September 11, 2024 • 14 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Today is the twenty third anniversary of the awful attack
on America on nine to eleven. I remember it, maybe
not like it was yesterday, but I remember it well.
Ramone suggested that we dig into the archives and post
(00:23):
something from that day, and well, he really thought this
one was the best one. So, first of all, Ramone
never suggests anything, and it never usually makes sense to do.
But in this case, it really did. It really really did.
(00:46):
And so from the archive to remember twenty three years ago.
The interview itself is from twenty ten, our conversation with
President George W.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Bush.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mister President. In the book, you talk about some Houston
memories which our Houston audience I know will enjoy. You
talk about going to Kincaid and of course your parents
live here. When you think about Houston and being in
Houston tonight, you'll be at your book signing in Houston tomorrow.
Where do you think about going for a burger? What
are the fond memories of Houston.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, first of all, Michael, it is an honor to
talk to the Czar of Texas Radio. And I am
going to be in Houston to night at Houston Baptist
university and then signing books tomorrow. I think about you
know what I think about. I think about the Houston cult,
forty five's, eventually the Astros, and I remember going I'm
(01:40):
a huge baseball fan, and I remember going out to
the park, the old park, next to next to the
roller coaster, watching the Major League Baseball team take root
in Houston. And I had a lot of fond memories
in Houston. Obviously my mother and dad were there. I
spent a lot of my formative years there, and I've
(02:02):
got a lot of friends in Houston.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, you say in the book you had the dream
job running the Texas Rangers, and you gave it all
up to run for governor when even your mom said
you couldn't win.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So you know, there you go at my call mom,
I said, Mom, I'm thinking about running against Anne Richards
and she said, you can't win.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I love that line. I love that line, mister President.
The media was often unflattering of you, starting with your
win in two thousand and I was one of the
folks that went on the strike force with your friend
Fred Ziman to Louisiana and then to Missouri, both of
which we won. And it just seemed like the media
was out to get you. I would argue a Republican
(02:42):
will never get a fair shake after your election. It
seemed like it seemed like they were out to get you.
There was a lot that was unflattering that was said
about you. You're right, What did you feel was the
most unfair thing that was said?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
A well, you know, it's amazing. First of all, I
didn't feel the media was at to get me. I
really didn't. And I believe this or not, I've got
great admiration for the notion of a press challenging those
of us who are fortunate enough to hold power. I
think it's very important part of our democracy. You know,
(03:16):
there was you know, some for example, newspapers were pretty
consistent in their criticism. But that's okay. You know, as
I travel around now and I'm signing these books, for example,
a lot but not a lot, and a number of
people welcome and say you're much taller than I thought
you were, which is a confirmation that images get set.
(03:39):
And you know, I joke about the book when I
say there is shock in some quarters of our society
because some thought I couldn't read much less right, And
I think when people read this book decision points, they'll
see that I was very deliberative, that I listened to
different opinions, that I was, you know, open minded about
(04:02):
different subjects. But they will also learn I wouldn't compromise
my principles.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, and on that point I appreciated and was not
aware on the Stemstell issue, Stimsdale's got a full chapter
in your book. I don't know that I remembered what
a big deal that was. Early in your presidency pre
nine to eleven, you had pro life advocates on one side,
you had Nancy Reagan writing you letters on the other,
(04:28):
the science versus morality issue. It seems you seem to
say that you were misunderstood on the issue, and particularly
that Democrats ran in O four as if you were
anti science. How would you like to be remembered on.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
That, Well, Michael, this is the reason I've dedicated to
chapter to it. One. It was a very controversial subject. Secondly,
I do think that society constantly has to balance ethics
and science. For example, that's been the case to that history. Thirdly,
I wanted people to know those on the principle that
all life is precious. Uh. Fourthly, I wanted people to
(05:04):
see how the issue evolved as I listened to a
lot of people and felt like I found a reasonable
middle ground, in other words, that we wouldn't destroy embryon
embryos uh proactively, but we could use our society could
use uh tax your money, taxpayers money to do research
on stem cells where the decision had already been made
(05:28):
and UH, and it was it was I'm trying to
get his piece. People said, wow, it's a reasonable position,
and then all of a sudden, politics and money took
over and the issue got distorted. And UH. The good
news about the issue is that research UH now enables
scientists to use adult stem cells, so the life decision
(05:49):
is is no longer as relevant as it was in
the past.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You know, nobody could argue that you didn't write this
book yourself, because the words you say I can hear
from the book which I just finished lately in exactly
the same way.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's fascinating you say.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
That was my purpose. Michael. I met with a bunch
of historians and to a person, they said, look, make
sure this sounds like you write it. Don't try to
fashion history, and don't try to kind of shape a
legacy just write what you saw, what you heard. And
I said, well, look, I want I don't want to
really want it to be about me. I want it
to be about the decisions I made, so that our
fellow citizens, whether they agree or didn't agree with the decisions,
(06:29):
can have a deeper understanding of what it was like
to be the president in the first eight years of
the twenty first century.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Miss President, nine to eleven was a day that shook
America and it changed your presidency. Tell me something about
that day that you've never told anyone that may have
changed our perspective. Something shocking from that day.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, you know, what was shocking was that the communications
were so poor that the fog of war really never lifted.
I think one of the I think a couple of
points on that day. I think people will be interested
in one. There was no humor that day, except for
(07:10):
a moment when I called my parents. I finally found
mother and dad and I said, all right. They said Wisconsin,
and my mother said, I said to my mother, what
are you doing there? She said, you grounded our plane.
The other thing is is that, wait a.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Second, your parents were in a motel. You say, even better,
right outside.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Of Milwaukee, and they had been grounded. You know, all
planes were grounded. I think people will One thing that
people don't know and will when they read the book
is that I had this sickening feeling when when I
heard the flight ninety three went down Shanksville, that it
was shot down on my orders. And you know, I'd
(07:52):
given the order to shoot down planes after certain procedures
had been followed, and I did that in order to,
you know, try to enhance our security. And then I
heard ninety three goes down, and there was a moment
where I said, oh, my goodness, this is you know,
I ordered the shoot down of a commercial lar. Then
(08:12):
I heard the story of Todd Biemer and the other
courageous passengers who who showed unbelievable courage. The other interesting
I think people find it interesting is what happened when
after I got back to the White House and Lauren
Iron bed and an agent said, mister President, the White
House is under attack. Let's go, and we scrambled and
(08:33):
hustled down in the basement of the White House, and
airman said, mister President was one of ours. And what
had happened was one of the planes that was supposed
to be patrolling. The scouter was patrolling. Disgies was headed
back to Andrews Air Force Base with the Wongs transponder signal,
and people thought this was the final plane that was
headed to the White House.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
What I enjoyed about your retelling of them coming to
get you and sending you down into the bunker is
scooping up the dogs as you went along. You really
put a personal perspective.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, I tried to, you know what, I love writing
the book and it's really fine. And one of the
more difficult aspects was to properly convey emotion and uh
and set the scene so the reader can, as best
as possible vividly imagine what has taken what was taking place.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Mister President, you said that that there's no do over.
You'll live with the consequences of the decisions you made.
But if there were a do over, would you carpet
bomb Afghanistan and Pakistan, the regions where you believed at
the time Osama bin Laden most likely lived. Should we
have done everything in our power to kill him?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well? We did, And you know the thing about it
is that when you're first of all, no, we shouldn't
have been indiscriminate in the use of weaponry. Uh. The
best way to deal with these terrorists. And still the
best way is to get good intelligence and then act
(10:01):
upon it. And uh we we we we moved you know,
all assets, not a lot of assets to try to
find him, and it was we were trying to find
one guy in a very remote part of the world.
My regret is we didn't bring him to justice. But
you know, for example, in the book, I make it
clear that the dilemma that any president will face UH
(10:24):
in putting troops into a sovereign nation like Pakistan, and uh,
you know that the democracy can't withstand uh the in
essence troop boots on the ground from a from another
country without permission from the government. And so the idea
of indiscriminately you know, bombing in a in a sovereign
(10:46):
country was just not a possibility.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Congratulations the groundbreaking for the Bush Center today at s
m U. Miss President, A couple of comments I wanted
to make from reading the book, and I know you
need to go one of the things that strikes me
early in book as you go to great links to
point out that there were some democrats that worked with
you as partners when they didn't have to, and it
launched your career, and it was good for the state
of Texas. You single out Pete Laney and Bob Bullock.
(11:12):
I thought that was a real class act that a guy,
after leaving the White House went all the way back
to your early years as governor and pointed out, we
wouldn't the world wouldn't know George Bush. But for that,
I thought that that was pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I also appreciate the fact that throughout the book you
have a self deprecating manner, which I think has been
your style. I think it makes you look like a
bigger person, and that leads to me your biggest compliment
your unwillingness to criticize Barack Obama. It's a job I
take up, it's a job Rush Limbaugh takes up. But
your silence on the issue of the job he's doing
(11:48):
is deafening. And I have to tell you talked about
Truman's place in history. I think your place in history
is partly going to be affected by your post presidential
behavior and the dignity that you and your family have
always carried to the office. So I appreciate you for
that and one final thing. I asked my listeners to
tell me something about you, that there's something that they
(12:09):
want me to share. And to a person, what I
heard was tell him thank you for the way he
carried himself in office, and for honoring the memories of
the people who died on nine to eleven, and for
what he did and continues to do. That beautiful picture
in Dallas. I believe it's Dallas, or maybe it's sport
Hood where you're thanking the soldiers. How much that means
to the members of our military and their family so on,
(12:33):
behalf of all Americans in the way you conduct yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Thank you, Thank you, Michael. It's good talking to the
czar of Texas Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
If you like Michael Berry Show in podcast, please tell
one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a nice
review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest in
being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated directly
to the show at our email address, Michael at Michael
(13:03):
Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website
Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and podcast
is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding Executive
producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director.
(13:27):
Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean.
Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our
assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated
into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not,
(13:50):
we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the
memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple
man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,
if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp
Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and
(14:15):
a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.
The Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Today is the twenty third anniversary of the awful attack
on America on nine to eleven. I remember it, maybe
not like it was yesterday, but I remember it well.
Ramone suggested that we dig into the archives and post
(00:23):
something from that day, and well, he really thought this
one was the best one. So, first of all, Ramone
never suggests anything, and it never usually makes sense to do.
But in this case, it really did. It really really did.
(00:46):
And so from the archive to remember twenty three years ago.
The interview itself is from twenty ten, our conversation with
President George W.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Bush.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mister President. In the book, you talk about some Houston
memories which our Houston audience I know will enjoy. You
talk about going to Kincaid and of course your parents
live here. When you think about Houston and being in
Houston tonight, you'll be at your book signing in Houston tomorrow.
Where do you think about going for a burger? What
are the fond memories of Houston.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, first of all, Michael, it is an honor to
talk to the Czar of Texas Radio. And I am
going to be in Houston to night at Houston Baptist
university and then signing books tomorrow. I think about you
know what I think about. I think about the Houston cult,
forty five's, eventually the Astros, and I remember going I'm
(01:40):
a huge baseball fan, and I remember going out to
the park, the old park, next to next to the
roller coaster, watching the Major League Baseball team take root
in Houston. And I had a lot of fond memories
in Houston. Obviously my mother and dad were there. I
spent a lot of my formative years there, and I've
(02:02):
got a lot of friends in Houston.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, you say in the book you had the dream
job running the Texas Rangers, and you gave it all
up to run for governor when even your mom said
you couldn't win.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So you know, there you go at my call mom,
I said, Mom, I'm thinking about running against Anne Richards
and she said, you can't win.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I love that line. I love that line, mister President.
The media was often unflattering of you, starting with your
win in two thousand and I was one of the
folks that went on the strike force with your friend
Fred Ziman to Louisiana and then to Missouri, both of
which we won. And it just seemed like the media
was out to get you. I would argue a Republican
(02:42):
will never get a fair shake after your election. It
seemed like it seemed like they were out to get you.
There was a lot that was unflattering that was said
about you. You're right, What did you feel was the
most unfair thing that was said?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
A well, you know, it's amazing. First of all, I
didn't feel the media was at to get me. I
really didn't. And I believe this or not, I've got
great admiration for the notion of a press challenging those
of us who are fortunate enough to hold power. I
think it's very important part of our democracy. You know,
(03:16):
there was you know, some for example, newspapers were pretty
consistent in their criticism. But that's okay. You know, as
I travel around now and I'm signing these books, for example,
a lot but not a lot, and a number of
people welcome and say you're much taller than I thought
you were, which is a confirmation that images get set.
(03:39):
And you know, I joke about the book when I
say there is shock in some quarters of our society
because some thought I couldn't read much less right, And
I think when people read this book decision points, they'll
see that I was very deliberative, that I listened to
different opinions, that I was, you know, open minded about
(04:02):
different subjects. But they will also learn I wouldn't compromise
my principles.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, and on that point I appreciated and was not
aware on the Stemstell issue, Stimsdale's got a full chapter
in your book. I don't know that I remembered what
a big deal that was. Early in your presidency pre
nine to eleven, you had pro life advocates on one side,
you had Nancy Reagan writing you letters on the other,
(04:28):
the science versus morality issue. It seems you seem to
say that you were misunderstood on the issue, and particularly
that Democrats ran in O four as if you were
anti science. How would you like to be remembered on.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
That, Well, Michael, this is the reason I've dedicated to
chapter to it. One. It was a very controversial subject. Secondly,
I do think that society constantly has to balance ethics
and science. For example, that's been the case to that history. Thirdly,
I wanted people to know those on the principle that
all life is precious. Uh. Fourthly, I wanted people to
(05:04):
see how the issue evolved as I listened to a
lot of people and felt like I found a reasonable
middle ground, in other words, that we wouldn't destroy embryon
embryos uh proactively, but we could use our society could
use uh tax your money, taxpayers money to do research
on stem cells where the decision had already been made
(05:28):
and UH, and it was it was I'm trying to
get his piece. People said, wow, it's a reasonable position,
and then all of a sudden, politics and money took
over and the issue got distorted. And UH. The good
news about the issue is that research UH now enables
scientists to use adult stem cells, so the life decision
(05:49):
is is no longer as relevant as it was in
the past.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You know, nobody could argue that you didn't write this
book yourself, because the words you say I can hear
from the book which I just finished lately in exactly
the same way.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's fascinating you say.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
That was my purpose. Michael. I met with a bunch
of historians and to a person, they said, look, make
sure this sounds like you write it. Don't try to
fashion history, and don't try to kind of shape a
legacy just write what you saw, what you heard. And
I said, well, look, I want I don't want to
really want it to be about me. I want it
to be about the decisions I made, so that our
fellow citizens, whether they agree or didn't agree with the decisions,
(06:29):
can have a deeper understanding of what it was like
to be the president in the first eight years of
the twenty first century.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Miss President, nine to eleven was a day that shook
America and it changed your presidency. Tell me something about
that day that you've never told anyone that may have
changed our perspective. Something shocking from that day.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, you know, what was shocking was that the communications
were so poor that the fog of war really never lifted.
I think one of the I think a couple of
points on that day. I think people will be interested
in one. There was no humor that day, except for
(07:10):
a moment when I called my parents. I finally found
mother and dad and I said, all right. They said Wisconsin,
and my mother said, I said to my mother, what
are you doing there? She said, you grounded our plane.
The other thing is is that, wait a.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Second, your parents were in a motel. You say, even better,
right outside.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Of Milwaukee, and they had been grounded. You know, all
planes were grounded. I think people will One thing that
people don't know and will when they read the book
is that I had this sickening feeling when when I
heard the flight ninety three went down Shanksville, that it
was shot down on my orders. And you know, I'd
(07:52):
given the order to shoot down planes after certain procedures
had been followed, and I did that in order to,
you know, try to enhance our security. And then I
heard ninety three goes down, and there was a moment
where I said, oh, my goodness, this is you know,
I ordered the shoot down of a commercial lar. Then
(08:12):
I heard the story of Todd Biemer and the other
courageous passengers who who showed unbelievable courage. The other interesting
I think people find it interesting is what happened when
after I got back to the White House and Lauren
Iron bed and an agent said, mister President, the White
House is under attack. Let's go, and we scrambled and
(08:33):
hustled down in the basement of the White House, and
airman said, mister President was one of ours. And what
had happened was one of the planes that was supposed
to be patrolling. The scouter was patrolling. Disgies was headed
back to Andrews Air Force Base with the Wongs transponder signal,
and people thought this was the final plane that was
headed to the White House.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
What I enjoyed about your retelling of them coming to
get you and sending you down into the bunker is
scooping up the dogs as you went along. You really
put a personal perspective.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, I tried to, you know what, I love writing
the book and it's really fine. And one of the
more difficult aspects was to properly convey emotion and uh
and set the scene so the reader can, as best
as possible vividly imagine what has taken what was taking place.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Mister President, you said that that there's no do over.
You'll live with the consequences of the decisions you made.
But if there were a do over, would you carpet
bomb Afghanistan and Pakistan, the regions where you believed at
the time Osama bin Laden most likely lived. Should we
have done everything in our power to kill him?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well? We did, And you know the thing about it
is that when you're first of all, no, we shouldn't
have been indiscriminate in the use of weaponry. Uh. The
best way to deal with these terrorists. And still the
best way is to get good intelligence and then act
(10:01):
upon it. And uh we we we we moved you know,
all assets, not a lot of assets to try to
find him, and it was we were trying to find
one guy in a very remote part of the world.
My regret is we didn't bring him to justice. But
you know, for example, in the book, I make it
clear that the dilemma that any president will face UH
(10:24):
in putting troops into a sovereign nation like Pakistan, and uh,
you know that the democracy can't withstand uh the in
essence troop boots on the ground from a from another
country without permission from the government. And so the idea
of indiscriminately you know, bombing in a in a sovereign
(10:46):
country was just not a possibility.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Congratulations the groundbreaking for the Bush Center today at s
m U. Miss President, A couple of comments I wanted
to make from reading the book, and I know you
need to go one of the things that strikes me
early in book as you go to great links to
point out that there were some democrats that worked with
you as partners when they didn't have to, and it
launched your career, and it was good for the state
of Texas. You single out Pete Laney and Bob Bullock.
(11:12):
I thought that was a real class act that a guy,
after leaving the White House went all the way back
to your early years as governor and pointed out, we
wouldn't the world wouldn't know George Bush. But for that,
I thought that that was pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I also appreciate the fact that throughout the book you
have a self deprecating manner, which I think has been
your style. I think it makes you look like a
bigger person, and that leads to me your biggest compliment
your unwillingness to criticize Barack Obama. It's a job I
take up, it's a job Rush Limbaugh takes up. But
your silence on the issue of the job he's doing
(11:48):
is deafening. And I have to tell you talked about
Truman's place in history. I think your place in history
is partly going to be affected by your post presidential
behavior and the dignity that you and your family have
always carried to the office. So I appreciate you for
that and one final thing. I asked my listeners to
tell me something about you, that there's something that they
(12:09):
want me to share. And to a person, what I
heard was tell him thank you for the way he
carried himself in office, and for honoring the memories of
the people who died on nine to eleven, and for
what he did and continues to do. That beautiful picture
in Dallas. I believe it's Dallas, or maybe it's sport
Hood where you're thanking the soldiers. How much that means
to the members of our military and their family so on,
(12:33):
behalf of all Americans in the way you conduct yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Thank you, Thank you, Michael. It's good talking to the
czar of Texas Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
If you like Michael Berry Show in podcast, please tell
one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a nice
review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest in
being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated directly
to the show at our email address, Michael at Michael
(13:03):
Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website
Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and podcast
is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding Executive
producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director.
(13:27):
Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean.
Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our
assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated
into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not,
(13:50):
we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the
memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple
man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,
if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp
Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and
(14:15):
a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.
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