In a recent episode of the RJ. Harris Breakfast Show, Attorney General Dave Sunday joined the conversation to discuss the implications of the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court's ruling on skill games. These games, often found in bars and social clubs, have been a topic of debate in the state, with some viewing them as a form of entertainment and others seeing them as a threat to public safety.
The Attorney General's office has been working to regulate these games, which are often referred to as slot machines, but with a twist - they require skill to play. The Supreme Court's ruling has given the legislature 120 days to come up with a solution, and if no legislation is passed, the Attorney General's office will have to assess the situation and determine how to proceed.
The Attorney General emphasized the importance of regulating these games, citing concerns about consumer protection, community safety, and the potential for addiction. He also highlighted the need for clear laws that can adapt to technological advancements and nuances in the industry. With over 70,000 of these games in operation throughout Pennsylvania, the task of regulation will be a significant one.
If you're interested in learning more about the implications of this ruling and the potential consequences for the state, tune in to this episode of the RJ. Harris Breakfast Show to hear the Attorney General's thoughts on the matter and what it means for the people of Pennsylvania.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Episode Transcript
Eight thirty six, twenty four to go until nine o'clock
the RJ. Harris Breakfast Show. And I want to welcome
back to the Breakfast Show the Attorney General of the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Dave Sunday. Good morning, sir. How are
you today?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good morning, RJ. I'm doing wonderful. Thank you, and it's
great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's great to have you back. And I think I
saw on Facebook that you had a great Father's day.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I will tell you RJ, that the greatest blessing in
my life is to be a husband and a father,
and anytime I have with my son is really the
best time I could possibly ask for.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So Amen, there you go. Amen, that sounds good.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
The reason that we wanted to have you on is
the State Supreme Court ruled that the games of skill
are actually you know, the slot machines and has given
a legislator x amount of time to come up with
legislation to you know, tax it. What we want to
(01:09):
know is on this timeline, if for some reason the
legislature doesn't get the job done and a bill and
and a budget signed by the governor, where does that
leave you in terms of enforcing the fact that they're
now illegal.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, thank you for asking that question, RJ.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And you know, a couple of things to start with.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, there are I believe close to seventy thousand
of these skill games throughout Pennsylvania, and so you know,
this litigation has been ongoing for years. You know, the
law back in twenty seventeen, the Gaming Act was amended,
(01:55):
and part of the amendment included changing the definition of
a slotmansh to include a skill slot machine or a
hybrid slot machine. And so I think it's important for
listeners to understand that this wasn't something that just you know,
ap peered out.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Of thin air.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
This has been around for probably close to a decade.
And so with that being said, you have all of
that time worth of.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Installing these machines.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
People utilizing them, obviously, and you know there's a lot
of reasons why machines of this nature the legislature said
need to be regulated. So, with all that being said,
to your point, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court they ruled and
they gave the legislature one hundred and twenty days to
pass the law to regulate skill games in the manner
(02:49):
that the legislature sees fit.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So if one hundred and.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Twenty days goes by and there is no you know, legislation,
then and that really leaves the Attorney General's office and
the Pennsylvania State Police and any other law enforcement agencies
in a position where we're just going to have to
assess it, make our determination, and we will apply the law.
And it's as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
When you say we will have to assess it, does
that mean how to get your arms around policing seventy
one thousand games?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yes, yes, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean when you look at so to begin with
police and prosecutors, I mean, we're a finite a finite resource,
and we're you know, and we're at a place where
you know, obviously we know that, you know, police are understaffed,
and it's just the world we.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Live in, right.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
But that being said, we get the job done and
we always have and we always will. And when I
say assess it, what I mean is how are we
going to get the job done? How are we going
to do it in a manner that's real and fair.
But at the end of the day, every law enforcement officer,
every prosecutor, every deputy Attorney general, we all took an.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Oath to uphold the law.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And so when you're looking at something as massive as this,
obviously it's going to take some strategy. It's going to
take sharing of resources, and it's going to take a
lot of time and energy.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Does that strategy begin now, in other words, are you
looking at the situation or does it begin day one?
In other words, you know, the day after the moratorium
runs out.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
No, Like like anything else, that's a potential, that's a
potential challenge for us.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
We assess it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Long before we hit that point. And so you know,
obviously I don't want to go into specific details right
now with regard to I'll say the investigative process and
the methods that.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
We will utilize. But what I will say is if after.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
One hundred and twenty days there is no legislation to
regulate these games, then they are out of compliance skill games,
and we will do our job.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And when you say do your job, I can't imagine
that they're legally there's a difference between On the Carlisle Pike,
there's a skills game and that's all they do. They're
open twenty four hours a day, and I see people
going in and out pretty much all the time. Are
they different than a VFW or they're all on the
(05:35):
same plane.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Every single skill game is in the exact same legal situation,
every single one. Be them in a large facility, or
be them, be it two skill games in the middle
of nowhere in a shack. These are skill games. And
in Pennsylvania, our legislature made the decision to regulate gaming.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
In Pennsylvania, And.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Like any other statute that exists, our laws are the
will of the people, as exhibited through.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
The ballot box. When you elect your.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Legislators, you're putting them there for a reason. And me,
as Attorney General, my job is to enforce and protect
those laws and so and I know our ja.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You are well aware of that.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
But I'm just sharing because I think sometimes in today's world,
where you know, people you.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Know are kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Eating, living and breathing on the internet or in places
that aren't quite on point, it's nice. It's important to
pull people back to reality and remind them about the
way that government works.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I had a question about the age restrictions because skill
games do you have to be You have to be eighteen.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
To play them, So any gambling device in Pennsylvania, you
have to be eighteen to play them, yes, and so
I'm sorry, go ahead, no.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
So I guess it's a follow question because in casinos
you have to be twenty one.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Well, plus these are not regulated yet, correct, So.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I would assume that that's going to change too, right.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Oh, yes, absolutely so, and remember their opinion and I
apologize twenty one. Thank you for correcting me there. But
the reality is that the Supreme Court's order is stayed
for one hundred and twenty days. So basically they said,
this is our order and in one hundred and twenty
days this order will go into effect. And so essentially
(07:35):
the Supreme Court gave the legislature what four months to
come up with a solution so that the entire system
wasn't hit immediately with the confusing nature of the enforcement.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, that's good for the clubs in particular. Okay, absolutely.
I want to get back to something that Holly asked about, though,
and that is the eighteen the age limit. And you
said any gambling device. Is that yet another law? Because
if the skill games are not regulated, why would they
(08:10):
have to make sure somebody's over eighteen? Is that a
separate law?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So, because prior to this ruling, there was confusion on
this issue. You know, the community didn't really understand how
to view skill games under that lens. And so the
simple takeaway is, prior to this ruling, they were just devices.
(08:41):
I mean, well some people, they were viewed through some
people as just being a device that people could go
play on essentially. And so this, I mean, this ruling
is really really important because, you know, to begin with, like,
the whole reason why our legislature has chosen.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
To regulate gaming is to.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Promote consumer protection and community safety. I mean, these are
cash businesses and criminal elements historically have used these types
of businesses to fund their criminal enterprises. And in addition
to that, ensuring that these are regulated that ensures, like
I said, consumer protection.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
But it's also the.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Protection of children, and it ensures that the profits, you know,
aren't used to fuel things that they shouldn't be. I mean,
there's a million reasons why the legislature decided to regulate gaming,
and you know, I think it's important for people to.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Understand that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Our laws, like, when our laws are written, they can't
always contemplate every nuance, every nuance or technological advancement and
things of that nature, Right, and so and so. You
know a lot of organizations or humans. I mean, it's
(10:06):
it's it's human nature to try to, you know, advance
your business and do it in a way that you
know is in accordance with the law and puts you
in a position for success. And the reality is there
are times where it becomes confusing. And we're looking.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
At here, these skill games.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I mean you can ask I mean, anyone, I'm sure
you've seen them. I mean, ask the normal citizen to
take a look at them and go play them, and
then ask them if they can tell a difference between
whether or not it is a quote unquote skill game
versus a slot machine.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Now it's a slot machine, I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And the other part of this is you have to remember,
I mean, think about one of the main reasons we've
even talked about with regard to regulating games of this nature,
it's the addictive nature. And and there are tons of
regulations around the gaming industry where the gaming industry collaborates
(11:04):
with regulators to help people to not become addicted and
to help get them into treatment if they're addicted. And
what we have seen is this this thing that was
out there that was not beholden to any of the
expectations and rules that our legislature has created for the
(11:25):
protection of the community. Gotch Now, I will tell you
that clearly as a I mean, I'm a veteran. We've
talked about this before many times. I'm a member of
the VFW, I'm a.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Member of the American.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Legion, and you know, no one wants to see those storied,
important organizations be harmed, right, And so that's where the
next step becomes talking to your legislators, having that conversation,
because I have no doubt that they will be able
to work together to come up with a solution.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
All right, Attorney General Dave Sunday, we're out of time,
but we'll have you on again soon. I always enjoy it,
and thank you for explaining it very concise, very important knowledge,
and we'll meet up with you soon.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Thank you, my friend. Having a wonderful day you too.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Take care. It is eight forty eight
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