JJ Nelson, Screenwriter-Episode #388

JJ Nelson is a Michigan native who, as a kid, made schlocky home movies with his best friend. He then built his comedic chops as an editor of his high school newspaper, writing irreverent Onion-inspired articles mocking the establishment. Somehow, he got away with all of it, diploma in hand. 

JJ honed his writing skills as an undergrad at the University of Michigan before earning an MFA in Screenwriting from UCLA’s renowned School of Theater, Film, and TV, where he also received the prestigious Samuel Goldwyn Award for screenwriting. He interned at Will Ferrell and Adam McKay’s Gary Sanchez Productions, where he met a number of comedy titans he’s since gone on to work with.

JJ has had projects either set up or in development with Sony Pictures, Paramount Insurge, Di Boneventura Pictures, Broken Road, Green Hat, Virgin, and Jake Paul’s Team 10. Ultimately none of them got made, which is, truth be told, exactly like 99% of every other screen project in Hollywood.

But one of them did! The film, Bad Man, an action/comedy starring Seann William Scott, Johnny Simmons, Rob Riggle, Lovi Poe, and Chance Perdomo in his final screen performance, was released in the fall of 2025, earning JJ his first produced feature film writing credit.

I’ve seen Bad Man and can tell you it’s an offbeat, dark, action-comedy with heart and a clever twist at the end.

For the record, JJ and I have known one another for more than 15 years as we attended the UCLA MFA in Screenwriting Program at the same time.

Episode Transcript

Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat,

(00:02):
Whatever the pursuit is just loving the workitself. Everything else that kind of comes with it
can be a drag. There's ups and downs. And alsojust try to find actionable things to move forward
on. So just starting out and you just try it, thenjust spend as much time writing as you can. If you
work with actors and you like them, try to dosomething more with them. It's like finding out

(00:26):
what's actionable and moving forwardwholeheartedly on that.
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden, a podcast forthe creative mind. Storybeat explores how masters
of creativity develop and produce brilliant worksthat people everywhere love and admire. So join us

(00:47):
as we discover how talented creators find successin the worlds of imagination and entertainment.
Here now is your host, Steve Cuden
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the steel City, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My guest today, J.J. nelson, is aMichigan native who as a kid made schlocky home

(01:13):
movies with his best friend. He then built hiscomedic chops as an editor of his high school
newspaper, writing irreverent Onion inspiredarticles mocking the establishment. Somehow, he
got away with all of it, diploma in hand. JJ Honedhis writing skills as an undergrad at the
University of Michigan before earning an MFA inscreenwriting from UCLA's renowned School of

(01:37):
Theater, Film and TV, where he also received theprestigious Samuel Goldwyn Award for
Screenwriting. He interned at AH Will Ferrell andAdam McKay's Gary Sanchez Productions, where he
met a number of comedy titans. He's since gone onto work with JJ has had projects either set up or
in development with Sony Pictures, Paramount,Insurge de Bonaventura Pictures, Broken Road,

(02:01):
Green Hat, Virgin, and Jake Paul's Team 10.
Ultimately, none of those got made, which is,truth be told, exactly like 99% of every other
screen project in Hollywood. But one of them did.
The film Bad man, an action comedy starring SeannWilliam Scott, Johnny Simmons, Rob Riggle, Lovie
Poe and Chance Perdomo in his final screenperformance was released in the fall of 2025,

(02:26):
earning JJ his first produced feature film writingcredit. I've seen Bad man and can tell you it's an
offbeat, dark action comedy with heart and aclever twist at the end. For the record, JJ and I
have known one another for more than 15 years aswe attended the UCLA MFA and Screenwriting Program
at the same time. So for all those reasons andmany more, I'm truly delighted to have my friend,

(02:51):
the gifted screenwriter J.J. nelson, join metoday. J.J. welcome to Story Beat.
Thanks, Steve. As I was saying earlier to you,this is my first podcast ever.
Well, we're going to see if we can make that agood one for you. so let's go back in time just a
little bit. We already know that you were doingstuff in high school, but how old were you when
you first started paying attention to movies andTV and the way things looked and operated on

(03:16):
screen?
I love like Ghostbusters back, you know, back,back to the future. It was, it was a lot. It was
less like the, the, the big sort of sci fi. Like Iwas like, it's like Star wars is cool, but, you
know, it's not as cool as like Bill Murray andGhostbusters. Like, I just sort of gravitated
toward, toward comedy and, and like the moreirreverent stuff and things that I felt like, you

(03:37):
know, was more anchored in. And what I felt, youknow, was real life. I mean, I wasn't, wasn't
busting ghosts, but I could see a world where thatwas a thing.
But you like the comedy edge to things as opposedto the hardest core action stuff.
Yeah, I think it was, even at a young age, it'slike, I think people, who gravitate toward comedy

(03:58):
are just people who sort of look at life through abit of a comedic lens as it is. It's like you sort
of, see absurdity and things. It's just, it's justsort of the way you're wired. And then, And then I
think that the first movie that they reallyimpacted me in like, I guess a bigger way was
movie Lethal Weapon, which, which I actually saw,and I believe, if I'm doing the math correctly, I

(04:22):
think I was six years old. yeah, yeah. I don'tthink they recommend a, Lethal Weapon for six year
olds, but.
No, no, six. Six is a little young for LethalWeapon.
Yeah, yeah, there's kind of, there's a ruseinvolved. I was, I was across the street at my
buddy Zach's, house. one night. I think that waslike the big movie that was premiering on, hbo.
We're sitting watching TV with his parents and hissister and it's like, oh, Lethal Weapons on. And I

(04:45):
was just like, oh. And I think, Zach's mom's like,oh, we gotta turn away from that. And I was like,
oh, you know, actually like I've seen it, whichwas a complete lie. And you know, this wasn't like
a premeditated thing. It was just sort of happenin this moment. And my friend Zach, he. He
actually, he didn't realize that. That I waslying. And he was like, What? It's like, JJ's seen

(05:07):
Lethal Weapon. Well, JJ seen Lethal Weapon. Like,I can see Lethal Weapon. And so his dad's, like,
thinking about. He's like, well, all right, we canwatch Lethal Weapon. So. So we watched Lethal
Weapon, blew my mind. It was just, you know, it'scomedic. It's. It's an action movie. It's, It
also, I think, feel like, was my first,introduction into, like, Los Angeles or just like

(05:27):
this, this place. Is that. That, that to me, itwas like. It was like. That was, you know,
whatever the world of Star wars was, it was like,it's like Los Angeles was. Was that. For me, it
was like, what is this place? And, you know, it'slike, oh, it's crime ridden. I better. I got to go
there. That's. That's. That place is for me.
It's. It wasn't Michigan. That's for sure.

(05:48):
It was not Michigan. It was. It was very, veryUnmichigan. And, and yeah, so that. That movie
just blew my mind. And I remember too, the nextday, when I'm going back home and my dad meets,
Zack's dad in the street. And Zach's dad's like,so the boys. The boys watched Lethal Weapon last
night, but I guess JJ has seen it before. And mydad's just like, he hadn't seen it before. And

(06:09):
Zach's dad's like, well, he has now, but there'sno punishment. It was more just like, oh, okay.
It's like, we've opened that door. Now that dooris open. And then, so now all these movies that,
like, my parents want to see, but it's just like,you know, the radar. There's like, well, the kid.
The kids, can see radar movies now. So.
So at 6, you were watching a Lethal Weapon,clearly. Were you already understanding the world

(06:32):
of story and storytelling? Was that a big deal foryou?
I'm not sure. yeah, it's hard to say. I know thatwhen stepping away from that movie and feeling
like, oh, wow, like, movies are incredible. Thisis something that I want to do. Not necessarily,
like, this is a professional path I want to take,but it's like, this is now my play, and this is

(06:59):
like, what I'm sort of putting these earlycreative pursuits into. So what actually I ended
up doing was. And it's funny because at the time Ididn't know anything what storyboarding was. But I
started like storyboarding my own movies on prayerpaper, you know, and it would be like, I, I don't
even know how much time I'd spend conceiving aconcept. Like I, I doubt I did too much of that,

(07:23):
but I, you know, I pick a title and then I, it'slike, it's like actually like the first page of,
of the storyboard would be like rated R and thenit was like the next page was the title and then
it was like, I don't know how many, like 20, 20sort of storyboarded, scenes that were all
scribbled. It wasn't anything that was, that I puttoo much time into.

(07:44):
But you were making a crude comic book is what youwere doing.
Which is funny because I was never reading comicbooks as a kid. I would collect them because I
heard, you know, the stories of like from my dadabout like, you know, if my mom hadn't thrown out
my comic books, I'd, you know, we'd bemillionaires. But so I was collecting comics just
to think of it as an investment. Even though, youknow, every kid from my generation kept their

(08:08):
comic books because they all heard the story thatyou throw this stuff away, you're not gonna be a
millionaire.
So were you at that time already recognizingcomedy and that you were funny?
Maybe, yeah, I mean I think I was. Yeah. I think Iwas definitely making people laugh.

Steve C (08:26):
Were you a class clown?
Eventually, yeah. Yeah, I'd say, I don't knowabout like around that time. I think I was, I was
a shy in like early elementary before, you know, II guess I made the right friends or kind of grew
up enough to, to be you know, comfortable in myown skin I guess as you know, as an eight year old
or something.
But well you, you, you didn't go into stand upcomedy. You weren't standing up in front of crowds

(08:50):
of people telling jokes at school?
No, no, I wasn't doing that. I wasn't doing that.
You were funny in your head and you could sayprobably funny things to people. So I think a lot
of comedy writers are people that go into lighthearted fare come from that where they're able to
stand among their friends and make them laugh. Ithink that's where a lot of it comes from. so then

(09:11):
you eventually started to write funny articles inhigh school. What attracted you to finally sit
down and write? Because writing is different fromjust joking around with people.
Yeah, well, actually going a little further, Iguess. Back in the past, I was. My second grade
teacher. we started writing. She had us writing,like, our own, like, sort of creative stories in

(09:31):
class, like, I think, you know, most classes do.
And I remember she told my parents at the parentteacher conference. She's like, you know, he. He's
really good at, writing stories. And his storieshave like, a real, like, beginning, middle, end. I
don't know if she was saying, like, they havecharacter arcs. I doubt. I doubt it was going that
deep, but was like, you know, he. He's naturallyreally good at this. So, you know, you guys should

(09:56):
encourage him to do this because. Because this.
This could be, a path for him. Yeah, my. And myparents, you know, were like, all right. Like,
yeah. So then. So then they were always veryencouraging about me writing. And to the point
where it's really. Actually a great story is, It'sreally funny because my dad doesn't even remember
this. I ended up telling him the story, justrecently when, I saw him over Christmas when I was

(10:19):
8 years old. I, came up with, an idea for. Ireally loved the movie Big. And I came up with an
idea for the sequel to Big. And my dad encouragedme. He's like, you know, you should write out your
idea for the movie, and then we should send it to20th Century Fox. I write this letter, and, my dad

(10:43):
takes it with a little letter of his own, sort ofexplaining. It's funny because I actually have it
all sitting right here, because I pulled it outthe other day when I didn't want to talk about
this, and, you know, a little letter being like,you know, my son says he wants to make movies. I
have no idea, like, in what capacity, but, youknow, I think this is a pretty good idea and, you
know, be great to hear anything back, you know,And I think, like, a lot of time went by, like.

(11:07):
Like half a year or something. One day my dadcomes in with the mail, and he's, like, so
excited, and he's like. He's, like, holding outthis. He's, He's like, it's from 20th Century Fox.
And I was like, I. I don't know what that means.
He's like, it's about your movie. Your. Your ideafor Big. I was like, oh, my God. So he rips it
open. He's reading, and he's just, like, beaming.
He's so excited. And, And I was like, so what'swhat's, what's the deal? Like they make movies.

(11:31):
Like, well, no, they're not going to make themovie. But they wrote back and like for me it was
just like, well, they're not going to make themovie. Like, what the hell? Like, so it's like for
me it's funny because it was like I got my firstlike, rejection letter. Ah. You know, at 8, like
trying to pitch a movie, you thought all you.
Had to do is send them a letter and they wereimmediately going to make a movie.
Yeah, yeah, of course. but yeah, this guy, hisname is, F.J. dougherty. He worked in the legal

(11:56):
department. I don't know how many letters he wroteback to aspiring 8 year old, screenwriters. But he
wrote back and wrote back this really kind ofprofessional letter where it was like, we can't
accept your submission because you're notrepresented by a major agency. But keep on

(12:16):
writing, keep doing your thing and then one daymaybe you will be, and then maybe we can hear
pictures from you. Yeah, it was a really, reallycool thing for him to do. And who knows? It may
have changed the course of my life.
It very well might have because what I'm guessingit did is at least it gave you some kind of
feeling like you were being paid attention to ifnothing else. And that's a big deal because a lot

(12:38):
of people aren't paid attention to at all. But at8, you might not have known that difference. You'd
know it today if you were getting nobody payingattention to you. But back then you would have not
known the difference. In fact, you thought theywere going to make the movie. So did you. At what
point did you start to think about screenwritingper se? I mean, the specificity of a discipline.
Called screenwriting through even, even allthrough, like kind of, you know, I guess like

(13:05):
teenage years maybe. it was like I was alwaysthinking of it in terms of like, like, oh, like,
like I'll, I'll be a film critic. Because likethat makes sense to me or whatever. It was like it
wasn't like, oh, like I'm going to pursue this. I,I didn't have any aspirations to act, to really
pursue it at all. Like, even like all through highschool. And then it was like in college I remember

(13:26):
watching the movie Magnolia. and it wasn't just,just the movie, which, which was, you know, I
thought was incredible, but I watched like the,the DVD extras and like all this stuff with like
Paul Thomas Anderson, like, and just watching himand Realizing like, oh, this is just like, this is
just a guy. Like these, like he's more just a guy.

(13:47):
But it was like, it was like, oh, like just realpeople just have these jobs. This is just a job
people have. And so it is something that, youknow, is, is a tough pursuit.
All right. So at some point you make a decision togo off to UCLA and apply to school there. this has
got to be several years after that. Right.
So I think I actually pretty quickly, after havingthat sort of revelation, I was, I was like, all

(14:15):
right, I, I'm gonna go to UCLA film school forscreenwriting. I think at the time it was ranked
the best maybe for screen, for screenwriting inparticular.
It was for a very long time. I'm not so sure it isanymore.
Yeah. Ah, well, they let me in and then, and thenit dropped.
It just wrecked the whole program. Yeah, you beingin it. And they let me in at the same time. And

(14:36):
that really wrecked the program.
Yeah, yeah, it was like, yeah. it was the one, twopunch where you, what do you think you.
Learned there that has stayed with you since.
Because it's now more than a decade later. whatdid you think that they taught you there?
Simple thing of just like learning to generatequickly and just, just knowing. So, you know, we
are on these 10 week quarters and you know, we're,we're pitching ideas to all these professors,

(15:02):
instructors. That first week you hope to getpicked for a class, you get picked in a class and
then by the second week you're just trying tofigure out your idea. And then during that entire
10 week span, it's like you're outlining andwriting an entire script and no one expects that
script to be great when you're done because itkind of can't be. But it's to learn that you are

(15:27):
capable of generating and it's like the act offinishing being such an important part. And
that's, you know, I think learning that, that it'sjust like you, any sort of like two month deadline
you might have in the future on something, it'slike, you know, you know, you know, it's like the
stakes are a little higher, but you know, you knowthat you're capable of that.

(15:47):
so they taught you discipline in that way.

J.J. Nelson (15:49):
Exactly. Yeah.
In Hollywood that's super important because verylittle in Hollywood is. Yeah, go off and take your
time. No, almost everything's on some kind of acrazy deadline.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's important. Deadlinesare important. And so yeah, so just the writing
standpoint, just, just learning to generatequickly and then, and then just, just from the, I

(16:09):
guess, let's say the business standpoint, butmaybe the psychological standpoint, the stuff that
we would learn in Howard Sewers class and that. Iremember one in particular that really stuck with
me and as soon as he said it, I, you know, I waslike, put that in your, in your brain. as, as
gospel, was, the difference between those of youthat go on to have careers and those of you that

(16:33):
don't often, comes down to how well can you handledespair? Because there are so many more downs and
ups. There just are. It's like you get a lot ofno's and you get a lot of almost where it's like
you, you think you have a movie and you gotfinancing and then the rug is pulled out from
under you, and then you know you have nothing.

(16:54):
If you can't handle rejection, you are not likelyto stick around very long, no matter how talented
you are, because you're going to get lots ofrejection. I always say to people, they don't
understand that what you're seeing, as a movie ora TV show is the result of a whole lot of stuff
that's gone before it. And frequently it has to dowith stuff that didn't make it, that eventually

(17:20):
turns into things that give you some kind of athought toward what will make it. And if you think
about people like even Steven Spielberg, arguablythe most successful director of all time, we just
don't know how many projects are given no's to. Wedon't know that what you see are the many projects
he makes, but you don't know all the ones thatdidn't make it. And, that's just the nature of

(17:43):
that beast, is it not?

J.J. Nels (17:44):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Obviously, you don't need to go to school to havea career in Hollywood. It's not a critical thing.
Nobody, I'm going to guess nobody in all of yourtime pitching to various places or working for
various people, no one has ever said to you, oh,where did you go to school? And if they might have
said that to you, it didn't have any impact onwhether they liked you or not or whether they were

(18:05):
going to hire you. So how important do you thinkit is for a person to go to school? Is it helpful,
do you think, for people to go to school to have acareer in Hollywood? Is it useful?
It's certainly useful. I mean, definitely the mostuseful part of it is, the community of people that
you meet when you're, when you're in school. Andlike our program, you know, everybody, at least in

(18:30):
your graduating class, it's, an overstated way toput it, but it's like you're in the trenches
together. You know, it's like all those, those,those like that week one where, where everybody's
pitch, like, stuffed in a room, pitching aninstructor to try to get a spot. It's like, you
know, we're all, we're all trying to get ournumber called and, there's not enough, you know,
numbers, you know, for all of us.

(18:50):
And that's a little bit of a life lesson goinginto it. certainly when you're, you're pitching
because they. Not everything is a gem. That's theproblem. And, and of course, you're then part of
pitching, and we'll talk about that a little morelater. But part of pitching is you could pitch the
same exact thing to 40 people and you might get 38people that think it's okay and two that hate it

(19:14):
and vice versa. All right, so then you eventually,after you leave school, well, and you want. You go
off and win the Samuel Goldwyn, which is a hugedeal. so did that help you get an agent of some
kind?
Samuel Goldin was. That was a great experiencetoo. it was also too, like a bit of a gut check
too. was one of those who were first. you know,there's all these kind of, you know, moments that

(19:35):
happen kind of along the way. And that was, Ithink, after just getting into grad school. That
was the first one where. So that was going into mysecond year. They announced the golden finalists.
I think it hadn't even hit the trades yet. Justgot a call from like, the, you know, the offices
just being, hey, just so you know, you're a goldenfinalist. So you're probably gonna get like, a lot

(19:56):
of phone calls, people reaching, and you'recomfortable if, like, your, your information is.
If anybody asks for it, we can give it out, ofcourse. And then, yeah, I was like, immediately,
that day, it was like, I got off that phone call.
And then phone calls start coming in and emailsstart coming in and just all these, you know,
managers, some agents, a lot of producers, allreaching out, like, wanting, wanting to read the

(20:18):
script. And, you know, the, the thought was, itwas like, wow, like, I've arrived. Like, this is
what life is going to be now. I just. My phone isjust always going to ring and everybody's going to
keep wanting to read what I have. You just. Or atleast me, you know, as a 24 year old kid or
whatever it was at the time. You know, I justfigured, well, everybody's reading the script and

(20:39):
everybody's going to reach out back to me aboutthe script. And you know, a number of them reach
back out, but then a number of them don't. And Ididn't even realize, like, no, you should follow
up with every single person. It was just like, Iwas just so green back then that it was just like,
oh, wow. And then so I did get a manager out ofthat.

(21:01):
and eventually you wind up working for WillFerrell and Adam McKay. And who did you meet
there? You say you met all these comedy titans whoare one or two or three of those folks that you
met.
Well, I mean, that's Rob Riggle in Batman. That'swhere I first met Rob Riegel. it's it was like
every single day. I mean, just, just a simple likeone right here is like one guy just walks in and

(21:22):
it's like, oh, it's citic entertainer. And I'm,and I'm manning like the desk. I'm like the front
desk guy. You know, sometimes just random peoplewalk in and they like, they want to like pitch
Will feral something. And you have to be like, no,man, you can't. Can't. Doesn't really work like
that. You know, other times it's just like youjust see guys just, just come in. You're like, oh,
wow, there's. There's him, there's him. And oneday it was like Cedric the entertainer walked up

(21:43):
the stairs and so I'm not going to be like, oh,hey, who are you? Who are you? It's just like, oh,
they're cedrically entertainment. He walks in, hegoes to the bathroom and he leaves because it's
like he knew. It's like, well, this. GarySanchez's office is there. He's probably driving
around you to go to the bathroom. He doesn't wantto stop somewhere he's recognized. So it's like
he's just gonna go there to go to the bathroom.
Just like, you know, little, little things likethat. Obviously, like, you know, meeting Will

(22:04):
Ferrell and getting to, you know, work for him.
Obviously. I was an intern, so it's like you're,you're essentially, you know, kind of like an
extra assistant for, for these guys while you'reworking there. And you're in your, you know,
manual.
Phones and you're not writing with them, you'renot doing any of that. You're at arm's length. A
little bit.
Yeah. You're doing, I mean doing, doing coverageon scripts for them. Got to watch. They had. When,

(22:26):
when I started doing that. and me and also a UCLAstudent, who I think you definitely know too, at
Jason George. We actually, we started thatinternship together that was like, you know, we
became fast friends and we're just like, oh, likewe should. Like that internship was offered. So me
and him started at the same time. So that was acool thing we got to do.
What do you think you learned being around peoplelike Will Ferrell and Adam McKay? Did you absorb

(22:51):
anything from them that was helpful to you?
I think it was more just realizing like, this iswhat I want to be. Like, this is.

Steve Cu (23:02):
It was a confirmation.
Yeah, yeah. And those guys at the time, I thinkbasically the same age I am now, it's like, so it
was like I was, you know, my mid-20s watchingthese guys do this thing and I'm thinking like,
okay, like I want to be, you know, there by then.
Obviously, like, you know, it's hard to beat thoseguys because those guys are some of the biggest
guys. But it was more just like, like just, justkind of watching their day to day operations

(23:28):
again, like talking about Steven Spielberg, howit's like, you know, you have. There's all these
projects that you don't know that, that he waslike involved with, trying to go. It's like there
was a number of projects there that, you know,that they had on the table that like I thought,
like, oh, this is going to be such a great movie.
And those didn't end up making those. They, theymade this one instead or whatever. And, and even

(23:49):
those guys, you know, running into their ownissues with like, it doesn't matter who they are.
It's like they still have to sell a studio on a,you know, a movie, like a really expensive movie.
You still have to raise unbelievable sums of moneyto make these things. Even on the lower budgets,
you've got to raise huge amounts of money and sothey don't all go, that's, that's a. Just a. For

(24:10):
sure. I'm wondering, are. Do you think of yourselfnow primarily as a screenwriter or are you looking
to do other things? Are you looking to produce?
You looking to direct?
Definitely looking to produce, for sure.
Directing. I was something that, I think back, youknow, when I had those, those early aspirations,
you know, watching, watching Paul Thomas Andersonand being like, oh yeah, I want to do that, I

(24:34):
think at the time then it was like, oh, I'm goingto be writer, director. But then it was like, once
you, once you kind of get out to LA and yourealize how competitive it is and realize, like,
oh, yeah, everybody's trying to do that. It's. Andespecially with, with being like, you know,
someone who was always more of a writer and ismore of a writer, it was like realizing like,

(24:56):
well, that is what I'm, you know, trying to moveforward on. And the directing isn't necessarily
that. but then it was like, you know, being on setfor, for Bad man and just sort of really getting
to like, soak in, like, the whole process. It waslike, oh, no, I absolutely want to do this
someday. I don't think. You know, it's not in likea, you know, an immediate goal by any means. it's

(25:18):
something that. It's just like, you know, keepgleaning more and more and then, it's.
On your list of desires. It's. But it's not. Mostof the time you're. You're sitting around writing
scripts. Right?
But then also, too, it's like, you know, as muchas I, I love to write, I'm also an extrovert and I
like to be around people. And, you know, it'slike, you know, you go to, like, a movie set, and

(25:41):
especially when you're. You're seeing somethingyou wrote come to life, it's just like, you know,
it's hard to beat that. You know, it's hard tobeat that.
How many scripts do you think you wrote before youmanaged to sell something?
Oh, man, it's. I, I have no idea.

Steve Cuden (25:57):
Is it dozens?

J.J. Nelson (25:58):
Yes.
So the listeners need to pay attention to this.
JJ's been knocking around for a while. He'swritten dozens of scripts. What do you think? I
asked this question of a lot of guests. What doyou think makes a good story for you? Good.
Most movies I respond to, I like walking awayfeeling a little differently about life. Based on

(26:24):
the story that I saw.
You'Ve had a cathartic experience and that changesyour perspective.
Yeah, it could be in a small way, but, But, yeah,just, you know, walking away and feeling like I, I
understand, one more smaller piece of this, like,giant thing called life. Because I've, I've. I've
taken in this story that was, put together by 100people all working together.

(26:50):
So the movie has given you a new slant on life andyou see life through a different lens than before.
You saw the movie?
Yeah, yeah. Like a movie, I guess, just a simpleexample. Like, Groundhog Day, which I remember
seeing when it was on theaters right when it cameout, immediately feeling like what got Phil

(27:12):
Connors out of this time loop was just being agood person and having, like, kind of this perfect
day. And I feel like, oh, like the takeaway islike, try to make every day that perfect day in
your life. Like, you know, try to, you know, just,just, just be, be open, be engaged, be, you know,

(27:37):
approach things with intention every single day.
You know, I don't necessarily think I, I walk awaywith that lesson as a kid, but I, I, I watch that
movie and that's, that's, that's the lesson. Itake from it every time I see it.
When you're working, do you work with a certainaudience in mind? Are you thinking about the
audience at all or you're just thinking about yourown thoughts?

(27:58):
always thinking about the audience, for sure.
yeah. So even just going back to, the genesis ofan idea, come up with a number of ideas and then
try to figure out good ideas from bad ideas.
talking about new movie ideas or new TV ideas,whatever it is, figuring out, one, if I can

(28:20):
execute that idea, like, in a valuable way. Two,after that, if, say I feel like I can, it's like,
well, you know, what's the best way into thestory? But then it's really from that point
forward, it's like, okay, who is the audience forthis movie? You have to write something that not
only are you thinking of the audience, but youhave to be a part of that audience. Because, and

(28:43):
that, a lot of times separates ideas that Idiscard from ideas that I move forward on is
because even if I think it's a, if, oh, that's a,that's a really good movie idea. If I don't think
that's a movie that I'm going to line up to see.
Like, like I'm not, I'm, unwilling to go to atheater and spend the money to see it, then I
shouldn't write that.
I think if you write something that is unappealingto you, the writer, it's going to show up in the

(29:09):
work. So it has to be something that you want tosee. It's something you want to enjoy because
you're writing it, not because of you, but becausethat's what you want, as your entertainment.
If you don't love it, people will read it and knowyou don't love it. And it's this weird thing where
it's like. But it just, it will have the stench ofthat on it. Like, it just will.

(29:30):
Do you find yourself writing every single.
Day, day to day? Absolutely. M. You know, I wakeup very early. I just, I get excited. I, I know
that if I get up and get right to it, one, it, itgets me going for the rest of the day. So it's.

(29:51):
Instead of like having to be like, all right, Igot up, I ate breakfast, I, you know, walked the
dogs, and now I'm going to sit down to do it. It'slike if I've gotten, up and I've immediately
gotten to work, I've already like, you know,started winning the day in some way. And then it
also just gets your, your, your brain fresh andyour gears turning for the rest of the day. I like

(30:12):
to write every day. And then certain times when,if the thing's going on or, you know, trips that
have to be made, it's like, you know, you kind oflose your identity for a little bit because, you
know, it's, it's, it's. It's what you are. Andthen when you take yourself away from that, you
know, you, you. It takes, it takes a while to, to,to kind of break.
But you get excited in the morning to write. It'snot something you have to drag yourself to do.

(30:33):
Not at all. Yeah, yeah. Not. Don't have to drag atall. yeah, now I get excited. I, I wake. Yeah, I
wake up normally in like the 4 o' clock hour. and,yeah, it's like one thing that you. I could, I
could stay in bed, even though I probably wouldn'tfall back asleep anyway. or I could come out and I
could start writing and I could possibly come upwith the best joke I've ever written. That is

(30:55):
something that is quoted, you know, over time.
Like, you know, is that likely? No, but like, isit possible? Yes, it is possible. So I, you know,
if it's the choice between, try to get a littlemore sleep or maybe you could do something
amazing, then just like, why not pick amazing?
So you're hoping to capture lightning in a bottleall the time. the question for me is you're out

(31:21):
about in the world. It's not like you're stuck inyour house virtually 24 7. And so how do you
handle an idea, an epiphany, a joke? Somethingcomes to you in a flash. How do you record that?
What do you do?
I'm using my notes app. All the time. But alsotoo, it's, you know, I don't wake up and come up
with like, oh, that's a funny joke. It's, it'scoming. Getting down, sitting out the keyboard and

(31:45):
jumping into the scene of whatever I'm writing. Iknow it's something that I think it was like
Quentin Tarantino, I think, was maybe the firstperson that I heard, said it, talking about how,
you know, as a writer, screenwriter, it's likeyou're. You don't feel like you're actually
writing the, the characters. It's like you're.
You're a court stenographer just writing whatthey're saying. It's like they actually are alive

(32:09):
to you and they're talking back and forth. And sothese jokes that I'm talking about, it's not like,
like, oh, I've crafted this great joke. It's likethis, this moment of dialogue sparked by the line
that came before it from somebody. You know, it'slike one thing, but.
You could also get the premise for a joke. Justdriving, along the freeway and suddenly you have a

(32:35):
thought about how to do a joke. And some people, Isay this to emphasize for those that are
struggling to become professional writers,screenwriters in particular, that you want to have
something around you, be it your phone, a pad ofpaper or something to record this so that you
don't forget it. Because what will happen is mostof the time you'll forget it. That's just the way

(32:56):
it is.
Yeah, no, I was always the pad and paper guy untilthe phones made it so easy. Yeah, it's one of the
only things I like about that phone.
All right, so let's talk for a little bit aboutBadman, which is your first produced credit, which
is a really cool thing. Tell the listeners whatBadman is about. Pitch the story to us.
writing from theme is an important part of, ofcreating a story. because I think it, it actually

(33:25):
gives you sort of like, it's your guide for likehow to move through the story. So it's like you're
telling this story, of like the events of themovie, but it's like you're trying to say
something. So the theme of this movie, whichactually wasn't something I came up with, it was
m. The co writer on there director, MikeDelaverde, he was the one that, that first, came
up with, with this idea of something that weshould work on together is like, can, can a, good

(33:51):
man. It's like you Know, stop, stop a bad guy orlike, do you have to be a bad man yourself to be
able to stop, stop the bad guys? So that, that waslike the, the story that like underneath the
surface. And we told it, we took there's a coupletrue stories that we kind of piecemeal together
into this thing, about it's like this small town,like all sorts of small towns that get overrun by

(34:18):
meth distributors and small town policedepartments that just don't have the manpower to
handle it. so this was a story where it was likethese guys who were small town cops waiting for
Federal health to come in. It was never coming in.
And then one day the sky blows into somethingsound like, like kind of like an old western hero.

(34:39):
and he's like, hey, I'm here to help you with yourproblem. You know, I'm, I'm wanting on a big bust
in, in two days. Like it's like, this is like justlike the bus he's doing on the way to the bigger
bust. So, you know, we got two days, let's get towork. And I, and I operate, you know, under you
know, I, I Homeland Security, you know, dea, likeall those things, are covered under what I do. So

(35:02):
we don't have to worry about Miranda rights, wedon't have to worry about warrants. We know who's
doing it. So we just bust in and we take them out.
And all these kind of wide eyed yokels are like,wow, this is amazing. except the one kind of
golden boy in town who thinks of himself as a heroof the town, even though he's kind of the

(35:22):
laughingstock. then all of a sudden there's thisbig dog who showed up and kind of on his turf. And
the power struggle between the.
Two of them, well that's basically the story. Hecomes in and takes over. He basically takes the
case. He basically takes it all over and showsthem all up. And we're not going to give away any

(35:45):
of the twist to it, but there's a big twist thathappens in that character, which I think was a
very good one, and was very surprising when itcomes, which is a good thing. Well, you know, when
you think about it, yeah, it made perfect sense,but it was a surprise when it, when it happens.
How long did you spend working on it? How long didit take you to write it?
So we, we first started working on that togetherin summer of 2018. And then pandemic hit and then

(36:14):
we, we just, we basically weren't like. Like a lotof people weren't working together and we, you
know, we work together in the room together. Wesit there, and, then we picked it up, shortly
after that. And I want to say we finally finisheda draft that we were happy with by the end of
2021. and then it was like, all right, moving onto try to get it made. I mean, we specifically

(36:40):
wrote a movie that was relatively inexpensive.
You're more or less in one town. You don't go intoa whole lot of locations.
Yeah, yeah, we specifically. Yeah, it's like, youknow, it's like when the location is, or you're
setting for the movie is a town that's supposed tolook dilapidated, you're already kind of off to
the races, looking for, you know, something thatisn't supposed to look flashy.

(37:03):
That's one of the secrets, I believe, of lowbudget filmmaking, independent filmmaking, is that
you, cater the script to the budget, not the otherway around. That, you know, you're going to have a
very limited amount of money. And so findingsomething that's in a limited location so you
don't have a lot of company moves and that sort ofthing. I assume that there's a. Probably a bunch

(37:26):
of shooting that went on in that movie whereyou're. You're in one location that you've managed
to make into multiple locations.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. One buildingwas, ah, the police station. It was the hospital.
It was it was the like, interrogation. It m. Was.
It was. We. Yeah, we did, we did a number of, anumber of locations in this one, like, old

(37:52):
abandoned building, that felt haunted. And Yeah,so it was like we finished the script and we, In
one thing too, obviously, it's like, you know, yougot a. One thing you want to do to get things
moving is get a director on it. And Mike decidedhe was like, you know, even wanting to direct for
a while and some of the stuff he had tried todirect, it was like the budget would just kind of
get too big or stars would drop off. And it waslike, all right, so here's something that's small

(38:15):
and manageable that we can move forward and if wefind the financing for it, you know, hopefully we
can make. Make the movie that, that we wrotethrough. Went to a lot of companies, a lot of
places, you know, didn't get it. You know, it wasfunny. One of the, the best passes was, I don't
know what company it was. And not that I would sayif I did. I think Belfast was one of like the, the

(38:38):
kind of big movies that was out at the time, sortof the big awards movie. And, and there was the
response back to the Bad man script was. I thoughtit was going to be more like Belfast. And it was
like, well, yeah, no. so then, yeah, eventuallyfound, these producers, ah, this, this company,
Hemlock Circle. We had another producer already onit who was helping us find financing and helped us

(39:00):
find these producers named Brian Levy. And thenthose guys, they got the script, they thought it
was funny. They, they wanted to do it and theydidn't want to change anything.
So. So they didn't put you through multipledrafts?

J.J. Ne (39:10):
Nope, not at all. Yeah.
How, how many, how many drafts had you writtenbetween you and Michael to get it to where it was
ready to show to people?
Most people, ourselves included for sure, spent alot of time on that first act because it's like,
you know, you have to get the first act right.
There's so much exposition you have to getthrough. There's, you know, so many characters you
have to define everything you have to set up thatit's like, that has to be really good before you

(39:34):
even know if you have something that's, that'sworth moving on from. so. So we definitely rewrote
the first act a lot. And then I would say therewasn't a lot of wholesale, you know, big kind of
game changing, changes that we made along the way.
But for, for what reason? For money reasons or forother reasons.
Yeah, so. So really the only real, draft that wedid where we had to change things and, you know,

(40:01):
kill our babies was, was, was for, the productiondraft. because, you know, we didn't. We, you know,
we wrote this relatively inexpensive movie, but,you know, the budget we had was $2 million. And
there's a lot of action in this movie and it's,it's expensive.
And so even with $2 million reality set in and youwent, whoops, we can't do everything that we want

(40:23):
to do.
We can't do everything. And yeah, and then youhave to. Some of the stuff, that, you know, you
unfortunately have to, you have to cut characters,you know, which is like, you know, these
characters that, you know, on a script that you'vebeen working on for years, it's like these feel
like real people to you. So, you know, so yeah, Ihad to, had to cut some characters we really
liked. one of, one of Those characters was. We hada dispatcher in the. That's part of the group in

(40:48):
the police station. And she was really funny.
Rita, ah, Grace, this, you know, this kind ofBible thumping Christian woman. and it was good,
it was a good character. But, it was like we justdidn't have the money to keep all the characters
and choose one that went. But it was because wewere able to get Rob Riggle for the chief and it
was like, well, we can actually merge hercharacter with his character because his

(41:11):
character, if you see the movie, he's like thisold, like Reagan Republican who's actually like,
you know, he's the chief of police there, but he'sactually like the biggest coward of the bunch. and
then so it just sort of made sense. Like, well,her stuff, some of her lines are so funny, that we
kind of repurpose them and have that be a part ofRiggle's character. And you know, it's like when

(41:33):
you got Riggle, it's like, use them as much as youcan.
Well, and it's kind of amusing because he's one ofthe bigger humans in the movie, physically big.
And he's a former Marine.
So like this guy was pulling people out of rubble,on 9 11. And you know, he's like a genuine hero.
And he's playing this car, which I know he reallyloved to do. So he's like, he doesn't get to do

(41:57):
this kind of stuff and.

Steve (41:59):
Little bit of a chicken.
Yeah, yeah. And he, he loved to be able to dothat.
So how important was it to the, to the actualfilming, of the movie that you went out and
secured a known star being Seann Williams Scott?
That's. Yeah, that was a, that was important. Andactually for for a really long time, all we had

(42:22):
was I think a million dollars of the budget. Andwe had Sean William Scott and he stayed on and he
was like, we're gonna do this movie, we're gonnamake it happen. And he was, you know, patient with
it and we had to, you know, work on some stuff. Imean, he had, it was like he was available and
then he had this. He had a series on Fox that itwas like, well, we, you know, we gotta kind of

(42:43):
wait and see what happens with this because ifthis show gets picked up, then, you know, the
window in which like, you know, he can shoot thismovie, you know, narrows or closes. Yeah. And
eventually, yeah, it's like the timing worked outand yeah. The fact having him attached was he.
Hoping that the movie would help to shift hisiconic stature as Stifler from American Pie.

(43:06):
I, you know, I think. I think so. I mean, I knowhe loves, he loves that character, you know, and
he, he always jokes. Remember, he made a jokelike, you know, he was a guy that, like, wanted to
be considered for, like, Marvel movies and stuff.
I mean, he said as much, and he's just. He, youknow, he hasn't. Hasn't been on those lists. And I
think, like, the opportunity to kind of show thathe's. He's got that. And the guy's. The guy's

(43:28):
actually got, you know, he's got real dramaticrange. I mean, I think it was, you know, American
Pie was the movie that launched him, and he'sclearly like, you know, really gifted at comedy,
but he, you know, his career could have gone adifferent way, and people could have never
realized how funny he was, and instead he couldhave been funny, you know, in a sort of late
career movie. And people are like, holy shit, thisguy's funny. Who knew? You know, but it just

(43:50):
happened to be American Pie that really. That madehim a star.
I think one of the lessons for the listeners inall this is it is important in terms of selling
your movie, especially after you've made it. It'simportant that you have some kind of known
something in. It usually doesn't happen everytime, and there are examples that defy that. But

(44:12):
it's really helpful when you have sort of a genremovie like you do with, Bad man, that you put
someone in it that has a name that can carry intonot just America, but perhaps overseas. and
that's. That's what you did. I think that's areally clever thing.
Yeah. And I think people. People want to see himin this type of role. You know, it gives him the

(44:33):
opportunity to. Yeah. To stretch beyond what, whathe's known for. I wouldn't even call it his
comfort zone because, you know, I don't. I don'tknow if he'd look at it that way. but he gets to.
He gets to. He gets to do that. And he also, too,in this movie, you know, a lot of times it's like,
you know, he's. He's playing it understated. Andthen you have these other big comedy moments where

(44:54):
all of a sudden, like, the Stifler pops out, andit actually is. You get sort of a bigger reaction
from people because they're like, oh, there's thething.
You know, I love the phrase the stiffler pops out.

J.J. Nelson (45:07):
Pops out.
So how many days did it take to shoot the movie?
So we shot, I want to say total, it was about 22,maybe 23. With a pickup day.

S (45:19):
So fast. That's a fast shoot.
It's fast. It was really quick. Yeah. so when wedidn't even know shot it, and it was like a month
before we started, we didn't know that we weregoing to be starting. It was all sudden,
everything aligned, and it was like, we're goingto be shooting this thing in December and January
in, Alabama, with a. With a break in between forthe holidays. So it was like Thanksgiving weekend.

(45:44):
It was like we, you know, we had a productiondraft to do and we had to, like, figure out all
the places we could cut to get this thing ready.
And then like a week later, I think Mike wasalready there for pre production, but it was like,
you know, it was like him, the, like, you know,location, scout and, I think maybe the line
producer. And, you know, we're supposed to beshooting in a week, and then it's like, it's like,

(46:09):
well, where all the people are we really doingthis? And I didn't even end up flying in. It
wasn't until, I think the Friday before we startedon a Monday, that it was like, this is definitely
happening, and now it's time to get your flightand come out. And I flew in literally the night
before we started. And then, we hit the groundrunning early that next day.
Well, I think a lot of. A lot of productions arepanics all the way through.

(46:34):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, you got to move.
And there's no, you know, there's no, secondguessing. No.
And once that train starts rolling down thetracks, get out of the way, you know, it's going
to happen. And once it does, you, there's nostopping it, really, unless something seriously
goes wrong. But hopefully that doesn't happen. Andit doesn't happen most of the time. What would you

(46:55):
say were the biggest challenges in the production?
Was it time? Was it something else?
An enormous challenge, which is kind of where mymind's going is we, you know, we lost Chance
Perdomo, after he finished principal photography.
he's the third lead of the film.
He was killed in a crash, right?
Killed in the crash. yeah, just, couldn't believeit. I mean, the guy was, on his way to having,

(47:17):
like, an enormous career and took. And took therole we wrote and, just knocked it out of the
park, in ways we could never imagine. and we losthim. And then we still had more shooting to do.
How did you handle that? What did you do?
So this was after principal photography was doneand we still had scenes that we needed to, to pick

(47:38):
up. there's like three pretty major scenes thatwe, we had to shoot, back in la. And And yeah, I
mean we had to I mean we had to write him out ofthese scenes. which is one. It's just like, I mean
emotionally it's tough, like so tough, to do. Andand then also in you know, these individual
scenes, like two of them, it was like they arescenes where there is no way for his character to

(48:03):
not be there. So you are you are findingconvenient ways to, to remove him from having, I
guess, agency in the scene. and then, you know,and then you're, and then going on through post
production, you know, it's like, you know, you'refamiliar with, with I know you're familiar with

(48:24):
adr, your listeners are. So it's like. And you goin and especially in comedy you do a lot where you
come back and you're re recording you know,dialogue that you didn't quite pick up, because of
sound, and, or you're trying alternate dialogue oryou see little, especially in comedy, little
moments where it's like we can work in anotherjoke here this, this person's got their back to

(48:45):
the camera so they can effectively say somethingthat you won't realize wasn't said in the moment
because you're not seeing their mouth move. Andyou know, all the actors on the movie, get brought
in and they get, they get these second chances todo other, you know, versions of their lines and
they get to come in with material of their own.

(49:05):
They get to hear us rewrite new material for themto try out. And and Chance, you know, didn't,
didn't get that opportunity.
So how did you do that? What did you do? Get asound alike actor?
No, we just, we. Everything in there is, is, iseverything we had from him. so he, yeah. And then,
Well, until, until you told me this just now, Ididn't notice that. So that's a good thing.

(49:28):
Yeah. And also too, it's, it's like he's soincredible in the movie and just, just an
incredible guy. yeah, he could have been even moreimpressive, you know, in the movie because he
would have had all these extra things he couldhave done and he didn't get to do that. And, you
know, all the challenges that come with, making amovie, which are many and, you know, would have

(49:49):
had a long list, but, I mean, I think nothing,nothing closer to this. Well, what.
What do you think that you learned in the wholeprocess that you wish to repeat over time?
So we did. There's a lot of improv in the movie.
and we had, you know, some really great improv,actors, Andre Highland, Caitlin Doubleday. And
bringing in people like that who can take. Takesomething that we wrote that we thought was pretty

(50:16):
funny on its own and just blast it in the nextstratosphere and. And really just make. Really
make us look better than we should look becausethey were so committed and fearless.
So you would look for actors who can. Plus workwell.
Yeah, and just in letting. Especially with comedy,just like letting people. Mike one, thing that

(50:38):
was. He was just so, so smart about doing. It wassuch a great way to do things. It was, you know,
he made the hires, you know, department heads, andhe made, you know, obviously approved all the
actors. And it was like, well, now they've beenhired, and now they're gonna do their thing and
I'm not gonna medal. So, you know, you. You make ahire and you let that person do what they do, and,

(51:01):
then you take it from there.
That's a really critical decision to make, whichis you hire people for what it is that, you know
they're capable of doing and let them do it. Andthe only reason why you adjust them at all is that
it's not working for the whole. Otherwise you letthem go. I think that's a really very smart way to

(51:23):
play it, because then you're not restrictinganybody. You're letting them do what you hired
them to do. So that's then on you to cast well orto hire someone in a position well and not hire
someone who's not capable of doing it well. I havebeen having just a really fascinating, fun
conversation. We're going to wind the show down alittle bit. And I'm wondering, jj, in all of your

(51:45):
experiences, can you share with us a story that'seither weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or just
plain funny?
A while back, this was actually 2017 and 18, I wasended, up doing a, project, being brought in on a
project to write for Jake Paul, which I don't. Idon't imagine there's a lot of overlap in the

(52:06):
story. Beat Jake, Paul, like an audience might be.
You might be surprised you might be surprised.
Maybe. Yeah. I mean, he's out there. so, yeah, hewas. He was just this. This sort of big kind of
Internet star who's now turned into, like, aboxer. But, so back in 2017, these producers

(52:27):
reached out to me, Alex and Doug, all five of thefifth entertainment, with saying, like, oh, I
think Jake. I don't know if you're familiar withJake Paul, but I think he's interested in this
project. And they mentioned this project that Ihad with him in the past. he's like, would you.
Would you meet with him on. I was like, oh, yeah,sure. Like, and I'll. I'll. I'll meet with
anybody, and get over there, meet with him, findout that actually he's not interested in this

(52:50):
project at all. He's looking for somethingcompletely different. But I'm like, m. I'm all in.
He's going to finance the thing. Like, I'm. I'min. Ah. And during this time, it was like, he's.
He's. They're living. He's living in this. Thiscrazy house with, like, 20 other, like, social
media stars, and they're just, like, wreakinghavoc. And they have, like, it's essentially

(53:12):
Beatlemania outside. Just all these teenagers,even, like, younger kids with their parents just,
like, mobbing the area outside. And every day thatwas. We'd have to go in there to meet with him.
The very first time I went there for a meetingwith him, and as soon as I walk outside, I am just
bombarded, with deafening booze. And I am just,like, stunned. What's going on? And I realized

(53:37):
everybody out there on this lawn and in the streetare all booing me because I was not the guy that
they wanted to see. They wanted to see Jake Paulstep out of the house. They saw this guy. They
didn't know who the hell he was, and they weredisappointed, and they wanted to let him know that
we do not want to see your face right now. And Iwalked through this crowd of people booing me.

(53:59):
And, it was amazing. And it's just sort of likeone of those moments where you're just like, wow,
this is nothing I ever expected to have happen,but it's a great, weird life moment.
Well, jj, I hope that never happens for you again,but you're in show business, and it's possible.
Yeah, I can take it this time. I'll be ready forit.

(54:19):
You've now had the experience of being booed by acrowd. All right, so Last question for you today,
jj. you've already shared with us a prettysignificant amount of, very good and excellent
advice throughout the whole show. But I'mwondering if you have a single solid piece of
advice or a tip that you like to share with thosewho are starting out in the business or maybe
they're in a little bit, trying to get to thatnext level.

(54:42):
Well, I think, definitely a very important thingis, to really love the actual work of whether it's
writing, whatever the pursuit is, creativepursuit, just loving the work itself, everything
else that kind of comes with it can be a drag.
There's ups and downs. So loving the work, andalso just if you're kind of moving forward or

(55:03):
moving up the ladder, just try to find actionablethings to, to move forward on. So if. If you're
just starting out and you're just trying it, thenjust spend as much time writing as you can. If you
know, you know some people, you give them yourmaterial and get feedback on it. If you, you know,
work with actors and then you like them, it'slike, try to do something more with them. It's

(55:25):
like finding out what's, was actionable in movingforward wholeheartedly on that.
I think that that is extremely wise advice becauseif you're in it for the parties or the money or
for the fame or whatever those extra things are,you might find yourself in trouble pretty early
on. if you're in it because you just love to workon it and write movies or TV or just be a writer,

(55:51):
period, then you're going to last for a very longtime because that's what you do whether they're
paying you or not. And in fact, I think one of thethings that I hear repeatedly, from successful
writers is they would write even if they're notbeing paid. And frankly, you have to spend a lot
of time writing speculative stuff. So, yeah, youbetter like it or it may not be so much fun. J.J.

(56:16):
nelson, this has been a fantastic show today, andI, I can't thank you enough for your time, your
energy and your wisdom. And, you know, I wish youextremely well going forward on selling many more
projects.
Thank you, Steve. It's been great catching up.
Been too long.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please

(56:36):
take a moment to give us a comment, rating, orreview on whatever app or platform you're
listening to. Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is
available on all major podcast apps and platforms,including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify,
iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until nexttime, I'm Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be

(57:03):
unforgettable.