September 6, 2026 • 9 mins
Join Jerry and Manaia as we talk ABs vs Springboks to our good mate Joe Wheeler from Sky Sport
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
South Africa have taken the lead in the four-match series.
Four matches against the All Blacks. Not a three-test series.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's a four-test series. No, a lot of people are
saying it's a three-match, only the South African ones matter.
That's not us, man. The Baltimore-Balton is still a test match.
In fact, I'd say it's most important of all. I
think so, too, and whoever wins that wins the series.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, they won 29-24 in Soweto. The South Africans now
lead the rugby's greatest rivalry 2-1 ahead of the all-important
decider in Baltimore this weekend. Joining us now, disgraced former
Highlander Sky Sport commentator, Joey Wheeler, a fascinating game of rugby.
And the cliche, a game of two halves, Joey Wheeler,
has never been more true.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Exactly. Or the Bolton in Baltimore. I like that, fellas.
I'm on that bandwagon, too. I really enjoy that. That's
all that matters right now.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Yeah, you're right, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was, yeah, the old cliche, a game of two halves.
I thought, Man, the All Blacks started so well after
being slow starters. In Cape Town, it was great to
see them come out of the blocks and playing some
enterprising and entertaining footy. But then, yeah, just as they do,
the Staffers, man, they're clinical and man, they're good when
(01:11):
the game gets into an arm wrestle. Yes. They go
to their set piece, they go back to their big
old scrum, their big old line out, and they just
absolutely suffocate you into submission. And that is exactly what
they did. And Soweto, they were so clinical and ruthless
in so many areas. Again, the All Blacks showing some promise,
(01:35):
but just a couple of key moments that we keep losing.
That is the difference in each of these last two
test matches that the All Blacks have lost.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I guess on the one hand you could say
that there were just, like you say, a handful of
moments that we lost that were the difference. Only five
points in it. Seven points went missing off the tee.
There were a couple of one-on-one, but I mean, I
don't know, particularly that Jesse Creel thing, I think that'll
probably pop up in the video session, you'd imagine, Joey,
but Who would have made that tackle, you know?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, I was like, oh, poor old Boomfah. Boomfah Carter,
Leroy Carter. He'd done everything so well, you know, on
the edge. He'd flown up, brilliant line speed, but then
sort of chucked the handbrake on, a bit like probably
watching Jerry try to tackle. He just chucked the handbrake on.
We say in the footy circles, sort of sat on
(02:27):
the toilet a.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Little bit, which gave.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Which gave Jesse Creel a little bit of time, just
a bit of footwork, power to get around the outside
of him. And man, what a shot it was, you know,
when they showed the replay and he's like running back,
chasing him with all his heart, like just absolutely pissed
off at himself that he hadn't made that initial tackle.
But yeah, look, a couple of individual things like that, that,
(02:52):
you know, that does happen in a test match, right?
And I don't think you can hang your head on
goal-kicking and a couple of missed tackles. That's the reason. But,
I mean, obviously, in those bigger games, I know it's
a cliche again, but it is always just a couple
of moments that decide it.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Joe Wheeler, you've played rugby at the highest level. You
understand what it's like. When you're playing as well as
the All Blacks did in the first 25, 30 minutes
of that test match, and those passes were going perfectly
to hand. They were going right out in front.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
It looked crisp.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
It looked real good. It looked better than the All
Blacks have looked for a long time.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Campaign footy, Jerry.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Sometimes, Joey, in those situations, can you think, oh, today's
a good day. We're on today.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Today we're on.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And then all of a sudden, you forget that you're
in a test match. So in that situation, is it
sometimes easy to... I don't know. Do you kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Complacent?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Are you accusing the All Blacks of complacency, Jack?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't know what it was, but in the first.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I'm not having it, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
No way.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
As a fan, I got complacent, Joey.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
You got complacent.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I was looking to the World Cup. I was like, geez, okay,
here we go. We're on the way up. We're going
to win the World Cup in the first half.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You switched off, didn't you?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I switched off. You were texting your rassi after 30
minutes going, get that in here, mate.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We're bringing that cup home. Man, we looked good. We
were bringing our William home. We were so good. Oh, yeah. Jeez,
we were good. I know what you're saying. I was
sitting there watching it with my cousin and we're going, jeez,
how good are they looking? This is champagne rugby. Man,
they're playing a good brand.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And you're right.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
And I think... I reckon there was obviously the Adi
Savia injury, but then there was just before halftime where
you're like, oh, there's a couple of moments there that
just got them back in the game and you felt
that momentum swing back to them. But no, I don't think,
(04:50):
I certainly would hope that they didn't get complacent, Gerry,
and I'm sure in front of 94,000 screaming South Africans
in one of the most hostile rugby environments in the
world that they would probably know that they're in a
test match and that they've got to buckle up.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, there's a few. There's a few close.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's a few close.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Joey, you know a thing or two about the dark arts.
We've talked about it last week. I think this has
been the biggest story in the media, the scrums, and
I think also the line-outs. I saw we were going
to the front again. Are they just that much better
than us in both those aspects?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
They're doing a brilliant job of... trying to, what we
call two pod, so two jumpers up at all times
to put pressure on one, the hooker, so you've got
to throw it over them. So Asafo-Omoa did pretty well,
but you've got to be super accurate, because remember, you've
got Peter Steff to toy, you've got the two massive locks.
(05:45):
Peter Steff, who's, where's the number seven jersey, but he's
two metres tall. So you've got three guys, two metres
plus in that position, So they have a compact, and
then you throw in the mix that they've got their
massive props who are throwing them another 30 centimetres higher
than anyone else. So it is a really tough ask
(06:06):
to win your line-out ball when they are two-potting against
you and putting double line-out pressure on. So... Look, yeah,
it's a real challenge, and it is also hard when
they are constantly trying to slow the game down a
little bit because that's our point of difference as well.
We need to bring fatigue into the match, and we haven't,
(06:27):
other than probably the first test, we haven't been able
to do that. And I've sort of dictated terms in
terms of the tempo of the game. So when you
go to set piece, we want to be jogging there,
we want to be getting in and out as quick
as possible, whereas they want to be slowing it down
giving themselves as much time as possible to build pressure,
but also brings in that little bit of uncertainty into
(06:48):
the callers' mind, which then adds time, which then gives
them the opportunity to get in the air, move their
line out and all that. So there's a whole lot
of mind games that goes on in that respect. I
think our scrum and parts looked OK, but again, that
is so dominant there. Hopefully Ethan DeGroote is right for
the fourth test because I think... He was obviously playing
(07:10):
on one knee in the first. If that's right, then
I think he'll obviously come in to start and that
will hopefully help shore up our scrum a little bit
and then they can bring on our bomb squad, so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Manu squad.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Joey Wheeler, just before you go, both teams obviously already
in the US, they took a charter flight together. You
can't obviously have all of those people flying business class
because there's just not enough business class seats in a plane.
Who was in premium economy? Who was in business? Who
sat at the back of the plane? Any intel on
what happened with the flight over to Baltimore?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
No, I don't have any intel, but what generally would
happen in that scenario would be your big boys get
preferential treatment in terms of the business class seats and seniority, obviously.
What I was hoping that they'd do on that Baltimore
flight is a couple of the big boys go toe-to-toe, one-for-one,
in terms of beers, and go full David.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Boone on it, so you can knock the most off
between Joburg and Baltimore. What is that flight time? Just
out of interest, what is that flight time? Can we
do a little bit of math on what we think
they could knock over?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think it must be a decent, I mean, that
must be 14 hours plus, surely.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You got that?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
17.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
17 hours.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
17. They should be at around, you know, if they're
going two every hour, they'll be 28 to 30 beers.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh, at least. At least.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Who would be our champion?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
A couple of nightcaps.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Who would you nominate, Joey?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Grota would go close.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I think, yeah, Gore's finest. You'd have to go the
southern man, chuck.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Him in there from an all-black perspective. Yeah, who else?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Up against Wilco Lowe.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
The big ox.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Joe Wheeler, thank you.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Hopefully Malcolm marks and we can put him to sleep
and leave him on the plane.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Is that good? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Joe Wheeler, thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Much appreciated. See you, mate.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Talk to you later on.
South Africa have taken the lead in the four-match series.
Four matches against the All Blacks. Not a three-test series.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's a four-test series. No, a lot of people are
saying it's a three-match, only the South African ones matter.
That's not us, man. The Baltimore-Balton is still a test match.
In fact, I'd say it's most important of all. I
think so, too, and whoever wins that wins the series.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, they won 29-24 in Soweto. The South Africans now
lead the rugby's greatest rivalry 2-1 ahead of the all-important
decider in Baltimore this weekend. Joining us now, disgraced former
Highlander Sky Sport commentator, Joey Wheeler, a fascinating game of rugby.
And the cliche, a game of two halves, Joey Wheeler,
has never been more true.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Exactly. Or the Bolton in Baltimore. I like that, fellas.
I'm on that bandwagon, too. I really enjoy that. That's
all that matters right now.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Yeah, you're right, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was, yeah, the old cliche, a game of two halves.
I thought, Man, the All Blacks started so well after
being slow starters. In Cape Town, it was great to
see them come out of the blocks and playing some
enterprising and entertaining footy. But then, yeah, just as they do,
the Staffers, man, they're clinical and man, they're good when
(01:11):
the game gets into an arm wrestle. Yes. They go
to their set piece, they go back to their big
old scrum, their big old line out, and they just
absolutely suffocate you into submission. And that is exactly what
they did. And Soweto, they were so clinical and ruthless
in so many areas. Again, the All Blacks showing some promise,
(01:35):
but just a couple of key moments that we keep losing.
That is the difference in each of these last two
test matches that the All Blacks have lost.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I guess on the one hand you could say
that there were just, like you say, a handful of
moments that we lost that were the difference. Only five
points in it. Seven points went missing off the tee.
There were a couple of one-on-one, but I mean, I
don't know, particularly that Jesse Creel thing, I think that'll
probably pop up in the video session, you'd imagine, Joey,
but Who would have made that tackle, you know?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, I was like, oh, poor old Boomfah. Boomfah Carter,
Leroy Carter. He'd done everything so well, you know, on
the edge. He'd flown up, brilliant line speed, but then
sort of chucked the handbrake on, a bit like probably
watching Jerry try to tackle. He just chucked the handbrake on.
We say in the footy circles, sort of sat on
(02:27):
the toilet a.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Little bit, which gave.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Which gave Jesse Creel a little bit of time, just
a bit of footwork, power to get around the outside
of him. And man, what a shot it was, you know,
when they showed the replay and he's like running back,
chasing him with all his heart, like just absolutely pissed
off at himself that he hadn't made that initial tackle.
But yeah, look, a couple of individual things like that, that,
(02:52):
you know, that does happen in a test match, right?
And I don't think you can hang your head on
goal-kicking and a couple of missed tackles. That's the reason. But,
I mean, obviously, in those bigger games, I know it's
a cliche again, but it is always just a couple
of moments that decide it.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Joe Wheeler, you've played rugby at the highest level. You
understand what it's like. When you're playing as well as
the All Blacks did in the first 25, 30 minutes
of that test match, and those passes were going perfectly
to hand. They were going right out in front.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
It looked crisp.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
It looked real good. It looked better than the All
Blacks have looked for a long time.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Campaign footy, Jerry.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Sometimes, Joey, in those situations, can you think, oh, today's
a good day. We're on today.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Today we're on.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And then all of a sudden, you forget that you're
in a test match. So in that situation, is it
sometimes easy to... I don't know. Do you kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Complacent?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Are you accusing the All Blacks of complacency, Jack?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't know what it was, but in the first.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I'm not having it, Jerry.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
No way.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
As a fan, I got complacent, Joey.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
You got complacent.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I was looking to the World Cup. I was like, geez, okay,
here we go. We're on the way up. We're going
to win the World Cup in the first half.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You switched off, didn't you?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I switched off. You were texting your rassi after 30
minutes going, get that in here, mate.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We're bringing that cup home. Man, we looked good. We
were bringing our William home. We were so good. Oh, yeah. Jeez,
we were good. I know what you're saying. I was
sitting there watching it with my cousin and we're going, jeez,
how good are they looking? This is champagne rugby. Man,
they're playing a good brand.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And you're right.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
And I think... I reckon there was obviously the Adi
Savia injury, but then there was just before halftime where
you're like, oh, there's a couple of moments there that
just got them back in the game and you felt
that momentum swing back to them. But no, I don't think,
(04:50):
I certainly would hope that they didn't get complacent, Gerry,
and I'm sure in front of 94,000 screaming South Africans
in one of the most hostile rugby environments in the
world that they would probably know that they're in a
test match and that they've got to buckle up.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, there's a few. There's a few close.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's a few close.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Joey, you know a thing or two about the dark arts.
We've talked about it last week. I think this has
been the biggest story in the media, the scrums, and
I think also the line-outs. I saw we were going
to the front again. Are they just that much better
than us in both those aspects?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
They're doing a brilliant job of... trying to, what we
call two pod, so two jumpers up at all times
to put pressure on one, the hooker, so you've got
to throw it over them. So Asafo-Omoa did pretty well,
but you've got to be super accurate, because remember, you've
got Peter Steff to toy, you've got the two massive locks.
(05:45):
Peter Steff, who's, where's the number seven jersey, but he's
two metres tall. So you've got three guys, two metres
plus in that position, So they have a compact, and
then you throw in the mix that they've got their
massive props who are throwing them another 30 centimetres higher
than anyone else. So it is a really tough ask
(06:06):
to win your line-out ball when they are two-potting against
you and putting double line-out pressure on. So... Look, yeah,
it's a real challenge, and it is also hard when
they are constantly trying to slow the game down a
little bit because that's our point of difference as well.
We need to bring fatigue into the match, and we haven't,
(06:27):
other than probably the first test, we haven't been able
to do that. And I've sort of dictated terms in
terms of the tempo of the game. So when you
go to set piece, we want to be jogging there,
we want to be getting in and out as quick
as possible, whereas they want to be slowing it down
giving themselves as much time as possible to build pressure,
but also brings in that little bit of uncertainty into
(06:48):
the callers' mind, which then adds time, which then gives
them the opportunity to get in the air, move their
line out and all that. So there's a whole lot
of mind games that goes on in that respect. I
think our scrum and parts looked OK, but again, that
is so dominant there. Hopefully Ethan DeGroote is right for
the fourth test because I think... He was obviously playing
(07:10):
on one knee in the first. If that's right, then
I think he'll obviously come in to start and that
will hopefully help shore up our scrum a little bit
and then they can bring on our bomb squad, so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Manu squad.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Joey Wheeler, just before you go, both teams obviously already
in the US, they took a charter flight together. You
can't obviously have all of those people flying business class
because there's just not enough business class seats in a plane.
Who was in premium economy? Who was in business? Who
sat at the back of the plane? Any intel on
what happened with the flight over to Baltimore?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
No, I don't have any intel, but what generally would
happen in that scenario would be your big boys get
preferential treatment in terms of the business class seats and seniority, obviously.
What I was hoping that they'd do on that Baltimore
flight is a couple of the big boys go toe-to-toe, one-for-one,
in terms of beers, and go full David.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Boone on it, so you can knock the most off
between Joburg and Baltimore. What is that flight time? Just
out of interest, what is that flight time? Can we
do a little bit of math on what we think
they could knock over?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think it must be a decent, I mean, that
must be 14 hours plus, surely.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You got that?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
17.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
17 hours.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
17. They should be at around, you know, if they're
going two every hour, they'll be 28 to 30 beers.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh, at least. At least.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Who would be our champion?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
A couple of nightcaps.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Who would you nominate, Joey?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Grota would go close.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I think, yeah, Gore's finest. You'd have to go the
southern man, chuck.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Him in there from an all-black perspective. Yeah, who else?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Up against Wilco Lowe.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
The big ox.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Joe Wheeler, thank you.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Hopefully Malcolm marks and we can put him to sleep
and leave him on the plane.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Is that good? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Joe Wheeler, thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Much appreciated. See you, mate.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Talk to you later on.
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