March 24, 2026 • 9 mins
Senator Dawn Keefer talk about eliminating property tax. How does it work? RJ and Senator Keefer break down everything you need to know.
Dawn Wetzel Keefer is currently serving as the Pennsylvania State Senator for the 31st District.
Dawn Wetzel Keefer is currently serving as the Pennsylvania State Senator for the 31st District.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you from the balcon of my hot you're listening
to the news radio w HP five eighty and we
welcome back to the show and happy to do with stage.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Senator Don Keefer, Good morning, senator. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
R J?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm doing well as well. Thanks for answering me. Well, listen,
the reason I wanted to have you on is to
talk about property tax reform AMN, So tell tell us
what you have in mind.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So this is a plan. My colleague Frank Ryan, who
came into the house with me, had drafted the initial
framework and most of the bones of this plan, and
then he retired two sessions ago now and I picked
it up. I asked, you know, hey, would he work
with me on it and pick it up? And so
(00:51):
I carried it in the house. Last session was just
trying to get all the words together, and then this
session is just educating my colleague Wendy think and how
has the sister bill to this so it would eliminate
school property taxes.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So I'm sorry, go ahead, okay, but it's a shift
right because it's about fifteen oy, it's about seventeen point
five billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That's the local property tax share collected currently, So we're
trying to replace that revenue. So we shift, we eliminate
the school property tax, the big one that comes in
the fall, and it shifts to an increased income tax
and sales tax.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So let's talk about that first and foremost. We're talking
about school property tax. Does it affect the taxes that
you get from other government agencies?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, So the county tax, that's the other property tax,
bigger one that you get that's in the spring. That's
the small one. Though it does not because you can't
do them both in the same bill Constitutionally, you'd have
to pay a constitutional action to change the actual county
tax property tax. So right now, it's just a school
(02:06):
property tax.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay. So, by the way, I was going to say,
Frank Ryan is a good friend and a good friend
of the show. We love Frank Ryan, and we know
that he's a brilliant man when it comes to the numbers.
So just to get that in there. But you talked
about income tax and sales tax going up, so outline
that forest, please.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So income tax would go up by one point eight
eight percent, So that would bring her our income tax
up to four point eight eight percent, and that income
tax would be applied to all income now, so currently
we don't apply it to any kind of retirement income
or pensions. That would expand now, so the income tax
(02:50):
the four point four point ninety five that would be
on everything. So, but on all your retirement income as well,
except for Social Security, military, and if you haven't paid
into Social Security, none of those would be taxed.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, So social Security is out. But if you're getting
money from an IRA, you're going to be taxed on it.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yes, a roth IRA, don't but an IRA yes, okay,
only only the portion you haven't So in Pennsylvania we're
different from most states. Pennsylvania, we do not tax. We
tax pensions in the on the front side of it. Okay,
we don't tax on your earnings on the backside of it.
Most states tax. You don't tax on the front side.
(03:35):
They taxed on the backside when you're actually pulling out
of it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay. So like the roth IRA, I I have a
roth IRA and I've already paid tax. So you're saying
that social Security and the roth portion of my i
RA would not be taxed, correct, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Neither would military. Uh, neither would if you haven't paid
into it. So it's some some civil service, railroad retire
these teachers I believe who retired before nineteen ninety, state police,
none of those pay into Social Security, so those tensions
would not be taxed.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Now you talked about sales tax going up.
We're currently at six percent. What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So that would go up to eight percent, and that
would be collected at the county level. At the county level,
so the revenue would be earmarked for the county level,
so that would get disseminated out back to the counties
and then they would drive it out per pupil basis.
The only thing we expand it to is clothing, gum
(04:41):
and candy.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Clothing, gum and candy. Okay. Now let me ask you
about the eight percent again though, So you're saying, if
I'm hearing you correctly, that our sales tax will go
from two to eight percent and include clothing, gum, and candy,
but that extra two percent would go to the counties,
(05:04):
and the counties would use that to take away our
county property tax. Am I hearing them?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
No? No, no, no, okay, that's just to drive it
back to those schools. So what are the issues that
we've had, Because Argie's been around for a while, we've
had property tax bills you know, come and go, right,
And one of the big sticking points for seventy six,
which was the last effort we had with this, was
that they didn't trust the state to give back the
(05:31):
local school districts their fair share. We don't get it now,
especially in our area, right, So they we want to
put in a mechanism in there to make sure the
additional dollars that are being collected are driven back out
from the areas that they were collected. Gotcha, right, to
make sure you're getting from your fair share. So that
additional one point eight eight collected at the school district level.
(05:53):
The two percent is collected at the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
County level, gotcha, So it goes back to the people
who paid the money. Correct, Okay, very good.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, just to clarify that the additional two percent
on clothing, gum and candy, it doesn't move that to
eight percent, it's just two percent. The reason we just
need it for the money to work.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Okay. So in other words, right now we're not paying
tax on clothing rather than pay eight percent, we will
pay two percent, which is the increase rather than the
whole amount. Okay, gotcha. Well, the the pushback that you're
hearing right away, I'm sure is taxing quote unquote taxing retirement.
(06:36):
That's what I've heard already. But the way you outline
it it, uh, you know, I think people think you're
going to tax everything.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
True, But the other thing is, so the retirement is
I knew, we knew would be the big you know,
retirement would be the big issue. But first of all,
we are a destination state for retirees. We just got
an independent Fiscal Office report on our aging demographics. That's
the largest growing demographic that we have is the sixty
(07:06):
five and plus and then the eighty plus. Those are growing.
Our working population are decreasing, declining, We have out migration,
and we have to do something to stop the bleed
on that. So shifting to this would make us less
desirable to retiring. Number one. Number two is, you know,
(07:28):
while people don't like that, hey, don't touch my pension.
Don't touch my pension, you're using most of them are
using their pensions to pay their property taxes.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, yeah, that's true. Well here's why we're retired. You know,
we would be retired, right, so you're paying your property
tax off of whatever it is that you're getting really correct, so.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And so right now with this bill, what we're doing
is we're just trying to get around across the state
and just educate, right to get the information out to people,
let them see how the plan works. And then most
of the town halls that we're holding on this are
just kind of a firing squad asking questions, how would
it impact? What about this? What about that? And there
is a website we have it's called no prop Dot Tax,
(08:16):
and people can go to that website. They can plug
in their numbers and see how the plan would actually
impact them. Eighty percent of Pennsylvania's will make out better
on this plan than the current situation. And there's that
twenty percent that don't. And if you don't go it
also on that calculator, it'll tell you how many years
(08:37):
it would take you to break either even given the
fact that our on average, your school property taxes go
up year over year about four percent on average.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
All right, more I have to bail on you. But
I wonder, Senator, if you would give us that website again.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, no prop dot pax.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
No prop no NOPRP dot tax correct. Okay, good website
for it, that's for sure. All right. Well, uh, Senator
Don Keefer, thank you for putting on the fight. It'll
be interesting to see how it rolls out and what
people think as you go along.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Absolutely, thank you, Arja.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You're welcome. Take care, Senator Don Keefer. Eight forty six
News Radio WHP five eighty powered from the lb smith
Ford Lincoln Studios. Hey, it's r. J. Harris. Not everybody
is comfortable.
Thank you from the balcon of my hot you're listening
to the news radio w HP five eighty and we
welcome back to the show and happy to do with stage.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Senator Don Keefer, Good morning, senator. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
R J?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm doing well as well. Thanks for answering me. Well, listen,
the reason I wanted to have you on is to
talk about property tax reform AMN, So tell tell us
what you have in mind.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So this is a plan. My colleague Frank Ryan, who
came into the house with me, had drafted the initial
framework and most of the bones of this plan, and
then he retired two sessions ago now and I picked
it up. I asked, you know, hey, would he work
with me on it and pick it up? And so
(00:51):
I carried it in the house. Last session was just
trying to get all the words together, and then this
session is just educating my colleague Wendy think and how
has the sister bill to this so it would eliminate
school property taxes.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So I'm sorry, go ahead, okay, but it's a shift
right because it's about fifteen oy, it's about seventeen point
five billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That's the local property tax share collected currently, So we're
trying to replace that revenue. So we shift, we eliminate
the school property tax, the big one that comes in
the fall, and it shifts to an increased income tax
and sales tax.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So let's talk about that first and foremost. We're talking
about school property tax. Does it affect the taxes that
you get from other government agencies?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, So the county tax, that's the other property tax,
bigger one that you get that's in the spring. That's
the small one. Though it does not because you can't
do them both in the same bill Constitutionally, you'd have
to pay a constitutional action to change the actual county
tax property tax. So right now, it's just a school
(02:06):
property tax.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay. So, by the way, I was going to say,
Frank Ryan is a good friend and a good friend
of the show. We love Frank Ryan, and we know
that he's a brilliant man when it comes to the numbers.
So just to get that in there. But you talked
about income tax and sales tax going up, so outline
that forest, please.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So income tax would go up by one point eight
eight percent, So that would bring her our income tax
up to four point eight eight percent, and that income
tax would be applied to all income now, so currently
we don't apply it to any kind of retirement income
or pensions. That would expand now, so the income tax
(02:50):
the four point four point ninety five that would be
on everything. So, but on all your retirement income as well,
except for Social Security, military, and if you haven't paid
into Social Security, none of those would be taxed.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, So social Security is out. But if you're getting
money from an IRA, you're going to be taxed on it.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yes, a roth IRA, don't but an IRA yes, okay,
only only the portion you haven't So in Pennsylvania we're
different from most states. Pennsylvania, we do not tax. We
tax pensions in the on the front side of it. Okay,
we don't tax on your earnings on the backside of it.
Most states tax. You don't tax on the front side.
(03:35):
They taxed on the backside when you're actually pulling out
of it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay. So like the roth IRA, I I have a
roth IRA and I've already paid tax. So you're saying
that social Security and the roth portion of my i
RA would not be taxed, correct, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Neither would military. Uh, neither would if you haven't paid
into it. So it's some some civil service, railroad retire
these teachers I believe who retired before nineteen ninety, state police,
none of those pay into Social Security, so those tensions
would not be taxed.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Now you talked about sales tax going up.
We're currently at six percent. What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So that would go up to eight percent, and that
would be collected at the county level. At the county level,
so the revenue would be earmarked for the county level,
so that would get disseminated out back to the counties
and then they would drive it out per pupil basis.
The only thing we expand it to is clothing, gum
(04:41):
and candy.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Clothing, gum and candy. Okay. Now let me ask you
about the eight percent again though, So you're saying, if
I'm hearing you correctly, that our sales tax will go
from two to eight percent and include clothing, gum, and candy,
but that extra two percent would go to the counties,
(05:04):
and the counties would use that to take away our
county property tax. Am I hearing them?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
No? No, no, no, okay, that's just to drive it
back to those schools. So what are the issues that
we've had, Because Argie's been around for a while, we've
had property tax bills you know, come and go, right,
And one of the big sticking points for seventy six,
which was the last effort we had with this, was
that they didn't trust the state to give back the
(05:31):
local school districts their fair share. We don't get it now,
especially in our area, right, So they we want to
put in a mechanism in there to make sure the
additional dollars that are being collected are driven back out
from the areas that they were collected. Gotcha, right, to
make sure you're getting from your fair share. So that
additional one point eight eight collected at the school district level.
(05:53):
The two percent is collected at the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
County level, gotcha, So it goes back to the people
who paid the money. Correct, Okay, very good.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, just to clarify that the additional two percent
on clothing, gum and candy, it doesn't move that to
eight percent, it's just two percent. The reason we just
need it for the money to work.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Okay. So in other words, right now we're not paying
tax on clothing rather than pay eight percent, we will
pay two percent, which is the increase rather than the
whole amount. Okay, gotcha. Well, the the pushback that you're
hearing right away, I'm sure is taxing quote unquote taxing retirement.
(06:36):
That's what I've heard already. But the way you outline
it it, uh, you know, I think people think you're
going to tax everything.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
True, But the other thing is, so the retirement is
I knew, we knew would be the big you know,
retirement would be the big issue. But first of all,
we are a destination state for retirees. We just got
an independent Fiscal Office report on our aging demographics. That's
the largest growing demographic that we have is the sixty
(07:06):
five and plus and then the eighty plus. Those are growing.
Our working population are decreasing, declining, We have out migration,
and we have to do something to stop the bleed
on that. So shifting to this would make us less
desirable to retiring. Number one. Number two is, you know,
(07:28):
while people don't like that, hey, don't touch my pension.
Don't touch my pension, you're using most of them are
using their pensions to pay their property taxes.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, yeah, that's true. Well here's why we're retired. You know,
we would be retired, right, so you're paying your property
tax off of whatever it is that you're getting really correct, so.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And so right now with this bill, what we're doing
is we're just trying to get around across the state
and just educate, right to get the information out to people,
let them see how the plan works. And then most
of the town halls that we're holding on this are
just kind of a firing squad asking questions, how would
it impact? What about this? What about that? And there
is a website we have it's called no prop Dot Tax,
(08:16):
and people can go to that website. They can plug
in their numbers and see how the plan would actually
impact them. Eighty percent of Pennsylvania's will make out better
on this plan than the current situation. And there's that
twenty percent that don't. And if you don't go it
also on that calculator, it'll tell you how many years
(08:37):
it would take you to break either even given the
fact that our on average, your school property taxes go
up year over year about four percent on average.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
All right, more I have to bail on you. But
I wonder, Senator, if you would give us that website again.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, no prop dot pax.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
No prop no NOPRP dot tax correct. Okay, good website
for it, that's for sure. All right. Well, uh, Senator
Don Keefer, thank you for putting on the fight. It'll
be interesting to see how it rolls out and what
people think as you go along.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Absolutely, thank you, Arja.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You're welcome. Take care, Senator Don Keefer. Eight forty six
News Radio WHP five eighty powered from the lb smith
Ford Lincoln Studios. Hey, it's r. J. Harris. Not everybody
is comfortable.
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