July 14, 2026 • 27 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everything else in the world turned gray, dead and lifeless, silent.
The city's evening noise disappeared, but the townhouse its brightness remained.
Its color so rich and inviting that it somehow held sound,
a soft, steady hum, a woman's whispering voice. The words
were indecipherable, but also gentle, firm sound that lifted the
(00:24):
fatigue from Evelyn's shoulders. Something about the voice promised safety,
which she needed so very much.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast. Sorry, here's your host.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And podcast librarian award winning poet, future bestselling author and
host of one of the most listened to radio shows
in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hello, book lovers, and welcome to another episode of the
Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Today.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My guest is Clarence A. Haines, author of The Broken
Hearts Agency. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you for having me back. In such a pleasure
to be here once again.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm so glad to have you back, and I'm so
glad to talk about this book, The Broken Hearts Agency.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So tell us first what it's about.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The Broken Hearts Agency is an urban fantasy mystery novel
set in Washington, d C. It follows a psychic private
investigator who can sense when people are reeling from heartache,
who are experiencing trouble in their lives in some way.
The book starts out with the story of Evelyn, this
(01:31):
overworked account manager who's having a really, really hard time
both with her job and love life, and she's called
upon to visit this townhouse where she meets Linda Vianueva,
the psychic private investigator that I spoke of, and Linda
invites Evelyn to enter into ritual, and Evelyn begins a
(01:52):
journey of discovering who she really is, remembering who she
really is, and getting more in touch with the core
elements of what makes her happy. As this is happening,
people are showing up on the streets of DC with
glowing red eyes, burning skin, and memory loss. And the
(02:13):
first person we meet who has succumbed to this strange
affliction is Jeremiah, an associate pastor of this big black
historical church, and he's in the closet, and so we
get to know a bit about his story as Linda
also takes on this big supernatural case that's facing the city.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
This is beautifully connected as a follow up to the
Ghost of Gwendolen Montgomery.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What led you to this story and this place.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I'm a native New Yorker. I grew up in New York,
have lived here for most of my life, and during
that time. During my years here, DC has always been
my home away from home. DC is a smaller city,
commer cleaner, lots of black folks, lots of history, lots
of things that I thought would be interesting to put
(03:06):
on the page. You know, my previous novel was an
homage to my Panamanian Afo Latino roots and an homage
to New York City from a certain time, and this
one I was like, Okay, now, why not honor Washington,
d C. And particularly honor the African American community there.
(03:26):
My previous novel was more for Latino Caribbean. This one
is more African American, I would say, so.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I did well for me because I spent my summers
as a kid going to d C. We have a
lot of family there. I did notice that you mentioned
those places that were special to me and not necessarily
about the DC that we see so much about in
the news, and it gave the book a more intimate feel.
(03:53):
I think maybe because it had romance in this one.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Lots of romance, good amount of spy.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
What was the difference for you as a writer with
this book and why did you include the element of
romance in this story.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I'm so heartened to hear that you you felt
a connection to the DC that's presented on the page,
just because that was very intentional on my part that
I wanted to get away from the DC that's presented
in news headlines, and I wanted to to present these
these parts of of the district that people may not
(04:28):
be aware of that are such a fundamental part of
its history and it's it's culture and sort of it's
it's electric fabric. So I I really just wanted to
get that in there as as much as I I could.
And I've been hearing from different people who are who
are from the district are like, wow, you you did
it And I did my research people you should know, Helen. Yes,
(04:52):
During the copy editing stage of the book, I literally
had the manuscript on my laptop, both my laptop and iPad,
and I was going around fact checking everything that I
wrote to make sure that I got it correct. So
I try to put it in as much work as
I could and then in terms of the romantic stuff,
(05:13):
you know, as I was writing the book, I realized
that I'm always concerned with how we handle emotional intimacy,
physical intimacy, how that's impacted by memory, how that's impacted
by the challenges that we face in the day to day.
And it just sort of organically happened. As I was
(05:38):
writing the book, I realized that the romantic elements for
several characters would be really important to convey to place
on the page. And it's also connected in a way
that I can't say to the villain of the story,
the expression of there that's an important element because it's
(06:04):
something that I'll just say, the shadowy force that is
presented in the story is very concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
With you know.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Again, in this book, you gave us deeply lovable characters
that bring us in. And I'm curious who is your
favorite to write, but also who is your favorite to read,
because it's not always the same.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I enjoy writing all of my characters. They bring up
different emotions in many ways, all characters that I write,
there's something in myself that's part of them. A lot
of people who know me. There's a character named Fonsie,
who's in both this book and my previous novel, The
Ghusigwena Montgomery. Everyone loves Fonzie, and a lot of people
(06:45):
who know me, they're like, oh, a lot of that's you,
is like, they know my history, they know some of
my life challenges, and they're like, and how I operate.
They're like, oh, you and Fonzie Andre like, yes, there's
a lot of me in this. But I would say
for this book, actually my favorite character to write was
Evelyn Kendrix, the overworked accountant manager that I mentioned earlier
(07:11):
in our conversation. She undergoes this journey, this transformation via
Linda's mystical abilities, where she has to reconnect with memories
that she's suppressed, that she's forgotten. They've come to the fore,
they're in her psyche now front and center, they're in
her body, and she just has to sit with that.
(07:32):
And I found it really compelling as a writer to
be with a character who's undergoing a major transformation and
in many ways just has to be still. And I
found that to have a lot of personal residents. I
found there were a lot of lessons to be learned
(07:54):
from that experience that I can incorporate into my own
life that I suspect a lot of readers might connect
with as well. So it was it was really interesting
at one point because she's so still during this book,
even while DC is facing this big supernatural threat. At
(08:15):
one point I was like, do I need to make
her more of a person of action? Should she try
to escape the district or should she do this?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So do that?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And I was like, no, I think a lot of
her time would really just be trying to figure out
what's happening and who she is and being still, and
I couldn't get away from it. And she reconnects with
a old Boo Trevor, and so that that was lovely
to write. But yeah, the stillness, I just found it fascinating.
(08:43):
And at the end of the day, I was like,
I'm not going to move away from this. I think
is this is where she is and that there is
richness here and sit with that.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think that's something we could all identify with and use.
Is like how still can be a benefit to us?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Now? I have to tell you, though I loved Linda
from the Door.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
She was such a three D character and I love
the idea of empathy as her supernatural gift. It's actually
something my sister and I had talked about because sometimes
having that ability to sit in someone else's skin can
be overwhelming, and.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I never thought of it as like a superpower.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
But during your creative process, where did this character and
her gift come from?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I suspected you would connect with Linda. Yeah. Yeah, she
is just wonderful in terms of the level of competence,
how much she gets done. The thing that I love
about Linda Vianhoeva as a character is that she is competent,
no nonsense, sometimes quite stoic, and also very caring. She
(09:54):
really really helps people out and.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You kind of present the hard and the sawt yes
that in a beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Thank you so much. That is essentially who she is.
And I also wanted to showcase that in a female
queer character because I feel like a lot of times
people think those things can't exist all in the same body,
all in the same consciousness, particularly for female characters, right,
(10:25):
And I was like, no, absolutely, she can handle her
business and so clearly be someone who cares deeply about
others and their wellbeing and doing and doing right by others.
In her harder part, she's a caring person. And then
why I focus on empathy and having a character who
can sit with what other people are feeling, what they've experienced.
(10:49):
I've always just been fascinated by what I call powers
connected to the psyche the soul. So that's always, yeah,
fascinated me. And also I'm just into that much more
than relying on explosive action or violence or shocking type
(11:10):
narratives to make a point.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I know from reading and actually being around you that
one of your favorite things is desire. That is what
is most often central to your writing.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Desire.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
What is it about desire that draws you in creatively?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's connected to what I just said around powers of
the mind and soul. I think how we express emotional intimacy,
physical intimacy is so important, is something that drives us,
yet has been impacted in really unfortunate ways by our
(11:50):
modern world. I often feel like operating from a really
honest place about what we want and what we need
has been policed, course taken over, I would say, by
a number of factors. Yeah, I just think there are
(12:11):
a lot of elements about society that just don't allow
us to freely express how we feel, what we want
to feel safe doing so, and I just like to
explore as much as I can around that on the page,
and also going into the ways in which we don't
(12:34):
feel safe, the ways in which unfortunate incidents challenges that
we face in life can adversely impact how we handle intimacy,
how we do intimacy, how we connect with ourselves, how
we see ourselves, and therefore how we connect with others,
what we feel safe inhabiting, doing, talking about feeling, and
(13:00):
a major part of my take on Desire is that
almost all of us need to be cared for, need
to be hell, need to feel vulnerable, need to care
for others, which is empathy. Yeah, empathy.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
You know. It's interesting too, though it's also connected to
another thing I saw in this book, which is identity.
Identity and desire tell me about the connection between those
in this story.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I think that comes to the four, particularly with
the associated pastor Jeremiah, who I'd mentioned before as a
character one of the characters who has succumbed to the
strange affliction where he's lost his memory and his eyes
are going red and his skin is burning, and so
because he's in the closet as a result of being
(13:52):
a pastor with this traditional church and has thus suppressed
his identity as a gay man for most of his life.
Bad identity now has been coming to the fore. Before
he succumbed to the affliction, he was already beginning to
realize that he needed to express who he is as
a gay man in terms of romantic partnerships going out art.
(14:18):
Visual art is a major is.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Your last book, and in this.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Book, yes, the visual the visual art. I'm I'm obsessed.
A part of that is because I have the older
I'm getting, the more I'm realizing how important art of
all type, visual art of all types of so important.
But it's really hitting me. And then just some of
the people who I work with, particularly one of my
(14:43):
good friend the colleagues, Katieyamasaki, who is this mirrorlest illustrator,
children's book author, who are work as phenomenal, and just
as we've been working on this project together that one day,
hopefully we will get out there, it really has impacted
just how how much visual art is. Please you know
(15:03):
the importance of visual art in our lives, and so
for Jeremiah, visual art has become a become a portion
of his identity. Of expressing the sensual elements of who
he is that he can't so readily express on the pulpit.
And so all of these elements of his identity are
coming to the fore right when this I'll just say
(15:26):
shadowy force descends upon him and said, shadowy Force is
very interested in these portions of his identity that have
become so important to Jeremiah.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know it's interesting too, I think about the range
of your storytelling.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
You don't sugarcoat.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
You scare us, you make us swoon, you make us think,
and you make us laugh. That's not easy to do
when you're in the writing process. Is this a conscious
intention or just how it arrives.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
On the page.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Thank you for that it arrives on the page. You know,
I just have to write what the story and the
characters tell me to write. At the same time, I
know I am informed by what has come before. I've
worked for many years as a developmental editor with in
(16:24):
a variety of genres, and so I'm aware of what's
come before. I don't want to replicate repeat what's come before.
I want to build on be inspired by play with remix.
That's it's the remix. So that's my that's my approach,
(16:46):
and so hence what happens then is ah for for
both Ghost of Gwendola Montgomery and Brokenheart's Agency. And I
think to some extent that the next book I'm working
on genre there is the next book genre blends that
That's what I'm becoming known for. But I got to say,
(17:06):
it happens. It happens very organically. I'm not going out
of my way to do that, but I'm heartened that
that it's being recognized and it seems appreciated. I'm happy
to say. The Seattle Times shows the book as a
mystery pick of the Summer, and so I was like, right,
(17:29):
and the the write up said, oh, this is a
book that works well in both the urban fantasy and
mystery genres, and yeah, it was just it was It
was just so heartening to read. It was like, Okay,
I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do so.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
In this genre blending.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I mean, you've got urban fantasy, you've got romance, you've got.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
A little bit horror. There.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Just the idea that a villain is feasting on our
design to.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Me a true harm.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Where did this idea come from? The idea of you know,
someone feasting on our desires, like feeding off of that
to actually grow more evil. The things that bring us
joy becomes the things that is used to haunt us.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know. I've I've sat with like where did this come?
Because I was like, once I was done, I was like,
this is this is unusual and so and I was
like where what, how did where did this come from?
Where this idea come from? And so I would just say,
I think the core idea was that I think we
take the things that give us joy. And when I
(18:45):
say write, when I say desire, when I'm I'm really
just talking overall about the things that that make us happy,
give us pleasure, give us a joy, and I think
we take that for granted.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So when someone's taking it.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
From and when some one is so with pastor Jeremiah,
it is when this entity is beginning to take this
thing from him and he's like no, and he's literally
trying to find the places in his soul where he
can try to hold on to the things that that
that He's like, I need this, this, this was such
(19:23):
so such a bomb to my spirit. I cannot let
this go, and this thing is coming for it, and
I think we take that for granted. I feel like
if we on day to day remember the things that
fill us up, that make our soul sing, that make
us happy, that give us a pepin a step, even
(19:45):
with the world's challenges, even with life challenges, and being like, no,
but it's these other things, these things can be enjoyed
that are more important. Yeah, I just suspect we would
start to see a shift in a lot of things,
but we forget and I don't blame folks because I
think the world is a hard place For me.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
It was just like a revelation, like, Wow, this is
this is a powerful revelation, and like one of those
things for me is music that I love and I
would hate this someone would like try to feast on
stealing away my love for music. And in it, you
gave a brief not to Peebo Bryson, and growing up
Pebo and me we were inseparable.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And it's funny because it's one of those if you know,
you know references very quick.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But if you know, you know, but I knew you would.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
What's crazy is that he recently passed I know, and
was in the spirit world when your book came out.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I know, did that cross your mind when you heard
about his past?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So it's interesting it it hasn't. I haven't connected to
Dots until just now, until what you've just mentioned. But
folks should know I was listening to Peebo for many
weeks or months before he passed. I've been ever since
(21:08):
Beyonce's renaissance. I've reimmersed myself in dance and soul, R
and B music over the past decades, and particularly now,
being of a certain vintage, I am appreciating, uh what
I call like my black adult contemporary music, and so
(21:28):
he's just been one of the greats his If ever
you're in my arms again, I can just start to
weep listening to that. And one of the fire that well,
I would say, feel the fire is could be like, uh,
Evelyn and Tremor's a song in Broken Hearts Agency. And
(21:49):
one of the things I read in his orbit, I
believe it was The New York Times. They quoted him
as saying it may not be the New York Times,
but it was. One of the big obits is that
he purposely was like he wanted to showcase for dudes
that it's okay to be vulnerable. Can operate from the
heart and be seen as soft like He's like that,
(22:10):
that's okay. He's like I want my music to convey
that and to represent that, and you could just hear
it like and so I just I just appreciate him immntally.
And the reference in Broken Hearts Agency it's it's it's
a very quick reference and it's it's meant for laughs.
(22:33):
So I don't know if people will realize how much
I appreciate who he was.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I think because it stuck with me because the same
you know, he was one of my favorite artists. He's
passed on. You know, this has supernatural pieces to it,
and I'm like, I kind of felt like, even though
that was just a really quick passing thing, his presence
has shown up in this book in that way.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And I don't know, it's it's it was.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
One of the things about this book that I like, again,
you know, just little nuances that were personal to me specifically.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's you know, like DC hopefully readers will sense that
there's a lot of texture even though I'm presenting information
and then moving on to the next thing, because that's
what the story calls.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I don't think it needs a lot when you're doing
things like that. This is just me as a reader.
I think it's more like the ability to take someone
on a journey and drop them in a place and
let them feel it, and then keep taking them on
that journey. If you've never been to Washington, d C.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Now you have.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And that's the thing I like about books is they
enable me to travel.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I love to travel.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I mean, I'd rather get on the plane and go there,
or in this case from New York on the train.
But when I get to read about a place and
you take me there, it's still a source.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Of travel for me, and I love that feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So you did already kind of leak it out that
there is a next book.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
What's happening with that? Is it part of the same series.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's part of it's part of the same. So it's
part of the same I'm calling this series are Mystical World,
and we're not technically even marketing it as a series.
We're saying each book is a standalone. But once you
read it, you read them, you can sense that, oh
oh wait, there's another there's a character from this previous
(24:32):
book that's appearing here, or there's elements of the previous
book that are being reference, but you don't have to
necessarily read read it in the traditional way of a series,
particularly because each book features different primary characters. It's almost
more like an anthology series from TV. The next book
is about a group of women who receive mystical powers
(24:59):
in the Uni, United States, and they're all black women,
and so and so. As you can imagine, there is,
there is I don't know if we should say controversy, vitriol,
but eventually they become hunted and one of the primary goddesses,
(25:23):
as we will call them, her name is Crystal, and
she's a psychotherapist and she can manipulate and explore dreams.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And yeah, I like this already.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I like this already, and I will be I will
be once again taking on intimacy, Desire, Interior and the
interior were Interior, I.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Mean, because I think that was one of the things too,
that that really pulled me into this book is I
got to be with these characters sometimes inside of these characters,
and I mean I'm a big fan of of interior
or so.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That was that was a lot of fun for me.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
So if people want to connect with you where they
find you your books, all of that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
The Broken Hearts Agency is available wherever books are sold
in paperback, ebook format and audio book, and then people
can find me Clarence A. Haynes on Instagram. I'm particularly
active on Instagram, so reach out follow me. There are
lots of tidbits about the book, upcoming appearances, about the
(26:32):
book tour. So yeah, thank you so much for having me, Helen.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I adore thank you for this book.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But yes, I I'm so glad to have you back.
I'm so happy for this book and all that you're doing,
and you know, of course next time you got to
come back again.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Another show in the books Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Place to check out books
Everything else in the world turned gray, dead and lifeless, silent.
The city's evening noise disappeared, but the townhouse its brightness remained.
Its color so rich and inviting that it somehow held sound,
a soft, steady hum, a woman's whispering voice. The words
were indecipherable, but also gentle, firm sound that lifted the
(00:24):
fatigue from Evelyn's shoulders. Something about the voice promised safety,
which she needed so very much.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast. Sorry, here's your host.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And podcast librarian award winning poet, future bestselling author and
host of one of the most listened to radio shows
in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hello, book lovers, and welcome to another episode of the
Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Today.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My guest is Clarence A. Haines, author of The Broken
Hearts Agency. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you for having me back. In such a pleasure
to be here once again.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm so glad to have you back, and I'm so
glad to talk about this book, The Broken Hearts Agency.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So tell us first what it's about.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The Broken Hearts Agency is an urban fantasy mystery novel
set in Washington, d C. It follows a psychic private
investigator who can sense when people are reeling from heartache,
who are experiencing trouble in their lives in some way.
The book starts out with the story of Evelyn, this
(01:31):
overworked account manager who's having a really, really hard time
both with her job and love life, and she's called
upon to visit this townhouse where she meets Linda Vianueva,
the psychic private investigator that I spoke of, and Linda
invites Evelyn to enter into ritual, and Evelyn begins a
(01:52):
journey of discovering who she really is, remembering who she
really is, and getting more in touch with the core
elements of what makes her happy. As this is happening,
people are showing up on the streets of DC with
glowing red eyes, burning skin, and memory loss. And the
(02:13):
first person we meet who has succumbed to this strange
affliction is Jeremiah, an associate pastor of this big black
historical church, and he's in the closet, and so we
get to know a bit about his story as Linda
also takes on this big supernatural case that's facing the city.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
This is beautifully connected as a follow up to the
Ghost of Gwendolen Montgomery.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What led you to this story and this place.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I'm a native New Yorker. I grew up in New York,
have lived here for most of my life, and during
that time. During my years here, DC has always been
my home away from home. DC is a smaller city,
commer cleaner, lots of black folks, lots of history, lots
of things that I thought would be interesting to put
(03:06):
on the page. You know, my previous novel was an
homage to my Panamanian Afo Latino roots and an homage
to New York City from a certain time, and this
one I was like, Okay, now, why not honor Washington,
d C. And particularly honor the African American community there.
(03:26):
My previous novel was more for Latino Caribbean. This one
is more African American, I would say, so.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I did well for me because I spent my summers
as a kid going to d C. We have a
lot of family there. I did notice that you mentioned
those places that were special to me and not necessarily
about the DC that we see so much about in
the news, and it gave the book a more intimate feel.
(03:53):
I think maybe because it had romance in this one.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Lots of romance, good amount of spy.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
What was the difference for you as a writer with
this book and why did you include the element of
romance in this story.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I'm so heartened to hear that you you felt
a connection to the DC that's presented on the page,
just because that was very intentional on my part that
I wanted to get away from the DC that's presented
in news headlines, and I wanted to to present these
these parts of of the district that people may not
(04:28):
be aware of that are such a fundamental part of
its history and it's it's culture and sort of it's
it's electric fabric. So I I really just wanted to
get that in there as as much as I I could.
And I've been hearing from different people who are who
are from the district are like, wow, you you did
it And I did my research people you should know, Helen. Yes,
(04:52):
During the copy editing stage of the book, I literally
had the manuscript on my laptop, both my laptop and iPad,
and I was going around fact checking everything that I
wrote to make sure that I got it correct. So
I try to put it in as much work as
I could and then in terms of the romantic stuff,
(05:13):
you know, as I was writing the book, I realized
that I'm always concerned with how we handle emotional intimacy,
physical intimacy, how that's impacted by memory, how that's impacted
by the challenges that we face in the day to day.
And it just sort of organically happened. As I was
(05:38):
writing the book, I realized that the romantic elements for
several characters would be really important to convey to place
on the page. And it's also connected in a way
that I can't say to the villain of the story,
the expression of there that's an important element because it's
(06:04):
something that I'll just say, the shadowy force that is
presented in the story is very concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
With you know.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Again, in this book, you gave us deeply lovable characters
that bring us in. And I'm curious who is your
favorite to write, but also who is your favorite to read,
because it's not always the same.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I enjoy writing all of my characters. They bring up
different emotions in many ways, all characters that I write,
there's something in myself that's part of them. A lot
of people who know me. There's a character named Fonsie,
who's in both this book and my previous novel, The
Ghusigwena Montgomery. Everyone loves Fonzie, and a lot of people
(06:45):
who know me, they're like, oh, a lot of that's you,
is like, they know my history, they know some of
my life challenges, and they're like, and how I operate.
They're like, oh, you and Fonzie Andre like, yes, there's
a lot of me in this. But I would say
for this book, actually my favorite character to write was
Evelyn Kendrix, the overworked accountant manager that I mentioned earlier
(07:11):
in our conversation. She undergoes this journey, this transformation via
Linda's mystical abilities, where she has to reconnect with memories
that she's suppressed, that she's forgotten. They've come to the fore,
they're in her psyche now front and center, they're in
her body, and she just has to sit with that.
(07:32):
And I found it really compelling as a writer to
be with a character who's undergoing a major transformation and
in many ways just has to be still. And I
found that to have a lot of personal residents. I
found there were a lot of lessons to be learned
(07:54):
from that experience that I can incorporate into my own
life that I suspect a lot of readers might connect
with as well. So it was it was really interesting
at one point because she's so still during this book,
even while DC is facing this big supernatural threat. At
(08:15):
one point I was like, do I need to make
her more of a person of action? Should she try
to escape the district or should she do this?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So do that?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And I was like, no, I think a lot of
her time would really just be trying to figure out
what's happening and who she is and being still, and
I couldn't get away from it. And she reconnects with
a old Boo Trevor, and so that that was lovely
to write. But yeah, the stillness, I just found it fascinating.
(08:43):
And at the end of the day, I was like,
I'm not going to move away from this. I think
is this is where she is and that there is
richness here and sit with that.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think that's something we could all identify with and use.
Is like how still can be a benefit to us?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Now? I have to tell you, though I loved Linda
from the Door.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
She was such a three D character and I love
the idea of empathy as her supernatural gift. It's actually
something my sister and I had talked about because sometimes
having that ability to sit in someone else's skin can
be overwhelming, and.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I never thought of it as like a superpower.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
But during your creative process, where did this character and
her gift come from?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I suspected you would connect with Linda. Yeah. Yeah, she
is just wonderful in terms of the level of competence,
how much she gets done. The thing that I love
about Linda Vianhoeva as a character is that she is competent,
no nonsense, sometimes quite stoic, and also very caring. She
(09:54):
really really helps people out and.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You kind of present the hard and the sawt yes
that in a beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Thank you so much. That is essentially who she is.
And I also wanted to showcase that in a female
queer character because I feel like a lot of times
people think those things can't exist all in the same body,
all in the same consciousness, particularly for female characters, right,
(10:25):
And I was like, no, absolutely, she can handle her
business and so clearly be someone who cares deeply about
others and their wellbeing and doing and doing right by others.
In her harder part, she's a caring person. And then
why I focus on empathy and having a character who
can sit with what other people are feeling, what they've experienced.
(10:49):
I've always just been fascinated by what I call powers
connected to the psyche the soul. So that's always, yeah,
fascinated me. And also I'm just into that much more
than relying on explosive action or violence or shocking type
(11:10):
narratives to make a point.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I know from reading and actually being around you that
one of your favorite things is desire. That is what
is most often central to your writing.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Desire.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
What is it about desire that draws you in creatively?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's connected to what I just said around powers of
the mind and soul. I think how we express emotional intimacy,
physical intimacy is so important, is something that drives us,
yet has been impacted in really unfortunate ways by our
(11:50):
modern world. I often feel like operating from a really
honest place about what we want and what we need
has been policed, course taken over, I would say, by
a number of factors. Yeah, I just think there are
(12:11):
a lot of elements about society that just don't allow
us to freely express how we feel, what we want
to feel safe doing so, and I just like to
explore as much as I can around that on the page,
and also going into the ways in which we don't
(12:34):
feel safe, the ways in which unfortunate incidents challenges that
we face in life can adversely impact how we handle intimacy,
how we do intimacy, how we connect with ourselves, how
we see ourselves, and therefore how we connect with others,
what we feel safe inhabiting, doing, talking about feeling, and
(13:00):
a major part of my take on Desire is that
almost all of us need to be cared for, need
to be hell, need to feel vulnerable, need to care
for others, which is empathy. Yeah, empathy.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
You know. It's interesting too, though it's also connected to
another thing I saw in this book, which is identity.
Identity and desire tell me about the connection between those
in this story.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I think that comes to the four, particularly with
the associated pastor Jeremiah, who I'd mentioned before as a
character one of the characters who has succumbed to the
strange affliction where he's lost his memory and his eyes
are going red and his skin is burning, and so
because he's in the closet as a result of being
(13:52):
a pastor with this traditional church and has thus suppressed
his identity as a gay man for most of his life.
Bad identity now has been coming to the fore. Before
he succumbed to the affliction, he was already beginning to
realize that he needed to express who he is as
a gay man in terms of romantic partnerships going out art.
(14:18):
Visual art is a major is.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Your last book, and in this.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Book, yes, the visual the visual art. I'm I'm obsessed.
A part of that is because I have the older
I'm getting, the more I'm realizing how important art of
all type, visual art of all types of so important.
But it's really hitting me. And then just some of
the people who I work with, particularly one of my
(14:43):
good friend the colleagues, Katieyamasaki, who is this mirrorlest illustrator,
children's book author, who are work as phenomenal, and just
as we've been working on this project together that one day,
hopefully we will get out there, it really has impacted
just how how much visual art is. Please you know
(15:03):
the importance of visual art in our lives, and so
for Jeremiah, visual art has become a become a portion
of his identity. Of expressing the sensual elements of who
he is that he can't so readily express on the pulpit.
And so all of these elements of his identity are
coming to the fore right when this I'll just say
(15:26):
shadowy force descends upon him and said, shadowy Force is
very interested in these portions of his identity that have
become so important to Jeremiah.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know it's interesting too, I think about the range
of your storytelling.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
You don't sugarcoat.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
You scare us, you make us swoon, you make us think,
and you make us laugh. That's not easy to do
when you're in the writing process. Is this a conscious
intention or just how it arrives.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
On the page.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Thank you for that it arrives on the page. You know,
I just have to write what the story and the
characters tell me to write. At the same time, I
know I am informed by what has come before. I've
worked for many years as a developmental editor with in
(16:24):
a variety of genres, and so I'm aware of what's
come before. I don't want to replicate repeat what's come before.
I want to build on be inspired by play with remix.
That's it's the remix. So that's my that's my approach,
(16:46):
and so hence what happens then is ah for for
both Ghost of Gwendola Montgomery and Brokenheart's Agency. And I
think to some extent that the next book I'm working
on genre there is the next book genre blends that
That's what I'm becoming known for. But I got to say,
(17:06):
it happens. It happens very organically. I'm not going out
of my way to do that, but I'm heartened that
that it's being recognized and it seems appreciated. I'm happy
to say. The Seattle Times shows the book as a
mystery pick of the Summer, and so I was like, right,
(17:29):
and the the write up said, oh, this is a
book that works well in both the urban fantasy and
mystery genres, and yeah, it was just it was It
was just so heartening to read. It was like, Okay,
I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do so.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
In this genre blending.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I mean, you've got urban fantasy, you've got romance, you've got.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
A little bit horror. There.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Just the idea that a villain is feasting on our
design to.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Me a true harm.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Where did this idea come from? The idea of you know,
someone feasting on our desires, like feeding off of that
to actually grow more evil. The things that bring us
joy becomes the things that is used to haunt us.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know. I've I've sat with like where did this come?
Because I was like, once I was done, I was like,
this is this is unusual and so and I was
like where what, how did where did this come from?
Where this idea come from? And so I would just say,
I think the core idea was that I think we
take the things that give us joy. And when I
(18:45):
say write, when I say desire, when I'm I'm really
just talking overall about the things that that make us happy,
give us pleasure, give us a joy, and I think
we take that for granted.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So when someone's taking it.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
From and when some one is so with pastor Jeremiah,
it is when this entity is beginning to take this
thing from him and he's like no, and he's literally
trying to find the places in his soul where he
can try to hold on to the things that that
that He's like, I need this, this, this was such
(19:23):
so such a bomb to my spirit. I cannot let
this go, and this thing is coming for it, and
I think we take that for granted. I feel like
if we on day to day remember the things that
fill us up, that make our soul sing, that make
us happy, that give us a pepin a step, even
(19:45):
with the world's challenges, even with life challenges, and being like, no,
but it's these other things, these things can be enjoyed
that are more important. Yeah, I just suspect we would
start to see a shift in a lot of things,
but we forget and I don't blame folks because I
think the world is a hard place For me.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
It was just like a revelation, like, Wow, this is
this is a powerful revelation, and like one of those
things for me is music that I love and I
would hate this someone would like try to feast on
stealing away my love for music. And in it, you
gave a brief not to Peebo Bryson, and growing up
Pebo and me we were inseparable.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And it's funny because it's one of those if you know,
you know references very quick.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But if you know, you know, but I knew you would.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
What's crazy is that he recently passed I know, and
was in the spirit world when your book came out.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I know, did that cross your mind when you heard
about his past?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So it's interesting it it hasn't. I haven't connected to
Dots until just now, until what you've just mentioned. But
folks should know I was listening to Peebo for many
weeks or months before he passed. I've been ever since
(21:08):
Beyonce's renaissance. I've reimmersed myself in dance and soul, R
and B music over the past decades, and particularly now,
being of a certain vintage, I am appreciating, uh what
I call like my black adult contemporary music, and so
(21:28):
he's just been one of the greats his If ever
you're in my arms again, I can just start to
weep listening to that. And one of the fire that well,
I would say, feel the fire is could be like, uh,
Evelyn and Tremor's a song in Broken Hearts Agency. And
(21:49):
one of the things I read in his orbit, I
believe it was The New York Times. They quoted him
as saying it may not be the New York Times,
but it was. One of the big obits is that
he purposely was like he wanted to showcase for dudes
that it's okay to be vulnerable. Can operate from the
heart and be seen as soft like He's like that,
(22:10):
that's okay. He's like I want my music to convey
that and to represent that, and you could just hear
it like and so I just I just appreciate him immntally.
And the reference in Broken Hearts Agency it's it's it's
a very quick reference and it's it's meant for laughs.
(22:33):
So I don't know if people will realize how much
I appreciate who he was.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I think because it stuck with me because the same
you know, he was one of my favorite artists. He's
passed on. You know, this has supernatural pieces to it,
and I'm like, I kind of felt like, even though
that was just a really quick passing thing, his presence
has shown up in this book in that way.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And I don't know, it's it's it was.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
One of the things about this book that I like, again,
you know, just little nuances that were personal to me specifically.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's you know, like DC hopefully readers will sense that
there's a lot of texture even though I'm presenting information
and then moving on to the next thing, because that's
what the story calls.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I don't think it needs a lot when you're doing
things like that. This is just me as a reader.
I think it's more like the ability to take someone
on a journey and drop them in a place and
let them feel it, and then keep taking them on
that journey. If you've never been to Washington, d C.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Now you have.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And that's the thing I like about books is they
enable me to travel.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I love to travel.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I mean, I'd rather get on the plane and go there,
or in this case from New York on the train.
But when I get to read about a place and
you take me there, it's still a source.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Of travel for me, and I love that feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So you did already kind of leak it out that
there is a next book.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
What's happening with that? Is it part of the same series.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's part of it's part of the same. So it's
part of the same I'm calling this series are Mystical World,
and we're not technically even marketing it as a series.
We're saying each book is a standalone. But once you
read it, you read them, you can sense that, oh
oh wait, there's another there's a character from this previous
(24:32):
book that's appearing here, or there's elements of the previous
book that are being reference, but you don't have to
necessarily read read it in the traditional way of a series,
particularly because each book features different primary characters. It's almost
more like an anthology series from TV. The next book
is about a group of women who receive mystical powers
(24:59):
in the Uni, United States, and they're all black women,
and so and so. As you can imagine, there is,
there is I don't know if we should say controversy, vitriol,
but eventually they become hunted and one of the primary goddesses,
(25:23):
as we will call them, her name is Crystal, and
she's a psychotherapist and she can manipulate and explore dreams.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And yeah, I like this already.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I like this already, and I will be I will
be once again taking on intimacy, Desire, Interior and the
interior were Interior, I.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Mean, because I think that was one of the things too,
that that really pulled me into this book is I
got to be with these characters sometimes inside of these characters,
and I mean I'm a big fan of of interior
or so.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That was that was a lot of fun for me.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
So if people want to connect with you where they
find you your books, all of that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
The Broken Hearts Agency is available wherever books are sold
in paperback, ebook format and audio book, and then people
can find me Clarence A. Haynes on Instagram. I'm particularly
active on Instagram, so reach out follow me. There are
lots of tidbits about the book, upcoming appearances, about the
(26:32):
book tour. So yeah, thank you so much for having me, Helen.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I adore thank you for this book.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But yes, I I'm so glad to have you back.
I'm so happy for this book and all that you're doing,
and you know, of course next time you got to
come back again.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Another show in the books Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Place to check out books
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