March 24, 2026 • 38 mins
Today on the pod the guys sit down with Sir Wayne "Buck" Shelford. He has so many fascinating takes on rugby from previous times and today - plus he tells us about the Lump Lottery, and how guys can test themselves for testicular cancer!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Daily bespoke content that you won't find on the radio
show The Hurdarchy Breakfast Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Sue win Shaffer joins us on The Hurdarcy Breakfast Podcast today.
What a great pleasure. Thank you so much for coming
him back.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It's good to be here, you know, it's been in
the Huraki station for a long long time.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Where did you come in from today?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Where are you at the moment? Where are you based?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Based in Red Beach and so I live with my daughter.
We sold our big house and I moved in with
my daughter and my wife. We've got another house down
in Thames so that they get away place. Even the
kids end up going down the all the time to
think getting away. So my brothers and Wi, my brothers
and sisters, sister, they use it if they wanted the
(00:44):
house down in Thames to get away from them.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And oh that's nice you're in today. Because a testicular
cancer is something that Kiwi men. It's very preventable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It is very preventable.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And it's a message that's that is dear to your heart,
and it's dear to a lot of people's hearts actually,
and it's one of.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Those things that many years ago. When I come back
from overseas and you know, I had my cancer. While
I was going through chemo, I was actually in the
chemo area where I was in norse Youll Hospital. There
was nothing about men's health on the walls. It was
all female. And that's why I joined up with prostate cancer.
(01:32):
Now it's gesticular cancers with prostate as well. In their
month is April. And this is all about getting the
younger guys because it's a younger man's cancer, so between
teenage years and forty. So it's about looking after our
boys and our young men and making sure they get
through a good life.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Why why are we so bad at checking this kind
of stuff as Kievy did?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, maybe it's because of Wes staunch and we're so
staunched that I'm tough airs and I'll get through. You know,
nothing's going to hurt us. If you don't get checked,
you don't know, you know, and then before you if
you do have it, if you get it late, the
chances are you're going to die because once it gets
out of side of any cancer gets outside of where
(02:18):
it is, it's going to go through your body and
then all of a sudden a few months later you
can be on the other side of a bloody pine box.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That question that me and I just asked here is
such an interesting one because it's tricky, isn't it. There
is something great about the just get on with it
mentality that a lot of New Zealand New Zealand as
men and women actually both have. I think it's definitely
a part of our DNA is that we don't like
to make a fuss, which is actually a great thing
(02:51):
to have.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
In some aspects of your life. I think that's what
makes us so good at like sport. We were overrepresented
on sporting stage around the world, and it's because we
just just get on with it.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You'll be right.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You know, whatever aches and pains or whatever's going on
with you, you'll get by. But it's a bit of
a double edged sword, isn't it, because when something goes wrong,
you've still got that same attitude to that.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, but you know, at the end of the day,
your health is the only thing you have. When you
get old, you know, all your kids have grown up
in God, you've got the grandkids and the great grandkids.
The only thing that you've got left is your health.
And if you don't look after yourself when you're a
young person, you might never reach that age of sixty
(03:34):
five to seventy. And so you know, a lot, a
lot of our mighty Polynesian people are actually dying very
young because they don't go to the doctor. And so
you know, I'm very proactive for our people, your Mory
people and Polynesians to actually go to the doctor, you know,
and even to companies to try and set up a
system where where it's basically they actually help our Maori
(03:59):
and Anesians to actually get into a doctor and they
pay the fee, you know, because you know it's I
pay seventy seventy five dollars to go to my doctor
where I live. But there's a whole order down and
down in Thames William. You know, my wife works and
it's fifteen bucks. Yeah right, you know, so chalk and
cheese and so you know there's the multi people down there.
(04:22):
They've got mighty health problems down in the Hodaki huge, right,
and yet you know the whole order is really cheap.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, you go to the doctor now genuinely, there's a
reason why you don't go in because you're like particularly
now everything's so bloody expensive. If you look at it,
you get seventy five bucks. Alf I'll be right for
another week or two, you know, so I'll hold onto
that seventy five bucks.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I won't go this week.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, I think I think that all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think they're too and I think a big part
of it is taking responsibility for your health. So you're
the one that ultimately has to look after yourself. And
if you're not going to look after yourself, there's not
going to be some other person that's going to be out.
This is the I think this is a tough message
to get through to people.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It is, but I would like to see it, you
know myself. And it's another just another thing in the
dynamics of the way we run our country is basically
everyone should be regulated in regards to their health. You know,
get in there and they actually force you to go in,
go and get your health check every year, and that
(05:24):
way there, we'll probably cut the bloody health bills in half.
A New Zealant, Yeah, because it's regulated. You go and
get the you go and get your blue and warine
for your car or your track or whatever it is.
But we lose over three hundred and fifty people a year,
and we are you're losing prostate cancer six hundred and
six hundred and forty people a year in this one here,
(05:46):
particularly cancer for young men, you know, over one hundred.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, I think in some countries. I feel like South
Korea's got something that happens when you get to a
certain age, you go in for like some full body
scan or something like, they give you.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
The foot fall. Well, the thing is, aren't they lucky?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know, really we haven't got a health system like that,
And so thing is to actually get into a health
system or even even a lot of the big big
companies in New Zealand, why aren't they actually screening all
the people for their health because they're paying them. They
want them to be at work all day every day,
and you know how people take off them a bad
days and stuff and just say I'm not going to
(06:22):
go into the work, I'm sick, and they don't go
to the doctor. Yeah, if you go to if you
get sack at work, do you actually have to you
actually say to them, make sure you bring me that
evidence that you went to the doctor. N that piece
of paper that you build you Yeah. See, Yeah, things
like that, you know, and basically you'd probably cut a
lot of our health problems out.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We asked our listeners. We told our listeners that you
were coming in for the podcast, and we said, do
you know there's any questions that you want Puck to answer?
And look, there were hundreds hundreds of questions. Some of
them I'm not gonna you're a man of great there's
something I'm not going to ask.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Will save you from some of them.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
It doesn't matter any questions a question I just would
be too scared to ask.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's whright. That's where I get to one of one
of the questions that came in. I thought, oh yeah, no,
that's quite interesting. And you give asked us all the time,
I know, so be it with me. Nineteen eighty six
not you're playing for the All Blacks yea, and that's
ridiculously fiery test match against a crazy French team who
(07:28):
were fired up as all I wanted. As a couple
of questions around that one is do you know who
who did it rucked you?
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Was?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It? Was it a rut?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It was I was standing, I tackled them, put them
on the floor and basically kicked me in the leagues.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Do you know, so you know who it was?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Daniel did not take one?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay because it was there was a discussion that was
Eric seanp okay, Eric okay?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And was it a sprugue? Yeah? What were the spring
that one? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So what position did he play?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Who the guy hooker? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
See that was because front row is long as sprugs.
Like if that was a winger, that might not have
done as much damage.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah. Well you know we were wearing twenty three middle
sprigs in those days. They didn't know wed bloody plastic.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, blades, plastic blades that cut your.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Two plastic players. Yeah, I agree with it.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah. Did they used to do did they used to
do spread checks on you? Because I remember all growing up. Yeah,
they used to do spread chicks pre game. You get
you'll get on your knees and the reff would walk
along behind you and don't don't.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
He'd come in and you'd have to stand and show
you your boots as they walked around, and he'd rub
his hand over see if they're see if they're actually sharp? Yeah,
sometimes you had to file them down because they do
get sharp when you're walking on concrete. Yeah, when you
cross the fields. That's why they started putting greens and
on the concrete areas so you wouldn't actually skid off them.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Did they Yeah? Did they check the French changing rooms
that day?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Were they home refs? Did they have home refs in?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah? No, no, no international refs, international reofs.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh yeah back then, because surely you could have another
pair of boots sitting there though.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, you always had another pair of boots carried too,
just in case you've forgot one.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Yeah, a couple of spear sprogues. What are you is
the biggest difference between rugby now and then? I know
rugby is changing quite a lot at the moment, but
if you're watching Super Rugby this year, what do you
is the biggest sort of difference.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, some of the new rules that they've just brought
out are really different, you know, like you know, the
contesting in the air. I think they're going to be
going like like not rugby League. So if you go
up for the ball you have to have your hands
up in the air. Yeah. And the thing is that's
(09:58):
one of the things that outside the probably the All Blacks,
which they don't do a great job of it. But
the only aerial ball carry you know that it's good.
There's the young Polonesian will But are you call Clark? Yeah, Caleb, Yeah,
he's the only one who takes the ball above his
head all the time. Oh yeah, yeah. Like AFL, Well theoretically,
(10:21):
why don't have an AFL coach coming in and teaching
all the backs how to do it. Yeah, that's a
great point.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I feel like we used to be really good at it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Well we did, but we were you know, you knew
you were't getting knocked by the runners running through. Yeah,
you only have to club them and then you get
end upside down.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So now in the NRL you have to because they
can check the slow mo replays. They'll have a look
at where the players, looking where their hands are. They
have to be making a genuine attempt because what was
happening is guys have just come through like a cannon ball.
Pretend that they were making an attempt on the ball,
but they weren't. Do you think that'll clean up? Because
it's I think fans in particular are a bit anti
all the kicking. They want to say a bit more
(10:57):
running rugby. Do you think that'll clean that up a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, well, by going to a free kick off scrums
is better than going to a penalty. So they can
actually play now straight off the halfway with half back
puts the ball on, he can just skip the ball,
you know, he goes free kick, you can take it
from the middle of the scrum rather than run to
the back and go. So basically you have to be
(11:19):
really weary of defensively of your scrum dynamics because if
you get pushed like that and enjoy you open side
flanker is probably the right side flanker is out of
kilter with defense.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah yeah, And then you said that they'll basically run
the move. They were going to run anyway, but it's
just the half back taps it instead of having to
do the whole scrump.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
But the thing is, if you look at the game
of today, you very really see moves off the back
of the scrum because I don't know what it is,
but the backs think they've got a bloody monitor, you know,
bloody they want the ball. Every time the number ten
ars for the ball. Well, I said the fox that
you're not getting it. Something we just play down the
(12:00):
blind sides go down the blind just the eight nine
or eight nine six return ball inside things like that,
or hit the wing or the fullback coming in, those
sort of things and short sight and at speed. And
we used to catch every team out because they didn't
know what we're doing. We have so many moves off
the back of the scrum. We'd manipulate the scrum would
(12:21):
go up on their line and we just we're go
ahead and post it on the right hand side, tight handside,
just post swing off him, and we play moves off
the back of the scrum, three or four moves, all different,
but you know, they didn't know which one we're using,
whether we're going to be driving off it, or whether
we're going to be hitting the twelve with the ball.
You know, because number eight I was playing to the
(12:41):
twelves and I'd go around and protect them. The six
had come round and he'd crossed out over the ten.
Little things like that. Now we turn them like that,
they're out of position and then Lucy usually drops his
bind and it's a penalty anyway.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, the other thing is when you watch when you
watch game from you know, up until probably about even
nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine, you see how quick.
The scrum sit man, Like I watched that eighty seven
final recently, and like the the reff would just put
a mark down real quick. The front rows are all better.
(13:17):
That just basically sorted it out, you know. The front
rows kind of sorted things out, and the ball was
on and that was it was gone, like real quick.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nowadays, oh my god, well you you hardly have any
scrums it down even.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Eight yeah, yeah, but they reset them about four times each.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And everyone's trying to get so low. You know, obviously
you want to get as low as you can that
you are, the more powerful you are. Yeah, but now
you're sitting so low.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So back in the day, they actually folded it and
so they were standing taller. Yeah, and you you know
that the head didn't come for a few years. Then
they started lowering themselves and it was the hitting yeah yeah,
And so we had to change that dynamic. And we
you know, we most of our scrums anyway, but when
the props were doing it, because they were higher, was
(14:06):
easier to control the ball hit the back because these
clowns had played locks to kick the balls on the.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
R I reckon still though, and I'm sure you'll have
a thought on this. But that old style of rugby
when you watch it now, it was a battle like
out There was basically a battle and the good games
were kind of just controlled by the players themselves and
they sought things out themselves. But the pace that it
(14:34):
was played, and the other part of the commitment to
the breakdown was you had to commit players because you
needed to go forward because if the ball did get
tied up at all, then the team going forward got
the ball which actually dragged him forwards, which created more space.
You know out why and I think when they use it,
(14:56):
use it or lose it. Rule came along that changed
every because all of a sudden, teams wanted to tie
the ball up. Before that, you didn't want to tie
the ball up. You wanted to go forward, basically is
what you're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Well. After our dominance through the eighties late eighties, they
changed the dynamics of the rolling mall. They got rid
of it for a while.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I love the rolling bloody more.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
But rolling more the crowd goes on. People don't like it, Yeah,
a lot of people don't like it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But nowadays you go along to a game, if the
all backs have got a rolling mall going it is.
The crowd never sounds louder. The crowd comes in behind
it and it's like, you know, people love to see that.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
But you know, every team around the world changed, and
they changed from you know when they got the rolling
moll back then, they developed their rolling more better than
what it was back in our day. You know, some
of them just didn't put enough effort into it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Nowadays you've got hookahs just about leading the Super Rugby
and tri scored because of all the rolling malls off
the back of the lineouts.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Did you see that?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Was it Italy and the sixth Nations the other day
and they did this thing where they didn't commit any
players to the breakdown, which meant there's no offline off sideline.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yes, well nine feet.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
But they were because there was no one in the breakdown.
They were just standing basically what looked like in an
off side position and interfering with the other players in
the round.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
It wasn't calling it, well, it's if they've you've got
to have one and two of the opposition to call
it a rock year on the ground. But it could
be a mole that just collapses and it's only one
person and he is a teckler. But even if you
don't have a teckler, sometimes the techler doesn't go. He tackles,
he's up really quickly. Yeah, and he just sets the
line because it's not a tackle anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I'll be noticing more and more least less.
Like I said, they all best doing that a little
bit too, is that they'll go, they'll techle with guy
and then they'll all getting back.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, straight away.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It was weird you mentioned before, and one of the
questions that came through on Facebook was why has the
eight nine moved down the blind side not being utilized
more as we see more and more explosive and skilled
number eights.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Because well, it's part and parcel of probably the modern game.
They want to play with the ball and so so
that we play with the ball. So you know, Foxy
always said to me, he says, one of the things
about doing moves off the back of the scrum, we
always were on the front foot. We were never going
(17:23):
sideways or backwards. And I demanded it from the locks
and the props that we actually do the moves as
fast as possible, cleanly, bring it through the scrum, and
then we just affected moves all the time, and Foxy
just says, let me, I love it because you guys
get on the front foot. You might go two or
three phases and we just bashed the shit out of
(17:43):
them and then just give it to Foxy and then
go score tries. By the time, So by the time
you go down the big blind side, especially the right
hand side, the right hand side, you bring your teen
over to defend, you bring your fifteen over to help
the wing, and your nine go back there and then
all of a sudden you've got less backs to play into.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Exactly, you know, So you're sucking them in.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
You're sucking them over to one side of the field,
and they have to get there because if we break
them once, then twice and three times, you know, you
can't stay out there for really, because we're going to
score down the gym.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, cheer any Wells and Mania Stuart find them on
Instagram at Hidarki Breakfast. Kerri and Manaia joined the complate
the Hidarki Breakfast discussion group on Facebook for more.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I look at all those players that you play, I mean,
Grant Fox like I Actually it was it was kind
of the micro skills as well that a lot of
people probably don't understand has a passing game.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Has scored a try in his life?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, no, but that has passing always there. And Dan
Carter was like that too. You just look at what
Dan Carter passes the ball. You're never up here, you know.
It just gives you that extra tiny little bit of
time when you're playing inside.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I suppose you're going to look at it and say,
do you want is it? How? How long is the pass?
You see? So if the passes in the air for
another second, that means, you know, so it means he's
tenis standing away too far away. He had get it
going a little bit closer. He cut down the time
and he can play another part. And missed the center,
(19:15):
missed the inside seat and go to the outside his seat.
It very quickly. So little things like that. And Foxy
did enjoy the halves of that era, which was David
Kirk and Brucey Dean's because BRUCEI used to actually do
the spiral, but he set the ball up by that hand.
It's easier to catch. Yeah, So you know, just little
(19:38):
things like that, and Brucey Dean's and the guys of
that era were better kickers. From the base of the
scrum much better. Brucey Dean's he had he had all
the kicks over the top, so he had the real
high kick. We'd punt the point at the ball, and
then the other one, which was you'd light the ball
like that and you'd kick this end here. Then it
would just go like that, go over the scrum, but
(20:00):
ounce bounce, bounce, bounce. And he had the grubber kick
that when he got the pass from me, he'd actually
hit the ball and then it'll go out there behind
the wing, then go out We force them into a line.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's funny when you're saying all these things, I'm picturing
it sort of thing is.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So easy because these guys who were really good at
their own skills, and so it's not me to tell
them how to kick a ball. But at the end
of the day, they're kicking and it's all like terrible.
You think, so at the moment, even the tens, the
three tens we've got there, at the moment, you know,
their kicking skills are not there. Great. They just don't
I don't think they They practice pace kicking all the time,
(20:37):
and yet they're only up to probably eighty eighty something percent. Yeah,
eighty three percent, you know for most of our kickers.
But even Barrett, you know he's been there a long time.
He swings between fifty five percent and seventy eight percent something.
Rather there, he swings a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
All of a sudden we changed to this kind of
running first five thing for a while there. I mean
the South Africans they would always make sure that they
had an amazing kicking first five.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah. Look, very really missed a kicker. Yeah, you know
he was close to close to you know, ninety five
percent kicker. Fano'bodica, who didn't get a lot of football
time as his test mats because of Foxy. When he
went to England went to Wigan, he said, how am
I going to make money if I'm not in the
(21:24):
starting lineup? So you get a contract, but the wind
bonuses were pretty pretty big and if you're not on
the team, you didn't get it, you know. So he
for him, he actually decided to bug it. He went
down to the field every day and just kicked and
kicked and kicked, and his wife just take the wall
the balls back, kicked it. He was kicking that team
(21:45):
to wins. From Justice Boot winning by a two point
penalty and he was just winning the winning by one
point two points win, you know, because it was just
so close back in these days in the rug Belieue,
because you had Wigan who was the top team, and
St Helen's was right next door. They're not far away,
(22:06):
but Leeds was right next door, sorry to Bradford, and
Wigan was on the other side. But man, they kicking,
they were very good kickers. So during that last year,
I suppose no one knew this. But in eighty nine,
after that that tour we got back from overseas, I
(22:27):
think it was about seven all blacks defected to rugby League.
Daryl Halligan, Sean, John Rando, Bodka, Yeah, Craigness, Matthew Richie,
Matthew Ridge, a couple more. But they're all outside backs.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And so so we had a big hole here for
a while, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Johnny t Johnny John Shuster, No he didn't, John Shuste
went later.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
He went later.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, he was a good.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Player, Johnny Schuster, Johnny team they went, you know, and
so we lost a lot of players. Yeah, and then
then come building up for worl C Cup ninety one.
I wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No, I remember the sites.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But at the end of the day, you know, they
picked the team and they were they were terrible.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Did you get a call from anyone to say that
because you were the All Black captain in nineteen ninety
did you do a call from anybody in that ninety
one situation saying you're not going to be the captain anymore?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What they just you just found out when they named
the team.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Well, Grizz and I talked about it, and I said, well,
where's you o the coach? What can I do? Nothing?
Good luck to you? Really? So what Gris disappeared?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
But did you read it in the paper or hear
it on the radio?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
How we talked about it right right? Yeah, we talked
about it. And so at the end of the day,
it's the politics was huge between Auckland and Canterbury with
the ends that are you because Grizz couldn't get his
own team, like his own coaching stuff. He said, no,
you're going to have the person we give you, and
that was John Hart. They co coached that that World
Cup in ninety It wasn't And the thing is Gris
(24:02):
was doing his thing and Hardy was doing his thing,
and they just never jelled well toge.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But wasn't Grizz looking after the forwards and John Hart
was looking after.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The bad That's right, But there was no you know,
the head coach. You know, Hardy's got his style of
coaching and Grizz has got his. Chris is not a dummy.
Everyone thought he was a dummy and a drunk and
things like that, but he was a very smart rugby coach.
What and you got to look at how Cannarby played
over those years and if you had any trouble with
players you again, Bloody sorted out himself.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean the All Blacks record under
him was great. Yeah, it was until the ninety one
World Cup. Was that weird to watch that and know
that you were part of that setup and then all
of a sudden you weren't.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Well, I went to the opening dinner and because I
was over there, I was living over there anyway. So
opening dinner and the closing dinner, and they come in
the closing dinner and the All Blacks were just like trash,
absolutely passed, you know, full of full of full of
bulls and they came over. Their ties are Undonne and
(25:08):
some of them didn't have their ties on. The shirts
had never been ironed straight out of a bag?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Is this the opening dinner closing?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And basically they were they were They were very poor.
It was very very poor. He had a completely divided
teams Hardy all the Auckland is against the rest. Yeah,
so it's quite a divided too, and you know, it
was sad, but this is the politics of the game,
(25:37):
you know. And and so grizz never took Gris got
Hearty because he's you know, the Aukland coach and won well,
you know over the period of time, especially in the
mid nineties, No, not mid nineties, mid eighties, so that's
when Auckland took over.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Really, do you see any similarities with the because obviously
there's been the whole coaching debacle this year with the
all back. Do you think there are any similarities there?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, well, well, let Dave Rennie have his own choice
of player coach, the ones he feels good with, because
he wouldn't work with them if they weren't any good.
And so then as he's come through the system really
really well, and you know, he got he got shafted
by Australia by Eddie Jones over there, that's for sure,
(26:24):
and I reckon they would have actually got through the
pool play easy if he would have stayed on. He's
a good coach. He's better than what Dave Rennie is
a very smart coach. And don't underestimate him. You know,
he's you know, he'll drop you just like that if
you don't front up.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But how much and you know this from playing under
numerous coaches, how much of it as coaches when it
comes to the All Blacks, particularly because look, Steve Hanson
was clearly a great coach, and people who played underhim
liked him. And you know, Graham Henry great coach, but
also Steve Henson. I mean, he had some great players
and he had a team there that were he inherited
(27:00):
a great team. You do, but so did oh Raser,
Ian Foster.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I Ian Foster and heard a great team too. But
I said to myself, this is what I expect of
these people is because he was there for eight years
and then he done his tenure, which was twelve, but
he never added to the dynamics of the team. I
wanted to see at least ten to twelve percent, but
(27:31):
left lift and everything. Yeah, you know, the dynamics of
new moves, but there's no moves in the backline, no
moves in the scrum. You just throw the ball around.
That's all you're doing. You're expecting, you know, to live
off the mistakes of other people. The other team was
not always going to happen. You know. South Africa don't
give the board up easily, do They don't make a
(27:51):
lot of mistakes. Game that we lost badly, you know,
by fifty points. You know, they never change their dynamics
of their game halftime. So the reckord did and took
us one up front and smashed the shit out of us. Yeah, yeah, basically,
and then they started running it late in the last
fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Or was that that one? Was that two years ago
or something? Was it in New Zealand? That was the
one in New Zealand and they played well that day.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
They walloped us. Yeah, you know, but the thing is,
we can't come back from it because we haven't trained it.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Do you think that's what there is?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Sure? With Razor was as well.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
They thought he was going to add that ten twelve
percent on top and it didn't seem that he had
in those two years.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Or was he actually coaching. What I've read, he wasn't
coaching the other players were the other coach was doing
all coaching. He might have just you know, listening to
what he was saying. Yeah, you know, I just doing
the culture, looking after the culture. Yeah, well, you know,
how is the culture team dynamics. It should be run
by the team dynamics theoretically is run by the team. Yeah,
(28:52):
either you're your senior players and basically they just report.
Senior players report to the coach. You know.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Do you like this current coaching set up? They just
announced who they have the gut Well.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I know them personally, but they're all, you know, younger guys,
which is cool, you know. And and Dave Rennie would see,
he's days but younger than me. He's or six six
years younger than me. But he's been around a long time,
you know. And that's he's played a lot of rugby himself,
and as we all know, and but but he's coached
(29:26):
around the world too. He's got a bit of offshore stuff.
And Jamie Joseph, well I picked Jamie and Brownie to
be with them, you know, before Robinson actually really really
that was my pick. Yeah, talking all the who's your
pick back, And I said, they've ready to be the
leader forward coach, coach.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, well the other thing. The other thing back is
that they've got they have got arguably the most difficult
assignment that any All Black teams maybe ever had, with
this team going and touring South Africa, because you're up
against not only not only touring South Africa, which I
know or you didn't do in your career. Did you
(30:08):
never got to tour because they were out with Apardeit
during your tenure the Cavaliers in eighty five, but which
would have been tough. But they're not only up against
South African side in South Africa, but they also are
up against a very very good, well organized South African
side in South Africa. How stuff do you think that
(30:30):
assignment's going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, well, they're playing it supersides. Outside of that, all
the games that were against supersides except for the four Tests, right,
so they're not used to playing four two games a week. No, no,
you know, And so thing is all we did was
play two games a week and so there's a little
bit more less time for training, so you get a
(30:54):
little bit of rest. So the a team in my
times are the top team. Well, we would actually you
play the game on a Saturday and probably about six
of us wouldn't make the team for the Tuesday game.
Would give it to all the guys on the beach,
the only heads. You know, we had what five, six,
six players on the beach in those days. Now they've
(31:15):
got eight. Yeah you know, so yeah, So that that's
what happened. All the all the the dirty dirties.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Who were the dirt trackers, dirt trackers.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
They actually played the midweek games and that's how they
played their way into the team is by performing in
those games. So we never lost any We never lost
any games during my room.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
But I think it's going to be tough, I reckon,
I think I think it's going to be tough.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, see other African tour is bloody easy.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
No, and not only that, you're coming against a very
organized South African team who know their game well but
but and know how to beat us and smell they
know where our weaknesses are. And also you've got a
coaching set up who Look, you can't judge Dave rennie
on on the performance of what happens in South Africa.
I mean he said no time, how many games does
he get before he even gets over there for four
tests to prepare, So you know that's all that's going
(32:10):
to be tough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
But the midweekers are actually another challenge as well because
they'll stack their teams. Yeah true.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, at least they have got South African referees.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I hope not. But at the end of the day,
you know, it's test matches, a test match, but playing
a Test match in South Areca is a lot harder
than them, and probably it's it's playing in Auckland like that.
With that record they've got, they just won't lose the
You're blacks. Yeah, they do everything to safeguard their record,
(32:40):
so at least they're coming up with something a record
of Eden Park. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So I'm looking forward to the games though, because I
do like, I love an all blacks South Africa game,
especially the ones that are over in Africa. Something about them.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You know, fifty players overseas well, more than that, a
lot more of Brogie players, but they've got about fifty
South African players overseas and they bring them back for
trainings in South Africa and so that's basically what they're doing,
is South Africa allowing the rest of the world to
actually pay their contracts where they make all their money,
(33:15):
and they bring them back and keep them involved in
this in the top fifty players, and they picked their
team out of the top fifty players.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
All right, we don't come to do that, do we,
because our guys can't aren't eligible.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, well, that's that's the weakness in ours that we
don't do it.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Do you think we would in the future.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, women, black fans are doing it. Black fans have
got a couple of players that they're allowing to play
for New Zealand have been playing to England. Yeah, overseas.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But it's one of those things that you know, we
might have to look at it, you know, like Dave
Renny if he wants to have the big lock back
from Kobe, well I'd bring him back. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Well the All Backs coach, what do you care? You know,
you want the best players on the planet that's eligible
to play for your country.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Game Muwang might have been picked by you know, by
the last coach. But the thing is, you know, I
think he's already got a contract for that.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yeah he's coming back, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So he's coming back. But even even listening to Dave
on some of the talk things. Yeah, see podcasts and
things like that, that he's basically Muwang is actually playing
really really good football up there. But at the end
of the day, playing in Japan and playing.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
In bloody different whole different things, different things. Yeah, hey,
lovely to chat to you back. Always always a great pleasure.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
And we're going to be talking about this or I
felt like we talked about it at the beginning a
little bit at a little bit of stuff there, but
I mean the main message, the main messages are, you know,
make sure you check yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
It's it's a good idea and it's a simple check
that you can do.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Simple check. Learn how to do it online, go on
line to the website and it talks you through it
and then basically you go into the draw to win
that jack ute. Yeah, it's nice, big cards. It's like
those what was the bm W whatever that be? If
that new one it's a b if something. I haven't
(35:21):
seen it.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
I haven't seen it, but I can always do with
the free ute, be honest.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's worth about bloody fifty thousand,
you know. So, yeah, some young man's going to walk
away with a ute and and I think that basically, hopefully,
you know, we can inspire our young people to actually
go and get checked. And one of the weaknesses in
the system that I saw years ago was that men
(35:48):
do not talk to their sons about health and well being.
Talk about rugby and rugby injuries, but they don't talk
about the health ones that we actually have to endear
ourselves to, specially going to for prostate cancer. You can't
see it, gesticulate cancer, you can feel it. And the
woman are way ahead of us in that department where
(36:09):
they checked. They've been checking their breast for the last
twenty years. Yeah, you know, and and their stats are dropping.
Ours are not. Ours are going up and up and
up for our health and well being, especially for prostate cancer.
We were a lot of over three hundred and three
hundred and forty people dip them for that and early detection,
(36:30):
early deteil.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You can sort it out. You can sort it out.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Well. I had my cancer, what was it, nineteen nineteen
or twenty two thousand and seven. I went through through
cancer and basically I've been free ever since. I test
myself some earlier, so ten years ago, I was testing
myself twice a year with bloods and nothing's come up yet.
(36:55):
And so the thing is, but mine will come back,
they said, as you age, what could come back quite easily.
But it'll come back either hard and fast or really
slow and small and it grows slowly.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah, but either way you'll know early.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I'll get my blood steak and every year and yeah,
I've got my date. That's when I go there. Heah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
You just want more people to have to have a
scare to then start the prevention. You want them just
to prevent it without the scare.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, but the scare could actually be the last last
one they do. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get checked regularly,
you know, every year, and get checked, I'll tell you what,
it's a lifesaver. Yeah, you know. And it's worth while.
You're paid for. You pay it for your bloody car,
that bloody thirty bucks to get the thirty five dollars
(37:41):
to get the warrant for your car. You pay that,
but you won't pay it for your life. I just
I just think it's a it's a no brainer. And
for our young kids out there, lead the way, lead
the way, because you're the future of New Zealand. On
the rugby, fielding off the rugby, and then the dynamics
(38:01):
of what they do in their life, you know, because
the health affects everybody.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Sir wain Shelford, thank you so much for coming and
it's always a great pleasure. Good on you.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Thank you guys, nice to talk.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Thank you appreciate it's the jac Youth by the way, fellos,
I've looked it up.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
J A. C. Yeah, big, it's a big wagon.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Jerry and manyah. We hatched the radio show from six
tho ten weekdays, The Hadarky Breakfast
Daily bespoke content that you won't find on the radio
show The Hurdarchy Breakfast Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Sue win Shaffer joins us on The Hurdarcy Breakfast Podcast today.
What a great pleasure. Thank you so much for coming
him back.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It's good to be here, you know, it's been in
the Huraki station for a long long time.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Where did you come in from today?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Where are you at the moment? Where are you based?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Based in Red Beach and so I live with my daughter.
We sold our big house and I moved in with
my daughter and my wife. We've got another house down
in Thames so that they get away place. Even the
kids end up going down the all the time to
think getting away. So my brothers and Wi, my brothers
and sisters, sister, they use it if they wanted the
(00:44):
house down in Thames to get away from them.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And oh that's nice you're in today. Because a testicular
cancer is something that Kiwi men. It's very preventable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It is very preventable.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And it's a message that's that is dear to your heart,
and it's dear to a lot of people's hearts actually,
and it's one of.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Those things that many years ago. When I come back
from overseas and you know, I had my cancer. While
I was going through chemo, I was actually in the
chemo area where I was in norse Youll Hospital. There
was nothing about men's health on the walls. It was
all female. And that's why I joined up with prostate cancer.
(01:32):
Now it's gesticular cancers with prostate as well. In their
month is April. And this is all about getting the
younger guys because it's a younger man's cancer, so between
teenage years and forty. So it's about looking after our
boys and our young men and making sure they get
through a good life.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Why why are we so bad at checking this kind
of stuff as Kievy did?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, maybe it's because of Wes staunch and we're so
staunched that I'm tough airs and I'll get through. You know,
nothing's going to hurt us. If you don't get checked,
you don't know, you know, and then before you if
you do have it, if you get it late, the
chances are you're going to die because once it gets
out of side of any cancer gets outside of where
(02:18):
it is, it's going to go through your body and
then all of a sudden a few months later you
can be on the other side of a bloody pine box.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That question that me and I just asked here is
such an interesting one because it's tricky, isn't it. There
is something great about the just get on with it
mentality that a lot of New Zealand New Zealand as
men and women actually both have. I think it's definitely
a part of our DNA is that we don't like
to make a fuss, which is actually a great thing
(02:51):
to have.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
In some aspects of your life. I think that's what
makes us so good at like sport. We were overrepresented
on sporting stage around the world, and it's because we
just just get on with it.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You'll be right.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You know, whatever aches and pains or whatever's going on
with you, you'll get by. But it's a bit of
a double edged sword, isn't it, because when something goes wrong,
you've still got that same attitude to that.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, but you know, at the end of the day,
your health is the only thing you have. When you
get old, you know, all your kids have grown up
in God, you've got the grandkids and the great grandkids.
The only thing that you've got left is your health.
And if you don't look after yourself when you're a
young person, you might never reach that age of sixty
(03:34):
five to seventy. And so you know, a lot, a
lot of our mighty Polynesian people are actually dying very
young because they don't go to the doctor. And so
you know, I'm very proactive for our people, your Mory
people and Polynesians to actually go to the doctor, you know,
and even to companies to try and set up a
system where where it's basically they actually help our Maori
(03:59):
and Anesians to actually get into a doctor and they
pay the fee, you know, because you know it's I
pay seventy seventy five dollars to go to my doctor
where I live. But there's a whole order down and
down in Thames William. You know, my wife works and
it's fifteen bucks. Yeah right, you know, so chalk and
cheese and so you know there's the multi people down there.
(04:22):
They've got mighty health problems down in the Hodaki huge, right,
and yet you know the whole order is really cheap.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, you go to the doctor now genuinely, there's a
reason why you don't go in because you're like particularly
now everything's so bloody expensive. If you look at it,
you get seventy five bucks. Alf I'll be right for
another week or two, you know, so I'll hold onto
that seventy five bucks.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I won't go this week.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, I think I think that all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think they're too and I think a big part
of it is taking responsibility for your health. So you're
the one that ultimately has to look after yourself. And
if you're not going to look after yourself, there's not
going to be some other person that's going to be out.
This is the I think this is a tough message
to get through to people.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It is, but I would like to see it, you
know myself. And it's another just another thing in the
dynamics of the way we run our country is basically
everyone should be regulated in regards to their health. You know,
get in there and they actually force you to go in,
go and get your health check every year, and that
(05:24):
way there, we'll probably cut the bloody health bills in half.
A New Zealant, Yeah, because it's regulated. You go and
get the you go and get your blue and warine
for your car or your track or whatever it is.
But we lose over three hundred and fifty people a year,
and we are you're losing prostate cancer six hundred and
six hundred and forty people a year in this one here,
(05:46):
particularly cancer for young men, you know, over one hundred.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, I think in some countries. I feel like South
Korea's got something that happens when you get to a
certain age, you go in for like some full body
scan or something like, they give you.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
The foot fall. Well, the thing is, aren't they lucky?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know, really we haven't got a health system like that,
And so thing is to actually get into a health
system or even even a lot of the big big
companies in New Zealand, why aren't they actually screening all
the people for their health because they're paying them. They
want them to be at work all day every day,
and you know how people take off them a bad
days and stuff and just say I'm not going to
(06:22):
go into the work, I'm sick, and they don't go
to the doctor. Yeah, if you go to if you
get sack at work, do you actually have to you
actually say to them, make sure you bring me that
evidence that you went to the doctor. N that piece
of paper that you build you Yeah. See, Yeah, things
like that, you know, and basically you'd probably cut a
lot of our health problems out.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We asked our listeners. We told our listeners that you
were coming in for the podcast, and we said, do
you know there's any questions that you want Puck to answer?
And look, there were hundreds hundreds of questions. Some of
them I'm not gonna you're a man of great there's
something I'm not going to ask.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Will save you from some of them.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
It doesn't matter any questions a question I just would
be too scared to ask.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's whright. That's where I get to one of one
of the questions that came in. I thought, oh yeah, no,
that's quite interesting. And you give asked us all the time,
I know, so be it with me. Nineteen eighty six
not you're playing for the All Blacks yea, and that's
ridiculously fiery test match against a crazy French team who
(07:28):
were fired up as all I wanted. As a couple
of questions around that one is do you know who
who did it rucked you?
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Was?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It? Was it a rut?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It was I was standing, I tackled them, put them
on the floor and basically kicked me in the leagues.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Do you know, so you know who it was?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Daniel did not take one?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay because it was there was a discussion that was
Eric seanp okay, Eric okay?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And was it a sprugue? Yeah? What were the spring
that one? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So what position did he play?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Who the guy hooker? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
See that was because front row is long as sprugs.
Like if that was a winger, that might not have
done as much damage.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah. Well you know we were wearing twenty three middle
sprigs in those days. They didn't know wed bloody plastic.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, blades, plastic blades that cut your.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Two plastic players. Yeah, I agree with it.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah. Did they used to do did they used to
do spread checks on you? Because I remember all growing up. Yeah,
they used to do spread chicks pre game. You get
you'll get on your knees and the reff would walk
along behind you and don't don't.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
He'd come in and you'd have to stand and show
you your boots as they walked around, and he'd rub
his hand over see if they're see if they're actually sharp? Yeah,
sometimes you had to file them down because they do
get sharp when you're walking on concrete. Yeah, when you
cross the fields. That's why they started putting greens and
on the concrete areas so you wouldn't actually skid off them.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Did they Yeah? Did they check the French changing rooms
that day?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Were they home refs? Did they have home refs in?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah? No, no, no international refs, international reofs.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh yeah back then, because surely you could have another
pair of boots sitting there though.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, you always had another pair of boots carried too,
just in case you've forgot one.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Yeah, a couple of spear sprogues. What are you is
the biggest difference between rugby now and then? I know
rugby is changing quite a lot at the moment, but
if you're watching Super Rugby this year, what do you
is the biggest sort of difference.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, some of the new rules that they've just brought
out are really different, you know, like you know, the
contesting in the air. I think they're going to be
going like like not rugby League. So if you go
up for the ball you have to have your hands
up in the air. Yeah. And the thing is that's
(09:58):
one of the things that outside the probably the All Blacks,
which they don't do a great job of it. But
the only aerial ball carry you know that it's good.
There's the young Polonesian will But are you call Clark? Yeah, Caleb, Yeah,
he's the only one who takes the ball above his
head all the time. Oh yeah, yeah. Like AFL, Well theoretically,
(10:21):
why don't have an AFL coach coming in and teaching
all the backs how to do it. Yeah, that's a
great point.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I feel like we used to be really good at it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Well we did, but we were you know, you knew
you were't getting knocked by the runners running through. Yeah,
you only have to club them and then you get
end upside down.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So now in the NRL you have to because they
can check the slow mo replays. They'll have a look
at where the players, looking where their hands are. They
have to be making a genuine attempt because what was
happening is guys have just come through like a cannon ball.
Pretend that they were making an attempt on the ball,
but they weren't. Do you think that'll clean up? Because
it's I think fans in particular are a bit anti
all the kicking. They want to say a bit more
(10:57):
running rugby. Do you think that'll clean that up a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, well, by going to a free kick off scrums
is better than going to a penalty. So they can
actually play now straight off the halfway with half back
puts the ball on, he can just skip the ball,
you know, he goes free kick, you can take it
from the middle of the scrum rather than run to
the back and go. So basically you have to be
(11:19):
really weary of defensively of your scrum dynamics because if
you get pushed like that and enjoy you open side
flanker is probably the right side flanker is out of
kilter with defense.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah yeah, And then you said that they'll basically run
the move. They were going to run anyway, but it's
just the half back taps it instead of having to
do the whole scrump.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
But the thing is, if you look at the game
of today, you very really see moves off the back
of the scrum because I don't know what it is,
but the backs think they've got a bloody monitor, you know,
bloody they want the ball. Every time the number ten
ars for the ball. Well, I said the fox that
you're not getting it. Something we just play down the
(12:00):
blind sides go down the blind just the eight nine
or eight nine six return ball inside things like that,
or hit the wing or the fullback coming in, those
sort of things and short sight and at speed. And
we used to catch every team out because they didn't
know what we're doing. We have so many moves off
the back of the scrum. We'd manipulate the scrum would
(12:21):
go up on their line and we just we're go
ahead and post it on the right hand side, tight handside,
just post swing off him, and we play moves off
the back of the scrum, three or four moves, all different,
but you know, they didn't know which one we're using,
whether we're going to be driving off it, or whether
we're going to be hitting the twelve with the ball.
You know, because number eight I was playing to the
(12:41):
twelves and I'd go around and protect them. The six
had come round and he'd crossed out over the ten.
Little things like that. Now we turn them like that,
they're out of position and then Lucy usually drops his
bind and it's a penalty anyway.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, the other thing is when you watch when you
watch game from you know, up until probably about even
nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine, you see how quick.
The scrum sit man, Like I watched that eighty seven
final recently, and like the the reff would just put
a mark down real quick. The front rows are all better.
(13:17):
That just basically sorted it out, you know. The front
rows kind of sorted things out, and the ball was
on and that was it was gone, like real quick.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nowadays, oh my god, well you you hardly have any
scrums it down even.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Eight yeah, yeah, but they reset them about four times each.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And everyone's trying to get so low. You know, obviously
you want to get as low as you can that
you are, the more powerful you are. Yeah, but now
you're sitting so low.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So back in the day, they actually folded it and
so they were standing taller. Yeah, and you you know
that the head didn't come for a few years. Then
they started lowering themselves and it was the hitting yeah yeah,
And so we had to change that dynamic. And we
you know, we most of our scrums anyway, but when
the props were doing it, because they were higher, was
(14:06):
easier to control the ball hit the back because these
clowns had played locks to kick the balls on the.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
R I reckon still though, and I'm sure you'll have
a thought on this. But that old style of rugby
when you watch it now, it was a battle like
out There was basically a battle and the good games
were kind of just controlled by the players themselves and
they sought things out themselves. But the pace that it
(14:34):
was played, and the other part of the commitment to
the breakdown was you had to commit players because you
needed to go forward because if the ball did get
tied up at all, then the team going forward got
the ball which actually dragged him forwards, which created more space.
You know out why and I think when they use it,
(14:56):
use it or lose it. Rule came along that changed
every because all of a sudden, teams wanted to tie
the ball up. Before that, you didn't want to tie
the ball up. You wanted to go forward, basically is
what you're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Well. After our dominance through the eighties late eighties, they
changed the dynamics of the rolling mall. They got rid
of it for a while.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I love the rolling bloody more.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
But rolling more the crowd goes on. People don't like it, Yeah,
a lot of people don't like it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But nowadays you go along to a game, if the
all backs have got a rolling mall going it is.
The crowd never sounds louder. The crowd comes in behind
it and it's like, you know, people love to see that.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
But you know, every team around the world changed, and
they changed from you know when they got the rolling
moll back then, they developed their rolling more better than
what it was back in our day. You know, some
of them just didn't put enough effort into it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Nowadays you've got hookahs just about leading the Super Rugby
and tri scored because of all the rolling malls off
the back of the lineouts.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Did you see that?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Was it Italy and the sixth Nations the other day
and they did this thing where they didn't commit any
players to the breakdown, which meant there's no offline off sideline.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yes, well nine feet.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
But they were because there was no one in the breakdown.
They were just standing basically what looked like in an
off side position and interfering with the other players in
the round.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
It wasn't calling it, well, it's if they've you've got
to have one and two of the opposition to call
it a rock year on the ground. But it could
be a mole that just collapses and it's only one
person and he is a teckler. But even if you
don't have a teckler, sometimes the techler doesn't go. He tackles,
he's up really quickly. Yeah, and he just sets the
line because it's not a tackle anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I'll be noticing more and more least less.
Like I said, they all best doing that a little
bit too, is that they'll go, they'll techle with guy
and then they'll all getting back.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, straight away.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It was weird you mentioned before, and one of the
questions that came through on Facebook was why has the
eight nine moved down the blind side not being utilized
more as we see more and more explosive and skilled
number eights.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Because well, it's part and parcel of probably the modern game.
They want to play with the ball and so so
that we play with the ball. So you know, Foxy
always said to me, he says, one of the things
about doing moves off the back of the scrum, we
always were on the front foot. We were never going
(17:23):
sideways or backwards. And I demanded it from the locks
and the props that we actually do the moves as
fast as possible, cleanly, bring it through the scrum, and
then we just affected moves all the time, and Foxy
just says, let me, I love it because you guys
get on the front foot. You might go two or
three phases and we just bashed the shit out of
(17:43):
them and then just give it to Foxy and then
go score tries. By the time, So by the time
you go down the big blind side, especially the right
hand side, the right hand side, you bring your teen
over to defend, you bring your fifteen over to help
the wing, and your nine go back there and then
all of a sudden you've got less backs to play into.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Exactly, you know, So you're sucking them in.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
You're sucking them over to one side of the field,
and they have to get there because if we break
them once, then twice and three times, you know, you
can't stay out there for really, because we're going to
score down the gym.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, cheer any Wells and Mania Stuart find them on
Instagram at Hidarki Breakfast. Kerri and Manaia joined the complate
the Hidarki Breakfast discussion group on Facebook for more.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I look at all those players that you play, I mean,
Grant Fox like I Actually it was it was kind
of the micro skills as well that a lot of
people probably don't understand has a passing game.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Has scored a try in his life?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, no, but that has passing always there. And Dan
Carter was like that too. You just look at what
Dan Carter passes the ball. You're never up here, you know.
It just gives you that extra tiny little bit of
time when you're playing inside.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I suppose you're going to look at it and say,
do you want is it? How? How long is the pass?
You see? So if the passes in the air for
another second, that means, you know, so it means he's
tenis standing away too far away. He had get it
going a little bit closer. He cut down the time
and he can play another part. And missed the center,
(19:15):
missed the inside seat and go to the outside his seat.
It very quickly. So little things like that. And Foxy
did enjoy the halves of that era, which was David
Kirk and Brucey Dean's because BRUCEI used to actually do
the spiral, but he set the ball up by that hand.
It's easier to catch. Yeah, So you know, just little
(19:38):
things like that, and Brucey Dean's and the guys of
that era were better kickers. From the base of the
scrum much better. Brucey Dean's he had he had all
the kicks over the top, so he had the real
high kick. We'd punt the point at the ball, and
then the other one, which was you'd light the ball
like that and you'd kick this end here. Then it
would just go like that, go over the scrum, but
(20:00):
ounce bounce, bounce, bounce. And he had the grubber kick
that when he got the pass from me, he'd actually
hit the ball and then it'll go out there behind
the wing, then go out We force them into a line.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's funny when you're saying all these things, I'm picturing
it sort of thing is.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So easy because these guys who were really good at
their own skills, and so it's not me to tell
them how to kick a ball. But at the end
of the day, they're kicking and it's all like terrible.
You think, so at the moment, even the tens, the
three tens we've got there, at the moment, you know,
their kicking skills are not there. Great. They just don't
I don't think they They practice pace kicking all the time,
(20:37):
and yet they're only up to probably eighty eighty something percent. Yeah,
eighty three percent, you know for most of our kickers.
But even Barrett, you know he's been there a long time.
He swings between fifty five percent and seventy eight percent something.
Rather there, he swings a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
All of a sudden we changed to this kind of
running first five thing for a while there. I mean
the South Africans they would always make sure that they
had an amazing kicking first five.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah. Look, very really missed a kicker. Yeah, you know
he was close to close to you know, ninety five
percent kicker. Fano'bodica, who didn't get a lot of football
time as his test mats because of Foxy. When he
went to England went to Wigan, he said, how am
I going to make money if I'm not in the
(21:24):
starting lineup? So you get a contract, but the wind
bonuses were pretty pretty big and if you're not on
the team, you didn't get it, you know. So he
for him, he actually decided to bug it. He went
down to the field every day and just kicked and
kicked and kicked, and his wife just take the wall
the balls back, kicked it. He was kicking that team
(21:45):
to wins. From Justice Boot winning by a two point
penalty and he was just winning the winning by one
point two points win, you know, because it was just
so close back in these days in the rug Belieue,
because you had Wigan who was the top team, and
St Helen's was right next door. They're not far away,
(22:06):
but Leeds was right next door, sorry to Bradford, and
Wigan was on the other side. But man, they kicking,
they were very good kickers. So during that last year,
I suppose no one knew this. But in eighty nine,
after that that tour we got back from overseas, I
(22:27):
think it was about seven all blacks defected to rugby League.
Daryl Halligan, Sean, John Rando, Bodka, Yeah, Craigness, Matthew Richie,
Matthew Ridge, a couple more. But they're all outside backs.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And so so we had a big hole here for
a while, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Johnny t Johnny John Shuster, No he didn't, John Shuste
went later.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
He went later.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, he was a good.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Player, Johnny Schuster, Johnny team they went, you know, and
so we lost a lot of players. Yeah, and then
then come building up for worl C Cup ninety one.
I wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No, I remember the sites.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But at the end of the day, you know, they
picked the team and they were they were terrible.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Did you get a call from anyone to say that
because you were the All Black captain in nineteen ninety
did you do a call from anybody in that ninety
one situation saying you're not going to be the captain anymore?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What they just you just found out when they named
the team.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Well, Grizz and I talked about it, and I said, well,
where's you o the coach? What can I do? Nothing?
Good luck to you? Really? So what Gris disappeared?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
But did you read it in the paper or hear
it on the radio?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
How we talked about it right right? Yeah, we talked
about it. And so at the end of the day,
it's the politics was huge between Auckland and Canterbury with
the ends that are you because Grizz couldn't get his
own team, like his own coaching stuff. He said, no,
you're going to have the person we give you, and
that was John Hart. They co coached that that World
Cup in ninety It wasn't And the thing is Gris
(24:02):
was doing his thing and Hardy was doing his thing,
and they just never jelled well toge.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But wasn't Grizz looking after the forwards and John Hart
was looking after.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The bad That's right, But there was no you know,
the head coach. You know, Hardy's got his style of
coaching and Grizz has got his. Chris is not a dummy.
Everyone thought he was a dummy and a drunk and
things like that, but he was a very smart rugby coach.
What and you got to look at how Cannarby played
over those years and if you had any trouble with
players you again, Bloody sorted out himself.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean the All Blacks record under
him was great. Yeah, it was until the ninety one
World Cup. Was that weird to watch that and know
that you were part of that setup and then all
of a sudden you weren't.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Well, I went to the opening dinner and because I
was over there, I was living over there anyway. So
opening dinner and the closing dinner, and they come in
the closing dinner and the All Blacks were just like trash,
absolutely passed, you know, full of full of full of
bulls and they came over. Their ties are Undonne and
(25:08):
some of them didn't have their ties on. The shirts
had never been ironed straight out of a bag?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Is this the opening dinner closing?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And basically they were they were They were very poor.
It was very very poor. He had a completely divided
teams Hardy all the Auckland is against the rest. Yeah,
so it's quite a divided too, and you know, it
was sad, but this is the politics of the game,
(25:37):
you know. And and so grizz never took Gris got
Hearty because he's you know, the Aukland coach and won well,
you know over the period of time, especially in the
mid nineties, No, not mid nineties, mid eighties, so that's
when Auckland took over.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Really, do you see any similarities with the because obviously
there's been the whole coaching debacle this year with the
all back. Do you think there are any similarities there?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, well, well, let Dave Rennie have his own choice
of player coach, the ones he feels good with, because
he wouldn't work with them if they weren't any good.
And so then as he's come through the system really
really well, and you know, he got he got shafted
by Australia by Eddie Jones over there, that's for sure,
(26:24):
and I reckon they would have actually got through the
pool play easy if he would have stayed on. He's
a good coach. He's better than what Dave Rennie is
a very smart coach. And don't underestimate him. You know,
he's you know, he'll drop you just like that if
you don't front up.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But how much and you know this from playing under
numerous coaches, how much of it as coaches when it
comes to the All Blacks, particularly because look, Steve Hanson
was clearly a great coach, and people who played underhim
liked him. And you know, Graham Henry great coach, but
also Steve Henson. I mean, he had some great players
and he had a team there that were he inherited
(27:00):
a great team. You do, but so did oh Raser,
Ian Foster.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I Ian Foster and heard a great team too. But
I said to myself, this is what I expect of
these people is because he was there for eight years
and then he done his tenure, which was twelve, but
he never added to the dynamics of the team. I
wanted to see at least ten to twelve percent, but
(27:31):
left lift and everything. Yeah, you know, the dynamics of
new moves, but there's no moves in the backline, no
moves in the scrum. You just throw the ball around.
That's all you're doing. You're expecting, you know, to live
off the mistakes of other people. The other team was
not always going to happen. You know. South Africa don't
give the board up easily, do They don't make a
(27:51):
lot of mistakes. Game that we lost badly, you know,
by fifty points. You know, they never change their dynamics
of their game halftime. So the reckord did and took
us one up front and smashed the shit out of us. Yeah, yeah, basically,
and then they started running it late in the last
fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Or was that that one? Was that two years ago
or something? Was it in New Zealand? That was the
one in New Zealand and they played well that day.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
They walloped us. Yeah, you know, but the thing is,
we can't come back from it because we haven't trained it.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Do you think that's what there is?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Sure? With Razor was as well.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
They thought he was going to add that ten twelve
percent on top and it didn't seem that he had
in those two years.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Or was he actually coaching. What I've read, he wasn't
coaching the other players were the other coach was doing
all coaching. He might have just you know, listening to
what he was saying. Yeah, you know, I just doing
the culture, looking after the culture. Yeah, well, you know,
how is the culture team dynamics. It should be run
by the team dynamics theoretically is run by the team. Yeah,
(28:52):
either you're your senior players and basically they just report.
Senior players report to the coach. You know.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Do you like this current coaching set up? They just
announced who they have the gut Well.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I know them personally, but they're all, you know, younger guys,
which is cool, you know. And and Dave Rennie would see,
he's days but younger than me. He's or six six
years younger than me. But he's been around a long time,
you know. And that's he's played a lot of rugby himself,
and as we all know, and but but he's coached
(29:26):
around the world too. He's got a bit of offshore stuff.
And Jamie Joseph, well I picked Jamie and Brownie to
be with them, you know, before Robinson actually really really
that was my pick. Yeah, talking all the who's your
pick back, And I said, they've ready to be the
leader forward coach, coach.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, well the other thing. The other thing back is
that they've got they have got arguably the most difficult
assignment that any All Black teams maybe ever had, with
this team going and touring South Africa, because you're up
against not only not only touring South Africa, which I
know or you didn't do in your career. Did you
(30:08):
never got to tour because they were out with Apardeit
during your tenure the Cavaliers in eighty five, but which
would have been tough. But they're not only up against
South African side in South Africa, but they also are
up against a very very good, well organized South African
side in South Africa. How stuff do you think that
(30:30):
assignment's going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, well, they're playing it supersides. Outside of that, all
the games that were against supersides except for the four Tests, right,
so they're not used to playing four two games a week. No, no,
you know, And so thing is all we did was
play two games a week and so there's a little
bit more less time for training, so you get a
(30:54):
little bit of rest. So the a team in my
times are the top team. Well, we would actually you
play the game on a Saturday and probably about six
of us wouldn't make the team for the Tuesday game.
Would give it to all the guys on the beach,
the only heads. You know, we had what five, six,
six players on the beach in those days. Now they've
(31:15):
got eight. Yeah you know, so yeah, So that that's
what happened. All the all the the dirty dirties.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Who were the dirt trackers, dirt trackers.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
They actually played the midweek games and that's how they
played their way into the team is by performing in
those games. So we never lost any We never lost
any games during my room.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
But I think it's going to be tough, I reckon,
I think I think it's going to be tough.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, see other African tour is bloody easy.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
No, and not only that, you're coming against a very
organized South African team who know their game well but
but and know how to beat us and smell they
know where our weaknesses are. And also you've got a
coaching set up who Look, you can't judge Dave rennie
on on the performance of what happens in South Africa.
I mean he said no time, how many games does
he get before he even gets over there for four
tests to prepare, So you know that's all that's going
(32:10):
to be tough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
But the midweekers are actually another challenge as well because
they'll stack their teams. Yeah true.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, at least they have got South African referees.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I hope not. But at the end of the day,
you know, it's test matches, a test match, but playing
a Test match in South Areca is a lot harder
than them, and probably it's it's playing in Auckland like that.
With that record they've got, they just won't lose the
You're blacks. Yeah, they do everything to safeguard their record,
(32:40):
so at least they're coming up with something a record
of Eden Park. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So I'm looking forward to the games though, because I
do like, I love an all blacks South Africa game,
especially the ones that are over in Africa. Something about them.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You know, fifty players overseas well, more than that, a
lot more of Brogie players, but they've got about fifty
South African players overseas and they bring them back for
trainings in South Africa and so that's basically what they're doing,
is South Africa allowing the rest of the world to
actually pay their contracts where they make all their money,
(33:15):
and they bring them back and keep them involved in
this in the top fifty players, and they picked their
team out of the top fifty players.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
All right, we don't come to do that, do we,
because our guys can't aren't eligible.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, well, that's that's the weakness in ours that we
don't do it.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Do you think we would in the future.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, women, black fans are doing it. Black fans have
got a couple of players that they're allowing to play
for New Zealand have been playing to England. Yeah, overseas.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But it's one of those things that you know, we
might have to look at it, you know, like Dave
Renny if he wants to have the big lock back
from Kobe, well I'd bring him back. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Well the All Backs coach, what do you care? You know,
you want the best players on the planet that's eligible
to play for your country.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Game Muwang might have been picked by you know, by
the last coach. But the thing is, you know, I
think he's already got a contract for that.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yeah he's coming back, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So he's coming back. But even even listening to Dave
on some of the talk things. Yeah, see podcasts and
things like that, that he's basically Muwang is actually playing
really really good football up there. But at the end
of the day, playing in Japan and playing.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
In bloody different whole different things, different things. Yeah, hey,
lovely to chat to you back. Always always a great pleasure.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
And we're going to be talking about this or I
felt like we talked about it at the beginning a
little bit at a little bit of stuff there, but
I mean the main message, the main messages are, you know,
make sure you check yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
It's it's a good idea and it's a simple check
that you can do.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Simple check. Learn how to do it online, go on
line to the website and it talks you through it
and then basically you go into the draw to win
that jack ute. Yeah, it's nice, big cards. It's like
those what was the bm W whatever that be? If
that new one it's a b if something. I haven't
(35:21):
seen it.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
I haven't seen it, but I can always do with
the free ute, be honest.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's worth about bloody fifty thousand,
you know. So, yeah, some young man's going to walk
away with a ute and and I think that basically, hopefully,
you know, we can inspire our young people to actually
go and get checked. And one of the weaknesses in
the system that I saw years ago was that men
(35:48):
do not talk to their sons about health and well being.
Talk about rugby and rugby injuries, but they don't talk
about the health ones that we actually have to endear
ourselves to, specially going to for prostate cancer. You can't
see it, gesticulate cancer, you can feel it. And the
woman are way ahead of us in that department where
(36:09):
they checked. They've been checking their breast for the last
twenty years. Yeah, you know, and and their stats are dropping.
Ours are not. Ours are going up and up and
up for our health and well being, especially for prostate cancer.
We were a lot of over three hundred and three
hundred and forty people dip them for that and early detection,
(36:30):
early deteil.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You can sort it out. You can sort it out.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Well. I had my cancer, what was it, nineteen nineteen
or twenty two thousand and seven. I went through through
cancer and basically I've been free ever since. I test
myself some earlier, so ten years ago, I was testing
myself twice a year with bloods and nothing's come up yet.
(36:55):
And so the thing is, but mine will come back,
they said, as you age, what could come back quite easily.
But it'll come back either hard and fast or really
slow and small and it grows slowly.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah, but either way you'll know early.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I'll get my blood steak and every year and yeah,
I've got my date. That's when I go there. Heah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
You just want more people to have to have a
scare to then start the prevention. You want them just
to prevent it without the scare.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, but the scare could actually be the last last
one they do. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get checked regularly,
you know, every year, and get checked, I'll tell you what,
it's a lifesaver. Yeah, you know. And it's worth while.
You're paid for. You pay it for your bloody car,
that bloody thirty bucks to get the thirty five dollars
(37:41):
to get the warrant for your car. You pay that,
but you won't pay it for your life. I just
I just think it's a it's a no brainer. And
for our young kids out there, lead the way, lead
the way, because you're the future of New Zealand. On
the rugby, fielding off the rugby, and then the dynamics
(38:01):
of what they do in their life, you know, because
the health affects everybody.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Sir wain Shelford, thank you so much for coming and
it's always a great pleasure. Good on you.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Thank you guys, nice to talk.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Thank you appreciate it's the jac Youth by the way, fellos,
I've looked it up.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
J A. C. Yeah, big, it's a big wagon.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Jerry and manyah. We hatched the radio show from six
tho ten weekdays, The Hadarky Breakfast
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