11/11/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Enter this nation. Y keyword on our website, grant, that's grand.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Enter it now.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Bengals Nation lives here. ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (00:12):
That's right, it's a three minutes after three o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty one.

Speaker 5 (00:16):
ED.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
Thank you so much for listening. We are posting up
inside at Oakley Greens, which is an awesome place to
watch college basketball, which you can do tonight. You got
UC versus Dayton, you got Kentucky versus Louisville. You could
watch those games here at Oakley Greens. You can watch
any college basketball game you wanted Oakley Greens. They are

(00:38):
fully decorated for the holiday season. They even have some
of the TVs right now. They got like a fake fireplace,
which just it doesn't really bring any heat, but it
just makes me feel warmer. We love the folks at
Oakley Greens. We are here every single Tuesday. Great place
to watch Bengals games. Bengals Steelers on Sunday, FC Cincinnati
a week from Sunday as the Orange and Blue plays

(01:00):
in the Eastern Conference semi finals. Awesome for your holiday parties,
Awesome for us every single Tuesday, especially when Paul Danner
juniors here as he is for the three o'clock hour
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast. How
are we doing?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm doing great. You know, the Oakley Greens has enough
space that you could have a separate cheering section tonight. Yes,
for your your Dayton people and your Cincinnati people. Keep them,
keep them separated, you know, much like we need between
you guys here.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Cat fans and Dayton fans. We're not talking about a
bunch of ruffians. Ok. These are nice people who can
live with somebody else rooting against their team. There's no
reason to keep everybody separate. You talk about the two kindest,
most understanding fan bases, Cincinnati and Dayton. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Sure, And I just say that if you want to
sit in separate, there's plenty of space to do, yes,
so you don't have to worry about being like next
to the guy who's rooting a little too hard and
a little too in your face about a team. I'm
not saying it would be these two lovely fan bases
of no, of course not. But it does happen with
sports Kentucky and Louisville right now. Excepate I would need

(02:12):
separate buildings.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, you could put them all in here and and
and sort of just work your way among all the
use and Dayton fans tonight and you'll be good to go.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Absolutely plenty of plenty of good games.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
It's awesome to have you. Not a lot going on
in the Monday after the bye week. I really thought
we'd get a nice call Monday. I think, you know
what coming out of.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
The by it's it's what's gonna happen today? You know,
let's just let's just ease into the week, and then
no easing into the week this week. That's okay, though,
I'll take a distraction from the topics that we have
been hammering home. So at least for a few minutes,
it felt like we could be like, oh hey, a

(02:52):
nice thing. So that's kind of how I was for
a few minutes, and then immediately brought back down to earth, realizing, yeah,
it doesn't really.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
I never would have thought that Joe Burrow announcing his
pseudo return and offering a timeline earlier than anybody expected,
would have listened a shoulder shrug. And yet that's where
a lot of us were yesterday. That's where I ended up.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I mean, I think it's I mean, I think what
Joe is doing is again I sort of wrote about it.
It's like, hey, Joe's doing the hero stuff again, Like
this is unbelievable. He does this all the time, and
he always it's it's always unbelievable, and people understandably rally
around it, and it can it can pull a whole

(03:36):
organization along with him when he when he does these
types of things. The problem inevitably is though, Like to me,
my take on yesterday was that the Joe Burrow return
news was not the biggest news to come out of yesterday. No,
the biggest news to come out of yesterday was already
Trey Hendrickson is doubtful for this weekend. That's who they need.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
That's the hero they need right now is number ninety one.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, they they have the I'm not everybody wants to
take this the wrong way when I say this, they
already have. Over the last month since Joe Flacco arrived
at Cincinnati, the number one offense in football by Epapril play,
they've scored thirty eight. They scored eighty and two weeks
thirty three. Like the offense is just not the problem.
They need something otherwise, You're back in the same situation

(04:24):
when we were in last year, when Burrow was playing
right at at the level he was, So, yeah, it's cool, Yes,
I Burrows better than Flacco. I shouldn't have to say that,
but like you do, and it's fine, like, yeah, yes,
obviously that would be good. This is a good development.
But it doesn't change the point of the twenty twenty
five season is that this it doesn't matter if they

(04:46):
can't find somebody or some way to get a stop.
The only hope was that maybe Trey Hendrick saying can
get healthy and be the one to come back and
give you that stop that you need. And now he's
already viewed as doubt which they're not even not even
playing the fake game, you know, the game where we
do the like I don't know, we'll see you're gonna

(05:07):
get him through the week now Wednesday, Yeah, no, doubtful.
And so we're just all ready to that point in
a game where, let's be honest, they're gonna need them.
They're gonna get into the fourth quarter in Pittsburgh, it's
gonna be close or something like that, and you're gonna say, oh,
they just need third and eight, just need one guy.
To get back there, and nobody will the.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Pittsburgh game last year, the game, yeah, or or a
few weeks ago, you know, before the very end where
every game ever for the last two years, it feels
like when he's not out there, So yeah, to me,
it's great, and we can talk all about the borough contingencies,
but they don't really matter because even Burrow at his best,

(05:46):
as we learned last year, can't counter what's happening on
the other side of the football.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
And that's sort of the sad thing. Like I Bengals
fans sent me the Lieutenant Dan on New Year's meme
that I feel like that's just how it feels. It's
like everyone should kind of be celebrating, but the one
that knows it's like, yeah, I know, but I'm still
sad because the reality is that this is your life
right now.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
So we were doing the show yesterday, the Tony and
Mo Football Show, and I was driving to go do it,
and I thought like I should be stoked, like I
should feel like, all right, game on, just in the
nick of time, the season can be saved. And I
felt at two o'clock yesterday afternoon the same way that
I felt at nine o'clock yesterday morning, before I saw

(06:31):
that Joe Burrow was coming back in practice. Yeah, Joe
Burrow's return should not not move the meter the way
it did.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, well, you know, we shouldn't be talking about the
nineteen sixty six New York Giants or the nineteen twenty
one Takawanda Whatever's like. I mean, this is where this
is just the part of the issue. I mean, this
is part of everything right now, is there's a hopelessness
because you don't see answers that can really help you

(07:00):
right now. But yeah, I mean, it's exciting. It'd be
cool to see Burrow come back and be that guy again.
And I think that there's a juice that you can
get from that in a locker room. Yeah, you know,
but I don't know that that goes, you know, all
that far when you have so much to overcome.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
So I think for a lot of us, the discussion
has become about the value in Burrow playing if the
losing continues. So he's not gonna play on Sunday. I
certainly think they have more than a puncher's chance to
beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, but you know, they are underdogs
on the road. They've won one of their last seven,
so you certainly don't assume victory. It's completely plausible to

(07:42):
think that they will lose the next two games against
Pittsburgh and home for New England. At that point, they're
three to eight and maybe not mathematically out of it.
But what is already a long shot becomes even longer,
and then so for a lot of us, there's then
no value in Joe playing. You wrote this quote, even
if out of it, Even if they're out of it,
don't expect Burrow to stand down in his desire to

(08:05):
get back under center. So he's playing no matter what,
when when he's cleared, when he when he finally feels
right close to one hundred percent, at least, he's playing
no matter what.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I think so, I think his sense is when
I'm healthy, I'm the quarterback and I'm here to play.
I mean, this goes back to last year at four
and eight. We're gonna find out who is this you
know we're going to go forward with on this team,
and that all this stuff matters.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
I can help answer that question for this year right now.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I know DJ Turner, yes, yes, but I yeah, I
feel like it goes back to that idea that this
is not to me, this is not gonna be Yeah,
you're impacted by wins and losses, somebody. This is gonna
be about what the doctor says, is there is there

(08:53):
a risk here of reinjury. You know, if you had
surgery and you're all the way back and cleared and
you're doing and there's not not really any risk of
re injury, then if he wants to then you should
play like I mean, this is I get like shelving him,
but if this is not about reinjury, he's a quarterback, Yeah,

(09:13):
like he wants to play football, he should play football.
There's there's value in it. Playing out the string or
not playing out the string. I mean, no one would
have thought at all they would have had a chance
to get back into it at four and eight last
year and they ripped off a bunch of wins and
did find a way. Like to me, I understand the
desire to be like it's over, man, like, just don't

(09:34):
go hurt yourself that right, Joe Burrow didn't get to
this point with that attitude. That's not who he is, right,
And it's not who he is as a person, as
a player and he's gonna want to play, and I
don't think anybody should tell him not to if he's
healthy and there's no extra chance of re injury associated
with this, and that's that's for the doctors to say

(09:57):
at that point in time.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
Even if we get to a point where they are
mathematically eliminated.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I think so. I mean, again, if he's healthy, what's
holding him back? I mean other than than should you
shut him down every time we how many times we
watch this guy in the fourth quarter of a game
where they were down by thirty, Yeah, taking zero blitzes
in the face, didn't want to come out, not going
to come out in respect. That not who I am.

(10:25):
I need this team. This is my team met no
matter what out of it, in it, whatever, If he's healthy,
that's you know, that's what they want to be. It's
what they want this team to be. They want this
team to be people that don't quit, that are like, look,
we're in it. We're with as long as we can

(10:46):
go out there and play. And again the risk situation,
but as long as that's not an issue, then go
play football. And I think that everybody, as long as
the doctors are on board with that, would be on
board with that.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
I understand.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
I understand why fans like I don't want to see
him every no play when it doesn't matter. But that's
just that's not what's gonna help build this team back better.
I don't think.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
To me, it's kind of like the preseason. It sounds
great on Tuesday afternoon, Hey, Joe should play in the preseason,
and then I watch those preseason games and it's like, uh, man,
just make this end. Please, for the love of God,
what are we doing. These games have no value. Get
him out there. Get him out of there.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Like it.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
It sounds great, Joe's gonna play, and you admire it.
And he's a football player, and he's a quarterback and
he's gonna play football, and he's gonna play quarterback, and
that's what you want, and it is what you want
until I'm watching him against the Arizona Cardinals in Week
seventeen in a game that means nothing, and I'm watching
dude's tee off on him so the Bengals can get
win number six or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I don't know, man, I understand. Yeah, I don't know.
I understand. But my point is, if if we're saying
that the toe doesn't.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
It's not so much about the toe, it's about well,
the other way is me is.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Needs to move.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
I understand, point to a place on his body to.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Send send a sacrificial Flacco out there the rest of
the year.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Joey having fun. Yeah, go out there and do what
you gotta do. I understand that. Said, I do believe
there is probably if you are on the side of
the fan base that says they have to change how
Joe Burrow plays because of the risk he is under
when he plays the way he does, the way the
offense is functioned with Joe Flacco as quarterback. I can

(12:37):
certainly understand someone saying, well, the best way to do
that is to have Joe Burrow play and play in
a somewhat newly restructured offense, regardless of how much meaning
the games actually have.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, yes, I mean I think there's something to be
said for that. Joe not exactly interested in that storyline yesterday, No,
not at all.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
You know, I mean I thought that to me was
that was my big takeaway from yesterday, Like.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, it wasn't gonna go there. It wasn't really like
interested in that in that thought, which is fine. And
guy Yeah, I mean I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
here for it. But I mean it's yeah, I I
I understand what you're saying. I just I keep going.
I keep going back to, you know, organizationally, the same

(13:25):
thing we talked about around the trade deadline. M h.
They're not gonna wave the fly. They're not gonna want
it ever to look like there's a game where they're
out there and not doing everything they can to win
as an organization, as the way they just operate. And
I think that could involve Joe Burrow and you know,
if if it's like Joe's good to go, He's it's
all good, go go play, Go play football, and go

(13:48):
play the way that maybe it is using just playing
us the safer, get the ball out faster portion of it.
It's just understanding there's no need to go taking crazy
risks in this game, but go play. Yeah, maybe that
is part of it. Maybe that teaches them something, and
maybe that's connected to the Flacco stuff, Like I don't know,
that's probably minimal in my mind in terms of that.

(14:11):
I think you've got a lot of time to deal
with that. He knows how to play quarterback like that
is a conscious that is not something where he needs
to get reps at it. That's a conscious decision of
I'm gonna get the ball out, you know, a higher
percentage of the time and do less of the trying
to do crazy playmaking unless I have to. He knows
what that is. If he wants to do it, he

(14:32):
doesn't have to do anything. So I just I don't
think he needs I don't think that. I don't think
that's big of a part of the equation. All right,
So him back to not playing. You're backing on.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Find by me. Look, here's to shut down the season,
So why play anybody? Well, okay, if there are games
that mean absolutely nothing, to shut down everyone, shut down everybody, like,
I have no problem with that. If there is a
mathematic chance, as there was last year, go for it,
go for it as against the odds as it may be.

(15:05):
I have no problem. But if if you're playing out
the string and you decide we want to protect our
most important assets, I don't have any issue.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
With that at all, So shut down Jamar and t too.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Yeah, those are the most important assets. That everybody just
says if the games mean and it would be one
thing if you're playing an opponent that's playing for something
and you could be a spoiler. That's something. There's I
get the integrity of the league sort of thing. Yeah,
but if you're playing Arizona and Cleveland the last two
weeks and the games have zero bearing on the postseason,
I have no issue with anybody who says I would

(15:37):
rather protect my most prized assets and the pieces that
give me a chance to win next year, even if
it puts a more inferior product on the field in
the short term.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, that's fine, And I think that's a one a
week eighteen conversation, right. I don't you know, I don't
know how much earlier you're gonna you're gonna get. I
do not expect saying why we're in it now. That's
because we're talking about the plan for Barack.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
I do not expect them if they lose the next
two to tell Joe Burrow if he's cool, if he's
one hundred percent. I don't expect them to say, you
know what, we're three and eight, we're not gonna play
against Baltimore. That doesn't bother me at all. I would also, though,
have no issue with there's an X or a Y
or is it whatever they put next to the team
that's been eliminated and they're playing out the string, whether

(16:25):
it's Miami or Arizona Cleveland. And by the way, I
hope they beat the Pittsburgh Steelers and think they have
a chance and this becomes a moot conversation. But if
you if you play those last few games and they
have no bearing whatsoever on the postseason, I would absolutely
have no issue with the Bengals going These are our
most important assets. We are protecting them to the best

(16:47):
we can.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Remember the end of the season where Sam Hubbard was
hurt and he played. I go back to that. I
feel like they want that to be the core of
who they are, right Sam Hubbard battling through stuff. Nobody
for an absolute second would have thought twice about that

(17:10):
dude hanging it up and not playing in the final game.
That absolutely meant nothing. But I'm a captain of this team.
With my team's on the field, I'm out there with
my guys, right, That's what I am. I think that
there's value in that in terms of this is the
standard around here? Okay, we have enough problems we see

(17:33):
in this building with standards not being upheld sure, and
people not living up to certain levels of caring that
you want to see. And I feel like the same
way they held Joe Flacco with the ac join up
and said, this is it. This guy, No one would
fault him for not going out there and playing while

(17:55):
his arm's falling off. He's forty by week, come in,
but he plays right. I feel like we see this
and we see this being shown by them as far
as this is what we want to be, and who
else to show who you want to be other other
than Joe and Jamar and some of these guys. And
I understand the big picture, and there's nervousness. It's just

(18:18):
I think the value organizationally in holding people to this
standard and this is what we want to kind of
be and who we want to be known for. I
think there's I think there's value in that that can
inevitably be trumped by logic in certain situations. But I
just think there's gonna be an extremely in the other
direction when we start if we start talking about this down.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
The stretch, but we're not. We're not because you don't
need to, because they're gonna be Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's they did just do it a few weeks ago.
So it's not like it's off the table. It's not
like they weren't one play away from having three wins
in a row and actually being in first place right now.
Like it's crazy when you think about it.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
I said on this, and I know I gotta get
a break in midweek last week, somebody after the bye
is gonna rush to the front of the line to
be the first to change the narrative and talk about
how they're going to be Pittsburgh. At three twenty two today,
I am the first in line.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, let's go.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
They're beating Pittsburgh on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, for many reasons, yes, I mean, and we will
discuss them. I assume I was waiting. I didn't want
to step on your little seg going to.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
Beat the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday. Yeah, it feels it
feels very a season of plotists. There will be another
one and then by Monday afternoon.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Here we go, Here we go, how they beat the Patriots.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
It is twenty three minutes after three o'clock. We're at
Oakley Greens. I'm drinking a coke right now.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I've yeah, I see that.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Just in case anybody thinks something sitting here all afternoon
pounding them back.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't know. It is a coke. It is a
straight Coca cola. Class making bold claims about this team
going on the road to beat Pittsburgh. You could have
been infused with something.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
All right, we'll talk about how bold that like. Take
maybe coming up here and just a bit. Paul Danner Junior,
Theathletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast on Twitter at Paul
Danner Junior. He's here till four, We're here till six.
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 6 (20:12):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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(21:11):
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Speaker 4 (21:17):
Three thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty mo Igorant Oakley Greens. Paul
Beaner Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
This is going to be a very short segment. I
have a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
On my piece of paper here that I want to
talk about that seems hard to do.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
I've written down some things you have written about, like
I've quoted you and I just did one. I've got
a couple from your mail bag.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I see you wrote it, you wrote it down, Yeah, no,
no printer access.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
And then actually today no, okay, I was I was
at uc between getting ready for a basketball game and
waiting for Scott Saderfield.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
So old school, loose leaf and penn, oh school, loose
leaf and pen look at you go? All right, I
appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
So some of those larger topics we're going to to
get to in the second half hour. I've visit because
we'll have more time, and then I have a request
for what happens this weekend. But since we only have
a second here. When you were last with me, we
were closing it on the trade deadline, and you were
a little antsy thinking maybe Trey Hendrickson is going to
be traded.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
He was not.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
So now the conversation advances, although it really doesn't because
time with Trey is a flat circle. Should they franchise
tag them? Will they franchise tag them?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
No? Okay, I think I think the experiment is probably
just gonna come to a merciful end. It's probably my guest.
I mean, here, do we do this all the time.
Right now, we're gonna be back and they're like, oh, well,
you know they're tagging trade and this is just not
something I see them executing, you know, And that's just
this just feels like it just goes It goes the

(22:49):
way of Trey goes off or get the cop pick.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
I'm not ready for it. To end.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
You want more?

Speaker 4 (22:55):
I want I'm not ready for it to end.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I am.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
But are the Bengals I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, they still don't have any answers, right, but
they also have so many problems. It's the same flat
circle conversation. They still have so many problems. So what
are you gonna do? I mean, are you really gonna
pour the amount of money that it would take to
keep him for his older seasons when you need, like,
you need to use that money on four competent starters,
right they Trey is at this point, he's almost luxury item.

(23:28):
You need competent starters, somebody that will keep your defense
from being historically bad and compared to the Dayton triangles. Okay,
this is what you are searching for, and so if
you need competent levels starters, you need that money to
go acquire competent level starters. That's where I feel like

(23:48):
it sits. There's also a lot of decisions between now
and then to get figured out, but it feels like
the end.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
Trey Hendrickson for a while now has been a part
of my daily routine where I wake up in the
morning and as I'm brushing my teeth. I go, Okay,
what are we going to say today about Trey Hendrickson.
I'm not ready for that. I can't just pull that
band aid off. That's not something you just quit cold Turkey.
You can still do that with whatever he does. If
he goes somewhere else, I'm sure he'll still be saying
and doing things over there. I don't care.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Then, Yeah, that's less interesting. I understand. I'm saying you could.
You can always think about him.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
I want to talk about a sentence I did not
think I would read earlier this year. When we come
back to Oakley Greens.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well done.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
After sports headlines on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Where Passion mes play.

Speaker 10 (24:32):
Welcome to the Ultimate Sports Showdown Tony Pike, Sincy three
sixty today at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen.

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Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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care at the UC Cancer Center. Get a second opinion
Fast call five one three five eighty five U SECC
on southbound seventy five at seventh Street. It's an accident
that's off onto the right shoulder. Also an accident westbound
on three Rivers Parkway at dining Lane right now traffic

(25:11):
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traffic this report.

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credit approval from their family to yours for life, Kelsey
chev dot Any Bengels.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
News Tonight, thank your not really nothing nothing A major note.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
College basketball tonight, you see host dayon both teams two
and oh tip off at seven at fifth third on
seven hundred WLW Tonight at the Young Center, Louisville hosts UK.
That game tips off at eight. You can listen to
it on ESPN fifteen thirty with pregame coverage beginning at
six pm. Also this evening, Ohio State takes on app
State and Wright State hooks up with Toledo. The Columbus

(25:57):
Blue Jackets skate on the road tonight against the Seattle
Paul Danner Junior's here from the Athletic.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
You did something that made me nervous. You just quickly,
at the last second, pulled up the story and did
a finding replace for a keyword, to go find something
specifically in there, and now I'm nervous.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
There's no reason to be nervous.

Speaker 11 (26:13):
Yeah, what's it about?

Speaker 4 (26:14):
So you did a mailbag? Yeah, I would like to
see the correspondence that you don't reply to? Could we do?
There were?

Speaker 2 (26:24):
No, there were a lot.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
Actually, could we do like a segment where I respond
to the letters or the emails? You don't?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Boy, do I have some Do I have some comments
for you? You should? You should? Actually that actually would
have been a better mail bag is just the emails
and the and the questions that I got. Yes, they
weren't questions like I got a lot that were just
like one thousand word diatribes with lots of expletives and
all caps, and I'm like, I don't know like what

(26:52):
you're asking of me here, but the answer is probably
not what you want it to be.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
You you were asked a question about the offensive line. Yeah,
and the reason I highlighted it is I didn't write
down the exact passage.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
No, that's good of you.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
So, but I knew you mentioned one of the offensive lineman.
So I did a quick search for Carris.

Speaker 12 (27:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
I could have done Rivers, I could have done Mims.
I just did Carris. But you were asked a question about, hey,
the offensive line, is it like really getting better? And
you acknowledged something that I would not have thought was
a possibility a month ago. You wrote being able to
confidently say Orlando Brown, Junior, Dylan Fairchild, Ted Carris, Jalen
Rivers and a Marius Mims are the twenty twenty six
opening day starters. Would be particularly advantageous if everyone could

(27:37):
continue this momentum that feels like something that's on the table.
And I would have laughed at you six weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and it's like, okay, you might have some stability here.
It's now I think Rivers, I don't know. Man, Like
we'll see sure. Yeah, Like he's not all the way there,
he's still out, but they've been good enough to make
this offense do what it's done. Flacco is in the

(28:05):
top five in terms of sack percentage in on the
good top five. They're protecting him. He's yeah, he's getting
the ball out fast, but they're running the ball. They're
most efficient running games and football. They're doing all these
things with those guys in there, you can say, oh, well,
you know, Flacco has gone run. You can say all
these other things, but like they've done it. And so

(28:25):
if we're gonna sit here and we're gonna rip the
offensive line when they're not doing those things, let's give
them credit here because these things that have changed with
this offense, a lot of it has come back to
things that the offensive line had to change and do better.
And that has been a large part of Jalen Rivers
and Dylan Fairchild and rising when he's been in and others.

(28:47):
But like them finding some development, some cohesion and getting
things done a lot more consistently. So I think there's
you know, there seems to be real hope there. I mean,
we talked to Dan Pitcher last week and I sort
of was asking about this and he's like, I just
I don't want it to sound at all like it

(29:08):
seems like we've arrived, because we have not. He's like,
but you know, there really are. There's just a lot
of positive things that you can build on. There's plenty
that they're working on, but there's a lot of positive
things that you're seeing now and they're just starting to
see some of the gains after that incredibly rocky start.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Well, and the key for me second year player and
two rookies. Yeah, that we're at least acknowledging. I think
it's fair to wonder, like how long in the tooth
is Orlando Brown and Ted Carris. Those are legitimate concerns.
You can't have enough offensive line and I'm sure we'll
be talking about O line depth this offseason no matter what.
But right there is what we had talked about prior

(29:46):
to the twenty twenty four draft. If you're gonna build
a good offensive line and have it be sustainable, it's
gonna have to come via the draft. And there are
some decent early returns. Yeah. I don't want to get
ahead of myself either. Yeah, but when I read that
part of your mail bag and I'm like, you know
what that's not, I didn't. I didn't WinCE when you

(30:06):
wrote that.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
So this has this has been my theory where I've
It's kind of where I've sort of started on offense
and with that conversation with the offensive line, when I've
been asked a lot about how big is this defensive rebuild?
Like it's obviously massive, I mean, but what are we
talking how many years? And my point is name me
who's not back on offense next year. Your whole offense

(30:30):
is set. Yeah, So when your whole offense is set,
you can use every pick, every dollar in free agency,
everything that you have at your disposal you can throw
at this defense. And that could be a lot of things,
and so you can you can change it all over
fairly quickly. You can throw a top ten pick in
there and a serviceable levels. That's why you don't play

(30:54):
Joe there, you go tank tank for RVL rees. I mean,
I don't yeah, I don't know, like I'm I'm just
saying the state of the offense in terms of everything
being very set for a while now, I mean all
your positions and whatever you you know, you're you're always
thinking next for the offensive line. But I mean, for

(31:17):
the most part, you can use the vast majority of
your resources in next offseason where you are top ten
in cap space, you're gonna have some picks. You can
keep throwing those at the defense and hope that you
find some that stick. I just when you don't have
to worry about really anything on offense right now, it
does open up some doors for you to make quick

(31:39):
work of a flip over.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
So you went where I was gonna go to next
because you referred to quote a multi year down to
the studs. Gut job. Yeah, when it comes to the defense, yeah,
And the way I'm thinking, the way that gets accelerated
is if I don't have to devote as much, well,
you know, with them, it's an issue of time, because
we saw that with Chason Higgins. Devoted all the time
to those dudes and then couldn't sign anybody in free agency.

(32:01):
But if you want to hasten what looks like a
very very very substantial rebuild on defense, the easiest way
to do that is to be set on the other
side of the ball. Yeah, and if that offensive line
continues its current trajectory, that might.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Be the case. I mean, it's like everything though, it
all comes back to the young players getting better. Is
how many years there are on this defensive rebuild, and
that would include the guards. If Jalen Rivers falls off
the second half of this season and you're like, oh,
we still got an issue there that we got to
figure out, or you know, you start to be like, well,
we've got to find a tackle of the future in

(32:38):
case we're not in Orlando Brown. Unless you start to
worry more about that or and the same way that
Shamar Stewart and Demitrius Knight and Barrett Carter if they
just don't show any progress over the second half of
this season. Yeah, it extends the length of how far
this rebuild must go. You want more, you know, if
we're going down to the studs, I'd like for there

(32:59):
to be more than one stud Yeah, you know, like
I need more than one thing to build on. If
I could, if you could get a couple more guys
that you feel like over the second half of this season,
you're like, can build around that that that I put
that with with Turner and one other thing and okay,
now filling all the rest, then it doesn't feel as

(33:21):
far off. I don't think that. I mean, you know,
a lot things happen quick in the NFL, but like
the idea of them rebuilding and being some sort of
top ten unit next year feels crazy. But you can
I think that I'll take I'll take top thirty. How
about how about only comparing it to teams that are
bad this year and not from the sixties. If we

(33:43):
can get to that, I think the way you can
turn things over in the NFL, I mean the heck
much less we talk about in college football, like the
way you can turn it over fast. If you make
the right moves, you can get to a mid level.
You can you can put serviceable pieces in there if
you can find a few things to build around. If
you can't, then you know you're you're gonna keep doing
this searching for young players and living with growing pain,

(34:06):
stuff that they've kind of been doing this year.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
One thing they could do, and you reference this, is
go ahead and get a jump start on getting DJ
Turner locked in long term.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think it's an interesting uh test. Yeah, two, are
you doing the same thing? We're gonna keep doing the
same thing that gots you in this spot? Are you
gonna wait or are you going to say, Hey, here's
a chance for a philosophy switch, Tom. Let's start building
around something right. Here's this guy who earned it and

(34:39):
is doing it the right way and played himself into
one of the best cornerbacks uh in the game this year.
Let's build around him. Let's pay him extension eligible now
for the first time, Let's pay him. Let's get ahead
of the market, and let's let's let's show that we're
trying something new. Or or you're or you're gonna say

(34:59):
I want to see another year of health and the
same level of play. Go do it again? Right? And
then and then you're talking about Okay, you're, you're, but
at some point then he's is he gonna hit free agency?
Are you gonna what do you can do this?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Although?

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Are you gonna go back? We're gonna franchise tag DJ Turner?

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Is he gonna request a trade? And then and then
you have then you can talk about DJ Turner. He'll
be the next to the line, right, Yeah, we had
we had Jesse Bates. Of course we have had Trey
Hendrickson Higgins, and maybe DJ Turner will be next for
you and you can wake up thinking about him.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Every day and what he's got going on. I want
to wake up and read your gamer and I know
you don't at the Athletic don't write you know, traditional
gamers or watch the walkout. Yeah, and after the Bengals
have beaten the Pittsburgh Steelers, I want to either read
or hear or both references to how as was predicted

(35:54):
on this show.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Mo had it first, Mo had it first. You were
the first one in the Yes, not afraid to say it.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
The offense is cooking. They're coming off a bye. The
Steelers are not intimidating. No, Mike Tomlin's getting mad at
reporters for asking legit questions about his quarterbacks. Quarterbacks like
one hundred years old. They've beaten them already recently. They
should go to Pittsburgh and win.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, I think this is one hundred percent a game
that you should expect this team to win. I mean
they are when you have the offense playing. One thing
that that teams run into when they play the Steelers
is if you're just not familiar with the style of
game you have to play against them. It's different like teams.
Teams get wrapped up in that. I think that happened

(36:37):
to the Colts. Yeah, I think that happened to the
Colts a little bit.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
But I don't think they played that style here. I
don't think they've played it against the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Don't the Chargers. The Bengals don't play into it. I
think the Chargers knew what they were doing with it, right,
and you know what are they I mean, who's the
corner opposite Porter right now? Is going to be Pierce
and they're moving Jalen Ramsey to safety, right, they are searching, okay,
and if you know, I think the one thing you

(37:06):
could say is okay, all right, young defense.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
Yeah, you just saw this a few weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You know what they're gonna do. Let's let's go through
this again. Let's try this a second time. It could
be a good test for this defense in regards of
can you start learning from your mistakes? Here's literally the
same mistakes and the same people you just did this
against the week before. Can can you just find a
way to clean those up a little bit? You're gonna
see the same players and the same plays, the same

(37:32):
stuff here. Can you be a little bit better? Whereas
I don't I have thoughts that maybe that could happen.
I don't have many thoughts that the Steelers are all
of a sudden just gonna like shut down this offense.
I just think the offense is in too good of
a place right now, and the matchup is, you know,
too nice for what the Bengals want to do. And
how quickly Flacco is getting the ball out.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
You you can reference it even if I'm not right.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, go ahead. No, most said first they were gonna win,
and then they lost by twenty eight, right, and then
we can use it to talk about you.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
But fine by me. It's okay. But somebody was gonna
be for there will be others by Friday. Everybody is
gonna have the Bengals win. In fact, it's then I
may do it a heel turn to go. Actually, nah,
they're not gonna beat the Steelers. Somebody was gonna be first.
What is it about the Steelers that makes that crazy?

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Though? Is the only thing? I mean to me, that's it.
It's it's you had their game against the Colts, which
just seemed like a weird thing. Otherwise, I mean, look
at the team that the Steelers have been, even.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Even when they have won games earlier in the season,
they were not imposing that indye, win is a very
good wine. The Colts, I think, are really good. But
there's the brand and there's what you've come to expect.
And look, the Bengals have all sorts of defensive issues,
and so they may give up forty two points to
know what he would be surprised. I don't think there's
anything scary about the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Certainly not a few. I mean, when you just experienced
this a few weeks ago, and they're you know, their
their offense is not scary. Their offense is whatever Dk
Metcalf is gonna be able to get for them in
very little else Sometimes they run the ball and defensively
they're kind of a mess, and and they're either turnovers
or bust. They either get turnovers and find a way

(39:14):
to win or they don't when they lose. That's been
the case pretty much across the board. That's how they
beat Indianapolis. I mean Daniel Jones with all those turnovers
in that game, and so the one that's the one
thing Flacco has been good at. That's what they've They've
found a way to protect the ball, manage the game,
get the ball out quick, don't let t J. Watt
and Keanu Benton and Cam Hayward and all those guys

(39:36):
tear you up. And you know, the the recipe is there.
They just at some point mo in the fourth quarter
are gonna need to go out there and get a stop.
And that's probably where nol God has been working on.
What got misconstrued was you thought they were just saving

(39:57):
all the stuff and hiding everything in the preseason. What
he actually meant was through the first half too, and
then after the bye week, just unleash on the league.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Can I tell you what I think the most annoying
thing about the Steelers is right now? It's their special
teams coach. Oh yeah, that guy.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Chewing the gummy.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
He gets more TV time than any special teams coach
in the league. Chris Collins weren't done talk about special
teams coaches. I'm watching the game. You would think the
guy like invented kicking. He's been there a long time.
I'm sure he's a nice guy. There's no other team
where you see the special teams coach as much as
you do when you watch.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
The Steelers, unless you have one of these like big
special teams coaches that likes to run the field with
his team. Yeah, jump in the air and do all
kinds of crazy stuff. Sometimes you get that guy, that
crazy guy.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
But this guy back in the day, the Cowboys had
a special teams coach because he had like Jesus hair,
so you kind of noticed him. Other than that, you
don't notice special teams coaches until the Steelers play. They
don't stop showing that guy, Like, bro, you're a special
teams coach.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Let's put an over undrawn number of cutaways for our
guy on Sunday nine and a half, count them up
nine and a half. Think I think under Night under nine.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Well, the Bengals win by more points than cutaways to
the special teams code.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh wow, you heard it here first.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Thank you as always Reed Paul's work The Athletic dot Com.
Listen to the podcast or watch the podcast The Growlar
Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Pat noon and joins
us Next word Oakley Queen's This is ZESPN fifteen.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.

Speaker 8 (41:33):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more options
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(41:54):
westbound on three rivers parkways still got that accident at
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Cole Raine an accident at Hopple I'm at Ezelac with traffic.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Dollar entered this nationwide keyword on our website cash, that's cash.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Enter it now.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
No one covers the Bengals like ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
There you go. It's four minutes after this is firteen
thirty five over. Thank you so much for listening. Today
we are posting on that Oakley Greens Wow where you
can watch FC Cincinnati versus Miami a week from Sunday,
the Orange and Blue advancing to the Eastern Conference Semifinals
after a stirring victory over Columbus on Saturday night at

(42:42):
TQL Stadium. The atmosphere for that match was awesome. The
head coach of FC Cincinnati, who was always kind enough
to join us whenever we ask, Pat Newton, is with us. Coach,
congratulations on advancing to the Eastern semis. It's awesome to
have you.

Speaker 13 (42:56):
How are you, thanks, mo, I appreciate you having me
doing so.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Yeah, no, me too. So. Game two could could not
have gone more poorly. And you hear it in all sports, right,
burn the tape? Was that? Was that? The approach? Was
it something you dwelled on? How did you handle the
aftermath of that second game?

Speaker 13 (43:19):
I would say we burned half the tape. You know,
there were still things that we wanted to take away
from that game, as far as how how we started,
and you know some of the things that led up to, uh,
you know, the two goals that we conceded and going
down a man. But you know, after that, you're just
looking for how guys respond and how they how they
perform when things aren't going their way, which was the

(43:42):
remainder of the game. And yeah, the outcome wasn't good.
We conceded a few more goals, but I think the
guys went about it the right way, and the message
was to quickly forget about it because the season's still
going and we have a chance to respond in a
good way. And I think the guys certainly did that.
On Sat really pleased with the performance and of course

(44:03):
the outcome.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
So you talk about responding. Columbus scores in the sixty
third minute. This is easy to say because you score
four minutes later. I know as a fan it's panic, right,
You're in the second half, there's roughly thirty minutes to go,
your season is hanging in the balance. But I didn't
detect panic. It felt to me like, all right, we've

(44:25):
got our work cut out for us. Obviously it's a
team that's really good at possessing the ball. I've seen
clubs where it feels like in that scenario there was panic.
That didn't feel like the case on Saturday.

Speaker 13 (44:36):
No, I think there was a quick recognition of you know,
we got to move on, and to be honest with
how we conceded the goal and what looked to be
a pretty clear offside. You know, I think our emotions
on the sideline could have you know, made the players
uneasy and on edge, but the message was we need
to move on and we didn't get the call, so

(44:58):
how do we respond? And you saw it with the players.
They I think understood that the aftermath of conceding that
goal was going to be so vital and us get
an outcome. You know, of course, the how quickly we
get that goal is is so important. But even after
we con see guys you know, put their head down
and you know, it wasn't like we took on immediate pressure.

(45:19):
We found a way to get you know, a corner
and a set piece, and so that immediately shifts the
momentum back in our favor, which was huge, and obviously
I think we carried that momentum into the to the
second goal, and you know it could have been a
little bit better, and how we saw the game out
with the lead. But like I said that that immediate

(45:42):
stretch after conceding the goal was you know why we
have the feeling we do right now, why we were
able to experience a victory.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
The goals are scored by Brenner. You'll take him from anybody,
but it is it is a cool story after you
acquire him during the transfer window. Walk me through your
role in that process late summer.

Speaker 13 (46:01):
Well, when his name was brought up, it was kind
of a smirk of you know, are we are we
serious here? And you know, how do we make this possible?
And then really it was we need to get on
a call. We need to be on a zoom call
with Brenner and and just see where he's at. You know,
he don't always get the answers, but it was important
that we delivered a message of intent and he understood

(46:25):
what our expectations were. We could get a better feel
for where he was at and why this could work.
And so from that call, or you know, the few
calls that we had, it felt like this was a
good opportunity and you know, I don't want to call
it a risk, but a chance to take on a
player that maybe left the wrong way. We felt to

(46:48):
come back in a better way. And he certainly has
showed that that time at Day helped him mature, It
helped him appreciate maybe what he had here, and you know,
we're really pleased with the Brenn that we've seen since
he's returned.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
A coach is always going to turn the page as
quickly as possible, and you've got your hands full of
the week from Sunday that said, so you advance, which
you didn't do last year. You beat Columbus. We all
knew everything that from the past that hung over that series.
How gratifying was at home in particular to advance and

(47:24):
beat the side that you guys were able to knock
out of the postseason.

Speaker 13 (47:28):
It was massive. You know, I struggle at times to
really be in the moment and enjoy a big win
like that, but I think, you know, going into the
international break, who we beat, I enjoyed that moment, you know,
with the staff, the players, the fans, owner, everybody that
was you know, a part of that atmosphere at TQO.

(47:49):
You know, I think more than I have in the past.
And even the days after, you know, we had a
couple of days off. I enjoyed time with my family,
I got some stuff done on the to do list
that doesn't require work related tasks, and then you know,
we're back to work today. But it was just a
special moment. And you know, I maybe didn't live in

(48:11):
the past the way some others had, as far as
the disappointment from twenty three, but I understand how much
it means to this city and these fans, and so
to see, you know, the joy that it brought them
and to hear, you know, after the fact, just what
it means to people.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
It is.

Speaker 13 (48:27):
You know, it's satisfying. It's it's nice that you know,
everybody's experiencing this high together. And what I said after
the game was, while this is a very important win,
it wasn't our goal. Our goal wasn't to get past
the first round of the playoffs whoever we were playing.
So now we have our next challenge, which is Miami,
and it's going to be just as difficult, and I'm

(48:49):
excited to see how our guys. You know, I don't
want to say respond but step up again because that's
what it's going to take for us to go and
do it.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
In advance a best of three series. Is the international
break welcome or would it be better for your team
in particular if the game were this weekend.

Speaker 13 (49:11):
I think for everybody the following weekend, just with the
momentum with you know, I think fan engagement, you know,
I often you know hear from family members, friends, it's
the confusion around the next game. In these international breaks,
during the playoffs and during the end of the season,
it kind of throws off the rhythm. So I think

(49:31):
if you ask most people, myself included, let's go again
the next week and try to you know, maintain that
momentum and energy and attention to our team. And so
I think it just kind of maybe takes a little
bit of the wind out of the sales with not
having a game this weekend. But you know, that's that's
our reality, not just ours, but everybody who's still in

(49:54):
the playoffs. So hopefully down the road we figure out
how to, you know, come up with a platform where
where you're just not sitting around for so long.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
You mentioned having a non work to do list when
you sit down to plan for Miami and they they
have a player some have heard of named Lionel Messi.
What does the to do list look like for for
you over the course of the next week and a
half as you get set for next Sunday.

Speaker 13 (50:19):
Well, it's it's no different. We're analyzing, you know, their
recent games. Maybe we'll look back at our last matchup
to see what we can take out of that game.
If if some of the structural you know stuff has
remained the same, They're certainly improved. They got a couple
of different pieces on the field in different positions that

(50:40):
weren't a part of you know, our game or our
two games. So, you know, try to make sure that
we put an emphasis on us and what we need
to do to succeed, but always reminding our guys of
you know, of the threat of our opponent, and certainly
you mentioned Messi. We're going to have to do a
really good job of womening his his touches, his involvement

(51:02):
in the final third. And you know, I say that,
but you know he's done in his entire career. It's
how many times can you limit it and can you
keep them away from you know, having time and space
to make you know, the plays that he's capable of making.
So it's a great challenge for our guys. And you know,
they've stepped up in the past, and this will be

(51:22):
an even bigger moment and a bigger challenge, And I'm
excited for the opportunity for all these guys.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
No nobody wants to make a match like this about
two individual players, but you have I think two of
the signature stars of Major League soccer. Obviously and Messi,
but also a Vander. And you joined me just prior
to the season beginning, and you had just acquired a Vander.
We've seen how good he has been for you. But
but take me behind the scenes. Give me an area

(51:48):
where he's impacted your club that that maybe we're not
as privy to.

Speaker 13 (51:54):
I think his maturity, you know, let's we'll go away
from the field. I think it's how he goes about,
you know, his profession and and what kind of teammate
he is. You know, we look, all the eyes are
on the player on the field and what they're capable
of doing, and certainly he's capable of the spectacular. But

(52:16):
when people don't see the behind the scenes. If Yeah,
there's a lot of great players that aren't great teammates
and and see stepped foot in the building. He's tried
to connect in the right ways with his teammates, with
staff members and very respectful. You know, he's he's a
fairly i would say quiet guy as far as you

(52:37):
know his demeanor. But you know, the way he interacts
with his teammates and connects with different cultures is the
staff members. He's got a good sense of humor, he's
got bite, but he's just he's a He's so pleasant
to be around because it's he's a natural star as
far as being a part of the team and just

(52:57):
wanting to help.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
J sounds awesome. Great answer. Congratulations. I know you have
a ton going on, so I appreciate you doing this.
Best of luck a week from Sunday and beyond, and
it's always awesome A heavy coach, Thanks so.

Speaker 13 (53:11):
Much, Thanks Mell, appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
That's Pat Noonan FC Cincinnati playing Miami Massive Tilt Eastern
Conference Semifinals at TQL Stadium a week from Sunday. That
game on Saturday evening was awesome and I'll be honest
with you, if you're a Cincinnati sports fan. When Columbus
scored in the sixty third minute. I think we all

(53:37):
just thought, like, this is how it goes. This is
how it goes. It's how it went last year. They
come back and they win, Brenner scoring the two goals.
We all know how it ended for him two years ago.
We all kind of asked the same thing when they
acquired him in early September, is this really gonna work well?
On Saturday? It did sixteen minutes after four o'clock ESPN
fifteen thirty. We're broadcasting from Oakley Greens. You know, you

(53:58):
can watch f C Cincinnaty at Oakley Greens. You can
watch college basketball this season at Oakley Greens. You can
have your holiday party at Oakley Greens. You can come
hang out with us every Tuesday at Oakley Greens. The
twenty twenty six Reds Hall of Fame Modern Player ballot
is out. We'll take a look at it next.

Speaker 6 (54:19):
Lea's play.

Speaker 10 (54:20):
Welcome to the Ultimate Sports Showdown Tony Pikes, Sincy three
sixty tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty. This
is Football in the NATI, brought to you by Belterra
Casino and Belterra Park on ESPN fifteen thirty the official
home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
All right, it's twenty two minutes after four o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty on Boeggers. The twenty twenty six
Reds Hall of Fame candidates for the Modern Player ballot
came out last week. You can vote right now for
a group of players that and consists of Homer Bailey,
Francisco Cordero, Zach Cozart, Aaron Harang, Mike Leak, Brandon Phillip Scott, Rowland,

(55:06):
and Edinson Volcez. You can vote right now at Redsmuseum
dot org. Two modern Players will be selected as part
of the Class of twenty twenty six. Here to tell
us more, by the way, Hall of Fame Weekend, the
induction weekend is going to take place April twenty fourth
through twenty six, so a little bit earlier than usual.
Rick Walls, executive director of the Reds Hall of Fame

(55:28):
m Museum, is with us. Rick. It's awesome to have you.
How are you great?

Speaker 12 (55:31):
Thanks for having me. Exciting time of the year for
the Hall of Fame prepping for twenty twenty six.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting you and I talk about
this every year and for a while, we had talked about,
you know what coming down the pike, we're there's gonna
be a lot of guys. There gonna be a lot
of guys who are part of those teams, you know,
the two thousand's, early twenty tens, and we're here, Rick,
time flies.

Speaker 13 (55:51):
It does.

Speaker 12 (55:52):
It's fun to kind of evaluate in vote on players
that I remember more recently playing. And that's why we
put the vote back into the fame, right, so the
fans have a say and who's going to be going
into the Reds Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
They get a vote.

Speaker 12 (56:04):
It's going to be combined with the alumni as well
as mediaf so the three components will make up who
the two people are they're going to go in next
year and twenty twenty six. Now they'll be a veteran
candidate as well, one or two, but two players this
time around from the twenty twenty six for this twenty
twenty six ballot.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
All right, what was the criteria to be included on
the modern player ballot?

Speaker 12 (56:27):
So you've got to have played The minimum for any
candidates the Hall of Fame is three years with the Reds.
And remember we're just considering Red's careers. You've got to
kind of remove some of their successes or accolades or
even failures from other teams when you're evaluating the candidates.
But three years, you have to be out of baseball
for five years, and then you have to have played
within the last fifteen pretty much mirrors National Baseball Hall

(56:49):
of Fame number rules at least the beginning where you
have to be out five years. So you start looking
at some of the new guys that are on the
ballot this time, and this ballot changes, Some come on,
some go off. Ones that go off will go to
a veterans committee. So that's your basic criteria. There's no
particular number of batting average or strikeouts as a team
hall of Fame, and we want the fans to help

(57:10):
evaluate who they think belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
I think this is the first time you've had two
players get voted on this ballot. I also think it's
the first time you've had as many as eight.

Speaker 12 (57:23):
Am I correct, Well, I think eight might be the
right number, but we did take two back I think
in two thousand and four.

Speaker 13 (57:30):
Possibly.

Speaker 12 (57:31):
I mean, you're going pretty far back to when balloting
came back into play, so there was another time of that,
but no, there's traditionally there has only been one from
this and this year. There's an election Governance Committee of
the Boarder Directors of the Hall of Fame that reviews
all the candidates and given the last ten years there's
only been eight inductees, We've had a couple of years

(57:52):
where there's only been one Pete Rose in sixteen, Marty
Brenneman winning in twenty one, and then there was also
a couple of years where we didn't have inductions, so
we got off our every other year cycle a little bit.
Twenty twenty five was targeted to be a year for
induction since we did one in twenty three, but due
to the focus and emphasis on the fiftieth anniversary the
seventy five Championship, we decided to move it off to

(58:15):
this year and that was strategically done. And here we are,
and I think we're going to have a good class.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
When do the other members of the Class of twenty
twenty six get announced?

Speaker 12 (58:27):
So everybody will be announced in one single announcement, probably
about the second week of December. So while the fan
voting is going on. We're mailing out ballots to the
alumni and also to media. Now to be a Reds
alum to be eligible to vote, you also have to
have played three years with the Reds, so a lot
of the teammates of these players will be voting, so
that really does play into this. The Veterans Committee will

(58:49):
meet the first week of December. We'll take the results
of both of those that come out with the class
announcement in the second week of December, right before the holidays,
and hopefully we'll have these players back in and visiting
the Hall of Fame and the ballpark often, maybe even
RedFest next year. So look a lot to look forward to.
And you mentioned it earlier, that induction a little earlier
this year April twenty four, twenty five, twenty six. The

(59:11):
celebration will have meet and greets in the museum with
not just the current inductees, but this is a great
celebration of Red's history. We bring back all of the
Hall of famers to visit them and their families and
just have a wonderful celebration.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
You can cast your ballot Redsmuseum dot org through November
the twenty seventh one ballot per person slash email address
per day. You mentioned something that's important because it was
sorely missed last year due to the construction of the
Convention Center downtown. But Reds Fest will be back.

Speaker 12 (59:45):
It will be you know, and it's another reason why
there was an induction last year. We really wanted the
gala at the Convention Center, a big fundraiser for the
museum that's associated with the induction, of course, but RedFest
is an exciting time for the museum and all Reds
fans back in the Convention Center, the first major event
there chance you know, tickets just went on sale yesterday,

(01:00:06):
so it's a great opportunity to meet with current players
and coaches, photograph opportunities. You just know, there's memorabilia everywhere,
so much to do and a lot to kind of
look forward to. Is we're prepping for this great twenty
twenty sixth season. I know there's high hopes with a
lot of fans. We've got a taste of the playoffs
and feeling like getting back to the Convention Center is
a way to get back to normal here and have

(01:00:28):
Red Fest and have a great baseball season.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
Am I allowed to tell you who I will be
voting for.

Speaker 12 (01:00:33):
Well, you're getting a ballot in the mail, so up
to you. I would not divulge your vote if you
sent your ballot back in just but you're more than
welcome to announced who you're voting for.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Let's let well, I'm voting for Brandon Phillips. All right, Okay,
I mean, let.

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
Me write that down right now.

Speaker 13 (01:00:52):
Brandon.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
Okay.

Speaker 13 (01:00:53):
Check.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
I still wanted to send me a ballot because I
like having them, but I'm voting for Brandon Phillips. Literally,
the best defensive player that I've had, really sort of
you know. I remember when they acquired him, and there
was this breadth of fresh air with this guy who boy,
it felt like he was one of those dudes who
can build around. And God, here before the Vados and
the Bruces and all those guys, was here for the

(01:01:14):
twenty ten team. The twenty twelve team led off Game
two in twenty ten with a home run hit, the
home run that gave the Reds lead against the Giants,
Game one of twenty twelve. Bunch of gold gloves, silver sluggers.
So Brandon Phillips, and then for me, and I vetted
this out, I'm going Aaron Harang eight years here, you know,
really unfortunately never got the full taste of twenty ten

(01:01:36):
that he should have gotten. But there was a run
here in six and in seven where there were a
few pitchers in baseball as good as Aaron Harang pitched
here for a while. Those are my two guys.

Speaker 12 (01:01:48):
Great choices. There's several great choices on the ballots. I
can't argue with anything that you've said, and some of
the other candidates on here as well. And I think
that's what's great about this is you remembered so much
of these players. Everyone that's looking at the ballot remembers
some of these great stories. They were part of the
ten twenty and ten, twelve thirteen teams. That that was

(01:02:09):
fun time for being a Reds baseball fan.

Speaker 13 (01:02:11):
That was a.

Speaker 12 (01:02:11):
Really good time. And here we are already talking about
these guys making their way into the largest team Hall
of Fame and all of baseball, greatest museum that you'll
find for any team, and they have all been to Gallas.
So now you're into a time frame where the candidates
have all seen how the Reds handle Hall of Fame

(01:02:32):
inductions and it's something that other teams don't do.

Speaker 13 (01:02:35):
Quite as well.

Speaker 12 (01:02:35):
Some teams do it well, but not like the Reds
do with the induction festivities and of course the big
gal at the convention center. So we're excited to have
that Moniker, and I hope everybody will vote and vote.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Offen vote now. Redsmuseum dot Org runs through the twenty
seven so you have a couple of weeks eight quality candidates.
Two will get voted in and be a part of
the class of twenty twenty six. Next to April. Rick.
Always awesome to have you man, Thanks so much.

Speaker 12 (01:03:02):
Hey, thanks for having me. I'll look forward to talking
to you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Shame most definitely that's our guy, Rick Walls, Executive Director,
Red's Hall of Fame Museum, redsmuseum dot org. You can
vote for any of those guys and it would make sense.
Brandon Phillips was a no brainer. I think the moment
he retired, we all thought, well, first time on the ballot,
he's getting in. He'll get in. I cannot imagine a
world where he's not voted in in twenty twenty six.

(01:03:26):
The rest are a little tricky, you know. Aaron Harang,
unfortunately his best years didn't happen on teams that were great.
He was on the twenty ten team, my memory serves
me correct, didn't even make the postseason roster. Ended up
pitching for a number of years after he left Cincinnati.
But there were a couple of years the six team,
which was in first place by mid August, as late

(01:03:47):
as mid August, the one two was Harangu and Arroyo,
and that was that was not insignificant at that time.
So I'll go Aaron Harang, I'll go Brandon Phillips. You
could vote for whoever you choose at museum dot org.
Twenty nine away from five o'clock five one, three, seven,
four nine. Fifteen thirty is our phone number. We don't

(01:04:08):
have a ton of time for guests, but we do
have some time between now and six o'clock. On ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 6 (01:04:16):
You've been listening to football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from.

Speaker 8 (01:04:33):
The UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more options and
clinical trials for pancreatic cancer care at the UC Cancer Center.
Get a second opinion Fast call five one three five
eighty five UCCC on northbound seventy five, an accident now
cleared away after Town Street still got about a twenty
minute delay from Mitchell northbound on seventy one in Ohio

(01:04:56):
after two seventy five accident on the right shoulder and
Loveland deer a road accident at Camargo Road, and that
he's like with traffic.

Speaker 9 (01:05:05):
Ellis Taylor versus Tumlin. In the Steel City, the Bengals
look to toss the Steelers into the recycling bin. There's
a lot I can say about Pittsburgh, but none of
it can be set on the radio. The Bengals slug
it out with the Steelers. Sunday coverage begins at nine am,
stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio AC

(01:05:26):
or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
For service at Kelsey Chevalet, home of lifetime our train
protection and guarantee credit approval from their family to yours
for life, kelseyeshev dot com wor at Oaklygreens, Hanging out
here as we do every single Tuesday. The sports headlines
are basically me telling you which college basketball games are
being played tonight. The chances are, if you care about

(01:05:54):
these teams, you already know they're playing tonight. You see
will host Dayton third consecutive. The Bearcats and Flyers have
hooked up seven o'clock tonight on seven hundred WLW. Meanwhile,
a battle of two teams that offensively so far this
year have been awesome, Kentucky and Louisville hookup in Louisville
at eight tip off in the pregame show on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Also tonight, Ohio State battles app State and

(01:06:18):
Wright State takes on Toledo. Colubus Bluejackets, who are not
a college basketball team, on the road tonight against Seattle
Oakley Greens an awesome place to watch all those college
basketball games. Speaking of college basketball, what was that that
Xavier put on the floor last night? I think all

(01:06:39):
of us have expected, and look, it may have just
been a very good night for herb Sendex Santa Clara team,
which I think is pretty good, and just the worst
possible night for Richard Patino's team. In no set of
circumstances should you over react to what you see from
a college basketball team in November. But I think all

(01:07:04):
of us have expected Xavier to have a tough season
in the Big East. I think all of us have
expected Xavier to maybe lose a game or two end
quote by games. They were getting howsed last night. That game,
the final score, which they lost by nineteen at home

(01:07:24):
that game, that final score is not reflective of how
uncompetitive that game was. Quite frankly, I think the biggest
lead that the Broncos had was thirty four points. They
got the Musketeers twenty nine from Robbie Anderson from Roddy
Anderson and twenty one from Trey Carroll, and had those

(01:07:47):
two players not had great nights, just from a scoring perspective,
I don't know what that score looks like. That was.
That was beyond anything that I have imagined for this team. Look,
you're gonna take it with a grain of salt because
it's coming for me. But I certainly haven't found anybody
who thinks the Musketeers are gonna have a very good

(01:08:09):
team this year. Most observers would say they're really gonna
struggle to win more than maybe a handful of games
in the Big East. They were not awesome against Marist.
There were stretches against Lemoyne where they weren't very good
at all. Those two teams were trying to out airball
each other, and again, Santa Clair may end up being
pretty good. Went to a Herb Sendeck basketball camp when

(01:08:29):
I was in high school. For what it's worth, which
is nothing, what they did last night, the just sheer
offensive ineptitude is unlike anything I imagined we would see
from them this year. I'm sure they'll get better. Uh,

(01:08:51):
it's just year one. I understand all those things. I
think there's been a just a built in level of
pati that every Xavier fan has expected to have this year.
But if that is what it's going to look like
moving forward this season, even in just the short term,

(01:09:12):
oh boy. Eighty seven to sixty eight. The Musketeers followed
home to Santa Clara. Up next for XU they go
to Iowa. It is twenty eighteen away from five o'clock.
Sean Sayant is going to join us. In the five
o'clock hour. You'll hear from Scott Satderfield as well as
his team gets set to take on Arizona on Saturday

(01:09:33):
at noon. There is a game tonight between U See
and Dayton, and I think it was early last year
we anointed our guy, Drew wester Heidi as the official
Dayton basketball correspondent of The Moeger Show. And Drew is
here and he's going to talk about tonight's game with
us when we come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 6 (01:09:55):

Speaker 8 (01:10:01):
From the UC Health Traffic Center, you'll find more options
Cancer Center. Get a second opinion, fast call five one three,
five eighty five. UCCC still got an accident on the
Ohio side of northbound seventy one after two seventy five.
That one is off onto the right shoulder, and still

(01:10:22):
an accident on Coal Rain at Hoppole.

Speaker 7 (01:10:25):
Slow traffic as.

Speaker 8 (01:10:26):
Well eastbound two seventy five between Levinon and Loveland Madeira Road.
I'm at Ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
No area year College Basketball Night at the NBA. Since
you're asking the next host to Grizzlies. New York is
undefeated at home, looking to make it seventh straight at
the world's most famous arena. We're at Oakley Greens here
in Oakley, which is I guess the reason they call
it Oakley Greens and you can watch your favorite college
basketball team tonight. You can watch it probably your favorite

(01:10:52):
NBA game if if you ask uh so, check out
Oakley Greens. And by the way, make sure to make
plans for your holiday parties. Here at oens the outdoor
bar area, they'll heat it up for you and so
you're not gonna like freeze your face off, or you
could just come inside and enjoy the lights and the
Alias plays and it's a good time. Before we get
to our guy Drew by Pull. Questions on this show

(01:11:15):
come your way thanks to United Heartland Insurance. You know
it's that time of year you're thinking about insurance, life insurance,
health insurance, car insurance, you're doing open enrollment. Will do
this check out uhi ns dot com and see what
the folks that United Heartland Insurance can do for you
when it comes to helping you save money on your insurance.

(01:11:36):
Question is if the Bengals are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention,
should Joe Burrow playing games that have no postseason implications?
Seventy voting as early say no vote now at Moegar.
I believe the first time we did this, he called
us from Maui, where Dayton played in the Maui Invitational
last year. Should have won, it lost a heartbreaker of

(01:11:58):
Carolina one to State and then throttled Yukon and our
guy Drew wester Heidi, who was producing the show on site,
we said, well, let's call you from Maui because God
knows you won't have anything to do there when you're
not watching basketball, and join us to talk about my
alma mater of the Dayton Flyers. And we decided, because
you were so good, that you would be the official
Dayton Flyers correspondent of this show.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
So here you are here.

Speaker 14 (01:12:22):
I am glad to be here, glad to be back
on your program.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Are you going to the game tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
I am going to the game.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
Give me a lot of Flyers fans there tonight, I
think so.

Speaker 14 (01:12:29):
I don't think it'll be quite as the percentage dispersion
as it was when it was a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Neutral site game. No, but I do think you'll see a.

Speaker 14 (01:12:35):
Fair amount of Flyers in the crowd there tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
All right. I hate that these two teams play. This
is like, this is like watching parents fight. And I
trust me, I grew up watching my parents fight. So
I should be used to it. But this is there.
These are two things I love, and one of them
is going to be disappointed tonight. I hate it. I
wish they weren't playing, but here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
But here we are.

Speaker 14 (01:12:55):
It's the third year in a row. This is the
first game at the third Arena for Dayton in quite
a while. Probably got to be since the Bob the
Huggins days.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
Oh well, they played in the n that's twenty ten. Yep,
Dayton won that one.

Speaker 14 (01:13:09):
Yes so, and then the return trip to you to
Arena is next year.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
I can't wait for that. Can't be excited.

Speaker 14 (01:13:14):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I'm glad that, you know,
as fun as the games were Heritage Bank. I'm glad
that they are doing the home and home series. This
is a game that feels like it should be played
on you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
No, I'm glad they've extended the series. And while I
hate that these two schools play against each other for
emotional reasons, I wish there were more games like this.
I watched the game on Saturday, the Maryland Baltimore County game.
What I hated about it was how Dayton didn't defend
the three.

Speaker 14 (01:13:39):
Well, yeah, and that's that's been an issue through the
first two games. Evenkenisias, who they beat by forty, shot
at pretty well from three, and Dayton is giving up
forty from three to their opponents through two games. So
they've started to press more this year, which is a
bit new. That's something you haven't seen a lot out
of a Dayton you know, Anthony Grant led Dayton team.
So I think that's been part of what's led to

(01:14:01):
the inflated three point shooting numbers for the opponents. You know,
you break the press, then all of a sudden, you
got numbers, then you got a guy wide open. And
you know, I watched the games too, and I'll say this,
some of the shots that UNBC made were tough shots. Yeah,
like they were tough shots. So it is a it
is a point of concern for tonight especially. You know,
you see playing at home, comfy gym. It's not the

(01:14:22):
hockey arena. It's where these guys play all the time,
so that is a bit of a concern.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
I do think it's interesting, and you know, I wish
more teams pressed because it's a fun style of basketball
to watch. It will be the first time I think
that the Bearcats have gotten full court pressure defense. I
think Arkansas did it to them a little bit in
the second exhibition game they played. But when you're trying
to figure out how the pieces fit, what you don't
want as a team that could put really good ball

(01:14:47):
pressure on you on your end of the floor.

Speaker 14 (01:14:49):
Yeah, and I think Dayton that's gonna be a big
point of emphasis for them. You know, they forced thirty
four turnovers through two games, so seventeen a game. I
think that is an avenue for Dayton to win the
basketball game to is if they can get that turnover
number around that average of seventeen eighteen, nineteen twenty turnovers,
you know, he get some easy runouts, get some easy looks,
get some easy layups. I think that is kind of

(01:15:10):
the recipe for Dayton to win the basketball game because
I don't think they're going to be able to you know,
you know, go shot for shot with UC for lack
of a better term. So I think the full court
press being effective is going to go a long way
if Dayton wants to win.

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
There's one thing I think a Dayton Flyers should be
able to do. It's go shot for shot for somebody.

Speaker 14 (01:15:26):
That's true it depends on what kind of avenue we're
talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
I understand, but yeah, they were picked to finish third
in the eight ten. Did that feel about right to you?

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (01:15:34):
Probably. It's a big, you know, a big turnover on
the roster. You only have four guys returning from last
year's time. You have Jovon Bennett, who is the guy
he finally gets to beat.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
He did not play well against Cincinnati last.

Speaker 14 (01:15:46):
Year, did not play well against the Night las year,
but has played well in the first two games this season.
He is the one A guy, so it's interesting to
see how he is taken to that. Amiel la Toong
is back the Big seven Wine Frenchman, and then you know,
it's a lot of transfers to Shane Montgomery from Georgia,
Cayante Jones from cal State Northridge, and then you know
a host of guys on the bench, so a bit

(01:16:06):
of a new team. I think a lot of why
they were pick third is because of that unfamiliarity of
what it was going to look like. So I think
through the first week of the season, there's nothing that
has happened that has changed that I know. VCU lost
to a good Utah State team out out West. So
that doesn't really dissuade me in any way on where
Dayton lies in the A ten pack.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
Year and nine for Anthony Grant, and I feel like
the goodwill of twenty twenty has kind of has kind
of been played out, and so there's a lot of exasperation,
a lot of impatience if we get to selection Sunday,
because we talk about this all the time with Wes
Miller and Dayton doesn't pop up on the TV screen.
What does that mean for Anthony Grant.

Speaker 14 (01:16:46):
Well, it's it'll be interesting. I do agree that the
good will of twenty twenty is no longer there. However,
when he made the tournament and Deron Holmes his last year,
they have the big comeback on again of that. Yeah,
you know, they win the game pretty competitive against Arizona
despite falling. I think that bought him a little more time.
But now how last season ended. You have such a

(01:17:07):
great non conference, you know, start to the non con,
then you come to Cincinnati kind of get you know,
run out of the gym a little bit. They made
that game pretty competitive at the end, and then you
know the bad losses in a ten play and you
find yourself on the outside looking in come selecting Sunday. Yeah,
if Dayton is not in the tournament this year, it's
there are going to be conversations about what happens, whether

(01:17:29):
it's do they move on, does anythingy Grant retire? His
name has been thrown in retirement rumors for the past
several years. So you know, where there's smoke, there's fire
when it comes to that. But you know, if Grant
wants to feel secure, getting into the dance would go
a long long way.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
Just too many of those A ten losses, especially on
the road, which I think, unfortunately, with the exception of
a few years under Archie, has been a hallmark at
the program since I was a student at UDI, and
that was a long damn time ago.

Speaker 14 (01:17:57):
Yes, uh, you know losses to you know Lisu, Yeah,
or you know a non good George Mason.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Team several years in the past.

Speaker 14 (01:18:05):
Yeah, they just run and we call them land mines
and they just seem to trip over a land mine
or two that puts them behind the eight ball when
it comes to selection Sunday. And even the year they
did make the tournament, they had a couple of those
stumbling blocks and they were you know that they got in.
But yeah, so it'll be interesting to see what happens
with Dayton this year. I've liked how they've looked. I

(01:18:27):
honestly didn't think they played particularly bad against UNBC, but
obviously on the defensive end could have been a lot better.
The spread the night, I believe it's six and a half.
You see is favored by six and a half. That
feels like a pretty good number there. So, yeah, it
should be a good game and we'll see how it goes.
It feels like two teams still trying to figure out
what this is all gonna look like.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
Yeah, there is a part of me that loves the
fact that we have games that matter this early in
the season, but the games aren't as good as they
would be if they were played a month later. Right,
and then we talk about this all the time with
the Skyline Chili Crossdown shootout, Like you know, obviously Cincinnati
and Daton are not gonna play in January. I wish
they would play closer to Christmas, which they did last year.
But I wish they would play closer to Christmas, especially

(01:19:09):
in this era where coaches are trying to find out
on the fly what they have.

Speaker 14 (01:19:13):
But here for sure, and it's it's Dayton's first big
test of the non conference, in which it's a pretty
loaded non conference schedule for Daton this year. They play
U see they played Georgetown in Orlando, and then they
play either the winner or loser of BYU in Miami.
They play Virginia and Charlotte. They get Florida State at
the Arena, and then they go to Marquette next week.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
Awesome, it did a good job as always.

Speaker 14 (01:19:34):
Thank you, thank you for having me on your program.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
Yeah, of course, where'd you get that hat? To get that?

Speaker 14 (01:19:38):
In the threst store, buddy of mine got this for me.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
That hat looked out dated when I was a freshman
and that was thirty years ago.

Speaker 14 (01:19:44):
Oh well, that's love it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
I love it.

Speaker 14 (01:19:45):
The light blue, the chapel blue is back in Thank you.
I say, you're a hat kind of swer man. You're
a hat man, so you can appreciate.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Fine. I haven't found a good Dayton hat in a while,
and we'll have.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
To fix that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
I'm still looking for one.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
We'll have to fix that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
It is four minutes away from five o'clock. We're at
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Now your chance to win one thousand dollars. Enter this
nationwide keyword on our website.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Deposit. That's deposit.

Speaker 6 (01:20:13):
Enter it now the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 13 (01:20:21):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (01:20:22):
It's five Day five ESPN fifteen thirty. Moleg you're broadcasting
today from Oakley Greens. It is the bud Light five
o'clock Happy Iem here at Oakley Greens. You know what
they will sell you at Oakley Greens, Hey, refreshing ice
called bud Light. Easy to drink, easy to enjoy. We

(01:20:44):
love the folks here at Oakley Greens for having us.
Great plays for your holiday parties, great plays to watch
college basketball, the holiday decor here. You know, we were
here last Tuesday and we watched like this army of dudes.
I need to hire these guys to do my Christmas decks.
My Christmas decorations are not as elaborate, but I would
still like to hire these dudes to do them. And

(01:21:06):
their work is paid off. Is it is beautiful here,
great for holiday parties. We do have a Darth Vader
with a lightsaber that's like a candy cane, which I
think that would soften the blow if he cut off
your hand. And we've got a Stormtrooper, and I think
there's a Chewbacca over there. When you think holiday season,

(01:21:27):
you think Chewbacca. So you can visit those characters. I
mean you could visit them. They're not like walking around
their statues mannequins, but they're here at Oakley Greens and
they are The Stormtrooper has a Santa Claus add on,
Chewbacca has a Santa Claus add on. So you could
see them and celebrate the holidays with these iconic science
fiction film characters here at Oakley Greens. Awesome place to

(01:21:50):
watch college basketball as well, and got a couple of
games that I U see versus Dayton, Kentucky and Louisville.
More on them coming up here in just a bit.
Really good stuff from Paul Dayner Junior in the first
hour of the show. And I will be the first
to admit it's really hard to be optimistic about the Bengals.
They've lost six out of seven. The defense is maybe

(01:22:12):
the worst in the history of the sport. The math
for them to make the postseason as a non division
winner is really hard. The math for them to win
the division is certainly not easy. I think before you
talk about any of those things, put a defense on
the field that can get a stop in a key situation,

(01:22:34):
which they haven't done since Week one. They have in
front of them defensively, a remarkable undertaking this offseason. There's
basically one player to build around, and it's DJ Turner.
Daner and I talked about this in the first hour
of the show. Something the Bengals haven't been good at

(01:22:55):
is getting out in front of the market and signing
players long term before they could put a gun to
your header before the market changes again. They screwed this
up with Jamar Chase. They screwed this up with t Higgins,
They screwed this up with Trey Hendrickson. How about not
screwed up with Dj Turner. And even if he is

(01:23:15):
not like a true genuine number one corner, which I think,
frankly to a degree is a little bit of an
outdated concept because of how pro offenses work nowadays. That's
a building block. That is a building block, that is
a guy you can build around, do it long term.
Beyond that, what do you got Trey Hendrickson is hurt?
Trey Hendrickson's gonna be thirty one by the end of

(01:23:36):
the season. Trey Hendrickson's gonna cost a lot of money. Yes,
there are arguments you can make in favor of keeping
it here on a franchise tag, but they need a
lot of guys. They need a lot of NFL caliber players.
Is that money you would give to Trey by tagging
him better spent on him or on a number of
places on the roster. Regardless, this defense isn't gonna go

(01:24:00):
from what it is right now, which again is not
just worse than the league, according to many metrics, is
the worst in decades. You're not gonna go from that
to a championship caliber defense overnight, probably not gonna do
it in one offseason. So you do need things that
hasten the process, that speed up the process. That's why

(01:24:22):
we talked about trading Trey Hendrickson. Look, if I can
get a draft pick for him, and reportedly they couldn't
get more than a four. If they can get a
draft pick for him, do it, because that's another piece
you could use to fix your defense. But I do
think there's something important happening right now, and we'll see
if we feel the same way in two months. And

(01:24:42):
it's also something that a lot of folks when you
say this, or if you repeat this to somebody, they're
gonna laugh at you. It feels like the offensive line
is trending in the right direction now. The way Joe
Flacco plays, I think has something to do with that.
But they have played pretty well. They've done a good
job of keeping them up right. They've been better in

(01:25:05):
terms of setting up the run game, and that's not insignificant.
You're seeing a Marius Mims, I think, turn into a
pretty good NFL right tackle, and you've seen some encouraging
things I think from Jalen Rivers, and there's a lot
to like about Dylan Fairchild. And I think it's you know,
completely reasonable to wonder, like, well, when is too long

(01:25:27):
going to be long in the tooth for Orlando Brown,
there have been moments this year where he's looked old,
say maybe the similar the same thing about Ted Carris.
But I think this is important and regardless of what
happens between now and the end of the season, the
way to hasten what I think we would all acknowledge
is going to be a very very major undertaking on defense.

(01:25:51):
Is to not need as much work to do on
your offense. Now we know where they don't need work, right,
They're pretty good at quarterback, They're pretty good at the
number of one and two wide receiver spots. Completely fair
to wonder who the number three guy next year is
gonna be. Feel like they'll figure things out at tight
end they typically do. I think everybody likes Chase Brown.

(01:26:11):
I think everybody likes the current composition of the running
back room, and if they add to it, that's not
gonna cost a lot. What you don't want to have.
If you have all of these other problems over here
are other problems you have to fix over here. Over here.
The second over here is an offensive line that, man,

(01:26:32):
it would be awesome. We might not be there yet,
but it would be awesome if by the end of
this season you could go you know what, at least
in terms of starters, they're set on the O line.
You can never have enough, and I'm sure we're gonna
be talking about O line depth, especially because they'll have

(01:26:52):
two older players playing left tackle and center. If they
do move forward with the same bunch and Jalen Rivers
needs to continue to get and you need to see
even more from Dylan Fairchild and a Marius MIM's growth
can't be stunted. But I think this is one of
the most important developments worth paying attention to between now
and the end of the season. Yes, can they figure

(01:27:13):
out a way to play themselves back into the postseason race? Yes?
Is there anybody else on this defense that's worth moving
forward with? Is there any reason to stop talking about
moving on from Zach Taylor al Golden? But regardless of
who the coach is, regardless of who the defensive coordinator isn't, frankly,
regardless of who the the GM or de facto GM

(01:27:37):
next year is, they have so much damn work to
do on defense, so much rebuilding to start this offseason,
that the way to hasten that rebuild is to be
able to devote nearly every conceivable resource to the defensive
side of the ball. That is so much easier to

(01:28:00):
do if you look at the offensive line at the
end of this season and feel pretty good about where
it is, and feel pretty good about moving forward with
those five guys, and again, they'll look for I hope
they look for depth pieces. And this is something that
we might not say after week eighteen, but after week ten,

(01:28:21):
if and again, it's a year where Joe Burrow got
her playing behind an offensive line. It's a year where
they've lost six out of seven games to put themselves
in a three and six hole. But along with Joe
Flacco being a great story and playing, you know, in
some respects the best ball of his career, and on
top of the accomplishments of the two main wide receivers,

(01:28:44):
one thing that has happened over the last couple of
weeks is the offensive line has demonstrated a pretty good
level of competence of proficiency. And there's three rookies on
that unit right now. You have to feel okay about that.
You have to feel okay at least about the current
trajectory of that unit. And if we do by the

(01:29:06):
end of the season, and if that continues through the
rest of the year, then maybe it makes slightly easier
the already significant undertaking they have on their hands with
their historically bad defense. Excuse me, thirteen minutes after five

(01:29:26):
o'clock that Joe Burrow question. Dana Or and I talked
about it in the first hour of the show. Look,
if the Bengals are mathematically alive I think we would
all expect Joe Burrow to play. The Bengals will be
mathematically alive on Thanksgiving Night, regardless of what happens against
Pittsburgh and regardless of what happens against New England. And

(01:29:49):
so we're gonna expect Joe Burrow to play on Thanksgiving
Night if he wants to, and if he physically is
where he wants to be and where I believe he
thinks he will be. I don't expect them to put
them on the shelf at three and six or three
and eight. I do think the conversation would be fascinating
if they got to a point where mathematically it's not possible,

(01:30:14):
like it sounds neat right, Like you want guys, Paul
and I were talking about this too in the first hour.
You want guys who set a certain tone. You want
guys who want to play. You want guys who want
to lead by example, And the best way to do
that is by going out and playing. No matter what.
That sounds great as the cart is driving him off

(01:30:34):
the field in a game that means nothing, is anybody
gonna want to hear? Yeah, But they want to send
a message that they're not gonna quit and they want
their franchise to be around. You know what, you try
to win no matter what the players play, no matter what.
I hope we're not there. I mean, ideally the Bengals

(01:30:57):
going to run. I don't know how that happens with
the current composition of the defense. I do think they're
gonna beat the Steelers on Sunday. But if we're there again,
like in no game last year where the Bengals mathematically eliminated,
they played seventeen games where they at least had a
chance when they took the field of making the postseason.
As long as there's a chance, as microscopic as it

(01:31:20):
may be, go put them out there in the absence
of that mathematical elimination. The number one objective is to
protect the investment. The way to protect the investment is
you put a ball cap in a headset on them
in games that don't count. Sixteen after five o'clock. Can
the Reds rebrand? Yes this winter? That plus Sean sayat

(01:31:43):
stats in Scheme Podcast and more, Scott Sadafield as well
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 6 (01:31:49):

Speaker 7 (01:31:54):

Speaker 8 (01:31:58):
Fast Call five one three five eighty five UCCC southbound
seventy five between Paddock Road and Town Street. There's an accident.
Seeing a little bit of slow traffic there as well.
Also on southbound seventy five. A disabled vehicle on the

(01:32:19):
off ramp to westbound seventy four that's on the right shoulder.
A rapid runpike accident near Pedretti Avenue, and that he
sounded like with traffic.

Speaker 11 (01:32:28):
This report is sponsored by Stabus.

Speaker 6 (01:32:30):
Football William the Natti, brought to you in part by
Postman Law and Vice. Skyline Chilly on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:32:43):
Twenty four for four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. We'ord
Oakly Greens where by the way, when we come to
Oakley Greens, we bring with us our QR code. We
take this with us wherever we go for the SIMS
Furniture Ultimate Fan Cave Giveaway. If you have not seen this,
I don't know what you've been doing. First of all,

(01:33:04):
you can go to any one of the five Cincinnati
area SIMS Furniture stores and if you go in there,
you'll see a QR code and we're giving away this
is the coolest prize ever. We're giving away a power recliner.
We're giving away a fifty five inch television, a TV
console with an electric fireplace that'll like heat up your
entire house. We're giving away an end table with built

(01:33:26):
in speakers. We're giving away an area rug. All this
stuff in one prize package. You go to two places.
You got to SIMS Furniture, any one of the five
area SIMS Furniture stores and sign up or wherever we're out,
show up. We'll give you the QR code, you can
scan and you are good to go. Will you announce
the winner next month. So check it out. It's the

(01:33:48):
ultimate fan cave giveaway. I've got more details on my
social media at Moegger Scott Saderfield In just a few minutes.
As we look ahead to Saturday, Cincinnati versus Arizona and
our guy Sean Sayad, I want to talk with him
about the Steelers, who look, there is the Steelers brand
and then there's how they have played this year and

(01:34:09):
granted they have fewer problems than the Bengals do. But
the Steelers have problems. Hey, one of them is their defense,
which we saw Joe Flacco kind of expose a few
weeks ago on Thursday Night Football. Can it continue on Sunday?
Sean's going to talk about that with us in just
a bit. A Jeff Passon of ESPN dot com has

(01:34:31):
listed the perfect offseason moves for twenty one different teams.
For the Cincinnati Reds, he has the perfect off season
move being signed free agent DH Kyle Schwarber. I'll read
what he wrote here. I'll give away the man's content.
I shouldn't do that, but I will, he writes. Currently,

(01:34:53):
the Reds are carrying or project a payroll of around
seventy five million dollars. They have run year end payrolls
as high as one hundred and thirty five million. Even
if Cincinnati, as indicated it doesn't plan to increase payroll
much over one hundred and sixteen million this year, there
is room for a big swing. And the fact that
the Reds have a glaring need for offense, and that
the best available free agent hitter grew up in the

(01:35:13):
outskirts of the city is screaming for the Reds to
throw caution to the win and supercharge a team with
plenty of potential to contend. Will they Probably not? It's
the Reds, but it's too obvious not to try to
speak it in new existence sign free agent Kyle Schwarber.
So the key there is probably not want to change

(01:35:35):
our brand, make it? Probably. I do think it's going
to be interesting to see what the market is for him,
because I think there are gonna be a lot of
teams and the potential lockout could have something to say
about this. I wonder how many teams will go pass
on his asking price because of his age thirty two
right now, and so maybe that depresses the market. I

(01:35:58):
know the mere mention of this will make will go.
Reds aren't going to do this. Jeff does that in
his own piece. Here's my question, and it hasn't been
answered yet. If not Kyle Schwarber, then who is it now?
Many are going to suggest, well, trade Hunter Green. Charlie

(01:36:18):
Goldsmith's newsletter, which is a must writing from the GM meetings,
writes about the fact that that talk is overblown and
even Terry Francona to a degree is from cold water
over the suggestion that they move on from a Hunter
Green and look, I get it, the dude pitched poorly
in the postseason. He is always hurt. They do have

(01:36:40):
a nice collection of starting pitchers. I think it's absurd
to suggest they have this dramatic surplus. Can never have enough, right,
So you don't want to trade from the surplus or
collection of starting pitchers, but you don't want to pay
for Kyle Schwarber. Cool, then what who do you got

(01:37:01):
next year that you go, you know what, that guy
can hit thirty five bombs for us, which, by the way,
if Kyle Schwarber hit thirty five bombs, that would be
twenty one fewer than he hit this past season. So
like it's easy to snicker, I snickers, it's easy to
go it's the Reds. They're not gonna do that. Until
they do do something like that, you assume they won't.

(01:37:21):
But if we're not going to advance the conversation about
why they actually should go after Kyle Schwarber because we
know they won't, then tell me who they should. Who's
the best cheaper alternative to Kyle Schwarber. I've asked that
question a lot, and I've gotten some answers. None of
them really moved the meter for me. Twenty nine minutes

(01:37:41):
after five o'clock. We thank the folks at Oakley Greens
for having us. You'll hear Scott's Haderfield next on ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:37:48):
You've been listening to football in the NATI, brought to
you by Cincinnati Tax Resolution powered by Tape Sheldon on
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home the Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.

Speaker 8 (01:38:07):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more options
Cancer Center. Get a second opinion Fast call five one
three five eighty five UCCC. On southbound seventy five after
Paddock Road, there's an accident that's off on the right shoulder.
Police are there on scene as well. Northbound seventy five.

(01:38:28):
Another accident after Norwood Lateral and on Springdale Road. An
accident at Niagara Street. I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 9 (01:38:37):
This report is Taylor versus Tumlin. In the Steel City.
The Bengals look to toss the Steelers into the recycling bin.
There's a lot I can say about Pittsburgh, but none
of it can be selling a radio. The Bengals slug
it out with the Steelers. Sunday coverage begins at nine am.
Stream for free on the new and improved iHeart Radio

(01:38:59):
app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
We're at Oakley Greens and a great place to watch
the game tonight's you see in Dayton or the game
tonight Kentucky and Louisville, or the Bengals game on Sunday
one o'clock. Awesome for your watch parties. Full college football slate.
You could watch UC in Arizona at noon on Saturday
see if the Bearcats can bounce back after losing to
Utah last week. Speaking of which, Scott Saderfield talked with

(01:39:31):
the media today for the first time since that lost
to the Utes. Cincinnati and Arizona at home. Here is
the head coach talking about the Bearcats coming off the
bye week.

Speaker 11 (01:39:41):
I thought we had a great boile week.

Speaker 15 (01:39:43):
I mean, the big thing about last week was, you know,
really a reset for us and recover mentally and physically.

Speaker 11 (01:39:50):
And I thought our guys did that.

Speaker 15 (01:39:51):
We you know, we cut back on practice last week
and allowed them some time to heal up and then
and also at the same time worked on some lot
of young guys and let them play.

Speaker 11 (01:40:01):
And I thought we had a great time with that.
That was fun.

Speaker 15 (01:40:03):
And so it's a good week, all the while knowing
that we had Arizona coming up and and then obviously
breaking them down, then had an opportunity to watch them
play Saturday and and get ready for this team, a
really good football team. Coach Brent has done a great
job there this year. I think obviously a couple of
things stand out by them. But I think, first off, defensively,

(01:40:25):
new defensive cordator this year, and they've done it. They've
done an outstanding job, you know, mixing up fronts, coverages.
The guys are playing hard, they're playing physical, creating a
lot of turnovers.

Speaker 4 (01:40:36):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:40:37):
I think when I first front turned on the film,
that was probably one thing that stood out. And everybody
talks about Fafeeded he's a great quarterback, has done it.
I think he started thirty one game, so he's done
it for a long period of time. And incredible player.
Puts pressure on the defense, you know, some really good
wide outs, good running game, as well. I think maybe
the running game gets overshadowed by by the passing game.

(01:40:58):
But I mean they finished the game offgainst Kansas by
running the football in the last drive.

Speaker 11 (01:41:02):
So a really good football team.

Speaker 15 (01:41:04):
We're excited about, you know, the opportunity that you're sitting
here playing in the middle of November, you know, tied
for first place in the Big twelve, and and so
we're excited about that opportunity because all our goals are
still sit in front of us. You know, obviously, got
to have a great week of practice this week, and
our preparation will determine how we go out and play
on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:41:22):
It's an interesting Arizona team that if you look at
them statistically, there are not a ton of weaknesses. Nearly
beat BYU. Sitting at six and three, they've won two games.
Scott side of Field was aske today that the Wildcats
are underrated.

Speaker 15 (01:41:37):
Absolutely they sit they really I mean, I know people
say this, but they easily can see be here at
eight to one right now. I mean they're up ten
against BYU with four minutes to go in the game,
and had that game won quite honestly, as I mean,
not obviously by you did a great job pulling it out.
But if one little thing goes, Arizona's winning that game.

(01:41:58):
And then also I thought they played great again Houston.
You know, Houston ends up, you know, kicking a last
second field goal to beat him, you know. So you
can't get any tighter or closer than that. And to
sitting there being eight and one right now. The only
game that they really wasn't in was the Iowa State game,
you know, and that was an incredible crowd at Iowa
State white Out. I mean, it was an unbelievable atmosphere
for Iowa State. So yeah, I think they are underrated

(01:42:21):
at six and three. I mean I got hen they
got an outstanding football team. They got they have team speed,
they can run, they're physical, they have good plans in
all three phases, you know.

Speaker 11 (01:42:31):
So that's the recipe for success.

Speaker 4 (01:42:34):
Now. One of the themes that we have talked a lot
about really all season long, and frankly to a degree
last year, is how Joe Royer seems to disappear from
this offense. And I'm not sure I put a lot
of that on Joe Royer, NFL caliber tight end, a
dude that a lot of like draft observers say could
go in the first two days of the NFL Draft,

(01:42:54):
and yet one catch last week, one catch the week before.
It certainly seems it's like for a quarterback that, especially
against Utah, could have used some high, high percentage completions.
Joe Royer is supposed to give you an opportunity for
high percentage completions, and yet it was kind of absent
from the offense against the Utes. And so here is
Scott Saddlefield asking a question about getting the ball to

(01:43:17):
Joe Royer.

Speaker 15 (01:43:18):
There's been times this year where we've tried to, you know,
call Joe's number, and you're looking at their two dudes
on him.

Speaker 11 (01:43:22):
You know, it's hard to get the ball to him.

Speaker 15 (01:43:24):
I think the other side of that is, like you mentioned,
I mean, we do have some guys on the outside
that we feel like can win, and they have made
good plays for us this year and spreading the ball out.
If you look, if you look at our you know,
distribution of the balls to the to the White House.

Speaker 11 (01:43:38):
I mean, it's pretty even.

Speaker 15 (01:43:39):
I mean, you know, and then you get you put
Joe in there, you put some running backs in there,
and you obviously want to run the football so I
feel like our balance as far as that has been
really good this year because you don't, you know, you're
not necessarily can just to try to defend one guy.
You try to fend this one guy, then we're gonna
beat you with some other guys. And I think that's
probably the product is why he didn't have as much production.

Speaker 4 (01:43:58):
There you go a Scott Sadifield earlier today. By the way,
the Scott Saderfield Radio Show, which is typically on Tuesday nights,
moves to tomorrow because of the UC basketball game Cincinnati
taking on Dayton. When do we come back? Our guy
Sean Saya the Stats and Scheme newsletter on the Bengals,
the Steelers, and the Ravens. Next on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 6 (01:44:18):
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After Norwood Lateral.

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Speaker 6 (01:44:55):
This report is sponsored Batty's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
It's Tuesday. By the way, we're at Oakley Greens. It's Tuesday,
which means we talk with our guys. Sean Sayad. Sean
is one of the authors, along with Ted Smith, of
the Stats and Scheme newsletter. He's with sumer sports dot com.
He's here to make us smarter. He's at least here
to answer my same questions about the Bengals who did
not lose this weekend. Sean, what's going on?

Speaker 16 (01:45:22):
Well, it was a great week to not have a
loss on the schedule. I didn't have to go through
any Bengals film today.

Speaker 5 (01:45:27):
You know, of course you over review some things to
looking ahead to the next week, but next to be
able to watch another.

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
People this week, it was it was very relaxing. It
was very stress free. Before we do schematic stuff, weigh
in on the big topic of conversation here, which is
Joe Burrow is back practicing and he's ramping up. I
think they want to have him out there on Thanksgiving
Night against Baltimore, which makes a lot of sense, and
maybe the Bengals win the next two games and at

(01:45:54):
that point it's game on. There are many folks who
feel like that is not likely. If the Bengals are
playing for nothing, would you have Joe Burrow out there?

Speaker 5 (01:46:03):
This is a tough one, right because playing for nothing
is also I think a little subjective. Of course, it's
like playing for nothing in terms of the playoffs. Like
that I think does become kind of clear at the
end of the season. I think when you have the
most competitive players across the world playing this sport, like
I think a guy like Jamar Chase and you hear
from Justin Jefferson last year, playing through injuries like these

(01:46:24):
guys when.

Speaker 16 (01:46:24):
They retire, these numbers do matter to them, like they the.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
Cumulative effect of all these seasons, all this consistency does matter.
At the same time, it is a coaches and a
like a higher level of a team's job to protect
a player from themselves. I think there can be some
positive I feel like on this stuff, I lean pretty
conservative because Burrow is your franchise guy. I do think
there is value though still in you know, just you're

(01:46:47):
getting game reps like you're you're moving things in the
right direction overall. So would I like to be having
him play late in the fourth quarter of games that
you know.

Speaker 16 (01:46:56):
You're up by two scores.

Speaker 5 (01:46:57):
Probably not, But I wanted to be super mad at
him coming back even if the team is sort of
just out of everything, because I mean, we've talked earlier
this season about you know, Jamar Chase, he gets a
little bit anxious kind of in the offense.

Speaker 16 (01:47:09):
So you want to just feel, Okay, we are still
moving in the.

Speaker 5 (01:47:11):
Right direction, like we still need to be an attractive
play for people to come play next year.

Speaker 4 (01:47:15):
There's something to me. And look, I'm all for protecting
the investment, but we've talked a lot. You and I
have talked a lot about meshing how Joe Burrow wants
to play with what they've done with Joe Flacco running
the football and him playing under center. At the very least,
is there is there a school of thought that says,
even if he doesn't play every snap of every quote

(01:47:35):
meaningless game, that it makes sense for him to get
used to running the offense differently in games that are
actual games and not preseason games. If that ultimately is
what they decide to do.

Speaker 5 (01:47:47):
So I'm not sure how much you want to just
like get Joe like take the Joe Burrow out Joe
Burrow right, like their situations for Flaccos so far this
year where that ball is coming out real quick.

Speaker 16 (01:47:57):
It makes the offensive line a lot of their life
a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:48:00):
Ye, would you know maybe like to see a little
bit of those kind of quick throws from Burrow overall
as well?

Speaker 16 (01:48:05):
And yes, as you mentioned you you mentioned some of
that run game.

Speaker 5 (01:48:08):
Success with him as well, So yes, I absolutely think
there's value in I mean, every offensive play caller and
quarterbacks are constantly learning from each other with every single
play call, with every single game. So I do or
I think about it leftl as like, Okay, well you
need to put Joe Burrow inside of the Joe Blackow
offense because there are times when it's just hey, you
don't throw the ball to that really good receiver outside

(01:48:29):
and it's working for Flaco and it does also for Burrow.

Speaker 16 (01:48:32):
So I do like the idea of hey, we're gonna
like get into.

Speaker 5 (01:48:35):
D snaps where we still need to like build a
more consistent offense where you're able to have things where
the past game can be married to the run game
in different ways and affect defenses that way.

Speaker 4 (01:48:45):
Let's talk about the Steelers, who the Bengals play on Sunday.
They haven't been good, and they were very good offensively
against the Bengals. They did win that game against Indianapolis,
they were the opposite of good. I think in nearly
every phase against the Chargers the other night start with
their defense. So's that's what you think of first when
you think of the Steelers. They've remade the secondary, they

(01:49:05):
had Jalen Ramsey playing safety the other night, and yet
it doesn't feel like a Steelers defense. Why is that?

Speaker 5 (01:49:12):
I mean, I think there is still just too much
of an elements overall where I.

Speaker 16 (01:49:16):
Guess sometimes it is a Steelers defense.

Speaker 5 (01:49:18):
Although I will say yes, with the adjustments on the
back and they have changed things up just a little
bit more. But I think offenses understand, hey, we can
run away from TJ.

Speaker 4 (01:49:26):
Watts.

Speaker 5 (01:49:26):
He's going to be in a static alignment sort of
over and over again. And you know, when the offensive
side of the ball is at flat, it really puts
the defense in sort of tough situations over and over.
So I just feel like over the years, like when
I watch Okay, this is a different team still, this.

Speaker 16 (01:49:40):
Is what looks different or this is what the what
the team is trying.

Speaker 5 (01:49:44):
You have seen it a little bit from the Steelers
over the last two weeks, but eventually injuries, just attrition overall,
some struggles on the outside, like those things just catch
up to you in a league that it's just shifting
too fast. And it feels like, even with the Steelers
still finding ways to win games, it feels like.

Speaker 16 (01:49:59):
It's kind of shifting past this team a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:50:02):
Sean Side is with us, by the way. You follow
him on x at Science Schemes, one of the authors
of these stats and scheme newsletter available now at sumer
sports dot com. I think the the immediate takeaway that
a lot of folks had from watching Pittsburgh on Sunday is, well,
Aaron Rodgers just looks really, really old. Is that the
explanation for some of their offensive lowes or does it

(01:50:22):
go into scheme addicts?

Speaker 5 (01:50:24):
You know, yeah, I think it's I guess could be
tied a little bit together. I'm not sure it's just
because he's old, but this offense at this point in
time is a quick time to throw offense.

Speaker 16 (01:50:35):
It's a low average depth of target offense.

Speaker 5 (01:50:37):
So the quarterback does not want to hang out there
very very long. He wants to get the ball out quick.
He wants to throw it short. That is something that
defenses no going into this like this game over and
over again, and yeah, I guess it's at Bengals. Of course,
on that and that Thursday night game, you get a
bunch of those downfill passes. But on the even this
is not an explosive offense. And then when you get

(01:50:58):
Rogerstone to intercept against the Chargers just at through times
like that, that is a really real struggle.

Speaker 16 (01:51:03):
So this offense is.

Speaker 5 (01:51:06):
Kind of stuck in neutral, if not reverse at a
lot of times. It feels like even when hey, you've
got a bunch of high ends and you try and
get heavy on the field, but it feels like as
long as you're you know, forcing in to keep on
throwing to a short quick passes, or you're able to
sit on one, maybe you can kind of steal one
and take it the other way. It's mean, I said
the last time they played. It's just not an offense
that strikes fear in my heart now. Of course, yes,

(01:51:28):
he score a bunch of points against the Banals defense,
but I mean, I'm hoping that this is a good
chance for them to be able to come back from
that game.

Speaker 4 (01:51:35):
We started the conversation by talking about Joe Burrow. He
is targeting the things giving day game, the first one
against Baltimore. They played them twice within a couple of weeks.
The Ravens have gone from one in five to four
and five and their defensive transformation has been stark. Better
health is obviously a reason, but why are the Ravens
suddenly good on defense?

Speaker 5 (01:51:56):
Biggest reason is you're seeing Kyle Almilton not in that
safety role playing all the way back. He is playing
in that nickel spot pretty much like a linebacker. Right
at the line of scrimmage. You will literally see him walk.

Speaker 16 (01:52:06):
Up as if he is a defensive end.

Speaker 5 (01:52:08):
And that is really really helping them in terms of
the run game because he's beating guys that is supposed
to be blocking him. And I think that bringing in
a Loie Gillman, who is the safety of played with
the Chargers before in a similar system that the Ravens use,
you're just able to really take advantage of a weapon.
So I really enjoy seeing that from Baltimore. They have to,
I think be the favorite to win that division. I

(01:52:28):
think they probably should have been for like two three
weeks just seeing.

Speaker 16 (01:52:32):
Kind of how things were going.

Speaker 5 (01:52:33):
And then, of course, you know on offense you get
you still have Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 4 (01:52:36):
There. Let's talk about the stats and scheme newsletter shows
up in my inbox multiple times per week. I get
smarter when I read it. For folks who haven't signed
up yet, First of all, what are you waiting for
a second? What will they get?

Speaker 5 (01:52:49):
The advanced game boxes where it's broken down by every
single thing that I think, like a head coach could
really use, whether it's how would this offense do against
this defense? And zone coverage, how do they do it
against them? And coverage all these specific sort of actionable
items where maybe you see a mismatch sort of here
and there for every game before the weekend starts, and
then on Monday morning you get a review kind of

(01:53:10):
similarly like if you did not watch any of the
other games, I think you could look at this and
feel like you learned something about all the massets of
the weekend.

Speaker 4 (01:53:17):
All right, let's talk about sumer brain as well, I
wanted to punch in there on Sunday. How does a
team at home get eight fall starts penalties? Beyond that,
what can you ask sumer Brain at summer sports dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:53:27):
Well, well, I'm not sure you can ask about all
those operational issues, but you can track over the last
two years, for example, what's the team that had the
most fall starts in an individual game. So we have
all of our data pumped in there. We just want
you to be able to type in how you would
speak in English and your question and kind of be
able to pull it.

Speaker 13 (01:53:41):
So do we have data for every single data point
on Earth?

Speaker 5 (01:53:44):
No, but if it helped me save a lot of time,
you type in a right, well, how do the Bengals
do in the first game against.

Speaker 16 (01:53:50):
The Steelers on third downs?

Speaker 5 (01:53:52):
You're able to just type it in, pull it up
real quick, save yourself some time.

Speaker 16 (01:53:55):
Don't subscribe to a bunch of services, get some better
and so going forward.

Speaker 4 (01:53:58):
It is a terrific resource, so is Sean sayed, We'll
talk to you next week. Man, thanks so much, thanks
so much.

Speaker 5 (01:54:03):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 12 (01:54:04):
All.

Speaker 4 (01:54:04):
Right, there you go. That's our guy, Sean sayad subscribe
to the newsletter, the Stats and Scheme newsletter at Summer
Sports dot com. We are done shows over, Gotta go.
Make sure to stick around for UK basketball Kentucky and
Louisville tonight at six thirty. Tip off at eight o'clock
from Louisville Live on ESPN fifteen thirty. We'll talk about
that game, Cincinnati versus Dayton, and so much more tomorrow

(01:54:25):
starting at three o five. Don't forget We're back at
Oakley Greens next Tuesday. We hope to see it then.
Thanks to Drew Wester Heidi for producing on site and
vacation bound Tarren Bland for producing back in Kenwood. I
return tomorrow at three o five. Have a great night.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station, the Bengals.

Speaker 7 (01:54:49):
Welcome to New England. Patriots j Fake

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