Former Acting N.Y.C. Israel Consul General Israel Nitzan on being in Egypt during Arab Spring

Former acting N. Y. C. Israel consul general Israel Nitzan on being in Egypt during the Arab Spring, and how six (6) Israeli security officers thwarted a mod of over 100 who tried to break into the Israeli Embassy in Cairo. He also reflects on twenty-two (22) years of serving Israel in Egypt, the United Nations, and at the Israeli Consulate in New York City.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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(01:07):
on YouTube. We got a greatshow for you. Tonight, former Acting
Israel Council General Israel Nitzan joins uswill reflect on his twenty two years of
working for Israel. He had twostints in Egypt. He was there during
the Irish Spring where they try tobreak into the embassy six Israeli's security fended
off over one hundred mobsters to tryto break in, and he was the

(01:29):
loan Israeli dipla to remain in Egypt. Will also served with distinction at the
United Nations and here in New York. The Council General will look at his
rich and varied career serving Israel.The Jewish people don't want to miss our
special broadcast. Mansltough to our goodfriends doctor Sauls and Shoshana Stromer on the
beautiful wedding of their son Michael TasheraBroner took place early this week. What

(01:52):
had a great simplon continued success andheld for a wonderful, wonderful family.
Where America's only Jewish radio programs aregular broadcast rater on the Internet and digital
platforms. We commence with our specialbroadcast right after the following messages. Don't
go away, stay tuned. Bestwishes for the New Year from your friends
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that will make you feel like royalty. You can also choose from a variety
of wild Goat fine wines made fromgrapes harvested and doza argentina at the foothills
of the Andes Mountain. These wineshave a luxurious taste and a rich color,
perfect for any occasion. Wild GoatMalbec is inky, purple in color

(04:09):
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The closeout costs at eight four tofive, six six, two fifty forty
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speaking with Zev. Take care.Thank you, mister Mark. You're listening
to Talk Line with Zev Brenner,America's premier Jewish broadcast on the year since

(06:17):
nineteen eighty one. And now here'syour host. Welcome back to the program,
Mom, Zev Brenner. I knowthe acting Council journal I should say
the former Acting Council General visuals willneeds on for many years. But he
has a very varied career serving Israel, but really the Jewish people, twenty
some years in working two stints inEgypt, working at the United Nations,

(06:40):
and I just mentioned at the CouncilGeneral New York where he is leaving.
So good to have you back.Thank you for joining us. Thank you
very much. What happened to meso before I get and reflecting on your
being in New York, first atthe United Nations and five years at the
Council General where you were Acting CouncilGeneral for a year and a half and
you were a Deputy Council General.But you were in Egypt two stints,
and I just learned, having spokento you, and that you had such

(07:04):
an interesting life and interesting clear anddiplomacy, that you were the lessons really
diplomat in Egypt. People don't knowthat. In September twenty eleven, they
were riots in Egypt. There wasthe Arab spring. It was dangerous to
be in their Israel closed the embassy, but they left you standing there right.
I was, yes, I wasasked to stay there as the last

(07:25):
representative. Actually we arrived on thatnight. We the government decided to evacuate
all our staff, all our personnel, actually all is released from from Egypt.
We arrived to the Cairo International Airport'sparking lot, where iver see the
phone call from the Foreign Ministry basicallyasking me to stay. The Director General

(07:47):
of the Foreign Ministry was on theline. He said, don't worry.
The marines are on the way,the US Marines. That's your from the
US Marines. That's the point becauseits one does not have marines, and
especially in Egypt. And these werethe US Marines who actually took me with
them to the American embassy where staythe few days in the American ambassador's residents

(08:11):
over there, Ambassador and Patterson,and I'm grateful for that. I should
say one thing that you know,and this is only one story, one
example. You know, as anIsraeli diplomat, if you need something,
if you have a if you're facinga problem, you usually need to make
only one phone call, the oneand the only, which is your to

(08:33):
your American colleague. And this isjust an example of the strength of the
relationship. Of course, back then, we had six people at the embassy
inside the building surrounded by mob andeventually the US administration managed to uh pressure
the Egyptian government to let the letlet our people out. So again we're

(08:58):
grateful for the US role and supportthroughout my twenty two years of career.
I can tell you that this isonly one example out of many. Now
getting back to this incident, sopeople really don't realize there was an Arab
spring, they overthrew Mubarak, Therewas a lot of tension. Was it
dangerous to be Jewish? Is reallythat moment in time? Because he said

(09:22):
there was a mob outside the embassy. Were they trying to get in?
But they're trying to break in?What was the mob like, well,
there was an incident on sign SignI actually on the border, leading to
the Muslim Brotherhood to lead riots againstagainst our embassy. And yes, the
embassy was attacked basically by a mob. They were climbing up. We were
on the top floor of a building. They were climbing up, you know,

(09:46):
from from the lobby and from otherbuildings and other apartments. Again,
we were more than lucky because ourpeople were very professional inside and managed to
pool the rioters out while staying alive. An there as a rise we're trying
to enter and the Israeli security youhad, we're throwing them at six percent,

(10:07):
six people inside the building, andthey managed to pull them out and
pull them away without causing any let'ssay, any step that would actually end
in a tragic way also for ourpeople. So they were very professional.
Eventually we managed to evacuate all ofthem alive and safe. And and so

(10:31):
how did they manage six people?The mob must have been You tell me
how many were there. I'm surewe're more than six people on the mob.
How did we were able to withstandthem? They managed to They were
trying to the mob was trying toactually climb into the get into the embassy
through from the neighboring rooftops, climbingfrom different balconies. They were trying to

(11:00):
get in from the windows and youknow, from the outside in and they
managed to do. And again,our staff, our person our security was
so professional that they managed to pullthem away without leading to any loss of
life on any side. There wereno loss of life and there on the

(11:22):
mobs of life from anyone and eventuallythey were evacuated by the by the Egyptian
special forces that went into the buildingand took them out to the airport.
How many people would you say wewere in the mob trying to get in
from the roof would you say dozens? Many, many dozens of people they
were. I think that maybe maybeeven a few hundreds. Wow, Were

(11:46):
you worried? Were you concerned foryour safety in your life at that moment
in time? It was Friday night, it was Shabbat, so we were
actually at home with the in inin the neighborhood, the neighborhood which is
a way out of the city.And I think that this is one of
the one of the rare cases wherewhere we were actually concerned, uh,

(12:11):
you know, for the life ofyou know, we we basically left the
when when we received the call tellingus to get into the car and go
to the airport. I actually tookmy wife and four kids. My Quinn's
number three and four were less thanone year old. So of course you're

(12:33):
concerned. Of course you are.So you were you were you in the
embassy at the time that we're tryingto scale in. The mob was trying
to break in. So you werehome for Sabat. We were home for
Sabbat. We had six people inside, six security officers. Of course,
you are concerned, for sure,for life turned for first of all,
for for the family and and thepeople inside, and and again we then

(13:00):
we think God for bringing them backhome safely. Were you concerned where you
were? You were in the suburbs. Did the mob know where you lived,
where other Israelis lived. Was theredanger to your physical location where you
were? I cannot say that.I don't know if there was, but
but of course the images were shownon TV, so of course there is

(13:22):
the concern that someone would We livedin one neighborhood and it's called Mahdi,
And of course the concern was alsofor the rest of the staff and the
rest of the people as well asour families. So so the answer is
yes, it's it was a veryAnd so when when when did they take
it to the airport That Friday night? They took it to the air Friday
night. That Friday night, wewent into the car and drove to the

(13:45):
airport and basically evacuated all the Israelisfrom Cairo, except you were told to
stay, so you went instead ofgoing back to Israel, you stayed put
in Egypt, but with the Americanambassador. I actually joined my wife and
the kids and the rest of ourteam. We had also we had to
take care of some some some bureaucracy, some bureaucratic problems also at the airport,

(14:09):
because, for example, some ofour team did not have passports and
we needed to push them to theairports as quickly and as aggressively as possible.
So and basically, when I saidgoodbye to my wife and kids and
the rest of our team, Iwent basically went back to the parking lot
and where I met the US Marineswho took me to the to the American

(14:35):
embassy. I'm curious how long didit take before the Israeli embassy was under
siege until the Egyptian forces were ableto evacuate the israel You said they was
trying to break in. How longdid it take before they were evacuated.
They were not very responsive and that'sthe reason we needed the American government to

(14:56):
intervene and pressure them to do theright It takes time. So over how
many hours were the six Israeli securityfending off this hostile mob? The mob
was there since the morning. Thephysical attack on the building actually was later
in the evening. They were therefor a few hours facing these rioters trying

(15:16):
to trying to get in and lynchthem and basically kill them in the in
the building. I'm curious in themovies when they have these situations where they
have an embassy under siege, theygo and they burned the documents and get
rid of the computers. Did thattake place as well, where they were
trying to get rid of some ofthe sensitive intelligence information that's there. Of

(15:39):
course, there are certain procedures thatare relevant to certain situations, and of
course these were. It was atsuch a moment. Now, why were
you left to stay in eg WhyI know you sent your family off?
You were the list Israeli standing fromthe diplomatic mission to be there. Why
was it White Israefield important that youstill stay in the ground in Egypt?

(16:00):
Well, first of all, thereis again these are not just typical diplomatic
relations. We have a peace agreementwith Egypt. We are and during that
year it was the situation, thepolitical situation in Egypt was was not stable,
so that what the concern was,We're basically abliged to keep a representation

(16:22):
on the ground both countries on theground, diplomatic representation both in Israel and
in Egypt, as part of thepeace agreements. And the concern was that
we drawing or not keeping our commitmentfor physical representation on the ground, meaning
that we're in violation of the ofthe agreement. Secondly, the concern was

(16:45):
that if when you pull back yourstaff, the concern is that you won't
be able to go back again.So the government decided to keep one representative
on the ground and any other oneand I was the one. Were you
apprehensive about staying considering the environment offamily has gone, every Israeli has gone,

(17:07):
but you're there. I have tosay two things. One, which
is the most important part, isthat I have a wonderful wife who is
very brave, and you know whenyou receive such a phone call, of
course, it's not a decision thatI take by myself. I told my
wife that this is what we Iwas asked to do, and she said,

(17:30):
of course you need to stay.So first of all, having the
support of my wife is was waswas critical and key throughout my twenty two
years and in the diplomatic service.But also it's you know, it's not
just another job, it's it's wecall we call it in Hebrews leo,

(17:52):
which is an admission, that issomething that is that you're doing it because
you believe in the goal and youserve your country and this is the right
thing to do. And second andthirdly, I should say that you know
when when you hear the sentence theMarines or the US Marines are on their
way, you feel safer. Uh, this is for sure. So,

(18:15):
but MOSA didn't operate in Egypt andthe world. They didn't have any people
to rely on. I'm sure thatbeing in the diplomat in Egypt and even
those times, wasn't there some sortof Israeli intelligence presence. The US has
a certain presence over there, andof course they came to take us at
me and the representative of representatives,let's say, of the of the American

(18:37):
Embassy in Egypt. We basically evacuatedall our staff and all our personnel,
and actually all the Israelis, asthey said, we had textile companies active
over there, and and other industries. Israeli is actually managing certain industries in
Egypt, and they were all basicallyrequested to leave with us. On this

(19:03):
specific on this airplane, we're speakingwith former Acting Council General in New York,
Joel Nitzan. He also has twentytwo years serving Israel and the Jewish
people, including two stints in Egypt. He also was at the United Nations.
The best wishes for the New Yearfrom your friends at Marvit Poultry.
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Reserve, made in the spirit ofKing Solomon. This is a rare and
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a variety of wild Goat fine winesmade from grapes harvested and mendoza argentina at
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also has aromas of honey, roastedpepper, olives, tomato, pepper,
jam and cola. This is awine that will impress your guests and delight
your palate. So this Russia Shannamake a leakaim to life and let your
spirits be lifted up with the finestkosher wines and cognacs in the world.
From Doughinna Limited, a Shanatova toyou and your family from Doughna. You're

(21:45):
listening to talk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier Jewish broadcast on the air
since nineteen eighty one. And nowhere's your host. We're speaking with former
Acting Council General in New York,is Will needsan Helo twenty two years serving
Israel and Jewish people, including twostints in Egypt. He also was at
the United Nations were there are othertimes you had to call on the Marines

(22:07):
with the Americans to save you orto protect you, or to be involved
in your security. Not with thesecurity, but but of course the support
of the American government and the Americanrepresentatives go through you know. It's give
us another example where you had acall upon the United States to be helpful.
This is well. I worked forfour years at all U and Mission

(22:30):
UH and this is where we workedvery closely with with our American friends.
It's a it's as we say,it's a hostile environment, not less.
But before I get you know,I never got the United Nations in Egypt,
where there are other times we hada call upon the Americans in Egypt.
Of course, we had a verygood relationship with the with the American
Embassy, very close relationship with theAmerican embassy, but of course not for

(22:53):
not what was like in Egypt.Though with the government you had a peace
treaty, the average person in thestreet where they from what I read,
they weren't that supportive of Egypt beingin peace with Israel. Where do you
find the average people there? Howdid they respond to the average people?
They do support the agreement, Theydo support peace. People want to live

(23:14):
peacefully, and I think that mostof them understand the importance of peace.
They have nothing against you, andI think that in many ways. There
is a museum that basically tells thestory of the young people, or according
to the Egyptian narrative. We wentthere with some friends and when we ended,

(23:38):
when we finished the tour, wewent out and there was a group
of school students and they asked uswho we are, and we speak fluently
Arabic over there, the Egyptian dialect, and we told them that we're Israelis.
And again we're talking about ten yearold kids. And they gave off

(24:00):
their hands and and said alone,said alone, you know, And this
is I think that this is theperception of the average person in because the
way the way the media portrayed isthat people were opposed to it. You
have a resurgent Muslim brotherhood in Egypt, which which after the revolution did rule
Egypt for a period of time.You had hostile elements, so it wasn't

(24:22):
safe. You know. Listen,Jews and Israelis went to visit Egypt,
but there were always there was tensionthere, at least from what I've never
been there. That's what I've read. The tension was because of the political
instability. Of course, I'm notsaying that I was. I was talking
about the average Egyptian. I'm nottalking about certain political actors that they have
other political interests, especially the Muslimbrotherhood. You know, in many ways,

(24:45):
it's and and of course you haveyou had also the eight period over
there, a long period of alQaeda and dash Isis activity over there.
It's it was a very unstable situationfollowing the outbreak of the of the Arab
Spring and the revolution of the therein Egypt. So so in many ways,

(25:11):
what I was describing is what wecall the average Egyptian who want to
leave peacefully and they want to takecare of their families. And I think
that they understand very well also theabout the advantages of the peace with Israel.
So you were in a deputy missionhead there in Egypt. Did you
have good relationship with governmental officials?And while you were there in Egypt,

(25:33):
we had good relationship with government officials. It was a little complicated, let's
say, politically, but again it'spart of diplomacy. On a personal level,
the relationship was very good. Professionally, of course, you have interests
and you have let's say broader interestswhen it comes to a complicated relationship between

(25:53):
local government and especially in Arab countryuh and and and its relationship with this
rule. But all in all ofthe relationship was good. We had a
good dialogue. I'm not saying itwas it was perfect. I'm not saying
that everything went well, but I'msaying that all in all it was it
was a very good dial So thatprepared you for your next field of battle,

(26:17):
I mean the next scent of duty, which is the United Nations.
And to the Council Journal of NewYork. So have you been in Egypt
and dealing diplomacy there, you arewell suited at the United Nations. What
stands out from your four years atthe UN many things. What I understood
is that the UN can pose achallenge to the State of Israel. This

(26:37):
was also part of my responsibility workingwith the Security Council, working on peacekeeping
missions on our borders, UNIFIL andOFF and others in Lebanon and Syria,
also dealing with all aspects of theMiddle East. We managed to basically win
a vote a Palestinian voting the SecurityCouncil at the end of twenty fourteen.
They brought a resolution really at theend of the last day of twenty fourteen,

(27:03):
and we managed to through a globalcampaign, we managed to block it.
And but you also learn about theimportance of the of the institution that
can do a lot of good things, for example, fighting abola in the
outbreak of abola in Africa. Theproblem is when this organization is actually stepping

(27:26):
into the political world and taking certainpositions political positions, then this is when
things become more complicated and unhelpful tosay the least. Well, I mean,
I don't know where you stand,but I personally have been speaking of
years against UNRA United Nations Relief wellfor association, because there's no reason they

(27:48):
should be in existence there. They'rethe only only conflict in the whole world
where you still have a perpetuation ofpeople of refugees is Palestine in Arabs.
After every conflict, you want toget rid of the refugees, with the
exception of the Palestinian refugees after thewar, where just keep perpetuating those camps.
They actually fought against Israel nineteen sixtyseven day war. They've helped Hamas

(28:11):
in Egypt and they are thorn inthe side. Did you have to deal
with UNRA I had to deal withan again both on when it comes to
actually working with n providing some humanitarianrelief when needed. But all in all,
I agree with you. This isthe perfect example for a UN agency

(28:32):
that based its mandate is based ona very biased political agenda. Unfortunately,
also some of the leadership over thereis is terrorists are supporting motivated. Yes,
it's they they at least my experienceswith them is that when they choose
when you have we have cases whereHamas the big tunnels underneath ra schools in

(29:00):
Gaza, and they chose not tomention even the word Hamas when they know
exactly who's doing it. So thisis part of part of the political difficulties,
but part of the problem. Alsothey also transport weapons. Some of
the UN vehicles and animals have transportedweapons. Has been done the worst,
the work cases and the work caseswhere and again you go back also to

(29:21):
the question of textbooks and the waythat Israel Is is perceived over there.
Again it's it's an ongoing fight workingat the UN. And again the problem
is that when you choose to workon based on a political agenda, this
is when things get work they getwrong in this institution. But anyway,

(29:44):
this is it was an ongoing fightfor for several years. We're speaking with
former Acting Council General in New YorkSan He also has twenty two years serving
Israel and Jewish people, including twostints in Egypt. He also was at
the United Nations. Best Wishes forthe New Year from your friends at Marvit
Poultry. For the last sixty years, Marvit Kosher Poultry has been providing the

(30:07):
cleanest, finest and tastiest chickens,turkeys, ducks at Cornish hens for discriminating
Kosher customers. Marvit also has themost kosher supervision including the ou Mk and
is Satis as well good Yar andU Kusher from Marvit Poultry ancient tradition.
Today's taste the kawbach Shol invited tojoin them for specialislijos in the callbox tradition

(30:33):
of seeking forgiveness for a song withthe one and only Yahuda Green Hosted by
the Kabba Shol, sponsored by WorldPassover. Saturday Night Matsai Chavas Cody September
ninth at the West Side Institutional Synagogue, one twenty West seventy six, Right
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(33:12):
You're listening to talk Line with ZevBrenner, America's premier Jewish broadcast on
the year since nineteen eighty one.And now here's your host. We're seeing
with the former acting Council General ofNew York. He also has been involved
in helping Israel and diplomacy for twentytwo years, serving two stints in Egypt,
United Nations and then at the IsraeliCouncil where he is retiring from that.

(33:37):
So here you are. You're inEgypt, You're at the UM,
but nothing can prepare you for thecombat of being Council General in New York,
where you've got a navigate between allthe Jewish groups, which is more
difficult though I'm not sure, buttell us about that. So here you
are, You're the acting Council General, would be previously the Deputy Council General.
You've got to deal with all theseJewish groups and all the intrigues.

(33:57):
How did you navigate that? Wasthat tougher than dealing with the Egyptians and
the UN? No, actually,this is it was. It was you
know, for me, it wasmoving from one extreme to another, from
very challenging and hostile environments to thefriendliest place on earth for an Israeli diploma.
True, but you have to navigateall the Jewish organizations and the group.

(34:21):
So what was that like? Howyou all your diplomacy skills? I'm
sure came it to play right.That's you need. You need good diplomatic
skills. But I think that aslong as you keep abroad what I call
the white end approach, you needyou need to engage with everyone. You
need to respect everyone when you needto talk with everyone. Again, some

(34:43):
people may not agree to engage withme, this is something else, but
but to be willing to have conversations, to understand the sensitivities. We may
not agree on everything, but havingthis relationship say that this is not just
a diplomatic service in New York atthe consulate, we're part of one family.

(35:06):
Now. With family, you mayhave difficulties and you may have challenges,
and some members of the family maynot sit with you during your during
Oceanshana meal dinner. But I thinkthat all in all, it is there
is no more meaningful relationship for anIsraeli diplomat to have with local community.

(35:31):
You know, I was I'm gratefulfor the way I was welcomed here.
They welcomed, of course, thecommunity welcomed, of course, not only
me professionally, but also personally aswell as my wife and the kids.
You're part of one family, werepart of one community, and I think
that that's a reason it's so meaningful, because it's not just to work to

(35:54):
do foreign policy. This is we'retalking about the future of our people.
We're talking about maintaining and strengthening therelationships between between these two branches of our
people and peoplehood, the Jewish people, who is extremely important for me personally.
I wrote somewhere that I actually liveNew York more Jewish than ever before

(36:21):
in my sense of belonging to theJewish people here. You understand that when
you say being more Jewish, whatdoes that mean, going to synagogue,
morothen, sending the kids to aJewish school. What explain what you mean
by becoming more Jewish? Yes,but also to understand better what it means
to be Jewish, to be partof the of the Jewish people. Unfortunately,
not many is really know about theAmerican Jewish community, about the diversity

(36:49):
of the American Jewish community and theimportance of the American Jewish community. It's
people. Look at I really dislikedthe word support. This is this relationship
goes both ways. It is theIsraeli support to the American Jewish community as
well as other Jewish communities around theworld. I use the word people who

(37:09):
you understand that you're part of onepeople and one family. And we can
actually, and again both in Israeland here in the United States, we
work together to support other Jewish communities. Now you do but in Ukraine.
But let's let's be honest. There'sa lot of divisions regarding Israel. For

(37:30):
example, judicial reform. You havepassion where your people so passionate for it
or against it, and it createsa different dynamic. You have other visions
that come up, so how doyou deal with that? And also you've
represented different Israeli governments, some rights, some center left, et cetera.
So you have to change positions whenthat happens. How do you deal with

(37:51):
that? Because people who like mayhave like one position with one government may
not like your position with another governmentin power. So this is part of
being a civil and is to beto be criticized by both sides, all
side, all the time. Soat least to the last seven months.
People criticize from the left, peoplecriticize us for representing this government. From

(38:12):
the right, people criticize us fornot representing enough the government. But I
think that and again, the goalis to maintain and to keep this relationship
in this dialogue. My concern isactually not those who criticize less those who
criticize us and those but those morethose who choose to disengage and those who

(38:35):
say that we don't want anything todo with this real And this is and
again this is I think that thisis our biggest challenge. We need to
keep all of our you know,these the different parts of our family,
even those who disagree with us,in a close dialogue, in a closer
conversation. You know, part ofin most cases what you do is just

(38:58):
listen. You listen, you canactually convey the messengers back home, because
we believe that. And this isour job, this is our professionally,
this is what we need to doto reflect the opinions that we hear here
in our reporting back to back tothe government so they know what people tell
us. But here here. Butlet's put it this way. You have

(39:20):
a reform conservative group, some moreliberal groups who said judicial reform, we're
not going to support Israel like theway we have in the past, But
that does have any impact when youreport that back to Israel again, it's
first of all, I believe ithas an impact, and it's also we
leave also in a in a ina in a globalized world, so people
do not necessarily need need to conveythese best correct But when they hear it

(39:44):
from you, because you're reporting withthe leadership, people on the ground,
people on the right say more judicialreform, and left say if we are,
we're going to withhold money from Israel. It's not the first time,
but people said they're going to withholdmoney from Israel. That happens quite often
with different challenges. Who was aJewish certainly was something which was years ago
a major isia now traditional reform.So I know they know what they read

(40:07):
the same reports. When they hearit from you, it's differently did they
take into account and say, listen, we've got to do something where they
just the politics in Israel has alife of its own really independent of what
they ask for. Jews, includingin America as saying and thinking I think
that this should ask the people whoread our reports and and but I think

(40:28):
that I think that all in all, yes, people respect and people appreciate
these conversations. By the way,the conversations taking out taking place also in
Israel, you have many missions andmany delegations. People go to Israel.
People go to Israel because they careabout the situation over there. They may
not agree or criticize. But butI think that all in all, the

(40:52):
relationship is very important. I thinkthat all in all, you know,
at the end of the day,people understand it. Israel is a democrats
seeing people understand that there is avery vibrant and uh and and heated discussion
today in Israel as part of ademocratic discourse taking place in a democratic country.

(41:13):
You know, we're facing a notan easy easy test. You have
a few moments left. What motivatedyou to go into diplomacy growing up?
Did you always want to be adiplomat involved in traveling around the world and
doing some really exciting but also dangerousthings. It's actually no, I have,

(41:36):
well, not necessarily I have.I studied Middle East history and international
relations. And let's say that thefirst part of my career also the UN
was is more close to my professionalbackground of dealing with the Middle East and
our neighbors. I was born.You know, I was just watching this
this week, Gold the new movie, and you know I was I'll tell

(42:00):
you what my aid is. I'mthe generation of the War of the Young
Capable War nineteen seventy four. Yeah, and so it was part this whole
period, the war, the peacewith Egypt and all this the things that
happened after that was part of mylife, part of my childhood. And
of course I found it fascinating andinteresting, and I wanted to to work

(42:25):
in this in these fields, notnecessarily diplomacy. But you know, when
I finished my my academic studies atthe Hebrew University, there was an opening
in the Foreign Ministry for the cadetcourse, and I said, let's give
it a try. And you've stayedof twenty two years, so now you're
retiring or any plans for you torun for office maybe prime minister or cannesset

(42:47):
and this is for me, it'sa break, no no, no,
no, no politics on my agendaor new future as can that change.
And because you've you've lived at twentytwo years, it's just hard to say.
I'm just out of it completely.So that's why I'm asking if you
have any political ambitions at all,not at the moment, nothing like that.

(43:08):
What about writing a book about yourexperiences. I don't have to think
about it right now. I'm lookingfor what's next for me. Taking a
short break and we'll see what's next. One of the things in New York
that's different than Israel, of course, you have also the integration the Karadi
community into even Israeli events and dealingwith the counsel. So let's look at

(43:30):
your outbreach. Let's talk about yourrelationship with the Kardi community in New York.
Well, again, our approaches iswhy ten So so we're engaging with
all groups or all or the leadershipthat is willing to engage with us.
For some may are not, youknow, not necessarily they do not necessarily

(43:52):
want to engage with that. Soyou haven't gone to visit any of the
SAtma rabbis for example, for example. But in all I think that we
you know, it's it's just engagingwith different groups bringing Israel. And I
think that one one thing that Ilearned is actually that Israeli is part of

(44:13):
is a meaningful part of maybe ina different in different ways of each group
here in New York and for us, I think that you know, I
mean used to used to meet inin different events with diverse groups within the
from the Jewish community, and thefirst part of them are already we we

(44:37):
engage with them and again we ourgoal here is to be helpful, is
to find ways in which we canactually bring Israel to be a relevant and
a meaningful part of your Jewish life. We had just as an example,
we had during the pandemic, wehosted a We had a Halidi Minister of

(45:01):
health, so we actually invited himto join a zoom call the Hawidi leadership
here to discuss the challenges and theway that Israel perceives the the pandemic and
certain answers that we can we canfind from the Israeli experience. We did
it with the Haidi community, Wedid it with other communities as well.

(45:22):
We brought officials from the Ministry ofHealth to engage with other government officials in
throughout our five states. Here.We're responsible here for building the relationships with
fives important I wish the biggest challengeof course with young people, A lot
of young people who not religious,have no connection, a very little connection

(45:43):
with Israel, no birthright Israel.Makes an impact, but a lot more
has to be done. Unfortunately.I think that's probably one of the biggest
challenge of any Israeli Council General inNew York is dealing with young people in
the moment also have remaining We're reflectingon your twenty two years, nine years
in New York. What stands outas I tell us a story about one

(46:04):
incident that you were the most proudof. Hre found the most controversial.
I'll stick to the most proud of. I'll tell you one thing, you
know. Part of my responsibility.You know, I had an eventful twenty
two years and in the Foreign servicehere, both here and in Egypt,
I didn't many things. I thinkthat one of you know, I'll say
one thing. Part of my response. Our responsibility here in New York is

(46:29):
basically to support him, to assistfamilies of the idea of soldiers and as
well as civilians who were held inGaza. So the Golden family, Leah
and Simsa gold In, the parentsof Hada gold In, the late Hada
Goldin, who was killed during theoperation in Gaza in two fourteen, and
his body is still held by Hamashitting the relationship, supporting them during the

(46:54):
visits, connecting them. Bringing Hadda'sstory to different community is differently elected officials
is one thing that I'm very proudof and uh and and it's a very
meaningful part of my work, ourwork here because at the end of the
day, you know, you're youcan do a lot of important things,

(47:17):
but this is something that is thatis very close to my heart. And
and I'm very proud of the supportto our support as a which important,
wonderful family, unfortunately terrible tragedy.The most controversial episode that you were here
in the nine years, what wouldyou say that would be for the most
contentionous, the most contentious. Uh, you know, I'm trying to think

(47:39):
about, you know, as asa difficulent you have to deal with a
lot of uh. You need toanswer difficult questions sometimes uh so uh and
and this is what this is ouris what we we we do here.
I'm trying to think about one specificcase that but I think that all in

(48:00):
all, this is part of youknow, this is my message to our
younger diplomats. Being a diplomat isnot just niceties and to be polite,
and sometimes you need to have difficultconversations. It's also part of being a
diplomat because at the end of theday, you need to deliver. You
need to make sure that you canactually promote your your foreign policy goals,

(48:23):
and sometimes you have to do itin a in a less less friendly and
less pleasant way. You have todo it to do it as little as
you can, but it's also partof your spoken like a true diplomat.
Then answer the question. But Ilove your diplomacy and I want to thank
you for your service to the Jewishpeople. Real it's not just digital to

(48:45):
the Jewish people. You serve withgrace and style. I always enjoy talking
to you, and really you havea fascinating story. You've accomplished quite a
bit. We'll stay connected, andI know you're going to stay connected to
what you're doing, because once youdid twenty two years, just hard to
just leave it completely. But Iknow you need some time off, so
former Acting Counsel General of New York, former Council General of New York's,

(49:07):
you'll needsn I thank you for joiningus, continued success and all your endeavors.
May God help you and your familyand look forward to having you back.
Thank you, thank you very muchfor a friendship and for having it
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(55:29):
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(55:50):
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(56:15):
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