May 7, 2026 ⢠27 mins
This Saturday marks the start of National Stuttering Awareness Week 2026. westutter.org
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is she allowed to be here? Are you allowed?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I don't know why you're here, well, I mean other
than visiting, But are you here on official business or anything?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're just a regular person. Come here if you don't mind.
Steve is here from Denver. Yeah, stop them for a visit.
I just got all that snow the oh that's right, yeah,
get right up on that. You're cool that you're in here,
right sir? Yeah, of course the How bad was the
(00:29):
snow when you were flying out?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I missed it?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Are you serious?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So I came out here. I'm on Monday. I'm I mean,
it was seventy and then it's snowed. Then it's Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
They're supposed to get back.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Up till like seventy five this weekend. Yeah, yeah, no,
it's supposed to so you totally miss it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What are you going back.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
In a couple hours. My flight's at four? Oh oh oh, all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Right, well, good seeing you. Thanks for stopping by. What
were you What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Did you just come to visit? I'm on a on
business trip.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh okay, I got you. Good for you? Good for you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hey, can I can I ask you some and I
and I hope that I didn't I knew that you
were coming by today.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I didn't know when you were coming by. The I
was gonna I was you know who Billie Eilish is, right, Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The I was reading something about her yesterday, and if
it's unfair to link the two together, let me know,
right the so I was reading something about her yesterday.
She has Tourette's and she has tics, and so she
was talking about she did an interview. I don't remember
who it was with, but she did an interview that
where she was talking about During interviews or during like
(01:43):
very public things, she has to focus really really hard
on suppression, where like she'll hold her arms a certain
way so that you can't see her her hands.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Tick or you know whatever whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know what all of Billie Eilish's ticks are
is is the stuttering and and if and I'm not
trying to be mean, so if if, if the two
of them are so far apart, are there is there
a suppression that goes on in the world of stuttering.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It can be yeah, so uh there so the uh
so this so the actual core base, uh I'm stutter
is actually like I'm a I'm a i'm a I'm
a i'm a small i'm elongation. But then lots of
the things that you see as i'm as as it's
(02:36):
a a stutter our avoidance uh behaviors, And so I
might might might might say that as a way to
try to not stutter, but it makes it more obvious.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, wait, the avoidance behavior makes it more obvious like
reverse psychology.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, oh, but then it didn't work on me. Well,
like so uh, it's it's a way to to try
to like force yourself through the the the pause, right,
but but then that that that trick might might work
for a bit, but then you know, you have to
bob your head and then you have to tap your arm,
and then you have to repeat or say or like
(03:16):
or something. I got And so I actually went through
avoidance or a reduction on therapy where you you just
have have to have to have to practice I'm feeling
the shame of of of of stuttering. Uh, and then
that can help you live a normal life.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I don't, I mean, I this is weird.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No, no, no, like I I like that, like I
like that there's therapy for it and stuff, But I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I don't like that you have to that. I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I don't like how the phrasing is where where it
is like you you have to learn to accept the
shame of it, like I don't. I don't like that
part of it.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Like I don't im you shouldn't you shouldn't feel shame
for it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, but you just kind of naturally do. But then
you want to kind of work your way through and
pass the shame.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Right, So like, but you don't feel any shame from it.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
No, I've I have have definitely gained gained confidence over
the last fifteen twenty years of being in therapy and
then just living a normal life, right. So, like there
were times back in therapy where I would call up
a pizza place and then fake fake stutter until they
(04:32):
said like like hey man, I gotta go. It's it's
a busy time, and then they and then they would
just hang up and hang up, and then like you
kind of feel that wash of shame and then it's like,
but I didn't die, Great, I can process this now.
And then so doing that and just being more comfortable,
(04:53):
then now I can talk on the radio. Now I
call in every couple of months or yea.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
By the way, you do a much more job than
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Like I'm all over the place the but so wait,
but go back for a second. So you would call
a pizza place and try to order, just try to
make a regular order.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And then they stutter?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But how and again I don't I'm I'm not trying
to be mean. I don't understand. How do you fake stutter?
Like I feel like if I were, don't get mad
at me. But if I called a pizza place, it
was like, I, I'm fake stuttering.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You're not fake stuttering. You're stuttering.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I can real stutter or I can good, good good
go like that that actually turned real a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I was gonna say I caught it at the end.
I caught it at the end. You couldn't fool me. Sorry,
it's a busy time. I have to go.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But but why why would you? Why would you fake stutter?
Because don't you know that you're going to eventually stutter?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah? I think I can kind of turn up the
heat a bit bit more and I can make the
stutter really bad.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It takes like it gives your power over it. Right, Yeah,
that's it really?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Uh, I will.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's my new bit. I call out every time it's
fake or real, that was real, I think, Okay, that's
the bit. No, No, but I don't I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't understand how there's there's power over it by
by faking.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It, I will always stutter, and so, uh, you know,
I can accept that that fact, and then I can
kind of uh be okay with stuttering and not I'm
trying to hide it or try to avoid it. And
so that's how I've gotten comfortable with it over the
last couple of years. And then I give talks in
front of people. Now I am part of the National
(06:45):
Stuttering Association, and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I remember that, like you travel around and you'll do
conferences and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's why I didn't know if you were in d
C doing a conference. No.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So then there's an annual conference each year. And then
I made a couple of recommendations a couple of years ago,
and and then now I'm in charge of of of
of production and programming for the conference. Are you really
that's great? Yeah? And so our next conference is coming
(07:15):
up the first first first week of of of of July.
And I'm Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Do you want me to host the Q and a.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Of course you can't laugh though that's kind of a rule.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I can't do it kind of a rule.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But now so so let me ask you, this is
is one of the like when you were growing up,
like when did you start to have?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You always started You've always.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Had three or four or something.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Like when you were growing up, I'm sure you had
friends that were awesome and it was like whatever, no
big deal, everything's fine. And then I'm sure that there
that there were dicks you went to school with and
that's gonna happen and you know that the but like
the people that you were close with, don't they always
say one of the and I'm not a good rule follower,
but don't they say, like, don't try to jump in
(08:09):
and finish somebody's thoughts or finish somebody's sentences, like just
give it a moment, it's coming.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yep, exactly, yeah, right, okay, yeah, And there's been times
where people trying to help it and they try to guess,
you know, what I'm going to say, and then they
keep guessing wrong words. Now, no, not either, but it's
it's it's it's it's a like a genetic brain brain
(08:35):
thing actually, and so if I'm trying to say a
phrase and I just can't say that one word, I
can actually kind of like take a like side pause,
and so I'll be like like I'm at this, Wow,
I cannot say studio right, Like right, it's a brain thing.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
But so okay, so genetic in that way, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's not like my my younger kid at at at
Miami of Ohio. They have a really really good friend
who's who's a stutterer, and they're awesome. They're they're great
with them and everything's fine, and his friend group is
awesome and every everything, everything is good. But is it
when you said genetic, is it passed It's not passed down.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
It can be passed down yet, can it really?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No, kid?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yes, I have two kids, and and I imagine that
one might's might might stutter at some point I'm in
their lives.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And then eighty percent of people who's who's who's I'm,
who's I'm who's who's stutter? Are guys? Actually, so my
son has a higher chance of stuttering.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Do you have I'm assuming the two kids wants a boy,
one girl and boy.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, so the boy eighty percent of stutters are males,
no kidding?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And what is the what.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Is the percentage of if your parents stuttered, stutters you're
going to stutter?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Oh I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I imagine pretty high.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Did your parents stutter?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, I don't know who uh uh uh I'm in
my family stuttered, but uh there there could be some
you know, long lost uncle or grandpa or something who
who didn't really participate in the in the in the
family because because he kind of held held himself back
because he didn't want to stutter in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I'm really excited that I have now kind of passed
through the shame portion and now I'm just a guy.
That's that's that stutters out. I'm in the world and
I can confidently raise a family, have a job.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Hey, can I ask you that? How old?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
If you if you don't want to say, you don't
have to, how old are your kids?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I have a a I'm a I'm a I'm a
three year old and eighteen month old son.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh, okay, I got you. I don't know why I
thought that yeah was older and okay, well done. Maybe
he don't want to say.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Maybe I guess I can say now we have I'm
a third I'm on the way to dude. That's awesome. Yeah,
that's a Do you know.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
If it's a boy? Have you? Do you know if
it's a boy or no? Right, no, you'll find out later.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
The So the the eighteen month old, obviously you said
would have a better chance of of stuttering than that. No,
but I was gonna say they're not, they're not old
enough yet. But I was wondering, like you talk about
going through therapy and having shame, I don't. I don't
know what age you met your your wife and got
(11:43):
married and stuff. But do you do you get concerned
at all that it's going to bother your kids. Not
not so much that it'll bother them that their dad's stutters,
but it will be concerning for them. And maybe you
know this from going around and talking to other people
where it's like I don't want to bring my friends
over to the house, Like I don't want I don't
(12:05):
want my friends to be a dick to me because
my dad stutters?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Like does that? Does that ever go on?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I haven't thought about that yet. That's a good thought
to think about.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But why don't know your flight back. No, no, but
that's not a fair question.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
No. I mean it's a very visible thing, right, And
like I imagine that kids can be embarrassed about, you know,
anything their parents do, you know, like inflatables or things
like that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I got that word out with no problem. Didn't you
have a family member who stuttered? Yeah, my uncle stuttered.
And did they have children? No? No, no, didn't have children.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But that's the same gene pool like my dad. My
dad didn't stutter, but came from the same gene pool.
It didn't get passed down to me, although depending on
the show sometimes it sounds like it may have.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But did your grandfather then stutter? I don't know. He
was dead. Well, I never met uncle.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Think maybe he inherited it from.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I have no idea. Oh yeah, no, I don't know.
I wasn't that close with him. But uncle Jimi stuttered.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That was his real name, The the the But no,
But going back to what I was saying, I would
just think that, and I was I wasn't trying to
be mean, but like, listen, there are times that kids
don't want to have people over just because they're embarrassed
with their parents anyway, And I'm not saying they would
be embarrassed of you, but just not to open up
(13:37):
the door of like here's a reason to pick on us,
make fun of us, or whatever it is that them
because of your stutter.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But I would bet that goes on. Of course it does.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I I'm like, I was
aware that I stuttered, like like I'm all through grade school,
but but then I didn't actually care about it until
high school and then I kind of avoided situations I'm
(14:12):
in high school, but then I went to avoidance reduction
therapy in i'm high school in college, and then that
is kind of where I took that that growth, growth,
growth step. And then I found the National I'm Stuttering
(14:32):
Association in college and then that's been a great place,
you know, where the message is, uh, if you study,
you're not alone. And like if if if I'M one
(14:54):
of my kids does stutter, I'm gonna plug them right
into that I'M conference. And it is really cool to
I'm I'm to see the young kids there, like they
are so so confident at age like eight.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
That's awesome. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's it's the perfect spot.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So the in elementary school didn't. You didn't care.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
No, middle school, you didn't care like elementary school. I
could wrap my head around and go, like, you know what,
like kids are When I say young and dumb, I
don't mean they're stupid, but it's like whatever, Like we're
just if you could play like we're good. Yeah, but
like middle school starts to be like that transition period
where I would have thought that you would have said,
like middle school was no fun at all.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
But it seems like it was high school.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah. I was with the same same class of kids
from from from K to eight and then I went
to a I'm a private, I'm I'm all guys high school. Uh,
And so that's kind of where I was aware of
it at that point, but they weren't mean about it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Oh that's good, that's good. Yeah, that's good to hear.
That's good. Here, what percentage of the population stutters?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I think it's one percent, which sounds really high, actually,
but I think it sounds low.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I mean it's percent of the US population or global.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think global.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, well, one in one hundred, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Well, I mean when you put it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
One person on every metro tralaer.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I'm just gonna check that maut are there.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But is there categorically? Are there different levels of stuttering?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Oh yeah, I'm like, I'm more on the mild ish side.
I don't know, I might be moderate at this point.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh you ain't mild.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
If you recognize Elliot from high school?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, no, but I mean no, I guess at this
don't don't really care about it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I don't. I don't either. I don't either.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But if somebody said, hey, on the scale where you
put in Steve, I wouldn't have said you can barely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Tell like that to me? Is mild?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Okay? That is fair, that's that's a thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
But I have friends, uh uh, I'm in the National
Stuttering Association that it takes them a minute or two
to say, you know, hi, my name is whatever, right,
and and and and then in that moment you're just patient.
You allow them to, you know, make eye contact and
kind of work their way through.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And it's cool at the at the like at the
organization chapter meetings and at the conference, people are are
are I'm our I'm our am. I'm stuttering everywhere and
all the time, and people are really patient and will
(17:58):
listen and allow people to have the space to speak.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We finally get it, to get it at it's a
one day confidence that it takes a month.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Actually, I was at I'm Dick's uh uh last resort
restaurant a couple of years ago. I was there with
a group of people Who's who's Who's I'm who stutter
(18:27):
and we were like, okay, we are getting into this.
We're going to be the target of all the jokes.
But so there was U there was a friend who
was placing his order and the waiter was like, okay,
you keep going, what do you want here? And it
(18:48):
was amazing, which I mean that could you know, ruin
a person's day or week or whatever. But for us
as a part of the organization trying to feel I'm
pretty confident, I was like, okay, Like that was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When you do you and again, I hope this isn't
a dumb question. Do you stutter when you think?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
No?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
No?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So I kind of have to two trains of thought.
There's there's there's the content train and then the how
I Am going to talk side? And then I can
actually feel that I'm I'm going to stutter on an
upcoming word. And then so there are some people that
might try to change the word or find their way
(19:36):
around it or something. But then there's also people that
you know, if like yeah, uh, if you're going to
to to to to to stutter on a word, then
you can try to ease into it, or you can
do different methods to try to avoid stuttering, which I
don't really want to avoid that part almost, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So do you know when it's common?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I can tell when I'm going to stutter on
a future word. I mean, I'm surprised sometimes, but uh,
that's kind of a surprising thing that I know I'm
going to stutter on a on a word and then
try to change the word. I don't do that. I
really try to just power through.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
No, that's awesome. Does it ever have there ever been
cases of it?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Like if it starts when you're in elementary school or whatever,
are there ever cases where it goes away?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, Well, so there is a certain percentage of of
of of kids that stutter in their you know, young years,
and then most will grow I'm out of it, and
then I'm one of the lucky one percent that you know,
(20:51):
kept kept it around so.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That one percent though that like as adults, that that's
not going to go away.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
No, now that's it. I'm just Steve. Steve's stutter.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, dude, I wait, hold on one, say am I.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
The problem is Steve doesn't have any headphones the and
if these people are being dicks, they're not. Okay, Yeah,
well now Diane can here just stretch him real big
and go over both of your heads.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Hi Elli in the morning.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Hello, Hi, I was just wondering if it's sometimes when
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
By the way, real quick, real quick, real quick, I
should ask does it bother you?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
If I if people want to ask questions, are you okay?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, Steve doesn't care. Yes, go ahead, man.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
I was just wondering because I knew someone when we
were in class. If he started stuttering, he would start
to sing to get to finish getting out what he
wanted to say. If he heard of that, is that
a thing? Is that for real?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So it's uh, I'm like it's a left brain and
right brain thing, and so so on the creative side. Uh,
I can sing, I can rap. Uh, I'm perfectly uh.
And so there are like are some some uh. Some
some cases of people that take on a character or
(22:25):
something so that they don't stutter. Uh. So the yeah,
the the uh these these uh I'm these I'm these
uh these these these the uh. The story goes that
uh uh uh Marilyn Monroe used to stutter and she
(22:46):
would talk like this so that she wouldn't stutter.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But the way you should just do that all the time.
I don't see if you want to do that. So
you crush it at karaoke.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh yeah, Like I was at karaoke last night and
I I wanted to do a a like a a
I'm Weird al Yankovic rap.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I love the idea of you getting up on a
karaoke stage and addressing the crowd and people going like,
oh crap, what.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Are we in for? But then the singing part of
it is just perfect, flawless. Just let me grab line one.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Hi Elliot in the morning, Hey class, good morning, good morning,
Hey how are you first?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
I'm good.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
First.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I want to go out on him and say he
sounds confident in himself, and I think he's gonna totally
gloss over your issue with the.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Kids that you mentioned earlier. Yeah, he becomes like he's
going to raise his kids to where there I.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Didn't have dumb Steve, can you cuss? Does that just
come right in? Wait, hold on one second.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Now, I have a real question is does that just
come out like words that you wouldn't normally say?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I would say that if like like like it's an
emphatic like bad like I can uh, I can do
that pretty well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I would get hugged. My luck. I did hung up
on the word. I'm all I want to do is
tell you to f off. But I need ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, but I would, I would agree. I would agree
with him. You are very confident. Cool, you are very
very very confident. And I'll point that out when I
host the Q and A at the Convention Hill in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Hey is this me? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Who's this?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
This is Sydney from Mechanics shill, Yeah, real quick?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What can I do for you?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (24:54):
When I was younger in elementary, I was stuttering and
they used to take me out of class and take
me to the library for an hour's worth. So what
the teacher did was taught me how to use a
catch word. And I would start at every sentence with
one word and it worked. So My word was but so,
but how old are you? But where are we going?
(25:17):
But how Hew's dinner? So I used that word and
that kept used that my whole life when I'm seventy
years old today.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh wow, nut, Steve, you were nodding, Well, that is
that a common what's the word.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That I'm looking for? Technique?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, technique or I don't want to say trick, but
something that that is taught.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is that common? Hey? Thank you sir.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, I would actually I specifically call it, I'm a trick.
I'm actually I'm I say the word and uh to
kind of just get moving, which is not super on purpose.
It's just kind of what my body's trying to do.
It's it's i'm a habit. I'm at this point. Yeah,
(26:00):
people do that all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Because at first I thought he was, say he got
taken out of the classroom so it wouldn't be disruptive.
But that's a teacher that was legitimately trying to or
it sounds like a teacher that was legitimately trying to help.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, trying to help.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Wow, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. All right, So you're going
back home in a couple hours. Yeah, all right, very good.
Do you want a shirt?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I have one, Blacker cameo.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
All right, very good, dude. I'm glad you came in.
I'm glad you came in.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
That's a great kind of you.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Hopefully this wasn't like the opposite of avoidance reduction therapy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, this was great. Well you kept talking about tips
and tricks to help him. Well, no, not to help him.
What trick did I used to help him?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Well, you didn't use anything unless you like the I
use them a lot to get going on realizing that
you have your own No. I meant a lot of
people brought up strategies, but that's sort of what we learned.
Is the point of avoidance reduction therapy, right, it's not
maybe hiding it, it's just being able to live with it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I thought I was good. Oh yeah, yeah,
thank you, thank you. I didn't jump. I only jumped
in a couple of times where I was like, I
gotta get off at some point today. But yeah, no,
other than that. Oh, and I argued that you're mild
I did argue that
Is she allowed to be here? Are you allowed?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I don't know why you're here, well, I mean other
than visiting, But are you here on official business or anything?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're just a regular person. Come here if you don't mind.
Steve is here from Denver. Yeah, stop them for a visit.
I just got all that snow the oh that's right, yeah,
get right up on that. You're cool that you're in here,
right sir? Yeah, of course the How bad was the
(00:29):
snow when you were flying out?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I missed it?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Are you serious?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So I came out here. I'm on Monday. I'm I mean,
it was seventy and then it's snowed. Then it's Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
They're supposed to get back.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Up till like seventy five this weekend. Yeah, yeah, no,
it's supposed to so you totally miss it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What are you going back.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
In a couple hours. My flight's at four? Oh oh oh, all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Right, well, good seeing you. Thanks for stopping by. What
were you What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Did you just come to visit? I'm on a on
business trip.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh okay, I got you. Good for you? Good for you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hey, can I can I ask you some and I
and I hope that I didn't I knew that you
were coming by today.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I didn't know when you were coming by. The I
was gonna I was you know who Billie Eilish is, right, Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The I was reading something about her yesterday, and if
it's unfair to link the two together, let me know,
right the so I was reading something about her yesterday.
She has Tourette's and she has tics, and so she
was talking about she did an interview. I don't remember
who it was with, but she did an interview that
where she was talking about During interviews or during like
(01:43):
very public things, she has to focus really really hard
on suppression, where like she'll hold her arms a certain
way so that you can't see her her hands.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Tick or you know whatever whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know what all of Billie Eilish's ticks are
is is the stuttering and and if and I'm not
trying to be mean, so if if, if the two
of them are so far apart, are there is there
a suppression that goes on in the world of stuttering.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It can be yeah, so uh there so the uh
so this so the actual core base, uh I'm stutter
is actually like I'm a I'm a i'm a I'm
a i'm a small i'm elongation. But then lots of
the things that you see as i'm as as it's
(02:36):
a a stutter our avoidance uh behaviors, And so I
might might might might say that as a way to
try to not stutter, but it makes it more obvious.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, wait, the avoidance behavior makes it more obvious like
reverse psychology.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, oh, but then it didn't work on me. Well,
like so uh, it's it's a way to to try
to like force yourself through the the the pause, right,
but but then that that that trick might might work
for a bit, but then you know, you have to
bob your head and then you have to tap your arm,
and then you have to repeat or say or like
(03:16):
or something. I got And so I actually went through
avoidance or a reduction on therapy where you you just
have have to have to have to practice I'm feeling
the shame of of of of stuttering. Uh, and then
that can help you live a normal life.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I don't, I mean, I this is weird.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No, no, no, like I I like that, like I
like that there's therapy for it and stuff, But I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I don't like that you have to that. I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I don't like how the phrasing is where where it
is like you you have to learn to accept the
shame of it, like I don't. I don't like that
part of it.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Like I don't im you shouldn't you shouldn't feel shame
for it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, but you just kind of naturally do. But then
you want to kind of work your way through and
pass the shame.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Right, So like, but you don't feel any shame from it.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
No, I've I have have definitely gained gained confidence over
the last fifteen twenty years of being in therapy and
then just living a normal life, right. So, like there
were times back in therapy where I would call up
a pizza place and then fake fake stutter until they
(04:32):
said like like hey man, I gotta go. It's it's
a busy time, and then they and then they would
just hang up and hang up, and then like you
kind of feel that wash of shame and then it's like,
but I didn't die, Great, I can process this now.
And then so doing that and just being more comfortable,
(04:53):
then now I can talk on the radio. Now I
call in every couple of months or yea.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
By the way, you do a much more job than
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Like I'm all over the place the but so wait,
but go back for a second. So you would call
a pizza place and try to order, just try to
make a regular order.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And then they stutter?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But how and again I don't I'm I'm not trying
to be mean. I don't understand. How do you fake stutter?
Like I feel like if I were, don't get mad
at me. But if I called a pizza place, it
was like, I, I'm fake stuttering.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You're not fake stuttering. You're stuttering.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I can real stutter or I can good, good good
go like that that actually turned real a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I was gonna say I caught it at the end.
I caught it at the end. You couldn't fool me. Sorry,
it's a busy time. I have to go.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But but why why would you? Why would you fake stutter?
Because don't you know that you're going to eventually stutter?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah? I think I can kind of turn up the
heat a bit bit more and I can make the
stutter really bad.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It takes like it gives your power over it. Right, Yeah,
that's it really?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Uh, I will.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's my new bit. I call out every time it's
fake or real, that was real, I think, Okay, that's
the bit. No, No, but I don't I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't understand how there's there's power over it by
by faking.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It, I will always stutter, and so, uh, you know,
I can accept that that fact, and then I can
kind of uh be okay with stuttering and not I'm
trying to hide it or try to avoid it. And
so that's how I've gotten comfortable with it over the
last couple of years. And then I give talks in
front of people. Now I am part of the National
(06:45):
Stuttering Association, and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I remember that, like you travel around and you'll do
conferences and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's why I didn't know if you were in d
C doing a conference. No.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So then there's an annual conference each year. And then
I made a couple of recommendations a couple of years ago,
and and then now I'm in charge of of of
of production and programming for the conference. Are you really
that's great? Yeah? And so our next conference is coming
(07:15):
up the first first first week of of of of July.
And I'm Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Do you want me to host the Q and a.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Of course you can't laugh though that's kind of a rule.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I can't do it kind of a rule.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But now so so let me ask you, this is
is one of the like when you were growing up,
like when did you start to have?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You always started You've always.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Had three or four or something.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Like when you were growing up, I'm sure you had
friends that were awesome and it was like whatever, no
big deal, everything's fine. And then I'm sure that there
that there were dicks you went to school with and
that's gonna happen and you know that the but like
the people that you were close with, don't they always
say one of the and I'm not a good rule follower,
but don't they say, like, don't try to jump in
(08:09):
and finish somebody's thoughts or finish somebody's sentences, like just
give it a moment, it's coming.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yep, exactly, yeah, right, okay, yeah, And there's been times
where people trying to help it and they try to guess,
you know, what I'm going to say, and then they
keep guessing wrong words. Now, no, not either, but it's
it's it's it's it's a like a genetic brain brain
(08:35):
thing actually, and so if I'm trying to say a
phrase and I just can't say that one word, I
can actually kind of like take a like side pause,
and so I'll be like like I'm at this, Wow,
I cannot say studio right, Like right, it's a brain thing.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
But so okay, so genetic in that way, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's not like my my younger kid at at at
Miami of Ohio. They have a really really good friend
who's who's a stutterer, and they're awesome. They're they're great
with them and everything's fine, and his friend group is
awesome and every everything, everything is good. But is it
when you said genetic, is it passed It's not passed down.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
It can be passed down yet, can it really?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No, kid?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yes, I have two kids, and and I imagine that
one might's might might stutter at some point I'm in
their lives.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And then eighty percent of people who's who's who's I'm,
who's I'm who's who's stutter? Are guys? Actually, so my
son has a higher chance of stuttering.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Do you have I'm assuming the two kids wants a boy,
one girl and boy.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, so the boy eighty percent of stutters are males,
no kidding?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And what is the what.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Is the percentage of if your parents stuttered, stutters you're
going to stutter?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Oh I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I imagine pretty high.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Did your parents stutter?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, I don't know who uh uh uh I'm in
my family stuttered, but uh there there could be some
you know, long lost uncle or grandpa or something who
who didn't really participate in the in the in the
family because because he kind of held held himself back
because he didn't want to stutter in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I'm really excited that I have now kind of passed
through the shame portion and now I'm just a guy.
That's that's that stutters out. I'm in the world and
I can confidently raise a family, have a job.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Hey, can I ask you that? How old?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
If you if you don't want to say, you don't
have to, how old are your kids?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I have a a I'm a I'm a I'm a
three year old and eighteen month old son.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh, okay, I got you. I don't know why I
thought that yeah was older and okay, well done. Maybe
he don't want to say.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Maybe I guess I can say now we have I'm
a third I'm on the way to dude. That's awesome. Yeah,
that's a Do you know.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
If it's a boy? Have you? Do you know if
it's a boy or no? Right, no, you'll find out later.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
The So the the eighteen month old, obviously you said
would have a better chance of of stuttering than that. No,
but I was gonna say they're not, they're not old
enough yet. But I was wondering, like you talk about
going through therapy and having shame, I don't. I don't
know what age you met your your wife and got
(11:43):
married and stuff. But do you do you get concerned
at all that it's going to bother your kids. Not
not so much that it'll bother them that their dad's stutters,
but it will be concerning for them. And maybe you
know this from going around and talking to other people
where it's like I don't want to bring my friends
over to the house, Like I don't want I don't
(12:05):
want my friends to be a dick to me because
my dad stutters?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Like does that? Does that ever go on?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I haven't thought about that yet. That's a good thought
to think about.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But why don't know your flight back. No, no, but
that's not a fair question.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
No. I mean it's a very visible thing, right, And
like I imagine that kids can be embarrassed about, you know,
anything their parents do, you know, like inflatables or things
like that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I got that word out with no problem. Didn't you
have a family member who stuttered? Yeah, my uncle stuttered.
And did they have children? No? No, no, didn't have children.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But that's the same gene pool like my dad. My
dad didn't stutter, but came from the same gene pool.
It didn't get passed down to me, although depending on
the show sometimes it sounds like it may have.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But did your grandfather then stutter? I don't know. He
was dead. Well, I never met uncle.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Think maybe he inherited it from.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I have no idea. Oh yeah, no, I don't know.
I wasn't that close with him. But uncle Jimi stuttered.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That was his real name, The the the But no,
But going back to what I was saying, I would
just think that, and I was I wasn't trying to
be mean, but like, listen, there are times that kids
don't want to have people over just because they're embarrassed
with their parents anyway, And I'm not saying they would
be embarrassed of you, but just not to open up
(13:37):
the door of like here's a reason to pick on us,
make fun of us, or whatever it is that them
because of your stutter.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But I would bet that goes on. Of course it does.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I I'm like, I was
aware that I stuttered, like like I'm all through grade school,
but but then I didn't actually care about it until
high school and then I kind of avoided situations I'm
(14:12):
in high school, but then I went to avoidance reduction
therapy in i'm high school in college, and then that
is kind of where I took that that growth, growth,
growth step. And then I found the National I'm Stuttering
(14:32):
Association in college and then that's been a great place,
you know, where the message is, uh, if you study,
you're not alone. And like if if if I'M one
(14:54):
of my kids does stutter, I'm gonna plug them right
into that I'M conference. And it is really cool to
I'm I'm to see the young kids there, like they
are so so confident at age like eight.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
That's awesome. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's it's the perfect spot.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So the in elementary school didn't. You didn't care.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
No, middle school, you didn't care like elementary school. I
could wrap my head around and go, like, you know what,
like kids are When I say young and dumb, I
don't mean they're stupid, but it's like whatever, Like we're
just if you could play like we're good. Yeah, but
like middle school starts to be like that transition period
where I would have thought that you would have said,
like middle school was no fun at all.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
But it seems like it was high school.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah. I was with the same same class of kids
from from from K to eight and then I went
to a I'm a private, I'm I'm all guys high school. Uh,
And so that's kind of where I was aware of
it at that point, but they weren't mean about it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Oh that's good, that's good. Yeah, that's good to hear.
That's good. Here, what percentage of the population stutters?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I think it's one percent, which sounds really high, actually,
but I think it sounds low.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I mean it's percent of the US population or global.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think global.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, well, one in one hundred, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Well, I mean when you put it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
One person on every metro tralaer.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I'm just gonna check that maut are there.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But is there categorically? Are there different levels of stuttering?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Oh yeah, I'm like, I'm more on the mild ish side.
I don't know, I might be moderate at this point.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh you ain't mild.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
If you recognize Elliot from high school?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, no, but I mean no, I guess at this
don't don't really care about it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I don't. I don't either. I don't either.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But if somebody said, hey, on the scale where you
put in Steve, I wouldn't have said you can barely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Tell like that to me? Is mild?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Okay? That is fair, that's that's a thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
But I have friends, uh uh, I'm in the National
Stuttering Association that it takes them a minute or two
to say, you know, hi, my name is whatever, right,
and and and and then in that moment you're just patient.
You allow them to, you know, make eye contact and
kind of work their way through.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And it's cool at the at the like at the
organization chapter meetings and at the conference, people are are
are I'm our I'm our am. I'm stuttering everywhere and
all the time, and people are really patient and will
(17:58):
listen and allow people to have the space to speak.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We finally get it, to get it at it's a
one day confidence that it takes a month.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Actually, I was at I'm Dick's uh uh last resort
restaurant a couple of years ago. I was there with
a group of people Who's who's Who's I'm who stutter
(18:27):
and we were like, okay, we are getting into this.
We're going to be the target of all the jokes.
But so there was U there was a friend who
was placing his order and the waiter was like, okay,
you keep going, what do you want here? And it
(18:48):
was amazing, which I mean that could you know, ruin
a person's day or week or whatever. But for us
as a part of the organization trying to feel I'm
pretty confident, I was like, okay, Like that was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When you do you and again, I hope this isn't
a dumb question. Do you stutter when you think?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
No?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
No?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So I kind of have to two trains of thought.
There's there's there's the content train and then the how
I Am going to talk side? And then I can
actually feel that I'm I'm going to stutter on an
upcoming word. And then so there are some people that
might try to change the word or find their way
(19:36):
around it or something. But then there's also people that
you know, if like yeah, uh, if you're going to
to to to to to stutter on a word, then
you can try to ease into it, or you can
do different methods to try to avoid stuttering, which I
don't really want to avoid that part almost, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So do you know when it's common?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I can tell when I'm going to stutter on
a future word. I mean, I'm surprised sometimes, but uh,
that's kind of a surprising thing that I know I'm
going to stutter on a on a word and then
try to change the word. I don't do that. I
really try to just power through.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
No, that's awesome. Does it ever have there ever been
cases of it?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Like if it starts when you're in elementary school or whatever,
are there ever cases where it goes away?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, Well, so there is a certain percentage of of
of of kids that stutter in their you know, young years,
and then most will grow I'm out of it, and
then I'm one of the lucky one percent that you know,
(20:51):
kept kept it around so.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That one percent though that like as adults, that that's
not going to go away.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
No, now that's it. I'm just Steve. Steve's stutter.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, dude, I wait, hold on one, say am I.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
The problem is Steve doesn't have any headphones the and
if these people are being dicks, they're not. Okay, Yeah,
well now Diane can here just stretch him real big
and go over both of your heads.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Hi Elli in the morning.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Hello, Hi, I was just wondering if it's sometimes when
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
By the way, real quick, real quick, real quick, I
should ask does it bother you?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
If I if people want to ask questions, are you okay?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, Steve doesn't care. Yes, go ahead, man.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
I was just wondering because I knew someone when we
were in class. If he started stuttering, he would start
to sing to get to finish getting out what he
wanted to say. If he heard of that, is that
a thing? Is that for real?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So it's uh, I'm like it's a left brain and
right brain thing, and so so on the creative side. Uh,
I can sing, I can rap. Uh, I'm perfectly uh.
And so there are like are some some uh. Some
some cases of people that take on a character or
(22:25):
something so that they don't stutter. Uh. So the yeah,
the the uh these these uh I'm these I'm these
uh these these these the uh. The story goes that
uh uh uh Marilyn Monroe used to stutter and she
(22:46):
would talk like this so that she wouldn't stutter.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But the way you should just do that all the time.
I don't see if you want to do that. So
you crush it at karaoke.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh yeah, Like I was at karaoke last night and
I I wanted to do a a like a a
I'm Weird al Yankovic rap.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I love the idea of you getting up on a
karaoke stage and addressing the crowd and people going like,
oh crap, what.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Are we in for? But then the singing part of
it is just perfect, flawless. Just let me grab line one.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Hi Elliot in the morning, Hey class, good morning, good morning,
Hey how are you first?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
I'm good.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
First.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I want to go out on him and say he
sounds confident in himself, and I think he's gonna totally
gloss over your issue with the.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Kids that you mentioned earlier. Yeah, he becomes like he's
going to raise his kids to where there I.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Didn't have dumb Steve, can you cuss? Does that just
come right in? Wait, hold on one second.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Now, I have a real question is does that just
come out like words that you wouldn't normally say?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I would say that if like like like it's an
emphatic like bad like I can uh, I can do
that pretty well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I would get hugged. My luck. I did hung up
on the word. I'm all I want to do is
tell you to f off. But I need ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, but I would, I would agree. I would agree
with him. You are very confident. Cool, you are very
very very confident. And I'll point that out when I
host the Q and A at the Convention Hill in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Hey is this me? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Who's this?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
This is Sydney from Mechanics shill, Yeah, real quick?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What can I do for you?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (24:54):
When I was younger in elementary, I was stuttering and
they used to take me out of class and take
me to the library for an hour's worth. So what
the teacher did was taught me how to use a
catch word. And I would start at every sentence with
one word and it worked. So My word was but so,
but how old are you? But where are we going?
(25:17):
But how Hew's dinner? So I used that word and
that kept used that my whole life when I'm seventy
years old today.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh wow, nut, Steve, you were nodding, Well, that is
that a common what's the word.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That I'm looking for? Technique?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, technique or I don't want to say trick, but
something that that is taught.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is that common? Hey? Thank you sir.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, I would actually I specifically call it, I'm a trick.
I'm actually I'm I say the word and uh to
kind of just get moving, which is not super on purpose.
It's just kind of what my body's trying to do.
It's it's i'm a habit. I'm at this point. Yeah,
(26:00):
people do that all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Because at first I thought he was, say he got
taken out of the classroom so it wouldn't be disruptive.
But that's a teacher that was legitimately trying to or
it sounds like a teacher that was legitimately trying to help.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, trying to help.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Wow, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. All right, So you're going
back home in a couple hours. Yeah, all right, very good.
Do you want a shirt?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I have one, Blacker cameo.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
All right, very good, dude. I'm glad you came in.
I'm glad you came in.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
That's a great kind of you.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Hopefully this wasn't like the opposite of avoidance reduction therapy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, this was great. Well you kept talking about tips
and tricks to help him. Well, no, not to help him.
What trick did I used to help him?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Well, you didn't use anything unless you like the I
use them a lot to get going on realizing that
you have your own No. I meant a lot of
people brought up strategies, but that's sort of what we learned.
Is the point of avoidance reduction therapy, right, it's not
maybe hiding it, it's just being able to live with it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I thought I was good. Oh yeah, yeah,
thank you, thank you. I didn't jump. I only jumped
in a couple of times where I was like, I
gotta get off at some point today. But yeah, no,
other than that. Oh, and I argued that you're mild
I did argue that
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