1/20/26 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, that's us fie minutes after three.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegar, Thank you for listening.
Show previews available right now at Molegar on Twitter thanks
to share Facts Credit Union. I am thrilled that you
are here. Thanks to Chad Brendel for pinching yesterday. If
you had a free day weekend, hopefully you enjoyed it.
Weeks off to a good start. Paul Danner Junior from

(00:25):
The Athletic is here. Later on, we'll get to Elie
Dela Cruz and Tito Francona and the Reds offense, and
we'll talk to Miami and Kent State point shaving with
our guys Stewart W. Penrose from Manila Law Group, and
of course, thoughts on the college football Playoff National Championship
tilt last night won by the Indiana Hoosiers. If you're

(00:45):
an IU fan and IU grad, congratulations, it's the coolest
story in sports history. We'll get to all of that
a little bit later on, but Paul's here from the
Athletic and the Growler podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
How is it going? It's going great?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Do you know when I was in college, I did
a thesis on point shaving in college basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Really.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
It was sparked because I thought that the leading scorer
for OU's basketball team was shaving points and I wanted
to try to expose it. Yeah, that was not the
case as far as I could tell, although I had
my theories. But I did learn a lot about the
history of point shaving and headache Smith and Kentucky from
back in the fifties. Of course, now you can fill
ten times as many books just in the last couple

(01:26):
of years compared to what there was then. But if
you want to know any more, I've got lots of background.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Here is the thesis available? Is it published? Is something
I can access? I mean, I hope did you mention
your Did you mention the OU player by name?

Speaker 4 (01:41):
I would like not to say his name, but if
you look up the leading scorers from two thousand and
one to two thousand and three at Ohi University you
could probably figure out now.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
So you could be my point shaving guy. I mean,
is that the beat you want?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
At this point? I might take it understood, but yeah, no,
I'm here for whatever you need.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
A little bit later on, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell
you the move. I wish the Bengals weren't a position
to make a little tease.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
That is good. You're no, I'm not. But but in
that instance, maybe I peaked your interest. Yes, I am
interested in that.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Perhaps the audiences as well. There's a lot of stuff.
We got a lot to get to. Yeah, let's start
with the striking contrast, which is something we talked about
a little bit on your podcast this morning. So the
Buffalo Bills they got Josh Allen. Josh Allen's an MVP quarterback.
Josh Allen's an a lister, Josh Allen's a star. He
is one of the faces of the league. The Buffalo

(02:38):
Bills haven't won a Super Bowl with him, so they
said to the coach, thanks for everything, Deuces, see you.
The Baltimore Ravens have a two time MVP quarterback, Lamar Jackson,
bona fide star right this year. Maybe not himself, perhaps
more physically compromised than he was letting on. He did
miss games, but Lamar Jackson is a star. He was
paired with a coach who was quickly hired by the

(03:01):
New York Giants, a guy who might be in the
Hall of Fame one day, but the Baltimore Ravens said,
we can't wait anymore. See you, John Harball, Thanks, enjoy
New Jersey. The Cincinnati Bengals have a quarterback like that. Granted,
not been an MVP, but he has played in a
Super Bowl, but he's been an MVP finalist twice, two
time comeback Player of the Year, bona fide star, has
a claim to the title of best quarterback in the sport.

(03:23):
And the Cincinnati Bengals said, we're cool, Zach, You're good.
You two are together. That contrast, to me is striking absolutely.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I mean, it's been interesting.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
You have the AFC had this this thing going with
Mahomes and Reed and then Zach, Taylor and Burrow and
Harbaugh and Jackson and of course Allan and McDermott. I mean,
for the longest time these were that wasn't changing. And
I even right before at the end of this season,
we were talking about how interesting is when you look
at the coaches about how these quarterbacks have kept their

(03:56):
coaches connections going. Really, whatever's been going on there, there's
no doubt about it. What is happening now in the
upheaval in the league and the ten open jobs and
the high profile coaches that have left. Now with franchise quarterbacks,
it only does what everything seems to be doing. The

(04:16):
theme right now is okay, you want to be your
team continuity.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
That's the thing. This is it.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
That pressure could not be more on everything to happen
this year because you're just not going to get now.
Who knows, it's the Bengals, so whatever, it could go
on forever, but like it does, it does really feel
like this time like this is it. I mean, this
is your It's either you can do it or you're
going to be like the rest of these. And the

(04:44):
difference I will say when you analyze what's happening here
one coming off the year where you didn't have Burrow
for the whole time, so who knows what it looks like.
But that said, I think your job ends up being
so much about managing your quarterback relationship and managing up.

(05:05):
This job has since Marvin Lewis showed up day one,
been about managing up and helping everything get as much
done as you can and deal with all of that.
I think Zach Taylor has a good relationship obviously with
ownership to still be here at this point. Yeah, and
obviously with Joe Burrow to still be here at this point,
I think those are the two things that John Harbaugh

(05:27):
and Sean McDermott did not have and it cost them
now for whatever reason. How much should that matter? We
can all debate that, but if you're asking me the
difference in this particular moment, I think that got those
guys and at some point, yes, you have to win.
They were there, you know, longer than Zach's been here,
but it's understood at this point. I mean, you only

(05:50):
get so many shots when you have the franchise quarterback,
when you have him in full But yeah, that man
the pile. It just keeps everything that's happened, everything that
has happened in recent years, the conjecture from Joe, the
movement in the league, the A division that now will
have all new head coaches around you, the AFC and upheaval.

(06:12):
It's just Zach Taylor and Andy Reid are the only
guys that have really been around here. All of the
continuity that they're selling and bringing back, and the support statement.
Everything that has happened since the season has ended has pointed.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
To extreme pressure cooker.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Of twenty twenty six season, and this is it, man,
because otherwise you're going to go the same way that
the rest of the league is going.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
We will see ultimately what the result of the coaching
searches in the three AFC North cities are. But is
there a world because I think there is where the
Bengals are considered AFC North favorites before the season.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Yeah, well, because who I mean, Pittsburgh is not a
good job. No, Pittsburgh is a great job theoretically in
a you can keep this job for a long time.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
But all of those coaches had almost immediate success. So
when I say, all, let's talk about Cower and Tomlin,
they they they lived off the instant success they had.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, that's part of it.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
And also when you take that job, I think you're
the reason that it was time there is it's hard
reset time in Pittsburgh. They got to figure out a
way to say the rosters old, the quarterback situation needs
to get a long term solution. If you're if you're
cutting ties, if the Tomlin move happens now that is
you know, let's reset the game. Okay, And so that's

(07:33):
not a great job. How is a new per new
coach gonna mesh with Lamar Jackson and both like, I
don't know, it's obviously not gonna be Cleveland that you're
gonna be so so yeah, I mean I don't to
this in this moment. They should be Yes, this should
be it is setting up for them to make their run.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I mean it's.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
This is this is what you ask for and so yeah,
can you should they? Yes, they should be favorites to
win the AFC North from the get go, which does
what only adds more pressure. Again, like all of this,
all of this is, it's all this one pile. This
is what it all is. It's like, okay, twenty twenty
six or all bets are off with absolutely everything happening internally.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
I was watching people fight on the internet, and I'm
as i've gotten older, I'm more of a watch people
fight than i am jump into the fray I enjoy sometimes,
not that often. But I was watching people fight about
Mike Tomlin, fighting over whether or not he would would
take the Bengals job if it comes open next year,
and the one person was making the argument that there's

(08:40):
no way that Mike Tomlin would want to work for
the Brown family, and I thought about that, and I said,
you know, these are two family run franchises, And when
I read stuff out of Pittsburgh, or when I listen
to shows like this out of Pittsburgh, it sounds like
the Bengals are being talked about, or I read some
of the same things I read about the Bengals that
outdated facilities and mom and pop franchise and stubborn and

(09:04):
obstinate and set in their ways and frugal to a fault.
This is not for me a conversation about Mike Tomlin.
But you talked about the Steelers job. I believe this.
Say what you want about the prestige of that franchise
and what the Steelers historically have accomplished. Those two franchises
have more in common at the ownership level than I
think people realize.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
The biggest thing that differentiates the two of them is
the history. That's it.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, I mean, at this point, if you want to
look back in the last fifteen years, the last ten years,
in the recent history, the franchises have operated similarly. They've
had similar problems. Mike Tomlin is going through the same
thing now that Marvin Lewis went through.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I mean, this is.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Very, very similar paths. They have a similar ownership group
that is adjusting and trying to figure out how to
act and survive and sustain in an NFL world that
is changing what ownership looks like around them, for better
or for worse, right, And I just I think there's
adjustments in that. I think they there's there is a

(10:08):
lot more similarities. I think you're exactly right, but the
history and the respect that comes with what they have
been and and I think a way that they go
about certain things, but they do things that they this
is the Steeler way that I equivocally do not agree
with in terms of the money they spend to older players, right,

(10:28):
the heavy lean into like just defense all the time
and not realizing it's an offensive league, and in the
churning of the quarterback situation.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Like, there's a lot of stuff that they do that
they have.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Always done that I don't necessarily agree with the same
way they would be things that you would look at
the way the Bengals do it that the normal NFL
franchise is not going to agree with in that respect,
I think you're right, Like they operate in distinct kind
of unique ways, their own unique ways, but unique ways
to the bigger NFL landscape.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Watching people on the internet, if you do it in
small doses, can bring an amount of joy to you
that I think is rare when you when you when
you go online.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think I like it most when you
do jump in that is kind of yes, because you
it's clearly reluctantly, but it's clear also that you have
a joke so good you just have to get it off. Yeah,
you know, you're like, I just I you know it's
not in your best interest. Like every time I see

(11:30):
you do it, I'm like, he knows he shouldn't do
this right now. Yes, but you're like, but the joke's
too good. Yeah, get passed on the joke. And that's
what I respect about you. When you got the good joke,
you're willing to get it off no matter what the
fallout could be.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
We have finally found something you respect about me. So
Dan Pitcher is a valued member of the Cincinnati Bengals,
yet they may let him leave for the same job.
This doesn't make any sense. We'll talk about it when
we come back. Paul Danner Junior's here from The Athletic
and The Growler podcast. Follow him at Day Junior. The
latest edition of the Growler Podcast released just a short

(12:04):
while ago.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Seventeen minutes after three. Paul's here till four.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
We are here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station WCKY, Cincinnati and iHeartRadio station Garan teed Human
ESPN fifteen thirty. I heard radio twenty two minutes after
three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty on Moeger. Thanks

(12:27):
for listening. Paul Dayner Junior is here from The Athletic
and the Growler Podcast. He has written about the list
of possible cat casualties, and we're going to get to
that here in a bit. Go read it at the
Athletic dot com. Let's spend some time on Dan Pitcher. Okay,
you're big on Dan Pitcher. Man, you think Dan Pitcher

(12:49):
should be interviewed by all these teams who need a
head coach was interviewed by one.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, you're a big Dan Pitcher guy, right.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
You are?

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I feel I shall be I know we's going. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
The Bengals like Dan Pitcher. Yes, they value Dan Pitcher.
They think Dan Pitcher is key to their success. They
view him as an important part of the organization, So
why then would they let him leave for a lateral
move interviewing with the Buccaneers to be their offensive coordinator.
He's the offensive coordinator here. Now I know the answer is, well,

(13:23):
he wants to call plays? Cool, why not just let
him call plays here?

Speaker 6 (13:29):
Then?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
So I don't think it's that simple.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Oh, I don't think it's as simple to say he
wants to call plays, Okay. I mean, we've seen plenty
of coaches get hired that didn't call plays. I think,
and this is me. Dan has never said this to me,
but this is my observation on the way things are going.
I can only imagine a frustration with the last two

(13:53):
head coaching cycles. Sure for him, I think there has
always been a shroud of dis credit around coaches underneath
Joe Burrow or are in the orbit of Joe Burrow.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
The Burrow's doing this right. Coaches don't get much credit.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
I haven't gotten much credit for anything here, maybe rightfully,
so I don't know. I'm not really here to differentiate
that perception is reality.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Does Brian Callahan's lack of success in Tennessee don't help?
It certainly doesn't help, but it doesn't run under the
degree that I fear it.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Might maybe some, but I think I think there is
a degree Dan wants to be a head coach, as
anyone in his position would sure, and I think there
is some degree of maybe getting out from the shadow
of Joe Burrow into a different offense, into a different
atmosphere and showing off things there could be helpful to

(14:46):
your career. And Zach Taylor and this staff would say,
we don't want to stop you from seeing what your
you know, progress in your career can be look into, right,
especially with the acknowledgment that if he did, they they

(15:06):
have a easy one to one potentially available in Frank Callahan.
But that's my point is I don't think they want
to be restrictive of what Dan feels like is maybe
the best path for him to get to his career goal. Okay,
of telling you no, you're here now, you can't. I
don't want you going anywhere else. You're here, don't try

(15:29):
to find what's what you might think is best for you.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
And by the way, there's I'm sure a lot of
organizations that would operate that way, perhaps this one in
the past.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
One has in the past, I think in certain situations
in certain times if you feel like any one of
these things are true. You can't advance when you're in
Cincinnati because of everything. You can't advance because you don't
call plays. You can't advance because of the shadow of
Joe Burrow. You can't advance because you just can't stay
in that position for too many years, Like the league

(16:00):
turns over for a reason, you either get promoter or fired.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
If you're in there too long, it becomes why are
you in there that long? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Okay, So I think there is a not wanting to
let him feel like he doesn't have a chance to advance.
Go see what you can do, make see if that
is a better job for you, right, and then come
back and let's see what you think is the final
decision for you.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Right.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I don't think they want to feel like he should
feel restricted being in this position. I think that's part
of it. So it's more than just I want to
call plays. Obviously that's gonna be a portion of this
because he doesn't, and that's you know, if we're gonna
call him the non play calling oh.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
See, whatever.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
But I think it's about career growth and the path
to what he wants most and not wanting to restrict
that in somebody that works for you is a big
part of this.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
So Dan Pictuer if he leaves, obviously they could just
bring back Brian Callahan, which sounds great. But what if
Brian Callahan gets a job somewhere else and Dan Pittrick
gets a job somewhere else. Yeah, well that's then what's playing. Yeah,
it's a terrible scenario. They would figure that out.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
There's a list, I mean, there's always you always have
a list that you compile in every off season and
some downtime pete network of people that you know they're
not I mean, yeah, the timing is tricky here, Yeah,
in terms of what there's but the timing is tricky
for everybody in the entire league right now with this
many jobs and this many staffs being put together and

(17:32):
disassembled and trying to get read like this is something
that we haven't seen in the league in a little
while where you're.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Gonna have this much movement.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
So yeah, everybody's sitting in here trying to watch the
timing of things. I think Brian Callahan would like to
come back here as a number one landing spot. I
think he's interested in a lot of different things, but
this one certainly makes the most sense.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
For Zach Taylor.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
It certainly makes the most sense in a world where
they are so they're just they're so pot committed to
continuity at this point, like like to use poker terms
like this is it like they're in there's no getting
out of the continuity train.

Speaker 6 (18:13):
Now.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's what they're doing. That's their angle.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, so you're not gonna like go away from that
in the offensive coordinator position, assuming you can, you can
make the timing work. That is, you know, the I
guess the tricky part of that. And if Brian gets
a better opportunity, which very well could happen, but you know,
they certainly hope that it doesn't. I think there's a
thought that this is the best opportunity for the Bengals
and for him if it came to that at all.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Sure, but is.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
There any validity to the idea that, Okay, if you
want to escape Joe Burrow's very large shadow, for lack
of a better way of putting it, call the plays
next year bring out something in this quarterback, in this
offense that maybe we haven't been able to tap into
nearly as much. And the credit will come. No, he

(18:59):
did that? Yeah, what else?

Speaker 2 (19:01):
What happened?

Speaker 4 (19:02):
In twenty twenty four, Dan Pitcher came in, took over
Jamar Chase won a triple crown. They were doing things
they hadn't done before. They were they evolved in a
nice way, right, And what did he get?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
No head coach interviewed It wasn't calling place. People love
to fixate on the call and place thing.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I mean, that's fine, is it? Something is?

Speaker 4 (19:23):
I don't think that's the only I think that's how
everybody gets hired.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I mean, there's not like.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
It's silly for us as fans to fixate on that.
I think so when it comes to any coach, you know,
because you've heard it with Eric b Enemy for instance, Right,
well he doesn't call plays right, and so like the
public perception is that works.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
I think it's a piece of the pie. I do
not think it's anywhere near the most important part. I
think being able to lead, I think, understanding how to
connect with people. I think understanding how to properly build
a culture, what winning actually looks like like all of
that stuff. You know, it's sort of like I mean,
to me, it's kind of like when you rush the
baseball manager for the decisions they make with their bullpen.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
And I don't mean that as a joking way, but
I want to see you know where.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
It's like, so much of being a baseball manager is
just managing the personalities through one hundred and sixty two
games and getting people liking coming to work and all
that stuff, right, But what's most seen by fans and
complained about is stuff that happens in game decision making
that blows up in their face. Now, that is a
part of your job, but it is not the biggest

(20:28):
part of your job. And I think in the way
that they do it here, I it's not like he
has no say in the calling of plays and the
execution of all of that. But yeah, that's part, but
I understand that. Yeah, would you love if that was Also,
if you're an owner and you're looking at your head
coach candidates, you'd love to have every single one of

(20:50):
those thirty boxes checked. If one of them doesn't call plays.
You know, maybe the box is bigger for some than others,
but it's one of many.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Boxes you would love. Everybody would love their resume to
have every box check.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
They don't all Okay, maybe that's one that he feels
like he needs. Maybe the shadow of Joe Burrow is
what he feels like he needs. Maybe he just wants
to know what's out there, right. Maybe he just won't
to see if he can make a little more money.
Maybe he likes the sun, Okay, Like I don't know,
there's lots of reasons. Maybe he too is sick of losing.

(21:25):
Maybe there's lots of reasons why you would consider looking
into your other options elsewhere. And I think it's fine
that they would sit there and say, go look into
what you can get.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
And I yeah, on a human level idea, I greatly
appreciate that, especially in a year where there's a lot
of a lot of pressure on this staff to win.
I can appreciate them saying, look, if what's best for
you is taking a lateral move, so to speak, because
you think that's best for you, we're not going to
get in your way. Like, I think that's cool as hell.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
I mean, Dave Canalis, Liam Kuhn too. The last two
successful coordinators in Tampa became head coaches after one year.
Dan might have been able to get that job before
and instead right, and so maybe there's a regret in
there with Tampa or other places. Let's let's see. I mean,

(22:16):
let's see how that all plays out. I'm just saying,
like I understand looking at that gig if you want
to be a head coach and saying that could be
a nice step there. For me, that's not lateral.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
So what you do is you let him go coach
the Bucks and then when the Bengals go eight to
nine next year, Dan Pitcher come back. I mean, you're
do you not think that ultimate continuity moved? I mean
that would certainly be.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
On the table.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
I mean, who knows, right, I just I don't necessarily
believe the Bengals are going eight to nine next year.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Before anybody gets mad at me, well, but I mean
it's on the table. Sure is there a number that's not? Yeah,
they're not. It's like this year like a high number. Maybe.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
So they went six and eleven. That's as bad as
it's ever gonna get. They're never gonna lose clip that
Taran clip it. They will never do. This year was awful.
This is as crappy, as miserable, as unfunny Bengals season
as has happened in my life. They still stumble their
way to six wins. They will never with joke in

(23:25):
the Joe Burrow era. This is my bold hot take.
If you want to go, they'll never win fewer than six.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
As long as he's healthy all year. You're accounting for
Joe Burrow not missing more than a month.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Okay, if he doesn't play a game, you know it's
preseason injury. And if Joe Burrow plays half the games,
they will still win five. I'm sorry, they will win
more than five. Yeah, it's not a very high bar
to clear.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
No, I don't see many worlds where if Joe Burrow
plays during a season that they go under five hundred
or less in games where he's the starter and finishes.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Like, I'm with you on that. I just you know,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
So there are numbers, in my opinion that are off
the table, the ones below six.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, I don't take those off. No, I mean because
I we don't know that Joe will be healthy. Like,
but I know what you're saying. Three of us six
years he and the inability to handle his injury. I
get injuries when they have happened. That's it is twenty
six away from four o'clock. So you have your list
of guys the Bengals could move on from, and I'm

(24:36):
okay if they don't move on from any of them,
but there's one that I wish they were in a
position to. We'll talk about him when we come back
to sports headlines as well. Paul Danner Junior is with
us till four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. No one covers the Bengals like ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Sports Headlines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of
lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee credit approval from their family
to yours for life, kelseyshev dot Com. Tonight, the nationally
ranked and undefeated Miami RedHawks hit the road to battle
Kent State. The Golden Flashes have one loss in MAC
play this year. They lost by two to Central Michigan.

(25:17):
Travis Steel's team, looking for a season opening twentieth consecutive victory.
Tip off is at seven o'clock tonight. What else do
we have? We have a college basketball in the area.
The Indiana Hoosiers visit third graded Michigan, and Ohio State
will host Minnesota hockey this evening. The Columbus Bluejackets, who
have won four consecutive games, skate against the Ottawa Senators.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
If the Jackets lose, the rules.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Say they have to fire the head coach, because they
fire head coaches.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like every other week.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Paul Tanner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
is here. I wish we could have podcast the last
conversation we were having off air.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
No, that's okay, we probably don't need to do that.
By the way, I can tell you how long Miami's
unbeaten streak is gonna last.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
Okay, they're gonna have a heartbroken on Valentine's heartbroken on
Valentine's Day, goes into Oxford.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Probably not. They're actually not very good this year. No,
we've got more point shaving.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
It's possible they might need to bring back the leading
scorer from two thousand and one.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Three.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
You you did the list of possible cap casualties, possible
cap cuts, and on those list of players, there was
no one that I was like dying to move on from.
There were players that if they moved on from, I
would find replaceable.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
TJ.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Slayton's one of them, right, I view him if he's
on the team next year okay, and if they said
we're done, okay Oron Burks. If the Bengals said we
can find somebody better than Oron Burks, I'd go cool.
And if he was on the team next season, that's
fine too. The one that's interesting to me is Orlando Brown.

(26:55):
And this is why I wish the Bengals had a
better defense, because I would love to look at him
and go, you know what, we're gonna get out in
front of a drop off, And because he wasn't awesome
this past year, but at the end of the season,
he said, Okay, given all the other stuff they have
to fix, let's just leave well Enough alone at left

(27:16):
tackle and hopefully we get through the season with the
same offensive line, bring back Dalton Reisner, Hopefully Orlando Brown
plays at the same level he did in twenty five
and twenty six, and you live with it and then
you move on. I wish they could get out in
front of that, but they they're not equipped to because
of all the other issues they have to fix. That
to me is one of the part. What's one of

(27:38):
the dominoes when you have a defense that's that bad
that you can't look at Orlando Brown and say you
know what, we're going to prioritize left tackle, Maybe do
it a year early, move on from them, sign a
suitable replacement, and use your first round draft choice on
that position. You can't do that because of how bad
they are on defense. Yeah, that's the challenge.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And I've been you know, going through a very very
close to the mock off season sheet.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Well it's, oh, it's very close.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
But that's as I've gone through it and been like
doing my versions of it. That's the one I come
back to a lot of like, you just can't add on.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
You gotta know that you would be able to get better,
and then you also could be taking the chance of
playing a draft pick over there.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Like, there's just a lot of variables.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Whereas it's it's fourteen million dollars against the cap is
a big number, but he's also you know, when you
talk about tackle money, it's not that big.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
No.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
I mean he's he's he's not paid average annual value
in the top twenty anymore. I mean it's and that's
probably a fine level that he plays at. Like I think,
I think it's fine. They do need to be getting
out in front of it. In thinking about the future
and and my take on this has been offensive tackle
should be on the table in round one. I'm not

(28:54):
saying you would do it, but it certainly should be
on the table. There's very few that should be off
the table at that time point. But somewhere in your
first three picks, you need to come away with a
tackle that could potentially be your tackle of the future.
I know that's scary because the ghost of Cedric a
wayhe and Jake Fisher, but like, but you have to
do that, Like you just have to do that.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
But he's got to be able to play if needed
this year. Yeah, well that's the point. It's hering.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Look, anybody you pick in the first three rounds should
be able to be a backup and be able to
play if called upon. That's what a first, second, or
third round pick needs to be. Now you're gonna be
with tackle. Sure, there's chances that you take in that,
but I mean, if they're worth that pick, they should
be able to take on that responsibility of being O
T three okay and so, and potentially be more than

(29:40):
that going forward. There's I mean, there's plenty of tackles
that that play and have played on good teams and
had success. So I I that to me is what
the approach has to be. And that's not even speaking
about Orlando's level of play at all. If you have
any tackle entering the last year of his contract, you
I don't know what's going on next year. That position

(30:02):
is too hard to flip on the fly to all
of a sudden be able to just be like next year,
say oh, what are we going to do here? No,
they have to be preemptive about that regardless. So to me,
that's on the table. Yes, I agree. You would love
to be in a position where if that was your
only issue and you had extra money, you could go
get a different guy or get younger or Yeah, there's

(30:24):
not a ton out there, but like it's there's not
a lot of offensive line man that teams are that
are really good. That team's are just letting me out
there on the open market. So it's scarce anyway, but
there are names that you could find an answer there.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
I just feel like with him, and I hope this
isn't the case. And by the way, he's not even
thirty yet. He gets talked about like he's, you know,
thirty four years old. I think he turns thirty during
camp next year, so.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
And keeping him around could be an option, But I
think you'd want to see him play.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Better this year than he did last year. And and
so my fear is.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I could see a scenario where next season Orlando Brown
plays poorly, just the way it's trending. Sure, and when
he does, you go, man, I wish they could have
avoided this, but they can't.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Like they can't.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
I don't want whatever's behind door number two at left tackle,
but I wish the team was good enough to go,
you know what, everything else is pretty set, Let's definitively
use the tenth overall pick on a left tackle, or
let's find a suitable replacement and free agency to pair
with the tenth overall pick. And they just, to me

(31:35):
can't do that because of all the other stuff they've
got to fix. And so what you're hoping for is
that Orlando Brown plays at the level that he did
this year, And hopefully that happens, and if so.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
I think we'll be okay with it.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
But I could see a world where he doesn't, and
you go, man, now it's a liability.

Speaker 8 (31:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Well, and I think one of the more interesting free
agency things to look at, is what is their aggression.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Level at their third tackle position. Is it?

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Is it a replacement because they need a swing tackle,
so it's some you know, bargain two three million dollar
guy whatever journeyman. Or is it a little bit more
of an aggressive push into a higher salary range for
somebody who could be there in case things don't go
well with with Orlando Brown and and try to take

(32:22):
the feeling pigeonholed to get an offensive tackle.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
In the first three rounds or first or second round
or whatever, and.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Play curious to see how that plays out if they
if they view that as something that they should prioritize.
My gut says that they they won't, but it's certainly possible.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I just as I was going down the list, I
was wrestling with do I really want Orlando Brown on
the team next year? And I arrived at I do that,
I do do again. I just wish the team was
better that I can kind of afford to go. You
know what, Let's let's get out in front of this now,
because I think ideally, if your organization is humming on
all cylinders, that's what you do. You move on from

(33:04):
players before they have that sudden drop off, and I
fear by mid November we're gonna go, Holy hell, this
is what the sudden drop off looks like. Maybe that
doesn't happen. Maybe he has a great year in him
and that would be unsurprising as well. But when you
look at the offense, it's Reisner, it's maybe a third
wide receiver, and it's something at left tackle. I wish

(33:25):
you could make that a bigger priority, but you can't,
cause the defense you may have heard.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Not very good.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah, there's no doubt, but I mean if you're talking
about using pick ten or forty one on a tackle
and you get to November and it's not very good,
that's the point where you make a change there anyway,
with a top pick.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
When you see a tweet from Joe Burrow, do you
assume he's been hacked? Yes?

Speaker 3 (33:50):
First thought you assume. You try to figure out if
it's really him. Uh, well, where does your mind go
when you see that Joe Burrow has decided to jump in? Like?
I enjoy Twitter, I really do. I use it to
amuse myself and to promote myself. I enjoy Twitter. I
don't necessarily know that I understand after that app has

(34:10):
been around for seventeen years. Why somebody would suddenly decide,
you know what I'm gonna do? Today is the day
I'm gonna jump in. And so I am. I am
fascinated by the mindset here is this. You know, Joe
Burrow only has something to lose on Twitter. There's nothing
for him to gain. It's Joe Burrow, right, trying to
gain the favor of the officials.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
That I guess.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
So, so when I'm looking at the timeline and I
see a tweet from Joe Burrow, there are very few
times there's an audible reaction for me based on a
tweet that and it wasn't what he tweeted about. It
was like, holy hell, he remember his password?

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yes, which is maybe the most impressive part. And yeah
that photographic that's true. Yes, I remember all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
No, do you think he's a two way authentication guy?

Speaker 8 (34:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:56):
I think I kind of cares about security. Okay, if
I was Joe Burrow I when it happened four way authentication,
I think probably more. Yeah, No, I think so. I
think here's the thing. I mean, I looked down and
I did the first hacked. Sure, right, gotta be And
then it's like, okay, maybe.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Not what's going on? Then I was just staring. I
was kind of squinting.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I have a we have a rule, like, let's let's
try not to have the phones out at the dinner table,
and normally I don't, but like, if I get a
bunch of buzz, I'm like, I'll just go to do
a quick peek. And then I did the I was
literally just leaning down, staring, to the point of my
wife being like, what's wrong?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
What are you staring at? I think, Joe Burrow tweeted.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
I'm not totally sure why or how, but yes, uh,
that was that was fairly stunny.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
I mean, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with trying
to get on the officials nice side. I like it.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
What do you believe is more newsworthy a Joe Burrow
tweet or a Nick Lachet tweet?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Don't do this? This has been your thing, don't dude,
and your thing? Do you think? Joe Burrow tweet? Yes?

Speaker 4 (36:05):
I mean, come on, are you I know what you're
trying to do here? Do you just agree you're trying
to elicit reaction and you're gonna clip me on this camera?

Speaker 6 (36:12):
Right?

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Here and it's gonna get You've already done that for
your own podcast.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yes, I don't want to do it anymore. I just
don't want to do it anymore. Would you get in trouble? No,
don't get you. No, No, I didn't get in trouble.
I just don't. I don't want to. I don't want
leche Hive after me.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Okay, is there apparent in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Six, I'm clear this was not about Nick. Shouldn't make
it abundantly clear.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
It's about people making Nick Lache's tweets news.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yes, not news. Joe Burrow anything he does or says
his news fair. There is a lache Hive, like there's
a I get it if.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
You tweet I love blind people.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Okay, I don't even know what that is there are
I don't Is that Is that a show that he's on?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, that's the show that he's on.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
So you went viral for and what you're viral Okay?
What your take was basically is just because Nick Lache
tweets about the Bengals doesn't mean it's news. And there
are outlets who treated that like news, and your commentary
was about those outlets.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, right, yeah, let's be better. Let's be better as
a news outlet. It's clooney or nobody. Fine, so, but
that was your point.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
What I what I am skeptical of is the suggestion
that there are people so passionate about Nick Lache.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Nothing against Nick, who is a very nice man.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Uh has had a very good career, good for him,
lives a charm life, good for him.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
But there are people so attached to him that they
came after you. I mean, as much as anybody comes
after anybody on Twitter, it's hard to tell. I was
being come after a lot at that point. Yeah, so
it kind of blended in I think in the woodwork.
But yeah, no, yeah, there was some of there's some
of that. But I mean, it's okay, okay, it's okay,
it's it's fine. Everybody has their things. And then maybe
they didn't agree with my thoughts.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Oh, I'm sure there are foo, namely at the publications
you were referencing that didn't agree with you. To get
some pushback from.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Them, No, they can't feel media few, they can't feel
good about it.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh, come on, I was hoping for a media feud.
I mean, I don't I don't want one. No, I do.
I mean, I don't want to be in it.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
But as again as an observer of chaos an absurdity, Yes,
a good media feud would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, we have something. No, that's who wants to do that?
All right? Well, has the lache or what do they
call themselves? I don't. I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
There were just some people that were that that showed
up and just felt like I didn't need this right now?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
That's all? Okay, I get I understand that. I don't
know they have names that they were willing to share.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Probably is I just don't know, all right, But I said,
I think there's something about this that you're not telling me.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I don't think there is Nick's brother come after you
in town, isn't he. It's just when.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
People show up and you're mentioned and be like, you
know at the defense of Nicolche, that's all.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
But did they understand you weren't coming after Nikola? People?

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Never There's been a lot of misunderstanding I feel like happening,
that's all, And I can't.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I can't do anything about that.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
What other people have misunderstood things that have been said,
I can't.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I'm just letting you know what happened, you asked, I
knew this is gonna happen. I'm enjoying you see him uncomfortable.
I am uncomfortable. It makes me.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
You can go to one of your breaks, Paul Dan.
You could read his work at the Athletic dot com.
When does the mock The mock Off Season's out of Thursday?

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Soon? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (39:35):
Hopefully, hopefully, breadsheet, it's currently just going through the last
edits in the different levels of I've done this spreadsheet.
I don't know that you're gonna love it this year. Really,
some years you feel tortured very yes, and I think
this might be closer to that this year than really. Yeah,
I was surprised because you want to do like I want.

(39:57):
I wanted to do more, so my overhaul is not
as possible. I don't know, maybe it is. Maybe maybe
you will come away feeling differently. I my prediction I'm
handicapping this is that you'll come away and say that
was frustrating.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Okay, that's my prediction. We're going to a couple times.
Here's my request. I don't know how this works on
the internet, but what for those who don't know the
mock Off seasons A spreadsheet where you basically build the roster,
cut players, add free agents, draft.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know you you tweak.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
The roster when the Geno stone drop down when I
click on it and I click cut, could could that?
Could a sound be incorporated?

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Could it be like when you send a congratulations text
and like balloons and.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Fireworks go off? Yeah, you know that's not a cut.
That sound that you get when you send, well, it's
not a cut. I guess not sign it would not
bringing them back.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
I might have to create a whole separate drop down.
That's just you have decided not to re sign Genostone.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
When you send an email.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
At least for me, if I send an email on
my phone US an outlook, it sends a sound effect. Yeah,
sometimes I will have to send an email that I
get a great amount of pleasure out of sending.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I love that sound.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yes, I want I love that sound, and I want
that to be on the spreadsheet. When I decide to
not bring back Genostone.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
Maybe I can call it. Maybe I can give it
like a name like the mow Egger non re signing,
like you sponsored not re signing, Yes, genostone. Sure, the
Moegger decision to not re sign genostone is what I'll
put it there in the dropdown ass So that's okay
with that.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Absolutely, that's later this week, all right. Paul Dannerginuita's worked
the Athletic dot Com. I thought it was outstanding.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I loved it.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
We got a lot of good stuff. Dan picture play calling,
Orlando Brown and Nicholas Schay. We can't beat it perfect
just way I drew it up.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Hopefully this is the last run for the Nicholas coms.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
It will be I promise The Growler podcast available where
you get your podcasts, including YouTube and follow Paul or
It is four minutes away from four o'clock. This is
esp AT fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
We'll be on fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
That's us four minutes afterfore. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moeger.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Thank you for listening.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Hopefully it's your Tuesday's going as well as ours. Awesome
stuff from Paul Dayner Junior. As always, if you missed
any of it. The podcasts, that's what we do on
the iHeartRadio app. Podcasts of this show are a service
of Long Neck Sports Grail More on the Bengals a
little bit later on we'll talk about the big college

(42:35):
basketball point shaving scandal with our friends Stuart W. Penrose
from the Manilo LG Groups from college basketball a little
bit later on as well.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
That has nothing to do with point shaving.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I have not on this show had a chance to
talk about UC's victory over Iowa State on Saturday. We'll
do that a little bit later on. Some Red Stuff,
including Tito Francona. Delance on Friday talked about the fact
that the Reds aren't gonna lead the league in unscored
and he's right about that, and that's probably okay. But

(43:05):
I'll tell you what the butt is a little bit
later on. Last night's college football Playoff National Championship game
was terrific. Congratulations to the Indiana Hoosiers. Many have said
it's the greatest sports story ever. I have a hard
time countering that. In my lifetime, it's the greatest college
bass or college football story ever, I am. I think

(43:28):
it's fun as hell when a sport that is at
times not that inclusive has somebody crash it from outside Indiana,
the quintessential college football outsider losing his program. Ever, and
to me, what is so awesome about this season is
obviously with the Hoosiers. There's a Cinderella element to it, right.

(43:53):
It feels like many have compared it to the miracle
on ice. Many have compared it to like George Mason
going to the NCAA turn in Final four h Leicester City.
I don't really follow Premier League soccer. Many have made
that comparison to me, and it's rags to riches. But
what I love most about it is Indiana dominated. They

(44:13):
went sixteen to zero in two seasons. They have outscored
opponents six hundred and sixty six to one eighty seven.
They won the Big Ten in the process. Don't get
mad at me for saying this, Ohio State fans. They
beat the reigning national champion. They then went and destroyed

(44:34):
the bluest of blue bloods, Alabama. They then hammered Oregon,
a mainstay at the top of the polls in college
football for.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Quite a while. They beat five playoff teams.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
None of those games against playoff teams took place in Bloomington.
And then last night they won just a great football game,
and it was the latest reminder. Look, college football has
all sorts of issues. College basketball has all sorts of
issues college sports. There are many facets of college sports

(45:08):
that feel like they're at a crossroads, and the discontent
that many feel when it comes to their relationship with
their favorite college sports team should not be ignored. Although
I don't necessarily know who's going to be able to
address it. But the games are sometimes so good. That
game last night was so good. Give Miami a lot

(45:29):
of credit with dudes like Reuben bain Alekai Tony, like
guys who just kept coming every time it felt like
Indiana was about to deliver a knockout blow. The Hurricanes responded,
that was a great football game, that was a great
sporting event, and it ends look had Miami won on

(45:51):
some level, that would have been cool as well. I'm
old enough to remember when Miami was the biggest brand
in college football. I'm probably in the minority, hear. I
actually think it's kind of fun watching dudes like Michael
Irvin and ray Lewis on the Miami sideline. But I
was rooting for Indiana, and so if you're an IU fan,
if you went to IU, congratulations, it is an awesome story.

(46:12):
Now I think many are trying to pull lessons from
the Indiana story and there's I guess.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
For me, it's this right.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
You hear this When colleges have openings, sometimes for a
men's basketball coach, sometimes for a football coach, sometimes for
another part of the athletic department. Sometimes we talk a
little bit too much about having a type. So the
University of Cincinnati had an opening at the end of
the twenty twenty two season. I've seen people suggest that

(46:45):
Kurt Signetti was interviewed by UC. I don't know that
to be a fact, but whether or not it was,
you see, had a type and what they were looking
for was somebody who had been a Power five conference
head coach. And it feels like, and John Hunningham talked
about this at the time, that was a huge factor
in deciding to hire Scott Sadderfield. Now, time, I guess

(47:08):
ultimately will tell if that turns out to be the
right hire. Scott Sadderfield is obviously not that popular with
UC fans. I think, you know, this year's season for
me was underwhelming because they started seven to one. They
had a lot of dudes come back, They went and
hit the portal and brought some good players in and
so for all of that to end with a seven

(47:30):
win season and five straight losses at the end is
very underwhelming. But that's neither here nor there. They had
there was a type they prioritized, Power five coaching experience,
and I think, I think this is what we do right.
And so to me, if there's one thing from the
Indiana story that could be applied elsewhere, it's when you

(47:52):
have a head coach, cast a wide net, do an exhaustive,
extensive search, don't be guided by there being a type
that you're looking for, don't use Well, they they need
power five experience. Kurt Signetti had no Power five head

(48:14):
coaching experience. Well, they've they've got to be from this
part of the country. Not to say that that can't help. Uh,
Kurt Signetti is not from Indiana. Well, they've they've got
to be. They've got to be young. Kurt Signetti at
least in coaching years, not exactly young. Well, we need

(48:34):
a big name that can energize people. We need a
big name that can stir up the fan base. Let's
be honest, Prior to about midway through last season, did
anybody know who Kurt Signetti was? Chances are the answer
is no. And so we do this like make it

(48:56):
about any school. I remember when I you had a
head coaching vacancy. I don't remember when they hired Kurt Signetti.
I don't remember the Google Meet press conference. Frankly, neither
do most. It was Oh yeah, Indiana hired the guy
from James Madison. Looks like he had a pretty good
record there. Good luck at IU. That feels like a
place where coaches go to die. Now, there are lots

(49:18):
of other things that have happened since the way they've
navigated the portal, the quality of players brought in, nil
money helping out the program, the ease of player movement
in college football. All of those things factors great coaching.
Obviously grabbing players from Miami's backyard, including a quarterback for

(49:39):
Nanda Mendoza that the Hurricanes didn't want. But I guess
for me, like Kurt Signetti, didn't check any of the
boxes that at times, and I'm sure schools do this,
but we as fans do this too, And like as
a UC fan, I've done this show through four different
head coaching searches. Was on the air from Kelly to Jones,

(50:02):
was on the air from Jones to Tubberville. Was on
the air from Tubberville to Fickle and then Fickle to Saderfield.
That's like five. And we do it as fans. There's
always like certain like prerequisites. Want somebody who's been a
head coach before. Uh, want somebody who's been a Power
five head coach, Well, do they have ties to the city.

(50:24):
They've got to be an offensive guy or a defensive guy.
Not that Kurt Signetti didn't check certain boxes for the
person that hired him, but it felt to me like,
and we're saying this now after the fact, that they
simply prioritized the right person, the right fit, the person
who wowed them at the interview, and were willing to

(50:48):
look beyond what he wasn't. I think we as fans,
and I'm sure there's a lot of administrators in college
sports who don't do that, looking to check certain boxes. Well,
they've got to be an offensive guy, or need to
have somebody who has ties to the area. Need to
have somebody who went to this school. Need to be

(51:09):
somebody who has been on a on a Power five
or Power four staff. Need somebody with power fork head
coaching experience. And we do this a lot when it
comes to coaching vacancies or general manager vacant season. My
one wish is always cast a wide net. Cast a

(51:30):
wide net. Next coaching opening here, whether it's the Bengals,
the Reds, u Se Xavier, whatever it is, cast a
wide net. Like I think Richard Patino is gonna work
at Xavier. Xavier went outside the family for the first
time in like two decades.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Now.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
It's not like they had to turn over a rock
to find Richard Patino, who's coaching a good program in
New Mexico. The name doesn't hurt. He had coached in
the Big Ten before. But they cast a wide net,
cast a wide net. This comes up when when when
there's a Reds managerial vacancy. Now, when Terry Francone is available,
maybe you put the net away, but you know, beyond that,

(52:12):
we do this all the time, and it felt like
Indiana cast a pretty wide net. Now, if you kind
of have an idea in your back pocket who some
of the people you want to interview are going to be,
It's it's not like you had to look that far.
James Madison's not some an I nai a program. Hell,
that program played participated in the College Football Playoff this year,
But I guarantee you. There are people who followed the

(52:33):
IU program who are like, who, wait a minute, that's
the best we can do. James Madison, Wait a minute.
That hiring a guy in his sixties. That dude's not
from here. There's no P five head coaching experience, he
doesn't have big ten roots. Instead, just hire the best dude.

(52:53):
Hire the best dude who's also the best fit. And
IYU did that and is rewarded for it. It's not
always gonna work, but that's what I you did. That's
what it seems like they did. Hire the right person,
cast a wide net, do an exhaustive search, and forget
the preconceived ideas of what the head coach has to be.

(53:15):
Don't hire a type, hire a coach. I think we
do that sometimes you're looking for a type. NFL teams
have done this, you know. Zach Taylor was hired during
the wave of young, offensive minded coach and Zach Taylor,
it's not like he's been a total flop. Say what
you want about him.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
He did.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
He did stand on these sidelines for the Bengals in
a Super Bowl. But I remember at the time going like,
are we hiring the best leader? Are we hiring the
best fit or are we hiring a type? Because all
I heard was about a type, young, offensive oriented coach,
and with Zach there's been successes and failures. I cannot

(53:56):
stand hiring a type. I think you pigeonhole your self.
I think you you're operating in times with one arm
tied behind your back.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
I don't think Indiana hired a type.

Speaker 6 (54:08):
Now.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
You know what everybody else is gonna do now is
try to find their version of Kurt Signetti. And I'm
not sure that person's out there.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
We'll see.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
But anyway, congratulations to the Indiana Hoosiers. By the way,
my colleague Lance McAllister has a question. I saw it
on his Facebook and it was, you know which was
more impressive the seventy six undefeated Indiana Hoosiers basketball team,
the last college basketball team on the men's side to

(54:40):
go through an entire season undefeated, or what the IU
Hoosiers football team did.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
And for me the answer is football. Now. Both are awesome,
Both are historic.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Indiana LA's claimed to both, but in this era, with
roster instability, with their being real parody in this sport
is to a degree unprecedented that I'm not sure existed
in men's college basketball in the mid nineteen seventies, NFL
levels of scouting and analytics available to everybody.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Like to me, it's it's football.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Nothing against Indiana Hoosiers nineteen seventy six undefeated team with
six dudes who played in the NBA and Bob Knight.
But if you're making it one versus the other, which
we don't have to do, I'll take what Kurtzignetti's team
accomplished ahead of Bob Knight. Seventeen minutes after five o'clock,
Elie Dela Cruz was offered by the Reds, according to

(55:36):
Nick Krawl, a contract that would have made him the
highest paid Reds player of all time. Understand what I
just said there? Understand what I didn't just say there.
I'll explain next WCKY Cincinnati and iHeartRadio Station Guaranteed Human

(55:57):
ESPN fifteen thirty Hard twenty three after four o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeger, Thanks so much for listening.
I gotta throw two pole questions out there. One will
be about the Reds over under, because that's that's a
novel idea on Twitter at moegor phone calls in a
bit lines are open. Five point three, seven, four, nine,

(56:19):
fifteen thirty Reds Fest happened this weekend, and the big
story that came out of it was Nick Crawl. According
to a report authored by Sea Trent Rosecrans of the Athletic,
Ellie Dela Cruz was offered a contract that would have
made him the highest paid Reds player ever, the highest
paid player in franchise history. That's key, verbage, highest paid

(56:44):
player in franchise history. Note that I didn't say highest
paid player in major league history.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
There's a difference.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
If you were Ellie Dela Cruz, you could sign right
now to be the highest paid player in Red's history,
or perhaps, if you perform at a high level, be
the highest paid player in baseball history. Now remove your
fandom for a second, take your Reds hat off.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
I get it. Ironically, I'm wearing a Red hat.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
I would rather be the highest paid player in major
League Baseball history. Enough said, Now he's got to play
like it and like more than his contract or where
he's gonna play in twenty thirty. One of these central
storylines for this team is is Elie Dellacruz a better

(57:45):
baseball player this year than he was last year. Health
may have something to do with that. I'm sure it
will durability, but he's gonna have to be better. Can't
lead the planet in errors Like here we are. The
dude has been a part of the of a big
league team for nearly three whole seasons, nearly three whole seasons,

(58:07):
and we're still having discussions about where he fits best defensively,
like you will find smart people, credible people who will
say he's best suited to play center field. That doesn't
go away if you continue to be a mushroom trip
when the ball is hit you at shortstop. So that's

(58:28):
got a change. The level of offensive production has to
get better again. If you want to say, well, late
last season, chalk it up to the quad issue, okay,
but still, if you want to be maybe Baseball's first
billion dollar player, your seasons moving forward have to look better.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Also.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
The Reds this year is currently constructed built just like
last year. At the beginning of the season, last year's
Reds team was built around two guys, Matt McLain the
two spot, Ellie Dela Cruz in the middle of the order,
hitting third. This team was built around those two guys.
Now Matt McClain had a terrible season. The Reds two

(59:10):
hole production was awful. We're all hoping for a big
bounce back season for Matt McLain. But last year's team
was also built around Ellie deler Cruz being superhuman. He
had his moments, he was not superhuman. So I'm a
little bit more short focused. I guess if we're focused

(59:31):
on the short term, we'll put it that way, like,
is Ellie going to be better this season? Is he
going to stay healthy this year? How are they going
to manage his playing time if he is sore, if
he is dealing with an injury. Are they just gonna
let him go out there and play every single day
no matter what. Will they use him as a DH occasionally?
Will they give him an off day occasionally? Will they

(59:51):
tell him no? Those things are all to me higher
on the list than where's he going to be playing thirty?
But as long as the verbiage is highest paid player
in Red's history and not highest paid player in baseball history,
non starter, and that potential is still out there, it

(01:00:16):
might not be the one that might not be the
ultimate outcome. But when Wan Soto signed his deal with
the Mets and folks wondered who's going to be Baseball's
first billion dollar player. One of the names that popped
up was Elie Dela Cruz. Now, there can be multiple
billion dollar players, and by the way, that the labor
situation in the future of baseball's economics could play a

(01:00:39):
part in how this works. But to me, the eyeopener
would have been, Hey, the Red's offered Elie Dela Cruz
a chance to be the highest paid player in baseball.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
They didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Or the real eye opener would have been, they've offered
Elie Dela Cruz a chance to be the highest paid
player in baseball history, or they've offered a chance to
be Baseball's first billion dollar player. In the absence of
that highest paid player in Red's history, wouldn't do anything
for me or you if we were Ellie Dela Cruz.

(01:01:15):
I said this a second ago. The Reds have to
say no to Ellie Dela Cruz. I think this is encouraging.
So Ellie's not going to play in the World Baseball Classic,
And like, there is a big part of me that
wishes he would, because I think that's an awesome event
and it would be more awesome if he was a
part of it, but they steered him away from it,

(01:01:35):
because you have that right when you're coming off an injury,
to tell the guy you're not going to play in
the World Baseball Classic. I'm sure Ellie is disappointed. I
don't think this has to be the sort of thing
that leads to a contentious relationship. But the Reds have
to do what's best for the Reds and if they

(01:01:55):
have the ability to tell Ellie not, actually, we're not
going to have you play in that because it's best
for us if you don't awesome. Last year, they wouldn't
tell Ellie Delacruz. No, remember the whole thing we did
all year long. Hey, Ellie's really struggling at the plate,
Well he's hurt, or they should give him a day off.
Well they can't. Why not because he wants to play
every day. Well he's not playing very well. Well, because

(01:02:18):
he's hurt, Well they should give him a day off.
Well they can't. Why because Ellie wants to play every day. Okay, Well,
but he's not playing very well. But while he's hurt,
Well they should give him a day off. Well they can't.
I mean, all year long round then around then a round,
and it was like, tell the dude no, awesome, that
you want to play every day. Awesome, that you want
to play in the field every day, but you're not
helping the team. If you're not one hundred percent, you're

(01:02:40):
not helping the team, if you're not seventy five percent,
Tell the guy no. This would suggest that perhaps they're
a little bit more willing to tell him no. That
is a good thing. So are our segments with Stuart W.
Penro from Manila Lawgroup. He joins us talk about college

(01:03:02):
basketball's point shaving scandal.

Speaker 8 (01:03:04):
Next Cincinnati's sports station ESPN fifteen to thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Twenty five from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger.
We'll do sports headlines, of which there aren't many here in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Just a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
On Tuesdays, we talk about the sports and the law
with our friend Stewart W. Penrose from Manilo Lawgroup. You
can learn more at Manilolawgroup dot com. Last week we
spent a little bit of time on this the big
college basketball point shaving scandal, which has enveloped a lot
of programs at the low major and mid major level.

(01:03:42):
It's pretty widespread the evidence seems to be pretty damning
for everybody involved, and so I wanted to ask questions
of our legal expert. Stewart is with us. It's good
to have you as always, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
How are you doing great?

Speaker 8 (01:03:55):
Moll?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Thanks for having me ie hands here. Yeah, we do,
we do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
And so whenever I see federal indictment, and I'm painting
with a very broad brush here, but whenever I see
federal indictment, I think, uh, oh, ironclad case one that's
hard to get out of. Is that assumption a fair
one that if I see federal indictment, you know what,
the Feds don't lose, So the people who have been
indicted here are screwed.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Is that a fair assumption?

Speaker 6 (01:04:22):
It's it's not a dishonest assumption. The Seds don't bring
weak cases, but no case is an automatic lock. I
mean mode generally speaking, when when when federal prosecutors final
final charges for uh, you know, wire fraud is typically
after months and sometimes years of investigations. You know, by

(01:04:42):
the time these the rest happen, they typically have one
or more cooperating witnesses, wire tasks, text messages, uh, there
could be betting records, bank transfers. So I mean their
their batting average is extremely high, and they're not going
to go in blindly, and it's with a lot of
investigation and usually a lot of concrete evidence before they

(01:05:03):
bring down these charges.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Can cases like this even be prosecuted at the state
and local level.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
State ten states prosecute sports fiber bribery, gaming related fraud, conspiracy.
But the set step in when when bets cross state lines,
online sportsbooks are involved, I mean mode typically speaking, if
there are phones, text messages, apps, banking systems, those tend
to cross state lines. And you know, once you cross

(01:05:31):
state lines, it becomes a federal issue, and for prosecution,
you know, federal course preferred. There's broader jurisdiction. The penalties
are much harsher as well too, and they have more
resources and more investigative tools.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
Uh, walk me through the specific charges involved here and
what the people involved are potentially looking at in terms
of punishment.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
Sure, well, first and foremost, I mean the court charge
here is why fraud. And you know you might be asking,
you know, I hear the term all the time. You
know what's wire fraud? You know essentially it's three elements.
You know, there's got to be a scheme to defraud,
intend to decize and the use of interstate wires, whether
those be you know, phone calls, texts, apps, internet. Basically,

(01:06:19):
if you use the phone, text or betting app to
you know, to rig outcomes or manipulating betting betting lines,
that's wire fraud and that's and those are the accusations here.
You know, there are the charges conspiracy, money laundering, bribery,
illegal gambling, but you know, the wire fraud is the
is the main crups of it here.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
So you have a lot of folks involved here, you
have a lot of current and former men's college basketball players.
What happens if the people name decide to cooperate with
the prosecution.

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
Well, the I'm sure most of the athletes will a
lot of times in these sex the cases MO when
there's big schemes, it's kind of a rate to the
prosecutor's office. Let's be honest here, the player are the
ponds in the system. They're the small you know, they're
the small people at the bottom of the totem poll.
It is certainly in their best interest to cooperate and
give information. Uh, if you cooperate, there can be reduced charges,

(01:07:13):
drop charges, there could be significant reductions in your sentence,
sometimes no jail time at all, particularly for these you know,
for these players, they're low level pawns, you know the government,
you know, well, they they're going to get everybody. They
want to get the people at the top, you know,
first and foremost, those are the big fish at the
end of the day. So uh, certainly folks are going
to want to cooperate and testify, and the sooner they

(01:07:35):
do and the more information they provide, the lighter that
things are going to go for them.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
This is maybe a dumb question, will not be the
first one or a last one that I've asked, but
you you know, you can you can find evidence that
a that a college basketball player agreed to shave points
right if they're texting, you know, that sort of thing.
But can you actually prove that a player went through
Can you, in a court of law prove that a
player wasn't trying his best to help his team win.

Speaker 6 (01:08:03):
Well, they're going to use messages that the players have
sent to you know that the folks that they were
working with, and you know, my understanding from some of
the articles and some of the news that broke out
is you know that they talked to the conspirators and
the folks that were paying them. Hey, I tried doing this,
I tried doing that, And certainly their words can be
used against them. And I'm sure that there are ways,

(01:08:25):
you know, to to try and improve that in court.
I'm sure that there are ways by you know, looking
at film and doing things besides just the messages. But
when you have messages and you have texts and emails
that are pretty damning, you know, it's not it's not
good for the player.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Yeah, So the basketball players themselves, if convicted, what sort
of punishment, what kind of time are they maybe looking at?

Speaker 6 (01:08:48):
Technically speaking? Why or fraud carries up the twenty years
in prison? I mean that said now, I mean no
judge is going to look to throw a you know,
a pawn in this system, a college athlete in prison
for twenty years over this could prison time be on
the table, yes it can, but more than likely, you know,
these young kids, these you know, young athletes are going

(01:09:08):
to work with the prosecution, work with the investigators with
the aid of their attorney, to give information and cut
deals that you know very well could keep them out
of prison.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
So you obviously have a lot of folks who are
are worried that this, with the proliferation of legal gambling,
that this is going to become kind of a common
thing that we have to deal with these stories all
the time. So, could a judge, for instance, decide, you
know what, because I don't want there to be more
cases like this, I'm going to make an example of

(01:09:40):
the athletes involved here and have found guilty, punish them,
for lack of a better term, excessively in an effort
to make an example out of them.

Speaker 6 (01:09:50):
You could you could always have a judge go road.
That said, there still are sent unseen guidelines. Most of
these players probably have little to know criminal records whatsoever.
There are still guidelines that you have. Whereas if you
have somebody in front of you with a long criminal
record that you know has more contact with the cord

(01:10:12):
and you know it's higher risk, you know that person
is likely to receive a longer sentence, It's probably unlikely
a judge goes rogue on a young college athlete here.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Yeah, makes sense. Stuart W.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Penrose, Attorney, Manila Lawgroup dot Com. I have a feeling
there's going to be more cases like this and so
it's going to be good to have you. As we
say in the legal profession, as you say in the
legal profession on retainer. Awesome stuff. As always, Man, thanks
so much, Thank you, Bo. That's our guy, Stuart W. Penrose.
You can learn more about the Manila Lawgroup at Manila

(01:10:44):
Lawgroup dot com. It's eighteen away from five o'clock. Sports
headlines involved basically this there's a couple of college basketball
games in the area.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Miami is on the road against ken State, the RedHawks
looking for a twentieth consecutive victory after there over time
win thrilling overtime win over Buffalo on Saturday. That game
will tip off in Kent, Ohio, at seven o'clock tonight. Meanwhile,
college basketball in the area, Ohio State takes on Minnesota.
Indiana's on the road against Michigan Hockey tonight. The Blue

(01:11:17):
Jackets look for a fifth consecutive victory, skating with and
against Ottawa. There you go, seventeen away from five o'clock five, one, three, seven, four, nine.
Fifteen thirty is our phone number. We will grab a
couple of phone calls when we come back on ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Cincinnati sports station.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
It is twelve from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty Moeger. Thanks for listening today. You'll hear Terry Francona
state the obvious coming up after the top of hour
at five o'clock plus. Tonight, Twitter's angriest night Baseball Hall
of Fame class in twenty twenty six is going to

(01:11:56):
be announced, and I've got the one, two, three, three, four,
five five five, Yes, five players who should be let
in this year. I bet you can't wait for that.
Coming up in the five o'clock hour. Right now, though,
we'll talk to other folks, starting with Ron and Milford. Ron,
You're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Roun, Good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
How are you.

Speaker 7 (01:12:19):
I am well, Mo, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
I'm doing awesome. Thanks for asking.

Speaker 7 (01:12:23):
I can't wait to hear the lift. I'll be holding
strong to listen to that later.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
It's gonna be incredible question for you five thirty five.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
By the way, I know you can't wait.

Speaker 7 (01:12:34):
I can't wait.

Speaker 8 (01:12:35):
I got a question.

Speaker 7 (01:12:36):
If I missed this, I apologize, But what were your
thoughts on the officiating this weekend? I thought the officials
did a good job overall.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Are you talking about the ball downfield of Brandon Cooks
that was ruled an interception in the Buffalo Denver game.

Speaker 7 (01:12:52):
Well, just yeah, just overall in that game, I thought,
you know, they because I feel like each team caught
a break. I mean, Cooks got held earlier in the
end zone, but then the Bills could have the Bills
could have been called for a safety, which would have
ended the game when they had that holding in the
end zone.

Speaker 8 (01:13:10):
Yea.

Speaker 7 (01:13:11):
And just in general, I thought that, you know, they
kind of gave each team a little bit each way,
So I thought in general, And on the interference calls,
I thought that those were interference and I do think that.
I mean on the catch there, like you said, I mean,
it either had to be a interception or a catch.

(01:13:32):
There was no fumble because someone had to have the
ball and the ball never hit the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Yeah, So I mean, to me, that was simple.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
And I think a lot of people had issue with
the fact that the call wasn't that it felt like
they reviewed it hastily, right, that they conferred, reviewed it
hastily and moved on. But to me, the verbiage that
has been used here makes all the sense in the world.
We talk all the time about completing the process of
making a catch. The wide receiver didn't complete the process

(01:14:03):
of making the catch, and the ball end up in
the hands of another guy, So that's an interception. Like
that's to me, that's not that controversial. We can debate
what constitutes completing the process of making a catch.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
We do that all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
But I think under what we have come to commonly
understand as completing the process of making the catch, Brandon
Cooks didn't do that, and so then the ball either
hits the ground, which it did not, or it ends
up in the hands of another player, which it did,
and if it does, then the ball goes to the

(01:14:39):
other team. So I thought the officials got that correct.
I also thought the folks looking for offensive pass interference
on the the Cole Comet touchdown, the miraculous play that
forced overtime.

Speaker 7 (01:14:51):
Just hand fighting though.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Yeah, just because two players are hand fighting and the
other player releases does make it a push off all.

Speaker 7 (01:15:01):
Cole Comet deer.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
All cole Comett did was release himself from the player. Yeah,
there's there's pushing off. He didn't push off, like if
there's some physical contact and the player one of the players.
In this case, the offensive player decides to separate from
the defender.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
That's not a push off.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
I have no idea what folks who wanted to push
off there were looking at, because what I saw were
two players fighting for position and the other players simply released,
which is one legal. It turned out to be somewhat
of a moot point because the Bears chose to not
go for two, which was stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
They chose to.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Uh not possess the ball to start overtime, which was
also stupid.

Speaker 7 (01:15:45):
I was gonna ask you about that, though they should
have went for two.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
You're two yards away from the winning points against a
defense that shell shocked. Now maybe the Rams call time out.
You're two yards away from the winning points. There is
a very good chance in overtime you will never be
two yards away from the winning points.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
You to me.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
I know they were at home, and maybe the argument
in favor of playing for overtime is different if you're
on the road. I am winning the game with my
offense on the field two yards away from the winning
points ten times out of ten, and then I agree,
you start overtime by kicking the ball away. And I
don't understand that either I want the ball first, I

(01:16:31):
want to put the pressure on the other team to
either score, or if they do, I get the ball
back in All I need is a field goal.

Speaker 8 (01:16:40):
Exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:16:41):
No one of the things that you were just talking
to the legal experts there. I honestly, and I hate
to be a conspiracy theorist, but you know, if there's
one sport that there's a lot of judgment calls that
can be made, it seems like the NFL, and I
just wonder how many of these officials are gambling on
the game to affect the outcomes, because, let's face it,

(01:17:03):
they have the most opportunity to affect the outcome of games,
are the officials?

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Yeah, I don't agree with that. I mean, do they
have an opportunity to affect games?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Sure they do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
I don't watch these games through the lens of thinking
the officials are on the take.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Like I cannot imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
In this day and age that an official would be
willing to risk prison time for the sake of helping
somebody win a bet. I just we're talking about in
many cases, folks who have been officiating games for years, who,
by the way, have forged other careers, who have families.

(01:17:44):
Why would an NFL official be willing to risk all
of that to go to jail if they're caught.

Speaker 7 (01:17:52):
Well, I think it's because some of them, as you said,
they have these second careers and they're not all at Hockeyly,
they're not all attorneys. I mean I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:18:02):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Mean no, I just officiating inconsistencies and judgment mistakes have
been going on since we decided to have officials officiate
sporting events.

Speaker 7 (01:18:19):
Well, we get the full time officials finally in the
NFL or no, So here's my question.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
If I'm an official and they say you're going to
be a full time employee of the NFL, I have questions.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
What's the pay?

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
If I have another job that's lucrative and I have
to give that up, are you going to account for
that money that I'm out?

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Also?

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
What's the job security? If I miss one call? Am
I out of a job? Like we hear this all
the time. We'll make them full time employees.

Speaker 7 (01:18:47):
Cool?

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
So if I let me ask you this, If I
if I miss one call in one game, am I fired?

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
What's the job security?

Speaker 5 (01:18:55):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
What are the benefits? What's the salary? Sounds great? Make
them full time employe. P If I was one of
these officials, I would ask a lot of questions, and
I would be skeptical about whether or not I make
a mistake on a fifty to fifty call and now
I'm out of a job. So yeah, man, it sounds awesome.
Make them full time employees. How many of them would

(01:19:16):
really want to be full time employees? How many of
them would be willing to give up what their primary
vocation is to be full time NFL employees with maybe
not so much job security?

Speaker 8 (01:19:27):
Well, no, the NFL makes enough money.

Speaker 7 (01:19:29):
You'd think they'd be able to pay the officials well
enough to make them full time employees. Let's face it,
the money is hand over hand in the NFL more
than any of the other sports.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Right, what's my job security?

Speaker 7 (01:19:43):
Well, if Angel Hernandez has got a job in BASEBALLMB,
sure if these guys in the NFL could keep their jobs.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Too, well, Angel Hernandez for years had the backing of
an umpire's union. Are the officials going to have the
same union protection they have now? Remember they went on
strike in twenty twelve.

Speaker 8 (01:20:00):
I know, and mo I heard on I didn't know this.
I heard on NFL.

Speaker 7 (01:20:03):
Live that I guess the contracts up again?

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
Yeah, it is so.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
And that's why I think there's this added discussion about
the officials being full time employees.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Knowing how fans are.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
And and and I'm this way, but but knowing how
we are where we we scrutinize every single call that's made.
So a first year official makes two bad calls? Is
he out of a gig? I mean, that's what I
would want to know. You want to make me a
full time official?

Speaker 6 (01:20:29):
Cool?

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
How much leeway am I allowed? Am I allowed to
make any bad calls? You know what's what's going to
happen if I don't grade perfectly? I think we we
are continuing to search for perfect officiating, and in my lifetime,
we haven't gotten it. Replay was supposed to fix it,
and then added replay was supposed to fix it, and
then adding uh, replay Assist was supposed to fix officiating,

(01:20:51):
and now the latest, the latest fix is going to
be full time officials. Like we're in search of something
that's never going to exist. We're in search of perfection, Ron,
thank you so much. We're in search of perfection, which
is why and this is never gonna happen. I am
the ultimate human element guy. If I was in charge
of sports, which I should be, replay would go away entirely.

(01:21:14):
Games played by human beings and coach by human beings
should be officiated by human beings and we live with
the results. But I think you would have a lot
of pushback among NFL officials when it comes to being
full time employees.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
What's my job security?

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
Like? Nobody has that answer. Tito Francona says the obvious.
I'll say what he didn't say next on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
You've done Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
Four after five, ESPN fifteen thirty, Malager, thanks for listening
and hopefully your Tuesday is going swimmingly. Swimmingly, I said,
we're gonna talk more about Dan Pitcher a little bit
later on, and we're gonna play a little game of

(01:22:00):
Elie Delacruz Make Belief. One of the best shows of
the year is when Lance McAllister does sports talk from Redsfest.
It's terrific and anything you might have missed from that
you can go find on the iHeartRadio app. He had
a conversation with Tito Francona. So this Reds offseason has
been defined by two things. One I think is really good.

(01:22:23):
I think the Reds bullpen is better, not at all insignificant.
Do not downplay that. You could be frustrated with what
hasn't happened with the offense, and you can be skeptical
that this is going to work.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Those are very legitimate things.

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
I do think they have been pretty aggressive in finding
established big league relievers to fill certain roles. I have
sat in this room, in front of this microphone before
and hammered the Reds for not prioritizing getting legitimate relievers

(01:23:00):
to fill important roles.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
I think they've done that this offseason. That's good.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
The other way this offseason has been defined is by
the fruitless search for a bat. And it's January twentieth.
Spring training starts in three weeks. Maybe they'll still get one.
To this point, they have not. Apologies to Dane Meyers
and JJ Bleday, and so there's a fair amount of frustration,

(01:23:25):
legitimate and understandable frustration. I share it that the Reds
offense is going to look a lot like last year's offense.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Now, maybe it won't.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
Maybe Salz Stewart hits thirty home runs, and maybe Ella
Dela Cruz is productive and healthy, and maybe Matt McClain
is better, and maybe JJ Bleday ends up being better
than most of us think he can be.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
And maybe Key.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Brian Hayes is not an offensive zero, even though he
has been one for his entire career.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
A lot of maybe he's a lot of what ifs.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
But what they haven't done is add a guy who
has a legitimate bat that may you feel like the
offensive dynamic has changed. Here is Tito with Lance on
Friday stating, when it comes to the Reds offense, what
I think most of us would agree is the obvious.

Speaker 5 (01:24:17):
So when we were going through good times last year,
our bullpen was rested, yep and deep, and when we struggled,
we're relying on guys like Santion Pugne way too much.
Now we've got some depth, We added some left handers.
And it's not just when you're winning, but you know,
when you're down by two in the sixth guys give

(01:24:38):
you a chance to come back and win some of
those games and also not bury the guys at the
end of the game. But you make a good point
because there's different styles. We have a couple of different left,
these different looks. The writing's not like Pierce Johnson coming
in with a breaking ball. Again, We're not going to
leave the league in runs, is my guess. That's just
being honest. But I would rather try to play with

(01:25:00):
a really good pitching staff and team that catches the ball.
Then when you score, it's meaningful. Trying to win ten
to nine is really hard. You got to do it sometimes,
but it's a hard way to play.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
I would like to win ten nothing. I'd like to
win ten to two. Like it doesn't have to be
an either or a thing. It's not well, you either
win three to two or ten to nine, Like, why
not win ten to five? You talk about something that
could ease the strain on a bullpen, consistently having large leads.
Talk about something that can help your starting staff giving

(01:25:31):
them a lot of runs and a lot of cushion,
so you don't have to start thinking about high leverage
outs in the middle innings because every game is close.
It doesn't have to be either or. There's a lot
that Terry Francona just said there that I agree with,
and again how he feels about the bullpen. I think
is justified because I believe that can be a strength

(01:25:52):
of this team. I think you would agree. But it
doesn't have to be an either or proposition. It's not
either win games two to one, ten to nine. How
about win more games nine to three? How About win
more games eight to four. How About instead of skating
into the postseason you go into the postseason with ease.

(01:26:13):
How About instead of skating by and winning every game
by a run or two, you win more games with ease.
That'll make everybody's job easier. It'll make it easier to
win close games if you have more blowouts. And I'm
not talking about winning games twelve zip. You know, ten
to two is maybe extreme, but I don't know why

(01:26:33):
it has to be either or. How about this, try
to win more games seven to one. If you win
more games seven to one, it'll put a lot less
strain on everybody. That was my first reaction to that
sound when I heard it on Friday. The other is this,
he took a guess, and I think we would agree

(01:26:55):
they're probably not going to lead the league in run score.
Fair assumption, a reasonable assumption, an assumption that I think
most of us have nodded along with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
And you know what, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
You can still win a lot of games by not
leading the league in run scored. It puts a premium
on your starting pitching. Red should have really good starting pitching.
Puts a premium on the bullpen. I think the Reds
are gonna have a pretty decent bullpen this year. Puts
a premium on defense, puts a premium on doing the
little things, not giving away outs, not giving up bases,

(01:27:32):
make taking advantage of the outs you have offensively, playing
small ball, not giving away outs on the base pass.
There's no one way to win. The problem, though, isn't
what Tito said. The problem isn't Terry Francona informing the
rest of us what chances are we already know, hey,

(01:27:54):
we're not going to score that many runs. We're not
going to lead the league in run scored. I think
the problem is Tito Francona's bosses seem okay with that.
It's one thing for the manager to go and you know,
this was part of his messaging this weekend was, you know,
my job is to manage the guys that I have,

(01:28:17):
and I'm happy with the guys we have, and I
don't have to talk myself into it. I'm paraphrasing them here,
but it's one thing for the manager to say, you
know what, we're probably not going to lead the league
in runs. It's something else entirely for the front office
to act in a way that makes you and I
believe that they're okay with that. Hasn't that been the

(01:28:39):
overriding message of the offseason, at least when it comes
to the offense. Yes, there was the dalliance or the flirtation,
or the pursuit, if you want to call it that
of Kyle Schwarber.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
It didn't work out. Since then, what's there?

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
Been handful of reports that they're going to trade for
ktel Marte did happen? A handful of reports that they're
pursuing Luis Robert frankly glad that hasn't happened. Folks want
to see a u Haaneo Suarezbak sign me up for that.
Don't know where he'd play, but I'd be okay with that.
But nothing concrete. The offseason is nearly four months old.

(01:29:19):
Nothing has been done to take last year's offense and
with an outside bat, make it better. No protection for
the middle of the order, nobody who changes the dynamic
of the offense, Nobody who's really good at getting on base,
no speedster, nobody, a couple of spare parts, dudes like
jaj Bleday who feel a lot like a bunch of

(01:29:41):
guys we've seen play time and play in the outfield
for the Reds for years. Tito Francona's observation is probably accurate.
The Reds are not going to lead the league and
run scored. My observation is it feels like Tito's bosses
are kind of okay with that. I don't know how

(01:30:03):
that's acceptable. Like Tito's got a job. I'll manage the
guys I got. I gotta make do with what I got,
being paid a lot of money, Hall of Fame, bona fides.
You brought me in to make do with whatever you
give me. And so if I've got to use our
starting staff and a better bullpen to win more three
to two games, that's my job. It's my job to

(01:30:24):
find out ways, figure out ways to win when we're
probably not gonna lead the league and run scored. We
don't have an uber potent lineup. We're not gonna hit
a ton of home runs, and I don't have a
lot of guys who are great at getting on base,
probably not gonna steal a ton of bags. It's one
thing for the manager to acknowledge that it's something else entirely, though,

(01:30:46):
for that acknowledgment to come toward the end of an
offseason where management has seemed okay with that. They they
seem okay with their being this massive deficiency. But the
manager is telling you were not going to be good offensively,
and yet in the front office they're kind of nodding along,

(01:31:07):
going hey, yeah, sorry, man, good good, good luck is good,
do what you gotta do. They hopefully were healthier, and
some dudes who weren't very good last year better, good luck, Tito.
I don't know how that's okay. Quite frankly, I do
not know how that's okay. So yeah, man, I think

(01:31:28):
the job that Nick ral has done with the bullpen
pretty good. Like I think they will go into spring training.
I think with most of us having a pretty good
idea of who should do what. Performance will have something
to do with that. Injuries will have something to do
with that, The overall performance of the starting staff might
have something to do with that. So that's good. This

(01:31:50):
isn't just gratuitously beat on the Reds like they have
fixed part of their team, but they've done nothing to
this other part. And so now you're left with the
framing of, hey, it's hard to win games ten to nine, Yeah,
try to win more games nine to three, try to

(01:32:11):
win more games five to one, try to win more
games seven zip. Yeah, you gotta win your share of
close games. You gotta win your share of low scoring games. Awesome,
That will be easier to do if you won more
lopsided games. You have a better chance of winning more
lopsided games with a better offense. It feels like the
front office is okay with an offense that the manager

(01:32:33):
is admitting is not great. Can you imagine Zach Taylor saying,
you know, let's be honest, we're probably not gonna have
a very good defense, but you know, gotta figure it out.
We might have to win games forty two to thirty five. Like, no,
you would go fix that part of your team. The

(01:32:56):
manager is telling you what the front office didn't do.
That's how I took it. On Friday night, I heard that,
and I'm like, yeah, Tito, you're right, Go tell Nick,
Go tell Bob, go, tell Phil, go tell Brad. Yeah, man,
we're probably not gonna lead the league in runs. If

(01:33:17):
you could say that in January. By the way, there's
still time. The season doesn't start for more than two months.
Your manager is telling you what you're gonna suck at.
So how about this choose to not suck at it.
Quarter after five, We're probably not gonna lead the league

(01:33:39):
in runs. Yeah, you're right, Tito, You're exactly right. So
maybe somebody should do something about that. This idea that
it's got to be one or the other is absurd.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
You're allowed to win games by more than one run.
You're allowed to have a team with a good bullpen
and a better off By the way, if the Reds
got Kyle Schwarber, you know what, they probably were still
not gonna lead the league in runs, but they were
probably gonna have an offense that was at least a
tick better, a little bit more difficult to prep for,

(01:34:16):
a little bit more difficult to navigate if you're a pitcher,
a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
Difficult to navigate late in the game with a bullpen.
We're probably not gonna lead the league in runs because
you know, but I I'd rather win games three, two
to ten to nine. I just want to win, man,
but I believe you have more of a chance of
winning three to two games if the night before three
to two win or a three to two game. You

(01:34:42):
want a game seven zip or do you want a
game seven to five? Seventeen minutes after five o'clock, I
want you to pretend that Elie dela Cruz did not
play for the Reds last year. We'll get to that
coming up here in just a bit in the Hall
Fame ballot and a question about Dan Pitcher on ESPN

(01:35:03):
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station twenty one after five. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moeger, thank you for listening. One
other thing here on the the Ellie dey la Cruz thing,
just to help you emotionally, which is what I'm here
to do. We could do one of two things. We

(01:35:25):
could just operate under an assumption, and if we do
this now, it'll make things, I think a lot easier.
And just operate under the assumption Ellie de la Cruz
will probably play for another team at the end of
his current contract or at the end of his team control,

(01:35:46):
and that's the assumption. I've been operating under for a while,
and that doesn't bother me. If he earns free agency,
he's earned the right to pick the team that he
wants to play for, assuming that team would want him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
And that's how it works.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
And I just think if you reconcile yourself with that,
it will make the departure whenever it comes, a lot
easier to swallow. Or we could do this and I
did this on Twitter over the weekend. If you're caught
up in worrying about Ellie post twenty twenty nine, which

(01:36:23):
to me just seems silly, like the Reds haven't won
a postseason series in thirty years, and I'm going to
waste energy and time on twenty thirty. Like I don't
care win now. I want to win while they have them.
That's been my thing the entire time. I don't know
where Ellie Dela Cruz is going to play baseball next decade.

(01:36:45):
I know where he's going to play baseball now, so why.

Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
Not win with him?

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
And by the way, if if you want to impress
upon him, why it's best for him to sign here.
Chances are winning and like winning more than eighty three
games would go maybe not a very long way, but
would go at least a little bit of the way.
So do this, like, let's let's pretend Elie Dela Cruz
played for the Chicago Cubs last year, or the Seattle

(01:37:14):
Mariners of the Los Angeles Angels, or the Miami Marlins
or the New York Yanke played for anybody else besides
the Reds. Let's let's pretend that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Let's pick that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:27):
Let's for our for the sake of our example, let's
say Texas Rangers. Ellie Dela Cruz played for the Texas
Rangers last year and this offseason signed a four year
deal to play for the Reds. Regardless of what the
money would be, You'd be pretty damn happy, wouldn't you.
I would be We'd be doing cartwheels. We would be

(01:37:49):
acting the way Tony Pike and I will act late tomorrow.
If you see shocks the world and beats Arizona, would
anybody say, well.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Yeah, but where's he going to be in twenty thirty? No,
the answer is no.

Speaker 3 (01:38:03):
They if they signed Ellie Dela Cruz to a four
year contract new free agent Ellie Dela Cruz, would anybody
be worried about twenty thirty of course not. It's not
apples to apples because he's in his thirties. But had
the Kyle Schwarber thing gotten done, like, would anybody be

(01:38:24):
worried about where he was going to go at the
end of those five years? No, Now there's a little
bit of a difference between four and five. I guess
my focus in my energy is kind of trained on
how is this team going to take advantage of having
a guy like that and having one hundred green and

(01:38:44):
having a really good starting staff and having players that
have come through their system. If between now in twenty
twenty nine, the best they do is eighty three wins
and a quick exit from the postseason.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
I gotta be honest with you.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Really care who is playing shortstop or centerfield for the
Reds in twenty thirty when while you have the guy, now,
build the best possible team around the guy, protect him
better than they did last year, get more guys on
base in front of him, and if he's hurt, tell
him that he can't play. Thank you, let's see here, Mike,

(01:39:22):
go ahead, thanks for hanging on. You're on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Good afternoon, Mike, How are you?

Speaker 6 (01:39:27):
Thank you well?

Speaker 8 (01:39:28):
I appreciate it. Well, I got so much stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:39:31):
I have to.

Speaker 8 (01:39:32):
Prioritize it because you won't give me enough ton which
I understand. Uh, first of all, you know what I love.
I always forget the guy's name that you're with on
to to put you know, the Bengals guy. Yes, and
it's only because I've hit so much damn Chimo, my

(01:39:53):
damn brank my memory. That no offense to you, Paul.
You're wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:39:57):
Well, Mike, here's here's here's the I don't want to
say the good news, but I'll counter that with this.
My memory stinks and I've never had chemo, so at
least you have an excuse.

Speaker 8 (01:40:08):
Well, he made me feel a little better.

Speaker 6 (01:40:10):
Thank you, bo.

Speaker 8 (01:40:11):
But your talk about the picture was so funny, and
you were talking about reasons why he might live and
Paul was saying could be this, could be that, could
be sunshine, and that just cracked me up. Yeah, wasn't
that funny?

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
It was funny. Paul's the best Paul. The hour with
Paul is my.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
Favorite of the week because we talked about things that
matter to a lot of us, but we have fun
with it no matter what. And that was the case
today and is the case every single week.

Speaker 8 (01:40:44):
Yeah, he's a wonderful guest.

Speaker 3 (01:40:46):
You can't have fun talking about sports. What can you
have fun doing?

Speaker 8 (01:40:51):
Exactly because in the scheme of things, it's down the
scale on importance.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
Correct.

Speaker 8 (01:40:57):
Really, but when he said sunshine, I thought, even though
I can't really be out and join it, but seventy
three degrees here in southern California with twenty one percent humidity,
the blue Pacific Ocean, the twelve thousand foot mountains. Okay,
I'll stop. I were you were talking about coaches? I

(01:41:19):
thought earlier today and I was thinking about the bit
my Bearcats, and I thought about Tommy the a hole Tverville,
who's a rotten human being ruin through when he cut
back the military. He held up military paid a couple

(01:41:39):
of years ago for some bull crunch. And then we
had Butch Jones. Haha, he was trying to get out
of here.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
No, we had but before, we had Butch before Tommy.

Speaker 8 (01:41:49):
Okay, then Satderfield, really Satderfield. Really we got lucky. We
got lucky with Luke, not lucky with Luke. But uh,
you know, Kelly leaves at midnight. Luke leaves at midnight.
What are we going to do on these football coaches
that you've seen?

Speaker 3 (01:42:08):
Well, but this is what they do. I don't think
that's exclusive to you. See, I mean you watch what
Lane Kevin did, right, But I don't.

Speaker 8 (01:42:16):
Care about other school I'm talking about you see, we can't.
You know. You know why bring this up is because Indiana.
I don't know how they got Signetti. I don't know
the details, but my God want.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
To find yes. Fine, yeah, no, I mean cast a
wide net.

Speaker 3 (01:42:32):
Now, you know you're I think you're referring to beyond
Tommy Tumberville coaches. You know, we'll see what happens with
Scott's Haderfield. But coaches who have left, I don't I
don't believe college football fans should worry about the departure
or worried about worry about.

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
The coach leaving.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
I think you simply hope that they do as good
of a job as they possibly can while they're in place.
And so that's why Brian Kelly, to this day I
think more about what he did while he was here
than his departure. And same for Luke Fickle and even
to a different degree, Butch John. Now I was not
a huge Butch Jones fan. But Butch did in his

(01:43:11):
three years. He had two seasons where they shared a
Biggiest championship. It's not like his teams were awful. Now,
I didn't like a lot about how Butch handled things
off the field. I didn't think he was necessarily a
great game coach. I thought he had a lot of
misplaced priorities. I didn't think he was as transparent as
maybe he could have been when he was looking to leave.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
But you know, he did win here.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
He did a you know, on the field win loss perspective,
did a good job. And at the end of the day,
that's all I care about. And I look at these
guys and I understand they're gonna leave for somewhere else,
and that's okay. Do you make the program as good
as it can be while you're here. And with a
number of those coaches they've had, the answers have been yes.

Speaker 8 (01:43:57):
Okay. I got two other topics will really quick. One
was the NFL playoffs this weekend. I got two questions
and then I got to get to the Reds with
my ultimate questions. Oh okay, well you think Stidham can
do the job? Remember to win that game.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
I'm very skeptical because I think Denver's defense has fallen
off and the Patriots have feasted on compromised opponents and
opponents who haven't been at their best at the sport's
most important position.

Speaker 8 (01:44:31):
And New Anglo I didn't realize Newlinglo has spent more
than anybody on free agency. They spent three hundred and
fifty dollars on free agency last year.

Speaker 3 (01:44:39):
Yeah, and like they've had a historically easy schedule. That's
not their fault. They caught a break because CJ. Stroud
was frankly non competitive at his position. The Chargers from
an offensive line perspective, were severely compromised. But they had
the best record in the NFL this year against the spread.

(01:45:00):
So they're covering big numbers sixteen to five and one.
It's less than a touchdown this week. I think they
cover it. I'll take the Pats.

Speaker 8 (01:45:09):
I got you, okay with the Reds Now we're talking
about these on and I'm the biggest proponent of the
of increasing the offense like you. But when I got
when I got into the numbers for runs per game,
the Reds weren't bad. They were fourteenths with four point
four to two runs per game.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
Yeah, middle of the pass.

Speaker 8 (01:45:28):
Only three teams.

Speaker 9 (01:45:29):
Were over five, the Dogs, the Dodgers, the Yankees, in
the Blue Jays, And of course Tony said, well, it's
you know, they scored twenty seven runs in that one game,
maybe fifteen here, and that's still not going to skew
dramatically one hundred and sixty two games.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
But I think that's what's frustrating about this offseason. They
didn't need an overhaul. They needed like one guy, and
they haven't gotten that one guy. Like nobody went into
this offseason saying you need like four new position players.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
You need to reconstruc lineup.

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
You needed to add something to it, and if you
did that, average offense could maybe be slightly above average,
and that could be the difference between winning eighty three
games and maybe winning eighty seven or eighty eight.

Speaker 6 (01:46:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:46:16):
Yeah, I know you're right. It's just such a quandary
that we're all frustrated. One last thing, I'll give you
the nine. I'll lay to nine with Arizona.

Speaker 2 (01:46:24):
Uh is that what the number is? I haven't seen. Yeah, nine,
it's only nine. Now, it's ten, it's only ten.

Speaker 8 (01:46:33):
Yep, check it. I'm telling you the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Yeah, I will. No, I believe that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:39):
I would have thought it would have been closer to
twelve and a half to thirteen and a half.

Speaker 8 (01:46:44):
Lloyd is Tommy Lloyd is going to spank West Miller.
I'm putting to bed. That's gonna be the way it goes.
I hate to say it, but that team is ten deep.
You don't even miss the replacements. And they're fifth in
off They're fifth in offensive rebounding and seventh in defensive
rebound that'sheard of.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
They're ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
I mean that statement has more to do with Arizona
than it does Cincinnati, quite frankly. And to say which
one about UC's deficiencies, we know what they are, the
Arizona Wildcats when they have been at their best this year.
I've watched them against UCLA, I've watched them against Yukon.
The most impressed I've been by any team at college

(01:47:26):
basketball this year was when they beat Alabama in Birmingham,
scored ninety six on them. They took a good Auburn
tea behind the woodshed. They haven't lost in Big Twelve play.
I watched them against Utah when they scored ninety seven.
Won that game by nineteen, and it wasn't that close.
Like they are a load. They the task the Bearcats

(01:47:48):
have in front of them. It's difficulty cannot be understated.
I'm surprised, and I'm trying to pull it up right now.
My computer is not cooperating. Nine seams.

Speaker 8 (01:48:01):
Long Tony said. The one reason that you see could
win the game is because Arizona is not a grete
three point shooting team.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
Yeah. Well, here's the thing, Mike.

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
I'm I'm I got my fan dual app open right now, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
And I'm looking at lines four tomorrow. Look, I see
fifteen an hour ago, I see I see fifteen and
a half.

Speaker 8 (01:48:27):
Holy what?

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
There was no way it was only There was no
way it was only nine.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
Dude.

Speaker 8 (01:48:35):
I googled it and said it was nine on some
wines and ten on the other. But you know that
doesn't mean that probably.

Speaker 3 (01:48:41):
I'm literally, I'm literally looking at it right now. I
see Cincinnati is getting fifteen and a half points.

Speaker 8 (01:48:48):
Well that's why you were so shocked. Well yeah, that's
on my do stuff like this. You always make me
look like a damn pool. I hate that, but anyway,
I appreciate you straightened me out. I know you got
to go.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
That's that's that's that's what I do.

Speaker 3 (01:49:02):
I I was, I was, I was. I was shocked
when you said it was only ten. That didn't make
any sense to me. And now there's I don't know
that I'm nuts about taking those points, but you know,
fifteen and a half, I'm more comfortable with the night, Mike,
I gotta run.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Thanks so much.

Speaker 8 (01:49:23):
Give me the Greek aegor. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
There you go. We'll well, we'll get into the Bearcats
and what happened on Saturday and the five guys that
baseball writers with ballads should have checked in the class
of twenty twenty six. Coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty.
It is twenty away from six o'clock. Excuse me, this

(01:49:46):
is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. College hoops tonight,
Miami is at ken State. The RedHawks take the floor
with a number next to their name for the first
time since Wally Zerbiak was playing in nineteen ninety nine.
They won an absolutely epic game with the Ian Elmer

(01:50:08):
buzzer beater to force overtime and then the Peter soooter
shot that won it with less than a second, a
go at Mallett Hall, Mullett Hall, not Millet Hall, and
the RedHawks survive, they get ranked tonight. They' you're taking
on a tough Kent State team the Saturday game you
see beat Aowa State. I know Mike before was talking

(01:50:28):
about Arizona, which, by the way, really quick. God love
my guy, Tony. I don't know where this thing came
from where. Arizona is not a good three point shooting team.
They're maybe not awesome. They're forty fifth in the country.
For comparison's sake, Cincinnati is three hundred and fifteenth. Arizona

(01:50:50):
is middle of the pack in the Big Twelve, seventh
in the Big Twelve. They shoot thirty seven percent from three.
Cincinnati is dead last in the Big twelve and thirty
one percent. Bearkat's defended well all season long. They're gonna
have to defend at an extraordinarily high level tomorrow night
just to make it close. And they're probably gonna have
to be better from behind the ark than they have
been all season long. But Arizona might not be awesome

(01:51:12):
shooting the three. And you know they've they've taken They've
taken decidedly less than everybody just three hundred and seven
per so they don't take a lot, but they make
a decent percentage. So maybe that's where Tony was coming from.
I don't know. Quickly on Saturday. Let's be honest, this

(01:51:34):
you see, you see football, you see basketball. Season hasn't
been that much fun. They're ten and eight, even with
the win over Iowa State. There's been more talk of
what's gonna happen at the end of the season than
what's happening on the floor during this season, and that's
just the way it goes. The fan unrest, the fan
disaffection is probably not going away just because they've won

(01:51:57):
consecutive games, including over the second ranked team in the country.
All of that said, I do think it is significance,
not so much that they continue to play hard, because
I think that should be baked in, But there's a
lot of noise, and the noise has been about stuff

(01:52:19):
like fans wearing bags and buyouts and are they gonna
move on from West during the season, and again, a
lot of this stuff comes with the territory. When the
season isn't going well and a coach is in its
current capacity for his fifth year, that hasn't made the
tournament yet.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
All the noise just comes with.

Speaker 3 (01:52:39):
The territory when you are in the position that Wes
Miller is in, and when you're in the position that
you see basketball is in. I do think with all
the noise swirling, at least for me, maybe for you,
but I think it has been fair to wonder if
the team's focus will waiver, and maybe to a degree,

(01:53:00):
will the effort waiver. I think it is significant that
neither of those things have happened. Might not make you
feel better about the season, might not make you feel
all that good about the coach, might not make you
want to believe that Wes should be the coach next year,
might not make you believe they have a remote chance

(01:53:22):
of even coming close to winning the game tomorrow. But
for all the criticism that Wes has gotten and to
a degree has deserved, for the way the team has played,
for his coaching, and then for some of the postgame
comments that we've talked about a lot, I think that

(01:53:42):
the next step where you know, okay, how much worse
can it get?

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
The answer was.

Speaker 3 (01:53:48):
The team looks checked out, or you see some guys
who look like they're starting to think about where they're
going to be playing next year, or the focus is
just off. I don't think the focus was off against UCF.
They did not win that game. The focus was not
off against Colorado, and the focus was not off against

(01:54:09):
Iowa State. And so I had had had the focus
been off, or had the effort not been there, you
and I both know I may have participated in it.
Folks would have come at Wes Miller with ferocity and
he would have had it coming. If you're going to
be poised to do that, when the opposite happens, then

(01:54:31):
he got to give credit. Doesn't have to mean that
you love the season, doesn't have to mean that you
love the coach, doesn't have to mean that you feel
any better about where this season may go.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
Look, they're ten and eight.

Speaker 3 (01:54:43):
Man Like, if you're if you saw that game on
Saturday and thought like, all right, let's do some NCAA
tournament math, good luck, because they're they're probably gonna have
only four more games they could afford to lose. It's
gonna be really hard to overcome the Q four loss,
even with that win over Iowa State.

Speaker 2 (01:55:05):
So look at it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:06):
On a more micro level, with all the stuff swirling.
This team has still looked pretty much locked in, and
they I thought, on Sunday or Saturday, they looked like
a team where it made sense what everybody's role was
gonna be. They shortened the rotation a little bit. The
playmaking guards played like playmaking guards. The guys they needed
to give them some good minutes off the bench gave

(01:55:27):
him good minutes off the bench. The dudes who are
supposed to be defensive stoppers like Buck Harris, played like
defensive stoppers. The bigs played like quality big twelve bigs
like the pieces on Saturday fit. The biggest and I
think most fair criticism of UC basketball for the last
couple of years has been, man, the pieces don't fit.

(01:55:47):
I felt like on Saturday against Iowa State, the pieces
fit and the focus was there. Those things may not
matter to you if you have advanced the conversation to
what's gonna happen at the end of this year. But
if you are still hoping to see the Bearcats compete,
if you're still holding out hope that they can still
make something of this season, those things are really significant.

(01:56:11):
Fourteen away from six o'clock. This is one of my
favorite nights of the year. It's one of my favorite
nights of the year because I love Hall of Fame discussions,
and let's be honest, we all love football, we all
love basketball, maybe other sports, the Baseball Hall of Fame
matters more than the others. It is the one that
is most widely discussed. It is maybe the one that

(01:56:33):
is most based on statistics. It is exclusive, but I
think the process makes more sense than football. The Basketball
Hall of Fame quite frankly, doesn't feel like it's that exclusive.
The Baseball Hall of Fame discussions we have are the
best ones. Unfortunately, I think what happens in the ballot's
going to come out a little bit after six o'clock

(01:56:53):
is as soon as the class is announced, we start
to talk about who didn't make it instead of focusing
on who did.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
And then when we talked about who didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:57:01):
Make it, there's anger, and then it's less fun. I
love pretending I have a vote. I do this with
the other sports too, but in baseball, I think it's
just a little bit more fun. So here it is
the annual list of players I would vote for if
I had a vote. Carlos Beltran has been on the

(01:57:24):
outside looking in so far because of the twenty seventeen
Houston Astro sign stealing scandal, and I think the price
he is paid he deserved to pay. He should not
be excluded from Cooperstown. His body of work pre twenty sixteen,
I'm sorry, pre twenty seventeen was exceptional.

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Every seventy war.

Speaker 3 (01:57:42):
Center fielder in baseball history is in the Hall of Fame.
Carlos Beltran is a seventy War Hall of Famer. Put
him in Cooperstown. I believe he'll get in. Andrew Jones
did have a really short peak, but what a peak
it was. Here are the center fielders with the most
year where they had a Gold Glove and hit thirty
or more home runs. Willie Mays eight, Barry Bonds seven,

(01:58:07):
Andrew Jones seven. I said centerfielders, I meant outfielders. That's
exclusive company. Willy Mays is obviously in the Hall of Fame.
Barry Bond should be, so should Andrew Jones. If Andrew
Jones is a Hall of Famer on this ballot, Tory
Hunter should be as well. A better offensive player, a
much longer peak was still an all start thirty seven

(01:58:30):
and frankly one of the most fun players to play,
to watch play for an entire generation, Chase Hutley, there
are only four second basemen who have an average five
point four war per one sixty two.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
Let me do that again.

Speaker 3 (01:58:49):
There are only four second basemen who had an average
of five point four war per one sixty two. All
of them are Hall of Famers. Chase Hutley has that
he should be the fifth. Jimmy Rollins I feel strongly about.
Jimmy Rollins was an MVP World Series champion, four Gold Gloves.

Speaker 2 (01:59:08):
No other shortstop can say that.

Speaker 3 (01:59:10):
Only shortstop in history with more than twenty four hundred hits,
two hundred homers, four hundred steals, and eight hundred extra
base hits, longest hitting streak by a shortstop since eighteen
ninety four, extraordinarily durable one hundred and fifty games or
more in ten plus seasons. Only two short stops in
history had more seasons of one hundred and fifty plus.

(01:59:31):
Jeter and Ripken both are in Cooperstown. Jimmy Rollins should
be in Cooperstown. One of my favorite pitchers to watch ever,
Felix Hernandez wouldn't put him in love. Cole Hamils Cole
Hamills once pitched a great postseason game against the Reds
of GABP.

Speaker 2 (01:59:46):
Wouldn't put him in.

Speaker 3 (01:59:47):
Edwin and Carnassion had an awesome career former Red.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
Wouldn't put him in. Wouldn't put in a Rod, wouldn't
put in many Ramires.

Speaker 3 (01:59:56):
I'd put in Bonds and Clemens. Neither guys are on
the list. A Rod and Manny actually tested positive. I
think it's fair to draw the line there, So there
you go. That's it should be in. It's ten away
from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (02:00:12):
Get the latest Bengals off season news on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
Anything you may have missed on this show you could
always get for absolutely free on the iHeartRadio app, including
our conversation with Paul Danner. Junior podcasts of this show
are a service of Long Neck Sports Grill. If you're
thinking ahead of the weekend, and who among us isn't

(02:00:42):
you got the AFC and NFC title games on Sunday,
You've got a full college basketball slate. You've got a
loaded college basketball night Tomorrow night locally, you can watch
all the action and so much more at Longneck Sports Grill,
beer selection is top notch. If you haven't had long
Nex wings, what are you waiting for? And the menu
is terrific. Long next three locations. You got Wilder, you

(02:01:04):
got Hebred, you got rich Wood. Each one of them
very easy to get to. Each one of them is
perfect for you and your buddies, maybe you and just
by yourself. Long Nex Sports Girl, go and check them
out and get anything you might have missed on the
iHeart Radio app.

Speaker 2 (02:01:22):
The music means the show is over tomorrow. What have
we got?

Speaker 3 (02:01:26):
Our guy Rick Boring on Xavier and NKU basketball. We
are looking forward to that and in a month Xavier
hasn't played in like forever. Like legitimately, every Biggies team
gets a bye and whenever it happens. Xavier obviously had
their bye this week and then they get set to

(02:01:49):
play their next game. It's like Xavier is an omaha
for a game against Creighton tomorrow. We will look ahead
to that and so much more with our guy Rick
bor and looking forward to it. Show is over. Gotta go.
Follow on Twitter at moegar, Instagram at moegar, and whatever

(02:02:11):
other social media platforms are out there chances are you'll
find me with a page that's dormant. Have a great night,
Thank you for listening. Thanks to Taran Plant for producing.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.

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