and foremost, crucial aspect of getting people to participate in the program.
Talk about show them, of course, people that have been brand advocates in other companies, what it's done for their career, how it looks internally.
(29:02):
Really, what's in it for me?
Why should I do it?
And then give me the tools, empower me with the tools that I need to make you successful.
Sure.
I'm keen to see if we can finish your steps to building this program.
How far have we got?
And we've got four more steps.
(29:23):
Four more steps.
So the reward, recognize, gamify and celebrate, that's crucial when it comes to, you know, keeping the program alive.
Then start.
Well, this is this is not really a sequential step, but I mentioned it earlier, which is start the program as soon as people have onboarded.
(29:46):
Yeah.
So if you have your employee induction or your orientation, go and speak to the new joiners and tell them about this program.
These are your, you know, your, your people that are in their honeymoon phase.
Yeah.
They've just joined the company.
They want to shout out about it.
They're proud.
You know, they want to talk about, oh, look at this wonderful experience that I've had.
(30:09):
Look, these gifts, they've given me this.
Oh, my, my department, they welcomed me so warmly.
So these are, don't miss that opportunity.
That's what I want to say.
They're most excited, aren't they?
They're most excited.
Capture all that energy.
Of course.
Yeah.
And obviously to talk to them about how the program is and what is, what it entails.
(30:33):
Create.
I have two more steps for easy ones.
Create content that is constantly fresh and exciting, of course, in the different pillars.
And, um, don't overcomplicate.
You never start and you never finish.
(30:53):
This sounds like there's, there's, there could be so much in this.
I think that's such a key step because I think starting small with these things, um, keeping it authentic and genuine sounds like exactly the way to go.
But let's come back to the heart of, I think, well, in my opinion, the heart of it, you'll tell me whether that's true or not, is trying to understand how both parties benefit from an employee advocate program in your experience.
(31:27):
So there are clear advantages for a business that has its people singing and praising what it does and sharing that with however, whatever the network shape looks like.
But then I'm really interested to hear from your perspective, the employee side.
(31:47):
So how, how out front, how part of the program, how, how well do we communicate the benefits that can be sought after by an employee?
And what do you see those as Kristina?
I would say first and foremost, and I've, I've mentioned this a couple of times already.
How does communicating, um, let's keep it to social media for now.
(32:09):
How does communicating about what you do at work help you look like, or in an authentic way, help you come across or, or be represented as a subject matter experts.
Now, whether you're talking about the work you do personally, the work that your team does, or the work that your company does, this automatically increases and improves your brand, your personal brand presence on social media.
(32:37):
And people start noticing, right?
They start noticing what you're posting about.
They start, especially if you're sticking to a particular topic.
So for example, the topic of employee engagement, non-biased here.
No, of course not.
If you're talking about that, I mean, let's not go into the, the whole, um, mechanics of how to become, um, a subject matter expert on LinkedIn.
(33:07):
But I think to get noticed, so first of all, subject matter expert, then to get noticed, you could get noticed by recruiters.
You can get noticed by, um, a specific managers or leaders from a different organization.
And of course we don't want to promote, Oh, please be a brand advocate because you might get recruited in another company.
I know that's a weird one to sell to businesses.
(33:29):
Right?
Weird.
Right.
But at the same time, we want to be able to have our employees as a company look their best on social media.
So whether they're promoting their work, whether they're promoting what the company does, this makes them look good.
And this makes the company look good.
It makes them attractive, I guess, for future, uh, employers who look at someone and say, well, they really got behind that company.
(33:54):
They could do that.
They'd be a good person to have on board, not from a marketing perspective, but just from the ethics, uh, perspective and from the work ethic perhaps.
And the connection, uh, between the business and the person's values and how that could really play a part in their business.
Yeah, I agree.
And I've worked in, in a company before where as part of the employee advocacy program, I arranged professional photography for all, I think it was about 700 employees.
(34:23):
Um, yeah, professional photography and, um, a mini tutorial, a few hour tutorial on how to create your own LinkedIn and how to look professional on LinkedIn.
How do you represent yourself and, and the company?
So if you're working at a company, if you're looking at the company and you're saying, Oh, these guys, they're really well trained.
(34:46):
Oh, they look sharp.
Oh, look at the, the stuff they're promoting and posting.
It raises, you know, the rating of your company, just a little bit more.
Sure.
So we know what employee advocacy program is.
We know what the benefits are for a company.
We know what the benefits are for an employee.
(35:09):
And without me interrupting, we've managed to kind of outline the steps of how you would build such a program.
Now you're doing this all the time for, for clients, Kristina, right?
I'm always interested to understand what hurdles do you see companies facing when they're trying to build these programs on a personal level, on a technical level?
(35:32):
How we maintain authenticity, all these sorts of things.
What sort of problems or hurdles do you see them having to deal with?
You know, I don't want to scare people off.
You won't, you'll be positive, but I'm just interested.
And so I'll just keep it to like three or maximum five.
(35:55):
Getting buy-in.
Really getting authentic buy-in from the leaders.
With the risk of sounding a little bit, maybe biased towards a certain generation.
Not everyone is tech savvy.
Not everyone is, you know, willing to go out on social media and promote themselves or their company.
(36:17):
Not everyone has time to do it.
Not everyone knows how to do it.
Some people prefer to be, you know, silent lurkers instead of being out there in the open.
And I think this is a personality thing.
I think it's a preference.
So you will always have a percentage of the population within an organization that just, they won't participate.
(36:44):
And the biggest hurdle, and I think the most important one, is really understanding who, I keep calling them cheerleaders.
Who are your cheerleaders?
And engaging them and keeping them constantly motivated.
Because if you don't, it's very easy to, you know, kind of forget about the employee advocacy program.
(37:07):
To a point where it becomes part of their own personal culture.
You know, they post every Monday and Thursday at 12 p.m. because it's lunchtime.
And whether they're on holiday or whether Kristina tells them to, they're still going to do it.
Because it's part of now their daily routine.
And that's how it becomes authentic, right?
(37:27):
Another one is really having a company that is very precious about their brand.
They're so precious that people are scared of what to communicate.
They're scared of how and when and what not to say.
So it becomes a very big wall.
And that's very hard to overcome unless you live that culture of, hey, you know, this is what you can do.
(37:56):
Let's do it.
I'll show you that it's okay to do it.
And, you know, people can start to really live an open culture of employee advocacy.
Nice.
Yeah, so leadership buy-in or top people buy-in.
Having a marketing team, that's really difficult.
(38:20):
And then, I mean, if you're looking at people use this as an excuse a lot, and it can be real.
I'm talking about budgets.
So budgets, and it could be budget for a person or a department to take care of this.
It could be budgets for if you want a platform, for example.
If you're talking about budgets for an internal communications team, not everyone has an internal communications team or an employee advocacy or an employee engagement team.
(38:49):
So having that budget, having that understanding that this is crucial to the success of the company is, I think, another big one that we need to focus on and work on improving.
I think you try and come from life from a positive perspective anyway, Kristina, right?
(39:09):
So you're looking at this from a positive, because it could be people listen to this episode going, well, it all sounds lovely about getting people to talk about the business that they work in and their own network.
And that's great when they say nice things.
What if I've had a bad day and they say bad things?
How do policies and rules and procedures kind of help or get in the way of that authenticity?
(39:31):
I mean, it's an interesting question, right?
It's a it's a very challenging question, of course, because you don't want people you don't want to tell your your team members to not post anything negative because you'll get fired.
But at the same time, you don't want them to feel inauthentic about it as well.
(39:52):
I think it's all about communication and it's all about that training on how does it make how does this make you look better and how does this make the company look better?
I think this is the thing about I mean, this is where cultures for me always comes together.
You know, when we understand how the benefit hits the company and the employee on whatever topic we're talking about, that's when things really work, right?
(40:19):
That's when things really start to take shape.
Have you got any examples that spring to mind of people who've put in great programs where employees well after leaving still still maintain, you know, talking about these companies positively after they've left?
Talking, yes.
(40:39):
Posting, not necessarily because they move on.
But I consult for a company now and I do a lot of their employee events and they have some really cool people working with them.
Younger generation in their 20s that are just they just love to brag about their company and they do so on a regular basis.
(41:00):
It's authentic and it helps them grow their network and it makes them look smart.
So without naming any names, I have I have quite a few in my bag of tricks that are doing an awesome job and I've even told them, I want to steal you one day because you're you're amazing at this, you know.
(41:22):
I think this is the thing for me at the heart of this whole idea about having an employee advocacy program is that it is sowing the seeds from day one that we want you to have a great time here.
We're very proud of what we do.
We want you to be proud of what you do and we want to encourage you to tell people about what happens here and why things happen here.
(41:44):
And it's giving them the resources to be able to do that like professionally.
But at the same time, it is sowing the seed that actually putting yourself out there in this kind of manner actually really helps and can fan your own professional persona, your own professional growth, your career of the future.
(42:05):
You can put yourself forward as an employee that other people would love to have inside their organization.
Yeah.
And there is also let's not forget the you mentioned it earlier.
Briefly, people leaving the organization and still talking about the organization.
If you look at certain companies have alumni programs.
(42:27):
So this is very often found in education.
So people who have left the institute or the college or the university, they become part of the alumni.
And it could be an insurance company, even it doesn't matter what the industry is.
But alumni, if you have a special way of engaging with the alumni, whether it's through a platform that allows them to still be somehow connected to the company, allows them to still use the benefits.
(42:57):
For example, Emirates, Emirates Airlines, if you've worked there for 15 years, I believe is the number 14 or I think it's 15 years.
They give you free company tickets for life.
I mean, you're going to be talking about this company all your life.
In a positive way, hopefully, but not just that you leave the company and you have a certain it's called a face card.
(43:22):
So this card gives you access to a lot of discounts in.
In shops and bars and restaurants and in different organizations that because it's such a wide workforce, right, so they still they still benefit from these discounts after they've left.
And I'm not talking about, yes, let's buy them and let's pay them out and let's have them talk nicely about us because we're still giving them these discounts.
(43:48):
I'm talking about, yes, of course, that that also works.
But I'm also talking about companies that reach out to people that have grown.
What is the name of the company?
Kareem.
So Kareem is like an Uber company in the UAE and well, it's Middle East.
But I saw something a few months ago where people that have left Kareem and have become extremely successful in their own right, like they've opened their own companies, startups, and those have flourished tremendously.
(44:21):
So they they did a video with about five or six of them.
And I absolutely loved it because they talk about how Kareem gave them that platform, that that open culture of learning and experimenting and trust and how because of that they have become this.
And it's just what a great example, what a great example of the benefit of this sort of program, Kristina, because that's really what we're talking about.
(44:46):
Yes, we can talk about rewards and recognition and the cost of those things.
And we could talk about top tier ideas like at Emirates where they're, you know, free flights for life after 15 years.
But then you'd come back to what you just talked about with Kareem.
And we're really talking about a strong connection and support of an employee who wants nothing more than to share their experiences there because they've been so beneficial on both sides.
(45:11):
That's what we're looking at.
Now, we have got to the part in the show, Kristina, called Sticky Notes, right, where it's time to summarize, my lovely.
So if someone is listening to this episode today and they are thinking about putting together their first employee advocacy program, what three pieces of advice that you could stick on little sticky notes would you give them?
(45:36):
OK, I've made a note of this, you know, because I don't want to go off topic.
So first and foremost, and I'm going to repeat a little bit of what I've said prior, create a culture that is conducive to employee engagement, a culture that is conducive to trust, honesty and transparency, and this culture that promotes pride, pride in what you do, pride in what your company does so that people will want to say and share good things about your company.
(46:05):
So without, with the risk of being repetitive, get your culture right.
That's the first sticky note.
That's my first one.
Second one.
Yes, the second one is communication.
I'm a big believer, this is no brainer again, strong communication, open, honest, get your communication right, get your policies out there, train people on how to become advocates, on how to use a platform if you have a platform, talk to them about it.
(46:34):
Create focus groups, visit them in departments, teach them, sit next to them and teach them how to do it.
And then, of course, reward, recognize and celebrate them for doing it.
So that's the second sticky note.
And the third sticky note is tell people what's in it for them and get leadership buy-in through that and through everyone else, of course, but get the leaders by telling them what's in it for them.
(47:04):
And again, the training, the communicating, the rewarding, recognizing, gamification, get leaderboards.
All this stuff, you make it sound so easy that it fits on three sticky notes, Kristina.
I'm sure it's a lot harder.
Culture.
Yes, it is.
Culture, communicate.
That's why they've got me.
(47:25):
Culture, communication and buy-in.
Brilliant.
What's in it for us, me, them, you.
Thank you so much, Kristina.
It's been lovely to have you on the show today.
You have, you're such a warm, fun, expressive individual.
So sat here, connected on screens, having a chat over the mics today has been absolutely fantastic.
(47:48):
If people would like to find out a little bit more about you and what you do in the book and all that kind of good stuff, where can they go?
So my book, Beyond Employee Engagement, can be found on all the social, on all the platforms, first of all, where books are bought.
So Amazon, orders, etc.
In the UAE, you can find them in Kinokuniya.
(48:11):
You can find them on my website as well.
You can order from there, especially if you're ordering in bulk and really wanting to perhaps engage with me for workshops or for consultancy.
So that all that good stuff is on my website, beyondemployeeengagement.com.
LinkedIn, of course, that's, you know, one of my favorite places to be nowadays.
(48:34):
It's just, yeah, it's fun.
I like it.
It's been lovely having you on the show.
I know we'll talk again.
My pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me for these thought-provoking questions.
And thank you for our listeners for listening.
Okay, mate, you take care.
Take it easy.
Bye-bye.
(48:54):
Okay, everyone.
That was Kristina Vaneva.
And if you'd like to find out anything more about what we've talked about today, or Kristina herself, please check out the show notes.
So that concludes today's episode.
I hope you've enjoyed it, found it interesting, and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier, more successful business from the inside going forward.
(49:21):
If you have, please like, comment and subscribe.
It really helps.
I'm Andy Goram, and you've been listening to the Sticky from the Inside podcast.
Until next time, thanks for listening.
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