David Singer, Classical Clarinetist-Episode #383

The highly renowned classical clarinetist, David Singer, has performed many times at Carnegie Hall. He was a principal member and soloist with the Grammy Award-winning Orpheus Chamber Orchestra for 36 years and is featured on many of the group’s 70 CDs on Deutsche Grammophon. 

David began with Orpheus when the group was playing for free. He has played with many of the world’s greatest classical musicians, including legends like Yehudi Menuhin, Itzhak Perlman, Rudolf Serkin, and Yo-Yo Ma among others.

David has also performed at the White House with Music from Marlboro and The Lincoln Center Chamber Music Society for Presidents Carter and Clinton.  

David’s recently published memoir, From Cab Driver to Carnegie Hall, is more than a musician's autobiography; its inspiring narrative will resonate with anyone who has faced life's challenges head-on. It’s an ode to the power of never giving up while giving oneself every chance to succeed. 

I’ve read David’s book and found it to be a fascinating, uplifting reflection of a life in music that’s been full of challenges, triumphs, and the transformative power of music. If you enjoy stories about artists succeeding despite difficult obstacles, I highly urge you to read David’s entertaining memoir. 

Episode Transcript

Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat.
When you go out to play, you really want to putthe audience at ease. You want to make sure that
they're okay. So when you're, when you kind ofreverse it and think, oh my God, they're all
looking at me and what am I going to do? Your goalis to put the audience at ease, have them enjoy.
It's all about the music. It's all about the play.

(00:23):
It's all about what you're trying to express. Youknow, the music. That's what it's about.
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden. A podcast forthe creative mind. Storybeat explores how masters
of creativity develop and produce brilliant worksthat people everywhere love and admire. So join us

(00:46):
as we discover how talented creators find successin the worlds of imagination and entertainment.
Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh,

(01:08):
Pennsylvania. My guest today, the highly renownedclassical clarinetist David Singer has performed
many times at Carnegie Hall. He was a principalmember and soloist with the Grammy Award winning
Orpheus chamber orchestra for 36 years and isfeatured on many of the group's 70 CDs on Deutsche
Gramophone. David began with Orpheus when thegroup was playing for free. He's played with many

(01:33):
of the world's greatest classical musicians,including legends like Yehudi Menuhin, Itzhak
Perlman, Rudolph Serkin, and Yo Yo Ma, amongothers. David has also performed at the White
House with music from Marlboro and the LincolnCenter Chamber Music Society for Presidents Carter
and Clinton. David's recently published memoir,From Cab Driver to Carnegie hall is more than a

(01:55):
musician's autobiography. Its inspiring narrativewill resonate with anyone who's faced life's
challenges head on. It's an ode to the power ofnever giving up while giving oneself every chance
to succeed. I've read David's book and found it tobe a fascinating, uplifting reflection of a life
in music that's been full of challenges, triumphs,and the transformative power of music. If you

(02:20):
enjoy stories about artists succeeding despitedifficult obstacles, I highly urge you to read
David's entertaining memoir. So for all thosereasons and many more, I'm deeply honored to
welcome the exceptional clarinetist David Singerto story be today. David, welcome to the show.
Wow, what an introduction. I have something tolive up to now.

(02:41):
Yeah, well, I think you have already done that andit's well earned. So let's go back in time just a
little bit. How old were you when you Very firstbecame interested in music.
I've loved music for a long time, but mostly, backin the, well, late 50s, 60s, I was listening, you
know, to Elvis or to country western music. Laterin the mid-60s, I was interested. I loved the

(03:05):
Beatles. I would say that the most spectacularyear that I enjoyed with my family and really has
everything to do with how I became interested inmusic was the year that my dad took a sabbatical.
He was a teacher at the local high school, banddirector. And from 1961, August 1, 1961, August 1,

(03:27):
1962, we went to Europe for a whole year. It wasjust amazing. We were in New York, we were in
Paris, we were in Vienna. And when we got toVienna, he called up the principal clarinetist of
the Vienna Philharmonic, one of the greatorchestras. My boy plays the clarinet. Will you
teach him? And to my surprise, I couldn't believehe did that. I just had started the clarinet. Ah.

(03:49):
He took me as a student and within a few weeksProfessor Yetl invited me to sit with him in the
Vienna Philharmonic during opera season. You'revery familiar with Broadway and all of the shows
and things. Well, this in terms of opera was thetop of the top. I mean, the baseball analogy would

(04:09):
have been like being a bat boy with the New YorkYankees or Pittsburgh Pirates or whatever. So I'm
sitting in this great orchestra and it starts, theshow begins. I remember La Boheme or Tosca or any
of the. You're looking up at the costumes, thecolor, the sets, the lighting and the voices, the

(04:31):
music around me having these stories. A youngwoman and a, young man. They meet and they're both
poor and they're both cold and they get togetherand they have this, you know, relationship. I
mean, just all these different stories of love, ofsometimes lust, I mean to all kinds of things and

(04:52):
stories that completely related with, withhumanity, with, with, with me even as a, as a 12
year old. And so when I thought that one. Onceupon a time, classical music was written by, you
know, people hundreds of years ago and had noEuropeans. for that matter, being there, the music

(05:14):
surrounding me is all in Technicolor. And it wasjust something that I never forgot.
Well, you were seeing the show from a positionthat the audience never sees. Only the musicians
see it from the pit, right?

David Singer (05:27):
Absolutely.
Well, that gives you a perspective that's trulyunique. And at 12, I can imagine that was
extremely riveting to you watching it.
Absolutely. So that really made me feel like, wow,that's something all of the feelings, all of the
emotions, that's what I wanted to do. So I wantedto play and express emotions that the composer was

(05:50):
expressing. Those dots and dashes on the page meansomething. They come to life if you really look
into who wrote it, when did they write it, andwhat it means, and then to express them to an
audience that really,
It's all about passion, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. For anything but we do. Yeah, itis.
Because what you're doing is. Music is anexpression of emotion, as you just alluded to.

(06:15):
It's not just a technical thing.
No, absolutely.
Did you know at that time, as you were sittingthere, that you were likely to be, in music
business your whole life?
No, I had no. I mean, it was something thatattracted me. Baseball. I loved baseball. And then
music became the next, real passion. And so I didboth for a while. But, baseball didn't work out

(06:39):
because I was being the outfield playing little,league or senior league. And I would used to pray
that the ball wouldn't be hit to me, you know, orI didn't want to be up with the bases loaded. I
wasn't. You know, I told my dad and he said, nobaseball. Nah, not for you.
If you're not interested in the ball coming toyou, you have a problem if you want to be in
baseball.
Right.

(06:59):
So now that you've published your memoir, I'mcurious you. Do you also now think of yourself as
a writer?
No. I mean, really, honestly, the last Englishclass I took was in high school. I went to the
Curtis Institute of Music, which is a. Is a verywell known, highly respected school. But really,
when I, when you graduate, you have a, you get apiece of paper. At least when I went to school

(07:22):
there, they give you a piece of paper that saysyou can play, you. You can play an instrument.
Well, good luck making a living with that. Youknow, really, it's just crazy. And so the book
resonates with maybe with people who are having ahard time from cab driver to Carnegie Hall. Well,
I was in both worlds. I played for the Presidentof the United States and the same day went back to

(07:46):
New York to drive my cab.
We're going to talk about that in a bit because,we're going to cover the book in some depth. I'm
just fascinated as people figure out how. How theyget to where they eventually get. Because you're
sitting there as a child, you have no idea whetheryou're ever going to be playing in front of a
crowd or as a professional. That's not somethingthat's in your head. You're just barely trying to

(08:08):
figure out how to make the instrument work. Soalong the way, as you were proceeding, you
obviously have written this nice, healthyautobiography. Did you keep a journal along the
way? How did you remember all these stories?
It's a good question. Well, at my age 103, I mean,ah, long term memory is easier than what I had for

(08:31):
breakfast. You know, it's just one of thosethings. No, I kept. You know, I always had a date
book every year. You know, I mean, you always havea date book, you always have a schedule. And, I
have a stack of date books in my garage. I neverthrew them away. I also have correspondence from,
my parents. I wrote to my parents and they wouldwrite me back from, you know, my parents. I grew

(08:54):
up in la. I have, cards that I would write when Iwas any parts of the world or so. And then also,
you know, remember certain things. But those,Those are primarily correspondence and my m. Date
books.
So the date books then triggered memories.
Yeah, and it really started out as a kind of agame. You know, I'm sort of supposed to be

(09:17):
retired, but I'm still playing concerts and they,people ask me to play and lots of times I do
benefits for people. But what did I do in the late50s? What did I do in the 60s? I would just sort
of put down highlights. And again, it's like ajigsaw puzzle and then starting to kind of fill it
in. And they kind of took on a life of its own.

(09:39):
I think the listeners should pay attention to whatDavid's saying because it's great if you can keep
some kind of written memory of what you're doing,whether it's a date book or a journal or whatever
it might be. That's very helpful if you'rethinking to yourself, someday I may want to write
my story, my autobiography. Why the clarinet? Whatappealed to you early on and what appeals to you

(10:01):
still?
I had a crush on a girl. I was on the. I guess itwas about the third or fourth grade, and I just
would see her from afar. Amerie. Rocky.

Steve Cuden (10:12):
I see.
I remember her name. and she was going to enter atalent show. And so I came back to my house one
night and I told my dad, I'd like to enter atalent show. And he says, you know, very. In a
very supportive way. You don't know how to doanything. So he was, you know, as the band
director, he'd Bring home instruments and thecello and the trumpet and all this kind of stuff.

(10:36):
Nothing worked. But then he brought home theclarinet. So the clarinet was the easiest for me,
the most natural. So to answer your question,that's why I played the clarinet. It just seemed
to work. So I learned a song about one minute longand. And, entered the talent show, won, beat her,
and she wanted nothing to do with me after that.
But you learned you found your great love, whichwas the clarinet.

(11:00):
Well, you know, I didn't ever think of it thatway. But it's interesting because one of my
teachers at Curtis, the principal oboist in thePhiladelphia Orchestra, John de Lancie, he told me
that in all romantic relationships that you mighthave, the clarinet will never leave you.

(11:21):
So where did you get your training? Was it just atCurtis or was it elsewhere? Did Professor Yetl
also train you? How did you get training?
When I was 12, I learned, from him. I went back toLA, and then again my dad found out who was the
best, some of the best clarinet players in town.
Richard Lesser was one who ended up principal,clarinet in Israel, Israel Philharmonic. And then

(11:45):
Mitchell Lurie became. He was principalclarinetist in Chicago and then became the
principal clarinetist with Walt Disney. So he wason all those cartoons that was, you know, that
were always playing. You know, he taught me. Andso, I had the best, teachers.
Well, LA is filled with phenomenal musicians forthe studios. What for you makes a great piece of

(12:07):
music great? Why is something. Why is this pieceappeal to people more than others? What is it
about music that makes people, they like it forone reason or another? Do you know?
I think a lot of it is subjective. You know, youcould take a look at a painting and, somebody will
see something beautiful. Or, you know, there's apicture of, Edvard Munch, he Munch, however you

(12:30):
pronounce it, of a woman screaming on a bridge. Sosome people would look like this, right? And. And
others would say, wow, look at that, you know. Butto me it's interesting because when I took my
sabbatical, one of them from, Montclair StateUniversity, where I was a professor, I worked with
composers at SC actually, and UCLA and a few otherplaces. And I would play music that they had

(12:57):
written and they would ask me, so what do youthink? And so I told them that the composer, you
know, the composer wants to create. They want tocreate, but you don't do it in a vacuum. What you
write, you have to give us a reason to Want toplay your piece? Right? It's like, you have to
write a story that people want to do as a play. Imean, you know, you can be by yourself and

(13:22):
everything like that, but. And you want to comeup. You know, you think about Beethoven, and he
just wrote what he felt. Well, he was a genius. Imean, just incredible genius. Mozart, you know,
they didn't necessarily. Although Mozart was toldwhen he wrote his operas, the first one was not
particularly happy. And they said, listen, if youwant us to do your opera, it's got to be more

(13:45):
happy, it's got to be more entertaining. And so hedid that. But, I told them, why should I play this
piece? Where is the feeling? Where's the emotion?
What are you trying to express? That's all that'svery important. A composer told me that he wrote
his piece because he heard his. His son in thenext room playing video games, and he heard the

(14:10):
sounds of these video games, and he was, like, somoved that his son was there playing video games.
So he was writing boop, boop bop boop boop, bopbop, bop bop bop. You know, like whatever, Pac man
or whatever it is, that's fine, but it doesn't.
It's not going to inspire me to play the piece. Ilook for something, maybe a melody that. That's

(14:33):
going to be able to be expressive. Something that,makes me feel something. And it doesn't have to be
beautiful. It can be dissonant, it can be angry,it can be funny. But something move me, make me
feel something.
Surely you have played some pieces of musichundreds, if not thousands of times, and you've
done scales? Probably, I'm guessing hundreds, ifnot tens of thousands of times. do you ever get

(14:57):
bored playing any of anything that you're using topractice?
I mean, I play scales a lot, you know, but I do itin different ways. I mean, it's like a vocabulary,
you know, it has to be. You have to have controlof your hands, you have to have control of your
air. You have to have the feel of 3, 4 registersof sounds, and then you can play whatever. And

(15:22):
those are the things that need to be practiced.
Kind of oiled like the Tin Man. You have to reallybe able to be very facile with things. So I really
don't. I have to say, though, the art of. I mean,just writing something is also the book. I have an
audiobook version coming out, in the next fewmonths, and, doing it through Amazon, audible acx.

(15:49):
I think that's what they call it. That's veryexpressive too. How do you read, you know, your.
It's like a play, I guess, right? It's my script,and so it can really come to life. It's like
playing, except I don't have to worry about reedsor my instrument working or not. it's just your
voice, you know. So, it's very, very enjoyable. SoI like doing that.

(16:10):
So there's a warmth and a richness in your sound.
When I listen to the recordings of you playing,there's a kind of a warmth to it, which you do get
on certain clarinet. Clarinet players, but not allof them. Sometimes it's a little sharper.
What is it you do? Do you do anything to get thatwarm, rich tone?

(16:31):
I have it in my head, you know, the sound that youhave. I think the voice that you have has some
kind of relationship to what you already. What youhear. And so my biggest influence still, when I
was in Vienna, listening to the beautiful soundsthat they make in, Vienna, the clarinets, it's

(16:56):
really the reed and mouthpiece. I don't play theirkind of reed and mouthpiece because I couldn't.
It, didn't work for me. But that sound is alwaysin my head. And so I always try to, That's what I
hear, and that's what is pleasing to me. So that'swhat I do.
Who do you think is the greatest clarinetist ofall time?

(17:19):
Well, I mean, in terms of certainly popular music.
I mean, Benny Goodman. I mean, Benny Goodman.
Artie Shaw. Today, there are many who arefantastic. Sabina Meyer plays in Europe a lot.
There are many who I admire. And they, again,they're like singers. They're playing an

(17:39):
instrument. They're playing the clarinet, butyou're not really aware it's just a voice. It's a
voice that's incredibly flexible.
How interesting, because as a writer, you'retrying to get to where you're expressing your
voice in writing. And you did that, successfullyin your book, but. But that you were writing about
yourself. So it would be a little easier, I think,to get to your voice writing about yourself. But

(18:03):
if you're writing fiction or if you're writing ajournalism piece or something like that, it's a
little harder to develop what you call your voice.
Correct me if I'm wrong. You get your voice as aclarinetist by practicing a lot so that it becomes
second nature.
By practicing a lot and by listening, by havingthe experiences wherever you would find it. I for

(18:24):
me was going to the opera in Vienna when I was 20,I went back to Europe. They had this, and they
still do have what they call steeplatz, where youstand. And I didn't have any money. So you get
there very early, you pay your $2 or something andyou run up the stairs five flights and you're kind
of elbowing people. not really, but I mean, youget to a place where at the very top where they

(18:48):
have these metal bars and you are standing behind.
You tie your scarf there and that's where you'regoing to be standing. So in that hall, the, the
Musikverein. Not the Musikverein, the Staatsoper.
That's where I was 12 years old, sitting in thepit with the Vienna Philharmonic. Then as a 20
year old, I was way at the top, at the cheapestseat, standing for five, six hours, including

(19:11):
being, being in line. And then later, just in thelast few years, I went with my wife and we sat in
the best seats in the house, including, which isnot necessarily the best. we sat in the front row,
in the middle, right behind the conductor. So Ihad been from the pit to way at the top, to the

(19:33):
boxes or in one concert, we were right in thefront of the orchestra. There was the Vienna
Philharmonic right there. I could reach out andtouch them.
You're in that prime spot right where theconductor is. So you're getting all the sound
focused on you.
The sound and their kind of grunts and moans andalmost hit with sweat, you know. So it's kind of

(19:54):
neat.
All right, so I want to talk a little bit aboutOrpheus and chamber music. What constitutes a
chamber orchestra versus a symphony orchestra?
Chamber orchestra, like chamber music. Chambermusic is smaller for us. The obvious thing was
that we didn't have a conductor. And so, you know,you had, in the beginning, as you said. My book is

(20:17):
about overcoming obstacles. One of the, one ofthem. We started out playing for free as you, as
you, as you noted. And then, we got opportunitiesto play and very fast we became pretty well known.
And I think in the 80s, 90s that was, we were thetop chamber orchestra in the world.
Well, how did it get formed in the first place?
How does that happen? You have no conductor,you're working for free. Clearly you're not known

(20:42):
to start. How does that happen?
What happened was, someone named Julian Pfeiffer,a cellist, was at Juilliard and he had friends
who, he liked playing with. And not everyone was,wanted. First of all, to play necessarily in an
orchestra, that was the easiest. I mean, certainlynot easy to get a job in an orchestra. People

(21:03):
wanted musicians, wanted to have another way ofbeing able to make music. So I was part of
discussions not in the very beginning. 73 is whenit started, probably around 1977. We were still
meeting uptown at a restaurant called empireSzechuan on 95th and Broadway. Ah, over cold,

(21:26):
noodles. I remember, I remember that stuff. Andtalking about what kind of orchestra we think we
should have. Should we have a big orchestra? Butif we have a big orchestra, how are we going to do
without a conductor? People are going to besitting so far away from each other. How do we do
that? So also how do we do it? Are there going tobe many people who are going to be like soloists,

(21:47):
or are we going to have a few or of first, chairpeople and then the others will be kind of
followers? Are we going to do it that way? Howdoes it work? If you have many leaders, can we do
it with what they later call a flat managementstyle? Or what are we going to do? So we came to
the conclusion, at least in the winds and brass,that everyone should be kind of like a soloist.

(22:12):
And although that created problems too, becausewith most music there's a first clarinet and a
second clarinet, first oboe, second oboe, firsthorn, second horn. So who's going to play second?
Who's going to play first? And there's, you know,sometimes differences of opinion. So a lot of
things had to be worked out. We also listened toold recordings. What, what conductors do we really
like? And, and what, what kind of style were wegoing to play? So there was a lot of things going.

(22:37):
It could be a play, I guess. I mean it, you know,it's starting out. So we ended up making many CDs
for Deutsche Gramophone, which was at the time thetop classical recording, label in the whole world.
77 oh recordings. We were asked while we played inVietnam and all over the place, anyway, we were

(22:58):
asked to perform. There's a club in New York city,of CEOs of Fortune 500, companies, they're all
CEOs. They wanted us to show them how we make itwork. Flat management, where we have X number of
rehearsals, three or four rehearsals, and thenhave to play it in Carnegie Hall. How do you make

(23:19):
a world class product in a few rehearsals? So wewould have them come to our first rehearsal and it
was sort of chaotic and people were disagreeingand no, we should try it. Like, no, we should, you
know, conflict resolution and being a goodlistener. Everyone was experienced at playing

(23:39):
chamber music. So chamber music, one to a part, noconductor. So we were all used to playing without
a conductor. We also found that it was a good ideato have certain whoever was going to play the lead
parts for that particular piece. And it wouldchange all the time. But whoever's playing

(23:59):
principal parts would get together before theorchestra would get together and decide how fast
this should go. What kind of feeling are we tryingto create or recreate? who's going to give the cue
here, who's going to give the cue there? You know,that kind of thing. We would sort of make
decisions. And then when we brought it to thegroup, sometimes the, last chair violinist would

(24:22):
raise their hand. No, I don't agree. And we shoulddo, you know. But there was less and less of that
as time went on and the corps kind of led therehearsal. And it would go a little more. It was a
little more organized.
It's the ultimate act of collaboration. I can'timagine anything being more collaborative than a
group of people getting together and figuring outhow to start a piece on the same moment with no

(24:48):
conductor, nobody giving you a downbeat. How wouldyou start a piece? What would happen?
It depends on the piece. So I was asked by theThornton School of Music, at sc. Did you go to sc?

Steve Cu (25:01):
I went to SC and ucla.
That's right. Okay. So I was asked to teach, towork with the orchestra of the Thornton School and
a, la Orpheus. So in other words, the firstconcert of the year, the first half of the
program, they wanted to do it Orpheus style,without the conductor. So we were playing. They

(25:23):
were going to play a Rossini overture, whichbegins with a snare drum like that, really loud.
And so we got to the. You know, everyone's reallygood at sc. I mean, they're really talented,
bright, right? And so they're all ready to play.
And of course there's no conductor. And I'm justsitting there. I say, okay, play. And they didn't

(25:44):
know what to do. They had no idea what to do. So Isaid, well, who plays first? And they looked, the
string players, they didn't know. I mean, it was.
And then the way in the back, the, the, the, thesnare drum guy raised his hand. I play, I. I play.
And then, So, well, so who do you think shouldstart the piece? Who do you think should give the

(26:05):
cue for the first piece, for the first note whenit starts and the. And the concert Master says,
we're going to take the first cue, from the way inthe back for the snare to play. Yes, he has. In
that. This case, it was a male.

Steve Cuden (26:18):
He.
He has the. The solo right from the beginning. Sothen you hear this. I said, wait a second. What
dynamic are you supposed to be playing? And itsays, well, double forte, you know, loud. And I
said, well. And he says, I'm. I'm scared. I don'twant to play something by myself really loud. So
this was. This is how we started. And. Like aconversation sitting at a table. You know, you're

(26:45):
listening to someone. Someone speaks and they.
They have something that they did last night orwhatever. They. They're bringing something to the
attention, you know, and then. And they're. Oh,really? What? Then what happened? You know, and
then somebody else. Like a play. It's a play. It'swhat it is. And we each have our script. Our part
is our script. And. And so it's. That's the way weput it. You put a piece together. Who is.

(27:09):
So.
In romantic music, it could start with the bassoonand cl. It could then go to the flute, oboe. And
the strings have not as important a part. Then itcan be in the string. So it really moves. The
conversation moves all over. And so, you have toknow what you're doing to make it work.
Classical music is a conversation within theorchestra, isn't it?

(27:30):
It is a conversation. I try to relate things tostudents in terms of their lives. So when I was
working, I had a class in music appreciation. Iwould work about. One of. One of the sections of
the course was about opera. And I would show themfrom YouTube sometimes, a piece about Don
Giovanni, who thought he was God's gift to women.

(27:53):
I said, any of you women out there know anybodywho thinks he's God's gift? Everybody raised their
hand. And then there was Carmen, who was a verysexy, woman of the street, I guess you'd have to
say, who seduces a policeman to get her out ofjail, and he runs away with her, and then life
doesn't end up very well. That's kind of aconversation. I guess I'm trying to think that,

(28:16):
maybe, popular music, the Beatles have the mostbeautiful melodies sometimes, I guess in classical
music, it's definitely kind of a conversation, forsure.
Well, that's what I'm saying. The piecesthemselves are internally conversations musically.
I don't mean literal words. It's obviously music,but I think a really great piece of music. It

(28:40):
feels like, there's a conversation going on withinthe orchestra, and that one piece is responding to
the others, et cetera, et cetera. And it getsmoved, it gets louder, it gets angrier, it gets
softer, it gets sweeter, whatever that might be.
And it's, very much a conversation. so how do yougo from being in a chamber orchestra to going into

(29:01):
a quartet or a trio, which you've done a lot of,too. Or what are those differences?
Orpheus was like a chamber music group, a stringquartet on steroids, really. I mean, it was, 20 of
us playing as if we were four or five. That's whatthe way we were trying to make it work. You had to

(29:22):
have some ideas, but most important is that youhad to be a good listener and be willing to try
things that you didn't necessarily agree with.
That's what makes a great collaboration work, isthat you're willing to listen to what the others
are doing. If it's one other person that you'recollaborating with, or 100 people, if you're
listening to what the other people are saying andin their needs. And you can work your way through

(29:43):
it so that it's cooperative and collaborative.
That's what makes it work, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. now, when you have aconductor, it's a dictatorship. I guess there are
different ways of directing. I guess somedirectors give the actors more leeway and some
maybe less. But generally, it's all about, youknow, you got to follow the conductor. It's all

(30:08):
about, you know, you know, watch me, watch me, youknow? And, that's. That's what it's all about. So
you're more passive. Generally. Most of the peoplein the orchestra are more passive. When you don't
have a conductor, you're more actively involved.
So that's something that I think is wonderful. Icreated a program for very young children, which

(30:31):
has really saved my life, probably because what Iwas doing during the day regularly was selling
welding rod, climbing fences and running fromguard dogs, selling welding rod. So it gave the
kids the opportunity to create music. And so thatwas something that was sort of like chamber music.

(30:51):
So that's clearly in your book. We'll have aconversation now about, From Cab Driver to
Carnegie Hall. tell the listeners a little bitmore detail what the thrust of the book is, what
From Cab. Ah, Driver to Carnegie hall is about. Iknow it's your story, but what makes it unique, do
you think?
One of the things that I find, that people werekind of surprised about is that I Talk about my

(31:17):
failures, I talk about losses, I talk aboutheartbreak and what I did to overcome some of
those disappointments. Being in for me, a kind ofa dead end job. How, what did I do? How did I get
out of that? You know, how did I, how did I turnmy life into what it became? And, you know,

(31:39):
winning Grammy awards. I was a full professor at auniversity. I didn't get a bachelor's degree, but
I was able because of my, the group that I was inand people that I was playing with and recording
with, they wanted me, on their faculty. And so Ihad tenure at a corner office. I could see New
York City from my office like a dream. When I wasthinking of my first teaching job, going, catching

(32:03):
a bus, 20 degrees, waiting for a bus for an houron a street corner. When I was like 18, taking a
bus, walking literally a mile to the school. OnceI got to Cinnaminson, New Jersey and the kids, if
they didn't show up, I didn't get paid. I gotnothing. And so that was my first teaching job to
being a tenured full professor and all of this. Soit's, been quite a journey. But I thought it would

(32:27):
be helpful for people to learn that especiallyartist biographies or athletes, they don't talk
about when they lost too much. They just don't.
People, I don't know, people, on a podcast,they're not going to talk so much about having to
do certain things in their lives that they may notnecessarily. Especially at the time, I didn't want

(32:48):
anybody to see me driving a cab. You know, all ofthat stuff.
You needed to earn a living, right?
You got to make a living. That's right,absolutely.
Well, you know, I have taught many times that thethings that you're reading in the trade magazines,
the trade papers, and things that are industryspecific, you're usually reading about things that

(33:09):
have succeeded or are on their way to success, orthey have been created even if they fail,
ultimately they actually got funded, et cetera, etcetera. You're reading about the successes. What
you're not reading about are the dozens and dozensand dozens of failures where somebody's tried to
get a play, a movie, a concert, an opera,whatever, on and never got there. You're not

(33:31):
reading about that. You're only reading about thethings that are happening or they have happened.
Right, that's exactly, exactly right. How, how doyou recover from something like that? And, and,
one of the things was kind of an acronym. the wordis score S C O R E. It helps me. It's a creative
visualization, a positive visualization that youdo before maybe a job interview, before a speech,

(33:57):
before whatever, a concert, a play, whatever you.
When you're going to do something that's going tobe stressful, there are ways to prepare and so
score. represents. S has to do with selfdiscipline. do the work. You know, if it's a. If
it's a part that's going to be hard to memorize,do the work. You know that that's very important

(34:18):
practice. if you're going to do an interview, youknow, find out about the company, all that kind of
stuff. That's very important. Do the work. Selfdiscipline. But that's the only physical stuff
with this acronym. So C has to do withconcentration. Concentrate on sending all negative

(34:39):
energy away. I'm having a bad hair day. Whateverit is. I don't feel great. I'm overweight,
whatever. It's amazing when you really think aboutnegative thoughts, they're there. And so we
recognize them and throw them away because theydon't do you any good. O has to do with optimism.
Think of, and this is what you can do before,like, you're going to sleep. you're just lying in

(35:03):
your bed and you're thinking a lot. So. Oh, youclose your eyes. Oh. Has to do with optimism.
Think about when you've been successful. Thinkabout what happened, how did you feel? And this is
also going to be a success for you. Oh, so that's,optimism. S C O R. relaxation from fear. Fear
won't help you. In fact, it can hurt you. Fear is,you know, people, before they go out to do

(35:30):
something, can be frightened and they have thisfear. They can't explain exactly what it is. I'm
going to be failure. no, it's bad. You want tothrow it away because there's no place for that.
So fear, you have to recognize not only will itnot help you, it will hurt you. So relaxation from

(35:52):
fear. and E, enjoyment. Love what you do. Findsomething that you really like about whatever it
is that you're doing. You know that whatever it isthat you're presenting, whatever it is that you,
that you are, going to talk about. So it relatesto everyone with those 5s e o r E that has helped

(36:17):
me a lot, attain much more than I ever thought Iwas going to be able to attain. Playing solo, very
difficult for me. Well, I played solo with reallygreat players behind me and, you know, and
performed with with some of the greatestmusicians. You can almost name anybody who's gone
played in the United States and I probably haveplayed with them and it certainly helped me a lot.

(36:41):
So I think it, so that's something else that Ithink people can get from the book.
So the great mythologist Joseph Campbell used tofamously say, follow your bliss and the money will
follow.
not so much money, but I'm doing fine.
You know, but that's the same concept of, youknow, make do something that makes you happy that

(37:01):
you want to do, not something that you are told todo or you have to do. It's something that you are
passionate about. Again where there's that wordpassion, which is a very important word. You know,
you write very personally in the book about yourpersonal experiences in your life and it's very
moving and it's, it's you know, harrowing. Some ofit's quite harrowing. Especially as a, as a kid

(37:22):
you were in difficult times. You write about yourfather having suffered PTSD in World War II and
that he had rages. And I'm just curious, how didyou deal with that in your life? And how do you
think that that then motivated you to become theperson that you are? How did you handle that?

(37:43):
First of all, I drove me to make, to. I couldn'tfail. I had to. I didn't have a safety net,
financially and I didn't have really a safety net,at least for my parents. Psychologically there was
no looking back. And so whatever I did, I had tomake sure that I was going to be able to take care

(38:06):
of myself. Fear of failure, I mean that's, I guessthat's common. It's a great motivator, you know.
And how, how do you recover from being, you know,having, experiencing child abuse and that's, it's
not easy to talk about but that's just, that wasmy situation. And, and so with some psychological

(38:27):
help and that kind of thing, it, they had theirown lives and writing the book also helped me
understand that they had their traumas in theirlives and growing up. And because I go back in
time with, with my dad who lived in Eastern Europewith his parents, but then his dad came to the

(38:48):
United States way before he sent for the rest ofthe family. 1933, which is when Hitler came to
power in Germany and it wasn't long after thatwhere if in the book I have a picture of my
extended family with my dad as basically a 10 yearold kid With a kind of a hula hoop. It was a

(39:09):
strange round thing that I guess one of his toys.
He was a stuttering little boy clutching onto hisparents skirts. And then 10 years later he was
awarded a bronze star at the Battle of the Bulge.
He was a fierce warrior and you know, soldier. Sohe had his demons and my mom had hers. Six months

(39:32):
old, they went from Kyiv to they immigrated to theUnited States, ran into the depression, had no
job, had no money. I mean it was just terrible,terrible things. And I don't know about the abuse
maybe that they suffered. So they did the bestthey could. They did kind of apologize to me for

(39:52):
what happened. You know, you, there's a healingyou don't forget, but it's you, you can sort of
forgive in a way.
We are as humans an amalgam of all of ourexperiences. We are one experience, lead to the
next, etc. Etc. And so I, I am curious, as aperformer, do you think that there's something

(40:13):
from that, that era of your life that motivatesyou on stage to perform in a certain way, to be a
better musician, to play things a certain way? Doyou think that that's had an impact on you?
It's really interesting question. Well, whatever Iwas going to do, I wanted to just do very well.
And I thought that, I thought it was, there was a,there was an opportunity to make people feel, to

(40:40):
help people feel better. Can, you know, so musicwas something that I could do. So as long as I
could really get involved with the music. I did aplay, with Stockard Channing. She was, you know,
she was, she, you know, she played Roxy in Greeceand six, Six Degrees of Separation. she did

(41:04):
something, oh, she was in West Wing, she was thewife of the president. We did this play called the
lady and the Clarinet. Well, you know, you knowwhich role I played, I was the only one on stage
with her. And it went for an hour and a half orsomething. And the play was interesting. You know,
you'd be interested. it was all about the pastloves of her life. It was it was about three or

(41:24):
four different relationships. And I would playmusic of the time in the background and they would
dance and then they would go through their, theirthing that whatever happened with the beauty and
the love and then the going away and then arguingand then the man would leave and then she'd come
to me. And so there was this communication, therewas, there was these, these different things. So

(41:48):
it was the End of the play. By the end of theplay, I've been with her the whole time. She ends
up in love with me. So that was. That was kind ofinteresting. it inspires me to want to help the
audience feel something. And so that's veryimportant to me.
Did that help you during those struggling yearswhere you were a welding salesman for a while? You

(42:14):
also, as the title of your book says, you were acab driver in New York, and you went from cab
driver to Carnegie hall in the same day,basically. Right?
That's right. That's exactly right.
And so how did you overcome that psychologicallyto do your best, despite being under, I would
call, rather challenging circumstances?

(42:35):
I don't know. I had something inside of me. Thisjust. I just felt like I was destined for
something better. Not that there's anything wrongwith driving a cab. I mean, it's a. It could be a
great job.
No, not. Of course not. But you didn't set out tobe a cab driver. You set out to play clarinet and
play it at a high level. And so being a cab driveris challenging to someone who's. Whose goal, is to

(42:58):
be a clarinetist.
I looked at it as an opportunity to make a livingand be able to stay in the game. Stay in the game?
Sort of. I mean, I wasn't working very much, interms of music, but, to be around long enough and
then play a recital in the Metropolitan Museum andthen got a great New York Times review. And things

(43:21):
then took off for me, too. But, yeah, I didn'tlook at it as, oh, poor me. I had a family, I had
a daughter, and I had to make money. And so, mygrandfather, he was a painter. And so he was a
really. He was actually a professor. He was ahighly learned man in Russia. He told people asked

(43:43):
him what he did for a living, and he said, I'm apainter. You know, like he was, you know, Monet or
something. I'm a painter. He painted prisons andhouses. That's what he did. And he was okay. I
mean, it says that's what he did, you know, sothere's no time to feel, sorry for yourself. You
got to go out there and do it.

(44:04):
I think the listeners should really pay attentionto that, particularly that you do what you need to
do in order to get to where you're going. Andsometimes that means you're doing something that
you really didn't set out to do. It may not beyour passion at all, but you sometimes have to do
those things. I Myself have been through longperiods of time where I've needed to work on other
things to pay the bills. And that's just the waythat works. But if you have it in your gut and

(44:28):
your soul that you're going to be in, the businessthat you want to be in, whatever that is, then you
keep doing what you're practicing to do.
One thing that really helped me was, I read a bookcalled what color is your parachute? by Bowles,
Richard and Bowles or something, which really wasa, series of games that, you would fill out the

(44:50):
answers to. And then the book based on youranswers would say to you, this is the area that
you express the most passion for. And for me, itwas music and young people. And so I developed a
music program. My daughter was in nursery schoolat the time. For actively getting the kids

(45:14):
actively involved with making up lyrics, to songs,making up dances based on their natural movements,
what they like to do. There are things that youcan do. It's not of my creation. It was a guy
named Carl ORFF in the 19th century, 1920s, whohad this thing called Orff Schulferk. He had a
whole program based on giving children theopportunity to become actively involved with music

(45:40):
as opposed to being taught another Kumbaya song orwhatever. And they're told how to sing the song,
they're told the lyrics, and they have to justmirror what they're taught. So this was a
different kind of pro. So through that, thatenabled me to get out of my welding job and
ultimately paved the way for my daughter and me togo back to New York.

(46:03):
I think I need to ask you an important questionabout the, clarinet itself. You talk for quite a
bit in the book about reeds. How important arereeds? Why are reeds important? What is it that
they do for you? Why do you need them to be acertain way?
So the reed, it's where the sound comes from. It'sreally where the sound, the reed vibrating against

(46:29):
the mouthpiece is. There has to be a vibration,right? So when we speak or when we sing, we go,
oh, if we feel our throat, we feeling our, youknow, vocal cords vibrate. There's a vibration,
right? Any string instrument, brass, it's thelips. So for the clarinet and the oboe and the

(46:50):
saxophone and all of that, the reed is vibratingsometimes against. If it's a double reed, like the
oboe and bassoon, they vibrate against each other.
For the clarinet, the reed vibrates against themouthpiece. The tip of the reed vibrates against
the mouthpiece. And that's what makes the soundmore of. The reed vibrates and then you have a
more deep sound. And that's what I love so much.

(47:13):
If you want to play jazz, you have a very openmouthpiece where you can play with a lot of
vibrato and do a lot of glisses and that kind ofstuff. But the reed and the mouthpiece, if you
have a good read and mouthpiece, you can soundgreat. Well, at least very, very good on a plastic
clarinet. You don't even need an expensiveclarinet, really. If you're a professional, you
want a good clarinet. But the reed in themouthpiece is what makes the sound.

(47:37):
I find that fascinating. I don't play anyinstruments and I'm always interested in what,
musicians, what they have in their bag of tricks,what they look at, how they think. I think that
that's very interesting, that the reed is more orless everything to make the sound the way it is.

David (47:54):
Yeah, it is, absolutely.
So I have to ask you, you know, the old joke is,right, how do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice.
Right? That's the old joke. And clearly you'vedone that. What is it like to play in Carnegie
Hall?
Well, you know, the history. I mean, you gobackstage before the concert, before your first

(48:15):
concert or whatever, and you see Teddy Roosevelt,giving a speech on the stage of Carnegie hall, or,
the Beatles performing in Carnegie hall, or BennyGoodman or, you know, the history is there
actually in Pittsburgh, you have a Carnegie Hall.
We do have. We have. We have two of them actually.
But the place where most people would wind upplaying, where the symphony plays here, is a Hines

(48:38):
Hall. But there are two different Carnegie Hallshere in Pittsburgh.
We played it at one of them. So anyway, what's itlike to play in this Carnegie Hall? You know, it's
just I can't get away from the history the stage.
You look at the marks on the stage and where didthat come from? And so you're surrounded by, this

(48:58):
history. And so I wonder what my sound is going tosound like in Carnegie Hall. There are other
stages that I think maybe even be there. Maybethere are greater halls, maybe just the sound
Symphony, hall in Boston. You can literallywhisper like this. And all, ah, the way back you

(49:21):
can hear everything someone says, whispering.
But were you intimidated the first time you wentto play in Carnegie Hall?
A little bit. It was very big and our group wasvery small. I mean, you know, orchestras of 100,
120 play there, and we were like 20 musicians atfirst it looked very huge. And so how is this

(49:44):
going to work? Will we all have to play louder? Dowe have to change the way we play? How's that
going to work? When I played with Menu in Carnegiehall, that was something because we walked. I
wasn't just walking to my seat in the back of agroup. I was walking front and center, on the
stage. And it was a long walk. It was really along walk. I mean it's a like walking across the

(50:08):
street from where you live. I mean it's reallylong. And so that was weird. That was really. And
you want to make sure that, yeah, you're lookingaround, but you have to also, you have to make
sure that you're, you know, you're not going totrip and make a fool of yourself.
Well, yeah, you're standing, you're walking.
That's what people don't understand aboutperformers. Just the act of walking can be

(50:29):
intimidating because everybody's looking at you.
And we're not used to having everybody look at uswhen we walk. But suddenly the focus is on you and
then you're going to play. But that's a wholeother story, because that, that you've hopefully
practiced your way up to a point where it becomesa second nature thing for you. Just the, that's
what I was curious about. The factor of going intothis one of the most famous halls in the world and

(50:53):
you know, you're going to be on stage playing.
It's got to be a little bit, get your attention alittle bit.
It's sure, absolutely. It's intimidating. some ofthe most tense moments in Orpheus, happened during
a dress rehearsal. We used to rehearse in themorning of our concert in Carnegie Hall. So some

(51:14):
of the biggest fights in the orchestra about howwe were going to play something after our
rehearsals. And you know, the last one, no, it's,I really think it should be like this and
whatever. And you know, and then somebody thought,why don't we have our. Some of the kids were
having young children by that time, like toddlers.

(51:35):
And so why don't we bring our children to the halland they can kind of crawl between the players.
And so if somebody gets very upset and they lookat this 3 year old looking up at them drooling,
you know, it's a little more context, you know,it's you know, just so that, that helped a little
bit.
But it does, it puts everything into a context,doesn't it? It, because it's not that, that's not

(51:56):
really what life is all about. It's not about onething or the other. It's about all these things.
And while it's. It's not life and death. Althoughfor a performer who, in the beginning, people
didn't know us, so it was kind of life and death.
But, but you have to kind of, you have to notthink of that again. You know, relaxation from

(52:17):
fear and all that stuff.
It's, every time you performed there was. If youhad screwed up once, that would be forgiven. But
if you screwed up twice, three or four times andthe orchestra was bad and not together, eventually
you wouldn't be playing together.
Right? Well, that's absolutely true. somebody toldme that when you go out to play, you really want

(52:40):
to put the audience at ease. You want to make surethat they're okay. So when you kind of reverse it
and think, oh, my God, they're all looking at meand what am I going to do? No, you, you, you go
out and your, your goal is to put the audience atease, have them enjoy. And also, of course, of

(53:01):
course. And that's what I also learned fromStalker Channing. You. It's all about the music.
It's all about the play. It's all about whatyou're trying to express. That's the most
important thing. The other stuff is extraneous,what they think of me or what am I going to get a
review, I had a fight with my wife or whatever.
That's all finished. Don't think about that then.

(53:22):
But, you know, the music, that's what it's about.
I think that's absolutely fabulous. Well, I havebeen having just an incredibly wonderful
conversation with David Singer, not only about hislife and career, but about his book, as well. And
we're going to wind the show down a little bit.
And I'm wondering, in all of your many years ofexperiences, can you share with us a story that's

(53:44):
either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or maybejust plain funny?
This was. This took place in my second year atCurtis. I was having. I just really did not like
the city of Philadelphia at the time. I didn'twant to be there. My, My clarinet. I didn't have
any good reads to play. I was practicing. I had mytwo clarinets out there, and the other clarinet

(54:09):
was. Was sort of on a clarinet stand. And I wasreally wondering, what should I do with my life?
Is this really what I want to do? Suddenly, bang,bang, bang at the door. It was the fire marshal,
and he said, get out. There's a fire. Fire. And soI thought about this. I thought about it really
hard. And I took my clarinet and I put it, both ofthem, on the floor of my apartment. And then I ran

(54:35):
out, outside, because there was a fire that wasstarting, and they couldn't control it right then.
And I went to the other side of town, to myfriend's house, just to hang out for a few hours
until it was. So I figured, okay, if they burn myclariness or if they're gone, that's God saying to

(54:58):
me that I should do something else because Icouldn't afford to have, you know, purchased
another. Another. so I came back, and I couldsmell the strain, and I could see the black smoke
and broken glass and everything. So I walk up thestairs, to the brownstone, went down the hallway,
and I opened the door, and there they were. Theclarinets were there. Untouched, unharmed.

(55:23):
Nothing. No problem. There was black smoke onevery. But they were fine. Nothing wrong. So I
kept going.
That was the sign that didn't burn up. So you gotto keep going forward.

David Singer (55:35):
Well, that's it.
All right, so last question for you today. David,you've given us massive amounts of advice
throughout this whole show. Lots of great stuff tochew on for people that are, musicians or they
want to be musicians and so on. I'm justwondering, do you have a single solid piece of
advice or a tip that you like to give to those whoare starting out in the business? If they come up

(55:59):
to you and say, how do I do? How do I get in? Whatdo you tell people?
So I used to tell my daughter, if you're reallytired and you're sleeping and it's terrible
weather outside, what is going to inspire you toget out of bed and get dressed and go to work?

(56:20):
What is it going to. What would that do? So inother words, what you're really passionate about,
what you really love, is what you should do do.
That's what you should do. Now, Mark Cuban, verysuccessful businessman, said, no, that's not.
That's not that completely what. Anything that youdo well, you're gonna like. Anything you. You do

(56:43):
well, you're gonna like. So find something thatyou. That you think you have an affinity for, that
you think you might be good at, that you reallylove and do that. I mean, you know, so there has
to be some kind of a reasoning. I'm not going to.
I would like to be a baseball player, but notreally. It's not going to Be good for me. But, you

(57:04):
know, if you choose something that you, that youreally like, that you think you can be good at, I
guess that's the best advice. Now, if you're inthe business, if you're doing something, I think
that the score, that what I mapped out will reallyhelp you live the best life. I also, and I'm not

(57:24):
a. Certainly not a fanatic about it, but, I havebeen helped in times when I really didn't know
what I should be doing with my life, or when I wasdriving a cab and there was a gun being held to my
head, or, just different times when I had thiswonderful relationship of years, for years. And,

(57:48):
and then we moved to Europe and she became anopera singer, and I wasn't able to work. What was
I supposed to do? So when I come to these crisismoments, I would pray. I mean, I would really, I
would just. Not just for myself, but how can I.
Well, what can I do to, give something in thisworld? And what am I supposed to do? Please, you

(58:12):
know, help me find what I'm supposed to do. Andwhen I had to fight for custody of my daughter.
And I'm not saying that you have to win all thetime, and I'm sure God has many more things to do
than to listen to me. I don't know. It is in mylife. It has made a difference. It really has.
Well, I think that that's what's helped you alongthe road, and I think that that's great advice for

(58:35):
anybody that's seeking, something to help themfind their way. And if that's what it is, that's
what it is. So I think that's really excellentadvice. And anyone who is trying to get in the
business, they might need a little prayer alongthe way. So, you know, it's not all about skill.
Some of it's a little bit luck, some of it's alittle bit, you know, perseverance with, you know,

(58:59):
allowing others to help you along the way. Allthose things are part of that process. David
Singer, can't thank you enough for your time, yourenergy, and your wisdom. And those of you that
want to. That want to read about David's life, twothings, you can find it through singerclarinet.com
Amazon.com and also the book is called From CabDriver to Carnegie hall by David Singer. David, I

(59:21):
thank you kindly for being on the show with metoday.
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Thankyou.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment, rating, orreview on whatever app or platform you're
listening to? Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is

(59:42):
available on all major podcast apps and platforms,including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify,
iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until nexttime, I'm Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be
unforgettable.