October 14, 2025 • 19 mins
Paul Dehner Jr with all the latest news on the Bengals.
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Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Enter this nation on our website.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Bank that's bank.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Enter it now you've found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, here we go. What's up. Good afternoon, I'm
all this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
We're broadcasting from Oakley Greens, which we have. One of
the things we love about broadcasting from Oakley Greens is
we get a chance to know the staff, we get
a chance to know the people here, we get a
chance to learn about them.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And boy, that just happened during the break.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
I'm not sure how much any of that is for air,
but you know you could take part in that if
you come on out to Oakley Greens. Typically on Tuesday,
our friend Paul Danner Junior from the Athletic and the
Growlar podcast is here with us at Oakley Greens. But
the Bengals play on Thursday, and so today is like
the big heavy work day.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
The players are available, the locker room is open.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Paul's got a right, he's got a podcast, and so
he doesn't have time to get here and hang out
with me. But because he's the best, still kind enough
to give us a few minutes on the phone.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hi, Paul, Hello, MO, how are you? I?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I gotta say that was very intriguing. I really wish
I was there to know what you are referencing. You
just learned about the fine people at Oakley Greens before
I came on.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
When you're here next week, I'll give you a synopsis.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Okay, good, good. I just I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
So is anything anything big or newsworthy happening down there
we need to know about?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well, maybe the absolute crossroads of the season is happening
in two days.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
If you're interested in that.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
That's a fairly important, fairly important game here. You don't
really expect to be saying those types of things this early,
but we're kind of accustomed to that around here lately,
aren't we are? We are late early around here pretty
consistently now, third year in a row, we're dealing with this.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But it does feel.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Like you either show you've got some fight and you
can find some semblance of offense and defense and can
deliver a blow to the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Pittsburgh Steelers, or the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Are about to run away and hide to the AFC
North and you're not going to have any stay in it.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, this feels like game on versus game over.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Three and four, it's game on, and you get the
mini buy chance to breathe. The Jets are coming here,
obviously a winnable game, and we start to talk about
the AFC, maybe the AFC North Pittsburgh doesn't run away
and hide two and five, and it's who are they
trading and what can they get for Trey Hendrickson and
how bad might this get? Like three and four versus
(02:34):
two and five, The difference is more than one game.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I mean, it's already on the verge of maybe being
too much when you just consider.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
The uphill path that this team has right now.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, you just they're not very good defensively.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Their offense is this.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Like construction project around Joe Flacco getting up to speed
here and you see some signs of life in it,
but this is you know, Joe Burrow is not work
walking through that door anytime soon. And so the idea
that they're just gonna start ripping off a long streak
of wins and blow past the Pittsburgh Steelers is just
(03:13):
not reality.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They're gonna have to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
They're gonna have to hang around and hope that that
team starts to struggle a bit and gain some momentum
with Laco at quarterback, and I just it felt like,
I don't know how you felt about it, Mo, but
to me, everything about Sunday felt like half real game,
half preseason game.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It was it felt like it was a bridge to
this Thursday.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Like they needed Joe Flacco in there and playing that
game so that he could go beat Pittsburgh on Thursday.
And that was you know, and even you can talk
and we'll talk plenty about the Barrett Carter decision, it's
go go get him in there and see what he's
got and maybe he can help you a part of
the answer, and he could have a game under his
(03:59):
belt when he goes to play Pittsburgh at.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Home on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It's this recognition that this is where the path had
to be. It has to be through winning this game.
And it felt like everything about that was building towards
Thursday night in a game that they get frankly have
to hack.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
The only way I'll part with what you just said
is I don't think it was a half preseason game.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
That was a full preseason game.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I was I'm not gonna say uninterested in the result,
I thought they had no chance of winning. To me,
it was can they do something offensively as that game
begins to evolve that makes me feel like, Okay, some
seeds have been planted for them to have future success.
That maybe ignores the fact that defensively they have all
sorts of issues. It maybe ignores some of the changes
(04:46):
they're making on the fly in regards to who plays.
But I saw what I wanted to see. I expected
it to be not great in the first half. I
wanted it to be better in the second half. And
you pointed out like as the second half went on,
I wasn't thinking about the play clock. I wasn't thinking
about unnecessarily burning timeouts, delay of game penalties. I saw
(05:09):
competent offensive line play. I don't know how much of
that is sustainable, but I saw an offense that worked
and work again. This is not where we should be starting,
but this is this is where we are. It's week six, Okay,
it's the Browning thing didn't work. We're trying Flacco show
me something that makes me feel like this can work,
And over those final thirty minutes, I got what I
(05:29):
wanted to see at that point, didn't care about the result.
I will on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Absolutely. I think it looked functional.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
It looked like one that could operate on time and
under control, and looked like it had a plan. And
you know, I just went something as simple in the
story I have up today, I'm just let's just look
at how this team operated from a you know, successful
play standpoint on throws to come out in two point
(06:00):
five seconds or less. And it's unbelievable. You know, Joe
Flacco comes in and it's up around sixty percent. Weeks
one and two, it was up around sixty percent. The
three middle games with Jake Browning was all the way
down in the thirties and forties was bad plays. It's
not seeing things fasting, and it's not finding those easy, successful,
efficient plays.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That kept them ahead of the six more often.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And if there's one thing that Joe did, he just
came in and when he knew what he was seeing
and quickly got the ball to somebody that could help
him make a profit. And it helped the whole offense
work better. And it's just it made it apparent that
so much of what was going wrong was a matter
of just a quarterback that didn't know what he.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Was seeing and wasn't finding the easy.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yards, the layups that we've spent the last couple of
weeks talk about that they're missing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think when you can do that, as they did,
as Joe.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Figured out what he was seeing, and I know Pitcher
with us this week, and Zach Taylors talked about as well,
even Flaco that a couple of those in the first
half he wasn't seeing it as quick first game with
these guys and recognizes that the checkdowns that he was
hitting later, if he just would have hit those in
those first couple of drives, those drives could have looked
more like the last ones. And I don't think it's
going to be that simple throughout the course of the season.
(07:13):
Like teams are going to see that, and he is
who he is, but like that level of.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Functionality with these level of weapons around.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Him, can beating off to score a decent amount of
points and keep you competitive.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
The problem is they've now.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Lost four in a rows and they've got to do
that on a fly and get out there and beat
Pittsburgh because they put their backs against the wall a
little bit trying to find that.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I read what you wrote after Friday about how this
came together, the decision to bring in Joe Flacco, the
process of getting him up to speed with the offense,
him joining the team, learning who his teammates are, and
I coupled that with listening to him on Friday. Joe Flacco,
(07:57):
I've never had strong feelings about the guy. Good career,
long career, seems like an okay guy, spent much of
his career playing for a team I root against. Never
felt like he was one of the absolute best. Certainly
respect what the dude has accomplished. I've gone from feeling
that way, and this has little to do with how
he played on Sunday listening to him and reading what
(08:18):
you wrote about getting him up to speed.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I'm a Joe Flacco fan.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, I mean, he has this level of humility and
professionalism that mixes well together. You know. It just feels
like he understands who he is, where he's at in
his career. He's very honest with himself. I mean, he's
just a grown adult, you know what I mean, Like,
man has five kids, mo like it changes you. And
but he just he has a really, very real sense
(08:45):
of appreciating the moments that he's in is what strikes me.
Appreciating the fact that, yeah, I mean I am, I'm
driving down in the middle of the night, and I would.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Have driven myself.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
May didn't have to send me these cars like I'm
driving down because I appreciate the fause I'm about to
have another chance, and I appreciate the adversity that I
went through in Cleveland, and just and there's an understanding
of what the NFL is with him. I just think
that you don't get often and that's fine, you just
don't out of a lot of younger players when they're
(09:17):
out here and they view everything differently. But you can
just sense, I mean that that wisdom that he has
about appreciating these moments, gratitude for the game, and understanding
of how it all works. I just think he certainly
comes across as the true true professional.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I just I watched that whole thing on Friday, and
I thought, this guy understands how absurd this is and
handled it with humor, handled it with professionalism like that,
and just it helped with how he played in the
second half on Sunday, I just thought, like, that's a
dude worth rooting for, and like, now I want this
(09:55):
to work.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I want this to work because I'm a Bengals fan.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I want this to work because I think it'd be
a cool story, and I think Joe Flacco at the
center that would be neat. I was impressed by how
he handled that. It felt to me like he he
put himself in a position where he was gonna be
very prepared, and his experience certainly allowed him to do that.
But I just I don't know, man, I've walked away from.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
The the early the early early.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Returns of the Joe Flacco experience, appreciating him more than
I ever did.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Because but before this week, I didn't care.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, you know, I had Zach Jackson, who has covered
the Browns forever, and he's notably sarcastic and critical of
the Browns at pretty much every turn whenever I talked
to him, so I always, really, I always really enjoy
having catching up with Zach whenever it's it's whether it's
on my podcast or whatever. But like I had him
(10:49):
on last week, We did one after the trade, and
I like softballed one up for him to be like, oh,
it's take a shot at the Browns and Flacco and whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And it was the exact opposite.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He was like, you know, I'm the most cynical human
on earth, and I feel like I look at the
Bengals and Joe Flacco and think that it can work.
And I think there was an appreciation for everything that
you just verbalized there, Mo, and it's that he's he's
a true professional. He is a real understanding of how
the league works. And this gratitude that he has plays
well in certain places, and it played well in Cleveland
(11:22):
despite the fact that Cleveland is the biggest pony show
of what is going on here in the whole league
for periods of time. But I think there's an understanding
of how to handle that stuff and deal with it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And you know, I was really surprised.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
And that's somebody who has dealt with Joe Flacco now
in different parts for a couple of years, and so
that was when my antenna was first raised to it.
And I think you've seen that at pretty much every
turn thus far since Joe has gotten here.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
All Right, a couple more because I know you have
stuff to do.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I've I've beaten up this roster and it's defense, and
I've wandered out loud. Are there are five players I
want to be on the team next year. I might
be completely there yet, but DJ Turner is winning me over.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I don't know how you're not.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, the way that he is playing now is
cornerback one stuff that the Bengals have been begging to find,
begging to draft, begging to develop for I don't know
as long as we can remember in recent memory here,
since Chita Beowuzi, you know, towards Aco that one year.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that is it feels like they.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Needed that to have a guy that they can rely
on to make a play, that they can rely on
to shut down the other team's best receiver, that can
you know, we'll be sticky in because just anything that
you can count on in the secondary that isn't some
kind of a roller coaster week to week. This is
the evolution they've been begging for from Dax Hill, from
Cam Taylor Britt and now from Turner. Any just asking
(12:50):
for any of them to turn into somebody like what
he has played like over the last month.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And it's it's great to see.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It's hard not to believe even him right now with
a way that he's playing.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Why is the logan Wilson thing gone south so quickly.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It's a great question, and uh, you know, Logan's obviously
not thrilled with it. And I think that there is
a general direction that the team wants to go in
terms of being young, and they feel like if they're
gonna be good at some point this year, Barrett Carter
(13:32):
is probably going to have to be a part of
that answer. And the only way that he's going to
start to be a part of that answer is if
he gets reps, and he's not gonna get them right now.
It is a It's one of the more stunning moves
in recent years, just because I don't think Logan Wilson
was playing that bad. Okay, I don't think that of
(13:54):
all the of all the things happening out there. Defensively,
he wasn't in the top of my list of things
to worry about. And the one thing he was was
the one veteran out there amongst all of these kids
who have had roller coaster careers. As far like, there's
so many young players that are out there around him
and guys that don't know what they're doing totally, and
(14:16):
to take away the guy who has the seat on
his chest and the green dot on his helmet that
has been was just praised a week or two ago
for getting everybody lined up correctly, And as far as
I can tell, isn't one of your top three or
four or five liabilities in terms of the way he's playing.
Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, And it's
(14:37):
just really surprising to see as it felt rash, But
it feels like this is just the direction that they
want to go, that they just feel like they wanted
to see if Barrett Carter can bring them some kind
of a jolt.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But you know, we just talked to Logan in the
locker room and he.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Didn't feel like he got much of an explanation for
why the move happened. And he's doing everything he can
to help Barrett and is going to be the good teammate.
But I think there's a sense of him being as
befuddled as some of the a lot of the other
thus are.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I don't get it.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
And number one, I don't know that Barrett Carter has
played so well that he has distinguished himself that you go,
you know what, you got to get this guy in
the field more. And he's a rookie, so he's not
supposed to but I'm with you. I said to you
after the first game that that was the first time
in over a year that I had watched Logan Wilson play,
where I said during the game, like.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Hey, there's Logan Wilson.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
He maybe hasn't been that good since I just I
feel like I feel like the leash for him has
been shorter than a lot of other guys they've had,
and it's it's hard for me to wrap my brain
around why.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
To me, it just goes back to the fact that
they need somebody who knows what they're doing out there,
and that was apparent. You know, you look at the
second half of that game. I mean the touchdown against
Green Bay. You've got two rookie linebackers and nobody goes
to the A gap and Josh Jacobs runs right up
the middle for a touchdown.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's just, you know, that's.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
The type of stuff when you're really serious about trying
to win games right now, you know, those are those
are risks that you can't be that you're just not
taking in terms of having that level of an experience
with two rookie linebackers out there together. And there's other
there's just other ways to work them in. You know,
there can there can be rotational stuff. You can have
you know, bigger sub package work or or alternate drives
(16:29):
for a little while and see how it's going and
get reps in that way.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Or it's just for it to.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Immediately be Barrett Carter plays one hundred percent of the
snaps in Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
It's just it was just a much.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Riskier decision, uh than I feel like this point in
the season warrants.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I have found that sometimes in life, this thing happens
where you're doing your job just fine, everybody seems to
like you, and then they just pull the plug for
no reason, and uh, I don't understand it, and it
defies explanation sometimes. But you know, that's that's why I
search for answers eternally on the search for answers.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, I think the Bengals are eternally on the search
for answers right now too. It feels like that's a
big part of what's happening around here. And we'll see
how lost they are on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I suppose we'll.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
See Paul, I missed you here today, but we'll see
you next week.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thank you as always, I look forward to it. Talk
to everybody.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Likewise, Paul Danner Junior catch the podcast The Growler Podcast,
read him at the Athletic dot Com his piece and
he wrote it on I think he wrote it Friday,
wrote about just what they did to get Joe Flacco
up to speed is really good and again, man, like
they've lost four consecutive games. This seasons is at a
(17:44):
tipping point. We're already breaking the glass and applying the
must win label to the game on Thursday, like things
are knock wing great, the defense is not good.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They're on their.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Third quarterback in seven games, Like, this isn't good, but
Joe Flacco has never elicited strong feelings and maybe that's
his legacy, Like you know when we were doing this
thirteen years ago after they won the Super Bowl. The
whole like, is Joe Flacco elite? And IM like, I'm
gonna sit this one out because the answer is no.
But we'll argue over Joe Flacco if you want.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I've become a fan this week. I thought like he'sat there.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Friday and handled the questions about this just ridiculous situation
with humor, and it it felt like he did everything
he could to prepare himself ready to play, to get
ready to play on Sunday. It felt like the team
did respond to him on some level, certainly in.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The second half.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I don't have uber high hopes that this is gonna
be sustainable. He can't move The offensive line, while it
played decent in the second half, is not great. They
all have a great running game even if they score points.
The defense doesn't feel like they can stop anybody right now.
But you know, we said it last week. It's at
least interesting, and I think Joe Flacco, the way he
has handled this and the way he played in the
(19:04):
second half have made it even more interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It is twenty three after four o'clock. We're at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
We're gonna hear Joe Flacco and Jamar and He've been
waiting all day for this. You'll hear from Joe and
Jamar coming up in twelve minutes on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPNI
Enter this nation on our website.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Bank that's bank.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Enter it now you've found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, here we go. What's up. Good afternoon, I'm
all this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
We're broadcasting from Oakley Greens, which we have. One of
the things we love about broadcasting from Oakley Greens is
we get a chance to know the staff, we get
a chance to know the people here, we get a
chance to learn about them.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And boy, that just happened during the break.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
I'm not sure how much any of that is for air,
but you know you could take part in that if
you come on out to Oakley Greens. Typically on Tuesday,
our friend Paul Danner Junior from the Athletic and the
Growlar podcast is here with us at Oakley Greens. But
the Bengals play on Thursday, and so today is like
the big heavy work day.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
The players are available, the locker room is open.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Paul's got a right, he's got a podcast, and so
he doesn't have time to get here and hang out
with me. But because he's the best, still kind enough
to give us a few minutes on the phone.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hi, Paul, Hello, MO, how are you? I?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I gotta say that was very intriguing. I really wish
I was there to know what you are referencing. You
just learned about the fine people at Oakley Greens before
I came on.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
When you're here next week, I'll give you a synopsis.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Okay, good, good. I just I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
So is anything anything big or newsworthy happening down there
we need to know about?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well, maybe the absolute crossroads of the season is happening
in two days.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
If you're interested in that.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
That's a fairly important, fairly important game here. You don't
really expect to be saying those types of things this early,
but we're kind of accustomed to that around here lately,
aren't we are? We are late early around here pretty
consistently now, third year in a row, we're dealing with this.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But it does feel.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Like you either show you've got some fight and you
can find some semblance of offense and defense and can
deliver a blow to the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Pittsburgh Steelers, or the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Are about to run away and hide to the AFC
North and you're not going to have any stay in it.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, this feels like game on versus game over.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Three and four, it's game on, and you get the
mini buy chance to breathe. The Jets are coming here,
obviously a winnable game, and we start to talk about
the AFC, maybe the AFC North Pittsburgh doesn't run away
and hide two and five, and it's who are they
trading and what can they get for Trey Hendrickson and
how bad might this get? Like three and four versus
(02:34):
two and five, The difference is more than one game.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I mean, it's already on the verge of maybe being
too much when you just consider.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
The uphill path that this team has right now.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, you just they're not very good defensively.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Their offense is this.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Like construction project around Joe Flacco getting up to speed
here and you see some signs of life in it,
but this is you know, Joe Burrow is not work
walking through that door anytime soon. And so the idea
that they're just gonna start ripping off a long streak
of wins and blow past the Pittsburgh Steelers is just
(03:13):
not reality.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They're gonna have to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
They're gonna have to hang around and hope that that
team starts to struggle a bit and gain some momentum
with Laco at quarterback, and I just it felt like,
I don't know how you felt about it, Mo, but
to me, everything about Sunday felt like half real game,
half preseason game.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It was it felt like it was a bridge to
this Thursday.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Like they needed Joe Flacco in there and playing that
game so that he could go beat Pittsburgh on Thursday.
And that was you know, and even you can talk
and we'll talk plenty about the Barrett Carter decision, it's
go go get him in there and see what he's
got and maybe he can help you a part of
the answer, and he could have a game under his
(03:59):
belt when he goes to play Pittsburgh at.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Home on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It's this recognition that this is where the path had
to be. It has to be through winning this game.
And it felt like everything about that was building towards
Thursday night in a game that they get frankly have
to hack.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
The only way I'll part with what you just said
is I don't think it was a half preseason game.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
That was a full preseason game.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I was I'm not gonna say uninterested in the result,
I thought they had no chance of winning. To me,
it was can they do something offensively as that game
begins to evolve that makes me feel like, Okay, some
seeds have been planted for them to have future success.
That maybe ignores the fact that defensively they have all
sorts of issues. It maybe ignores some of the changes
(04:46):
they're making on the fly in regards to who plays.
But I saw what I wanted to see. I expected
it to be not great in the first half. I
wanted it to be better in the second half. And
you pointed out like as the second half went on,
I wasn't thinking about the play clock. I wasn't thinking
about unnecessarily burning timeouts, delay of game penalties. I saw
(05:09):
competent offensive line play. I don't know how much of
that is sustainable, but I saw an offense that worked
and work again. This is not where we should be starting,
but this is this is where we are. It's week six, Okay,
it's the Browning thing didn't work. We're trying Flacco show
me something that makes me feel like this can work,
And over those final thirty minutes, I got what I
(05:29):
wanted to see at that point, didn't care about the result.
I will on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Absolutely. I think it looked functional.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
It looked like one that could operate on time and
under control, and looked like it had a plan. And
you know, I just went something as simple in the
story I have up today, I'm just let's just look
at how this team operated from a you know, successful
play standpoint on throws to come out in two point
(06:00):
five seconds or less. And it's unbelievable. You know, Joe
Flacco comes in and it's up around sixty percent. Weeks
one and two, it was up around sixty percent. The
three middle games with Jake Browning was all the way
down in the thirties and forties was bad plays. It's
not seeing things fasting, and it's not finding those easy, successful,
efficient plays.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That kept them ahead of the six more often.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And if there's one thing that Joe did, he just
came in and when he knew what he was seeing
and quickly got the ball to somebody that could help
him make a profit. And it helped the whole offense
work better. And it's just it made it apparent that
so much of what was going wrong was a matter
of just a quarterback that didn't know what he.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Was seeing and wasn't finding the easy.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yards, the layups that we've spent the last couple of
weeks talk about that they're missing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think when you can do that, as they did,
as Joe.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Figured out what he was seeing, and I know Pitcher
with us this week, and Zach Taylors talked about as well,
even Flaco that a couple of those in the first
half he wasn't seeing it as quick first game with
these guys and recognizes that the checkdowns that he was
hitting later, if he just would have hit those in
those first couple of drives, those drives could have looked
more like the last ones. And I don't think it's
going to be that simple throughout the course of the season.
(07:13):
Like teams are going to see that, and he is
who he is, but like that level of.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Functionality with these level of weapons around.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Him, can beating off to score a decent amount of
points and keep you competitive.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
The problem is they've now.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Lost four in a rows and they've got to do
that on a fly and get out there and beat
Pittsburgh because they put their backs against the wall a
little bit trying to find that.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I read what you wrote after Friday about how this
came together, the decision to bring in Joe Flacco, the
process of getting him up to speed with the offense,
him joining the team, learning who his teammates are, and
I coupled that with listening to him on Friday. Joe Flacco,
(07:57):
I've never had strong feelings about the guy. Good career,
long career, seems like an okay guy, spent much of
his career playing for a team I root against. Never
felt like he was one of the absolute best. Certainly
respect what the dude has accomplished. I've gone from feeling
that way, and this has little to do with how
he played on Sunday listening to him and reading what
(08:18):
you wrote about getting him up to speed.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I'm a Joe Flacco fan.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, I mean, he has this level of humility and
professionalism that mixes well together. You know. It just feels
like he understands who he is, where he's at in
his career. He's very honest with himself. I mean, he's
just a grown adult, you know what I mean, Like,
man has five kids, mo like it changes you. And
but he just he has a really, very real sense
(08:45):
of appreciating the moments that he's in is what strikes me.
Appreciating the fact that, yeah, I mean I am, I'm
driving down in the middle of the night, and I would.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Have driven myself.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
May didn't have to send me these cars like I'm
driving down because I appreciate the fause I'm about to
have another chance, and I appreciate the adversity that I
went through in Cleveland, and just and there's an understanding
of what the NFL is with him. I just think
that you don't get often and that's fine, you just
don't out of a lot of younger players when they're
(09:17):
out here and they view everything differently. But you can
just sense, I mean that that wisdom that he has
about appreciating these moments, gratitude for the game, and understanding
of how it all works. I just think he certainly
comes across as the true true professional.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I just I watched that whole thing on Friday, and
I thought, this guy understands how absurd this is and
handled it with humor, handled it with professionalism like that,
and just it helped with how he played in the
second half on Sunday, I just thought, like, that's a
dude worth rooting for, and like, now I want this
(09:55):
to work.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I want this to work because I'm a Bengals fan.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I want this to work because I think it'd be
a cool story, and I think Joe Flacco at the
center that would be neat. I was impressed by how
he handled that. It felt to me like he he
put himself in a position where he was gonna be
very prepared, and his experience certainly allowed him to do that.
But I just I don't know, man, I've walked away from.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
The the early the early early.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Returns of the Joe Flacco experience, appreciating him more than
I ever did.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Because but before this week, I didn't care.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, you know, I had Zach Jackson, who has covered
the Browns forever, and he's notably sarcastic and critical of
the Browns at pretty much every turn whenever I talked
to him, so I always, really, I always really enjoy
having catching up with Zach whenever it's it's whether it's
on my podcast or whatever. But like I had him
(10:49):
on last week, We did one after the trade, and
I like softballed one up for him to be like, oh,
it's take a shot at the Browns and Flacco and whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And it was the exact opposite.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He was like, you know, I'm the most cynical human
on earth, and I feel like I look at the
Bengals and Joe Flacco and think that it can work.
And I think there was an appreciation for everything that
you just verbalized there, Mo, and it's that he's he's
a true professional. He is a real understanding of how
the league works. And this gratitude that he has plays
well in certain places, and it played well in Cleveland
(11:22):
despite the fact that Cleveland is the biggest pony show
of what is going on here in the whole league
for periods of time. But I think there's an understanding
of how to handle that stuff and deal with it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And you know, I was really surprised.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
And that's somebody who has dealt with Joe Flacco now
in different parts for a couple of years, and so
that was when my antenna was first raised to it.
And I think you've seen that at pretty much every
turn thus far since Joe has gotten here.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
All Right, a couple more because I know you have
stuff to do.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I've I've beaten up this roster and it's defense, and
I've wandered out loud. Are there are five players I
want to be on the team next year. I might
be completely there yet, but DJ Turner is winning me over.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I don't know how you're not.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, the way that he is playing now is
cornerback one stuff that the Bengals have been begging to find,
begging to draft, begging to develop for I don't know
as long as we can remember in recent memory here,
since Chita Beowuzi, you know, towards Aco that one year.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that is it feels like they.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Needed that to have a guy that they can rely
on to make a play, that they can rely on
to shut down the other team's best receiver, that can
you know, we'll be sticky in because just anything that
you can count on in the secondary that isn't some
kind of a roller coaster week to week. This is
the evolution they've been begging for from Dax Hill, from
Cam Taylor Britt and now from Turner. Any just asking
(12:50):
for any of them to turn into somebody like what
he has played like over the last month.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And it's it's great to see.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It's hard not to believe even him right now with
a way that he's playing.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Why is the logan Wilson thing gone south so quickly.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It's a great question, and uh, you know, Logan's obviously
not thrilled with it. And I think that there is
a general direction that the team wants to go in
terms of being young, and they feel like if they're
gonna be good at some point this year, Barrett Carter
(13:32):
is probably going to have to be a part of
that answer. And the only way that he's going to
start to be a part of that answer is if
he gets reps, and he's not gonna get them right now.
It is a It's one of the more stunning moves
in recent years, just because I don't think Logan Wilson
was playing that bad. Okay, I don't think that of
(13:54):
all the of all the things happening out there. Defensively,
he wasn't in the top of my list of things
to worry about. And the one thing he was was
the one veteran out there amongst all of these kids
who have had roller coaster careers. As far like, there's
so many young players that are out there around him
and guys that don't know what they're doing totally, and
(14:16):
to take away the guy who has the seat on
his chest and the green dot on his helmet that
has been was just praised a week or two ago
for getting everybody lined up correctly, And as far as
I can tell, isn't one of your top three or
four or five liabilities in terms of the way he's playing.
Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, And it's
(14:37):
just really surprising to see as it felt rash, But
it feels like this is just the direction that they
want to go, that they just feel like they wanted
to see if Barrett Carter can bring them some kind
of a jolt.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But you know, we just talked to Logan in the
locker room and he.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Didn't feel like he got much of an explanation for
why the move happened. And he's doing everything he can
to help Barrett and is going to be the good teammate.
But I think there's a sense of him being as
befuddled as some of the a lot of the other
thus are.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I don't get it.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
And number one, I don't know that Barrett Carter has
played so well that he has distinguished himself that you go,
you know what, you got to get this guy in
the field more. And he's a rookie, so he's not
supposed to but I'm with you. I said to you
after the first game that that was the first time
in over a year that I had watched Logan Wilson play,
where I said during the game, like.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Hey, there's Logan Wilson.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
He maybe hasn't been that good since I just I
feel like I feel like the leash for him has
been shorter than a lot of other guys they've had,
and it's it's hard for me to wrap my brain
around why.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
To me, it just goes back to the fact that
they need somebody who knows what they're doing out there,
and that was apparent. You know, you look at the
second half of that game. I mean the touchdown against
Green Bay. You've got two rookie linebackers and nobody goes
to the A gap and Josh Jacobs runs right up
the middle for a touchdown.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's just, you know, that's.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
The type of stuff when you're really serious about trying
to win games right now, you know, those are those
are risks that you can't be that you're just not
taking in terms of having that level of an experience
with two rookie linebackers out there together. And there's other
there's just other ways to work them in. You know,
there can there can be rotational stuff. You can have
you know, bigger sub package work or or alternate drives
(16:29):
for a little while and see how it's going and
get reps in that way.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Or it's just for it to.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Immediately be Barrett Carter plays one hundred percent of the
snaps in Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
It's just it was just a much.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Riskier decision, uh than I feel like this point in
the season warrants.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I have found that sometimes in life, this thing happens
where you're doing your job just fine, everybody seems to
like you, and then they just pull the plug for
no reason, and uh, I don't understand it, and it
defies explanation sometimes. But you know, that's that's why I
search for answers eternally on the search for answers.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, I think the Bengals are eternally on the search
for answers right now too. It feels like that's a
big part of what's happening around here. And we'll see
how lost they are on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I suppose we'll.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
See Paul, I missed you here today, but we'll see
you next week.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thank you as always, I look forward to it. Talk
to everybody.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Likewise, Paul Danner Junior catch the podcast The Growler Podcast,
read him at the Athletic dot Com his piece and
he wrote it on I think he wrote it Friday,
wrote about just what they did to get Joe Flacco
up to speed is really good and again, man, like
they've lost four consecutive games. This seasons is at a
(17:44):
tipping point. We're already breaking the glass and applying the
must win label to the game on Thursday, like things
are knock wing great, the defense is not good.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They're on their.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Third quarterback in seven games, Like, this isn't good, but
Joe Flacco has never elicited strong feelings and maybe that's
his legacy, Like you know when we were doing this
thirteen years ago after they won the Super Bowl. The
whole like, is Joe Flacco elite? And IM like, I'm
gonna sit this one out because the answer is no.
But we'll argue over Joe Flacco if you want.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I've become a fan this week. I thought like he'sat there.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Friday and handled the questions about this just ridiculous situation
with humor, and it it felt like he did everything
he could to prepare himself ready to play, to get
ready to play on Sunday. It felt like the team
did respond to him on some level, certainly in.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The second half.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I don't have uber high hopes that this is gonna
be sustainable. He can't move The offensive line, while it
played decent in the second half, is not great. They
all have a great running game even if they score points.
The defense doesn't feel like they can stop anybody right now.
But you know, we said it last week. It's at
least interesting, and I think Joe Flacco, the way he
has handled this and the way he played in the
(19:04):
second half have made it even more interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It is twenty three after four o'clock. We're at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
We're gonna hear Joe Flacco and Jamar and He've been
waiting all day for this. You'll hear from Joe and
Jamar coming up in twelve minutes on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPNI
Mo Egger News
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