April 28, 2026 • 45 mins
Amy Meislin Pollack was a teacher for over four decades. From her own childhood, to the classroom, to being a parent of three and grandparent to seven, she’s perfectly positioned to write her coming-of-age book series based on a mischievous young girl, Jillian Kramer, who everyone calls Jelly Bean. After 60 years of occasionally working on her Jelly Bean books, Amy took advantage of the Covid pandemic to finish them.
The series began with The Adventures of Jelly Bean, which first came to Amy when her fourth-grade teacher asked her to get up in front of the class and tell stories about Jelly Bean, which she would make up as she went along. Several years later she began writing down the Jelly Bean stories, and would work on them periodically in any free time she had during her teaching career and while raising her three children.
The second in the series, The Further Adventures of JellyBean, was followed up by The Still Further Adventures of Jelly Bean, which I’ve read. It’s a charming take on the emotional challenges confronting Jelly Bean as she tries to navigate through the relentless turmoil of growing up. She tries to work out relationships with her friends, her parents, her older brothers, and her uncle among others. Jelly Bean’s parents don’t want her best friend, who is of mixed race, to visit. Another friend is anorexic. One brother drops out of school. A grandparent dies. In other words, it’s about the struggles many young girls face as they grow up.
Amy earned advanced degrees from the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education and NYU. For six years Amy was a professor of writing, and a teacher in the tutoring center at Montclair State University.
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Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat.
(00:02):
I did bring him some of my writing and he wrote meback and said, you dialogue crackles, which I
always remembered. But, and this is so funny tothink back on, you need more experience. You need
to have more experiences. Uh, I think about thatnow. And he was right. Because what did I know at
that time?
(00:23):
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden a podcast forthe creative mind. Story Beat explores how masters
of creation creativity develop and producebrilliant works that people everywhere love and
admire. So join us as we discover how talentedcreators find success in the worlds of imagination
(00:45):
and entertainment. Here now is your host, SteveCuden.
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My guest today, Amy Maislen Pollock,was a teacher for over four decades. From her own
(01:06):
childhood to the classroom to being a parent ofthree and grandparent to seven, she's perfectly
positioned to write her coming of age book seriesbased on a mischievous young girl, Gillian Kramer,
who everyone calls jellybean. After 60 years ofoccasionally working on her Jellybean books, Amy
took advantage of the COVID pandemic to to worktoward finishing them. The series began with the
(01:29):
Adventures of Jellybean, which first came to Amywhen her fourth grade teacher asked her to get up
in front of the class and tell stories aboutJellybean, which she would make up as she went
along. Several years later, she began writing downthe Jellybean stories and would work on them
periodically in any free time she had during herteaching career and while raising her three
(01:49):
children. The second in the series, the FurtherAdventures of Jellybean, was followed up by the
Still Further Adventures of Jellybean, which,which I've read. It's a charming take on the
emotional challenges confronting Jellybean as shetries to navigate through the relentless turmoil
of growing up. She tries to work out relationshipswith her friends, her parents, her older brothers,
(02:11):
and her uncle, among others. Jellybean's parentsdon't want her best friend, who is of mixed race,
to visit. Another friend is anorexic. One brotherdrops out of school, a grandparent diesel. In
other words, it's about the struggles many younggirls face as they grow up. Amy earned advanced
degrees from the University of PennsylvaniaGraduate School of Education. For six years, she
(02:33):
was a professor of writing and a teacher in thetutoring center at Montclair State University. So
for all those reasons and many more, I'm trulydelighted to have the longtime educator and
excellent writer Amy Pollack join me on Story Beattoday. Amy, welcome to the show.
Oh, uh, thank you, Steve. Glad to be here.
It's a great pleasure to have you. So I know youwere quite young, obviously, when you started
(02:55):
making up jelly bean stories.
Amy Pollack (02:57):
Yes.
But exactly how old were you when you first becameinterested in words and writing?
Oh, uh, as early as I can remember. I know. My dadused to take me to the library every weekend in
the mornings and we'd pick out books, come backand read them. He just read me everything from the
Bible and Greek mythology and onto all of Dickens.
(03:21):
Well, I started reading them myself after a while,but between the ages of 9 and 16. So I always
loved reading and I loved writing.
What were the books that you most enjoyed when youwere that young?
Oh, gosh. Well, I do remember them pretty clearly.
ABC books. I loved biographies. I would read shelffulls. And, um, when I was young and would read to
(03:44):
myself, I loved Nancy Drewes. I liked all theclassics. Oh, gosh.
So you were reading everything then?
I was, I was pretty eclectic, yes. In my tastes.
Was your head full of made up characters at thesame time?
Pretty much, yes. Yes, I did have a pretty vividimagination and that did kind of continue. And
(04:06):
certain. I can remember very selectively. Socertain things would stick out in my mind, others
not so. So much so later on when I was assigned tobe teaching math and science. And I did it because
that's where the jobs took me. But it was more ofa struggle for me than the English and languages.
And then onto writing, which was teaching writing,which was my favorite.
(04:30):
You've always enjoyed, uh, teaching. Obviouslyyou've taught for a very long time and you were
always, even as a kid then, a storyteller. Youwere telling stories not only in school, I assume,
but. But to your friends and family as well.
Yes, yes, they did, uh, really always enjoy. Imean, there's plenty of things I can't do very
well, but that's one thing that I could. And theywere always entertained and entertaining and we'd
(04:55):
also get into various types of mischief, which iskind of fun to remember.
Well, do you think that your writing has been anextension of your teaching? Do you think you're
teaching still?
Hmm. M. Probably. Yes. Yes. I never quite thoughtof it that way, but yes, that does actually sound
pretty, pretty accurate. That's interesting.
(05:17):
Yes, that's, uh. As a writer myself, I. Long timeago, well, not so long ago, but, uh, a while ago,
I thought to myself, the writing that I do is alsoa form of teaching because I too taught for 10
years here in Pittsburgh But I think that that'san important thing for writers to consider
sometimes is, are you teaching something? Youdon't have to, but that's a way to think about it.
(05:38):
Um, what. What do you think that teaching hastaught you about being a writer?
Oh, gosh. Well, first of all, you run into so manydifferent kinds of boys and girls, like, just the
gamut. I've taught in many different kinds ofschools of different economic background,
different racial and ethnic backgrounds. And it'sall, you know, like the poem goes, the child's the
(06:03):
father of the man. And, uh, from my own childrenand from their friends and from the students,
you're just always, always, always learning.
Well, I think that's true for sure. How did youmanage with as busy a schedule as you had teaching
and raising kids, how did you ever find time towrite at all?
Well, that was a little bit of a problem. And as Isaid, you brought it up that, um, Covid actually
(06:29):
made m forced me during the pandemic to sit downand actually complete these books. I'd written
other things, but these were always there kind ofon the back burner, which, you know, every so
often I think, gee, I really should get back tothat. And I give presentations in a lot of the
(06:50):
schools, mostly to third, fourth, fifth and sixthgraders. That's who I mainly write for middle
grade boys and girls. And I'd always say, okay,who here knows what procrastination is? Well,
every. Practically every hand goes, oh, my mothersays I do that. And I'll say I was very guilty of
(07:11):
that. I have a million excuses as to why I neverfinished these. It took me 60 some odd years to
finish these, which is crazy. You know, who goesaround thinking they have that much time? I mean,
speaking for myself, I guess I don't reallyrecommend procrastinating, but it was hard with
all everything else I was doing.
(07:32):
So you're saying that you had more m or lessdeveloped all three of these books as you were
going along in life, and then along comes thepandemic and that sort of got you to sit down and
finish all three, Is that what you're saying?
Well, uh, somewhat. What happened was I finishedthe first book during the pandemic and sent it
(07:54):
around because, as you said, do you have anystories vis a vis this? And I had a cousin who I
happened to be sitting next to at a family event,and she helped me with telling me exactly who I
should send my story around to that you need a.
And I'm. I've paid this Forward many times topeople that ask me, you need a one pager about
(08:19):
yourself and your book. And I'd say, oh, I haveone, but it's about three pages. And she'd say,
no, you can't do that. Someone in a big pile ofstuff, they're reading. They're not going to sit
and read if you're a new writer. So I learned alot from her. From that.
Did you receive formal training as a writer? Not awriting teacher, which obviously you have, but did
(08:42):
you go to school and learn how to write in schoolas well?
So that's interesting because I did take coursesnot at nyu, but at the New School. And that helped
me. Those courses were very good. I used to go inlike one day a week and there were some very good
teachers there. And I hadn't thought about that inquite a while. It helped me be able to put my
(09:06):
words in a better format, like be more organizedabout my writing, I guess.
And then the, the. I guess you didn't really need,uh, to learn a whole lot about the art, uh, of
storytelling because you'd been doing it forever.
Oh, and I'd been reading so much. And you learnedjust so much from your reading.
(09:26):
It's not possible to become a successful writerwithout doing a lot of reading, I think.
No, right. I mean, when I would teach, and I loveteaching English at the high school where I
taught, that was great, you know, aside fromhaving a discipline. And uh, any teacher will tell
you that about. That's why college is. Most of thekids kind of want to be there for the most part.
(09:48):
Except for the ones that were sleeping. Butthat's, uh. I digress.
I had a few of those too. So I understand.
It happens. Um, but in the high school they had.
It was a very good curriculum. Even I had kidsthat were not college bound and let's say slower
learners, um, want to try to use the rightterminology to the ones that were various. A whole
(10:12):
variety of levels. And I just learned so much, notonly from them, but from what I was teaching. Like
the short story unit was so good. Like, I don'tknow if these things stick in my mind. And it's
one of my son's favorite, um, favorite stories.
The Most Dangerous Game.
Steve Cuden (10:30):
Yes.
So that for one example is just so well crafted.
And it's just one of those stories where you canpeel back the onion and find out the real kernel
of truth in the middle and what it's about andwhat it signifies. That's just one example. And
there's the, uh, we did the Open Window in thisshort story unit. Have you ever read that one?
(10:50):
I've never read that one. I'm trying to. TheDangerous Game. I know I've read it. I can't
remember who wrote it. Who wrote that?
Oh, gosh. Um, now you're asking me difficultquestions. I'll probably think of it after I hang
up.
I might think of it too. Yeah, for sure. Uh, but Ido remember reading Dangerous Game when I was a
young man.
That's from like 1920. A man who, you know, goesafter as prey, other humans.
(11:14):
So when, at what point, uh, you'd gone all theseyears, you finally finished at least the first
book. Uh, when did you think to yourself, you knowwhat, this is actually good enough to be
published. What was the epiphany that said, yeah,I'm gonna put this out in the world?
Oh, that's an interesting question. I mean, I washoping it was good. Guess I have the confidence in
(11:38):
that aspect of my life. Uh, I guess after youreach a certain point and helping with your
students and telling them, you can do this, Ican't tell you how, but you'll get there. When
they would say things like, you know, whoa, uh,what if, what if, what if? I don't. And my own
children to have to encourage. And now with mygrandchildren and I guess it. And my parents, I
(12:02):
have to say, were always very encouraging to me. Iwas very, very lucky in that you just kind of take
it for granted. Things about your parents speakingfor myself growing up. And then you see what other
people go through. Like one time in my, um,teaching freshman writing class I taught at
Montclair State, I went around the room and wewere each the assignment they had to write about a
(12:27):
conflict. By the end of that, they each had to saywhat their conflict was they were going to write
about. I was in tears. They had the saddeststories for real family stuff. And so I'm like,
God, I was lucky with that.
Well, uh, obviously, if you've got. There'snothing more satisfying to me as a teacher than
(12:50):
having students that are giving you back somethingthat's wonderful.
A (12:53):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Mm mhm.
I mean, that's a really critical thing in aclassroom, I think. But so at some point you.
Amy Pollack (13:01):
What'd you do?
Did you send it around to publishers?
Oh, well, again, this cousin of mine, Ariel,helped me with, I've given her credit in my
forwards, um, who, uh, who I should try to send mystories to. And she said it has to be people that
are taking you know a brand new writer. You canlook in writer's market and it'll give you all
(13:22):
this information and someone you should funnybecause we were talking about your past shows. Um,
you know you should look at some of the thingsthey have published and try to find someone who
would seem to be simpatico with you what you'rewriting about and try those like don't go for
someone who likes science fiction because I don'twrite that. Yeah. That kind of thing. Try to find
(13:49):
publishers who um. Seem like they would like yourhopefully like what you're writing.
So what category do you think your book fallsinto? Is it ya?
Oh no, because that's. That's teenagers. I writefor preteens. And everyone asks what's gonna
happen when she gets older. Because I am gonnacontinue my series. Cause many people. Yes. And
(14:13):
she is going to get older for now for these threebooks. And I'm in the middle of my book four where
she's only in fifth grade so far my maincharacter. So I have no cursing and I have no uh.
M. Nothing sexual because it's for um. Ages prettymuch 7. If it's a advanced type of reader ages 7
(14:36):
or let's say 8 to 12 past that they probably wouldfind it too babyish. I think for the most part.
Although it depends on the reader.
I've got to assume there's a fairly healthy marketfor that kind of uh. Story.
Yeah, does appear to be. I know my. My books seemto be pretty popular and I think they're also what
(14:57):
goes on in my books. As you were describing Steveis very, very relatable to many kids. Like
conflicts with her parents. Her parents don't likea best friend. That happens pretty much 98% of the
time. The more because a lot of the kids wouldconfide in me and I know from my own children and
(15:18):
their friends, you know that kind of thinghappens. They don't like a friend for X and such
reason.
So I, you know when I read the books or uh. Thebook I read the one book. Uh, I felt that it was
covering huge amounts of ground and in terms ofthe way that kids experience the world. I'm
assuming that was your intention.
(15:38):
Yes, very much so. My book is. It's prettyupfront, it's pretty honest about how she feels
and I like all the generations. Well especially Iguess being a grandmother that often like the
mother is so mad at which happens. I've been amom, you know for something she's doing something
(16:02):
jelly bean is doing that the mother. Motherdoesn't really approve of. The dad usually goes
along with her, which, you know, happened in myfamily a fair amount. As far as a whole gamut of
things that go on in my books. Yeah, it's like agrandparent dying many times. It's things I
experience myself.
Well, that's. Well, let's get into that a littlebit. Let's talk about the book itself. Let's go
(16:24):
way back in time. Where was the inspiration for.
Back when you were in the fourth grade for JellyBean? Where did that come from?
So, uh, you know, I try to think about thatbecause people ask me and I think it just kind of
sprung out of my head and as you were asking mewhat books I liked. And I think, what can I say?
Mine was based on just a lot of my. A lot of myreading. Gosh. I mean, I loved Robert Louis
(16:50):
Stevenson with all these wonderful characters.
Dickens had a, uh, gazillion various types ofcharacters, and I guess they kind of stuck in my
mind and resonated with me. And also people I knewand things that. I guess I was just pretty
creative. And I could think of these things. As Isaid, by contrast, when I was assigned to teaching
(17:17):
math and sciences, that did not come to menaturally, whereas this did. So I guess it's a
right brain, left brain.
When you're a young person and something comesnaturally and makes your life easy in some way,
you glom onto that, you head toward that.
Yes. And so did my teacher. And I remember her sovividly. My fourth grade teacher and some
(17:41):
classmates of mine from then. And I'm talkingabout Steve, like 63 years ago, I met while we
went to another classmate's funeral and someonebrought with them something I had written and I
had turned my stories into a play and giveneverybody parts. I didn't even remember that. And
I was like, betsy. You know, these are popularnames at the time, which I had to change along the
(18:03):
way actually, to make them more okurant. So Isaid, you know, most people my age have moved at
least once or twice on average. Still have this,uh. I couldn't even believe it. I'm like, wowee.
So tell the listeners a little bit about what thewhole book is about, what the Still Adventures of
Jellybean is about.
She's in fifth grade now and she has to deal withsome challenges and some changes, as we all do.
(18:32):
But for a 10, uh, year old, it can be a littlerough. Her grandmother, who has been living in her
room, moves away and she Moves to Florida, shegets remarried. And at first, Jelly Beans, like,
you know, she says what she feels. Why aren't youhappy with us? You know, we. Everyone loves you
(18:55):
here. And she's in Jelly Bean's room and she'sbeing a grandmother myself. You know, you have a
little more time than you usually than your momhas. Um, when I was a mother, I was certainly
busier, um, with more pressing matters. But thegrandma who lives in her room, which Jelly Bean at
first thought, hmm, Hm, I don't know how that'sgonna go. But she loved having more attention.
(19:19):
And, uh, her grandmother is a very good listener,as my mom was. And so she's gonna lose that.
Well, you know, we'll communicate and you'll comedown and she's like, well, you
know, that's not gonna be the same. Which, ofcourse it's not. And her best friend moves away.
Also her best friend, who the mother hasn't beenthat keen about. Um, and Jelly Bean has confronted
(19:44):
her in my first Adventures of Jellybean book andsaid, you just don't like her because she's poor.
Which would get said in a lot of households. Butof course, the mother's. No, no, no, that's not
it. But she's someone, um. Brittany, who's veryspunky and Jellybean has just adored her and loved
(20:06):
being with her. And this happens to a lot of kids.
I know. It happened to me when my closest friendmoved away in grade school.
It's very hard.
The kid, the little girl who you prefer more thananyone to be with. Um, but she's moving with her
family. It's a little tricky as a kid when you'refiguring out what makes her special, what makes
(20:32):
people respond to her. Whereas if someone elsesaid the same kind of thing, it wouldn't work out.
But isn't that the way it is with all humans? Iswe have chemistry with certain people and certain
people we don't have chemistry with. And there'ssomething that we like about this person, but we.
Even though everybody thinks they're the mostpopular person, you may like them or not like
them. Right?
Yeah, exactly. And Jelly Bean does continue tohave her ups and downs with popularity, but which
(20:58):
is another. I, uh, think people find that, andthis is why I get all these really great reviews,
is because it resonates with a lot of people.
Well, my book is for 8 to 12 year olds, but as youwere saying, Steve, in general, like, what makes
someone really the one that people want to bewith? Um, and others not so much. And how people
(21:26):
idolized this one person, Shelby, in her grade.
And how Jellybean figures out, through trial anderror, as most of us do, what she's willing to
sacrifice with to be in this popular group andwhat she's not. And she has her two loyal friends
(21:48):
who she likes well enough. Is it worth it to heror is it just a bother to her to try to be with
these other girls?
And, um, at that age, for most kids, it's not easyto figure all that out because you want to be with
the popular group, but sometimes you don't likethe popular group, so that's a challenge.
(22:08):
Or you're not willing to be a certain way to beliked by them and to try that out or not. That's
to be or not to be. That's the question.
So what do you think Jelly Bean's m main focus isthen? What does she really want?
So she's figuring that out as we go along. Andwhen I was talking to my PR person because someone
(22:31):
had asked me, well, what's the theme? And since Itaught for so many years, this, uh, did come up
along the way. And it's a question of learning tothink for yourself, learning to try to figure out
things without making too many mistakes along theway, which is tough because you don't want your
(22:52):
child yourself, let's say, to make a, uh, reallybad mistake with bad repercussions. And, you know,
it's tempting to be rebellious, let's say, or notgo along with the crowd. Everything does have
repercussions. Like she, Jelly Bean also triescertain activities like that her mother would want
(23:14):
her to, but she doesn't really want to stick withthem. And I, uh, don't know, I sort of thought
along the way, I kind of really. I want to saythat I made my kids do certain things, but I
wanted them to continue. I know you really makesyou think. And a lot of parents and grandparents
have said that this resonates with them. Like, ifI had to do it over again, would I?
(23:37):
Well, we know just experientially in life thatsome parents are. Don't parent well. And some
parents parent extremely well. And so kidssometimes. See, there are kids that grow up in
poor parenting households that thrive. And thereare kids that grow up in excellent parenting
houses that do not. So there's no accounting forit really, is there?
(23:59):
No, it's fascinating. It's nature and nurture allthe way with every one of us. I mean, I know when
I taught writing in college and we Went around theroom and they each had to talk about a conflict
that they weregoing to be writing about. I was in tears at the
end.
There were 19 kids in each class and boy, oh boy,some of their family situations were just awful.
(24:21):
And I had some, a few, couple of students in highschool where they were called, um, there was a
name for this. Oh gosh. Where both parents signoff on them and they just end up having to raise
themselves. And I had never heard of such. It's anemancipated minor.
St (24:39):
Oh, emancipated minor, sure.
Okay, so what do you do if neither parent wantsto. Parent wants. Decides. Uh, uh, in one student
I had, which I felt so terrible because he endedup, I don't know what became of him but dropping
out of school. The dad had gone off and hadanother family and went to be with them. The mom
(25:01):
went back to her original country. I think she mayhave been sick. And they had said to me, well, if
anyone could handle him, you can. I'm like, ohgreat. And I did have a class of non, um, college
bound kids and I just had them settled down to agood place, more or less. And he had entered my
class, this boy who you can only imagine when hegot home with no one to really care about him or
(25:26):
to care for him. And he would throw things andyell and he really couldn't read or write. And I'm
talking about 11th grade. So this was a bigproblem and it disrupted everything. And I tried
everything I could. Candy. I would show snippetsof movies. I would, you know, have them write
about things of interest to them related to thebooks that we were reading. We talked about job
(25:49):
hunting, etc. Etc. But he just, you know, uh,another child with these, with certain issues like
this who had had parents who cared, would havebeen sent to a special school. But it takes care,
it takes money, it takes effort. So.
So you started writing these books when you were akid, basically when you were a young girl. And so,
(26:14):
uh, and suddenly you come out with books and theyreflect a certain, to a certain degree, things
that you then experienced as an adult. In otherwords, as a teacher. You discovered this and I
think that you injected a certain amount of thatthroughout the book, wouldn't you say? Or all
three books?
Yes, because I do presentations all over. Manyfourth, mainly third, fourth and fifth grades,
(26:35):
some sixth. And I'd say, does anyone here knowwhat procrastination is? Oh yes, my mom says I do
that and all this. And I said, well, I have hadevery excuse in the world not to finish these.
But, yes, I did start them in when I was in fourthgrade, and my teacher would pull me up to the
front of the room and when she had downtime andkids responded to them. And as I said, I could
(26:59):
give you a laundry list of things I'mnot very good at, but I was
always a pretty good storyteller.
So why did you head toward a young girl? Was itbecause you were a young girl when you first
started writing them? And why do you continue tobe attracted to her? What does Jelly Bean say to
you? Why is Jelly Bean your protagonist when
(27:20):
you're that age, 9 or 10? Let's say things to me,it would seem, and from having taught all ages and
from my own experience raising children, raisingmy three kids, and now I have seven grandchildren,
is that. That's when things kind of come intofocus in your world?
I find that before that age, for the most part,give or take, kids kind of, you sort of accept
(27:45):
what your plight in life is.
You know, you, uh.
Okay, you know, you have to do this, you have todo that. You see things happening.
Okay.
You know, that's how life is. But then I find atthat age, you kind of begin more looking into
things and questioning things that are in yourenvironment that happen to you and happen around
you. And this is, I guess, what caught my interestfor the most part and seemed to work for me.
(28:10):
Uh, that age. She's, again, she's 10, 11, startsoff
at nine, and now she's 10 in my book three.
And that's a very heavy developmental age, isn'tit?
Amy Pollack (28:21):
Very much so, yeah.
You're learning about your world.
You're making more decisions, making morejudgments on your own with the help of, let's say,
your parents or your caretakers or yourgrandparents.
Well, you're a preteen, but you're no longer ababy. You're no longer a little kid. You're sort
of understanding the world really, uh, in a deepway for the first time, and things are coming to
(28:46):
you that way. So how much of your own familyexperiences do you think are reflected in this
book and in your other books?
A lot, because that's how I grew up.
And that's. I, uh, was so lucky.
I mean, you don't really.
To me, speaking for myself, you don't necessarily.
(29:08):
You sort of take it for granted at the time,because this is my life. These are my grandparents
who I miss. These are my parents who I miss. And Iwas very blessed. I was very lucky. And you only
realize that as you get a little bit olderstarting, let's say, at those ages and you go to
other people's houses and you meet other peoplewho don't have that experience for one reason or
(29:31):
the next. I remember being really taken bysurprise for one example. I don't know if I spoke
of this one example. I could point to many things.
Uh.
I don't know. My parents were always busy andrushing around doing things like the parents in
the book. And I can't say they. I mean, theyalways made time for me. But I can't say they were
lounging around doing nothing waiting for me tocome by and. Oh, what would you like to do? Not at
(29:55):
all. Like, we had responsibilities.
I don't think any kid has that unless it's ahelicopter parent. I think if it's a helicopter
parent, they're. They're scheduling them. They'retaking them everywhere. Here and there. I know
when I was, of course, the generation I grew upin, uh, nobody paid any attention to any of us.
Amy P (30:14):
Yeah. It's all according.
And that's not so terrible. I mean, right? No onewants.
No, it's a way to grow up. You grow up fast thatway. You learn things. You learn how to be in the
street, so to speak. Common sense. You learncommon sense.
Amy Pollack (30:26):
Right.
True, true, true. We love playing out in thestreet. And we had a fair amount of freedom. We
were allowed to walk, road, our bikes everywhere.
And, uh.
Well, we had rules. My parents were pretty strictabout certain things. Like, for example, I went
over this one friend of mine's house and Iremember I was in seventh grade at this point and
I was shocked when her mother came in the roomtold her something or other she had to do and she
(30:50):
said, just shut up. I know. And her mother didnothing. And if that had been me, uh, I would have
been lucky to have lived to tell the tale. No,Kibby, we were not allowed to be rude to our
parents. That is for sure. And that was a, uh. No.
No.
Or any adult. You were not allowed to be rude toyour friends, your family or your neighbors, your
(31:14):
teachers or anyone.
Oh, my God.
I remember when my daughter told me she was in acertain class in her college and the prior class
was leaving and the teacher was erasing the boardfor the next teacher to come in. And she was,
like, shocked because some of the kids weresaying, you're a bad teacher. I didn't get all
(31:34):
that down, like, put. And she said, like. Theteacher said nothing. And, uh, there's A lot that
goes on that's kind of shocking.
So Jelly Bean is thrown for a major loop when uh,her grandmother basically departs, uh, and also
when Brittany leaves. So there's. We alreadytalked about that a little bit. So she's thrown
(31:57):
for this loop and it alters her life in a dramaticway. How do you think young people should deal
with drama like that? What's the way that theyshould think?
That is a really tough one because, well, spoileralert. There is a death in the book and her mother
wants her to go over with her and she's like, m.
(32:19):
Who's looking forward to that? Like being with theuh, child that she's not that crazy about. And if
you read on, you can see the reasons and so forth.
And the mom is dying in the room across the hall.
And on the way back, her mom said, you know,thanks for coming with me. And she says, well, you
made me. And her mother said, well, if you hadseriously objected to it, I wouldn't have made
(32:43):
you. And that's like a whole question I knowabout. Like my kids were young when my father died
and some people said you should take them to thefuneral, some people said you shouldn't. But it's
a way to say goodbye. And you know, so does dependon the family and it depends on the kids and what
(33:03):
they're like and, and
culture might be culturally right or wrongdepending upon your. What?
Oh, definitely no that enters in for sure.
I, I personally think that if a child isnotoriously a well behaved child, not a got ants
in their pants or whatever, that they should go tothose things. They should. It's a learning
experience.
I happen to agree. I do. Now of course, when myyoungest was three, uh, it wouldn't have been
(33:31):
meaningful to her at that age. But my older ones,I did.
Now what do you think about you've got thismarvelous new relationship with Aunt Carolee? Uh,
and so what do you think of how a child shouldreact to a new personal adult coming into his or
her life?
Oh, that's so interesting because she wants tofind out. When you read my book, you'll see she's
(33:55):
so curious why this wonderful, beautiful, sweetperson got divorced. And that's a really logical
question that kids would wonder about. And so Ihave her have it explained to her and in I think
appropriate language for what she couldcomprehend, which I think is important because
(34:20):
like when I was growing up, well, I'm 73 now, soyou can do the math. Things just were not talked
about. Certain things just were not mentioned.
Like, my aunt was dying of cancer, which myparents did much later on. Fair number of years
later than that.
It was just not talked about at the time.
(34:41):
And I went with my mom to see her in the hospital.
Oh, they think there's something wrong with herbones. I remember her saying that. And I was like,
oh, what? You know, which is sort of bad becauseit makes the kid think, oh, what if there's
something wrong with my bones?
So it is.
It's kind of tough how you, um, became much moreopen with my own kids as a result. Not about every
(35:02):
single thing, but many.
No, but, but, but it's kind of honesty is the bestpolicy. That old cliche, right?
I think so. I do. I really do. In terms thatthey're able to understand with not too much
difficulty.
When you first sat down to think about writingyour books, did you go through a process of
outlining so you knew where you were going andwhat you were doing?
(35:25):
Yes, so I always start with an outline, but I'mnot very good about, you know, carrying, um,
through with it because I'm always making changes.
And what develops is not necessarily theidea I started out with, because something
comes along that's more interesting or morecompelling to me, and that's what I end up going
(35:49):
with.
You made a good choice by sticking with yourprotagonist throughout. We really focus on
Jellybean. It doesn't sort, uh, of veer off intoother people and categories unless Jellybean is
around. It's her story.
Right, right. True, true, true.
I think she is always, always gonna be the focus.
It just works.
(36:09):
Could you tell as you were writing that the storywas working? Can you feel it as you're working, or
do you need someone else to tell you that it'sworking?
So interesting. And I've read about so manywriters that have this, like, crisis of confidence
as I'm writing. And then I read it. Well, youwrite also. And sometimes, uh, I'll read it back
(36:31):
afterwards and think, I don't know, like, Ithought this was good, but now it seems terrible.
I'm just not sure. And then I'll start, like,reading it to my husband, and I'll look over and
he's asleep, you know, and that's not.
Steve C (36:44):
That's not a good sign.
Not a great sign. But. But otherwise I'll. I'lltry it out on my kids or now my grandchildren, and
they'll give me some ideas that are, ah, kindof helpful when I need.
Not sure of what direction to go in. But I usuallyHave a pretty, a decent idea if it's working,
(37:11):
something is working or not. And then of course,when I got my reviews that, you know, luckily that
has been very good, um, reinforcement.
Can you offer advice to anyone about whether ornot getting to a publisher is something that you
should do and if so, how do you go about it?
Uh, oh, this is a really tough one. I've helped alot of people with this, but it's not easy. I
(37:35):
mean, I've had. My dealings with my publishershaven't been 100% wonderful. But I would say if
you, because someone helped me with how to get toa publisher that's going to be a good fit for you,
for you. You have to, um, for one, you know, notjust you personally, but you have to look in
(37:59):
writer's market and find, um, publishers thattake. If you're a brand new writer, that are open
to new writers and you have to, you know, not getdiscouraged. I guess I had about 25 rejections or
so. And then luckily this Austin McCauley took me,uh, for my first two books. And then I had some
(38:25):
issues, some ups and downs, which as I've talkedto more and more people, is pretty commonplace. So
then I sent my book three around and I got toPegasus and I'll see what happens with my book 4.
Did you have an agent do this or did you do ityourself?
Did it myself. Because I think I would like to tryan agent. But I've heard such mixed stories about
(38:50):
that. I've heard that, you know, that some, uh,will just take your money and not do anything for
you. Some are wonderful if they believe in yourbook and are the type that, you know you should
get a recommendation for that.
Well, uh, in theory, an agent shouldn't take anymoney from you unless you earn money. In other
words, they take a percent of what you earn.
(39:11):
Yes, that would be the ideal wayto shoot for the more you read up on it and talk
to various people. I think that.
And people that, whose judgment you trust
and, and you have stick to it. Iveness. You havepatience and you keep going.
You have to be resilient. You really do.
All right, so tell me about teaching. What madeteaching for you fulfilling?
(39:33):
So I really did love teaching for the most part.
You learn a lot from your students and you learn alot about yourself. And I especially love teaching
English. Well, I love teaching science also,because you could kind of explore your work. I
don't love having to correct all the papers everynight.
(39:54):
Did you feel like you learned as much from yourstudents as they learned from you.
Totally. I just felt like it just opens up newworlds. Every kid's experience and every kid's
life is good, better, and different. Like, uh,just such an eye opener, you know, things that you
just never would expect that kids go through andhave to confront. And you try to help them the
(40:21):
best you can and have them say, you know, you weremy favorite teacher and I'll always remember you
and that kind of thing. And I would also make themdo
evaluations, which you have to be pretty braveabout. And I really learned a lot from.
I loved all the compliments, but from thecriticisms, I learned a hell of a lot.
So. All right, well, we're going to wind the showdown just a little bit now. Amy and M, in all of
(40:46):
your experiences, whether as a teacher or as awriter, can you share with us a story that's
either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or maybejust plain funny?
I was working in advertisement for advertising fora while, which, I mean, this is why I tell people,
don't get discouraged. I couldn't find a teachingjob for a while. And, um, this was back in the
(41:09):
70s, okay, so I worked in advertising.
Advertising, which was also fun and interestingand a lot of hard work. And I just did everything
for my boss because I was office, uh, manager,production manager, and so forth.
And he once said, okay, bring this in. Adcampaign. This was in New York City up to Neil
(41:31):
Simon, because this campaign featured differentcelebs. And it was like, so and so likes New York
magazine, because blah, blah, blah. So I was justabout to say, oh, this isn't my job, you know? Um,
what? I know I was in my mid-20s. And so as I waswalking up the street, I remember it was a
(41:52):
beautiful day in May. I'm like, what am I, crazy?
Of course I want to meet Neil Simon's agent. Youknow, I had wanted to be a writer at the time, you
know, So I go to this beautiful plush office, andI said, oh, can I talk to Mr. Simon? Because he
had said, oh, let's call him right now. I'm like,okay, cool. And I said on the phone, because I'm
(42:15):
always telling my kids and my students, you haveto be bold. I said, would you take a look at some
of my writing? And I hang up. And, uh, he sort ofunenthusiastically said, okay. Um, the agent said,
why didn't you ask me? And I said, well, you'reinterested in looking at my writing. And he said,
we're always looking for new writers. I'm like,okay, you know, not really believing him.
(42:37):
But I brought him and we ended up talking forhours.
Actually, I did bring him some of my writing andhe wrote me back and said, you dialogue crackles,
which I always remembered, but. And this is sofunny to think back on, you need more experience.
You need to have more experiences. Uh, I thinkabout that now. And he was right, because what did
(43:00):
I know at that time? So that kind of resonated andwe were in touch for.
He sort of mentored me for quitea while, which was really nice. And so just, I
don't know, it's a good thing to tell people whenyou're just about to say, hey, that's not really
supposed to be part of my job. I mean, I didn'tlike it at
the end of the day when myboss would say to me, here, go, go get my car for
(43:23):
me at 9 o' clock at night in a parking garage inNew York. And I tossed him back as keys and said,
no, I'm not doing that.
But that's a little of a different bag of worms.
But this, you know, turned out well and helpful.
Amy, this has been a fantastic chat with you todayon Story Beat, and I can't thank you enough for
your time, your energy and your wisdom. And I hopeeveryone that has any interest in reading your,
(43:48):
uh, books, they'll go out and check them out onAmazon and elsewhere. Especially Jelly Bean. Look
at the Jellybean books by Amy Pollock. Amy, thankyou so much for being on the show today.
Thank you so much, Steve. Take care. It was fun.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment right rating orreview on whatever app or platform you're
(44:11):
listening to. Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is
available on all major podcast apps and platforms,including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify,
iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until nexttime, I'm Steve Cuden and may all your stories be
(44:32):
unforgettable.
On today's Story Beat.
(00:02):
I did bring him some of my writing and he wrote meback and said, you dialogue crackles, which I
always remembered. But, and this is so funny tothink back on, you need more experience. You need
to have more experiences. Uh, I think about thatnow. And he was right. Because what did I know at
that time?
(00:23):
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden a podcast forthe creative mind. Story Beat explores how masters
of creation creativity develop and producebrilliant works that people everywhere love and
admire. So join us as we discover how talentedcreators find success in the worlds of imagination
(00:45):
and entertainment. Here now is your host, SteveCuden.
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My guest today, Amy Maislen Pollock,was a teacher for over four decades. From her own
(01:06):
childhood to the classroom to being a parent ofthree and grandparent to seven, she's perfectly
positioned to write her coming of age book seriesbased on a mischievous young girl, Gillian Kramer,
who everyone calls jellybean. After 60 years ofoccasionally working on her Jellybean books, Amy
took advantage of the COVID pandemic to to worktoward finishing them. The series began with the
(01:29):
Adventures of Jellybean, which first came to Amywhen her fourth grade teacher asked her to get up
in front of the class and tell stories aboutJellybean, which she would make up as she went
along. Several years later, she began writing downthe Jellybean stories and would work on them
periodically in any free time she had during herteaching career and while raising her three
(01:49):
children. The second in the series, the FurtherAdventures of Jellybean, was followed up by the
Still Further Adventures of Jellybean, which,which I've read. It's a charming take on the
emotional challenges confronting Jellybean as shetries to navigate through the relentless turmoil
of growing up. She tries to work out relationshipswith her friends, her parents, her older brothers,
(02:11):
and her uncle, among others. Jellybean's parentsdon't want her best friend, who is of mixed race,
to visit. Another friend is anorexic. One brotherdrops out of school, a grandparent diesel. In
other words, it's about the struggles many younggirls face as they grow up. Amy earned advanced
degrees from the University of PennsylvaniaGraduate School of Education. For six years, she
(02:33):
was a professor of writing and a teacher in thetutoring center at Montclair State University. So
for all those reasons and many more, I'm trulydelighted to have the longtime educator and
excellent writer Amy Pollack join me on Story Beattoday. Amy, welcome to the show.
Oh, uh, thank you, Steve. Glad to be here.
It's a great pleasure to have you. So I know youwere quite young, obviously, when you started
(02:55):
making up jelly bean stories.
Amy Pollack (02:57):
Yes.
But exactly how old were you when you first becameinterested in words and writing?
Oh, uh, as early as I can remember. I know. My dadused to take me to the library every weekend in
the mornings and we'd pick out books, come backand read them. He just read me everything from the
Bible and Greek mythology and onto all of Dickens.
(03:21):
Well, I started reading them myself after a while,but between the ages of 9 and 16. So I always
loved reading and I loved writing.
What were the books that you most enjoyed when youwere that young?
Oh, gosh. Well, I do remember them pretty clearly.
ABC books. I loved biographies. I would read shelffulls. And, um, when I was young and would read to
(03:44):
myself, I loved Nancy Drewes. I liked all theclassics. Oh, gosh.
So you were reading everything then?
I was, I was pretty eclectic, yes. In my tastes.
Was your head full of made up characters at thesame time?
Pretty much, yes. Yes, I did have a pretty vividimagination and that did kind of continue. And
(04:06):
certain. I can remember very selectively. Socertain things would stick out in my mind, others
not so. So much so later on when I was assigned tobe teaching math and science. And I did it because
that's where the jobs took me. But it was more ofa struggle for me than the English and languages.
And then onto writing, which was teaching writing,which was my favorite.
(04:30):
You've always enjoyed, uh, teaching. Obviouslyyou've taught for a very long time and you were
always, even as a kid then, a storyteller. Youwere telling stories not only in school, I assume,
but. But to your friends and family as well.
Yes, yes, they did, uh, really always enjoy. Imean, there's plenty of things I can't do very
well, but that's one thing that I could. And theywere always entertained and entertaining and we'd
(04:55):
also get into various types of mischief, which iskind of fun to remember.
Well, do you think that your writing has been anextension of your teaching? Do you think you're
teaching still?
Hmm. M. Probably. Yes. Yes. I never quite thoughtof it that way, but yes, that does actually sound
pretty, pretty accurate. That's interesting.
(05:17):
Yes, that's, uh. As a writer myself, I. Long timeago, well, not so long ago, but, uh, a while ago,
I thought to myself, the writing that I do is alsoa form of teaching because I too taught for 10
years here in Pittsburgh But I think that that'san important thing for writers to consider
sometimes is, are you teaching something? Youdon't have to, but that's a way to think about it.
(05:38):
Um, what. What do you think that teaching hastaught you about being a writer?
Oh, gosh. Well, first of all, you run into so manydifferent kinds of boys and girls, like, just the
gamut. I've taught in many different kinds ofschools of different economic background,
different racial and ethnic backgrounds. And it'sall, you know, like the poem goes, the child's the
(06:03):
father of the man. And, uh, from my own childrenand from their friends and from the students,
you're just always, always, always learning.
Well, I think that's true for sure. How did youmanage with as busy a schedule as you had teaching
and raising kids, how did you ever find time towrite at all?
Well, that was a little bit of a problem. And as Isaid, you brought it up that, um, Covid actually
(06:29):
made m forced me during the pandemic to sit downand actually complete these books. I'd written
other things, but these were always there kind ofon the back burner, which, you know, every so
often I think, gee, I really should get back tothat. And I give presentations in a lot of the
(06:50):
schools, mostly to third, fourth, fifth and sixthgraders. That's who I mainly write for middle
grade boys and girls. And I'd always say, okay,who here knows what procrastination is? Well,
every. Practically every hand goes, oh, my mothersays I do that. And I'll say I was very guilty of
(07:11):
that. I have a million excuses as to why I neverfinished these. It took me 60 some odd years to
finish these, which is crazy. You know, who goesaround thinking they have that much time? I mean,
speaking for myself, I guess I don't reallyrecommend procrastinating, but it was hard with
all everything else I was doing.
(07:32):
So you're saying that you had more m or lessdeveloped all three of these books as you were
going along in life, and then along comes thepandemic and that sort of got you to sit down and
finish all three, Is that what you're saying?
Well, uh, somewhat. What happened was I finishedthe first book during the pandemic and sent it
(07:54):
around because, as you said, do you have anystories vis a vis this? And I had a cousin who I
happened to be sitting next to at a family event,and she helped me with telling me exactly who I
should send my story around to that you need a.
And I'm. I've paid this Forward many times topeople that ask me, you need a one pager about
(08:19):
yourself and your book. And I'd say, oh, I haveone, but it's about three pages. And she'd say,
no, you can't do that. Someone in a big pile ofstuff, they're reading. They're not going to sit
and read if you're a new writer. So I learned alot from her. From that.
Did you receive formal training as a writer? Not awriting teacher, which obviously you have, but did
(08:42):
you go to school and learn how to write in schoolas well?
So that's interesting because I did take coursesnot at nyu, but at the New School. And that helped
me. Those courses were very good. I used to go inlike one day a week and there were some very good
teachers there. And I hadn't thought about that inquite a while. It helped me be able to put my
(09:06):
words in a better format, like be more organizedabout my writing, I guess.
And then the, the. I guess you didn't really need,uh, to learn a whole lot about the art, uh, of
storytelling because you'd been doing it forever.
Oh, and I'd been reading so much. And you learnedjust so much from your reading.
(09:26):
It's not possible to become a successful writerwithout doing a lot of reading, I think.
No, right. I mean, when I would teach, and I loveteaching English at the high school where I
taught, that was great, you know, aside fromhaving a discipline. And uh, any teacher will tell
you that about. That's why college is. Most of thekids kind of want to be there for the most part.
(09:48):
Except for the ones that were sleeping. Butthat's, uh. I digress.
I had a few of those too. So I understand.
It happens. Um, but in the high school they had.
It was a very good curriculum. Even I had kidsthat were not college bound and let's say slower
learners, um, want to try to use the rightterminology to the ones that were various. A whole
(10:12):
variety of levels. And I just learned so much, notonly from them, but from what I was teaching. Like
the short story unit was so good. Like, I don'tknow if these things stick in my mind. And it's
one of my son's favorite, um, favorite stories.
The Most Dangerous Game.
Steve Cuden (10:30):
Yes.
So that for one example is just so well crafted.
And it's just one of those stories where you canpeel back the onion and find out the real kernel
of truth in the middle and what it's about andwhat it signifies. That's just one example. And
there's the, uh, we did the Open Window in thisshort story unit. Have you ever read that one?
(10:50):
I've never read that one. I'm trying to. TheDangerous Game. I know I've read it. I can't
remember who wrote it. Who wrote that?
Oh, gosh. Um, now you're asking me difficultquestions. I'll probably think of it after I hang
up.
I might think of it too. Yeah, for sure. Uh, but Ido remember reading Dangerous Game when I was a
young man.
That's from like 1920. A man who, you know, goesafter as prey, other humans.
(11:14):
So when, at what point, uh, you'd gone all theseyears, you finally finished at least the first
book. Uh, when did you think to yourself, you knowwhat, this is actually good enough to be
published. What was the epiphany that said, yeah,I'm gonna put this out in the world?
Oh, that's an interesting question. I mean, I washoping it was good. Guess I have the confidence in
(11:38):
that aspect of my life. Uh, I guess after youreach a certain point and helping with your
students and telling them, you can do this, Ican't tell you how, but you'll get there. When
they would say things like, you know, whoa, uh,what if, what if, what if? I don't. And my own
children to have to encourage. And now with mygrandchildren and I guess it. And my parents, I
(12:02):
have to say, were always very encouraging to me. Iwas very, very lucky in that you just kind of take
it for granted. Things about your parents speakingfor myself growing up. And then you see what other
people go through. Like one time in my, um,teaching freshman writing class I taught at
Montclair State, I went around the room and wewere each the assignment they had to write about a
(12:27):
conflict. By the end of that, they each had to saywhat their conflict was they were going to write
about. I was in tears. They had the saddeststories for real family stuff. And so I'm like,
God, I was lucky with that.
Well, uh, obviously, if you've got. There'snothing more satisfying to me as a teacher than
(12:50):
having students that are giving you back somethingthat's wonderful.
A (12:53):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Mm mhm.
I mean, that's a really critical thing in aclassroom, I think. But so at some point you.
Amy Pollack (13:01):
What'd you do?
Did you send it around to publishers?
Oh, well, again, this cousin of mine, Ariel,helped me with, I've given her credit in my
forwards, um, who, uh, who I should try to send mystories to. And she said it has to be people that
are taking you know a brand new writer. You canlook in writer's market and it'll give you all
(13:22):
this information and someone you should funnybecause we were talking about your past shows. Um,
you know you should look at some of the thingsthey have published and try to find someone who
would seem to be simpatico with you what you'rewriting about and try those like don't go for
someone who likes science fiction because I don'twrite that. Yeah. That kind of thing. Try to find
(13:49):
publishers who um. Seem like they would like yourhopefully like what you're writing.
So what category do you think your book fallsinto? Is it ya?
Oh no, because that's. That's teenagers. I writefor preteens. And everyone asks what's gonna
happen when she gets older. Because I am gonnacontinue my series. Cause many people. Yes. And
(14:13):
she is going to get older for now for these threebooks. And I'm in the middle of my book four where
she's only in fifth grade so far my maincharacter. So I have no cursing and I have no uh.
M. Nothing sexual because it's for um. Ages prettymuch 7. If it's a advanced type of reader ages 7
(14:36):
or let's say 8 to 12 past that they probably wouldfind it too babyish. I think for the most part.
Although it depends on the reader.
I've got to assume there's a fairly healthy marketfor that kind of uh. Story.
Yeah, does appear to be. I know my. My books seemto be pretty popular and I think they're also what
(14:57):
goes on in my books. As you were describing Steveis very, very relatable to many kids. Like
conflicts with her parents. Her parents don't likea best friend. That happens pretty much 98% of the
time. The more because a lot of the kids wouldconfide in me and I know from my own children and
(15:18):
their friends, you know that kind of thinghappens. They don't like a friend for X and such
reason.
So I, you know when I read the books or uh. Thebook I read the one book. Uh, I felt that it was
covering huge amounts of ground and in terms ofthe way that kids experience the world. I'm
assuming that was your intention.
(15:38):
Yes, very much so. My book is. It's prettyupfront, it's pretty honest about how she feels
and I like all the generations. Well especially Iguess being a grandmother that often like the
mother is so mad at which happens. I've been amom, you know for something she's doing something
(16:02):
jelly bean is doing that the mother. Motherdoesn't really approve of. The dad usually goes
along with her, which, you know, happened in myfamily a fair amount. As far as a whole gamut of
things that go on in my books. Yeah, it's like agrandparent dying many times. It's things I
experience myself.
Well, that's. Well, let's get into that a littlebit. Let's talk about the book itself. Let's go
(16:24):
way back in time. Where was the inspiration for.
Back when you were in the fourth grade for JellyBean? Where did that come from?
So, uh, you know, I try to think about thatbecause people ask me and I think it just kind of
sprung out of my head and as you were asking mewhat books I liked. And I think, what can I say?
Mine was based on just a lot of my. A lot of myreading. Gosh. I mean, I loved Robert Louis
(16:50):
Stevenson with all these wonderful characters.
Dickens had a, uh, gazillion various types ofcharacters, and I guess they kind of stuck in my
mind and resonated with me. And also people I knewand things that. I guess I was just pretty
creative. And I could think of these things. As Isaid, by contrast, when I was assigned to teaching
(17:17):
math and sciences, that did not come to menaturally, whereas this did. So I guess it's a
right brain, left brain.
When you're a young person and something comesnaturally and makes your life easy in some way,
you glom onto that, you head toward that.
Yes. And so did my teacher. And I remember her sovividly. My fourth grade teacher and some
(17:41):
classmates of mine from then. And I'm talkingabout Steve, like 63 years ago, I met while we
went to another classmate's funeral and someonebrought with them something I had written and I
had turned my stories into a play and giveneverybody parts. I didn't even remember that. And
I was like, betsy. You know, these are popularnames at the time, which I had to change along the
(18:03):
way actually, to make them more okurant. So Isaid, you know, most people my age have moved at
least once or twice on average. Still have this,uh. I couldn't even believe it. I'm like, wowee.
So tell the listeners a little bit about what thewhole book is about, what the Still Adventures of
Jellybean is about.
She's in fifth grade now and she has to deal withsome challenges and some changes, as we all do.
(18:32):
But for a 10, uh, year old, it can be a littlerough. Her grandmother, who has been living in her
room, moves away and she Moves to Florida, shegets remarried. And at first, Jelly Beans, like,
you know, she says what she feels. Why aren't youhappy with us? You know, we. Everyone loves you
(18:55):
here. And she's in Jelly Bean's room and she'sbeing a grandmother myself. You know, you have a
little more time than you usually than your momhas. Um, when I was a mother, I was certainly
busier, um, with more pressing matters. But thegrandma who lives in her room, which Jelly Bean at
first thought, hmm, Hm, I don't know how that'sgonna go. But she loved having more attention.
(19:19):
And, uh, her grandmother is a very good listener,as my mom was. And so she's gonna lose that.
Well, you know, we'll communicate and you'll comedown and she's like, well, you
know, that's not gonna be the same. Which, ofcourse it's not. And her best friend moves away.
Also her best friend, who the mother hasn't beenthat keen about. Um, and Jelly Bean has confronted
(19:44):
her in my first Adventures of Jellybean book andsaid, you just don't like her because she's poor.
Which would get said in a lot of households. Butof course, the mother's. No, no, no, that's not
it. But she's someone, um. Brittany, who's veryspunky and Jellybean has just adored her and loved
(20:06):
being with her. And this happens to a lot of kids.
I know. It happened to me when my closest friendmoved away in grade school.
It's very hard.
The kid, the little girl who you prefer more thananyone to be with. Um, but she's moving with her
family. It's a little tricky as a kid when you'refiguring out what makes her special, what makes
(20:32):
people respond to her. Whereas if someone elsesaid the same kind of thing, it wouldn't work out.
But isn't that the way it is with all humans? Iswe have chemistry with certain people and certain
people we don't have chemistry with. And there'ssomething that we like about this person, but we.
Even though everybody thinks they're the mostpopular person, you may like them or not like
them. Right?
Yeah, exactly. And Jelly Bean does continue tohave her ups and downs with popularity, but which
(20:58):
is another. I, uh, think people find that, andthis is why I get all these really great reviews,
is because it resonates with a lot of people.
Well, my book is for 8 to 12 year olds, but as youwere saying, Steve, in general, like, what makes
someone really the one that people want to bewith? Um, and others not so much. And how people
(21:26):
idolized this one person, Shelby, in her grade.
And how Jellybean figures out, through trial anderror, as most of us do, what she's willing to
sacrifice with to be in this popular group andwhat she's not. And she has her two loyal friends
(21:48):
who she likes well enough. Is it worth it to heror is it just a bother to her to try to be with
these other girls?
And, um, at that age, for most kids, it's not easyto figure all that out because you want to be with
the popular group, but sometimes you don't likethe popular group, so that's a challenge.
(22:08):
Or you're not willing to be a certain way to beliked by them and to try that out or not. That's
to be or not to be. That's the question.
So what do you think Jelly Bean's m main focus isthen? What does she really want?
So she's figuring that out as we go along. Andwhen I was talking to my PR person because someone
(22:31):
had asked me, well, what's the theme? And since Itaught for so many years, this, uh, did come up
along the way. And it's a question of learning tothink for yourself, learning to try to figure out
things without making too many mistakes along theway, which is tough because you don't want your
(22:52):
child yourself, let's say, to make a, uh, reallybad mistake with bad repercussions. And, you know,
it's tempting to be rebellious, let's say, or notgo along with the crowd. Everything does have
repercussions. Like she, Jelly Bean also triescertain activities like that her mother would want
(23:14):
her to, but she doesn't really want to stick withthem. And I, uh, don't know, I sort of thought
along the way, I kind of really. I want to saythat I made my kids do certain things, but I
wanted them to continue. I know you really makesyou think. And a lot of parents and grandparents
have said that this resonates with them. Like, ifI had to do it over again, would I?
(23:37):
Well, we know just experientially in life thatsome parents are. Don't parent well. And some
parents parent extremely well. And so kidssometimes. See, there are kids that grow up in
poor parenting households that thrive. And thereare kids that grow up in excellent parenting
houses that do not. So there's no accounting forit really, is there?
(23:59):
No, it's fascinating. It's nature and nurture allthe way with every one of us. I mean, I know when
I taught writing in college and we Went around theroom and they each had to talk about a conflict
that they weregoing to be writing about. I was in tears at the
end.
There were 19 kids in each class and boy, oh boy,some of their family situations were just awful.
(24:21):
And I had some, a few, couple of students in highschool where they were called, um, there was a
name for this. Oh gosh. Where both parents signoff on them and they just end up having to raise
themselves. And I had never heard of such. It's anemancipated minor.
St (24:39):
Oh, emancipated minor, sure.
Okay, so what do you do if neither parent wantsto. Parent wants. Decides. Uh, uh, in one student
I had, which I felt so terrible because he endedup, I don't know what became of him but dropping
out of school. The dad had gone off and hadanother family and went to be with them. The mom
(25:01):
went back to her original country. I think she mayhave been sick. And they had said to me, well, if
anyone could handle him, you can. I'm like, ohgreat. And I did have a class of non, um, college
bound kids and I just had them settled down to agood place, more or less. And he had entered my
class, this boy who you can only imagine when hegot home with no one to really care about him or
(25:26):
to care for him. And he would throw things andyell and he really couldn't read or write. And I'm
talking about 11th grade. So this was a bigproblem and it disrupted everything. And I tried
everything I could. Candy. I would show snippetsof movies. I would, you know, have them write
about things of interest to them related to thebooks that we were reading. We talked about job
(25:49):
hunting, etc. Etc. But he just, you know, uh,another child with these, with certain issues like
this who had had parents who cared, would havebeen sent to a special school. But it takes care,
it takes money, it takes effort. So.
So you started writing these books when you were akid, basically when you were a young girl. And so,
(26:14):
uh, and suddenly you come out with books and theyreflect a certain, to a certain degree, things
that you then experienced as an adult. In otherwords, as a teacher. You discovered this and I
think that you injected a certain amount of thatthroughout the book, wouldn't you say? Or all
three books?
Yes, because I do presentations all over. Manyfourth, mainly third, fourth and fifth grades,
(26:35):
some sixth. And I'd say, does anyone here knowwhat procrastination is? Oh yes, my mom says I do
that and all this. And I said, well, I have hadevery excuse in the world not to finish these.
But, yes, I did start them in when I was in fourthgrade, and my teacher would pull me up to the
front of the room and when she had downtime andkids responded to them. And as I said, I could
(26:59):
give you a laundry list of things I'mnot very good at, but I was
always a pretty good storyteller.
So why did you head toward a young girl? Was itbecause you were a young girl when you first
started writing them? And why do you continue tobe attracted to her? What does Jelly Bean say to
you? Why is Jelly Bean your protagonist when
(27:20):
you're that age, 9 or 10? Let's say things to me,it would seem, and from having taught all ages and
from my own experience raising children, raisingmy three kids, and now I have seven grandchildren,
is that. That's when things kind of come intofocus in your world?
I find that before that age, for the most part,give or take, kids kind of, you sort of accept
(27:45):
what your plight in life is.
You know, you, uh.
Okay, you know, you have to do this, you have todo that. You see things happening.
Okay.
You know, that's how life is. But then I find atthat age, you kind of begin more looking into
things and questioning things that are in yourenvironment that happen to you and happen around
you. And this is, I guess, what caught my interestfor the most part and seemed to work for me.
(28:10):
Uh, that age. She's, again, she's 10, 11, startsoff
at nine, and now she's 10 in my book three.
And that's a very heavy developmental age, isn'tit?
Amy Pollack (28:21):
Very much so, yeah.
You're learning about your world.
You're making more decisions, making morejudgments on your own with the help of, let's say,
your parents or your caretakers or yourgrandparents.
Well, you're a preteen, but you're no longer ababy. You're no longer a little kid. You're sort
of understanding the world really, uh, in a deepway for the first time, and things are coming to
(28:46):
you that way. So how much of your own familyexperiences do you think are reflected in this
book and in your other books?
A lot, because that's how I grew up.
And that's. I, uh, was so lucky.
I mean, you don't really.
To me, speaking for myself, you don't necessarily.
(29:08):
You sort of take it for granted at the time,because this is my life. These are my grandparents
who I miss. These are my parents who I miss. And Iwas very blessed. I was very lucky. And you only
realize that as you get a little bit olderstarting, let's say, at those ages and you go to
other people's houses and you meet other peoplewho don't have that experience for one reason or
(29:31):
the next. I remember being really taken bysurprise for one example. I don't know if I spoke
of this one example. I could point to many things.
Uh.
I don't know. My parents were always busy andrushing around doing things like the parents in
the book. And I can't say they. I mean, theyalways made time for me. But I can't say they were
lounging around doing nothing waiting for me tocome by and. Oh, what would you like to do? Not at
(29:55):
all. Like, we had responsibilities.
I don't think any kid has that unless it's ahelicopter parent. I think if it's a helicopter
parent, they're. They're scheduling them. They'retaking them everywhere. Here and there. I know
when I was, of course, the generation I grew upin, uh, nobody paid any attention to any of us.
Amy P (30:14):
Yeah. It's all according.
And that's not so terrible. I mean, right? No onewants.
No, it's a way to grow up. You grow up fast thatway. You learn things. You learn how to be in the
street, so to speak. Common sense. You learncommon sense.
Amy Pollack (30:26):
Right.
True, true, true. We love playing out in thestreet. And we had a fair amount of freedom. We
were allowed to walk, road, our bikes everywhere.
And, uh.
Well, we had rules. My parents were pretty strictabout certain things. Like, for example, I went
over this one friend of mine's house and Iremember I was in seventh grade at this point and
I was shocked when her mother came in the roomtold her something or other she had to do and she
(30:50):
said, just shut up. I know. And her mother didnothing. And if that had been me, uh, I would have
been lucky to have lived to tell the tale. No,Kibby, we were not allowed to be rude to our
parents. That is for sure. And that was a, uh. No.
No.
Or any adult. You were not allowed to be rude toyour friends, your family or your neighbors, your
(31:14):
teachers or anyone.
Oh, my God.
I remember when my daughter told me she was in acertain class in her college and the prior class
was leaving and the teacher was erasing the boardfor the next teacher to come in. And she was,
like, shocked because some of the kids weresaying, you're a bad teacher. I didn't get all
(31:34):
that down, like, put. And she said, like. Theteacher said nothing. And, uh, there's A lot that
goes on that's kind of shocking.
So Jelly Bean is thrown for a major loop when uh,her grandmother basically departs, uh, and also
when Brittany leaves. So there's. We alreadytalked about that a little bit. So she's thrown
(31:57):
for this loop and it alters her life in a dramaticway. How do you think young people should deal
with drama like that? What's the way that theyshould think?
That is a really tough one because, well, spoileralert. There is a death in the book and her mother
wants her to go over with her and she's like, m.
(32:19):
Who's looking forward to that? Like being with theuh, child that she's not that crazy about. And if
you read on, you can see the reasons and so forth.
And the mom is dying in the room across the hall.
And on the way back, her mom said, you know,thanks for coming with me. And she says, well, you
made me. And her mother said, well, if you hadseriously objected to it, I wouldn't have made
(32:43):
you. And that's like a whole question I knowabout. Like my kids were young when my father died
and some people said you should take them to thefuneral, some people said you shouldn't. But it's
a way to say goodbye. And you know, so does dependon the family and it depends on the kids and what
(33:03):
they're like and, and
culture might be culturally right or wrongdepending upon your. What?
Oh, definitely no that enters in for sure.
I, I personally think that if a child isnotoriously a well behaved child, not a got ants
in their pants or whatever, that they should go tothose things. They should. It's a learning
experience.
I happen to agree. I do. Now of course, when myyoungest was three, uh, it wouldn't have been
(33:31):
meaningful to her at that age. But my older ones,I did.
Now what do you think about you've got thismarvelous new relationship with Aunt Carolee? Uh,
and so what do you think of how a child shouldreact to a new personal adult coming into his or
her life?
Oh, that's so interesting because she wants tofind out. When you read my book, you'll see she's
(33:55):
so curious why this wonderful, beautiful, sweetperson got divorced. And that's a really logical
question that kids would wonder about. And so Ihave her have it explained to her and in I think
appropriate language for what she couldcomprehend, which I think is important because
(34:20):
like when I was growing up, well, I'm 73 now, soyou can do the math. Things just were not talked
about. Certain things just were not mentioned.
Like, my aunt was dying of cancer, which myparents did much later on. Fair number of years
later than that.
It was just not talked about at the time.
(34:41):
And I went with my mom to see her in the hospital.
Oh, they think there's something wrong with herbones. I remember her saying that. And I was like,
oh, what? You know, which is sort of bad becauseit makes the kid think, oh, what if there's
something wrong with my bones?
So it is.
It's kind of tough how you, um, became much moreopen with my own kids as a result. Not about every
(35:02):
single thing, but many.
No, but, but, but it's kind of honesty is the bestpolicy. That old cliche, right?
I think so. I do. I really do. In terms thatthey're able to understand with not too much
difficulty.
When you first sat down to think about writingyour books, did you go through a process of
outlining so you knew where you were going andwhat you were doing?
(35:25):
Yes, so I always start with an outline, but I'mnot very good about, you know, carrying, um,
through with it because I'm always making changes.
And what develops is not necessarily theidea I started out with, because something
comes along that's more interesting or morecompelling to me, and that's what I end up going
(35:49):
with.
You made a good choice by sticking with yourprotagonist throughout. We really focus on
Jellybean. It doesn't sort, uh, of veer off intoother people and categories unless Jellybean is
around. It's her story.
Right, right. True, true, true.
I think she is always, always gonna be the focus.
It just works.
(36:09):
Could you tell as you were writing that the storywas working? Can you feel it as you're working, or
do you need someone else to tell you that it'sworking?
So interesting. And I've read about so manywriters that have this, like, crisis of confidence
as I'm writing. And then I read it. Well, youwrite also. And sometimes, uh, I'll read it back
(36:31):
afterwards and think, I don't know, like, Ithought this was good, but now it seems terrible.
I'm just not sure. And then I'll start, like,reading it to my husband, and I'll look over and
he's asleep, you know, and that's not.
Steve C (36:44):
That's not a good sign.
Not a great sign. But. But otherwise I'll. I'lltry it out on my kids or now my grandchildren, and
they'll give me some ideas that are, ah, kindof helpful when I need.
Not sure of what direction to go in. But I usuallyHave a pretty, a decent idea if it's working,
(37:11):
something is working or not. And then of course,when I got my reviews that, you know, luckily that
has been very good, um, reinforcement.
Can you offer advice to anyone about whether ornot getting to a publisher is something that you
should do and if so, how do you go about it?
Uh, oh, this is a really tough one. I've helped alot of people with this, but it's not easy. I
(37:35):
mean, I've had. My dealings with my publishershaven't been 100% wonderful. But I would say if
you, because someone helped me with how to get toa publisher that's going to be a good fit for you,
for you. You have to, um, for one, you know, notjust you personally, but you have to look in
(37:59):
writer's market and find, um, publishers thattake. If you're a brand new writer, that are open
to new writers and you have to, you know, not getdiscouraged. I guess I had about 25 rejections or
so. And then luckily this Austin McCauley took me,uh, for my first two books. And then I had some
(38:25):
issues, some ups and downs, which as I've talkedto more and more people, is pretty commonplace. So
then I sent my book three around and I got toPegasus and I'll see what happens with my book 4.
Did you have an agent do this or did you do ityourself?
Did it myself. Because I think I would like to tryan agent. But I've heard such mixed stories about
(38:50):
that. I've heard that, you know, that some, uh,will just take your money and not do anything for
you. Some are wonderful if they believe in yourbook and are the type that, you know you should
get a recommendation for that.
Well, uh, in theory, an agent shouldn't take anymoney from you unless you earn money. In other
words, they take a percent of what you earn.
(39:11):
Yes, that would be the ideal wayto shoot for the more you read up on it and talk
to various people. I think that.
And people that, whose judgment you trust
and, and you have stick to it. Iveness. You havepatience and you keep going.
You have to be resilient. You really do.
All right, so tell me about teaching. What madeteaching for you fulfilling?
(39:33):
So I really did love teaching for the most part.
You learn a lot from your students and you learn alot about yourself. And I especially love teaching
English. Well, I love teaching science also,because you could kind of explore your work. I
don't love having to correct all the papers everynight.
(39:54):
Did you feel like you learned as much from yourstudents as they learned from you.
Totally. I just felt like it just opens up newworlds. Every kid's experience and every kid's
life is good, better, and different. Like, uh,just such an eye opener, you know, things that you
just never would expect that kids go through andhave to confront. And you try to help them the
(40:21):
best you can and have them say, you know, you weremy favorite teacher and I'll always remember you
and that kind of thing. And I would also make themdo
evaluations, which you have to be pretty braveabout. And I really learned a lot from.
I loved all the compliments, but from thecriticisms, I learned a hell of a lot.
So. All right, well, we're going to wind the showdown just a little bit now. Amy and M, in all of
(40:46):
your experiences, whether as a teacher or as awriter, can you share with us a story that's
either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or maybejust plain funny?
I was working in advertisement for advertising fora while, which, I mean, this is why I tell people,
don't get discouraged. I couldn't find a teachingjob for a while. And, um, this was back in the
(41:09):
70s, okay, so I worked in advertising.
Advertising, which was also fun and interestingand a lot of hard work. And I just did everything
for my boss because I was office, uh, manager,production manager, and so forth.
And he once said, okay, bring this in. Adcampaign. This was in New York City up to Neil
(41:31):
Simon, because this campaign featured differentcelebs. And it was like, so and so likes New York
magazine, because blah, blah, blah. So I was justabout to say, oh, this isn't my job, you know? Um,
what? I know I was in my mid-20s. And so as I waswalking up the street, I remember it was a
(41:52):
beautiful day in May. I'm like, what am I, crazy?
Of course I want to meet Neil Simon's agent. Youknow, I had wanted to be a writer at the time, you
know, So I go to this beautiful plush office, andI said, oh, can I talk to Mr. Simon? Because he
had said, oh, let's call him right now. I'm like,okay, cool. And I said on the phone, because I'm
(42:15):
always telling my kids and my students, you haveto be bold. I said, would you take a look at some
of my writing? And I hang up. And, uh, he sort ofunenthusiastically said, okay. Um, the agent said,
why didn't you ask me? And I said, well, you'reinterested in looking at my writing. And he said,
we're always looking for new writers. I'm like,okay, you know, not really believing him.
(42:37):
But I brought him and we ended up talking forhours.
Actually, I did bring him some of my writing andhe wrote me back and said, you dialogue crackles,
which I always remembered, but. And this is sofunny to think back on, you need more experience.
You need to have more experiences. Uh, I thinkabout that now. And he was right, because what did
(43:00):
I know at that time? So that kind of resonated andwe were in touch for.
He sort of mentored me for quitea while, which was really nice. And so just, I
don't know, it's a good thing to tell people whenyou're just about to say, hey, that's not really
supposed to be part of my job. I mean, I didn'tlike it at
the end of the day when myboss would say to me, here, go, go get my car for
(43:23):
me at 9 o' clock at night in a parking garage inNew York. And I tossed him back as keys and said,
no, I'm not doing that.
But that's a little of a different bag of worms.
But this, you know, turned out well and helpful.
Amy, this has been a fantastic chat with you todayon Story Beat, and I can't thank you enough for
your time, your energy and your wisdom. And I hopeeveryone that has any interest in reading your,
(43:48):
uh, books, they'll go out and check them out onAmazon and elsewhere. Especially Jelly Bean. Look
at the Jellybean books by Amy Pollock. Amy, thankyou so much for being on the show today.
Thank you so much, Steve. Take care. It was fun.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment right rating orreview on whatever app or platform you're
(44:11):
listening to. Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is
available on all major podcast apps and platforms,including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify,
iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until nexttime, I'm Steve Cuden and may all your stories be
(44:32):
unforgettable.
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