Entrepreneurs: Why Broadway Is the Riskiest Investment You'll Love with Ken Davenport + Others

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Is the difference between obscurity and opportunity? Just one bold
decision or one moment most people are too afraid to.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Take ramping up your business. The time is near. You've
given it hard, Now get it in gear. It's Passage
to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm Richard Gearhart and I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, and we're your hosts.
Welcome to Passage to Profit, the Road to Entrepreneurship. We're
joined by Tony Award winning Broadway producer Ken Davenport, who
has raised over one hundred million for the arts and
built one of the fastest growing theatrical companies in America.
And you'll find out what entrepreneurs can learn from the

(00:52):
business of show business.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
And we also have other amazing presenters. Dominic Forth, CEO
of Thought Leaders of America and founder of TV book.
So how hard is it to get on TV these days?
He can guarantee you national TV interviews and tell you
why a single appearance in the right place can suddenly
change how the entire world sees you. And after Dominic

(01:16):
we have Stacey Iltis and Kerrie Schroeder. They transformed Fly
Dance Fitness into one of the fastest growing fitness franchises
in the nation. And you'll find out the secret to
their success has nothing to do with fitness after all.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
And on top of all that, you'll hear about their
secrets for success.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
And later on we'll hear from our friend Alicia Morrissey,
a great jazz singer, and we've got secrets of the
entrepreneurial mind.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
But first it's time for your new business journey. You'd
like to ask our panel when you look back, what
was the one decision or moment that most changed the
trajectory of your business and what did it cost you
to make that decision. Welcome to the show, Ken, What
was the one decision that you made that changed the
trajectory of your business.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
My first show was a very tiny show called The
Awesome Eighties prom that I opened off Broadway in two
thousand and four. It was a one night of the
week show. I did everything. I sold the tickets. The
group sales.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Line was my home apartment number.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
I took the tickets, I directed the show. I wrote
the show, I.

Speaker 5 (02:22):
Was the house. I did everything.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
I always say that Broadway producers are just like any
founder of a startup. And for the first three months,
just like most startups, all we did was lose money,
just a lot, a lot of money, week after a
week after a week. But what was interesting to me
is that the audience was having an amazing time. They
were losing their mind at the show. They were going crazy.

(02:44):
I was getting a lot of people that I really
respected and to see it going.

Speaker 5 (02:47):
Do I have something here?

Speaker 4 (02:48):
And they were like, I just had the best time,
the best time, the best time, but it was not
showing up on the bottom line.

Speaker 5 (02:55):
And then I ran out of money. That's it. I
was on my therapist couch.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
I was crying my eyes out, saying, I know I
have something here, but I have no money left. And
I was working with an advertising agency at the time,
and they recommended all these thing.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
Here is what you should do, spend money here, da da,
and I.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
In a vulnerable moment, I said, I just came from
my shrink's office and I was in tears because I
have no more money left.

Speaker 5 (03:20):
I have nothing.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
And the advice I got from this executive was who
looked right me in the eye and said, then stop advertising,
don't spend any money, and just get as many people
in to see that show as possible. I went home
that day and I gave away so many tickets I

(03:41):
couldn't stop. Like I literally was just emailing everybody I know,
going to banks and going to insurance companies where I
thought my audience was. And we were a huge bachelorette
party destination. So I was going to a wedding show
just giving tickets away like crazy.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
And I think one of the problems with entrepreneurs.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
We build a product and we so don't want to
give it away because it's so valuable to us.

Speaker 5 (04:02):
I just gave the thing away.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
I filled the next few weeks of performances, and literally
the moment after that, all of a sudden we started
becoming profitable with no money on e but the word
of mouth started that way.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Awesome, damn, Nick, Welcome to the show. What was the
most transformative moment in your business that changed its trajectory?

Speaker 6 (04:26):
Well, I can certainly relate to Ken's story. When you
know you're launching a business, you're full of this optimism
and enthusiasm and I remember remember when we launched the
TV Bookers, we survey ten entrepreneurs and we said, you know,
would you do this? And four immediately said yes, yeah,
I'd love we want to be booked on TV. This
sounds great. Two said maybe, and then four said no.

(04:47):
And so we looked at each other as a business
partner and I we said, that's great. That's a forty
percent close ratio potentially increasing to sixty percent. This is
going to be awesome. And so we launched right at
the end of twenty and twenty two, and you can
guess what happens next. Those four people, they were just like, oh, no, sorry,
we're not ready yet. No, yeah, we will do it,

(05:07):
but not in the future. And so we learned very
quickly that to Ken's point, that you've just got to
be out having those conversations and really brute force in
some ways to get off the ground. And I've heard
the analogy before. I'm sure other people on today have
heard this as well. Where you know, when an airplane

(05:28):
takes off, it uses the most fuel, and when you
get to altitude and cruise control, that's where you can
take your foot off the gas. And so for me,
that was a really sort of rude awakening into the
business world because I've always had a corporate nine to five,
you know, I could take two hour lunch breaks or
even three hour lunch breaks if I needed to. And
so it was just realizing that you have to speak

(05:51):
to as many people as possible, really, because we the
people we did end up booking, had great experiences, but
not enough people hearing about us, and so how do
you do that? And so I think the power of
referrals is so strong in the power of building trust
and credibility, and then that's ultimately what then sent me

(06:12):
on this journey to become CEO Thought Leaders America because
now we build trust at scale as well.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
But that's awesome.

Speaker 6 (06:19):
Yeah, but I'd recommend to people never run themes estimate
how much hard work is needed at the beginning.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Absolutely. Stacy and Carrie, what about you, what was the
decision that transformed your business?

Speaker 7 (06:29):
Well, I'm going to take you back to twenty nineteen
when we became business partners, and six months after that
the pandemic hit and we had no business experience, really
no guidance when we took over this business. But what
we did have was some social media, and just like
Ken had said, not spending any money on advertising. When

(06:52):
we reopened our doors, we went straight on social media
and started filming our classes and people really they saw
themselves on their own phones at home because everybody was
at home at the time.

Speaker 8 (07:04):
They couldn't go anywhere else.

Speaker 7 (07:06):
But we were reopening sooner than a lot of other
states were, so people were able to see themselves in
class and they wanted this.

Speaker 8 (07:13):
So then we decided to franchise, and that was a
big leap.

Speaker 9 (07:17):
It was something when we took over that we saw
kind of like it seemed like a pipe dream at
the time, like, oh, that would be really cool if
we could franchise this one day. But the catalyst was
when we started going viral on social media, and it
really was one of those things like, you know, we
talked about it, and so we need to take this
risk or I'm not sure if we ever or like

(07:39):
when we're going to get this opportunity again, because we
were getting so many emails and messages and how can
I do this?

Speaker 8 (07:46):
Where is this?

Speaker 9 (07:47):
You know, they didn't even know, like we were just
in Sarasota, like they already figured maybe this was something
already offered all across the country.

Speaker 8 (07:54):
It was like a movie, like our our email would
ding ding ding, like that, that's crazy.

Speaker 9 (07:59):
And so it was one of those things that like, wow,
well we have no idea what we're doing with this,
and you know, we it really was just something that
we felt like we need to strike while the iron
was hot, so they say. And so we got a
referral for a franchise attorney. Even that was a whole
journey and taking that risk and then realizing that we
needed to get a different franchise attorney, you know, even

(08:21):
after spending a year with them, you know, getting our
documents in order. So really finding the right people in
our corner that if we didn't know exactly what it
was that we needed since there were some things of
course with experience that we lacked into finding those people
to have in your corner to help build that strong,
like very small but mighty team.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's great, Elizabeth. What is the one decision or moment
that was important for your business?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Well, I actually had a really negative moment. We launched
the business in April. I had a great grand opening,
and then the city and the utilities decided that they
were going to shut down our street, in the streets
around us, and do a whole bunch of really loud
work right outside the podcast studio all spring, summer, and fall,

(09:10):
and so I basically just kind of I didn't do
any marketing. How could I. One mistake I made was
I shut down the Google business page. I said we
were temporarily close, but I opened that back up. So
I focused more on speaking and teaching at that point,
and now we'll see if I can recover from that.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, well, I think you're on your way.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
One of the moments that transformed Gearhart Law was COVID,
And before COVID, everybody worked in the same office environment.
After COVID, everybody went remote, and it really changed the
flavor and the nature of the practice. It changed the
way we interacted with our clients, and it changed the
way we interacted with our team. But we learned through

(09:54):
that process and we're able to now engage attorneys to
work for us from different parts of the country where
that wouldn't have been possible before. So it was definitely
a transformational moment for us. So what if I told
you that Broadway isn't just bright lights and standing ovations,
it's high stakes entrepreneurship where millions are raised, fortunes are

(10:16):
made and lost, and producers think more like venture capitalists
than artists. We're joined with our guest Ken Davenport, the
Tony Award winning producer who's raised over one hundred million
dollars for the stage and calls Broadway investing the riskiest
investment you'll love to make. Get ready to pull back
the curtain on the real business behind the show and

(10:36):
why the next Hamilton might be closer than you think.
So why do some Broadway show succeed and others fail?

Speaker 4 (10:42):
Well, if I had the answer to that, I would
have every single Hamilton that has ever been. You know,
that's the fun part of what we do, and actually
the fun part of course any business. I mean there
is you know, I always say that entrepreneurship is like
the NASA car of business, right Like, we're in it
because we like the thrill of it.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
We don't actually know what's going to work.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
But we love getting behind something that we really feel
will change the world. I think every entrepreneur that's why
we get into this, and yes, hopefully we make some
money in the process.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
So what makes a Broadway show a hit and whatnot.
The audience.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Just like any other business, the customer decides what they
want to use.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
And what they don't want to use, and that can
change every day.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
I've developed shows that I have resonated that I do
would resonate with an audience, but frankly, by the time
the show got to Broadways several years later, the audience's
appetites had changed.

Speaker 5 (11:42):
Right, this happens. This is why we always have.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
To be thinking ahead and why I always think of
that famous Henry Ford quote. If I asked my audience
what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. I
am trying to think about what my audiences want tomorrow,
not just today. There's a lot of reasons that go
into the money balling of Broadway, but at the end
of the day, what makes a show a hit or

(12:05):
not an audience and I never know whether it's going
to work until.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
That curtain goes up on that opening night performance.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So I just find that's really fascinating and I appreciate
how it's difficult to predict what's going to work and
what's not. On the other hand, i'm everybody involved as
a professional. You have huge amounts of talent, you have
amazing writers, costume designers, set designers, amazing actors, and so
you have all of these talented people who are working

(12:36):
one hundred and ten percent in order to make it
all work out. Yet you still don't know whether it's
going to work out or it's not. And so why
is it so unpredictable?

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Well, listen, even Warren Buffett has picked some losers. I mean,
we can.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Do all the research and all have all the most
highly educated people saying yes, this is going to work.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
And then en Ron happens.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Right, Like, there are just things sometimes that we can't predict.
And then there's frankly, just some really good salespeople out
there that are selling something that they shouldn't be selling.
But look, theater specifically is one of the most collaborative
art forms there is on the planet.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
I often say it's like trying to get seventeen people
to paint the Mona Lisa.

Speaker 7 (13:22):
Right.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
You have a writer, you have a director, you have
a set designer, you have a lighting designer. You have
all these different people and they all have to be
firing on all cylinders in order to pull it off collaboratively.
That's why I'm in the business I was an only child.
I didn't have many friends. I was longing to be
around a tribe of people. That's what the theater is.
Right when I started working in the theater as a kid,

(13:45):
I was like, Oh my gosh, this is what I
want to be in this family. But everyone has to
be doing one hundred and ten percent, as you said,
and then that thing, even if it's great, has to
be great for that audience at that time. It has
to be built in an economic way. There's so many
factors that have to come into play in order to

(14:05):
pull that off.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, you have produced a huge number of very successful shows,
and I noticed that you seem to like to do comedies.
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (14:15):
I like to do shows that entertain and inspire, like,
that's that's my goal. I like stories about ordinary people
doing extraordinary things. Like it's probably no surprise if I like.
I am producing a musical based on Joy Mangano's life.
She was the subject of the movie Joy. We're doing
a musical about her life. She invented the Miracle Mob,

(14:36):
She went on QVC herself, even when everyone told her
she's crazy.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's the story of an entrepreneur.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Right, definitely going to go see that one. I love
that movie.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
Yeah, yes, well way to you see the musical? So
that's what I'm attracted to.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Entertaining and inspiring shows that make you have a great time,
and then when you leave, you're inspired, you hat a
big smile on your face, You're filled with joy, and
you want to spread that joy how whoever you can.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
But that's a successful movie usually translate into a successful
Broadway show? Or are all the elements so different that
you don't know how it's going to turn out.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
That's a very good question, because you would think, oh,
just because the show is coming from a movie, that
it's bound to be a hit because of the success factor.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Of the movie.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
But no, it's not the case. You remember Big the movie.
Do you remember Big the musical?

Speaker 5 (15:24):
No, because it was a big flat I.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Remember going, oh, my gosh, this is going to be great.
It has a little fantasy too, and it's going to
be perfect. One of the reasons why it didn't work
is because the movie was so big, and because it
was so dependent on Tom Hanks, Right, how can you
beat that performance?

Speaker 5 (15:44):
And that movie very difficult. So arguably, the more successful
the movie and certainly the more dependent the movie is
on a star.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
I believe the less likely it's going to work here.
Now I am developing a musical based on the movie
slum Dog Million, a huge awareness, right, Best Musical winner,
best song, all of that. But those actors weren't stars
at the time. The story was the star.

Speaker 5 (16:10):
Those are the ones that make it.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Billy Elliot, the musical was so good people now forget that.
It was a movie full monty great musical.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
The producers.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
It was about Broadway, so the musical itself seemed to
only make sense. So it's not all them. The Broadway
right outside my window here is littered with the flop
musicals that were based on very successful movies.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
So we saw Sting's musical Last Ship, and it closed
right away. But I thought I heard something that it's
opening again.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
They're doing it at the met as.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
A show as like a Broadway type.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Show as a musical.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
Yeah, musical slash opera, which it sort of was if
you remember it.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, Oh that's interesting, so you can revive something that
has died. I was surprised.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
I look, the one of the most successful musicals of
all time is Chicago.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
It's been running for how many years now, thirty something years.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's not the original production, right, The original production was
produced decades before it. It's a revival of a musical
and often shows again perfect example, the audience wasn't ready
for it, as they were in the nineties when the
revival came out. And if you know the story of Chicago,
it's about someone that quote unquote gets away with murder

(17:26):
for a justifiable reason and the lawyer who gets the
person out of it. The revival debuted right around the
time of the oj trial. It was something that all
of a sudden, razzle dazzle, give them the old razzle dazzle,
and maybe we can get you off. So it resonated
a certain way that it didn't resonate the twenty thirty

(17:47):
years before that.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
So one of the things that we seem to be
capturing in the show is how people and how Broadway
shows are unpredictable. So there's success and then there's failure.
How do the people in Broadway are working in Broadway
handle the failure? How do they maintain their resilience putting
their heart and soul for years into a production and

(18:10):
then having a close in a couple of weeks, and
then how do you bounce back from that when it happens.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
Gosh, it's one of the most challenging things for anyone
working in the theater because everybody is an entrepreneur.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
The actors are. They have their own business, right.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
No one tells them to get out of bed and
go to the office every day. There's no guaranteed paycheck
like all that stuff when they're trying to get a show,
and then they get a show. Oh my gosh, I
finally got a show, and I finally get health insurance
and I finally get all the things, and then oops,
it's Big.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
The musical and I'm out of a job two months later. Right,
Oh no, I'm back to it now. I got a audition.
Now I got to advertise myself now, like all.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
The things that we do as entrepreneurs, and the rejection
rate is high, right, so like you've got to build
up a very successful ego in order to be able
to get back in line. It's like entrepreneurs trying to
raise money. It's like any of the things that we
do as small and medium sized business.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
People talking about raising money. You have a book Broadway
Investing one oh one, how to make theater and yes,
even Make Money. That was published in twenty nineteen. I'm
just curious what do investors look for when they're looking
to invest in a show.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Broadway investing qualifies in an asset class that i is
alternative investing or really passion investing. You don't invest in
Broadway theater. And I will just tell this to anyone
out there who is ever thought about it. If you
don't like the theater, do not invest in the theater,
right Like, it's that simple. Investing in Broadway is like

(19:42):
investing in art, wine, thoroughbred horse racing, restaurants, etc.

Speaker 5 (19:47):
You gotta love it.

Speaker 10 (19:48):
Now.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
I'm a big believer that if you achieve a certain
level of net worth, you should be doing some of
this investing because, frankly, if you hit a piece of art,
if you hit a thoroughbread, the returns are enormous, and
you're also doing something you love at the same time,
you're involved in the process. The real reason people get
involved investing in the theater is they want to be

(20:10):
involved in the process of making theater making art. They
believe in it like I do. Look, I believe the
world is a better place if there's more theater in.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
It, period.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
So people that invest in it usually want to get
behind that. Then it's my job to say, Okay, great,
we're all in this. We're making a great show. We're
going to get it all over the world.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
The message of the authors are going to be heard.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
And at the same time, now I'm going to work
really hard for you to get your money back and
hopefully turn a profit.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Has it ever occurred where somebody is putting a lot
of money into the show and they want creative control
over what happens during the program or are they usually
hands off?

Speaker 4 (20:47):
No, listen and we give I should say this, we
give access and level of input to people depending on
their experience, knowledge, et cetera, and of course the level
of their investment. I like to say that, you know,
I'm the chairperson of the board, I'm the founder of
the startup. I'm the CEO, but I have board members.
Those board members are the people that I assemble that

(21:08):
usually raise or invest the most amount of money and
that I can seek the council of At the end
of the day, the CEO is going to make the decision, period,
But I would I love getting input from people around me,
and I allow all my investors give notes, come to
a like all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
We give them that access because I'm a big believer.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
You never know where the next great idea is going
to come from.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
You really are a theater lover. You're really into this,
and you created a best selling Broadway board game, Be
a Broadway Star. That sounds like so much fun. What
made you think of doing that? That was kind of
like an offshoot of work. Did you make money from that?

Speaker 4 (21:45):
It's yeah, you know, that's been fine over the years,
But I don't, you know, I think the best projects
that we come up with are the ones where it's
not about making money and then hopefully you make money.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
Like that's the thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
The every time I've set out and said I'm going
to make money with this, it's never worked.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
That's why I.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Believe everything that entrepreneurs should do should be based on
something you love and something you believe in. And that's
how the board game was created.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
My girlfriend at.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
The time, who's now my wife, came home from a
party with a bunch of theater people, and you're going
to hear the basic principles of all entrepreneurship in this story.
She came home and I said, what'd you do? And
she said, we played the game Apples to Apples, And
I said, what is a group of twenty somethings theater
people playing Apples to Apples?

Speaker 5 (22:34):
Why aren't they playing a Broadway game. Then I went
to Google and googled Broadway board game and there were zero.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
So I said, I'm going to fill a need. I'm
going to make a game for I know a community
of people that if they had the thing, that's what
they would do.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
So it's like, look, I looked for competitors. There were none.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
It was an empty space. I knew I had an
experience authority. I never made a board game in my
entire life. I googled next, how do I make a
board game? And I went through the steps and I
made a board game. And that was, you know, fifteen
years ago, and it's still one of the best selling
Broadway board games on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
That sounds great. We're here with Ken Davenport, the Tony
Award winning producer. We have to take a break, but
we'll be back right after this.

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Speaker 2 (25:21):
Now back to Passage to Profit once again.

Speaker 10 (25:24):
Richard and Elizabeth Geerhardt.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
And our special guest, Ken Davenport. He is an amazing
Broadway producer, but that's not all he does. We've been
talking to him about how you get a show on Broadway,
what investors look for, but now I want to talk
to him about his podcast and his marketing style. So
he has a very innovative marketing style he's been on
the front page of the New York Times twice. Really,

(25:49):
ken like, how did you do that? What is your
innovative style?

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Well, the first press agent I ever had said to
me that your goal as a producer should be to
get off the theater pages. So, in other words, speaking
more broadly, your goal as a business owner should be
to get out of the section that you are most
likely going to be featured in.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
Right, So, if you're a.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Real estate agent, you don't want to be in the
real estate section. You want to be in lifestyle. You
want to be a bit whatever it is. And I
will never forget that. And so everything I do is
try to come up with something so unique and so
different and so special that a broader audience wants to
hear about it. The two articles that you're talking about

(26:31):
that appeared on a one of the New York Times.
I crowdfunded a Broadway musical in twenty eleven, so my
revival of Godspell. We raised five million dollars as little
as one thousand dollars at a time, from over seven
hundred people. And that was when before crowdfunding was really
a thing, was pre jobs Act. All of this, right,

(26:51):
micro investors on Broadway never heard of before. In fact,
the world thought you needed one two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars to invest on.

Speaker 5 (26:59):
That was number one. Number two.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
The second one was I was doing research for a
Broadway show. I incorporated dial testing, the same testing that
movies use, or theme parks or debates.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
I put people with dials on a Broadway show and
let the like it, hate it, et cetera. Never been
done before. I have this formula.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
Actually I call it dramatic marketing. And what I do
is say, what is my show about? Right for God's Spell,
it was about bringing a community of people together. That's
what the authors told me. And then I couple that
with what hasn't been done before, and that is usually
what does it so it's organic to the story. And

(27:39):
then I add something that's never been done before. The
most famous one I did, and I've done about twenty
or thirty of these. I had a show called My
First Time. It's about exactly what you think it's about.
It was my answer to the Vagina monologues, and it
was real stories that people about people's first sexual experience,
something that almost every person on this planet has in common.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
If you think about it.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
And while I was doing the research for this show,
I discovered all sorts of statistics and interesting information that
I felt people must here to help demystify this process,
for people to understand it and realize that a lot
of people were making choices frankly, that they shouldn't make,
or in some cases, weren't making the choice themselves. So
I was saying to myself as I was creating the show,

(28:25):
you know who should see this show first? People who
have never had sex before as an educational tool.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
Yeah. So then as we were getting.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Towards the first preview, I said, well, that's what my
show is about, that's its mission. What hasn't been done before? Well,
that's what I believe in. Well, why don't I just
give away free tickets to virgins? So I announced a
free ticket for virgins policy. I probably wouldn't do this
in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
By the way, I was.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
All of this seems to take a lot of courage.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Everything we do is courage.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
One press release not only appeared off the theater pages,
but the associated press picked it up and put it
out to the entire world. It was on the homepage
of CNN on the homepage of MSNBC all the major
television networks. We had to line out the door and
we had television crews covering it, and Jay Leno, host

(29:23):
of The Tonight Show at the time, did a joke
about it in his monologue, like, these are the kind
of special, unique, weird things that get the kind of
attention that we all want.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
And yeah, it takes courage and guts, but at the
same time does it.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
The crazy thing is I've done another one hundred of
those that you've never heard of that all flapped. It's
just sort of like spitting and throwing stuff out into
the world that are unique and hoping you catch the wave.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
I do think you have to go there in the
first place, and you know, and I think it does
take a lot of courage to go there, right.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
I did you know the other one that got a
tremendous amount of attention, My production of Once on This
Island had a goat in it, and like a live
goat and live chickens. It was set on an island.
So okay, you are all like, okay, that's interesting. Except
when I did a focus group about the show, everyone
at the focus group was talking about the goat. Even
the people that had not seen the show, they had

(30:18):
heard about the goat. I did two things immediately. Every
piece of advertising we did on the show after that,
the goat.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
Was featured in it.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
There was a picture of the goat to remind people, oh,
that's the show with the goat.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
And the second thing I did.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
I still am in the doghouse about this, but we
were up for a Tony Award that year. In fact,
we won the Tony Award for that year. And I
said to my wife, I'm so sorry, but I can't
walk you down the red carpet into the Tony Awards.
And she was like, who are you taking besides your
wife to the Tony Awards. And I said, I'm walking
the goat down the red carpet of the Tony sick

(30:53):
the goat and if.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
You lost out the goat, how to handle that?

Speaker 4 (30:57):
And she is the goat, by the way, she who
is the greatest of all time?

Speaker 5 (31:02):
Because she said, of course, this is what you do.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
And if you google Ken Davenport goat, you will see
the results. And they went all those photos went all
over the place. It's what my show was about. What
the audience thought it was about again thinking about them first.
And two, what hadn't been done before is no one
had ever walked the goat down the red carpet.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
So we have time for one more question in the segment, Ken,
and I wanted to ask you, what do you want
to leave behind? Is your legacy?

Speaker 5 (31:31):
My gosh, I don't want to think about my legacy
right now. I've got too much I want to do.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
This is going to sound so simple, but I want
to leave smiles on people's faces.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
I mean, like the.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Greatest moments of my producing career are when I go
to see my shows and I actually don't I watch
what's happening on the stage. I especially go to the
last five minutes and then I turn around and look
at the audience, and I watched the smiles, the cheers,
the laughter, the tears, like all of it, and I
know I've moved an audience member.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
Along with the actors and the authors and everybody.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
We've moved an audience member in the same way I
was moved when I was sixteen years old and saw
Les Miz and said, I want to do that.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
I want to leave that.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
And I'm sure our other guest today, whether it's fitness,
whether it's booking people on telesphon, whatever it is, it's
about watching your clients and the audience achieve success. Like
what we've done makes them feel better, be better, be healthier,
chief success. And for me, it's entertained and inspired. When
I feel that they're entertained and inspired, I'm fulfilled. And

(32:37):
I just hope I leave a whole lot of people
out there goy like, oh gosh, that show made me
feel so good and now I'm going to go home
and be in a better mood and want to do
something else and hug my kids and just be a happier,
healthier person.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, thank you so much for that, and I think
you'll leave an enduring legacy in many many ways, and
we appreciate all that you're doing. How can people find
out more about you?

Speaker 12 (33:01):
Well, because of the goat incident, you could just google
my name you'll find you. But the best way if
you have any interest in the business of Broadway and
what we do at Ken Davenport b Way is my
Instagram handle, and that's the best way to keep up
with me and everything I've got going on.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Thank you. Ken.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Passage to Profit with Richard An Elizabeth Perhart.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Now it is time for AI use cases Business Owners
round table. So I'm going to ask everybody here for
one way that they're using AI in their business. Ken Davenport,
what is one way that you are using AI in
your business today?

Speaker 4 (33:35):
We don't do anything that threatens to replace art or
the artists. I use it for a tremendous amount of
research and of course trying to speed up the conversion
process for ticketing purchases and provide people with the information
they need.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Great Dominic. Fourth, what is one way that you're using
AI in your business today?

Speaker 6 (33:53):
What we've been doing behind the scenes is using AI
to analyze over four million podcast shows that performed well,
why did they perform well, and ultimately increase the likelihood
that someone not only gets booked, but what really matters
is how they resonate with the audience when they do
get booked.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
That's amazing. Yeah, and we'll come back and talk more
about all of this, but I want to go to
Stacy Iltis and Carrie Schroeder. You can each speak though.
How are you using AI in your business?

Speaker 9 (34:22):
We find that it's been really helpful, especially as we're
growing our franchise and We have twenty three franchisees at
the moment, and it's really just helped us with getting
to really elaborate and expand our resources for them, and
that's really been something that's important to us as we
grow the franchise.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Absolutely, Richard Gearhart, So yeah, I'm just going to follow
on a couple of themes that Dominic and Stacey raised
and authenticity. I think there's going to be a trend
in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven where people
are going to be hungry for real, authentic audiences, things
like like streaming and Broadway shows and live performances. When

(35:05):
I look at YouTube, there's so much AI generated content
out there, and a lot of the people that I've
been talking with have said there's going to be a
swing back away from that with a focus more on
live human connection. And so, of course AI is going
to play a role in some entertainment cinematically. I think

(35:27):
it plays a big role in movies that are made
now and will continue to do that. But I also
think people see it and they see that it's not authentic,
and there's going to be a part of them that
really wants that live authenticity. I mean, you can't replicate
a Broadway production with AI, at least not yet.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Well, I hope around the state plase. But for me,
I use it for research and I get into long
discussions with Google Gemini mostly, but I talk to the
other ones too, And right now I'm really trying to
pin it down on how it decides which content to

(36:07):
pull into an AI summary and how it decides which
content to cite. And Gearhart Law is lucky because we've
been cited. Well, I don't think it's just luck. I
think it's all the video that we do. And it
specifically answered me with one of Richard's videos that he
did on a very specific topic that was AI in
life sciences, and so I'm constantly doing research on that.

(36:30):
And I think that the more I use it and
the more Google Gemini I have the personalization with Google Gemini,
the better answers it gives me. And I keep asking
it the same questions, just phrase different ways, and it
feels like I go a little deeper each time and
it'll give me a little more information than it did
the last time. So I think one of the tricks
to using AI is not just take the first answer

(36:53):
it gives you like, rephrase your query, go a little
deeper with your query and really dig with it, and
you will get better answers. So I've gotten some answers
on that. It's really interesting because we can use the
gear heart Law data that we have to kind of
figure out what's going on with this, and we are
getting cited. People are calling Richard and saying they found

(37:14):
him on Chatchebtiana on Google Gemini. Actually the podcast this
show is a big piece of that helping us show
up in those results. I do want to throw this
one little clue out though. The other thing that's helping
us show up in those results, or that we have
reviews on our Google business page. You will not show
up as a cited source if you do not have
Google reviews on your Google Business page. But anyway, I

(37:35):
want to open this up to the floor. Does anybody
want to jump in with some observations or some other
ways they're using it.

Speaker 6 (37:41):
I was just going to say, if you're using it
in that way, setting up specific agents for tasks can
be really helpful. Here's the topic, how would you approach
this interview? And so we just go into those conversations
with producers so much more informed, or we can push
back on the clients. Well, you can have different roles
previously there, so that's helped us.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, that's a great way to use it, say take
on the role of this. I've heard people doing that too. Yeah,
and that I've used that for presentations like what are
people going to ask? And it's really useful.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (38:11):
Social Media business coach Financial I mean you can go
through the whole Alex Holmosy will not be full or
you know.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
I think the predictive value though of AI is kind
of over estimated.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
We've taken transcripts from social media content and asked it
to predict, you know, how well it's going to do,
and it's always optimistic. It is always optimistic, and so
it'll say, oh, if you say this or you put
this hook in here, then you can expect you know,
this kind of reaction, and if you do it in

(38:47):
real life, it just doesn't seem to work out, you know,
quite that way. So I imagine over time it'll get better,
but I'm not really sure it's there yet.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Coming up, we're going to find out why companies invest
and intellectual property even when their business is contracting. This
is the Passage to Profit Show with Richard, Elizabeth Gearheart
and our special guests Can Davenport. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 (41:09):
Passage to profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Quick shout out to our friends at KACT thirteen twenty
am in Odessa, Midland, Texas. Thanks for listening and if
you're new here. Passage Profit is a top ranked entrepreneurial
podcast and radio show heard in thirty eight markets. It's
a place where founders share what really works. And now
it's time for IP news. What a business slows down.

(41:36):
Most companies cut spending, but some companies do the exact opposite.
They double down on innovation and patents. And that's exactly
what we're seeing right now with Global Automated Stellantis, the
company behind brands like Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, and Fiat. According
to a Reuters report, even the company faces economic pressure

(41:56):
and softer sales in part due to the auto market,
it's innovation leadership says that they plan to keep filing
patents aggressively. Now that might sound counterintuitive. When companies tighten
their budgets, research and intellectual property are often some of
the first things to get cut.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
But Stillants is taking the opposite approach. Instead of pulling back,
they see this moment as an opportunity to strengthen their
long term competitive position. The thinking is simple. Technology cycles
don't just stop just because the economy slows down, and
if you keep innovating and keep protecting those innovations, you

(42:33):
may emerge from the downturn much stronger than your competitors
who paused investment.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
And there's also a strategic element to this timing. Economic
downturns can actually be a powerful moment to build intellectual property.
When competitors are cutting budgets and slowing research, companies that
keep investing can quietly build a very strong patent portfolio,
and when the market rebounds, those patents can give them
a major advantage. So while it may be a bit
unusual to a increase innovation efforts during a business continuation,

(43:03):
historically some of the most successful companies have done exactly that,
and there's.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
A lesson here for entrepreneurs and founders as well. When
cash flow titans, intellectual property often gets pushed to the
bottom of the priority list, but the long term value
of the company is often tied to the technology it
owns and protects. Companies that continue building and protecting their
innovations even during uncertain times can come out of the

(43:27):
downturn with stronger positioning and more valuable assets.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
So innovation creates opportunities, but patents help secure that opportunity.
The stilled strategy highlights an important point to companies that
keep investing in technology during the hardest moments are often
the ones best position to lead when the economy turns around.
And if you have an idea or an invention that
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(43:53):
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people never see.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Okay, and now we are onto our next presenter, Dominic fourth.
He helps people get on TV. How do you do that?

Speaker 6 (44:21):
Well, my story started really quite twenty years ago. I've
been in media for over twenty years here in the
States and worked for just a number of stations across
the US, so everywhere from Kansas City to Tampa Bay
to San Francisco, tuls For Oklahoma, Denver, Colorado, and feel

(44:42):
very fortunate I've worked with some exceptional media people and
went into a consulting role, where that then grew to
over forty TV stations across the US, everywhere, small markets
like Medford, Oregon in between. And so I had these
relationships and I didn't realize how valuable those relationships were
until I had a friend who was trying to get

(45:03):
booked on TV to promote a new book. And the
book was about psychedelics. In fact, the title of the
book was called Psychedelics for Everyone, And so you can
imagine you can imagine the news producers.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Even for me.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
Or especially for me.

Speaker 6 (45:20):
Yeah, and so he couldn't get books and I said, well, well,
let me explain, because this wasn't about taking you know,
magic mushrooms at music festivals. It was about like treating
clinical anxiety.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I would still like some.

Speaker 6 (45:35):
So we went to I explained I had producers who
are friends with and I said, hey, I'm trying to
get this story because it's going to really help Vester
runs especially, and they're like, oh, is that what this
is about? And so I went back and booked him
on three shows and he was like, this is amazing.
You can do this, and I was like, well, yeah,
I used to work with these people at this station
and that station and so forth, and so that was

(45:57):
the beginning of the TV bookers and you know, it's
just sort of grown from there. But the biggest thing
I realized was people didn't want to get booked on TV.
What they really wanted to do was share the story.
And so there was so much more that we could do.
And you know, work grew up near Liverpool. We're all
big storytellers. You know, you think of like packed pubs

(46:18):
in the winds, everybody's huddled around with paints, swapping stories,
kind of back to naval traditions and things like that.
And so I realized that we had to that I
had to really go on this personal journey to help
other people tell their stories. And so that's now why
we work with so many podcasts around the country, radio shows,
speaking events, you know, conferences, traditional pr as well. But

(46:42):
it all comes back to what is a great story.
That's what ultimately drives what we do, is helping people
tell the stories and ultimately transform lives by telling that story.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
So what is a great story?

Speaker 6 (46:55):
Yeah, you know, the three things that we look for
is number one, it has to be audience centric. You know,
a lot of people like talking about themselves, but really
what's in it for the audience, Because, to be honest,
audiences are quite selfish as kind. I'm sure you can testify.
The second piece, though, is to make that more effective,
it has to be emotionally engaging. So how do you

(47:16):
activate someone so they go from sitting back on the
couch to suddenly leaning in and paying attention. But the
third piece, and this is the one that's missed the
most often, and you nailed this at the top of
the show, is you have to be authentic. And so
in a world where attention is quite cheap, really, where
clicks are cheap and things like that, having credibility and

(47:39):
trust is priceless. And so that authenticity piece is so important.
It's the first thing we work with clients on is
how you come across authentically and sometimes the hardest as
well for a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Do you overcome help people overcome their fear of being
on video? Because I have a video podcast studio, Richard
and I have it. I have people that want to
start podcasts and they just hate themselves on video and
it's really hard to get over that hump of having
people be on video. And this is a non threatening atmosphere.
It's like nobody else is up here when they're recording.

(48:14):
What do you advise people for that?

Speaker 6 (48:16):
Well, well, let's take your examples, So like, what is
it you don't like about? I'll just be curious, Like,
what is it you don't like when you see yourself
on video?

Speaker 3 (48:23):
I don't look nearly as put together as like some
of the other people that I see, and I, you know,
we all notice our tiny little imperfections. Like I have
one friend who's absolutely gorgeous and she says, oh, no,
you you filmed my wrong side, and she won't do it.
I've kind of had to get over that because everything
we do is video, right, So I just live with it.

(48:45):
But I don't know how to convince other people that, hey,
you look fine on video?

Speaker 13 (48:48):
You know.

Speaker 6 (48:49):
Yeah, I often star at the root cause of the
story itself. So what's the end goal? Is this story
going to benefit you?

Speaker 10 (48:57):
Well?

Speaker 6 (48:57):
Does it benefit the audience? Because off of there's a
shift there when people realize that this is really going
to benefit so many people. How you look becomes really
secondary because the message is so important is that you
almost I don't want to say have a duty or responsibility,
but think of all the people you can help by
telling the story and the impact that you can have

(49:18):
and the transformation that you can cause the other pieces.
Everyone's rooting for you, your co hosts, the audience. Everybody
wants you to be successful. And I think that's often
a barrier for people where they feel that they're going
to get into this environment and you know, like the
old days, people are start throwing ross and vegetables and
fruit at them and things like that, and it's the opposite.

(49:39):
It's like, everybody wants you to be successful and the
information you bring, even if you don't say everything flawlessly
or you miss you have five points to talk through,
but you only get through to three. The audience is
so grateful for those three things that you did bring up.
They're not thinking, oh, two things weren't said because they
have no idea of that. So that's the shift we

(50:00):
often work with. I know it's easier said than done.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Well, no, that's it's not about you, it's about your audience.
And that's exactly the same thing Ken said too. So
that's really great advice. I'm going to use that. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (50:12):
Ken.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Maybe you have a question here in the sense that
you work with professional performers, and so what are some
of the things that they would also use to overcome
some of those fears.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
The biggest thing that I think performers do is they
relentlessly perform. They are constantly in front of people to
get better at it.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
I'm a big golfer.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
I have to hit thousands of golf balls in order
to improve my golf game just a little bit. So
for those people that are nervous about being on screen
or on anything, I think it's just about trying to
do it as much as possible. And my favorite thing
to show people that are nervous about this is I
always ask people, especially if their Internet savvy, like who's

(50:58):
the biggest like you two that you know, or like
biggest influencer that you know, and they'll mention someone. And
the one that I love to talk about because I
think she built such an amazing brand and was one
of the first is this Bethany Moto, who is one
of the first like YouTube makeup tutorial women. And what
you do is you go onto their YouTube channel and

(51:21):
scroll all the way down and all the way back
to their very first video and it's usually terrible, Like
that's the that's the fascinating thing to do, and you're
like ho. And Bethany's is fascinating to watch because she's
a teenager and she's stumbling a little bit, she's finding

(51:42):
her place. She's a new artist, she's a new like
she doesn't know what she's doing, but she started. She
served the tennis ball, she turned her camera on, said
I'm going to talk about makeup. Then go three months ahead.
She's a little better, and then three months ahead, and
then three years ahead, and then look at her now
and it's like a she got better? Why she hit
a thousand golf palls. It's the same thing.

Speaker 6 (52:04):
Yeah, to piggyback off that, I do feel that imposter
syndrome is very, very real, And I also think fear
can be a positive thing as well, because sometimes when
you have that sense of fear and that imposter syndrome,
it's really a sign of growth. It shows that you're
moving into a new realm or not realm almost, but
new new role to you know, try and explain it

(52:27):
a bit better. And so I work a lot with
clients on embracing that fear. And to Ken's point about repetition,
I think Batman to be honest. I was on a
flight recently and Batman begins. Was on on the plane
and you talk about someone who embraces his fear, But
how does Batman become, you know, ultimately who he does
in that movie. Well, it's it's all the practice and
the repetition with the monks, and there's parts in that

(52:49):
movie where he's getting knocked down, he's getting beaten with
sticks and all sorts. And yet in the end, you know,
by embracing his fear, we know how the story ends.
He then goes on and fights fear itself and turns
fear into all the people. And so those nerves and
those sort of that early fear that you feel is
a positive thing, and it's just learning to embrace that

(53:11):
because it's a very special stage, especially when you're starting
out on TV for the first time.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yeah, I want to shift gears a little bit here.
One thing I want to point out is that in
today's world in twenty twenty six, thought leadership and trust
and third party validation are hugely important for showing up
in Google search and AI searching. And this is a
way to establish that, a very good way to establish that.

(53:37):
But how do you guarantee one hundred percent placement for
people on TV, like how do you actually get them
on there?

Speaker 6 (53:44):
So there's two parts to this. So one is we
don't take clients on who aren't going to be able
to be booked. That's the first piece. We have to
shoot people very realistically. If they're controversial or political, we
don't take political clients. We try to the political sides
of things.

Speaker 5 (54:02):
So that's the first.

Speaker 6 (54:03):
The second is personal relationships. And so quite often will
a client will come to us and will say, hey,
give us seven days. I just need to feel this
out with some of our client some of our contacts
to see if this is a fit or not. And
what will happen is often we'll bring a client forward
that wants to talk about a certain topic and a
producer will say, that's a great topic. I've got two

(54:25):
teenage boys back to schools coming up. I think this
would work, But would they be willing to tweak the
messaging slightly because then we can feature them on this
and then I'll go back to the client and say
is this aligned enough? And that's how we'll get them booked.
So it's very heavy on the personal relationships, but it's also,
and this was hard for me at first because I'm
a big yes person, really shooting people straight and not

(54:48):
taking on clients who aren't a good fit and being
honest with them and saying, I'm really sorry that our
agency can't take you on. Here's some other options that
you can, you know, pursue instead.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Terms of types of TV shows, are you focused mostly
on morning shows or do you work on business shows?
Are there particular markets that you work with? Are you
looking mostly at local TV versus national TV.

Speaker 6 (55:14):
I'm a huge proponent for local TV. And it's funny
because clients come to us and they say, I want
to be on Good Morning America, I want to be
on Fox News or CNN, and they've got they've never
had TV experience before, and so I'm like, that's great,
So does everybody else. Let's be practical on this and pragmatic.
So local news is really powerful because you have a

(55:36):
very loyal audience, especially in the mornings, and especially for
healthcare professionals. A lot of shows have it mandated by
the producers that they need at least one medical segment
per each hour programming quite often, so we're able to
put on medical contributors on in you know, major major
markets like Washington, d C in New York. We work

(55:59):
with like pixel level for example. And then the goal
is and again this goes back to Ken's point about
repetition getting those thousand reps in. You have to really
practice to get to that national level unless it's a
very unusual story and people have just gone straight international.
Don't get me wrong, but for consistent thought leadership, there
are a lot of tweaks that we have to make

(56:21):
with messaging and with delivery. But yet we've placed clients
on like Bloomberg, Fox News, the CN ends of the world.
We've done that. But I would say for anyone listening
to this that wants to be on TV, do not
diminish the power of local news, because you could get
five or six appearances or even weekly contributor roles on
a local affiliate and get tons of reps. In versus

(56:44):
the person that stands back and says I'm only doing national.
It could be twelve months, it could be eighteen months,
and meanwhile, the person that's done local now has twenty
five or even fifty two appearances over that time.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Do you feel like somebody who's been on podcasts or
hosted podcasts or has a YouTube channel has an advantage
over someone who doesn't.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
When it comes to this, I definitely do, and I
would also really add how powerful podcasts are. In fact,
in some ways, podcasts are more powerful and more persuasive
because you might wait for the call to have you know,
a two and a half minute interview on let's say
a top ten regional affiliate. Now you're part of that
might be forty five seconds. Yes, it's a lot of credibility.

(57:25):
You've been called as the expert on that topic. But
when you think of the average consumer or person at
home with a podcast, you're with them for thirty to
forty five minutes, and it might be one on one.
You might be with them in the car when they're
cooking dinner, when they're at the gym or riding the bike.
So podcasts are really really powerful because you have that

(57:46):
intimate relationship building and I honestly feel that will nurture
a sale further forward a lot faster than waiting for
news hits on breaking news cycles where you might get
the call to be an expert.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
So how do you see any media changing now? You
know in the next two or three years, is television
is still going to have the credibility strength that it
has in the past, or our social channels like YouTube
and in podcasting going to be even stronger in predominate.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (58:19):
So it's interesting how AHI, especially GEO, you know, as
we mentioned earlier, how it pulls from different sources that
has really helped the power of being featured on TV
because it was kind of declining for some time. I
think just general sort of and this is just my opinion,
but now that people are seeing being featured on a

(58:39):
major news network really does help with your AI, you know,
with the lms and everything. But I do feel that
the true power of a strong message is really recognized
on YouTube. And I think if you have a strong
podcasting strategy where if you're guesting on podcasts a lot,
I would recommend for business owners to host podcasts. I

(59:02):
think it's really really powerful. It opens a lot of doors,
a lot of business relationships, and then having your own
YouTube channel because there's so much audience. I mean, that's
where the audience really is now if you want large
number of impressions. Just to give you an example, we
had a client that they had a video from the
New York Stock exchange that got posted last night at
seven pm. By this morning, we already had six thousand

(59:25):
views on it, and that's only going to compound over time. Now, Yes,
a local TV placement might have twenty to forty thousand,
maybe larger, but YouTube for compounding brand building and especially
for customer acquisition, I just don't see anything that can
really stop the growth of YouTube. I just think it's
so powerful.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Plus it's evergreen, right, and it's searchable. If you're on
a television program, you've got your time there, but it's
different if you're on YouTube and people can find you
over and over again.

Speaker 6 (59:54):
Yeah, and I don't want to diminish the power of
TV because it is extremely credible. Obviously, you've had journalists
with decades of experience who vetted you, they featured you,
but it's hard to get those clips sometimes and sometimes
it will take us seven days just to get the
digitalized version of that interview. Whereas being I guessed on
a podcast. There's so many positives to being on a
podcast because now you have this evergreen asset. It can

(01:00:17):
be edited into clips that could be twelve months of
content throughout the year. You've got all the SEO back
links and you still have the third party endorsement of
the host as well, So I think it does all
work together. But I am seeing a shift, and I'd
be curious from everyone else's experience as well. But the
shift for me is just the digital platforms, and especially

(01:00:37):
when you own the platform. If you own your own
podcasting platform, you own your own mailing list, you newsletter list.
It's just that's really where the growth is.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
I do have to say, all the research I'm doing,
and I do research on podcasting and discoverability and AI discoverability,
YouTube always comes up as one of the top things
you have to do, and you have to do YouTube
shorts and then you can send people to your longer
content and it likes both. Like YouTube is the main
discoverability engine for a lot of content for people. And

(01:01:08):
when I researched for a presentation I gave in January,
it said the one thing podcasters can do in twenty
twenty six is put their content on YouTube as a
YouTube podcast. So I tell everybody to start with YouTube
and then pull out the audio and put it as
a podcast. But I think TV is still pretty powerful,
but like you said, it's a little harder to do.

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
We've had clients who are just about to be on
air on News Nation and then suddenly there's a press
conference from the president that gets announced and they've been
on hold for forty minutes waiting to speak, and this
segment gets canceled. It never gets rebooked again, and then
they come to us like what was that about. I'm like,
we're sorry, we have no control. And so you have
to have the right type of CEO mindsets where a

(01:01:51):
lot of CEOs they used to be in the top
dog and so they call the shots. It's on their schedule,
the media and the major networks.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
I don't care.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
If you want to be featured, you have to be
ready at three point thirty pm. You'll go on at
three thirty six pm. And if there's a press conference,
you'll get bumped and they'll move on to the next
person if you're upset about it. So again, I don't
want to come across like being negative about TV. It's very,
very powerful, but there are some realities there. Whereas with
podcasting you get forty minutes with an audience sometimes even

(01:02:22):
longer YouTube, you have this content that keeps growing and
compounding over time.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Dominic fourth he helps people get on TV? How do
people find you? And I know you help people get
on TV, you help them start podcasts, you help prepare
them emotionally. It sounds like how do people find you
if they need these services?

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:02:41):
So if you have a story to tell and you'd
want to make an impact, you can find me personally
on LinkedIn, dominic fourth and you can connect with our
team at thought Leadersamerica dot com. That's thoughts Leaders America
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Passage to Profit with Richard Reynold is pure heart.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
And now we are going to go on to our
next presenters, Stacy Iltis and Carrie Schroeder with Fly Dancefitness
dot com. How they took something fun that they loved
to do and turned it into this big franchise. They're
moving all over the country, so welcome. Tell us how
you did this.

Speaker 7 (01:03:16):
Carrie and I became business partners in twenty nineteen, and
six months later COVID hit and we were faced with
a choice, I guess not really much of a choice.

Speaker 8 (01:03:26):
We had to close our doors.

Speaker 7 (01:03:27):
For like three months, but during that time, I mean
there's always an opportunity. So we saw the opportunity to
go online and start doing virtual classes to keep our
community together, just in Sarasota.

Speaker 8 (01:03:40):
This was before franchising ever was thought of.

Speaker 7 (01:03:42):
Once we reopened our studio, we started filming on TikTok,
which everybody was finally on TikTok at that point, and
the world responded and they saw how fun our classes were,
the authenticity of our classes because it's real people in
these videos. It's not professional dancers all, just regular people. Nurses, doctors, teachers, you.

Speaker 8 (01:04:03):
Name it, they're in there.

Speaker 7 (01:04:05):
And from there we saw the demand of wanting this
studio in people's hometowns. People were telling us I've been
looking for this forever. You guys are fulfilling a need
I didn't.

Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
Even know I had. I need this in my life.

Speaker 7 (01:04:18):
So we decided to start the franchising process, and during
that time we worked on a certification program to get
people to teach this class.

Speaker 8 (01:04:28):
At any local studio.

Speaker 7 (01:04:29):
While we were getting those franchise documents ready and then
we launched our franchise, we were inundated with interests immediately
after we launched it, with hundreds of applications. We went
through those, we interview everyone together, and now just a
few years later, we're at twenty three locations signed. We've
done all of this ourselves with a small but mighty

(01:04:51):
team of all women.

Speaker 8 (01:04:53):
That's in a nutshell our story.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
What is the class like, how is this different than
other fitness classes?

Speaker 8 (01:05:00):
We focus on adult group fitness.

Speaker 9 (01:05:02):
Our main format that you see majority of on our
social media.

Speaker 8 (01:05:07):
It's called Throwdown.

Speaker 9 (01:05:08):
It's our signature format, and that is a high cardio
hip hop dance fitness class.

Speaker 8 (01:05:13):
So it's sixty minutes.

Speaker 9 (01:05:15):
You know, we have up to date music in there,
like stuff you'll hear on the radio, but then also
some two thousands I maybe even a couple of nineties
hits in there as well.

Speaker 8 (01:05:26):
But we come to get a workout.

Speaker 9 (01:05:29):
But this is also so much about a community and
being able to dance together like for exercise. But in
that process we do not strive for perfection like we well,
you know, even as instructors, you know, we mess up
and we laugh at each other as we catch back
into the routine. It's all about having fun and then
realizing along the way, like wow, I just burned like

(01:05:51):
six hundred calories in that class.

Speaker 8 (01:05:53):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Are you all dancing in unison? Are you all doing
your own dance. How does it work?

Speaker 9 (01:05:58):
Yeah, so they're all choreograft routines that we come up
with in house. So we have a new routine that
gets introduced every Saturday, and then throughout the week that
routine is broken down, but then you also get in
a regular throatdown class basically about sixteen other routines that
we have put in previously. They could be maybe a
ten year old song that we're never going to get

(01:06:19):
rid of because that is that fun, and then some
newer routines as well. But there is repetition. There's about
two to four parts in every routine and they do repeat.
So even if you do come in as a brand
new client, like we're trying to balance the Oh my goodness,
this is fun, but I'm a little overwhelmed to keeping
it interesting for those clients who have been around for

(01:06:41):
over a decade with us.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
So I'd like to ask a question. Yes, so there
are other fitness clubs like this. Well, there's clubs that
have Aroobix, there's Zoomba, there's other ones. What do you
think made yours take off like it has? What made
it so special?

Speaker 7 (01:06:57):
I think there are so many workouts that people can
get through it and they get on with their day.
This is the workout that people get to do and
it's the highlight of their day. It's something that they
look forward to while they're at work or before they
go to bed. They put their kids to bed at
night and they're like, I get to go to fly
in the morning.

Speaker 8 (01:07:16):
I get to do this workout.

Speaker 7 (01:07:18):
Just like Ken's industry, it's kind of like people think
that this is just a fitness class. It's so much
more than that. We have a lot to do with
entertainment as well. We put the fun at the forefront
of our studio and at our fitness classes because people
are going to continue things that they have fun doing,
they enjoy it. We think that fitness should be enjoyable,

(01:07:41):
and we make it enjoyable. This is something that people
look forward to doing. And yes it is hard. It
is not a cake walk. Touch you know, step clap five, six, seven,
eight class. We are going full out for sixty minutes.
People are drenched in sweat, but they're leaving smiling and
happy and hugging and cheering each other on. Carrie was

(01:08:02):
the maid of honor and my wedding. Another thing that's
so great is that we have all ages in our class.
So women in their twenties all the way up until
their mid sixties seventies are in our class shaken that
thing and having an amazing time doing it. And it's
all women from our community. It is like a family,

(01:08:24):
and we're just trying to share that with as many
people as possible across the country.

Speaker 5 (01:08:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Great, So Ken, do you have a question or comment?

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
I think what I loved is that they said it's
about entertainment, about fun, and actually I think there is
a bit of entertainment in every industry out there. And
what I love about what they've done is that they've
managed to weave in performance and show womanship into what
they do, into fitness. They've created something which can be

(01:08:57):
that people do not.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
Want to do. I don't care who they are.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
The people that say they love working out, I think
they're lying. So I'm just going to say it so
to say to give people fun and something enjoyable. And
of course, the thing that all of us lacked, that
the theater is built on, and we certainly lacked coming
out of the pandemic is I think they've built a community.
Obviously proven evidence by the people that were like, I've
been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this. I've

(01:09:22):
been waiting for this. And then the real, the real
people aspect of it, which I see all over their
websites is it's just real people doing the thing, showing
up and having a good time and having a good
time with other people like them, and those communal experiences
are what we all crave and we all need.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Okay, so what is the throwdown move?

Speaker 9 (01:09:41):
We got a bunch, I mean, just as an example,
we have over two hundred active songs in our library
right now, which I know it might sound crazy that
we have that much choreography stuffed in our heads, but
a lot of muscle memory does kick in, thankfully, and
we do have to trim the list about twice a
year so it doesn't get a little bit too out

(01:10:01):
of hand with that. But you know, there are certain
moves that we do think of, like a lot of squatting. Well,
we'll slap the floor and then, like Stacy said, we
all trigger each other on even with that when someone
does something extra like adds a spin or you know,
hits the floor or whatever it is, and it's really
just about building each other up.

Speaker 8 (01:10:19):
In our studio as well.

Speaker 9 (01:10:21):
But yeah, I mean they're definitely like some maybe like
more fitnessy kind of moves that are weaved in. Another
thing that we have with our choreography that's important is
we do a lot of traveling around the room and
we found that also is really big for calorie burn,
and then also just to be able to interact with
the others in the room just adds a lot of

(01:10:42):
energy for sure. So a lot of jumping, you know, turning,
the traveling, and then like Stacy mentioned though, like this
really is for all ages. So we have those that
are in their sixties and even into their seventies that
are doing this. They might just not be jumping, or
they might not be doing the I'm definitely not.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I was just going to ask what experiences did you
have early in life that you think put you on
this path to owning a fitness studio.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
That's a good one.

Speaker 7 (01:11:12):
I was a theater kid, so I love, of course,
this was wonderful. I was a theater kid in high school,
and you're right. I think before the interview we were
talking about how if you're in theater, you're not necessarily
going to be on Broadway, but you are going to
be leading rooms, and theater taught me how to speak

(01:11:32):
in front of large audiences, how to be okay with performing,
and a lot of what we do Carrie and I
and our entire team when we are leading our fitness classes,
we feel like we are performing and we are in
charge of making that emotional connection within the room, making
people feel something. Just like on a Broadway show, you're

(01:11:53):
making the audience feel something and making them want to
come back the next day.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:11:57):
And then for me, I grew up dancing.

Speaker 9 (01:11:59):
I definitely we would not have thought as a kid
that I would be co owning a dance fitness studio
and franchising that.

Speaker 8 (01:12:05):
Like, definitely not in my wildest dreams.

Speaker 9 (01:12:08):
I actually went to school for engineering, so I'm definitely
more like math and science minded. But that does help,
you know, with having that background in some ways with
as far as with operations and running the studio. But
you know, having the passion to dance like never left
me and I grew up dancing. But then it's like,
you know, when I went to college, I stopped dancing.

(01:12:30):
You know, like that happens to so many people, and
that's what we find is such a connection because there's
so many just like us that they love something, they
did it their whole lives, and then they go off
to school and then it's not a part of their
lives at all anymore. And that's like really depressing. And
I found Fly when I was it was sixteen years
after I graduated high school. So besides, you know, going

(01:12:52):
to the clubs in the early two thousands, like I
really wasn't dancing anymore, and so it really like reignited
that love that I realize that I'd been missing, and
especially when both of us it took over, we had
young kids, and it's like finding ourselves again with this
and to be able to move our bodies and have
something for ourselves, Like it's so much besides just being

(01:13:15):
able to move your bodies, it's so good for your
mental health and all the things to like set everything aside.
You go through the barn door and can just like
let it go for the hour and just let loose.
And I think that's what is so important for so
many others to have that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
That is great. I agree one hundred percent. I love
that it's online too, because you don't have the studio
in New Jersey yet I would like to try it.
Stacy Iltus and Carrie Schroeder with Fly Dance Fitness. How
do people find you?

Speaker 7 (01:13:45):
They can go to our Instagram or Facebook at fly
Dance Fitness or visit our website fly dancefitness dot com.
People think we're a lot bigger than we actually are, Like,
you can get a hold of us. So you can
get a hold of us, and we do respond to
you all of the dms.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Okay, great, well, thank you very much, and we're going
to go to breakdown. But don't go away because we
have secrets of the entrepreneurial mind coming up. We'll be
right back.

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Speaker 5 (01:15:09):
It's Passage to Profit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Alicia Morrissey is our programming director at Passage to Profit,
and she's also a fantastic jazz vocalist. You can scroll
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Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
It is now time for Secrets of the entrepreneurial mind,
so Ken Davenport, what is a secret you can share
with our audience?

Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
A secret that I can share with your audience is that,
however hard you think it's gonna be, it's gonna be harder.
So giddy up, gear up, don't do it unless you're
ready to do it. Because every time I sit down
and say, oh, I've been through this before.

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
I got this. It's harder.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
There's another complication, there's another challenge. You never stop wanting
to continue to do bigger things and better things than
more unique things. You know, we always say that, oh,
when I just do this, then I'm going to retire
and play more golf. It's gonna be great. I'm gonna
sell my company, I'm gonna have my big hit. And
the fact is, entrepreneurs just face it, look in the

(01:16:13):
mirror and say, you're never gonna stop. You're never gonna
catch the horizon, and it's going to continue to be hard.
The challengers are gonna get different and bigger. But also
that's why we do it, because we actually love that challenge.

Speaker 5 (01:16:27):
So just giddy up.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Yep, I agree, So Tominic. Fourth, what's a secret you
can share with our audience.

Speaker 6 (01:16:34):
I'm going to share a lesson that my father taught
me many years ago. And we were just finished watching
the European Cup final and Greece had just upset Portugal
and it was not expected and they beat Portugal one
nail and were g reae the best team. Know in fact,
Portugal had all these flair players. And he turned and
looked at me with a smile on his face, and

(01:16:54):
he said, dominic organization will beat skill every time. And
I looked at him and I said, how is that possible?
Like Portugal have Ronaldo, they have all these players, and
he said, yep, skill may win in the short term,
but in the long term, organization will always peer severe.
And I found that lesson to be so true in
entrepreneurship where and even in sales as well, where you

(01:17:17):
come on the sales call and you try and be
all flashy and everything else, but then there's no follow up,
you know, And I'm sure people have been on calls
like that where this person promises the moon and there's
no follow up. And so having organized systems and processes,
even though it can be quite boring at times, will
endure and outperform entrepreneurs who maybe have more flair and skill.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
I agree, and mine kind of goes along with theories.
But let's well, do Stacy's person carry So, Stacy, what
is one secret you can share?

Speaker 7 (01:17:47):
My first one is passionate heart will set you apart
all the time. And then my second one is let
yourself be new. And that's something that we say to
our clients whether they are brand new or whether they've
been with us for ten years, they're always learning something new.
And I think with your audience, let yourself be new
at something. It's really hard for us to let ourselves
fail and to not know. So I think it's really

(01:18:08):
important to just let yourself be new at something.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Yeah, I love that. And Carrie Schroeder, what's the secret
you can share?

Speaker 9 (01:18:14):
I would just say that anything that seems like a
big leap, it's not going to feel comfortable, and it's
going to be scary, and you're going to ask yourself
a million times, like, oh my gosh, should we do this?
Are we ready? But I will say that you are
never ready. You're never going to know everything. So you
just need to have faith in yourself and take that leap,
because honestly, if you don't, you're calling, we'll keep calling you.

(01:18:37):
But at the same time, you have to just jump
and go for it or you're never going to know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
So true, so true. So Richard Gearhart, what's the secret
you can share?

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
To suck it up?

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I mean, sometimes unfair things happen, you're in difficult situations,
and it doesn't do any good to complain about it.
So you just kind of have to suck it up
and keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Well, mine is I'm Elizabeth Gerhart and mine is I'm
kind of on the same way of like the Dominik.
I was just going to say, organize every day. So
every day I have I have this book. It's a
handwritten book, and every day I go through it and
see what my meetings are for the day and organize
everything I have to do that day. And if I
have other stuff that can't fit in the day, I
put it on the note side on it. So that

(01:19:22):
helps me stay on track. It is just every single
morning getting up and organizing myself.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Well that's great. Well that's it this week. Thanks for listening.
Passage to Profit is a Gear Media Studios production at
the nationally syndicated radio show appearing on forty stations across
the US. In addition, Passage to Profit has also been
recently selected by feed Spot Podcasters Database as a top

(01:19:47):
ten entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank you to the P two
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(01:20:09):
our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this
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Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
The proceeding was a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
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