Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Seven twenty one.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now ask promise, let's see if we can figure out
what the Social Security Fairness Act is and what it
will do to people. They're trying to get this thing
done before President Trump takes office for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
EJ.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Antoni with a Heritage Foundation joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
EJ.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Belated Merry Christmas to you and early happy New Year.
How are you this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Oh? Likewise same to you. I am hanging in hope
you had a blessed Christmas with you and yours.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Indeed, thank you for that. I appreciate it. So what
can you tell us about the Social Security Fairness Act?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Oh? My goodness, what a case of deceptive marketing. How
is this fair? We're talking about giving additional benefits to
people who already receive favorable treatment when it comes to
tax status, when it comes to social security, when it
comes to public pensions, which have much much greater benefits
than those in the private sector. In other words, this
(00:51):
is a classic case of giving to the haves and
taking from the have not. The average American is going
to suffer if this thing goes through.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And it looks like this is a bipartisan effort to
make this happen. This bill passed the House last month,
according to the story I'm reading right now, three twenty
seven to seventy five. So Republicans and Democrats alike seem
to think this is a good idea.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, unfortunately, a lot of the people in Congress don't
even read the pieces of legislation that come before them,
so it's likely they have no idea what's in this.
It just sounds good and will probably buy them vote,
so they'll do it now and to hell with the
consequences later. Somebody else can deal with that. But the
other thing is, whenever we talk about things being bipartisan today,
it's really important to remember that while the Democrats do
(01:38):
tend to vote as a block, if we look at
how Republicans vote, that doesn't seem to be the case.
And the reason for that is because even though you
have an R behind your name, you can still be
a liberal. It doesn't mean you're a conservative today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, you're exactly right about that. Republican does not mean
what it used to, and in fact, a lot of
people wear the you the uniparty, if you will. But
specific to this, we're talking to Antoni the Heritage Foundation EJ.
Specific to this, the story says that the average American
couple would lose around twenty five thousand dollars in Social
Security benefits if this goes through.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
How does that happen?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well, a couple of ways. One is the fact that
Social Security is rapidly becoming insolvent because it was basically
set up as a Ponzi scheme, so it can't go
on forever. But the faster that we erode the program,
the sooner we're going to reach insolvency. We're eroding the
program by continuing to give more and more benefits, in
this case to people who already have a heightened level
(02:40):
of benefits, and so what you're effectively doing is decreasing
the amount of funds that are available for the rest
of the American people.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So what is the solution to solvency? Then, how do
they ensure that this does not eventually essentially go bankrupt?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, unfortunately, you're going to have to transition to a
system where people are paying in money and it is
kept in a private account for just them. You know,
that's how a lot of people think social Security works today.
That I work my whole life, I put in money,
it goes into my own account and when I retire,
I get those benefits. That's not true at all. Instead,
you work today and that money goes immediately to pay
(03:22):
today's retirees, today's beneficiaries. And so that's why I say
it was set up like a Ponzi scheme. That was
just like FTX or Bernie Madeoff, where today's investors are
their funds are being used to pay yesterday's investors. And
unless you are going to grow the number of investors
at an exponential rate, that system is eventually going to collapse. Well,
(03:43):
since we can't grow the workforce at an exponential rate,
especially today when our population is actually in a state
of decline, you're not going to be able to sustain
a Ponzi scheme like Social Security. Eventually you need to
sunset the program. Now, that doesn't mean you need to
touch benefit for people who are retired today. That's not true.
There's plenty of money available to pay for folks who
(04:05):
are already retired, But the people who are going to
retire ten, twenty, even thirty, or certainly forty years from now.
I'm sorry, but the program is not going to be
viable at that time.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So you said create private accounts for people and that
reminds me, of course, of President Bush back in the
early two thousands. He wanted to privatize Social Security. He
was roundly mocked and ridiculed for that, and it didn't
go anywhere. Is that something to look at.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Oh, certainly not the way he proposed it, Absolutely not.
I think that was very, very poorly executed. However, the
idea that social Security can go on forever is just
a mathematical fiction. It simply can't. Again, what you need
to do is have some kind of transition program where
unfortunately you'll need a generation of people who pay Social
(04:51):
Security taxes but never actually receive any of those benefits.
And that sounds harsh, but unfortunately that's the price to
pay for unwinding upon scheme that was foisted on the
American people by the Democrats in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm looking for the politician that can sell that. I
can't imagine. I cannot imagine anybody you know, running for
office and then in governing an office saying, by the way,
keep paying your Social Security taxes and you will get
nothing for this when you retire. I mean that generation,
you say. I understand your point, but I'm just wondering
how that gets done, because nobody is going to be
able to run on that. Nobody's going to be able
(05:27):
to actually, you know, pick that up and say I'll
own this. I'll own the fact that you're going to
have to pay for something you will not receive a
benefit for.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, that's exactly right, and that political difficulty that you
just articulated is exactly why it has not yet been done.
So unfortunately, that means it probably won't be accomplished until
we actually reach a crisis when so not only is
Social Security insolvent, but it is eating up so much
of the general tax fund that again, truly reacheek some
(06:00):
kind of financial crisis that forces Americans to face reality
that we need to make this difficult change. It has
to happen, sooner or later. It's just a question of
how much pain are you willing to endure before you
finally make that leap?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and which politicians are willing to take the hit
for doing it. That's that's the other thing. The Democrats
ran this entire campaign this entire year. You know, Trump
wants to end Social Security, and you know Bernie Marino
for Congress or for Senate and all of these other
Senate races saying each one of these Republicans wants to
end social Security and they want to end Medicare. And
(06:34):
the reality is, again I just read the numbers, three
hundred and seventy five people in the House voted for this.
So it's Republicans and Democrats voting, you know, making difficult
decisions obviously, and as you say, in this Social Security
Fairness Act, which is you know, inaptly named, just like
the Inflation Reduction Act, you know, it's not reality. So
the question is which politicians are going to be willing
to bite the bullet and tell the truth about this.
(06:55):
And I don't know who those people are.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
E J Antoni Heritage found at breaking it all down
for us. EJ. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
We'll talk to you again.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, thank you for having me
Seven twenty one.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now ask promise, let's see if we can figure out
what the Social Security Fairness Act is and what it
will do to people. They're trying to get this thing
done before President Trump takes office for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
EJ.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Antoni with a Heritage Foundation joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
EJ.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Belated Merry Christmas to you and early happy New Year.
How are you this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Oh? Likewise same to you. I am hanging in hope
you had a blessed Christmas with you and yours.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Indeed, thank you for that. I appreciate it. So what
can you tell us about the Social Security Fairness Act?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Oh? My goodness, what a case of deceptive marketing. How
is this fair? We're talking about giving additional benefits to
people who already receive favorable treatment when it comes to
tax status, when it comes to social security, when it
comes to public pensions, which have much much greater benefits
than those in the private sector. In other words, this
(00:51):
is a classic case of giving to the haves and
taking from the have not. The average American is going
to suffer if this thing goes through.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And it looks like this is a bipartisan effort to
make this happen. This bill passed the House last month,
according to the story I'm reading right now, three twenty
seven to seventy five. So Republicans and Democrats alike seem
to think this is a good idea.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, unfortunately, a lot of the people in Congress don't
even read the pieces of legislation that come before them,
so it's likely they have no idea what's in this.
It just sounds good and will probably buy them vote,
so they'll do it now and to hell with the
consequences later. Somebody else can deal with that. But the
other thing is, whenever we talk about things being bipartisan today,
it's really important to remember that while the Democrats do
(01:38):
tend to vote as a block, if we look at
how Republicans vote, that doesn't seem to be the case.
And the reason for that is because even though you
have an R behind your name, you can still be
a liberal. It doesn't mean you're a conservative today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, you're exactly right about that. Republican does not mean
what it used to, and in fact, a lot of
people wear the you the uniparty, if you will. But
specific to this, we're talking to Antoni the Heritage Foundation EJ.
Specific to this, the story says that the average American
couple would lose around twenty five thousand dollars in Social
Security benefits if this goes through.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
How does that happen?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well, a couple of ways. One is the fact that
Social Security is rapidly becoming insolvent because it was basically
set up as a Ponzi scheme, so it can't go
on forever. But the faster that we erode the program,
the sooner we're going to reach insolvency. We're eroding the
program by continuing to give more and more benefits, in
this case to people who already have a heightened level
(02:40):
of benefits, and so what you're effectively doing is decreasing
the amount of funds that are available for the rest
of the American people.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So what is the solution to solvency? Then, how do
they ensure that this does not eventually essentially go bankrupt?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, unfortunately, you're going to have to transition to a
system where people are paying in money and it is
kept in a private account for just them. You know,
that's how a lot of people think social Security works today.
That I work my whole life, I put in money,
it goes into my own account and when I retire,
I get those benefits. That's not true at all. Instead,
you work today and that money goes immediately to pay
(03:22):
today's retirees, today's beneficiaries. And so that's why I say
it was set up like a Ponzi scheme. That was
just like FTX or Bernie Madeoff, where today's investors are
their funds are being used to pay yesterday's investors. And
unless you are going to grow the number of investors
at an exponential rate, that system is eventually going to collapse. Well,
(03:43):
since we can't grow the workforce at an exponential rate,
especially today when our population is actually in a state
of decline, you're not going to be able to sustain
a Ponzi scheme like Social Security. Eventually you need to
sunset the program. Now, that doesn't mean you need to
touch benefit for people who are retired today. That's not true.
There's plenty of money available to pay for folks who
(04:05):
are already retired, But the people who are going to
retire ten, twenty, even thirty, or certainly forty years from now.
I'm sorry, but the program is not going to be
viable at that time.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So you said create private accounts for people and that
reminds me, of course, of President Bush back in the
early two thousands. He wanted to privatize Social Security. He
was roundly mocked and ridiculed for that, and it didn't
go anywhere. Is that something to look at.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Oh, certainly not the way he proposed it, Absolutely not.
I think that was very, very poorly executed. However, the
idea that social Security can go on forever is just
a mathematical fiction. It simply can't. Again, what you need
to do is have some kind of transition program where
unfortunately you'll need a generation of people who pay Social
(04:51):
Security taxes but never actually receive any of those benefits.
And that sounds harsh, but unfortunately that's the price to
pay for unwinding upon scheme that was foisted on the
American people by the Democrats in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm looking for the politician that can sell that. I
can't imagine. I cannot imagine anybody you know, running for
office and then in governing an office saying, by the way,
keep paying your Social Security taxes and you will get
nothing for this when you retire. I mean that generation,
you say. I understand your point, but I'm just wondering
how that gets done, because nobody is going to be
able to run on that. Nobody's going to be able
(05:27):
to actually, you know, pick that up and say I'll
own this. I'll own the fact that you're going to
have to pay for something you will not receive a
benefit for.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, that's exactly right, and that political difficulty that you
just articulated is exactly why it has not yet been done.
So unfortunately, that means it probably won't be accomplished until
we actually reach a crisis when so not only is
Social Security insolvent, but it is eating up so much
of the general tax fund that again, truly reacheek some
(06:00):
kind of financial crisis that forces Americans to face reality
that we need to make this difficult change. It has
to happen, sooner or later. It's just a question of
how much pain are you willing to endure before you
finally make that leap?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and which politicians are willing to take the hit
for doing it. That's that's the other thing. The Democrats
ran this entire campaign this entire year. You know, Trump
wants to end Social Security, and you know Bernie Marino
for Congress or for Senate and all of these other
Senate races saying each one of these Republicans wants to
end social Security and they want to end Medicare. And
(06:34):
the reality is, again I just read the numbers, three
hundred and seventy five people in the House voted for this.
So it's Republicans and Democrats voting, you know, making difficult
decisions obviously, and as you say, in this Social Security
Fairness Act, which is you know, inaptly named, just like
the Inflation Reduction Act, you know, it's not reality. So
the question is which politicians are going to be willing
to bite the bullet and tell the truth about this.
(06:55):
And I don't know who those people are.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
E J Antoni Heritage found at breaking it all down
for us. EJ. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
We'll talk to you again.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, thank you for having me
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