December 2, 2025 • 18 mins
Austin talks Bengals with analyst Joe Goodberry on ESPN 1530!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Tony Pike Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
(00:06):
sponsored in part by Penn Station East Coast Subs. Hand
crept it I grilled subs, fresh cut fries in lemonade.
It's all about good taste. Penn Station East Coast Subs
order on mine today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi, Hello, and welcome into the final hour of Tony
Pike Cincy three to sixty here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
No Tony Today. Tony in for Lance down the Haul
on WLW tonight. You can listen to him after you
listen to Moe from three to six this afternoon. Mo
forty minutes from right now joins me for quick hits.
But right now we talk to Joe daniman earlier. We
(00:48):
now go to Joe Goodberry on this Joe Filled Tuesday
on ESPN fifteen thirty, long time friend of the show,
host of Bengals on the Brain. Joe Goodberry joins me. Now, Hi, Joe,
how are you well.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I'm doing great, Excited to be on here, excited for
the week.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, well, thank you for being here. Let me start
with the defense. The Bengals defense what specifically has has
led to this Bengals defensive turnaround over the last three weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh, there's a lot of layers to that. Because they
were so bad, right, they're historically bad. They're on a
pace that well, you don't want to be on. And
the last three weeks, I think they've figured a few
things out. Number one, their blitz rate has gone up
a lot more. Nol Golden has said that that's because
the young guys are now able to do these things.
They're able to expand some of these calls and give
some different looks, and they understand the defense better so
(01:37):
he can expand the playbook. I believe some of that.
The other part is I think Al Golden figured they're
going to be better against the run if they do
more three to four looks on these base downs and
early downs. And they've been doing that, and I think
it has helped getting bigger bodies at defensive tackle, not
using Demetrius Knight to do like a quasi three four
defense to bring them down to the edge play outside linebacker.
(02:00):
I don't think that ever made sense. They would sometimes
kick in at the end and then have night at
outside linebacker. Instead, they've been going with three defensive tackles.
McKinley Jackson's getting more run. I think he's been a
plus player when he's been in for his fifteen snats
or so, and then you're getting Josephsai and Miles Murphy
kicked out at least one more tech, one more gap
and giving them more advantageous situations on the edge, giving
(02:22):
you five defensive linemen on the front, and I think
that helps you defend the run for sure. I think
the other part is underrated. One that probably nationally no
one would bring up or even be aware of, is
eltlevating Jalen Davis to the slot corner rolling kicking Dax
sell out to the boundary. At first, they hurt Dax.
I mean that first game he got beat d by
the Patriots, Kishon Boody had those couple of one pass
(02:44):
interference that didn't look good for him. But I think
Dax need to get his legs under him. We know
he can do it. He did it last year. But
Jaylen Davis has been a plus player in terms of
blitzaying run, defense, tackling, and I think that's been good
for them overall to get some three guys they can
trust that those positions.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Why do you think it took so long to get
Jalen Davis an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I think they really still wanted Cam Taylor Britt to
be that guy on the boundary right, Like we've seen
enough flashes throughout his four years before, you know, going
on IR this year that I think made people believe
and I always felt it too, like, man, if they
could just straighten him out, if he could just apply himself,
if he could just go on a heater, that he
would look really good and that would make your cornerback
room better. Like, let's be honest, even with Jalen Davis
(03:27):
playing well right now, in the corner room looks really good.
DJ Turner's at an all pro level. If if Cam
Taylor Britt was who we've seen flashes of and he
was that high end guy orderline cornerback one looking in
a lot of these flashes, your corner room would be
really really good with Dex in the slot. So I
think ideally you always wanted that to happen, and sometimes
(03:49):
sometimes the decisions made for you. Cam is out for
the foot injury, and you say, you know what, what's
our best pass forward? It's kicking decks out to the
boundary and elevating Jalen Davis, I think makes.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So those few things that you outlined that in your
mind have have been the keys to them playing better
over the last three weeks. Is that sustainable in your
mind over the last five weeks?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I think it is because they are playing a lot
of young guys. So if All's right and al Golden's
correct and saying, you know, we really couldn't do this
stuff with the playbook because they couldn't handle it. While
that was sad to hear, you know what I mean,
like that maybe we don't have the right guys on
the defenctive side of the Bengals. If it's slowly growing
and you can now do more things and you can
trust guys to do their jobs and you can trust
(04:33):
that you can make this call and guys can make
adjustments based on it on the field, well then yeah,
that's sustainable. Everyone should grow into their role. You're not
supposed to play rookie linebackers around the league unless they're
like hit the ground running, they're really good. You know,
there's two guys this year, but Carson Schwessinger and John
Campbell and even Campbell's lost the starting job in Philadelphia.
He's only begetting about ten to fifteen cents per game
(04:54):
as well. So you're not supposed to play these guys
because it limits your defense. And so the college linebacker
is is much different than the NFL linebackers position. So
I think when the Bengals did this and made this commitment,
they really had to peel back what they were asking
this entire defense to do, and they hurt them because
if you're not going to be overly talented, then you
better be confusing, you better be fundamentally sound, you better
(05:16):
be physical, you better be great tacklers. And they were
none of that stuff for a long time this year.
So as the linebackers slowly get better, and I think
they have, it allows your defense to slowly get better.
And as they all get playing time from the front
to the back half to the linebackers, that allows the
defense to mix it up more and more. So I
do think that's sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think one of the bridespots this year has been
DJ Turner. You mentioned him a moment ago. Why do
you think it has clicked for him? And what has
been you know, the reason he's been so successful? So
far this season.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, let's go back to when he was a prospect. Right,
We've got a smaller guy. He's about one eighty, super fast,
four two six. I believe it was uh and forty.
Very good in man coverage and good ball tracking, ball skills,
but he had short arms. He wasn't the most physical guy,
so a lot of times at the catch point you
would get out muscled, or he just couldn't affect the
play enough. And I called him more of like a
(06:10):
he's a humberd around these receivers in his rookie year,
or he was tight on their hips, but he couldn't
really affect the play. And as the years have gone
now he's gotten better and better of finding a way
to just knock the ball down when the receiver's pulling
it in, or being a little more physical, or getting
stronger as being a third year NFL player, now, I
think all of these things have started to click for
(06:31):
him slowly. And then you bring out Golden then, who's
a heavy man defense guy, and now he's playing more
man than he ever has in his career. It's going
to make him look good. You're putting him in his
element in order to get the best version of himself.
So I think all of those things combined is putting
him on a trajectory this year where I think he
should be considered probably second team All Pro. He should
get a Pro Bowl, not if enough people around the
(06:53):
country recognize it. And I've been trying to put the
data out there and like, you know, here's PFF numbers.
DJ Turner is excellent. Film reviews on DJ Turner. Look
how good he looks. I do think he looks real good.
And we're gonna be talking about when we get to the
spring in summer of potentially an extension in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Do you think that the light bulb has finally turned
on for Miles Murphy.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I don't know that it's turned on. I would say
it's definitely flickering more often than it was. I thought
his rookie year. And I went back and watched this
recently because I wanted to see what he looked like
year one, year or two, and I just watched the
Bills Bengals games from twenty twenty three. He got a
decent amount of snaps in that game as well, But
I wanted to go back and look and say, Okay,
what was the difference because some of the data even
says that Miles was winning at a similar rate as
(07:37):
a pass rusher to what he's winning at now when
he was a rookie. So I said, okay, I don't
remember it that way, so let me go back and look.
And I thought he was. But so the big thing
I saw that was different now is he's much more
aware of how offenses are attacking him, how blocking schemes worked,
and how they're going to try and trick him or
get him to go inside and then they're going to
(07:58):
steal him off. Much more aware where the ball is going,
where the playflow is going, so it allows him to
make more plays. We know he's long, he's very athletic,
and he's got a great get offs. He's always had
a good get off since spending the league. Where he's
lacked was I think the awareness. He didn't have the
snats right, he never was consistently playing. So I think
experience and awareness are tied together for a lot of players,
(08:18):
and you can see that starting to snowball and really grow.
The other part is your hand usage and your moves
and your counter moves. He was elementary at maybe his best,
and now I think it's starting to progress a little
bit more than that. I'm not going to say he's
good yet. He doesn't look like a guy that's a
ten sec guy yet, but those flashes are starting to
be a little bit more consistent. Because we've had games
(08:40):
in moments like this from Miles in the past. But
good players do it three out of four games, right,
So he needs this to continue for the final five games.
If it does, he might get his fiftyeer option picked up,
which is like thirteen point six million, So I'm sure
he's got a lot of reasons to play for that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Talking to Joe Goodbarry, host of Bengals on the Brain
also on X at Joe Goode, Let's go to the
offensive side of the ball, it felt like to me,
Joe that it was basically the same old Bengals offense.
With Joe Burrow back at the Helm against Baltimore on Thursday.
What did you make of his performance and overall, how
(09:15):
do you evaluate the offense after Buffalo?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so Burrow, I thought it was a little rusty
at first. They kind of put him through a crash
course of Hey, forty two throws in the first half.
We're going a treaty like Forrest Gump with his braces,
They're just going to run right out of him, right.
And it worked because in the second half he would
look like Joe Burrow completely. He was moving around, which
is great to see, right. I mean, that was the
one thing, like, all right, it's going to be like
coming back from the calf injury where they got it.
(09:41):
Just going to keep him in a shotgun and he's
not going to move at all. He's just going to
get the ball out in two point two seconds. It
wasn't that, Honestly, if you didn't know he was injured,
especially in the second half after the Russ was off,
you would have no idea that it was his first
time coming back in nine games or to ten weeks,
whatever it was. And I thought he looked like his
normal self, and I he was feeling it and he
was excited. I think the entire offense felt it. Maybe
(10:03):
the defense and special teams are feeling it too. I
don't see why. There's no reason to believe these guys
won't be better when they feel like their franchise quarterback
is going to lead the offense down the field. That
you see it around the league. It always does happen.
I just can't explain it other than you know, if
you during that locker room or not, they might all
to just be seeing Joe Burrow out there and being like,
you know what, we can do it. But the offense
as a whole, the run game has been really good
(10:26):
for the most of this year. Efficiency wise, EPA wise,
success rate wise, this is the best running game of
the Zach Taylor era. In terms of efficiency. They may
miss some of the power speed combo that Joe Mixon had,
but in terms of explosiveness and consistency and pass protection,
they were in a great shape for the running back position.
And on top of that, their pass protection and especially
(10:48):
that Thursday night Thanksgiving game was the best pass protection
we've seen in a long time. It's the highest pass
blocking grade PFF has given them since I believe twenty sixteen.
And when you think about that, that's been a long
ten year of watching and talking offensive line. Now we're
talking about it in a positive way. They're not allowing
saxis this year. It's the lowest rate since twenty fourteen.
(11:08):
We're talking about elite offensive lines in front of Andy
Dalton those two years. It's good. We're in good shape,
and I hope this continues. To hope t Higgins gets
back and they can find their elite level over the
final five games, because if they can, I don't think
anyone wants to play them when they're at their peak
gun offense.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
That's my favorite thing to say about the Bengals at
the end of every season. Nobody wants to play them
at home, right, Yeah, especially when the other thing to
you you mentioned the run game being so good. Is
it as simple as the offensive lineman are just performing better,
or do you think it's a scheme tweak that has
led to that being a more explosive and dependable part
(11:45):
of their offense.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think it is a lot of a scheme tweak.
I think Chase Brown is running really well, but we've
also seen smagp Ryan have more explosives than he's ever
had in his career. Maybe not this last Thursday night
where it seemed like, come on, give the ball to
Chase Brown. Love the finish this game, but the offensive
line has blocked a lot better. And when I talk
in this scheme, I think it's the marrying of the
run in the past and when we used to use
that phrase in the pass and we've talked about that
(12:08):
for a how many offseasons. At this point I was
doing right, like, they got to figure out how to
marry the run in the pass game. Usually I was
thinking about it from the perspective of to make the
passing offense better, Right, let's get the run game going
so the pass offense can look better. They actually did
it in reverse, and it made me think differently this season.
Is their passing the offense is good and everyone around
the league knows it, and they give the Bengals the
(12:29):
lightest boxes in the league. So what are the Bengals
do to get the run game going with that? Is
they make everything still look like a pass and they
run out of it, and they will have screens built
on one side and they'll run the ball the other way,
and it really takes even more defenders out of the box.
And they are there for the first time, really toying
with defenses in terms of instead of letting the defense
(12:50):
dictate when they're going to run the ball, they're almost
dictating to the defense for the first time. I think
them the Zach Taylor era of Hey, we know we're
going to show this, we know we're going to throw
the ball sixty times a game. That's if you let us.
But if you don't bring that other safety in that box,
we will run the ball and we'll actually get explosive
runs out of it. And it's it's it's been great
and I think it's a good way of keeping the
(13:11):
game off of Joe burrow shoulders. Now. I know I'm
saying this after the game where he just threw the
ball forty two times in the first half, but they're
going to get in these games. It's going it's December now,
these games are going to be a grosser, right. The
field is not going to be perfect condition, it's going
to be colder. You're gonna have to lean on Chase
Brown AND's magic Peterran, and I think they are in
position to do that if they have to.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What do you make of the split between Brown and
p Ryan. It feels like a little bit two fifty
to fifty to me. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah? I agree, maybe this Thursday was because they just
rode Chase Brown so heavily the last few weeks whilst
Madgic p Ran was out. That's kind of how I
you know, justified it in my head. Maybe give Brown
a piece snaps off, but he's been too good to
take off the field right now. Honestly, he's been their
second best offensive weapon. It's it's Jamar Chase and then
to me, it's Chase Brown right now. Tiegans is great,
(13:58):
but like you know, you look, get the amount of
usage you're putting on a running back. The guy's gonna
touch them all way more than the number two receiver.
He's gonna have fourteen's on page fourteen hundred and nine
yards I believe it is, which would way out pace
the number two receiver. That's just how the game goes.
And he's been really good, six straight games of one
hundred plus yards because I got to look at the
receiving production because it's an extension of the run game
(14:19):
for the Bengals, especially when it comes to Chase Brown,
and he's got the second most catches on the team.
So I would like to see him on the field more.
I kind of get it, though. They got to give
him a little bit of a break. And I think
Samaja is so reliable usually other than the fumble on
Thanksgiving in past protection, he's so reliable that they would
like to get him out there for at least that
if you can give Chase Brown a mental break from
(14:40):
pass protection, maybe a physical break in past protection, because
he's fine there. He's got one hundred percent pass block
efficiency over the last six weeks as well, so you
can use these guys interchangeably. But I do agree I'm
looking for like a seventy thirty split rather than more
of a fifty to fifty like we saw on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Last thing before I let you go. Does the Trey
Hendrickson situ seem odd to you?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
It does, for sure, and I think it's because we've
been talking about trade for so long. We've heard so
many like you know, the Bengals just being frustrated with
Trey being unhappy every year, wanting a new contract every year.
It's been drama every year for a long time. And
he's a great player, no doubt about it, and he
makes the defense better. I would love to have Trey
Hendrickson back for this stretch run, for this defense, to
(15:23):
try and take it to another level. But the last
we heard, you know, they went from being a back
issue to a hip area issue, maybe a sports hernia,
which it may take time, and I wonder if there
is frustrated frustration, like, hey, this should take a month
or so to heal, and Trey Hendrickson's looking at it like, listen,
(15:44):
I'm not committed to for multiple years. You guys gave
me a one year contract again. I don't have guarantee
money pass this year. I have to worry about myself
and free agency in the offseason. I'm going to make
sure I'm healthy when that time comes. I will play
when I'm ready to play. I already tried to come
back early and got hurt and it didn't work out
for me. He can't have that happen again. So if
he's just waiting until he's healthy and he's going to
(16:06):
take his time, I can't blame the guy because they
haven't committed to him in the long term. But on
the other hand, the Bengals Katie Blackburn's rightly looking at
this like this is exactly why we didn't commit to
Trey andricks in long term. So you know what, I
just as a fan, as someone who enjoys watching the team,
I just want to see him back so it can
help them out. And I hope he's healthy and I
hope he can You're in a high note, so he
can get the money he deserves in the off season.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, you've pointed this out on your social media in
the past before, and I do think it's important to
note that that sometimes football can be as simple as
you just want to watch the best players play for
your team. I think sometimes we forget about that as fans.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's why I always wanted
them to trade for Joe Flacka when it happened. I
wanted them to get a quarterback in here because I
wanted to see t against jamar Chees do their thing.
And I wanted Burrow to return because I like watching
Joe Burrow play, and on the defensive side, I want
to watch Trendrickson play. And if it's the last year
he's in Cincinnati, and what a great five years. It's
been four and a half years. I would like to
(16:59):
see him one more time before it's over.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
No doubt about it. Joe Goodberry Bengals on the Brain,
What are you working on? What do you got coming up?
How can people follow along with everything you're you got
going on?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, tonight at seven o'clock, we got a Bengals on
the Brain presented by First Star Logistics film review of
Joe Burrow's return versus Baltimore. Look for that on the
First Media YouTube channel seven o'clock tonight.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Awesome stuff. Joe, thanks so much. Man, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Thank you, Austin.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is Joe Goodberry at Joe Goodberry on x Dude
knows this stuff. He watches the film. Uh, he consults
the data as you heard him reference a couple of
different times there. And awesome when we get a chance
to talk to him and have him on the show.
One of my favorite guests, one of my favorite people
to follow on Twitter that I've I think I've been
following him for almost fifteen sixteen years now, which is
(17:49):
kind of crazy just to go all around. Good dude.
So go check him out if you haven't already. We'll
take a break. Phone lines back open five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen to thirty. Anything you want to talk about. Plus
hear what Richard Patino said after his Xavier Team one
last night, Here what Wes Miller said after his Bearcat
Team one last night, and each coach's final tune up
(18:12):
ahead of the Skyline Chile Crosstown Shootout. All that, plus
Moegar about half an hour from right now, it's all next.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
From locker room whispers to stadium roars. He's got it
all Moegar today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty
This is Tony Pike Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
(00:06):
sponsored in part by Penn Station East Coast Subs. Hand
crept it I grilled subs, fresh cut fries in lemonade.
It's all about good taste. Penn Station East Coast Subs
order on mine today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi, Hello, and welcome into the final hour of Tony
Pike Cincy three to sixty here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
No Tony Today. Tony in for Lance down the Haul
on WLW tonight. You can listen to him after you
listen to Moe from three to six this afternoon. Mo
forty minutes from right now joins me for quick hits.
But right now we talk to Joe daniman earlier. We
(00:48):
now go to Joe Goodberry on this Joe Filled Tuesday
on ESPN fifteen thirty, long time friend of the show,
host of Bengals on the Brain. Joe Goodberry joins me. Now, Hi, Joe,
how are you well.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I'm doing great, Excited to be on here, excited for
the week.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, well, thank you for being here. Let me start
with the defense. The Bengals defense what specifically has has
led to this Bengals defensive turnaround over the last three weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh, there's a lot of layers to that. Because they
were so bad, right, they're historically bad. They're on a
pace that well, you don't want to be on. And
the last three weeks, I think they've figured a few
things out. Number one, their blitz rate has gone up
a lot more. Nol Golden has said that that's because
the young guys are now able to do these things.
They're able to expand some of these calls and give
some different looks, and they understand the defense better so
(01:37):
he can expand the playbook. I believe some of that.
The other part is I think Al Golden figured they're
going to be better against the run if they do
more three to four looks on these base downs and
early downs. And they've been doing that, and I think
it has helped getting bigger bodies at defensive tackle, not
using Demetrius Knight to do like a quasi three four
defense to bring them down to the edge play outside linebacker.
(02:00):
I don't think that ever made sense. They would sometimes
kick in at the end and then have night at
outside linebacker. Instead, they've been going with three defensive tackles.
McKinley Jackson's getting more run. I think he's been a
plus player when he's been in for his fifteen snats
or so, and then you're getting Josephsai and Miles Murphy
kicked out at least one more tech, one more gap
and giving them more advantageous situations on the edge, giving
(02:22):
you five defensive linemen on the front, and I think
that helps you defend the run for sure. I think
the other part is underrated. One that probably nationally no
one would bring up or even be aware of, is
eltlevating Jalen Davis to the slot corner rolling kicking Dax
sell out to the boundary. At first, they hurt Dax.
I mean that first game he got beat d by
the Patriots, Kishon Boody had those couple of one pass
(02:44):
interference that didn't look good for him. But I think
Dax need to get his legs under him. We know
he can do it. He did it last year. But
Jaylen Davis has been a plus player in terms of
blitzaying run, defense, tackling, and I think that's been good
for them overall to get some three guys they can
trust that those positions.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Why do you think it took so long to get
Jalen Davis an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I think they really still wanted Cam Taylor Britt to
be that guy on the boundary right, Like we've seen
enough flashes throughout his four years before, you know, going
on IR this year that I think made people believe
and I always felt it too, like, man, if they
could just straighten him out, if he could just apply himself,
if he could just go on a heater, that he
would look really good and that would make your cornerback
room better. Like, let's be honest, even with Jalen Davis
(03:27):
playing well right now, in the corner room looks really good.
DJ Turner's at an all pro level. If if Cam
Taylor Britt was who we've seen flashes of and he
was that high end guy orderline cornerback one looking in
a lot of these flashes, your corner room would be
really really good with Dex in the slot. So I
think ideally you always wanted that to happen, and sometimes
(03:49):
sometimes the decisions made for you. Cam is out for
the foot injury, and you say, you know what, what's
our best pass forward? It's kicking decks out to the
boundary and elevating Jalen Davis, I think makes.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So those few things that you outlined that in your
mind have have been the keys to them playing better
over the last three weeks. Is that sustainable in your
mind over the last five weeks?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I think it is because they are playing a lot
of young guys. So if All's right and al Golden's
correct and saying, you know, we really couldn't do this
stuff with the playbook because they couldn't handle it. While
that was sad to hear, you know what I mean,
like that maybe we don't have the right guys on
the defenctive side of the Bengals. If it's slowly growing
and you can now do more things and you can
trust guys to do their jobs and you can trust
(04:33):
that you can make this call and guys can make
adjustments based on it on the field, well then yeah,
that's sustainable. Everyone should grow into their role. You're not
supposed to play rookie linebackers around the league unless they're
like hit the ground running, they're really good. You know,
there's two guys this year, but Carson Schwessinger and John
Campbell and even Campbell's lost the starting job in Philadelphia.
He's only begetting about ten to fifteen cents per game
(04:54):
as well. So you're not supposed to play these guys
because it limits your defense. And so the college linebacker
is is much different than the NFL linebackers position. So
I think when the Bengals did this and made this commitment,
they really had to peel back what they were asking
this entire defense to do, and they hurt them because
if you're not going to be overly talented, then you
better be confusing, you better be fundamentally sound, you better
(05:16):
be physical, you better be great tacklers. And they were
none of that stuff for a long time this year.
So as the linebackers slowly get better, and I think
they have, it allows your defense to slowly get better.
And as they all get playing time from the front
to the back half to the linebackers, that allows the
defense to mix it up more and more. So I
do think that's sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think one of the bridespots this year has been
DJ Turner. You mentioned him a moment ago. Why do
you think it has clicked for him? And what has
been you know, the reason he's been so successful? So
far this season.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, let's go back to when he was a prospect. Right,
We've got a smaller guy. He's about one eighty, super fast,
four two six. I believe it was uh and forty.
Very good in man coverage and good ball tracking, ball skills,
but he had short arms. He wasn't the most physical guy,
so a lot of times at the catch point you
would get out muscled, or he just couldn't affect the
play enough. And I called him more of like a
(06:10):
he's a humberd around these receivers in his rookie year,
or he was tight on their hips, but he couldn't
really affect the play. And as the years have gone
now he's gotten better and better of finding a way
to just knock the ball down when the receiver's pulling
it in, or being a little more physical, or getting
stronger as being a third year NFL player, now, I
think all of these things have started to click for
(06:31):
him slowly. And then you bring out Golden then, who's
a heavy man defense guy, and now he's playing more
man than he ever has in his career. It's going
to make him look good. You're putting him in his
element in order to get the best version of himself.
So I think all of those things combined is putting
him on a trajectory this year where I think he
should be considered probably second team All Pro. He should
get a Pro Bowl, not if enough people around the
(06:53):
country recognize it. And I've been trying to put the
data out there and like, you know, here's PFF numbers.
DJ Turner is excellent. Film reviews on DJ Turner. Look
how good he looks. I do think he looks real good.
And we're gonna be talking about when we get to the
spring in summer of potentially an extension in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Do you think that the light bulb has finally turned
on for Miles Murphy.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I don't know that it's turned on. I would say
it's definitely flickering more often than it was. I thought
his rookie year. And I went back and watched this
recently because I wanted to see what he looked like
year one, year or two, and I just watched the
Bills Bengals games from twenty twenty three. He got a
decent amount of snaps in that game as well, But
I wanted to go back and look and say, Okay,
what was the difference because some of the data even
says that Miles was winning at a similar rate as
(07:37):
a pass rusher to what he's winning at now when
he was a rookie. So I said, okay, I don't
remember it that way, so let me go back and look.
And I thought he was. But so the big thing
I saw that was different now is he's much more
aware of how offenses are attacking him, how blocking schemes worked,
and how they're going to try and trick him or
get him to go inside and then they're going to
(07:58):
steal him off. Much more aware where the ball is going,
where the playflow is going, so it allows him to
make more plays. We know he's long, he's very athletic,
and he's got a great get offs. He's always had
a good get off since spending the league. Where he's
lacked was I think the awareness. He didn't have the
snats right, he never was consistently playing. So I think
experience and awareness are tied together for a lot of players,
(08:18):
and you can see that starting to snowball and really grow.
The other part is your hand usage and your moves
and your counter moves. He was elementary at maybe his best,
and now I think it's starting to progress a little
bit more than that. I'm not going to say he's
good yet. He doesn't look like a guy that's a
ten sec guy yet, but those flashes are starting to
be a little bit more consistent. Because we've had games
(08:40):
in moments like this from Miles in the past. But
good players do it three out of four games, right,
So he needs this to continue for the final five games.
If it does, he might get his fiftyeer option picked up,
which is like thirteen point six million, So I'm sure
he's got a lot of reasons to play for that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Talking to Joe Goodbarry, host of Bengals on the Brain
also on X at Joe Goode, Let's go to the
offensive side of the ball, it felt like to me,
Joe that it was basically the same old Bengals offense.
With Joe Burrow back at the Helm against Baltimore on Thursday.
What did you make of his performance and overall, how
(09:15):
do you evaluate the offense after Buffalo?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so Burrow, I thought it was a little rusty
at first. They kind of put him through a crash
course of Hey, forty two throws in the first half.
We're going a treaty like Forrest Gump with his braces,
They're just going to run right out of him, right.
And it worked because in the second half he would
look like Joe Burrow completely. He was moving around, which
is great to see, right. I mean, that was the
one thing, like, all right, it's going to be like
coming back from the calf injury where they got it.
(09:41):
Just going to keep him in a shotgun and he's
not going to move at all. He's just going to
get the ball out in two point two seconds. It
wasn't that, Honestly, if you didn't know he was injured,
especially in the second half after the Russ was off,
you would have no idea that it was his first
time coming back in nine games or to ten weeks,
whatever it was. And I thought he looked like his
normal self, and I he was feeling it and he
was excited. I think the entire offense felt it. Maybe
(10:03):
the defense and special teams are feeling it too. I
don't see why. There's no reason to believe these guys
won't be better when they feel like their franchise quarterback
is going to lead the offense down the field. That
you see it around the league. It always does happen.
I just can't explain it other than you know, if
you during that locker room or not, they might all
to just be seeing Joe Burrow out there and being like,
you know what, we can do it. But the offense
as a whole, the run game has been really good
(10:26):
for the most of this year. Efficiency wise, EPA wise,
success rate wise, this is the best running game of
the Zach Taylor era. In terms of efficiency. They may
miss some of the power speed combo that Joe Mixon had,
but in terms of explosiveness and consistency and pass protection,
they were in a great shape for the running back position.
And on top of that, their pass protection and especially
(10:48):
that Thursday night Thanksgiving game was the best pass protection
we've seen in a long time. It's the highest pass
blocking grade PFF has given them since I believe twenty sixteen.
And when you think about that, that's been a long
ten year of watching and talking offensive line. Now we're
talking about it in a positive way. They're not allowing
saxis this year. It's the lowest rate since twenty fourteen.
(11:08):
We're talking about elite offensive lines in front of Andy
Dalton those two years. It's good. We're in good shape,
and I hope this continues. To hope t Higgins gets
back and they can find their elite level over the
final five games, because if they can, I don't think
anyone wants to play them when they're at their peak
gun offense.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
That's my favorite thing to say about the Bengals at
the end of every season. Nobody wants to play them
at home, right, Yeah, especially when the other thing to
you you mentioned the run game being so good. Is
it as simple as the offensive lineman are just performing better,
or do you think it's a scheme tweak that has
led to that being a more explosive and dependable part
(11:45):
of their offense.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think it is a lot of a scheme tweak.
I think Chase Brown is running really well, but we've
also seen smagp Ryan have more explosives than he's ever
had in his career. Maybe not this last Thursday night
where it seemed like, come on, give the ball to
Chase Brown. Love the finish this game, but the offensive
line has blocked a lot better. And when I talk
in this scheme, I think it's the marrying of the
run in the past and when we used to use
that phrase in the pass and we've talked about that
(12:08):
for a how many offseasons. At this point I was
doing right, like, they got to figure out how to
marry the run in the pass game. Usually I was
thinking about it from the perspective of to make the
passing offense better, Right, let's get the run game going
so the pass offense can look better. They actually did
it in reverse, and it made me think differently this season.
Is their passing the offense is good and everyone around
the league knows it, and they give the Bengals the
(12:29):
lightest boxes in the league. So what are the Bengals
do to get the run game going with that? Is
they make everything still look like a pass and they
run out of it, and they will have screens built
on one side and they'll run the ball the other way,
and it really takes even more defenders out of the box.
And they are there for the first time, really toying
with defenses in terms of instead of letting the defense
(12:50):
dictate when they're going to run the ball, they're almost
dictating to the defense for the first time. I think
them the Zach Taylor era of Hey, we know we're
going to show this, we know we're going to throw
the ball sixty times a game. That's if you let us.
But if you don't bring that other safety in that box,
we will run the ball and we'll actually get explosive
runs out of it. And it's it's it's been great
and I think it's a good way of keeping the
(13:11):
game off of Joe burrow shoulders. Now. I know I'm
saying this after the game where he just threw the
ball forty two times in the first half, but they're
going to get in these games. It's going it's December now,
these games are going to be a grosser, right. The
field is not going to be perfect condition, it's going
to be colder. You're gonna have to lean on Chase
Brown AND's magic Peterran, and I think they are in
position to do that if they have to.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What do you make of the split between Brown and
p Ryan. It feels like a little bit two fifty
to fifty to me. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah? I agree, maybe this Thursday was because they just
rode Chase Brown so heavily the last few weeks whilst
Madgic p Ran was out. That's kind of how I
you know, justified it in my head. Maybe give Brown
a piece snaps off, but he's been too good to
take off the field right now. Honestly, he's been their
second best offensive weapon. It's it's Jamar Chase and then
to me, it's Chase Brown right now. Tiegans is great,
(13:58):
but like you know, you look, get the amount of
usage you're putting on a running back. The guy's gonna
touch them all way more than the number two receiver.
He's gonna have fourteen's on page fourteen hundred and nine
yards I believe it is, which would way out pace
the number two receiver. That's just how the game goes.
And he's been really good, six straight games of one
hundred plus yards because I got to look at the
receiving production because it's an extension of the run game
(14:19):
for the Bengals, especially when it comes to Chase Brown,
and he's got the second most catches on the team.
So I would like to see him on the field more.
I kind of get it, though. They got to give
him a little bit of a break. And I think
Samaja is so reliable usually other than the fumble on
Thanksgiving in past protection, he's so reliable that they would
like to get him out there for at least that
if you can give Chase Brown a mental break from
(14:40):
pass protection, maybe a physical break in past protection, because
he's fine there. He's got one hundred percent pass block
efficiency over the last six weeks as well, so you
can use these guys interchangeably. But I do agree I'm
looking for like a seventy thirty split rather than more
of a fifty to fifty like we saw on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Last thing before I let you go. Does the Trey
Hendrickson situ seem odd to you?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
It does, for sure, and I think it's because we've
been talking about trade for so long. We've heard so
many like you know, the Bengals just being frustrated with
Trey being unhappy every year, wanting a new contract every year.
It's been drama every year for a long time. And
he's a great player, no doubt about it, and he
makes the defense better. I would love to have Trey
Hendrickson back for this stretch run, for this defense, to
(15:23):
try and take it to another level. But the last
we heard, you know, they went from being a back
issue to a hip area issue, maybe a sports hernia,
which it may take time, and I wonder if there
is frustrated frustration, like, hey, this should take a month
or so to heal, and Trey Hendrickson's looking at it like, listen,
(15:44):
I'm not committed to for multiple years. You guys gave
me a one year contract again. I don't have guarantee
money pass this year. I have to worry about myself
and free agency in the offseason. I'm going to make
sure I'm healthy when that time comes. I will play
when I'm ready to play. I already tried to come
back early and got hurt and it didn't work out
for me. He can't have that happen again. So if
he's just waiting until he's healthy and he's going to
(16:06):
take his time, I can't blame the guy because they
haven't committed to him in the long term. But on
the other hand, the Bengals Katie Blackburn's rightly looking at
this like this is exactly why we didn't commit to
Trey andricks in long term. So you know what, I
just as a fan, as someone who enjoys watching the team,
I just want to see him back so it can
help them out. And I hope he's healthy and I
hope he can You're in a high note, so he
can get the money he deserves in the off season.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, you've pointed this out on your social media in
the past before, and I do think it's important to
note that that sometimes football can be as simple as
you just want to watch the best players play for
your team. I think sometimes we forget about that as fans.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's why I always wanted
them to trade for Joe Flacka when it happened. I
wanted them to get a quarterback in here because I
wanted to see t against jamar Chees do their thing.
And I wanted Burrow to return because I like watching
Joe Burrow play, and on the defensive side, I want
to watch Trendrickson play. And if it's the last year
he's in Cincinnati, and what a great five years. It's
been four and a half years. I would like to
(16:59):
see him one more time before it's over.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
No doubt about it. Joe Goodberry Bengals on the Brain,
What are you working on? What do you got coming up?
How can people follow along with everything you're you got
going on?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, tonight at seven o'clock, we got a Bengals on
the Brain presented by First Star Logistics film review of
Joe Burrow's return versus Baltimore. Look for that on the
First Media YouTube channel seven o'clock tonight.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Awesome stuff. Joe, thanks so much. Man, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Thank you, Austin.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is Joe Goodberry at Joe Goodberry on x Dude
knows this stuff. He watches the film. Uh, he consults
the data as you heard him reference a couple of
different times there. And awesome when we get a chance
to talk to him and have him on the show.
One of my favorite guests, one of my favorite people
to follow on Twitter that I've I think I've been
following him for almost fifteen sixteen years now, which is
(17:49):
kind of crazy just to go all around. Good dude.
So go check him out if you haven't already. We'll
take a break. Phone lines back open five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen to thirty. Anything you want to talk about. Plus
hear what Richard Patino said after his Xavier Team one
last night, Here what Wes Miller said after his Bearcat
Team one last night, and each coach's final tune up
(18:12):
ahead of the Skyline Chile Crosstown Shootout. All that, plus
Moegar about half an hour from right now, it's all next.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
From locker room whispers to stadium roars. He's got it
all Moegar today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty
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