Leslie Rasmussen, TV Writer, Author-Episode #398

Leslie A. Rasmussen wrote TV comedies for folks like Gerald McRaney, Burt Reynolds, Roseanne Barr, Norm McDonald, and Drew Carey, while working on popular sit-coms such as Major Dad, Roseanne, ALF, The Wild Thornberrys, Sweet Valley High, Evening Shade, Norm, and The Good Life.

After leaving the TV industry to raise her boys, Leslie obtained a master's degree in nutrition and ran her own business for ten years.

She’s been published over twenty times in the Huffington Post and speaks on panels discussing female empowerment.

Leslie’s debut novel, After Happily Ever After, has won over fifteen awards, and her second novel, The Stories We Cannot Tell, has won eleven awards.

Her latest novel, When People Leave, was released in May 2025. I’ve read When People Leave and can tell you it’s a highly engaging, superbly crafted tale about death, grief, and the unraveling of a family mystery that involves three sisters going on the road together, all told with a light touch and great heart.

Episode Transcript

Steve Cu (00:00):
On today's Story Beat.

(00:01):
Don't just sit down and write a book. It's justnot going to work. The best thing to do is take
the smallest steps and write a little scene aboutsomething. You don't have to have the whole book.
You don't have to even know what it's about. Justthe way I did it. You just create a character and
just write scenes with this character whether itshows up in the book or not, because it will get
your creativity going.

(00:24):
This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden a podcast forthe creative mind. Story Beat explores how masters
of creativity develop and produce brilliant worksthat people everywhere love and admire. So join us
as we discover how talented creators find successin the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

(00:48):
Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.
Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We're comingto you from the steel City, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My guest today, Leslie A. Rasmussen,wrote TV comedies for folks like Gerald McCraney,
Burt Reynolds, Roseanne Barr, Norm MacDonald andDrew Carey while working on popular sitcoms such

(01:13):
as Major Dad, Roseanne, alf, the WildThornberries, Sweet Valley High, Evening Shade,
Norm and the Good Life. After leaving the TVindustry to raise her boys, Leslie obtained a
master's degree in nutrition and ran her ownbusiness for 10 years. She's been published over
20 times in the Huffington Post and speaks onpanels discussing female empowerment. Leslie's

(01:37):
debut novel, After Happily Ever after, has wonover 15 awards and her second novel, The Stories
We Cannot Tell, has won 11 awards. Leslie's latestnovel, When People Leave, was released in May
2025. I've read when People Leave and can tell youit's a highly engaging, superbly crafted tale
about death, grief and the unraveling of a familymystery that involves three sisters going on the

(02:03):
road together, all told with a light touch andgreat heart. So for all those reasons and many
more, it's a great honor for me to welcome theoutstanding award winning writer Leslie Rasmussen
to story BE today. Leslie, thanks so much forjoining for having me. Oh, it's a great pleasure,
believe you. Uh, so how old were you going back intime when you first started thinking about words

(02:26):
and writing and the entertainment industry? Whendid you start thinking about all this?
From the time I was very young, living in LosAngeles. I loved the entertainment industry. I
knew that's what I wanted to do. I just didn'tknow what I wanted to do in it. So I started out
acting for a little while and then I went tocollege and when I graduated, I got a job at what

(02:50):
was MTM Productions. Mary Tyler Moore. I was anintern there. Then they hired me. I worked all
over the studio before I got a job as an assistanton Hill Street Blues. And while I was there, I
thought, oh, um, now I'm going to be a lineproducer. And there weren't that many women line
producers. And there were some great men therethat took me around and let me learn all kinds of

(03:12):
things. And. And during that time, I was also thesecond Newhart show, the one in

Steve C (03:17):
the inn called Newhart.
Newhart, right, exactly. Was being shot on thelot, and I had a lot of friends there, so I'd go
hang out. And I found that comedy writers werejust fun to be around. I loved the. The whole
thing just. It just made me glow. So I startedwriting scripts at my job at Hill Street Blues. I

(03:39):
was writing sitcoms, and during all the time I hadoff.
Okay, so you didn't start writing till a littlebit later in life. It wasn't like you were writing
when you were five years old.
Yes and no, I wasn't. I, um, kept a journal. Iwrote a lot of stories, but I wasn't thinking
about it as a job at all. Um, I used to lovewriting just sarcastic, humorous letters to my

(04:01):
parents when I was away or whatever. So I wroteall the time. I just didn't think of it as a
career.
Well, so you alluded to comedy writers and how funthey are. They're also usually a pretty crazy
bunch at the same time. And I think that's whatmakes them fun, is they don't think like everybody
else thinks.
That's really true. And when you're in the room,stuff that's said is just, you know, it would

(04:25):
never go in a script. It's so far off the wall.
But that's what makes it fun.
Well, uh, you know, and when you get a group of,you know, frequently, it was men in the old days.
Of course, there are a lot more women now, but,uh, you'd get a group of people in a room together
for 10 or 12 hours a day. Um, it's going to get alittle nutty after a while.
It does. And I will say there were not a lot ofwomen like you said, but the women were more

(04:51):
competitive than the men were.
They had to be. And that's been true in so manydifferent kinds of professions, but particularly
in the writing business in Hollywood, women havehad to be super aggressive to get anywhere.

Leslie Rasmussen (05:03):
Exactly.
The truth is, the men have to be aggressive, too,but the women have to be extra aggressive.
Yeah. Now there's way more women running studiosand networks, and so it's a lot different than it
was. But at the time, yeah, I mean, I had an. Iwas meeting with agents at one point, and I went
into an agency and the agent said to me, I reallylike your writing, but I have too many people like

(05:27):
you in my stable.
Too many people like you. What does that mean?
I just walked out after a few minutes because Iwas like, what does that mean? And how insulting.
And I think he just meant, I have too many womencomedy writers and, you know, so I don't need
another one. I don't know why he met with me inthe first place.
Well, that's always been the puzzle for me aboutHollywood. As, you know, as we've chatted a little

(05:51):
bit ahead of the show, I also was out there for along time, and I've never quite understood some of
the attitudinal things that go on in Hollywood,especially with the representatives in the world,
because some of them treat the, uh, their. Theirclients like some form of, you know, product or
cattle. It's not like they're dealing with humans.

(06:11):
They're dealing with some kind of object.
Which is mostly because I think agents don't. Thewriters, the creative part, and the agent is the
business part. And they look at you like you are aproduct, and they just have to send you out and
try to get you a job. So you really are a productto them. And they have a certain amount of
products, and they try to get everybody jobs.
And really, quite too frequently, the artists, thewriters and the producers and the directors, they

(06:39):
don't understand the business end of the businessbefore they get in it. That's not what they're
focused on. And so they're at the mercy of thosepeople who are the business heads.
Exactly. And you learn a lot over the years,though.
So as a kid, what were you watching? Were youwatching comedies as a kid? Were you a funny kid?
I, you know, I don't consider myself funny excepton paper. I'm not somebody who's, like, really

(07:00):
super outgoing and just like, can, um, off thecuff, say whatever. That's just not who I am.

Steve Cuden (07:06):
I can be quick.
My father was very quick and had a very dry,sarcastic sense of humor. I'm the one in the
family that always got his jokes. So he loved tokind of like, whisper things to me, and it was
fun, but I just. That's just not who I really am.
So you were his great audience?
Oh, yeah, I was his great audience for sure.

(07:27):
It's always, uh, in my life, I've always hadpeople that I've glommed onto who were my great
audience. So I understand that feeling. Because ifyou're telling your best what you think are your
best, cleverest, wittiest things to someone andthey're not getting it and they're not laughing,
you're not gonna hang around them very long.
Exactly. And my father loved my humor too, so itwas really fun.

(07:48):
So at what point, as you were writing scripts onHill Street Blues that were comedy scripts, not
dramas, at what point did you think to yourself, Ithink I am good enough to be produced?
Honestly, I thought it pretty quick, which is justfunny because, ah, I'm very hard on myself. But I
wrote so many spec scripts. I mean, I wroteSeinfeld and Golden Girls and Newhart. I wrote a

(08:14):
ton of spec scripts. And the more I wrote, theeasier it got for me. And. And I also, when I was
a kid, I loved tv and I loved, like, the MaryTyler Moore show and all those shows. And at the
time, you know, we didn't have video, VCRs and allthat kind of stuff, so I would audiotape them and
I would listen to them over and over and overagain just for fun, not thinking about that. So

(08:36):
later, when I decided to go into tv, I did that. Itaped all these shows and I just kept listening to
the rhythms and how it worked. And I think thatreally helped me learn how to write screenplays.
What a great lesson for those that are listeningto this show. If you want to really learn how to
get the rhythm and timing of comedy, it's oftenbetter to listen to it unless it's a, you know,

(08:59):
unless it's a slapstick movie or TV show. But ifit's something that's verbal, a play or whatever,
listening to it but not watching it can be very,very instructive as to how to write the thing
that's, you know, it's hard enough to do. Um, doyou prefer writing prose, which you've gotten into
mostly over the last, as opposed to writingscreenplays, or do you wish you were still writing

(09:22):
screenplays?
I wanted to go back into screenplays, but it justwas not going to be possible. I'd been out for too
many years and, you know, even getting an agent atthat point. And every half the people I knew were
out of the business by that point. By the time Iwould have gone back. But I love writing dialogue.
So you read my book, it's a lot of dialogue. Theprose Part is the hard part for me, because when

(09:45):
you're in tv, you're really not writing that.
That's the director or the prop master orwhatever. And so I had to teach myself how to do
that. And when I was. When I wrote. I wrote one ofthe Wild Thornberries, which was completely
different than anything I'd ever written.

St (09:59):
Yes. Because it's animation.
Uh, they also gave me notes to teach me how towrite the animation. Because you're telling the
characters what to do and you're describingscenes. So I think that helped a little bit.
To be clear for the listeners. When you write ascreenplay, you're not really filling in all of
the blanks. You're sort of indicating a little bitwhat happens. And then it's left up to the

(10:20):
craftsman people, the director of photography, thedirector, the art director, the makeup people, the
costume people. It's up to them to fill in thoseblanks. But what you're saying, which is true as a
novelist or prose writer, you have to provide allthat. Which is interesting, because you got that
lesson as you were talking about the WildThornberries. Uh, as you know, I've written close

(10:41):
to 90 cartoons. And you are actually writing astoryboard, as opposed to not filling in the
blanks. You have to fill in the blanks as a prosewriter. It's a. It is a little more daunting, I
think, to be a writer, but I think it's easier ina way, because it's not. You don't have to be as
succinct.
That's true. And writing books, I mean, I read aton of books, and the one thing that people have

(11:07):
said about my books in reviews and things likethat is that they love the dialogue. Because I've
gotten to know the characters really well, whichis what you have in television is you get to know.
I mean, they have actors, so you kind of do that.
But dialogue helps. You really get to know people.
And you clearly, in the book, uh, you clearlywrite funny dialogue. It's funny.

Lesli (11:27):
That's what's fun for me.
And so that takes you back to writing screenplays,and yet without having to write a screenplay.
Exactly. I can still use that.
And beautifully. You don't have to go through theprocess that a screenwriter goes through of trying
to sell it and pitch it to everybody and wait forpeople to give you notes and wait for them to rip

(11:47):
it apart and rewrite it and all those things thathappen on a TV show, right?
Well, yes and no. I mean, I do give it to aprofessional Editor.

Steve Cuden (11:54):
Mhm.
To let them give me whatever notes they give me.
Um, but yes, that's probably true. I mean, I'vepublished in so many different ways, from hybrid
to traditional to self publishing. And so you doget a different thing from each person that you
publish with.
And you would. If you gave that. If you gave yourbook to 20 editors, you'd get 20 different edits.

(12:16):
Yes, and that's why I don't. A lot of people willgive it to beta readers and give a ton. With my
first book, I gave it to two people that I trustedthe most. One was an author and one was, uh, an
executive at a company. And I knew that she readtons and tons of scripts, so I knew she knew how
story worked, so I gave it to just them. But sincemy first book, I don't do that anymore. I just

(12:40):
give it to professional editors. Just because youcan get too many people telling you one thing and
then somebody else contradicts that and thenyou're all confused.
Uh, that's absolutely true. So you don't work in awriter's group or anything like that?
I don't. I don't usually read my stuff to anybodyexcept for myself. And my husband will read it

(13:02):
most of the time too. And just. He's really goodat grammar and editing like that, like cutting
things. He's really good at cutting, you know,where he'll say, you don't need this, or you said
this too many times or whatever. So I'll give itto him first and then I'll go to a professional
editor.
Well, we should say that your husband is aprofessional writer as well.
Yes, he's an executive producer writer.
So he understands how to write and he understandsstory. And that would be very helpful to get his

(13:26):
feedback.

Leslie Rasmussen (13:27):
Yeah.
But correct me if I'm wrong, there's a little bitof a quandary, uh, if it's your spouse, because
you are hopeful that they give you positive anddecent criticism and they're not holding back on
it because they're your spouse.
He doesn't. I mean, he's really good. He likes mywriting, you know, I mean, he's seen it for many,

(13:47):
many years. But, uh, he also is really good aboutsaying, you know, if I say, but I like that part,
he'll say, well, you can keep it, but I'm justtelling you why it doesn't work. I'll be like,
okay, it's my choice. But he's, you know what?
He's usually right.
Oh, I love that line. Keep it if you want to, but,but. Okay, I'll, uh, let you do it. You know, it's

(14:10):
like that, that kind of thing. All right, so let'stalk about when People Leave. Um, tell the
listeners what People Leave is all about. I, uh,alluded to a little bit, but tell us more.
So it's about three sisters who find out thattheir mother took their single mother, took her
own life. And it's their journey to find out whyshe would do that. Because as far as they know,

(14:32):
she's been doing great and she's happy and theyhave no clue. So they go on this journey and while
they're on this journey, they find out a lot ofsecrets that they had no idea and how these
secrets affected them because they were very, veryyoung when these secrets started. And so it just
tells them how they made decisions in their livesthat they probably would have made different

(14:53):
decisions if they knew these secrets.
Mhm. What led you to write this? How did this comeabout?
So I had been seeing articles, um, about teenagerswho went off to college and they kept telling
their parents they were happy and doing great, andthen their parents found out that they killed
themselves. And I thought, I don't want to writeabout a teenager doing that because it's so

(15:14):
horrible. But I thought that's really interestingbecause then the parents had to go to the school
and all their friends and try to figure out whatpiece the whole thing together. So I thought that.
And then we have a few friends who are comedywriters who took their own life. And we even saw
one of them not much before, and he was his usualboisterous, wonderful self. And nobody in the

(15:37):
outside world knew what was going on with thesepeople. So I just thought that was like, sort of
interesting, the idea behind it. So then I wantedto write something with three sisters, because I
have two. And the sisters in this book are very,very different on purpose from all of us. But I
wanted to, I always wanted to write a book aboutsisters. So that's kind of how that started.

(15:58):
And to make it all together, it's also thismystery. You're solving a mystery throughout the
whole book.
Yes. Which I had never really done before. Andthat sort of just kind of happened as I went along
because I didn't really know. I knew I had anoutline, but I didn't really know all the little
breadcrumbs that were going to happen. I had tokeep going back and place all the breadcrumbs once
I figured out the end of the book.

(16:20):
Well, are you a. Are you a Plotter or do you tendto just go by the seat of your pants?
I do a little of both. I do plot it. I do alwayshave an outline, but a lot of times the outline
will change. And as I'm writing it, you know, ifI'm in a chapter and the chapter is changing,
something in the character, something comes to me,then the outline's going to change a little bit.

(16:41):
So other than the fact that it's three sisters andyou have two sisters, so there are three of you,
this is not a personal book. This is not based onyour life.
There's absolutely nothing based on my life.

Steve Cuden (16:50):
It's total fiction.

Leslie Rasm (16:51):
It's total fiction.
So. All right, so the subject matter, of courseunderneath is fairly dark. I mean, it's about
trying to figure out why mom killed herself. Um,did that make it in any way psychologically
challenging for you to write about?
Um, not really because my father passed away. Notfrom suicide, but my father passed away from

(17:12):
medical stuff. Now it's almost 10 years ago, butwhen he did, my whole family, we were all
devastated. I was very close to my father, all ofus were. And we all went to my mother's. And, um,
when we were there, we all sat down and we werecrying, but we were laughing because my dad was so
funny. So we were all talking about all thesethings and I realized, yes, the suicide starts the

(17:34):
book, but it's not really about suicide and it'snot really about death. It's really about these
sisters who come together and have their ownissues with each other and then are figuring out
this mystery. So it's really not a depressing bookand I could use a lot of humor in it.
It's definitely, definitely not a depressing book.
But the backdrop is dark. It's not, uh, you know,it's not about going to the circus and having a

(18:00):
lovely day at the park. Um, so tell us aboutCarla, the mom. What is it about her that causes
her. And don't give anything away, obviously, butwhat causes her to, um, um, develop secrets? Why
does she feel the need not to tell her daughters?
She had a very difficult childhood. And as shewent on and she got married, there were things

(18:24):
that happened in her marriage and she had toleave. And she basically doesn't ever want anybody
to know where she is and she doesn't want the kidsto know anything about her previous life. So she's
told them certain things that are not true.
Mhm. And that then becomes the source of more andmore of the unraveling mystery. Um, and Then. So

(18:47):
you've got the three daughters, Morgan, Charlieand Abby, and they are very different, as you say.
How do you develop characters? How did you developthese three? Since they're not based on, uh, your
life, Are they based on people, you know, in anyway?
Not really. I mean, Morgan is a alcoholic, she'ssober, and Charlie is in a relationship that she

(19:11):
should not be in for a very long time. And, youknow, I've been married for 36 years, so that's
not me.
And in Hollywood. Congratulations.
Yeah, thank you. And Abby sort of followed in hermother's footsteps and she had her own dreams that
she kind of gave up. So, no, they're not reallybased on anybody I know. I just. As I went along,

(19:35):
I started to develop more and more of eachcharacter and then went back and put more and more
things in.
So when you first started to write way back whenyou were on Hill Street Blues, how did you develop
characters back then? Is it similar to the way youdo it now? How do you make characters work? How do
you develop them?
Well, back then I was writing a screenplay, Imean, a tv. So all the characters existed, they

(19:56):
were all actors. So I was writing for them. Um,and then when I wrote for Huffington Post, those
were all essays, personal, funny essays about myfamily and my parents and my kids. So those were
based on real people. So I really didn't startwriting fiction until my first book, and that
didn't even start out as a book. That started out,I was in like a writing group because I didn't

(20:19):
know what I wanted to do or what I wanted towrite. And I was in a group with just a writing
coach and one other person, and she was justgiving us prompts. And every time that I would
write a prompt, it turned into this one characternamed Maggie. And as that happened and I started
describing things and writing prompts for her, Isaw a story for her. And that book, that's my

(20:40):
first book called After Happily Ever after. Andthat's really based on my books have a lot to do
with women's issues over time. So that book isabout a 46 year old whose kid is going off to
college. She has one kid going off to college, herhusband's going through some stuff, and then she
has the older parents who her father, who she'svery close to, starts to go downhill. And it's

(21:05):
about her trying to rediscover herself in thesecond part of her life after she's given up
everything for her family and, and trying tofigure out what do I do when everything is kind of
collapsing on me. And so she starts making thesedecisions that could blow up her life that she
wouldn't normally make. But she's under a lot ofpressure.
But the character development itself came to you.

(21:27):
You didn't sit down and draft out long, uh, proseversions, uh, of who this character was. It just
kept coming to you?
Yeah, on that one, it did. On my other books, I. Idid, like, a backstory.

Steve C (21:40):
You did do backstories.
Even if I didn't use everything, I did a backstoryjust to kind of develop who these characters would
be and what. How the decisions they would make andthings about their backstory.
Personally, I have a very hard time doing anythingwhere I haven't sat down and kind of worked it out
in advance. And I've talked to many authors onthis show who are what they call pantsers. They do
it by the seat of their pants. I'm not good at it.

(22:03):
I'm, uh. The seat of the pants is developing thedevelopment, not the actual script or the book,
whatever it is that you're working on. So most. Ithink most teleplays, most screenplays, for sure,
have a single protagonist that the audience canfollow. You've written a book here that have four.
I guess you'd call them protagonists. Do you thinkone of them stands out among the others as the

(22:27):
protagonist of the story, or do you think thatthey're equal?
I think to some degree they're equal, but eachchapter is from one of their points of view. And I
think Morgan, for some reason, maybe because she'sthe oldest, comes out the strongest to me. Um, but
my first book was from one point of view. Mysecond book was from two points of view, and my

(22:49):
third book was from, uh, four points of view, soto speak.

St (22:52):
And the next one will be 12.
I hope not. No, the next one's actually from onepoint of view.
Well, it's interesting because, as you weresaying, Morgan, I had already written my notes
here that Morgan is the one who has the biggestarc. She's the one that has the most change from
beginning to end. So if I were teaching about thisbook, I would suggest that Morgan is the

(23:14):
protagonist because she's the one that goesthrough that big arc.
Yeah, it's exactly right. And I just wrote, um, asmall, very short kind of prequel to the book. And
Morgan. It's from Morgan's point of view, thewhole.
There you go. So that becomes. As you're writing,that becomes your bias, even if it's unconscious
or subconscious. I should say exactly. Um. Uh, doyou think that the fact that you deal with various

(23:39):
things, substance abuse, alcoholism,psychotherapy, motherhood, uh, difficulty with
parenting, changes in that kind of way? Uh, to be.
And certainly what it means to be a sibling. Thoseare all sort of underlying themes that you have
going on. Did you have to do any research on anyof that, or did you already know about those
things?
The research I did was for the AlcoholicsAnonymous. I have a friend who is in Alcoholics

(24:04):
Anonymous, so that whole stuff I sent to her andsaid, is this accurate? Because I want to make
sure that it is. And she read all of that, and shetold me how it works, and because I've never been
to a meeting, so my research was to go to her andhave her read it and then talk me through it. That
part of it. Um, but as far as, like, siblings. Ihave siblings. As far as, like, motherhood, I'm a

(24:26):
mom. So all that stuff. Um, and then as far asthe, like, suicide, because it's just only at the
beginning, and it's not about suicide.

Steve Cuden (24:34):
Right.
Didn't really do any research for that.
And you don't really. You don't really dig intothe suicide itself at all. It's a backstory of
what happens. Um, do you find that when you'redoing. Are you a researcher in general, or is this
something that just happened in this book?
I do sometimes do a lot of research. My firstbook, um, had some medical stuff in it, so I did a

(24:58):
lot of research, and I was on a lot of Facebookgroups with caregivers and things like that to get
their point of view. So I did do a lot of researchfor my first book and some for my second book,
too. But my third book, I didn't really do thatmuch.
So I found that, though you have these four reallydifferent characters, that the book overall feels

(25:19):
like you've written a memoir. Even though it's notat all a memoir, it just has that feeling to it,
which is the intimacy of it. And I assume that wasnot your intention.
No, I never even. I've never heard that. So thankyou. That's great.
Well, it felt that way to me all the way through.
It was like four different little memoirs that youwere getting, because, as you say, you keep
writing individual chapters, coming from eachindividual point of view. And that certainly felt

(25:45):
memoir like. To me. And so I didn't know if thatwas intentional or not. Obviously it was not.
It wasn't, but I like that. Uh, I purposely,though, did make sure that you Got into
everybody's backstory?
Oh, yes.
Each chapter, when you listen from their point ofview, you're hearing what's going on with them. So
in that sense, I see what you're saying.
Did you set out to have it, have a, uh, comedicfeel to it in many places. Was that your intent

(26:10):
when you started to write?
It's always my intent, no matter what. All mybooks have some. They call them heartbreaking
comedies because there's some heartbreaking scenesin all the books. But I always have a lot of
lightness and a lot of comedy because I don't wantsomebody to read my books and then it'd be down.
Would you say that that is your, um, main tonewhen you're writing, is that you want to have a

(26:34):
light tone to it?
Yes, I always want to have a light tone to it. Inever write anything that's really, really down.
Is that because, uh, you just don't want it inyour life as a writer?
I think it's because it's more fun for me, like,not to be just like, ugh. Um, because that's like,
you know, when you hear about actors that are in apart and they bring it home and it's so

(26:55):
depressing. It's sort of the same thing whenyou're writing, you're in with all these
characters. And I don't want to be depressed.
Obviously there are writers that write very deep,dark, depressing books and I have a feeling that
they are deep, dark and depressed. But also theinfamous story, uh, about the sad clown, the
person that's writing comedy, playing comedy andso on, they're actually behind the scenes, quite

(27:19):
dark. You already alluded to having writers thatyou know who killed themselves. Uh, that says
something about what's going on with thatindividual. Uh, in your case, you don't want it in
your life as a writer, so you don't go there.
Exactly. Yeah. Because a lot of comedy writers areknown to be depressives.
Oh, sure.
And stand ups and all the rest of it. I'm not. ButI just don't want to have that in my life if I

(27:43):
don't have to.
And I think that shows in the writing. I meanit's. I think it would be very difficult for you
to write the way that you write with the tone thatyou write if you in fact were not, ah, a more
positive, upbeat person. Um, you write many scenesin this book that are quite vivid. Do you think
that comes from your screen work, from being ascreenwriter?

(28:04):
Yeah, I do. I think when I write Anything. I kindof think. I don't write for actors. Like, I'm not
writing the book and saying, oh, she could playthis and she could play that. But I think of these
people as real people. So I try to make it asvivid as possible so somebody can kind of, in
their own mind, imagine whoever these people are.

(28:24):
And you're. So that's why I, uh, guess that's whatI'm asking. Are you then using your skill sets as
a screenwriter to make it vivid, even though, aswe've already talked about in a screenplay, you
don't write all of that. You don't write every bitof it. Your writing is very, um, visual. I can see
it vividly when I'm reading it.
I took a lot of classes, and one of the thingsthey said, and I do this in, like, a different

(28:48):
draft usually, because when I'm writing, I don'treally think about this that much. But they said,
look at all the senses. So if somebody gets out ofa car, is it hot out? Um, do they smell anything?
So I'll go back and in, like, my second draft ofthe book, I'll start over and I'll start looking
at each scene and going, okay, what in this sceneam I missing as far as, like, whether it's their

(29:08):
hand movements, you know, their expressions, ifI'm missing something or in what the world is like
outside or inside. And I'll do that a lot of timesI'll keep adding that.
So I found that you have a wonderful catharsis atthe end of this book, and I think that that's
helpful. And I think great stories are catharticin some way. And I think that's what I consider to

(29:30):
be the storytelling drug. That's what bringsreaders and viewers back over and over again. Is
that notion of catharsis. Do you, as you'rewriting and finish a book, do you find it
cathartic?
I do. As soon as I'm done with the book, if itgives me my. I have, um, two books that have happy
endings. And my first book has a hopeful ending,but it's not necessarily. You don't know what's

(29:52):
going to happen. And, uh, I did that because myfirst book is very real to life. And I did not
want to tie it up in this little bow. So everybodygoes, oh, okay. Of course I knew that was going to
happen. So it's hopeful and it was interestingbecause the reviews people said they were. Most
people were happy that I didn't tie it up. Therewere a few people at book clubs that were like, I

(30:13):
wanted a happy ending. So I did go back and writean epilogue, but I only put it out if somebody
asked me for it, like, what happened in this book?
Then I'll send them the epilogue.
The thing is that, you know, we get to thecatharsis of we know where they are in the world
and they can move on from there, because for awhile in the book, they're kind of trapped in the

(30:34):
notion of, we've got to figure this out, and theycan get past that, which is a cathartic moment, at
least was for me. Um, let's talk about how youactually developed the book itself. Where did you
begin? Do you begin with characters or do youbegin with plot?
In this one, I kind of began with both. Um, Istarted with knowing that there were going to be
three sisters. I had an editor that I was workingwith because I had written the outline, but I

(30:59):
wanted an editor to read the outline. So her and Ikind of went back and forth about, like, sort of,
you know, going through the basics of the outline.
It changed a lot just because then I put in moreand more of the mystery and came up with different
things, the clues and things like that. But I, uh,would say I probably started with the three
sisters and then sort of knew that I wanted to dothat and then knew the basic story idea and then

(31:23):
just started going through it to figure out, okay,well, where can I go from here?
You already knew about mom before you started?
Yes. I knew she was going to be a single mom. Iknew she was the one that was going to pass away.
Um, and I knew that the sisters were going to haveto figure out why.
So you knew it was going to be an uncovering ofone bit of their lives after another?

(31:44):
Yes, I just didn't know how I was going to uncoverit.
You say that you're a reviser. Does that mean areyou a quick first drafter?
No. I mean, I'm not. My first book took me fourand a half years because I had no clue what I was
doing. My second book took me about nine months,and I think this book took me probably, like, six,
seven or eight months. But I do. I write itthrough, and then I go back and I do it again. And

(32:06):
then I go back and I keep checking it to make surethere's a lot of stuff that I want it to say or
delete. Stuff that I think, you know, I might havewritten twice, because I've done that before where
I write, you know, something in one section. Andthen, like, three sections later, I wrote the same
exact kind of dialogue. So I have to get rid ofit. It's funny. So I do it again.
Do you figure that out, or does it requiresomebody else telling you?

(32:29):
Usually I'll see it, but sometimes my husband willsee it before I send it to the editor. He'll say,
oh, wait a minute. You said this exact thing overhere.
Well, that's what I think of as, uh, you get lostin the forest for the trees. You stop seeing
certain things after a while. When you're workingon something for a really long time. The structure
of the book with the various chapters for eachindividual character, was that something you

(32:53):
decided on before you began to write?
Yes. Um, because I. First I was going to writefrom one point of view, but then I thought, no, I
think it's better if we see everybody's point ofview, because then you can get to know who
everybody is. If you do just one point of view,that person pretty much. If you. Especially if you
do it from first person, they have to be in everysingle scene because they have to see what's

(33:16):
happening or overhear it. So I didn't want to dothat because that's really hard. And I did that in
my first book. But then in my first book, I wentin, because there's two other characters that are
really important in my first book. One is herhusband and one is her father. So there are
chapters from their point of view so the readercan see what they're really going through, but
most of it is from Maggie's point of view.

(33:38):
Ah. And that's, uh, easier in a way, because whenyou have a singular protagonist, you don't need to
worry about whether you're capturing all thesedifferent things.
Exactly. And my next book that I just finishedalso is from singular point of view.
And. And how many drafts do you think youultimately did on this book?

Leslie Rasmusse (33:56):
Probably three.
Three. Is that, uh, typical for you, is two tothree or four drafts?
Yeah, probably three. And then I gave it to. Thatwas after, like, the first two, and then my
husband looked at it, and then it went to theeditor. So maybe four total by the time I got the
notes and then finished the notes.
So did you know as you were writing that this wasgoing to work? Could you tell? Did it feel like it

(34:19):
was working or did you. Did it require otherpeople giving you feedback first?
I always think my books don't work.

Steve C (34:25):
You and everybody else.
I always assume everybody's going to hate the bookuntil I start getting feedback. And like, the
editors will say, no, this is really good, or theydon't have a lot of notes. Then I'll be like, oh,
maybe it's okay. But until the book is out thereand I start getting reviews, I never really know.
Well, I think that's true for everyone. We don'treally know. We do what we do because we want to

(34:49):
do it. We feel like we have to get it out of oursystem one way or another. But we don't know
whether other people are going to be attracted toit or find it interesting or fun or whatever. Uh,
until you get that feedback. I have a friend ofmine who's no longer with us who used to say, uh,
there's nothing like the unmistakable sledgehammerof the marketplace. And that's true. When you put

(35:10):
a movie out into the world or a TV series, it'seither going to catch on or it's not, and the
market is going to tell you everything. And that'sreally true for books as well. And you did work
with an editor at various steps through this wholething? Yeah.
Yes. Oh, I had a professional editor at the verybeginning just to kind of go over the outline. I
wrote the outline, and then I sent it to her, andshe kind of went over with me to make sure it kind

(35:33):
of worked.
So this is not a language editor. This editor inthe beginning is not concerned about.
About your developmental editor.
Developmental editor. Not a grammar editor, notspelling and that kind of thing. This is someone
who's telling you your story is working or itdoesn't work, your characters work or they don't
work. And here's what. Their feelings about it arekind of like in the theater, like a dramaturg, but

(35:55):
that's not what we would call it in novels.
Yes, I always use a developmental editor. Um, Iused her at the beginning, and then I had a
different editor, actually for the actual book.
And she was also developmental editor, but she.
Because my husband did all the grammar stuff. Oh,yeah, he's very good at that. So he kind of fixed
all of that. And then I sent it to her fordevelopmental editing just to make sure the whole

(36:18):
story worked and that she didn't find somethingthat didn't work.
So I'm curious. You're the first person I'm goingto ask this question of. I have found myself, over
time, as, uh, for lack of a better way to say it,AI or whatever is out there, as that has become
more and more and more prominent in our variousprograms, our writing programs. Are you finding
that if the computer is telling you that asentence is not right, that you're using that to

(36:43):
help guide you to what you want to revise it tobe.
I'll look at it, but a lot of times with AI, itcan correct your grammar. But like if you're
writing dialogue, it doesn't know that you reallywant to place the emphasis on a certain word or
anything else. So the only time I really look atit mostly is for like commas or semicolons, which,
which I'm really bad at, um, that kind of thing.

(37:05):
But I don't use it. It might suggest a word andthat every once in a while I'll be like, oh yeah,
that is a better word. But I don't like rewritewith it. I just sort of use it just for that, like
basic, basic stuff that I don't know.
Mhm. I think that a, uh, lot of writers arestarting to adopt that, that it you. I think as we
write. I don't know about you, but when I write,and I've been writing a long time, I still, still

(37:29):
will write the structure of a sentence and notsure I got it right. And I think a lot of writers
go through that. And so if there's some kind of,for lack of a better term, a program that says to
you this is your sentence structure is poor, Imight at least let it. Humor me. Um, but like you
say, when you're writing dialogue, that's notgoing to be grammatical at all. Frequently, no.

(37:53):
And I mean sometimes it'll put a comma after,let's say so. But you might not want that comma
there because you're trying to have it say so blahor whatever it is. And so. And it will throw. Like
when I, um, one of the publishers I went to at thebeginning, their person put in all these weird
commas in all my dialog and I was like, thatdoesn't make sense because that's not what they're

(38:14):
trying to say and they're putting emphasis on thewrong part of the sentence. So I took them all
out. Whatever I got rid of.
Well, if I've told many people many times, if youwant to see how people actually talk, which is not
true dialogue, just read a deposition. If you reada deposition, they're literally typing down

(38:36):
exactly word for word with all the ums and ers andthe stops and the starts that a person is saying
while they're being deposed. It's almostimpossible to read. It doesn't read well at all.
So when you write dialogue you have to havewhatever you're putting into it, which is, uh,
sort of a kind of poetic way that you're writingdialogue. Uh, it's an elevated way to write it.

(38:58):
Most dialogue is. And yet it can be very street.
It can be very ordinary, but it has a kind of arhythm to it. And you have to put the rhythm in as
the writer.
Right, exactly. And I also read all of it outloud. If you don't. For me, this is just for me.
But I read it out loud because I can hear then,oh, no, you know what? There needs to be an extra

(39:19):
word here or that doesn't sound right. Or insteadof, you are your. Or whatever it is. I read it all
out loud.
You started very, very young in life. You did alittle acting. You've probably not been an actress
for quite some time, right?

L (39:32):
No, very, very long time ago.
Do you still use that when you're reading it outloud?
I do. I mean, I sort of act the parts, you know,not to anybody. There's nobody in the room. But I
do because I. That's how I can tell if the humorworks or, you know, I mean, with comedy, there's
certain, you know, kind of rules. So I want tomake sure that is in there, that I didn't, you

(39:53):
know, the rule of three or whatever those rulesare. And so, yeah, I do kind of act it out.
Do you actually think about that as you're writingabout the comedy rules, the rules of three, and
other things?

Leslie Rasmuss (40:04):
Sometimes, yeah.
So you're very intentional about it.

Leslie Rasmussen (40:07):
Yeah.
Do you ever write something and go back after abit of time has passed and read it and you're
surprised by what you wrote?
Oh, yeah. There are times I used to say that Iwould go to sleep and then some little elf would
come out and write, like, a whole bunch of stuff.
And I'd read it and go, I didn't write this. Idon't remember writing this. Because you're in the
zone. And so you just have no idea. And sometimesyou don't like it, and sometimes you're really

(40:31):
excited and you're, like, impressed with yourself.
Well, I've had more than a few experiences aftermany years of doing this, where I'll go back and
read something from 30 years ago and go, I wrotethis. I don't remember writing it. I don't
remember. It's like, how did I really. You've hadthat experience as well?

Leslie Ra (40:51):
Oh, yeah, many times.
And when you say, I love the zone, I love gettingin the zone. Are you able to get in the Zone
pretty easily, or is it something that takes youtime to do?
It's very easy. If I'm in the middle of a book,the first chapter is not easy because that's just
starting everything. But once I'm in it, it's veryeasy. I actually work in my main family room

(41:12):
because I like to just be around people. I don'tlike to be, like, in a room by myself, but I can
tune out anything happening. They can watch TV inthe room. It makes no difference. I don't hear or
I don't pay attention to anything else.
Yeah, now I'm guessing you don't, but could you gowork in a coffee shop like many writers do?
Nope. I'd be so distracted listening to people. Ifit's people that I don't know, I'll just start

(41:35):
over, hearing their conversations. No, I wouldn't.
I cannot do that.
But in your own home, where you know pretty muchwho's gonna say what, then you can zone it out,
and
it doesn't matter what's on tv, it doesn't matteranything going on, and you
can drop into that zone pretty simply then.
Yeah, I can. Like I said, if I'm right in themiddle of a book, I absolutely can.

(41:57):
M. Let's talk for a moment about some of thearticles you've written for Huffington Post. Any
other publications aside from the Huffington Post?
I mean, I've done things like Medium. A long timeago, I did. Maria Shriver used to have her own
website site, and I used to do stuff for her, butmostly Huffington Post.
And what do you mostly focus on in your articlewriting?
I haven't written one lately, but when I waswriting them, they would be, like I said before,

(42:21):
like, my kids going off to camp for the firsttime, my kid going off to college. Um, I wrote a
funny article on menopause. I wrote, um. You know,I've written articles on nutrition. When I was a
nutritionist and how the scale would bully me, Iwould write all kinds of different things about.
Mostly about my life and my family, but otherthings, too.

(42:44):
And do you find that you get most of your ideasfor articles that they come from your life, or did
you have to sit down and conjure them up?
No, they all came from my life. That's why I don'twrite them as much anymore because I'm so busy
writing books. Um, but they've all come from mylife pretty much.
Are there areas that you definitely avoided?
I think everybody in my family. I've never hurtanybody in my family. I Wouldn't write anything

(43:09):
that was hurtful. But they were all up for grabs,everybody. Anything funny somebody did was up for
grabs.

Steve (43:14):
Did you tick anybody off?

Leslie Rasmussen (43:16):
Nope.

Steve Cuden (43:16):
No.
Or at least they didn't read it. So I don't thinkmy kids have ever read the ones I wrote about
them.

Stev (43:22):
Oh, they've never read it?

Leslie Rasmus (43:24):
I don't think so.

Stev (43:25):
Have they read your books?
Yes. My oldest son has this thing about, um,buying my books in a bookstore. So he always has
to buy. Even though I'm like, I'll give it to you.
He always goes to a bookstore and buys them.
That's adorable. If he's, I've got to buy mom'sbook because he's supporting you.
Yeah, I guess I was like, I'll give you the money.
He's like, no, no, no. I need to buy it.

(43:47):
Okay, that's. That's great. I mean, that must makeyou feel good.
It does. Uh, it makes me feel good. And my mothertells everybody in the entire world about my book.
She goes on vacation. She takes a. My bookmarks.
M. She gets people to buy my books, goes on Amazonand shows them. I think she sold more of my books
than anybody else. Well.
Well, what good would your mom be if she didn't dothat?
Exactly. She's 89 years old, so.

(44:09):
Wow. That's. That's the best. By the way, that'sthe best publicity you can get. Anyway. Word of
mouth is better than, you know, any kind ofadvertising word of mouth. Is it? Uh, so if you
have somebody that's out there selling your bookfor you, that's. That's really great. So when
you're writing articles, do you structure them oroutline them the way that you would do it with a
novel or you come at it differently.

(44:30):
I come at it differently. Um, I usually just,like, stream of consciousness. Write the whole
thing, and then I'll go back and I'll look at itand see, you know, do I need to change this or
that or move things around? That kind of thing?
But I usually do those. Stream of consciousness.
Because they're not that long either.
So how often when you get to the end of an articleor get to the end of any of your books, did you

(44:51):
realize I have to go back and change the wholebeginning?
Um, I've done it many times. This book that youjust read, it actually started out originally with
each sister. And I thought, uh, and in the middleof the night, I started going, I need this to
start with a bang. So I moved that scene. That'sthe first scene in the book to the beginning. And

(45:12):
so once I did that, I was like, okay, that's muchbetter. So, yeah, I have done that before and
started. Gotten rid of a first chapter and startedthe next and, um, the second chapter.
So you needed to get through it to have theepiphany about the way that it really needed to
open?
Yes, because I just. I couldn't see it until Irealized and I read a lot, so I know that you're

(45:33):
supposed to open with something that just happens.
So I knew that that was going to be better thansomebody just reading about each character when
they don't, you know, know what's going on and whyit's going that way.
All right, so this is important for me because Ihave, uh, my own issues with notes. Note giving,
note taking. You, uh, clearly have gone through inyour career, uh, receiving many notes from people.

(45:57):
My assumption is you've given notes to people,editors, or whether it's from your husband or
whoever it is, you're going to get these notes,especially in tv. Um, what is your technique for
handling notes that you find challenging, and howdo you make that helpful to you?
Are you saying if somebody gives me notes?
Yes, if somebody gives you notes and you think toyourself, this note doesn't make sense. I don't

(46:21):
like this note. It's not really helping me, but Iknow I need to address it because I'm on, you
know, I'm working for someone else. How do youaddress notes?
As an author, the editor hands you the notes andgoes away. So you can just say, I'm not. I'm going
to ignore it. In television, you have to take thenote because it's from somebody higher up than

(46:41):
you. And usually they will tell you basically howto take the note. They don't just say, we don't
like this. Change it. They usually won't do that.
At least I haven't experienced that. They'llusually say, this doesn't work. You know, can you.
Blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, you know, canyou just change this around? Or can you, you know,
take the note differently? You know that you didthis section. So I found that not to be that hard

(47:06):
to take somebody's notes. The hardest part for me,and again, I had an executive producer above me,
was when the network would give a note and theyhad no idea what they wanted. So then I had no
idea what they wanted. So I would go to the execproducer and say, okay, they're saying this. And
sometimes they would say, ignore the note. Theywould just say, oh, uh, ignore it. It's a bad
note. Sometimes they would say, okay. I think whatthey're trying to get you to do is this. So those

(47:32):
were the hardest notes to take, was just when Ihad no idea what they wanted.
Did you find many notes helpful in, uh, books?
Yes, I found a lot of notes helpful, but sometimesI would be like, I got a note once that my books.
Two of them take place in Los Angeles. And one ofthe notes was, um, these people went to a bowling

(47:53):
alley. And the note from the editor was, oh,nobody in Los Angeles was. Would go to a bowling
alley. It's too touristy. And I'm like, what?
Yeah.

Steve Cuden (48:00):
What?
I go to bowling alleys. I thought that was, like,a crazy note that she was giving me, that it was
too touristy to do Los Angeles stuff because I goto museums. I do things all the time. So that note
I just ignored.
And this was in the book. Not in a screenplay.

Leslie Rasm (48:16):
It was in the book.
In a book. I mean, obviously, executives inHollywood are notorious for giving notes that
people do not know what they're talking about. Orthey just go, they didn't read this, so they don't
understand what we're doing here. They'renotorious for that. I always found it. It took a
long time for me to understand how to do it, but Ialways found it helpful to just take the note and

(48:37):
go off and think about it and not immediatelyreject it or get defensive about it.
Yes, exactly. I never rejected a note immediately.
I would just go off and try to, like, try tounderstand what they wanted before I would say no.
But sometimes, like you said, a lot of people giveyou notes and they don't either. They read it too
quickly and they're not seeing that you. They.

(48:58):
That that question is answered five pages later,they miss that. So you're, like, thinking. But
that's answered like, what do you want? And alsoin network tv, sometimes they want you to hit
people over the head because people are not reallypaying as much attention. So, uh, which I hated. I
hated all the pipe that you had to put in and thenalways ended up getting cut anyway.
Oh, tell the listeners what laying pipe is.

(49:20):
Oh, laying pipe means that, like, if somebody doessomething and it's gonna, like, um, that you
basically have to keep telling them exactly what'sgoing on. That's really what laying pipe is, is
that you tell somebody this is what's happening,and then you tell them again, and you tell them
again like they're stupid.
Well, and you're and you're. And the. The termlaying pipe, of course, is the one thing. Is it

(49:44):
connected to the next thing? And is connected tothe next thing, like you're laying pipe, and
that's what you're talking about. Uh, and. Andwhen you first sit down to work on a story and
you're setting that story up, well, how did we getfrom here to there? You know, can we jump from
there here to there, or do we have to show how weget from here to there?
Well, that's the thing, especially in books. Imean, also in tv. But in books, you want to show.

(50:08):
They say show, don't tell. So you want to maybeleave a breadcrumb about something that somebody
goes, oh, hmm. And then they realize later, oh,that's what that meant, you know, five pages ago.
Which I like to do. I don't like to hit peopleover the head. And when you read books, most
people are paying attention, they're not on theirphone, you know, unless they're listening to it. I

(50:28):
guess they could be on their phone.
As you said, you are dialogue driven. When you'rewriting, you like to write dialogue. Uh, do you
find that that makes it harder to show and nottell?
Um, no, I don't. Um. Because the only thing youhave to do, and I had to learn this too, is you
have to learn that when somebody's describingsomething or talking about something, how their

(50:50):
body is or how their faces or if they're frowningor they're happy, that's the stuff that's a little
bit harder that I have to really think about,like, what would I do? That's why I sometimes read
it out loud. Because then I know, like, oh, Iwould be like, grabbing my face, or I would be
like, you know, rolling my eyes or whatever thosethings are. And so those are the things that. That
I really have to think about.
I'm curious. Once you've got a book published andit's out in the world, have you ever gone back and

(51:14):
thought to yourself, why did I write that?
Oh, yeah. Well, not why did I write it, it's moreabout, should I fix it? Oh, gosh, should I go back
and re edit it?
Which you really can't do, can you?
Well, you can. And then you could put it in as asecond revision, I guess.
But that's true. I suppose that's true. Are, uh,all three of your books through a publishing
house?
No, the first one is through Hybrid.

Steve Cuden (51:36):
Okay.
The second one was through a small publisher who.
It's a long story, but Basically she stole all mymoney, didn't give me anything and uh, I had to
take the book back and self publish it because shejust all the money I made at the beginning for the
first five months which is the most money you makeright away.
Right.
All my friends and family basically paid her andshe stole all the author's money. So she shut down

(51:59):
now but that doesn't help. So I took that bookback and self published it. And I love self
publishing so I self published my next book.
M. So when people leave is self
published then and it's great because you get tocontrol everything.
I understand. I've got two books out there thatare self published so I get it. Unless you are
like a huge name, a ah, Stephen King or somethinglike that. Um, self publishing is a fine way to go

(52:25):
today.
Yeah. And you make more money.
You do.
And nobody really even asks you if you're selfpublished or they don't care, they don't know,
they just want to read the book book and huh.
Publishers honestly take money from you and if youaren't famous, most of those people do not make
much money off of those books that are throughtraditional unless they're famous. And I've

(52:46):
actually even noticed I've been reading people'sbios at the end of their book. Some people that
are with like Simon and Schuster or Random Houseand now a lot of those people actually work for
that company. They're like vice presidents ofthose companies and so their debut novels come out
crazy and do great and get on the New York Timeslist but they work for that company. So I mean it

(53:08):
kind of makes it so unfair for a lot of people.
Well yeah, that's true. To me there was a time notall that long ago where it was frowned on. But not
anymore?

Leslie (53:19):
No, not at all anymore.
I just think it's for a lot of authors it is theway to go. Um, and by the way, you know if you're
self published that your book is not going to beon the remainder table. Uh, at any point you can
leave it out there for as long as you want toleave it out there. But a publishing house, if
it's not selling, they're going to pull it out oftheir catalog.

(53:39):
They do. And you know you can get it into yourneighborhood bookstores. They always want local
authors. So my books are in stores all over LosAngeles. It's harder to get them somewhere else
but you know most books are sold anyway online.
Well very few books, very few books. So sell morethan four or five thousand copies in their whole
life. Uh, and so if you're going to, if you're aself publisher, you may as well take as much of

(54:03):
that as you can.

Leslie Rasmussen (54:04):
Yeah, exactly.
So I have to ask you. The old line is that dyingis easy, but comedy is hard. I know it's almost
impossible to define, but can you, from yourperspective, comment on what you think makes
comedy so difficult to do?
Well, I think it's either in you or it isn't inyou, for whatever reason. And like I said, I'm not

(54:25):
like, at a party, you know, saying all these funnythings. That's not who I am. But when I sit down,
the words just come out of me in a more humorousway. So I think it's really hard for some people
because it's just not the way they think. There'salso people out there that are so funny at
parties, but if you handed them, um, you know, acomputer, they would not know how to write

(54:46):
whatever they're saying down because they're justquick.
Well, you're obviously good at taking what's inyour head and defining it in a structural way, in
a sentence or in several sentences in order to doa joke or to have a humorous line, however, that
is. But many people who are just naturally giftedat being funny don't know how to write it into a
structured way.

(55:07):
Exactly.
Well, I think that's to your advantage, obviously,as a writer. Tell us a little bit about your
nutrition business. How did that happen?
So my son, my youngest, was going to go off tokindergarten. I knew I was going to have a lot of
time. I couldn't go back into the business. So I,uh, hired a life coach to just talk me through
what I could do. And I was always interested inworking out and health. And so I decided to go

(55:32):
back to school and get a master's and open my ownbusiness. I trained with a, uh, celebrity, um,
nutritionist for a while, and then I startedgetting my own clients. So I started seeing my
own, um, clients and I left there and I did it for10 years. But towards the end of the 10 years is
when I started writing for Huffington Post,because I just missed the writing. And so I just

(55:55):
started doing that. And then when I decided towrite a book, I just thought, I'm just going to
close my practice. I just, I really just didn'twant to do it anymore. I had lost the passion for
it.
Do you think that doing the business required youto have great creativity?
Not in the same way, no. It was more meal plansand things like that. So no, it did not feel
creative in that way.

Steve Cuden (56:17):
Mhm.
And working with people who you're giving mealplans to, they're not thrilled, even though they
come to you and they're paying you. So that's notreally fun either because
you're giving them food that they don't want toeat. Right?
Exactly. And then they get mad at you when itdoesn't work because they didn't do what you asked
them to do. So it just became kind of frustratingfor me.
Well, anybody that's, uh, thinking about changingtheir diet for whatever reason is probably unhappy

(56:41):
with the way they look or something like that.
Right?
Yeah, usually some people came to me that werethin but just wanted to be healthier.
Healthier. Yeah. Well, uh, were you writing allalong as you were doing it, or did you completely
stop writing? Totally.
I completely stopped because, um, I was busy untilmaybe two. Two years before I stopped the
business.
I see. And that got you back into it. Um, I'vebeen having just the most fascinating conversation

(57:07):
with, uh, Leslie Rasmussen, and we're going towind the show down a little bit. And, uh, Leslie,
in all of your experiences in show business or inpublishing books, um, can you share with us a
story that's either weird, quirky, offbeat,strange, or just plain funny?
So I worked on Elf, um, all those years ago, andwhen there was alf, but there was also Ralph, and

(57:32):
Ralph was rehearsal Alf, and Ralph was alwaysdrunk. So they would come in, we'd go down to
stage to watch the show, and Ralph would always befalling off things and be saying things he
shouldn't be saying. It was really funny and fun.
That was. You worked on that show with, uh, DavidSilverman and Steve Sstarsik. Um, um, both good

(57:57):
friends of mine. Steve Hyde knew forever. Steve,unfortunately, is no longer with us. But, um,
David Silverman's been on this show and he's goingto be on it again in the not too distant future.
So it's great that we have that connection forpeople that we've known from our past. All right,
so last question for you today, Leslie. Um, you'veshared with us throughout this whole show a huge

(58:17):
amount of really helpful information and advice.
And I'm wondering if you have a single solid pieceof advice or a tip that you like to give to those
who are starting out in the business or maybethey're in a little bit trying to get to that next
level.
I have two little pieces of advice. One is if youhaven't started, don't Just sit down and write a
book. It's just not going to work. The best thingto do is take the smallest steps and write a

(58:43):
little scene about something. You don't have tohave the whole book. You don't have to even know
what it's about. Just the way I did it. You justcreate a character and just write scenes with this
character, whether it shows up in the book or not,because it will get your creativity going. And the
second thing is, I was given this advice, but Ididn't really need it because I already knew how
to write dialogue from tv. But I was told, go toStarbucks, sit in Starbucks and listen. Because

(59:11):
men and women talk very differently. Men are muchquicker in whatever they say, and women can go on
and on and on as I'm doing. So. So. But if youlisten to the way people talk, like you had said
about the, um, deposition, taking out the. Youknow, and, um, and all that stuff, just listen to
how people talk to each other. Listen to twowomen, listen to a man and a woman, listen to two

(59:34):
men, and you'll start to hear the way people talk.
So when I was in school, they actually assigned usto do what they called an eavesdropper. And they
would send us. They would say, go find a placethat's busy, like a restaurant, like a Starbucks,
like a park or something like that, where thereare a lot of people and turn your back to people
so they don't see you and write down the dialoguethat you're hearing.

(59:57):
Ah, uh, that's good too. I like that.
And so then you'd come in and you'd have one ortwo pages of dialogue that was literally what you
were, uh, writing down as fast as you could. Butyou didn't want to do it where they were watching.
You didn't want the people watching you writing.
You turn your back to them and just listen. So Ithink that's a very effective piece of advice, and
I'm glad you said it, because for people that arestarting out in the business who need to learn how

(01:00:21):
to write dialogue that sounds like people talking,that is a great way to do it.
And if you're going to do TV tape, audio tape,everything you like, every kind of show you like,
and just listen to them.
Uh, the other thing that I have done in my past, Ithink that's absolutely accurate, is you need to
listen to the way people are talking. Especiallyin comedies. Particularly in comedies, when I get

(01:00:42):
on an airplane, if there's a movie. Well, it'sless likely today because most of the time, the
movies are in the back of the seats. But in theold days when the movies were up above, I used to
never take the headphones. I used to watch themovie with no sound. I could see if I understood
the story from the pictures.

Leslie (01:00:57):
Uh, that's interesting.
When you can't understand the story from thepictures, clearly, that's a dialogue driven story.
And it's like, I don't know what's going on, butthey're talking a lot. But if you can tell what's
going on, that's pure cinema. So that's why I usedto do that as an exemplar. Leslie Rasmussen, this
has been absolutely a blast for me, and I can'tthank you enough for being with me today on the

(01:01:19):
show. And I especially thank you for your time,your energy, and for all this great wizard that
you've shared.

Leslie Rasmu (01:01:25):
Oh, uh, thank you.
And so we've come to the end of today's StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won't you please
take a moment to give us a comment, rating, orreview on whatever app or platform you're
listening to? Your support helps us bring moregreat Story Beat episodes to you. Story Beat is
available on all major podcast apps and platforms,including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, I

(01:01:50):
radio, TuneIn, and many others. Until next time,I'm Steve Cuden. Uh, and may all your stories be
unforgettable.