Jimmy Ryan, Musician-Composer-Producer-Author-Session-2-Episode #387

Episode Transcript

Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat.

(00:02):
I, wasn't trying to be Buddy Holly or ElvisPresley or anything like that, but I felt that I
needed to learn exactly what they were doing as atleast a platform to start to have the dexterity to
create within those things. And in those days wewere all cover bands. Even the Beatles were cover
bands. The only reason they started writing, Paultells this story, says the only reason they

(00:22):
started writing is because they would play at gigswhere other bands were playing and the other bands
would be doing the same songs they were doing. Andthe only way to get out of that was to write their
own songs. Other otherwise they never would havestarted either.
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden, a podcast forthe creative mind. Storybeat explores how masters

(00:42):
of creativity develop and produce brilliant worksthat people everywhere love and admire. So join us
as we discover how talented creators find successin the worlds of imagination and entertainment.
Here now is your host, Steve Cuden

(01:05):
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the Steel City Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My guest today, Jimmy Ryan, is backfor his second visit to this podcast. Jimmy's best
known as a guitarist, composer, producer, arrangerand author with a career spanning almost six
decades and continuing to this day. He recentlyperformed with triple Grammy winner Olivia Rodrigo

(01:30):
at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame inductionceremony celebrating his longtime friend and
former bandmate Carly Simon as she was made amember of the hall of fame. Jimmy was Carly's
guitarist for 21 years. He was a soloist on, thetheme song from Working Girl, Let the River Run,
which won a Golden Globes Award, a Grammy and anOscar. He was the bassist and a vocalist on

(01:54):
Anticipation, as well as the guitarist and soloiston the hit you're so Vain, which holds a place in
The Billboard top 100 songs, of all time. As wellas working alongside Carly Simon, Jimmy has
recorded with Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Elton John,James Taylor, the Doors, Tommy James, Jimmy Webb,

(02:15):
Andy Williams, Rod Stewart, Kennedy and manyothers. In fact, he's recorded with seven Rock and
Roll hall of Fame inductees. Jimmy's written twocritically acclaimed five star rated books. The
Superstar Chronicles tales of life among rockroyalty and California Dreaming and primal gurus
and psychics and shrinks. Oh my. I've read both ofJimmy's excellent books. We chatted about the

(02:40):
Superstar Chronicles during his first time onStory Beat. Today we will delve a bit into
California Dreaming and Primal Screaming, whichdeals more with Jimmy's approach to life
psychologically and spiritually than it does withhis great music career. In 2023, Jimmy received
the lifetime achievement award from the Iowa Rockand Roll Music association as he was inducted into

(03:02):
their hall of fame. Please be sure to stick aroundat the end of the show because Jimmy has
generously lent us an excellent unreleased songthat he wrote, produced, and on which he played
all the instruments, called why Can't We Just BeFriends? Featuring the vocals of Dana Colitri. So
for all those reasons and many more, I'm trulydelighted to have the extraordinarily talented

(03:25):
guitarist, writer, and producer Jimmy Ryan join metoday for his second time on the show. Jimmy,
welcome back to Story Beat
My head's twice the size it was when I sat down.
Thank you for all of that.
Will you be able to get through the door? That'sthe question.
Oh, God, I don't know. I don't know. It's a widedoor. I think I'm okay.
Well, since we last spoke a couple of years ago,you published California Dreaming and Primal

(03:51):
Screaming, which we'll get into in much more depthshortly. But first, I'm wondering if you've
continued to work in the world of music. And ifso, doing what. What have you been up to?
Well, I'm right in the middle of scoring, a filmthat, although it's not a dramatic film, it's more
of a documentary. It's an important film and thethrill of my life. It is the story of the Vera C.

(04:19):
Rubin Observatory and telescope, the largesttelescope on the planet in Chile. And PBS picked
me to write the music for it. I had worked withthem before. I wrote for nova, that is, I worked
with Neil Degrasse Tyson on, the Pluto Files,which was the story of Pluto that, when I believe

(04:39):
it was Neil who decided Pluto was not a planet, itwas kind of just a dirt ball on the outer. There,
among the other rocks in the outer solar system.
Anyway, so this was kind of a callback, and I wasthrilled to do it. I'm just having a blast. You
just cannot imagine how many galaxies and starsthere are out there. When you see one of the
photographs this thing takes, they said it wouldtake 1500 high def TVs to display in full color in

(05:08):
full size. One photo. Wow, 1500 TVs. That's. It'ssomething like, I think, 3.6 billion pixels.
And it shows a huge amount of the universe,doesn't it? Compared to old photographs, Every
night they.
Photo, you know, every 10 days, they photographthe entire visible universe.

Steve Cuden (05:29):
That's wild.
And, I take a look at These pictures, and you justsee them in a kind of average size, and then you
start zooming in, and you can't zoom enough farenough in to make them start blurring. And you see
more and more, and you're just like, oh, my God,there's no space there. There's just nothing but
planets and stars. In fact, I saw two galaxiesside by side and the comment, aren't they going to

(05:53):
collide? And they said, no. The one on the rightis 15 light years behind the one in the
foreground. But they look like they're right nextto each other because you don'. You don't really
get the depth. But anyway, so you asked if I wasdoing that, and I'm touring with my band
Commotion.
Nice.
I had a jam band here just to keep playing guitar,because I love playing guitar with some really

(06:15):
fantastic musicians. And one night, our leadsinger, Steve McLean, just started singing like
John Fogarty. And we were all like, what the.
Where did that come from? And he's unbelievablygood at it. So good that people see our. Our demo.
We.
We have a, you know, shot with five cameras, areal publicity, and then. Oh, my God, he sounds

(06:35):
just like Fody. No, he doesn't. He doesn't soundanything like Fody. What he sounds is really good.
And when you hear this song sung by a really,really good singer, you just go there. So we get
standing ovations. Every concert we're sellingout, every place we play, we're playing big
theaters, and it's a blast. So scoring a film andtouring at the same time.

(06:57):
So you're very busy musically then?
Absolutely. Haven't rested a minute.
So I have to ask you. You bring up Neil DeGrasseTyson. I'm a giant fan of his. did you get to
actually work with him?
Not with him, but I went to the after party andhung out with him.
Oh, that's neat.
Composers get the film when it's kind of done.
I've heard that Hans Zimmer. People like thatoften sit down with a film producer and ask them

(07:18):
what the film's about, and then they'll go backand just compose something even without seeing any
film. this one, I got the finished product.
So let me ask you, then, when you get thatfootage, what is the first thing that you do? What
do you think about panic?
I panic. The greatest fear that I certainly have,and I imagine a lot of composers have, is the

(07:38):
blank screen.
Sure. It's just like the blank screen when you'reA writer. What are you going to do?
Absolutely. So I just sit there and I look at it.
I go, oh my God, what is. And I always have thefear that I'm going to come up with an idea that
they're going to hate, that it's not going towork. And then they send me temporary music stuff
that they put on there. I go, what is that?
That's awful.
That doesn't work at all. And then some thingsthat do work, but even. They even put pieces of

(08:02):
min that I did for the plutophiles against it. AndI didn't think it worked at all. I just took a
shot and started writing what I thought worked.
I'm, just past the halfway point now, and not asingle cue has been turned down. So they're,
they're really enjoying it and they're really justgiving me free rein, which is great.
So just so you know, and so the listeners know,it's not uncommon for editors to put temp music in

(08:24):
just to give them a rhythm.
Yeah, well, they like to edit to something theydon't. Yeah, they like to feel beats and stuff
like that. So I'll sometimes match the tempo ofthe tent temporary piece, but I never, like, copy
the temporary piece because it's usually stockmusic. It's not usually real high quality stuff. I
mean, they're not grabbing a piece from Gladiatorand throwing it against the thing.

(08:46):
All right, so I need to ask, as you have aged and,you're no longer 20, neither am I for that matter.
does music, playing music ever become morechallenging for you because of your age?
No, what becomes challenging is finding time topractice. I found with this, this Credence Band
Commotion that I'm working on. If you stray even alittle bit away from the way John Fogarty plays or

(09:12):
how the songs are constructed, they don't soundright. So I have to constantly practice them to
stay in, in that. In that wheelhouse, if you wantto call it that. So, you know, when I'm. When I'm
scoring a film, generally speaking, there's noguitar on this. This is like John Williams. It's
big orchestral, heavy duty stuff. So there'll be afew days I'll go and I won't even touch a guitar.
And then when I pick it up, when you have to playat the level that I'm expected to play, I mean, I

(09:37):
can always pick up a guitar and play, of course.
But when you're expected to play solos that reallysing, like Eric Clapton, you gotta practice. You
Know, kind of every day. So I get backed up alittle bit with that.
You, you said in the last show that we did thatyou were not playing as much as you had been and
that, in fact, your calluses were getting soft.

(09:58):
That does happen, especially when you bendstrings. You push the string up, and especially on
the high strings, which are just single wires,they're not wrapped. So you push them up and they
dig right into your fingers. So if your callusesaren't good and hard after about a half hour of
doing that, yeah, they're pretty sore.
Wow. So you have to actually get back in thatgroove then.

(10:21):
Yeah. So now that I'm cruising a little bit withthe film, they're liking what I'm doing. I'm
managing to get a half hour, 45 minutes ofpractice in, you know, as well as doing the film,
so that it's okay.
So as a player, you have to keep playing. Youcan't stop. It's something that you have to do in
order to keep up your chops, right?
Oh, absolutely. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

(10:42):
So is there anything that you have done over time,that's continued to be something that you use to
improve your playing? Is. I'm just curious becauseyou've been, you know, you've been at this for a
long time. Is there something you do to continueto improve?

Jimmy Rya (10:56):
Yeah, I take lessons.

Steve Cuden (10:58):
You take lessons?
Yeah, absolutely. There's this absolutelybrilliant guitar player named Tom Hess. He's in
Chicago, and I just stumbled on an ad, Facebook adfrom him, and I went on his website and I get this
guy sounds really good. So I talked to him alittle bit and I told him what I wanted to do and
I listened to him doing it and, he was as good asit gets. So I haven't started yet because I

(11:23):
couldn't with this film. But I got the firstlesson I looked at, and it's very methodical. He's
a great teacher. He's showing me how to do, youknow, things like you would hear Eddie Van Halen
doing, not just Dan da da da da, not simple solos,but that kind of stuff, which I've never been good
at. I've always. I. I've been the melodic guy,like the solo, and you'd're so vain. There's

(11:44):
nothing particularly speedy about that, nor thesolo on Let the river run, because 99% of the
sessions I get called for. That's not what theywant. They're not that kind of song. I mean,
nobody's going to call me for A speed metalMetallica is not going to call me to play on their
record. So I haven't really had use for that kindof playing. But I just. Just for me, I'd like to

(12:06):
learn how to do it just for fun.
Did he ask you why you needed lessons?

Jimmy Ryan (12:11):
Yeah.

St (12:14):
I would have asked you that.

Jimmy Ryan (12:15):
Well, he.

Steve Cuden (12:15):
What?
He.
He was very tactful about it because I said. Hesaid, send me some examples of your playing. And I
sent him, you know, Lucille, he says, wow,congratulations on your very successful career.
What exactly is it that you'd like to learn?
Yeah, no kidding.
And he got it right away because I was asking himto teach me something that was not represented at

(12:36):
all in what I sent him. And he said, I canabsolutely teach you that.
So I'm curious. What is it about music thatcontinues to draw you to it? What fascinates you
continually about music?
I don't know. I think it is genetically implantedin my brain that I feel it, I hear it. And the
older I get, the more I hear just the most minutedetails I can pick out. This is going to sound

(13:01):
like I'm bragging, but I can listen to a symphonyorchestra and tell you exactly what instruments
are playing, in which point, and at which pointthey switch over to a similar instrument where
they're located in the sound thing. Doing it solong, I've just become more and more in tune to
it. And what that's done is it's made meappreciate it more and more. So I just love
listening to great music. I'm a huge Rachmaninofffan, believe it or not. I listen to Ozzy Osbourne,

(13:26):
too. I don't have any boundaries on my taste. Forme, I don't listen to an awful lot of jazz. That's
a genre that just doesn't. It doesn't move me thatmuch. I recognize that it's probably the highest
level of playing there is. Just doesn't move methat much. But I listen to a lot of classical.
So I was going to say that, jazz is a lot ofimprovisation, and. And you've done a lot of work

(13:50):
that's, I think, probably less improvisational.
Exactly. the solo for you're so Vain, I wrote, youknow, she gave Carly, and the producer gave me the
track, and I went back to the apartment I wasstaying in in London and sat there and played with
it and played with it. And I came in with thissolo done, and I said, what do you think of this?
And they said, that's it. You're Done. But itwasn't such a big deal because I had rehearsed it.
It wasn't like it came off the top of my head. Andthere was this great solo. I. I had written it.

(14:14):
The Let the River Run one was more like, you know,seat of my pants. I had no idea what to do. And I
was there with Carly and Rob Mounsey, and theysaid, yeah, just play something wild. Just make
the thing scream. And, you know, it took sometime. It took about an hour.
It would take most people days, but you. An hour.
Yeah.
the BBC did a retrospective of the no Secretsalbum, which had your surveying on, was called

(14:36):
classic Carly Simon's no Secrets. And they sent afilm crew here to my studio because they wanted to
include me on the thing. And I told the story. Ijust told you. You know, I had worked it out in
the apartment and went in and I said, so somethinglike that. You want to try and again? And Richard
Perry, the producer, said, yeah, I think we'regood. I love it. And I said, wow. Okay. That was
easy. They interview Richard Perry. He says, onetake. Yeah, maybe one weekend. I'm like, what are

(15:03):
you talking about? Richard is no longer with us.
And I think he was in sort of advanced stages ofParkinson's, when he did this. So his memory was
certainly challenged because.
Well, how many years had it been since you'd doneit?
50 years? Oh, well, no, by then it was 45 years.
So he very well might have conflated you withsomeone else.
I think you're absolutely right. And here's thereason it's nonsense. If it takes you a weekend to

(15:30):
do a solo, you aren't doing that solo, right?
That's right.
I mean, we had sax players in for, one of thesongs on that, and a couple of them just didn't
cut it. And they weren't there more than an hour.
They were there an hour, hour and a half late. Andthen they finally got Bobby Keyes in there, the
Stones thing, and he nailed it on the first take.
And Richard kept making him do it over and overagain. We ended up keeping the first take. Nobody

(15:53):
will keep you there for a weekend. You're lucky ifyou get an hour. If you're not cutting it in an
hour, it's. Thank you so much. We have just whatwe need. Leave your W4 in the wastebasket on the
way out.
There's a. I'm trying to remember the title of it.
There's a relatively new documentary about, ah,studio musicians in Hollywood. And those folks,
they're talking to the. The composers are saying.

(16:14):
The question is, well, how long did you have torehearse with this orchestra? And they laugh. They
go rehearse. They come in. They do it in one take.
Site. Site. Reading it.
Yeah, you can, but. But then, you know, is it thevibe that they want? And that's when the time
comes in, you know. Yeah, you read the chart, butit's not exactly how I wanted it. I mean, I was

(16:34):
just reading today. Oh, God, Maxwell Silverhammer,the Beatles song. The Beatles almost killed each
other during that because McCartney wanted so muchdetail and so exact and minute and change this and
change that. And Leno is like, oh, my God, I neverwant to hear this song again. You know? And then
it still came out absolutely brilliant, but onlybecause he was willing to put that much effort

(16:57):
into it.
Sometimes genius goes that way.

Jimmy Ryan (16:59):
Yeah, yeah.
And he's truly a genius. so let's talk about.
Let's talk about writing for a moment, bothwriting music as well as prose. how old were you
when you first started to think about words,books, writing?
Oh, I'm very clear on that. When my first band,the Critters, we had a couple of top 10 hits or

(17:23):
top 40 hits, you know, one was top 10, the othertwo were top 40. A new member came into the band,
and he was really good singer, and he wrote songs.
And I noticed that the girls really liked hissongs. And I said, I'm gonna write some songs.
This isn't fair. So the impetus was, you know,wanting to impress the high school girls. I

(17:45):
wouldn't say that. I'm a brilliant lyricist. I canwrite a melody as good as the next guy. Lyrics I
have to work on pretty hard. And, there are peoplewho do it so well, like Paul Simon and, oh, gosh,
Carly does it very well.

Steve Cuden (17:58):
Billy Joel.
Billy Joel's a genius. Oh, my God, he's so good atthat. I prefer to work with lyricists and write
music. I have problem writing music.
So where did this notion of I'm going to write abook came from? Your first book is well written.
Your second book is well written. This is adifferent discipline and skill set than writing

(18:19):
music. Obviously it is.
And it came from COVID Yeah, well, my. My. Myother band that I played with for about 10 years,
a band called the Hitman. We were all studiomusicians who had. Had played on a bunch of
records, and we had actually three of, FrankieValli's four seasons in the band. The new ones did
who loves you and oh, what a Night and all that.

(18:40):
So initially we were doing mostly four seasonsongs and, and songs that we had played out. I did
a Jim Croce song because I played with him. Acouple of the guys played with Tommy James and
Shondell. So we did. Covid came along andeverything we had in the entire future got
canceled. Not a single gig. All the places pulledout, pulled the plugs, turned the lights off, and

(19:01):
went home. And in what would have been just afantastic gig, Carnegie hall was going to honor
Carly Simon. You know it would. It was like theKennedy Honors or something like that. I bet at
Carnegie hall. It was all set to go. Rehearsalswere planned, I got my plane fare. Covet came
along, boom, gone. So I had a lot of time on myhands. And I just. I was sitting with, this is a

(19:25):
story I tell people. And this is, this is the truestory. On one of my last gigs, I was in New York,
and my son Gavin lives there. He works forAtlantic Records. And we always get together, have
a beer, and we're sitting there, and he loves thestories. He's a real music lover. And he stopped
me in the middle of his door, he asked me to tellhim a story about like, the Doors or whatever, you
know. He said, dad, you gotta write a book. Writea book. I was an engineering student, not an

(19:48):
English student. I don't, I wouldn't know where tostart. He says, start with what you're doing right
here in this bar. Just tell the damn stories. So Idid that and I. I got an app called Prov Writing
something around a couple of things. And I startedwriting and I would run it through this thing and
said, this is. It would never say, this is dumb.

(20:10):
They said, this is lagging on. You need to trim itdown. Your grammar's a little awkward. Do this.
And it really helped me. It was like taking a highlevel English course. And I kept a really good
calendar. And I just went through the calendar andI said, oh, that day. Yeah, I remember that when I
was dead. And it all started coming up. But, theimpetus for doing it was there was nothing to do.

(20:31):
It was Covid. And what better thing to do than thesolitary art of writing a book?
So your research essentially was to go back to thecalendars.

Jimmy Ryan (20:40):
Yes.
And that then triggered the memories.
Exactly. Now, if I wanted exact details, times,dates, things like that, I would go to Wikipedia.
Anything that I couldn't remember, since we'retalking about big stars, is certainly in
Wikipedia. So if I didn't remember when they wereborn. Not a dumb thing like that. But the name of

(21:00):
a particular song or the name of a particularalbum or something, the exact name, because, you
know, you want to get it right. like when I workedwith John Entwistle of the who, we started off as
Rigor Mortis, but I think the album ended up beingcalled Ox, so my memory was Rigor Mortis. And then
I looked it up and went, oh, he changed the namewhen he released it. I forgot about that. So it

(21:21):
was little details. That Wikipedia was veryhelpful.
Just a little guy like John Entwistle.

J (21:25):
Yeah, just. He was a big guy.
Both playing music, or I should say playing musicand writing music and writing books, prose, all
require a certain degree of discipline. And so I'mgoing to guess, but you tell me, is the fact that
you had spent many years as a musician in thatdiscipline, did that help you to discipline

(21:49):
yourself as a writer of books?
Yes. Because in order to be a studio musician,there are a number of disciplines you have to
have. You have to have your craft together, ornobody's going to call you. If you're a big star,
they don't care. You know, there's plenty of bigstars who aren't particularly talented musicians,
but they have charm and they have a thing thatpeople like. But with a book, it just takes

(22:12):
sitting down and doing it a quarter of the waythrough. And I got a call from a writer in London
who said, I'm writing a book on Carly Simon. Iknow this is a big ask, but would you be
interested in writing a foreword for it? Youcertainly know her. And I said, wow, that'd be
really cool. So I wrote it forward. And I. Ilooked at. I said, geez, this is kind of good.
Anyway, I said, he says, oh, it's great. And bythe way, my publisher really liked it. Would you

(22:36):
like me to put in a good word for you? Are youwriting anything right now? And I said, as a
matter of fact, I am. So he contacted hispublisher, and she got back to me, and she said, I
would sign you in a heartbeat. And I went, oh,we're done. Send the paperwork. Before this
happened, I wrote to probably 10 agents, and Iwent, I did all the right stuff. I did research on

(23:01):
how. How to write a letter to an agent to, toprospect a book. Not one person even returned my
email. Not one.

Steve Cude (23:08):
Not. Not surprising.
It seems that if you don't come in with somebodyholding your hand, you're not getting in. And you
can add the. The Big publishers, Simon andSchuster, you know, whatever they are, Doubleday,
those things like that. You can't get in therewithout an agent. They only talk to agents. They
will not talk to talent. So that's why I wascalling agents. So when this came in, I said, I've

(23:29):
struck out on 10 points here. Let's just take thisdeal and it's a very decent deal. She doesn't do
any publicity. You're on your own for that. Butthe royalty is fantastic. If I were to do a book
in a traditional sense, I'd be lucky If I got 10%.
And an agent takes a point and a half of that. SoNow I'm at 8 and a half percent. This deal is 30%.

Steve Cuden (23:50):
Nice.
So. So yeah, that's a no brainer.

Ste (23:53):
Is that, is that New Haven?

Jimmy Ryan (23:55):
Yes, it is.
Teddy Dahleen. And Teddy has been a guest on thisshow.
Well, Teddy turned me on to you.

Steve Cuden (24:01):
That's right.
So that's how, that's how you and I are talking.
That's correct. That's how we're talking. Iscorrect. So sorry. Let's talk about your book,
California Dreaming and Primal Screaming. Tell thelisteners what it's really all about. I didn't
give very much away in the bio. So tell us what.
When I was a teenager, I was very, very unhappy. Ihad a very, very strict. I call myself a captive

(24:26):
Catholic. There was no choice in the matter. I hadbeen going to Catholic school since kindergarten.
The Catholic dogma was hammered into me, hammeredinto me. And part of me in my mind said, well, if
the Catholicism's so great, why do I feel likecrap? And I just, I was miserable. I was insecure,
I was shy. I had very thick glasses, same as Ihave now. But you know, for somebody 12 years old,

(24:51):
and I wear contacts now, usually for a 12, 13 yearold, 14 year old, it's kind of a burden. I was not
popular. We continued to move and I just startedquestioning what is up with this? So about, gosh,
I guess I was 18, 19, maybe 20. I started fallingaway from it. I started seeing this doesn't seem

(25:12):
real. It doesn't seem we're being asked to believeall this stuff with no proof whatsoever. None. you
know, people, people laughing, oh, you believe inUFOs. And I said, oh, you believe in hell? You
know, don't talk to me about UFOs. Yeah, yeah. Youbelieve that if you're bad you'll go and burn for
all eternity? Yeah, I don't think so. You know,this wasn't life was not a setup. I stumbled upon

(25:39):
a book, the Primal Scream, the Ultimate cure forNeurosis. And I said, what the heck is this? I got
the book and I read it and I went, I've got to dothis. Then I found out it was in California and
Beverly Hills, and I'm in New York. And long storyshort, I found not a subdivision, but not a

(25:59):
copycat either, but something similar to that inNew York. And I started doing it. And it just
opened up this whole world to me.
How?
Well, I can describe what you do. You go in thereand you sit with a group. And this. In my
particular case, we didn't do one on one. In thisone, it was a group. And somebody will say, I'd
like to work. And you find a phrase that expresseswhat's going on. I talk about this in the book. A

(26:21):
woman came in and her husband had just died ofcancer. And she said, I just have to work on this.
I'm just miserable. I'm in such grief. So BarbaraSher, this wonderful woman who, did this, this
therapy with us, who's been on Oprah and all thisstuff, she's passed away now. She's written like
100 books. And anyway, she was. She was our, Idon't know what you would call it, the group

(26:45):
leader, I guess. So she said, what are the wordsthat really expresses. She says, I miss you. And
I'll make up a name. Tom. Let's say his name isTom. I miss you, Tom. She says, okay, just go with
that. Just say it again, I miss you, Tom. And shestarts crying and the tears are falling down. She
says, that's it. Go with that. Express thatfeeling. Don't hold it in. And she's, oh, God, I

(27:09):
miss it, Tom.
I can't. I'm so.
I don't know what to do. And she. And people go,that's it. That's the feeling. Go with it. And you
express it. And then she stopped dead in hertracks. Now, I'm going to say this, and you may
need to cut it out of the thing. And she goes,you. And we all went, whoa, what? What just
happened? And then she started cursing andscreaming and pounding her chair and calling him

(27:35):
every name in the book. And the end of thesentence was, you left me alone to manage
everything, you fucker. How could you do this tome? You should have had a better diet. You should
have done this. And now here I am, I have tomanage everything. You love it. And she's
screaming at the top of her Lungs. And we're allgoing, this is the Twilight Zone. I have entered

(27:56):
the Twilight Zone. We started off with grief, andI don't know where I am right now, but it was
really working. Her face was transformed. She waskind of hunched over and all like an old lady. And
now she looked like King Kong. She's sitting up inher chair. Her face was flushed and bright. Her
eyes were as clear as glass. And at the end, shefinally said, that's it. And she said, now I can

(28:25):
wish him well on his journey. And it was sobeautiful. God, I'm getting choked up even talking
about it.
Is it that it's a purge? You're getting it out.
You're having a cathartic moment?
Absolutely. And you wouldn't believe how much ofthis stuff we carry around from childhood, from
events in our lives and all these things, and westore them up and in that storage. That is

(28:47):
blockage. And that blockage causes diseases. Imean, everyone will tell you that stress is the
killer. And this is what stress is. It's juststoring these horrible moments that warp your
personality into an angry person or a sad personor a weak person. It's all from experience. Now,
that's not the only thing he did. And that's notthe whole book. That's just the first chapter.

(29:09):
You go into all kinds of different therapies andpsychological things and spiritual things and so
on, all throughout it. You also, write early onabout your parents and that they were prejudiced
people and that it had to have affected yougrowing up. There's no way it couldn't.
Oh, absolutely. But it's another thing that madeno sense to me. People are people. Why are people

(29:31):
inherently bad? And I remember my sister beingasked out to a prom or a dance or something by the
captain of the football team, who happened to beblack. And my dad, when he let, she said, no, I
really. I don't think I'm going to be going tothat. But thanks. It's really nice of you to ask.
And he did this in front of my dad. And so heleft. And my dad, he blew a gasket. Better not

(29:55):
show his face around this house again. How dare heask you. and I went. All of a sudden, oh, that's
where we are, are we?
Huh?

Jimmy Ryan (30:04):
Okay.
All right. So I'm cure. I'm curious. As a personthat winds up in the music business, how do you
think that growing up in that environment affectsor affected the way that you played? Did you come
at it from, an angry and Attacking mode as aplayer, that that was. Do you think that that

(30:25):
impacted you in any way, or do you think that thatwas irrelevant to your being in the music
business?
Of course it affected, but I'm not sure how. Inhigh school, I was just sad. I was just miserable.
And the first songs I wrote, like on the firstCareers album, were all sad songs about rejection
and all that stuff like that. I have since, thankGod, graduated from that stage. Mostly I just

(30:45):
wanted to be good and I wanted to be a star.
Whether I approached. I didn't approach it withanger. I approached it like it was a solution. I
felt that if I could get good enough, then I coulddo what the big stars were doing. Now, I never
became a star, but I did become star adjacent.
Yes, definitely. You know, you've played on someof the biggest stages in the world and some of the

(31:08):
biggest records in the world.
Absolutely, absolutely. And it was just adetermination that if I did that, if I put in the
time and I put in the effort and. And the effortwas wonderful. I mean, I was learning to move my
fingers and make the same sounds that I washearing on the radio. And, the more I was able to
do that, the more enthusiastic I became about it.

(31:31):
So I would come home from school and just pick upmy guitar. And it didn't help my homework any. It
didn't help my studies. I was a solid C student. Iwas never, an A student at all.
But part of that process was that you were, Idon't want to use the word imitating or at least
emulating what you were hearing and trying to thenrecreate it. And that was putting your fingers

(31:57):
through those motions.
That's exactly it. And I wasn't trying to be BuddyHolly or Elvis Presley or anything like that, but
I felt that I needed to learn exactly what theywere doing as at least a platform to start to have
the dexterity to create within those things. Andin those days, we were all cover bands. Even the
Beatles were cover bands. The only reason theystarted writing, Paul tells this story, says the

(32:20):
only reason they started writing is because theywould play at gigs where other bands were playing
and the other bands would be doing the same songsthey were doing. And the only way to get out of
that was to write their own songs. Otherwise theynever would have started either. and it wasn't
that way with. With me particularly. But, I mean,the Critters, when they first started out, were
absolutely a cover band. So, you know, learningthe songs was part of the job.

(32:43):
Well, I Think most, most bands have to start bydoing other people's work to figure out what, what
their thing is in order to go off and write otherstuff. So back to California, dreaming and primal
screaming. you, definitely discuss, and we'vealready alluded to religion and Catholicism. you
discuss how religion has caused more problems fromyour point of view than it's solved. Can you

(33:07):
elaborate a little bit on that? And how do youthink that that has affected music, creativity,
art and so on over time?
I mean, certainly there's some beautiful art incathedrals, in their, you know, there's stained
glass windows and in devotion to. I have noproblem with devotion to God at all. I'm not
religious, but I am certainly not an atheist onany level. But I mean, look, the Crusades, the

(33:35):
Spanish Inquisition. I will say I really, reallylike the last two popes. I think their hearts are
in the right place where I don't agree with thewhole heaven and hell and judgment and all that
stuff. I don't think God would set us up likethat. you know, the all loving God isn't going to
put you down here. Let's see if you can do this.
If you can. I'm really going to mess with you.

(33:56):
But you do believe in higher entities? You dobelieve in.
Oh, absolutely. Well, I'm a teacher oftranscendental meditation. I mentioned that in the
book. And when you meditate, when you get to acertain place of silence, that silence, expands
into something that's really not very describable,but it is huge. And I will tell you that. That,

(34:20):
you know, people sometimes call it the one force,the one source. I think that's God. And the
argument that I make is the, the. This is a funnyone. This got my guy from Frontiers and whatever,
Anderson Salgado, that's the guy's name. This,this got his hackles up a little bit. So I said,
all right. So you believe in all that, right? Hesaid, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a good Christian. I

(34:44):
said, okay, is God everywhere? Is he omnipresent?
He says, yeah, absolutely. So he's in every cellof your body, right? Yeah. And I said in the
spaces in between. He goes, yeah, of course. Isaid, okay, then you are God. He says, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no. God is, no, he's not over there.
If he's omnipresent, he is in you. I said, I'mgoing to take this one step further. Is he

(35:07):
everywhere? Every, every, every, everywhere. Andhe says, yeah. I said, then God is Satan. And
there was silence. He says, no, that's impossible.
I said, well, then he's not omnipresent.
So what we're discussing at the moment is, theessence of what people call faith. That is to say
that, there's no proof of what you're talkingabout. You have to believe in it. And you actually

(35:32):
talk about belief in the book, and that, you were.
You were seeking because you didn't believe andthat you've continued to seek over your life.
Yeah. Much less so now. A few years ago, I kind ofhit the. You know, I got to there we are. All
right, good.
Where is there we are? What does that mean?

(35:53):
There we are means that you've reached a pointwhere you're not seeking anymore. You know that
what you're seeking is already inside of you. It'skind of a Buddhist thing, and it's definitely
Eastern, much more than Western. And you stopbecause God is omnipresent. And all the religions
teach that he is in you. And when you silence allthe noise, he's right there. And he's not a he,

(36:22):
and he's not a body, and he's not an old gray manwith a beard. He is simply presence. He is simply
presence. And if you spend enough time sitting inthat presence, that silent presence, you actually
feel it expand out and out and out into eternity.
And at first, it's just an experience. At firstyou say, oh, this is a cool experience. Then you

(36:44):
realize, but where is this experience? It's methat is who I am. I'm not this body. I am that
consciousness, that huge, broad consciousness. Andyou hit that enough times, then all of a sudden
you start relaxing. There's nothing to look for.
It's all right here.
Is that what you identify as true identity?

(37:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that comes in. In through silence?
Through silence. Well, the best way to get to it'sthrough meditation. Some people stumble and fall
into it. Like Eckhart Tolle. Lucky guy. I mean, hejust sat down on a park bench for three years or
something like that. It hit him like. Like a.

Steve Cuden (37:24):
Like a.
Like an 18 wheeler. And he just fell into it. Andhe teaches about the exact same thing that I'm
talking about. You know, for. For most of usplebs, you know, you guys start medicine. I've
been doing it for 52 years now, and it. And ittook 45 of them to hit this point. Now, I'm not

(37:45):
telling you. I would not pretend to tell you. It'sthere all the time. It's not. But it's there every
time I stop and say, all right, where am I? And Iclose my eyes and there it is. When you realize
that it's infinite, There can't be two infinities.
So it's the self, it's the undefined consciousnessthat looks out through your eyes. It looks through

(38:08):
your ego. Your ego is what presents you to thepeople. Okay, you're up there, your personality
and all that stuff. But behind that ego is a self.
The you that's watching all of this, that's justthe observer, that's just the witness. And if you
sit with that witness without all the layers ofego and personality on it, you get back to that
point and all that other stuff is silent. Yourealize that that has no boundaries. That's not

(38:33):
locked in your body. It expands out beyond yourbody and it will wait. And it's the same self for
everybody. That's why people say we are all one.
It's utterly meaningless if you don't have thisexperience. Oh yeah, we're all one, you know,
Kumbaya. But without the experience, it doesn'tmean anything. We're all one. no, you're you, I'm

(38:55):
me. This is a problem. But when you have thisexperience enough times, you start to realize that
you are that person over there. That's just apersonality and a body working.
And so what. So what you call true identity iseveryone, all, all beings is one. True identity.
Yeah.
And to reduce it to an identity would be mistakenbecause it has no parameters, no boundaries. It's

(39:21):
pure consciousness. It doesn't see, it doesn'thear, it doesn't smell. The body does all that. It
simply witnesses. But it is the source of,everything you see here.
So then who are you or me or anyone else as thenthe person who creates music, creates words on

(39:43):
paper, etc. most, I would say M. I've had many,many guests on this show who will say. And I say
the same thing, which is that I am not the creatorof what I'm doing. I'm a conduit for something
that's coming from elsewhere.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. John Lennon said thesame thing. He says, I don't write songs, I just

(40:05):
write them down.
And exactly the same way. I feel that everything Ido, I give thanks. If I write a good cue for this
movie, I'm working. I said, thank you guys, thatwas really great. You know, where does the idea
come from? I sat with a teacher once and, she. Shewas talking about free will. And. And to a certain
extent, free will is real. You know, you makechoices every single day. But I said, so it's

(40:28):
real, right? She said, well, yes and no. And Isays, what's the no part? And she says, well, give
me an example of where you make a choice. And Isaid, well, I decided to get up this morning. She
said, did you. Where did that idea come from? AndI said, well, I just got up. Yeah, And where did
that come from? Well, you know, I went and made mycoffee. And where did that idea to make your

(40:49):
coffee come from? I said, I just came up with it.
You just came up with it? How. Tell me how thathappened. And I can't come up with it. And she
keeps pulling me farther back, farther back intoconsciousness. And she said, what happened is it
simply arose in your consciousness? And I said,yeah. And she says, and where did it arise from? I

(41:12):
don't know. She says, now we're getting somewhere.
That's it. Things, ideas, all that stuff arisefrom this vast, unbounded field of consciousness
that we all share. We all have it.
So why do you think it is that, you have an ideacome through you, that you can express, but it's

(41:32):
not going through someone else at the same time orthe day before or the day after? Why is it coming
through you at that time? Why?
Well, there's a vast Internet, but the stuff thatcomes up on your computer isn't the stuff that
comes up on mine.
No, but there are people that on. There are peopleon Facebook that are getting the same ads that I
am.
I know, I know, I know, I know. And there arepeople on Earth that are getting the same ideas,

(41:55):
too. You call them political parties.
That's. There is. There is some truth, too. If youlook back in history, a huge number of
breakthroughs, scientifically, medically,artistically, creatively, etc. A huge number of
breakthroughs will happen on different parts ofthe earth with different people right at the same

(42:15):
time in history. And they don't talk, they don'tknow each other, and they haven't exchanged,
notes, and they're just coming up with the sameconcept at the same time.
Yeah, we could do an hour on that. Just thatalone. But it's coming through our receivers.
Okay? We're like radios. And your radio isdifferent from my radio. And our radios are shaped

(42:36):
by the experiences, our genders, our preferences,anger that we've experienced, grief that we've
experienced. All these things. It comes up, but itfilters through all that and comes out in a unique
form that's unique to you. and like you just said,sometimes it's not unique to you. Sometimes it's
unique to about 30 people.
Right. So you've experienced many different facetsof spirituality and, religions and so on. You, you

(43:04):
were introduced early on to a book about Hinduism,I think it was called Hinduism, correct?

Jimmy Ryan (43:08):
Yeah, it was.
And, and you have ultimately through. You wentthrough primal screaming and so on, and ultimately
you came to transcendental meditation. Is thatwhat you still practice daily?
It is. Well, I, I do that for the most part, butI've had several spiritual teachers who. They took

(43:29):
some exception to the, the. The transcendentalmeditation technique. I don't necessarily agree
with them, but I sometimes use their techniquestoo, which are fine. They work, you know, they
work very well and they're coming from a prettyhigh place. These are good teachers. I'm really
careful that I don't sit down with teachers that,that, that aren't so good.
How do you think that meditating has impacted orhelped you, as a, Both a writer and a player?

(43:55):
I think it's sensitivity. I think it, it's being.
It's. It develops the heart. It develops the heartso that you play in a heartfelt way that, that
moves people. I, I feel that my playing and mymusic is more real now. For a while it was just my

(44:18):
fingers worked really well and I was doing stuffthat I'd learned and stuff like that. Now it comes
from a deeper place and I think it connectsbetter. And I feel it. I, actually feel it in my
body when I'm playing, when I'm connected and whenI'm not connected. And it's helped me tremendously
with them.
And that's because of meditation?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's helped meimmensely. Well, I mean, all the things that I did

(44:43):
that you read in the book and I mean, I did EST,LifeSpring, one on one therapy. Freudian, Jungian.
Gosh, the occult, psychics. TM. Ah. Oh, God. Justso many things. They were all helpful, every
single one of them. I would not, I would not writeoff well, M. The occult thing, I'd probably not go
near again. That was pretty scary. But all ofthose have helped me being so hard on myself, stop

(45:09):
being so negative, stop being so sad. They'veturned me into a pretty darn happy person.
Because you were a high anxiety person as a youngperson, correct?

Jim (45:20):
Very much so. Very much so.
And you were even high anxiety well into youradulthood.

Jimmy Ryan (45:24):
Yes, yes.
But now you've become a more relaxed and calmhuman.
Yeah.
Mainly because of what you've gone through.
Exactly. And I'm a warmer person. I'm much, muchless judgmental. You know, I really tend to take
people exactly where they are, how they arewithout trying to come up with all the reasons why
they're idiots and stuff like that. I've come tounderstand stress and I've come to understand

(45:49):
programming and I'm much more tolerant. I thinkthat, that's, that's something that my father was
really, really good at teaching me because he wascompletely intolerant. So he gave me a good
example of what intolerance can create and thatstarted it. And my mom was a little bit better.

(46:09):
She wasn't, she wasn't shrieking about it.

Steve Cuden (46:13):
Ah.
And Therefore, what not to be or who to be.
Exactly, exactly. Seeing the damage that sort ofthing does. I got back at my mom really good. My
mom was very anti Jewish and very prejudiced. Mydad didn't like black people, my mom didn't like
Jews. So I married a Jew. That's not my currentwife. She's the mother of my children. And we

(46:37):
lasted about 20 years and that didn't work outfor. It's in the book. Just read it.
How is what you call cosmic consciousness. How isthat related to transcendental meditation? Have we
already covered that in some way?
What cosmic consciousness is? There's three basicstates of consciousness that normal people waking,

(47:00):
sleeping and dreaming. When you meditate, you havea thing called transcendental consciousness. When
the transcendental consciousness, which is things,calm down and quiets down a little bit and you
start to feel that true self. Cosmic consciousnessis when you integrate that, you ground it and you

(47:20):
have it all the time. And, and that's the firststage of enlightenment m where you are the witness
of all activity. You're living in that space thatI was talking about, not up front here in the ego.
So you're kind of watching your own ego performingits stuff while you're sitting back in this
blissful, absolutely unbounded, untethered byanger or stress or anything like that. I mean,

(47:46):
it's not like you lose your personality. Sure.
Somebody does something horrid to horrible to you,you're going to get mad. But you're not going to
carry it around. It's going to be done the secondit's done. And then you're back into this
wonderful sense of man, this freedom of justhugeness that's cosmic consciousness. But then
there's two more above that, and then a refinedversion of the next one. There's, God

(48:09):
consciousness. The name of it is kind of it'sdeceiving because, it's not God consciousness per
se, but it's when perception is refined to thepoint where you can perceive atoms, you perceive
the energy in things. And there are people whodescribe. There's a person in my community here
who wrote a book on it, and he talks about what hesees. And I'm like, oh my God, what kind of

(48:30):
eyeballs do you have? You know, he sees spirits,he sees angels, he sees molecular structures, he
literally sees them. He sees the energy coming offof animals, whether it's dark energy, whether it's
light energy, depending on how healthy they are.
it's a fantastic book. It's by a man named HarryAlto A A L, T O. And if you stumble on it, you'll

(48:52):
read it and you go, what is this guy drinking? Ohmy God. But that's his experience and he's a very
normal human being and he's meditated for many,many years. And then the final one is unity
consciousness. When you actually perceive, it'snot a concept, it's not a. It's not an idea that
you have. I would be looking at you and know thatyou are me. You would be me. I wouldn't be talking

(49:14):
to Steve, I would be talking to me. And whenyou're at that level, you're really, really good
to be around because that's a person that treatsyou like yourself. That's a person that perceives
you as themselves, so no harm will come off ofyou. You immediately feel just so comfortable
around people like this.

(49:36):
So that's not the same as self love.
Self love kind of implies two things, the loverand the loved. This is one thing. Whenever you get
into this area, it's really hard to describebecause it has no boundaries or parameters. You
have to m. The only thing it has is the experienceof experiencing it. So when you're experiencing
that, it's not. You're all love. Everything isjust great. And the person across from you is you.

(50:01):
So why be mean to them? Why be harmful? I'd bedoing it to myself. So you're not self loving, you
are the self, so you don't harm the self. Doesn'teven occur to you.
One of the things as a writer that I find, and youmay find it too, is that, there's a frailty of
fragility to Language and being able to express itin words. Sometimes it's not only difficult, it's

(50:26):
almost impossible. And it requires the experiencerather than the expression in a verbal way.
What's the taste of an orange to know somebodywho's never had an orange? Well, it's sort of
acidic. What, like hydrochloric acid? How do youdescribe it? You know? But yeah, with prose, it

(50:46):
really, really. The meditation helped me with thebook because I was able to find my sense of humor.
I was able to. To write it in a way that wouldentertain because I understood entertainment after
all these years of doing. Doing it. And,
Oh, I think you're very clear in the book. I thinkthe book is very clearly and well written. So it's
not like I, read it and. And couldn't understandwhat you were talking about. I absolutely could.

(51:11):
so I think that that's a. That's a big, big thing.
What is the life between lives?
That's a tough one. I. I don't like to say Ibelieve in anything, but reincarnation makes good
sense to me. I won't say I believe in it becauseunless I'm there and I know who I was before,
which. Which in these hypnotic regressionsessions, I did. But when you're out of that, you

(51:37):
go back and say, was that real? Did I really dothat? Gosh, it sure sounds like I did. Because my
life today really seems like it would have evolvedout of that kind of a background. Life between
lives is vacation. That's the heaven realm.
There's, you know, there's.

Steve Cu (51:53):
That's the soul world.
Yeah, the soul world. And from. From what Iunderstand from talking to very, very talented
psychics, it's just like this. Only it's reallyhappy. There's no egos involved. It's. It's
heaven. It is literally the heaven realm. And youcan hang out there as long as you like. But most
people want to evolve. You don't evolve there. Youjust. Whatever level you got there, that's the

(52:14):
level you're at. So people come back to Earth orsomewhere. I mean, after doing this telescope
thing, there's plenty of choices out there.
I was going to say coming back full circle to thebeginning of this with, looking out into the
space, into the cosmos. there are now. We now knowthere are trillions and trillions and trillions of
planets and galaxies and so on. And so my questionthen, from what used to be very limited

(52:40):
understanding of the cosmos is now a. Stilllimited, but much grander than it Was is that, you
know, how many of those planets out there havesentient beings walking on them or somehow on
them.
The odds against us being alone are being aloneare absurdly low. Or the odds against them are

(53:01):
absurdly high. I should say.
Not to coin a phrase on that, but they would beastronomical.
Astronomical, exactly. I mean there's so manyoptions, opportunities and so these places are so
far away. I'm not sure under normal circumstances.
Now I also am a firm believer inextraterrestrials.
Well, if you understand quantum theory at all,which I only understand barely the surface of,

(53:25):
what's happening here between you and me and thoseof us on Earth. Quantum physics says it's every
day bit of what's happening here energy wise isalso happening everywhere else throughout the
universe. And that you can have something happenenergetically here on Earth that's also being
sensed, felt, dealt with, looked at, somewhereelse. And that's quantum mechanics basically.

(53:50):
Yeah, you get into quantum mechanics, it getsreally bizarre.
What do is it is your thinking for artists andcreatives that figuring out how to silence the
mind to get to this, to these other higher planes,that that's a useful tool for becoming more
efficient or proficient or at ah, your art.

(54:14):
Well, let's put it this way. The Beatles sat downwith Amarishi Mahesh Yogi, the one who founded
Transcendental Meditation and the next thing theydid was sergeant Pepper, you know. And then
believe me, there was a transition that they wentthrough once that album hit that was really,
really strong. And Paul meditates to this day. AndGeorge did as well. George did a lot of, a lot of

(54:39):
other eastern explorations. I don't know aboutJohn, I've no idea. Ringo I also don't know. But
Paul certainly did and he certainly has had thelongest career of any of them.
Well, and, and the most prolific career. You sayhe was a really nice guy. Have you worked with
him?
Oh that was in the first book. Yeah, we were doinga vocal.
Oh that's right. now I'm recalling. Yes, for sure.

(55:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ah, he just popped into the studio and he helpedus out with some vocals. Yeah. And then sat down
and played us live and let die the night before herecorded it.

Steve Cuden (55:10):
Oh my goodness.
I was sitting there just pinching myself. Thisisn't real. I'm dreaming. I'm going to wake up, up
any minute now.
Did you know that was going to be a hit when youheard it?
I don't think I thought about it. I think I was sooverwhelmed because I was such a huge Beatle fan.
The idea that I'm standing here around theSteinway piano in the studio and one of my

(55:34):
favorite beats, I think between John and Paul,it's a toss up that, you know, he's sitting there
singing me a song that he wrote that nobody'sheard except George Martin and maybe Linda, you
know, and. And maybe they re. Yeah, I guess theguys in Wings rehearsed it because that was a
Wings record. So, you know, the three or four guysin his band, George Martin, Linda and me. Well, me

(55:55):
and Carly Simon and whoever was in the studio atthe time. But the honor of doing that was just
nuts. And then I got. I wrote about this too. ThenI got invited to his first performance of Wing
Wings due to the connections that had been madethrough all of that. And. And he set up the Hard
Rock Cafe in London and did a concert with Wings.
The first. That was the funny story where HenryMcCullough, his guitar player, got so drunk he

(56:20):
couldn't play. And he. Henry and I were friends atthe time. Henry walks over. He was playing in the
middle of the room. It was kind of in a circularthing. We're all around. Henry walks over and puts
his guitar. Mother. He's doing it. I can't play.
You gotta take over, mate. And they were playing ablues song. They just picked the guitar up, start
playing. Paul turned around, looked at me like,what the. And then he saw I was playing the song

(56:41):
and he goes.
I think. I think he knew what was going on. Ithink he knew Henry could barely stand up.
wow.
And I think he was happy to have somebody who knewthis song and was playing it fine. And. And then
eventually Henry kind of. Somebody got him somecoffee, and I gave him the guitar back and.
Wow.
Yeah, so. So I actually played with McCartney. Iactually played one song with.

(57:02):
With Wings. That's wild. Well, for the secondtime, I've been having just an absolutely fabulous
conversation with Jimmy Ryan. I'm just wondering,last show you gave us some great examples of,
stories that are weird, quirky, offbeat, strange,or just plain funny. Do you have anything else you
could share with us today?

(57:23):
Sure. I mean, the one you just heard, that waspretty good.

Steve Cud (57:27):
That was pretty good.
The faux pas that May, May, May may have been theinspiration for your Sylvain. Okay. We're at the
Troubadour in la. Very famous club that launched alot of careers.

Steve Cuden (57:43):
And.
Yeah, and it was. It was launching Carly's Career.
I think we were either this one. I think we wereplaying with Harry Chapin. I think we were the
headliners. And. And, we were in the dressingroom. We share one dressing room. And, you know,
we all came from the hotel dressed. Nobody had toget dressed there. So it wasn't like, well,
everybody gotta leave while I get dressedeverywhere. Set to go. So, we're sitting around

(58:06):
and there's a knock on the door. And Carly said,can you get that? I just want to finish my makeup.
And I said, yeah, sure, open the door. This guy'sstanding there and he's got big, thick, gigantic
glasses. And he's wearing one of those rayonshirts, you know, that are flammable and a big
high collar, real kind of 60s, 70s look. He said,I'd like to see Carly. And I said, well, we're

(58:28):
just about to go on, you know, maybe come backafterwards. He says, I said, I'd like to see Carly
now. And he got really heavy with me. I said, letme think about that. Wham. And I just slammed the
door in his face. Because, you know, I was prettycocky in those days. I was doing good and I don't
take that kind of from anybody. And I. I start towalk back and Carly, her jaw is wide open and her

(58:52):
eyes are like, wide open. I said, what? She said,do you know who that was? I said, no, it's some
asshole who. What? She goes, no, that was WarrenBeatty. Oh, no. Oh my God. Let me go get him. I'm
so sorry. She said, no, stop, stop. And I go, no,no, no. I want to make it right. That was

(59:13):
horrible. She says, no. She says, I don't thinkanybody in his adult life has ever put him in his
place like that. You did a really cool thing. Letit go. I went, okay, you're the boss.
Oh my goodness.
And that was it. And, I think he approached her.
He didn't come back up to the dressing room. Ithink he approached her down on the floor or at

(59:36):
the bar or something, something like that. But Idon't think it ever got mentioned. But I bet you,
at least the elements in that whole thing werepart of your so vain. And I asked her about it
because when she wrote her first book, shecontacted me. She says, please, please, please
send me the longest email you need to do and writeabout everything you remember about those times. I

(59:58):
said, oh, okay, what's up? She says, well, I haveto write a book and I don't remember anything. She
said, I remember some stuff but you have a goodmemory and you were there, and it'll give me
another angle on the whole. So I put that story inthere and I said, so was that something. That was
the inspiration. She gave me a very cryptic, shesays, I'll never tell. And that was it. She

(01:00:21):
wouldn't even tell us. You know, she finally, shefinally has. I mean, in her book, she said it.
Warren Beatty was, you know, one of the people.
She said, there are three people in your surveyingthat she was talking about. But I, I maintain that
the Warren Beatty element in that thing came fromthat interaction stuff.
Wow, that's, that's kind of remarkable.

(01:00:42):
Yeah. Now I, I have another one and I actually,for. For your readers who want to be studio
musicians or, or, or whatever, this is how weirdgetting a call can be. So I'll just, I'll just
read this. It's from my first book. So I get acall, I'm in.
In.
I'm in London, and I answer the phone. Someonewith a very thick British accent said, is this Jim

(01:01:05):
Ryan? I said, yes. I replied. He says, I'd like tohire you. He said cryptically, he wanted to hire
me. Okay. Since he didn't identify himself, Icouldn't be sure he had the right number. Did he
want me to clean his gutters? I asked, hire me forwhat? He paused before answering. to play bass, of
course. I went, oh, oh, okay. Well, might I knowwho's calling? He says, matthew Fisher. The name

(01:01:29):
seemed familiar, but I couldn't quite place it. Hesaid, I'm finally getting around to my solo album
and you were recommended by a colleague. I go,okay, well, I inquired about the finally getting
round part. Were you busy with other projects?
Asked the memory challenged ignoramus on my end ofthe phone. He said, well, yes, actually. Thick
British eggs? Well, yes, actually. I've been ontour with my band Prokoil Harem for years and

(01:01:54):
talking and taking some time off to do my ownalbum, Roll Call Harem. Oh my God. Slapping my
palm to my face. This was the gentleman who wroteand performed the famous organ part that opened
and defined Whiter Shade of Pale. And he wanted tohire me. And I answered the phone acting like he
was looking for a plumber. I let. I let out anervous laugh and told him, of course, I. Of

(01:02:18):
course, now I remember you. So sorry for notrecognizing your name. He seemed distant, formal.
The apology went right over his head. Yes, well,we'd like to start fairly soon. Are you available
for rehearsals? I said, I am. Where? And when hegave me the dates for the following week in a,
rehearsal studio address, then abruptly ended theconversation with, we'll be recording in Rome.

(01:02:40):
Make sure your passport is current. This wasfabulous news. Delivered like a traffic ticket.
That was him. That was his personality. He wasjust flat as a pancake.
So that song's one of the two or three mostglorious songs ever written, in my opinion.

Jimmy Ryan (01:02:56):
You bet.
And performed. Yeah, it's just absolutelyglorious.
And of course, we made him play it for us.

Steve Cuden (01:03:03):
Of course you did.
It's not particularly complicated, but when it'splayed by the master, it's exactly like the
record. Just like, you heard us go, oh, man, thisis so cool.
All right, so last question for you today, Jimmy.
you've shared a huge amount of, helpful, usefultools throughout this whole show, but I'm

(01:03:23):
wondering if you have a piece, ah, of advice thatyou like to share with those who are, more than
what you told us in the last episode, but that forsomeone who's starting out in the business, or
maybe they're in a little bit, what kind of advicecan you lend?
Park your ego out in the backyard. What can happenis you could get a call to be part of something

(01:03:45):
and feel a little cocky. Wow. You know, Metallicacalled me up to be a second guitar player on tour.
And you could have a tendency to walk and go,aren't I cool? And start cracking jokes, not
knowing what people's personalities are and stufflike that. Everyone hates that. What recording
sessions want is they want a family. They want tofeel like you're a brother, a sister, somebody

(01:04:10):
that is really cool to hang out with. And that'swhere less is more where you want to go in. Be
quiet, listen, use your ears. Get the feel forthe. Read the room. That's the advice I get. Read
the room. Don't be cocky. Don't be pushing yourpersonality on anyone. Do as you're told, at least

(01:04:30):
initially. When you get to know everybody muchbetter, you can loosen up a little bit. But
initially you stick out like a sore thrum. You'rethe new guy, and everyone's going to be watching
you and they're going to be looking for quirks orsomething because they don't know you and they're
not sure is this going to work out or somethinglike that. And you just want to be neutral and
pleasant and really, really good to be around.

(01:04:53):
Don't come in thinking you're a hotshot. don'tthink you're better than anyone else. Calm down,
calm down. Just park the ego outside. As a matterof fact, that's what Quincy Jones said when they
did that We Are the World thing. Yeah, he saidthat to people like Diana Ross and Huey Lewis and,
you know, all the huge stars that were there. Hesaid he put a sign up, park, leave your ego in the

(01:05:17):
car. This isn't the place for it. And peoplewalked in like, whoa, wait a minute, Bob Dylan was
there. I mean, you know, the biggest stars in thebusiness were on that thing. Lionel Richie.

Steve (01:05:27):
Michael. Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson. Right, right.

Steve Cuden (01:05:31):
Park.
You park your ego out in the parking lot. Don'tbring it in here.
That's outstanding advice that works in all formsof business and life, is that until you're on the
spot and where people are asking you for youropinion, keep your opinion to yourself until it's
wanted. And, it's sometimes difficult for people.

(01:05:52):
I know I'm guilty of it, occasionally offering anopinion that nobody's asked for. I think we all do
it. and it's a very good piece of advice becauseit means that you are a team player, not, in it
just for yourself.
Yeah. And I mean, I've been in sessions wheresomebody comes up with an idea that's just awful.
And the sessions where I said something, I didn'tget called back and I was right. It was awful, but

(01:06:16):
it wasn't my place to say something. And I've beenin sessions where something awful was happening. I
don't mean nobody was throwing guitars at breakingit. I just mean a bad musical idea. And I just
kept my mouth shut until somebody said, what doyou think? And I said, well, I think it's a great
idea. As an alternative, maybe we could try this.
If you're looking for some variety, possibly, andif you present it like that, it's really

(01:06:39):
different. They say, no, that sucks. Let's dothis. You don't want to say that. The producer can
say that.
The key in there was they asked you.
Yes, exactly. In the new situation, wait to beasked. Wait to be asked. And present your idea
politely.
I think that that's, absolutely solid soundadvice, and I. I thank you for saying it because I
think it's important for people to understandthat, yes, you should bring your ego to the game,

(01:07:03):
but you shouldn't offer it to anyone.
Your ego is part of your personality, and it'snot. Ego isn't necessarily a bad word.
You need it in order to play well, to, to performwell. You need that ego. You need that to buff it
up. It's just that you don't need to impose it onpeople.
Exactly, exactly. You don't need to bring thenegative side of it up.
That's true. Jimmy Ryan, this has been anabsolutely spectacular story beat, and I can't

(01:07:29):
thank you enough for your time, your energy, andall this great wisdom.
Wow. Thank you, sir. I really appreciate theopportunity to talk. You're great. You ask great
questions. You make it so easy.
Thank you. It's my great pleasure. And now, aspromised, please sit back and enjoy Jimmy's
excellent song that he wrote, produced, and onwhich he plays all the instruments called why

(01:07:52):
Can't We Just Be Friends? Featuring the vocals ofDana Calitri.
Tomorrow. Where? I don't know. It's a mystery whyall this has to be. I'm going to let you have some

(01:08:23):
time Cuz I know you're not mine but it kills mewhen I hear you say why can't we just Just be
friends? Cause I'm still in love with you I wishthat I could change what you're going through.

(01:08:54):
Baby I need your loving Every day I may be goingaway now, now, now, now. Your P. Has felt enough

(01:09:29):
tears huh? From all those lonely years when youhad no one there to hold you Hell baby, that's no
way to live When I got so much love to give and itkills me when I hear you ask me it. I need your

(01:10:15):
loving Every m day I make believer now But I'm notgoing away if I could hold back the sun Then I
could keep this night forever I want to be theonly one in your dreams so if you ever get down

(01:10:39):
make a fool of me. Baby I'm still in love with youI wish that I could change what you're going
through But I tell you I need your nothing elseevery day I may believe it now but I'm not going

(01:11:13):
away. Never know I'm still in love with you I wishthat I could change what you're going through.

(01:11:34):
Tell you I need your loving every day I maybelieve right now M But I'm not going away. Baby.

(01:11:58):
And so we've come come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment, rating orreview on whatever app or platform you're
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(01:12:21):
iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until nexttime, I'm Steve Cuden and may all your stories be
unforgettable.