Charlie Adlard, Comic Book Artist-Illustrator-Episode #377

Charlie Adlard has been a veteran of the comics industry for over 25 years. From 2003 to 2019 he spent the majority of his time drawing The Walking Dead through the conclusion of its run as a comic book series. He received many industry awards for his work on the series, culminating in winning the 2019 Sergio Aragonés International Award for Excellence in Comic Art.

In his time as a cartoonist, Charlie has worked on many other projects as far-reaching as Mars Attacks, the X-Files, Judge Dredd, Savage, Batman, X-Men, and Superman.

He’s also drawn many creator-owned projects closer to his heart, like Astronauts In Trouble, Breath Of The Wendigo, Codeflesh, Rock Bottom, Vampire State Building, White Death, Damn Them All, Heretic, and Altamont.

 

Episode Transcript

Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat.
It's always good still to go to various events,conventions and things like that. As great as it
is to have, obviously social media and theInternet and everything nowadays to broaden your
work and get it seen more, to make eye contactwith a potential employer collaborator is

(00:24):
infinitely better than some, random email,science, social media post or whatever it might
be.
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden. A podcast forthe creative mind. Storybeat explores how masters
of creativity develop. And produce brilliant worksthat people everywhere love and admire. So join us

(00:50):
as we discover how. Talented creators find successin the worlds. Of imagination and entertainment.
Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. Well, my guest today, CharlieAdlard, has been a veteran of the comics industry

(01:15):
for over 25 years. From 2003 to 2019, he spent themajority of his time drawing the Walking Dead
through its conclusion as a comic book series. Hereceived many industry awards for his work on the
series, culminating in winning the 2019 SergioAragones International Award for Excellence in

(01:35):
Comic Art. In his time as a cartoonist, Charliehas worked on many other projects as far reaching
as Mars Attacks, the X Files, Judge Dredd, Savage,Batman, X Men, and Superman. He's also drawn many
creator owned projects closer to his heart, likeAstronauts in Trouble, Breath of the Wendigo Code,

(01:58):
Flesh, Rock Bottom, Vampire, State Building, WhiteDeath, Damn Them All, Heretic, and Altamont. So
for all those reasons and many more, I'm deeplyhonored and truly thrilled to have one of the
greatest cartoonists ever. Charlie Adlard joinedme on Story Beat today. Charlie, welcome to the

(02:18):
show.
Thank you, Steve that was amazing. Thank you. Ifeel very, my ego has been buoyed now nicely.
Thank you.
Well, we'll, we'll try to keep boying it as we go.
So let's go back in time just a little bit towhere all this began. Am I right that you started
out initially wanting to be a filmmaker? Is thatcorrect?

(02:40):
not, no, not wholly correct. A bit of it, yeah. Imean, I, I, that's what I did at univers. Well,
art, college. And that's kind of what I tried todo very briefly afterwards. But from the age of
about 6 up till about 18, all I wanted to do wasbe a comic book artist.

(03:03):
Okay, good, good. And so you were about six whenyou first got into it. What was it that brought
your attention to it in the first place?
Two things really. and they are kind of One ofsome of my earliest memories, one was I was very
lucky because my dad, well, my dad wasinstrumental in both these things. But my dad

(03:23):
owned a, ah, few shops, one of which was anewsagent. And one day he came home with something
behind his back which was a copy of Mighty Worldof Marvel Number one, which was the British
reprint. Obviously this is back in 1972. This wasa British reprint of obviously the classic Marvel

(03:45):
comics. And it was anthologized like all greatBritish comics were at the time. so very different
format to obviously American comic books. Andwithin the pages was Spider Man, Incredible Hulk
and the Fantastic Four. I remember gravitating atthe time mainly to the Fantastic Four because.

Steve Cuden (04:06):
Right.
Even at 6 I was a kind of a bit of a sci fi nut Ithink. So obviously that was, you know, it wasn't
the horror of the Hulk or the sort of teenageangst of Spider Man. This is you know, kind of as
hardcore sci fi as Marvel could probably get atthe time. So I remember really loving that. And I

(04:28):
think I was drawing before that, as a young kid,but of course you know, unfocused. And I think
post that all I drew were comics and genre stuff.
And also at the same time my dad took, well my dadused to go and fill up at this gas station and ah,
yeah, they were running a promotion at this, thispetrol station we were filling up at. And you know

(04:54):
once you got a certain amount of points you couldget a free asterisk book.
Okay.
And I remember the four you could get, you couldget Asterix the Ghoul, Asterix the Gladiator,
Asterix the Legionnaire and Asterix in the BigFight. And I absolutely devoured those. I used to
pester my dad to constantly go to this petrolstation to keep filling up so I could get these

(05:16):
books. So I didn't realize at the time as a sixyear old I was being fed American comic books on
one side and of course as we call them, you know,French, Bond design. Obviously I didn't realize
that was what it was then. on the other, did youstart.
To imitate that, those styles by drawing what theywere doing?

(05:38):
Oh absolutely, yeah. I remember mainly drawingsort of superhero stuff. But I do remember trying
to imitate you know, say Udo's drawings forAsterix. And I also remember, you know, when I was
pretty young trying to imitate Schulz's stuff forPeanuts as well, trying to capture what he could

(05:58):
do in three lines. And I think at that early age Iprobably learned how less is more with cartoons.
Well, isn't it amazing that that's reallychallenging to do a, four panel comic or a one
panel comic and make it impactful? That's reallyhard to do.
Oh, absolutely. You know, and I think someoneespecially like Schulz was sort of teaching me

(06:23):
that because, you know, I can't. I couldn't drawSnoopy, I couldn't draw Charlie Brown. But to my,
you know, young brain, it was like, why can't I dothis? Because it's just a couple of lines. I can
do a couple of lines. Look. And m. It neverlooked. Yeah, obviously it just never looked as
good. And you know, you kind of realize that myyoung brain is sort of working out. That's the

(06:43):
skill of a, you know, a brilliant cartoonist is.
Is to do something that good in as little, youknow, sort of mark making as possible.
Do you think of yourself as a cartoonist orgraphic illustrator? Do you have a specific
thought in your head as to what you refer toyourself as? Is it cartoonish?

(07:03):
Yeah, I always call myself a cartoonist because Ibelieve we all cartoon. It's as simple as that.
Going back to shorts again, it's like he just doesit to more of an extreme than I do. you know, I'm
obviously more based in the, shall we say, thereality, side of it. And Schulz is kind of the
other side of it, which is almost based in thekind of, well, I don't know what you call it. The

(07:27):
surreal Arab. Can't even say the word.
it's more fantasy and childlike. Yours is muchmore realistic and natural and impactful as an
adult. And his is more, I think, more impactful ona little kid.
Small children as. Yeah. First impressions. Yes.

(07:49):
And then you realize how mature.
Oh, oh. It's way beyond as an adult to go back andlook at Peanuts, that's for sure. do you know if
it was Schultz? Was that what got you to goforward or it was really going back to asterisks
and the Marvel comics. Is that what did it?
I think it was the first two definitely were thebig influences. Well, kind of like what you said

(08:14):
as a kid. I just gravitated towards stuff likePeanuts just because of its childlike. Well, the
things that attract you as a child. It's simple asthat, that sort of simplistic cartooning.
Did you realize early on that it was all aboutreally storytelling more than just images?
No, not, not no, not when I was a kid. that'sprobably, that's probably why it was easier, ah,

(08:38):
to I suppose, for want of a better word, exceptMarvel Comics or, or you know, asterisks even.
Because even though asterisks is that sort ofclassic cartooning, I mean what that was doing was
imposing, which is a very classic sort of Frenchway is imposing sort of cartoony figures in highly

(09:01):
realistic backgrounds, kind of. Which Iappreciated because that's how I liked, you know,
how I watched Disney cartoons or things like that,you know. But the background's beautifully
watercolor painted so it had that kind of impactagain. But Asterix especially, I mean, I still
read Asterix. I mean I have every single Asterixbook. I'm massive Asterix. Wow. And you know, I

(09:28):
even have the ones that Gossini, you know, afterGossini died, you know, Udizo took over and did
some really good ones and then when he got olderthey weren't so good and I still have those and
you know, now there's a new creative team and youknow, they're getting better. So yeah, I'm still,
I'm still in there with with our Gaulish friend.

(09:51):
And on the American side too, because that's real.
I think that's very fascinating. Of course yougrew up in England, so your influen would be from,
that perspective for sure. But you were also beinginfluenced by American authors and artists as
well. Who were you looking at at that point? Wasit the Jack Kirbys and the Steve Ditkos of the
world? Is that who you admired?

(10:12):
Well, I mean, I can't deny their influence becausethat's who, you know, again, as a six year old,
that's what I was reading. Yeah, I didn't know whothese people were at the time. the first artist I
remember, seeing and kind of thinking, oh, I likethis artist's work. I need to seek out more of.
This artist was back in the UK and I wasn'treading American comic books in their actual

(10:37):
American comic book form probably until I leftschool, but up until then. So I was, yeah, I was
getting into my sort of, you know, late teensbefore I really started reading the proper source
material stuff. so it was all Marvel UK. I meanlike saying Marvel UK were canny enough to produce
this stuff for the UK market, whereas DC weren't.

(11:00):
So I'm not as familiar with the DC stuff purelybecause I didn't read any DC up until I was in my,
probably in my 20s, really.
So you. You were only really looking at Marveluntil you were in your 20s then?
Yeah, I mean, I was obviously aware of DC Comicsand I was aware of the characters and things, but
m. Marvel produced stuff for the uk. It's assimple as that. It was a, I think, a really clever

(11:23):
business decision at the time. But of course,everything was anthologized, as I said before,
because that, was, you know, the kind of the. Theway comics were accepted over in the uk. So. But
what I was going to say was, Obviously back in1978, Star Wars Weekly came out, obviously
serializing all the Star wars comics. but in thebackup, they had a strip called Micronauts, which

(11:49):
was based on the Toy series at the time. But theartist was a guy called Michael golden. And, he's
the first artist. I actually sort of, I supposeinverted commas noticed primarily because the UK
comics were produced cheaply, so most of them weremainly black and white. And Golden's artwork stuck

(12:12):
out because he was a brilliant black and whiteartist. You know, he used strong blacks, you know,
nice contrast, that, sort of chiaroscuro effectand everything. So, yeah, I just remember just
absolutely lapping the Micronauts up and lookingfor this one particular artist afterwards. And

(12:33):
that was probably my first artist that I got into.
You. You bring up the black and white, and we'regoing to get more to the Walking Dead in a little
bit. But, you. Most of all of the Walking Deadthat you drew was black and white, correct? Yeah.
And so that's. It's, shadows and light andpositive and negative imagery and all the rest of

(12:54):
it. why black and white? What does that do? Whatdoes that do for the reader, for the viewer?
I mean, I don't know why I gravitated to that morethan sort of line art, you know, because it could
be going back, like I say originally, to readingall these comics when I was young, because they

(13:15):
were all printed in black and white. And if yousaw Kirby's stuff or Ditko stuff stuff, or John
Basema's stuff or whatever, it was great. But itwas a bit very open because there was no color in
it. whereas, like, say something, somebody likegolden comes along, when he does these strong
blacks, you kind of go, oh, this works on thepage. So I don't know why I fell in love with

(13:40):
very. That sort of strong contrast sort ofartwork. But, yeah, there's a lot of artists out
there, you know, that I really admire that arereally strong with with that kind of effect.
That's your preference to draw as black and white,I assume? Yes, it was.
I mean, I've recently, I've done a lot more colorwork and you have to temper your style, obviously

(14:06):
a bit to accommodate that. But, yeah, I mean, my.
I'm very lucky because I'm probably one of thevery, very few artists that have worked for, you
know, the American industry that's made a decentliving out of drawing comics that haven't been
colored. Because the general perception,especially in American comic books, is, you know,

(14:28):
it's not going to sell unless it's in color. So weslightly disprove them. Wrong with the Walking
Dead?
Well, slightly. I mean, it's a massive hit. It wasa massive number one hit for quite a long time.
And then of course, the TV series and virtualspinoffs from the first series have been gigantic,
especially for American audiences and around theworld. I'm going to ask you a question. I ask lots

(14:52):
of guests. Frequently it's about story, but inthis case I'm going to ask you about imagery. What
for you, makes a great image? Great. Ooh.
an eye for design. That's what I'd say. You know,over the years I've sort of really come to
appreciate design in any art form. You know,there's a. A lot of comic book artists rely on,

(15:19):
obviously, you know, the impact that especially,again, especially in American comic books. It's
that big sort of splash of action or whatever. Youknow, it's fine. I'm perfectly happy, with people
that gravitate towards that. But for me, a greatcover, is. Doesn't have to be something that's
taken, you know, days to draw. You know, it's justthat single, some image that just works well.

(15:48):
There are certainly lots of images that are kindof. And you have a lot of them in your work where
it's kind of raw feeling, it doesn't feel overlyrefined. And And I think that there's an energy in
that that's very attractive. Is that what you'retalking about?
Yeah, sort of. I mean, I was cite an example of,an artist that I absolutely adore, and he's not a

(16:12):
comic book artist at all. But I love the work ofSaul Bass.
Oh, sure, yeah.
The great movie title film poster designer.
Yeah.
And he just had that ability to take an image andbreak it down to. It's such a utter simple
components, especially in a period in the sort ofthe late 50s, early 60s when he was doing all the,

(16:34):
you know, the Hitchcock stuff and everything, youlook at it and just go, wow, this is just so
different to everything else. And he's createdsuch iconic imagery. And I think. I think a
problem a lot of us, especially comic book artistsand illustrators have is. Is trying to cope with

(16:55):
the sort of thing, if you're doing a cover and ittakes, say, half a day to do, but it's a great
design, you always feel like you need to overworkit because you don't feel you're justified in the
cost of what you're being paid, over the timetaken. But I can't remember who said it, but
somebody said at some point, you know, it's notthe time it takes to do an image, because it's

(17:20):
that 30 years of learning how to get.
That's exactly right. Well, it took Einstein quitesome time to come up with E equals MC squared. I
mean, it's a very simple formula, but it's theentire universe, basically. and you can look at,
the work of, for instance, Fred Astaire in movies.
it took him hours and hours and hours and hours ofpractice to get it to look like it was effortless.

(17:44):
And that's what I think is ingenious. The geniusis to make it look like you just tossed it off.
It was the genius to make it look like anyonecould do it.
Right.
I mean, that's literally. Yeah, that's literallygoing back to Peanuts again, isn't it?
It is.
Schultz, he makes it look like, oh, that's just acouple of lines. That's really easy. And it's
probably makes it more relatable then, becausepeople do think, oh, I could draw that, you know,

(18:09):
and it's instantly iconic as well, of course.
And all you have to do is say, go ahead, draw it.
See if you can do it. And of course, most peoplecan't.

Charlie Adl (18:18):
And then you can't.
what do you do in your mind's eye to take, Iguess, other people's words, or. Unless you create
a story and turn that into a story in a panel orseveral panels, how do you interpret the words
into a visual story? Because that's what you'redoing.

(18:41):
Yeah. it's one of those questions that's reallyhard to answer, because I just do it, you know,
I'm.

Steve Cud (18:50):
It's natural for you.
Yeah. I mean, it's. I am the world's. One of theworld's most uncoordinated people, really. Give me
a ball, and I can't Kick it. I guarantee you that,it's like asking a footballer, how do you, you
know, how do you kick a ball or whatever? And forme it's magic. But for the footballer, it's just

(19:11):
this, the most natural thing in the world. So Ican't understand how somebody can't do what I can
do because, you know, because I just.

St (19:21):
I tell you what, I, I can't.
But you know, we've all got hands, we all can movethe same way. Do you know what I mean? You know, I
do. It's. It's one of those really, really oddthings. So I, I just see, as soon as I get a
script, I just see the imagery in my head. I dosort of treat it like a movie. I see it kind of

(19:45):
like a movie. and that's how I get thestorytelling. Right, is it, you know, you sort of
just think, well, how would it look visually? Howwould it look? How would it work? And I just sort
of see the stages that, you know, the script tellsme is happening. And you know, and some scripts
are highly detailed. some scripts, like Robertscript for the Walking Dead, were not detailed at

(20:10):
all. But, you know, you worked for 16 years withsomebody, you know, you're going to use a lot of
shorthand. M. Of course, yeah, I just saw it.
It's. That's all I can say.
So, so it's, you're seeing the, the script comealive in your mind's eye and the visual imagery is
in your mind?
Yes, pretty much, yeah. I mean, I always, Peoplewill say, oh, how'd you work from, you know, the

(20:36):
blank page? I go, well, I haven't got a blankpage, have I? I've got a script. I have the
inspiration. That's my jumping off point. I wouldstruggle to be a fine artist. And I always say the
only difference between a fine artist and, and anillustrator is a fine artist can go in their
studio and just literally just go, what can I dotoday? And just literally start to paint, sculpt,

(21:01):
whatever. Whereas an illustrator, exactly the samelevel of talent, skill, whatever, but we need some
impetus, we need some inspiration. We need, youknow, we need a project, basically. I mean, a good
example is when I was a, few years back, I wasdoing life drawing quite regularly with, another

(21:25):
comic artist friend.
And there are beautiful examples of that on yourwebsite. Absolutely wonderful examples. Thank you.
Yeah, well, I kept going back for at least two or,at least three or four years. Primarily because
after about the second or third time going there,I Suddenly thought, oh, I can get a book out of
this. And, that kept me going back. A project, yousee, I turned it into a project. And yeah, I did.

(21:51):
I did a very small run of a life drawing book, youknow, and Vanity publishing, you know, 101 this
is. But yeah, I did it. And. But the crazy thingis as soon as I did the book, I haven't been back
again.
You got it out of your. You got it out of yoursystem kind of.

Charlie Ad (22:08):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So your work, I think, is a form of fine art,believe it or not. That's just the way I see it.
But that's my admiration for what it is you donow. You're. I think that your work is light years
ahead of what we would think of in movies as astoryboard. But you're kind of making storyboards

(22:29):
as a comic book, isn't that true?
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I mean, doing storyboardsis incredible. I mean, I've never done them per
se, but. But, I think doing storyboards, there'sless left to your imagination. Between the panels,
everything is, boom. Yeah, this happens. This hasto happen. This has to happen. This specific.

(22:50):
Yeah, I think comic books, you do have to have anelement of learning how to read them. It's as
simple as that. I don't think with storyboards,you don't.
So you raise a really great question for me, whichis how do you. And again, you're going to say you
do it naturally, but there has to be a decisionmaking process to add a panel and to add an image,

(23:11):
but to leave something out so that it is for thereader's imagination. How do you make that
decision? Is it just what you're seeing in yourhead and that's it, or is there a decision making
process?
Well, there is a bit of both. It's what I'm seeingin my head, but obviously my mind is made up that
decision. Yeah, I've always been a, The first ideais generally the best idea. The one that comes

(23:36):
naturally. Like, like that, is. Is the one I tendto go with. Hm. So there's not much
procrastination and there.
Can'T be in your business. You have to move, don'tyou?
Back in the old days, I did. It's a bit morerelaxed nowadays, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Well, absolutely. Yeah. You really hadto move fast as well. It's not a. It's not, it's

(24:00):
not an industry for, you know, mulling over your,your work and constantly refining it. Because
there just isn't the time to do something likethat.
So I come at the. I come at all of this from a.
From a similar but different perspective entirely,which is I've written 90 cartoons for. For kids
animation. I've written 90 animation scripts. Andyou have to work very fast in that industry too.

(24:25):
You can't dawdle and dwell. You have to churn itout because it's for tv, so it has that similar
thing. And I too, see the story in my mind's eyelike you do. But I then am always surprised by
what the artists do with my words. Are you eversurprised by how people come back and interpret

(24:46):
your work to you?
Well, I mean, a lot of writers that I've workedwith, obviously in the past have all said how.

Steve Cuden (24:54):
What.
How. What a great job it is as a writer becauseit's so great to see their ideas visualized, you
know, and it's always an excitement. It's always akind of a thrill to see their script sort of being
given. Yeah. Inverted comms, life. So, I'm onlygoing by what my partners in crime say, but,

(25:20):
Yeah, yeah. Are you drawing for a certain audiencein your mind's eye, or are you drawing for
yourself?
No, I draw for myself. I think if you try, it's. Ithink most people would say this. If you try and
please a certain, you know, demographic, you're.
You're on to a, Ah. yeah, a losing streak, aren'tyou? So, no, I always say it's, it's. It's better

(25:45):
to draw for more, you know, for thousands ofpeople than it is to draw for a couple of people.
I don't do many commissions at all, primarilybecause I don't like the idea of pleasing that one
person. Because then the pressure's on, to pleaseone person. Whereas, you know, when you're drawing

(26:07):
for a comic that might sell, I don't know, for thesake of argument, 40,000 copies, you know, you
know, going in. You're not going to please 40,000people at the same time. So you might as well do
what pleases you, right. And hope that at leasthalf of those 40,000 people will quite like what
you do. And then the best, the best work comes outof it because it's your thing, it's what you've

(26:30):
wanted to do.
It's. That's what the audience really wants. Theywant to find out what it is that makes you tick.
And then they get turned on by that, usually ifthat's. What. If you've done good work, which most
of the time you have. do you ever come acrossstories that come your way that stump you that you
can't get a vision on them? Does that ever happen?
no. I know it sounds crazy. I don't think I'veever had a kind of. I mean, there's been

(26:55):
storytelling challenges.
Give us an example. What's a storytellingchallenge?
I mean, most of the challenges. It sounds awful.
Come. Come from a writer, not knowing their craftas well as they should. just because they're
saying, you know, giving a character two things todo, but it's in one panel. Something like that.

(27:20):
I'm going to have to split this panel in halfbecause you can't show that, and that happening.
Yeah. At the same time, that's. That's not comics.
Well, that's like trying to give an actordirection that has two totally separate emotional
moments in one. And they can't do it. They can'tdo it.

Charlie Ad (27:36):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Steve Cuden (27:38):
So.
So a bit of it comes from that. I, you know, Ican't really. I can't really think of an example
beyond that.
That's a good example. I mean, that. That makessense. If you. If somebody writes a script and
they give it to you and it's instructing you to dotwo separate things in one panel, well, how could
you do it?
Well, it's impossible. I mean, I tend to. Like Isay, I tend to just rough out the page anyway and

(28:05):
add an extra panel and just say, look, I'vedivided this up into two panels because it makes
the storytelling a lot clearer. But, you know,it's a fairly obvious thing to say, but I don't
think sometimes comic book artists tend to, ignoreit. But story is king at the end of the day.
I have said for a very long time that the greatestspecial effect in movies is great storytelling.

Charlie (28:31):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And that's the same for you, isn't it? Yeah,great.
Great storytelling, great characters which sort ofgoes in with the same. Not invested in either of
those. You're just. What's the point?
Well, that's what's drawing the audience in. So itdraws you in. You're part of the audience, I'm
part of the audience. And if we're drawn in, thenthere's a chance that others are drawn into it. do

(28:54):
you ever also write the stories that you draw, orare you always just drawing?
No, no, I can't write. It's as simple as that. I'dfreely admit that no I've never had the. I've
never had sort of inspiration to do so. Neverreally come up with an idea that I thought, oh, I

(29:15):
could write this or whatever.
Have you ever. Have you ever come up with an ideaand gave it to someone else to write for you?
Yes, twice. But the very bare bones of an idea,once was the book called White Death. I remember
approaching Robbie Morrison, my friend that wrotethat. And Robbie and I go way, way back. We've

(29:36):
known each other for decades. And I said to Robbieat the time, I said, I'd really like to do a book
set in World War I. And. And I want to do it inthese specific materials, which at the time was
charcoal and chalk on gray paper, which was, youknow, quite sort of experimental, obviously. But,

(29:59):
yeah, that, that. That was because I'd justfinished the. My run on the X Files and hadn't had
a particular particularly great experience withthat. So I kind of wanted to almost go completely
the other way and. And do something quiteexperimental. And then Robbie came up with the
story of White Death, because of that. So that wasgreat. And my most recent project, which was

(30:23):
Altamont, that again was myself talking to thewriter and saying, I really want to do a book,
hopefully set in the 60s, because I want to dosomething along those lines and never done
anything historically set in that time period. AndI want to do something about music. And preferably
could we set it at, a festival? So. And I think.

(30:48):
No, actually, no, I came up with doing. Actually,no, I. It was more detailed than that. It was. I.
I had decided I wanted to do Altamont because Iwas quite interested in, you know, sort of the end
of the 60s and how the hippie ideal was sort of,you know, basically destroyed by that and the
Manson murders. And I kind of thought the Mansonmurders had been done to death, no pun intended.

(31:17):
Whereas Ultima, you know, was. Was the lesserknown of the two. That was the significance, sort
of. Yeah. End of. End of it all. so, was it.
Was it then fictionalized? I've not read Ultimon,so I don't know. Is it, Is it fictionalized?
Oh, no, no. Well, Ultimon. Have you heard ofUltimon?

Steve Cuden (31:37):
Sure.
Yeah. We're telling a fictional story against thebackdrop of the Ultimon festival.
Got it. That was the Hell's Angels, right?

Charlie A (31:47):
Yeah, that's the one.

Steve Cuden (31:48):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I didn't want to do Ultima the storybecause a. Doing music in comics is probably the
hardest thing to do. Because there's no sound.
Yes. That makes it challenging to have no soundand be about music.
Exactly. So you've got to sort of do somethingelse to make it work. So, you know, we figured out

(32:13):
that the best thing to do was to tell the storyabout another group of kids that, that go to
Altamont Festival and have their own sort of,shall we say, heart to darkness story that goes on
with the backdrop of Altamont going on. So you'reconstantly cutting back to the certain events
happening. But it's more background and it's greatbecause then you don't really need to concentrate.

(32:34):
I've always wanted to do a book about music, butnot specifically like lots of shots of bands or
whatever playing because again that just seemsjust. Just something that doesn't work in comics.
No. Music does not usually take a still image.
You, you can get, you can get really beautifulimages, photographs and so on of a musician

(32:57):
playing. But there's not. You're not going to getmuch story out of it.
No, exactly. and actually the visuals, if you.
Anyone out there that they want to Google, youknow, Ultima, the visuals speak for themselves
anyway because, you know, it was you know,visually it was a hell of a thing. So, you know,
it's just mad this, this, this almost 200,000people free festival where, where there's a stage

(33:23):
where you've got the general public just hangingaround on the stage and it's insane.
It is insane.
Yeah, absolutely insane. It just. The bands musthave felt so claustrophobic on those stages.
Well, would never happen today. You know, it wassomething that they'd get nowhere near there
today. does that require a lot of research on yourpart before you start to draw?

(33:50):
Yeah, I mean my last few projects actually haveall been very, very research heavy. You know,
Heretic as well, which was written with my friendRobbie as well, which was a book set in 16th
century Antwerp, all about the sort of the SpanishInquisition and you know, witch trials and things

(34:12):
like that. So obviously a lot of research requiredfor that one. I mean, originally Robbie and I were
making plans to actually go to Antwerp and takephotographs and stuff. But unfortunately we
started the book around about early 2020. Well,what happened in 2020 which prevented.

(34:34):
Us from just, just a tiny worldwide pandemic.
So, so I had to rely on a lot of Google imagesearch unfortunately with stuff like that. And
yeah, Ultimom same. I mean I'm very. Again, it allgoes back to my love of French Bon desine as well.

(34:55):
Because, you know, the big difference between theEuropean comics industry and the American stroke
British comics industry is the. The Americans relyon sort of impact and big visuals and sort of
action and that sort of stuff. Whereas, yeah, I'mvery much talking in general terms here, but

(35:18):
whereas the French industry sort of relies more.
It's more. It's karma. it. It relies more on asense of place. so there's a lot more research
done, things like that. I mean, you know, just.
Just goes to, you know, if you think of thecomparison between. Going way, way back, as I was
talking about, between Asterisk and, you know, theMarvel comics I was reading at the same time, the

(35:40):
difference is incredible. You know, as. Ascartoony as asterisk was, the research in it is
just unbelievable, you know, and all thebackgrounds are, impeccably researched, and I kind
of love that. so Ultimo, which originally was aBond design, a comic, it was French, and it will
be actually next in December. It's finally comingout, in English from Image Comics.

(36:05):
Nice.
So there will be an English translation. It's abit weird telling an American story, but it's not
the first time.
And the Americans, have told lots of stories fromall over the world that have nothing to do with
America. So it works.

Charlie Adlard (36:19):
No, absolutely.
Storytelling is storytelling, isn't it, Charlie?
It's people in conflict with other people or theircircumstances. That's what it boils down to in
all, almost all great, memorable, popularstorytelling. And it's. In your case, you're
famous for having drawn a comic book for a longtime. the series the Walking Dead, in which it's

(36:42):
ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances,not superheroes, but normal people that become
heroic.
Yes, absolutely. That's why I did it. It's assimple as that. I remember. I can't say I had the.
There was no way I had the foresight to see howbig it would become. But when Robert first asked

(37:04):
me whether I'd like to draw this little zombiecomic, as if we referred to it at the time, I was
in between jobs, so, you know, I was a journeymanartist at the time. So I kind of just went with it
and said, yeah, okay, I guess I'll do that for abit. And then when I got the first issue, the

(37:25):
first script of the first issue that I was goingto draw, I remember thinking, oh, this is a bit
different. This is not just zombie mayhem. and Ithink if it was literally just zombie mayhem, we
might have lasted 12 issues maximum 20.

Steve Cuden (37:41):
Sure.
Or something like that. And then we'd have beendone. Yeah. People have lost interest. So, you
know, the whole point of the Walking Dead wasexactly as what you said. It's ordinary people in
extraordinary circumstances, which just happens tobe the zombie apocalypse. I've always said, you
know, it's the biggest MacGuffin in the book arethe zombies.

(38:02):
Well, the zombies are just a backdrop at thispoint, you know, and they started off, they were
important, but now they're still important as animpediment for your characters to get to their
goal.
But, yeah, it's to get the character from A to B.
Yeah. It's as simple as that.
so. So forgive me if I use a term. I don't mean itto be insulting in any way, shape or form, but

(38:22):
from a storytelling perspective, it's kind of likea zombie soap opera.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, Marvel comics,you know, they're soap operas.
That's absolutely right. It's characters with allthese extraordinary things happening to them. And.
And what it boils down to is how do they resolvewhatever the objective is? That's that they're

(38:45):
trying to get to whatever that goal is. And so a,serialized story like the Walking Dead becomes one
goal after another after another. What'sinteresting to me about the Walking Dead is I
never, ever, because I've watched every episode ofevery one of the series as well, and I still, to
this day, don't know what the ultimate goal isbeyond survival. But that's an important goal, to

(39:10):
stay alive. And so there's all these obstacles inthe way. That's what the storytelling is for me in
that show and in what you created. Can you thinkof a goal beyond that? That's in there, beyond
survival?
Surely to survive is everyone's. Is everyone'sultimate goal. Yeah, it's just they're a bit more,

(39:32):
precious about survival as we might be. well, no,it just. And of course, you know, sticking them in
that sort of situation heightens the emotion aswell. So,
Well, so now there's lots of death. Obviously.
It's called the Walking Dead, and there's a lot ofdead people walking around. And by the way, I'm
talking to you from Pittsburgh, which is thebeginning of the zombie, apocalypse, basically

(39:55):
through George Romero.

Charl (39:57):
George Romero's hometown.
Absolutely correct. And I've met George. Neverworked with him, but have met him. And so I'm just
curious, what is it when you read that, when youread Robert Kirkman's work What was it about the
death part of it that attracted you? It's a weirdquestion, but you spent a lot of time drawing
death.

(40:17):
Yeah, yeah. it didn't attract me. I know it soundscrazy. That's the thing that didn't attract me. I
was never a, always sounds slightly disingenuouswhen I say this, but I was never a big zombie fan,
before the Walking Dead or even after it. I mean,I like horror movies as much as I like dramas or

(40:39):
sci fi or whatever. you know, I've watched my fairshare of zombie movies. I'm a child of the, you
know, kind of in the UK anyway, of the video nastygeneration, you know, So I watched a lot of gory
zombie movies in my late teens, but I didn'tperceive them as, oh, great, I'm going to draw

(41:01):
zombies for the next X number of years.
You know, it didn't turn you off, but it wasn'tsomething that drew you in either.
No, no. And people expect me to be this amazingzombie expert as well just because I've drawn them
for so long and I'm not. You know, it's as simpleas that. And I. Look, don't get me wrong, it's not
like I don't like drawing them at all. But like Isaid to you at the beginning, as we both agreed,

(41:25):
they are literally a way of getting the charactersA to B.

Steve Cuden (41:30):
Sure.
And, it's kind of that the apocalypse could havebeen any apocalypse. It just happened to be a
zombie.
They are, they are a source of what isindispensable and great storytelling. And that's
conflict. They are a source of conflict. Andbecause it is in the title of the entire series,
you have to keep coming back to those characters.

(41:53):
We have to put in the old zombie here and again.
And people are freaked out about them so that itkeeps bringing people back to go, what's going to
happen? How's that going to work? How are theygoing to survive? So that's exactly what it is.
There is actually a moment in the Walking Dead andI can't remember what issue precisely, but we're

(42:13):
probably about 2/3 of the way into the whole runwhere the characters do actually have a discussion
amongst themselves about actually the zombiesaren't that much of a threat anymore because we're
all so good at killing them. It's true that theyaren't. They literally have that conversation. And

(42:33):
you know, Robert has certain ways of always ofsurprising us with, with various sort of
confrontations with zombies. They're never justkind of put out to pasture. That's it. but, there
is an element where they become less of a threatactually.
We, the audience though, we get thrown for curves,loops because occasionally someone that we're

(42:56):
invested in does get bit or, and winds up dead andthat throws us for a loop.
Yeah, that's the drama, isn't it? I mean thegreat, you know, it's always great to have a drama
where you're never sure who's going to survive aswell.
Well, that's it.
I mean, that's great drama. You know, we're, weare now, you know, well, thanks to, not just

(43:19):
streaming but, you know, TV channels like, I don'tknow, the original HBO and things like that where,
where suddenly TV shows didn't cease to become,you know, the episode of the week and the case was
solved or the monster of the week and all thecharacters remained unchanged. And there's never
any kind of threat to the core characters whichadded, you know, less drama to the whole thing.

(43:45):
When you knew A, B and C were just going to liveto the end of whatever. now, now you're in a
completely different landscape where you're reallynot sure sure who's going to, you know, and it
only takes a TV show or a comic or whatever it isto kill off a core character. And the most
unexpected way, you know, Hitchcock was the firstto do it, wasn't he? So, yeah. Which, which

(44:11):
utterly throws you off course.
So this is all about cliffhangers and drawing youinto the next episode, the next book, whatever it
would be the next. That's where you're keeping theaudience coming back. And that I think, I think
goes back to Dickens and Penny Dreadful novelswhere you're, you get stopped at, at the end of
this week's episode, what's going to happen next?

(44:32):
So that's part of where it goes back to. But yes,it's now more open ended and you don't know who's
going to make it. And that, I think is what peoplereally get, drawn in by, How hard was it for you
to stick with Drawing the walking dead for 16years? How did you keep at it?
Well, I know it sounds crazy to say it, but itseemed quite easy just to keep doing.

(44:56):
Wow.
well, I, I used to moan to, you know, mycontemporaries and stuff that, oh, I'm never on a,
never been put on a regular series because I'd bereally good on a regular series because I'm very
efficient. I'm Very fast. Or was. Anyway, youknow, I've kind of. My lifestyle is a bit, you

(45:18):
know, I'm a routine sort of guy, you know, so itall fits in with my kind of, the way I work, the
way I live. So as soon as I got on the WalkingDead, obviously it was brilliant because I had a
regular thing. it's testament to Robert's writing.
The man can write amazing stories. And he justkept pulling me in the. The odd time. I might have

(45:39):
thought, oh, this is all getting a bit stale. He'ddo something thing which would just pull me back
in again. So it's testament how great thecharacters were. Great the plots were. and also I
did. I know it sounds crazy because a lot ofpeople can't believe this when I say it, but I
generally would do. You know, I had to do 22 pagesa, month, plus a cover. And, I find it quite easy.

(46:05):
I always had spare time.
Wow. Wow.
It wasn't like I was working and burning the, youknow, sort of both ends of the candle or whatever
and just working 18 hours a day just trying to getthis thing done. That's probably a good reason why
I kept doing it as well, because it wasn't thathard.
So it stayed. It stayed fresh for you?

(46:27):
Yeah, it stayed fresh. And there were certaintechniques I used as well that kept things moving
at, a pace.
Like what?
Well, two things mainly. we got about 20 issues inwhen I suddenly reduced the page size because
generally speaking, most comic book artists drawdouble size up. because that's just what you do.

(46:47):
And obviously this, this is pre digital. When Istarted the Walking Dead, so I'm physically
drawing it, I reduced the size. I literally drewalmost to the same size the comic. 20 odd issues
in, something like that to, save time, you know,literally less space to fill.
Right.
It's a practical thing. And, and the other thing Iused to do was I'm. I'm very. Yeah, sort of goes

(47:13):
with my kind of routine sort of personality. Youknow, I, I literally started from page one, worked
through to page 22, top start, top left, work tobottom right. You know, I never deviated that. I
think that keeps the story flowing. But also, assoon as I finished a page, I put it away. I
wouldn't look at it again.
Ever.

(47:35):
Yes. And regret it. Because the next time I lookat it, it'd be printed. Yeah. that, that's the,
that's how you have to do it, though. I'm sure yousay the same thing. With writing scripts from
animation shows.
So. So you're not a. You're not a revisionist. Youdon't draw something and then come back and revise
or eliminate something or take a panel out or adda panel. You're not. That's not how you operate.

(48:00):
Well, I do more now, obviously, because I'm in anice lucky position. I can afford to do it. But
back then, no, I wasn't a revisionist, so tospeak. But that was because of the practicalities
of doing 22 pages every month. And I just knew ifI just put it aside, because if you don't put it

(48:22):
aside, you're just going to constantly go back andrefine it, and there's just not the time to refine
it at all. At the end of the day, when you'redoing a regular comic book like that, you know, as
much as. As an art form, it is, it's still thecomic book industry.
Sure.
And you've got to. You've got to deliver. Andyou've also got to remember that 99.5% of people

(48:50):
that are going to read your book aren't thatfussed about the artwork, in terms of, you know,
whether this head's too big on this character ordo you know what I mean? All the stuff that you
would refine and go back and adjust because youjust don't like the technique you've used on it,
or you don't like this figure's a bit wrong orwhatever. So you've got to accept the fact that

(49:12):
most people think you're an utter genius.
But I'm gonna guess you don't think you're agenius.
No, I don't. No. I'm far from a genius. I thinkthe word genius is used.
Very lightly, I think, and you correct me if I'mwrong. I think most artists, and I'm talking about

(49:36):
all forms of art, Dancers, choreographers,writers, et cetera. I believe most artists, as
they work, know where all of the seams are andknow where all the mistakes are. And they see it.
And the. The people that are observing it as anaudience, they're not noticing any of it. They're
just seeing the finished work. So you don't. Youfeel like my work's not perfect, it's not that

(50:00):
great. I know what I did, and it took me a whileto do it, and I. I made these mistakes and I got
there and I'm okay with it. I think most artistsare like that. Don't you think?
Yeah. Ah. I think I think if I did the perfectpage, I give up. no, seriously, because, Because I
think the reason we as creative people and like Isay, I'm referring to literally everyone in the

(50:25):
creative industry. I think if you get to a point,the whole point you carry on is because you want
to achieve that almost unachievable goal.
Sure.
That's your inspiration. You want to constantlyget better and get better and get better and then
get to a certain point where you just go, well,that's it, I've done it. I've achieved my perfect.

(50:51):
Whatever you've achieved, then your life is over.
Your life is over. Where'd you go from the perfectpage? I mean, no one, no one achieves it. That's.
That's the thing.
It's all about the journey to get to that. It'sthat.
Exactly that. That's what makes m. That's whatmakes it so fun.
I agree with you. So tell me a little bit aboutsome of your original stuff. You've already told

(51:14):
us about Altamont and Heretic and so on. Do youfind that to be more fulfilling because it's your
original stuff rather than you're working undersomeone else's shingle? Ah. So to speak.
Yeah, well, I mean, my career literally is dividedinto two completely separate parts really. There's
obviously pre Walking Dead and post Walking Dead,I, mean basically the Walking Dead, because that

(51:40):
was obviously creator owned anyway, has enabled meto, you know, kick back, relax.
Sure.
I'll never not be busy because I love doing what Ido. It's as simple as that. but so to you, it's.
It's not a job, is it? It's just what you do.
I am at my most relaxed when I'm sat here drawing.
There you go.

(52:00):
yeah. So no, it's not a job. I love doing it.
Yeah.
I wouldn't do it. It's not the sort of thing youdo to torture yourself.
So.
Yeah, I could think of much, much, much easierthings to do. But, yeah, so post Walking Dead, I
found myself in the enviable position that I couldjust pick and choose what I wanted to do. So why

(52:24):
would I want to do other people's characters?
People always ask me, you know, especially in theAmerican sort of comic book industry, they will
say, what character would you like to work onnext? Or whatever. And I just go, well, my own.
It's as simple as that. I'm not interested in, oh,I'd really like to do Spider man or, you know,

(52:48):
I've sort of done that anyway.
Right.
and that. That's where I get the most how. How I'mmost fulfilled. It's just owning your own stuff.
But you get to create everything then, and you ownit, which is. And I'm not talking about in just a
monetary way in terms of, oh, you know, we couldhave a Hollywood deal here or whatever. It's just

(53:09):
great because you're in complete control of whatyou do with it. and you never are with, obviously,
other people's characters. That's why in ourindustry, you get. If you work for the. Well,
especially if you work for the, you know, the twobig American companies, Marvel and dc, you get
paid rather relatively handsomely, especially ifyou're fast, you know, per, page. Because they're

(53:33):
basically paying you off.
Yes, they are.
That's what they're doing. You know, they're justsaying, well, we'll give you all this money, but
you've got absolutely no claim on what you've justdrawn. It's as simple as that. so you go, okay,
I'll accept that. You can't really not accept. Soyou have to just go with it. I mean, was it a

(53:54):
couple of years ago, I did, Well, less than acouple of years ago, I did a, what they call a
Batman black and white, which is. It's. I can'tremember which Batman comic it is now. but they.
They kind of go in the back as a backup strip tocertain Batman comics. And it's what says what it
says on the tin, just black and white. So kind ofperfect for me. And, yeah, I've drawn Batman

(54:17):
before. He's one of the people I do sort of enjoydrawing. But it was, eight pages long, and when I
finished it, I thought, yep, that's, just about asmuch Batman as I'd like to.
You got. You got your fill of Batman in eightpages?
Yeah, I got it. That's it. I don't want to commitany more than that. I don't want to commit, you

(54:38):
know, a year, two years of my life. to say thatsounds awfully fatalistic, this. But, you know, I
will be 60 next year, and in the twilight of.
My career, you're still a very young man with along way to go. I have to ask you about the cosmic

(55:00):
rays. You're also a musician, and, you're adrummer. And I don't know if anybody's ever said
this to you before or not. Perhaps they have.
Perhaps you've thought it yourself, but I thinkthe fact that you're a drummer shows up in your
artwork.

Charlie Adlard (55:13):
Oh, okay.
Interesting because there are, there is a rhythmand a beat to the way that you lay out the imagery
and the way that things come out on a page. Ithas, I don't want to. It's not a drum beat like
thing, but there's a rhythm to it. And as adrummer you obviously have to have pretty good
rhythm. How long have you been drumming since youwere a kid?

(55:37):
I picked up proper drumsticks around about 16, 17.
A friend of mine when I was at school, I wasalways kind of envious of people that were in
bands at school. And well, he's my oldest friendactually. He played he was a multi
instrumentalist. I think he was learning violin atschool but he could play guitar and keyboards and

(56:01):
things as well. His family were really musical andhe just saw me just tapping away. I used to tap
away at my desk all the time, you know, to music.
And he said, well why don't you come to the schoolmusic buildings and we can see. Sit at the school
kit and see, see if you can hit, hit it right. AndI kind of sat down and I could instantly do ah, a

(56:26):
very basic beat. So within two weeks I was in aband with him. Just wow. Just doing. Funny enough,
it ties in with the creator own stuff. I've alwaysbeen in bands that do original material as well.
Even from that age we were, we were writing songs.
Do you think, do you think that your musicinfluences your drawing and your drawing

(56:47):
influences your music?
I think. Well if they do, it's very slight. I'venever noticed. I mean after just saying what I
just said about, you know, I've always been inoriginal bands and, and I'm, I'm here, sat here
advocating for you know, sort of creator ownedmaterial. I'm thinking ah, there's a similarity

(57:10):
there. You know something I'm interesting. I'venever been interested. Well I've done the old
cover span but it's always been very light andsort of temporary. You know, it's always been with
a goal for doing a gig or something like that andthen that's it. But yeah, interestingly, yeah,
it's kind of. Why would I just be interested inoriginal stuff as I'm also interested in you know,

(57:34):
original comic book material. So I mean beyondthat, I mean it's interesting. You say you've
noticed the, the rhythmical patterns to mystorytelling. I never noticed myself but I think
it's One, one thing, perhaps a, person that'sobviously a bit more, objective.
As soon as I saw in your bio that you were adrummer, it then became very obvious to me in the

(57:59):
drawings that you make that there is a rhythm anda pattern to it. Especially in the multi panel
stuff where you're working, some kind of actionout over multiple panels. I think that the rhythm,
the beats feel very natural and musical in the waythat you do it. So I think that that's evident

(58:19):
now. I might not have guessed that. I might nothave guessed, oh, he's a drummer. But once I knew
you were a drummer, then I could see it.

Charlie (58:27):
Right, I'll take that.
Well, you should. I'm curious. You've been acollaborator your entire career in both art and
in, music. What makes a good collaboration? Work?
Personalities. Oh, God. Look, I'm now coming upwith connections. Now you've said all this sort of

(58:49):
stuff. I'm now coming up with connections betweenmusic and comics now, you know. Yeah, both of them
are collaborations as well. Yeah, I can't doeither without somebody else involved.

Steve Cuden (59:02):
There you go.
Especially as a drummer. I mean, we are the mostreliant on other people than any other member of a
band. Yeah, that's, that's kind of interesting.
yeah, sorry, I forgot. What was the question?
the question is, what makes a good collaboration?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, justpersonalities. Well, funnily enough, going back to

(59:27):
playing music, I always used to think, you know,the best bands to be in as a collaborator were
where you share similar tastes in music. Butactually I've, been proven so wrong so many times
because the best bands I've been in are the oneswhere we've all gotten on as friends. The best.

(59:49):
Yeah, there's just been really good sort ofconnection with the, with the people rather than,
oh, we all like the same music. So therefore, youknow, let's just. Because at the same time, when
you're just in a band because you all like thesame music, what sort of music are you going to
produce? The same as the music you like, whichisn't that exciting. But if you're in a band with

(01:00:13):
a group of people you just enjoy the company of,but we've all got, you know, different tastes or
slightly different tastes or whatever, the actualsound that comes out is a lot more interesting
because it's a combination, of all these otherdifferent influences and it's probably the same
comics. You know, my Rob, interestingly, Robertand I share Very different tastes in our comic,

(01:00:41):
book influences. Now, I don't know whether that'sbecause of our age, because I'm over 10 years
older than he is, so he's come up through adifferent sort of, you know, bunch of comics than
I have, you know, and yet we have formed thisamazing 16 year partnership. And we certainly

(01:01:02):
didn't split up acrimoniously or anything likethat. We just finished the book because that's
what we wanted to do.
Right, sure.

Charlie Adlar (01:01:09):
At the beginning.

Steve Cuden (01:01:09):
Sure.
And, we still talk and who knows, we might worktogether again at some point in the future. That's
no big spoiler. I'm just, you know, let's not.

Ste (01:01:20):
The door. The door is open.
Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. We still chatoccasionally. It's not like we never talk. So,
yeah, there's kind of core values there, I thinkin, in a good, in a good collaboration. But at the
end of the day.
It needs to be frictionless in some way. Yes.

(01:01:40):
Oh, of course, yeah, yeah. But there again, a nicebit of friction always pays dividends, doesn't he?
That's the art of collaboration, surely.
Well, that's that old cliche that it takes a grainof sand irritating the, the oyster to make a
pearl. So there's, it has to be a little bit offriction, but not a lot of friction. Too much
friction means people are going to run away fromeach other, but a little bit sparks, you know,

(01:02:04):
innovation or creation or whatever. I think thatthat's, I think what you're saying is absolutely
right, that it's, it's people having to get along.
It's like a marriage. You were in a, in a workmarriage with Robert Kirkman for 16 years.
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Through all the trials andtribulations. Yeah. There were, I mean, there was
never a time where we were shouting at each other,but there was a couple of times, inevitably after

(01:02:29):
16 years where things got, I wouldn't even sayheated. But you know, there was a kind of slightly
aggravating situations here and there. just, justliterally one or two, but God, it's not bad for.
I don't know how anybody goes 16 years and not hasa disagreement of some kind.

Charlie Adlar (01:02:50):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve Cuden (01:02:51):
Yeah.
And probably at the end of it, I think somethingbetter emerged out, of the disagreement.
And there you go. There you go. Well, I have beenhaving so much fun for a little more than an hour
now talking to Charlie Adlard, about his work andthe process that he uses to create and the way
that he thinks. I think this has been absolutelyfantastic and we're going to wind the show down

(01:03:14):
just a little bit and I'm just wondering, you'vetold us a huge number of really great stories
along the way, but can you share with us a storythroughout your career that's either been weird,
quirky, offbeat, strange or just plain funny?
Well, I mean I work in the comics industry soshall we say the fans are unique in their own, in

(01:03:38):
their own little way and you know, God bless themfor it because I'm bloody unique as well in my own
little way as well. So you know, I completely comefrom their same perspective. So. Yeah, I know it
sounds crazy to say it but there's never been atime where I've like a real hair raising moment or

(01:03:58):
anything like that. I do recall quite recent lowermoment. I was in Helsinki doing a big show a while
back, literally earlier this year. And I was doingall my I'm a big Greenpeace supporter. So I was
sat with a person from Greenpeace because we weresort of doing everything for, for that

(01:04:22):
organization. So I had someone to talk tothroughout a rather empty show. And this one guy
came up to me and he had a load of stuff and hedidn't say a word. He just sort of spread it all
out in front of me very, very precisely. And Isort of looked at him and of course you know they

(01:04:45):
all speak brilliant English there but you know,you never 100% sure. So I sort of looked him and
went sign all these. Yes, like this. And he didn'tsay anything, he just sort of vaguely nodded so
dutifully signed everything and then he justsilently gathered it all up again. Took a, took a

(01:05:06):
long time, sort of go. And then just walked offand I just, I just turned to my palette Greenpeace
and we just went what the hell was that? And hewas just like whoa. He's just like. So. I mean

(01:05:26):
I've had numerous little encounters like thatwhere you just think wow, that was just really,
really. I mean there was a guy. I mean this is,this is quite endearing. There's a, I have a mega
fan in France, like a super fan. He literally buyseverything I do and, and when I say everything,

(01:05:48):
you know, not just comics, anything I will drawon, he will try and he'll either get or. Anyway,
first time I met him, I've met him a few timeswhen I've been in France and there's an amazing
show in, in France called angelam which is theBiggest show in France. And, and it's great
because it's got. It's literally pure comic books.

(01:06:09):
And mainly it's 90 bondes as well, but it attractsover a hundred thousand people. It's massive and
it's a small town and it's all about comic books.
Imagine that, you know. anyway, so last time I wasat Ongolem, this guy came up to me, I hadn't met
him before and the first thing he spreads out werefour coasters that I'd illustrated literally the

(01:06:33):
Christmas before. Because I. There's. There's alocal art center, that I do that I'm a patron of
here back in town. And every year they, I do aChristmas card or something like that for them to,
you know, it's obviously make a bit more money forthem because it's a charity. And last year I did
the Bridges of Shrewsbury because we're on this,we're on the. This river, it loops around town so

(01:06:58):
we've got quite a few bridges. So I did that andthey said to me, oh, we're gonna do a print, we'll
do some cards and we'll probably even try and dosome coasters. I was like, okay, cool. And they
said to me afterwards, oh, we sold out all, youknow, the coasters, you know, even there's been.
Even a couple have been bought by, you know,people, you know, not in the uk. It's like, oh

(01:07:20):
great. And of course what happens, I go all theway to Angela and the first thing, this guy sort
of spreads out these four coasters and I'm like,the Bridges of Shrewsbury. Where the hell did you
get these from?
You know.
And he, cause he, his English was a bit broken,but he said, oh, I got them from this website. I
was like, all right. And then he was in my queue.

(01:07:44):
Every day Ongulam's a four day show and you have aset number. You sort of sign at your publisher.
It's a slightly different to us shows and there'sa set number of people. Q He was there literally
every day with something as. Or as much as he wasallowed to bring every day. And since then I've,

(01:08:05):
you know, sort of know, known him M as, you know,my massive, massive French fan. But yeah, it's
just weird to see the weirdest stuff put in frontof you where you just don't expect. You think this
stuff you've got done years ago has just gone intothe ether. You never see it again, right? It rears
its ugly head and there.

(01:08:26):
It Is again, I had the, the great Privilege ofspending 80 minutes interviewing William Shatner
on stage in front of a huge crowd. And, you know,there's the prime example of fans that come out of
the woodwork at a guy forever. He doesn't know,doesn't remember, but what he did 50 years ago on
Star Trek. But they're all asking him questionsabout it. That's kind of what you're talking

(01:08:50):
about, where they're bringing stuff up that you'veprobably forgotten about. Yeah.
Oh, totally. It's always quite surprising. I mean,that was probably the biggest surprise. I mean,
loads of people come up and they've got an oldcomic and stuff, and you just sort of go home
seeing that for a while, you know, sort of thing.
But Bloody Ghost.
And you signed them, I assume, of course. Well,that, that's, Yeah, that's. The fans are. God

(01:09:17):
bless the fans, as you say, you really need thefans, so. All right, last question for you today,
Charlie. you've given out a pretty significantamount of advice throughout this whole show just
on how to think about the way to be in thisbusiness. but I'm wondering if you have a solid
piece of advice or tip that you like to give tothose who are starting out or maybe they're in a

(01:09:37):
little bit trying to get to that next level.
I think, I think the biggest bit of advice,especially in probably my industry, because it's
so, relatively small, is it's always good still togo to various events, conventions and things like
that. You know, you might not meet an editor orsomething like that, be my. To be in the very

(01:10:03):
presence of fellow creatives, you know, especiallyif you're only skilled in, like I am in, in the
one discipline, you know, you, you need a writerto work with, for instance, or vice versa. So, as
great as it is to have obviously social media andthe Internet and everything nowadays to, to

(01:10:23):
broaden your work and get it seen more, whichobviously I didn't. But I was very lucky when I
was breaking in that American comic books werehuge at the time, right? So all the major
companies in America could afford to send theireditors to the few conventions we had in the uk,

(01:10:45):
basically to cherry pick from creatives to comeand work for, you know, whether Marvel, DC or
whoever. And I saw the benefit of that, thebenefit of, you know, excuse the phrase, pressing
the flesh, basically, you know, because to makeeye contact, I think, with a potential employer,
collaborator is infinitely better than some randomemail, you know, social media post or whatever. It

(01:11:14):
might be because you get a proper idea of whetherthat person is interested or not. And, you know, I
do think a lot of people kind of ignore that andtry and make it solo, sat there solo in their
studio and whatever it is, and just hope and praythat somebody might notice their latest post or

(01:11:39):
whatever. And I'm. Don't get me wrong, I'm sureit's worked in the past for certain people. But
generally speaking, I, think you remember, youremember people obviously. Talent obviously is
quite useful as well. But if you, you meetsomebody that's personable and, talented, you will
remember them and you will probably go to more ofan effort, you know, as an editor or another

(01:12:03):
fellow creative to see them through, to achievewhat they want to do, rather than just some sort
of random guy on the Internet saying, would m youwant to read my script? Sort of thing, you know,
So I still think that's really important. Andyou've got to be good and you've got to be
committed. Commitment is. Sorry, I know it's areally obvious thing to say, but commitment, you

(01:12:27):
know, if you really want to do something likethis, you've got to, A, love it. And B, you don't
just draw for an hour a week. You know, you've gotto keep drawing, draw, draw, draw, draw. But you
will draw because you love drawing. So, you know,the one thing fuels the other. Hopefully. If one
of them isn't, perhaps not be in this industry andlook for something else.

(01:12:50):
I think that, that's two pieces of very wiseadvice and they're kind of linked a little bit, if
you think about it, because, the people who aredraw, draw, drawing sometimes become shy and
inward and don't want to go meet people at eventsor conventions or wherever. But you have to,
because that's the business of being in thebusiness. And, if you don't press the flesh and

(01:13:14):
meeting people in person, there's no substitutefor it. This conversation we're having is over the
Internet and it's lovely to see you, but it wouldbe very different were we in the same studio
together. It would be a different vibe. And so Ithink that's extremely wise advice. You've got to
keep doing your business of being a writer, anartist, painter, or whatever it is that you are.

(01:13:38):
But you also have to be able to get out and makethe business work. Absolutely.

Charlie Adlard (01:13:44):
Steve.
Well, I think that that's just truly tremendousadvice. Charlie Adlard I cannot thank you enough
for being on the show with me today. I can't thankyou enough for your time, your energy, and for all
this wonderful wisdom and for this tremendous artthat you've left the world. I thank you kindly.
Oh, thank you.

Steve Cuden (01:14:03):
Well.
My ego is full to the brim now. Thank you, Steve.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment, rating, orreview on whatever app or platform you're
listening to? Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is

(01:14:26):
available on all all major podcast apps andplatforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube,
Spotify, iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others.
Until next time, I'm Steve Cuden, and may all yourstories be unforgettable.