AM Show Hr 3 | Can Ibogaine Heal PTSD? A Conversation with Brian Hubbard

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's that time time, time, time, luck and load. So
Michael Verie Show is on the air. We know that

(00:25):
PTSD is bad, really bad.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Over twenty veterans per day take their own life. There
are lots of reasons for this. The VA has a
protocol of a bunch of prescription drugs. I've had veterans
tell me they were taking over thirty pills in a day.
That is more problematic than you can imagine, for the
number of reasons, including that each of them has side effects,

(00:52):
so some of those pills are to deal with the
side effects of this, to deal with the side effects
of that, it's wrecking your liver trying to process all
of this. It becomes untenable, and some of them simply
give up take their own life. I am open to
medical treatments for everything, you know. I have a friend
who had debilitating cancer. He was given six months to live.

(01:17):
He they basically wanted to put him into a care
that was a pre hospice to go home and die.
He's too young for that, see, in his thirties, he's
a wife and two young kids. So he began desperately
floundering around for something. Came across a treatment in Mexico,

(01:38):
started going down there getting treatment for this, his tumors
reduced in size. He came back to the cancer hospital
here and he said they were disappointed when they told
him his cancers had reduced. They didn't want that alternate
treatment to succeed. Look, there's a lot of snake oil salesmen,

(02:00):
there's a lot of elixers like in the outlod Josie
Wales for whatever ails you that are scams. There are
some needs to have some level of proof of concept
before you thrust things on people. But there is no
doubt in my mind that the American people are being
denied the opportunity to try treatments, some of which may
work that other countries are offering and you have to

(02:22):
go there to try them. And that shouldn't be the case.
We should be the cutting edge. So this is Medal
of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer in Austin before the state legislature,
testifying about the benefits of psychedelics to treating PTSD. As
the House votes overwhelmingly to pass a bill that would

(02:43):
fund a grant program for research in medical trials. We're
not going to play you, him speaking before the House
We're going to play you him three years ago on
Joe Rogan's show, talking about going to Mexico to treat
his PTSD with something called Iba game. They used to
call it shell shock. Yeah, I mean that's what they
used to call it before it was PTST. But troops

(03:05):
were coming back from Vietnam, they called them shell shocked.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
And I think, I mean, I think that was me
for a long time for sure. I mean that was
me for a long time. Like, did you get counseling
for that?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Did you? Like? How did you I went to Mexico?
What was in Mexico?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I went down and I did ibergain?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh did we talk about that the first time you
were on the podcast? No, I think I did it afterwards.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh really interesting, But yeah, I know I went to
How was that? I gave me my life back? I mean,
it gave me my life back. Like I went down
and I just got to the end, and I talked
about in this book. You know, I was going through
my divorce. I gosh, I did you talk about not

(03:54):
knowing what was next? I mean literally, you know, just gosh.
I was just I was melting down, just melting down
from the inside. And finally like one of my friends
looked at me and it's like he's like, hey, I
just went and did this. This is the date you're
going you need to go do this. And it was

(04:15):
at that point, like, you know, I grew up in
Kentucky and I I mean, I grew up with weed
is bad, right, I mean all this, right, you know
what I mean. And for me, it was just such
a It was just such a to think that I
was going to go do psychedelics. Right, it was just
like such a like it was like a moral thing
for me, right, I mean it was a moral moral dilemma, dilemma, yeah,

(04:39):
And but I mean it was all I had left
and I knew that for my daughter's I needed to
do something.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
State of Texas, according to the Census, has one point
four million veterans. Recent studies suggest between thirty three and
forty four veterans commits suicide every day in the United States.
Representative Cody Harris said, ibagain isn't just another drug. It's

(05:07):
a whisper of redemption. In a single dose. It can
silence the screams of withdrawal, quiet the cravings that chain
people to addiction, and mend the broken pieces of a
mind ravaged by trauma. It has been described as a
by Dakota Meyer as a hard reset. I don't know

(05:27):
if it works. I don't know how it works, but
I do know that I am very open and eager
for us to try things that might help people who
we send off to war and others, by the way,
who are suffering. To that end, Brian Hubbard is our guest.
Welcome to the program, Brian.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Thank you very much for the opportunity to spend time
with you and your audience this morning. Sir, what is.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Your involvement with ibagain? Let's start there.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
I am a former appointed leader in Kentucky State government.
I had the opportunity to run the state social Security,
disability and chine support enforcement systems, as well as a
law enforcement agency called the Office of Medicaid Fraud and
Abuse Control that investigates and consecutes medical providers for fraud
on that system. The last role I held in Kentucky

(06:22):
State government was as the first chairman and executive director
of the Kentucky Opioid Commission, which had its responsibility the
administration and oversight of almost one billion dollars in settlement
funds with which to combat an opioid epidemic that began
in the Appalachian Mountains of East Kentucky's southern West Virginia

(06:42):
and the Port of Virginia that I grew up in
in the far southwestern corner of that state. Within the
role of Chairman of the Opioid Commission, I said, our
very first responsibility is to look for Kentucky's Manhattan Project
opportunity to pioneer a therapeutic breakthrough for opioid dependent individuals.
Despite best intentions and the deployment of billions of dollars

(07:05):
in public money, our existing treatment options are delivering unacceptedly
mediocre results and we must do better. So from that position,
I started looking everywhere I could for what that opportunity
may be, and on July the twenty ninth of twenty
twenty two, I heard the word I Begain for the

(07:26):
very first time, and after eight months of intensive, due diligence,
research and critical examination that consisted of a second full
time off the books job performed over those months, I
came to the conclusion that I Begain had three powerful attributes.
One is that it essentially resolves physiological substance dependence for

(07:52):
opioids for alcohol, for cocaine, and for myth for which
there are no effective medical treatments to deal with ritual
in an accelerated time frame, and by that I mean
within thirty six to forty eight hours of an initial
administration for eighty percent of people who get it.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Bryan hold with me for just a moment. I had
him pictured as Colonel Sanders. He looks more like Jeremiah Johnson.
Roberts Restorers. Jeremiah Johnson were gonna holk up to a
lot younger than genius. Oh coup this morning and when

(08:33):
the Sunday sounds almost too good to be true, doesn't it?
A one time shock treatment of a product called a
psychedelic called I Begin that resets the system and addictions
and trauma. Man. I hope this is true.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
I really do.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I hope it works. I'm all for it if it works. Absolutely.
I can't know if it works. I can't. There are
lots of promises of a silver bullet, but there are
also things that work. I really for the people who
would benefit from this, I really hope it does. Brian
Hubbard is our guest. He's executive director of the American
Ibagaine Initiative. Through the R. E. I. D. Foundation. Brian,

(09:14):
I had you pictured looking like Colonel Sanders, and then
you came off looking like Jeremiah Johnson.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Well. I always enjoyed the opportunity to deliver unexpected surprises.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And how'd you get so haulked up? What's your background?

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Well, by the way of background, I grew up in
the cofields of Virginia. I grew up in a working
class family. I had two beautiful patholes who were grade
school educated coal miners underground for forty years, and they
were the guiding lights of my life. Like many folks
who are under the age fifty and younger, I had
parents who essentially had a relationship that I recall as

(09:57):
one of an amount of conflict and chaos and screaming
and hollering, and as a frightened young little boy, Papa
pulled me to the side of when I visit with them,
and they took great interest in me, and they'd say, look,
paf y'all knows you're scared, you're worried, you're frightened, But
you need to know two things. Path y'all loves you.

(10:20):
More importantly, God loves you, and God has a special
and unique purpose for your life, no matter how bad
it gets, no matter how dark things are or how
frightened you become, don't you ever lose sight of the
fact God is real, God is loved, and God's going
to take care of you and sir, if I hadn't
had those gentlemen given me that lesson from the time

(10:42):
I could understand language in July is about twelve years old.
If I were alive at all, I certainly wouldn't be
speaking with you as I am today. I would likely
be in some dark hole wondering what somebody who held
jobs like I have had it's going to come do
to pull me out of the ditch you ask. I
became who I am. I hope by the end of

(11:03):
my days I am half man that my grandfathers were,
and that is my greatest aspiration. So whatever virtue is there,
I credit to the benevolence of God in God's intervention
in my life through the two angels that he gave
me by way of grandfathers.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Brian Hobard, I first heard about I begin from Marcus Attrell,
and I wanted to clarify during the break that he
was okay me telling the story, and he did I
believe a single treatment, and he began evangelizing that this
was what needed to be done for veterans. What is
I begin and how does it work?

Speaker 4 (11:45):
I began as an alkaloid. It is psychoactive that is
derived from three West African plant sources. One is the ebogaru,
which takes about ten years to come into maturation. It
is the cultural pearl of West half a consident civilization
called the Buedis, and the Buedis have used eboga in
their cultural and religious ceremonies for centuries. In the mid sixties,

(12:09):
a gentleman by the name of Howard Lotzow had had
a heroin addiction that had nearly taken his life, and
he had struggled with it for nine years. He came
into contact with I a game that had been derived
from that devog route, and he had an experience that
lasted about ten to twelve hours, which is how long
I became list and at the end of it he
no longer wished to have heroin and he never went back.

(12:32):
And that touched off sixty years of intensive deep dies
observational field city and research to understand how this works.
There are two of the plant sources from which it
comes one is called the Bloconga Africana. It grows quickly,
it grows plentifully. It could grow in the Rio Grande
Valley of Texas. It is that environmentally suitable for this state. Uniquely,
there's a third source, the name of which I can't recall.

(12:53):
But what is known about I Begain as an individual
alkaloid is that it has the unique ability, as previously mentioned,
to resolve physiological substance dependence. It has recently been discovered
that not only does it interrupt addiction, but it has
profound regenerative effects on the brain itself. Our veterans, unfortunately,

(13:14):
are ground zero for multiple system failures within the United
States government, federally, state and local levels. We see this
as demonstrated by the dramatic rise in veteran suicide, the
dramatic rise and substance dependence among veteran populations that are
treated with a panople a pharmacology that at bottom essentially

(13:36):
and aesthetize the soul and slowly euthanize the body. And
as veterans have become desperate for relief that American systems
will not deliver, they have taken the hell Mary Pass
of a trip to Mexico for an eyebe game treatment,
and as they have returned in what are now numbers
in the thousands, and have advised that they have felt
the best that they can ever recall feeling in their life.

(13:57):
A cohort of thirty were studied by Stanford University. The
results were released in the journal Major Medicine on January fifth,
twenty twenty four, and those results were dramatic. Number One,
it has been discovered that I begain essentially resolves traumatic
brain injury. And what makes this so incredibly significant is

(14:17):
there is nothing known within the medical universe that regenerates
the tissue of the brain itself, not one thing except
for I have again. Pre and post MRI images of
the veteran brains revealed that a single administration of i'm
again created a regeneration of the plant matter that covered

(14:38):
the surface of each of these veteran brains. Flat matter
is the electrical highway across which all of our faults
and impulses travel. Not only was flat matter regenerated at scale,
but the centers of the brain responsible for emotional regulation
and executive functioning grew in size and the average reversal
with brain age among the cohort of thirty was one

(14:59):
and a half year, with the top five veterans in
their brains reverse in age by five years. So what
we now know is that not only is i begain
a profound addiction interruptor, but it has the capacity to
regenerate brain tissue in the ways that are just now
beginning to be understood. And if we have the opportunity

(15:21):
in Texas to pioneer i be gain's pharmaceutical development through
the FDA's process, as champion by House Bill author Cody
Harris and Senate Bill author Tan Parker, we are going
to pioneer breakthroughs related to the treatment of conditions that
impact the brain for which we have no effective answers,
and these include Parkinson's disease, line disease, multiple sclerosis, and

(15:46):
perhaps even Alzheimer's disease. We cannot develop this medication quickly
enough and deploy it within the US medical system fast
enough to satisfy me or anyone else who is in
need of its curative effects. So all eyes are now
on Texas as we look for an opportunity to allocate

(16:07):
fifty million dollars to create a perfect habit partnership to
get this across the line.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Hould with me for just a moment, Brian Hubbard, we're
discussing ib game in Texas. Ib O G A I
n E.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
Let me receive it all right.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Listen for the dial tone. It sounds like this the
Michael Berry Show shop tone indicates everything is ready for
your call. Thirty one days, Donald Trump will turn seventy
nine years old. Yesterday morning he did a lengthy press

(16:44):
conference boarded Air Force one, landed in Saudi Arabia to
multiple meetings. And it is six thirty three pm there,
six thirty four pm there, eight hours ahead of US
in Saudi Arabia, and he is speaking at the US
Saudi Investment Forum. I would still be jet lagged. And

(17:09):
he hasn't missed a beat and didn't mention his age.
He's twenty five years older than me. Brian Hubbard is
executive director of the Ibi Gain Foundation. To be clear, folks,
we're not trying to legalize IBA game. We're not trying
to get you to take it. We're not making I'm
not making any medical claims. This is an attempt to
fund and study a potentially life saving drug, because that's

(17:33):
what it turns out to be Brian Hubbard. You've explained
a little bit about this drug. Talk to us about
how this let's say this thing is legalized tomorrow. I
know some folks who are investors in this I've come
to find out of late, and they're very excited about
the opportunity. And I'm all for people making money. That
financial incentive makes money break loose and want to fund

(17:57):
more and do more. But what does this look like
in five years ideally in your mind.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Well, let's begin with the acknowledgment of a very specific
financial reality. The US and healthcare system, as influenced by
the pharmaceutical industry, is currently one which prioritizes the delivery
of treatments of chronosity over treatments that can actually deliver
curative results. And one of the necessities for public funding

(18:26):
for Ibergain trials within the FDA's framework is to medicalize
this within the United States. Public money is necessary because
ibergain lost its patent as an addiction treatment back in
nineteen ninety two, so there is no big form of
profit profit incentive to develop it. Because of the way
in which you can resolve opioid and other substance dependencies,

(18:50):
in five years. What we would hope to have is
a fully medicalized ibergain treatment system, or an individual who
has whether it's traumatic brain injury, post traumatic stress, or
Celsius dependency, can come into a clinically controlled medical setting,
spend anywhere from a week to ten days inpatient and

(19:11):
receive ebagain treatment. This is a very serious medication that
does come with certain cardiac risks and it's important that
this be administered by medical professionals along with cardiac care
nurses who are able to mitigate risk. And that risk
is the prolongation of the time between the beats of
the heart, which if they become too long, can lead

(19:33):
to cardiac or risk. Now, this particular risk can be
mitigated with the co administration and magnesium, and this is
something that's been known for decades. And this is something
that's been known for decades among folks who know what
they're doing with this. When a person takes what are
essentially appeals, and that's how it's currently administered in the
clinics of Mexico. You take appeal and then you lay

(19:55):
down once you begin to fill the effects and the
effects are usually accompanied by the sound of clicking in
your ears. And then you kind of feel a heaviness
and you lay down. Because I don't believe in preaching
what I ain't willing to practice. I underwent the treatment
to understand how it works and what the effect is
on the person. For about ten to twelve hours, you
are in a state of semi paralysis. You are at

(20:16):
all times oriented to person, place, and time. This is
not dissociative. If I were to take I have again
right now, in an hour, I could talk with you
as coherently as I am now, though I likely could
not walk. However, if I close my eyes, I will
likely see visions from my life's history, and I will

(20:36):
see them from a perspective that almost places me outside
of what my life has been, so that I am
able to process and understand those things that have happened
to me from a vantage point that is new and
one that helps me understand how to reorient my relationship
with myself and my relationship with the world. And it

(20:57):
is through this introspective process that individuals come away with
what I believe is Eyba Gain's most potent quality, and
that is its ability to affirm the reality of our
human divinity as children of an eternal creator whose essence
is almighty, unconditional love for each of us. Without an

(21:19):
acknowledgment of the existence and primacy of the human soul,
there is not any medical treatment that can be delivered
through synthetic pharmacology that can get anyone who is experienced
in despair anywhere close to where they need to be
to become a restored human being. There is the opportunity
to responsibly medicalize eye gain, which should never be the

(21:42):
subject of legalization or decriminalization efforts, precisely because of the
cardiac risk that accompanies it. It's a serious medication. It
gives a person the very best new beginning that can
be conferred upon them to rebuild a lift that has
been devastated by trauma and or trauma and addiction, because

(22:05):
at the heart of those conditions is profound spiritual affliction.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Can you hold there for just a moment, I want
to read something I read said? The United States outlawed
I began in ibogain in nineteen sixty seven alongside other psychedelics.
Regulators later deemed it a scheduled one control substance with
no accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.

(22:30):
In the same class as LSD and heroin. Now, I
don't know enough about ibogain to know, but I know
that LSD and heroin from my study, are very different drugs,
and that the people typically making these classifications or fearmongers.
I don't think that marijuana should be criminalized, so we
let's start there, at least not for adults. And I

(22:53):
don't want Tom smoking any in public, but that's a
different subject. But why do you think it was it's
categorized as this, and where do you think I know
you talked a little bit about under what terms would
you hopefully down the road if it passes the studies
and gets blessed that it would be administered. I know
you answered a little.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
Bit of that. So let's begin with this classification as
a Schedule one substance Opportion to Growth Substances Act. That
was an explicitly reactionary, politically destructive decision that was made
within this broad based catchment of anything and everything that
was deemed counterculture to the establishment of the time, in

(23:37):
particular the next administration and it's broad based war on
drugs that was in many ways racially motivated. Our legal
system is populated with what I would describe as a
number of fictitious legal realities that are used to bind, torture,
and kill the truth. And I begains classification as a

(24:01):
drug or medication that has a high perpensity for abuse
no therapeutic value is a prime example of one of
these fictitious legal realities. For everything that has a recreational
abusive use, there is a substantial street economy that borders it.
We know where opium comes from, we know where cocaine

(24:22):
comes from, we know where meth comes from. There are
extensive black markets in the United States that distribute all
of these substances through our society. Most folks have never
heard about iyebagame because there is no street economy for
ib Again, there's no street economy for iybergame because it
is not a drug of abuse. It is a highly
unpleasant and challenging physical experience to receive this medication. Its

(24:47):
function is explicitly anti addictive, though unpleasant, and it does
not in any way belonging to the schedule one.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Brian Howard, I guess discussing iber game coming up. What
a reprintable picture and if you don't like them, we'll
reprint them or refund your money, no matter who's fault
it is the Michael R.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Show.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
You have a photo map, your photo matters.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
You know that it would be untrue. I consider myself
a libertarian, that being leave people alone to make the
best decision for themselves. A lot of people want to
make decisions for other people. They want to deny them
opportunities to do this, or that there are too many
fat people. We need a law that you can't eat sugar.

(25:37):
There's too much of this. We need to prevent people
from doing it. Because I don't do it, they shouldn't
do it. I received a number of emails during the break,
one of which said, your conversation with the Gentleman regarding
IBI gain is dangerous. I have fifteen years of continuous sobriety.
The only all cap way to get and stay sober

(26:00):
long term is by working the twelve steps. Oh okay, okay,
all right. Using a drug to get sober is dangerous
and doesn't work. However, by working the twelve steps and
going to AA or NA as well as working with others,
will guarantee that you stay sober. I know a lot

(26:20):
of people who've been to AA twenty times or more
and it didn't work for them. This isn't just an opinion,
it is a fact. Oh yes, there's always a person
who says my way is the only way. And it's
very important that you offer no alternative path to end
up in that same place, even if on a map
it appears to me this is my path, this is

(26:41):
the only path. I won't let you say there's another path.
It's very important to me that you validate my opinion
and my way because this is the only way in
the history of mankind that anything has ever succeeded. And
I know that, even though I really don't even know
what I begain is because I know these things because
it worked for me.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yes, people are fascinating. People are fascinating. Brian Hubbard is
the executive director of the Iby Game Foundation. By the way,
I'm not trying to get anybody to do aba game.
I'm scared to death to do it. This trip you
take ten to twelve hours. This does not sound like
it's a faint of heart. My goodness alive. But I've
also watched guys who struggled when they came back from

(27:24):
war blow their brains out. That trip they were going
through was worse than what this thing's going to be,
and why wouldn't we We will give our our men,
our warriors, every ship, every gun, every explosive, every air cover, everything.
We'll spend billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars

(27:48):
to send them to war, and we can't look for
ways to help them heal when they come home when
we know they're hurting. It doesn't seem right, does it?
Brian Hubbard? Let's wrap up. How do folks learn more
about this? If they would like to learn.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
More, well, I'll point them in a couple of directions.
One is they can go to ibogain Texas dot com
and learn all about the Texas Ibvigating Initiative and its
goal of creating a first of its kind public private
partnership or by the State of Texas will lead this

(28:25):
country in the development of ibogain's breakthrough therapeutic potential to
address veterans suicide, veteran substance dependence, and other mental health
conditions that are brought on by the trauma of war.
Recognizing that veterans or ground zero for the most difficult
afflictions of the human condition, but certainly not the exclusive

(28:46):
possessors of those conditions, by virtue of the veterans walcome
through the door. Everyone else who shares in the burdens
of both trauma and addiction will be able to receive
with a successful Texas Project, the opportunity to choose this
treatment should they show wish and this very you said
it beautifully. There is no one size fits all in

(29:08):
the game of life. Every person is a unique individual,
and the pathway to recovery from trauma and addiction is
as unique as the person who has experienced it. We
are duty bound to diversify, expand, and improve on therapeutic
options within this society to people who suffer with any affliction,

(29:29):
and the opportunity Texas has with ima Game is one
to break down the door that has been erected by
the big phauma conglomerates that monetize sustained human misery. To
bring liberation to our sufferers in this life whose next
stop is the graveyard, but for the intervention effects that
an Eye a Game treatment can bring. You may also

(29:52):
go to Rally Texas dot org to express your support
for Senate Bill twenty threeh eight and House Bill thirty
seve seven seventeen to your elected representatives here in Texas,
whether they're your stay representatives, your state senators, your governor,
Lieutenant Governor Raley Texas dot org, please go there and
express your support for the passage of this critical legislation.

(30:14):
Whose state we will know by week's end.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I will quote my dear friend Marcus Latrell, who went
through the treatment, when he said, trying to abuse I
begain would be like abusing chemo medication. You don't want
should do it. You know, people fear that they don't
want anything to be legal because everybody's going to abuse it.

(30:41):
The most abused drug in America and has been one
hundred years of alcohol. It is so heavily abused that
most people don't even realize that they themselves are quote
unquote abusing it. They cannot imagine a life without it.
They couldn't hold a party without it, They couldn't have
the workers join after work without it. Some people wake

(31:01):
up and can't get till noon without it. They can't
have a lunch without it, they can't have a nice
dinner without it. It is so heavily abused. It is
such a major part of our economy, and it is
so much a coping technique, which is an abuse at
that at those levels, kidney, liver desk, heart desk, the
things that. But nobody's out there trying to bring back

(31:22):
prohibition because we recognize so people will say to me, Brian,
They'll say, well, you're right about all that, but we
can't make alcohol illegal yet, but we can keep all
the mothers illegal. But you understand that making something illegal
is not necessarily a benefit to society. Well, Brian, let
me wrap up by saying, I don't know the answer.
I've not done the treatment, and doesn't sound like I

(31:43):
want to do it. Marcus is a dear friend of mine.
He's pretty protective and he knows that my tolerance for
such things is a whole lot less than his, and
ha's challenged him. But I am interested in seeking out ways,
whether that be plant based, a psychedelic, or anything else
that can help people, not just veterans suffering from addiction
and trauma. And you know the early results of this

(32:07):
are are pretty good, so I look forward to hopefully
some more good returns on it. Thank you for sharing
your time with us, Brian Hubbard.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Thank you very much for your time, mister Berry. It's
been an honor and or privilege to speak with Cuit
in your audience, and let's all hope and pray that
we have a successful campaign here at the end of
the week in Texas.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
For I have again, thinker, brother, it is before the House,
and the House passed it one forty six to one.
It goes before the Senate now, and I suspect the
governor is going to side it.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Is it just me?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Or did Brian Hubbard sound a little bit like Walk
Goggins and justified Charlie did? Several people said, Charlie Daniels.
But there was a there was a Walk Goggins, you know,
Walk Goggins kind of kind of put on a Kentucky accent.
You know. That was Hazard County. I'm not going to
be a member at you or party the your y Ri.

(33:03):
I liked it. I could listen to him talk for
a while. It was a little bit Walkgoggin's a little
bit Foghorn, leg Horn, a little bit Colonel Sanders a
whole lot good though. I like it. I like it
a lot. He's an interesting cat, that's for sure. Hey,
look reading the emails, I know there's kind of a
split of opinion. What I would tell you is don't

(33:25):
be afraid of change, don't be afraid of experimentation. You know,
there's a reason they have test dummies in the automos
automobile industry to see what works and what doesn't. It's
okay to try things and fail. It's okay for us
to make mistakes in medicine. It's okay to give people
options of self treatment and different forms of treatment. It's
okay to explore what God put on this earth and

(33:46):
does it poison us or improve us? I mean, look,
you juice vegetables and you like that. You just don't know.
The point is keep an open mind, how about that?
But not so open that it falls out.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Ramon