November 12, 2025 • 32 mins
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In this episode of the Your Law Firm Success Podcast, host Stephen Moore returns after a short break to explore one of the most talked-about topics in the legal world right now: AI integration.
Stephen is joined by Alex Hutchinson, an expert in helping boutique law firms implement technology to boost efficiency, productivity, and client service. Together, they break down how law firms can take practical steps toward adopting AI — starting with defining a clear narrative, identifying specific use cases, and understanding how these tools fit into existing workflows.
Alex also shares his perspective on the importance of aligning AI strategy with client expectations and firm-wide goals, offering actionable insights for legal leaders ready to embrace change.
If you're a managing partner, operations lead, or forward-thinking lawyer wondering how to make AI work for your firm, this episode is packed with practical advice to get you started.
⏱️ Episode Breakdown 00:00 – Welcome back to the Your Law Firm Success Podcast 00:42 – Introducing Alex Hutchinson: AI expert for law firms 03:15 – The common challenges law firms face with tech adoption 07:09 – Understanding AI’s impact on the legal industry 12:32 – Why every firm needs a clear AI narrative 16:56 – How to build your narrative from the ground up 17:10 – Crafting a firm-wide mission statement 18:02 – Adapting your message for different practice areas 19:11 – Communicating AI goals effectively across the firm 19:56 – Identifying realistic AI use cases 21:21 – Defining and documenting your use cases 24:03 – Implementing AI tools in legal practice 29:44 – The future of AI in the legal sector 32:07 – Closing thoughts and takeaways
Listen now to learn how to bridge the gap between curiosity and implementation — and set your law firm up for success in the age of AI.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So after a brief hiatus, I've comeback with a difficult second album
of the Euro Law Firm Success Podcast.
And surprisingly enough, we're givingit a strong focus on ai, but not on.
Not in the way that we see at conferencesand events and talks and sales materials.
It's really about how you can begin toseparate the wheat from the chaff as a law
(00:24):
firm owner or a law firm leader, or as alaw firm partner, looking at how you can
begin to deploy AI within your practice.
For many, it's become a st uh,almost like stage fright where
you're confronted with so much thatit's difficult to make a decision.
So in my first e episode of this newseason, I brought in Alex Hutchinson.
(00:48):
I really like Alex Hutchin as a typicalman or j or person from northern England.
He's straightforward, easyto deal with and pragmatic.
And his job is largely helping lawfirms look at the best ways in which
they can deploy it to their benefit.
To increase efficiency, maximizeproductivity, and reduce, um, roadblocks
(01:13):
or obstacles that have got my dog with me.
And again, today for this,uh, she was there for the
first one of the last series.
In this episode, what we do is wespeak to Alex and we say, we ask him.
Where do you start?
Where do you begin andhow do you get started?
How do you begin taking yourfirm down this journey that
we now know we are all on?
(01:34):
Thank you very much, Alex, for coming in.
You're the first guest of season two.
How does that feel?
I'm honored.
Honored to be of season two.
Yeah.
Um, the reason that I wanted tospeak to you is because, and after a
sort of hiatus in this, there's onesubject that's on everybody's mind.
Mm. Um.
And that's, you know, how we'regoing to live on Mars or more likely
(01:59):
in the legal sector, the use of ai.
And for one, you know, I, despite being abig user of AI in our workplace, and a fan
of what it can bring from an efficiencyand skills point of view, have been
absolutely overwhelmed and overwhelmedby its use in, uh, conferences, events.
(02:22):
Um, the delegate lists and also whatyou call 'em, the, um, exhibition
areas where vendors and sponsors are,you know, it's a complete overwhelm.
Mm. And what I wanted to do was tobring in an expert who works with
law firms around the country, helpingthem to understand how they can
deploy technology to their benefit.
(02:46):
With a view to offering some guidanceas to how law firms can begin a
law firms of all shapes and sizes.
Yeah.
Who don't have the type of resource,um, that the bigger firms might
have can begin to understand howand where they can implement.
AI into their practice.
That was meant to be an introduction.
(03:06):
It was a bit of a large monologue.
So maybe you could just tell usinitially just a brief introduction
into you and your business.
Yeah, sure.
Um, so I
operate as a fractional CTObasically, or independent IT
leadership for boutique law firm.
So we're, we're typicallydealing with firms that are
over half a million revenue.
Under 250 headcount.
(03:27):
They don't need a full-time IT directorfractional CTO or anything on the payroll.
But tech's getting in the way.
Tech can mean IT systems,software suppliers, security.
They've had enough something's preventingthem from doing what they need to do or
be where they need to be and they wannabring in some help on a temporary basis.
That's basically what we do.
(03:48):
Um.
I provide that leadership.
And then there's, there's certaintypes of projects that, that typically
would be, um,
how do these problems initiallymanifest themselves for our firms?
Like if you were to outlinemaybe the top three or four
issues that firms maybe come to.
So some, some are kind of legacyissues where you've started a firm.
(04:09):
You know, you were small, you've acquiredbits of technology and software and
systems, and that works to a degree.
But then eventually as you growin headcount, they start creaking.
And it's not just law firms likeany business owner would do.
You don't wanna go out yourway to make these changes.
'cause it's not easy to do.
They know that they don't know.
(04:30):
What new technology to pick, they don'treally wanna get involved in doing it.
So they keep going as long as they can andeventually something happens, something
happens where it becomes disruptive.
Either.
A lot of the things, um, thatspring to mind when I talk about
legacy is you'll have a piece ofsoftware that sits on a server, but
everything now is built in the cloud.
So these two things don't talk andit's getting stretched all the time.
(04:52):
So it starts to actually disruptthe firm, uh, and that's when
they need to make a change.
Or case management providers said.
You know, you're no longer on that model.
You're now software as a service.
It's 45 a month.
You need to move to this one.
You're not doing it.
It's 90 a month.
You know, there's, there's the,the environment forces it, whether
it's the internal environmentor the external environment.
Right.
Okay.
(05:12):
Or there's just a trust thing.
You know, we've gotdowntime and disruption.
Um, we can't log in or thisis going down all the time.
We've told the IT provider to fix it.
They've told us they've done it fivetimes and every time it keeps coming back.
I've had enough.
You know, and that's when they needsomebody independent just coming
in.
Understand it and take care of it.
And how do they normally find you?
(05:32):
Are you introduced or isthis online or LinkedIn?
'cause you're quite active on LinkedIn.
Yeah, I, I am active on LinkedIn.
I think what I've realized now is that,
that I like doing it.
I do like doing it.
Um, you need to be careful.
You don't do too much, too much of it.
But for me, it's useful for people inmy network to see there are law firms
that, so funnily enough they'll mentionit to you, although they won't like,
(05:53):
or yeah, comment, but it comes up inconversation saying, oh, I saw that post.
And then another client, so anotherpartner saying, oh, I saw that as well.
I said, well, neither of youliked or commented on it.
But they don't want to,they just enjoy viewing it.
So, um.
To answer the question, all ofour work comes through, through
introductions and recommendations.
So I, I literally have a networkof people that I know that
(06:14):
specialize in helping law firms.
That's only who I talk to.
That's who I spend my time with.
And you curate that yourself for thepeople that you like and you trust
and that you think can actually.
You ask them about what they do forfirms and do you believe that that
would be good advice to someoneand would you introduce them?
Mm-hmm.
They're the ones I keep in touch with.
Mm-hmm.
And it's those, it's thoserelationships that introduce work.
(06:35):
'cause a managing partnerwill be sat there.
They'll talk about a problem thatis in the sphere of it, and every
time that an intro comes up, someonewill say, you need to speak to Alex.
And that's how it starts.
And
um, and so tell me then, 'cause Iimagine it would've been broadly similar
to us, MLT Digital and that our workwas broadly had, has been broadly
(06:56):
similar in terms of the tools and thetechniques that we deployed to help
law firms generate business online.
Yeah.
Between 2009.
2022. Yeah.
Um, then OpenAI released chat, GPT,um, AI started to enter more sort
(07:19):
of common usage despite it at thattime, still being fairly niche.
Yeah.
And quite rudimentary.
Mm-hmm.
As it has evolved over the course ofthe past two to three years, the entire
language and ecosystem has shifted.
Yeah.
Has that been reflected in the type ofquestions that are, that you are now
(07:41):
asked by your, either your law firmcustomers or your perspective law firm?
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, and it's not
always.
The top of the listing that theyshould be doing, if that makes sense.
They might have other infrastructureor legacy problems that need to be
fixed, but it brings a pressure.
It brings a pressure into theirconversation, their world.
(08:04):
It could be a pressure from,I was at an event with another
managing partner who was waxinglyrical about what they're doing.
How accurate that is, is, youknow, is, doesn't need to be
known, but it puts pressure on.
What are we doing?
What can I say?
What?
Your clients have the same thing.
Their expectations haveshifted, so the clients of law
firms expect something more.
(08:26):
They want to know how is your firm?
Considering leveraging,using AI but safely.
Um, and so that it's qualitycontrols, it doesn't bring risk to
me, but I want you to do it, to useit to potentially reduce my fees or
especially where it's labourious work.
I don't wanna pay 200 an hourfor 16 people to read, you know,
(08:46):
boxes and boxes of discovery.
There's obvious areas wherea client expectation changes.
Um, there's the referral networkand relationship pressure.
So when you're talking to yourintroducers, 'cause law firms, a
lot of their work comes throughword of mouth as well as the
brand and reputational marketing.
Um, what conversation areyou having with your network?
(09:08):
Your introducers?
Your referrers, and also yourpeople, your people want to know.
And if you don't control it from a peopleperspective, um, there was a big firm
Hillview, uh, sorry, hill Dickinson.
Yeah, yeah.
Were were noted as they had to blockChatGPT because people were just using it.
Yeah.
As a leader of a law firm, how areyou actually going to direct your
people and what's your narrativeand how do you guide them on it?
(09:31):
I don't think, I don't think doingnothing is an option, and it's not
because, uh, irrespective of whatthe AI vendors want you to do,
forget that for a minute, park that.
But as the leader of a law firm,unfortunately, I don't think
you can just sit back and it'sthe same for us, by the way.
It's the same for you.
Mm-hmm.
Same for everybody.
And so pixel.
You know, the, we work with a lotof law firms of a particular size.
(09:54):
In many cases, you'll have differentpartners responsible for different things.
Yeah.
Um, I'm the IT partner.
of One of those firms.
Yeah.
I've got a number of competinginterests for my time.
Including, including a combinedpressure of, um, billing Yes.
(10:15):
Combined with actuallyrunning the IT function.
Mm-hmm.
I don't wanna be you,
would that be a common type ofperson that you would deal with?
We help
people like, yeah, because, becauseagain, that pressure that, um.
What, what was the phrase I used before?
Where, where they've had enough ofa scenario is that it's untenable.
You can't, you can't effectively do those.
(10:37):
'cause what you end up with as the partnerleading it is all these people around you.
Letting you down.
But it's normally be, it'sa, it's a tale of two halves.
It's 'cause you're not, you can'tlead and direct and spot the gaps.
Mm. And, and you can't run it.
You can be involved in it, but it's hard
to do.
It's hard to do.
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of the Euro Law Firm Success Podcast isbrought to you by MLT Digital and Cept io.
(11:00):
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Do AI.
So imagine again, I'm in that scenario.
I'm that person.
Yeah.
I feel as if my tech is largely in order.
Yeah.
I've already worked withyou or somebody like you.
We have our case managementsystem up and running.
(12:04):
We have our voiceover ip.
Yeah.
We have our telephone systems.
We are not in a situationwhere we are firefighting.
Yeah.
Around tech.
Yeah.
But as you see, I'm being asked.
By clients and staff and I'vegot an eye in competition.
Mm, who are making noisesabout their use of it.
(12:27):
And I'm like a rabbit in the headlights.
So where do I start?
So we'll work with firms and ask themto start with their narrative on that.
You need a stance sothat you can communicate.
To all those people that we've said.
Uh, and that might be, it couldbe one short, it could be one
paragraph, it could be one piece.
(12:48):
Um, sometimes you might splitit into clients want something
slightly different compared towhat people wanna hear internally.
For example, you might have aninternal and external narrative,
but in simple terms, it's about.
The pressure it, it's about a buildingpressure pot that's coming all the time
and the steam's building up inside it.
The narrative allows you to take thatlid off and let some steam out and get
(13:10):
thought and control of what's going on.
So the best place to start is to havethat narrative, and that can rarely
be done in isolation by that leadpartner needs to be done with the other
partners, but it's about how do you.
How do you run kind of a workshop support?
It's not a term that an A partner, an ITpartner would use when running a session
with other partners, but they need toget together as a collective to say,
(13:34):
who do we need to be able to communicatewith about AI and emerging technology?
So it's our clients, ourintroducers, referrers, our people,
um, and the leadership team.
As a leadership team, we need toknow what we're, what we're doing,
and we need to all agree on howwe're gonna progress with it.
And ultimately, you need to have anarrative that gives you the confidence
(13:54):
to be able to communicate on it.
So what are the key componentsthat need to be part of.
So who are we as a firm?
Do we want to be?
Are we a high volume practice that needstechnology to be able to protect margin,
to deliver things in a time scale?
Because if you are, your narrativewill be different to if you are.
We are not that.
We are a boutique litigation firmthat is focused on specialist
(14:17):
advice at the highest level.
We are calm, collected, andcontrolled, and we're a high margin.
Low volume business.
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
So there are different scenarioswhere tech ha plays a different part.
Yeah.
And it's normally to do with the volumeand, and uh, the nature of the practice.
So it's easier if you're a specialistfirm because you're either dealing
(14:38):
with residential property and you canhave a stance, or you're dealing with
corporate and commercial litigation.
You can have a stance that that's a biteasier in my mind, when you've got a
general practice, you might need to have.
An overarching global narrative, but thenyou need some nuance for, for within it.
So it's harder, uh, the morecomplex the business is.
(14:58):
Um, but to where to start is topull that narrative together.
So if we use an example of a specialistfirm, which is the same for, uh,
a practice area in law firm, it'sabout understanding who do we need to
communicate with, what's important to us.
In terms of AI and emergingtech, who do we want to be?
We want to make sure thatquality is part of it.
We want to make sure it's controlled.
(15:18):
We want to make sure it's human led.
Uh, we want to make sure that weare running things in the right
order so tech isn't running us.
There's certain things thatwill need to be part of that
for them to stand behind it.
And what do, what do the client andthe industry expects from us as well?
And how do we merge those two, justin a really simple way to say, so when
somebody asks you what you're doingwith AI and emerging tech, you can say.
(15:40):
This is what we're doing.
This is what we think about it.
This is why we're not rushing in.
This is how we're takingcare of compliance.
This is how we're controlling, um,how we are using it, not how it's
using us, and this is how we'regonna better serve you with it.
So you can, you almost needto split it into a grid.
You.
and Then come up with your narrative.
Can you ask ChatGPT for that?
(16:02):
Uh, well you could do, couldn't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But what the output it would giveyou depends on different things.
No, exactly what you're gonna put into it.
Yeah.
Um, and do you find, is this somethingthat you're dealing with a lot now?
It's the start point
for
a lot of times.
So
with law firms, we are not doing, bearin mind, we are not a high volume.
Yeah, low margin practice.
We, we deal with boutiquefirms and there's a limit
to, to the ones we deal with.
(16:23):
So, you know, we are quite clear.
We're trying to help firms.
The start points for us is, doyou need a narrative or have
you already got a communicationlevel that you are comfortable
with, that you are already using?
If you've got that, then it'sjust, it's about starting with
use cases and looking internally.
Forget all this noise.
I saw a, a graphic the other day.
There's over 750.
(16:43):
I think I saw that as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Legal tech products.
Half of which, you know, arenot gonna be around are they?
Mm-hmm.
In a couple of years.
So you can't look at that noise.
You need to, you need to take control andownership of, of that, of that problem.
But it's where do youstart and how do you do it?
And I think it's narrative, ifyou need to communicate, takes the
pressure off and then it enables you tocommunicate internally and externally.
(17:05):
And then it's about where arewe gonna start using this?
Where's the use cases?
So I'm assuming
then, then that narrative as a saying,it's a bit like a mission statement,
an overarching statement for the firm,which is then broken down if needs be.
Obviously if you're one firm doing onestrain of work, this isn't required.
But if you're doing likea general practice firm,
(17:31):
a similar sort of sub statementfor each of those areas.
Because that will also bring intoplay the fact that, and we've
discussed this before in this, that
in many, in many environments, I dunnowhether this has changed, but certain
legal environment, it used to be thatthe clevers partner was in the room,
was the one who could spot the 1%wrong with another brilliant idea.
(17:54):
Mm-hmm.
And so you, or build
the
most,
and so you will get.
Partners who would just be like,
this is not for me.
Yeah.
But that's
why, so when you've got this, if youcall it a global narrative or a firm
narrative, if you've got 10 partnersthat are heading up practice areas for
a large regional practice, halfs kind ofcorporate and halfs, uh, private client,
(18:14):
and you might have eight of those, thatjust, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
I don't have that pressure.
I want something to communicate.
I don't need to add into it.
We we're happy to adopt that.
Mm. But you might have somebodythat's really passionate about
the residential property.
Mm.
Um, department, the narrative'sbeen crafted by the head of
corporate and commercial.
They were in very different worlds.
Mm. And they want to be able toput a bit of their own stamp on it.
(18:36):
So it's just not blocking that in my mind.
You need to do that as you, asyou would run a partnership.
That's obviously not, not my decision,but I would allow these people to.
Other individuals where they wantto, to have a bit of an input but
not bogged down the whole thing.
They might just want to be able to havea little twist on it or be able to say,
well, for us, that's not quite right,or, we want to be able to include this.
Well, how would you want to include that?
(18:58):
Well, that's fine.
And then just have their own slightamendment, you know, or addition to it.
They, they might wanna block that.
Some firms don't like it.
They wanna have things locked down,but it's not about controlling
people, it's about, it's likeyou say, a mission statement.
So if you're not gonna do that, you needsomething that you can all, in principle,
get behind, and more importantly, youcan all communicate to those people.
(19:19):
Mm-hmm.
So could you, if a, if a clientasks you what you're gonna say
mm-hmm.
When one of your people asksyou, what are you gonna say?
Mm-hmm.
Are you able to do that?
Are you confident doing it?
And do you need any trainingand support to help you do that?
And once you're able to, that's it.
It doesn't really, it's arguably,it's half about the stance.
There's certain things that need to bethere, but it's about being confident
enough to go, we know what we're doing.
(19:40):
You know, we are here to look afteryou, and this is how we're doing
it.
And so once you have thatstance, I imagine you get into
a situation where you're thensaying that we have our stance.
Mm-hmm.
Internal, external, um, compliance risk.
Yeah.
Um, I imagine that's the starting pointfor then beginning on the back of that
(20:04):
to begin considering which areas aremost appropriate for the consideration.
And potential deploymentof AI within them.
Yeah.
Is that right?
Yeah.
And
sometimes it might come the other way.
You might have a, a partner thatis chomping at the bit because
(20:25):
they're either under pressureor they can see the opportunity.
You know, everyone's different,aren't they, in terms of how they're
gonna engage with it and approachwith it, and how tech aware, tech
savvy, tech interested they are.
Um, so sometimes that pressure does,sometimes that opportunity comes from
within where there's one person going.
I'd love to be able to explore usecases within my department and there's
(20:47):
others that are just so busy with theworkload that they don't have, uh,
the capacity or the interest to do it.
And they will let one leadingpartner start a journey so that we
can, we can all benefit via osmosisfor the, for the other things that
will naturally just spread out.
'cause there are certain things thatspread out and certain things that are
Yeah,
absolutely.
Only specific to a case, not even a,not even a practice area to a case type.
(21:11):
Yeah.
Do you see what I mean?
So it's like, uh,
and you've mentionedtwice the phrase use case.
Yeah.
Can you explain, explain,sorry about that.
Well, can
you, could you explain
a bit more about that?
So the, the reason, uh, just firstly,the reason I, I mention it a lot
is 'cause a lot with technology.
There's so many vendorsthat are trying to tell you.
(21:35):
AI is available, we've got it.
This is how you use it in some cases.
And, uh, it can just be adopted.
And it's, in my opinion, bearing in mindI do, I'm engaged in this for a living
with change and understanding, um, feeearners and practice areas to how to
work with them to adopt or engage withthe change and then adopt it and use it.
(21:56):
Um, use cases is really important.
So to, to define what it isto me at a basic level is.
Irrespective of the tool 'causethere's lot, the 750 tools out there.
So if we're gonna select one,we need to understand how and
where we are going to use ai.
Within our practice area and case typeso that we can then select something.
(22:18):
So I look at it from apure selection basis.
If you don't know your requirements,you cannot select anything successfully.
It's impossible.
Mm-hmm.
So we use the same methodology thatwe've always used for selecting
a new case management system.
It's the same, what are the key componentsthat you need to use this technology
for, and what are the requirementsspecifically of how you want to use it?
(22:39):
'cause don't worry aboutwhether it's possible.
I, I, I put a hundred pound in anenvelope now, and you can have it.
If it is, it will, you know what I mean?
It's, it will be available.
Yeah.
It will be.
Um, and if it's not available, you canbuild it faster at a third of the price.
It's, it's, that's not the issue.
And the challenge is people areso busy, it's this overwhelm.
Again, everywhere you turn onany computer, go to any event,
(23:01):
any article, it's ai, ai, ai.
And you cannot.
Move forward with another demo.
You can't move forward with anotherproduct coming to the market.
You need to move forward by understandinghow you're going to use the software.
Mm-hmm.
So, I, I jump on that because it'sa generic phrase that everyone
can stop and think, well actuallyyeah, we don't know our use cases.
(23:22):
Even if they don't really knowwhere to start with, oh, what a
use case is, and they know roughlywe dunno how we're gonna use this.
So I'm standing there.
Fixed staring mouth agapeat all these events.
Thinking about a AI firststance, first approach or stage
(23:44):
one is define your stance.
And get some helpdefining your stance Yeah.
For your internal stakeholders,your clients, um, regulatory
bodies, taking into accountrisk and compliance, et cetera.
Yeah, absolutely.
Always.
Yeah.
Yep.
Once that is defined, what one hasto do is take a step back and think
(24:10):
of the areas in your practice inwhich you believe AI could help.
Mm-hmm.
In terms of efficiency.
Reducing labourious timeconsuming costly activities.
Yeah.
In a way that is compliantwith the stance Yeah.
That you've taken.
And then again, using you or somebodylike you work on identifying which
(24:34):
tools out there are likely to be able tosupport you in achieving your objectives.
Yeah.
But you, once you've donethe use case side, so.
We, we'll try and drillit down specifically.
So say, you say you have,um, a practice area, practice
areas can have many case types.
So if you, again, I keep sayingresidential 'cause it's, it's,
(24:55):
um, it's just easier, easierfor me to kind of explain it.
But you can be buying a property,selling a property, remortgaging a
property, changing a title on a property.
They, they're different things.
They might have componentsthat are the same, but they're
actually different case processes.
So.
W what you need to do is,again, you don't go wide.
You go really narrow.
You've got the stance, you knowhow you're gonna communicate.
(25:18):
You see if there's a partner thatwants to lead the charge on doing
some investigation, 'cause you needto start working towards that stance.
And it's absolutely, in mymind, it's an evolution.
There's no big bang herewithout disruption and risk.
You need to evolve this.
And it's, it's layered.
So it's about then saying, right, uh,we've got a partner that's engaged.
Um, that wants to go through this andput some time and resource into trying to
(25:42):
lift these use cases out of what we do.
From there, the next best thing to do islook at case types, be specific on, so we
did some work for a firm recently wherethey had, um, three different practice
areas, but there's like 12 or 15 casetypes in there, so, so we need to pick.
Four case types maximum.
And I'm not talking about, I'm talkingabout the individual case scenario.
(26:06):
Like buying a house.
Selling a house, remortgage.
Yeah.
So then when we did that, we canthen go through and, and understand
at a high level, let's, let'sdocument, and by document I could
mean open a Word document, type one.
And put the first stepand do all your steps.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,9, 10 steps that we have.
The high level that we go through whenthere's a case, then you go to step
(26:28):
one and you indent it in a and youjust put another layer of detail, peel
the onion and talk about what is theextra information we do within that.
So we'll, we'll effectively draw them out.
Um, a workflow diagram that says.
This is where the case comes in.
Mm-hmm.
This is what happens from a marketing andBD perspective, because as you'll be, as
you, as you know, and as you're workingwith, there's AI opportunities in there.
(26:48):
Mm-hmm.
Um, when is it then converted to a case?
Who engages with it?
What role against each of these?
Mm-hmm.
Is it secretary onboarding, team admin?
When it hit the fee earner,what system does it change from?
Is it in HubSpot for marketing?
Then it goes directly intothe case management system.
You know, you just follow it all through.
And then when you've got that by a casetype, you can start to then go through
(27:10):
it and discuss where are the problems,where is the inefficiency, where is
the labor, where is the repetition?
And think about yourboxes again, externally.
Where is the perception,the expectations changed?
Where is the pressure on.
We are getting pushed up against feeswhen we've got to do the discovery
piece because they don't, theydon't wanna pay Mm. You know, open
(27:30):
book at 200 pounds an hour anymore.
Mm. They're, they're looking fora fixed fee at 5K to do that.
So that Right.
That's an opportunity.
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
So that's, this is where you start tolift your use cases, but you do it with
your knowledge internally, not basedon what someone's trying to sell you.
Yeah.
You've got to, and then it's fromthere, you can then get into specifics.
You break that down and go,what, what tends to happen?
(27:51):
Is, there'll be certain areas thatare low hanging fruit that might
even be able to be grouped into, um,copilots a really good, safe zone.
For people to start out with.
'cause it's inherits a lot of the,um, compliance and data privacy
policy that you need and you canuse it off the back of meetings.
It's a really good wayfor firms to just engage.
(28:11):
So if there's pressure from yourpeople, co-pilot's, a great way to
give them something that you can doat scale, control it, and then start
to tailor things by practice area.
But that, that's howyou lift your use cases.
It's not, we're not talkingabout anything tech there.
We're talking aboutwhat we know as a firm.
We need to get that down.
We need to get it in a diagram.
We need to discuss the problems,where the opportunities are based on
(28:32):
where is the pressure coming from.
So where did the client'sexpectations change?
And also what?
What do our people now want?
I don't wanna be doing that bit'cause I know that tech can fix that.
'cause I'm a young fierer.
Yeah, right.
Well, we need to agree and understand howwe're actually gonna do that in a manner.
I as the partner by theway, I'm happy with that.
The regulatory bodies will be happywith, I'm the partner, oh, sorry
Steven, that you'll happy with.
(28:53):
And then, um, do you see what I mean?
And control it from that way?
Yeah.
I think one of the, one of the waysthat we try and talk to clients about
it is when you using a case managementsystem, this traditional tech.
You are using it.
You go in, you click abutton, it time records.
It does what you need and whatyou tell it to do effectively.
(29:14):
Yeah.
AI is different.
AI is how are we working, how do weneed to work as a human, how do we need
to control this case, and how can itpiggyback us to help us do it faster?
Yeah.
But our way.
Yeah.
Do you see what I mean?
You've got, it's how one is usingtechnology, case management system.
AI needs to support you in your journey.
(29:34):
Mm-hmm.
It's called co-pilot for a reason.
It's not flying the plane,the human's flying the plane.
Mm-hmm.
Human is the pilot.
Mm-hmm.
Brilliant.
And um, finally.
What, and briefly is your viewon where ai, where AI is going
in the legal sector?
Um, I think there's differentpressures in the sector.
(29:55):
So I
think if you are, for example,if you're a big corporate
firm, you know, top tier firm.
Yeah, you've got pressure fromin-house council that don't wanna be
paying your 4 million bill anymore.
So there's, that is really active.
There's a lot of pressure in-housecouncil have got budgets to go and
find tech to reduce those bills.
That is a lot of pressure.
Mm-hmm.
(30:16):
Um, the big clientshave got the same thing.
If they're spending millions of poundsa year on retainers and council,
they, they want those brought down.
Um, it all filters down in thesame way, but in terms of where it
will, where it will go, I think.
Ultimately a law firm still needsto be able to process that case.
Don't they need to be ableto deliver that case in that
(30:37):
manner that they're happy with?
Tech will help speed things up.
Some people will getthere faster than others.
I think where you're in a reallyspecialist, um, practice area, or
even you do in specific case types,you will see competitors coming out.
That'll be new start firms that are justdoing it with tech straight off the bat,
but.
(30:57):
It'll be where the lowhanging fruit is that.
Those partners will know that thecertain case types where it is just
15 steps every time, and you knowthat they are majorly under threat.
They are under threat.
And what are you gonna do about those?
That's a leadershipdiscussion because that.
That is coming.
I, I don't see any way it can change.
(31:19):
Um, but where it needs more of thehuman input and, you know, if it's
litigation for example, there'll becertain areas where you want that firm
to be using AI safely to help them.
But there's just a lot ofpressure at the minute.
And once the lids gone off and you'vegot a few things to talk about, saying,
well, your key pay point is discovery.
Yeah.
We are now doing, we've got a packagefor discovery where we do use tech.
(31:40):
It's our tool, it's tailored, it's gotall these things that are part of it.
You could start to win business.
The pressure.
Is obviously you're not losingbusiness and then you carry on, but
it's a big pressure pot at the minute.
Uh, I don't think itneeds to all be fixed now.
I think you need that narrative.
You need to protect your ground andyou need to look at realistically
where are the case types, thatif they're not automated, uh, you
(32:02):
know, someone else is gonna do it.
And even do you still wanna do it?
If it is, do you wanna,do you wanna do that?
Alright, well, brilliant.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thanks very much for your time.
As I say, um, that probablysignifies a good end.
Yeah, she said that's enough.
She's like, we stop this guy talking then.
Yeah, right.
Thank you very much, Alex.
You're welcome
Steven.
So thank you very much to Alex.
You can find him on LinkedIn, AlexHutson, um, and I'm sure you can get
(32:27):
his email address and we'll includeany more details in the comments.
So after a brief hiatus, I've comeback with a difficult second album
of the Euro Law Firm Success Podcast.
And surprisingly enough, we're givingit a strong focus on ai, but not on.
Not in the way that we see at conferencesand events and talks and sales materials.
It's really about how you can begin toseparate the wheat from the chaff as a law
(00:24):
firm owner or a law firm leader, or as alaw firm partner, looking at how you can
begin to deploy AI within your practice.
For many, it's become a st uh,almost like stage fright where
you're confronted with so much thatit's difficult to make a decision.
So in my first e episode of this newseason, I brought in Alex Hutchinson.
(00:48):
I really like Alex Hutchin as a typicalman or j or person from northern England.
He's straightforward, easyto deal with and pragmatic.
And his job is largely helping lawfirms look at the best ways in which
they can deploy it to their benefit.
To increase efficiency, maximizeproductivity, and reduce, um, roadblocks
(01:13):
or obstacles that have got my dog with me.
And again, today for this,uh, she was there for the
first one of the last series.
In this episode, what we do is wespeak to Alex and we say, we ask him.
Where do you start?
Where do you begin andhow do you get started?
How do you begin taking yourfirm down this journey that
we now know we are all on?
(01:34):
Thank you very much, Alex, for coming in.
You're the first guest of season two.
How does that feel?
I'm honored.
Honored to be of season two.
Yeah.
Um, the reason that I wanted tospeak to you is because, and after a
sort of hiatus in this, there's onesubject that's on everybody's mind.
Mm. Um.
And that's, you know, how we'regoing to live on Mars or more likely
(01:59):
in the legal sector, the use of ai.
And for one, you know, I, despite being abig user of AI in our workplace, and a fan
of what it can bring from an efficiencyand skills point of view, have been
absolutely overwhelmed and overwhelmedby its use in, uh, conferences, events.
(02:22):
Um, the delegate lists and also whatyou call 'em, the, um, exhibition
areas where vendors and sponsors are,you know, it's a complete overwhelm.
Mm. And what I wanted to do was tobring in an expert who works with
law firms around the country, helpingthem to understand how they can
deploy technology to their benefit.
(02:46):
With a view to offering some guidanceas to how law firms can begin a
law firms of all shapes and sizes.
Yeah.
Who don't have the type of resource,um, that the bigger firms might
have can begin to understand howand where they can implement.
AI into their practice.
That was meant to be an introduction.
(03:06):
It was a bit of a large monologue.
So maybe you could just tell usinitially just a brief introduction
into you and your business.
Yeah, sure.
Um, so I
operate as a fractional CTObasically, or independent IT
leadership for boutique law firm.
So we're, we're typicallydealing with firms that are
over half a million revenue.
Under 250 headcount.
(03:27):
They don't need a full-time IT directorfractional CTO or anything on the payroll.
But tech's getting in the way.
Tech can mean IT systems,software suppliers, security.
They've had enough something's preventingthem from doing what they need to do or
be where they need to be and they wannabring in some help on a temporary basis.
That's basically what we do.
(03:48):
Um.
I provide that leadership.
And then there's, there's certaintypes of projects that, that typically
would be, um,
how do these problems initiallymanifest themselves for our firms?
Like if you were to outlinemaybe the top three or four
issues that firms maybe come to.
So some, some are kind of legacyissues where you've started a firm.
(04:09):
You know, you were small, you've acquiredbits of technology and software and
systems, and that works to a degree.
But then eventually as you growin headcount, they start creaking.
And it's not just law firms likeany business owner would do.
You don't wanna go out yourway to make these changes.
'cause it's not easy to do.
They know that they don't know.
(04:30):
What new technology to pick, they don'treally wanna get involved in doing it.
So they keep going as long as they can andeventually something happens, something
happens where it becomes disruptive.
Either.
A lot of the things, um, thatspring to mind when I talk about
legacy is you'll have a piece ofsoftware that sits on a server, but
everything now is built in the cloud.
So these two things don't talk andit's getting stretched all the time.
(04:52):
So it starts to actually disruptthe firm, uh, and that's when
they need to make a change.
Or case management providers said.
You know, you're no longer on that model.
You're now software as a service.
It's 45 a month.
You need to move to this one.
You're not doing it.
It's 90 a month.
You know, there's, there's the,the environment forces it, whether
it's the internal environmentor the external environment.
Right.
Okay.
(05:12):
Or there's just a trust thing.
You know, we've gotdowntime and disruption.
Um, we can't log in or thisis going down all the time.
We've told the IT provider to fix it.
They've told us they've done it fivetimes and every time it keeps coming back.
I've had enough.
You know, and that's when they needsomebody independent just coming
in.
Understand it and take care of it.
And how do they normally find you?
(05:32):
Are you introduced or isthis online or LinkedIn?
'cause you're quite active on LinkedIn.
Yeah, I, I am active on LinkedIn.
I think what I've realized now is that,
that I like doing it.
I do like doing it.
Um, you need to be careful.
You don't do too much, too much of it.
But for me, it's useful for people inmy network to see there are law firms
that, so funnily enough they'll mentionit to you, although they won't like,
(05:53):
or yeah, comment, but it comes up inconversation saying, oh, I saw that post.
And then another client, so anotherpartner saying, oh, I saw that as well.
I said, well, neither of youliked or commented on it.
But they don't want to,they just enjoy viewing it.
So, um.
To answer the question, all ofour work comes through, through
introductions and recommendations.
So I, I literally have a networkof people that I know that
(06:14):
specialize in helping law firms.
That's only who I talk to.
That's who I spend my time with.
And you curate that yourself for thepeople that you like and you trust
and that you think can actually.
You ask them about what they do forfirms and do you believe that that
would be good advice to someoneand would you introduce them?
Mm-hmm.
They're the ones I keep in touch with.
Mm-hmm.
And it's those, it's thoserelationships that introduce work.
(06:35):
'cause a managing partnerwill be sat there.
They'll talk about a problem thatis in the sphere of it, and every
time that an intro comes up, someonewill say, you need to speak to Alex.
And that's how it starts.
And
um, and so tell me then, 'cause Iimagine it would've been broadly similar
to us, MLT Digital and that our workwas broadly had, has been broadly
(06:56):
similar in terms of the tools and thetechniques that we deployed to help
law firms generate business online.
Yeah.
Between 2009.
2022. Yeah.
Um, then OpenAI released chat, GPT,um, AI started to enter more sort
(07:19):
of common usage despite it at thattime, still being fairly niche.
Yeah.
And quite rudimentary.
Mm-hmm.
As it has evolved over the course ofthe past two to three years, the entire
language and ecosystem has shifted.
Yeah.
Has that been reflected in the type ofquestions that are, that you are now
(07:41):
asked by your, either your law firmcustomers or your perspective law firm?
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, and it's not
always.
The top of the listing that theyshould be doing, if that makes sense.
They might have other infrastructureor legacy problems that need to be
fixed, but it brings a pressure.
It brings a pressure into theirconversation, their world.
(08:04):
It could be a pressure from,I was at an event with another
managing partner who was waxinglyrical about what they're doing.
How accurate that is, is, youknow, is, doesn't need to be
known, but it puts pressure on.
What are we doing?
What can I say?
What?
Your clients have the same thing.
Their expectations haveshifted, so the clients of law
firms expect something more.
(08:26):
They want to know how is your firm?
Considering leveraging,using AI but safely.
Um, and so that it's qualitycontrols, it doesn't bring risk to
me, but I want you to do it, to useit to potentially reduce my fees or
especially where it's labourious work.
I don't wanna pay 200 an hourfor 16 people to read, you know,
(08:46):
boxes and boxes of discovery.
There's obvious areas wherea client expectation changes.
Um, there's the referral networkand relationship pressure.
So when you're talking to yourintroducers, 'cause law firms, a
lot of their work comes throughword of mouth as well as the
brand and reputational marketing.
Um, what conversation areyou having with your network?
(09:08):
Your introducers?
Your referrers, and also yourpeople, your people want to know.
And if you don't control it from a peopleperspective, um, there was a big firm
Hillview, uh, sorry, hill Dickinson.
Yeah, yeah.
Were were noted as they had to blockChatGPT because people were just using it.
Yeah.
As a leader of a law firm, how areyou actually going to direct your
people and what's your narrativeand how do you guide them on it?
(09:31):
I don't think, I don't think doingnothing is an option, and it's not
because, uh, irrespective of whatthe AI vendors want you to do,
forget that for a minute, park that.
But as the leader of a law firm,unfortunately, I don't think
you can just sit back and it'sthe same for us, by the way.
It's the same for you.
Mm-hmm.
Same for everybody.
And so pixel.
You know, the, we work with a lotof law firms of a particular size.
(09:54):
In many cases, you'll have differentpartners responsible for different things.
Yeah.
Um, I'm the IT partner.
of One of those firms.
Yeah.
I've got a number of competinginterests for my time.
Including, including a combinedpressure of, um, billing Yes.
(10:15):
Combined with actuallyrunning the IT function.
Mm-hmm.
I don't wanna be you,
would that be a common type ofperson that you would deal with?
We help
people like, yeah, because, becauseagain, that pressure that, um.
What, what was the phrase I used before?
Where, where they've had enough ofa scenario is that it's untenable.
You can't, you can't effectively do those.
(10:37):
'cause what you end up with as the partnerleading it is all these people around you.
Letting you down.
But it's normally be, it'sa, it's a tale of two halves.
It's 'cause you're not, you can'tlead and direct and spot the gaps.
Mm. And, and you can't run it.
You can be involved in it, but it's hard
to do.
It's hard to do.
This season
of the Euro Law Firm Success Podcast isbrought to you by MLT Digital and Cept io.
(11:00):
MLT Digital is the market leaderin the UK legal sector at deploying
AI to assist law firms in theironline business generation efforts.
Increasingly online business generationfor law firms has been, is a battle waged
on many fronts, and there is no one betterthan m than MLT digital in this industry
(11:21):
at maximizing the value of all channelsfor law firms to generate business.
This is now supported by receptor.
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Do AI.
So imagine again, I'm in that scenario.
I'm that person.
Yeah.
I feel as if my tech is largely in order.
Yeah.
I've already worked withyou or somebody like you.
We have our case managementsystem up and running.
(12:04):
We have our voiceover ip.
Yeah.
We have our telephone systems.
We are not in a situationwhere we are firefighting.
Yeah.
Around tech.
Yeah.
But as you see, I'm being asked.
By clients and staff and I'vegot an eye in competition.
Mm, who are making noisesabout their use of it.
(12:27):
And I'm like a rabbit in the headlights.
So where do I start?
So we'll work with firms and ask themto start with their narrative on that.
You need a stance sothat you can communicate.
To all those people that we've said.
Uh, and that might be, it couldbe one short, it could be one
paragraph, it could be one piece.
(12:48):
Um, sometimes you might splitit into clients want something
slightly different compared towhat people wanna hear internally.
For example, you might have aninternal and external narrative,
but in simple terms, it's about.
The pressure it, it's about a buildingpressure pot that's coming all the time
and the steam's building up inside it.
The narrative allows you to take thatlid off and let some steam out and get
(13:10):
thought and control of what's going on.
So the best place to start is to havethat narrative, and that can rarely
be done in isolation by that leadpartner needs to be done with the other
partners, but it's about how do you.
How do you run kind of a workshop support?
It's not a term that an A partner, an ITpartner would use when running a session
with other partners, but they need toget together as a collective to say,
(13:34):
who do we need to be able to communicatewith about AI and emerging technology?
So it's our clients, ourintroducers, referrers, our people,
um, and the leadership team.
As a leadership team, we need toknow what we're, what we're doing,
and we need to all agree on howwe're gonna progress with it.
And ultimately, you need to have anarrative that gives you the confidence
(13:54):
to be able to communicate on it.
So what are the key componentsthat need to be part of.
So who are we as a firm?
Do we want to be?
Are we a high volume practice that needstechnology to be able to protect margin,
to deliver things in a time scale?
Because if you are, your narrativewill be different to if you are.
We are not that.
We are a boutique litigation firmthat is focused on specialist
(14:17):
advice at the highest level.
We are calm, collected, andcontrolled, and we're a high margin.
Low volume business.
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
So there are different scenarioswhere tech ha plays a different part.
Yeah.
And it's normally to do with the volumeand, and uh, the nature of the practice.
So it's easier if you're a specialistfirm because you're either dealing
(14:38):
with residential property and you canhave a stance, or you're dealing with
corporate and commercial litigation.
You can have a stance that that's a biteasier in my mind, when you've got a
general practice, you might need to have.
An overarching global narrative, but thenyou need some nuance for, for within it.
So it's harder, uh, the morecomplex the business is.
(14:58):
Um, but to where to start is topull that narrative together.
So if we use an example of a specialistfirm, which is the same for, uh,
a practice area in law firm, it'sabout understanding who do we need to
communicate with, what's important to us.
In terms of AI and emergingtech, who do we want to be?
We want to make sure thatquality is part of it.
We want to make sure it's controlled.
(15:18):
We want to make sure it's human led.
Uh, we want to make sure that weare running things in the right
order so tech isn't running us.
There's certain things thatwill need to be part of that
for them to stand behind it.
And what do, what do the client andthe industry expects from us as well?
And how do we merge those two, justin a really simple way to say, so when
somebody asks you what you're doingwith AI and emerging tech, you can say.
(15:40):
This is what we're doing.
This is what we think about it.
This is why we're not rushing in.
This is how we're takingcare of compliance.
This is how we're controlling, um,how we are using it, not how it's
using us, and this is how we'regonna better serve you with it.
So you can, you almost needto split it into a grid.
You.
and Then come up with your narrative.
Can you ask ChatGPT for that?
(16:02):
Uh, well you could do, couldn't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But what the output it would giveyou depends on different things.
No, exactly what you're gonna put into it.
Yeah.
Um, and do you find, is this somethingthat you're dealing with a lot now?
It's the start point
for
a lot of times.
So
with law firms, we are not doing, bearin mind, we are not a high volume.
Yeah, low margin practice.
We, we deal with boutiquefirms and there's a limit
to, to the ones we deal with.
(16:23):
So, you know, we are quite clear.
We're trying to help firms.
The start points for us is, doyou need a narrative or have
you already got a communicationlevel that you are comfortable
with, that you are already using?
If you've got that, then it'sjust, it's about starting with
use cases and looking internally.
Forget all this noise.
I saw a, a graphic the other day.
There's over 750.
(16:43):
I think I saw that as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Legal tech products.
Half of which, you know, arenot gonna be around are they?
Mm-hmm.
In a couple of years.
So you can't look at that noise.
You need to, you need to take control andownership of, of that, of that problem.
But it's where do youstart and how do you do it?
And I think it's narrative, ifyou need to communicate, takes the
pressure off and then it enables you tocommunicate internally and externally.
(17:05):
And then it's about where arewe gonna start using this?
Where's the use cases?
So I'm assuming
then, then that narrative as a saying,it's a bit like a mission statement,
an overarching statement for the firm,which is then broken down if needs be.
Obviously if you're one firm doing onestrain of work, this isn't required.
But if you're doing likea general practice firm,
(17:31):
a similar sort of sub statementfor each of those areas.
Because that will also bring intoplay the fact that, and we've
discussed this before in this, that
in many, in many environments, I dunnowhether this has changed, but certain
legal environment, it used to be thatthe clevers partner was in the room,
was the one who could spot the 1%wrong with another brilliant idea.
(17:54):
Mm-hmm.
And so you, or build
the
most,
and so you will get.
Partners who would just be like,
this is not for me.
Yeah.
But that's
why, so when you've got this, if youcall it a global narrative or a firm
narrative, if you've got 10 partnersthat are heading up practice areas for
a large regional practice, halfs kind ofcorporate and halfs, uh, private client,
(18:14):
and you might have eight of those, thatjust, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
I don't have that pressure.
I want something to communicate.
I don't need to add into it.
We we're happy to adopt that.
Mm. But you might have somebodythat's really passionate about
the residential property.
Mm.
Um, department, the narrative'sbeen crafted by the head of
corporate and commercial.
They were in very different worlds.
Mm. And they want to be able toput a bit of their own stamp on it.
(18:36):
So it's just not blocking that in my mind.
You need to do that as you, asyou would run a partnership.
That's obviously not, not my decision,but I would allow these people to.
Other individuals where they wantto, to have a bit of an input but
not bogged down the whole thing.
They might just want to be able to havea little twist on it or be able to say,
well, for us, that's not quite right,or, we want to be able to include this.
Well, how would you want to include that?
(18:58):
Well, that's fine.
And then just have their own slightamendment, you know, or addition to it.
They, they might wanna block that.
Some firms don't like it.
They wanna have things locked down,but it's not about controlling
people, it's about, it's likeyou say, a mission statement.
So if you're not gonna do that, you needsomething that you can all, in principle,
get behind, and more importantly, youcan all communicate to those people.
(19:19):
Mm-hmm.
So could you, if a, if a clientasks you what you're gonna say
mm-hmm.
When one of your people asksyou, what are you gonna say?
Mm-hmm.
Are you able to do that?
Are you confident doing it?
And do you need any trainingand support to help you do that?
And once you're able to, that's it.
It doesn't really, it's arguably,it's half about the stance.
There's certain things that need to bethere, but it's about being confident
enough to go, we know what we're doing.
(19:40):
You know, we are here to look afteryou, and this is how we're doing
it.
And so once you have thatstance, I imagine you get into
a situation where you're thensaying that we have our stance.
Mm-hmm.
Internal, external, um, compliance risk.
Yeah.
Um, I imagine that's the starting pointfor then beginning on the back of that
(20:04):
to begin considering which areas aremost appropriate for the consideration.
And potential deploymentof AI within them.
Yeah.
Is that right?
Yeah.
And
sometimes it might come the other way.
You might have a, a partner thatis chomping at the bit because
(20:25):
they're either under pressureor they can see the opportunity.
You know, everyone's different,aren't they, in terms of how they're
gonna engage with it and approachwith it, and how tech aware, tech
savvy, tech interested they are.
Um, so sometimes that pressure does,sometimes that opportunity comes from
within where there's one person going.
I'd love to be able to explore usecases within my department and there's
(20:47):
others that are just so busy with theworkload that they don't have, uh,
the capacity or the interest to do it.
And they will let one leadingpartner start a journey so that we
can, we can all benefit via osmosisfor the, for the other things that
will naturally just spread out.
'cause there are certain things thatspread out and certain things that are
Yeah,
absolutely.
Only specific to a case, not even a,not even a practice area to a case type.
(21:11):
Yeah.
Do you see what I mean?
So it's like, uh,
and you've mentionedtwice the phrase use case.
Yeah.
Can you explain, explain,sorry about that.
Well, can
you, could you explain
a bit more about that?
So the, the reason, uh, just firstly,the reason I, I mention it a lot
is 'cause a lot with technology.
There's so many vendorsthat are trying to tell you.
(21:35):
AI is available, we've got it.
This is how you use it in some cases.
And, uh, it can just be adopted.
And it's, in my opinion, bearing in mindI do, I'm engaged in this for a living
with change and understanding, um, feeearners and practice areas to how to
work with them to adopt or engage withthe change and then adopt it and use it.
(21:56):
Um, use cases is really important.
So to, to define what it isto me at a basic level is.
Irrespective of the tool 'causethere's lot, the 750 tools out there.
So if we're gonna select one,we need to understand how and
where we are going to use ai.
Within our practice area and case typeso that we can then select something.
(22:18):
So I look at it from apure selection basis.
If you don't know your requirements,you cannot select anything successfully.
It's impossible.
Mm-hmm.
So we use the same methodology thatwe've always used for selecting
a new case management system.
It's the same, what are the key componentsthat you need to use this technology
for, and what are the requirementsspecifically of how you want to use it?
(22:39):
'cause don't worry aboutwhether it's possible.
I, I, I put a hundred pound in anenvelope now, and you can have it.
If it is, it will, you know what I mean?
It's, it will be available.
Yeah.
It will be.
Um, and if it's not available, you canbuild it faster at a third of the price.
It's, it's, that's not the issue.
And the challenge is people areso busy, it's this overwhelm.
Again, everywhere you turn onany computer, go to any event,
(23:01):
any article, it's ai, ai, ai.
And you cannot.
Move forward with another demo.
You can't move forward with anotherproduct coming to the market.
You need to move forward by understandinghow you're going to use the software.
Mm-hmm.
So, I, I jump on that because it'sa generic phrase that everyone
can stop and think, well actuallyyeah, we don't know our use cases.
(23:22):
Even if they don't really knowwhere to start with, oh, what a
use case is, and they know roughlywe dunno how we're gonna use this.
So I'm standing there.
Fixed staring mouth agapeat all these events.
Thinking about a AI firststance, first approach or stage
(23:44):
one is define your stance.
And get some helpdefining your stance Yeah.
For your internal stakeholders,your clients, um, regulatory
bodies, taking into accountrisk and compliance, et cetera.
Yeah, absolutely.
Always.
Yeah.
Yep.
Once that is defined, what one hasto do is take a step back and think
(24:10):
of the areas in your practice inwhich you believe AI could help.
Mm-hmm.
In terms of efficiency.
Reducing labourious timeconsuming costly activities.
Yeah.
In a way that is compliantwith the stance Yeah.
That you've taken.
And then again, using you or somebodylike you work on identifying which
(24:34):
tools out there are likely to be able tosupport you in achieving your objectives.
Yeah.
But you, once you've donethe use case side, so.
We, we'll try and drillit down specifically.
So say, you say you have,um, a practice area, practice
areas can have many case types.
So if you, again, I keep sayingresidential 'cause it's, it's,
(24:55):
um, it's just easier, easierfor me to kind of explain it.
But you can be buying a property,selling a property, remortgaging a
property, changing a title on a property.
They, they're different things.
They might have componentsthat are the same, but they're
actually different case processes.
So.
W what you need to do is,again, you don't go wide.
You go really narrow.
You've got the stance, you knowhow you're gonna communicate.
(25:18):
You see if there's a partner thatwants to lead the charge on doing
some investigation, 'cause you needto start working towards that stance.
And it's absolutely, in mymind, it's an evolution.
There's no big bang herewithout disruption and risk.
You need to evolve this.
And it's, it's layered.
So it's about then saying, right, uh,we've got a partner that's engaged.
Um, that wants to go through this andput some time and resource into trying to
(25:42):
lift these use cases out of what we do.
From there, the next best thing to do islook at case types, be specific on, so we
did some work for a firm recently wherethey had, um, three different practice
areas, but there's like 12 or 15 casetypes in there, so, so we need to pick.
Four case types maximum.
And I'm not talking about, I'm talkingabout the individual case scenario.
(26:06):
Like buying a house.
Selling a house, remortgage.
Yeah.
So then when we did that, we canthen go through and, and understand
at a high level, let's, let'sdocument, and by document I could
mean open a Word document, type one.
And put the first stepand do all your steps.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,9, 10 steps that we have.
The high level that we go through whenthere's a case, then you go to step
(26:28):
one and you indent it in a and youjust put another layer of detail, peel
the onion and talk about what is theextra information we do within that.
So we'll, we'll effectively draw them out.
Um, a workflow diagram that says.
This is where the case comes in.
Mm-hmm.
This is what happens from a marketing andBD perspective, because as you'll be, as
you, as you know, and as you're workingwith, there's AI opportunities in there.
(26:48):
Mm-hmm.
Um, when is it then converted to a case?
Who engages with it?
What role against each of these?
Mm-hmm.
Is it secretary onboarding, team admin?
When it hit the fee earner,what system does it change from?
Is it in HubSpot for marketing?
Then it goes directly intothe case management system.
You know, you just follow it all through.
And then when you've got that by a casetype, you can start to then go through
(27:10):
it and discuss where are the problems,where is the inefficiency, where is
the labor, where is the repetition?
And think about yourboxes again, externally.
Where is the perception,the expectations changed?
Where is the pressure on.
We are getting pushed up against feeswhen we've got to do the discovery
piece because they don't, theydon't wanna pay Mm. You know, open
(27:30):
book at 200 pounds an hour anymore.
Mm. They're, they're looking fora fixed fee at 5K to do that.
So that Right.
That's an opportunity.
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
So that's, this is where you start tolift your use cases, but you do it with
your knowledge internally, not basedon what someone's trying to sell you.
Yeah.
You've got to, and then it's fromthere, you can then get into specifics.
You break that down and go,what, what tends to happen?
(27:51):
Is, there'll be certain areas thatare low hanging fruit that might
even be able to be grouped into, um,copilots a really good, safe zone.
For people to start out with.
'cause it's inherits a lot of the,um, compliance and data privacy
policy that you need and you canuse it off the back of meetings.
It's a really good wayfor firms to just engage.
(28:11):
So if there's pressure from yourpeople, co-pilot's, a great way to
give them something that you can doat scale, control it, and then start
to tailor things by practice area.
But that, that's howyou lift your use cases.
It's not, we're not talkingabout anything tech there.
We're talking aboutwhat we know as a firm.
We need to get that down.
We need to get it in a diagram.
We need to discuss the problems,where the opportunities are based on
(28:32):
where is the pressure coming from.
So where did the client'sexpectations change?
And also what?
What do our people now want?
I don't wanna be doing that bit'cause I know that tech can fix that.
'cause I'm a young fierer.
Yeah, right.
Well, we need to agree and understand howwe're actually gonna do that in a manner.
I as the partner by theway, I'm happy with that.
The regulatory bodies will be happywith, I'm the partner, oh, sorry
Steven, that you'll happy with.
(28:53):
And then, um, do you see what I mean?
And control it from that way?
Yeah.
I think one of the, one of the waysthat we try and talk to clients about
it is when you using a case managementsystem, this traditional tech.
You are using it.
You go in, you click abutton, it time records.
It does what you need and whatyou tell it to do effectively.
(29:14):
Yeah.
AI is different.
AI is how are we working, how do weneed to work as a human, how do we need
to control this case, and how can itpiggyback us to help us do it faster?
Yeah.
But our way.
Yeah.
Do you see what I mean?
You've got, it's how one is usingtechnology, case management system.
AI needs to support you in your journey.
(29:34):
Mm-hmm.
It's called co-pilot for a reason.
It's not flying the plane,the human's flying the plane.
Mm-hmm.
Human is the pilot.
Mm-hmm.
Brilliant.
And um, finally.
What, and briefly is your viewon where ai, where AI is going
in the legal sector?
Um, I think there's differentpressures in the sector.
(29:55):
So I
think if you are, for example,if you're a big corporate
firm, you know, top tier firm.
Yeah, you've got pressure fromin-house council that don't wanna be
paying your 4 million bill anymore.
So there's, that is really active.
There's a lot of pressure in-housecouncil have got budgets to go and
find tech to reduce those bills.
That is a lot of pressure.
Mm-hmm.
(30:16):
Um, the big clientshave got the same thing.
If they're spending millions of poundsa year on retainers and council,
they, they want those brought down.
Um, it all filters down in thesame way, but in terms of where it
will, where it will go, I think.
Ultimately a law firm still needsto be able to process that case.
Don't they need to be ableto deliver that case in that
(30:37):
manner that they're happy with?
Tech will help speed things up.
Some people will getthere faster than others.
I think where you're in a reallyspecialist, um, practice area, or
even you do in specific case types,you will see competitors coming out.
That'll be new start firms that are justdoing it with tech straight off the bat,
but.
(30:57):
It'll be where the lowhanging fruit is that.
Those partners will know that thecertain case types where it is just
15 steps every time, and you knowthat they are majorly under threat.
They are under threat.
And what are you gonna do about those?
That's a leadershipdiscussion because that.
That is coming.
I, I don't see any way it can change.
(31:19):
Um, but where it needs more of thehuman input and, you know, if it's
litigation for example, there'll becertain areas where you want that firm
to be using AI safely to help them.
But there's just a lot ofpressure at the minute.
And once the lids gone off and you'vegot a few things to talk about, saying,
well, your key pay point is discovery.
Yeah.
We are now doing, we've got a packagefor discovery where we do use tech.
(31:40):
It's our tool, it's tailored, it's gotall these things that are part of it.
You could start to win business.
The pressure.
Is obviously you're not losingbusiness and then you carry on, but
it's a big pressure pot at the minute.
Uh, I don't think itneeds to all be fixed now.
I think you need that narrative.
You need to protect your ground andyou need to look at realistically
where are the case types, thatif they're not automated, uh, you
(32:02):
know, someone else is gonna do it.
And even do you still wanna do it?
If it is, do you wanna,do you wanna do that?
Alright, well, brilliant.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thanks very much for your time.
As I say, um, that probablysignifies a good end.
Yeah, she said that's enough.
She's like, we stop this guy talking then.
Yeah, right.
Thank you very much, Alex.
You're welcome
Steven.
So thank you very much to Alex.
You can find him on LinkedIn, AlexHutson, um, and I'm sure you can get
(32:27):
his email address and we'll includeany more details in the comments.
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