May 7, 2026 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's that time. Time, Time, luck and load. The Michael
Verie Show is on the air. So named Michael Jackson Biopic.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is in theaters now and it's already broken every record
for revenues for a music with what they used to
call a rock doc, a film about a musician. And
these are somewhat formulaic. And you can understand why because
(01:02):
the music. First of all, you've got a built in
audience for the film. You've got fans of the person
you're making the film about, and those fans will show
up because they're fans now. They will leave either saying
you did a good job, you said my guy's great,
(01:23):
or you did a horrible job you didn't say my
guy was great. But you've already sold the ticket at
that point. If you make a film about a love
story in the mountains and you know he dies and
she feels sad, it's hard to generate interest for that
(01:44):
film versus all the others.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
If you look at the list of movies that are.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Out at any given time and how many are about
a famous person, you will see how formulaic this has become.
And because it is a business that wants a secured return,
it's become kind of the annuity industry in that films only,
or filmmakers or investors only invest in a sure thing.
(02:14):
It's not going to change anybody's world, but that story
and maybe I'll learn something about that person I didn't
already know anything about.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So I went and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Saw it and it was great because Michael T and
his girlfriend came in, and so it was something the
four of us could do together, and he was interested.
My kids have grown up listening to music a lot
in the truck as I drive around, and so they
have more than a passing interest in music. They're always
(02:46):
listening to music, and I'm proud of the fact that
they listened to a very broad array of music, some current,
but a lot of it older, including much older, and
I'd like to think that that had something to do
with hearing it in my truck. But so it was
an opportunity for the four of us to go together
and it was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
We went to the UH.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I put out a Facebook page because a friend of
mine was looking to go see it on Friday, and
I looked at the responses and checked with some friends
and we tried out a place that's over on the
West side at the Beltway called Star Cine mcgrill and
quick review. In that place, it was very nice. They
(03:31):
it was eighteen dollars for the upgraded ticket, which was
the you know, recliner like an ipick experience, and it
was just as nice as I picked, just as nice.
They have the non reclining seats for I think eleven bucks.
But if you wanted the upgrade experience and you got popcorns,
(03:51):
would this be the appropriate time to say the popcorn
wasn't very good. Okay, I'm gonna look a gift towards mouth.
It wasn't very good. And you got a blanket. And
if you're one of those people who's says, ah, I
wouldn't put on a blanket in a public part, well
I would. I like a blanket when I'm in a movie.
I like to tak a nap. If I got my blanky,
I ain't taking an out. You've got a table in
front of you, you have staff that come and serve you,
(04:12):
and I'm gonna be honest with you. They did not,
you know, put out a casting call for this staff
and get the best staff in the world. But these
were people who could deliver your food within reason. I mean,
there was a forty minute wait at one point on
a cup of coffee.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I needed a cup of coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That doesn't that being so Anyway, the Michael Jackson movie,
I must tell you to start with that. Most people's
view of the movie is going to start with the
fact that if you go to a movie about Michael Jackson,
chances are you love Michael Jackson. I don't love Michael Jackson.
I don't hate Michael Jackson. I don't love him. I'm
indifferent to his music. People think I'm kidding when I
(04:52):
say that I was never a super fan of his music.
There are a lot of things that I am well
aware of. I've studied, I've lived through, I know every
word to almost every song. But I can't say that
I'm a fan. I don't hate him, but I'm not
a fan either. I do think that his weirdness. I
(05:16):
know that his weirdness bothers me. He is, at a minimum,
was at a minimum, very weird. I personally believe he
was a pedophile. I also believe It is fascinating, and
I mean deeply fascinating, how many people will say that
he wasn't a pedophile.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
How do you know, and what you really.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Get to if they're honest, is because human Nature is
a good song. He made great art. There's no doubt
about that. It's not art that moves me. I'm not
a pop guy. I've had people email he's a king
of pop. Yeah, I'm not a pop guy. Pop music
is a soundtrack. It's it's what's the music in the
(06:02):
elevator called? It's music? To me, there's nothing wrong with it.
I don't hate it. I don't think it's terrible. I
don't find it to be very deep. That's why I
don't gravitate to YouTube Depeche Mode, Duran, Duran. If it's
on in the background, I won't turn it down. I
(06:23):
don't despise it. I don't think it's terrible. It doesn't
bother me. It's pleasant enough as background music. It doesn't
appeal to me. I don't know why that upsets people.
It doesn't need to appeal to me. You love it, yay?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I understand. I made notes. I understand what a big
star he was. His estate makes more per year.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Now than any living artist.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
The numbers of what he's done since his death in
almost twenty years is approaching three billion dollars. It is
a juggernaut. It dwarfs even Elvis, which was the only
model before that. They've not monetized John Lennon in that way,
and I think there's a long, long, fascinating story about
(07:14):
why that is. But there is the Elvis story, and
then there is the Michael Jackson story as a financial juggernaut.
There's nothing else similar. When he died, he was almost
five hundred, the estate was almost five hundred million dollars
in debt. Within short order, they started selling off his
music rights, and Sony alone has paid them over two
(07:34):
billion dollars since then. It's really an interesting story. I
think he is the greatest dancer, performer, songwriter combination in
American history, not even close. It's I can't even think
of who a number two would be. I can't even
think of who a number two. You're going to make
a huge drop off. His influence on dance alone is staggering.
(08:01):
His writing and I don't think I realized this before
the movie, and then I spent the weekend digging in.
He wrote almost everything he ever did. That's amazing considering
how much they sold. One of the five most influential
musicians in American history, no question, maybe three right.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
The movie.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
However, when you say the name Michael Jackson, you generally
get one of two reactions from people who know him
in his music.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
You either get love it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Absolutely super fan, and there are so many of them.
Michael Jackson was that big thrillers, as big as any
album ever. The Jackson Five were popular, widely known than
Michael Jackson late seventies, early eighties, go off on his
(09:01):
own and is a superstar on a scale that you
you know, you think as big as Adele got, as
a star, as big as Adele ever got, he was
two hundred times that. As big as Ed Scharan ever got.
(09:21):
He was two hundred times that, and for much, much,
much longer. And he became a person that there was
an obsession over covering that then moved from just the
music and some questions as to his weirdness, and there
was a lot of weirdness, there's no way around that,
(09:44):
into just this odd ball personal behavior. For all the
talk of Elvis today, people didn't know a lot of
Elvis's problems. They weren't played out, so they weren't it
out publicly. Michael Jackson's were fish bowl, you know, the
(10:04):
dangling the baby over the over the banister that. I
don't think any Michael Jackson fan watched that and.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Thought, I love that guy. Do more of that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think they cringed and thought, I'm not going to
le anybody criticize him. Then there there is the physical transformation.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Then there is the multiple.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I mean, there were actual trials for pedophilia, and it's
it's probably the most disgusting crime in the American psyche
that you can undertake. And then there was the interview
with Martin basheer Uh where he says, yes, I have
(10:50):
children sleep in my bed. It's very natural. There's nothing
more loving, and it's it's upsetting to me when y'all
say that it's weird, it's it's it's I don't I
don't think. I think if he wasn't a musician and
he was just a dude saying that, it would have
been string him up.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Today.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I don't think any person who defends that would defend
that if they weren't just deeply moved by his music.
And a lot of them don't even realize that music
is a very very powerful bond between the artist and
the fan. It can make the fan overlook a lot
(11:30):
of things. Jerry Lee Lewis was called the killer. He
killed a woman, shot another guy in the chest who
was in his band, not on accident. He lifted the
gun and pulled the trigger. You know, these sorts of things.
There were people showing up for what's Wall of Sound
(11:52):
guys or the Wig Phil Spector, and he wasn't even
the frontman artist. You know, when you see the connection
people have to spend their money to drive to a concert,
to get an autograph, to swoon in front of them.
It's a very very deep, deep cult like connection, and
(12:18):
so trying to reason with those people there isn't. I
enjoyed the conversation. I enjoy the all right maybe this,
and those people don't want to hear it. I have
a good friend who is the biggest Michael Jackson van
and we have yelling matches that generally degenerate into me
telling him that he's a complete idiot because he can't
have a conversation about Michael Jackson without talking like he's
(12:41):
four years old. And you're criticizing the tooth fairy, which
I just find nutty. How can I trust you on
any other issue when you deny that there's even the
specter of oddness. Okay, how about this? How about okay,
you have children. How about your next door neighbor has
(13:02):
a very loving relationship with children, and he would like
your children to sleep in bed with him tonight. He's
a single man.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
By the way.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh oh, the ceiling is high, that's your Oh okay,
well I didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Oh it's a big bed. Oh okay, all right, I
didn't realize that. Oh he was abused as a child.
Oh well, that makes it much less likely that he's
going to act out in the most weird way. If
someone is a victim of trauma, it increases the likelihood
they're going to do things that are outside the norms.
It doesn't decrease it. What is your child the therapy
(13:37):
puppy for this dude. It's all very weird. And it's
fine if you say he was wrong, everybody was out
to get him, or whatever else you say. But there's
no way that you could objectively believe that the most
extreme of his odd behaviors would be Okay, if he
(14:01):
wasn't Michael Jackson. And when I say if he wasn't
Michael Jackson. I mean, if he wasn't the biggest star
for a twenty five year period, there's no way. There's
absolutely no way it couldn't be justified. Then there is
the voice, the behaviors, the dress. Okay, somehow Prince got
(14:22):
a pass on most of that and Michael Jackson didn't.
All right, Then there is the surgeries.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I have a brother that has vita lago.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I did not know anything about vida lago until a
few years ago. We were having lunch and I asked
him about it. And it's his splotchiness in the skin,
these white patches. If you know Faiso Punawala, who's my friends,
who has Spring Branch Medical supplot, he also has vite lago.
So he's Indian dacy skin, brown skin except half his mustache,
(14:55):
like exactly half is white, like a really old man.
And then he's got white patches on his skin. And
now his son has it. It's passed down. It's like
a bleaching of the skin that naturally occurs, and Michael
Jackson had that, and that was supposedly the reason for
the glove.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I get that. I'll cut that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The skin bleaching or ventilago, which one it was I
don't know. I think he was very self conscious of
his look and the fact that his brown black skin
was bleaching out. I think that I think that was
very traumatic, denying you've ever had clastic surgery. Yellow problem
with that?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
All right, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
The movie, Michael Perry.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
So let's get to the subject of the movie itself.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It ends with to be continued because it really only
takes you through the first part of Michael Jackson's life.
The family is getting rich off of this, and the
estate is growing in value. It's increased the plays for
Michael jackson music. It will increase the sale of memorabilia.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
It will.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It will make his music library worth more money as
his music is played more often. The family retained because
it was important that the family be part of approving
the movie itself. The family retained an editorial control, and
they resisted refused reference to even the earliest stages of
(16:35):
the sexual perversion as it related to kids. It'll be
interesting to see if the movie comes to market. The
second version. My understanding is the family wants three.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I think this one takes it up to eighty eight.
I don't know how you go from eighty eight on
and make a biopic of Michael Jackson and don't include
the trials, and I think they started and was it
ninety one? You've got trials where you've got kids claiming
(17:15):
some pretty awful things. And this isn't shoplifting we're talking about.
But for this movie, it feels to me, and you're
welcome to react, and I'm going to open the phones up.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It feels to me.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Like this is a case that Dan cogdill would take
as a criminal defense attorney. You know, the guy walks in, Hey,
I need a lawyer, all right? What happened? Well, they
arrested me. They accused me of stabbing this guy forty times.
I got blood all over me. I have the knife
in my hand and I'm screaming, I just stabbed you
(17:52):
forty times. So now you have to go through and
address each of them. Okay, why is a knife in
his hand? Well, do y'all even know? I know that
he was cutting pickles at the exact time that that happened,
or tomatoes?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Lies the blood on you? Well, I had a scab
like you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
It's as if they're taking everything that is harming his
legacy and making a movie to make you question everything
you knew about him. Michael Jackson's a pedophile if you
thought that, oh, well did you know?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Or Michael Jackson's just weird. There's the weirdness factor.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And you can tell me he's not weird because you
don't think he's weird because you like his music. But
I will assure you if you ask people on a panel,
they'll tell you they think he's weird as hell. There's
no way around that. In fact, I don't know a
person in public life who is more weird over a
period of time. I'm open to you telling me somebody
(18:50):
who's more weird. I can't honestly think of anyone. If
you were his estate, you'd have him not be weird.
But that's who he was, right, That's like asking Trump
not to piss people off. He's going to piss people off.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
That's who he is.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So there is It appears to me an attempt to
make him a person who was a victim, a person
who really is not responsible for the actions.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They took because he did. Okay, he lived.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
On Neverland ranch, he had all these animals, and he
brought kids out there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Oh he didn't have a childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
He was horribly abused by his father. I think both
of those things are true. I think that he did
have a lot of trauma. I think life was difficult.
I don't know of very many cases where a child
star ends up as a normal adult. And that's Dana Plato,
that's Todd Bridges, that's Shirley Temple, that's you could go
(19:49):
one after the other after. It's almost never the case
that a child star ends up with a normal adult life,
functional life. Anyway, he was a bigger star early. He
was never not a star. I do think his dad
was a bastard. I don't know why, maybe just because
we've been told that so many times. One other thing,
(20:10):
Janet Jackson is not a part of the film because
she chose not to be a part of the film.
She did come ind Jermaine's brother son, her nephew, Joffer,
who plays Michael Jackson. And let me say this, whatever
one thinks of the film, that kid became Michael Jackson.
There were moments where I was studying it for AI
(20:32):
because there was no way that he was that much
like Michael Jackson. And it helps that Michael Jackson wore
makeup and so you could apply the makeup. You couldn't
make the natural face exactly as his uncle was, but
you could if Michael wore that much makeup, you could
(20:53):
use the makeup and make them closer. Now, I don't
know what they're going to do when Michael is much
lighter skin and his nose is pinched. I don't know
how they're going to do that. That's going to be
interesting to see. But that is really the takeaway of
the movie. What is the guy's name, Robmy who played
Freddy Freddie Mercury, You know what I'm talking about, Rommy Raymi,
(21:17):
that guy that was a breakout of performance. It was nothing.
Raby Malick, Yes, it was nothing compared to this. That kid.
And my understanding is no acting credits before this. He
embodied his uncle. And I think this thing has been
was shot over a six and a half year period.
(21:37):
I read that somewhere because they ran out of money,
they ran out of interest, and so he had to
First of all, he had to have the right build.
He had to be slight of build. You couldn't have
any muscularity, you couldn't have any thickness, you couldn't have
any of that. You had to have this exact style
of build to look like Michael Jackson, and he did,
(21:58):
at least for that age, which is really his character
that he picks up in about seventy eight seventy nine
and goes through eighty eight. He is so perfect for
this it's incredible. The other thing worth noting is that
Prince's daughter, who is an absolute stunner just as gorgeous
(22:23):
as you can imagine, calls the movie a fantasy and
says people are living in a fantasy land and that
none of the movie is true, and she has refused
to be a part of it and claims, well, I'll
leave that there. His brother, her brother, Prince, is listed
as an executive producer and is kind of involved in
promoting it, and the rest of the family, who've lived
(22:45):
off his name and money and fame and talent their
entire lives, are all very much behind it, except for Janet,
the sibling with whom he was closest. I think that's
pretty interesting. But in any case, Alan, what do you say.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, I went and took my wife, who is the
hugest Michael Jackson fan, and our youngest son, who is eleven,
who who she has made into the largest Michael Jackson
fan at his age anyhow, you know, And it was
a good movie. We enjoyed it. It went to nineteen
eighty eight, right like you said. And we got back
(23:23):
in the car and I said, well, where's the part
where he did with mcaulay Thulton, because I'm a huge
Home Alone fan, you know, And she just glared at me.
So it was a good movie. I've just now heard
what you said about it being a trilogy. I don't
understand how they're going to make three movies out of it,
but I'm interested to understand or see what they do,
(23:46):
so I'll hang out.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
When you say you don't know how they're going to
make three movies out of it, they don't have to
be three good movies if you've got enough promotion on
the front end. You know, this thing sold turned fifty
eight million dollars in the first week, so that already
surpasses any rock biopic or any music biopic in space.
So they're going to get people who are going to
(24:08):
come and see the movie.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Those people may you may not.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You may just not get phase two and three where
those people say you gotta go see this.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
And I think the number one reason.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
People are gonna say, you gotta go see this is
because Joffer Jackson becomes Michael Jackson and that alone is
amazing and incredible and impressive and other leading companies. Maybe
because I don't dance, That's why I'm not Hujenda pop.
Because it's really just dance music, you know, Brent. There's
(24:39):
no deep exploration of any real themes. It's it's mostly
just dance music if you think about it.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, that's my explanation. Pam, you're on the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Hi, I had a story from forty two years ago,
and I don't think I've told it before. It seemed
like a.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Let's be let's let this be the moment when you
tell it.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I'm pretty nervous, but I've calmed down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Please don't be nervous.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Well, okay, So this was either in nineteen eighty four
or nineteen eighty five. I was a really big Michael
Jackson fan. And I was in either ninth or tenth
grade at a school here, at high school in the
Cypress area, and I met a girl and she was
a black girl from Louisiana, I think it was Louisiana,
(25:32):
and she was a vegetarian in her mother. She told
me we made friends over the school year, and she
was very shy, respectful, and very religious girl. She was
Jehovah Witness and her family, her mother with Jehovah Witness
and they were vegetarians. And I always thought that was
weird because I had never met one before. And after
(25:54):
a long time of getting to know her at school,
I think it was near the last day at school
or second last statement is last week of school, she
told me her mother had been a cook or a chef,
a vegetarian cook for Michael Jackson. And I didn't believe her,
and so, I mean, because it would just blew my mind.
How is that possible? You know? But even though she
(26:15):
had never lied, I thought she was a very honest person,
and I believe she is. So the next day she
brought to school a picture of herself and her mother
and Michael Jackson all seeing me together and she had
gone out to visit while her mother was working there.
And the interesting part of the story, the most interesting
part was, I said, is your mom's still working for
(26:37):
him as a cook? And she said no, her mother
quit And I said, well, what do you mean, why
would she quit and she said that she witnessed things
out there that were not good things going on, and
she couldn't work for him anymore.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Interesting, So you did great?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
I did, Okay. I guess nervous and I thought this
story might be stupid, But she's a true story. She
showed me a picture too, and it was a genuine picture.
You couldn't you know, photoshop back in eighty fourth.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well, it's funny you say that, because that's what came
to mind when you said she showed you a picture, Because.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
How are you.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Right now? I'm fifty. I'll be fifty seven in June.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Okay, so we're almost center fifty eight.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
I'm sorry, I'll be fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So you said it as if that was completely dispositive
of the issue. You said, I didn't believe it was true,
but she brought me a picture, And I missed the
times when someone could bring you a picture of something
happening and that meant it happened. There's a certain loss.
(27:48):
It's kind of a shifting sands about the way we
live today, that something can be a video even and
it's not true and you're not sure.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Yes, it's very sad because now history and everything can
be rewritten, and there's almost no way to convince the
younger people that what they're seeing may not be true.
It's just I don't know of any way to you know,
in old days there was proof. Positives was easy, yeah,
to show, But no, it's not so much not to.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Be the well actually person.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
But I have always or I have long believed that
that we're constantly in the process of re litigating, re promoting,
readjusting things. And that brings us back to the movie,
which is I believe this is an attempt to color
(28:42):
the Michael Jackson reputation and shave off the edges and
make it much more palatable, where people don't see him
as a pedophile. They don't see him as a guy
with all these problems and and all these these these
warts and all. They see him as a guy who
was wonderful but had had these things done to him.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Right, and he'll be a cash cow and that respect
for this music and everything else for probably another couple decades,
because there's no other one person, no other musician to
still his shoes. Really, yeah, that way.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
That's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I think his estate will be a cash cow as
long as people knew him live as an artist. So
I'm fifty five, you're fifty seven. I don't know that
the next generation will be. You know, my kids know
every one of his songs. I know because I asked
(29:41):
him and I went through and named some songs and
they knew the lyrics. But I don't know that. And
that's two generations really because I'm an older parent. But
I don't know that the under forty crowd would still
feel a need.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Look, they were putting Sinatra into movies long after his
career was over, and there are other things. There's sixties
music that they do that for, but don't I don't
see that lasting.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Beyond as as our generation gets.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Older, right, and this younger generation, like the Gen Z.
I don't know about millennials, but Gen Z and below them,
Gen Alpha and maybe even Gen Beta is what it
heards in the names of these generations. A lot of
them are not dating and not socially active the way
we were, and they really identify with him as being
a loner and a shy person, and they can identify
(30:39):
and it's one of the few people they identify with
I think music.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
That's an interesting point, you know, I had not thought
about that, how many of what I and other people
see as these odd aspects of him are something that
other people gravitate toward.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I had not considered that.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And also when my friend told me the story and
what I think happens a lot with Michael Is, I
got an instant cognitive dissonance where I couldn't there's two
separate versions of him that I can't reconcile and it
just makes your brain really really jam up. At the time,
not so much anymore, but at the time, I was
(31:20):
definitely stunned.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, Pam, this is a very This is a question
I have wrestled with for a long time. Is art
is in and of itself art? And always was right?
No one says, well, I like Picasso's Cornobaca, but you know,
(31:44):
some of the women he was sleeping with were certainly
under eighteen, and there are some questionable circumstances. Nobody looks
into Michael Angelo or Chagall or whatever, Dostoyevski or Broms
or bat and I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Know the art for arts.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
If you listen to a composition and it deeply moves
you on the merits of the music, is it important
that we go yes, but did he have any personal
criminal behaviors or anti social behaviors or awful things that
(32:26):
he ever did, or political cleanings? Pg Woodhouse was destroyed
for being a Nazi sympathizer.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I still love his writing, and I own I don't
know a hundred of his books. There's ninety of his.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Books, however many you you can get. But yes, his
politics were awful. So art for Art's saying. You know,
if somebody paints a beautiful painting and you love that
painting and it means something you and you later find
out the head bad polities, do you love that painting
any less?
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Less?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Thank you and good night
It's that time. Time, Time, luck and load. The Michael
Verie Show is on the air. So named Michael Jackson Biopic.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is in theaters now and it's already broken every record
for revenues for a music with what they used to
call a rock doc, a film about a musician. And
these are somewhat formulaic. And you can understand why because
(01:02):
the music. First of all, you've got a built in
audience for the film. You've got fans of the person
you're making the film about, and those fans will show
up because they're fans now. They will leave either saying
you did a good job, you said my guy's great,
(01:23):
or you did a horrible job you didn't say my
guy was great. But you've already sold the ticket at
that point. If you make a film about a love
story in the mountains and you know he dies and
she feels sad, it's hard to generate interest for that
(01:44):
film versus all the others.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
If you look at the list of movies that are.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Out at any given time and how many are about
a famous person, you will see how formulaic this has become.
And because it is a business that wants a secured return,
it's become kind of the annuity industry in that films only,
or filmmakers or investors only invest in a sure thing.
(02:14):
It's not going to change anybody's world, but that story
and maybe I'll learn something about that person I didn't
already know anything about.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So I went and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Saw it and it was great because Michael T and
his girlfriend came in, and so it was something the
four of us could do together, and he was interested.
My kids have grown up listening to music a lot
in the truck as I drive around, and so they
have more than a passing interest in music. They're always
(02:46):
listening to music, and I'm proud of the fact that
they listened to a very broad array of music, some current,
but a lot of it older, including much older, and
I'd like to think that that had something to do
with hearing it in my truck. But so it was
an opportunity for the four of us to go together
and it was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
We went to the UH.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I put out a Facebook page because a friend of
mine was looking to go see it on Friday, and
I looked at the responses and checked with some friends
and we tried out a place that's over on the
West side at the Beltway called Star Cine mcgrill and
quick review. In that place, it was very nice. They
(03:31):
it was eighteen dollars for the upgraded ticket, which was
the you know, recliner like an ipick experience, and it
was just as nice as I picked, just as nice.
They have the non reclining seats for I think eleven bucks.
But if you wanted the upgrade experience and you got popcorns,
(03:51):
would this be the appropriate time to say the popcorn
wasn't very good. Okay, I'm gonna look a gift towards mouth.
It wasn't very good. And you got a blanket. And
if you're one of those people who's says, ah, I
wouldn't put on a blanket in a public part, well
I would. I like a blanket when I'm in a movie.
I like to tak a nap. If I got my blanky,
I ain't taking an out. You've got a table in
front of you, you have staff that come and serve you,
(04:12):
and I'm gonna be honest with you. They did not,
you know, put out a casting call for this staff
and get the best staff in the world. But these
were people who could deliver your food within reason. I mean,
there was a forty minute wait at one point on
a cup of coffee.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I needed a cup of coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That doesn't that being so Anyway, the Michael Jackson movie,
I must tell you to start with that. Most people's
view of the movie is going to start with the
fact that if you go to a movie about Michael Jackson,
chances are you love Michael Jackson. I don't love Michael Jackson.
I don't hate Michael Jackson. I don't love him. I'm
indifferent to his music. People think I'm kidding when I
(04:52):
say that I was never a super fan of his music.
There are a lot of things that I am well
aware of. I've studied, I've lived through, I know every
word to almost every song. But I can't say that
I'm a fan. I don't hate him, but I'm not
a fan either. I do think that his weirdness. I
(05:16):
know that his weirdness bothers me. He is, at a minimum,
was at a minimum, very weird. I personally believe he
was a pedophile. I also believe It is fascinating, and
I mean deeply fascinating, how many people will say that
he wasn't a pedophile.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
How do you know, and what you really.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Get to if they're honest, is because human Nature is
a good song. He made great art. There's no doubt
about that. It's not art that moves me. I'm not
a pop guy. I've had people email he's a king
of pop. Yeah, I'm not a pop guy. Pop music
is a soundtrack. It's it's what's the music in the
(06:02):
elevator called? It's music? To me, there's nothing wrong with it.
I don't hate it. I don't think it's terrible. I
don't find it to be very deep. That's why I
don't gravitate to YouTube Depeche Mode, Duran, Duran. If it's
on in the background, I won't turn it down. I
(06:23):
don't despise it. I don't think it's terrible. It doesn't
bother me. It's pleasant enough as background music. It doesn't
appeal to me. I don't know why that upsets people.
It doesn't need to appeal to me. You love it, yay?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I understand. I made notes. I understand what a big
star he was. His estate makes more per year.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Now than any living artist.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
The numbers of what he's done since his death in
almost twenty years is approaching three billion dollars. It is
a juggernaut. It dwarfs even Elvis, which was the only
model before that. They've not monetized John Lennon in that way,
and I think there's a long, long, fascinating story about
(07:14):
why that is. But there is the Elvis story, and
then there is the Michael Jackson story as a financial juggernaut.
There's nothing else similar. When he died, he was almost
five hundred, the estate was almost five hundred million dollars
in debt. Within short order, they started selling off his
music rights, and Sony alone has paid them over two
(07:34):
billion dollars since then. It's really an interesting story. I
think he is the greatest dancer, performer, songwriter combination in
American history, not even close. It's I can't even think
of who a number two would be. I can't even
think of who a number two. You're going to make
a huge drop off. His influence on dance alone is staggering.
(08:01):
His writing and I don't think I realized this before
the movie, and then I spent the weekend digging in.
He wrote almost everything he ever did. That's amazing considering
how much they sold. One of the five most influential
musicians in American history, no question, maybe three right.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
The movie.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
However, when you say the name Michael Jackson, you generally
get one of two reactions from people who know him
in his music.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
You either get love it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Absolutely super fan, and there are so many of them.
Michael Jackson was that big thrillers, as big as any
album ever. The Jackson Five were popular, widely known than
Michael Jackson late seventies, early eighties, go off on his
(09:01):
own and is a superstar on a scale that you
you know, you think as big as Adele got, as
a star, as big as Adele ever got, he was
two hundred times that. As big as Ed Scharan ever got.
(09:21):
He was two hundred times that, and for much, much,
much longer. And he became a person that there was
an obsession over covering that then moved from just the
music and some questions as to his weirdness, and there
was a lot of weirdness, there's no way around that,
(09:44):
into just this odd ball personal behavior. For all the
talk of Elvis today, people didn't know a lot of
Elvis's problems. They weren't played out, so they weren't it
out publicly. Michael Jackson's were fish bowl, you know, the
(10:04):
dangling the baby over the over the banister that. I
don't think any Michael Jackson fan watched that and.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Thought, I love that guy. Do more of that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think they cringed and thought, I'm not going to
le anybody criticize him. Then there there is the physical transformation.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Then there is the multiple.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I mean, there were actual trials for pedophilia, and it's
it's probably the most disgusting crime in the American psyche
that you can undertake. And then there was the interview
with Martin basheer Uh where he says, yes, I have
(10:50):
children sleep in my bed. It's very natural. There's nothing
more loving, and it's it's upsetting to me when y'all
say that it's weird, it's it's it's I don't I
don't think. I think if he wasn't a musician and
he was just a dude saying that, it would have
been string him up.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Today.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I don't think any person who defends that would defend
that if they weren't just deeply moved by his music.
And a lot of them don't even realize that music
is a very very powerful bond between the artist and
the fan. It can make the fan overlook a lot
(11:30):
of things. Jerry Lee Lewis was called the killer. He
killed a woman, shot another guy in the chest who
was in his band, not on accident. He lifted the
gun and pulled the trigger. You know, these sorts of things.
There were people showing up for what's Wall of Sound
(11:52):
guys or the Wig Phil Spector, and he wasn't even
the frontman artist. You know, when you see the connection
people have to spend their money to drive to a concert,
to get an autograph, to swoon in front of them.
It's a very very deep, deep cult like connection, and
(12:18):
so trying to reason with those people there isn't. I
enjoyed the conversation. I enjoy the all right maybe this,
and those people don't want to hear it. I have
a good friend who is the biggest Michael Jackson van
and we have yelling matches that generally degenerate into me
telling him that he's a complete idiot because he can't
have a conversation about Michael Jackson without talking like he's
(12:41):
four years old. And you're criticizing the tooth fairy, which
I just find nutty. How can I trust you on
any other issue when you deny that there's even the
specter of oddness. Okay, how about this? How about okay,
you have children. How about your next door neighbor has
(13:02):
a very loving relationship with children, and he would like
your children to sleep in bed with him tonight. He's
a single man.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
By the way.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh oh, the ceiling is high, that's your Oh okay,
well I didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Oh it's a big bed. Oh okay, all right, I
didn't realize that. Oh he was abused as a child.
Oh well, that makes it much less likely that he's
going to act out in the most weird way. If
someone is a victim of trauma, it increases the likelihood
they're going to do things that are outside the norms.
It doesn't decrease it. What is your child the therapy
(13:37):
puppy for this dude. It's all very weird. And it's
fine if you say he was wrong, everybody was out
to get him, or whatever else you say. But there's
no way that you could objectively believe that the most
extreme of his odd behaviors would be Okay, if he
(14:01):
wasn't Michael Jackson. And when I say if he wasn't
Michael Jackson. I mean, if he wasn't the biggest star
for a twenty five year period, there's no way. There's
absolutely no way it couldn't be justified. Then there is
the voice, the behaviors, the dress. Okay, somehow Prince got
(14:22):
a pass on most of that and Michael Jackson didn't.
All right, Then there is the surgeries.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I have a brother that has vita lago.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I did not know anything about vida lago until a
few years ago. We were having lunch and I asked
him about it. And it's his splotchiness in the skin,
these white patches. If you know Faiso Punawala, who's my friends,
who has Spring Branch Medical supplot, he also has vite lago.
So he's Indian dacy skin, brown skin except half his mustache,
(14:55):
like exactly half is white, like a really old man.
And then he's got white patches on his skin. And
now his son has it. It's passed down. It's like
a bleaching of the skin that naturally occurs, and Michael
Jackson had that, and that was supposedly the reason for
the glove.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I get that. I'll cut that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The skin bleaching or ventilago, which one it was I
don't know. I think he was very self conscious of
his look and the fact that his brown black skin
was bleaching out. I think that I think that was
very traumatic, denying you've ever had clastic surgery. Yellow problem
with that?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
All right, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
The movie, Michael Perry.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
So let's get to the subject of the movie itself.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It ends with to be continued because it really only
takes you through the first part of Michael Jackson's life.
The family is getting rich off of this, and the
estate is growing in value. It's increased the plays for
Michael jackson music. It will increase the sale of memorabilia.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
It will.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It will make his music library worth more money as
his music is played more often. The family retained because
it was important that the family be part of approving
the movie itself. The family retained an editorial control, and
they resisted refused reference to even the earliest stages of
(16:35):
the sexual perversion as it related to kids. It'll be
interesting to see if the movie comes to market. The
second version. My understanding is the family wants three.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I think this one takes it up to eighty eight.
I don't know how you go from eighty eight on
and make a biopic of Michael Jackson and don't include
the trials, and I think they started and was it
ninety one? You've got trials where you've got kids claiming
(17:15):
some pretty awful things. And this isn't shoplifting we're talking about.
But for this movie, it feels to me, and you're
welcome to react, and I'm going to open the phones up.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It feels to me.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Like this is a case that Dan cogdill would take
as a criminal defense attorney. You know, the guy walks in, Hey,
I need a lawyer, all right? What happened? Well, they
arrested me. They accused me of stabbing this guy forty times.
I got blood all over me. I have the knife
in my hand and I'm screaming, I just stabbed you
(17:52):
forty times. So now you have to go through and
address each of them. Okay, why is a knife in
his hand? Well, do y'all even know? I know that
he was cutting pickles at the exact time that that happened,
or tomatoes?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Lies the blood on you? Well, I had a scab
like you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
It's as if they're taking everything that is harming his
legacy and making a movie to make you question everything
you knew about him. Michael Jackson's a pedophile if you
thought that, oh, well did you know?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Or Michael Jackson's just weird. There's the weirdness factor.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And you can tell me he's not weird because you
don't think he's weird because you like his music. But
I will assure you if you ask people on a panel,
they'll tell you they think he's weird as hell. There's
no way around that. In fact, I don't know a
person in public life who is more weird over a
period of time. I'm open to you telling me somebody
(18:50):
who's more weird. I can't honestly think of anyone. If
you were his estate, you'd have him not be weird.
But that's who he was, right, That's like asking Trump
not to piss people off. He's going to piss people off.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
That's who he is.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So there is It appears to me an attempt to
make him a person who was a victim, a person
who really is not responsible for the actions.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They took because he did. Okay, he lived.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
On Neverland ranch, he had all these animals, and he
brought kids out there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Oh he didn't have a childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
He was horribly abused by his father. I think both
of those things are true. I think that he did
have a lot of trauma. I think life was difficult.
I don't know of very many cases where a child
star ends up as a normal adult. And that's Dana Plato,
that's Todd Bridges, that's Shirley Temple, that's you could go
(19:49):
one after the other after. It's almost never the case
that a child star ends up with a normal adult life,
functional life. Anyway, he was a bigger star early. He
was never not a star. I do think his dad
was a bastard. I don't know why, maybe just because
we've been told that so many times. One other thing,
(20:10):
Janet Jackson is not a part of the film because
she chose not to be a part of the film.
She did come ind Jermaine's brother son, her nephew, Joffer,
who plays Michael Jackson. And let me say this, whatever
one thinks of the film, that kid became Michael Jackson.
There were moments where I was studying it for AI
(20:32):
because there was no way that he was that much
like Michael Jackson. And it helps that Michael Jackson wore
makeup and so you could apply the makeup. You couldn't
make the natural face exactly as his uncle was, but
you could if Michael wore that much makeup, you could
(20:53):
use the makeup and make them closer. Now, I don't
know what they're going to do when Michael is much
lighter skin and his nose is pinched. I don't know
how they're going to do that. That's going to be
interesting to see. But that is really the takeaway of
the movie. What is the guy's name, Robmy who played
Freddy Freddie Mercury, You know what I'm talking about, Rommy Raymi,
(21:17):
that guy that was a breakout of performance. It was nothing.
Raby Malick, Yes, it was nothing compared to this. That kid.
And my understanding is no acting credits before this. He
embodied his uncle. And I think this thing has been
was shot over a six and a half year period.
(21:37):
I read that somewhere because they ran out of money,
they ran out of interest, and so he had to
First of all, he had to have the right build.
He had to be slight of build. You couldn't have
any muscularity, you couldn't have any thickness, you couldn't have
any of that. You had to have this exact style
of build to look like Michael Jackson, and he did,
(21:58):
at least for that age, which is really his character
that he picks up in about seventy eight seventy nine
and goes through eighty eight. He is so perfect for
this it's incredible. The other thing worth noting is that
Prince's daughter, who is an absolute stunner just as gorgeous
(22:23):
as you can imagine, calls the movie a fantasy and
says people are living in a fantasy land and that
none of the movie is true, and she has refused
to be a part of it and claims, well, I'll
leave that there. His brother, her brother, Prince, is listed
as an executive producer and is kind of involved in
promoting it, and the rest of the family, who've lived
(22:45):
off his name and money and fame and talent their
entire lives, are all very much behind it, except for Janet,
the sibling with whom he was closest. I think that's
pretty interesting. But in any case, Alan, what do you say.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, I went and took my wife, who is the
hugest Michael Jackson fan, and our youngest son, who is eleven,
who who she has made into the largest Michael Jackson
fan at his age anyhow, you know, And it was
a good movie. We enjoyed it. It went to nineteen
eighty eight, right like you said. And we got back
(23:23):
in the car and I said, well, where's the part
where he did with mcaulay Thulton, because I'm a huge
Home Alone fan, you know, And she just glared at me.
So it was a good movie. I've just now heard
what you said about it being a trilogy. I don't
understand how they're going to make three movies out of it,
but I'm interested to understand or see what they do,
(23:46):
so I'll hang out.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
When you say you don't know how they're going to
make three movies out of it, they don't have to
be three good movies if you've got enough promotion on
the front end. You know, this thing sold turned fifty
eight million dollars in the first week, so that already
surpasses any rock biopic or any music biopic in space.
So they're going to get people who are going to
(24:08):
come and see the movie.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Those people may you may not.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You may just not get phase two and three where
those people say you gotta go see this.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
And I think the number one reason.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
People are gonna say, you gotta go see this is
because Joffer Jackson becomes Michael Jackson and that alone is
amazing and incredible and impressive and other leading companies. Maybe
because I don't dance, That's why I'm not Hujenda pop.
Because it's really just dance music, you know, Brent. There's
(24:39):
no deep exploration of any real themes. It's it's mostly
just dance music if you think about it.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, that's my explanation. Pam, you're on the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Hi, I had a story from forty two years ago,
and I don't think I've told it before. It seemed
like a.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Let's be let's let this be the moment when you
tell it.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I'm pretty nervous, but I've calmed down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Please don't be nervous.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Well, okay, So this was either in nineteen eighty four
or nineteen eighty five. I was a really big Michael
Jackson fan. And I was in either ninth or tenth
grade at a school here, at high school in the
Cypress area, and I met a girl and she was
a black girl from Louisiana, I think it was Louisiana,
(25:32):
and she was a vegetarian in her mother. She told
me we made friends over the school year, and she
was very shy, respectful, and very religious girl. She was
Jehovah Witness and her family, her mother with Jehovah Witness
and they were vegetarians. And I always thought that was
weird because I had never met one before. And after
(25:54):
a long time of getting to know her at school,
I think it was near the last day at school
or second last statement is last week of school, she
told me her mother had been a cook or a chef,
a vegetarian cook for Michael Jackson. And I didn't believe her,
and so, I mean, because it would just blew my mind.
How is that possible? You know? But even though she
(26:15):
had never lied, I thought she was a very honest person,
and I believe she is. So the next day she
brought to school a picture of herself and her mother
and Michael Jackson all seeing me together and she had
gone out to visit while her mother was working there.
And the interesting part of the story, the most interesting
part was, I said, is your mom's still working for
(26:37):
him as a cook? And she said no, her mother
quit And I said, well, what do you mean, why
would she quit and she said that she witnessed things
out there that were not good things going on, and
she couldn't work for him anymore.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Interesting, So you did great?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
I did, Okay. I guess nervous and I thought this
story might be stupid, But she's a true story. She
showed me a picture too, and it was a genuine picture.
You couldn't you know, photoshop back in eighty fourth.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well, it's funny you say that, because that's what came
to mind when you said she showed you a picture, Because.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
How are you.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Right now? I'm fifty. I'll be fifty seven in June.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Okay, so we're almost center fifty eight.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
I'm sorry, I'll be fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So you said it as if that was completely dispositive
of the issue. You said, I didn't believe it was true,
but she brought me a picture, And I missed the
times when someone could bring you a picture of something
happening and that meant it happened. There's a certain loss.
(27:48):
It's kind of a shifting sands about the way we
live today, that something can be a video even and
it's not true and you're not sure.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Yes, it's very sad because now history and everything can
be rewritten, and there's almost no way to convince the
younger people that what they're seeing may not be true.
It's just I don't know of any way to you know,
in old days there was proof. Positives was easy, yeah,
to show, But no, it's not so much not to.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Be the well actually person.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
But I have always or I have long believed that
that we're constantly in the process of re litigating, re promoting,
readjusting things. And that brings us back to the movie,
which is I believe this is an attempt to color
(28:42):
the Michael Jackson reputation and shave off the edges and
make it much more palatable, where people don't see him
as a pedophile. They don't see him as a guy
with all these problems and and all these these these
warts and all. They see him as a guy who
was wonderful but had had these things done to him.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Right, and he'll be a cash cow and that respect
for this music and everything else for probably another couple decades,
because there's no other one person, no other musician to
still his shoes. Really, yeah, that way.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
That's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I think his estate will be a cash cow as
long as people knew him live as an artist. So
I'm fifty five, you're fifty seven. I don't know that
the next generation will be. You know, my kids know
every one of his songs. I know because I asked
(29:41):
him and I went through and named some songs and
they knew the lyrics. But I don't know that. And
that's two generations really because I'm an older parent. But
I don't know that the under forty crowd would still
feel a need.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Look, they were putting Sinatra into movies long after his
career was over, and there are other things. There's sixties
music that they do that for, but don't I don't
see that lasting.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Beyond as as our generation gets.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Older, right, and this younger generation, like the Gen Z.
I don't know about millennials, but Gen Z and below them,
Gen Alpha and maybe even Gen Beta is what it
heards in the names of these generations. A lot of
them are not dating and not socially active the way
we were, and they really identify with him as being
a loner and a shy person, and they can identify
(30:39):
and it's one of the few people they identify with
I think music.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
That's an interesting point, you know, I had not thought
about that, how many of what I and other people
see as these odd aspects of him are something that
other people gravitate toward.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I had not considered that.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And also when my friend told me the story and
what I think happens a lot with Michael Is, I
got an instant cognitive dissonance where I couldn't there's two
separate versions of him that I can't reconcile and it
just makes your brain really really jam up. At the time,
not so much anymore, but at the time, I was
(31:20):
definitely stunned.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, Pam, this is a very This is a question
I have wrestled with for a long time. Is art
is in and of itself art? And always was right?
No one says, well, I like Picasso's Cornobaca, but you know,
(31:44):
some of the women he was sleeping with were certainly
under eighteen, and there are some questionable circumstances. Nobody looks
into Michael Angelo or Chagall or whatever, Dostoyevski or Broms
or bat and I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Know the art for arts.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
If you listen to a composition and it deeply moves
you on the merits of the music, is it important
that we go yes, but did he have any personal
criminal behaviors or anti social behaviors or awful things that
(32:26):
he ever did, or political cleanings? Pg Woodhouse was destroyed
for being a Nazi sympathizer.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I still love his writing, and I own I don't
know a hundred of his books. There's ninety of his.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Books, however many you you can get. But yes, his
politics were awful. So art for Art's saying. You know,
if somebody paints a beautiful painting and you love that
painting and it means something you and you later find
out the head bad polities, do you love that painting
any less?
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Less?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Thank you and good night
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