July 17, 2026 • 33 mins
Jake and John dive into intriguing movements in average draft position but not before a strategy session on if we should subscribe to the "zero rb" plan for the 2026 campaign! Devon Achane, Derrick Henry, Saquon Barkley, Omarion Hampton and more tailbacks are tossed around as we get ever so closer to the teams hitting the field at month's end!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Time now for Fantasy Football Weekly from iHeartRadio, your weekly
source for the nation's best fantasy speculation and advice. What's
up and welcome back once again another offseason edition of
Fantasy Football Weekly with your host and faithful narrator, John
mcgaza and my friend and yours, mister Jake Trowbridge. Jake,
(00:24):
we're getting closer, The normies have entered the chat and
ADP's moving, which is gonna bring us to today's conversation
about running backs. But before we start, how are you
doing since I last spoke to you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, John, when you say normies, I'm assuming you mean
the non psychopaths who treat this as a standard season
long thing rather than a year long thing. But I'm
doing fantastic Because, you know, John, the air quality not
so great by me. The air quality is so bad
you think it was being coached by Hugh Jackson. So
I've been inside more often this week, but that's just
(00:59):
giving me more time to get prepped for my Scott
Fishball Live draft that's coming up this weekend. So very
excited to get my butt kicked for charity.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah sorry, honey, Sorry, guys, can't go outside. Got to
have to draft these fantasy football teams. Well, what I
was mentioning is right, as we get closer, more and
more of the public begins to jump in, ADP start
to move as more of a public opinion is formed.
One of the things that I've noticed which I want
to get to you first, Also with the meta about
(01:30):
running backs, right, we're kind of shifting in back into
i should say, a very RB heavy early approach that
used to be a big thing. Then we got away
from it as PPR became more prevalent, and now it's
all the rage again to have at least one running back,
let's say, in the first two or three rounds. So
before we kick off, would you at least subscribe to that.
(01:51):
Maybe you don't need too, but do you want to
have at least one of the dominant kind of running
backs before we're out of the third round.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
With some of the drafts and some of the mock
drafts that I've been doing this offseason with this ADP,
it's felt bad to get to round five without a
running back. It didn't seem that wave for me a
couple of years ago, felt like I can make this
zero RB thing work.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I can really wait it out. It really tests.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Your patience this year, John, So the second round is
especially going to be interesting, I will say, but if
I don't get a running back by round three, I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, we're gonna get into this great debate here of
the second round running backs, as they've all shifted up.
The entire first half of the second round is RB RB,
RB all the way up and down. We're gonna speak
about them. To your point, my fear is that next
wave of running backs that maybe we might be comfortable
(02:51):
with as our RB one entering redraft. Looking at you,
Rashad White, that'd be fine. I think he's a starter.
Looking at you, Jalen Warren, I think that's okay. I
think he's a starter. But those needs are really few
and far between. Even Tony Pollard, let's get him into
the conversation. But there's only so many of those guys.
And I feel like this momentum right the meta of
(03:12):
fantasy football kind of turns like a cruise ship. I'm
writing about this for Fantasy Life. I'm gonna do a
visualization charting all the stuff we're gonna talk about. I'm
afraid those next tier guys are gonna move up even more,
they might be less of a value, which will then
certainly push us into these second round running backs. Now
let's end the suspense the players I'm mentioned in And
(03:32):
this is why I've been kind of mad at the normies, Jake,
because I was one of the guys doing like a
gent d and ken Walker at the turn. Now genty's
up into the first round. You can't bank on him
late anymore. He's no longer a second round pick. You know,
yesterday's price is not today's price. So those running backs
are Devin A. Chain, Saquon Barkley, Omari and Hampton, Chase Brown,
(03:58):
Kenth Walker, and Derek Henry. To try and get into
all of them what you think when maybe we'll try
and rank them and put a little light on the subject,
get as much done as we can today. I've been
spending the better part of this week thinking about this debate,
because again, as my guys moving out of reach, I've
got to get to it. I don't know, I do
you have an initial take? Are there any guys that
(04:20):
really stick out to you? Maybe before we go player
by player even.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean, I think with this round, what you're gonna
have to judge for yourself is how much upside you're
desperate to get out of your first or second running
back and how much you just want to play at
sech safe Because there's a couple of names in here
that seem very very dangerous to me, but the payoff
of potential top three finishes is still there. So it's
(04:45):
it's a big old open window with those guys, and
I don't know where they're gonna fall within it. Some
of these it's just like, oh, if I grab and
we'll talk about Chase Brown. If I grab Chase Brown, like,
I just feel fine, you know, I don't feel like
a certain tingle of excitement, but I feel very comfortable
with that.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But that's not the case for every name on this list.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, we'll get to Brown in his second not to
bury the lead. It kind of dawned on me the
other day, maybe the Bengals are going to be really good,
right We've been chasing them for years. Maybe it's the
Borrow injury, Maybe it's just a little bit of fantasy fatigue.
These things happen, But Ratt Higgins used to be a
solid second round pick. He's kind of falling down. Jamar
Chase of course, is where he is, but you know,
(05:26):
Brown with the volume and attach to that offense could
be going up higher. I want to talk about Devin
Hchian first because you mentioned upside, and I think he's
the player with the most upside. Man. It's gonna come
down to what we think about the environmental shifts, moving
away from McDaniel, who's been really good at creating space,
moving towards Malik Willis, who I think there are fair
(05:49):
concerns that he might not throw to the running back.
We know that about running quarterbacks. They tend not to,
but it doesn't mean that they can't. And I think
all of these things are very much contextually driven. Devin
Chan has gotta be the best pass catcher on the team,
buy an order of magnitude. Do we really think they're
gonna feace him out? So let's talk about the Dolphins
(06:10):
and eight Chan real quick. Where do you slot him
right now? Drafters have him leading the pack, but it's
not by much and you have to pick one. No
one is falling back to that next selection. I'm really
on the fence. I was really high in him at
first going near the turn. Now I'm kind of getting
away from it. I'm really nervous because I think the
(06:31):
Vegas totals for the Dolphins are kind of low, and
if we're looking for touchdowns, that's where you get him
from the running back. What do you think about Devon? Here?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
With Devin Hchan, you're basically jumping out of an airplane
and really hoping that Bobby Slowak, the offensive coordinator, packed
that parachute right. And I don't know that I can
say that with the utmost confidence, which stinks to say,
because Devin Hchan last year he's the RB five in
points per game, he led the league in yards after contact,
(06:58):
he was great with his broken tag, you know, back
to back seasons with at least eighty five targets to
your point about his pass catching prowess, and he's playing
on an offense where, you know, a casual NFL fan
probably could not name a single skill player outside of
a hand. So it looks set up well, But how
(07:18):
bad is the offense going to be overall in Miami?
Because low scoring offenses they can be a death knel
for running backs in fantasy. I was just looking last
year John at these guys who had bottom offenses in
the league, The Raiders, had the worst scoring offense in
the league, Ashton genty. He finishes his RB sixteen in
(07:40):
points per game. I mean, that's doable, that's okay, but
it's it's not elite status.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
The Browns were second worst. Quinn Shawn Judkins was RB twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Five, Titans third worst, our guy Tony Pollard RB thirty,
the Jets are fourth worst, and Brease Hall RB.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Twenty in points per game.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
You can argue that Devin h is better or at
least more multifaceted than those other running backs, but I
just don't know that I can bank on him paying
off this early in the second round. John, So I
would prefer to drop him back a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, I think I'm with you. Because of that scoring total.
He checked every box, volume, efficiency, pass catching, It's really
everything you want. But if Willis is gonna tuck it
the few times that they're near the goal line, that
could really, you know, stunt him. But the flip side
is if he's involving garbage time catches, that could get
(08:37):
you the floor. So I think he definitely belongs in
the second round, But I don't know if I want
to take that kind of gamble, like the risk reward.
I don't know if I want that much of a floor,
But also he probably gets a bad reputation as being
like small or scatty. You mentioned the broken tackle stuff
is really good. He's actually really good between the tackles,
and but that also comes down to the McDaniel thing.
(09:00):
How much is that run game gonna hurt losing him
and McDaniel always known that, Like I mentioned before, for
creating space man, I'm afraid already. So we're not gonna
get to the answer that I wanted to. I told
y'all fair you were gonna give me the answers that
I needed. I'm starting to get worried. I don't know
if there is an answer, and it's just gonna come
down to how we balance all of that risk. So
(09:20):
I think eight Chan has got a really high upside.
I don't think the floor is zero, but it could
be really frustrating. You mentioned lack of pass catchers. Are
we gonna be drafted jail in Tobert by the time
offseason stuff is done, because right now he's listed as
the wide receiver too. Malik Washington. Maybe we've seen that
movie before. It's a little nerve racking. Right next up.
(09:42):
We'll go the other way, which is age plus volume.
It's Saquon Barkley. He's had a million touches. I just
saw he's averaging over three hundred and thirty three touches
across a four year span. Talk to us about tread
on the tires. He's also coming off and inefficient season.
Tank Bigsby, his understudy, was really efficient. I don't think
(10:05):
he's gonna displace Barkley. What do you think about Saquon?
How long are they gonna keep going back to him
if he, you know, disappoints again.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I didn't realize how high his average season touch count was.
That's that's a lot, and that does get concerning that
three hundred and fifty plus touch range for a running
back can be very dicey the following season. We kind
of saw the impact of that last year. He had
so many touches in twenty twenty four, and then last year,
like you said, his efficiency goes down. The offense just
(10:37):
sort of phased him out a little bit. And I
guess the upside with Saquon this year is that we
don't know what the new Eagles offense is going to
look like without aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It could be more of a spreadout offense.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
We could see DeVante Smith and McKay lennon and Dallas Goddard,
you know, each getting about one hundred plus targets.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I don't know that would shock me.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or they could go back and run everything through their
ground game again like they did in twenty twenty four.
That's when Saquon got you know, three hundred and seventy
something touches and led the league in yards per game.
So I hate to keep saying this job, but the
risk reward thing is still very much there with Saquon.
I don't know that I have a definitive answer, but
(11:20):
here's here's how I'll caveat this. I'll give you something
because you're so desperate for it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Desperate. The word desperation is a stinky colone, my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yes, that is true.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Now Saquon does not catch as many passes as he
did early in his career, but I think I would
still rather have Saquon Barkley where he's going in the
second than CMC in the first. It's a similar narrative
I think in terms of these high touch count older
running backs. There's no fear with Christian McCaffrey right now.
(11:51):
It doesn't seem to be anyways in the first because
you know, hey, he should still catch so many passes.
I still think the risk of an injury to CEMC
is greater than you getting duds from Saquon Barkley. So
I would rather at least wait and take him.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I think Barkley and redraft is a it's a
safe play, but I don't know if I want a
safe play in the second round. I'm kind of looking
for the ceiling outcome, and you know, getting klose to thirty,
I think he's like twenty nine and a half. He's
gonna finish the season as twenty nine, but he's getting there.
I had a couple of red flags, and I think
that's all I'm trying to dress these early decisions, because
(12:29):
it's not any of these guys are bad. They're all
great football players. We're talking about guys in the top
twenty five overall in fantasy football. They're all fantastic. My
worries for Barkley. He had the worst yards you have
to contact per attempt in the top twenty five drafted
running backs was under two and three quarters. He also
had one of the worst negative attempt rates. Now he
(12:50):
was really only behind genty in that number when we're
talking about the top backs. But Vegas gats Miller adds
Linderbomp and the new offensive schematic. We're all expecting that
to improve. Barkley's going back to kind of the same environment.
He had a zero or negative attempt rate over twenty
four percent. So nearly one of four carries from Barkley
(13:13):
was either zero or nil, and Bigsby was fantastic. I
hate to keep beating that drum. I have gone the
Bigsby route almost ten times out of ten over Barkley.
Another player here. I feel how you dressed up the
Chan thing. I'm just worried about some downside, maybe some
(13:34):
risk that people aren't addressing. And then all the injury stuff.
Man really rough here. I'm kind of o for two.
Next up Omari and Hampton. The big case has got
to be brought Mike McDaniel, the creator of space. They
return Slater, they return Old and I think they drafted alignment. Also,
everyone is expecting a major leap forward for the Chargers.
(13:54):
Where are you on, Hampton?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Jake Hampton is the wild card out of this, Out
of all these players, and again that's not a great
sign because we've already talked about h Han and Barkley
kind of being hit and miss too and risky. But
with Amari and Hampton, like I didn't see a ton
from him last year in his rookie season. That made
me think, you know, this kid's going to be a star,
as I puff on my oversized cigar, But I do
(14:19):
think it's hard a when you're rookie coming into that system,
but also having your offensive line decimated. That has to
be terrible. So you mentioned the O line as kind
of a priority in terms of getting them healthy, getting
them strong, or else everything's going to fall apart if
Joe Alton everybody else is up there and healthy for
most of the season, Hampton has a very good shot
(14:41):
at at least paying off at this ADP. I don't
know that I see a ton more than that, though.
I don't know that we're looking next year and going, oh,
he's a lock for the first round because of how
he performed this year. And I think it might be
from my perspective overrating that edition. To Mike McDaniel, I
get it. We've seen Devin h Chan and we've seen
(15:04):
Raheem Mostert in his systems in Miami thrive. But if
you're just looking at how he operates his teams, like
the Dolphins only finished in the top half of the
league in rushing attempts once during his four years, his
offense has cracked the top twelve in rushing yards once.
Which you're hoping is that everything solidifies around one guy,
(15:26):
that Hampton just gets so much of this and he's
so efficient that he pays off like a Chan and Moster.
But he's not the same kind of player. I mean,
he's You're not gonna see probably as many breakaway runs
from Omari and Hampton probably not gonna evade tackles so
much as run through guys. He has upside, Don't get
(15:46):
me wrong, But I'm just worried about how we're interpreting
the Mike McDaniel love at all. Maybe Keaton, Mitchell and
Kamani Vidal are more thorns in our side than we
want them to be. So Omari and Hampton is somebody again,
I'm okay drafting him. I just don't have the highest
of expectations.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I've been struggling also to get to Hampton. I was
so locked in on this genty walker thing, and I
just kept hoping. I guess we'd be frozen in time.
Those ADPs, those are the guys I wanted. Those are
the guys that I really really want. They check all
the boxes and I'm wheels up on them, and now
that I can't get them, I really find myself behind
the April scrambling. You mentioned the competition in LA that's
(16:28):
been my major hang up. Vidal who came in and performed,
I mean very well as a volume back. He had
twenty three or more carries in like three or five
weeks in that center spot. When Hampton was out, Hampton returns,
they split work. And then you mentioned Keaton Mitchell, who
(16:49):
is easily one of the big industry helium picks right
one of the kind of big running back sleepers. Right
now he's flying up boards. And Vidal has been forgotten
man who I think could earn work and probably did
earn some work. And now if we're at three running backs,
all you mentioned really the skill set. I think that's
(17:10):
the worry is we're not talking about the three down
bruiser that does everything. I think we're gonna see Hampton
seeding some work. And now it's down to that E
word efficiency. Hard to bank on when you're getting limited touches.
I'm afraid people are gonna be drafting Hampton in the
second round and seeing twelve to fifteen touches, which is
(17:32):
not what you want from a second round back. We're
looking for sixteen or more. Eighteen or more. It might
be there sometimes, but if all three of those guys
are active, we may see all of them getting involved. Jake,
what is going on? This is spinning out of control.
We're halfway through the six backs so far. Again, let
me shuffle some papers, maybe pull a clump of hair out.
(17:53):
Let's get to the back three in just a second.
All right, mister Jake, we're back with the second half.
This or be great debate that again. I've been really
struggling and sometimes there isn't a clear answer as I
digest this really in real time. Right, I'm not burying
that lead. I don't know the answer. I don't really
(18:15):
like any of these players. Now. I'm starting to feel
like I am definitely taking a running back in the
first round. I think this is why James Cook and
Jeny have been forced into the first round. I'm the
forcing Ken Walker into the back of the first round.
I know he's in this group, and I'm really buying
into environmental stuff. You know what, I'm skipping a little bit.
But since I mentioned him, let's go with Walker next.
(18:37):
If that's okay. He didn't have the volume, he didn't
have the efficiency, he didn't really have the pass catching.
What am I so into ken Walker for? Well, he's
moving to the Chiefs. We've seen the value of running
backs in the Andy Reid system, plus Mahomes returning from
the tour in ECL feel safe to say he's not
gonna be looking to run. We've covered this before. Mahomes
(18:59):
probably will run in a diagonal at the first down Walker,
which is exactly what we want him to do. I
don't think we're gonna be seeing him doing design runs.
I think that's gonna be ken Walker. They tried the
running backs are replaceable thing in the Kareem Hunt experiment
just didn't work. Put ken Walker where we had Kareem Hunt.
And I'm seeing the RB one that I'm looking for
(19:21):
at that first round turn. But maybe I'm overpaying a bit.
Talk to us about Kate dub three, Mister.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Jake John, I know we scared some people, probably with
those first three running backs and all the risk. I
actually think this back half is where it settles down.
These are the guys that I would rather have out
of this group, and Kenneth Walker is number one for
me out of this second round of running backs.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
The Chiefs have not had a thousand yard rusher while
Patrick Mahomes has been their starting quarterback. They've been trying
to piece together a usable backfield with duct tape and
recycled limbs since about twenty seventeen, since the Great Dip
of Kareem Hunt.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So what do they do.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
They go out and sign the Super Bowl MVP to
a forty three million dollar contract. That signals to me
the Chiefs saying, Hey, we acknowledge our running game stinks.
We don't want it to stink anymore. So here's our solution.
And I think the underrated thing along with the Kenneth
Walker signing is them bringing back Eric b Enemy as
(20:26):
their offensive coordinator.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'll shout it from the mountaintops.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
This guy can make this offense a top five scoring
offense in the league again. Now, it's gonna require a
couple of things to work out, right, Patrick Mahomes is
gonna have to look respectable coming off that injury. He
doesn't have to be his prime self right away, but
he has to get there eventually. Travis Kelce needs to
stand upright, which is a tough task for a guy
(20:50):
of his age going out there. I couldn't do it,
and then Rashid Rice has to stay on the field.
Those are all legitimate question marks. But what makes me
feel good about Walker no matter what John is that
there's two different paths to me seeing him finish sort
of as a top tier running back, And the first
path is just pure volume, because if any of those
(21:11):
things do go wrong, if Mahomes looks more banged up
than we want him to be, if Kelsey does feel
his age, if Rice doesn't stay on the field, Walker
should be a near lock for three hundred plus touches.
Like the volume should just be there no matter what.
But then there's the offensive dominant side of it, where
if everything gels right and Eric Benemy can get this
(21:32):
offense back to its sort of heyday, you know, they
never finished worse than sixth in total points or total
yards under Eric Beenemy, and he never had a running
back as good as Kenneth Walker. So I am very
bullish on Kenneth Walker. I would absolutely take him at
the start of the second round.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, me too. I'm with you one hundred percent. You
really covered all the great stuff. Also, we've seen Reid
and the enemy lean into I guess it's weird. It's
leaning into the anti too high shelf stuff. Meaning the
Chiefs have been one of the teams that welcome these
long drives, which are difficult to pull off, but you
(22:11):
have Patrick Mahomes, he can help you do it. They're
one of the few teams that average, you know, two
first downs a drives. Only you know a handful of teams.
They were over three minutes per drive time, possession and
mats to score more than forty two percent of those drives.
So they can do it with short stuff. And I
think Walker is that kind of guy. I think Walker
really compliments that, right, the Kelsey quick out, the Rashie
(22:35):
Rice quick slant, and then maybe you're stretching to feel
with worthy Walker challenging the defense. And I think the
one thing I wanted to mention is the pants catching chops,
which people really questioned, and this is something we're here
in stendarium price also this year, if a player was
never put in a position to do something, we shouldn't
say that they cannot do it because they have not
(22:58):
done it. Those are two different things, and Kenth Walker's
receiving stuff was actually pretty good all things considerative. He
was over nine yards perception and at ninety percent target
per route rate. Those are pretty solid actually not like
a stonehands kind of receiving back. And I think, I
mean he wants the rock. He's a big game player,
(23:19):
super Bowl MVP. You know you're going to KC to
try and repeat, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're
fully on board with He is the engine of that offense.
So I'm with you with ken Walker. The third, I
think if there's kind of a diamond in the rough,
he's it, and if not, it's the other one. We
mentioned Chase Brown, who's been falling, and I had to
(23:42):
take a l for love on this one. I was
part of that kind of turning my nose up to
Chase Brown and no Jake. I don't know why. It
might have been the fantasy fatigue. Maybe I felt like
he couldn't handle the workload, but it just takes a
single look at the game log to see that he
did the workload on a prolific offense. I'm immediately coming
(24:03):
around with Chase Brown and I agree with you said
about the back end of these guys. I'm seeing eighteen
for nine, you know, with six grabs at Pittsburgh, nineteen
four oh seven, with a couple grabs at New England
that was back to back. Then fifteen carries with seven
grabs at Baltimore. When the chips are down. Chase Brown
is the man in that offense. It didn't really bringing
(24:23):
anyone to compete. I gotta get back in Brown, and
I'm with you. I'm willing to shift Walker and Brown,
who are at the end of this by ADP, towards
the front of this group to get the guys that
they want because we know they're not going to fall
to us in the third. Do you have anything else
on Chase Brown.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I mean, I just want to come out in solidarity.
I've been trying to poke holes in Chase Brown since
the end of twenty twenty three when he took over
that backfield. It's been a long time coming of me
just not really getting it and expecting his workload to
get trimmed back some other random running back to come
in and kind of leap frog him, and it's just
it's not happening. And I think that's because Chase Brown
(25:01):
isn't flashy John, Like, it's not somebody that you go,
oh wow, look at this one thing that he does
incredibly well. He's just a balanced running back with a
locked in workhorse roll who gets plenty of targets. I mean,
fourteen hundred scrimmage yards last year on the back of
eighty eight targets eleven total touchdowns. I even tried to
look at the splits with and without a healthy Joe
(25:23):
Burrow last year just to see if I could unlock
something and give myself more ammunition to not draft Chase Brown,
and I got nothing. I mean, this is a mystery
box that isn't really a mystery So shame on us,
I guess John for not being invested earlier.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
You know, listen, I talk about this on my Baseball
Life shoot all the time. Changing your mind in the
face of compelling data. He's not flip flopping. It's just
cool critical thinking, and it's okay to change your mind, right.
We don't want to be wavering, but you should be
able to be convinced, and it's still early enough draft
season to capitulate. I'm in full capitulation mode. I really
(26:04):
have to admit, as a volume hand drafter, I was
running like a zero percent Chase Brown rate. In fact,
I found myself off of the Bengals almost altogether, maybe
outside of Chase. If I had the three pick and
again Higgins coming at a discount, Nah Brown middle of
the second Sometimes I'm going nah, And that offense if
(26:25):
Burrow is healthy, is like a thirty point game offense.
So I'm with you one hundred percent. It made me
feel a little bit better, kind of confirming some of
these new imaging what's in what's the opposite of a
new prior Jake? So I think we have our two
guys locked. There's one more, and I know I gotta
catching heat for this. I have not been the person
(26:46):
talking about Derrick Henry and all the miles, because yes,
he's a freak. He was the most efficient back in
the league. But the cop out for me is that
I can't have a second round running back that could
be being scripted out. And that's the problem with Henry.
He's not on the field. If they're down now, Baltimore's
(27:07):
probably gonna be in a lot of strong game scripts
and to start the season, I'm probably gonna be sorry
to be off of Derek Henry. But as good as
he is, with the age and the carries and the
lack of pass catching ability, Henry's become very easy for
me to fade. Though. I did want to mention one thing,
because you hear people mention running quarterbacks eating up gold
(27:28):
to gold stuff. It is all Henry all the time.
Lamar gets his running touchdowns from out far. He doesn't
really run it in close. He jiggles around and will
throw the ball and have Mark Andrews generally drop that ball.
But if they're running it, it's really Henry. So talk
to me about Henry. Do you think it's a little
(27:48):
misplaced for me? Again? I play a lot of PPR,
and that's what worries me.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, I think it's easy to just go has the
fountain of youth dried up?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yet?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Finally?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Is he going to turn back into a pumpkin now?
And you can do that year over year, and it's
like the Tom Brady for running backs of it just
doesn't seem to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
So I've also put the age thing behind me, but I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Glad you brought up the PPR, the catch passing aspect
of it, because you're not insulated from those risks like
if he has lost a step or he has slowed
down a little bit with age, you're not making up
for that with catches either. So not only can he
be pulled off the field, but it's just a general
worry about him. Like last year, he looked great, and
(28:33):
you mentioned the efficiency was great. Everything from a pure
rushing standpoint was classic Derrick Henry. Really he averaged nine
yards per carry. In Week fifteen against Cincinnati, he hit
one hundred yards easy, like the easiest I've seen him
do in his career. And yet, John, if you're playing
in PPR formats, you barely got double digit fantasy points
(28:54):
because he didn't score touchdown. He didn't catch a pass.
And that's what's scary about taking Derrick Henry in the
second round. The maybe light at the end of the
tunnel on this is that the Ravens brought over, yes,
a defensive head coach, but they also brought in Declan
Doyle as the OC from the Bears, and last year
with Chicago they had the fifth most rushing attempts and
(29:17):
third most rushing yards in the league. Granted, some of
that was very much due to their turnover heavy defense
that kept getting them the ball back, but Baltimore has
a good defense. Dereck Henry could still be out on
the field a ton, and he could make up for
all this with touchdowns. So I still like Henry, I
think more than Hampton. If I'm being honest, I would
(29:39):
rather take him in the second than Hampton, just because
we know the bulk of the workload is still Henry's. Yeah,
Justice Hill might come in on occasion in really bad
game scripts, but I'm okay with Henry.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, I'm gonna agree with the last point there. For sure.
There is an one thousand percent baked in worklo and
some of my fears may be a little bit misplaced
because in order for Baltimore to you know, being those scripts,
he might have done some work anyway. But man hoping,
I'm that kind of you know, repeating of scoring our
(30:15):
wonderful production crew. Shoup sixteen tds each of the last
two seasons. I was digging through the true media base
he had. It looks like almost more than double the
goal to go carries as anyone else, looks like Barkley
had fourteen. I got Henry at twenty six. I mean,
but it's all his. I mean, there is no better option,
and they're pretty much telegraphing it, which I do like. Also,
(30:38):
if there's a penalty in the end zone, they could
write on the billboard we are running Derrick Henry up
the middle. Good luck stopping this, and no one is
able to do it, so it's gonna be there for him.
But I'm a little bit worried. I think I'm with
you on the Henry over Hampton. That may be a
little bit of a hot take. If you are Henry
(30:58):
over Hampton, you're probably not drafting Hampton, and you know
I'm not. I think I have to let Hampton burn
me again. I'm worried about the three headed back there.
As much as I'm becoming bullish about the charges offense,
I've been doing it more around Herbert, I think is
the shepherd of that whole thing where we know he's
got the big arm and he even runs a little bit. Man, Jake,
(31:20):
you actually did bring a little bit of clarity before
we bounce, because we're getting to that time do you
have anything any other bow you want to put on?
You want to rank them for us? Please go ahead.
I want you to wrap this up for us.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I mean, I think if you're just looking at second
round running backs and you want to rank these guys individually,
it starts with Kenneth Walker for me, then it's Chase Brown.
Then it will be very close between Saquon Barkley and
Devin h Chan, and then we're gonna look at Derek
Henry and Omari and Hampton. But I think the bigger
context as well is who else could you get in
the second round if you opt out. If let's say
(31:54):
I'm in the second round of Kenneth Walker's gone, Chase
Brown's gone, Dang, I'm not feeling as confident now. Maybe
I do just say I'm gonna go tight end. I'm
gonna take Brock Bauers, I'm gonna take Trey McBride and
not have to worry about that position. Just feel very comfortable,
you know, because the wide receivers that are in this
round are justin Jefferson, Drake London, Nico Collins, aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
You could make the case for any of those.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Guys over Dereck Henry and Omari and Hampton, and I
think I'm listening and probably agreeing. So just because I'm
ranking these running backs a certain way doesn't mean I'm
gonna be afraid to leap over any of them to
grab one of these other positions.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent. I think I'm
drafting a Chan and I'm drafting Chase Brown, I'm drafting
Ken Walking. After that, I'm probably making the move like
you said to Collins, ajb or brock Bauers, right, I
think I could get the number one overall player at
the position. I don't want to settle in the second round. Man, Jake,
that was really awesome. Thanks for bearing with me while
I was dealing my vacation and everything. I really do
(32:53):
appreciate you, and I appreciate everyone out there for listening.
From John and Jake and Robbie, we appreciate you all.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Time now for Fantasy Football Weekly from iHeartRadio, your weekly
source for the nation's best fantasy speculation and advice. What's
up and welcome back once again another offseason edition of
Fantasy Football Weekly with your host and faithful narrator, John
mcgaza and my friend and yours, mister Jake Trowbridge. Jake,
(00:24):
we're getting closer, The normies have entered the chat and
ADP's moving, which is gonna bring us to today's conversation
about running backs. But before we start, how are you
doing since I last spoke to you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, John, when you say normies, I'm assuming you mean
the non psychopaths who treat this as a standard season
long thing rather than a year long thing. But I'm
doing fantastic Because, you know, John, the air quality not
so great by me. The air quality is so bad
you think it was being coached by Hugh Jackson. So
I've been inside more often this week, but that's just
(00:59):
giving me more time to get prepped for my Scott
Fishball Live draft that's coming up this weekend. So very
excited to get my butt kicked for charity.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah sorry, honey, Sorry, guys, can't go outside. Got to
have to draft these fantasy football teams. Well, what I
was mentioning is right, as we get closer, more and
more of the public begins to jump in, ADP start
to move as more of a public opinion is formed.
One of the things that I've noticed which I want
to get to you first, Also with the meta about
(01:30):
running backs, right, we're kind of shifting in back into
i should say, a very RB heavy early approach that
used to be a big thing. Then we got away
from it as PPR became more prevalent, and now it's
all the rage again to have at least one running back,
let's say, in the first two or three rounds. So
before we kick off, would you at least subscribe to that.
(01:51):
Maybe you don't need too, but do you want to
have at least one of the dominant kind of running
backs before we're out of the third round.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
With some of the drafts and some of the mock
drafts that I've been doing this offseason with this ADP,
it's felt bad to get to round five without a
running back. It didn't seem that wave for me a
couple of years ago, felt like I can make this
zero RB thing work.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I can really wait it out. It really tests.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Your patience this year, John, So the second round is
especially going to be interesting, I will say, but if
I don't get a running back by round three, I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, we're gonna get into this great debate here of
the second round running backs, as they've all shifted up.
The entire first half of the second round is RB RB,
RB all the way up and down. We're gonna speak
about them. To your point, my fear is that next
wave of running backs that maybe we might be comfortable
(02:51):
with as our RB one entering redraft. Looking at you,
Rashad White, that'd be fine. I think he's a starter.
Looking at you, Jalen Warren, I think that's okay. I
think he's a starter. But those needs are really few
and far between. Even Tony Pollard, let's get him into
the conversation. But there's only so many of those guys.
And I feel like this momentum right the meta of
(03:12):
fantasy football kind of turns like a cruise ship. I'm
writing about this for Fantasy Life. I'm gonna do a
visualization charting all the stuff we're gonna talk about. I'm
afraid those next tier guys are gonna move up even more,
they might be less of a value, which will then
certainly push us into these second round running backs. Now
let's end the suspense the players I'm mentioned in And
(03:32):
this is why I've been kind of mad at the normies, Jake,
because I was one of the guys doing like a
gent d and ken Walker at the turn. Now genty's
up into the first round. You can't bank on him
late anymore. He's no longer a second round pick. You know,
yesterday's price is not today's price. So those running backs
are Devin A. Chain, Saquon Barkley, Omari and Hampton, Chase Brown,
(03:58):
Kenth Walker, and Derek Henry. To try and get into
all of them what you think when maybe we'll try
and rank them and put a little light on the subject,
get as much done as we can today. I've been
spending the better part of this week thinking about this debate,
because again, as my guys moving out of reach, I've
got to get to it. I don't know, I do
you have an initial take? Are there any guys that
(04:20):
really stick out to you? Maybe before we go player
by player even.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean, I think with this round, what you're gonna
have to judge for yourself is how much upside you're
desperate to get out of your first or second running
back and how much you just want to play at
sech safe Because there's a couple of names in here
that seem very very dangerous to me, but the payoff
of potential top three finishes is still there. So it's
(04:45):
it's a big old open window with those guys, and
I don't know where they're gonna fall within it. Some
of these it's just like, oh, if I grab and
we'll talk about Chase Brown. If I grab Chase Brown, like,
I just feel fine, you know, I don't feel like
a certain tingle of excitement, but I feel very comfortable
with that.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But that's not the case for every name on this list.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, we'll get to Brown in his second not to
bury the lead. It kind of dawned on me the
other day, maybe the Bengals are going to be really good,
right We've been chasing them for years. Maybe it's the
Borrow injury, Maybe it's just a little bit of fantasy fatigue.
These things happen, But Ratt Higgins used to be a
solid second round pick. He's kind of falling down. Jamar
Chase of course, is where he is, but you know,
(05:26):
Brown with the volume and attach to that offense could
be going up higher. I want to talk about Devin
Hchian first because you mentioned upside, and I think he's
the player with the most upside. Man. It's gonna come
down to what we think about the environmental shifts, moving
away from McDaniel, who's been really good at creating space,
moving towards Malik Willis, who I think there are fair
(05:49):
concerns that he might not throw to the running back.
We know that about running quarterbacks. They tend not to,
but it doesn't mean that they can't. And I think
all of these things are very much contextually driven. Devin
Chan has gotta be the best pass catcher on the team,
buy an order of magnitude. Do we really think they're
gonna feace him out? So let's talk about the Dolphins
(06:10):
and eight Chan real quick. Where do you slot him
right now? Drafters have him leading the pack, but it's
not by much and you have to pick one. No
one is falling back to that next selection. I'm really
on the fence. I was really high in him at
first going near the turn. Now I'm kind of getting
away from it. I'm really nervous because I think the
(06:31):
Vegas totals for the Dolphins are kind of low, and
if we're looking for touchdowns, that's where you get him
from the running back. What do you think about Devon? Here?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
With Devin Hchan, you're basically jumping out of an airplane
and really hoping that Bobby Slowak, the offensive coordinator, packed
that parachute right. And I don't know that I can
say that with the utmost confidence, which stinks to say,
because Devin Hchan last year he's the RB five in
points per game, he led the league in yards after contact,
(06:58):
he was great with his broken tag, you know, back
to back seasons with at least eighty five targets to
your point about his pass catching prowess, and he's playing
on an offense where, you know, a casual NFL fan
probably could not name a single skill player outside of
a hand. So it looks set up well, But how
(07:18):
bad is the offense going to be overall in Miami?
Because low scoring offenses they can be a death knel
for running backs in fantasy. I was just looking last
year John at these guys who had bottom offenses in
the league, The Raiders, had the worst scoring offense in
the league, Ashton genty. He finishes his RB sixteen in
(07:40):
points per game. I mean, that's doable, that's okay, but
it's it's not elite status.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
The Browns were second worst. Quinn Shawn Judkins was RB twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Five, Titans third worst, our guy Tony Pollard RB thirty,
the Jets are fourth worst, and Brease Hall RB.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Twenty in points per game.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
You can argue that Devin h is better or at
least more multifaceted than those other running backs, but I
just don't know that I can bank on him paying
off this early in the second round. John, So I
would prefer to drop him back a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, I think I'm with you. Because of that scoring total.
He checked every box, volume, efficiency, pass catching, It's really
everything you want. But if Willis is gonna tuck it
the few times that they're near the goal line, that
could really, you know, stunt him. But the flip side
is if he's involving garbage time catches, that could get
(08:37):
you the floor. So I think he definitely belongs in
the second round, But I don't know if I want
to take that kind of gamble, like the risk reward.
I don't know if I want that much of a floor,
But also he probably gets a bad reputation as being
like small or scatty. You mentioned the broken tackle stuff
is really good. He's actually really good between the tackles,
and but that also comes down to the McDaniel thing.
(09:00):
How much is that run game gonna hurt losing him
and McDaniel always known that, Like I mentioned before, for
creating space man, I'm afraid already. So we're not gonna
get to the answer that I wanted to. I told
y'all fair you were gonna give me the answers that
I needed. I'm starting to get worried. I don't know
if there is an answer, and it's just gonna come
down to how we balance all of that risk. So
(09:20):
I think eight Chan has got a really high upside.
I don't think the floor is zero, but it could
be really frustrating. You mentioned lack of pass catchers. Are
we gonna be drafted jail in Tobert by the time
offseason stuff is done, because right now he's listed as
the wide receiver too. Malik Washington. Maybe we've seen that
movie before. It's a little nerve racking. Right next up.
(09:42):
We'll go the other way, which is age plus volume.
It's Saquon Barkley. He's had a million touches. I just
saw he's averaging over three hundred and thirty three touches
across a four year span. Talk to us about tread
on the tires. He's also coming off and inefficient season.
Tank Bigsby, his understudy, was really efficient. I don't think
(10:05):
he's gonna displace Barkley. What do you think about Saquon?
How long are they gonna keep going back to him
if he, you know, disappoints again.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I didn't realize how high his average season touch count was.
That's that's a lot, and that does get concerning that
three hundred and fifty plus touch range for a running
back can be very dicey the following season. We kind
of saw the impact of that last year. He had
so many touches in twenty twenty four, and then last year,
like you said, his efficiency goes down. The offense just
(10:37):
sort of phased him out a little bit. And I
guess the upside with Saquon this year is that we
don't know what the new Eagles offense is going to
look like without aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It could be more of a spreadout offense.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
We could see DeVante Smith and McKay lennon and Dallas Goddard,
you know, each getting about one hundred plus targets.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I don't know that would shock me.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or they could go back and run everything through their
ground game again like they did in twenty twenty four.
That's when Saquon got you know, three hundred and seventy
something touches and led the league in yards per game.
So I hate to keep saying this job, but the
risk reward thing is still very much there with Saquon.
I don't know that I have a definitive answer, but
(11:20):
here's here's how I'll caveat this. I'll give you something
because you're so desperate for it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Desperate. The word desperation is a stinky colone, my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yes, that is true.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Now Saquon does not catch as many passes as he
did early in his career, but I think I would
still rather have Saquon Barkley where he's going in the
second than CMC in the first. It's a similar narrative
I think in terms of these high touch count older
running backs. There's no fear with Christian McCaffrey right now.
(11:51):
It doesn't seem to be anyways in the first because
you know, hey, he should still catch so many passes.
I still think the risk of an injury to CEMC
is greater than you getting duds from Saquon Barkley. So
I would rather at least wait and take him.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I think Barkley and redraft is a it's a
safe play, but I don't know if I want a
safe play in the second round. I'm kind of looking
for the ceiling outcome, and you know, getting klose to thirty,
I think he's like twenty nine and a half. He's
gonna finish the season as twenty nine, but he's getting there.
I had a couple of red flags, and I think
that's all I'm trying to dress these early decisions, because
(12:29):
it's not any of these guys are bad. They're all
great football players. We're talking about guys in the top
twenty five overall in fantasy football. They're all fantastic. My
worries for Barkley. He had the worst yards you have
to contact per attempt in the top twenty five drafted
running backs was under two and three quarters. He also
had one of the worst negative attempt rates. Now he
(12:50):
was really only behind genty in that number when we're
talking about the top backs. But Vegas gats Miller adds
Linderbomp and the new offensive schematic. We're all expecting that
to improve. Barkley's going back to kind of the same environment.
He had a zero or negative attempt rate over twenty
four percent. So nearly one of four carries from Barkley
(13:13):
was either zero or nil, and Bigsby was fantastic. I
hate to keep beating that drum. I have gone the
Bigsby route almost ten times out of ten over Barkley.
Another player here. I feel how you dressed up the
Chan thing. I'm just worried about some downside, maybe some
(13:34):
risk that people aren't addressing. And then all the injury stuff.
Man really rough here. I'm kind of o for two.
Next up Omari and Hampton. The big case has got
to be brought Mike McDaniel, the creator of space. They
return Slater, they return Old and I think they drafted alignment. Also,
everyone is expecting a major leap forward for the Chargers.
(13:54):
Where are you on, Hampton?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Jake Hampton is the wild card out of this, Out
of all these players, and again that's not a great
sign because we've already talked about h Han and Barkley
kind of being hit and miss too and risky. But
with Amari and Hampton, like I didn't see a ton
from him last year in his rookie season. That made
me think, you know, this kid's going to be a star,
as I puff on my oversized cigar, But I do
(14:19):
think it's hard a when you're rookie coming into that system,
but also having your offensive line decimated. That has to
be terrible. So you mentioned the O line as kind
of a priority in terms of getting them healthy, getting
them strong, or else everything's going to fall apart if
Joe Alton everybody else is up there and healthy for
most of the season, Hampton has a very good shot
(14:41):
at at least paying off at this ADP. I don't
know that I see a ton more than that, though.
I don't know that we're looking next year and going, oh,
he's a lock for the first round because of how
he performed this year. And I think it might be
from my perspective overrating that edition. To Mike McDaniel, I
get it. We've seen Devin h Chan and we've seen
(15:04):
Raheem Mostert in his systems in Miami thrive. But if
you're just looking at how he operates his teams, like
the Dolphins only finished in the top half of the
league in rushing attempts once during his four years, his
offense has cracked the top twelve in rushing yards once.
Which you're hoping is that everything solidifies around one guy,
(15:26):
that Hampton just gets so much of this and he's
so efficient that he pays off like a Chan and Moster.
But he's not the same kind of player. I mean,
he's You're not gonna see probably as many breakaway runs
from Omari and Hampton probably not gonna evade tackles so
much as run through guys. He has upside, Don't get
(15:46):
me wrong, But I'm just worried about how we're interpreting
the Mike McDaniel love at all. Maybe Keaton, Mitchell and
Kamani Vidal are more thorns in our side than we
want them to be. So Omari and Hampton is somebody again,
I'm okay drafting him. I just don't have the highest
of expectations.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I've been struggling also to get to Hampton. I was
so locked in on this genty walker thing, and I
just kept hoping. I guess we'd be frozen in time.
Those ADPs, those are the guys I wanted. Those are
the guys that I really really want. They check all
the boxes and I'm wheels up on them, and now
that I can't get them, I really find myself behind
the April scrambling. You mentioned the competition in LA that's
(16:28):
been my major hang up. Vidal who came in and performed,
I mean very well as a volume back. He had
twenty three or more carries in like three or five
weeks in that center spot. When Hampton was out, Hampton returns,
they split work. And then you mentioned Keaton Mitchell, who
(16:49):
is easily one of the big industry helium picks right
one of the kind of big running back sleepers. Right
now he's flying up boards. And Vidal has been forgotten
man who I think could earn work and probably did
earn some work. And now if we're at three running backs,
all you mentioned really the skill set. I think that's
(17:10):
the worry is we're not talking about the three down
bruiser that does everything. I think we're gonna see Hampton
seeding some work. And now it's down to that E
word efficiency. Hard to bank on when you're getting limited touches.
I'm afraid people are gonna be drafting Hampton in the
second round and seeing twelve to fifteen touches, which is
(17:32):
not what you want from a second round back. We're
looking for sixteen or more. Eighteen or more. It might
be there sometimes, but if all three of those guys
are active, we may see all of them getting involved. Jake,
what is going on? This is spinning out of control.
We're halfway through the six backs so far. Again, let
me shuffle some papers, maybe pull a clump of hair out.
(17:53):
Let's get to the back three in just a second.
All right, mister Jake, we're back with the second half.
This or be great debate that again. I've been really
struggling and sometimes there isn't a clear answer as I
digest this really in real time. Right, I'm not burying
that lead. I don't know the answer. I don't really
(18:15):
like any of these players. Now. I'm starting to feel
like I am definitely taking a running back in the
first round. I think this is why James Cook and
Jeny have been forced into the first round. I'm the
forcing Ken Walker into the back of the first round.
I know he's in this group, and I'm really buying
into environmental stuff. You know what, I'm skipping a little bit.
But since I mentioned him, let's go with Walker next.
(18:37):
If that's okay. He didn't have the volume, he didn't
have the efficiency, he didn't really have the pass catching.
What am I so into ken Walker for? Well, he's
moving to the Chiefs. We've seen the value of running
backs in the Andy Reid system, plus Mahomes returning from
the tour in ECL feel safe to say he's not
gonna be looking to run. We've covered this before. Mahomes
(18:59):
probably will run in a diagonal at the first down Walker,
which is exactly what we want him to do. I
don't think we're gonna be seeing him doing design runs.
I think that's gonna be ken Walker. They tried the
running backs are replaceable thing in the Kareem Hunt experiment
just didn't work. Put ken Walker where we had Kareem Hunt.
And I'm seeing the RB one that I'm looking for
(19:21):
at that first round turn. But maybe I'm overpaying a bit.
Talk to us about Kate dub three, Mister.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Jake John, I know we scared some people, probably with
those first three running backs and all the risk. I
actually think this back half is where it settles down.
These are the guys that I would rather have out
of this group, and Kenneth Walker is number one for
me out of this second round of running backs.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
The Chiefs have not had a thousand yard rusher while
Patrick Mahomes has been their starting quarterback. They've been trying
to piece together a usable backfield with duct tape and
recycled limbs since about twenty seventeen, since the Great Dip
of Kareem Hunt.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So what do they do.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
They go out and sign the Super Bowl MVP to
a forty three million dollar contract. That signals to me
the Chiefs saying, Hey, we acknowledge our running game stinks.
We don't want it to stink anymore. So here's our solution.
And I think the underrated thing along with the Kenneth
Walker signing is them bringing back Eric b Enemy as
(20:26):
their offensive coordinator.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'll shout it from the mountaintops.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
This guy can make this offense a top five scoring
offense in the league again. Now, it's gonna require a
couple of things to work out, right, Patrick Mahomes is
gonna have to look respectable coming off that injury. He
doesn't have to be his prime self right away, but
he has to get there eventually. Travis Kelce needs to
stand upright, which is a tough task for a guy
(20:50):
of his age going out there. I couldn't do it,
and then Rashid Rice has to stay on the field.
Those are all legitimate question marks. But what makes me
feel good about Walker no matter what John is that
there's two different paths to me seeing him finish sort
of as a top tier running back, And the first
path is just pure volume, because if any of those
(21:11):
things do go wrong, if Mahomes looks more banged up
than we want him to be, if Kelsey does feel
his age, if Rice doesn't stay on the field, Walker
should be a near lock for three hundred plus touches.
Like the volume should just be there no matter what.
But then there's the offensive dominant side of it, where
if everything gels right and Eric Benemy can get this
(21:32):
offense back to its sort of heyday, you know, they
never finished worse than sixth in total points or total
yards under Eric Beenemy, and he never had a running
back as good as Kenneth Walker. So I am very
bullish on Kenneth Walker. I would absolutely take him at
the start of the second round.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, me too. I'm with you one hundred percent. You
really covered all the great stuff. Also, we've seen Reid
and the enemy lean into I guess it's weird. It's
leaning into the anti too high shelf stuff. Meaning the
Chiefs have been one of the teams that welcome these
long drives, which are difficult to pull off, but you
(22:11):
have Patrick Mahomes, he can help you do it. They're
one of the few teams that average, you know, two
first downs a drives. Only you know a handful of teams.
They were over three minutes per drive time, possession and
mats to score more than forty two percent of those drives.
So they can do it with short stuff. And I
think Walker is that kind of guy. I think Walker
really compliments that, right, the Kelsey quick out, the Rashie
(22:35):
Rice quick slant, and then maybe you're stretching to feel
with worthy Walker challenging the defense. And I think the
one thing I wanted to mention is the pants catching chops,
which people really questioned, and this is something we're here
in stendarium price also this year, if a player was
never put in a position to do something, we shouldn't
say that they cannot do it because they have not
(22:58):
done it. Those are two different things, and Kenth Walker's
receiving stuff was actually pretty good all things considerative. He
was over nine yards perception and at ninety percent target
per route rate. Those are pretty solid actually not like
a stonehands kind of receiving back. And I think, I
mean he wants the rock. He's a big game player,
(23:19):
super Bowl MVP. You know you're going to KC to
try and repeat, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're
fully on board with He is the engine of that offense.
So I'm with you with ken Walker. The third, I
think if there's kind of a diamond in the rough,
he's it, and if not, it's the other one. We
mentioned Chase Brown, who's been falling, and I had to
(23:42):
take a l for love on this one. I was
part of that kind of turning my nose up to
Chase Brown and no Jake. I don't know why. It
might have been the fantasy fatigue. Maybe I felt like
he couldn't handle the workload, but it just takes a
single look at the game log to see that he
did the workload on a prolific offense. I'm immediately coming
(24:03):
around with Chase Brown and I agree with you said
about the back end of these guys. I'm seeing eighteen
for nine, you know, with six grabs at Pittsburgh, nineteen
four oh seven, with a couple grabs at New England
that was back to back. Then fifteen carries with seven
grabs at Baltimore. When the chips are down. Chase Brown
is the man in that offense. It didn't really bringing
(24:23):
anyone to compete. I gotta get back in Brown, and
I'm with you. I'm willing to shift Walker and Brown,
who are at the end of this by ADP, towards
the front of this group to get the guys that
they want because we know they're not going to fall
to us in the third. Do you have anything else
on Chase Brown.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I mean, I just want to come out in solidarity.
I've been trying to poke holes in Chase Brown since
the end of twenty twenty three when he took over
that backfield. It's been a long time coming of me
just not really getting it and expecting his workload to
get trimmed back some other random running back to come
in and kind of leap frog him, and it's just
it's not happening. And I think that's because Chase Brown
(25:01):
isn't flashy John, Like, it's not somebody that you go,
oh wow, look at this one thing that he does
incredibly well. He's just a balanced running back with a
locked in workhorse roll who gets plenty of targets. I mean,
fourteen hundred scrimmage yards last year on the back of
eighty eight targets eleven total touchdowns. I even tried to
look at the splits with and without a healthy Joe
(25:23):
Burrow last year just to see if I could unlock
something and give myself more ammunition to not draft Chase Brown,
and I got nothing. I mean, this is a mystery
box that isn't really a mystery So shame on us,
I guess John for not being invested earlier.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
You know, listen, I talk about this on my Baseball
Life shoot all the time. Changing your mind in the
face of compelling data. He's not flip flopping. It's just
cool critical thinking, and it's okay to change your mind, right.
We don't want to be wavering, but you should be
able to be convinced, and it's still early enough draft
season to capitulate. I'm in full capitulation mode. I really
(26:04):
have to admit, as a volume hand drafter, I was
running like a zero percent Chase Brown rate. In fact,
I found myself off of the Bengals almost altogether, maybe
outside of Chase. If I had the three pick and
again Higgins coming at a discount, Nah Brown middle of
the second Sometimes I'm going nah, And that offense if
(26:25):
Burrow is healthy, is like a thirty point game offense.
So I'm with you one hundred percent. It made me
feel a little bit better, kind of confirming some of
these new imaging what's in what's the opposite of a
new prior Jake? So I think we have our two
guys locked. There's one more, and I know I gotta
catching heat for this. I have not been the person
(26:46):
talking about Derrick Henry and all the miles, because yes,
he's a freak. He was the most efficient back in
the league. But the cop out for me is that
I can't have a second round running back that could
be being scripted out. And that's the problem with Henry.
He's not on the field. If they're down now, Baltimore's
(27:07):
probably gonna be in a lot of strong game scripts
and to start the season, I'm probably gonna be sorry
to be off of Derek Henry. But as good as
he is, with the age and the carries and the
lack of pass catching ability, Henry's become very easy for
me to fade. Though. I did want to mention one thing,
because you hear people mention running quarterbacks eating up gold
(27:28):
to gold stuff. It is all Henry all the time.
Lamar gets his running touchdowns from out far. He doesn't
really run it in close. He jiggles around and will
throw the ball and have Mark Andrews generally drop that ball.
But if they're running it, it's really Henry. So talk
to me about Henry. Do you think it's a little
(27:48):
misplaced for me? Again? I play a lot of PPR,
and that's what worries me.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, I think it's easy to just go has the
fountain of youth dried up?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yet?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Finally?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Is he going to turn back into a pumpkin now?
And you can do that year over year, and it's
like the Tom Brady for running backs of it just
doesn't seem to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
So I've also put the age thing behind me, but I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Glad you brought up the PPR, the catch passing aspect
of it, because you're not insulated from those risks like
if he has lost a step or he has slowed
down a little bit with age, you're not making up
for that with catches either. So not only can he
be pulled off the field, but it's just a general
worry about him. Like last year, he looked great, and
(28:33):
you mentioned the efficiency was great. Everything from a pure
rushing standpoint was classic Derrick Henry. Really he averaged nine
yards per carry. In Week fifteen against Cincinnati, he hit
one hundred yards easy, like the easiest I've seen him
do in his career. And yet, John, if you're playing
in PPR formats, you barely got double digit fantasy points
(28:54):
because he didn't score touchdown. He didn't catch a pass.
And that's what's scary about taking Derrick Henry in the
second round. The maybe light at the end of the
tunnel on this is that the Ravens brought over, yes,
a defensive head coach, but they also brought in Declan
Doyle as the OC from the Bears, and last year
with Chicago they had the fifth most rushing attempts and
(29:17):
third most rushing yards in the league. Granted, some of
that was very much due to their turnover heavy defense
that kept getting them the ball back, but Baltimore has
a good defense. Dereck Henry could still be out on
the field a ton, and he could make up for
all this with touchdowns. So I still like Henry, I
think more than Hampton. If I'm being honest, I would
(29:39):
rather take him in the second than Hampton, just because
we know the bulk of the workload is still Henry's. Yeah,
Justice Hill might come in on occasion in really bad
game scripts, but I'm okay with Henry.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, I'm gonna agree with the last point there. For sure.
There is an one thousand percent baked in worklo and
some of my fears may be a little bit misplaced
because in order for Baltimore to you know, being those scripts,
he might have done some work anyway. But man hoping,
I'm that kind of you know, repeating of scoring our
(30:15):
wonderful production crew. Shoup sixteen tds each of the last
two seasons. I was digging through the true media base
he had. It looks like almost more than double the
goal to go carries as anyone else, looks like Barkley
had fourteen. I got Henry at twenty six. I mean,
but it's all his. I mean, there is no better option,
and they're pretty much telegraphing it, which I do like. Also,
(30:38):
if there's a penalty in the end zone, they could
write on the billboard we are running Derrick Henry up
the middle. Good luck stopping this, and no one is
able to do it, so it's gonna be there for him.
But I'm a little bit worried. I think I'm with
you on the Henry over Hampton. That may be a
little bit of a hot take. If you are Henry
(30:58):
over Hampton, you're probably not drafting Hampton, and you know
I'm not. I think I have to let Hampton burn
me again. I'm worried about the three headed back there.
As much as I'm becoming bullish about the charges offense,
I've been doing it more around Herbert, I think is
the shepherd of that whole thing where we know he's
got the big arm and he even runs a little bit. Man, Jake,
(31:20):
you actually did bring a little bit of clarity before
we bounce, because we're getting to that time do you
have anything any other bow you want to put on?
You want to rank them for us? Please go ahead.
I want you to wrap this up for us.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I mean, I think if you're just looking at second
round running backs and you want to rank these guys individually,
it starts with Kenneth Walker for me, then it's Chase Brown.
Then it will be very close between Saquon Barkley and
Devin h Chan, and then we're gonna look at Derek
Henry and Omari and Hampton. But I think the bigger
context as well is who else could you get in
the second round if you opt out. If let's say
(31:54):
I'm in the second round of Kenneth Walker's gone, Chase
Brown's gone, Dang, I'm not feeling as confident now. Maybe
I do just say I'm gonna go tight end. I'm
gonna take Brock Bauers, I'm gonna take Trey McBride and
not have to worry about that position. Just feel very comfortable,
you know, because the wide receivers that are in this
round are justin Jefferson, Drake London, Nico Collins, aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
You could make the case for any of those.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Guys over Dereck Henry and Omari and Hampton, and I
think I'm listening and probably agreeing. So just because I'm
ranking these running backs a certain way doesn't mean I'm
gonna be afraid to leap over any of them to
grab one of these other positions.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent. I think I'm
drafting a Chan and I'm drafting Chase Brown, I'm drafting
Ken Walking. After that, I'm probably making the move like
you said to Collins, ajb or brock Bauers, right, I
think I could get the number one overall player at
the position. I don't want to settle in the second round. Man, Jake,
that was really awesome. Thanks for bearing with me while
I was dealing my vacation and everything. I really do
(32:53):
appreciate you, and I appreciate everyone out there for listening.
From John and Jake and Robbie, we appreciate you all.
Have a wonderful weekend.
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