1/13/26 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

Mo reacts to Mike Tomlin stepping down as Head Coach of the Steelers. Also Paul Dehner Jr joins Mo as he does every Tuesday to talk Bengals and so much more!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteenth third.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Well you sure have. What's up?

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Good afternoon, I'm Legger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks
for listening. Hopefully you're having an unbelievable Tuesday. Paul Danner
Juniors here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Covering the Bengals, fighting about the Bengals, podcasting about the Bengals,
and tweeting about the Bengals at Paul Danner Junior, there's
a few things to discuss.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are we doing doing good? How are you good?

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Man?

Speaker 6 (00:32):
I always like it when we record something Tuesday morning
on the podcast and it's already old news by the
time I reach you here at three o'clock.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, we're talking about Mike Tomlin, talking about Mike Tomlin
out done, stepping down in Pittsburgh with time left on
his contract.

Speaker 6 (00:48):
One man remains the dean of AFC North coaches, I
mean almost the dean of the NFL at this point.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I mean you're talking.

Speaker 6 (00:58):
He's on the short list of longest ten yured coaches
in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I just was retweeted it. There's red, Yeah, there's like seven.

Speaker 6 (01:05):
Him and Lafleur came in the same very close to
the same time. I just retweeted it. I have to
go find the exact list here. Let's see. So Red
McVeigh seventeen, you had McVeigh, Shanahan and McDermott was the
seventeen class. Obviously Andy Reid was hiring twenty thirteen. And
then you have Zach Taylor and Matt Lafleur in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
The old head. There's the old heads, Laflour and Zach Taylor.

Speaker 6 (01:32):
I mean, incredible that this is where, this is where
we're at, but this is where we're at.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
This is there felt like last night watching that game
against the Texans, there felt like a sense of finality,
especially listening to Troy Aikman talked during the broadcast about
Aaron Rodgers as well, but Mike Tomlin and maybe having
his pick of broadcasting jobs during the game there there

(02:00):
felt like that felt like it. Yeah, that there there
was a sense of like this is this is changing,
this is over, this is it.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:09):
It has a feeling of like one of those worst
kept secret deals where the certain people knew yeah and
were hinting and trying not to say what they kind
of want to say.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And then especially when you get into something like a
broadcast team like that.

Speaker 6 (02:25):
Yeah, uh yeah, it felt like that what it's this
is going to be such an interesting dynamic because the
Steelers are still in purgatory. Yeah, Like, I still Tomlin
to me, while it was old and stale or whatever
you want to call it there and they lost these
playoff games, he's still a good Like, he's still a

(02:48):
really good coach. They were in roster purgatory. Yes, more
than coach purgatory. Agree, Like, I think that Tomlin has
every ability to win in the postseason despite the struggles
that they've had. They just haven't been able to figure
out quarterback. They have invested in aging players, and maybe
part of that is he's worked them too hard during
the course of the year. You can debate the philosophy

(03:10):
on that, but like, you got to have somebody that
can come in and have an answer to fixing quarterback,
and I just don't know that anybody can come in
and immediately push that button with where Pittsburgh stands and
where the league sits outside of another version of the
band aids that they've been doing with these free agent
mid tier guys.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
You think of nine, ten years ago when they had
Ben Roethlisberger still was you know about a B a
B level quarterback, still very capable, and they had Le'Veon
Bell and Antonio Brown and there was a real dynamic offense.
And then since the immediate aftermath of that to now,
the offense every year for them has looked exactly the same. Yes,

(03:52):
Houston exacerbated that last night with that defense. And I
don't watch every Pittsburgh Steelers game, but watching them as
I do playing the Bengals and just being a follower
of the league, it feels like, independent of coordinator, quarterback, personnel, weaponry,
offensive line, that the offense looks exactly the same every

(04:13):
single year. I don't know how that's going to change
from this year to next.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, you know, if.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
You bring in somebody with more of a modern offensive philosophy,
you're like, okay, let's tap into the massive McVeigh shanahan
the whole league at this Yeah, but they've never done
anything like that there. They've had defensive coaches, guys with
different backgrounds, you know, Arthur Smith, who's not exactly in that.

(04:39):
So if you're maybe there, it's like a hey, a
Clint Kubiak or somebody that's bringing an offensive person, but
you never know. I mean, think about how outside of
the box Mike Tomlin was as an original higher for them.
I mean he was not even really I mean he
was recordinated for one year. Yeah, but like very much
off the mat. Who is that right? And he's been

(05:02):
here that long. They're not afraid to do that. And
you gotta feel like you can get an incredible coach
just due to the stability that you know you're gonna
have there compared to anywhere else. So a fascinating search
for me. But you know, the fallout in the North
is Okay, we keep talking about the pressure on this

(05:24):
team to win in twenty twenty six, like this is just.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
One level up.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
It's kind of the same way of talking about this
past season where there it was, it was accessible when
you wasted a chance. This feels like you had the
year where your offense was super healthy, you went nine
to eight and didn't make the playoffs, right, you had
the year this past year where the North was a disaster.
You get Joe Burrow back in record time and you

(05:49):
still can't make You couldn't find a way to have
it relevant. Really, by the time you get here and
make the playoffs. The entire division is now changing head coaches,
except in your pump up the continuity. If you can't
get off to a fast start and try to win
this division, that's three strikes, right, And I think we've
it's felt that way for a while, and it certainly

(06:11):
feels like this is only putting more of a spotlight
on the just extreme pressure cooker of this year for
Zach Taylor, and who knows, maybe by connection when you
look at the support statement put out by Mike Brown
Duke Togan as well.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
And then if things don't work, the Bengals will just
hire Mike Tomlin, trade for apparently, Oh that's right, Yeah, Well,
I mean you know he's got one more year left
Mike Tomlin does on his coaching contract, correct, right, So
if you wanted him now, you'd have to trade for him.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
My guess is the Bengals aren't gonna do that.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
But you and I both know if Mike Tomlin is
not coaching a team in twenty twenty six, this entire
season will play out against the backdrop of people demanding
that they hire Mike Tomlin, this coach that so many
of us have spent years making fun of will suddenly
be the apple of our eyes?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (06:58):
Oh, this will happen with so many I mean, this
is what this is, what it always is. I'm curious
what what TV job like? Where where's he gonna where's
he gonna land?

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is it? Is it gonna be? I guess is it
gonna be Fox? Is it gonna be?

Speaker 6 (07:13):
Is it gonna be something like Belichick where he's doing
a little bit more kind of unique stuff with different
people to re I I don't, I don't. I'm curious
to see what that ends up looking like.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I mean I'm imagining that's a studio role.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Probably Mike Tomlin sitting in a booth calling you know,
uh panthers, uh buccaneers on the third Fox Team.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (07:37):
I like him on like a Monday. I like him
on like a reaction type show. But would be interesting.
But I mean, that's that's the path, right, that's the
rehab path. You go, you do a year of TV,
and then you're everybody. He's clearly trying to take this
Sean Payton path here at this point, right, I mean,
this was the same concept, the same idea. A lot
of other stuff going on with Sean but like then

(08:00):
gets right into this. He's gets this huge contract for Denver,
and because he had created this idea, he's gonna come
in and fix it. And here he is having fixed
it for the number one seed in the AFC. And
I'm sure Mike is like, I would love to actually
coach a team with a quarterback again at some point,
and that'd be nice.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
The Bengals have a quarterback. You do have a quarterback,
So so here you go.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
So there it is. I know he's got ties to
the reach, he has ties to the region. He's worked
for a mom and pop franchise before, right, I mean
the difference division, the differences between the Bengals and Steelers
structurally are not that different, right, I mean there's not
that many. So yeah, Mike Tomlin, Bengals head coach, twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Seven sounds good. Sure, market Town.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
All right, you're at the Big press conference on on Friday.
I was Big Media Events the event you wrote about
your takeaways? I did, Oh, I love when I love when.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
You print him out for me.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
But yeah, because it's easier for me to high stuff.
I'm still a big print guy.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
I know you are.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Besides, we have reams of paper here that somebody is
paid for.

Speaker 6 (09:05):
I was just thinking about how big of a prink
guy you are, because I was just texting with Dan
Brugo a little earlier, talking to a little bit of
just some random draft stuff.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Heck.

Speaker 6 (09:13):
I was like, oh, mo's got to be like getting
the toner on demand right now.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
So a few things and we're up against it. So
we'll carry this to the next segment. I guess the
first one would be that thing on Friday took on
a life of its own. It's an hours hour long.
There's people who don't cover the team who are there.
We're promoting it like it's a game. It doesn't have
to be that way. But my guess is, and you

(09:41):
address this, you can tell me if I'm wrong. I
feel like that event, the Duke Tobin end of year
press conference, should be a thing, and I'm guessing it will.

Speaker 6 (09:51):
It felt like he suggested as much at the end,
with a if you guys want this, I'm happy to
do it. And I think we all kind of we're
looking at each other like, yeah, we want this, like
we always want this, And I feel like it's fine
to say I think this should be the punishment for
not making the playoffs, is you have to do this
because it's it's fine, Like, if you make the playoffs,

(10:13):
your schedule ends up closer to where he was talking
in Mobile anyway. But if we could just have it
in Cincinnati, I think everyone would appreciate that. But I
if that's what he's saying, that he's happy to do that,
then I think this should one hundred percent be a
thing every single year.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
There's no reason it shouldn't.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
He's in this position and he should have to answer
those questions and it was fine. I do think it
becomes less of the event and kind of firing lines
that it ended up being when it happens regularly. I
think the build up and the hype and the he

(10:54):
needs to be doing this that went on for over
a year when we were talking, you know, even further
back than that, all of that building up to that moment,
I think turned it into what it became.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I don't think it has to be like that.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
There's probably ways to avoid it being quite like that
that you can figure out logistically on their end or
our end or whatever. But I do think that it
being a thing feels like if he's gonna say i'll
do it. Then we're gonna say, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
I did enjoy the hype. I did enjoy the build up.
I enjoyed the fact that we were running promos for it.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
I enjoyed the fact that there were folks who would
like put their entire early.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Friday afternoon on pause.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, so they can listen to And by the way,
I never want to hear how there's fan apathy ever again,
because you had people who in the middle of a
work day, We're putting everything aside to listen to a
press conference involving Duke Tobin. Right, so miss me with this,
nobody cares about the Bengals anymore. That was a media event.

(11:57):
Every Bengals fan I know was at least paying attention.
Many were following on social media, Many were listening on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Many were watching on the Bengals Twitter feed.
But folks were locked into a press conference. Ain't no apathy.
No TV was preempting programming. Yes, was the Laker or
whoever's on TV during the day.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
There were lots of commercials for the general and personal
injury attorneys that had to get made good. This week
because they were carrying the press conference.

Speaker 6 (12:30):
Well that's the that's the point is that's people want
people want this, Fans deserve this, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (12:39):
They and now I knew they were going to be disappointed.

Speaker 6 (12:43):
Of course they were. Anybody that like, this has happened again.
Like we've talked to Duke so many times, and it
is anticipated every time you do, and every time. He's
not a newsbreaker. He's not a he's not a shake
he's not a giving stuff up guy. Like he's not
a drop bombs at the at at media availability type.
He's fairly polished turn in that regard. Like I knew

(13:07):
that that was how it was going to be coming
out of it. It would have been stunning if it
would have come anywhere near the hype that was happening
towards it. But that said, it's still great that the
hype existed to put a point and a focus on
the fact that it needed to happen.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
I said on Thursday, I think we're building this up
to the point that folks are expecting a show. Yeah,
and it's not going to be a show. You may
not like the answers, you may not like the questions,
it's not going to be a show, and so I
think the build up invariably set the entire thing up
to disappoint people because it wasn't going to be a performance.

Speaker 6 (13:44):
I said this on my podcast, and I was like,
I felt like people thought that it should be like
remember when the guy threw the shoe at George Bush.
It should be like I think people expected me to
ask a question and then throw a shoe at them,
and then my follow up should be the other shoe.
I'del like that's what people wanted or expected this, like

(14:07):
you know, and this massive yell yelling back and forth
or whatever, and it was I think everybody just had
their their questions if they wanted to get in. It's
just hard when you can't really have a conversation, right,
like and that's the like this is on the on
the on the like totem pole of things and and

(14:29):
and platforms and places that you can do this Like
this is pretty low right in terms of getting getting
in actual answers. But I do understand that why this
is where it had to be and in this particular moment.
But you were never gonna get like a good conversation
about the state of things in that room.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
All right, Well, I have an idea for next to
yours press conference that I want to share with you.
We also have to talk about your free agency preview. Yeah,
we have a lot of a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Of that's the one that made you make a weird sound. Yes, yes, speaking.
It's nineteen minutes after three o'clock. Mogger.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Paul Danner Junior is here from The Athletic and the
Growler Podcast. He's here till four. We are here till
six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Twenty three after three o'clock.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic,
the latest edition of the Growler Podcast with apparently my
crappy internet connection.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Is up right now. I didn't know what to do.
I watched, Yeah, I watched it and it wasn't good.
So it's okay. I fear something out.

Speaker 6 (15:37):
The audio was The audio was fine, Yeah, the audio
was fine. It was rainy in and out of some
grain as a time.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
You ever seen video from like the International Space Station, Yeah,
that's what I look like for my basement.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Why can't we figure this out? I don't know why.
I don't know. Oh, I have to get on that
all right.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
So a few things about the press conference Megapress conference,
which lasted sixty three minutes, in your opinion is we've
done it before, a fair counter to fan distrust.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's an audio platform. I need you to tell you
need me to talk about that.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I mean, because that was that was a theme, right,
We've we've done it before. So there's fan distrust, which
is a large part why everybody wanted this big megapress conference.
Even so fan distrust. The message from Duke was essentially
we've had successes, We've done it before. Is that a
fair counter to the fan distrust?

Speaker 7 (16:29):
No?

Speaker 6 (16:30):
I mean I think that the idea that something that
worked for or five years ago is definitely going to
work now is not. You would you wouldn't accept that
from your coaching staff saying well, look, the types of
offenses we were running in twenty twenty one are still
going to work exactly the same as they do. Know
the League of Alls every year, right, it changes, and

(16:52):
that is the same in the off season, the league
of alves and the way people use certain contract stretchers
more wide widely, the way players expect more types of
certain to whether it's year two guarantees or void years
or any of the things you're going to talk about
the way free agency is handled, the way that picks
are coming into the league, like every Yes, some things

(17:15):
stay the same, but things do change and evolve, and
you guys have to evolve with it.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Now.

Speaker 6 (17:22):
Is that saying that they can't come in here and
it can end up looking like it did four and
five years ago in terms of execution. Sure, but you
can't shoot down the idea that some things maybe need
to be done differently because the league changes and you
need to change along with it more often. And it's
a lot of I'm sure the frustration with the way

(17:46):
people talk about the scouting staff size, right, and it's
not necessarily about the people doing it. It said, Okay, everyone
else is throwing just armies of analytics people at this stuff,
and and people that can come from every angle of
understanding all of that. Then in the projections and models

(18:07):
and whatever, and yeah, they they added Trey La Bounty, right,
they got to now in the analytics department, that's part
of it, right, Like one one or two people working
with your scouting department when you already don't have you know,
all the area scouts and everything else that that other
people do is gonna draw attention. More people are investing

(18:28):
in that stuff. That is part of the evolution of
the league. Does that mean you can't still go down
there and hit on a Marius Mims No, obviously, yeah,
or or whatever, or hit on draft picks that that
do or don't hit like it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
It doesn't mean anything. It's just it's just why not
have those advantages? Why why not have that information as well?
I understand that. And you can't say that things are
gonna work that the way they did four and five
years ago. The league changes too fast. It's just the
league changes too fast. There's too many advantages that team
staying ahead of that trend and gain every year to

(19:01):
dismiss it as well, we'll just do it the same
as we did four or five years ago.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Do you believe if Duke Tobin had complete and total
carte blanche that he would keep the scouting staff size
what it is.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, if I don't think it's a thing where he can't.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
So if he decided I want to hire four new
people in scouting and analytics and in player personnel, you
believe that he would have the ability to say to Mike,
I want to hire four folks.

Speaker 6 (19:32):
I think so, I do I think that he could
have that. I think I have never once. I mean,
they have added across whether it's coaching staff or even
in the scouting staff. Over the course of the time
that I've been talking to Duke, you know, decade and
a half now, they have added. They have increased sizes

(19:56):
of things, They've done things differently. He's gotten that, and
every step of the way has said the same thing
to me, like this is the size, like I don't
want it to be much more. I like the small
nature of it. I like the collaborative nature of it.
This is like his message that he put out there
last Friday is very similar to probably the first time

(20:17):
I asked him thirteen years ago. Honestly, I mean, it
hasn't really changed a whole lot. And so I do
think that if they felt like that would help them
win having those people, that they would do it. I
don't think it's a thing where there's no you can't
have any more people here, there's not money for that.
I really do not think that is the case. I

(20:39):
think this is largely the preferred nature of it.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
I don't know a lot about prediction markets, but if
I did, I would try to see if I could
find Bengals to take pass Russia in round one. Right, Yeah, Now,
pass rushier doesn't have to mean edge. No, we've talked
about this. One of their grave mistake has been, you know,
getting three techniques who were not pass rushers, you know,

(21:04):
good run stoppers. So if I go on Calshie or
one of these prediction markets, be Calshy guy. No, I
don't really understand how that works. I have a hard
enough time tracking my bets on FanDuel. Yeah, but could
I do you think I could could find this market
where I make a wager predicting that the Bengals take
pass Rusher in round one based on the Duke Tobin

(21:25):
mega press conference.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I mean that was the point.

Speaker 6 (21:29):
Of the things that came out of it in terms
of a real, real answers.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
It was that this is gonna be the folkus.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
If you wanted transparency in any part of that press conference,
there it was.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
That was it. It was.

Speaker 6 (21:42):
It was Wait, now there's probably some frustration in that
that's exactly what we were saying last year, and it
was a run stuffing nose tackle in bj Hill, right,
everybody knew you needed pass rush and there was no
especially from the interior, right, and it was like no,
it was the message was if we stop the run better,

(22:04):
we'll have more opportunities to run the past. Or was
the messaging this year? Now it's a pass rush is
king and got to have it. So yeah, and there's
only so many places you can get that, like you're
gonna have a hard You can get edges in free agency,
like you can, it's gonna cost you. You can't get

(22:24):
elite three techniques without paying out the notes. And there's
really not gonna be any So whether you're talking about
looking to the draft for that, that certainly seems the
most likely that somebody up there is in and a
draft that will have that. And then Caleb Downs as
well is gonna be in that conversation obviously just by
the nature of how good he has been. And then

(22:46):
we'll have premium position conversations that everybody loves. But yeah,
it's clearly pass rush as the focus of I would
think for agency and the draft in some capacity.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
All Right, we do have to talk.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I have a couple of questions about next year's Duke
Tobin Mega press conference.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
And then we have to get to your list of
free agencies. And I'll try to replicate the sound that
I made. Okay, when I read one of the capsules
about the the guys who are due to leave the
Bengals if they don't resign them.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
I have a feeling that just knowing your history here,
you know where this is going right to one person immediately.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, So before I printed it, I hit control F
and I typed in two words, Geno Stone.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, got right to it.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
I read the rest, but yes, I you should have
just started with him. The picture here should not be
of Trey Hendricks. I don't care about him, Gino Stone.
We'll get to that when we come back. It's twenty
eight away from four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station. It's at twenty three from four o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeger with Paul Danner Junior

(23:54):
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast. If
you missed it, Mike Tomlin steps down his head coach
of the Pittsburgh Steelers after nineteen seasons. Of course, in
those nineteen seasons, the losses never outweighed the wins. Congratulations
to him. The Houston Texans points dramatically outweighed Pittsburgh's last night,
thirty to six, which means Marvin Lewis got to mention

(24:15):
on TV last night seven straight playoff losses.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
Do you feel like you gotta feel like Marvin went
to the wine cellar and found an extra nice bottle
last night to celebrate not being the sole owner of
the seven straight playoff.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Losses you had to have had to have. That's got
to feel good.

Speaker 6 (24:32):
Although the flip side is people are gonna bring up
the fact that you also had seven straight playoff losses,
where that people had kind of probably forgotten that for
a while.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Now I haven't forgotten. I haven't. Manye, those watching the
broadcast probably had, but I know you had.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Next year's Duke Tobin mega press conference events. Will he
continue to mention Joe Flacco?

Speaker 5 (24:57):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Specially he's back, you know.

Speaker 8 (25:00):
So.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
A former athletics director at U See once gave me
an authentic throwback basketball jersey, which I thought was really
nice and I was deeply appreciative, and I sent him
a handwritten thank you note and then when I framed
it and hung it in my basement, I took a
picture of it and sent it to him. Made just
a point of expressing my gratitude. For the next two

(25:24):
and a half years, every time I saw this guy,
he would bring up the jersey that he gave me.
How's that jersey I gave you? It's awesome, looks great
at my wall. Hey, remember when I gave you that jersey?
Is this how Duke Tobin's gonna treat Joe Flacco? Or
three four years down the road, assuming he's in his
current capacity, he's going to remind us, oh'd you like
that Joe Flacco game against the Steelers?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Remember when I traded for him? Is this going to
be the new thing?

Speaker 9 (25:48):
Well?

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Sure, every time we ever met.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
By the way, it was Mike Boone, I'm stunned.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
I'm stunned. Stunned.

Speaker 6 (26:00):
No, uh yeah, because anytime we talk about the trade
deadline again, m m you.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Know he remember, didn't even wait to the deadline last
year and.

Speaker 6 (26:09):
Say we don't make deals in season anymore. That traded
for Joe Flacco. Anytime we talk about quarterback injuries, I'm
sure we'll never have to talk about quarterback injuries anymore?

Speaker 10 (26:18):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (26:19):
Anytime? You know, we we talk about willingness to part
ways with draft picks at some point do business with
a division, the division rival to the can't remember that?
And next time they play Pittsburgh remember last time? Yeah,
it's gonna be There's there's there, it is, It's right there.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
I mean he showed up with that notepad. Did he
just write Flacco on it?

Speaker 6 (26:43):
I would like actually to see what was exactly on that.
I don't feel like something that just said Flacco with
a little heart next to it or something or a star.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Here's what the press conference needs next year. You need
that lady who covers the Jacksonville Jaguars, Lynn Jones, to
just go in there and remind you that he's doing
a great job.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Are you really a sports writer if you haven't weighed
in on that situation in Jacksonville?

Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yes, because I consider myself a sports writer, and I refuse, Okay,
I'm just not. I'm just because to me, I, in
my opinion, the proper response is to not have an
opinion on it, because here's the thing, something weird can
happen in a press conference. And also to roll my
eyes and we'll move on, Like I don't do I
agree that that should be happening in a press conference. No,

(27:29):
but not to the point like whatever, something stupid happened,
and you move on and go about your day. It's
not something that needs to be the end of the world.
It's not an epidemic happening in press conferences across our
great country right where every single press conference has some
very nice lady telling somebody how great they are. That's
not happening if this was becoming an issue in like

(27:50):
press conferences everywhere are bogged down by empathetic, nice women,
Like what are.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
We talking about?

Speaker 6 (27:57):
Like, it's just a weird thing that happened in a
press conference. Weird things happened, altil Yeah, so okay, you move.
It doesn't have to be a statement on the end
of journalism as we know it in and like this
just can't Like, I mean, what are we doing?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
I just I don't understand why it has to be
such a thing.

Speaker 6 (28:17):
And I guess now I just broke my own rule
by having an opinion on it.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
You know, if you remember, for about three days the
Reds were gonna hire ron Oaster as the manager, and
we had somebody here who wanted me, as like a
twenty year old producer to dress up as the Oaster
Bundy and go to the press conference and pass out eggs.
And I, even at that young age, knew that's not

(28:40):
a good idea. So, uh, you know, I've been in
meetings where we have kicked around the idea of defying
the sanctity of the press conference. Fortunately, great journalism mine
like me stepped up and said, no, would you like.

Speaker 6 (28:55):
To talk about the sanctity of a press conference to
somebody who watched a little person come in and ask
questions to more?

Speaker 2 (29:01):
That's right? When he called Johnny Manzila midget. Yes, yeah,
and he showed up the next day and sat front
and center.

Speaker 8 (29:07):
Sanctity. Look, it's open man. Yeah, do with this space
what you would like? Andy Reid when he starts his
press conference, has time's yours?

Speaker 5 (29:19):
Right?

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah? Do with it what you'd like? Yeah, do with it?
What you'd like is my page. I do have a question.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
One of my favorite things about any sports press conferences,
in any moment of levity, it feels like there's an
obligation to laugh more extremely than the moment allows.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I think we got that on Friday. Uh yeah, who
by us laughing or him?

Speaker 3 (29:39):
So Duke made a reference to Kelsey's question and he said, oh,
you don't want to come to Mobile. And then there
was you know, I thought it was a lighthearted moment.
There was a falling in that room, and I so
here's my question, Like, in that moment, that's it's not tense,
but it's it's a guy talking about the team that failed.
It's his responsibility. It's it's not going to be uh,

(29:59):
you know, a comedy routine. He's not gonna do stand up.
But in a moment like that where there's just a
little tiny unease, is there sort of an unwritten rule
that you're supposed to laugh louder than the moment actually allows,
as if the joke is funnier than it really is,
just to break the tension.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
Yeah, we call it weakscribe laughter. Okay, where it's like,
you know, we admit that we're weak. We're just trying
to keep it. We're just trying to like play along here. Okay.
I don't know about extra, but there is also a
need to have like some sort of other emotion other than,
like you said, a little bit of tension that existing
in that room, so that anything that resembles comedy, even

(30:42):
in the like faintest of terms, feels funnier in that
room than it actually is, just by the nature of
everyone kind of wishing that they were in a place
where laughter was accepted.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
It reminded me of being in court for my divorce
when the just said something that was not that funny,
but it lightened the tension a little bit, and all
parties in the room decided that we were watching Mitch
Hedberg at his prime.

Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah, in fairness, In fairness, I probably laughed loudest at
the Mobile because I am happiest to not be going
to Mobile anymore.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't blame you one more thing about the press conference.
You folks who cover the team and do a great job,
and the Bengals beat core is collectively awesome. And I
said this to you on your podcast, and I'll reiterate
it today. As a fan, I wish that setting would
have been limited to you guys. I get that that's

(31:39):
not realistic. How do you guys feel when the folks
who typically aren't there or typically don't cover sports come
in and they've got questions When there's a finite amount
of time and you don't know when your next opportunity
for a Duke Tobin availability like that is going to be.

Speaker 6 (31:54):
I mean, I don't love it because, like I said earlier,
it's not the best way to talk to Duke or
have a conversation with him to get real answers. But
I mean, it's it's it's there, it's open. I would
love I would love for there to be a qualifying
circuin number like you have to have been at seventy
five percent of Zach Taylor Wednesday press conferences. There's something

(32:17):
to be to earn admission to the Duke Turbine end
of year deal, right or.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Something like that.

Speaker 6 (32:25):
I would be, I would be I would support something
like that where people that have been there all year
and and but everyone has a right to be there.
I like, I have always liked the Duke Tobin side
sessions at the Combine probably of anything we do with

(32:45):
him all year. And in fairness, you know, I you know,
take shots at mobile right, pretty good? Yeah, like for
us for me, now not for everyone else, I understand,
because not everyone's going to go down there. There's no
TV element, it's very unorganized, there's not a lot of structure,
but you know you're getting it's if you're willing to

(33:07):
go there, it can be worth it. I like when
we go to Indianapolis and we're able to it usually
is just the beat group that goes. It's away from
the podium that most people see much more much more
conversational and we know, you know there's a lot you're
closer to things about to happen in March. So I

(33:29):
I've always liked that as my favorite of all the
availabilities during the year. Mock Turtle Soup's a little crazy
and it's more focused on the season and other stuff.
There's the whole road MIC's going that day. That's always
been my my the best environment in my opinion, And
so yeah, I mean that's but the it's whatever they

(33:49):
want it to be. Like I'm happy that they're doing
it there because it didn't it needed to be put
into that space. It needs to be in the lights.
Like that's that's important that that moment exists.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
You broke down as you do every year, the pending
free agents, who stays, who goes, and you kind of
encapsulate each guy with where things stand, what they've accomplished,
and then you put a percentage on their chances of returning.
I want folks to read the piece, but I highlighted
here Gino Stone chance of return fifteen percent. Yeah, this

(34:27):
is fifteen percent higher than it should be. Years ago,
when the radio station was in Mount Adams, you know,
we would share a building with a parking garage and
people would park in that garage to go to the bars.
And one night I had to go as a young
kid to run extra innings, and so I went to
UDF to get something to eat, got a hot fudge Sunday,

(34:47):
and I'm getting on the elevator on a Friday or
Saturday night, and there's a couple on the elevator engaged
in amorous behavior. Oh and as the elevator door swings open,
there are these two people in various degrees of undress.
And I made a sound that was exactly the sound
that I made when I saw fifteen percent chance that

(35:09):
Geno Stone is gonna come back. I would try to
make the sound for you, but I am coming off
having a cold, and my voice is a little scratchy,
but it was high pitched, it was sudden, and it
was disconcerting.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
I wasn't sure you were going with that. That's the
exact sound that I made.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
I went to it. I hit all f read to
think about Gino. You were you were generous in assessing
his play chance of return fifteen percent.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yes, because I've not gonna rule him out as a backup.

Speaker 6 (35:43):
Like to me, if backups play too well, not if
they're behind genostone.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
But it's to me, it's I think that's what he is.

Speaker 6 (35:55):
Yeah, I think he's a backup safety in the NFL,
CFLs I.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
There's a fifteen is a not a big number. Okay.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
It's just if you get to a position where they
sign a safety and they're like, well we need a backup,
and he's out there and he's basically signed for the
league minimum, and he knows the system and can be
in the reserve role, then it's not impossible.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I'm not gonna rule that scenario out.

Speaker 6 (36:22):
If this was the starting number, it would be like
one percent or whatever, you know, I would. I do
not see a world where they're running back Gino's stone
is the starter.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Of course.

Speaker 6 (36:31):
Last year, I didn't see a world where they said
we believe in you and then gave him a pay
cut and kept him out there all year, right, even
though the play was poor.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yes, that said, I.

Speaker 6 (36:39):
Don't you know, I don't see that snarre. The one
is if there's a backup role, then there's a backup role.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
This cup of water that I'm holding.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
If I said take a drink and there's a fifteen
percent chance you will die, would you take a drink? No,
you would go fifteen percent. That's a pretty good chance
I'm gonna die. Tell I feel about Genostone, Dalton Riisner
seventy five percent?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Why is it that low?

Speaker 6 (37:02):
It's the Bengals, it's guard, it's you know, Dalton has how.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Much of a pay raise would he would he get?

Speaker 6 (37:09):
He's a good question, James, James Repene and I have
had some passionate debates about this.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
I don't I don't think.

Speaker 6 (37:17):
I mean, this is a guy that's never made more
than three He's a veteran in his career. He's basically
made the league minimum, you know, this past year. But
waited all the way to the end hoping there would
be a market for him. At some point there wasn't.
He signed up for one and change, so did what
he was good and he he they found a role
and everyone's vouching for him. But was he league minimum

(37:38):
to five million per year better than he has been
his entire career.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (37:43):
It's probably in the middle there somewhere. There's probably a
version of a two years eight with some sort of
something that everybody feels like they're happy that where you
land in this, But I don't know that there's a
history of him holding out and and you know, holding
out in the terms of not signing immediately last year,
like last year and years before that.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
That wasn't the first time that, but he has said
that's what he doesn't want to do, doesn't want to do,
and but the Bengals have to get that done. So
I I, you know, seventy five percent is still on
the high side. But there's the twenty five percent of
guard re Reisner's history ambiguity. I think that goes into this.
I think everyone would like to get it done.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
But I don't know. Fre agency is weird man stuff.
Weird stuff happened.

Speaker 6 (38:28):
This does feel like as you have put it, this
does feel like the layup. Do you still have the
hoop and the ball? I do, yeah, okay, I do
like that. I still feel it's like that but I so, in.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
All seriousness, what I do with some of these is
I try to I try to guess what value you're
going to put, what percentage you're going to put.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I nailed it with Joe Flacco.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, thirty three. I didn't nail it with any of
these other guys.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah. I thought Reisner would be higher. I thought, Ohsai
would be a little higher. I think I put it
at thirty. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Uh, you're obviously operating with a lot more back on
knowledge to me. But I nailed it with Joe Flacco.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I just think it is. I mean, Duke Tobin
mentioned eight times and then.

Speaker 6 (39:08):
There and they would love to have him, right, but
it's just not in their court because they have they
can't offer the one thing he wants, and that's to play.
Somebody might offer him the ability to play, and he's
going to choose that place over this one more than
likely because he wants to play and no one would

(39:29):
blame him. And but I definitely think there's whatever scenario
exists of if he, you know, doesn't want to sign
up to be a backup, but is in a starter
somewhere that he can just hang out, especially after he did.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
What he did this year.

Speaker 6 (39:46):
Why do you need to get in I mean, maybe
he just wants to be around the guys or whatever,
but he doesn't need to do that. So it's I'm
really curious to see how that plays itself out and
how necessary Joe feels like it is to have his
team set in the summer, how necessary the Bengals feel

(40:06):
like it is knowing Blacko could get picked up by
any team in the league at any point if you
isn't under contract with them, to then fill that with
somebody else, whether it be a Tyrod Taylor or any
number of traditional backups that you would hear thrown around there, right,
So what is that?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
What does that look like? I don't know.

Speaker 6 (40:25):
That's an interesting little puzzle for them to figure out.
I'm sure in a perfect world they would say, Joe Flacco,
we will sign you for one year's one year and
five million dollars and you can be our backup and
mark that down today. I'm sure they would be happy
to do that. I just don't think Joe's going to
do that.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
When does the mock off season exercise? Hand deep in
the sheets right now, trying to go through it.

Speaker 6 (40:46):
Yeah, it's very tedious every position, trying there's not a
lot of you know, there's not even a lot of
markets out there for what the free agents to be
are going to be. So I'm trying to figure out
what values are going to be on every guy and
remember how the Google doc works, and I'm in that part.
It's always it's the it's the darkest before the dawn.
I'm at that part where I'm like, I'm never gonna

(41:07):
make it. Every year I reach a point in the
mock off season sheet where I say I'm just never
gonna get it done. But it is supposed to be
out next week. Well I feel like that. I feel
like it's I'm hoping it's gonna happen, but I'm in
a dark place with it right now.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
What I remember about last year's exercise is my glee
and cutting ginostone, so I get to replicate that this year.
But also I I I bang my fist on the
table for Milton Williams, Yeah, who I watched single handedly
wreck the LA Chargers.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (41:34):
A takeaway of the weekend for me was look at
all of these great defense and tell me what's one
thing they have in common? Just game wrecking defensive tackles. Yeah,
across all of these games, you know what I mean,
just changing everything.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
But I might have a ceremony when I cut Genostone.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
There's no cut.

Speaker 6 (41:55):
Well, there's when you ceremoniously pick a different safety.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Yes, okay, literally any human being alive. Gina Stone is
probably an awesome guy, and here I am just destroying
the dude.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, it's not fair.

Speaker 6 (42:10):
Yet he's he's nice enough.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
He I'm sure he's a wonderful man, but it's not
about that whole boy. No, Well, thank you as always great.
Make sure you catch the Growler podcast and read Paul's
work at the Athletic dot com. Follow him at Paul
Danner Junior. And we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 6 (42:27):
I look forward to hopefully you'll be healthy enough next
week and you can make the sound.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, I want. I want to hear what it is.
I'll see what I can do.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, but by then my throats at like eighty five percent. Yeah,
but yeah, very good. It is four minutes away from four.
We're gonna give away Reds Fest tickets next hour. If
you know your Red's off season acquisition so you don't
have to do a ton of boning up. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station ESPO fifteen thirty, Bonus

(42:54):
six acts or four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Moeger. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Awesome stuff with Paul Dayner Junior over the course of
the last hour. By the way, something I said to
him I was thinking about over the weekend.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
It is I think undeniable.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
That there are folks who are you know, have been
Bengals season ticket holders or not even season ticket holders,
but you know they pay money to go to a
game or two who have said I'm not doing this
anymore financially. I think it's absolutely undeniable. I've seen folks
say like I'm done, And maybe it's a combination of
the team's performance and the cost of going to games

(43:33):
and having other stuff to pay for that is undeniable.
They lose season ticket holders when they go to the
super Bowl, so it goes without saying that they probably
have lost customers people spending money with them in the
aftermath of how this past season unfolded. But I do
always laugh when I hear and I get it more

(43:55):
with the Bengals than I do the other teams. Oh,
there's apathy. Apathy is gonna set it. Apathy is like tanking.
Apathy is something we talk about but we don't actually practice.
I hear about Bengals apathy all the time. Then I
see what the ratings are for their games when they're
on TV, which every single one is. I know what
Bengals related topics do on this show as opposed to topics

(44:18):
for any other entity in town. And I know that
nearly every even casual Bengals fan I know last Friday
at one o'clock was in some way, shape or form
paying attention to the Duke Tobin press conference, most of
whom knew Friday was gonna be pretty much a nothing burger.

(44:42):
And yet folks claiming apathy. I'm out, I'm done. What
were they doing on Friday? Paying attention to a prescott
Maybe hoping for a show that really didn't happen, Maybe
hoping for some insight into how things are going to
be done differently that really didn't happen. But regardless of

(45:02):
the motivation for paying attention, people were paying attention, which
honestly I thought was pretty cool. I mean, in mon
Friday at one o'clock, every sports fan in towns listening
to the same thing which I thought was I thought
was neat. Mike Tomlin's out in Pittsburgh steps down after
nineteen years, and you know, there's, as there often is

(45:25):
in life, room for multiple truths. I have not watched
every down of every Pittsburgh Steelers game, of course, because
I'm not a Steelers fan and i don't live there,
But I've watched enough that I think there's room for
multiple truths. Mike Tomlin's coaching career has been awesome and
may continue to be awesome if it continues, either this

(45:48):
year or next year, next season, twenty twenty seven, somewhere else.
And in your mind's eye, you know what a Mike
Tomlin coach team looks like. And for years, as a
Bengals fan, I was envious of that. You know, as
much as people have said, well, his teams played dirty,

(46:09):
I've watched his team's play with an edge. I've watched
his teams play with a nastiness that as a Bengals fan,
I've wanted the Bengals to play with and by the way,
at times when they have tried to play with that
same edge and nastiness, it's worked against him. Head to
head against the Pittsburgh Steelers to have nineteen seasons. As

(46:32):
much as we kind of make fun of this, I
don't know that you make fun of the accomplishment. Maybe
you make fun of the hyper focus on the accomplishment.
Nineteen straight years without losing more than winning. That's a
cool accomplishment. I think one of the more interesting and
neater stretches, if you will, in all the sports is

(46:54):
the fact that the Pittsburgh Steelers have had three head
coaches since nineteen sixty nine. I could say all those things.
I think all those things are true. I also think
it's true that just watching from where I sit and
for where people sit who are a lot closer to it,
it just felt like it was time. It just felt

(47:14):
like it was time for that franchise to, with respect
to the head coaching position, hit the reset button. By
the way, I listened to a fair amount of Pittsburgh
sports talk radio because there's a couple of hosts in
Pittsburgh who are really good at what they do. And
it's interesting if you listen to fans in Pittsburgh complain

(47:37):
about the organizational structure of the Pittsburgh Steelers, they sound
a lot like Bengals fans talking about the Rooney family,
where fans will talk about how cheap they are, how
they have outdated facilities, there being a lack of innovation,
that the family is a little bit too involved, and

(48:00):
that they're too stubborn, that they're too unwilling to make changes.
It does sound a lot like a lot of the
things that people here have said, quite fairly for the
most part about the Brown family and the Bengals. That
compare contrast, I think is pretty striking. I do think
what's interesting about that franchise. I guess there's two things.

(48:22):
One with Mike Tomlin and I thought this last night.
The Houston Texans just bullied them and the game frankly
should have been more lobsided.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
CJ. Stroud was terrible last night. Woody Marks was not.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
The Texans ran the ball effectively, but that defense, which
has been so good for most of the season, was dominant.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
And Tony and Austin were talking about this.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
It wasn't like they were coming up with a bunch
of exotic blitzes and coverages. It was we're going to
rush for and we can get to you, and we'll
cover in the back end. He can't beat his downfield.
Quarterback's not going to have any time. He's too slow
to evade our rush, and so we're gonna swarm them,
and they did. What's interesting in recent years has been

(49:09):
interesting in recent years about the Steelers under Mike Tomlin,
who has had an otherwise extraordinarily good head coaching career.
Is that brand you know, when you think in your
mind's eye, what a Mike Tomlin coach team looks like
has not been what they've played like in big games
in recent years. You know, it was striking. They lost

(49:32):
in the in the wildcard round last season to Baltimore,
and I think most of us would agree if you
paid attention last year, the Ravens were just better. But
in that game, which was in Baltimore last year, the
Ravens just lined up and pushed him around.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Again.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Didn't didn't do anything extraordinarily creative, didn't rewrite their offensive playbook,
just lined up and beat him.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Derek Henry ran for one to eighty six. Lamar Jackson
ran for eighty one in that game last night.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
The Houston Texans just pushed him around, beat him, ran
the ball, and then defensively just bullied Aaron Rodgers. In
recent years, it has felt like the Steelers brand, which
to a degree has predated Mike Tomlin but certainly is
identified with Mike Tomlin coach teams, the brand doesn't match

(50:34):
what's on the field. It's like I used to say
that about Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning's brand was uber, cerebral quarterback,
but then in playoff games for years would do dumb things.
I feel like the Steelers kind of the same thing
in recent years. And I say this as look, man,
I'm probably just like you. The Steelers couldn't have lost

(50:55):
that game by enough last night, Like there is there
is not a franchise in professional sports that I root
against with more passion than the Pittsburgh Steelers. And I
think most Bengals fans are in the same boat. You
probably are as well. But just looking at it objectively,
I think it's been a few years since the Pittsburgh
Steelers struck fear in you because we're not going to

(51:20):
be able to match their intensity. I remember before the
Thursday Night came, we did a pregame show. When Joe
Flacco helped beat the Steelers here on that Thursday night,
we did the pregame show Down at the Holy Grail,
and I was on with Lance McCallister and Rocky Boyman,
and you know, rock elt Rock played for the Steelers
for I think six games, but we were talking about

(51:42):
how that game, which Pittsburgh was four and one, the
Bengals were reeling Burrow is hurt. Season feels like it's
about to circle the drain, and Rocky was making the point.
I love Rocky Boyman, but Rocky was making the point like, well,
it's a Tomlin coach team, so you know they're going
to bring a fight.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
To the game.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
And I went, yeah, I don't know, man, because in
recent years that that hasn't felt like the case. And
so when you're a head coach and you've got this
identity and you've got this brand, but the identity and
brand aren't being mirrored by what's happening on the field,
maybe that's a signal that perhaps a change for all
parties involved is necessary, because I do think it has

(52:19):
been a while and watching the Bengals just head to
head against Pittsburgh, but also watching the Steelers in playoff
games were really felt like the Steelers were the aggressor.
And when Mike Tomlin's teams have been at their best.
I've always felt like from a physicality standpoint, those teams
have been the aggressor. I also feel like, and I

(52:40):
know I mentioned this to Paul last hour, and this
is not Steeler's talk, but it is an AFC North team,
it's arguably the Bengals' biggest rival. Oftentimes we do it,
we use the Steelers at a as a bit of
a barometer for the Bengals. I do think in watching them, though,
whether it's the last I don't know, two or three

(53:03):
years of Ben Roethlisberger or Russell Wilson or Justin Fields
or Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
This season, I feel like, for the most part, Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Steelers offenses for a while have all looked and felt
the same.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I left out Kenny Pickett. I guess I left out
Mason Rudolph.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
I feel like for a while, you know, we used
to joke about on this show, Ben Roethlisberger toward the
end of every season would make you wonder is he
coming back?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Is he not going to come back?

Speaker 3 (53:35):
And we would like pray for him to come back,
like Ben, yes, please come back, because there was just
something I don't know. Punchless about that Pittsburgh offense. It
has looked no matter who the coordinator has been, no
matter who the quarterback has been, no matter who the
main weapons have been, that offense has looked the same

(53:58):
now for a while. That's not an indictment on last night.
Last night, to me was about the Houston Texans against
a quarterback who's too old and too slow to be
able to get out of the way of four dudes,
just winning at the point of attack, but just watching
them and following the league as I do, and watching
the Steelers with a little bit of a closer eye

(54:18):
than maybe other teams and other divisions that aren't rivals
with the Bengals. You know, in the mid twenty tens,
they had an offense with Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown
and Ben Roethlisberger was still a very capable player. And
then as that decade kind of came to a close,
and I think for pretty much all of this decade,

(54:39):
that offense has looked and felt the same. And so
if I'm a Steelers fan, I guess what I want
to know, And even as a Bengals fan, what I
want to know is with a new head coach, and
I guess quite likely a new quarterback. How does that change?

(55:00):
How does how does that part of a change right?
How does the offense which they're kind of stuck in purgatory.
They haven't been bad in recent years. They've had a
lot of teams that have either snuck into the playoffs
or this year winning. Is it a getting to the
postseason as a division champ. They're not picking in the
top five, they're not picking in the top ten. How

(55:21):
do they get out of purgatory? And how do they
get unstuck on the offensive end, because for a while
their offenses have looked and felt the same and I'm
not sure how much of that is on the head coach.
There you go, twelve minutes on Mike Tomlin. Uh, that

(55:42):
might end this series. Just for whatever reason, decided to
answer me. Five point three seven nine fifteen thirty is
our phone number. We talked sports and law with uh
Stuart Penrose from Manila Law Group every Tuesday at four
thirty five. I want to get to enforceability of college
contract because you have the situation with the QB at

(56:04):
Washington who signs a new deal and then tries to
go to the portal, then goes back to Washington. We
have UC apparently getting a buy out from the Brendan
Soresby deal with Texas Tech, and so I think this
is We did a long discussion last week about the
current kind of state of college sports. I'm interested in
how these contracts are supposed to get enforced when the

(56:25):
players aren't technically employees. We'll do that coming up in
fifteen minutes. Plus, we've got some Reds Fest tickets to
give away later on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 10 (56:35):
I mean you see Cincinnati and iHeartRadio station Guaranteed Human
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I heard radio.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Guaranteed Human twenty five twenty four let's not get ahead
of ourselves twenty four at for four. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thanks for listening today. I'm Oeger. Let's tick
a phone call or two if I won three seven nine,
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
For having a non desk job.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
I am flooded with papers and paperworking here and that
doesn't make any sense, So pardon me for the rustling
in the background. Ron and Milford, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Ron,
good afternoon, How are you.

Speaker 7 (57:18):
Oh no, I'm Okay, when I saw Paul's list, I
gotta tell you, I almost spit through my tongue when
I saw Geno Stone at fifteen percent, Because, as you said,
if there was a negative percentage that we could attach
to it, that's what it ought to be. Now, when
I tell you this, I'm not trying to get any

(57:39):
pity or sorry or make anyone sad. But this is
a true story. So years ago, Ron from Milford was
paralyzed and had to learn how to walk again. Now
if you saw me today, you wouldn't notice mo, You'd
think that that's just Ron from Milford, right, awesome. Well,
I'm pretty sure that Genostone could not tackle me. I
could juke him, he would fall down, him on his face.

(58:02):
I mean we saw it though, over and over and
over again. I mean, one little move the dude's fall
into the ground, or if he's trying to hit you,
he just bounces off of you.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
I mean, no, I don't he's played. He's played terribly. No,
I don't.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
I don't want him anywhere near this football team. And look,
I mean we're we're it sounds like we're picking on
the guy. The Bengals had other issues on the defensive
side of the ball this year. But but Gino's play
the last two seasons has been glaringly bad. You know,
a year ago at this time, we were thinking about
what are they going to do to replace him? And
they didn't, and so, okay, fine, let's see if different system,

(58:45):
different coordinator, another year, familiarity with the French, whatever it is,
is going to bring out the best in him. And
he was often even worse. And I appreciate the nice
things that Al Golden has said about him. He's taking
up for his guy. All that's well and good. I
do not know how you could objectively watch, excuse me,
watch him play football for the Bengals last season and

(59:08):
arrive at the conclusion that he should have any role
on your team, starter or backup. No, and mo.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
The fact is, I mean, how humiliating is it when
they got to come to you and say, you know what,
you're so awful that we want you to take a
pay cut?

Speaker 5 (59:25):
Is that okay?

Speaker 7 (59:26):
And then he realizes that, oh, you know what, I
probably have no other choices. I better go ahead and
take this pay cut because I don't know if anyone
else in the NFL will bring me.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Aboard well, and then I would love to explore the
alternate universe where he says, no, I'm not taking a
pay cut.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
What would plan B have been?

Speaker 3 (59:45):
Then?

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Right?

Speaker 3 (59:46):
It was such a weird offseason as it relates to him,
because they demonstrate confidence in genostone by not signing a
safety and free agency and not drafting one. But then
weeks after the draft you act asked the dude to
take a pay cut. Well, that sort of undermines the
confidence that you apparently had. And what would plan B
have been had he told them, uh, uh, pound sand

(01:00:08):
I'm not taking a pay cut. If they cut him,
then what do they do? Or would they have said, Okay, fine,
you know, we'll pay you the same, Uh, we'll bring
you back no hard feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I want to know what plan B would have been
that he told him No, I'd like to know.

Speaker 7 (01:00:24):
I'd like to know that too, Mo, because let's face it,
like you said, had they told him to go pound Rocks,
what what would he have done? I mean they I
don't think you know, I think they would have probably
just kept him because they at that point, I don't
think there was anybody available that they would have paid
for because we're how cheap we are, so they wouldn't

(01:00:44):
have been able to find the proper person to fill
in his role.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Probably right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
No, look, it was an acquisition that didn't work. They
brought him back last season, it didn't work. I don't
know what would compel anybody to believe that suddenly the
light bulb is gonna go on and it's gonna work,
whether again, whether he's a starter or a backup this
coming season.

Speaker 7 (01:01:07):
He can't even play special teams.

Speaker 11 (01:01:08):
B He's awful.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
No, I mean, like with special teams, I need you
to take the right angle, like and that watching him, Man,
I've never played a down of safety in my life,
but I've watched enough to know what it looks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Like when a guy's taking bad angles.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
On special teams. I need you to take the right angle,
just like I need you to take the right angle
on defense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:01:28):
And I think he was a bad influence on Jordan
Battle because I feel like Jordan Battle prior to you know,
mind you he was a rookie prior to Gino Stone
showing up. But I feel like Jordan Battle had some
instances where he showed he could play. Then you bring
Geno Stone in and Jordan Battles play seemed like it
got worse.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Yeah, you know, Jordan Battle, Thank you, Ron. I don't
think anybody is opposed to Jordan Battle being on the team,
but Jordan Battle being on the team should not preclude
them from looking for upgrades or depth at the position.
Depth was an issue this year. They kept putting out
a guy who was clearly not performing all that well

(01:02:10):
instead of the players behind him.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
So that tells you they need better backups.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I don't want to see Genostone be one of those backups.
How do you enforce a college football players contract? We'll
get that answer and more.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Next ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's Sports.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Twenty seven from five o'clock. This excuse me is ESPN
fifteen thirty Maul Egger. Thank you for listening today and
putting up with the final remnants of a killer winter cold.
More calls, mainly on the NFL coming up here in

(01:02:50):
just a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
We've got to do a few minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
On college hoops, and we'll give away some tickets to RedFest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Coming up in the next hour.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
On Tuesdays, we spend some time chatting with Stuart Penrose,
attorney Manilo Law Group. He answers our questions about sports
and the law, and today we're going to talk about
college football and basketball players and other college athletes and
the enforceability of their contracts. Stuart, it's awesome to have
you as always. Good afternoon, No, good afternoon.

Speaker 11 (01:03:21):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
I appreciate you doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
So everybody asks questions about you know, college athletes. They
sign contracts, and yet it feels like they're not binding.
And perhaps the most high profile example is this kid
at the University of Washington, Demond Williams, who signs with
the Huskies to continue to play quarterback there, and then
a couple of days after signing his contract puts his

(01:03:45):
name in the transfer portal. Now he has sensed decided
to go back to Washington.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
And I think at.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
First glance, what a lot of his said is, well,
wait a minute, he signed a contract. Contract's got to
be binding, contract's got to be enforceable. But he's technically
not an employee. So how does a school, how do
any of these schools enforce these contracts?

Speaker 11 (01:04:05):
Well, it's wild. I mean, like you said, college players
aren't employees. You know, contracts exist, but they're not with
the schools. No they're with the nil collectives and other
third parties. Schools can't force someone to play. They can
certainly pull someone's scholarship, but they can't force you to play,
taking it more like a scholarship deal than a pro

(01:04:26):
a pro contract. You can't make someone you know, suit
up with the subpoena here.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
All right, So does the school have any recourse at
all or outside of the athletes becoming employees. Is there
something that can be done, perhaps even down the road,
that would allow them to hold these players accountable to
the contracts they've signed.

Speaker 11 (01:04:48):
Well, the problem with the schools fighting this is that,
as we talked about, they're not employees. Would be any
rule that blocks the player from from leaving or stops
other schools from recruiting them is probably going to violate
anti trust law, which we were getting into in the
last couple of weeks. Courts don't like agreements that retrain
straight restrained trade. College athletes don't have a union or

(01:05:11):
to negotiate restrictions. So you know, basically recruiting is kind
of a free for all marketplace right now. You know
schools can.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Pitch, players can pick, and you know there are no referees.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
We've we've seen reports that you know, Brendan Soresby, the
former UC quarterback, has agreed to go play at Texas Tech.
And as a part of this deal, uh, the University
of Cincinnati is going to get a one million dollar
buyout paid to the school by Brendan Sorosby. Is is
this a possible solution? Could we see this becoming a
regular thing like we do with coaches who are being

(01:05:43):
paid or have to pay buyouts all the time.

Speaker 11 (01:05:47):
It's put into it can be put into an NIL
contract if it would like Demond Williams, for example, if
he did ultimately reach Houston, you know, he'd have to
get back you know, whatever money was already prepaid to
him in the contract is an I on contract and
that's to be expected. Certainly you could put you know,
a buy out of some sort in there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
But it's a bit different than with the coach.

Speaker 11 (01:06:10):
There's less peace to it because there's not a school
attaching itself to it. It's the NIL collective per se
doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
What would some of the legal obstacles be if the
solution was to make the athletes employees.

Speaker 11 (01:06:25):
And at FUSS law first and foremost, they still want
to protect an amateur model. Does this blow up the
NCAA completely? Is there a way to do it where
it doesn't violate anti trust? If you make them employees,
how do you have a payscale to determine who gets
to How would you fund the noun money sports and

(01:06:45):
keep them afloat because.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
You're now going to have to pay those players as well.

Speaker 11 (01:06:49):
It basically opens Pandora's box and to a nuclear option.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Would each of the fifty states having different laws prevent
something like this.

Speaker 11 (01:07:00):
Would make it very difficult for there to be unison
on it. Absolutely mo Absolutely, state laws wanted to do
their own things and have their own caveats can absolutely
get in the way.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Would there be obstacles presented by the fact that you
have public schools and private schools?

Speaker 11 (01:07:16):
Yes, So getting everybody aboard in the same boat a
little the same rats together on this one is about
as impossible as you're going to find.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
So essentially, you're a college football coach.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
You can go, in this particular instance, you can go
sign a quarterback that you think, you know what, this
is going to be our guy, and in reality, while okay,
he's agreed to come and he's going to take the
scholarship money. The fact that he has signed a contract
to play for you certainly doesn't guarantee at all that
he is actually going to step foot on the football

(01:07:51):
field for you.

Speaker 11 (01:07:53):
No, it does not, And he doesn't have a contract
with the school again, the contracts with the nil collectives
or whatever the third party that got him there, he's
not required to play at all. Now he'll have to
give back the money that he got from that nil collective.
He might have to pay some sort of buy out
if he's a premier player like Storesby just did. But no,

(01:08:14):
he's not bound to do it. Now. What you could
look with the athletes could be doing what they could
risk here Mo is blowing their reputation. It seems like
that demon Williams saw the writing on the wall with that,
and you know, wised up and went back to Washington,
and you know, seems like he made the best decision
for himself and he saved a lot of faiths doing it.
So if players press too hard, you know, they could

(01:08:37):
they could be put out in the marketplace of being
a flake. And his schools aren't gonna want to come
calling after that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
No, as somebody who is a certifiable Flake. I can
tell you that's not something that any college athlete wants.
Stuart Penrose, Attorney, Manila Law Group. You can learn more
about Manila Law Group about Manilolawgroup dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Awesome insight. As always, we will talk next week. Thank
you out, you're the man.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Stuart Penrose, Manila Lawgroup, Manila Lawgroup dot com. Twenty minutes
away from five o'clock. There is the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah, we did.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
A topic last week and it was kind of by accident.
I think it was actually a result of a phone
call for Mike, just talking about like where we are
in college sports right now. I when man, I can't
emphasize this enough, like everybody else, I want everybody to
get paid. But I cannot imagine how frustrating it is

(01:09:36):
for coaches who oversee these large, corporate, corporate, for lack
of a better term, college football and basketball programs to
have almost no say in the enforceability of contracts that
players sign ostensibly to play for one university or another.

(01:10:00):
Remarkable times. We live in nineteen away from five o'clock.
Five point three seven nine fifteen thirty is our phone number.
More of your phone calls are coming out. We're gonna
give away Reds Fest tickets in the five o'clock hour
as well. You gotta you gotta play stupid trivia. We
got dumb trivia five point twenty today. Get ready. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Valentine's Day is a month from tomorrow. Tarran is getting ready.
My guy does love the sexy time music Little Ralph
tres Van Valentine's Days on a weekend this year, Tarran,
trust me, I know, set on a A A it's
a Saturday of it. So does that mean on Friday

(01:10:50):
the thirteenth, nothing but slow jams?

Speaker 5 (01:10:53):
You get?

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Uh? All right, very good? I U. I look forward
to that. I look forward to that. I won't make
it as awkward this year. You know what, do you do?
Whatever you want? Was it awkward last year? A little bit?
Was it? Did we play something inappropriate? I? Thought? So?

(01:11:17):
Are you in charge of the music? Okay? Very good?
I won't go that deep into the thanks very much.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
It's probably that's probably, uh, it's probably a good thing.
I've I've been asked if I'm going to talk about
the planned paper bag protest at the UC basketball game tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Ah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Sure, they're eight and eight. Fans are upset. Fans should
be upset. There's been loud billing. I'm reading from Scott
Springer who reached out to UC. I guess there's a
guide that exists as to what you can bring in
the fifth third arena, and apparently that guide says brown

(01:12:03):
bags are not permitted. A clear bag policy. I guess
they have at UC, so you can wear a clear bag.
I'm not sure that serves its purpose. Banners or signs,
unless improved by the athletics department, are not allowed. Nick

(01:12:23):
van Exwell has gone to Twitter to say don't wear
a bag. Miami University has sent a tweet referencing the
bag protest. Miami's basketball team is seventeen and Ozer I
would ask, shouldn't that be enough to get fans to
want to come to Mallett Hall. Look express your displeasure

(01:12:45):
however you want. If they let you wear a paper
bag into the arena, and you want to wear a
paper bag into the arena, then wear a paper bag
into the arena they don't let you wear If they
don't let you wear a paper bag into the arena,
then you're gonna have to come up with something else.
But these things are all the by product of losing
the escalator at the venue originally referred to as Paul

(01:13:09):
Brown Stadium. That venue is twenty six years old. Probably
half the time. That escalator doesn't work. When the Bengals
are losing, people complain about the escalator. When the Bengals

(01:13:29):
are winning, there are no complaints about the escalator. A
month or so ago, we had the game against the
Ravens where it was frigid, not freezer ble frigid, of course,
but frigid, and they didn't knock the snow off the seeds,
which they should have done. I mean to me, it's
just you talk about like making your layups, not as

(01:13:50):
much snow off the seeds as you can. It's the
sort of thing that people complain about louder when you're losing,
and are willing to let slide when you're winning. My
point is there's just things that naturally come with losing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
One of the things that naturally comes with losing is booing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Fans are gonna boo the boos the last couple of
home games have been pronounced, especially after the immediate aftermath
of the Houston game, you could not ignore it the booing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
I'm sure that's going to continue.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Something else that comes with losing is fans don't come anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Now. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
I don't know how many UC basketball tickets for this
season have been unsold. I have no idea, but I
would imagine whatever tickets are unsold, they're having a hard
time moving those tickets. And then you have folks who decide, well,
I've bought my tickets, but I'm not gonna go, okay,
or you know what, I'll pay for the rest of
this season, or I'll go the rest of the season
because I've paid for it, but next year I'm not

(01:14:51):
going to go, And then invariably you are going to
have demonstrations of displeasure and as for my money, as
long as you're not hurting anybody, as long as you're
not getting in the way of somebody else's enjoyment, or
as long as you're not breaking a rule, do whatever
you want to do, like stuff like this. Just it

(01:15:12):
comes with the territory when there's not winning. I don't
know that they need the visual of people wearing paper
bags to understand the displeasure that people feel with the
lack of on court progress. By the UC basketball team.

(01:15:32):
But if that's what you want to do, far be
it from me to tell you to not do something
that you're allowed to do. The question is are you
allowed to do it? And apparently you're not. So if
you bring a paper bag to the game and try
to where it, it feels like it's going to be confiscated.
Whether or not it should is an entirely different conversation.
But if you're going to have a clear bag policy,
then you're probably gonna have a hard time telling people
go ahead and bring a paper bag that's not clear.

(01:15:55):
So I'm frankly more interested in this. The Bearcats on Saturday,
I'm sorry, on Sunday Night played mostly well enough to win,
and as much as it is, it has felt like

(01:16:15):
the walls are closing in on West Miller in the program,
and as frustrating as the results have been, and as
you know, arguably off putting as the postgame interviews have been,
the one thing that I don't think we have seen
yet is lack of effort by the team collectively. Now,

(01:16:37):
whenever a season starts to spire a lot of control,
one of the byproducts of that is a question about
whether or not the effort at some point is going
to be compromised. Let's say they lose tomorrow playing a
pretty good Colorado team, and then, needless to say, the

(01:17:01):
schedule takes an uptick in difficulty where the second ranked
team in the country comes here on Saturday undefeated Iowa State,
and the game after that is against the number one
ranked team in the country, Arizona, which that team is
an absolute wagon. So unfortunately, when you're owing three in
the league in eight and eight overall, you have to

(01:17:23):
entertain a scenario where they're oh and six in the
league in eight and eleven overall, And naturally you wonder,
and this is no indictment against the character of the players,
but you wonder, like, how difficult is it going to
be for the head coach and for the coaching staff
to keep these guys together, especially in this day and

(01:17:46):
age where there's always opportunities to go somewhere else. And
I would be willing to bet that that would be
a topic that Wes Miller wouldn't like to be discussed.
But it's one of those topics that is a byproduct
of losing. Just like fans demonstrating their displeasure by either
not going, or by booing, or by creating a movement

(01:18:09):
where they're gonna wear paper bags. Those things are by
products of losing. For me, I'm a little bit more
interested in what this looks like because it's it's it's
an NCAA tournament or bust year. Frankly, let's call it
what it is. This team may't make in the tournament.

(01:18:31):
So but Wes is still the coach. If there is
an if there is an avenue that he could take
where he could still save his job and be the
coach next year. I would think that a roadblock would
be the team falls apart and the efforts not there
and they get accused of quitting. But you know, yeah,

(01:18:56):
I wasn't not going to mention it. It's a story.
It may be a thing tomorrow. Maybe lots of people
wear paper bags. Maybe there's folks who bring paper bags
and they don't because the arena staff tells them they can't.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
But these things are invariably a part of not winning,
and so the fact that that movement is out there,
so to speak, is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
It's sad. Like at the end of the day, I
think if you love.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
UC basketball as much as I do like, this is
not what we're supposed to be doing. Certainly not what
we're supposed to be doing in year five of a
coaching tenure, and honestly, like in thirty seven years of
following U see basketball, I can't really remember anything like this.

(01:19:51):
I remember mixed early seasons when folks simply weren't going.
People had just sort of tuned the program out. That
tune out factor hasn't been there. This is entirely different.
Coming up on five o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 12 (01:20:06):
Oh guess what day?

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Sure I do? It's right, It's Taco Tuesday. Taco Tuesday. Yes, yes,
Taco Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Except I think I'm having left over pork chops tonight.
I got to be honest with you. I'm gonna get
off the air. I'm gonna go home.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
I'm'a get him bad. Let's see my family. I've got
him dat two forty.

Speaker 13 (01:20:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
I would love I feel like I'm almost say I
feel like death.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
I need like a good twelve hours, twelve hours of sleep.
But there's some games I want to watch right starting
with the Dayton Flyers MI Alma Mater is an action Tonight,
Dayton's at Duquine u D is three and oh in
the A ten Virginia Louisville is gonna be a lot
of fun. Like there's say a handful of games. I
want to watch yukon Seat and Hall. I'm not sure

(01:21:04):
how good the Pirates are, but they have a gaudy record.
Houston plays tonight. My third favorite team now. But your
friend Moe could use.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Like one more long.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Night because I stayed up last night to watch football
and not feeling great, and then so I'm paying for
Nobody cares about this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
I have felt better.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
I will I will feel I will go to bed
tonight at nine o'clock, which is about five and a
half hours earlier than usual. I will wake up at
seven forty five, and I will be a new man
tomorrow and it will sound like it on the radio. Hey,
we're gonna give away some tickets to go see Redsfast tomorrow.
By the way, TJ. Friedel's on the show Red Centerfielder.

(01:21:51):
We're looking forward to that. And on Thursday. Don't tell Austin,
but we have Andrew Abbott, who I think Austin likes.
But Amelia Pegan will also be here, and I don't
know that Austin's a huge fan of Amilia, but I am.
Both will be with us in studio right around three
thirty TJ Friedel tomorrow. But we've got Reds Fest tickets

(01:22:12):
to give away. Now we're gonna do this in fifteen minutes.
We'll need contestants. If you are thinking of playing stupid Trivia,
by all means, do what you can to get in
at five point twenty. But the tickets are hard tickets.
They're like tickets the way they should be, not that
digital stuff. So you have to come pick them up.

(01:22:35):
Reds Fest starts on Friday. So our promotion staff has
informed me that you basically have two different two hour windows,
excuse me, within which you can come to pick up
the tickets, either between noon and two thirty tomorrow or noon.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
And two thirty on Thursday.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
So if if you if you're like you know what,
I can't get there to pick them up, then Stupid
Trivia is probably not for you. But if you can
get here to pick up the tickets, well, then perhaps
stupid Trivia four Reds Fest tickets could be for you.
At five twenty all right. Let's see here, Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Go ahead. You're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Mike, good afternoon,
How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
You're the man?

Speaker 5 (01:23:21):
Thank you so much, Mo, You're welcome. I have to
do a severe lambasting editorial piece on the Reds when
I get done with football, if you'll allow me, oh,
because I'm sad to help.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
You know, in the business, we call that a teas, Mike,
we call that a tease.

Speaker 11 (01:23:38):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
That's what you do.

Speaker 5 (01:23:39):
You do that all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
You really did it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:43):
What an ideal scenario in Las Vegas for Fernando Mendoza,
who is clearly the best quarterback in the draft this year,
in all facets, personality, throwing the ball, decisions, you name it, football,
to be tutored by Tom Brady. How good can he get?

(01:24:05):
And whenever I hear them talk about Fernando Mendoza, my
mind goes to Fernando Valenzuela. Could you never hear of
too many baseball players? There are especially football players named Fernando,
And I think of the portly little Fernando looking up
at the sky and striking guys out on a regular basis.

(01:24:26):
Do you remember him?

Speaker 14 (01:24:27):
Though?

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Of course, looked up to the heavens every time he
went into his wind up, through a killer screwball, through
a no hitter in nineteen ninety, took the sport by
storm in nineteen eighty one when the Dodgers won the
World Series. I am very familiar with Fernando Mania.

Speaker 5 (01:24:44):
It was a good hitter as well. Was sure he
was a dark good hitter. The other pitcher I remember
looking up towards the heavens was Louis Tian to play
the call correctly. Okay, I'll get off that. I don't
see any way, Miami Beach, Indiana. I don't see anyway
unless somebody gets hurt badly.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Yeah, I don't disagree.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
And Miami has been uber impressive upfront, right, but Miami
did not play a perfect game against Ole Miss. It
felt like their dbs dropped about five different picks. You're
gonna have to play perfect against IU, and you're gonna
have to hope they make the sort of mistakes that
all season long, and obviously in particular these last two

(01:25:33):
games they simply haven't made.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
I think there's gonna be maybe not comparisons.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
This feels like they got to finish the deal, So
which means they got to win on Monday.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
But if they do.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
This, to me, has been the most dominant college team
since LSU in twenty nineteen. Now, team versus team, I
think that LSU team was top to bottom better because yes,
Joe Burrow obviously, but the roster absolutely stacked against Ohio State.
Last year, Ohio State had losses in the regular season,
nothing against some of Nick Saban's later Alabama teams. This

(01:26:09):
feels like the most dominant college football team since LSU
in twenty nineteen. To do what they did in the
Big Ten, to beat Ohio State on a neutral field
that admittedly was in the state of Indiana, to do
what they did to bottle that offense, and then to

(01:26:29):
win these two games in the lopsided manner in which
they have is striking. You know, It's one thing if
Indiana wins the national title, because they get in as
a five seed and they just you know, they win
their first round game at home and then win three
bowl games to go in as the one to win
the Big Ten, to slaughter the bluest of blue bloods, Alabama,

(01:26:53):
to take Oregon behind the.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Woodshed that they did.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
If they finished this off and especially if they do
it in dominant fashion, it's one of the most remarkable
things we've ever seen. And again, man versus man, I
would take that twenty nineteen LSU team. Maybe there's some
bias there, but I think it's a fun discussion to
have to talk about the two.

Speaker 5 (01:27:17):
Yeah, it's pretty close. I heard a guy earlier today
at College Draft Expert talking about the similarities between the
two teams. He never said Fernando was up to Joe's
caliber yet, but he said the potential is certainly there.

Speaker 3 (01:27:34):
You know what I've been thinking about, and I don't
know if I mentioned this on the show. I was
thinking about this on Friday night. If you're a Raiders fan,
and you know, granted, your franchise has screwed up a
lot of things over the last four decades, but remember,
if you're a Bengals fan, what it was like to
watch Joe Burrow play against Oklahoma in the College Football Playoff,

(01:27:56):
the semi final game. The Bengals had already clinched the
first overall pick, and there were a lot of people
who watched that night who, you know, either don't follow
college football closely or really hadn't paid very close attention
to Joe Burrow, who were like, all right, wait a minute,
the guy that we're gonna be drafting is playing in
the semi final. Less watch him and he was awesome.

(01:28:16):
He was awesome. He was also really good against Clemson.
But one of my favorite experiences as a Bengals fan
is actually watching Joe Burrow play for LSU in the
semifinal game against Oklahoma, and you're giddy. And I remember
my wife saying to me, we're watching the game and
she's like, wait a minute, that's gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
Be our quarterback.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
If you're a Las Vegas Raiders fan, I cannot imagine
how much fun it was on Friday night watching the
guy you're gonna take number one overall do what he
did against Oregon.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
That had to have been a blast.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
And so I watched that from the experience of from
the perspective of experience, but also envy, because I know
how much fun that is if you're a fan of
a team that knows you're going to draft a guy
who was torching other teams in high stakes college football games, And.

Speaker 5 (01:29:05):
How cool was it to have a neighbor state so close,
a team so close. It's typically always basketball never ever,
ever in my life talked about in football context. That's
what makes it so exciting and so because it's so
different it is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
Yeah, I think the the what we're doing in college
sports now has at least helped satisfy the need for
newness in college football at the top, because this is
definitely new.

Speaker 5 (01:29:33):
You predicted it because it had gotten stale Clemson Alabama
as a Clemson Alabama, and everybody was tired of it.
I'm sure you were too. Everybody was.

Speaker 11 (01:29:42):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (01:29:42):
Sometimes I didn't even care if I watched the championship
game because I already knew who was gonna win.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
On new characters, and Indiana's a new character.

Speaker 5 (01:29:50):
Yeah, okay, well I had I'll talk to you later
in the week about your picks for the upcoming.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Well, you were going to land base the Reds give
it to me. I got like to minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:30:01):
Okay, So we get Pierre Johnson and I heard Austin
real Watson the pretty impressive stats for the guy the
other day, and I thought cool, because I didn't watch
a lot of Braves games this year. He said he did,
and he compared him to, uh, he's our guy out
of bullpen. We got some that that that that they

(01:30:22):
brought with him from Cleveland to Borrowow. He compared him
to Borrowow but less walks, more strikeouts. My question is,
why would if he was that impressive, why would the
Braves let him go?

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
I have no idea fair question, Yes, sure, yes, Why
why did the market for him not materialize till mid January? Now, look,
I think multiple things can be true. I think he's
probably a solid addition. There's also probably two dozen guys
just like him who are still unsigned, and so it

(01:31:00):
could have it could have been simply is something as
simple as all right, we appreciate what he has done.
We can get somebody who's just as good, but maybe
a little bit cheaper, or just as good, but we
maybe a little bit younger, or we have somebody who's
just as good, who's an internal solution already on our
team or perhaps in our system. But yeah, sure, if

(01:31:23):
he's if he's I think he's a nice addition. At
the end of the day, Mike, I want to know
where the offense is going to come from. They have
not done anything to make their offense better using outside players.

Speaker 5 (01:31:35):
This is what infuriates me.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Why.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
Now, listen, we've been blasting tobn about stuff. Why are
we blessed and crawl about stuff? You know the team
made the playoffs last year.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
For crying out, Well, well, I mean this.

Speaker 11 (01:31:51):
We're wasting cheage, We're wasting all these pictures.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
I do think that the Reds took and deserved a
ton of criticism when the Schwarber thing fell through, and
it felt like, all right, that was their attempt. Like again,
the silliest thing for me was, Okay, you go after Schwarber.
That's fine, it doesn't work out, but you have no
interest in Peter Alonzo. I've actually heard people whose opinions
I value say that Pee Alonzo wouldn't have been a

(01:32:15):
good fit, Like what wouldn't have been a good fit?
The fifty home runs flying over the right field wall.
Where's if you're interested in Schwarber because of the power
that he brings to the table, how are you not
interested in Pee Alonzo?

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
And so the frustrating thing for me is Number one.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
I don't feel like they went to the end of
the earth to go sign Kyle Schwarber. I do not
believe that they wanted to exceed what the Phillies were
giving him. Number two if they were that interested in
signing Kyle Schwarber and they viewed him as the only solution,
then they should have acted like it was the only
solution and gone to the end of the earth to

(01:32:54):
go bring him to Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Number three.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
If that doesn't work out, don't say no to all
the different plan b's that are out there, like Cody
Bellinger is still unsigned. Yeah, there's I do not understand
that lack of consistency, and I know the default is
going to be, Well, Schwarber would have sold tickets, these
other guys wouldn't have. I'm not convinced Kyle Schwarber would
have suddenly sold ten thousand season tickets, But I do

(01:33:19):
think if you're the fan that was gonna buy season
tickets because of Kyle Schwarber, you probably would have been
just as interested had they signed Pete Alonzo. So, all right,
none of these things worked out, and maybe you want
to make excuses. Not you might, but maybe someone wants
to make excuses for the Reds. Well, they don't have
the money. Fine, how is this going to work? How
is the offense going to get better in the absence

(01:33:40):
of adding somebody from the outside genis is it listen.

Speaker 5 (01:33:45):
The Arizona Diamondbacks are not considered a major market. They're
not okay, and they go out and work a deal
for Arnando today. That's supposed to do.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
Yes, Yeah, it feels like Mike, thank you. It is
impossible to look at the Reds right now. You may
feel this team is the same. It's impossible to look
at this team right now and conclude that they're better.
On that note, let's give away some Reds Fest tickets.
We need two contestants to play stupid trivia. Know your
Reds off season acquisitions five one, three, seven, four nine,

(01:34:18):
fifteen thirty. Remember their their paper tickets, so you got
to come pick them up at the radio station. Five one, three, seven,
four nine fifteen thirty will get you in. If you
know your Reds off season acquisitions, you can win Reds
Fest tickets right here Friday or Saturday on ESPN fifteen

(01:34:38):
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station WCKY Cincinnati and iHeartRadio Station Guaranteed
human Esbneen I Hard Radio. After a one year hiatus,
Reds Fest is back at the newly refurbished Cincinnati Convention Center.
Nobody's bought the naming rights to the Convention Center yet?

(01:35:01):
Can can we look into that? Can we see if
ESPN fifteen thirty will buy the naming rights to the
Cincinnati Convention Center anyway, one of those cool ESP fifty
that would be awesome. Yes, staring right at the interstate.
This event features games and activities for kids of all ages,
including interacts with past, current, and future stars. Everything benefits

(01:35:23):
the REDS Community Fund. The hours for REDS Fest you
got Friday at starts at to three o'clock, goes till
ten thirty, and then activities and events on Saturday from
eleven am until six thirty reds dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
Get your tickets for Reds Fest or win them here.

Speaker 3 (01:35:40):
We have a contestant tarn Are you it's been like
seven months since we played stupid trivia?

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
I'm excited? Are you excited? Like that's I think that's
the name we came up with, stupid trivia. Stupid trivia.

Speaker 3 (01:35:51):
Yeah, we kind of it kind of describes perfectly describes,
you know, exactly what it is, stupid trivia. The contestants
aren't stupid. The questions are just so we're clear, all right, Paul,
It's nice to have you. Are you excited to have
the opportunity to win tickets to Redsfest.

Speaker 5 (01:36:09):
Absolutely, very good.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
Have you been following all of the ins and outs
of the Reds off season? Of course, yeah, it's been
a lot. You probably have had to take time off
of work because you've just been inundated with all the
Reds player acquisition news. All right, Paul, I'm gonna ask
you five questions about Red's off season acquisitions. If you
get three of them correct, you're gonna go to Reds Fest.

(01:36:33):
If not, some guy named Josh's Okay, okay, all right,
here we go. Here is Here is question number one, Terrey.
Do we have any music? Any sound effects?

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Yes? It should be plain now oh now there they
are there, they are very good. We caught this music
from ABC. All right, here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
As you probably know, Paul JJ Bledat was acquired by
the Reds this offseason. In his illustrious big league career,
his first career home run came against the Reds at
Great American Ballpark in twenty twenty two. Who did he
hit it off of? Was it Aluis Castillo, b Tyler
Mallley or c Luis Sessa?

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
Was it Louis Castillo?

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
Guess Luis Castillo, the now three time All Star twice
with the Reds, served up a gopher ball to JJ
Blede in twenty twenty two. Congratulations, you are one for one,
two more to go, Josh. I'm sorry, Paul. Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
I'm ready? All right?

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
Last month, the Reds traded minor leaguer Ethan O'Connell to
the Marlins for this guy? Was it a Jeff Conine,
b Dane Myers or c Nick Gordon?

Speaker 5 (01:37:45):
Uh?

Speaker 7 (01:37:45):
Nick Gordon?

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
Was it Nick Gordon?

Speaker 5 (01:37:47):
Tern?

Speaker 7 (01:37:49):
No? No.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
In one of the bigger moves of the offseason, Ethan
O'Connell was sent to Miami in exchange for Dane Myers.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
You are one for two. You have to get two
of the next three, correct. Are you ready? I'm ready?
All right? New Reds bullpen Let me try that again.

Speaker 3 (01:38:07):
New Reds bullpen acquisition Caleb Ferguson has allowed thirty two
big league homers. He's good at keeping the ball in
the ballpark. This is the only current Red to take
him deep A Matt McClain, be Ellie Dela Cruz or
c Spencer Steer? Spencer ste Was it Spencer Steer Tarran No,

(01:38:29):
Ellie Dela Cruz took him yard in twenty twenty three.
That's okay, You've got to get these last two, Paul.
I could hear the confidence in your voice starting to shake.
It's gonna be okay. I believe in you.

Speaker 10 (01:38:41):
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
Question number four. The Reds have a new third base coach.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
One of the biggest acquisitions of the off season for
the Reds be the third base coach, Willie Harris. Willie
Harris won a World Series as a player with this franchise.
Was it a the Boston Red Sox, be the Washington
Nationals or see the Chicago White Sox?

Speaker 5 (01:39:05):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Man, uh the White Sox? Was it the White Sox?

Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
Tarran Yes, And in that postseason two thousand and five,
Willy Harris won a World Series with the White Sox.
He batted one thousand in the postseason, went one for
one in the American League Championship Series, went one for
one in the World Series.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
Willie Harris has a ring.

Speaker 5 (01:39:24):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
It all comes down to this. Are you ready? I'm ready.
Pierce Johnson was signed by the Reds this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
He pitched in the postseason for two teams prior to
signing with the Reds, one of them the Atlanta Braves,
for whom he pitched in October in twenty twenty three.
In twenty twenty four, who's the other team that Pierce
Johnson has appeared in the postseason? Four said a the
Padres be the Mets or see the Astros.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
Uh Padre is the Padres. Yes, Paul comes back and wins.
Let's fa tickets.

Speaker 15 (01:40:00):
Pow.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
Congratulations, You're gonna go to a Reds fest and you're
gonna have the time of your life. You will have
a chance to meet JJ Blede and Pierce Johnson and
Dane Meers and Caleb Ferguson and Willie Harris, among many,
many many other players, coaches, staff and alumni. Congratulations, Paul,
stay on hold and Tarn will get all of your information.

Speaker 1 (01:40:24):
Thank you, Moll.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
You're very welcome, very good.

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
It had been a while since we played stupid trivia,
and I think all would agree very much worth the wait.
Twenty nine away from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Twenty six from six This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. Moager. Thank you for listening today. The
Cintas Center is going to be the home of an awesome,

(01:40:48):
awesome event. The inaugural Oald Kemba Credit Union MLK Classic
is gonna be at Cintas Center this Monday. This is
an event that features eight boys varsity teams from Greater
Cincinnati at Northern Kentucky and some of the region's best
high school talent. Four great games, four awesome matchups. And
here to tell us more is our buddy Rich Newman Rich,
Happy New Year, Good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
How are you.

Speaker 7 (01:41:11):
Doing great? Mo?

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
Thanks for having me on. Happy New Year to you too.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
All right, tell us what's going to be happening at
the Centas Center on Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
Well, in order, Kemba Credit Union MLK Classic is taking place.

Speaker 12 (01:41:25):
And this is a.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
Mirror image of our Beacon Holiday Hartwood Classic. So many
teams now go out of state between Christmas and New
Year's but want to play in the Cintas Center. And
we decided to create this event with the help of
Dan Sutton, the President's CEO of Kemba. And we've got
a great field.

Speaker 7 (01:41:49):
It's a strong field.

Speaker 2 (01:41:51):
All right, rolls to the field for me.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
Number one ranked in the state, D one undefeated Lakota
wet versus the Hamilton Big Blue starts at twelve noon,
Ryle versus Oldlan County, Kentucky near Louisville at one forty
five pm, Lakota East versus the Middletown Midies at three

(01:42:16):
thirty pm, and the Saintex Bombers are in the nightcap
against the Colonels, also from across the river in Park
Hills at five point fifteen. Great matchups.

Speaker 3 (01:42:28):
Great matchups, four great matchups. First tip off is at noon.
By the way, there are daily passes available right now
in advance at MLK dash Classic dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
How do you how do you arrive at these eight schools?

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
Well, it was pretty much their request to play at
least the home teams to play in the Centas Center.
I created one neutral site matchup, so to speak, between
Ryle and Oldham County, but West and East and Covecat
all relocated their home games to the Centas Center, and

(01:43:05):
next year, based on what I've already heard from teams,
there is going to be a demand for a second
day on the MLK weekend two.

Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
All right, And what you're looking for is for the
participating schools to kind of get their fans worked up
and the communities worked up, because you have a little
bit of a sales competition, the ticket sales competition tell
me about that we do.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
We're offering to the school that sells the most tickets
online and in advance five hundred dollars donation to their
booster club or the charity of their choice, just to
obviously gin up some support amongst the different schools. And
then there's also a really good promotion with the Xavier

(01:43:53):
season ticket holders. Anyone who buys a daily pass for
the event that isn't a Xavier season ticket holder will
donate fifty percent of those ticket revenues to the All
for One Fund, A.

Speaker 3 (01:44:08):
Very cool The event is this Monday. First tip off
is at twelve o'clock. Lakota West and Hamilton Ryle versus
Oldham County is going to tip off right around one
forty five, then Lakota East at Middletown at three point thirty,
followed by the finale Sanax and CVCATH at five point fifteen.
Daily passes available right now thirteen dollars go to Mlkdashclassic

(01:44:32):
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
Is there anything else, Richard that we need to know?

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
I don't think so We've covered it and the only
thing I'd add is. I appreciate all the support of
our sponsors and our media partners, especially iHeart you have
been wonderful, you know, having me on for all these
different events, and it's much appreciated because it's a it's
a community gathering, and it's an opportunity to really highlight

(01:44:58):
the outstanding high school basketball here in Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
No question.

Speaker 3 (01:45:03):
Monday tip off at noon MLK Classic and great venue
for a great games, shall be a great day of
high school basketball action.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Richard, thanks as always, Thank you appreciate it. You're very welcome.
That's our guy, rich Newman again.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
Tickets are available right now thirteen dollars passes Mlkdash Classic
dot com. The inaugural Kemba Credit Union MLK Classic at
the Centa Center on Monday. It is a twenty one
away from US six o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 16 (01:45:39):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

Speaker 17 (01:45:45):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. The UC Health Women's
Sports Medicine Program provides specialized care for a female athletees
at all levels. Schedule an appointment online at chealth dot com.
Northbound two seventy five the off ramp to west bound
seventy four currently closed off. That's from an accident on
eastbound Route one two at Town Boulevard. Another accident that

(01:46:07):
one west of seventy five, and stop and go traffic
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Speaker 20 (01:51:40):
Getting ESPN fifteen thirty from iHeartRadio, John Moran's.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
Going to be traded? Cave an answer. You had a question,
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Quarter to six ESPN fifteen thirty. Anything you may have
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(01:52:15):
of this show are as always a service of Long
Necks Sports Grill. The big sports story today involves the
Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Tomlin to step down after nineteen seasons.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
It is on one level. Remarkable that Zach Taylor.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Is, having just finished up year seven, is the dean
of AFC North coaches and like legitimately kind of like
spotlight now on him, right because I don't know who
the next head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers is going
to be. I don't know who their next quarterback is
going to be. That feels like a that feels like
a franchise that is kind of stuck. I'm not sure

(01:52:59):
they can rebuild, but they feel kind of stuck. The
Cleveland Browns very much feel stuck, and the quarterback situation there,
Deshaun Watson is still a part of that franchise. Now,
whoever walks into the Ravens gig is going to get
Lamar Jackson, but a team that at least in the
postseason and certainly a team that this year dramatically underachieved.

(01:53:21):
But you're Zach Taylor. You coach in a division with
these two franchises that have in one case Baltimore moved
on from probably a Hall of Fame coach, certainly a
Super Bowl winning coach, and then another one where the
Super Bowl winning, probably Hall of Fame head coach walked away.
You're kind of the last man left standing. Dude, we

(01:53:41):
need more than six and eleven. We need more than
being on the outside looking. And I mentioned this before.
I think it is striking. And you know, we probably
all know Pittsburgh Steelers fans, and maybe some of them
that you know have some of the same complaints. But
I think if you listen to sports talk radio in Pittsburgh,

(01:54:02):
or if you looked at Steeler's Twitter, for lack of
a better way of putting it, it is striking how
so many of the same criticisms of the Bengals are
echoed by people who complain about the Pittsburgh Steelers, the
mom and pop franchise, family run organization, stubborn, cheap, outdated facilities,

(01:54:25):
lack of innovation, family maybe being a little bit too involved,
being too unwilling to change at times, two unwilling to
make changes with people like the head coach. Now, the
way it's branded is the Steelers and Bengals are too
completely diametrically different franchises. And yes, obviously what one has

(01:54:49):
accomplished in its history dwarfs the other, but in terms
of how they're run, I'm not really sure they're that different.
Not really sure they're all are that many differences in
how the two franchises are run. And I think if
you listen to how people complain about the Bengals of
what some of their very for the most part legitimate

(01:55:10):
gripes are, and what some of the gripe Steelers have
Steelers fans have with their favorite team, they sound and
read almost exactly the same. I think it's been interesting
over the last couple of years watching the Pittsburgh Steelers,
especially in postseason games. And this is not solely a
reaction to what happened last night where the Houston Texans

(01:55:33):
defense just swarmed Aaron Rodgers and swarmed that Pittsburgh offense.
But I think there have been two common themes watching
that team from afar and frankly, yes, watching that team
through a lens of dislike actively root against the Pittsburgh
Steelers as most Bengals fans do, as all Bengals fans do.

(01:55:56):
But it has been interesting to me that this Steelers brand,
which is they bring the fight to you and they
out physical you, and they'll beat you up and they're tough.
I think if you've watched them in big games in
recent years, that hasn't so much been the case last night,

(01:56:17):
and I think the Texans just have a better team.
Who knows what that game looks like.

Speaker 2 (01:56:21):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
Stroud was eliciting jokes on social media about him throwing
the game last night.

Speaker 2 (01:56:26):
That's how bad he was.

Speaker 3 (01:56:28):
If had they got in the Texans remotely decent quarterback play,
that game's more lopsided than it was. And it ended
up being pretty damn lobsided. But Houston just punked them,
just pushed them around, imposed themselves physically on the defensive line.
We're gonna rush for drop seven and the coverage good luck.

(01:56:50):
I think if you go back and watch last year's
Steelers Ravens playoff game, I think if you go back
and watch the Bengals Steelers game Week eighteen last year,
which really didn't matter to the Pittsburgh Steelers, you saw
a team that didn't do as much pushing around, and
so you know, the brand, the Mike Tomlin brand, the

(01:57:11):
Pittsburgh Steelers brand hasn't necessarily meshed with what they actually
put on the field. I also think whether it's been
Kenny Pickett, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, justin fields, the remains
of Ben Roethlisberger, there has been something about that offense
that year in and year out for a while, looks

(01:57:33):
the same no matter what. The last night's Pittsburgh offensive
issues were mainly a function of Houston's very good and
very physical defense or man, there were times, and Troy
Aikman said it on the broadcast last night on ESPN,
they're rushing four and it felt like they were Russian
six or seven.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
But if you've watched them, and I haven't watched.

Speaker 3 (01:57:54):
Every Pittsburgh Steelers game, every Pittsburgh Steelers snap, but if
you've watched him over these lasts how many years, five
six years, it has felt like no matter who the
quarterback is, no matter who the play caller is, coordinator,
some of the personnel, that the offense looks almost exactly
the same. And so you know, there's we say this
all the time on this shows. There's often in life

(01:58:14):
room for multiple truths. Here you had this uber successful,
very well respected, highly accomplished coach whose time it did feel,
it did feel like it ran its course. While at
the same time, I don't know how, I don't know
how given where they are in the purgatory, they kind

(01:58:35):
of feel like they're in. I'm not sure how their
offensive issues change by swapping out coaches.

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
We will see.

Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
It's going to be one of the more the Pittsburgh
Steelers have had in my lifetime.

Speaker 2 (01:58:45):
Two coaching searches had three dudes. It's nineteen sixty nine
and so like.

Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
It'll be different watching the Ravens next year play without
John Harball, and even more different seeing the Pittsburgh Steelers
without Mike Tomlin, and just different entirely thinking about those
two teams, those two teams playing against each other without
those two head coaches, but those two teams existing in
the Bengals Division without those.

Speaker 2 (01:59:12):
Two head coaches. It's different. It's weird. I think.

Speaker 3 (01:59:14):
The other takeaway from an AFC perspective, and we touched
on this a little bit yesterday, the Texans dominate on defense.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Their offense is inconsistent at best.

Speaker 3 (01:59:27):
They're gonna play a Patriots team that feels largely untested,
not a lot of explosiveness to their offense. The other
AFC game, you've got Denver, who's a home dog, opened
as a home dog at least at home, is the
one seed over Buffalo, a Bills team that at times
this season has seemed broken offensively against a woefully at

(01:59:48):
times inconsistent Denver offense.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
One of those four teams is gonna win the AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:59:54):
Holy hell, that's hard to say if you're a fan
of the Cincinnati Bengals, watching the way the playoffs played out,
watching the way season played out in that half of
the league. Have they just like remotely fixed their defense?
Who knows that they're playing this weekend? They get a
large takeaway is teams closed with what their strength was?

(02:00:16):
The Texans did, the Bears did, the Bills did? That
will probably continue this weekend.

Speaker 2 (02:00:24):
Tomorrow on the show TJ.

Speaker 3 (02:00:25):
Friedel's Gonna Join Us, I will have come off sleeping
about fifteen consecutive hours, and I can't wait for that.
Rick Brooring as well. On Xavier and NKU basketball, We're done.
Thanks to Taran Plan for producing, and most importantly, thank
you to you for listening.

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
Have an awesome night.

Speaker 3 (02:00:43):
We'll talk to you tomorrow at three oh five on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.