April 8, 2026 • 17 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are two kinds of people in this world, dog
people and people who still need to meet the right dog.
That's what Amelia said when she brought me home to Miguel.
That may be, but I'm happiest being a you person,
he replied. Then he kissed her and went back to
reading a novel.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast. Sorry, here's your host
and podcast librarian award winning poet, future bestselling author, and
host of one of the most listened to radio shows
in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hello, book lovers, and welcome to another episode of the
Public Library Podcast. I'm so excited about my guest today.
I have a return guest, Camille Pegan is back with us.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's been a while, it's been a minute.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, but thank you so much. I'm so excited about
your brand new book. It's called dog Person, and you
gotta tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, Helen, thank you. So you know, as I just
told you offline that you are the only person I'm
speaking to you today outside of my launch event. When
you were like, come on the show, I was like, oh, yes, please,
that'd be amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Dog Person is the story of Harold, who is an
aging mutt and he is helping his grieving owner search
for a missing novelist because the owner thinks he's misguided
that this is going to save their bookstore, but Harold
ends up getting his owner tangled up in the affairs
of the author's sonny but secretive sister and her precocious daughter,
(01:26):
and together they find the thing that they are all
least expecting, which is a second chance at love.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
So why this story? Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I never ever thought I would write from a dog's perspective.
I loved the art of raising the rain a dog's purpose,
so many stories like that, And a couple of years
ago I suffered a really profound loss. I lost a
person who was like a father figure and a writing
mentor to me, and my own aging dog who made
(01:58):
me a dog person. She just seemed to know what
I needed in the most uncanny way. She'd be at
my side if I was sad, she would just come
sit with me, and she seemed to be watching, and
I'll admit judging me a little bit, but also helping me.
And so I one day, like most stories, it just
(02:20):
popped into my head and I thought, oh gosh, I
have to do this. I have to write this story,
and so I always write a little away from my
own life. The dog who narrates this story is male,
not female. He's helping a man rather than a woman,
and his owner, Miguel, is not a writer. Miguel owns
(02:41):
a bookstore, so he's a bookish person, which you know.
I love bookstores, books, things set in that world. But
it's not my story. Rather, it's just an expression of
what I experienced with my own dog.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
You had such rich characters in here. Obviously, Harold tells
the story, but Miguel informs us in a whole different way.
And what I've really liked about him is, I mean,
he was very three D. He's Puerto Rican, he spoke Spanish.
I didn't bother to translate some of the things, even
though I didn't know what they meant. I kind of
inferred that I knew what they meant. There were some
(03:16):
words that I knew. But where did you come up
with him?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
He was? His heart was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, Miguel was very much based on my husband, with
his permission, and he read the book before anyone else
did and came up to me with tears in his
eyes and he just said I loved it, and I
knew that it was okay. So my husband has the
biggest heart. He's just a wonderful person. And someone had
asked me, you know, this story is very much about
(03:43):
unconditional love, that it doesn't come naturally, it's not automatic
in many relationships outside of a pet relationship. And the
reality is I really learned what unconditional love is from
my own husband. He I didn't have that growing up,
like lots of people. I thought that it had to
be earned, that it was very precarious. And shortly after
(04:07):
we met, my husband said I love you, and I said,
you're nuts. What are you talking about? And the man
said about showing me that he meant it. And you know,
twenty almost twenty six years later, we're still together.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, and he is the best human on the planet.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So how did you prepare to write from Harold's the
dog's point of view? I mean, you have four mets,
all dogs?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Oh no, I have four pets, one dog, three cats.
I was actually a cat person, Helen. Okay, so I
was not a dog person until I met my own dog.
That was thirteen years ago. I read a book that
really inspired me. It's called Let's Take the Long Way
Home by Gail Caldwell. It's a memoir and it's about
her friendship with another writer who dies, and it's also
(04:55):
about dogs. And so I went to the shelter and
got my dog.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
How did you learn how to write from Harold's voice?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You had your dog who was there with you, But
how did you learn to bring voice to that?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah? I had to be very patient. This book took
me three years start to finish, at least inspiration to publication,
and typically I write much faster. The process is faster.
And it was really nailing that first chapter and realizing
that I understood how Harold spoke the way that he
(05:32):
looked at life, And there was a lot of editing
involved because of course dogs, for example, they can't see
color all the way. They see blue and yellow and
various shades in that range, but they don't see the
world the way that we see it. They perceive more
through scent than we do, so there was a lot
of sensory elements that went in where I had to
(05:54):
think about how I was describing what he was perceiving.
And of course, most tragically, Harold can't read right So
this is a book about books set in a bookstore,
and Harold is, you know, upset that he cannot take
place in this wonderful activity that we love so much.
So it was just a process of inspiration and then refinement, refinement, refinement.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I had to laugh a little bit at the fact
that they could only see blue and yellow, because I
know you were at ann Arbor and Michigan just one.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
One last night, I know, could you believe it?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And those are their colors, so, oh my gosh. I
couldn't help but not bring that up.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I love the setting, obviously the bookstore, but the small
town on Lake Michigan.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
How did location play into this story?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, my books tend to be set in three places.
Either in Puerto Rico, where we spent a lot of time.
My husband's from there. We've brought our kids there at
least every summer plus other parts of the year to
be with our family, Lake Michigan, which I think is
the most beautiful place in the entire world, and come
at me at that one anyone, it's so beautiful. And
(07:05):
then often in New York because I lived in New
York for a decade and it's just the place of
my soul. The minute I step foot onto a sidewalk,
I'm at home again. So yeah, those are those are
where you'll find me and my stories.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
One thing that I like about your book is that
you have the ability to jerk a few tears from mine.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
I do every every single time.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think you described once that you write witty weepers
with lots of romance.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, you make us cry.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh, my family would tell you. I'm a highly emotional person.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I think life is funny and wonderful and often very sad,
and so it's just not a heavy lift for me
to tap into that sentiment. It's a much heavier lift
for me to try to write like someone i'm not.
And you know, I work with writers as well, and
that's not as a book coach. I really work more
as a career coach, but in helping them develop the
(08:04):
unique thing that's going to make them succeed. It is
really about self acceptance of like, oh, this is how
I see the world, and if I put that on
the page versus how I think I should write, it's
going to work. And that has been my eleven book career.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's awesome and it's interesting because you know, I love
a book that makes me feel big emotions and yeah,
you know that's that's why I'm a fan.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
No, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I know it may be hard to pin down, but
who is your favorite character to write? They all are
very rich and alive, and you may be surprised that
who my favorite character was other than Harold.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Who was your favorite to write?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Was it har I loved No, it was Dane. Oh,
I loved writing Dane. Yeah. I think male friendships are
much maligned overlooked. My husband, many of the men in
my life have really deep friendships that are enduring and
important and sometimes hard one. And so Dane is a
(09:05):
bookseller at Miguel's bookstore who really shows up for Miguel,
who doesn't want to be around people. He wants to
be by himself. He's stubborn, digging his heels in the
way that grief can cause us to do. And I've
experienced that firsthand. A lot of us, myself included, are
very like tortoise, like we want to just get in
the shell and stay there. So Dane is this wacky
(09:28):
kind of surfer dude. He has a secret past that
you find out about in the book that Miguel has
no idea exists, and he was just so fun. He
was just the voice the experience him slowly bringing out
this character. I loved writing him.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, he was great. He was one of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I really liked Harold's owner a Milia.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
She informs the story in such a way that you
have to use a little bit more of your man,
so to speak. So she always sat here on my
shoulder as I was reading through the book.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I thought that was a really cool experience. I mean, yeah,
as a reader.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
There is also another storyline in this book that I
want to ask about, but I don't want to give
anything away.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
It's a part of a twist. It's a storyline. It
ticked me off because it's so real.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Without giving anything away, what made you include this, I'm
gonna say, twist of injustice as a part of the story.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Can we even talk about this?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
We can talk about it without the spoiler? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Jonathan Middleton Biggs is this famous author very much modeled
on many of the authors I encountered when I first
started working and publishing twenty five years ago. You know,
there was this thing about these mythical genius men that
were young, bright things and just you know, put up
(11:00):
on pedestals in publishing. And sometimes that was rightly so,
and sometimes it wasn't. But you know, this book takes
place in two thousand and three, and that was a
time I got my start at HarperCollins before moving over
into magazine journalism. You know, Romance was paying all the bills,
but it was just so much stigma, so much more
(11:21):
than today. And so I based this character on many
of those men who were exalted, and he goes missing
because he can't handle the fame, he can't handle all
the pressure. And there's another secret behind this all. And
I just wanted to shine a very little spotlight on
(11:41):
public perception of what is true literature, what has value
in books. And I think I accomplished that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You did.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean that that was like what.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I had to bring it up because it was it
was for me one of the most I mean, I'm
a writer, so for me it was one of the
most important parts of the book.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
But I didn't want to spoil anything. Yes, full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I have worked with you as a career coach, and
you've helped me and many others to become novelist, you
coach other writers, and in that process does it help
you as a writer?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And how Oh yes, I tell anyone who's considering some
sort of other career outside of fiction, which is wise right.
It takes a really long time to build enough of
a backlist to pay the bills in fiction. I am
not one of those. I'm an optimist, but I am
also deeply realistic. I grew up in Ford Country over
(12:49):
here in Dearborn, Michigan, so blue collar pay the bills first.
And I really believe in doing something that will benefit
your fiction if you're able to and Helen you probably
feel this way too. But every conversation I have with
a novelist inspires me. Yeah, it shows me possibility. It
reminds me why we do this work, because if you
write fiction, you are drawn to it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I'll often tell people like they'll say, I want to
give this up, it's too hard. I'm like, I know
it's hard, go ahead and try to quit and then
call me in three days because we can't.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
No, I mean it is. It's it's a calling.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I'm not even it's a it's a calling. And when
you have a calling, you have to.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Do it, that's right.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, you've written did you say this is twelve eleven?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
This is eleven twelve is out next day?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Brill Yeah, okay, but you're already, You're already.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's That's part of what I've learned about you as
a as a coach, is that you already onto the
next one and the next one and the next one.
So you've got book next already and book today is
brand new.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah right, But there was a three year gap between
the last book I published, which was good for you
in twenty twenty three. How to think about the math there?
Time has no meaning to me post pandemic, right, I know,
my brain just doesn't work the same way. And then
three years later this book, Dog Person is out. So
there was a gap, And I think that is the
(14:20):
beauty of creating a body of work is that sometimes
for me, I was grieving. It took a really long
time to write this book. I just couldn't do it
at the same pace that I've been doing it. And
now I feel like I'm back on track. I kind
of see where I'm going. It's great, but there has
to be some flexibility in art because it's not widgets,
(14:41):
it's not pushing numbers.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
It's not for assembly line, that's right.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
One of the things that I saw that was in
the book is an offer to teach someone how to
make koquito?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Can you ta assembly lines? We do that every Christmas
over here, Oh my God, with Pagan family is famous.
We make deliveries all around ann Arbor to all of
our friends and we'll start getting messages around, you know,
December fifth, where is the coquito?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah? So what do you hope people take away from
Dog Person?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I really hope that anyone who is hurting heals from
this book. I really feel that way for every story,
but this one in particular. I'm not worried about the reviews.
I'm not worried about sales. I mean, I not them
would I think it'll go well. But the experience of
writing it healed me, and that's what I want readers
(15:44):
to come away with. I think this is such a
hard time right now for a lot of people. I
know life is hard in general. You know, this country's
in a state that it's been in for about two
hundred and fifty years, and now we're seeing it in
pull this way. I just want people to have a
little hope.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
That is beautiful. I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Thanks, and you know, I'm sure everyone is going to
love this book. I have already bought a couple of
copies for friends of mine that are dog people.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
You got to read this book. And you know they
always ask you one question.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
I'm like, I'm not telling you anything, but it's not
what you think if that's the one question. And I
don't even want to say what the one question is
because most pedlars know what that one question is.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
They do. And I have a little disclaimer in the front.
This book has a happy ending.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Yeah it does. It does.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It has So if people want to learn more about
your books, or your coaching business, or your social media
or your podcast or the other.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Million things that you do. Have you ever thought about
a bookstore.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Helen, I'm going to run a book imprint one day.
You heard it here. First, There'll be no store. I'm
just going to run the entire publishing company.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I love that. Yeah, So what's the best way to
connect with you?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
My website's probably the best place to find all the things.
So it's Camille Pagan dot com.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Okay, Camille, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm so excited about your coming success for dog Person,
and I wish you the best on all of this,
and thank.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
You, oh my gosh, for all of the encouragement and
the help.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
It's funny we met here on the podcast. I sorrowed
you on social media. I started to see the things
you were doing and I realized, I'm like, I need
that kind of help, and I'm so glad that I
had the courage to help you.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You are a delight. I cannot wait to read your book.
That's all I'm going to say. Thank you so much,
Oh my pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Another show in the books. Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast, a place to check
out books.
There are two kinds of people in this world, dog
people and people who still need to meet the right dog.
That's what Amelia said when she brought me home to Miguel.
That may be, but I'm happiest being a you person,
he replied. Then he kissed her and went back to
reading a novel.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast. Sorry, here's your host
and podcast librarian award winning poet, future bestselling author, and
host of one of the most listened to radio shows
in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hello, book lovers, and welcome to another episode of the
Public Library Podcast. I'm so excited about my guest today.
I have a return guest, Camille Pegan is back with us.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's been a while, it's been a minute.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, but thank you so much. I'm so excited about
your brand new book. It's called dog Person, and you
gotta tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, Helen, thank you. So you know, as I just
told you offline that you are the only person I'm
speaking to you today outside of my launch event. When
you were like, come on the show, I was like, oh, yes, please,
that'd be amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Dog Person is the story of Harold, who is an
aging mutt and he is helping his grieving owner search
for a missing novelist because the owner thinks he's misguided
that this is going to save their bookstore, but Harold
ends up getting his owner tangled up in the affairs
of the author's sonny but secretive sister and her precocious daughter,
(01:26):
and together they find the thing that they are all
least expecting, which is a second chance at love.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
So why this story? Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I never ever thought I would write from a dog's perspective.
I loved the art of raising the rain a dog's purpose,
so many stories like that, And a couple of years
ago I suffered a really profound loss. I lost a
person who was like a father figure and a writing
mentor to me, and my own aging dog who made
(01:58):
me a dog person. She just seemed to know what
I needed in the most uncanny way. She'd be at
my side if I was sad, she would just come
sit with me, and she seemed to be watching, and
I'll admit judging me a little bit, but also helping me.
And so I one day, like most stories, it just
(02:20):
popped into my head and I thought, oh gosh, I
have to do this. I have to write this story,
and so I always write a little away from my
own life. The dog who narrates this story is male,
not female. He's helping a man rather than a woman,
and his owner, Miguel, is not a writer. Miguel owns
(02:41):
a bookstore, so he's a bookish person, which you know.
I love bookstores, books, things set in that world. But
it's not my story. Rather, it's just an expression of
what I experienced with my own dog.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
You had such rich characters in here. Obviously, Harold tells
the story, but Miguel informs us in a whole different way.
And what I've really liked about him is, I mean,
he was very three D. He's Puerto Rican, he spoke Spanish.
I didn't bother to translate some of the things, even
though I didn't know what they meant. I kind of
inferred that I knew what they meant. There were some
(03:16):
words that I knew. But where did you come up
with him?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
He was? His heart was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, Miguel was very much based on my husband, with
his permission, and he read the book before anyone else
did and came up to me with tears in his
eyes and he just said I loved it, and I
knew that it was okay. So my husband has the
biggest heart. He's just a wonderful person. And someone had
asked me, you know, this story is very much about
(03:43):
unconditional love, that it doesn't come naturally, it's not automatic
in many relationships outside of a pet relationship. And the
reality is I really learned what unconditional love is from
my own husband. He I didn't have that growing up,
like lots of people. I thought that it had to
be earned, that it was very precarious. And shortly after
(04:07):
we met, my husband said I love you, and I said,
you're nuts. What are you talking about? And the man
said about showing me that he meant it. And you know,
twenty almost twenty six years later, we're still together.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, and he is the best human on the planet.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So how did you prepare to write from Harold's the
dog's point of view? I mean, you have four mets,
all dogs?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Oh no, I have four pets, one dog, three cats.
I was actually a cat person, Helen. Okay, so I
was not a dog person until I met my own dog.
That was thirteen years ago. I read a book that
really inspired me. It's called Let's Take the Long Way
Home by Gail Caldwell. It's a memoir and it's about
her friendship with another writer who dies, and it's also
(04:55):
about dogs. And so I went to the shelter and
got my dog.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
How did you learn how to write from Harold's voice?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You had your dog who was there with you, But
how did you learn to bring voice to that?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah? I had to be very patient. This book took
me three years start to finish, at least inspiration to publication,
and typically I write much faster. The process is faster.
And it was really nailing that first chapter and realizing
that I understood how Harold spoke the way that he
(05:32):
looked at life, And there was a lot of editing
involved because of course dogs, for example, they can't see
color all the way. They see blue and yellow and
various shades in that range, but they don't see the
world the way that we see it. They perceive more
through scent than we do, so there was a lot
of sensory elements that went in where I had to
(05:54):
think about how I was describing what he was perceiving.
And of course, most tragically, Harold can't read right So
this is a book about books set in a bookstore,
and Harold is, you know, upset that he cannot take
place in this wonderful activity that we love so much.
So it was just a process of inspiration and then refinement, refinement, refinement.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I had to laugh a little bit at the fact
that they could only see blue and yellow, because I
know you were at ann Arbor and Michigan just one.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
One last night, I know, could you believe it?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And those are their colors, so, oh my gosh. I
couldn't help but not bring that up.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I love the setting, obviously the bookstore, but the small
town on Lake Michigan.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
How did location play into this story?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, my books tend to be set in three places.
Either in Puerto Rico, where we spent a lot of time.
My husband's from there. We've brought our kids there at
least every summer plus other parts of the year to
be with our family, Lake Michigan, which I think is
the most beautiful place in the entire world, and come
at me at that one anyone, it's so beautiful. And
(07:05):
then often in New York because I lived in New
York for a decade and it's just the place of
my soul. The minute I step foot onto a sidewalk,
I'm at home again. So yeah, those are those are
where you'll find me and my stories.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
One thing that I like about your book is that
you have the ability to jerk a few tears from mine.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
I do every every single time.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think you described once that you write witty weepers
with lots of romance.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, you make us cry.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh, my family would tell you. I'm a highly emotional person.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I think life is funny and wonderful and often very sad,
and so it's just not a heavy lift for me
to tap into that sentiment. It's a much heavier lift
for me to try to write like someone i'm not.
And you know, I work with writers as well, and
that's not as a book coach. I really work more
as a career coach, but in helping them develop the
(08:04):
unique thing that's going to make them succeed. It is
really about self acceptance of like, oh, this is how
I see the world, and if I put that on
the page versus how I think I should write, it's
going to work. And that has been my eleven book career.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's awesome and it's interesting because you know, I love
a book that makes me feel big emotions and yeah,
you know that's that's why I'm a fan.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
No, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I know it may be hard to pin down, but
who is your favorite character to write? They all are
very rich and alive, and you may be surprised that
who my favorite character was other than Harold.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Who was your favorite to write?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Was it har I loved No, it was Dane. Oh,
I loved writing Dane. Yeah. I think male friendships are
much maligned overlooked. My husband, many of the men in
my life have really deep friendships that are enduring and
important and sometimes hard one. And so Dane is a
(09:05):
bookseller at Miguel's bookstore who really shows up for Miguel,
who doesn't want to be around people. He wants to
be by himself. He's stubborn, digging his heels in the
way that grief can cause us to do. And I've
experienced that firsthand. A lot of us, myself included, are
very like tortoise, like we want to just get in
the shell and stay there. So Dane is this wacky
(09:28):
kind of surfer dude. He has a secret past that
you find out about in the book that Miguel has
no idea exists, and he was just so fun. He
was just the voice the experience him slowly bringing out
this character. I loved writing him.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, he was great. He was one of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I really liked Harold's owner a Milia.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
She informs the story in such a way that you
have to use a little bit more of your man,
so to speak. So she always sat here on my
shoulder as I was reading through the book.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I thought that was a really cool experience. I mean, yeah,
as a reader.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
There is also another storyline in this book that I
want to ask about, but I don't want to give
anything away.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
It's a part of a twist. It's a storyline. It
ticked me off because it's so real.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Without giving anything away, what made you include this, I'm
gonna say, twist of injustice as a part of the story.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Can we even talk about this?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
We can talk about it without the spoiler? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Jonathan Middleton Biggs is this famous author very much modeled
on many of the authors I encountered when I first
started working and publishing twenty five years ago. You know,
there was this thing about these mythical genius men that
were young, bright things and just you know, put up
(11:00):
on pedestals in publishing. And sometimes that was rightly so,
and sometimes it wasn't. But you know, this book takes
place in two thousand and three, and that was a
time I got my start at HarperCollins before moving over
into magazine journalism. You know, Romance was paying all the bills,
but it was just so much stigma, so much more
(11:21):
than today. And so I based this character on many
of those men who were exalted, and he goes missing
because he can't handle the fame, he can't handle all
the pressure. And there's another secret behind this all. And
I just wanted to shine a very little spotlight on
(11:41):
public perception of what is true literature, what has value
in books. And I think I accomplished that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You did.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean that that was like what.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I had to bring it up because it was it
was for me one of the most I mean, I'm
a writer, so for me it was one of the
most important parts of the book.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
But I didn't want to spoil anything. Yes, full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I have worked with you as a career coach, and
you've helped me and many others to become novelist, you
coach other writers, and in that process does it help
you as a writer?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And how Oh yes, I tell anyone who's considering some
sort of other career outside of fiction, which is wise right.
It takes a really long time to build enough of
a backlist to pay the bills in fiction. I am
not one of those. I'm an optimist, but I am
also deeply realistic. I grew up in Ford Country over
(12:49):
here in Dearborn, Michigan, so blue collar pay the bills first.
And I really believe in doing something that will benefit
your fiction if you're able to and Helen you probably
feel this way too. But every conversation I have with
a novelist inspires me. Yeah, it shows me possibility. It
reminds me why we do this work, because if you
write fiction, you are drawn to it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I'll often tell people like they'll say, I want to
give this up, it's too hard. I'm like, I know
it's hard, go ahead and try to quit and then
call me in three days because we can't.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
No, I mean it is. It's it's a calling.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I'm not even it's a it's a calling. And when
you have a calling, you have to.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Do it, that's right.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, you've written did you say this is twelve eleven?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
This is eleven twelve is out next day?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Brill Yeah, okay, but you're already, You're already.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's That's part of what I've learned about you as
a as a coach, is that you already onto the
next one and the next one and the next one.
So you've got book next already and book today is
brand new.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah right, But there was a three year gap between
the last book I published, which was good for you
in twenty twenty three. How to think about the math there?
Time has no meaning to me post pandemic, right, I know,
my brain just doesn't work the same way. And then
three years later this book, Dog Person is out. So
there was a gap, And I think that is the
(14:20):
beauty of creating a body of work is that sometimes
for me, I was grieving. It took a really long
time to write this book. I just couldn't do it
at the same pace that I've been doing it. And
now I feel like I'm back on track. I kind
of see where I'm going. It's great, but there has
to be some flexibility in art because it's not widgets,
(14:41):
it's not pushing numbers.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
It's not for assembly line, that's right.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
One of the things that I saw that was in
the book is an offer to teach someone how to
make koquito?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Can you ta assembly lines? We do that every Christmas
over here, Oh my God, with Pagan family is famous.
We make deliveries all around ann Arbor to all of
our friends and we'll start getting messages around, you know,
December fifth, where is the coquito?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah? So what do you hope people take away from
Dog Person?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I really hope that anyone who is hurting heals from
this book. I really feel that way for every story,
but this one in particular. I'm not worried about the reviews.
I'm not worried about sales. I mean, I not them
would I think it'll go well. But the experience of
writing it healed me, and that's what I want readers
(15:44):
to come away with. I think this is such a
hard time right now for a lot of people. I
know life is hard in general. You know, this country's
in a state that it's been in for about two
hundred and fifty years, and now we're seeing it in
pull this way. I just want people to have a
little hope.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
That is beautiful. I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Thanks, and you know, I'm sure everyone is going to
love this book. I have already bought a couple of
copies for friends of mine that are dog people.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
You got to read this book. And you know they
always ask you one question.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
I'm like, I'm not telling you anything, but it's not
what you think if that's the one question. And I
don't even want to say what the one question is
because most pedlars know what that one question is.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
They do. And I have a little disclaimer in the front.
This book has a happy ending.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Yeah it does. It does.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It has So if people want to learn more about
your books, or your coaching business, or your social media
or your podcast or the other.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Million things that you do. Have you ever thought about
a bookstore.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Helen, I'm going to run a book imprint one day.
You heard it here. First, There'll be no store. I'm
just going to run the entire publishing company.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I love that. Yeah, So what's the best way to
connect with you?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
My website's probably the best place to find all the things.
So it's Camille Pagan dot com.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Okay, Camille, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm so excited about your coming success for dog Person,
and I wish you the best on all of this,
and thank.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
You, oh my gosh, for all of the encouragement and
the help.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
It's funny we met here on the podcast. I sorrowed
you on social media. I started to see the things
you were doing and I realized, I'm like, I need
that kind of help, and I'm so glad that I
had the courage to help you.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You are a delight. I cannot wait to read your book.
That's all I'm going to say. Thank you so much,
Oh my pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Another show in the books. Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast, a place to check
out books.
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