1/27/26 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

Mo helps you with the lack of offseason moves the Reds have made. Paul Dehner Jr joins Mo as they discuss there mock offseason sheet. Joe Brady is the new head coach of the Buffalo Bills and Bill Belichick not a first ballot hall of famer?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Now you've found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's mock all season time. Paul Danner Junior is here
from The Athletic to go through the spreadsheet. Good ad
for new Moeger ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks so much for listening.
Paul and I just sitting here discussing school being out,
which isn't annoying at all. Anything you want to know

(00:34):
about today's show you can go find on the iHeartRadio app.
And you could also go find on my Twitter feed
at moegar. Thanks to a share Facts credit union, you
could become a member just like me. Go to share
facts dot org. Hi, Paul, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (00:51):
A lot? A lot is going on.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
There's lots of moving parts, there's lots of stuff happening,
There's lots going on behind the scenes. There's lots going
on for you and I to discuss.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
Yes, even though this is maybe the most boring January
I've ever covered since I've been covering, the Bengals is
up there.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
It has continuity, is boring continuity is boring.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
There's really there's not a lot happening in terms of,
you know, all the other storylines across the NFL. Yeah,
coaching changes and big time free agents. People about to
go to Radio Row. Maybe they are about to go
to Radio Row and stir it up because the Bengals
have been too quiet.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
But I doubt that.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'm hopeful that there's some Joe Burrow nuggets that come
from Radio Row that we could then just pour water
on and get content out of.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, sure that would be great. Yeah, that's all we
like a chia pet of news that would be That
would be awesome. Yet, yeah, it is remarkably quiet. But
that's where you come in because we have the highlight.
When nothing happens, you make something.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Of the early portion of the off season, the mock
off season. If you don't know what the mock off
season is, if you go to the Athletic dot com,
Paul obviously covers the Bengals for the Athletic, there is
your chance to be Duke Tobin and Katie Blackburn all
at once. Where you get the spreadsheet, you get a
chance to do whatever you want with the roster within

(02:12):
the limits that the Google doc will will provide Yeah,
and you can cut players, You could sign players, You
could extend players contracts. You could even restructure Joe Burrow's
contract if you want, which we're gonna talk about. You
can draft specific players in the first few rounds, and
you could basically go through the exercise of building the

(02:32):
roster within the framework of the salary cap. It is
a fun exercise that could at times be absolutely mad.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
Why I like it and I give this same spiel
every year is that free agency is always filled.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
With oh, sign that guy, oh sign him, Oh.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
They should extend this person, without any thought of the
reality of what parameters are.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Now.

Speaker 5 (02:55):
In Cincinnati, unlike most other places, I can project the
parameters pretty closely because they stay pretty close within the
salary cap. They structure their contracts largely the same. They
don't do a lot of moving of money into different buckets,
and it tends to play out similarly every year. I
know I can take the cap number available, I can
subtract ten to fifteen million dollars off of it. I

(03:16):
can take each player's average annual value and take about
fifteen percent of it as the year one cap, and
I have been able to get the final number that
of the moves that they do within the projected number
that I come up with almost every year. And so
that's why this is great. You get a little bit
of the reality of the priorities and what you can

(03:37):
and can't do. You can't sign everybody. There is in
fact a pie that you have to adhere to, and
we can kind of pin it down to what it is.
And I think it's a good way to view what
some of the toughest decisions across the roster, across times
of the offseason calendar are that the Bengals are going

(03:58):
through right now.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Have you ever thought about taking this from a spreadsheet
to a pie?

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I love pie, of course, yes, but then we have
a lot of questions.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
About which pie should you use, you know, and try
to go pie graph, How what should it look?

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Understand, I understand, I like, I like this. I'm sticking
spreadsheet for now. But you know, you can do the
spreadsheet while you eat pie, which is also nice. Yeah,
we should have done that yesterday.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
So Paul's podcast The Growler jumped on it yesterday with
the great Charlie Goldsmith and we we talked about our
various spreadsheets. You talk about though, like what you can't do,
and so to me, the biggest takeaway is I can
still do a lot because I told you this on
the growler my in doing this exercise, what I want
the Bengals to do this offseason is I want them

(04:45):
to find five starting caliber free agents. Five guys who
have played in this league, who are established players and
you know that can that can run the gamut. You
can find guys who have been, you know, part of
winning teams and maybe are kind of putting out on
seventeen in there careers, and maybe some guys who aren't
at the top of their respective positions who are entering
their second contracts. But there's I wanted five starting caliber players.

(05:09):
We can have discussions about where they may go or
where they should address, where they should prioritize. I was
able to get five starting caliber players on the defense
in twenty twenty six, so we could talk about who
they couldn't go get. But my basic objective was close
to an overhaul that combined with the draft.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
I thought I did an overhaul. Yeah, I agree. I
came out of it feeling like this can be done.
And now it's easy to say, now you're not competing
against anybody to sign the guys.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
That you want.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
But there was, you know, one of my biggest takeaways
was the depth at some of the positions the Bengals
need to be tapping into. That being edge rusher, that
being linebacker, that also being guard with its Dalton Reisner.
If they don't get him, there are other options too.
But like I feel like, and even even to safety
and trying to figure that out, I felt I did.

(06:01):
There was a number of different players where you don't
have to win a bidding war. You don't have to
worry about somebody's price going up there because there's not
a lot of other players at his position available.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
You can hit that up.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
And if you can do that and find your guy,
I think you can do what you're saying, whether it's
five starters, whether it's you know, to me, it was
let's find an established veteran at every level of this
defense and spread that out and let those guys be
growing the leadership that they say that they are missing
and then finding the pass rush as well as a

(06:34):
part of that. But like it, some years I come
away and feel like, hmm, I don't think they're gonna
be able to do what they need to do.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
It doesn't feel like that coming through this today. No.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I mean you can cut players as a part of
this exercise, and I did that. That was more based
on the caliber of the player than it was the
dollar figure attached. Now to get done some of the
stuff I wanted to get done, I needed to cut
those players. But I didn't start by looking at the number.
Because you have money available, right, there's a ticker based

(07:06):
on how you use the whole thing. I didn't start
by looking at that going I need more room. I
created some more room and I ultimately did, But that
wasn't my first priority.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, last year was the opposite.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Last year.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Last year was it was just a mass gutting in
the cuts gave you, you know, thirty forty million dollars
what it ended up being, and this year it's like
five probably is probably where with Orange Books and Cody
Ford are kind of the only two that make a
lot of sense there. And so you do that and
you're you're sitting at a decent amount of money, but

(07:38):
you don't need as much like they. That's the thing
when you look at this, and I know that we
have criticized the roster but this was the advantage of
what we've seen happen with the twenty three class and
with some of the players that have started to come
along a little bit, you know, the a Marius mimss
of the World, Dak Cil and DJ Turner, and you
feel like you have some enough things at the hard

(08:00):
spots settled that it's just a matter of going through
and finding complimentary players. They don't They don't need to
go get a star like that. I don't think that
they're in a position outside of if you could get
a star pass rusher in some spot, obviously you're not
going to turn that down if that's available to you,
it makes sense. But outside of that, they don't need

(08:22):
star level players. They need to do something that they
have generally been kind of good at in free agency,
which is hitting these mid tier guys and trying to
do that. And if they're krying to do it again
like they have they did in twenty one on if
you heard about that they had some successful offseasons doing that, Yeah,
if they want to do that again, that to me
is what's available to them.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah. So the way I have framed it, and I
don't want to undermine what these guys accomplished before they
got here. But when the Bengals signed DJ Reader, there
was a Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Who's that?

Speaker 6 (08:52):
Now?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
You did a deep dive and you're like, you know what,
that's exactly the kind of guy they want, and they
overpaid him, and maybe they can't afford to do that
this year. But I'm looking for this year's DJ Reader.
Some might say it's DJ Raider. Who's Trey Hendrickson this year? Right?

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Trey Hendrickson?

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Remember when they got him, it was like, I don't know, man,
is he better than Carl Lawson? Did he just pile
up a bunch of you know, sacks on third and sixteen?

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Should obi a Woozie?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Was a player that it was like a right, you know,
film nerds might know who he is, not a household name,
and then you can keep going Von Bell, Mike Hilton,
And I've looked at this offseason from that perspective, who
is who are this year's version of those guys. The
one thing though, that I did that I just simply
do not think they will emulate, though they should, is

(09:36):
I went nuts at linebacker. So if you look at
my sheet, I have the Bengals signing to more of
that established players at linebacker and drafting a guy on
Day two Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight not even on
your shoe, not even on my sheet. So that's where
like I did it and tomorrow what Charlie said on

(09:57):
your podcast yesterday, I like my team, but those guys
are going to be on their spreadsheet. And so you
and I have talked about this. I am really curious,
more than anything else they do this offseason what the
approach is specifically at that position and how Barrett and
Demetrius fit in, because I don't have them fitting in
at all.

Speaker 5 (10:16):
Yeah, well they do, and I think that I think
that there's gonna be probably a compromise of sorts. I
think there's a couple of things that you can tap
into that they've talked about the need for leadership. Certainly,
linebacker is the position when you look to leadership, right,
it's the guy, the green dot running the room like
this is the guy, and it's where they most need it.

(10:37):
It's where they were most exposed playing two rookies last
year next to each other who no one knows what
they're doing, and so the whole defense doesn't know what
they're doing. Once those guys started to settle down, I
think you could see them starting to play better. And
that doesn't mean they don't still need somebody around them.
And I think one player that is a true leaderductive type,

(11:00):
and there's a that was you know, you look at
the linebacker list and we can talk about if you're
willing to go older guys that were productive last year,
Bobby Wagner, Mario Davis, Leavonte David There's these are older players,
but they but they were productive and exactly what you
would need in this room. And many with ties. And
then there's players into like thirty to thirty three range

(11:22):
that had a million tackles this year, Alex Singleton who
just played for Denver, or kay Nellis in Atlanta. A
lot of these have ties either to Mike Hodges or
somebody in Cincinnati. There's a number of different options, and
I think if you have one of those and you're
not asking Barrett and Demetrious to do so much, I
think you allow them to play a little freer. And also,

(11:46):
to be honest, you got to get dudes in front
of them.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Good linebacker play is directly connected to people keeping them
free in front of them and they didn't have enough
guys doing that, and they need to add more of that.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
And I think that can be enough, and that's anything
less than that is malpractice. If you're running back Barrett
and Demetrius, then we can say we saw this coming
from a mile away. It'll be the same thing last
offseason with some of the things that we were talking about,
whether it was pass rush or whatever. Yeah, that's obvious.
They clearly need that. It's clearly available from a number

(12:22):
of different players. I mean, that should be one that
should be an easy one to pinpoint and go get
the guy that you want that you think fits.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
There is a part of your spreadsheet that made me
raise my eyebrows. We will discuss that when we come back.
Paul Danner Junior follow him at Paul Danner Junior covering
the Bengals for the Athletic. You can do your own
spreadsheet right now Theathletic dot Com. Also the Growl of podcast.
Latest episode dropped earlier today. It's eighteen minutes after three o'clock.

(12:51):
Paul's here till four, We are here till six. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 3 (13:34):
This report is fifteen to thirty.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
is here. His mock offseason exercise is fun and you
should participate. The Athletic dot com. One thing that stood
out to me among all these different options cutting players,
acquiring players via the draft, acquiring players via free agency,

(13:58):
extending contracts, you had a Joe.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Burrow restructure option. I did. I did not select it.
Yeah good. I debated. I actually debated even putting it
in there. I was like, I don't, I don't because
it's that unrealistic. Well, I don't think.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
I think it in some ways defeats the purpose of
the exercise, but I like I put it in for
this reason. I do think it's unrealistic. It's probably not
gonna happen. But I'm here to present.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
The options, okay, And I think it's interesting to see
if you do your sheet without it, okay, and then
you look up at your team and say, what if
I had ten to fifteen million dollars, what then would
I feel about my team versus what I have now?
And think about the difference that it really could make,
and whether that's Cam Curl at safety or or you know,

(14:50):
actually getting a John Franklin Myers instead of not being
able to afford him or something like that. Like, if
you look at it that way, you that is an
option on the table. Joe talked last year, like look,
yeah you can. You can take he spelled it out.
You can take a salary, you confert it to bonus lo.
People do this pay the cap down the line for you.
Up cap space now gives you more cap space to

(15:12):
go win in the.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Doubling down on continuity and while everyone's promoting from within
with Joe Brady and you got Schwartz and and a
first year head coach in mentor and Big Mike's in Pittsburgh. Now,
like if there's a time to do it, so much
pressure on this year to make this thing work.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
If there was ever a time to do it, this
is the time. Also, other big time quarterbacks that have
signed big deals have done this around, you know, especially
once you get into a couple of years into the deal,
like push a little more down the line, hel Lamar
Jackson is probably gonna ask for a whole new deal
here soon. And Josh Allen did this a couple of
years into his extension and now he has another new
deal as well. Like all of this is to say

(15:57):
that you can do this. It's it's there to do.
I don't necessarily think that they will, but it's an option.
So I put it on there as an option. And
it was interesting to see the difference.

Speaker 5 (16:08):
Because you talked about how and we both did about
how it felt like you could really do what you
wanted to do with the thirty five that was on there. Well,
if you add another ten to fifteen, now you can
have the splash signing on top of it.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
That could be like Milton Williams was for New England or.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
On my spreadsheet last year?

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, me as well.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
But you know, these types of moves that really could
be a splash on top of your regular moves that
you're making.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
So I put it on there.

Speaker 5 (16:35):
I don't necessarily think that it is realistic, but it
should be a conversation piece if it hasn't been already.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Do you think Joe would be open to it?

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (16:46):
I think he sounded open to it last year. I
don't think it really affects him much other than to
give more space to this year's team. So I mean
he's gonna be getting the cash, yeah, I mean it's
up to the Bengals to be willing.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
To do it.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
When he talked openly obviously about t Higgins, he sounded
like a guy that's like, I can show some flexibility. Yeah,
So why would that not continue to be the case? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:10):
No, I mean I haven't there's no reason to believe
it wouldn't be.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
Yeah, And so what that means if that if that's
something that they discussed, you know, you would like to
hope that they discussed before free agency, but wouldn't be
the first time that something rolled over too far? Into something,
or maybe there's somebody available as for agency starts and
they are surprised that he's available on Friday of free
agency week and they come to joke like, we think
we can make this happen, or a trade becomes a

(17:35):
possibility that involves taking on a bigger salary or something
like any number of reasons can happen. The fact that
it is there, you know, if you really want to
win now in a time where you're all in on
continuity and a lot of upheaval and what still feels
like a wide open AFC, I don't know how you
don't watch this weekend and be like Jesus was right
there for the taking. It just feels like if there

(17:57):
was a time, now would be the time.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yes, I agree more. One other thing and we touched
on this a little bit on the Growler podcast. So
in your exercise, you have the option to extend players
already on the team, and then when you do that,
you assign a little bit more money to them for
their twenty twenty six salaries. So, for instance, you could
extend Chase Brown, you could extend DJ Turner, you could

(18:21):
extend Dax Hill. I extended DJ Turner I didn't extend
Dax Hill and not to spoil much of the podcast,
but Charlie and Was made the point that like, maybe
Dax hasn't quite shown enough at the outside corner position
that you're going to extend him, but will extend DJ.
And I'm kind of paraphrasing him here. The reason I
extended one and not the other is I feel like

(18:44):
that's almost too far beyond the Bengals' ability to do
something that simple.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, is that fair?

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Probably?

Speaker 5 (18:52):
I mean we have seen off seasons where they have
extended multiple of their own guys. Yes, it's not like
that's something that they've never done, so I'm not going
to say it's be.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
That it's two guys at the same position, and it
felt like that was like hieroglyphics to them when it
came to Chase and Higgins.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Well, and you're also in a position where they're entering
the last year of their deal and those have traditionally
drawn out. We also have the running back position, so
who knows that throws a lot of different ideas and
the things we have DJ Turner a one year breakout,
who does have injury history. You know, if they're all
always been about collecting information, and so yeah, I think

(19:30):
there's a lot of things probably working against it actually happening.
Seeing both of them, I think that they're gonna try.
I think they're gonna talk to all of them, right,
And I would throw Miles and Murphy in there as well,
but his fifth year option kind of makes it a
little different. But still I think they would try, and
I think it's certainly smart to bet early.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
I think you can get them. The whole point of
all these conversations we've had in recent years, you will
save money in the long run by betting on your guys.
What's better to bet on than two guys that have
panned out from recent draft classes that look like they're
becoming really great players. It just feels like.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
The obvious thing that they'll screw up and they'll make
it either or, and it doesn't have to be, but
it just or there will be.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
You know, we spent all this in free agency, so
there's not anything left over they can use tags in the.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Future or whatever. Like all of those things.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
I would say I'd be probably more willing to lean
in on Dax because I do think you can actually
get him cheaper. I think dj can be like, I
might have been the best corner in football, right, I'd
like to be.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Paid like that.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
I probably won't do that immediately, but I think Dax
you could because you know he's on the fifth year
option coming up, Like you may need to use that
tag for either Chase or DJ, and his number is
not going to be as high. But I think they
still believe in him as as a player, that he's
Maybe to me, i'd put him most.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Likely to get done out of those. Wouldn't it be
great if they just knocked him out? Yes, and you
could feel like you are building around these two pieces
premium positions and outside that you drafted and developed and
now you can retain and say this is what we're about. Like, yes, yes,
that makes all the sense in the world.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I mean there should be in an ideal world, not
the same sort of event, but the dual press conference.
Here's Dax, here's DJ. They both got their deals done,
let's talk about it. I feel like there's almost no
chance that happens. For whatever reason. Maybe DJ does say, oh, man,
like I'm gonna go have a great year, and then dude,
here I am. Maybe, but signing two guys similar stages

(21:37):
of their career with one year left on their respective
deals to contract extensions. This offseason feels like something that
they're just they're not going to be able to wrap
their brains around successfully enough to get done.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Because these things always end up in a fight, right
they always that's tract. So that to me, I just
you know what, I'll get one done and leave the other.
So for me, I just I signed. It could have
been it could have been one or the other, but
it wasn't gonna be both.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
You just want to have I know, not you because
you love the content, but like you know, it's just
gonna fall in line. It just feels destined. These guys,
they they are so perfectly set to the template of
the previous players that we've seen come down this line.
It just gets dragged out, it gets fought over. So
the idea that they would maybe change their ways, and

(22:21):
you know, I would be the first one to stand
up and say this is different if they actually went
out there and did it without the haggling and all
the other stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yeah, but it's hard to say that. You see that
coming a little bit later on.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm gonna make you do something that every football writer
has to hate.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
We'll get to that shortly before four o'clock. This isn't
about the Jacksonville Jaguars thing again, is it?

Speaker 3 (22:42):
No good? I don't want to have to go back
down that. No, I have to hate that.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
This has nothing to do with the Jacksonville Jaguars. No,
I forgot about that.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
League, Lyn Jones. No, We've moved on.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I'm gonna but I'm gonna make you do something that
I think every football writer has to hate. I need
you to weigh in on the world's greatest athlete, uh,
the overreaction to the snow game in Denver. But first
we have to talk about Joe Brady being the coach
of the Bills great After sports headlines, Paul Danner Junior
from The Athletic and the Growler podcast, This is ESPN

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Sincy three sixty tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
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the Buffalo Bills. He has been their offensive coordinator for

(24:49):
the last season and a half and in revenues. They're
still waiting to find out if their games will be
on tvnf I'll have any money to sign any players,
Paul Danner Jr. From It's true they're waiting, true, right,
that's the the or LIMBA gotta find out are the
games going to be on TV? And if so, will
we get any money from it? And if if so,

(25:10):
they can they can sign some more guys. Maybe as
long as the other teams wait around to see if
the Red's TV situation, sure they will. Oh yeah, I
can imagine all those other clubs like Bill Bob, Hey, Nick,
let's just wait for you, wait for you. Yeah, let
us fan out, let us know, and then well then
we'll compete for a u haaneos Horez. The Joe Brady
thing is going to be hilarious in a not fun way.

(25:33):
If if he coaches Josh Allen to unprecedented heights and
Joe Burrow and Zach Taylor go seven to ten.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Next year, sure, Yeah, I mean, are you ready for that?
I guess are you ready for that? I don't care.
I mean, and there's a lot of things that'll be
hilarious next year. If this team goes seven and ten,
that's one of them added to the list, right, I
don't you know?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Folks have wanted Joe Brady to be the Bengals coach
since before Joe Burrow played a game here.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
Yeah, and now we'll see if he's a good coach
or not. Because it's one thing to be a good coordinator,
it's another thing to now be the head coach. And
we'll see if that's who Joe Brady is.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Maybe he is they maybe the coup.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Happened in Buffalo and this was all everybody saw. They
didn't want Joe Brady to walk out the door. They'd
never problem with Sean McDermott walk out the door. I
don't know. Maybe this was Josh Allen pulling some rank
and being like, I want my guy. We can't let
him leave.

Speaker 5 (26:29):
I have no idea I understand why people would be like,
it'd be great to have Joe Brady here. We don't
know if Joe Brady's a good head coach.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
I just maybe he will be we just I have
been told, never been a head coach.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I have been told for the last seven years, Joe
Brady is the next big thing in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Even when he was flaming out in Carolina.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yes, yeah, because he can then come to Cincinnati and
take over here. That didn't happen. So if it works
out in Buffalo, just stand by be ready. Yeah, sure
it sounds it sounds great. I mean, he obviously is
smart when he when he's had Joe Burrow and Josh Allen,
it has gone really well. A little tear came to

(27:08):
my eye on Saturday night when I opened up social
media and I saw a tweet from Gino Stone picture
of him and his his Bengals uniform thrown up deuces. Yeah,
I'm guessing saying goodbye to his fans in Cincinnati.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
All right, who are those?

Speaker 8 (27:27):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I don't know who they are, but I thought, like
you know, it hasn't worked out. Yeah, and Gino Stone
played poorly so often that he became the subject.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Of my ire. But there's a part of me that like,
I'll kind of miss picking on him.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah, I mean, he was a pretty central part of
your program. Firstus oh yes, yes, yeah, I mean yes,
he named your dog after him. I did so, So
what I wanted to do is I was on Saturday
night while watching.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
The Bearcat game, which was how that go.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
It was like watching a team of Geno Stones play
against Arizona.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Stateium of Geno Stones.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I was looking at some of the replies and I, well,
I felt like Gino probably didn't need to throw up
deuces to Bengals fans. And then I thought like maybe
this is ironic, like kind of funny way of going, Hey,
I know you're not going to miss me, so see ya.
The replies were not nice, like, for instance, Travis said
to him, hey, you missed three tackles making this tweet.

(28:33):
Tyler Uh just replied with a picture of a parking cone. Yeah,
let's see. Sorry it didn't work. This is from Jungle Rats.
Sorry it didn't work out. But you made a lot
of bad business decisions this year that hurt the team.
Now this, this person here, the legend Jordan, one of
the worst safeties we've ever had. In my opinion, you
won't be missed. So I am oh here, Thank God,

(28:57):
say hello to the Birmingham Stallions for me. Not bad.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
I like that one.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, and a lot of folks were really nice. Hey,
best of luck just wasn't a good fit. God bless you,
thank you for your time as a Bengal. So people
were this guy wrote something really profane that I can't
say on the air, but anyway, there was a slight
moment of sadness that this two year run that I

(29:23):
have not enjoyed in the least but have mind for
content is over.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Genostone learning what the Bengal social media admins have been
experiencing for.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
A while now.

Speaker 9 (29:37):
That would always crack me up, as like Bengals social
media like would be sitting here and they would like
post something and they would underneath that in the replies
of that post would just be nothing but getting absolutely
crushed no matter what it is.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
It could be intercept cancer yes right, and below it
is just.

Speaker 5 (29:59):
Awful profane things about whoever posted this And so ginostone
falling in line with.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
That, Yeah, my grandmother passed away in twenty twenty and
I posted a photo of her as a young woman
and said, you know, lost my grandmother yesterday. This woman
helped raise me and if I recall correctly, the the
tweet immediately afterward was about how John Brannon sucks.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
So it's I mean, such as Twitter, right, if you're
gonna choose to be on there, this is what it is.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Speaking of Twitter, do football writers despise having to address
posts sent to the world by Dove climbing?

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Oh? Is this the bane of your existence? What do
you remember? Do you this happened to me?

Speaker 10 (30:48):
No?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
This was.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
It was about T Higgins And it was maybe three
years ago, okay, right before. I mean it was in
like the round this time of year, and I wrote
a story something about things going on in the offseason
and had a section about what was going to happen
could happen with T Higginson, And it was taken so

(31:12):
far out of context as you could ever imagine. Got
Kleiman tweeted out everybody put it out there. People were
just crushing me left and right, to the point I
had to put up a like three part reply tweet
explaining how stupid this is, that this is what's actually
put out there, including screenshots from inside the story of
what was actually written.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yes, truly, m L Football.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, Dove Kleinman like.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
The absolute worst, the absolute rage baiting aggregation football.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yea, those are so I have been dubbed before, so yes, don't.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Climban tweeted out a video of Davante Adams, who played
in his fifth conference championship game for the Rams and
they lost, and as he's talking very patiently with reporters,
there's a beer, like have you seen this tweet? I
don't know that I saw the So there's Davante. I
gotta there's Davante and the beer, and Dove or Dove writes,

(32:12):
this is not a good look. It's not not a
good look adult having a beer a beverage after their
season of getting in like twenty car crashes is over.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah. Probably, I mean par for the course, okay, right,
I mean this is this is this is what it
is like, this is how he makes money. What is
the thing I can say here that would get most
the most people mad? And in my comments, Dove has.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Three hundred and eighty point one thousand people following him up.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
So gross everything about it, I just it's, well, here's
the thing. Like in our job, my job is to
try to communicate things as clearly as I can and
what I know, and that's all I try to do.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
And so when you spend so much time doing that,
and then you just get some other factor coming in
and just trying to absolutely undo all of that, and
then it's like out of the bag.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
You know, anytime anything goes viral, Yeah, like you can't
stop it. This is what people now are gonna think,
all because this guy's just trying to find a way
to do rage bait on the internet and you're the victim.
Yeah it's it's awful, but there's nothing you can do
about it except not go on the internet.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
The AFC Championship game, the second half was played in
a snowstorm. I liked it, loved it. I thought it
was great television. I thought it made that game and
added an element of cinema to an already important game,
made the game feel even bigger. It put a premium
on strategy, put a premium on points, put a premium
on coaching the game the right way early because you

(33:59):
knew the snow was gonna come now. In response to this,
many have countered that this is why they should play
those games on neutral sites.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Get out of here.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Is that the most ridiculous take that's out there.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
I mean, I.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
Probably has something. Yeah, Yeah, you can't drink while having
that take. I don't know like this is this drives
me nuts in that Do you want it to be
more like college football where they're playing No, where fans
have to try. No, you earn the right to play
in your home and your surroundings and your place and
your and you are a team built to play and

(34:35):
be a be a part of whatever the weather conditions
are in your town. You only think Broncos players aren't
prepared to go play in the snow. Maybe didn't work
out for him this time, but whatever, like they know
what they're getting themselves into.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Any what do you remember about the Freezer Bowl?

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, I don't remember anything because I didn't ten people
listening that were all the one hundred thousand people that
were all there. They they remember.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
You remember it for these types of things? Do you
remember the snow games? And the other reason why I
love it is like I I enjoy watching Sundays of
golf tournaments. Okay, not because the weather. Every course is different. Yes,
it plays to different strategies. You've got to be able

(35:17):
to be a consistent winner to prove that you can
win different ways, that you can handle different things. You
can have certain shot shapes, you can you can handle
different challenges on each course, the same way with going
through an NFL playoffs. Okay, if you want to go
and make it to the super Bowl, you've got to
win different ways, in different conditions, against different types of

(35:37):
teams and different environments. That is the beauty of football.

Speaker 5 (35:41):
At least it is for another five to ten years
until we're on nothing but all these billion dollars you know, dumps. Yeah,
and I hate that that's going away little by little,
you know, the Cleveland's and probably Chicago's, I guess, and
like whatever, all these places that are building these makes
me kind of sick because that's when you see the

(36:01):
old highlights and there's just there's snow on the ground
and stuff like That' Like it's great, that's the sport.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yes, it's the fun of the sport.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
Yes, And so I hate that that it's we're trying
to turn it into this perfect environment and I just
I hate that.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I love games like that.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
Yeah, threw it off, Yeah, it made it different, But
there were different ways that they had to go about
trying to win that game.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
And uh, the Patriots did in Denver did.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Who was the best coach in the AFC North. Right now,
you got Mike McCarthy has won a Super Bowl. You
Jesse Minner, a hot young assistant Cincinnati Ties, Zach Taylor
has coached them a super Bowl, and then the head
coach of the Cleveland Browns like Harvey the Rabbit right now,
I don't know who it's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Whoever says yes, Uh, you can't say Jesse Minner.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
He may be right.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
We don't know anything. It's the same thing as about
Joe Brady. We don't know anything about him as a
head coat coach. Because you're a good coordinator does not
mean you're a good head coach, is it?

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Mike McCarthy. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (37:08):
He certainly doesn't have the tools that you would think
he would need around him to make that thing work.
Right now, and it's not whatever's gonna happen in Cleveland,
I guess I guess it's Zach Taylor.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I don't you know.

Speaker 5 (37:19):
I think that's they're probably all a put him in
a hat right now.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Did you watch any of Mike McCarthy's press conference in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
I saw a few snippets.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I say this as someone who hates getting dressed up.
No one has ever looked less comfortable in a suit.
Then I got it right here, nobody has ever looked
less comfortable in a suit.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Look at look at that. It looks like it looks
like it's a little too tight around the neck. Maybe
it's like the same one that he used for his
his Cowboys press conference. And he's like put on a
couple albe.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Since he looks like an eleven year old kid who
has to go to a funeral and mom's gonna make
him get dressed up. But he hasn't been a JC
penny in like two and a half years, and so
they're squeezing him into this. And again, I hate wearing suits.
No one has looked less comfortable in a suit than
Mike McCarthy.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
And I feel like no town would have more accepted
him showing up and what you're used to seeing and
did the you know, just like a little little hoodie
or whatever and just rolled on out there. They've been like, yeah,
our type of guy.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Major opinion on one more thing. Did you watch the
guy climb the building on Netflix?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
I again I saw I did not like put in
the whole time, but I did see some of.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
The greatest athlete in the world. Tell me who's better.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I mean, tell me who's better Miles garretts. Miles Garrett's
a terrific football player, I mean bravest, most fearless.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Degree of difficulty. What Miles Garrett does versus my guy
climb in the building? Look, I know nothing. I don't
remember the guy's name. I know nothing about competitive climbing.
I was transfixed by that on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Would you even do that on the side of your house?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Absolutely not. I don't know to climb on my roof.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
I'm not even getting the ladder out. Yeah, I had to.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Like read I hung a new net on our driveway
basketball hoop. I didn't like doing that. Yeah, my guy's
climbing buildings. This was not on my radar. I met
my daughter's dance competition. One of the dad says, you're
gonna watch the guy climb the building. I go, hell
you talking about I go on my phone because dance
competitions last like five and a half hours. I'm like, well,
we're watching this tonight. Guy's gonna climb a building without

(39:23):
a harness, without a rope. She's like, you're gonna watch that.
I'm not and then after thirty minutes, I'm like, well,
I gonna watch this guy might die on television, like
this may he may fall.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
This is good.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
I mean it's not good if that happens. Yeah, that
sounds bad, right, And he's stopping and posing for photos
and he's like he's got a microphone. He's narrating it
single greatest athletic feet I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah, I mean it's breaking new ground.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, when the Bengals have boring months, this is the
crap I bring up to see it.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
This is it. Now you've got me thinking about it.
I could be a better athlete. If I could have
put him on the spreadsheet, I would have. Yeah, I
mean he could come in here something. He could probably
make a few more tackles than Genos down And with that,
we'll talk to you next week, all right. Thanks Paul Danner.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Jor do the mock offseason exercise at Theathletic dot com.
Follow him on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior. Listen to
the Growler podcast we go through the spreadsheet. Charlie Goldsmith,
myself and Paul watch it. Listen to it and you'll enjoy.
We'll see you next week. Thanks man, Paul Danner Junior.
It is seven away from four o'clock. I'm mowegor thank

(40:29):
you for joining today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 7 (40:38):
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(40:59):
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The left two lanes are blocked off from an accident
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Speaker 3 (41:10):
This report is sponsored by Staples.

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Happy. That's happy.

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Enter it now.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Let's be on fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
I don't know what this is gonna mean for us.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
I just saw and I first of on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Here Quinn send us the story Tony and I.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Twin Peaks, a parent company at twin Peaks is gonna
go through bankruptcy now they say yeah, they say that
they're going to continue to operate the restaurants. I don't
know what this means for the Tony and Mo Football Show.
I've not talked with our staff. I don't know if
we're back at Twin Peaks in Westchester and Florence.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
That is awesome.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
The Tony and Mo Football Show obviously airs every Monday
during the football season. It's been at Twin Peaks since
twenty twenty. Twin Peaks stepped up during the COVID year,
and you could understand why. A lot of local businesses,
smaller businesses, you know, just just trying to survive during
the pandemic. Twin Peaks stepped up, said we'll take it,
and they hadn't yet built one in Florence. And so

(42:12):
we have been proud to call Twin Peaks home every
Monday during the football season for six years. That said,
over the course of those six years, I will often
see folks on social media who are like, you should
do the Tonyamo Football Show. It my neighborhood bar, or
you should do it. This could be your opportunity, this

(42:32):
could be your chand this could be your favorite bars,
opportunity to have Tony and I Tony Remote Football show
on Mondays, just saying we will see. I don't know
for sure can Dion Sanders legally legally find his players
are legal expert Stuart W. Penrose from Manila Law Group
is going to be with us in thirty minutes on

(42:54):
that and so much more. Joe Brady is going to
be the new coach of the Buffalo Bills. Joe Brady
was Joe Burrow's passing game coordinator and widely credited with
how that LSU offense just exploded in twenty nineteen, single
greatest college football offense maybe ever now. Having a lot

(43:16):
of dudes had a lot to do with it. But
Joe Brady won the Broils Award that year for best
assistant coach in all of college football. And if you remember,
and I'm sure you do, in the months leading up
to the twenty twenty NFL Draft, there were lots of takes,
lots of different angles that people explored. One of them
was Joe Burrow isn't going to really work out in

(43:39):
Cincinnati without Joe Brady. Now my take on it, and
I believe this to this day. I had never heard
that kind of discourse, and I remember doing topics around
this where it was, what other quarterback has gone from
college to the pros as the number one overall pick

(44:00):
and there be this need to attach the college offensive
play caller to the quarterback at the next level. I
could not recall another quarterback where you know, it was, well,
they're not going to have the dude who called plays
for him in college.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Like, we've never done that.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
But there certainly have been no shortage of people who
have wanted to see a Joe Burrow and Joe Brady reunion.
When the Bengals had an offensive coordinator change a couple
of years ago, you can find folks who said, well,
look at make Joe Brady the offensive coordinator. There were
folks who believed when the Bengals drafted Joe Burrow they

(44:40):
should hire Joe Brady to be the quarterbacks coach or
give him a job on the staff.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Well, now he's going to be the head coach of
the Buffalo Bills.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
He took over his offensive coordinator for Ken Dorsey a
year and a half ago, and we'll see, we'll see
if he can help get that team over the hump
that they've just run into instead of clearing. Pretty much
for this entire decade, we'll see this. You know, we've
talked a lot about the Bengals are an interesting team

(45:09):
for a lot of different reasons. One of the reasons
is just the dichotomy that exists between them and everybody
else in the AFC North free teams making coaching changes.
I'm guessing the Browns will have a head coach by
the time the season begins. The Steelers have Mike McCarthy.
Mike McCarthy won a Super Bowl with the Green Bay Packers.
Mike McCarthy had some success with the Dallas Cowboys. Mike

(45:33):
McCarty goes home, he'll coach the Pittsburgh Steelers. That feels
like a team that is in badly is badly in
need of a roster reset. Instead, they're talking about bringing
back forty two year old Aaron Rodgers to play quarterback
in Baltimore. Feels like the Ravens are leaning into that
franchise is DNA with a defensive guy. It's Jesse Mintter,

(45:53):
which I'll be honest, there's a part of me that
wants to have wants to see Jesse Mintter have some
level of success even it's the Ravens because he's a
Cincinnati guy, was a graduate assistant at U See and
Rick Minner, I think, for the most part, had such
a positive imprint on you See and Jesse went to
Mount Saint Joe and so you're root for local people.
But it's an interesting hire. It's a first time head coach,

(46:15):
but easily one of those hotter assistant coaches names that
you knew was going to be a part of this cycle.
We'll see what the Browns do. And so, yes, there
is this contrast that is really interesting. One team in
the division stays with its coach, stays with its de
facto general manager, stays with its entire coaching staff. We'll
see if other assistants get plucked. Everybody else is changing.

(46:39):
But to me, the contrast in terms of fan reaction
that is going to be most interesting is going to
be Bengals versus Bills, because the Bills now have a
head coach that's Joe Burrow's guy, or it's at least
the guy that Joe Burrow in college was connected to,
a guy who was credited for a lot of Joe

(47:02):
Burrow's success. And let's be honest, throughout the course of
Joe's time in Cincinnati, it's been fair. There's been a
constant drumbeat of folks wondering, would it just be better
if Joe Burrow had a different play caller? Would it
just be better if Joe Burrow had a different head coach?

Speaker 11 (47:19):
How do you not.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Feel that way? They haven't won a title with him,
they haven't made the postseason with him the last three years.
Obviously there are larger reasons for that, Joe's health and
Joe playing for a team that has put together bad defenses.
But imagine what it's going to feel like if the
dude that a lot of folks have wanted to see
Joe be reunited with ends up having the sort of

(47:43):
success that has eluded the Buffalo Bills for the entirety
of their franchise, while the Bengals remain stuck in the mud,
on the outside of the postseason, looking in or maybe
in the postseason, but not quite bona fide championship contention.
It's gonna be interesting. Joe Brady, head coach of the
Buffalo Bills. We'll see.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
If it works.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
I do encourage you to uh to participate in Paul's
mock offseason spreadsheet. It's a fun exercise. It doesn't have
to take up much of your time. I'm sure for
some it might be more fun than doing any actual work.
It's it's a fun exercise. It's not the most exact thing.

(48:27):
You know, you're you're obviously not outbidding other teams for
free agents, and you know you can only do so
much with what the free agents are actually going to
earn when they sign with their teams this offseason. But
it's it's still a fun exercise. Where I think the
Bengals are most interesting isn't linebacker. Because if you do

(48:53):
this and I invite you to, you're gonna do what
I did. I'm guessing you're gonna do what I did,
and you're gonna go nuts at linebacker. I had them
signing Bobby Wagner. Bobby Wagner's a thousand years old, still
played at a really high level for the Washington Commanders.
This year. I'm looking for a dude who could just
be in position like that's at linebacker more than anything else.

(49:17):
A guy that's in the right place in position can
effectively communicate to his teammates where to go, and just reliable,
you know, where he's gonna be. He may lose a step, age,
may start to take its toll, but you know he
is going to line up in the right spot, know
what the assignment is, and he's not gonna make any

(49:38):
mental mistakes. I also had them signing Quincy Williams, who
this season with the Jets got benched relative bargain contract.
He's made the case. Look, dude, I could play, man,
I could ball out. I just need to be in
the right scheme. Okay, Luanna Roumo does he at the
right scheme. I also had him drafting a linebacker in
round three, Jacob Rodriguez. Now that's not to say that

(50:01):
there aren't other options available, but the point being I
just said to Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, Yeah, man,
not exactly goodbye, but you're gonna have to figure out
a way to earn playing time ahead of a guy
that I drafted, and ahead of dudes who have played
in this league for a while. Where I think make

(50:23):
believe sort of runs counter to reality is it's hard
to imagine, and maybe we're wrong about this, but it's
hard to imagine that the Bengals just look at both
of those guys and say neither of you are going
to play a big role in the defense at the
beginning of the season.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
And so one of.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
These central offseason storylines, one of these central training camp storylines,
is likely to be can either Demetrius Knight or Barrett
Carter proved to be better in their sophomore seasons than they.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Were as rookies.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I think it's also equally equally hard to imagine that
the Bengals don't address linebacker. But it's also kind of
hard for me to imagine the Bengals just say to
both those dudes, like, good luck on special teams, good
luck making the team, good luck finding playing time behind
these dudes that we signed and these guys we drafted,
We'll see it is I think you would agree impossible

(51:29):
to imagine that they don't address pass rush doesn't necessarily
have to come off the edge, although that would be
fine if it did. Duke Tobin's megapress conference a week
and a half ago, if there was one overarching takeaway,
it was pass rush is king his words, not mine.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Pass rush is King. That tells you we're.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Gonna address the pass rush, and they I think if
you've watched the team over the last couple of years
could use pass rush help up the middle. So it's
it's tough to imagine the Bengals not addressing the defensive
line in both free agency and the draft. We'll see
what they do with safety specifically, how aggressive are they

(52:11):
at linebacker? And the part of this exercise that I
enjoyed the most was being aggressive at linebacker. I'm not
the one, though, that used draft choices on two guys
last year and had them play this season. Will the
Bengals lean into those guys benefiting from the accumulation of experience?
Will they lean into those guys benefiting from bringing in

(52:31):
one linebacker? You know, he's just an example. There are
many others out there. But if it's a Bobby Wagner
and Matt Mulano somebody like that, like a guy that
you could tell Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight to like
tether themselves to in order to learn, in order to
learn what they do there. I think the line between

(52:54):
total defensive overhaul and major off season defensive tweaking is
right there at the linebacker spot.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
I overhauled it.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I just said to Night and Carter, Yeah, thanks, Uh,
maybe you can still make the team, but you're gonna
have a really uphill battle. We will see sixteen after
four o'clock. By the way, our phone lines are open.
If I've said anything remotely interesting five point three, seven
four nine, fifteen thirty and eight six six seven oh
two three seven seven six.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
If you have read anything about the Reds.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
And what they would kind of like to do with
the weeks that are left in the offseason, you've seen,
you've seen it suggested that they've got a way to
find out what their TV situation is gonna be. And
there's probably a lot of validity to that. Let me
ask you a question. Was that not the case two

(53:50):
months ago? We'll get to that next. On ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Cincinnati's Cincinnati and iHeartRadio station g Garanteed Human ESPN fifteen thirty,
I Heard Radio.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
College Hoops on ESPN fifteen thirty Tonight, Kentucky and a
good Vanderbilt team, one that recently broke a three game
losing streak. Tip off at nine o'clock from Nashville. The
game's on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game at seven point
thirty also in the area. Tonight, team Miami Renhawks look
for a twenty first consecutive victory to open up the season.

(54:28):
Travis Steele's team takes on UMass. That is also a
nine o'clock tip off from Mallett Hall. I'm gonna go
attend that game. The nine o'clock tip offs are easier
for me to make than seven o'clock. Travis Steele was
with us yesterday in studio. If you missed that conversation,
go listen to it. That's somebody right before the show

(54:48):
who's not at all of Miami fans say to me,
you and Trav were really good yesterday. Trav was good.
I was me. But if you missed the conversation, it
was a terrific I think you'll enjoy it even if
you're not a Miami fan. It's on the iHeartRadio app,
or you could go to my page at ESPN fifteen
to thirty dot com. Podcasts of this show are a

(55:09):
service of Long Neck Sports Grill. By the way, if
bouncing back to Kentucky, if you're a Kentucky fan, you're
thinking to yourself, want to go watch the game tonight?
Long Necks Wilder, Hebron rich Wood, come on, can't beat
it no better place to watch college hoops. We're gonna
find out if Deon Sanders can get away with finding

(55:30):
his players from a lawyer.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Our lawyer, Stuart W.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Penrose, Manila Law Group coming up in in ten minutes.
So no real Reds news again, no real Reds news
this weekend because apparently they're in limbo waiting to find
out what their TV deal is going to be this year.
And you know, they've opted out of their deal with
FanDuel Sports Network. There's a chance at least that Major

(55:56):
League Baseball will take over the broadcasts, and the future
of local TV rights across this sport is very much
in question, and the nuts and bolts of that are
a topic for a different discussion. But their TV deal
is up in the air, and it's fair to wonder, like,

(56:17):
how you.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Going to see the games, where the game's gonna air, how.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Are they going to be distributed all that stuff, and
also how much money will they get from their TV contract?
I have no idea. Apparently the Reds don't either, and
so what you're reading about their possible interest in players
like eu Haaneo Suarez, who is still out there, is
they need to find some degree of certainty and clarity

(56:44):
regarding their TV deal before they make a significant addition
to the team like eu Haaneo Suarez. Fine, now, I
don't exactly expect the Pittsburgh Pirates or the New York
me that's where the LA Angels or God forbid the
LA Dodgers to go. You know what, We'll wait right Cincinnati,

(57:07):
figure out what your TV deal is going to be,
and then once you know, we'll make our offers to
these players that you may be interested in. I can't
help but wonder this. The Reds did not get Kyle Schwarber.
We have spent weeks now debating the seriousness of the
Reds pursuit of Kyle Schwarber. But isn't it fair to

(57:32):
ask this if they don't know what kind of money
they're gonna get from their TV deal today? Did they
really know what kind of money they were going to
get from their TV deal six seven weeks ago? Gotta
hold off on spending any money on Kyle on au

(57:54):
Haano Suarez, But you didn't have to hold off on
spending any money on Kyle Schwarber? Was was there was
there more financial certainty six weeks ago? Two months ago
when they were apparently engaged in this pursuit, pursuit of

(58:14):
the reigning National League home run champion, that suddenly there's
there's no clarity, there's no certainty. You knew two months ago,
which sure we're gonna get from your TV contract, which
you knew was something you were gonna opt out of,
and now you don't know that makes sense to you?

(58:35):
Five point three seven four nine fifteen thirty Does that?
Does that make sense? You're not sure if you could
afford a third basement or a DH now because of
a move that you made. By the way, you had
every reason to maybe make that move, which was opting

(58:58):
out of the TV deal two months ago, when you
were offering Kyle Schwarber reportedly twenty five million dollars per year,
a deal that would have totaled one hundred and twenty
five million dollars. Opting out of your TV contract wasn't
on your radar as a possibility. You had more clarity

(59:22):
that like what would have happened had they signed Kyle
Schwarber and then uh oh, would they have had to
avoid the contract? Would they've had to like go to
him and say, yes, sorry, we're gonna ask you to
kind of let us out of that contract, like there's
such inconsistency with that, which makes you and you can

(59:45):
get mad at me for saying this, if you want,
which makes you wonder legitimately how serious was the pursuit
of Kyle Schwarber If you are too uncertain now that
with two weeks to go before spring training, you can't
actively make your team better because you just don't know

(01:00:05):
what your TV revenue situation is gonna be. What's changed
from then when they brought Kyle Schwarber to town to
apparently try to get into play for him? What's changed
between then and now? Doesn't it make you question the
seriousness of their pursuit of Kyle Schwarber. That's not sour

(01:00:27):
grapes over them not getting them. How does it not
make you wonder about the seriousness of their pursuit of
Kyle Schwerber? I hope I've put this in clear, almost
black and white terms. You're telling people we gotta wait,

(01:00:49):
not sure, don't know, don't know what the TV situation
is gonna be, Gotta wait, Okay, but you know Spring
training is almost here and you could use a still
It's been almost four months since last season ended. Yep,
I known, gotta wait, don't know, don't know about the
TV deal, but but you know about the kind of

(01:01:12):
money you were gonna get to your TV deal when
you were kind of trying to get Kyle Schwarber. This
doesn't make any sense. If you could afford to go
after Kyle Schwarber, and I mean legitimately go after Kyle Schwarber,

(01:01:34):
two months later, you can't go after aeohaneus Warres. Do
you find out where your games are gonna err on TV?

Speaker 7 (01:01:39):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Somebody who is smarter than me, and that's most help
me make sense of this? At Moleggar on Twitter better
Off at five point three seven fifteen thirty. I can
only speak for myself, but you have your You're left

(01:02:03):
but to conclude, as unfair as I'm sure they will
say it is, You're left to conclude that the pursuit
was for show, was cosmetic, was branding almost instead of
a legitimate pursuit. And again, like, all I'm doing is

(01:02:23):
is taking what is being reported. All I'm doing is
taking what is out there. Yes, I'm sure there's financial
uncertainty because of this chunk of money that they typically
get from their TV partner. They don't know what that
chunk is going to look like. That makes sense that

(01:02:43):
meshes like that works, but it's totally inconsistent with the
idea that they really went after it due to it
fifty six bombs last year. Those those two things, those
two things do not connect five seven, four, nine, fifteen thirty.
We'll get you in. Uh. We got a college programs

(01:03:06):
suing its quarterback and now settling with its quarterback. We
got a coach who's going to find as players for
breaking rules. And I have more questions for our legal analyst,
Stewart W. Penrose, Manila Law Group. He'll answer my questions
and yours.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Next.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 7 (01:03:27):
Traffic from the UCE Health Traffic Center With a stroke
every second countsint So does your team home to rapid
life saving treatment and clinical trials. You see health as
the clear choice for stroke care. Learn more at u
sehealth dot com. Northbound two seventy five between Kilby Road
and I seventy four remains closed off due to an accident.

(01:03:48):
Police have also got the luff lane blocked off on
the southbound side after seventy four. In southbound seventy five
after Sunday road. It's an accident. I'm edie Zelek with
the traffic.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
This report HEESPA sure twenty four from five o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Moeger, thanks so much for joining us. On Tuesdays, we
talk sports and law with our guy Stewart W Penrose
Manilo Law Group to answer questions like about Dion Sanders,
the head coach of Colorado looking to impose a fine
system for his players, and the idea here, you know,

(01:04:25):
being that players are getting paid now, so if they're
late to practice, if they're late to a film session,
if they're late to a treatment, if they violate a
team rules, he could find them. College football players have
never been more professionalized. This is the sort of stuff
they do at the professional level, and so you know,
on some level, sure find the guys. It makes sense.

(01:04:46):
At the same time, is this really legal? And so
Stuart's here to answer those questions and more. It's always
good to have you a Stewart. What's going on?

Speaker 10 (01:04:55):
Good after now?

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
Moug doing doing well?

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
How about yourself? I'm doing all right? So Deon Sanders
legally find his players when they're technically not employees.

Speaker 10 (01:05:07):
It depends on the circumstance mode. It's not the NFL. Certainly,
there's no collective bargaining agreement that that governs the fines
and have things all, you know, set out in an
orderly and and and and legal way. You know, college
football operates on UH state laws, various contracts, and quite frankly,
a lot of patchwork. If this is if this is

(01:05:29):
something that is UH being paid with nil money, it
gets very murky because those are private contracts, separate from
the school and there and there certainly could be challenges
to that. But if these are set up possibly as donations,
or if these fines are set out in a team
code of conduct or or some sort of authorized way

(01:05:50):
where the player agrees to it in exchange for you know,
partly in exchange for their scholarship and to be on
the team, well then then there could be an argument
that it's enforceable. But it just depends on how it's
set out. It can't be done in an arbitrary way.
It can't be done in a retroactive way. So it's
easy to see what Dion's trying to do here, Malo,

(01:06:11):
and he's trying to still some discipline and accountability, and
those are all good things. But yes, there certainly could
be legal challenges depending upon how it's set up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
I was wondering this, So in a professional sports league,
the league itself finds players for all sorts of things.
It might be something as benign as a uniform violation,
might be for something as serious as, you know, putting
another player's health and safety in jeopardy, a late hit
and a legal hit, taunting, things done during games, getting

(01:06:43):
in a fight. Players are fined every single week in
the NFL, I was wondering, could like a league like
the Big ten or the SEC ultimately go You know
what if Dion Sanders, if a head coach of a
Big twelve program, is going to find one of his
players for missing treatment, we could perhaps do the same
if a player commits a certain infraction during a game.

Speaker 10 (01:07:05):
I think that's stretching out an already murky situation even further.

Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:07:10):
I think that's very unlikely to be the case. There's
no collective bargaining agreement, there's no to pay it. The
players aren't employees. If you start doing this in large scales,
you could get into uh, you know, wage in our violations,
employment violations, contract violations. It's just not set up that
way in college athletics for it to hold that sort

(01:07:31):
of weight at this moment. But let's look at the
practicality on the other side too, though, If you pay
for Keon Sanders, who's gonna sue Deon Sanders? Uh, you
know for being fined by this? You know, in practicality
looking at the other present here, yeah, you know you
can risk your play in time, you might risk your scholarship,
your reputation, the transfer portal. So you know, I certainly

(01:07:53):
see what Dion's doing here. Is it on shaky legal grounds?
Very likely apps, depending upon how it's set up, But practicality,
what player is going to sue me on standard stop
for this?

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I guess I would also wonder, like, there are levels
of college football where the players aren't as well compensated
and somewhere they're not compensated at all, And so I'm
curious as to and maybe this is more of a
question about practicality than it is legality, but I'm wondering
what the response would be if a coach decided we're
going to have a fine system as well, and maybe

(01:08:27):
the fine amounts won't be quite as steep, but you
are dealing with athletes who maybe aren't as well compensated
as they are in Colorado.

Speaker 10 (01:08:35):
Sure, then you certainly get into the deep end of
the waters with that. And you know, quite frankly, who's
compensating these players. It's predominantly these nil collectives, and that's
third party money. And if you if you try to
find them for their third party money, that's when you're
going to run into some violations here, and you know,
potentially some challenges.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
I feel like as a college sports fan, I have
to become more and more familiar with the word injunction.
So I want to ask you about Dukes soon to
be former quarterback who is Darien Mensa helped lead the
Blue Devils to an acc title. He and his now
former school have agreed to a settlement of a dispute
that will allow him to transfer to another school the

(01:09:15):
expectation that he is going to go play for the
Miami Hurricane. So Duke sued their former player, a guy
who a month and a half ago was helping lead
them to a conference championship. They sued him in an
attempt to prevent him from transferring he put his name
in the portal, wasn't permitted to enroll in another school
until a judge ruled on this, and so there was
an injunction hearing scheduled for Thursday. Apparently that's not going

(01:09:38):
to happen because the two parties have agreed to a settlement.
This is maybe a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway.
What is an injunction.

Speaker 10 (01:09:49):
Relief that the court gives to prevent something or allow
something to go forward. You know, here the kid is
trying to you know, go and transfer and play for Miami,
and you know that's what the court is a you know, is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Allowing them to do.

Speaker 10 (01:10:01):
Well, I take that back, Duke allowed them to settle,
or Duke settled with them, But you're asking for some
sort of non monetary relief.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
What was what was Duke's case here before the settlement.

Speaker 10 (01:10:13):
Well, they're trying to hold them too, the U to
the bounds of this nil contract. I mean, both this
and the don of the DN story are basically showing
the same thing. They're trying to get schools and coaches
to get the power back from kids when the you know,
when the leverage is shifted to the athletes given NI
L in the transfer portal. You know, the law hasn't

(01:10:33):
caught up yet, so everybody's experimenting and you know, occasionally overreaching,
and you know it sounds like that, you know, that's
what Duke was trying to do here, get him too
A bide by his uh by his NIL contract, which
which again is not with Duke, it's with a you know,
it's with an NIL collective. They can't stop them from transferring,
first and foremost, that brings up too many anti trust issues.

(01:10:55):
But what they're trying to do is they're trying to
make it financially unfeasible for that player to go ahead transfer.
Clearly they were able to figure something out here, which
is good because no school uh you know, really wants
to be that school that that that's going out there
and you know, enforcing this to the end degree and
you know, perhaps becoming less attractive to recruits. And we

(01:11:15):
saw the same thing on the other end with that
quarterback from Washington, and you know, both of those situations
were settled. Of course, that kid ended up staying at
Washington and this kid, you know, is off seeming to
u to Miami here, but.

Speaker 6 (01:11:27):
They can't prevent you from treachering.

Speaker 10 (01:11:29):
But you've got a got an an our contract that
could certainly send you a bill on the way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Out our guy. Attorney Steward W. Penrose, Manila Law Group,
Manila Lawgroup dot Com. One more case involving an injunction here,
and this is involves Alabama basketball players Charles Bettiaco. Now,
this this is a guy who I think is is
maybe not the most controversial among these eligibility cases we

(01:11:52):
talk about, but he's one of them. Played in his
first college game on Saturday for Alabama against Tennessee. He's
a young man who played at the University of Alabama
in twenty twenty one twenty two in twenty twenty two
twenty three, then declared for the draft, went undrafted, never
played in an NBA game, but he has bounced around
the G League, including like a week and a half

(01:12:15):
ago playing for the Motor City Cruise. So every college
basketball coaches up in arms about this, and I think
understandably so. The nc DOUBLEA has filed a motion asking
for the judge to recuse himself from this case because
he's an Alabama booster. So he's gotten the preliminary injunction
to play. The NC DOUBLEA is still fighting it, hoping

(01:12:37):
that they can make him ineligible. I guess, walk me
through all the different layers here.

Speaker 10 (01:12:44):
Sure, well, we first and foremost, we are so deep
into the leads of the wild wild wild Western College Athletics.
And this is case in point. It's really a crazy
fact pattern. You know, we know the NC double A
is you know, did not want you know, gage players
or players that were in the draft so to come
back in and you know, the lost some original challenges there.

(01:13:06):
The difference with this kid, my understanding is that he
actually happened two way NBA G League contracts even though
he didn't play an NBA game, and the NC double
A is trying to toak abash on that and say, hey,
those players aren't eligible. So this is certainly going to
be a you know, a landmark ruling, not just for
his kid. I mean, right now he's got at least
temporary and junct relief the play and you know, let's

(01:13:27):
be honest, seasons are short. The season is going to
be up for Alabama and you know to two and
a half months. This case may last me up that
but depending upon how this judge determine whether a lot
of these kids, you know, with these two way contracts,
can go back and play. And then if they if
they allow it to happen, where do you draw that line?
At that point? It could just really open floodgates. And
you know, further week in the n C Double A,

(01:13:49):
which has already been uh criply weakened even more.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Yeah, now we talked about that a few weeks ago.
While the inc DOUBLEA keeps losing in court. Let me
ask you this really quick. How often in any case
when there's a request from one side or the other
for the judge to recuse his or horse self because
of of any conflict of interest, is that request granted?

Speaker 10 (01:14:11):
Depends on the circumstance. I mean, if you're a judge,
obviously you don't want any impropriety, but it's also about
the appearance of impropriety. I can't say you know enough
on the fact here so as to whether there is
that or not. I understand the judges an Alabama booster,
I would be sure to keep them. Most of the
judges now in Alabama probably are some form of Alabama

(01:14:34):
or Auburn boosters, So you probably have some slim pickings there.
If you're the if you're the n cuble A. But
I certainly can understand the point and ultimately up to
the judge whether he recuses himself. And some judges try
to err against recusal, uh because they don't want that uh,
that feeling or that uh suggestion of impropriety even being

(01:14:55):
out there for them. They want to be fair and
impartial and give that that aura out there. But I
certainly understand the NCAA position here when you've got to
sam a booster overseeing it at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Yeah, No, that that makes sense. That to me, that's
that's a courtroom one oh one. For lack of a
better way of putting into Attorney Stewart W. Penrose Manila
Law Group joins us every single Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
Awesome to have you as always. We'll talk next week.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
You can learn more about Stuart's Manila Law Group practice
at Manilolawgroup dot com. All right, thirteen away from five o'clock.
I know I'm being told I'm being mean to the Reds.
Like it's remarkable to me how for some the simple
pursuit of a star player is enough.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
Like I.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
It's also remarkable to me for how many folks eighty
three wins is like a good good record, And I
just don't know. Five three, fifteen thirty and uh, we'll
take phone calls in the five o'clock hour. I hope
there's not a snapping sound during these subsequent phone calls
on this show. It's twelve away from six o'clock. This

(01:16:08):
is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 7 (01:16:15):
Traffic from the UCE Health Traffic Center. With a stroke,
every second counts, and so does your team home to
rapid life saving treatment and clinical trials. You see health
as the clear choice for stroke care. Learn more at
u sehealth dot com. Northbound two seventy five is closed
off from a series of accidents between Kilby Road and
I seventy four. Gonna expect that to be shut down

(01:16:39):
until further notice. A new accident in northbound seventy one
seventy five. It's after Kyle's lane blocking the right lane.
I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yeah, snow in the weather and the cold and all that.
Now it's we're gonna get as high as fourteen on Friday.
Doesn't bother me. Bone chilling cold does. And the older
I get the less tolerance I have for it. Need

(01:17:10):
one of them deals where I have like a winter
home and I could just like broadcast from my winter
home looking out at the ocean or something like that.
I got to figure out a way to make that happen.
By the way, we're getting lots of suggestions on social media.
I don't know that the Tony and Mo Football Show
will need a new home. I certainly hope that the

(01:17:31):
parent company of Twin Peaks figures out a way to
get through their bankruptcy, and I hope we can continue
to do the show at Twin Peaks for years to
come on Mondays during the football season because we love
it there.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
Staff is unbelievable. It's a great place.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
I wake up every Monday morning excited about being a
Twin Peaks.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
We love Twin Peaks. But in the events that Twin
Peaks and their financial issues preclude them from having the
Tony and Mo Football Show, this could be an opportunity
for your favorite establishments.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
So when you go have dinner there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
The next time, or swing by for happy hour drinks
after work one day, post up with your buddies this weekend,
make sure you pull the manager or owner aside and say, hey,
this could be your shot. You've been waiting for this
to completely legitimize this place. The Tony and Mo Football
Show starting up. When is the first the first Monday,

(01:18:33):
the first Bengals game is I'm looking at the It's
kind of late this year because Labor Day is kind
of late. It's like the fourteenth, I think of September.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
I don't know. It's not like I can't pull up
a calendar.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Yes, fourteenth, the fourteenth of September will be the first
Tony and Mo Football show of the season, unless the
Bengals play on Monday Night, which is always a possibility,
but chances are the first Tony and Mo Football Show
we'll be on the fourteenth of September. So you have
lots of time, but you're gonna wanna You're gonna wanna
jump into the derby. Now reach out to us after

(01:19:10):
we figure out what the deal at Twin Peaks is.
I want to do the Tony Moe Football Show from
the studio. That's my This is at the end of
the day, it's about me. Tony and Mo Football Show
has been on the air for eleven years now. The
last seven we have been out at an establishment. The
show is better when it's out. I like being out,
especially during football season. So we did the show for

(01:19:33):
a year. It's Sam Adams and OTR. That was a
wonderful place in the last six years at Twin Peaks.
I'm just saying, you know, for years you're not Twin Peaks.
Is nice, MO, but I wish you would do it here. Okay, Well,
your your favorite establishment might have a shot. We'll grab

(01:19:56):
phone calls coming up in the next hour of the show.
Five one three, fifteen thirty is our phone number. By
the way, tomorrow in the five o'clock hour, we have
a conversation with both Chase Brown and t Higgins that
we'll have for you at five forty tomorrow. So Tea
and UH and Chase will join us tomorrow afternoon, and

(01:20:18):
we'll also go to mobile and I'm not sure we're
gonna get a report from the Senior Bowl, but we'll
talk about the Bengals and the Senior Bowland Board's coming
up on five o'clock on ESPN.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Fifteen thirty was waiting on the Reflint.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Win one thousand dollars just entered this nationwide keyword on
our website.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Dollar that's dollar enter it now.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
Look on fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Oh oh, it's Tuesdays.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
What taco Tuesdays?

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Not having tacos today, not having tacos tonight. But that's okay,
doesn't mean it can still met taco Tuesday for you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
I'm a leger.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
Thanks for listening. They stay warmed to you. Who cares
what you're eating? Stay warm? Good God, I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Pull my garbage can in this morning and then that
like twelve second walk you wanted to wanted to do things.
I will not speaking to existence, to myself, it is.
I mean, you don't need me to tell you it is.
It is brutally cold, and it's gonna be this way
for like ever. I don't know. Maybe it's gonna be
like thirty three towards the end of next week. We

(01:21:33):
will see. By the way, Miguel Andrew harr is also
still out there. I can't imagine Miguel ANDHRR costs a
ton of money. I legitimately can't imagine that. You have
to figure out what your TV revenue is gonna be
if if you want to bring back Miguel Andrew harr
who granted only helps you against lefties. But still, I

(01:21:56):
think so many have been lulled into this believe that
it's it's it's just it's impossible to make your team
any better because so many economic forces in the sport
work against your team.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
And I just I don't. I don't believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
And I I just I struggle with the consistency of
the messaging.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
I struggle with the consistency of the messaging. We're two
months ago, it's we are actively going after Kyle Schwerber.
We are actively going after a guy who addresses easily
our biggest issue. We're we're gonna do it. We're gonna
make a play here. Maybe maybe it's a long shot,
but we're gonna make a play. Like what if he

(01:22:38):
would have said yes, don't you want What if he
would have said yes. If they don't know about whether
or not they could go after a Uhanio Suarez because
of the uncertainty surrounding their TV contract, If they don't
know whether or not they can make a play for
Miguel and do hard. If they don't know if they

(01:22:59):
could take a league average offense and make it a
little bit better with an established bat from the outside.
If they don't know what would have happened had Kyle
Schwarber said you know what, Hell yeah, let's do it.
I'll come home, I'll take a little bit of a
hometown discount. What then would have happened financially? What then

(01:23:19):
would have happened? Also, Nick Crawl will tell you he
did last week at Redsfest. We tried to make Ellie
Dela Cruz the highest paid player in franchise history. Now, remember,
highest paid player in franchise history is not highest paid
player in baseball history, but still pretty substantial, right, a

(01:23:41):
lot of money. So you're so comfortable with the economics,
you're so comfortable with revenue it, so comfortable with whatever
may happen with your TV situation that you'll make a
play to have Ellie Dela Cruz. And by the way,
the TV situation has been uncertain for a while now.

(01:24:01):
Or remember about fourteen months ago they opted out of
their TV deal and it was like, Okay, they're gonna
come up with their own thing, like that was a
thing that happened. They opted out of their TV deal
for the twenty twenty five season. And I know this
A because I remember this being reported. B. I know
folks on the television production side of this who were like,

(01:24:23):
don't know what this means for us. They opted out
of their TV deal and then Fandel Sports Network was
able to come up with something and the games were
on Fandel Sports Network and there was a streaming component
to it. I don't know how much the money the
Red's made off of it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
They had to have known last year that TV deal
uncertainty was going to be a thing going into the
twenty twenty sixth season. By the way, so was labor uncertainty,
and yet they were comfortable offering Eli de la Cruz Like,
there's just such inconsistency here, and when messaging is inconsistent,
you're not sure what to believe, You're not sure what

(01:24:59):
to trust. So was going after Kyle Schwarber to the
degree they did a legitimate attempt, legitimate attempt to give
their lack of pop a boost or was it window dressing.
I will have folks with that franchise who get mad

(01:25:20):
at me for saying this, But how do you not
walk away wondering the same thing when now you're hearing,
By the way, there is no longer weeks on end
available to make the team better before spring training. The
first Cactus League game is less than a month away,
the first workout is less than two weeks away.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
Like it's here, it's about to start.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
Yes, there are there are players available so far as
an ad to R or two of them. So is
Austin Hayes. By the way, how much of a letdown
is it going to be? Nothing against Austin Hayes or
Miguel anduhrr? How much of a letdown is it going
to be if an off season that at one point
included what felt like legitimate conjecture about going after Kyle

(01:26:04):
Schwarber is gonna end with bringing back Miguel Andrew Harr
who doesn't help you at all defensively and is useless
from one side of the plate at Austin Hayes. It's
the ultimate in running it back, By the way, maybe
running it back will work. Maybe running it back will
result in the same team having better results in twenty

(01:26:28):
twenty six. Maybe running it back or result in similar results,
and those results are good enough for this team to
get to the postseason, and they win once they get
to the postseason. But I remember when last year ended.
I remember those days after they got swept by the Dodgers.
I don't recall anybody saying, you know what the best
strategy here is to run it back. I think what

(01:26:49):
everybody agreed was, first of all, got to make the
bullpen better. Okay, cool, done, check that box. Bullpen I
think is better. Number two, need a bat. Not only
is it January twenty seventh and they haven't added that bat.
Apologies to JJ Bleday, but now you're hearing from very
credible people who cover the sport. Well, they've gotta wait

(01:27:13):
because they don't know about their TV situation. Hearing that
they have to wait, by the way, does not mesh
with urgency. That's a word that's used often. Isn't it urgency?
Urgency to win? I wouldn't be great if the message
was really urgency like one eight three last year, got

(01:27:35):
good starting pitching, got some guys we want to build around.
Feel like our window is now. Maybe the Brewers have
taken a step back. Let's let's beat the pirates to
the punch. Let's be urgent here. Instead, it's gotta wait,
like a franchise that has existed for thirty years, telling
us to wait is now saying we gotta gotta wait

(01:27:58):
even longer. Gotta I don't know about that, TV. Sorry,
It's remarkable. The inconsistency is remarkable, and I think the
unfortunate thing is like, yeah, you get branded something if
you pointed out, you get branded a pessimist or somebody
who doesn't understand the nuts and bolts of baseball's economics.

(01:28:19):
Here's what I understand. The Reds won eighty three games
last year, which was fine, It wasn't great. They finished
fourteen games out of first place. It felt like when
they played in the postseason against the Dodgers they had
almost no chance from the jump. They needed help on
the last day of the season to barely sneak in
as the six seed. At no point last season where

(01:28:41):
they considered bona fide championship contenders, At no point was
winning the National League Central last season anywhere on the table.
And yet this offseason being told to wait, being told
to wait, when earlier in the offseason it was we're
gonna go after a dude who had fifty six bombs
last year. When they didn't get Kyle Schwarber, they took

(01:29:05):
some criticism. They took it from folks who sit where
I sit right now, meaning me and my colleagues, wondering
and in some cases alleging about the seriousness of the
pursuit of Kyle Schwarber. How serious was it? Does an

(01:29:25):
entity that's worth slightly less than two billion dollars really
allow somebody to get away for five million dollars a year,
which those five million dollars a year in three or
four years, it's probably not going to be five million
dollars is probably going to be a heck of a
lot less. So if you're willing to do that, how
serious was your pursuit When you find out months later, well,

(01:29:47):
they can't do anything because they don't know about their
TV deal.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
I fling it back to November.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
I fling it back to those thirty six to forty
eight hours when it felt like the pursuit of Kyle
Schwarber was real.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
And I don't know how you now conclude that it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
And if the pursuit of Kyle Schwerber wasn't real, then
the pursuit of a championship in twenty twenty six also
doesn't seem real. That, of course, doesn't mean they can't
win one. And what is so frustrating about the Reds
is they have a lot of good pieces in place,
and you can't help but fear that this season and

(01:30:26):
maybe the twenty twenty seven season, if it actually happens
that those seasons are going to be spent with us wondering,
how much better could this team have been had they
been a little bit more proactive in making it better
using outside acquisitions. It would be one thing if the
Reds lost ninety six games last season.

Speaker 3 (01:30:47):
They did not.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
It would be one thing if the Reds weren't even
close to the postseason last year. That obviously wasn't the case.
They're not that far away. They have enviable goods starting pitching.
They have other players the teams I think would like
to have, like Ellie de la Cruz. They have prospects
other teams would like to have, like top one hundred

(01:31:09):
guy according to the Athletic and ESPN Sal Stewart. They
have a really, really nice collection of starting pitchers. But
oh man, it doesn't feel at all like they're seriously
pursuing making this team better. I'm sorry. All I could

(01:31:30):
go is all I could go is like what I've
seen and what I read and hear from folks who
are deeply in the know. Yeah, they went after Kyle Schwarber. Yeah,
they offered him close to twenty five million dollars a year.
Some have reported that they were willing to go where
the Phillies.

Speaker 3 (01:31:48):
Went to keep them. How do you do that and
then two.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
Months later send the message that you've got to wait
to see what your TV deal is going to be
before you go make the team better elsewhere. Those two
things don't mesh. Those two things don't mesh. And because
of the franchise's well earned brand, which is not willing
to go to the end of the earth to be

(01:32:13):
the best in the world at what they do, you
you can't help but conclude that the the hesitancy to
jump into the Uhaneo Suarez pool tells you that the
pursuit of Schwarber was not that serious. Quarter after five
on ESPN fifteen thirty five one, three, seven, four nine,

(01:32:34):
fifteen thirty is our phone number at Moeger on Twitter.
Thanks to Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart,
vibrant communities for all. Good to Delta Dental, oh dot com.
It is sixteen minutes after five o'clock. I'll tell you

(01:32:54):
what I would pursue if I was the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:32:56):
Next Cincinnati's P fifteen thirty traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:33:03):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. With a stroke, every
second counts, and so does your team home to rapid
life saving treatment and clinical trials. You see, help is
the clear choice for stroke care. Learn more at ucehealth
dot com. Northbound two seventy five remains closed off this
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the roadway between Kilby Road and I seventy four southbound

(01:33:26):
seventy one. It's an accident blocking the right lane before
Martin Luther King drive on that ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
This report is sponsored by Mike Somebody helped me with
the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
Adam Schefter. Just a few minutes ago of.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
ESPN reports that Bill Belichick is not going to be
a first ballot Hall of Famer. According to Don Van
Natta and Seth Wickersham, Belijack, who won eight Super Bowls
during his coaching career, two was a defensive coordinator six
as a head coach, fell short of the forty of
fifty votes needed for induction. Into the Pro Football Hall

(01:34:05):
of Fame in his first year of eligibility. I am
I'm trying to. I'm trying to think off the top
of my head. I know Tony Dungee was not a
first ballot Hall of Famer, and I'm doing this sort

(01:34:25):
of here on the fly. I'm trying to. I know
Bill Kawer was not a first ballot Hall of Famer.
I know Bill Parcells was not a first ballot Hall
of Famer. And I don't have this in front of me,
but I was reading when Mike Tomlin stepped down, because
I think a lot of folks have talked about Mike
Tomlin's Hall of Fame candidacy, and I guess there are
some things in place that have made it more difficult

(01:34:46):
for coaches to get in. And you know, you could
look at a guy like Tony Dungee and assume Hall
of Famer. It took him a while. It took Bill Parcells,
I think, a long time to get to Canton. It
took Bill Kower a long time to get to Canton. MARVELI,
I don't know if Marv Levy went into the Pro
Football Hall of Fame on his first He made it
in his third year of eligibility, and so it feels

(01:35:08):
like and I could keep doing this, I don't want
to do it on the air because it's bad radio.
I don't know who the last coach to make the
Pro Football Hall of Fame on the first ballot is,
But if it's not Bill Belichick, who's it going to be.
And I'm sure there were voters who decided I'm not

(01:35:29):
going to vote for him on the first ballot because
of Spygate, which was a legitimate scandal. Now the deflate
Gate thing was a nothing burger. You talk about the
greatest nontroversy of all time, that might be it. And
maybe there was a writer who held it against him
his prickly personality during press conferences. And by the way,

(01:35:50):
there have been a ton of players who took way
too long, Like Marvin Harrison didn't get in on the
first try, Tara Lowans didn't get in on the first try,
Chris Carter didn't get in the first try. Just dudes
that you look at their numbers and you're like, how
the hell's that guy not an immediate first ballot Hall
of Famer. Baseball Hall of Fame voting can be sort
of silly. I don't think it's as dumb as the
Pro Football Hall of Fame. You had a coach who

(01:36:12):
won six rings, and that guy can't get it on
the first ballot.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
What are we doing, Mike? You've waited patiently. Go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:36:24):
You know you have a subtle way of weighing down
the hammer. Pretty cool?

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
How did I lay the hammer down on?

Speaker 10 (01:36:32):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:36:32):
As a listener, you better be paying attention because when
me Eger says.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
You're on, you better be ready damn straight, because.

Speaker 6 (01:36:39):
We know, we know many times I haven't been and
you've been kind enough to cut me some sweat. Okay,
two things. That's it. It seems to me now there's
just a I just wish you were I had grown
up when I grew up, because you'd have been much
happier about the inner in Tonati Sports fam. You really

(01:37:03):
would have, you really well, you would have. You know
that you're a historian.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
You know that I've seen the Reds win the World Series.
I've seen U Se play in a Final four. I've
seen the Bengals play in two Super Bowls. I was
alive for the first, but I don't remember it like
I've had some high points. I'm happy to be a
part of the generation that I'm a part of.

Speaker 6 (01:37:25):
Well, what are you sixty? I thought you were forty something?

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Forty something?

Speaker 6 (01:37:28):
Yes, yeah, okay, all right. I just get the feeling
that the ownership or the general managership this Reds team,
I mean, are they just trying to deceive people? I mean,
what if you know that this thing ain't going nowhere fast?

(01:37:49):
If something doesn't change, it's just not going to mo
I don't care what you say or what you think.
It's not going to go anywhere where you want it
to go unless something changes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Dramatic with regards to how the Reds do business or
baseball's economics.

Speaker 6 (01:38:05):
With regards to the personnel on the team. Yeah, and
being realistic about the monetary commitment.

Speaker 12 (01:38:15):
That it takes, you know that that kind of I
just I just don't feel it from this team. I
don't feel that commitments. And I know, you know a
lot of people like to just go down to the park,
and there's nothing wrong with that, just to watch baseball,
and if you win, you win, you lose, you lose.
It's just part of the experience, which is fun. But

(01:38:37):
we all want more than that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
Correct, Yeah, I desire to see the Cincinnati Reds be
consistent playoff team. Did to have a team have an
organization that it is is consistently relevant, consistently relevant every

(01:38:59):
single year. Now, some years you might be relevant and
miss the postseason. Other years you may have a team
that you look at as the lead dog in the
sport and they're they're bona fide championship contenders, and for
whatever reason, they just don't win. The whole thing. I
can live with that. What you can't live with what

(01:39:20):
is frustrating is they've dragged us through a lot of losing.
I mean they've dragged They went from nineteen ninety five
through twenty ten without appearing in a postseason game. They
had a lost decade in the two thousands, that is
akin to the Bengals lost decade of the nineteen nineties,
where they didn't have a winning season. Between two thousand

(01:39:44):
and twenty ten, they finally have this like influx of
really good players that they develop and come through their system,
and in ten, twelve, and thirteen, good teams, good teams,
fun teams, and all right things didn't fall their in
the postseason. They then subsequently dragged us through basically a
decade of nothing where every single year two thousand and fifteen, sixteen,

(01:40:08):
seventeen eighteen, you knew they were gonna lose ninety games.
Twenty nineteen, you didn't think they were going to win
more than seventy five.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
Twenty twenty two, you knew they were gonna be bad.

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
They lose one hundred games, and you go, Okay, there's
got to be a payoff to this. I think the
payoff could come, and maybe it does. It doesn't feel
like they're relentless in the pursuit of that payoff. And
that is if you care about this franchise as much
as so many of us do, deeply, deeply frustrating.

Speaker 6 (01:40:36):
Yeah, and I'll want to rehask this one time, and
then I got one question about the Bengals defensive line
after this comment. I've said this to you before one time.
I think I was in a hotel room in West
Virginia in two thousand and I don't know thirteen. When
were you on the national broadcast with ESPN.

Speaker 3 (01:40:58):
Twenty thirteen through twenty twenty.

Speaker 6 (01:41:03):
Yeah, See, people, do you realize that mo Egar was
on the same national thing that like Dan Patrick was on.
You guys got to realize you got a gym right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
Here, and mister, they couldn't care less than nor should they?

Speaker 6 (01:41:16):
Yeah, no, they should because that's important. Okay, Bengals, is
it really well? I know it is, but I don't
know how critical it is when it comes to the
interior defensive line. I'm not so sure about the addresses,
but the interior defensive line. It seems like these teams

(01:41:38):
that really win have rotational a rotational thing. Maybe they
got four interior alignment or at least three to keep
everybody fresh. And how relevant do you think that is?

Speaker 10 (01:41:52):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
Very yeah, very they can take advantage of. I mean,
roster death is important everywhere. But yeah, I mean I
what I when I think of the Bengals when they've
been good, you know, it's it's obviously been DJ Reader
and it's been Geno Atkins well before him, but Larry
Ogunjobi and BJ Hill and not on the same team

(01:42:13):
going back aways Domata Peko and you know, there being
some depth and I think what's happened is unfortunately, you know,
they address defensive tackle early in the twenty twenty five draft,
I'm sorry, in the twenty twenty four draft with Chris
Jenkins and McKinley Jackson. Neither guy is panned out. So
what I think what you're hoping for and you can't

(01:42:34):
count on this, which is why they have to go
get players. But by now, those guys were expected to
be starters. Those guys were expected to be guys that
you could ask to do a lot more. They haven't
even been able to stick as rotational players, and so
in the short term, they haven't had a lot of depth.
And in the long term, there's nobody to take on
a bigger role among players who have been here for
a couple of years gaining experience.

Speaker 6 (01:42:56):
Right. So that's just a question I wanted to ask
because it seems like most of these really successful teams
have that depth. Okay, oh, my sisters, and my sister's
here at knocking on my door. Thanks, mo, I gotta go.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
Tell your sister.

Speaker 10 (01:43:13):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
It's twenty eight away from six o'clock. Joe Gibbs did
not get in on the first ballot.

Speaker 3 (01:43:20):
I gotta look and see.

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
If Bill Walsh got in on the first Maybe this
is just a thing I don't know, and I'm no
Patriots fan by any stretch. I'm know Bill Belichick fan,
One of the very few terms I've muted on Twitter
is Bill Belichick and girlfriend because I can't think of
a story that is dumber or matters less than anything
involving Bill Belichick and his girlfriend. But if you care

(01:43:43):
it all about the Hall of Fame, and most sports
fans do, how do you keep out a dude that's
won the championship six times? And what other sport would
that happen? Would a six time World Series manager be
excluded from Cooperstown?

Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
Let me help you with that. The answer is no.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
There are managers who have won one who are in
Cooperstown and deserved to be, like Bobby Cox, like Jim Leland.
There's NBA coaches who have not won a title who
are in the Hall of Fame, Rudy Tom Johanovich, Jerry Sloan,
among others. There's obviously college basketball coaches who haven't won
the whole thing who are in Springfield. Bob Huggins Pro

(01:44:25):
Football Hall of Fame. Dude's got six rings. Nah, it
is It is rare. It is rare that any sort
of Hall of Fame vote as befuddles me this one,
And again, I couldn't care. I couldn't care less about
Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick's boring for the most part. But
how do you tell the story of the National Football

(01:44:46):
League without without spending extensive amounts of time on Bill Belichick?
That guy not good enough to get to Canton on
the first ballot? Why because of Spygate? Seriously, he was
a Hall of Famer before Spygate.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
Dumb. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:45:10):
From the UCE Health Traffic Center with a stroke every
second counts and so does your team home to rapid
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bit of slow traffic still from Montgomery Dana. Northbound two

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seventy five, however, remains shut down due to an accident
between Kilby Road and I seventy four. That he's alic
with traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
The Sports Sublines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet. Home
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Speaker 3 (01:45:51):
Their family.

Speaker 2 (01:45:51):
The Yours for Life kelseyshow dot Com. College basketball tonight
on ESPN fifteen thirty to Kentucky Wildcats and one five straight.
They're on the road tonight against Vanderbilt. Good Vanderbilt team tough,
plays to play Commodore has recently broke a three game.

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
Losing skid of their own.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
Nine PM tip, seven to thirty pre game on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Miami looks to make in twenty one and
zho After a week off, The RedHawks are hosting UMAs
tonight at nine. The minute Men are thirteen and eight,
four and five in MAC play. By the way, Travis
Steel on our show yesterday. If you missed it, it's
on the iHeartRadio app. Dayton's lost two straight. The Flyers
take on Rhode Island tonight at seven pm. Indiana recently

(01:46:32):
broke a four game losing streak with a win on
Friday over Rutgers. The Hoosiers take on Purdue tonight. Does
anybody care about Indiana basketball anymore? Since the football teams,
you know, National champions.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
Bills have hired Joe Brady as their head coach.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
He was their offensive coordinator And I'm sorry, this is
just befuddling to me. According to Adam Schefter, Bill Belichick
is not a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Speaker 3 (01:46:57):
I've done some very preliminary research.

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
Here, and I've got to look up Vince Lombardi, although
I would imagine he was. Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Don Shula,
Tom Landry, and George Hallis were all first ballot Hall
of Famers. George Hallis went in in the Hall of
Fame's first ever class in nineteen sixty three. Paul Brown
was already in the Hall of Fame when he founded

(01:47:21):
the Cincinnati Bengals. In both men's cases obviously deservedly so.
Same for Chuck Noll, same for Don Shula, same for
Tom Landry, and I ran out of time during the break.
I am going to assume that Vince Lombardi was also
a first ballot Pro Football Hall of Famer.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Now balloting has changed.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
I get that other coaches who have gotten in have
not gone in on the first ballot, like Joe Gibbs
had to wait a couple of years, Tony Dungee, Bill Cower,
Bill Parcells, uh, Bill Bellett. I mean, it's like Tom
Brady not going in on the first ballot, And maybe
it's not Apples to apples, But legitimately, like as a

(01:48:01):
as a football fan, you want to take your the
sports Hall of Fame seriously, and there's gonna be exclusions.
Every Hall of Fame has exclusions. I believe wholeheartedly that
Ken Anderson deserves to be in. If Ken Anderson got in,
then there's there's somebody else who's gonna raise their hand
and say I should be in. Like there's always gonna
be just calls like that where somebody there's always gonna

(01:48:24):
be like the best players not in the Hall of Fame.
Baseball has them, Basketball has them, although I feel like
Springfield lets pretty much anybody whoever averaged twenty points a
game in. But like an eight time coach, eight times
Super Bowl winning coach doesn't get to Canton on the
first ballot. It that that strains the credibility of your

(01:48:47):
Hall of Fame. An exclusion a player with a great
resume that the voters look at and go not like
the best of the best of the best e And
you hate it if you are attached to those players.
And I hated for Ken Anderson because as a human being,
he deserves to be in. But he's got a Hall
of Fame resume if you look at it objectively, which

(01:49:08):
is what you're supposed to do. I have no idea,
legitimately no idea. We talk about this in baseball all
the time. There's only been one unanimous first ballot Hall
of Famer, Mariano Rivera, which means every other Hall of Famer,
like there were people who looked at Ricky Henderson and
were like, yeah, nah, or people who looked at Greg

(01:49:30):
Maddox and were like somebody looked at twenty one people
didn't vote for Willy Mays the year he got in
the first time. On the first ballot, twenty one people
looked at Willy Mays and were like nah. Ten people
eighty percent looked at Bill Belichick on this ballot, and
we're like, I don't know, man, he could have done
a little bit more.

Speaker 6 (01:49:55):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
The Pro Football Hall of Fame officially zero ability, and
there have been absolute behemous as players who have taken
too long to get in. If you look at the
numbers put up by Tarall Owens and Chris Carter, look
at them and then ask yourself, why was neither guy
in on the first ballot? Ultimately both guys got in.

(01:50:16):
Chris Carter had to wait forever. Seriously, this one though,
this Hall of Fame has zero credibility. Cooper'stown doesn't have much,
Canton has none. Unbelievable, We have folks waiting patiently five, one, three, seven, four, nine,

(01:50:36):
fifteen thirty, Jim and Milford, go ahead, You're on ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 11 (01:50:42):
So my initial reaction when you said that is, if
Belichick doesn't get in and burn the place down, that's
that's ridiculous, absurd, it's absurd, not only with the credentials
and wards that he got and the trophies and everything.
Do you know even to this day, even at the

(01:51:05):
Super Bowl, he's gotten an effect. You know what that
is is when you win the coin toss and you
defer to the second half, that was Belichick's idea. He changed.
He changed the fact of let's kick a field goal

(01:51:26):
with two minutes under two minutes left in the first half,
and let's get the ball back right at the beginning
of the second half. That was Belichick. And that's something
he has changed right down the line. I mean, that's
that's him. He's got his signature all over that. Yeah,
the fact that he's won all these trophies good lord.

(01:51:49):
I mean that's it. That's you know, like you said,
Willie Mays and Babe Ruth. It's like saying, you know,
well do So here's my question. I don't want to
get you upset. Let's calm down, because we got nice
snow on the ground and everything, you know, everything looks Yeah,
so let's do you think it's these Hall of Fames

(01:52:13):
are more of a popularity contest rather than accolades for
what you've done.

Speaker 2 (01:52:20):
I think for the most part, there a reflection of
how the voters feel about your accolades.

Speaker 3 (01:52:24):
Yeah, I think for the most part.

Speaker 11 (01:52:26):
And again I said that my popularity contests of like,
you know, like if the guy's you know, like Belichick's
kind of a jerk, right, here's a jerk to the media.
He was, you know, kept everything close to the vest,
was not very popular. Do you think he's seeing the

(01:52:47):
results of not being well liked anecdotally?

Speaker 3 (01:52:50):
I'm sure that's the case. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
I you know, I know more about the bylaws of
Baseball Hall of Fame voting. Where there's supposed to be
a character clause, there shouldn't be, right, because I think
baseball writers are qualified to speak of someone's baseball credentials,
but they employ the character clause, for example, to keep
out somebody like Kurt Schilling. There's a lot of things

(01:53:15):
like Pete's not even been on the ballot, right, So
it's not even their fault. The Hall of Fame is
just said, well, he's ineligible to be in baseball, so
he's ineligible to be in our Hall of Fame. I
believe he should have been put on the ballot, but
you can't blame the voters for that. Voters will apply
their own criteria. Voters will apply their own bias, their
human beings. Part of me can understand that, But sometimes
there is a resume that is so clear cut good

(01:53:38):
that it stands. Eddie Murray was famously just awful to writers,
but you couldn't look at his numbers and go, dude,
not a Hall of Famer like he clearly was. And
so I'm sure there were writers who begrudgingly were like,
you know what, this guy was a jerk to me.
But the resume is so damn good, I'm going to
put him in. How does that not happen with Bill Belichick?

Speaker 11 (01:53:58):
That's what I'm saying. The writers and the people that
vote are like here's my chance to really stick it
to him.

Speaker 2 (01:54:05):
Maybe, And so what I love about the Baseball Hall
of Fame process is you may take issue with it,
but it's pretty cut and dry. Right here are the voters.
Most of them reveal their ballots, many of them write
opinion pieces on their ballot. There is a level of transparency.
You know how many ballots are out there, you know
what percentage each candidate has to get in order to

(01:54:27):
get induction. It's pretty cut and dry. The Pro Football
Hall of Fame voting process has always been weird and
sort of shrouded in secrecy, and we don't entirely know
how it works. What I am hopeful for is some
of the people, and I doubt that this will happen,
but maybe it does, is that some of the people
who voted know on Bill Belichick explain their reason why.

(01:54:48):
I'm sure there's going to be someone who says, look,
there were too many cheating scandals that he was connected
to for me to give him a first ballot.

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
I don't agree with.

Speaker 2 (01:54:57):
That take, but I would at least like to hear it.
If that's how you feel, tell me, and what I
like about the Baseball Hall of fame is not everyone,
but most writers. Here's my ballot. Here's why I voted
the way I did. I often disagree.

Speaker 3 (01:55:12):
Go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 11 (01:55:14):
I scandals are like fine, and scandals are his scandals
are like fine and the hair and soup. I guess
it runs the whole soup, right, It's like, come on.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
Well, I always say I'm a body of work guy,
A body of work dude. One eight titles. I don't
get it, Jim, I gotta run man. Thanks, Yep, it
doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. Pat, you're
on ESPN fifteen thirty high.

Speaker 8 (01:55:36):
Pat, let's make some sense out of some future bets
for college basketball championship. Okay, I'm gonna give you hypothetical
thousand dollars. Oh, I'm gonna run a couple of teams
by you tell me if you want to look at
how quick airs under the opposite four to one, do

(01:55:57):
nine to one, Early at eleven to one.

Speaker 10 (01:56:02):
Gators defending champions twenty two to one, h.

Speaker 8 (01:56:06):
To the Izzo at twenty five to one.

Speaker 3 (01:56:10):
You're beloved, bear cat.

Speaker 6 (01:56:12):
Far that's cool.

Speaker 11 (01:56:14):
That far.

Speaker 3 (01:56:16):
I think they're they're.

Speaker 8 (01:56:17):
I think they're.

Speaker 2 (01:56:20):
One hundred to one, so to make the tournament or
win the whole thing.

Speaker 8 (01:56:24):
Michigan win the whole time. Michigan's basically five to one.
I would stay fourteen to one, produce sixteen to one.
He had a thousand bucks. That's Santuary twenty seventh.

Speaker 11 (01:56:33):
Wait too early?

Speaker 10 (01:56:34):
Yeah, so do you like it?

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
I think right now? The abba? I think right now
the answer has to be Arizona. Now, Tommy Lloyd's postseason
track record with similarly talented teams maybe isn't the best.
Uh yukon Steam is terrific. Should have beaten Arizona in
that game they play head to head. Hurley is still
the best coach in the country. But like I watched

(01:56:58):
Arizona last night and granted they fell apart in the
final four minutes and tried to give that game away
to BYU, they are the team that when I watch them,
they're the one that most often has me go, holy crap,
they're good, or how do you beat this team? They're
not a great outside shooting team. Maybe that fatal flaw
catches up to them, but they also don't like force

(01:57:19):
a lot of threes either. They don't play into their
weakness and so if I had to bet one. It
would be Arizona, but I would understand a wager on Michigan.
I would understand a wager on Yukon after watching them
last night, I would certainly understand a wager on Duke
where what they did to Louisville in the final thirty
minutes of that game was was something to behold. I
would I think they're flying more under the radar than usual.

(01:57:42):
I would understand a wager on Gonzaga. I wouldn't understand
one on Iowa State. I would not understand one on Illinois.
I love Houston, That's why I want to win. I
think they're too slow Nebraska. I'm not quite there yet,
but I reserve the right to change my mind.

Speaker 10 (01:57:59):
You fly.

Speaker 3 (01:58:00):
There is four hundred to one.

Speaker 8 (01:58:01):
That is generational money for your dad.

Speaker 3 (01:58:04):
I She could then actually afford to go to the
University of Dayton. Pat, thank you. We're done. Tomorrow on
the show, We're gonna go to Mobile.

Speaker 2 (01:58:10):
We're gonna hear from Rick Boring in We're gonna talk
with t Higgins and Chase Brown. Anything you might have
missed go find on the iHeartRadio app. Bill Belichick not
a first ballot Hall of Famer that credibility for that
Hall of Fame is out the window now. Now Ken
Anderson has to get in to give it any sort
of credibility. We're done. Have a great night. Thanks to

(01:58:33):
Tarran for producing, and uh thanks to you for listening.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 4 (01:58:41):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 7 (01:58:48):
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(01:59:09):
I'm going cleanup of a couple of separate crashes in
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Speaker 3 (01:59:19):
This report is